Brazzil

As an American who travels monthly to Sao Paulo, I would say there is nowhere within the city of Sao Paulo that would be an "attractive" place to live, traffic, smog, crime and the difficulty assicoated with this caotic huge city, would make it impossible to enjoy except for short periods. If I was forced to make a choice then I would choose one of the better neighborhoods of Campinas, a large Sao Paulo suburb.

My trip to Sao paulo was spent mostly barricaded in my friends compound . While the streets have speed bumps every few feet it seems! that alcool for fuel and lack of catalytic converters on the cars (emmission controls) made the air so smoggy and the commies say the US pollutes the planet as a resident of NYC manhattan is country air compared to sao paulo. Do not get me wrong it is not trash Brasil time .the north east and rio grande do sul where nice and so much better!

I am not sure who the "commies" are, certainly Cuba, North Korea and Vietnam are not major players in regards to Kyoto, the point made is by someone who does not understand the science behind the treaty, our the enviroment itself. But in America's defense, why should they sign an unenforceable treaty? Signing a treaty means something in America and compaines would be help accoutable, the economy could suffer by additional regulations imposed by the government and put America at an economic disadvantage. But countries like Brazil and Mexico, who have already signed continue to pollute at will, with no regard to the treaty they signed, orthe health of th world. And both Mexico City and Sao Paulo are among the dirtiest cities on the face of the earth. With the population moving from the cities back to the rural areas of states mentioned by the poster, I am sure these "better" areas will soon become cesspools in short time, it is the nature of Brazil.

Thanks for the article. I just came back from Brazil recently & have to admit that I didn't like Sao Paulo. It's my third visit and it is too noisy & trashy for my tastes. Where is all the greenery? The southern areas like Santo Amaro, Indianpolis.. seem to be better. There has to be more respect for property. Littering is done all over the place. There is no consideration in general to keep the streets clean, graffitti to a minimum, etc.. The people have to respect their own properties and the city they live in.

It does get better once you leave the city. Santos was another mess to say in polite words. Praia Grande has changed within the last 10 years and is much better now. Mongagua is a nice, quiet town and Peruibe was beautiful. The mountains nearby was fantastic for a guy with sore eyes. That's what Brazil should be all about. Nature, Greenery, Respect for the enviornment. If I had to pick a spot, I would say Mongagua for being a quiet town but not much of an infrastructure there. (Schools, Hospitals, etc...) Nice place to retire. Peruibe seemed to have more. Again, I hear that Curitiba & Florianopolis are nice places. So. there are some great places to live.

If you want a nice place to live with most of the conveniences, why not consider the southern sections of the city like Santo Amaro, Sao Caetano do Sul, Sao Andre... There are good schools there, shopping and much more. Then if you want a break... you can always go to the resort towns along the coast and you will be there within 30 mins. to an hour. That might be my plan? Anyone that has any suggestions, I would appreciate it. Good Luck & Peace.

I have been lucky enough to visit many of the worlds largest and greatest cites. Sao Paulo ranks right there with the worst city that I have ever been in, and I travel their at least 4 times a year...because I have to. If the world wants an example of how poorly a city can be built, managed and policed, look no further than the neighborhoods of this armpit.

"I have been lucky enough to visit many of the worlds largest and greatest cites. Sao Paulo ranks right there with the worst city that I have ever been in, and I travel their at least 4 times a year...because I have to. If the world wants an example of how poorly a city can be built, managed and policed, look no further than the neighborhoods of this armpit."

You are sadly correct. I too travel broadly and have visited and worked in most of the world´s capitals, and largest cities. Sâo Paulo is certaibly an eye-soar and most def. a city I would NOT recommened to anyone.

Sure the cuisine is top notch, but what does one do to pass the time the remainder of the day when one is not eating? Dodge motoboys? Bullets? Price out armor-proofing for your car?

I´m surprised Mr. Fitzpatrick still lives there. He must being doing financially well, that could be the only reason for a gringo to suffer the pollution, crime and backwardness of that madhouse Brasil embraces as its economic capital.

Regadlress of his motives, I like his articles.

Always a pleasure to read factual comments about Brazil. John, your pieces are hard-hitting but honest assessments of the way things really are in the land of Carnaval and samba -- or maybe I should quantify that, in Sampa's case, to the land of motoboys and automobiles.

"the land of Carnaval and samba", Yes, and many, many other things as well, just another idiot gringo that thinks he knows something about Brasil. I have seen this kid a numner of times on this board, I suggest we not respond, then he can go back to his mommy.

Mr. Fitzpatrick may not know what Brazilians know about Brasil, but having lived there over a decade and adapted to life in the culture, he certainly knows more than most "gringos." And he knows what it's like for gringos trying to live there. Since that is who he wrote this article for, your idiotic arrogant comment is all the more ridiculous and petty. At least you've reminded the "gringos" that immature jerks live everywhere.

