Brazzil

Since late 1999, the people and culture of the Federal Republic of Brazil have not failed to sustain my fascination. There are probably countless reasons that Latin America's largest and most populous country has seduced millions of tourists over the years and I will admit that as an African-American male with a background in the social sciences, the issue of race, race relations, racism and racial identity was my principal attraction when I first began visiting the country back in September of 2000.

While the music, food, language and futebol have also been of interest, it is the people of Brazil that continue to hold my fascination after my eighteen weeks of travel experience in South America's only Portuguese-speaking nation.

While analyzing the ways in which Brazilians and Americans seem different, as a student of the social sciences, I maintain respect, but am often perplexed by the seemingly contradictory ways that Brazilians, as well as Americans, view their social realities.

As I will frequently surf through this website for the latest news and views of my beloved Brazil, every now and then I will take a look at the latest postings in the Brazzil forum section. Surprisingly, or perhaps not so surprisingly, race-related subjects are dominant amongst the topics that people most like to debate.

Three of my past articles for this website have dealt with the complexities of race in Brazil, and to those who may be familiar with my work, I would like to explain a few things in order to clear up a few misunderstandings that people may have about my views and ideas (as the countless e-mails have led me to believe).

Allow me to say that in expressing my opinions about the ways that the issue of race factor into Brazilian society, I am in no way endorsing the idea that the conditions of race, racism and racial identity are in any way better or worse in the United States than they are in Brazil.

My main focus is to study these ideals and come to reasonable conclusions based on the facts as well as opinions. Social issues are not like Mathematics in that they will not lead to one provable, infallible conclusion. In fact, as social issues are often as complex as Mathematics, some answers to questions and problems could lead to diverse combinations of hypotheses and recommendations that could relieve of us all of societies' ills.

In terms of race and race-related issues, there are no doubt differences and variances between Brazil and the US (as well as amongst other countries), but I would like readers, Brazilians as well as non-Brazilians to realize that there also countless similarities that at times make the issue of race and racialized discrimination the same within the global community.

In studying both societies (US and Brazil), I believe that it would be fair to say that the peoples of both countries have a lot to learn about our respective diverse societies, how to acknowledge the problems and come to terms with how to deal with them. I enjoy debating issues because often times these debates stimulate ideas that I or someone else may never have thought of in the first place.

The only problem I have with these debates is when someone sends me an e-mail expressing an opinion along the lines of "the US is far more racist than Brazil" but then not offering any concise reasoning or evidence as to why they believe this to be true.

Let me say this for the record: the United States of America is a highly racist, sexist, homophobic, class-based society. I have NEVER claimed that it wasn't. In many ways it has economically, militarily and politically enforced its culture, way of life and will upon the global masses in complicity with the global elite.

The average American citizen may not realize this, but a careful reading of the history of US foreign policy will conclusively prove this point. In reality, there are millions of American citizens who have no idea of how our leaders shamelessly dominate the world at the expense of the global community with no regard for how our policies affect the lives of billions of people around the world.

Even worse, there are those who know the facts and are in full agreement without ever even thinking of how it could eventually affect their own lives both as American citizens or if they were citizens of other countries. But this is not the place where I will voice my concerns about the US policing of the world.

Without going into details, I acknowledge the existing problems in American society, but in writing for a website devoted to Brazilian society, I would also like to alert Brazilians, as well as foreigners who adore Brazil, of the multiple ways that Brazil itself plays a role in the oppression of millions of people in line with the hegemonic Westernized hierarchy.

The facts found within this work will confirm what any social scientist already knows: Racism is the principal characteristic of Brazil's historic and social formation (1).

In this essay, I would like to respond to my critics and pose a challenge to those who will disagree no matter what the evidence suggests. One of my main concerns in addressing these issues is challenging the idea that it is American social scientists that are imposing their Americanized views upon Brazilian society.

Again, I acknowledge the fact that American dominance often times imposes its will on others with total disregard for any voices of dissidence. But it is also true that as human beings with similar desires in life, we are more similar than we think we are. This is to say that while societies may be separated by distance, language and culture, there are certain attributes within the definition of being human within given societies that appear to be universal.

Many of these similarities would exist regardless of whether a global empire such as Ancient Rome, Great Britain or the United States ever existed. To prove my point, throughout much of this and the following essays, I will cite freely from an overwhelming majority of studies conducted by Brazilian social scientists.

One may not like criticism emanating from outside of one's family, but when one of your own states the facts, it may be time to take a closer look.

Since the political opening and return to official democracy in Brazil, there has been an amazing output of theses, dissertations and books published by Brazilians about the racial situation. These studies have helped to broaden my understanding of Brazilian racial politics and are now becoming the center of race-oriented studies within the global world of the social sciences (2).

A Critical Response

To start this essay, I would like to respond to a few of the e-mails, past Brazzil essays and postings at the Brazzil forum that have piqued my interest or demanded a response. One reader from Argentina posted a response (entitled "A response to Mr. Mark Wells")(3) to one of my past essays in the forum column in December of 2004. I will briefly cite a few of his arguments and then offer my responses.

"Although there is racism and stereotypes of the blacks as lazy or criminals, there is undoubtedly less racism in Brazil or Latin America in its totality than in the U.S., and yourself know why: there never in Latin America, as far as I remind, something like the Ku Klux Klan, nor Skinhead neo-nazis. There are not here mass beatings of blacks as there were in the U.S. time ago."

This is a common opinion that I find posted all over Brazilian-based Internet and magazine "letters to the editor" columns as well as right here in the Brazzil forum column. Brazilians, as well as non-Brazilians often point to America's violent racist past to justify the belief that Brazil is a more harmonious society.

First of all, no one can deny the violence of past and present American society, but my comparisons are based on Brazil and America of the present with intent of further analysis and interpretation of the facts from a Brazilian historical context. I would argue two things.

While (acknowledged) racial violence and mass Civil Rights movements existed in the US and on a (seemingly) smaller scale in Brazil, I would argue that people of African descent in the United States and Brazil today in many ways still occupy the same positions in their respective countries.

I say acknowledged because while no one can deny that racist violence is a part of American history, there seems to be a denial of its very existence in the history of Brazil. Brazilian historians have written extensively about racial violence in Brazil but Brazilians continue to believe that slavery and the post-abolition lives of Brazilians of African descent were much better than in the US.

Donna Goldstein points out that while Brazilian social scientists have written extensively about racial imbalances in Brazilian homicide rates, "they have been extremely cautious about proposing race as a determining or causal factor" (4) using the example of an essay by Luis Eduardo Soares, Cláudia Milito and Hélio R.S. Silva entitled "Homicídios Dolosos Praticados Contra Crianças e Adolescentes no Estado do Rio de Janeiro-1991 a Julho de 1993." Anthropologists such Antonio Sérgio Alfredo Guimarães have in fact highlighted the fact that racial violence is not as rare as one might think in Brazil (5).

The point that I am making is that Americans have been far more exposed to issues dealing with race and racism because the elites, leaders and forefathers of this country didn't attempt to hide their racist ideals. In Brazil, on the contrary, everything was done to hide racist tendencies and policies even when the state actively supported them.

Actual video and photos of lynchings, murders, police brutality and such has left an indelible imprint in the American psyche for at least the last half century. If a photo is worth a thousand words, imagine how these images have affected the minds of not only American citizens, but also people beyond North American shores.

The question of race has never been hidden in American society. On the other hand, let us ask ourselves: if every time a Rede Globo news program reported the murder of six kids in a morro in Rio and the word raça (race) was never mentioned, how would people interpret this data?

