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Lula Hits Back at Brazilian Congress PDF Print E-mail
2006 - August 2006
Written by John Fitzpatrick   
Wednesday, 09 August 2006 10:13

Brazilian CongressDisgust is probably the best word to sum up the Brazilian electorate's view of the current Congress which is so mired in sleaze and corruption that it has virtually given up passing legislation and spends its time investigating never-ending scandals.

The evidence of widespread participation by Congressmen in a variety of scams is such that very few Brazilian voters can have any faith in the honesty and integrity of their representatives. It is almost impossible to follow the ins and outs of the ongoing scandals at federal, state and municipal level.

Last year's "bribes for votes" scandal, which virtually destroyed the PT and its reputation for honesty, was only an opener for many others. The latest Congressional scandal involves allegations that about 112 Congressmen (20% of the total) received payments from an ambulance company which supplied vehicles at inflated prices to local authorities after the Congressmen had used their influence to free the resources to pay for them.

Sixty mayors and a former health minister are also alleged to have been in on the act. An official Congressional committee, known as a CPI, has been investigating the affair but it has attracted none of general interest which the CPI into last year's scandal created, in its initial stages at least. The public does not seem to be interested.

The other latest scandal concerns the state of Rondônia where practically every top official - including the chairman of the legislative assembly, the president of the main court, the vice-president of the body which looks after the public accounts, the former state prosecutor and the running mate of the state governor - was arrested. 

They are all accused of being part of a gang which has skimmed off 100 million reais (about US$ 36 million) from public funds. The investigation found that only one of the 24 members of the state legislative assembly was not accused of involvement in the scheme.

Complicated Voting System

These are big cases which hit the headlines but they are repeated at every level of public administration. Faced with such in-built corruption what can the voter do?  Voters could respond by voting for other parties and candidates but this will not make much difference. Under the voting system, voters do not actually choose an independent representative as they do in, say, a UK parliamentary election.

Voting for the main executive positions - president, state governors and mayors of large cities - is by a simply majority. but things are very different in terms of voting for members of the House of Representatives. A system is used in which the number of valid votes cast is divided by the number of seats the state is entitled to. This gives a figure known as the quotient which is used to divide the total number of votes. This results in the number of seats per party.

This system can leads to great distortions since an extremely popular candidate can give other candidates from his party a helping hand. In 2002, for example, Enéas Carneiro of the PRONA party won 1.5 million votes in São Paulo and by doing so managed to gain five extra seats for candidates who had received less votes than other candidates.     

An alternative way of showing displeasure is to spoil the ballot paper or cast a blank vote. This may seem extreme but, since voting in Brazil is compulsory, it is the only way out for those who want nothing to do with any individual candidate or party. The percentage of voters who either did not turn up at the polling station or spoiled or left the ballot paper blank in the last three presidential elections came to 19% and 16% respectively.  

There have been calls by disgruntled electors for voters to spoil or leave their votes blank in a kind of symbolic boycott but there is no organized group or lobby which makes this a serious possibility. Having said that, we can expect a higher abstention rate in the congressional than in the presidential and state governorship elections.

There are signs that President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva is aware of this dissatisfaction with the legislature. He recently suggested that a Constitutional Assembly should be established to examine political reform. Lula said that deep political reform was necessary and raised doubts about the ability of Congressmen to reform their own house. He said society as a whole should examine the matter.

Political Reform

The idea was generally rejected as being unconstitutional or just an electoral ploy to distract attention from the ongoing investigations intro corruption among parties which back the government. However, support came from an unusual corner - Veja magazine which is normally vehemently opposed to the President and the PT. The magazine suggested it was an idea worth considering and said it could lead to urgent reforms being made in other areas such as the taxation and social security system.

There are three basic areas which any such Constitutional Assembly would examine - ensuring party loyalty by candidates to end the present system of switching parties almost at will, public financing of election campaigns and ending the system by which Congressmen can interfere in the budget and table amendments to gain additional resources. 

It is unlikely that this idea will take off, but by raising it Lula has shown that he is a lot more astute than many of his opponents imagine. It also shows how he is distancing himself further from the legislature and the parties.

It would not surprise me to see Lula more or less abandon the PT if, as is likely, he wins a next term of office. Lula will use his second term to try and influence or groom his successor and he knows the PT has little chance of winning the 2010 election.

John Fitzpatrick is a Scottish writer and consultant with long experience of Brazil. He is based in São Paulo and runs his own company Celtic Comunicações. This article originally appeared on his site www.brazilpoliticalcomment.com.br. He can be contacted at jf@celt.com.br.

© John Fitzpatrick 2006



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Comments (59)Add Comment
\"Lula has shown that he is a lot more astute than many of his opponents imagine\"
written by Stephanie, August 09, 2006
Indeed, and unfortunately, lots of Brazilians still think he is a man for the poor, someone who will rescue our country from poverty and hunger. He has already shown what he is here for and we must tell everybody who will vote for him, through a strong and efficient Educational system, what our country has become and hope they will see the truth.
Some comments
written by Hm, August 10, 2006
I would say claiming that "bribes-for-votes destroyed the PT" is an overstatement, and that, from a petista point of view, blaming Congress for the morass is part of the solution; it favors the perception that the whole system, rather than the PT itself, is to blame. I believe corruption levels have not fluctuated that much (compared to, say, the Collor or FHC eras), and that the PT's so-called 'hegemonism' in handing out the pork has merely introduced more entropy into the system. Noisy burblings such as Jeffersoninan histrionics, CPIs full of sscreaming, pseudo-indignant representatives, etc., are just consequences.

Furthermore, the PTs rep**ation for honesty does not stand up to scrutiny, and has never done so. Anyone having dealt with their state and municipality administrations in the 80's, 90's or later can confirm this. They have always played the patrimonialistic pork game like everyone else.

The Lula-PT dichotomy has always existed, and was already apparent when Lula barred left-wing students from attending workers' rallies. The scenario presented at the end of the article (i.e., Lula and the PT coming further apart) is pretty plausible, but I think that whether the PT's fabric will rip further apart is anyone's guess. My theory is that the PT'S "glue" is the knowledge that such a ripping apart would be a negative sum game for them all.

