Brazzil

nice article john!
I had a nice time reading it.
thank,
a.

Dear, God! I think this is a sign of the end off all time.
John FP wrote a nice article about Brazil. He is not cranky today. He woke up in a good mood and did not hate the country for one second after yeears of non-stop hating!
I don't know about you, but entering my A-bom shelter with tons of food and water.
See you after World War Three!

This article was written like someone obsessed with race (dare I say, typical of people from Great Britain?). It's also interspersed with what appear to be the writer's own biased stereotypes, which are contradictory and confused. Here's a nice example:

"[T]he Brazilians, who (as any resident foreigner knows) have never been very good at discerning one nationality from another."

Well, certainly not like a race-obsessed Scotsman (i.e., “resident foreigner”). On the other hand, I'm not sure how a "resident foreigner" in his thirties could possibly know so thoroughly the eternal characteristics of a diverse nation of immigrants that would fit Lord knows how many land masses the size of Scotland. I guess we should take his word for that.

"It has been estimated that around 7% of Brazil's population is of Arab descent. Personally, I find this hard to believe but . . ." Well, but, this race-obsessed Scotsman sure sees a lot of them, but not anywhere near 7%; and, you know, unlike the Brazilians, HE is expert at discerning race. So, who are you going to believe, “researchers” or a Scotsman sitting in a cafe discerning the race of and counting the Paulistas walking by?

Here's a nice backhanded compliment to the Brazilian "race": "This ability to take a foreign ingredient and make it Brazilian is one of Brazil's strengths." Well, Brazil is sort of a country of "foreigners" now isn't it? Anyone surprised here? Even he sees the silliness in his statement, quickly admitting that "In fact, I am being a bit inaccurate in calling these people Arabs because I bet every single 'Arab' born here (and even some born abroad) would describe himself or herself as a Brazilian." But not this Great Discerner of Race . . . or would he?

"This intermarriage over a century has led to many Paulistanos having an ethnic lineage which combines Italian, Portuguese, Spanish and Lebanese/Syrian blood." Good lord! What do you call "these people"? Now that’s what I call taking a foreign ingredient and making it Brazilian! Of course, if there’s one drop of African blood, I’m pretty sure I know what names he might call such a person.

I'm not Brazilian; so let's not start jumping on my critical comments, mischaracterizing them as "typical Brazilian nationalistic defensiveness." Overall, I found the article to be an interesting reflection on the ethnic history of Brazil, on the order of a tour book description, though flawed by the author's apparent personal biases and what I have cheekily called "race obsession." But, I’m thinking that if one is more interested in learning the ethnic history of Brazil, there are more accurate, unbiased sources available.

I wouldn't say that scottish are obsessed with race more than americans with their curious definition of "hispanic".
What does it mean, afterall??
If it reffers to people coming from Spain, it doesn't make sense, because their are "white".
If it reffers to spanish speaking people, then it makes even less sense, because there are black, european "white", native american, arab, jews... all speaking spanish.
If it reffers to latin americans it also doens't make sense, because there is enormous ethnic variation and even linguistic variation, since Brazilians don't even speak spanish.
I find it surreal that they insist on creating this fictitious ethnicity... once when entering the US I was requested to fill up a form and had to choose an ethnicity, I didn't know what to choose. Growing up as a brazilian, in 25 years I had never even thought about that. What ethnicity was mine??
Here in brazil we only make distinction between indian/native american, black/african, and white. And Also asian (japanese, chinese, korean), but these are many times considered "white", just like a Portuguese or Italian would. And so are the Arabs.
In brazil you're either white or black and the vast majority of the 180 million brazilians are something inbetween, often with German, African, Italian, Lebanese and Spanish blood, all mixed up, as is my case, so people don't even care so much about ethnicity. It doesn't make sense in a place were everybody is a mix of everything.
And then when we travel to the US and get in touch with their culture we have a bit of a cultural shock with their always categorizing everyone in "races" or ethnicities.

I agree with the argument posted by someone above.

While ago, a top executive woman visiting Brazil from USA said something interesting; that the term "Latin America" was erroneously invented by the Americans.

She is right; so what that means, “Latin America?