Is it possible that people would imagine that these people were killed because they were possible thieves, drug dealers or just poor? Anything beyond the fact that they were non-white? Some people, while understanding that favelas are overwhelmingly non-white, will also revert to the argument that white people also live in the favelas. There are a few problems with these arguments.

Brazil Vs. the US: Heaven and Hell or Hell and Heaven?

Anthropologist Athayde Motta once wrote that Brazilians must constantly point to the United States as a racial hell in order to make the image of Brazil appear to be heaven (6). I would have to agree. First of all, let's analyze the argument of, "it can't be racist because poor whites were killed/live there".

The color of the global image of the United States is white. Though people may know that minorities make up a large proportion of the US population, middle-class lifestyles, luxury and power is associated with whiteness.

What people may or may not know is that there are millions of poor, working poor, and homeless people in the US that are white. According to statistics on poverty in the US in 2001, 46.4% of people living in poverty were non-Hispanic whites, a total of 15.3 million people. Non-Hispanic whites also represented 7.8% of the total population of people living in poverty (7).

One might argue that because non-Hispanic whites represent about 73% of the US population, it should be expected that they have the largest number of people living in poverty. The difference here is the proportion and chances of living in poor conditions while considering the subject of race.

The poverty rate for African-Americans in that same year was 22.7% or almost three times the rate of poverty among non-Hispanic whites. In comparison, in Brazil, 8% of whites and 24% of blacks live in poverty (8). Thus in Brazil, as in the US, about three times as many blacks live in poverty than whites.

Of course these figures cannot be taken as absolutely precise and in reality, both estimates are lower than what many believe them to be. Experts have argued that in US poverty stats, if a family of four's highest monthly bill, housing rent or mortgage, is taken into account, the number of Americans living in poverty could increase more than twice the reported rate of 11.7%.

Let me also stress that the standard for absolute poverty in Brazil must be measured on a different index than that of the US. One could argue that many Americans living in slums, inner city tenements and poverty ridden areas would be considered middle-class by Brazilian standards.

Police: Serve, Protect and Break an African Descendant's Neck

"The struggle against racism is a struggle against corrupt and violent police"(9)
Luis Eduardo Soares, anthropologist and former sub-secretary of public security in Rio

Another way of measuring discrimination is through the analysis of police brutality statistics. African-Americans have long been victims of overt displays of excessive force at the hands of American police officers.

The November 25th (2006) murder of Sean Bell by the New York Police Department was just another incident in a long line of injustices experienced by the black community in cases involving the police. Bell was to be married only hours after he was killed in a hail of 50 bullets fired at him by police officers who believed he and his two friends were armed.

The weapons they were supposedly carrying have yet to be produced by police. Bell's friends Joseph Guzman and Trent Benefield were also wounded during the assault. This case reminds many of the violent murder of Amadou Diallo, the West African immigrant who was killed after being shot at 41 times by the NYPD in 1999. The police officers in that case were all acquitted (10).

African-Americans continue to be over represented in statistical reports of homicide committed by American police officers. I will include some of those stats later on in this report, but at this time I would like to highlight the fact that blacks are not the only people that experience violent and often times fatal encounters with the police.

In 1998, 62% of felons killed by American police officers were white. As a matter of fact, between the years 1978 and 1998, the rate per million killed by the police actually increased by 20% for whites while almost decreasing by half for blacks (11).

In comparison, according to a report by Flavia Piovesan et al.(12), of the cases in 1999 in which data for race or color was available, 85% of the victims of murders committed by the police or death squads in Brazil were black. 82% of these murders were committed by the police and another 17% by death squads.

While it may not receive as much press coverage as the war in Iraq, police in Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo have appeared to be on a mission of genocide for the past several years. And as in the United States, afrodescendentes are an overrepresentation of the casualties.

For anyone who wants to point the finger at the United States for its brutal treatment of black people, when compared to the stats coming out of Brazil, blacks in the US could be seen as being relatively safe. The shocking statistics prove my point. Before considering the numbers referring to Brazil's afrodescedentes, I will consider the facts that affect the entire population.

- In 2003, police in Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo killed 4 times more people than police in the entire United States (13).

- In 2003, police in Rio killed 1,195 people. By comparison, police in the entire United States killed 1,080 people within a three year period (2002-2004)(14).

- In 2003, police in São Paulo killed 868 people (15).

- In 1992, São Paulo police killed 61 times more people than New York City police killed in that same year (15 times more per capita) (16).

- In 2003, police in three Brazilian states (São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro and Minas Gerais), killed nearly 5 times more people than American police killed in the entire United States (1749 - 370) (17)

- Between 1990 and 2001, São Paulo police killed 7,942 people (18). Between those same years, police in the entire United States killed 4,558 people.

- To put these numbers in perspective, the combined total police murders in Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo in one year (2003) was 2,063. That is two-thirds the total number of US casualties (2,947) in nearly a three year period (March 2003 to December 2006) in the war in Iraq (19).

When comparing these alarming statistics to that of other countries in the Western world, Brazil clearly has some very serious human rights issues that need to be addressed. The United States is also a violent society, but when compared with Brazilian statistics, there is no comparison. So how does this violence specifically affect the black communities of each respective country? Again, let us analyze the facts:

- Between the years 1995 and 1998, 517 African-Americans were killed by American police. That represents 35% of the 1,478 justifiable homicides committed by the police (20). African-Americans represent 13% of the US population.

- After evaluating more than 1,000 police homicides committed by police in Rio de Janeiro between the years 1993 and 1996, reports show that 70% of the murder victims were afrodescendentes. By the year 1999, 85% of the victims of murders committed by the police or death squads in Brazil were afrodescendentes (21). Brazil's afrodescendentes represent about 45% of the Brazilian population.

- African-American men have an overall death rate nearly 50% higher than white men (22).

- The risk of death for Afro-Brazilians is 87% higher than that of white Brazilians (23).

It is because of statistics like these and the fact that the majority of the victims have a location (poor neighborhoods), gender (male), age (15-24) and color (black) that anthropologist Luiz Eduardo Soares labeled these acts of violent extermination what they are: genocide (24). In sheer numbers, the current situation in Brazil today is far worst than any period of human rights violations in US history.

The Image of Blacks in the White Mind

While these statistics show that blacks are not the only people victimized by police forces in each country, they do show that they are over represented according to their population representation. No doubt the actions of the Brazilian police are the result of the stigma of crime that is associated with lower income, primarily negro-mestiço neighborhoods. But is the stigma always justifiable?

In his research, journalist Caco Barcellos discovered that Brazilian whites were 65% of thieves and murderers and 68% of the rapists (25). Add this to the fact that the majority of the victims of police murder have no previous police record (26), are young and afrodescendente, and we begin to understand that, in Brazil, someone with light to dark brown skin is guilty even if he is innocent.

Considering poorer neighborhoods and its inhabitants, it is important to realize that while favelas are thought to be a major location of drug trafficking, in actuality, favela-based drug dealers represent a miniscule proportion of the favela population. For instance, in the Rio favela Jacarezinho, it is estimated that only 100 people are actually involved in drug trafficking. As the population of Jacarezinho is more than 150,000 people, that represents about 0.07% of its inhabitants (27).

On the other hand, in 2005, police in São Paulo arrested 180 university students connected to the traffic of the drug ecstasy (28). 60 were arrested in Rio de Janeiro. Thus, while police continue to mercilessly attack and kill inhabitants of poorer, darker neighborhoods, it is the middle class that commands 90% of the traffic of synthetic drugs (29).

