Brazzil

In my last essay I cited João Vargas's term "the hyperconsciousness of race" to describe how racial denial and consciousness can occur simultaneously. Pedagogue Eliane Cavalleiro cites several examples of how values attached to race affect the daily interactions of Brazilian children.

For example, two children, one black, the other white, participate in a game in which they tease each other about which of them smells badly. As the game goes back and forth, the white child plays a "trump card" by saying, "I don't stink, I am white. You're the one who's black!!" At this point, the black child is shocked into silence (1).

As the accepted belief is that black people have a natural, unpleasant smell, the white child continues on her way secured in her whiteness and superiority, while the black child has been traumatized.

Another black child in Cavalleiro's research told a teacher that she didn't want to be black but wanted to be like Angélica (2) because "she is pretty" (3).

Then there is the story of the blond grandmother who found her grandchild in the bathtub vigorously scrubbing her skin with soap and water. When the grandmother asked why, the child replied, "I don't want to have the color of my father. I want to be like my mother". Both the grandmother and the mother of the child were white women with blond hair while the father of the child was black (4).

Examples such as these are common occurrences in Brazil and affect children, as well as adults, of African descent. Like examples I provided in my previous essay, the example of the mixed-race child provides more evidence to support my view that whether one has dark brown skin or some intermediary color between black and white (or better, brown and beige, peach and pink) the stigma of not being white can affect all who come short of the white ideal.
 
As I wrote in my previous essay, there is always a dispute about how to categorize Brazil's non-whites. There have been hundreds of studies that show that Brazil's whites and non-whites don't necessarily see intermediary colors between the black and white extremes as black as it happens in the US.

While on the surface, this certainly does appear to be true, it is necessary to look beneath the surface and between the lines to investigate the implications of such racial ideologies. My argument here is that while common, everyday Brazilians subscribe more to grades of color rather than race, white Brazilian elites or the middle and upper classes do indeed see things in terms of black and white.

In fact, I have seen enough examples that suggest that average Brazilians also adhere to such classifications if they are challenged. As whiteness is positioned at the top of the racial hierarchy and embodies the status that many desire, in order for a person to perceive themselves as white, others must be defined as non-white.

In this sense, it does not matter whether that person perceives him or herself as black, mixed race or Asian. With whiteness being the racial paradigm, it is fitting to understand the words of Muniz Sodré who tells us that "for such a paradigm, there is only white and the others...race is always the other" (5).

With the rise of scientific racism, it was the European who defined himself as white and superior while others were black or Oriental and thus inferior. Taking another example from Sodré, one would not classify a person as a mestiço if they were descended from Italians and French but would be classified as such if they descended from Nigerians and French (6).

To further elaborate on this point, I would like to consider an essay called "Whiteness as Property" by Cheryl Harris. Harris found "reputational interest in being regarded as white as a thing of significant value", a "form of status property"(7). Harris further states that:
 

"The concept of whiteness was premised on white supremacy rather than mere difference. "White" was defined and constructed in ways that increased its value by reinforcing its exclusivity. Indeed, just as whiteness as property embraced the right to exclude, whiteness as a theoretical construct evolved for the very purpose of racial exclusion. Thus, the concept of whiteness is built on both exclusion and racial subjugation." (8)
 
Keeping this definition of whiteness in mind, the Brazilian situation will be analyzed according to this definition in order to ascertain whether the power structure, race relations and racial representation conform to such a definition.

As I wrote in a previous essay, only 12 members of Brazil's 513 member Congress are black while only two of 81 senators are of African ancestry. And as it is well known among those who follow Brazilian social inequality, afrodescendentes earn approximately half the income of Brazilian whites, get less education and die younger.

Truth be told, Brazilians of color significantly lag behind those identified as white in nearly every category that is used to determine quality of life and social inequality (9), but here I would like to focus on racial representation and how it conforms to Harris's "whiteness as property" model.
 
Considering the lengths people go to differentiate between pretos and pardos, I have taken account of the way that Rede Globo portrays Brazilian people on its programming and have come to the conclusion that it doesn't seem to matter whether one is preto or pardo: they are both excluded.

This trend not only applies to Brazilian television, but is also blatantly apparent when one studies Brazil's mainstream print media. In my own research, I came across some very disturbing statistics. When I looked at the women's monthly magazine Marie Claire, I found that between February 2001 and October 2004, actress Taís Araújo (issue #158, May 2004) was the only woman with clearly African features that appeared on the magazine's cover.

Continuing my research, I also discovered that in 101 issues (August, 1996 to December 2004) of the magazine Corpo a Corpo, Araújo was again the only woman of clearly African descent. I stress here that there may have been more than a few women appearing on these covers that can count some African ancestry in their genetic make-up, but following Brazil's racial criteria of appearance over ancestry, Araújo would be the only black woman that graced the covers.
 
Following this same line of research, I decided to challenge the well-known Brazilian myth of the mulata as the national symbol of Brazilian beauty and most desirable sex partner for both Brazilian men and foreigners.

Jorge Amado's classic novels have consistently implied that the only thing that the Brazilian mulata has going for her is her beauty and her bedroom performances.

As this ideal is so thoroughly ingrained in Brazilian culture, surely the sex appeal of the so-called mulata would earn such recognition in Brazil's print media. The results paint a different picture.

Every year the magazine Isto É Gente publishes its "25 Most Sexy" men and women issue proclaiming Brazil's most sexy men and women in the entertainment field. Of the 200 people selected as "most sexy" over a four year period between the years 2002 and 2005, only 12 black men and women were voted into this select group. Of these 12, singer Preta Gil, daughter of musician and Minister of Culture Gilberto Gil, may be the one that raises the most eye brows when considering who is black in this group.

While there are those who fall into the category of the much celebrated morena/moreno category, many of the white Brazilians on the list represent a whiteness that would not be out of place in Europe. Perhaps they represent the "authentic whiteness" that the Portuguese could not quite provide (10).
 
In challenging this myth of the mulata, I also discovered that, in the blueprint magazine for the standard of female sensuality, beauty and sexuality, Playboy Brasil, of 94 issues from January of 1999 to October 2006, only one light-skinned mulata (Janaína dos Santos, October 2002) appeared on the cover of the Brazilian version of Playboy.

Some may also consider Mônica Carvalho (July 2001), but in the Brazilian context, she wouldn't count because, although her mother is black, phenotype takes precedence over ancestry in Brazil and she is most likely accepted as a branca de terra, a term that signifies a person who looks mostly white but is known to have black ancestors or some physical feature that is associated with blackness.

If the mulata is the symbol of female sexuality, one wouldn't know it by looking at the covers of Playboy magazine. Thus, judging Brazil by its most widely circulating magazine covers, the pride of mestiçagem has no place in this white ideal except as a necessary sacrifice on the way to official whiteness.
 
Mestiçagem: A Source of Pride or Transition into Whiteness?
 
While whiteness may be thought of in terms of skin color, as a representation of power, it is psychological consciousness. It represents the modern while everything else is seen as the past or primitive.

While the white Brazilian may proclaim himself to be proud of his racial mixture while in Brazil or in the presence of those who simply cannot pass for white, when he goes overseas, he cannot hide his true sentiments on the issue.