I don't have to live there, but I have many Brazilian friends who do. While, I would imagine that it would be difficult for a foreigner to relocate to Sao Paulo, the city, along with all of it's faults has barrios that are nice for shopping, the arts, eating and well...just hanging out. I also enjoy Sao Paulo's multi-cultural business enviroment, being in a hotel elevator you may find business people from Japan, Russia, Germany, and America at the same time...thank god the international business langauge is English, I would be lost with my poor Portuguese! Mr. Fitzpatrick speaks to places to live, but Pinherios is a great place to stay on business, as is Paulista (especialy in the Japanese area...I love suhsi!), and also the area around Morumbi. Yes, I am one who looks forward to my occasional visits to this large and sometimes complicated city, I guess it just depends on your mindset when you arrive.

It's you I am talking about dumbass, not Mr. Fitzpatrick!

Personally, think you're talking cause you like to hear yourself talking about yourself.

I make no pretense of anything more than, after my first visit, returning to live for three months in Sao Paulo, (Santa Cecilia neighborhood). I lived with a Brasilian friend in an apartomento in a typically urban Brasilian situation. I did not expect Paris, London, Disney Land,..in fact I did not expect anything. Life happened to me as it did to others. But when the day came that I could walk alone to the local Futurama and shop and pay while giving my phone number in Portugese was a big day. Riding a city bus was like an old "E" ticket ride at Disney World. It was a hoot, - and people would stand in line for hours for that opprtunity in Florida. Picking out assorted sobremesas at the Padaria Irma became a chereished routine. The only Americans I met were two young Mormon missionaries who enjoyed speaking English over breakfast as much as I did. I felt very close to my Brasilian friends and neighbors and welcomed into their lives because I totally shared with them the difficulties and joys of life as it is lived there. It was sadly very easy to spot the occasional loud, obnoxious North American who unwisely made a scene or attracted attention complaining because things weren't like they were in New York City, Chicago, or Houston. I grew up in Milwaukee where the little old Polish bushas would sweep the porch, steps, sidewalk, and even the street in front of their bungalows. But I knew I was not in Milwaukee or the Tampa Bay area where I had been livng and did not expect Sao Paulo to be the same. One thing I do know and will never forget is that I walked home from Midnight Mass at San Bento's at 2:00am.on Dec. 25, 2002. We passed under the Minhacao and some pretty scary areas, but we were not bothered or approached in any way. If I had done the same in St. Petersburg, Florida, - walk home late at night through the downtown (even on Christmas), I would NEVER have made it.
I guess what I am trying to share is that most of us are lucky enough to have an option of where we want to live or stay. If we don't like it, then don't live or stay there or visit there. There may be trash in Sao Paulo, but it is not necessary for the sometimes arrogant spoiled North American travelor to trash the city. When in Rome, do as the Romans. When in Sao Paulo, do as the Paulistas. Keep your head down, complain about the city services, but then get on with relishing a life with wonderfully warm and gererous friends where everything is not served up in generic plastic servings.

@ When In Rome ,- (or Sao Paulo),.........

You do know what a paragraph is don´t you?

"We passed under the Minhacao and some pretty scary areas, but we were not bothered or approached in any way. If I had done the same in St. Petersburg, Florida, - walk home late at night through the downtown (even on Christmas), I would NEVER have made it."

You keep wandering around those decrepid areas in SP a little longer and you´ll be singing a different tune.

Still, would you ever want to live there?

And Paulistas are the loudest most obnoxious people in Brasil. I´ve never seen north Americans´act like Paulistas. Check out Praia Rosa in Santa Catarina during the holidays - you want obnoxious, the Paulistas are only there to make everyone else´s vacation a living hell.

Tell us all where you are from and I will then tell you where "the loudest most obnoxious people in America live"

Cada vez voce prova mim mais intelligente! your idiotic arrogant comment is all the more ridiculous and petty. At least you've reminded the "gringos" that immature jerks live everywhere.

E como voce aconselhou mim sobre voce: "I suggest we not respond, then he can go back to his mommy."

Vou fazer isso agora, bobo.

All of you are right of course. Sao Paulo does have a lot of deficiencies. If you live there, what are you doing about it? If you aren't doing anything except venting your discomfort, then I reckon you are part of the problem.

I too am a guest resident in Brazil and encourage all of us to do something, in whatever measure, to open Brazilian's eyes to the fact that they really do have a beautiful country. Lets face it, even the locals that we work and associate with are pretty good people. The culture is friendly and there really are not so many countries on this planet where Americans are welcome with the authenticity of Brazil. Even if we mistreat and insult our host country.

Brazlians do respond and when a Brazilian says "Pode Deixar" you really can leave the matter in his hands.