To put this into a racial perspective, we must consider that 84.2% (30) of Afro-Brazilians are situated in economic classes C, D and E (31) while there are 6.25 times more whites that earn more than 10 minimum salaries (32) per month (33).

To paint a clearer portrait of income in Brazil, the class A (upper-middle class) economic tier would not be the best representation. Consider this: In 1998, the PNAD (34) released a study that reported family income of Brazilian families according to the race/color of heads of households.

This report showed that 14.8% of whites earned more than five minimum salaries per month while 12% of them earned up to half of one minimum salary. By comparison, only 3.3% of pretos and pardos earned more than five minimum salaries while pretos and pardos earning up to half of one minimum salary were 24.5% and 30.4% respectively (35).

In other words, while whites living in abject poverty or middle-class lifestyles were nearly even, there were eight times more pretos and ten times more pardos living in abject poverty than those living middle class lifestyles.

Considering these stats, three points must be observed. One, whites are just as likely to live comfortably as in extreme poverty. Two, afrodescendentes are the poorest of the poor. And three, pardos, who are thought to have clear social advantages over pretos, often times experience even worse conditions. From this perspective, one can clearly see the correlation between race/color and class in Brazil.

Footnotes

1. Francisco, Dalmir. Negro, Etnia, Cultura e Democracia. In.: Revista do Patrimônio Histórico e Artístico Nacional. No. 25. Rio de Janeiro, RJ: 1997 cited in Vaz, Paulo Bernardo Ferreira and Frederico de Mello Brandão Tavares. "O Negro-Mestiço e a Narrativa Fotojornalística: Um Outro Nos Cadernos "Cidade"". Anais do 26. Congresso Brasileiro de Ciências da Informação, Belo Horizonte-MG, September 2003. São Paulo: Intercom, 2003. Available online. December 15, 2006.
reposcom.portcom.intercom.org.br/dspace/bitstream/1904/5008/1/NP13VAZ.pdf

2. Sérgio da Silva Martins, Carlos Alberto Medeiros, and Elisa Larkin Nascimento. "Paving Paradise: The Road From "Racial Democracy" to Affirmative Action in Brazil". Journal of Black Studies 2004 34: 787-816.

3. Diaz, Pablo. "A Response to Mark Wells". Brazzil Forum. http://brazzilrace.com/viewtopic.php?t=6

4. Goldstein, Donna. Laughter Out of Place: Race, Class, Violence and Sexuality in a Rio Shantytown. University of California Press. November 2003.

5. Guimarães, Antonio Sérgio Alfredo. "O insulto racial: as ofensas verbais registradas em queixas  de discriminação". http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?
script=sci_arttext&pid=S0101- 546X2000000200002&lng=en&nrm=iso

6. Motta, Athayde."Genética e realidade: Contra a genética, o conhecimento." http://www.afirma.inf.br/textos/destaque_janeiro.rtf

7. Poverty in the United States: 2001. http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p60-219.pdf

8. Kottak, Conrad Phillip. Cultural Anthopology (EIGHTH EDITION). McGraw Hill 2000

9. Equipe de Trainees. "Cassetete de policiais faz discriminação." Folha de S. Paulo. October 13, 2001. Available online August 22, 2005.
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/treinamento/menosiguais/xx1310200122.htm

10. Democracy Now. "50 Bullets: Rev. Al Sharpton & Amadou Diallo's Mother Condemn NYPD  Killing of Groom Sean Bell Hours Before His Wedding". Available online December 1, 2006.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/28/1454244

11. Brown, Jodi M. and and Patrick A. Langan. "Policing and Homicide, 1976-98: Justifiable Homicide of Felons by Police and Murder of Police by Felons". Available online April 24, 2006. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ph98.pdf

12. Flavia Piovesan, James Louis Cavallaro, Jamie Benvenuto Lima, Jr., Jose Fernando da Silva, Lucioano Oliveira and Valdenia Brito. 2001. Execuções Sumárias, Arbitrárias ou Extrajudiciais, Uma Aproximação da Realidade Brasileira. Recife: Companhia Editora de Pernambuco. 2001 as quoted in Edward Telles Racismo à brasileira: uma nova perspectiva sociológica. Rio de Janeiro: Relume-Dumará: Fundação Ford, 2003.

13. Cotes, Paloma and Solange Azevedo. "Polícia que não funciona". Época magazine, #311. May 3, 2004.

14. Ibid. Statistics on US police taken from US Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs' Bureau of Justice Statistics. Available online August 13, 2006.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/justifytab.htm

15. Ibid.

16. Human Rights Watch. Police Brutality in Urban Brazil. Human Rights Watch, 1997.

17. Ramos, Silvia. "Police Violence in Rio de Janeiro: from Beatings to the Use of Lethal Force". Rede Social de Justiça e Direitos Humanos. Available online August 16, 2006. http://www.social.org.br/relatorioingles2005/relatorio010.htm

18. Gomes, Américo. "As verdadeiras vítimas da banalização da violência". Jornal Opinião Socialista. Issue no. 164. December 3, 2003 - January 28, 2004. Available online September 17, 2005.
http://www.pstu.org.br/jornal_materia.asp?id=1512&ida=0

19. US Casualties in Iraq. GlobalSecurity.org. Available online at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

20. "Policing and Homicide, 1976-98: Justifiable Homicide of Felons by Police and Murder of Police by Felons". Available online April 24, 2006. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ph98.pdf and US Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs' Bureau of Justice Statistics. Available online August 13, 2006. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/justifytab.htm

21. Cavallaro, James Louis; Andressa Caldas, Flavia Helena de Lima. Justiça Global Brasil. Available online July 31, 2006. http://www.global.org.br/english/arquivos/wallace.html. Flavia Piovesan, James Louis Cavallaro, Jamie Benvenuto Lima, Jr., Jose Fernando da Silva, Lucioano Oliveira and Valdenia Brito. 2001. Execuções Sumarias, Arbitrarias ou Extrajudiciais, Uma Aproximacao da Realidade Brasileira. Recife: Companhia Editora de Pernambuco. 2001 as quoted in Edward Telles Racismo à brasileira: uma nova perspectiva sociológica.. Rio de Janeiro: Relume-Dumará: Fundação Ford, 2003

22. Reuters Limited. Study: Racism kills black men. March 26, 1998. Available online December 10, 2004. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/03/26/health/main5894.shtml

23. Instituto Observatório Social. "Sem ter o que comemorar, negros protestaram nesta segunda". Available online August 13, 2006.
http://www.observatoriosocial.org.br/portal/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1096&Itemid=89

24. Gomes, Américo. "As verdadeiras vítimas da banalização da violência". Jornal Opinião Socialista. Issue no. 164. December 3, 2003 - January 28, 2004. Available online September 17, 2005.
http://www.pstu.org.br/jornal_materia.asp?id=1512&ida=0 . Soares, Luiz Eduardo. Inclusão Social e as Perspectivas Pós-Estruturalistas de Análise Social. Seminário Internacional. Available online August 16, 2005. http://fundaj.gov.br/geral/inclusao/luizeduardo.pdf

25. Barcellos, Caco. Rota 66. Record 2003.

26. Caldeira, Teresa P.R. "The paradox of police violence in democratic Brazil". Ethnography, Volume. 3, No. 3, 2002.

27. Vargas, João H. Costa. "Apartheid brasileiro: raça e segregação residencial no Rio de Janeiro". Revista Antropologia. Volume 48, #1. São Paulo. June 2005.