With Portugal's improved position as part of the European Union, Brazilian immigration has continued to increase to the former mother country. But Portugal is indeed part of Europe and racial mixture is not seen as a source of pride, neither in the real sense nor in the Gilberto Freyre "transition to whiteness" sense. According to Igor José de Renó Machado:
 
"In the reconstruction of imperial thought in Portugal there was no veiled intention to insert the idea of whitening in the racial classification system. This is due to the fact that racism is a given reality in the premises of the system which is clearly antimiscegenation." (11)
 
This last paragraph is important to understand because while racial mixture was deemed necessary to improve Brazil's racial portrait, thus erasing the "stain" of Africa (as well as native) that is prominent in the physical attributes of a large percentage of the Brazilian population, in Portugal, an acknowledged white country, this mixture is not necessary and not celebrated.

Gilberto Freyre (among others) coyly constructed and celebrated the idea of racial mixture as a prelude to the ultimate goal, a gradual process of whitening. This new celebration of mestiçagem worked to the advantage of the Brazilian elites who were eager to be accepted on the global stage as a white country.

But in Portugal, mestiçagem is a disadvantage to the Brazilian who has hopes of being accepted as white in Europe. Machado clarifies this point further when he states that:
 
"On the one hand, there is the Portuguese Lusophony order, which is openly hierarchical and considers Brazil as Mestizo, in an intermediary place between Black and White. On the other, there is the racial order in which Brazilians in Brazil are classed and which privileges the Mestizo category to the degree that it serves the concept of "Whitening"...(12)
 
Here Machado tells us that the Brazilian of mixed descent is hailed as being better than the "pure" afrodescendente, but only because they represent a closer step to the ideal of whiteness. In a genetic, and presumably phenotypic sense, the mestiço is only valuable as a step away from the blackness that the Brazilian is ashamed of.

In general terms, the mestiço is still seen as degenerate. While many Brazilians are quick to proclaim their whiteness, lurking in the shadows of consciousness, there is a fear that this "Brazilian whiteness" is not quite enough. These fears become reality in Portugal. Again, citing Machado:
 
"The clash between the two orders, both of which were legitimized by the same theory (created by Gilberto Freyre) arose from the fact that White Brazilians are seen as Mestizos in Portugal, suffering a lower status along with non-White Brazilians. The opposite happens with non-White Brazilians because they have a higher status than in Brazil, and they use this to justify their position in disputes between Brazilians.... Whitening does not exist in Portugal; once Mestizo, always Mestizo. In Brazil, miscegenation is the other face of a racial ideology of Whitening." (13)
 
Thus, in Portugal, the white Brazilian who in Brazil proclaims that "we are all mestiços", does not want to be recognized as such when he comes face to face with "true" whiteness. All the rhetoric about "we're all the same", and "I have black blood, too", goes out the window when he realizes that he is not accepted as white.

Suddenly, the white Brazilian who couldn't tell who was black or white in Brazil becomes very conscious of race when his own whiteness is brought into question or outright rejected. I can imagine his reaction: "No, no...I'm not mixed, I'm white!! That Brazilian over there, he's BLACK!!" Machado brings light to this scenario when he explains that:
 
"The conflict between the two different racial orders is the cause of the greater number of disputes of Brazilians among themselves and with the Portuguese. While in Brazil, miscegenation is an ambiguous strategy that makes racial classifications more flexible and disguises deep racism, in Portugal there is no ambiguity whatsoever: the racial order might be seen as Mestizo for the populations of the ex-colonies, but inside the Portuguese metropolis, you are either White or not.

"In the Portuguese order, Brazilians are Mestizos, but below White Portuguese and above Blacks and Africans. The problem is that the White Brazilian immigrants do not see themselves in this order and do not align themselves in the supposed racial Brazilian democracy with Blacks of their own proper nationality. But in Portugal, Brazilian Mestizos and Blacks have a chance to be "equal" to Brazilian Whites and more distant from African Blacks, the most discriminated class (emphasis mine). (14)
 
Thus, the white Brazilian who claims to disagree with the bi-polar, black/white racial model is ready to conform to it as long as he can be on the "winning team". If he truly accepted the idea that all Brazilians are mestiços (in the social, as well as, the genetic sense) he wouldn't voice such violent rejection of the established racial order in Portugal. He would see himself and his more obviously afrodescendente countryman as brothers.

On the other hand, the afrodescendente finally has his chance to be on equal footing with his whiter Brazilian brother as they are both seen as mestiços in the former colonizing country. Again, if mestiçagem was the source of pride that it is proclaimed to be, why wouldn't the "white Brazilian" accept his position in the Portuguese racial hierarchy?
 
While inter-racial relations are proclaimed to be proof of a "racial democracy", there appear to be cracks in the armor of defense that expose themselves when closely scrutinized.

For instance, Laura Moutinho (15), in her investigation of inter-racial relationships in middle-class Rio de Janeiro, finds that there is often times an unspoken discomfort in white middle-class environments when a white male or female introduces their black partner into their social circles.

The stares and sudden disassociations put the black partner on notice that their relationship is not as accepted as Brazilian society would have one believe. One guy interviewed by Moutinho expresses the opinion that "patricinhas" (16) of Rio would not consider going out with a black guy if a white guy was available (17).
 
During twenty months of ethnographic research in Rio, Alexander Edmonds was told by various informants that they would have "more difficulty dating a black man than a white man of an inferior social class" implying that race influences one's mate selection more than class within middle-class Carioca social cliques (18).

Kabengele Munanga, professor of anthropology at Universidade de São Paulo acknowledges the stares his family attracts in public places when he appears with his white wife, mulato children and black children from a previous marriage (19).
 
The historic reality of interracial relations in Brazil is another facet of social and racial inequality. Comparing official statistics from 1960 to 1991, interracial marriages have increased from 12.6% in 1960 to 23.1% in 1991 (20).

What this means is that the majority of miscegenation that occurred in Brazil over the centuries is due to mainly two factors. 1) White male sexual exploitation of black and Indian women and, 2) The Afro-Brazilian obsession with whitening the skin color of their descendents. In reality, the overwhelming majority of miscegenation has occurred among the lower classes and outside the confines of marriage.
 
The sexual exploitation of black women is yet another weapon of domination and exploitation of white supremacy in Brazil. While many Brazilian historians would like to sugarcoat the past, the simple truth is that miscegenation is the result of the widespread rape of black and Indian women.

Thus it is utterly shocking, repugnantly chauvinistic and lacking of any kind of regard for human decency to read the words of an Argentine found in the Brazzil forum section. The author is apparently trying to argue why the Portuguese were less racist than the British during the slavery eras in the US and Brazil:
 
"....the Portuguese whites simply fucked more with their slaves than the U.S. whites. Even in such a case, they were less racist than the US. whites because they showed less repugnance to fuck with black females. To avoid fuck with blacks is a symbol of racism, a symbol of repugnance to other races. I' m not saying I feel repugnance about fucking with blacks, do not misunderstand me, I only say that if a white man does accept less to fuck with a black woman, surely it is because he feel repugnance to that race, or at least more repugnance than a white that fucks as much black woman as he can." (21)
 
Justifying the rape of black women as a means of legitimizing a "racial democracy" is not only sick, it is subhuman, lacking in any sort of critical thinking and typical of the patriarchal, Western male's view of women. There is nothing democratic about rape. It is a means of exerting power and dominance over another human being. This has nothing to do with proving a lack of racism. In fact, it is another example of racism and "racial democracy" coming together.