David Arana

Really, it's true, in the current climate of anti-Americanism in the world, in general Brazilians continue to welcome American's. I have lived in Rio for a little over a year on a three year assignement, and while Brazilians like most of the world get their news from the local papers that feed anti-American propaganda. They are willing to listen and accept an American's point of view. I have made many freinds, and have expereinced not one incident of anti-Americanism...well, maybe one at the Gol counter in Sao Paulo, but when I discussed it with the Manager, the situation was dealt with harshly before my eyes, I am not sure if the young lady still has her job. Yes, I would say, that with the few exceptions, Brazilians are "pro-American", I wish people on this site would realize that, and that they have been for a very long time and stop trashing Brazil, and the wonderful people who live here.

Can't blame the Brazilians if they are anti-American. Americans are the most bigoted, narrow-minded, loud psychotic people on earth. They have no respect for anybody's culture but their own. THey think that everybody ought to get down on their knees and thank God that the rest of the world is blessed with their almighty presence.

Americans are the biggest whiners and complainers of any group of human beings on earth.

I should know all this about Americans because I am one.

Wow. As a first time poster, I did not expect the "energetic" response, - even to my grammer. Yes, I was mugged in Rio during my first visit. but I had prepared myself for the possibility and the young pivete who grabbed into my pocket got a handful of nothing but a very loud scream. My Brasilian hosts were mortified literally to the point of tears. However I did return to Brasil a year laterwith the intention of living in Sao Paulo. Met with realtors and checked out apartomentos for sale, but could not get my Visa extended with a simple job teaching English.

I discovered that Brasilians, like many other people, for the most part have the ability to distinguish Americans from American policies. I never encountered anti-American feelings directed towards me. On the contrary, I was always without exception treated warmly in Sao Paulo. Even Magilla, the Brasilian national boxing hero, came up behind me in the mall in Marumbi and warned me to be careful because I had on Dockers shorts with the big pockets. He made sure I was being careful about my personal belongings. (After my experience on Av. Atlantica in Rio, I was!)

There is a part of me that wants to respond to some of the recent rudeness on this Board with like kind. But, in fact the very individual(s) who finds it necessary to post anonymous rude comments can be found on any other internet site. There are, and always will be certain people anywhere, - here, in Brasil, NYC, London, or Paris who get their jollies by that sort of thing.

When it came time to leave, I cried in the street when bidding Tchau to my friends. Living in Sao Paulo I had seen more than I would ever have imagined. In my later life I have experienced significant change - (learning that Rome was not the center of Christianity) and Washington, D.C. was not the centerof the political world. My life now revolves on a slightly different axis and I will always have my time in Sao Paulo and the warm, generous, lively, sensual Brasilians to thank for giving me a different and broader view of life. Muito Obrigado!

"Tell us all where you are from and I will then tell you where "the loudest most obnoxious people in America live"

LONDON! And I actually don´t care where the most obnoxious American´s live.

Than a loud mouthed, big bellied, beer smelling Brit to tell us all who is obnoxious! f**k the queen my friend!

Tudo Bem Filha da p**a.

Arew you annoyed at the British head of State or the pop group, how can you respond as you do then call someone else obnoxious, you tend to prove his point.
Now go f**k yourself you uneducated yank peice of s**t.. and you have no friends

I hate loud mouth yanks!! well said, they are nearly all shallow tossers with no idea about culture or others rights.. bollocks to them

Yanks have s**t for brains... send them all to iraq

As you have no idea how to enjoy anothers culture...f**king stay home you moaning uneducated pschotic plebs

the americans are in general a bunch of loud mouthed slobs

Wow, for people who seem to hate the US so much you sure do spend a lot of time talking about them on a site geared to Brasil...things that make you go hmmmm....

Looking at some of the posts I feel like there is an invasion of junior high school kids going on here ... what a pitty ... This site has potential to be a much nicer venue for discussion and mutual learning. A pity it is being spoiled by those brats...

I couldn´t agree more guest, but when you spend a few years or more here in Brasil - you´ll note that school kid mentality almost EVERYWHERE you go. You need to experience here in Brasil to believe it. On a playful level it´s charming, on a professional level it´s frusterating.

It is a shame the silly banter takes away from the sites intention, but ironically it is actualy a great lesson for those who´ve not been to Brasil but are researching it - these types of childish" tit for tat" debates are inicative of the culture in general - sad but true.

I also think that this site has more to show than some nonsensical comments by some people with lack of self-esteem.

So, why don't you hire a MODERATOR, Fitzpatrick?

If it's not the case, how about making a general search in the comments once in a while and deleting the ones with excessive cursing words?

-Ran

I'm Brazilian and I always though that there was a way out of this childish Brazilian talk that you are referring to.