28.Fernandes, Nelito; Solange Azevedo and Paloma Cotes. "O crime mora na classe média". Época magazine. Issue 384. September 25, 2005. Available online July 13, 2006.
http://revistaepoca.globo.com/Epoca/0,6993,EPT1040892-1664-1,00.html

29. Ibid.

30. Cotta, Elaine and Ariana Nicacio. "Negros na elite-Participação de afrodescendentes nas classes A e B sob". Isto É magazine, #455, June 7, 2006.

31. Antrax Comércio e Serviços de Informática Ltda. "Classes Sociais do Brasil". Available online http://www.ai.com.br/pessoal/indices/CLASSES.HTM Economic class in Brazil is divided into five main categories (A, B, C, D and E) and the salaries are computed monthly according to how many minimum salaries one earns per month. In 2006, households earning from to 0 to 478 reais per month were considered a part of class E. Households earning from R$ 479 to R$ 1,035 per month were considered class D. C is R$ 1,036 to R$ 2.149 per month. B is from $R 2,150 to R$ 6,209 per month and families of class A earned R$ 6,210 or more per month. Less than 1% of all Brazilian families earn more than 10 minimum salaries per month.

32. Brazilian salaries are calculated monthly. The salário mínimo is the minimum salary that a worker is to be paid in a month's time. According to Law 11.321, starting in April of 2006, the Brazilian minimum salary was to be increased from R$ 300 to R$ 350 per month. As of December 23, 2006, the American Dollar was worth 2.15 Brazilian Reais (1 dollar = 2.15 reais). Thus, as of this date, the Brazilian minimum salary per month was worth about 163 American Dollars. Portal Brasil website. "Lei nº 11.321, de 7 de Julho de 2006". Available online. November 17, 2006.
http://www.portalbrasil.net/salariominimo_2006.htm

33. Petrucelli, José Luis and Moema Teixeira. "O que não se diz". O Globo. December 4, 2006. Available online
www.unicamp.br/unicamp/canal_aberto/clipping/dezembro2004/clipping041206_oglobo.html

34. Pesquisa Nacional de Amostra de Domicílios (National Research Sample of Households)

35. Teixeira, Moema de Poli; Maria Lúcia Rodrigues Muller, Iolanda de Oliveira and André Augusto P. Brandão. Projeto Políticas de Ação Afirmativa nas Universidades Federal Fluminense e Federal do Mato Grosso. Brasil, ABEP 2002. Available online September 23, 2004. http://www.lpp- uerj.net/olped/documentos/ppcor/0134.pdf

This is part one of a multi-piece article.

Mark Wells holds a bachelor's degree in Anthropology from the University of Michigan-Dearborn and is currently working on a Master's Degree in Social Justice at Marygrove College in Detroit, Michigan. He can be reached at This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

2007 Mark Wells

Comments (187)

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Any comments on affirmative action?
written by Will Pickering - Campinas SP, January 11, 2007

As the author of this article no doubt knows, "Race in Another America: The Significance of Skin Color in Brazil" by E. Telles, summarizes a mountain of the kind of research mentions above. One disturbing Brazilian survey cited by Telles gives purported evidence to the effect that lighter skinned children did better in school than their darker siblings. The book mentions the idea that racism in the US is horizontal - people of the same class are segregated, but blacks can move up the latter (Telles think this is due to affirmative action) - but racism in Brazil is vertical - people within the same class mix, but there is little upward mobility. After living in Washington, DC, for many years, and in Campinas for 8 years, I have found this theory to be pretty accurate. Campinas, by the way, would make an interesting study with regard to Brazilian racial attitudes. It is one of the few Brazillian cities that once had fairly rigid segregation, and it has a large black community that has been politically active with regard to equal rights for one hundred years. Like many northern US cities, the "old" black families make up a different social network that that of the migrants who came from the 50s onward.
Mark, any comments on how you think affirmative action will work in Brazil?

...
written by joe, January 11, 2007

I have been visiting brazil for over 39 years and have lived with the average white brazilian family
and I can tell you that the average white family is as racist or more racist then here in the USA.
If the author had did more research he would have known this. It does not count to talk to or even live with a white person. Because as in the USA most people are not going to call a n****r a n****r in front of a n****r face.
But when white people and alone amoung themselves they do talk about the way the blacks act, cry racist at ever turn, and always have to prove their power by marrying white trailer trash.
Get really birds of a feather flock to together and always will every where in the world.

Wrong assumptions, wrong conclusions
written by A brazilian, January 11, 2007

Numbers interpreted out of nowhere means absolutely nothing. People do have the notion that favelas are the places for drug trafficking, kidnappers, and that's easy to know why. Just open the newspaper and you will see those animals burning people alive in buses!! That plus the little police control of those regions, due to "land invasion" nature of such places, that's enough to make everyone affraid of passing nearby.

A question: were those people that burned the people alive in buses by any chance blonde?

There was a "police death squadron" recently (about 200 people were killed), and the people was loving it! It was after the PCC attacks in Sao Paulo. They use the population as hostage, just like terrorists, how not to expect people to love when they are attacked by the police? This doesn't justify anything of course, and many innocent that happen to be in the wrong place in the wrong time were killed too, but I am just giving the context in which many of the numbers you gave happen.

There were even messages of support to the police murderers in some places. People are really pissed off.

Everyone here is tired of seeing violence everyday. And now it seems those animals are finding more and more grotesque ways of killing people. People want it to stop. Once again, this doesn't justify the murder of anyone, it's just the context.

So, don't try to make it look like a race issue. It's not. It's paranoia and fear fueled by waves of violence.

Do you know how those "favelas" came to be? They just invaded the place!! For some people it's hard to believe that they were allowed to do that to begin with!! Now some of those "favelas" are so big, they have more people and (legal) money flowing in their economy than entire cities!!

Stop talking about afro-descendents as if it were equals. This is a common mistake made by americans. The diversity is big and there's no way of putting such label in everyone. This is a typical american thing.

In sheer numbers, the current situation in Brazil today is far worst than any period of human rights violations in US history.

Taking it out of context, yes. With an honest analysis, no.

Thus in Brazil, as in the US, about three times as many blacks live in poverty than whites.

I don't know how you can assume someone's accomplishments in life are not right, or want to take away their merits, because the number doesn't show a 50 - 50 balance.

No doubt the actions of the Brazilian police are the result of the stigma of crime that is associated with lower income, primarily negro-mestiço neighborhoods

There's no such thing of "negro-mestiço" neighborhoods in Brazil. And don't put them together. As a matter of fact, don't group people like that, that's bad for the mind, it takes away the sense of individuality and responsibility for their own lives.

Typical american talking.

From this perspective, one can clearly see the correlation between race/color and class in Brazil.

You mean in a very biased, number manipulation kind of way?

...
written by A brazilian, January 11, 2007

I can tell you that the average white family is as racist or more racist then here in the USA.

This is like saying "In France there are many a*****es, I have been there for 39 years". Of course you will find such things, but it's a completely different matter than say that the country is full of it.

By my experience the people that are like that are either underachievers or empty minded people that look ugly, and none of those ever posed a threat to me, I just avoid them. People with little to be proud in life grab themselves to such stupid things because they have nothing else.

Why would anyone bother about that instead of having a successful life it's beyond comprehension, unless the person that is bothered about it is also underachiever or empty minded.