Regarding this new Constitutional Assembly thing, I remember the old caveat of Latin American "constitutionalitis"; i.e., one knows how a Constituinte starts, but now how it ends. It is, by nature, a risky undertaking, and not really a substitute for Congress actually passing out legislation as it is supposed to.

FInally, regarding Lula's astuteness, I always remember that, to quote a quip about the late president Dutra "he is President of the Republic, I (and the hordes of armchair ideologues of whatever pesuasion) am not and will never get there".
This just shows.......
written by ch.c., August 10, 2006
....how the country politicians AND SOCIETY are corrupted to the roots.
Not one senator or congressman has not been involved in one corruption, but all in many corruptions.
Brazilian politicians have no respect for those who elected them.
The society is also expecting to participate one way or another to be also a receiver of the corruption !

Politicians have no desire to have an educated society that can think and act......if the society would understand how raped they were/are and will be for the next 2 centuries....minimum !
Corruption or red tape whatever way are in the blood of Brazilians.
It is in your genes.

Brazil is a medieval country with a medieval thinking and archaïc society.
You just excel in corruption and asking favor after favor to richer and better organized nations.
Reciprocity and fairness is never in your trade negotiations and is not more applied between yourselves within your own society.
Brazil is a developing country that has a relatively high GDP per capita, but has the highest poverty rate in the WORLD when compared to this GDP per capita. Everything for a few......and the rests for the vast majority is the motto of the way your country was/is and will be administered and managed.
TAXES, TAXES, TAXES, BUREAUCRACY BUREAUCRACY AND MORE BUREAUCRACY, HIGH WAGES AND PENSIONS BENEFITS FOR GOVERNMENT WORKERS AND PENSIONEERS IS THE CHORD THAT ASPHYXIATE YOU.


BUT YOU DO NOTHING TO CHANGE FOR THE BETTER.

Just look at your peers, the other developing countries. They all, without exception, beat you on economic growth, education, infrastructure, low cost housing, healthcare, wealth re-distribution.....just to name a few.

You are at the queue or near it in many many rankings, but listening to the crooks amnd liars that you elected.....everything is rosier, rosier by the day.

And being so smart, what will you do ? Most probably re-elect the same people !

Isnt that great ? Doesnt it show that either you are stupid or that you have no hope for a better future ?

Reality....reality....is very sad in Brazil ! Unfortunate that you dont copy those who are successful....but do just the opposite of what they do !!!!!
Brazil has been a country for the future....for the last 2 centuries ! And after 2 centuries of failures after failures.....you are at the starting block : a country for the future !!!!!! At every rosier moments you already said in the past......this time it is sustainable.....but you have been wrong every time !
When will you become an adult and developed country with rules of laws applied and not just written but not applied ?

Permanent talking and promises.....will remain talking and promises for the eternity....in Brazil !
You are so proud to export US$ 44 billions of agricultural products.......instead of being ashamed to NOT feed your own society first ! Where is the common sense and your own human justice in doing so ?

A tragedy !
Re: This just shows.......
written by Truth, August 10, 2006
Man, you do a great job for all of us. Brazilians need that really, they need reality thrown into their faces, just the way it happened to me.

I would just take care with comments like "it's in your genes". I hope you have written that in a figurative manner. I wouldn't say it's in the genes of brazilians, who are formed by several people from everywhere in the world, but I would say that's one thing inherent to brazilian culture. And unfortunatelly I must say, idiots tend to give birth to idiots and corrupts tend to give birth to corrupts. That'll be the education those brazilians will receive at home. Really, I don't see much hope for this country.
in your genes.....
written by ch.c., August 10, 2006
yesss it is figurative....only up to a certain point, unfortunately. I should have said it is in you culture and education....the corruption. You became addicted to it, so much that nothing is done without it. Just look at your bureaucracy and the red tape. Your federal/states/municipals and governmental agencies employees "find" normal that a service provided must be retribuated "somewhat"......with side money.....on top of their already high wages !
There was an article on this subject in this same site a few months ago !
Look at your police dept who expect a kickback when they make road controls....even if you did nothing wrong !
Thus paying paying a "dime" to everyone involved and "representing" the government is the daily lifestyle in Brazil.
Thus saying corruption is in your genes is unfortunately not that wrong.
You cant live without it or otherwise something is missing !!!!
Without getting a kickback you dont feel to have done a good job.
And it became so normal to you, that you simply re-elect the same people who have stolen your own money for their own benefits. Because afterall the government money....is yours.....not theirs.

Is that not great ? They steal Your money....you know it......you are not happy.......but you congratulate them by re-electing them !

What a great common sense !

Finally no one in this planet is born idiot....contrary to what you say. But many become idiot through the education and culture in which he has grown !
But please dont interpret this incorrectly. The corrupted people are not idiots ! They are smart since they even create laws that wont punish them if found guilty. They dont go to the Justice and the Justice cannot punish them......since they are judged by their peers politicians....as much corrupted themselves and worse.....in a secret vote.... !!!!!

It is like if you ask the PCC chiefs if they should punish those who ordered and those who made the various chaos and killings is SP !!!! And the same as if the Brazilian society will vote to elect the PCC chiefs ! No difference !

A true joke....full of contradictions....and total lack of common sense !

Cheers
brazil has no hope
written by Joseph, August 10, 2006
smilies/shocked.gif Just want to throw an idea out there, lets' divide brazil up into more manageable slices where the politicians must face the rath of the voters, rather than hiding in Brasilia in the big Brazilian inteiror. If politicians had to face their voters on a daily basis, maybe they would be more afraid. But then again, maybe not....look at Rio and SP
...
written by Truth, August 10, 2006
Finally no one in this planet is born idiot....contrary to what you say.

Well, now that was my turn. It's not that they are born idiots, but their parents make them idiots. Yeah, that's really part of the brazilian culture. You completely hit the point, that's what Brazil is all about really.
politicians facing the voters daily !
written by ch.c., August 10, 2006
Looks like you did read the subject of the above article.....for the corrupted people in Rondonia. In Brazil corruption is everywhere.....wherever you look at ! In audits done, in over 70 % of the municipalities there is CORRUPTION, missing money, unaccountable money or overcharging bills !
For your info some "experts" estimate that in your country between 5 to 10 % of your all GDP is wiped out through corruption one way or another.Knowing that your country has a GDP of around US$ 800 billions when taking in account also the informal sector, the amount of corruption is thus between US$ 40 to 80 billions !!!!!!! Yearly.....of course !