While working, I always try to focus on the matter of the current problem and so on. However, with the Brazilian-style way of daily life...

Sometimes, when you are on a meeting or something and say a word or a phrase that can have a double meaning, almost everyone will start laughing and saying something about you that would be funny if the time and place were appropriate. And if you complain, the whole thing gets even worse--"tem culpa no cartorio..."

This same behavior applies for any kind of conversation.

Looking back, I think that what could be lacking in most Brazilians is a sense of respect for one’s opinion and of confusion of time and place to deal with matters of life, of applying the right weight according the necessity of the matter.

Now I live abroad. Guess what? The same thing happens here, but with a twist.
Here people do say funny things IF you allow them to say so. Also, the frequency with they happen is not even a fraction of the Brazilian ones.

This is very interesting dialog, and I would agree to some extent, but please look at the postings again, there seem to be American's and English joining in the fun...imaturety is not cultural. I will agree that the Portuguese language is full of expressions, and Brasilians have a good knack for one liners, the Portuguese language is difficult, and even after 2 years I make many mistakes, my friends are patient and don't laugh...not too my face anyway. Still, Brasilian's posses a huge amount of national pride which results in nationalism, this can not be denied, and while it should be respected, it does sometimes get in the way of a substantive discussion over issues. Eu adoro Brasil!

"and even after 2 years"

Get back to me after another year or so, we´ll see what tune you´re whistling. But you are correct, national pride get´s in the way of a lot here - whether it´s the Brasilians defending their country, or American´s defending theres´. When you start speaking from the gut, and not the mind, it can get rather heated and emotional.

One more year, then it's back home to the states, San Diego. I will treasure every day that my family has been here, and return often to see the many wonderful Brazilian freinds we have made. My wife is Carioca, and while she enjoyed being home, I imagibe she will be ready to return to the states as well. I am glad that you have found a better life outside of Brazil, and after two years I understand why people hereleave for other countries. But I have great respect for the Brazilians who live here and manage to live productive and happy lives in their country, and there are many. I have found Brazilians to be optimists, while they live every day with the huge problems that continue to plauge this country, there desire to see Brazil better is encouraging, if not realistic.

Abracos,

Here in Los Angelos, CA (where I live) it's one big mass, just like in other big cities. We Americans should concentrate on or own problems because we have alot of problems (social, health) here.
Sao Paulo is a great city. I have visited it 2000 and I enjoyed. For me personel it's like NYC but then more dangerous then NYC but the same like L.A. same mess.

Dear NOt,

You are acting that our country is like Alice in wonderland, but guess what..it's NOT.
Here we also have big problems and with people like you we will never solve it, because we don't like to see it.
Oh, also guess, your city San Diego..is simply Bankrupted by terrible mismanagement.

"Bankrupted by terrible mismanagement." This statement fits the whole of the "Golden State." They even "arranged" an Austrian to fix that mess...

What's wrong with the Brazilians playfulness? It is better than the bitter, grim, griping sourfaced American demeanor. Many Americans walk around with their faces screwed up like they are smelling pee.

Lot's of good stuff to comment on here. First, it is not my job to solve problems in Brasil...it's yours, Brasilians. I simply stated I have enjoyed my assigment here very much and look forward to my last year. As far as California, how can you possibly compare it to any state in Brazil, this is moronic. At least there are still jobs that pay good salaries, all kids can recieve a decent education, the poor don't starve, the is no slave labor in our agricultural areas, agri-workers are not murdered by masked men, if you commit a crime you go to prison, if you commit three crimes you go to prison for life, drug gangs don't terrorize citizens in downtown LA, San Fransico or San Diego...in fact, you can even drive a very nice car without the fear of being kidnapped. And buy the way, Arnold is an American, it is what makes our country great, people can come here and make something of themselves, that is why so many Brasilians leave their familes and risk there lives to come here. Yes, American's sometimes lack culture, and are too serious, I on occasion have been accused of doing so. And I admire the Brasilian "playfulness" it is very amusing, but it gets in the way of people taking Brasil seriously...because of this "playfulness", most in the world find Brasilians untrustworthey in buisness dealings. I have many friends here who have asked my help in contacting American companies in their behalf, because when they say they are from Brasil, they recieve no respect or consideration. No, you keep laughing, and the world will keep moving by you.As for going back to San Diego, I will enjoy walking the streets at night without fear of my families safety.

Nicely put

... we can't close our eyes to the serious issue of illegal immigration. I have known one San Diego fellow, a boater in the harbor Island marina, who methodically brought in illegal aliens through sea to work God-knows-where, generally for a miserable pay check. This continued on even after tougher border security measures were put in place after 9/11. I suppose the coast-guard had little interest in stopping a luxury yacht. Don't be fooled: this was not a well intentioned fellow, trying to promote the well being of some poorer neighbors to the south. These illegal actions were geared towards profit, and supplied underpaid workers to several bona fide businesses located below the in-land check point. Even if the magnitude of the two problems are very different, the underlying issues of exploitation are the same.