Allow me to also point out the fact that men have been known to have sexual relations with not only women, but other men, children and even animals. Is this some proof of sexual attraction or a serious deprivation of human, as well as moral consciousness?

Rape during wars or colonization is nothing new. The treatment of women of color in pre-Republic Brazil can be legitimately compared to that of women of colonized countries by the male members of the colonizing country.

Whether one is to speak of the rape of Algerian women by French men during colonization, or Americans in Vietnam, rape is a means of one group displaying and maintaining dominance over another group (22). It is also based on "traditional views of women as property and often as sexual objects"(23).

Women may also be targets of rape because they are members of racial, ethnic or religious groups (24), confined to simple roles of reproductive organs in order to bear children of the enemy (25). Let us keep this in mind when we consider Brazil's population of mestiços.
 
Footnotes

1. Cavalleiro, Eliane. Do Silêncio do Lar ao Silêncio Escolar: Racismo, preconceito e discriminação na educação infantil. 2nd Printing. Editora Contexto. São Paulo. 2003.

2. Angélica Ksyvickis, a popular blonde who has been host of several children's variety programs on television networks TV Manchete, SBT and Rede Globo. She currently hosts the Rede Globo Saturday morning variety show Estrelas. She is also the wife of popular TV show host Luciano Huck.

3. Cavalleiro, Eliane. Do Silêncio do Lar ao Silêncio Escolar: Racismo, preconceito e discriminação na educação infantil. 2nd Printing. Editora Contexto. São Paulo. 2003.

4. Faustino, Oswaldo. "Consciência Negra começa cedo". Raça Brasil. Issue 80. November 2004. http://www2.uol.com.br/simbolo/raca/080/materia5a_80.htm

5. Sodré, Muniz. Claros e Escuros: Identidade, povo e mídia no Brasil. Editora Vozes. Editora Vozes. Petrópolis. 1999

6. Ibid

7. Harris, Cheryl. "Whiteness as Property". Harvard Law Review, Vol. 106, No. 8, June 1993.

8. Ibid

9. There are literally hundreds of studies that have documented the depths of social inequality in Brazil according to race (see for example, Edward Telles, 2004, Jacques d'Adesky, 2001, Elisa Larkin Nascimento, 2003, Michael Hanchard, 1999, Rebecca Reichmann, 1999)

10. Souza, Maria Adélia Aparecida de. "Milton por Maria Adélia" in Souza, Maria Adélia Aparecida de (editor). O mundo do cidadão. Um cidadão do mundo. Hucitec, 1996. Nossa Casa website. Available online April 23, 2004. http://nossacasa.net/dire/texto.asp?texto=68l

11. Machado, Igor José de Renó. "Brazilian Immigration and the Reconstruction of Racial Hierarchies of the Portuguese Empire". Vibrant: Virtual Brazilian Anthropology. Volume 1. Número 1/2 Janeiro a Dezembro de 2004

12. Ibid

13. Ibid

14. Ibid

15. Moutinho, Laura. "Zonas de sombra e silêncio". Revista Democracia Viva (online). IBASE-online - No 6, Rio de Janeiro, January 30, 2004. http://www.ibase.br/pubibase/cgi/cgilua.exe/sys/start.htm?infoid=546&sid=140

16. Term somewhat equivalent to the American "Valley girl". The 1995 film Clueless starring actress Alicia Silverstone is a good example. The movie was also translated as As Patricinhas de Beverly Hills for its Brazilian film release.

17. Moutinho, Laura. Zonas de sombra e silêncio. Revista Democracia Viva (online). IBASE-online - No. 19, Rio de Janeiro, January 30, 2004. http://www.ibase.br/pubibase/cgi/cgilua.exe/sys/start.htm?infoid=546&sid=140

18. Edmonds, Alexander. "No Universo da Beleza: Notas de Campo sobre Cirurgia Plástica no Rio de Janeiro," in M. Goldenberg (ed). Nu & Vestido: dez antropólogos revelam a cultura do corpo carioca. Rio de Janeiro: Record, 2002

19. Estudos Avançados. "A difícil tarefa de definir quem é negro no Brasil": Entrevista de Kabengele Munanga". Estudos Avançados. 18 (50), 2004. http://www.scielo.br/pdf/ea/v18n50/a05v1850.pdf

20. Censo Brasileiro de 1991 and IBGE Censo Demográfico (1960) as cited in Edward Telles's Racismo à brasileira, Rio de Janeiro, Lumará. 2003. I would also like to consider the findings of Luisa Farah Schwartzman who suggested in her essay "Does Money Whiten? Educational Mobility of Parents and Racial Classification of Children in Brazil", interracial marriage statistics, like Brazilian color/race statistics, cannot be taken as 100% accurate. Brazilians often classify themselves and their spouses according to their own perceptions of "race" and color. Research has shown that two Brazilians of African descent may classify themselves in two different "racial"/color categories depending on which partner has lighter skin color, straighter hair, etc. Thus, if two "pardos" are classified as a "branco/parda" couple, it would affect intermarriage statistics.

21. Diaz, Pablo. "A Response to Mark Wells." Brazzil. Forum. http://www.brazzilrace.com/viewtopic.php?t=6

22. Hoglund, Dr. Anna T. "Gender and War". Whydah: Information and Policy Magazine. Volume 11, Nos. 1 & 2. January - June 2002. ISSN 1015-4957. http://www.aasciences.org/whydah/feature3.htm

23. Amnesty International USA. "Stop Violence Against Women: Rape as a Tool of War". http://www.amnestyusa.org/stopviolence/factsheets/rapeinwartime.html

24. Ibid

25. Zajovic, Stasa. "The political uses of religion, culture and ethnicity". Women Against Fundamentalisms. Journal number 7. 1995. http://waf.gn.apc.org/journal7p13.htm
 
This is part six of a multi-piece article.
 
Mark Wells holds a bachelor's degree in Anthropology from the University of Michigan-Dearborn and is currently working on a Master's Degree in Social Justice at Marygrove College in Detroit, Michigan. He can be reached at quilombhoje72@yahoo.

© 2007 Mark Wells

Comments (153)

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Oh no!
written by The American Historian, January 22, 2007

Oh no Mark, you are about to really get ripped to pieces. Duck everybody......

Mark Wells is trying to fool us
written by A brazilian, January 22, 2007

Taking a closer look at your "footnotes", from this article and others, we can carefully notice that these "sources" are no more than like-minded people, i.e., people interested in implementing an anglo-saxon mentality in Brazil. These aren't data found by chance, by neutral people, or by something undeniably visible. But instead it is a carefully crafted line of reasoning produced to support an existing agenda, the agenda of groups who see Brazil as an anomaly in a soon-to-be-american world.