Far more than the whole budget for your different Bolsas, education, healthcare, infrastructure and low cost housing COMBINED !!!!!!!!

Not small by any standard !

But as I said........your lack of common sense makes that you will re-elect the same people who steal YOIUR money !
And that is where I no longer follow and understand the Brazilian mentality !!!!!!
Just to substantiate...the previous comment.....
written by ch.c., August 10, 2006
That corruption in Brazil is everywhere and more a lifestyle involving not only the politicians but everyone, and not only in Brasilia, Rio or SP :
Today news :
Brazil arrests 46 in logging crackdown
General Sources
Police arrested 46 people, including 16 agents of the federal environmental protection agency, for allegedly operating illegal logging operations in the Amazon...
...
written by ch.c., August 10, 2006
....even Federal prosecutor Joaquim Gomes de Oliveira was arrested in the above crackdown !!!!!!!! Yessssssss......A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR !!!!!!!!

BE PROUD OF HIM AND THE ACCOMPLISHMENT OF HIS ACHIEVEMENTS IN HIS JOB !!!!!!!!!

Another Giant Pizza will be made....very shortly ! This guy wont stay in jail for long and he will never be found guilty ! do you bet ?
...
written by Truth, August 11, 2006
This guy wont stay in jail for long and he will never be found guilty ! do you bet ?

I guess you are being too optimistic here my friend, as he probably won't be even in jail. See Lalau and PC Farias cases smilies/smiley.gif
...
written by a guest, August 11, 2006
Corruption isn't acceptable or wanted in any culture, but it exists in varying degrees in every culture due to the capability/incapability of the state to enforce laws. Corruption is rampant in Brazil because people can get away with it. If they are ever caught they are not prosecuted and if they are prosecuted the punishment is minimal. The judiciary which is slow and inefficient allows for corruption.
...
written by Truth, August 11, 2006
The above guest has stated a good statement. In order to stop corruption, corruption must be harshly punished in a *system* thought and designed to it. But this system derives also from culture and unfortunately, our people at the top don't have a culture to stop it. Nor do our people at the bottom, who are also used to corruption and will corrupt whenever they get to the top (do I need to cite an example here? smilies/smiley.gif). That's why I don't see many ways out. Brazil has a system that should be just thrown away and started over, and the new system should be designed under a culture of transparency and honesty. Unless there is some major disruption like the one that happened in UK prior to industrial revolution, or like the one that happened in the US prior to their independence (there are some minor examples too, but those are the most important), I wouldn't expect that much. Our country, as well as the whole Latin America, will be always going from a crisis to another, with small and weak periods of prosperity and calm. Most of all, latin americans need to reform their characters to make some change.

But don't feel too bad about it fellow brazilians. The normal, in the world, is having things in disorder. Societies where things work fine, like the US or Japan are an exception, and it's even worse if you look at history. Even so, US and Japan always have pressure of some groups to concede them privileges at the expense of the others. And there are many countries worse off than Brazil. That doesn't mean, however, that we must sit down and be conformed with that situation. We must look at the examples of the best countries and societies and adopt *proven* practices to design the system for our society. I will give you some tips of what those proven practices are: free market, free speech, mininal government, few laws, individual rights...
...
written by a guest, August 12, 2006
The "bribes for votes" scandal was a fraud. Never happend. These, however, are going somewhere:

"Police arrested 30 businessmen, government officials and soldiers accused of taking part in a scheme to net millions of dollars by over-billing for meals in the military and at schools, officials said Friday.

Ten active-duty servicemen and a retired soldier were among those arrested in the scheme that involved lucrative food-service contacts.

The scheme netted those involved some $157 million over six years, federal police said in a statement.

The arrested faced charges including criminal conspiracy, extortion, money laundering and tax evasion. The arrests were made in six Brazilian states and the federal district that includes the nation's capital, Brasilia.

The food-service contract scheme was just the latest corruption scandal to break in Brazil.

On Wednesday police arrested 46 people, including 16 agents of the federal environmental protection agency, for allegedly operating illegal logging operations in the Amazon rain forest and in southern Brazil.

Meanwhile, Congress on Thursday recommended impeachment proceedings against 72 federal legislators suspected of padding the bills for ambulances sold to city governments."

From the San Jose Mercury News: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld...255227.htm

Go Lula! Get these bums!
MYTH!
written by Batata, August 12, 2006
Hello I agree with some things it was said. Unfortunately I can’t see much of what people, young and adult in Brazil intends to do over reality. Globalization and high technology can lure people’s mind and interest at a point they are not more than responding consumers. Nobody reads much to a depth necessary to the complexity of reality and men.

That said I just have some stuff to write. I understand Lula’s chances of quick win was indeed dropping as the campaign period approached. Under the circumstances of PCC in the middle of the major city of Brazil and the leech scandal of corruption involving almost all political parties is reversing the tendency. No one here would put his hand on fire for Lula and PT, his political party; big chances are that they all, PCC, Lula and PT involved, taking Santo Andre former PT mayor elimination for revolting with PT corruption but the truth needs to be found out and disclosed.

I don’t want to discuss about brazilian society, I think you people cannot know many Brazilians to say what you write or one of you is a teenager and have met only delinquent male teenagers.

Second I still believe it is a MITH, Brazil has more corruption than other countries peaking govt and society. Take this for example, Bush today is a rich man. Laura Bush, his wife, accepts a man who has the past he has, and she helps America being what it is.
“In 1978 Bush with no experience, launches oil exploration company Arbusto Energy Inc. about to go bankrupt when acquired by oil company owned by family friends. In 1986 Bush reportedly receives large amounts in “consultancy” fees after Harken Oil, owned by a Republican supporter, acquires failing Spectrum 7 and wins lucrative contract to drill for oil off Bahrain while his father is president. In 1990 he is suspected of breaking insider trading laws in connection with selling Harken stock at 200 per cent profit shortly before $23.2m drop in profit is announced and stock drops 60 per cent over next six months. SEC, headed by friend of Bush’s father, the then vice-president, finds no evidence that Bush deliberately set out to break rules.
In 1995 Mark Thatcher is suspected of breaking racketeering and fraud laws in connection with acquiring Ameristar, an aviation-fuels company. Case settled after Thatcher’s mother, the former prime-minister, contributes to $ 300,000 settlement fee. Both become involved in dubious scheme to overthrow despotic ruler of oil-rich third world country ( Saddam Hussein, Iraq’s president and Teodoro Obiang, Guinea’s president)”
Never happened...
written by Truth, August 12, 2006
he "bribes for votes" scandal was a fraud. Never happend.