I am not sure what a posting about illegal immigration in San Diego has to do with an article about Sao Paulo, but immigration in general is a mess in the US. People seem to forget that we allowed 15 people who stayed illegaly, and then eventually flew three airplanes into US buildings...this is the result of our failed immigration policies of the past...there is a lot of blame to share. Illegal immigration is still a huge problem, there is no doubt, although I feel our government is doing a better job, but it is an impossible task to keep out everyone who wants to come here. The US must understand, that it shares some blame with it's policies of exploating developing countries for its own benefit. This explotation, prevents countries from developing strong economies of their own, thus creating the jobs and enviroment necessary to lower illegal immigration. Only by negotiating fair trade agreements and economic policies, can the US polices help keep people at home. In most cases it is not their desire to leave their families and friends, it is survival. I have been impressed with Brasil's stance on trade with America, they seem unwilling to enter into an unfair agreement.

I was born in São Paulo and have always lived here. I´ve been to many places in the US from New York to San Francisco, from Miami to Chicago, Europe and places as far as Moscow and I am forced to agree with most of you about the good and bad things about São Paulo. It´s so funny though to see Americans and Brits bickering at each other about petty things... Brazil has lots of problems and São Paulo, thank God, couldn´t be an exception (if it were, everybody would want to live here). I love New York and some day São Paulo and "paulistanos" will solve their (our) problems and become something like NY (a much bettered São Paulo). One thing I´m proud of though... As a "paulistano", and due to the ethnic and cultural diversity of São Paulo, I´ve learned how to behave anywhere in the world, respecting and admiring every culture for what they might have of better. I ceratainly don´t like the American policy towards the world, but of course I don´t blame every American for it. The off-topic is this: GUYS, (GRINGOS), PLEASE, DO WATCH YOUR SPELLING!!! I WANT TO BELIEVE IT´S DUE TO THE HURRY IN WRITING, BUT SOMETIMES I WONDER... ENGLISH IS NOT MY MOTHER TONGUE, AND JUST BECAUSE OF THAT, I TRY TAKE ALL THE CARE I CAN WHEN WRITING IN IT... PLEASE, DON´T KILL THIS WONDERFUL LANGUAGE...

Wellington Peixoto

Please, where you read "...I TRY TAKE ALL THE CARE...", please read, "I TRY TO TAKE ALL THE CARE...". Sorry :-))

Wellington Peixoto

Your comment about not hating all Yanks for policies you don't like is appreciated. The issue I find in these comments is a bunch of general insults and immature comments badmouthing people you don't even know because you object in some way to past behavior of others you have encountered. That does nothing to help anyone. Nor does it encourage fruitful dialog. There is so much more we can talk about here. And yes, such comments are common in every culture -- all too often among people who mistake themselves for intellectuals. It is sad. It just causes more focus on the wrong things, instead of the things that can bring the world together.

In hindsight, my comment on illegal immigration in SD does look misplaced. I meant to draw a parallel between exploitation of cheap labor and quasi-slavery in two urban centers of very different background, and it was mostly a counterpoint for Mr. Nothing Wrong.

Cheers!

I have lived in Sao Paulo for five years with my family and we all pretty much love it. It is a difficult city to visit. You need to know your way around, but it grows and grows on you. There is everything here if you know where to look - energy, life, humour, beauty, great restaurants and things to do. And is very inexpensive. It ios not without its problems and shortcomings - but then who is?

In term sof places to live, I would go for Jardins every time. Apartments aare much less hassle than houses.

Wow... I was wondering if anyone has some advice for me! I am trying to move to Sao Paulo to work. I dont care about all the bad things about the city, nothing is perfect! Sao Paulo has a lot to offer and I would love to have the chance to work there! Please help!

I lived in sao paulo and neighboring areas (praia grande, maua, sao bernardo) for two years and loved all of it. The city is so big that it offers anything and everything. I highly recommend living all around, each place I lived offered something just slightly different. Keep an open mind and look for great friendships and food. You won't be disappointed!!

Attitude is everything, I promise you'll love SP. I did!!!!!!

I'm from Sao Paulo, and I would strongly recommend to live in one of the following districts:

- Itaim
- Moema
- Vila Madalena
- Vila Nova Conceição
- Jardins

These are places with lots of restaurants nearby, intense nightlife, safe and close to most of the top companies (banks, consulting, others) in the city.