For example, let's say that a country would belong to LA if its population speaks a Latin based language; Spanish, French, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian and any dialect of those languages although that is not the way Americans define the region. That would leave out many countries and would include Quebec.

Why the Americans call Latin every country south of their border? The problem is that Jamaica, for example, is not a Latin based country. However, most people in the USA would categorize them as Latinos. By the other hand, French is a based Latin language and therefore French Canadians should be classified as Latinos. But that is not the way Americans see French Canada. Why?

Now, what about race? Does the Hispanic represent a “race”? The answer is "no". Are Brazilians, Hispanics? The answer is “no”. Are Brazilians, Latinos? Now, that is a very hard thing to identify because the Americans define Latinos as people of Spanish culture and language. Now tell that to the Indian population of Paraguay, for example, that speak a Native language. Brazil is a country with a strong influence from Italian, Portuguese, African, Indian, German, Arabic, Japanese and even American culture, all mixed at this point in different regions of Brazil. So, is the October Fest, for example, now part of the Latino culture in Southern Brazil? I doubt it. Is the African culture predominantly in Bahia influenced by the Spanish culture? No. So, the definition of Latino for the people south of the border is incorrect in many senses. It is even dumb.

The most incongruous thing I ever heard about this confusing way to label people was when a Spaniard, once I met in the USA, called us Latinos. I asked him, aren't you also Latino? Well, he said, not exactly Latino as Latin American. I asked him what he meant with that. He explained, apologetically, that he was just borrowing the American terminology. How silly! Americans are confused and are confusing everyone even the so intellectually proud Europeans,

Poor John Fitzpatrick, even when he writes something as poitically correct as this, his detractors find someting to complain about. He can however take comfort in the fact that no mater what he says, his critics will always degrade their arguments into an indictment of all that is American. This poor blameless Scotsman unwittingley generates more insults of the U.S. than Osama bin Laden and Sadam Hussein on their best days.
For those who haven't bothered to think beyond their own bias, the term Latin America is meant to define those countries on the American Continents that were colonies of nations whose language/culture were of Latin origin. Thus, the U.S. and Canada might be considered Angol American.
Be that as it may, the term Latino/Latina is a term devised as self definition by those who carry the label.At some point in our history it became politically incorrect to refer to Mexicans as Mexicans, thus they became Latinos and caried the rest of Central and South America along with them.

Nobody was discussing the origin of the term "latino" or its origin, as it is quite obvious.
They were talking about "hispanic" and about how in America a new ethnicity has been fabricated to include this individuals and also about how in the US ethnicity is taken seriously as opposed how it is viewed in Brazil, for example. And this isn't saying one is worse than the other, it was you who interpreted it so.

".... some of the survivors found safety and a better life in Brazil, a country which always extends a welcome to foreigners. "

Hey, this is the best thing about Brazil that John will ever say.

-

Latino has little to do with the concept of a latin based or derived language. It is more of a stereotype of the mixed race Spain colonized territories in the Americas. This includes the US. Latinos were in the California and Texas before it was part of the US. Currently the term is perjorative in nature outside its home context. Brazilians don't really understand this idea. Latinos are not part of the mainstream society due to their culture. Plain and simple. People who keep a foriegn culture within the US are not mainstream. Thus Brazilians who stay in the ghetto are part of the Latino subculture by virtue of the fact that they are not part of the larger group.
Thats all there is to it.
Latino culture is seen to be low end. It may be fun (tequila) or interesting (tacos, enchiladas) but its not upscale because the driving force behind its growth is ethnic in nature and thus a threat to the dominant group values.
Mexico does not have border patrols to keep Americans from crossing illegally.

We do understand the concept of latino.
It is the "hispanic" AS AN ETHNICITY that intrigues us. It exists only inside the US.

The definition of Latino: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinos

The definition of Latin America:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America

Pay attention to “Latin America is the American equivalent of Latin Europe.”

Definition of Latin Europe:

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Europe

Notice that Brazilians are not Latino/ Hispanics because we are not of Spanish culture.

But we are a Latin country because of the Latin based language but not totally Latin because our culture has mix of African and native Indians and some places also influence from German and related cultures. Confused?

Is Quebec a Latin American region comparing to Latin Europe?