Extensive use of rethoric for fooling the reader in thinking this is careful and deep analylsis, made up facts, and agenda promotion, nothing more. Oh yes, and you love to cite other countries, don't you? Especially some with some mentality similar to the anglo-saxon one. What Europe has anything to do with Brazil of today? If you use their mentality as guidance than you will see racism everywhere!

Any brazilian would quickly tell you that Portugal means zero to the reality of Brazil today. Nobody cares. Europeans are assumed to be racist, nobody would think otherwise of the portuguese, or of any other people from that continent.

Let's start from the beginning. Some little stories told by you, willing to prove a point of course, of some hipothetical situations people, supposedly, would like to be different. Have you ever searched for other cases? I ask because where I am from people that are too white (the color of the background of this forum) often feel embarassed about it. Whiteness definetely is not a goal, especially if it is the "american white" standard of women with flat asses and less curves.

I have a relative that wouldn't use shorts because he was too white and would feel embarassed about it, or at least he used to be that way a long time ago (he probably is grown up now, don't care about such things anymore). Another case was one of the girlfriends I had, that despite of being blonde with blue eyes, she would tell me how her friend, a morena, was pretty and how she had a great body and all.

Your little stories are no more than devices to shock the readers, a kind of "I am going to tell the ugly truth now". Did the above stories shocked anyone? I am sure any brazilian can come up with more.

The bottomline is that whiteness is not a symbol of beauty or of goal in life.

Then you go about "scientific racism", that among other things were practiced in the US too under the name of "eugenics" and in the Europe led to what we saw in the WWII. What does it have to do with Brazil!? Even if that's correct, the brazilian elites worried about that, which seems plausible since by the end of the 19th (oh yes, I know you like to use the 19th century in you dirty stories) Brazil was no more than a big farm, how this relates to the supposed "racial problem" in Brazil?

So you are complaining that the elites purposefully blurred the lines between races? That we now can't clearly classify this or that in the same than the US? I say this is a gift, not something to be frowned upon. This is decisive in the creation of a genuine brazilian identity, in opposition to an european one or an african one.

Besides, in your logic there's a flaw, if the brazilians elites worried about Portugal and what Europe in general thought, wouldn't "mixing the races" do the exact opposite than what they intended. I mean, instead of "whitening" they would "blacken" everyone up and therefore, be classified as black by the Europeans? If they were really worried about that shouldn't they take measures to prevent mixing and maintain a well defined structure in society, the same way it was done in the US?

Do you realize that this argument of yours is simply illogical?


Continue...

Mestizo is the future, you like it or not
written by A brazilian, January 22, 2007

Then you go all the way to tell the "sad moment of truth" of the brazilian in Portugal. Once again, it could be the US, it makes no differece. What happens here is just the author trying to apply his vision to Brazil. If he cited the US it would be too obvious, so he decided to use Portugal, that probably he thought it would be closer to Brazil and brazilians could relate to it.

Brazilian immigration has continued to increase to the former mother country

"Mother country" !? Do you know how many jokes we have about portuguese? Everyone blames them for our problems (although this is ridiculous and unjustified, Brazil has been a free country for hundreds of years) I am just pointing this out for the foreigner read not to think Brazil and Portugal are very close countries. The only difference that makes Portugal closer than, let's say, Norway is that Portugal is part of the brazilian history, but the culture is completely different.

Again, if mestiçagem was the source of pride that it is proclaimed to be, why wouldn't the "white Brazilian" accept his position in the Portuguese racial hierarchy?

What!? Any racial hierarchy is stupid! What nonsense is that? I wouldn't accept anything of the kind in any country, not even the US, nor should any brazilian. So you accept to be a sub-race in the US? Good luck with that, but I live in Brazil.

All the rhetoric about "we're all the same", and "I have black blood, too", goes out the window when he realizes that he is not accepted as white.

No, my friend. All bigotry either from americans or europeans isn't accepted, just that. If you are used to give you place in the bus for whites in the US, it's your problem, but in Brazil we don't need to lower our heads, blacks, whites or mestizos!

Finally, you attack "interracial" (what an ugly word) relationships. Do you know what "patricinha" means? It's a kind of rich and stupid girl, that wear very expensive clothes and walk only with rich people, everything paid by "dad". This kind of people is NOT representative of a country with millions of poors!! They will treat ANYONE that's not as rich as they are, that doensn't travel to all places in the world like they do, that doesn't have a great car, like s**t!

Boy, this is like studying the american society by looking at the top 2% of the pyramid, and take conclusions about everything based on that! Do you think that will be accurate!

Have you ever thought about learning something from Brazil instead of attacking it? What you are saying in these articles is simply the vision of an anglo-saxon, and his effort to force the anglo-saxon mentality upon Brazil. It's a sequence of senseless things of someone that never lived in here. So sopa operas, your "studies" from other activists, and other little stories from activists form any evidence we can trust, other than your bias you were set to believe since the beginning?

Brazil is centuries ahead of the US in terms of race. I hope someone Google this line 150 year from now. They will read your nonsense and laugh, all those future mestizos living in a globalized world. No more lines between races, THIS IS THE FUTURE.

Any Brazilian respond
written by Lyle Davis, January 23, 2007

Is there any "white" Brazilian poster that can say they are NOT mixed with African or Indian blood? I don't understand why these Brazilians attack these articles so vociferously. No matter what you look like on the outside, your genes tell the story and eventually your worst nightmare will come to pass. You will be the grandparent of a non-European looking child.

Para Lyle
written by A brazilian, January 23, 2007

Here comes another gringo talking about genes. Are you aware that there's no pure anything? Are you aware that in anyone's blood, and I really mean anyone, it will be found traces of many peoples across the history!? Simply because populations and individuals migrated all the time due to many factors.

What do you mean by that? Do you believe that there are actually "pure white Aryans" around!? Do you believe in faery tales too? These american blacks are the worst Nazis there is. They repeat the same story as those KKK people!! It's not a surprise that the same dysfunctional society generated both kinds of abominations, it's like a germ and the antibody.

You really deserve each other.

...
written by bo, January 23, 2007

Mark Wells is trying to fool us
written by A brazilian, 2007-01-22 21:53:25

Can you explain to ALL of us, how your grammar, syntax, spelling, and vocabulary have improved dramatically from numerous previous posts???

Go ahead, you guys, or gals, ignore this post, as you did the other!

Folks, A Brazilian and E Harmony are either the same person, or numerous people posting under the same name that are making posts that they figure will "get a rise" out of some in an attempt to keep, or gain, traffic to this site.

Article
written by GTY, January 23, 2007

While I agree that Brazil is as racist a country as racists as any other, the title of the article using the word "Ashamed" is just to inflame this blog and shows that Wells is a racist himself. The same tactics are used by the American Nazi Party and their assorted nut jobs here in the US and other right wing groups throughout the world. They claim to be intellectuals, but their arguments are based in myth and promote their own political agenda. I would encourage the masters of this page to review Wells postings and find them for what they are, racists dribble that should not be posted to help promote his hateful agenda. Give us better than that. Don't try arguing with Wells, his arguments are created among his buddies in barns and cellars through out America, there is no changing his ideology of hate. I would however ask him to provide proof that he is actually a graduate of the university he claims in the footnotes. my guess is that he is a drop out from some backwoods Southern highschool where he chased farm animals for his sexual pleasure and was beat to s**t by his drunken father.