Observer
written by Stevebr, January 11, 2007

I can tell you I am white and live in the south of Brazil where % wise there are less Blacks, however the ones that do live here have a hard life. The white's won't hire them to be maids, servants etc. My neighboors are nativas ( meaning from here but not Indian) and they also won't hire Blacks. Whenever I hire blacks to do work on the grounds the viilage gets revolted and I am on the Sh*t list for a few weeks. Catch 22!!!!

...
written by A brazilian, January 11, 2007

village?

...
written by A brazilian, January 11, 2007

The term village is not used in Brazil, I assume you are referring to small town, right? So you are living in a small town (few hundreds of people, maybe a few thousands), in the south, probably built by either german or italians and populated by them still, and you are complaining about racism in Brazil? How's that representative of the whole country? Are you serious?

I have met many white maids sometimes (blonde, blue eyes, etc) , but I wouldn't date or marry them for the same reason as I wouldn't for anyone from any other color. I don't want my kids to be born stupid.

...
written by Bienchido, January 11, 2007

Interesting essay. The issue of race is a complex one in both America and Brazil. As an American living in Brazil I am often called upon to explain the racial contraditions in my own country, and I always take the opportunity to point out contradictions in Brazilian society. Brazilians often use the U.S. as a counterweight to make Brazil look like it is racially enlightened. White Brazilians are often very defensive about racial inequality, while Afro-Brazilians are far more realistic about racial inequalities. Brazilians in general sooth themselves with their "feel-good" myth of racial harmony and a color-blind society, while many Americans are hyper-sensitive about racial issues. Very broadly speaking--and from my American perspective--I'd say this: on a social "street level" way Afro-Brazilians are more integrated into Brazilian society, but economically, legally and politically Afro-Americans are far more integrated into American society and have many more opportunities and choices.

...
written by A brazilian, January 11, 2007

Afro-Brazilians

This one is priceless.

...
written by Stevebr, January 11, 2007

Don't forget the Portuguese were dominated and sporned by the Moors for over 500 years. And waited 20 years later than the rest of the world to abolish slavery.

Police injustice
written by Matt5555, January 11, 2007

"The November 25th (2006) murder of Sean Bell by the New York Police Department was just another incident in a long line of injustices experienced by the black community in cases involving the police. Bell was to be married only hours after he was killed in a hail of 50 bullets fired at him by police officers who believed he and his two friends were armed. "

The author forgot to mention the intended groom tried to run down the police with his car.

...
written by A brazilian, January 11, 2007

Don't forget the Portuguese were dominated and sporned by the Moors for over 500 years. And waited 20 years later than the rest of the world to abolish slavery.

Rewriting history? Portugal, as any other country in Europe, suffered the influence of many peoples, among tem the Moors. If you are black then you just proved that american blacks are racists, and use the same ficticious notion of "racial purity" as a Neo Nazi would.

BTW, the majority of blacks were already free by the time the slavery was abolished (small details that make all the difference) and Brazil never had a Ku Klux Klan, public lynchings, and anything of the like.

What is disturbing about this talk it's not the fact that Moors are involved, but that you really take this race thing seriously.

Police Injustice or justice
written by The Investigator, January 11, 2007

"The author forgot to mention the intended groom tried to run down the police with his car."

Is that actually true or is it what the police said to justify their actions? A lot was also said by the police in New Orleans to justify the Katrina bridge shootings. However, the investigations have shown otherwise including the fact that there were no police in need of help on the bridge---the reason the police gave that began the whole incident in the first place.
In other words, let the investigation of the New York shootings take place before classifying the incident one way or the other.

good point
written by Matt5555, January 11, 2007

Good point - wiat until the grand jury sorts it out and the investigation is completed. But another interesting fact is that Dectective Isnora was one of the police firing and he is a black policman. These things are always sad.

I have seen it
written by A Brazilian-born American, January 11, 2007

I grew up in Brazil and I have an extensive family
there.
As a kid, I remember having lots of black friends who had
nicknames as "Joe Preto", "Negao" etc and it never occur to me
that those names were given out of any prejudice.

At the same time, when I cousin of mine married a "mulato" was
a scandal in the family.

My brother married also a darker skin girl. They have a beautiful baby
together and when I ask my dad about them he says that
the baby is getting whiter and therefore cuter everyday...

That alone tells you about their disguised racism.. and they
think those comments are just fine.

Unbelievable.

...
written by A brazilian, January 11, 2007

As a kid, I remember having lots of black friends who had
nicknames as "Joe Preto", "Negao" etc and it never occur to me
that those names were given out of any prejudice.

Because they weren't. Since when calling someone Negão is racism? Isn't the person black? Is it racism to call black people black in the US?

A Brazilian-born American

That tells a lot about your opinons, ex-brazilian.

...
written by jabmalassie, January 11, 2007

I don't see how this:

Don't forget the Portuguese were dominated and sporned by the Moors for over 500 years. And waited 20 years later than the rest of the world to abolish slavery.


Proves this:
.
If you are black then you just proved that american blacks are racists, and use the same ficticious notion of "racial purity" as a Neo Nazi would.

Does anybody?

Bad smelling taste !
written by ch.c., January 11, 2007

- If Brazil is less racist than America, please advise how many Black Brazilians politicians have been elected by the population at the Senate and Congress. In an article of a few years ago it said : "In Congress, only 12 of the 513 members of the Chamber of Deputies and two of the 81 senators are of African ancestry."

Knowing that near 50 % of the Brazilian population is Afro-Brazilian, it is curious than even non whites votes....for whites !
This same article also said :" But black pride has not taken root in Brazil outside of African-culture centers like Salvador, the nation's colonial-era capital. Many Afro-Brazilians simply deny they are black - a 1998 census found more than 300 descriptions for skin color, including ``cinnamon,'' ``coffee-with-milk,'' ``blue,'' even ``encardido,'' the Portuguese word for ``filthy.''


Although I tend to overall agree with Mark's article, it is quite sad that Mark gives a lot of stats with the Brazilian Police
killings and against the students, because these Murders were NOT specifically against blacks but mostly against poors.

Therefore it is more a social exclusion against the majority of the population than "only" color racism.
The Death squads are not killing more black children, than "tanned" or white children.
Their only common denomination is poverty and being street children.. Quite a difference with what the article's author
has written.
Therefore mixing and/or confusing Racism with Opression in an analysis is not only wrong but also very dangerous.

Finally below are 2 an interesting explanation of the racism difference in Brazil and America :

"Although racial discrimination is a crime in Brazil and in the USA, help-wanted ads in Brazil often require "good appearance'' - which is widely taken as code for white"
"From the racial viewpoint, Brazil and the USA are different - there, whites and blacks are equal but live separately; here, they are together but unequal.''

...
written by A Brazilian-born American, January 11, 2007

Because they weren't. Since when calling someone Negão is racism? Isn't the person black? Is it racism to call black people black in the US?

That was I was trying to say: the names were just descriptive and use in a very nice way.

My point was: In Brazil "black is ok as long as it does not happen in my family". I am not an expert just
contributing to this discussion with my experiences.

Cheers

...
written by A brazilian, January 11, 2007

Knowing that near 50 % of the Brazilian population is Afro-Brazilian, it is curious than even non whites votes....for whites !
This same article also said :" But black pride has not taken root in Brazil outside of African-culture centers like Salvador, the nation's colonial-era capital. Many Afro-Brazilians simply deny they are black - a 1998 census found more than 300 descriptions for skin color, including ``cinnamon,'' ``coffee-with-milk,'' ``blue,'' even ``encardido,'' the Portuguese word for ``filthy.''