As an advice: short business trips to Sao Paulo in general do not leave a good impression about the city. Try to know the locals, and they will help you a lot to love the city. I'm currently living in the US, and I lived in California for 2 years during my MBA at Stanford, but I miss Sao Paulo every single day.

www.easyportuguese.com - Learn Portuguese for free

Sampa became my city since I left a more rural environment in the state of the same name. However, 19 years ago I immigrated to the US & NYCity has become my city of residence & Sampa my "pie d'aterre" (however you spell or pronounce that expression). When I recently visited SP I found it more dirty than under Marta, the previous mayor & Im not even crazy about her. SP's & Brazil's social problems havent got any better either, but I still enjoyed eating 'picanha' at a Vila Madalena restaurant/cafe', & shared leftovers of a pizza disk I had bought at Habib's in Vila Mariana with kids watching parked cars for some money & appreciated the architecture of sobrados (townhouses) in Pinheiros/Vila Madalena sections & huge terraced "apartamentos" in Morgado de Mateus St. in between Vl. Mariana & Ibirapuera Pk neighb. To make a long story short, I have been trying to live w. the garbage & crime of New York as well as Sampa. But I've never been mugged there or in Rio, but twice here in the Big Apple. And I have been trying to do my best to making a difference in both environments, for yes, we are responsible for bringing a change to wherever we go. In NYC I teach in the so called 'ghettos' where many US nationals fail to set foot but instead bash poverty & crime in other countries when it is the responsibility of descendents of many comfortable opressors to help social mobility happen for the less forntunate. NY, CA, or even London, are after all places where luxury & misery walk together during the day & at dusk people return to their segregated living. If you call that development & democracy & think that only the "3rd world" is marked by those sad factors, you're dead wrong. By living in and visiting world cities such as Sao Paulo, Rio, New York, San Francisco, San Diego, Los Angeles, Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, San Juan, London, Paris, Istanbul, Prague, Lisbon, Porto, Barcelona, Madrid, Barcelona, Salamanca, Geneva, Amsterdam, & Brussels, I've learned to appreciate beauty in any setting & people (& sometimes get mad at them too) & be more compassionate towards human misery. After all, we're the same old world w. great potentials & yet w. the same terrible weaknesses of greed, apathy, prejudice, & selfishness, which need to be promptly addressed, for all we do reflects on ourselves. Fitzpatrick is right about the Pinheiros neighborhood, which strives to be a little town crashed by highrisers. Sampa's metro system is only 57 km long & very young but, despite lack of proper AC, is the cleanest in the world maybe because it isnt open 24 hrs & one can always see someones sweepig even inside its wagons. Homelessness is a bigger eyesore in SP than in NYCity, not because SP has more peddlers, but because many of them are street kids (Hey, Brazil is the country w. the largest number of Roman Catholics & even condoms are discouraged by archbishops. Not that the faithful take them that seriously in Brazil or are all impregnating careless teens. But you never know the extent of the influence! Maybe I should blame ignorance & not the church. Or both!) Unless you have lots of money & care about status, please do not move to Itaim, Moema, Vl Nova Conceicao, or Jardins like someone suggested. And forget about Morumby (too far, cold, & snobbish, though there are favelas there too & kidnaps may happen). Those sections do not necessarily represent the spirit of Brazilian cities, for well-to-do or wannabes live there & as a tourist you dont want to be surrounded by Hillfigger stores & pretense "1st world" inhabitants. When they get kidnapped & only freed after a certain amount of money is paid, you may even wonder if the saying "what goes around comnes aorund" isnt being fulfilled. Needless to say, the wealthy here, as well as in all parts of this world, live in opulence & are served by low paid workers who can barely pay for the rent of their shacks. For culture, go to MASP museum --the largest in Latin America-- on Paulista Ave. which looks like a suspended concrete box, dedicated by none other than the Queen of the UK; the Pinacoteca museum in the Luz district where 2 magnificent train stations have been restored & part of one of them functions as a symphonic hall (be extra careful in the area also called Cracolandia cause of the crack addicts, prostitutes, pimps & criminals); the Sacred Art museum & a huge Neapolitan Nativity scene across form Pinacoteca on Tiradentes Ave.; Ipiranga Independence Museum; the Bandeiras monument w. horses & Paulista Pioneers in the Ibirapuera pk; the Unique hotel for fancy drinks; Se' Cathedral in the centro & Syrian Orthodox Cathedral at Paraiso metro station; Achiropita church in Bela Vista or Bixiga, one of the Italian sections where the best pizza in the world is served in many pizzerias & cantinas, between Bixiga & Liberdade the Basilica do Carmo is a fine example of Brazilian barroc with paintings by Benedito Calixto, which gave name to Fitzpatrick beloved square in Pinheiros which may have some interesting gals/guys but boy i has turned ugly since I took German classes at the Goethe Institut there. Liberdade metro sta. has a Japanese fair on Sundays & lots of restaurants. Streets may have Japanese style poles & lamps but the sections is greyish & not that amusing. Vila Madalena has many bars, restaurantes & night clubs & so does Jardins, Moema on Ibirapuera Ave. & sections as far as Tatuape' in the Zona leste (East Side), but the old Centro around Republica Square has the best galeto (deeply fried chicken parts w/ plenty salad bar & rice) at Galeto's & some fine restaurants & churrascarias in hotel restaurants such as Hilton SP. Pompeia in the Zona Oeste not far from Madalena & Pinheiros has one of the best churrascarias where freshly Brazilian style barbecued meats are served from their skewrs. Caipirinha, as you may know is a national cachaca or vodka drink, but in the damp Paulistano winter without heating system, "vinho quente" (hot wine) is often served. You may also find "quentao", hot cachaca w/ ginger & other spices on festas juninas --celebration of the 3 popular saints Anthony, John & Peter in June-- usually at home or rented clubs where country style square dance is performed & hill billy costumes are worn. A cosmopolitan immigration center, SP is a gourmet mecca ranging from Native (Paulista, Mineira, Northeastern,Bahian, Amazonian, Gaucha, Midwestern, Carioca, Feijoada) to Portuguese, Italian, Polish, Scandinavian, French, Arabic, Japanese, Korean, Indian, Chinese, German, Jewish, Vegetarian, Armenian, Turkish, Russian,etc. The food is tasty & not forte on condiments such as the Bahian or even certain US soups, for Paulistanos are not usually crazy about black or red pepper. As NYC & many other places, you have to know SP better to like it. Pollution & the first sights from the airport to the city may shock you. Once you get used to the crazy weather, if you ever do, & the people, who are often bashed as Brazil's coldest --but any Brazilian will enjoy the company of a foreigner-- you'll get to like this vibrant creative megalopolis.