...
written by Luca, Rome, January 23, 2007

"Racial consciousness" what an horrible world
There's only one human race.

...
written by O Gringo Negro fala, January 23, 2007

I'd just like to congratulate Mr. Wells for unmasking the self-delusions white Brasilians have about the racial dynamics in Brazil. I have been following his work for several years since I first read an article of his destroying the vaunted Janer Cristaldo, he of the Ph.D from the Sorbonne, journalist, lawyer, philospher, the author of several vile screeds regarding the racialization processes of Brazilian society, e.g.,"The Mulatto is Proof Brazil has no Racism", and whose writing inevitably upholds the privileges and entitlements of white elites all over this planet. And then there is the Cristaldo acolyte, the equally ridiculous John Fitzpatrick, ex-patriot Scottish, bon vivant chronicler of Paulista highlife, who is forever prattling on about that of which he knoweth not, as in the last article printed regarding Darfur, and Brazil's relations with Africa. These contributors, who are clearly the most erudite defenders of the "myth of racial democracy" in this magazine, have yet to provide the readership with any sort of reposte to Mr. Wells. The other critical responses posted by the readership are really infantile gasps of recognition of itself in the face of the picture of the racism of the white, Brazilian elites, so admirably painted by Mr. Wells. After all, this readership is composed of fluent Enlgish speaking and writing persons, who from appearances are Brasilians who are living, or have lived abroad. By definition this excludes probably 99.9% of the Brazilian population who are visibly Afro descended.

These contemporary defenders of the myth of racial democracy remind me of white Americans of the 1950's, who defended segregation. They articulate the same arguments of white Southerner's in particular, who railed against the civil rights movement here in the U.S.. I am continually amazed that these Brazilian supporters of Brazilian apartheid mouth these antiquated and universally disgarded arguments as if they have some significance simply because they are proferred in the allegedly "unique" context of Brazil. The arguments were flawed then, and they're stil flawed, but now are clearly simplistic and completely transparent, at least to those who pay attention to such matters.

Mr. Wells does pay attention. Brazilians who truly desire to understand the racial dynamics of that country ought pay attention. If you wish to reject the portrait as painted by Mr. Wells because it emanates from a U.S. citizen, take the time to read the works of Brazilian authors and academics cited in the footnotes. However, I would suggest that the autheticity of what Mr. Wells concludes is equally anchored on the experience of being Afro-descended, which has the same poltical, economic and social conseequences all over the Western Hemisphere, to wit: a location specific variation on the same theme. BTW, a shout out to The American Historian.... I feel you.
.

...
written by Luca, Rome, January 23, 2007

Racial labelling is evil. Racist people do that and it is absurd that we create human groups using the same evil criteria supposedly to fight that very same evil criteria! It’s both insane and consistent with race obsessessed cultures.

The idea of racial pride is the most Nazi i.e. disgusting thing I can think of and fostering it because of a very good cause (i.e. fighting discrimination against people of color) is like building a paradise with the devil’s tools.

A people, a nation should be proud of their cutural-historical traditions which they share with other people from the same cultural and historical background *regardless* of the fact that they (might) also share the same physical appereances! Skin pigmentation is a biological thing and anyone who use it to create human groups according not to positive things like laguage, culture but employing a racial/biological criteria is racist and a humanity-divider.

It is 100% good to promote, for example, the great cultural and historical tradition of Brazilian people of African descent (whatever their culture) which the “white man" from Italy who’s writing this loves, but not because they are black but because they went through the same historical/cultural processes.

Until there’ll be fools around who talk and promote pigmentation-based pride the world will be always divided! Let’s divide the world beteween racists and non racists.

Then I do agree that we should all fight discrimination against people of color but we should do it all together not dividing ourself in black whites and other 10000 different shades...with the very same criteria used by racists!

So I agree that quotas are necessary because racist people discriminate people of color thus preventing them to access education and work or create a better life but let's not racialize society with studid things like white or black pride, whereas I support those who support the afrobrazilian traditions...of all colours.

ERRATA CORRIGE
written by Luca, Rome, January 23, 2007

*Errata corrige*

It is 100% good to promote, for example, the great cultural and historical tradition of Brazilian people of African descent (WHATEVER THEIR SKIN COLOR / NOT: whatever their culture)

The gringo negro wrote a lot but said nothing
written by A brazilian, January 23, 2007

Just repeated the same old Civil Rights talk, comparing Brazil to that time in the US, ignoring there's no segregation in Brazil and never was.

Brazil, racially speaking, is what the US will be in a few centuries of immigrant influx and mixing. There's no way back now.

...
written by Luca, Rome, January 23, 2007

The fact that Brazil is a more racially mixed country does not mean it is more or less racist than the US!
I would just say that in Brazil people of different shades are more united from a cultural point of view than whites and blacks in the US (and it's getting worse every year in the US) but on the other hand, "Black" Brazilians fare a lot worse than US blacks from a social/economical point of view (and things don't seem to change much...).
But Brazilian whites are very racist too, those who deny it are liars. I know some stupid people from Ipanema/Leblon or Southern Brazil who're modern day nazis.

G magazine
written by P., Europe, January 23, 2007

Quite curiously "G magazine" has featured disproportionately many Black male models on his cover and in the inner layouts...

...
written by Bienchido, January 23, 2007

This past Christmas I gave my two Brazilian (Bahian) stepdaughters (who are both mestizo/pardo), dolls, one a white-skinned doll and one a darker-skinned doll. The girl who got the darker-skinned doll was dissapointed, and she said her doll was "uglier" than the white-skinned doll, despite the fact the her skin color almostsmatches the dark-skinned doll and the vast majority of people in her community are black, mestizo or pardo. Her words and dissapointment spoke volumes about how whiteness is valued in Brazilian media and society, and that the message is learned very early in life.

Bienchido
written by A brazilian, January 23, 2007

Using the same logic, what does the situation I wrote earlier about a blonde ex-girlfriend of mine telling how her morena friend was pretty tell about racism?

Luca
written by A brazilian, January 23, 2007

But Brazilian whites are very racist too, those who deny it are liars. I know some stupid people from Ipanema/Leblon or Southern Brazil who're modern day nazis.

That's like saying that french people are a*****es because you knew a couple of unpleasant people once you were in Paris. Do you realize how ridiculous would such conclusion be?

Brazil is not racist, but nothing prevents a few intellectual midgets from being so.

...
written by Bribetaker, January 23, 2007

Mr. GTY is so right!

...
written by jabmalassie, January 23, 2007

Here we go again.

...
written by get a life ppl, January 23, 2007

A people, a nation should be proud of their cutural-historical traditions which they share with other people from the same cultural and historical background *regardless* of the fact that they (might) also share the same physical appereances! Skin pigmentation is a biological thing and anyone who use it to create human groups according not to positive things like laguage, culture but employing a racial/biological criteria is racist and a humanity-divider.

It is 100% good to promote, for example, the great cultural and historical tradition of Brazilian people of African descent (whatever their culture) which the “white man" from Italy who’s writing this loves, but not because they are black but because they went through the same historical/cultural processes

I am completely sorry but I have a lot more to do do than reading all the nonsense written in this Brazzil ridiculous site....