WTF! The European trash talking about Brazil! hahahahahaha

I can conceive americans with their cluelessness talking about Brazil, BUT an European with people taking swastikas to football stadiums and all, and killing immigrant.... bwahahhahahahahahahha

I noticed you already labeled those of Salvador as "blacks in denial". People are what they are. BTW, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS AFRO-BRAZILIANS. There's only Brazilians. This is not the US and we don't segregate people in ghettos!! Not even ghettos for the mind such as these classifications. Please keep your binary mind in Europe where it belongs.

...
written by joao heringer, January 11, 2007

What's up with this idiot "brazilian"? Take a chill pill. Brazil is just as racist as anywhere I have ever been and people like you only make the problem worse. I'll bet you went to school during the military years when all we learned was how wonderful Brazil was. Throw away those history books and try reading some written by someone other than politicians.

...
written by Simpleton, January 11, 2007

-A Brazilian-born American, there is clearly an inability to see what is in one's own yard, neighborhood and town as for what it is. My mulato friends do not think what they say to me about someone who is more black than they as being racist. To me, what they say sometimes seems more viciously so than what I've ever encountered. If you were to ask them if they are racist you can bet on the answer you would receive. My black friends who speak hatefully towards the white Portugues in thier midsts don't distinguish that their great separation of class is at the root, not anyones color. Do they speak such towards filthy rich black foreigners? Possibly but I don't think so.

Racism in Brazil? Wouldn't you know?
written by GC, January 11, 2007

As for a former head of a major derivatives trading desk on Wall Street ( I am African-American, by the way), I was responsible for covering Latin American clients, mostly Brazilian, Argentine and Mexican banks.

One anecdote about Brazil says it all. For about a year and a half, I had been dealing with a major Brazilian bank and we helped them make quite a bit of $$$ on fixed income convergence trades. I decided to take a trip to Brazil to meet with this client in particular and thank them for their business, as we also made a handsome profit on their trades. When I arrived at their offices, the first thing that struck me was the funny look I got in the elevator going up. I did not make much of it but in hindsight I realized that the few blacks who entered the building when I did headed straight to a different set of elevators. Anyway, when I got to the reception area, I introduced myself in approximate Portuguese ( I am fluent in French and Spanish, so I was able to learn stock Portuguese sentences to avoid the "ugly American" stereotype) and asked for the Vice President with whom I had dealt with for about 18 months without ever meeting him. The receptionist called him and and told me he would arrive right away as his office was close. So I stood by her desk and waited. A minute later, a white, blond Brazilian male came up, stood right next to me and asked the receptionist where his American guest was. Mind you, there were only THREE people in the reception area at the time: my client, the receptionist, and me. She smiled sheepishly and pointed to me. I think it took him AT LEAST 30 seconds to figure out that the trader who had been helping him this whole time was black. The look on his face said it all, although he recovered from the shock and treated me graciously.

Wall Street is not exactly integration heaven, but I doubt a white American banker in this day and age would have had the same reaction. Funny enough, I ran into this scenario a few times in Brazil but NEVER in Mexico and Argentina.

A German American/Brazilian
written by utinga, January 12, 2007

A well executed article, though I have a few problems with some of the stats. Only two questions, what is the percentage of white on white killings versus black on black killings in both countries? Does anyone think that this statistic has any bearings on this article or race problems in general?

...
written by e harmony, January 12, 2007

I was just speaking with a Priest from Chile the other evening, he clearly had what would be considered dark mestizo features, he has lived in the United States well over a decade and spent years in Brazil (in Rio and some small town outside of Sao Paulo). He was telling me that Brazil is a country of contrast wherein the Rich neighborhoods are right beside the poor favelas. The people he said are very social, much more so than the Chilean or U.S. character. He spoke of two Priest friends of his being robbed (home invasion) and laughed when he spoke of himself being robbed on the streets of Brazil once for his glasses that had a gold color rim. He however corrected me firmly, that it was not something a Priest was going to face all the time and could happen in the U.S., when I expressed a bit of shock or cultural ethno-centric superiority in that Priests would be robbed. I asked him about his view on race in Brazil and he seemed slightly irritated by the question, and stated that he really believes race is less an issue in Brazil and the economic divide is the greater issue, he seemed irritated and made clear that the Brazilian people are so very mixed. He stated in his opinion the United States has far more racial issues than both Brazil or Chile.

Now, asking him about Rio's famous "body culture" he said yes you see women on the beaches in small bikinis and so forth, but he made certain to state that it was important to understand it was their culture. He said that when you first go their your eye are big and you have that culture shock mixed with lust. He said however that it was normal for the Brazilians in Rio and they did not look upon the lesser clothed human body as wide eyed as I would coming from my culture.

--
--

I have a few questions though... if most Black American's ancestral lines run not from Brazil but from West Africa then why do so many black Americans care so much about what goes on in Brazil more than in say Nigeria, Liberia, or Sierra Leone? Why do so many black Americans seem to want to "fix" say Rio but let Baltimore, Detroit, Lagos, and Free Town go to hell? One might respond back and say because black Americans have more geographically and historically in common with black Brazilians. This I could accept but for one thing: why is it black Americans will typically write only glowing things (things to make black Americans feel pride in their ancestral line and racial color group) about black African societies be they in Nigeria or elsewhere but turn around and berate Brazil and the Brazilian people for her injustice and cultural primitiveness? It's often projected that the mulatto and mixed-race person is the racially confused, sell-out, or racial tyrant working for the white tyrant. I will not deny mulattoes and or mixed-race peoples are to be found filling all those descriptions in every page of history. Yet I can not get over the fact that mulattoes and mixed-race peoples to my knowledge have not run a genocide anywhere on the globe yet. However, we know in the 20th century, whites had a major genocide on whites in Europe and the century closed with blacks having a major genocide on blacks in Africa. Blacks want to write and frame relevant history in such a way that gives black peoples through out the world pride. White people wish to do the same thing with white peoples. As a person mixed-race, as a person mulatto, let me offer a "pride" history (rather than a negative history) in relation to mixed-race peoples... mixed-race Brazilians have conducted no genocide on anyone. They have not formed Ku Klux Klans, they have not systematically conducted a Tuskgee Experiment (spelling?), they have not sent whole peoples to the gas chambers, they have not chopped down 800,000 people in about 30 days time with machetes. Mixed-race peoples in Brazil in all their colors from white to black have welcomed diverse racial and ethnic groups of people into their massive metropolitans (such as Sao Paulo and Rio) just New York and Lagos has. While it has become fashionable in contemporary times to credit the United States for being "multi-cultural," black African societies as wise and progressive, and Islamic Eastern metropolitans as meccas of racial and religious tolerance, and then to write on large mixed-race traditionally Catholic influenced societies such as Mexico and Brazil as being the epitome of intolerance, injustice, backwardness, brutality and racially explosive in on form or another... I reject all this hyper-negative painting of mestizo Mexico, mulatto Brazil, and moreno led both as laughable to truth and only the sight of the blind.

...
written by jabmalassie, January 12, 2007

I have a few questions though... if most Black American's ancestral lines run not from Brazil but from West Africa then why do so many black Americans care so much about what goes on in Brazil more than in say Nigeria, Liberia, or Sierra Leone?

I don't know for sure but I think many of the Blacks in America feel they share some of the same experiences. Most of the blacks that came to America arrived via the slave trade.
Most of the blacks in Brazil most likely came from West Africa as well via the slave trade.