Oh yes! The mensalão never happened! Fellow brazilians, please, to make this story true, forget the speeches given by Duda Mendonça, Marcos Valério, Delúbio Soares, among others to CPI. They were sure out of their mind when they said they were guilty and that mensalão existed. Imagine how delirious they were, they even revealed details about them!
Re: MYTH!
written by Truth, August 12, 2006
What about putting a true corruption case here? What are you wanting to prove? That americans are as corrupt as brazilians? Don't make me laugh. They have their own problems, but first, look at the ammounts involved, most of them do not even reach millions...

suspected of breaking insider trading laws in connection with selling Harken stock at 200 per cent profit shortly before $23.2m drop in profit is announced and stock drops 60 per cent over next six months

The graphical analysis of stocks is based on the fact that there are some fluctuations on the prices of stocks prior to a news going public. If you follow Ibovespa, you'll see that many stocks go both up and down prior to official announcement of results by the companies. Of course such a huge sale of stocks will make some noise in the market and will be detected (supply and demand laws) and, if it starts having a higher volume on sales with prices down, analists will recommend that their clients sell their positions before the break of support. That's what is called a shift from a high tendency to a low tendency. The prices tend to be falling over time, with small periods of high (where the company itself buys back some stock or an investor buys it to strenghten his position, as well as daytraders wanting to make some money on it) but, nonetheless, tend to adjust to prices in accordance to the company's performance, importance in the market and transparence practices.

Would you say that all of graphical analysis is based on dishonest means then? If you say that, you should say that everyone who invests in Bovespa is potentially dishonest, which I strongly disagree.

I would really discuss those "insider information" laws. I can't simply understand why an investor, knowing that something bad is occurring in the business where he put his own money, does not have the right to sell his stocks. That's insane. Let's put this to a very brazilian example: at Cobras & Lagartos 19 o'clock soap opera, that candid wife of Estevao (don't remember her name), who holds 49% of the stocks of Luxus, knows that something really wrong is going about her business. Is it ok to forbid her to sell her stocks and go bankrupt along with her firm?

What about punishing the real bad doers?
Before I forget...
written by Truth, August 12, 2006
Police arrested 30 businessmen

In Brazil, arrested doesn't necessarily mean they will be in jail. They will respond the process in freedom (that's good anyway). If convicted, they may apply for a habbeas corpus. Or may even apply for home imprisonment in case of some alleged health problem. Then, who knows, a relaxation on the prison, so that's it's ok for them to be free, as long as they don't leave the country. Jail? C'mon, jails are only for the poor...
...
written by a guest, August 13, 2006
Lula was fully investigated and proven to be clean! You Lula haters make me laugh! smilies/grin.gif But these rotten busnessmen and other politicians are the problem. We need more honest people like Lula! Down with the corrupt businessmen and politicians in Brazil Viva Lula!
...
written by a guest, August 13, 2006
No one ever said the mensalão existed, except that crook Jefferson, who was an obvious liar and corrupt politician from the start, under the control of corrupt, wealthy businessmen. You Lula haters are a joke, making up stories. The mensalão was investigated and the result: Never happened! Suck on that! smilies/grin.gif
...
written by a guest, August 13, 2006
The opposition has done a bang up job running São Paulo! You have the political crooks running the government, along side the corrupt businessmen, and the PCC running the prisons and the streets. The poor and middle class are stuck in the middle. Of course, they blame Lula, but then don't accept federal assitance, just to spite him. I pitty the Paulistas.
...
written by Horst, August 13, 2006
Jefferson said that politicians were paid R$30.000 per month, i.e., the mensalão, for votes. That was not proven to be true. There were proven campaing funding illegalities and other acts of corruption, but these affected nearly every party. Jefferson was, for the most part, full of it. You'll see a lot of misinformation about this on the web, which mostly just assumes that the mensalão was a fact. It is not. But there clearly is and was corruption, just not how Jefferson said it existed. After all, Jefferson was caught red handed himself, which is why he (successfully) turned attention away from his own corruption with his mensalão allegations. More importantly, there has been greater attention on corruption in Brazil, as shown by the recent arrests. But Lula has done more to prosecute corruption than anyone before him. Brazil has a long way to go. But don't we all?
Workers\' Party militants (petistas) make me laugh...
written by Truth, August 13, 2006
Well, looks like we have a petista militant here! It's evident that the 4 posts were done by the same person! Take a look, my fellow foreigners! He's trying to fool you just the way they fooled the entire Brazil! The mensalão scandal was never proven, but people accused of being part of it have confessed! You know, some people, when faced by accusations, tend to agree with them, because they are insecure or timid. They don't know how to lie and can't stand the pressure. They don't have many arguments to get out of the situation and then bow to what their accusers are saying in the hope of relieving the pressure. Of course, polticians in high government ranks are among those kinds of people, for they lack the skills of lying, defending their points of view and so on, poor boys ...

Another evidence of him being a petista militant is the way he throws the guilty of what's happening in São Paulo to their opposers. Always trying to get away of it. It's always fault of the corrupted businessmen, the corrupted other politicians, the governor of the adversary party... never their fault!

And yet another evidence are the 4 posts! Petistas have a tendency to talk too much and not let their opponents talk. They shout, they want to impose their opinions. Hopefully, 4 posts in the Internet don't have the same effect, and we can always reply to them without being interrupted.

Just consider one thing fellow foreigners. Suppose you are the shareholders of a company. Now suppose the entire director's board is involved in fraud. They were all pointed by the president and are 20 or 30 years-long friends of him. Would you still trust this president? (I got this example from here: http://rodrigoconstantino.blog...ional.html)
...
written by Batata, August 14, 2006
Just some stupid foreigners can come to a Brazilian site and say that Lula is innocent. Go watch your stupid TV series. Americans are a truly laugh!!!!"!"!!!
...
written by Truth, August 14, 2006
Might be that the guy of the 4 posts is foreigner, but I think that's unlikely. He sounds more like one of those people that PT hired to reply to every blog and forum on the Internet in order to negate the accusations and drive political support to Lula.
...
written by a guest, August 15, 2006
For any human to state that mensalão didn't exist is as absurd for someone to state there is no war in iraq. More than 40 ministers, congressmen, and heads of banks resigned or were removed from their positions.