Luca você é uma coisa rifícula demais para existir.... Are you Brazilian? because if you were a foreigner than I could understand just a little all absurd you have been written... BTW, I am a devil white Brazilian hahahah.

Shortly, the African culture is just simply THE official culture of Brazil, the most celebrated, loved, institutionalized etc etc vide the African Culture Museum in São Paulo, samba, axé, capoeira, pagode, all the black artists in Brazil... definetely people GET A LIFE ALREADY!!! , get something to do with your lives! : p

Bark Well or Mark Fell or whatever the hell is your name!
written by Costinha, January 23, 2007

What is your agenda? I'm not being rude - you really are stupid!

This is part six of a messed-up piece article.


Bark Well holds a bachelor's degree in Bull$hittology from the University of Michigan-Queerborn and is currently working on a Master's Abation in Social Injustice at Marydrove Colleague in Detroit, Michigan. He can be bleached at quilomanjaro24@yahoo.


© 2007 Bark Well or Mark Fell or wathever

...
written by Costinha, January 23, 2007

Mr. GTY is so white!

PS. GTY = Great Turd Yankee

Bienchido Maricon
written by Costinha, January 23, 2007

I know you have standards. I know you have ambitions. I know you’re a$$hole bulges outside of your Richard Simmons brand hot pants like a freakish Camel Toe!


hehehe

The American Historian
written by Costinha, January 23, 2007

I used to think that you were an insufferable bore, but now I have a much lower opinion of you... The only difference between you and a bucket of $hit is the bucket.

hehehe

Gringo Negro Gringo Negro Gringo Negro Gringo Negro
written by Costinha, January 23, 2007

Did you fail an urine test?

From Singapore
written by G. Chell, January 23, 2007

Based on economic performance white skinned Brazilians are faring much more poorly than the dark skinned orientals in Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Hnng Kong and China, and in some cases blacker than black Singaporeans and Malaysians of South Indian origin. I would like to ask these Brazilian whites one question, "where is your supremacy compared to the dark skinned orientals?

O Gringo Negro Fala
written by The American Historian, January 23, 2007

Thanks for the support. There may be light at the end of the tunnel, but it is a long tunnel. The Cheyenne Indians of North America believe every moment on this earth we encounter a reflection of ourselves. Too often, we don't like that reflection and you see the ensuing results.

...
written by Simpleton, January 24, 2007

From the start I found this article just so inciteful and informative - NOT. Parsed through most of it but still got nothing of value.

First, in regards to bodiferous odors, I'm the one that stinks. Other that a poor old ex-pro in her sixties or seventies living on the street and a mid to upper teens flat chested girl living with the beach bums that had been true beach bums for the past one, two or more decades, I've never noticed Braziians emmanating anything that would cause me to think they smelled bad (and they don't even cover everything with heavy parfums like the Ital business professionals!) So why did this childs parents, aunts, uncles and or grandparents plant this seed of an idea that she should pop her dark skinned playmate into a deeply disconcerting state of mind with a statement she couldn't possibly have concluded from her own lifes experiences? I'm so glad that I didn't have contact with one of my granddads other than a short holiday every other year or so when I was little. I recognized quite quickly in my mid to late teens that he was bigoted but at least by that time I could think for myself and reject those feelings, tendancies, ideals, etc..

Yes, there have been other writtings on what was / had been purportedly done long long ago in regards to the lightening in Brazil. Clearly it's of no present day relevance other than the conceptional preferences that are being handed down from generation to generation and which I have observed in but one family of darker heritage.

Anyhow here's a requote of someone elses original ideas from above, I just modified a word or two to bring proper focus:

"Based on economic performance tite skinned Brazilians are farting much more poorly than the shark skinned orientals in Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Hnng Kong and China, and in some cases slacker than flack Singaporeans and Malaysians of South Indian origin. I would like to ask these Brazilian tites one question, "where is your pregnancy compared to the shark skinned orientals? "

...
written by G. Chell, January 24, 2007

To answer Simpleton's question the breeding ability of the tite skinned Brazilian is considerably higher than that of the shark skinned orientals. Here the government is trying to increasing the collapsing birth rate.

...
written by Simpleton, January 24, 2007

To G. yes, I believe. No need for qoutes or published statistics to back up what you say.

When hanging out at the bar for mens, an aquaintance that is a working stiff running a local internet cafe observes to me what the average gringo would think about the young neighborhood girl that comes by and very directly tries to interact with this old couldn't give a sh_t and never goes home other than alone a-whole: His comments came after the girl left and I pointed out just how much I marveled at what an incredibly flat tummy she had. She was dressed conservatively but this physical feature even in colder weather garb stood out as very unique. He says "See, there's a difference, when you look at girls here you only see pu?a and you have invitation but you don't go with her, when I look or any brasileiro here looks at a girl like this we see only beautifal girl, if she talks to us like this - boom we go and after only one time ..." and he makes the shape sign of 11 months pregnant destroying that phenomanally flat tummy image.

...
written by Branco, January 24, 2007

Nunca indignou a consciência democrática brasileira o fato de você entrar numa sala de aula de uma universidade pública e só ver branco lá. E ao sair no corredor ver só negros na limpeza e na vigilância. Em São Paulo, até o início dos anos 50, havia normas que dificultavam o acesso de crianças negras à escola

...
written by jabmalassie, January 24, 2007

Simpleton.

I didn't catch all of what you are saying.

G. Chell
written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007

Are you stupid? There's nobody supremacy here. The same cannot be said of the US.

Simpleton, I didn't understand what you said.

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written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007

Nunca indignou a consciência democrática brasileira o fato de você entrar numa sala de aula de uma universidade pública e só ver branco lá. E ao sair no corredor ver só negros na limpeza e na vigilância.

No meu trabalho eu vejo negros trabalhando em trabalhos que exigem qualificação (nível superior ou maior) e gente loira do olho azul limpando o chão. Mas eu nunca parei para pensar a respeito disso.

...
written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007

BTW, this is the kind of defamation created by these Nazi articles, the Chell guy simply states that there's a supremacy here, ignoring not only the evidence otherwise but also what brazilians say. That's why brazilians need to voice against such idiots, a person that don't know Brazil might have the wrong idea because of these american segregationists.

I think it's too hard for their ego to recognize that there are countries that managed to solve the problem of race. They will to lower us to their level.

...
written by bo, January 24, 2007

I think it's too hard for their ego to recognize that there are countries that managed to solve the problem of race

Doesn't he ever get tired of showing everyone his ignorance?

...
written by P., Europe, January 24, 2007

Taís Araújo fez de Preta, sua personagem em Da Cor do Pecado, a primeira protagonista negra na história das novelas da Rede Globo.

Auto lá!
written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007

Nós temos nesse fórum pessoas chamando o Brasil de um país 50% preto e pardo (como se fosse tão simples classificar assim e como se isso fosse algum tipo de oposição ao restante do país), e outros citando mitos sobre mistura entre portugueses, espanhóis e mouros, e que isso prova que eles não são "brancos". E tampouco italianos são brancos, pois eles também "se misturaram".