I think all mankind is capable of atrocities. Mixed people as well. El Salvador had a brutal war.(The drug war is as brutal as many other wars)

...
written by A brazilian, January 12, 2007

I don't know for sure but I think many of the Blacks in America feel they share some of the same experiences. Most of the blacks that came to America arrived via the slave trade.
Most of the blacks in Brazil most likely came from West Africa as well via the slave trade.

I am more pragmatic, I think it's about political power and money. Using the "race issue" they can gather more political support and more money than they would without it. Brazil and the brazilian society poses a threat to such business model. So in order to "keep this business going" they need to make it look like Brazil is "even worse" than US.

Besides, there's always the case of portraying latin american countries are crappy places where everything bad happens and the US as an example to the world where everything is perfect. I think it hurts their patriotic ego that the US might not be as good as they would like it to be.

...
written by Bienchido, January 12, 2007

Questions for the commentator "A Brazilian":

1. Why are virtually all the people working in shops/lojas in shopping centers in Salvador and other cities white?
2. Why are almost all the bank tellers and employees in banks in Salvador and other cities white?
3. Why are there so few black or mulatto politicians in Brazil, where about 50% of the population is of African descent?
4. Why are almost all the actors on Brazilian telenovelas white, except the maids, who are black?
Please don't tell us there is no racism in Brazil!

Bienchido,
written by A brazilian, January 12, 2007

I can't answer incorrect questions, they would have only incorrect answers. First you will need to come up with data to back those assumptions of yours.

...
written by GC, January 12, 2007

"I have a few questions though... if most Black American's ancestral lines run not from Brazil but from West Africa then why do so many black Americans care so much about what goes on in Brazil more than in say Nigeria, Liberia, or Sierra Leone?"

But who says that the above quote is true? I for one don't think that is the case at all and the author has it wrong. As much as there have been some articles lately on black men (a very well-defined sub-group, mind you) going to Brazil for what is essentially sex tourism, joining in the process a large number of non-blacks engaging in the same trade, the fact of the matter is that Brazil is NOT from my observation in my communities (Miami and New York) anywhere near the top of our concerns.

Among the non-scientific benchmarks I use to base my statement are the following:
1. The Congressional Black Caucus is most active in African and Caribbean issues on the international front (I cannot remember the last time they said anything about Brazil), but by and large, as elected reps, they do try to bring home the bacon;
2. The vast majority of black churches involved in humanitarian causes schedule trips primarily to African and the Caribbean (Jamaica, Barbados, Haiti, etc.), not to Brazil
3. Discussions in college business conferences I have attended (mostly on the Eastern seaboard) have been about local issues and Africa, most certainly not Brazil.

In a nutshell, I believe our order of priorities is still: 1) the betterment of our communities and that of blacks in the US; 2) concern about our ancestral land, i.e. Africa; and 3) concern about other countries with black populations, i.e. the Caribbean. For specific black immigrant groups to the US, this order will most certainly be different, but by and large, African-Americans do care about local issues first and global/international issues second on the whole.

It is important to remember that there are SIGNIFICANT differences between black Americans and Brazilians:
1. Religion: we are mostly protestant whereas they are catholics
2. Language: we black Americans have not embraced foreign languages the way we should have, I must admit, so the Portuguese/English dvide is a major barrier to developing ties between ourselves
3. Political maturity: for all the talk of racial harmony in Brazil, the fact of the matter is that it works AS LONG AS blacks agree to stay in "their place" and not rock the boat. All the Jim Crow stuff that is allowed in Brazil ("good appearance" issue, overt racism in employment and education, etc.) will not work in the US today. No matter what one's view is on the issue, the civil rights movement in the US, as imperfect as it may have been, allowed us to make strides that blacks in Brazil have not made yet.

Simply put, I will take the US over Brazil any day as a black person.

...
written by e harmony, January 12, 2007

written by GC, 2007-01-12 16:39:12

It is important to remember that there are SIGNIFICANT differences between black Americans and Brazilians:
1. Religion: we are mostly protestant whereas they are catholics
2. Language: we black Americans have not embraced foreign languages the way we should have, I must admit, so the Portuguese/English dvide is a major barrier to developing ties between ourselves
3. Political maturity: for all the talk of racial harmony in Brazil, the fact of the matter is that it works AS LONG AS blacks agree to stay in "their place" and not rock the boat. All the Jim Crow stuff that is allowed in Brazil ("good appearance" issue, overt racism in employment and education, etc.) will not work in the US today. No matter what one's view is on the issue, the civil rights movement in the US, as imperfect as it may have been, allowed us to make strides that blacks in Brazil have not made yet.

Simply put, I will take the US over Brazil any day as a black person.

I like your post. I'm not sure I agree with every exact aspect of it but I do like it nonetheless.

I especially like of your post what I placed in bold. I came up in the U.S. as Catholic with the white side of my family Catholic, German, and traced history to the ancient Roman settlement of Trier Germany. Hell, the surname of my Germanic grandfathers side is Roman. No doubt our peoples had associations or lineages with the peoples of Charles "the hammer" Martel. The black side of my family is vastly Protestant and due to the historical circumstances of slavery in the U.S. we no little to nothing about that ancestral line extending into the coasts of Africa. So "black" becomes the donned label and identity (like "white" is in the U.S. but more so) and whatever cultural creations the black American community created for itself post-Africa. Seeing both sides I could see growing up the very different methods of thought. It relates even to racial matters. Catholics can be very racist, however due to their method of thought, civility is more ethnocentric and hence "acquirable" than the Calvinist Protestant method of thought which places heavy emphasis on genetics. So the dark mestizo Mexican or the black Brazilian is more "civilized" and esteemed to the degree they assimilate into the Eurocentric Latin Catholic paradigm - to the point they are more esteemed than a white pagan or a white Chechen Muslim. From my experience in the Protestant method of thought genetics are more the primary concern regarding "esteem" and "civility."

One of Brazil's greatest flaws - especially for mulatto and black Brazilians - is their lack of political savy or political "maturity." Brazil seems to have very aristocratic structures, and in this way her Catholic background I would suspect is more her weakness than her strength. Protestant view of creating a better world, of internal constant reformations, lends her culturally in the political sphere to question wherein her society is at and to address injustices as the times arise prepared to do so. Catholic mind set tends to see a better world in what has been in the past or what always been so to speak - in other words she is more traditional. While Liberation Theology changed some of this culturally in Latin America over the decades, I still think perhaps "traditional" mindset fosters much of the socio-political views in Latin America. Brazil however by all means is much, much, less "conservative" than many predominately Catholic nations. Nonetheless...

Personally I don't wish to see any racial group - so to speak - of people suffer. I would like to see everyone partake in the fruits and wealth and esteems of nations and this earth.

But as you see the U.S. as a better place for black peoples and yourself over Brazil, I see Brazil as a better place for mulattoes and mixed-race peoples and myself over the United States. But then this is another problem I have with American (USA) based discussions on race, it tends to see things in the binary view point of black vs white, where mixed-race peoples as such have little room or recognition in that paradigm of "race." Brazilian culture in U.S. based discussion is rarely (or perhaps never) approached from mixed-race paradigm of vision. American (USA) based discussions on race however have a history of looking through both Eurocentric lenses and Afrocentric lenses when assessing and creating judgments.

...
written by finn, January 12, 2007

Hey joao Heringer; hows Somalia these days? do you know what your fellowmen are doing with the BLACKS there?