I want to travel to Brazil and have fun. Where are the best spots to have some good drinks and meet cool people. Thanks. ARod

Dear Off-topic... (sort of),
Eu comcordo com voce quando voce disse que era para as pessouas AMERICANAS prestarem mais atencao quando estiverem escrevendo... eles escrevem tudo errado... eu escrevo o portugues errado.. tambe sei disso mais e porque ja morro nos USA a muito tempo... mais voltando ao seu comentario... voce falou que o Ingles nao e a sua LINGUA... voce usa a palavra LINGUA no Brasil.. quando voce vai escrever isso aqui nos USA, voce nao so traduz a palavra para o Ingles porque tem umas palavras que nao faz sentido intende??? Entao so para deixar voce sabendo... nao usa a palavra TONGUE... ela esta ERRADA, usa a palavra LANGUAGE...

Nao leve a mal... mais quando eu li o seu comentario e vi que voce estava dando a MAIOR licao de moral, voce mesma escreve errado... eu ri tanto!!! voce nem imagina!!!
Desculpa... mais eu te ajudei ne!!!
Bye !!!

John,

I had amired to your comments on brasillian culture, I know about the americans however what reception do the scottish people like yourself and me also, Planing to go to rio next year

ye

I have now been to Sao Paulo at least 5 times. Once to Rio. I found Brazillians to be so charming and friendly. I never went anywhere NEAR anything tourist like for a minute. I engaged every Brazillian that I could. I rode the subway, walked at night. Walked thru the parks. I agree that Sao Paulo is not the prettiest city on earth I used common sense walking around town and always put 50 real in my shoe. But to bash such a place is simply wrong. It has almost 20 million people living in it. I can't imagine what Orlando might look like with 20 million people. I could not get enough of the little cafe's, sandwich shops etc I honestly think that I would love to live in such a city. I live currently in Orlando, Fla and I think this town needs more work that Sao Paulo. The cultural capital of Florida. If you want to go and meet some real Brazillians - then you'll have to leave the safety bubble of the Crowne Plaza or Marriott - and get out in it. Stop living in fear. Use common sense, but get out and mingle. I met some wonderful people. I could get mugged leaving the Ill Wind Tea room in Boca Raton too - but I don't loose sleep over it.

I love Sao Paulo. Like New York City to me. Except with no east coasters in it!

I´m Italian and visit São Paulo 5 times. The city has a lot of problems, but brasilian people are the most beautiful population of the world:happy, friendly.
To stay in São Paulo is more pleasant than to stay in most of big cities in USA or Europe. American are very arrogants and in Europe people are not friendly, mainly in Fance, Spain and Germany.
I recommend that who lives or visit São Paulo to go to Morumbi Stadium to watch a soccer game. São Paulo Soccer Club is the present World Champion, having defeated the rich Liverpool in the final in Japan.
São Paulo have many pretty girls (there is no country with more beautiful girls than Brazil) and Malls are good places to enjoy the day.