E como que depois dizem que Taís Araújo foi a primeira? Se isso tudo que disseram fosse correto, logicamente, muitas pessoas "não-brancas" já foram protagonistas de novelas.

Se isso não é correto, então eu acredito que você deveria deixar claro para os leitores que você discorda do dito por esses ativistas que pregam a segregação.

Tais Araujo
written by The American Historian, January 24, 2007

Tais and Camila Pitanga would probably get mote television and movie work in the U.S. than they do in Brazil. Black American filmmakers and increasingly white filmakers are employing actresses like Rosario Dawson, Zoe Saldana, Dania Ramirez all the time. The Spanish language television stations almost never hire Afro-Latinas. I know A Brazilian--what do these Spanish language folks have to do with Brazil, but the situation does not seem to be much better where you folks speak Portugese. Adriana Lima gets more work in the U.S. and Europe than she would in Brazil.

...
written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007

Huh!? Good for her! So what?

The contradiction with activists is that sometimes is convenient to call everyone black, some other times some distinction is used like the one you have just done.

A Brazilian
written by The American Historian, January 24, 2007

You sound increasingly exhausted and worn out A Brazilian. I think Mark Wells, bo and myself have given you a good workout. Just admit that everything we say is right and you are wrong. We can agree Brazilian women look great even if your society has some racism. How about that for a deal? And Ana, what ever happened to you and Adrianna? We need a woman's touch again.

...
written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007

I can only interpret that as sarcasm.

A Brazilian
written by GTY, January 24, 2007

Do you have a life? How can you comment on every posting in such short time?

...
written by Simpleton, January 25, 2007

Oh GTY, why so provocative? Of course many of us have no life except that which we look to the future to in our dreams. You have a good dream?

Sorry to all for my drunken stupor and complexity in writing stories of what I observe amongst more common folk in this world. Of course you do not understand all of what I am saying. Even without the difficulties of language and curltural differences, you would have a difficult time of this on many occasions. Complexidade em tudo. (O ache idiota com amor-perfieto.)

After thanking G. Chell for his answer to my question (an answer with which I agree with without question or demanding proof of its accuracy or authenticity in any way) I went on to tell a story of normal people having a normal after work social hour dscussing differneces in perception, treatment and reactions of typical gringo turistas (unlike Maluco's like myself) and what the local guys would think and do. Now that I go back and read what I said, I see it was totally out of place in this thread. I made no mention of any ones color in the story, I did not say one persons ideals, perceptions, actions (or inactions in my case) were better, more honest or more right than someone elses. Good God - listen carefully - let the good peoples of this world be. (Let it be, let it be ... da da da da da da, there will be an answer, let it be.)

...
written by Rosana, January 25, 2007

Yes,there's is segregation in Brazil . brazlian whites are racist!

...
written by A brazilian, January 25, 2007

Segragation, mixing, something is wrong with this logic. If there were segregation there would be no mixing and we would be like the US.

...
written by A brazilian, January 25, 2007

I think the black and white americans teaming up against Brazil's culture is an example of what's going on in this site. Giving other people certain names is common, it is used for identifying what belongs to a group and what does not. But when you want to force your conceptions upon others, then this is an exercise of power. What we see here with this "racism" talk about Brazil is simply an attempt to gain power over Brazil, first by claiming its virtues are a lie, then by trying to replace its culture with an alien one.

The culture comes from the elite, not from the people, unlike some might think. It's prerrogative of the powerful to establish the values. Brazil has established its own values and mixing is at the core of brazilianity, to the point of brazilians not identifying others by race. This "independence" of the brazilian culture is not well seen by americans, after all, they believe they are the elite and no one else should be allowed to establish values other than them.

So now we see this fight against the rebeliousness of the people that refuse to use a leash... I mean, an identity.

One example of this attitude in history would be the indians and the portuguese. The portuguese first claimed the indians way of living was "without God", therefore not good, and used it as a moral pretext for "helping them", i.e., genocide, and to justify their violence. Once the portuguese established themselves they started dictating the values.

I would like to remind those brazilians that Brazil has advantage, culturally, over any other country in this planet in the context of a globalized world. Our culture is not set in stone and we feel free too adopt new values (despite of TV efforts to characterize Brazil as a country of samba and dancing mulattas). In the US they can't accept anything as american, you can see that by the need of labeling everything with some other name, to make sure that's not thought of as american or white.

But remember the cannibal myth, absorbing other values require actively taking them (not asking for) and a selective mind (to discern between the good and the bad), not passively accepting things! Just like our body, we eat, it uses the substances it needs, and excretes what's not needed.

It's our prerrogative to eat whatever we want, culturally. But this american racism is definetely "improper for consumption".

PS: The cannibal myth inverts the roles of oppressor and oppressed. In the case of the myth, it was the indians that eat the portuguese, and therefore became brazilians. This is a truly powerful idea. Everytime I hear whining a la americana I remember this myth and see how this goes well with the future.

SHAME!
written by Luca Roma, January 25, 2007

What a shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is this a democratic country?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s62kh3TccB0

Elite values
written by Will Pickering - Campinas SP, January 25, 2007

A Brazilian was right when he wrote:
"The culture comes from the elite, not from the people, unlike some might think. It's prerrogative of the powerful to establish the values. Brazil has established its own values and mixing is at the core of brazilianity, to the point of brazilians not identifying others by race."
It is the Brazilian elite who promulgate the notion the Brazil is a racially equal society, and a lot of Brazilians buy into the idea - that doesn't make it true.

...
written by A brazilian, January 25, 2007

It is the Brazilian elite who promulgate the notion the Brazil is a racially equal society, and a lot of Brazilians buy into the idea - that doesn't make it true.

The elites of any country that promulgate any notion in any country, the people just buy into the idea.

As far as Brazil is concerned, its culture and globalization are a perfect match.

...
written by rodrick, January 25, 2007

Man you need to relax!

Mark Wells knows it all
written by Jayjay, January 26, 2007

Mark

I am black, I am a proud black. It is only natural that there is a sense of inferiority that the term black imply. Don't forget, they have been slaves and no one can change that. Brazil had never focus on racial issues as much as now. People like you love to label everything and focus on the negative aspect of the issues. You don't know anything about Brazil and you should keep your mouth shot. Go watch an American soap opera to see only beautiful people with wonderful bodies and wonder if that's what you see on the streets. You have been hanging out with people like you and that is the problem. Forget about Brazil, get it of you Brazilian visa as soon as possible. One more thing, mulatas. You don't understand about them because you might not like women in general. They are different because they have perfect bodies and they dance like no one else in the world.Don't slant reality to make a sensational article, people are aware of what you are doing. Brazil is better off without you.

Mark....
written by Lord Invader, January 26, 2007

You're not black. It's a front. You're a white Brazilian posing as one. (Then again, I might be wrong--Brazil does have its fair share of Uncle Toms!!)

A Brazilian ?
written by The American Historian, January 26, 2007

Are you serious? Where did you read or hear there has never been any "mixing" in the U.S. Maybe those White and Indian ancestors of mine listed on government records
(as well as for most other black Americans) are a figment of my imagination. Most of the white men in the U.S. who had sex with black women were also white supremacists who favored official segregation. Have you heard of Thomas Jefferson or Strom Thurmond (both had kids with black women). How about tales of some of the white American guys who lynched black men but also had black mistresses on the side?