Response to e-harmony
written by GC, January 12, 2007

I think you raised a very interesting point about the perception of "race" in the US versus Brazil. The notion of race in the US, and specifically the binary black/white issue, has its roots in the "one drop rule", a rule established during the Jim Crow era in many states to protect the purity of the white race by setting an "objective" definition of what it means to be white. The one drop rule basically stated that if one of your ancestors was black, going back three or four generations depending on the state, then you were black. And we have not recovered from it. The absudity of this rule made it such that whole families became black overnight simply because a great-great-grandparent happened to be black or mixed. It gave rise to commissions being set up to examine the lineage and heredity of "dubious"whites. You get the drift. To this day, we have internalized this rule which ironically makes the white heritage of any mixed individual the weak heritage as it is considered to be subsumed in the "dominant" non-white heritage, be it black, Latino, or Asian.

I would make two points about this:

1) It is ironic that the one-drop rule raised its ugly head during Jim Crow, more specifically at the beginning of the 20th century. Before that, American society did recognize and accept the existence of "mulattoes" as a group;

2) with the increasing diversity in the US, changing demographics due to disparate birth rates, and the increasing number of mixed marriages, it is a fact that the notions of black, white, Asian, Latino, etc. may lose their importance within a century or two in the US. We will be long dead by then, but it is a fact. It is also worth noting that there is a nascent movement in the US to recognize biracial people, no matter the mix, as a separate group: neither black, nor white, nor Asian, nor Latino, but rather representing the "true" American melting pot. It is highly unlikely that this movement will develop anytime soon in the deep South or in conservative areas of the US, but it is certainly taking off in major cities. One of my former college classmates, who is herself biracial (black/white), is a scholar on biracialism in the US so I have learned quite a bit from her on that topic.

Last but not least, and someone else pointed this out earlier, we should not forget that economic status also defines one's place in society alongside race. I think that is especially true in Brazil and in other societies where slavery existed (Colombia, Venezuela, the Caribbean, etc.) I am curious as to where mulattoes and mixed-race people in Brazil fit in that scheme. Are they any more accepted and successful than blacks? I have a hard time picturing this, but I could be wrong. My sense is that Brazil and many other countries establish more a of "caste" than a "class" system where the partitions are so rigid that the vast majority of blacks and or/poor people will never be allowed to break through those partitions. I think US society is quite a bit more fluid and a lot more forgiving in that respect. Even the notion of the US "underclass" that was so bandied about in the 80's has basically disappeared.

Somalia just yesterday dear Wells, study and maybe one day graduate
written by finn, January 12, 2007

Even the notion of the US "underclass" that was so bandied about in the 80's has basically disappeared

are you saying in America poor ppl are not diminished or prejudiced anymore? (I never heard so much non compassion for ppl who don't own a house and are called trailler white trash) I think the widening of the economic gap in US makes this unhappy feature more strong.About the articles subject I, as many, would like to hear your opinions on the recent civilian killing by Americcan troops in Somalia. I think, persons, why does US always attack weak countries and peoples? Don't you ppl get involved with those blacks as well or just the mixed blacks in Brazil get your attention?

...
written by Bienchido, January 13, 2007

"I can't answer incorrect questions, they would have only incorrect answers. First you will need to come up with data to back those assumptions of yours".

Assumptions? No, they are my personal observations, and anyone--including you--can make the same observation....unless, of course, you are so defensive you can not see what is infront of your face.

Ha!
written by Seth, January 13, 2007

In sheer numbers, the current situation in Brazil today is far worst than any period of human rights violations in US history.


Taking it out of context, yes. With an honest analysis, no.


Actually it is, but thanks for the comment.

Response to finn
written by GC, January 13, 2007

You wrote: "are you saying in America poor ppl are not diminished or prejudiced anymore? (I never heard so much non compassion for ppl who don't own a house and are called trailler white trash)"

I answer: not at all. Please re-read what I wrote. I am simply saying that there has been progress in the US. However, prejudice exists everywhere and it is certainly not dead in the US. Nor is it in Brazil, Europe, Africa, Asia or wherever else. Human nature drives us to always look for a group that we can oppress. Sad but true.

You wrote: "I think the widening of the economic gap in US makes this unhappy feature more strong."

OK. Let's talk about the economic gap in Brazil for a second. If it is bad in the US, I cannot imagine what the gap is between a resident of the notorious favelas or members of the landless movement, on the one hand, and the super-wealthy Brazilians I sometimes see driving around in Mercedes S600s in Florida. You see my point? Two can play that game, so it is not really a useful comment to make.

You wrote: "About the articles subject I, as many, would like to hear your opinions on the recent civilian killing by Americcan troops in Somalia. I think, persons, why does US always attack weak countries and peoples? Don't you ppl get involved with those blacks as well or just the mixed blacks in Brazil get your attention?"

Oh, please! What does Somalia have to do with anything? I mean, why does a segment of Brazilian society always seem to be murdering and maiming people in its quest for expansion in the Amazonian Basin? Why bother killing the first inhabitants of the land, the natives? Why bother killing an American nun in the process? What did she do to deserve such a fate? Get my drift? Senseless killings are not the monopoly of the US.

American foreign policy has been great at times (John Kennedy's Alliance for Progress, the Peace Corps, the Marshall Plan, the Fulbright Scholarship program, etc.) and disastrous at times. If anything, throughout the years, we have dished out death and destruction in equal portions around the globe (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc.) so deaths of civilians in Somalia are most certainly not a black-versus-white thing per se, no matter how you spin it. Again, not a useful point to make.

As for attention to mixed blacks in Brazil (interesting choice of words, by the way, why not "mixed whites"? could this be a Freudian slip?) read my earlier post on priorities in the African-American communities I know. Brazil is certainly NOT the top of my priorities. But it is an interesting intellectual discussion when the points made are sensible. When on the other hand, someone comes out with gutter-level anti-American sentiments that are not really germane to the discussion, hey, they get knocked around. 'Nuff said.

MLK's Day!
written by Costinha, January 13, 2007

The US celebrates next Monday (January 16th) the assassination aniversary of Dr. Martin Luther King killed by an race obsessed white supremacist. Dr. King spent his life fighting racial inequalities in the United States.

Did I mention racism in the US? Nouf Said...

Costinha

Costinha
written by GC, January 13, 2007

Two things:

1. We celebrate MLK's BIRTHDAY, not his assassination (which occurred on April 4, 196. And the holiday is on January 15, not 16. Maybe you should get such a simple fact straight.

2. Who said there was no racism in the US?

If you are going to use US colloquial expressions, at least spell them well. 'NUFF SAID ...
^^^^^
You people are really a piece of work. At least make it a point to read people's posts instead of making inferences that are just not there.

But I will say it again:

AS A BLACK PERSON, I will take life in the US with all its imperfections including racism ANY DAY over life in Brazil with all of its imperfections including racism .

If you are not black and keep posting the same drivel about how Brazil is so great for blacks, then maybe you should try to live as a black person in your country for a day. Maybe you will understand. But I seriously doubt that anyone would want to go through that exercise for a minute, much less a day. That says it all, doesn't it?

E-Harmony
written by Justa Joe, January 13, 2007

"I have a few questions though... if most Black American's ancestral lines run not from Brazil but from West Africa then why do so many black Americans care so much about what goes on in Brazil" - e harmony

E - Harmony, There is no obsession with what goes on in Brazil by black Americans. The great majority have very little interest. This is a Brazil forum so the discussions will center around Brazilian things. Having said that, Brazil is fascinating to Black Americans that have travelled there because it is billed as a col