The title of this post, “Arabs and Jews Find Success and Peace in Brazil”, is a mismatch that many people make. First-off, Jews are not a race of people as the Arabs are, but Jews (Judaism) are a religious entity just as Islam is, therefore to compare a Jew with an Arab rather than an Islamic person or a Christian per say is misleading. As there are many different people of different ethnic backgrounds under the religious label of Christianity, so it is the same with Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism, etc. Jews (Judaism) was initially given to a sect of the Ancient religious people called Israel which was a new name given by God to the family of Jacob. God did not name Abraham, or his two sons Isaac and Ishmael “Israel”, but the new name Israel came to Jacob the son of Isaac, leaving Abraham Hebrew, and Isaac Hebrew as well because his mother Sarah was Hebrew also. Ishmael on the other hand was a mix of two races because of his mother of a different race which brought on the Arabs. Israel or Israelis are not a race of people, but a religious state drawn out of Hebrews like the Punjab which is drawn out of East India. As I said above the reason for this being that, Jacob whom was a Hebrew by descent was given the spiritual name Israel of above by God. Jews or Judaism drawn out of the Ancient religious state of Israel though being drawn out of the race of the Hebrews was a spiritual state. You may compare a Christian with an Islamic or Punjabi or Buddhist etc, but not either with any race. Races are cultural while religious entities or states are spiritual. Keep this clear in your conversations.

"I wouldn't say that scottish are obsessed with race more than americans"

Ur, neither did I.

I met a guy in the US who insisted that he's Latino becuase his ancestors are from Italy (he pronounced "Latino" with a thick Mexican Spanish accent to pump up his credibility). So, there you go. I don't think that the term was intended origianlly to include people from Italy, but what the hell. The terminology is goofy, people are goofy.

As for "hispanic," I recall that the term was invented during the Nixon administration. It is disfafored, but it is used by the federal and state governments in the US. Hmm, I'll have to check out the wikipedia stuff you site on that one.

Moreover, I was told that certain governmental benefits that inure to "hispanic" people in the US do not inure to the benefit of people from non-Spanish speaking countries "south of the border." It's all crazy.

Anyway, all this "hispanic" and "Lantino" stuff is quite irrelevant to the article. But isn't that nice?

In regards to the american of italian decent claiming to be latino it makes as much sense or more for him to claim to be latino as it does for your average mexican. Given that latino refers to latin which refers to people of latin speaking languages. Which all originated in europe and of which italian is on. Although since he probably was a fully assimulated american one could still argue that he is anglo, culturally. I believe the confusion of latino as a race stems from a couple of things. People who's ancestors were at one point in latin america, be they of european descent, mestizo, black or what ever realized when they came to the US, that there were benefits to be had by not assimalating and being considered a race apart, mainly in the form of affirmative action and keeping ones own culture. While this enabled the mainly mestizo mexican immigrants to for example demand more government jobs, bilingual education, the ability to get into school easier, and gain minority scholorships it also allowed the cuban elite in Miami to gain government construction contracts easier and to get their kids into schools such as harvard, yale and what not easier. In other words there was and is a benefit to them to consider latino as a race. Perpetuatig this the fact that most americans are extremely ignorant when it comes to history or geography and since even the majority of white people from latin america look diiferent than your average american who is of northern european stock, while your average white person from latin america is of southern european stock, americans could see a difference between themselves and those who were coming from latin america, even those who are of european extract and thus thought of people from latin america as one race (although one should see how confused most americans get or even mexican americans get when someone from latin america is either of northern euopean decent or of purly african decent this totally confuses them and they refer to that person as "dark or light skinned" or "he's latin but he looks black" Many americans think that everybody in latin america is a native of some sort and this is somewhat perpetuated by being so close to mexico, where even the white elite celebrates the native culture and pretends to be part of it. (most likely for thier own survival). In fact many mexican americans who are mostly the decendents of middle and lower class mestizos from smaller towns where almost everybody else is mestizo, are shocked when you tell them not only are there many different races in latin america, but even in mexico one of the more homogeneos countries in latin america there are actually black mexicans in certain coastal areas....