So more white Brazilian men had sex with black or indian women than happened in the U.S.--that proves nothing. The U.S. had many more white women and fewer black and indian woman than existed in Latin America. So doing what all men do, they (Latin American white men) had more sex with the kinds of women who were present in the highest numbers. I'll bet the average black man who lives in China has had more sex with Chinese women than black men who live in Africa or the U.S. because there are a lot of Chinese woman in China. Quite a few black men in Mexico (and increasingly where I live in Los Angeles) have married Indian or Mestizo women. Well, yes, of course.

...
written by A brazilian, January 26, 2007

So more white Brazilian men had sex with black or indian women than happened in the U.S.--that proves nothing.

Are you joking? Did the white supremacists live together as a family with their black kids??? I am talking about everyday reality, not something in the 19th century. People mix since a long time ago, and live as family, you know, father, mother and child in the same house with a sentimental bond, caring for each other. You are simply pathetic by trying to imply that the mixing in here was created by rape or violence by people that despised them.

You have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about. You and the rest of the pathetic americans that come to this speak of problems that don't exist.

So, if you feel more confortable this way, instead of using the sexual intercourse as an evidence of non racism, let's change that to "building a family" and living together. People live together, and don't hate each other by racial reasons.

This is simply disgusting.

BTW, it's not only about black and indians and portuguese, you have no idea of the level of diversity of Brazil.

...
written by Jorgao, January 27, 2007

. Can you tell if I am black, white, American or Brazilian by the way I write?? Does it matter? These articles are interesting, I don’t agree with a lot of things that Mark writes but I think the debate is healthy and necessary. I don’t think anybody is denying that racism exists in Brazil, it does. But I sense a constant obsession (by the Americans in particular) on pointing the finger at the Brazilians about racial issues. Is there a certain amount of inveja (envy)? Why compete? Will that benefit anybody except ourselves for a minute or two? Let’s learn from each other! Remember that Brazil was the last country in the western hemisphere to abolish slavery (188? And now Brazil has evolved the most in many aspects relating to racial, not social class issues. We should be careful not to feed into any kind of discrimination, I can’t help but feel as if this forum has caused unrest amongst some Brazilian and American participants. My message to you all is "tolerance" take the progress in the US in regards to race and utilize it and vice versa. Our enemy is this false pride! Let’s take what doesn’t/ didn’t work and scrap it...and most importantly move on!! Brazil is beautiful because of the unity amongst each other, example: Anybody born in Brazil being any color is Brazilian, period!. There is no Italian Brazilian, Mexican Brazilian etc. At least it is not obsessed upon because of an identity crises or for whatever reason. The result is less discrimination! This is the reason that on the black market the Brazilian passport is worth the most, because Brazilians can look like any "race" or ethnicity.

Who wants to take my opinion apart, I am ready. But can you really argue against working together? Unity is where it’s at!

A Brazilian, Jorgao
written by The American Historian, January 27, 2007

"Did the White Supremacists [in the U.S.] live together as a family with their black kids?" In some cases yes. Thomas Jefferson, his part black mistress and their kids lived together as a defacto family until his death (his mistress was his late wife's half-sister). Jefferson taught his part black sons a trade as carpenters. My great-great grandfather was left quite a bit of land in Oklahoma by his white relatives. I had other part white and indian ancestors (who would have been white by the standards of Brazil) who lived as husbands with their black wives. Why do you have to tell yourself that Brazil or Latin America was the only place where this would have happened? And obviously, my own personal family history proves nothing nothing about the lack of racism in the United States--and similar relationships say nothing about its existence in Brazil.

Also, where did I say most sexual relations between white and non-white women in Brazil were the result of rape? Mark Wells implies this not me, and I assume he has good sources to back up his claim.

"You and the rest of the pathetic Americans that come to speak of problems that don't exist."

You sir must be a man who still believes in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

".....you have no idea of the level of diversity of Brazil. "

Portugese, African, Indian, German, Italian, Japanese and smaller groups of assorted others. Does that cover most of it? Of course, one of the reasons you encouraged such immigration was in the hope that your black and indian population would someday disappear. Yes, further proof that Brazil has never had any racial problems or hangups.
I know it may seem ugly to look at now , but it is the truth.

Jorgao
written by The American Historian, January 27, 2007

"But I sense a constant obsession (by the Americans in paticular) on pointing the finger at Brazil on racial issues."

You see Jorgao, I entered this discussion after I saw some Brazilians and others distorting or outright lying about the extent of the racial problems in the U.S. Some of them would probably deny it now, but they have engaged in outright distortions at times as a way to make Brazil's racial situation look better than it in fact is. I only began to point out Brazil's probblems as a way of showing not only the similarities between the two countries, but also to display areas where in fact the U.S. is ahead of Brazil. I am not obsessed with race either in this country or Brazil.

And can you really claim Brazilians don't think much about race? Oh please sir, how can a country with so many blacks and pardos almost completely exclude them from the media if YOU ARE NOT THE ONES OBSESSED WITH RACE? How can a country have dozens of skin color designations if YOU ARE NOT THE ONES OBSESSED WITH RACE?
How can a country with so many brown and black skinned women use white Aryan types like Ms. Bundchen for your models if YOU ARE NOT THE ONES OBSESSED WITH RACE? Can you imagine a situation where the only actresses you saw on U.S. movies and television looked like Halle Berry or Beyonce Knowles? That would be ridiculous.
Even a country like India, with all its focus on color, allows more brown skinned women to represent it than Brazil.

"Anybody born in Brazil being any color is Brazilian period! The result is less discrimination!"

And this is not the case in most other countries? In my 43 years of life no White American has ever told me I was not an American--I am a black American, yes with all of the potential drawbacks--but still an American. The last time white Americans made a serious attempt to kick blacks out of the U.S. was in the 1860's. The white supremacists are the only folks who still talk about it, so I assume you must think most white Americans think like that. (i.e., our blacks are not real Americans).

Please, no more analysis of the Brazilian race situation that relies on too much myth and superstition.

Respell
written by The American Historian, January 27, 2007

Problems.

The U.S. Race Situation
written by The American Historian, January 27, 2007

I think you are misinformed about the extent of interracial relationships in the U.S. True, most blacks and whites and even others marry within their race, but in some parts of the U.S. (where the black population is lower) it is increasingly difficult to see a black man who is not with a woman of another race. In my Navy service I visited places like Seattle, San Diego, Hawaii, Arizona and Nevada and in those places I was much more likely to see a black man with a woman of another race (white, brown or Asian) than with a black woman due to the smaller number of blacks in these places.
Where higher concentrations of blacks live, black couples are still more the norm.

But ask yourself this, based on what I have heard, and I have never visited Brazil, it is very rare to see a black man with a white or light skinned woman in the whiter regions of South Brazil is it not? Why is it that in the less black regions of the U.S. a black man can find nonblack women who will date or marry him but for South Brazilians doing so is less common? Probably, the only black and mulatto guys those women would date are Pele or Ronaldo. Sad sad sad in the racial democracy with "no racial problems."

American Historian
written by A brazilian, January 27, 2007

In some cases yes.

W