And as far as comparing corruption in the U.S. and brazil, give me a break. Corruption does exist in the U.S., as it does in all countries, but can not hold a candle to brazil in the vastness of the corruption. Corruption in brazil is a plauge, and is NOT the exception to the rule, it IS the rule. One really gets sick of hearing every single week of new corruption scandals on all levels of govt, municipal, state, federal.

A recent survey was conducted and civil servants were asked if they thought it was wrong to "expedite" a certain request in return for a gift, the vast majority answered NO!!!!

The vast majority of people here don't even realize that it IS corruption, because its so commonplace and looked at as "business as usual".
Re: brazil has no hope
written by Brazilian2, August 15, 2006
"Just want to throw an idea out there, lets' divide brazil up into more manageable slices where the politicians must face the rath of the voters..."

This is probably one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. Brazil was this big by time you were "going west", destroying it would make nothing but to transform a great country in many meaningless Caribean-like little islands.

The spanish speaking people are not good in their heads, that's why they are a bunch of small crappy countries. But Brazil's richness is directly related for it being great in size.
Re: brazil has no hope
written by Truth, August 16, 2006
Do you still care about our country remaining united? Do you believe that US, Europe or some other insignificant nation would invade one of those small countries and turn their people into slaves?

Dividing is a good idea. I want mine to develop like Curaçao or Cayman Islands. If the rest of the small countries welcome the damn commies who dominate us nowadays, as long as some friend or relative is not there, I don't give a damn. Brazilians deserve it, afterall.
the US is fractured
written by Brazilian2, August 16, 2006
I can only assume you aren't brazilian. Dividing never was and never will be strength, that was the tactic Caesar used to conquer Galia, wasn't it? Division is the fastest way to become irrelevant, just like many little central american countries whose economy is not diversified enough. They depend almost exclusively from one activity and usually this activity is tied to bigger nations.

Why Brazil is the biggest economy in the region and this economy DOESN'T depend solely on the US? Because we are big in size, in resources, in people, etc. Not even Canada can say the same, most of Canada and Mexico economies depend on the US.

Fortunately the people of Brazil has as one of its values the "closeness", and I am talking about Sao Paulo. Such ideas don't even cross their minds or the media, and would be seen as an horrific idea if they did.

And I don't think it ever will. Brazil and brazilians in general has an ability to absorb what comes from outside, either cultural or in terms of population, it's more likely others to become brazilians than brazilians decide to become something else. One thing I found strange is that in Brazil I never heard anyone speaking spanish and in the US they have spanish written even in the buses and spoken on the streets!

If I had to bet, who's going to be "divided" first, I'd say the odds of US to be divided are higher than of Brazil, since its people don't mix, either on the cultural or genetical sense.
Re: the US is fractured
written by Truth, August 16, 2006
No, you got it all wrong. Definitely wrong. You face the central american s**tty countries and think all the world is the same. Take a look at the entire world. Take a look at Hong Kong, Liechtenstein, Taiwan, Netherlands, Switzerland, Singapore... there are plenty of other small countries and territories and many of them have diversified economy. Why? Because they governement that ACTUALLY LETS PEOPLE WORK. And are they insignificant? No way, many of them are even more significant than Brazil in political and economical aspects.

Now look at Latin America: it's stuck from its biggest country, Brazil, to the smallest ones! Ok, Brazil has a more diversified economy, but look at our exports. Look at our high tech sector, it's inexistent.

Instead of you pretending that I'm american, what about stopping thinking in collectivist terms of country and start thinking in terms of INDIVIDUALS? INDIVIDUALS work in different thing IF THEIR GOVERNMENT ALLOWS THEM, and does not cheat them by imposing high taxes and prohibitive regulations, while issuing subsidies for what they think it's important. Do you say I'm wrong? Then look again at the structure of government in those other countries. Countries become rich and strong when their individuals have autonomy.

I would really like to see Brazil united and rich. That was what I was thinking some 1 year ago. But that feeling is fading over time. Now, when I look at my country, I can only feel disgust. So I don't care about it anymore. There is no point in wanting a place with some 90% of idiots, cheaters or a combination of both to be rich and peaceful. The other brazilians, as well as the other latin americans, really deserve to suffer the consequences of their attitudes. They are buying it, afterall.
Re: the US is fractured
written by Brazilian2, August 16, 2006
"Take a look at Hong Kong, Liechtenstein, Taiwan, Netherlands, Switzerland, Singapore... there are plenty of other small countries and territories and many of them have diversified economy. Why? Because they governement that ACTUALLY LETS PEOPLE WORK. And are they insignificant? No way, many of them are even more significant than Brazil in political and economical aspects."

You are oversimplifying it to the extreme. Lots of smaller countries MAY ("may" is not the same as "will" as in a certainty) provide better quality of life for its people, but that doesn't mean they are more significant in "political in economical aspects". Being big is a prerequisite to be relevant. The US wouldn't have the muscles to be the superpower it is if it were 1/10th of its actual size.

"Now, when I look at my country, I can only feel disgust. So I don't care about it anymore."

A piece of advice, move out of Brazil then and never come back. The solution is simple, you see. There's no destroying anything just because you don't like it.

And after all your rant you couldn't justify why you think it should be divided. The idea is so ludicrous, it's the final step towards doom, the maximum acknowledgement of incompetence. If we lived in a perfect world I would agree with you, but the world is s**t. Seeing things through this point of view I believe we are way better than most.
...
written by Truth, August 16, 2006
A piece of advice, move out of Brazil then and never come back.

You may say a lot of nonsense, but at least you are good on reading my thoughts: I am preparing to move from here and I hope I will never get back. Let Brazil remain for the likes of you. Ah, and take care about your car, there are lots of thefts out there. And keep that electrical fence around your house, you never know when some bandit is about to rob you...

