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Gruesome Death of Child in Brazil Brings Punishment Issue to Forefront PDF Print E-mail
Written by Mister Trend   
Saturday, 10 February 2007 22:47

Brazilian police show three of the suspects of the death of 6-year-old João Paulo Rather gruesome news from Rio. In one of the poorer parts of the city, an 18-year-old kid and his 17-year-old friend carjacked a lady in the suburbs. She tried to get her 6-year-old son out of the back seat, but he got tangled in the seatbelt. The 18-year-old proceeded to start the car and gunned it, dragging the 6-year old for 4 miles and killing him, presumably by decapitation (the head was found in a separate location than his body).

This has sent shockwaves throughout Rio. The gruesome nature of the boy's death has revolted everybody (even the perpetrator's parents helped to track him down). The boys have been arrested, but there is outrage over the prospective criminal punishment, too.

In Brazil, not only is there no death penalty (a good thing); the maximum prison sentence for ANY crime is 30 years (a bad thing). And as for the 17-year-old, he is automatically classified as a delinquent, and is facing a maximum of 3 years in a juvenile detention center.

I'm not a lawyer, but there are a couple things worth discussing. First, there is the maximum jail sentence of 30 years. As I've said, it's great that there is no death penalty here or anywhere in Latin America, though cases like this have and do create a knee-jerk demand for it sometimes.

However, with the 30-year limit, some truly heinous crimes by repeat offenders will still only amount in 30 years of jail time. There is no way to give a longer sentence, period. Thus, a serial killer who potentially kills 17 people faces the same sentence as somebody who kills one person.

Obviously, by many standards of justice, this would ideally be re-adjusted, perhaps (and I draw only on my own knowledge here) akin to a system in the U.S., where crimes like armed assault, armed robbery, or rape can get you in the 30-year range, while murder can get you 30 years or life, depending on your past, your present, etc.

However, while I know some Brazilians who think there should be a re-calibration of sentencing, it obviously can't be fixed so quickly, because A) changing the sentencing would require basically reformatting the entire penal code, and B) the jails are already so overflowing, and the police are far from lenient in the number of arrests and treatment of prisoners, so this is rather unlikely anytime soon.

The second issue at hand here is the fact that, in Brazil, there is a hard-and-fast adult/underage age of 18. If you commit a crime at 18 years of age, you're tried as an adult; if you are even one day under 18, you are tried as a juvenile. There is no variation and flexibility like there is in the U.S.

To me, this is an idea that may sound decent at first but reveals itself to be rather useless and even offensive at the end of the day. Certainly, by sticking to the hard-and-fast rule, you don't have cases like wrestling death of 1999, where a fourteen year old was sentenced to jail for life.

Dave Chappelle hit it on the head in his standup, where he related this case to the R. Kelly allegations, in which the public decried allegations that Kelly peed on a 15-year old "child," even while trying a 14-year-old "adult" for murder. As Chappelle put it, "If you're old enough to murder, you're old enough to know if you want somebody to pee on you or not"). More recently, we have the Genarlow Wilson case resulting in unfair sentences for youth.

However, once again, by the same token, there are cases like today's in Rio. Because a 17 year old consciously committed a heinous crime but is one year younger than his friend, he will only face 3 years in a juvenile detention center (no walk in the park, certainly, but I think most would take that over 30 years in jail).

Certainly, judges and prosecutors in the states can and do abuse the power to decide which young people will be tried as adults, and which will be tried as juveniles. However, given the restrictions of the hard-and-fast rule for 18 in Brazil, one also sees the benefits of some leeway in terms of crime and age. However, such reform is unlikely to arrive anytime soon (if at all).

Mister Trend, the author, has his own blog at http://alterdestiny.blogspot.com. Comments can be sent to This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

Comments (174)Add Comment
Leadership
written by original_lion, February 11, 2007
It will be hard to change the Brazilian judicial system, which is a real dinosaur, with stakeholders who don't want and aren't capable to move it in a positive direction. In short, there is no leadership here.

The Brazilians I work with (and who are naturally shocked by this crime, as is every sane person) expect the state to do "something", not realizing that:

1) they, the people, are really the state. Thus "do not ask what your country can do for you, but ...". The level of activism is very low here, as if people have been subjugated somehow, silenced, deafened.

2) the state here is actually non-existent, in the sense understood in the West, as of not being an entity capable to guarantee services which are taken for granted in other countries (security, infrastructure, ... etc).

What's worse, the situation is getting worse, not better. I think that this superficial economic "growth" and "improvement of living standard" (as Lula likes to brag about) is actually hiding the real truth: the conditions of Brazilian society are rotting from within.
...
written by bo, February 11, 2007
it's ludicrous to have a "hard and fast" rule of 18 years of age. Believe me, many gangs and organized crime factions use this very fact when they're caught murdering someone. They'll blame it on the "minor" in the group to achieve a light sentence. They need to start having mental evaluations of these adolescents, and if they're found to have the mental capacity of an adult, to know right from wrong, which most all 15 year old adolescents that I know certainly do, that they fully were aware of the fact they were committing a crime, and in most cases premiditated, they should be judged as an adult.