Hahahaha you are very funny.
The idea of lations as a race was not an invention of the north americans, but a CHOICE of these immigrants.
For the last two centuries they built up this concept because they felt that it could give them advantages.
You are probably right.... in a society where anything other than "pure" white is considered inferior race (and this just started to slowly change on the second half of the last century), deliberately portraiting itself as a different race makes a lot of sense.
Also, the economical advantages and social assistance to these minorities get (affirmative actions) is not at all measures of the organized civil society, the government and human right association that started to flourish mainly in the last century. It is clearly something that has always existed, since the beginning of the immigration phenomenon, theree centuries ago. And that is why since that period of History tons of mexicans and others from below the Rio Grande migrated to the US and came up with this plan, this huge scheme to get the whites to acknoweledge them as a different race: to anjoy the affirmative actions that would end up being developed dozens of decades later as a desperate measure to correct the social exclusion.
Mexicans and "latinos" are very smart people. Back in the 18th century they already knew how history would unfold... they knew that after a few generations had been ignored, sooner or later the "affirmative actions" (a concept that didn't then exist as such) would appear to give them a consolation.
Being stigmatized for at least a hundred years and deliberately claiming to be a different race (as History shows us is what they have done) was just part of a big plan to earn minority scolarships to their grandsons generations later.
Seriously, I think you should present your thesis to a social sciences or History magazine! :-)

I never claimed that that mexicans or people from latin america were not always discriminated against, I simply claimed that when they started to emmigrate "en mass" and the question there was a time in the 1960 and 70's that affirmative action was starting the term "latino" and "hispanic" were invented to use not just by anglos but by civil rights ini the "latino" community as well. The term "latino" was not used before this time. Before this time a person from latin america had to choose what race they were black, white ect. but this didnt mean they were not descriminated against even if they were white. But that didn't exclude them from being white just like the irish, italians and jews were descriminated agains even though they were considered white. Before the 1960's latino was not considered a seperate race, although I would never argue that people from latin america were not descriminated against before then. I'm talking about the reasons of why both amercans and americans who are descendents from latin america are confused into thinking of latino as a race.

"I'm not Brazilian; so let's not start jumping on my critical comments" my guess is you are jewish!!!

Why would you guess that?

Another good article by Mr Fitzpatrick.

The Brazilians have an ability to ‘absorb’ all person wishing to come and live in Brazil and over time will take parts of a culture they like and ‘Brazilianise it.

The ‘race obsessed’ British are capable of doing the same. As an example Indian curry is the most popular dish in the UK.

If any one is interested the British interest in race maybe due to being four nations in one, English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh. In recent years we have come to celebrate our own identities in the context of a single ‘United Kingdom’ though our history is one of ‘bloody’ hatred. So even within our own borders we think our own ancestry is important. In truth most English people have Irish, Welsh and Scottish blood but there is still a fierce rivalry with sport.

To add to the ‘mix’ we now have other ‘exotic’ foreigners coming from what was once the ‘British Empire’, about a third of the world, and other countries, all are welcome though at the moment we can still be prone to sub-divide into British Moslem, British Asian, Black British and British White. I detest all these terms preferring the term ‘British’, much simpler. I will not go into other issues such as the Moslem Council of Britain, British Asian Council and others. In reality everyone is entitled to have there own identity, though as in Brazil do so as a Brazilian.

I know it is easy to look at other cultures and only see the surface, but with Brazil the perception is that Brazil has one of the most integrated populations in the world, everyone is accepted regardless of race and religion. Though I understand that there is about 146 terms for different skin colour. Brazilians will also call each other what would be termed racial terms as a description, ‘Blackie’, ‘Mulatto’ and others that I will not repeat. Pele’s nickname in the Brazilian squad was ‘The Negro’.

I think it is wonderful that despite the problems in the middle east, whatever your view, the Semitic communities in Brazil live in harmony and it would seem do not understand or want anything to do with the problems elsewhere. In the UK there are individuals preaching hate against other faiths and races, this is rightly being looked badly upon.

I hope that Brazil continues to live in harmony and be an example to the world that peoples of different origins can co-exist, there maybe problems with poverty and violence but Brazilians are just Brazilians and can overcome these.