Being big is a prerequisite to be relevant
Really? Was England big when it was the biggest empire in the world? France? Of course, being big and populous is important, but that's not enough. You see, Brazil has less international commerce than England, less than France, less than Hong Kong, less than Switzerland and the list goes on. In short, our country is insignificant. Our GNP is smaller than Mexican. Even smaller than Canada, that is a piece of ice with a fraction of brazilian population! Even smaller than South Korea! China was always big and only now it's important. Even so, no more than the US, with about 4 times the population. The same for India. No son, being big is not really a prerequisite. It's important and is not a prerequisite.

Even so, why do I care about Brazil being important? To have to fight other nations and being afraid of terrorism? No. I just want to live in a wealthy and peaceful place, where I don't have to fear having my integrity threatened by the others, which doesn't help in Brazil. The country needs only to be strong enough to disencourage invasion by other nations. That's important.
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written by Truth, August 16, 2006
oops.. correcting.
It's important and is not a prerequisite. -> it's important BUT not a prerequisite.
...
written by Truth, August 16, 2006
which doesn't help in Brazil. -> which doesn't happen
Re: ...
written by Brazilian2, August 16, 2006
"Really? Was England big when it was the biggest empire in the world? France? Of course, being big and populous is important, but that's not enough. You see, Brazil has less international commerce than England, less than France, less than Hong Kong, less than Switzerland...."

Oops, I stopped there. You generalizations are simply stupid. First you say Brazil should be "divided" for no apparent reason, just something you took out of your head, and then you grab the whole human history for the last , say, 500 years, and compress it in a few lines, with imprecise statistics and very vague terms.

If you want to flip burgers and be hated somewhere else, good luck. As a friend of mine said, he was raised in the US, "it doens't matter how long you live there, you will never be one of them".
...
written by Truth, August 17, 2006
Ha! Come with arguments. You said my arguments are simple and my terms were vague? Prove it. Prove your point.You said that being big is a prerequisite for being significant and I showed you a lot of other examples of small countries that were significant. Just because the US are today the most powerful country of the world you say that proves something? And just tell me: why does South Korea has a GNP larger than ours? You are good on sarcasm, but I want to see you arguing with facts, ok?

And listen kid, Brazil has no condition to be a world super power (you sure wish it eh?). Not even the slightest chance to succeed, as Roberto Campos put it. Brazil hasn't even the conditions to keep PCC out of action and still wants to have a permanent seat in UN's Security Council. That's laughable, to say the least. Brazil has the conditions to be only a soccer superpower, even so, controversial. Forget about the rest.

If you want to flip burgers and be hated somewhere else, good luck. As a friend of mine said, he was raised in the US, "it doens't matter how long you live there, you will never be one of them".

I don't expect to be one of them. Never expected that. And I don't expect to be one of you either, as I'm not. Just the fact that I was born here says nothing. I don't identify myself with you, understand? Yet, that shows how evil our country is. There are 2 millions of brazilians in the US, most of them illegals. The 2nd largest illegal population there. Not to mention other brazilians who FLED to other countries. Brazilians who want to be something in their lives don't find room here, unless they know some politician. And yet, they go there in fragile conditions and have better life conditions than here. That's extremely evil. Just because of a small group of people, supported by idiots like you, they can't stay here with their families and friends. That's very sad, son.

Yeah, I'm going out, probably to flip burgers. Many friends of mine have gone out to flip burgers and things like that. But they are happy. They are telling me to forget about Brazil and go there. The job may not be good, but they get more money and keep the rewards of their work, contrary of here. All of them hold university diplomas. Just like me. I didn't pay university, I'm graduated at a federal one. Some idiots paid the price for my education back then, but I'm repaying for it now with taxes after taxes and unemployment in an area that's desperate after professionals abroad. You probably don't know what that unemployment is, you probably work for the government and are happy about you s**tty wheelie and your electric fenced house. What makes me happy about going away is that I won't be paying taxes to keep lazy people like you anymore. And as the time goes by, there will be even less... that makes me happy...

... but, if you are not a government worker, then you're an idiot, to say the least. You must enjoy paying taxes and receving nothing in exchange. Ah, there is a third option. You might be the owner of a company that's a government contractor. Then you are not an idiot, you're just an exploiter of the brazilian people. Whatever are the alternatives, I'm not one of the likes of you really. No way.
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written by a guest, August 17, 2006
"Just some stupid foreigners can come to a Brazilian site and say that Lula is innocent. "

No, that's what the BRAZILIAN investigation found, dumbass. Viva Lula! Sorry, you pathetic clown, but Lula will win. Stop your crying or go home to mamãe.
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written by a guest, August 17, 2006
PS The mensalão was not proven. Fact. Stop your crying now, bebezinho.
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written by Truth, August 17, 2006
That's as I say fellow brazilians... Brazil is dominated by scumbags. The above poster is an example of that. Get out while you can do it swiftly and take most of your possessions with you.

Let Brazil remain for those petistas and PCC thugs. Let them kill each other. Then we get back to rebuild the country...
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written by Truth, August 17, 2006
PS The mensalão was not proven. Fact. Stop your crying now, bebezinho.

He's right foreigners.. the mensalão was not proven (despite the fact that suspects confessed and revealed details on how it was done). Just like it was not proven that Collor commited any "mistake" of corruption (perhaps those scumbags from Workers' Party, CUT and UNE should ask their apologies to Collor then, following this line of thought :lolsmilies/smiley.gif. It's also not proven that Marcola is the leader of PCC, as it's not even proven that such an organization like PCC exists. The justice that did not prove those facts is the same that did not prove that criminals who were released for Mothers' Day were dangerous...

That's what Brazil is all about. You just have something proven against you if you are not smart nor have good friends.
Hey guest
written by Batata, August 18, 2006
Just some stupid foreigners can come to a Brazilian site and say that Lula is innocent.

"No, that's what the BRAZILIAN investigation found, dumbass. Viva Lula! Sorry, you pathetic clown, but Lula will win. Stop your crying or go home to mamãe."

Yes, yes I cry and go to mamãe but mamãe just kick my ass, wanna cry? If mamãe does that I don't even need to mention papai...

I am a bebezinho and I need a lap!!!

Just because the involved criminals said there has been no mensalão, there has been mensalao in fact. Why you gringo support Lula? I bet you people make a lot of investiment money in Brazil. I believe that if life allows it, then go ahead. just be careful cause life can be treacherous... Just take your time.