Hi All,
What a good collection of comments there ! Nice work guys!!
Now, please help me for -
Location to stay in a rental flat for two near Av Paulista in Sao Paulo.
What can be the rent for 1 bed room flat furnished with bed,TV, Fridge , washing machine and a decent kitchen.
Thanks to all in advance.
P.S. Please avoid comparing any culture and countries.
--Soni

I read all comments in this page, I like people's point of view.
I've been to Sao Paulo many times, and I didn't like it, too big, too noise, polution. Even Rio, it's not ok with me, but the Regiao dos Lagos, this is something else, Buzios, Rio das Ostras, Cabo Frio, Arraial do Cabo,I feel as I'm in another planet. I am a Brazilian living in the USA for about 21 years, and thinking to move back to Brazil, 6 months here and 6 months there, I deal with real estate in Florida, and I started something else in Brazil with real estate as well, in my site www.flatpoint.com yet under constrution, and will be ready in few days, I will show a side of Brazil unknown for too many people, showing mansions, etc... because of the lack of information in not having a MLS to back them up, realtors in Brazil are stuck and can't spread the word, and I wish to become a connection, helping visitors and those thinking about move to Brazil, perhaps my site could help them.

Sincerely

Joe Silva

I went to brazil in febuary, we stayed in rio das ostras with my in laws , i cant stop having the urge to go back. My first impression when i arrived in rio de janairo was how dirty it was, but the people were so kind and fun loving and free, i loved it. People talk about all the crime but i was not scared once[accept for their driving lol]. If i thought for one second that my husband could get a job there i would movoe without question

I'm an American married to a Brasilian. My wife is from Sao Paulo, but she lived in England and the United States for at least 10 years. I've been visiting Brasil since 2004, and we moved here permanently in December of 2007. We are renting a house in Peruibe, about two hours south of Sao Paulo, while we look for a house to purchase here.

I like Peruibe, but you could not pay me to live in Sao Paulo. It has to rank among the dirtiest, ugliest, and most crowded cities in the world. Aside from some nice restaurants, it has absolutely nothing going for it. The architecture is disgusting. (It seems that no one has ever heard of steel or glass - everything is drab concrete.) There seem to be more buildings with graffiti than without, and how some of the vandals get their spray paint five stories up is beyond my comprehension.

Traffic in Sao Paulo is abominable. Trees and greenery are quite rare. Stray dogs are abundant. Subways and buses are overcrowded to an obscene level. The favelas (shantytowns) may not be quite as violent as those in Rio, but there are more of them in Sao Paulo. (Life expectancy in a Sao Paulo favela is probably greater than for one in Rio, but likely not by much.)

Most of Sao Paulo consists of poorly-constructed adobe brick or cinder block houses, plastered over and painted (to which is then applied the graffiti, and layers of soot from tens of thousands of old, smoke-spewing trucks). If there are any building codes, they're not being followed. If a homeowner has no room to expand his house outward, he expands upward - regardless of whether the foundation can properly support the addition. In the event of a large earthquake here, there will be a disaster at a level unkown in recorded history.

Even my wife, who is a "paulista," refuses to ever again live in Sao Paulo. We'll visit relatives there from time to time, but that's about it. In the meantime, we'll buy a house in Peruibe, and hope it remains tranquil (when it isn't jammed with holiday visitors at New Years and Carnaval).

I've certainly experienced most of the good things people have had to say about Brasil and its people, but Sao Paulo is not for the faint of heart. If you have to live there, save as much as you can and hope for the day when you can get out!

Just wish to say thanks to everyone that uses this post to explain to us 'gringos' realistically how it is to live in SP, more points of view - the better. When many different views are posted on any given topic (i.e. what can a foreigner like / dislike about SP?), then and only then someone like me - who has never visited the country - can actually form an opinion, not to forget being very grateful for the assistance along the way.

Further, please note we (foreigners) all read these blogs about SP as we potentially wish or need to relocate / live / travel there.

So , please, all of you that have something to add or share about actual life in SP, please go ahead, disregard the comments on ethinicity etc. newyorkers, brits, sept 11th, or else, and just tell it like it is, keeping your focus on SP. It's not that other opinions do not count, but, it would really help a great deal for us that came here to collect the needed information, to do so without getting involved in other debates...

P.S. Hope no one got offended , that was never my intent...

P.S.S. I also wish to kindly ask any foreigner currently living in SP to discuss, from his point of view, best areas to live in SP for someone not in the highest income bracket, but having a decent, but monthly, earnings, i.e. high salary is SP terms, good salary in terms of earning abroad, but still, a salary.

Thank you all for taking time to read my post, and hopefully, give some further insight! THANKS IN ADVANCE,

Iva

That is perfect that we can take the home loans and that opens up new possibilities.