MT in UK

"the Semitic communities in Brazil live in harmony"

Semites are anti integration, and ought to be included outside of racism

I am sorry, I will change the term 'Semitic' to 'Sons of Abraham'. I was only trying to make a point that Jews and Arabs and/or moslems are living in more or less the same community in Brazil with no problems.

The Semitic people founded Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In short the faiths the article is refering too.

What about all the Al Queda guys living near Iguacu Falls? Is that why the USA just opened a military base in Paraguay? I net you havent heard about that on CNN. 10% of Brazil population is muslim.

And by the way. That thing on their heads is not a towel!! So please for political correctness sake dont call them towel heads!!!

It is a little sheet!! So please folks from now on if you could please be politically correct and refer to them in the right way:

"Little Sheet Heads" ;-)

10% of brazils population is not muslim. It has been quoted that 10% are of middle east ancestary and even if that controversial figure is true the majority are actually christian. As for the base in paraguay, that is simply a rumor. There is no evidence to back up even the US intention of building a base there. I would never rule out the possibility, with this US administration, but the fact remains as for now there is no base in paraguar nor solid plans to build one.

.........umm wellll....YOU SHOULD PUT MORE THINGS LIKE THE CLOTHING OF BRAZIL WHAT IT MEAN AND EVERYTHING.....but everything else is awsome!!!

Thatis why i love Brazil.. why u may ask, it is becasue people from every part of this earth have set roots in brazil.. Euorpeans, Africans, Europens, Middle easterns, and Asian/Paficic Islanders..People in the US always want to cateriorize something, but when u got to brazil you are a brazilian no matter your back.. I think america needs to rethink their version of a "MELTING POT'' of people and look at brazil...Brazil is the real melting pot of this planet.. No where else in the world would u find a german brazilian dating a african/japanese gurl, driving an american car, eating at french resturante, but only in brazil can u find that.. People can talk all they want to about brazil, but i really have to tell them go to brazil see how we live.. Brazilian hardly hear words like racist, or racism,.. We were never seperated becasue of our orgins, we never had to ride sepreate buses, etc..so what if a black person in brazil makes lower wage than a white man.. IT IS THE SAME s**t HERE IN AMERICA.......Brazilians come here and are amazed why people are fit into one group, when we could fit in serveral groups... I think that Americans SHOULD LEARN THAT BRAZIL, 1. HAS THE LARGEST AFRICAN POPLUATION OUTSIDE OF AFRICA, 2. THE LRAGEST ASIAN POPULATION OUTSIDE OF ASIA... and my grandma ( who is pratices Candomble) dislike who african-americans, havent no clue to true african roots... brazilains have ( in my opion) wanted to preserve things like this.. and never stirrped there culutre, and cover with something that is not ture......


BRASIL....Um Pais de TODOS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT IS THE BEST SAYING EVER......

it was to long

as written by guest above,
now there is credit that should be given to the Portuguese to allow all of that mixing, but i guess in typical brazilian fashion, they can't do that, it's against their morals, thie rstill going around with their lemon faces, because they can't even appreciate the fact that they wouldn't exist if that wasn't allowed.

i think arabs are nice poeple and arabs in brazil are very successful poeple . for the issue of jews and arabs . ithink arabs did not heart jews which they are killed by germans which the are white poeple and christains . but jews came to arab area and made ahome in killing arab poeple . at the end i want to tell jews that they will be kikked our of middle east at the end and americans and europeans will not be able to help them . when jews send money to isreal which kills plastines poeple everyday childrens and old poeple it is ok for the world and stuiped americans but when arabs send money to help their poeple it is wrong . any one can tell me what world we are living on .
at the end we will take our land back from i sreales and we will revinge to our children killed we promise the honest poeple in the whole world .
written by an arab from kuwait .

Jews speak a common language and share ethnic features, heritage, they are indeed a race-Judaism is the religion that the race practices. That is a fact. Their is even a disease that is primarily only found in the Jewish race-Tay Sachs. Jews are very powerful and have perpetrated the myth that they are "raceless" people for survival reasons. They have been targets of hate and disdain for centuries. Admitting to belonging to any race outside of white is very limiting at best and could easily open one up to attacks of all sorts. (white is the only race Jews claim to be) If Jews are not a race then neither are whites(that is taking the failed logic to it's most extreme)