BTW, what is the above talking about and talking to? With me is that he is not talking to!!

Get lost above pentelho!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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written by Truth, August 18, 2006
You're right. I'm not talking to you. Do you think you are the only one who reads comments here? Didn't you notice that many foreigners post things here and read the comments?

É cada burro que me aparece...
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written by a guest, August 18, 2006
Don't listen to the petit borgeois Lula haters. Viva Lula! A good and honest man . . . a rarity in Brazil!
Hey potato head
written by a guest, August 18, 2006
You're ranting. LOL! You just go on believing what you want in spite of the facts. You're a lost cause.

Viva Lula!
Truth
written by a guest, August 18, 2006
Truth is a liar. Lula was proven to be clean. No one can deny that. Well, no one but raving lunatic petit borgeois filinho do papãe potatoheaded Lula haters.

Lula vencerá! Viva Lula!
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written by a guest, August 18, 2006
papãe => papai Mas olha, ele é um corno.
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written by Truth, August 18, 2006
A liar? If Brazil was a serious country, Lula should be out of business only for that: http://www.aeconomiadobrasil.c...artigo=136

Again, WHO BETRAYED LULA, MR. PROFESSIONAL LIAR?
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written by Batata, August 18, 2006
Meu, você nem le os jornais do Brasil, como pode dizer que o lula é inocente só porque os coruptos se auto absolveram. Lost case? Americans are all kink people forget about it
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written by Carolina, August 18, 2006
Lost case, lost case and lost case, Americans are all lost case kink people.

Get lost
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written by Carolina, August 20, 2006
You see lost case, you being Brazilian Aussie, American you are an ignorant b/c you talk about something you don't know. I f you are really a member of the big party (PT) BLEARGH, than I shouldn't being writing to you escroto!! rs

And I meant kinky pervert you pervrt Americans LOL!
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written by Carolina, August 20, 2006
And don't tell me I'm frigid or something I could give you American reference that I am hot fine hot. Lol!
Corruption in Brazil
written by Fazendeiro, August 20, 2006
I'm an American and my wife is Brazilian and we own a eucalyptus fazenda in Bahia, Brazil. Having worked in both countries, I speak from experience. CORRUPTION IS KILLING BRAZIL. Right now, IBAMA officials are being arrested across the country due to corruption. In western Bahia, the senior IBAMA people were arrested and the Barreiras office closed. I have no idea if these people will spend any time in jail. What I do know is that for the past 5 months, no authorizations are being issued to transport forest products because of the closing of the IBAMA office. The steel companies which rely on the organic charcoal have closed because transportation has stopped. I personally had to lay-off 10 mininum wage workers while we wait for the government to figure out what we are doing. We also made the difficult decision not to continue expanding our farm.

I have a Brazilian daughter that I would love to give this farm to one day but I don't know if it makes sense to invest in Brazil or to sell the place and put the money in another country. I wish I could say I am shocked at the local reaction to what is happening but I have seen it for too long. People just shrug their shoulders. No one cares. After the last election, our town was missing several million reals...no one cares. The senator of Bahia, ACM, was relected after resigning due to a scandal...no one cares. False documents are authorized by local court house officials...no one cares. It goes on and on.

The real problem in Brazil is that people are afraid. The vast majority understands how much corruption is in their government and the people are not stupid. Although they may not voice it, the poeple know that a representative government does not really exist when corruption is out of control. Corruption is bought by money and so those with money control the government, the police, the judges and the country. It might look like a democracy but its not.

Our daughter will decide when she is 18 which country she is a citizen of, the US or Brasil. As much as my wife and I love Brasil, I don't know if we could recommend a Brazilian life for our daughter.
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written by Truth, August 20, 2006
I personally had to lay-off 10 mininum wage workers while we wait for the government to figure out what we are doing.

Do you see that brazilians? Do you see that? It's not the evil capitalist the cause of unemployment and low wages. IT'S THE GOVERNMENT! Every big government causes unemployment. Big government is the main cause of unemployment in Brazil, in France and everywhere in the world. Is it so difficult to understand that?

I was also laid-off once, along with several of my friends, because my company decided to shut down activities in my city, because the government decided to give incentives for northern and northeastern industries. Who caused my unemployment then? My evil capitalist employer or my government? It's also curious that in Brazil you're always "despedido", no matter if you were fired or laid-off. The burden is normally the same...

the people are not stupid

Excuse me, but I disagree. An example is what you put in the previous paragraph: The senator of Bahia, ACM, was relected after resigning due to a scandal. Most brazilians are stupid. They figure out the corruption in the country, as you say, but they think the government should be omnipresent. Tell one of your brazilian friends that people who run the government are our corrupt politicians and they will be surprised, it's laughable. They don't connect corrupt politicians to state. Not only that, they think the government can do a lot of things for them for free, without the need for anyone paying that, so they protest against high taxes while demanding more services. I'm fully aware that billions of our taxes go down the drain of corruption every year, and that now some protest to reduce taxes and increase services is possible if corruption is reduced, but that line of thought was also present in the 1970s and 1980s, when corruption was much smaller. That doesn't happen only in Brazil, that happens in the entire Latin America.
re:corruption in brazil
written by a guest, August 21, 2006
Buddy, I'm in your very same situation, brazilian daughter by a brazilian mother and I'm american. I also own a business in brazil and to say it's frustrating is an understatement. I've been here for 8 years now and this time of the year is particularly nauseating. Being woken up every saturday and sunday morning by the trio electricos and people screaming about this politician or that one. What many don't realize is it doesn't matter which candidate they elect, those elected must participate in a "system" that is corrupt. And if/when the day comes that a president of brazil is elected that truly has the courage to end corruption in this country, he'll never make it past the first 30 days, they'll bury him.

The U.S. has its faults, as do ALL countries, but I've never experienced the blatent, accepted corruption that exists here where I live in my entire life. I can't imagine it being worse anywhere else, maybe as bad, but not worse.

On top of that you have the "attitudes" of the majority of people, at least where I live, and to say these are attitudes of disrespect is putting it lightly. It doesn't matter what I or my wife teach our child, when she goes out in public she will be influenced by her environment, and it is an environment where the majority do not have respect for others, the law, property, or the very place in which they live.

Corruption and impunity rule the day. If you're wronged by a business or an individual and go to court good luck. You'll wait years for a decision and if the other party knows someone, or has enough money, they'll win, right or wrong. Huge industries go unregulated, look at the banking industry in brazil, it must be a jewish wet dream. You have laws that limit the amount of interest one can be charged yet receipta federal does nothing to enforce them. The banks as a matter of routing break the law EVERY DAY charging people 3-5-10 and even higher interest rates per month. This is ILLEGAL, yet they ALL do it. The brazilian banking system depends upon the ignorance of the brazilian population knowing that only 10% or less will actually take them to court. So the benefits to do business illegally in brazil overwhelmingly outweigh the costs. There is no enforcement, there is no regulation.

Unfortunately I don't see brazil changing much as far as attitudes are concerned for the masses in my lifetime, and probably not my childs either. When my child grows up she will choose where she wants to live and what she wants to do. I can only hope she chooses wisely, and that her attitudes and ideals haven't been corrupted by then.
re: re:corruption in brazil
written by Truth, August 21, 2006
Huge industries go unregulated, look at the banking industry in brazil, it must be a jewish wet dream.

Actually, the bank sector is highly regulated in Brazil. Everything is way too much regulated around here. There is so much regulation for others to offer alternative financial services that banks can charge very high fees for their services and very high interest rates without being bothered by competition. Not only that, there are lots of direct government controls on banking operations, namely those to collect Income Tax, CPMF and IOF, among others, of course. Those two facts, which stem from high regulation, are one of the reasons why their fees and interest rates are so high.

You touch a good point on the laws that limit the interest rates. It's not only in the law, it's in the constitution itself. That's 12% per annum, but take a look at Selic rate (equivalent to Fed rate): it's now on 17% per annum. Getting back to banking issues, the brazilian government holds about 80% of all loans made in the "market". Only about 20% of banking money goes to private persons and businesses. That's one more reason why interest rates are so high. If banks can give 80% of their money in credit to the government at 17% per annum with nearly zero risk (as the government can always increase taxes if it runs out of money), why should they give money to you, running a bigger risk of not being paid back? Did you realize that you compete against brazilian government for credit? smilies/smiley.gif

Continuing from the risk of not being paid, banks can force the justice to go faster and decide in favor of them, but that costs money and they still have problems with the legal mess in Brazil, and that's a third reason why interest rates are so high. Brazil is a good country for those who do not pay their bills afterall.

In short, banks have both advantages and disadvantages in doing their business in Brazil. But even so, their position is enviable, as they end up being one of the most protected markets in the world, having advantages surpassing by far the disadvantages. Of course, all of that is properly priced.
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written by Cá, August 25, 2006
It appears that raising a child nowadays seems to be more challenging than in any other time. I’m not married nor have children but have niece and nephew and get concerned about these times, children on the internet with all the dangers that has in it, plus the violence, prostitution on a common basis, wars and deaths so stupid and banais… Have read on the internet about one these crazy Americans that appears now and them saying something mirabolante, like parents have zero influence when it comes to their owns child! All I can say is that if I were a mother, and that would be a very important role, I would make sure I would pass through my own living the values I consider important in life. What makes sense in one’s life? After passing the “juvenile” years of a young adult I think a person can have more than firm convictions over what matters in life. Make sure what these values are and have no fear whether your children will be, Brazil or US, they will always carry the best their parents gave them.
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written by Ca, August 25, 2006
cá
just as an illustration over my thought
written by Carolina, August 25, 2006
Children of yesterday, today, are in different worlds

Published Thursday, August 17, 2006 4:00:45 PM Central Time


To the best of my recollection, the year before I turned 12, I was 11. My daughter, who turns 12 in October, is now eleventeen. There's a difference.

Jenna is at an age where she seems to have all the answers. I don't remember being all-knowing until I was at least 14. And let it be known that none of her sophisticated knowledge was derived from her super-annoying parents.

She got her hands on a fashion magazine geared toward teen girls. I didn't make much of it because this particular magazine has been around for decades. I read it when I was around her age and it was pretty clean then. That was my first mistake. The second was letting Jenna read it before I perused it. When I did, I was nearly nauseated.

The pages were inundated with the latest in fashion, which was fine, I guess, depending on one's taste in garb. What bothered me were some of the tips that accompanied the photos.

This shows off my figure -- a good way! I love the straight-leg cut. It plays up my curves. I love the super-dark wash. I look 10 lbs. thinner! This tight fit shows off my butt!

That just makes me want to shave Jenna's head and send her to school in a canvas potato sack. I don't want her curves played up or her butt shown off! EVER!

Much worse were some utterly irresponsible articles.

One story listed the results of a poll that questioned "over 100 guys to find out why they see you the way they do." Very scientific. The premise was, would a guy consider a girl for a relationship or merely a "hook-up" (you can guess what that means), based mostly on her appearance. One section stated that if the girl was drunk she'd be considered for a hook-up.

"885 ways to look hot!" was the cover story that garnered the largest print. My husband and I, riled over it, had a sort of skewed discussion on its ridiculousness. We had suggestions of our own, like run up and down the stairs, do some push-ups, paint your face red -- you get the idea. I suppose it was a nervous reaction for us, like laughing at a funeral.

Yet another segment recommended ways to catch a guy and keep him. Cripes.

Without proselytizing about the progression of the women's rights movement over the last century, I assert this was a step backwards. Not to mention useless. Come on, we're talking about teen-aged males and females, the former who generally don't need any convincing to spend time with girls.

It seems they'll print anything that sells.

I can't think of why else hundreds of thousands, if not millions of young female readers are being sent such degrading messages. I hope they aren't buying into them.

But then, I know Jenna was annoyed that I took the magazine away.

I guess I can crab about the loss of innocence and the evils of the media until I'm purple.

But I'm still the grown up and I'm still the mom. It's time for me to step up.

That magazine went into the burn barrel. Now that's hot.

Julie Wroblewski writes from rural Kimball where she lives with her husband and two children. E-mail her at jwroblewski@skyenet.net
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written by Carolina, August 25, 2006
Whorf, a linguistic theorist (humanities knowledge ) said : "man lives surrounded by the world exactly like the language he possess represents it". Think about it.

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