The situation in Rio is so grave that I for one wouldn't mind at all seeing capitol punishment being legal there. And they should televise the executions. Maybe that would make some of these criminals think twice before senselessly murdering anyone, let along a child.
...
written by jeanne, February 11, 2007
It is better to cut out all the stupid theorizing. The reality of life here in Rio or Sao Paulo is that the two young offenders will be dead, killed sooner or later, much as the perpetrators of the bus es set on fire in Sao Paulo were murdered almost as soon as they were put in jail. So please cut out all the foolish rhetoric. Get real and get a life.
Hi jeanne
written by JLS, February 11, 2007
Hi jeanne,
I am interested in where you obtained the specificity of the actual deaths of all the perpetrators involved in the terror attacks on the buses in Rio and Sao Paulo. Could you please include their full names and methods of the killings? I m’ just a lower representing the victims of the buses and I don’t want to waist my time nor my client’s money if you have such “inside information” available that may have been overlooked. I’m sure I can count on you help as for you not to be perceived as incredibly cynical or rhetorically stupid.
Thank you.
JLS
...
written by bo, February 11, 2007
...
written by jeanne, 2007-02-11 17:16:34

It is better to cut out all the stupid theorizing. The reality of life here in Rio or Sao Paulo is that the two young offenders will be dead, killed sooner or later, much as the perpetrators of the bus es set on fire in Sao Paulo were murdered almost as soon as they were put in jail. So please cut out all the foolish rhetoric. Get real and get a life.


So what does that solve jeanne???
THEY SHOOT HORSES DONT THEY !!!!!!
written by forrest allen brown, February 11, 2007
SOME PEOPLE JUST NEED KILLING .

YOU KILL A BAD DOG WHEN HE DOES WHAT HE WAS TRAINED TO DO , YOU DONT KILL THE OWNER THAT SET HIM OUT ,T HE DOG WAS JUST DOING WHAT HE WAS TOLD TO DO .
THEY KILL FUTIBALL PLAYERS FOR DOING THE RONG THING DONT THEY

JEANNE IS RIGHT WHEN THE LAW DOES NOT AFFORD THE TAKING OF A LIFE FOR A LIFE THAN WHY SHOULD ONE WORRIE JUST DO YOUR TIME .

IF YOU LIVE LONG IN PRISON AND GET OUT THAN THERE IS THE BRASILIAN WAY TO MAKE ONE NO MORE , AND IN A FEW WEEKS NO ONE REMEMBERS WHAT HAPPENED
...
written by bo, February 12, 2007
....IN A FEW WEEKS NO ONE REMEMBERS WHAT HAPPENED



And that is the problem!
What the F.... is going on?
written by Guto, February 12, 2007
I see that most of us have opinions that could and should be consider by leaders in Brazil. My question to all is...Why not capital punishment?

Unlike here in the USA I would like to see that if you are charge with a crime of this magnitude and found guilty, as soon as they walk you out of the court house put a bullet in the back of your head.

With a system like such, I'm sure that a lot of criminals would think twice before making such stupid act.

I'm a father, son, brother and most of all a Brazilian citizen. I'm ashame at times of my nationality, because of acts like this, that is happening every single day in Brazil.

The Brazilian government should have countability for what just happen and what will happen.

Any ways just my two cents!!!!!!!!!!


FUI!!!!!!



...
written by jabmalassie, February 12, 2007
It is horrible what happened. I don know all the facts but it does not appear that the accused intended to cause harm to the young boy. I believe they may have been reckless in their behavior and could have forseen that such a result was probable. I am not familiar with Brazilian law. I wonder if they are the right individuals? Did they catch them at the scene?
...
written by e harmony, February 12, 2007
Whether it is Johannesburg, Lagos, Bangkok, Detroit, or Rio de Janeiro people will have bursts of outrage and then quite soon go back to accepting things as always. This will repeat itself over and over and over. It's a condition common to many urban centers today in the world. The problem has many layers but fundamental is a dualistic aspect of having significant numbers left out the prosperity of their local societies wealth and the modern glamorization of assassination, murder, and committing torture to obtain wealth and or material items. This did not happen in one day but it formed over many decades. We say those that lived as Eastern Samurai's or Western Knights lived in an age of barbarity that lacked all common respect for decency we have in our own technologically advanced societies with greater and greater access to universal education. A many intellectual at a college that has never witnessed with his own eyes a person being beaten without any help in closed house, under the context of super narcotics like crack cocaine, can only snub his or her nose at the ancients that went before them, but never once in all their diplomas or book reading find the irony in their support of Lucky Luciano and all those came after him. Through all the layers that create the problem, one of the biggest problems among them, is that those who take local elected office usually never hail from the centers of battle zones. Most make their way up through the ranks of college and professional careers that buffers them from the staging grounds of developing gangsters, stick-up kids and "tough guys." MLK for all his diplomas wasn't made in college, Jimmy Hoffa wasn't made in college, college is good but it can't bring you that heart and desire needed to crush a giant monster.


3 years is to little for that 17 year old kid, proportionately so little time is another crime committed. Jeanne I don't doubt is right when she implies the 17 year old will be killed in jail. Most jails, prisons, and societies at large have their own "codes" as to proportions of crime allowed. But I don't wish this kid dead, nor tortured, but punished with lengthy time and a process of rehabilitation if can be.

I don't know... there are many layers to all this. Anyways, my heart goes out to the victims and loved ones.
...
written by Luca, Roma, Italy, February 12, 2007
Death penalty does not lower crime, it actually increases it! Compare crime rate per 1000 persons in Canada (no death penalty) and the US (death penalty) for example. If you are able to kill a person no death penalty will stop you from doing it (let alone in a country liek Brazil where "unofficial" death penalty does exists as one reader above rightly said (by the police or by unwritten "prison law"). Penatly laws should only by approved following thorough study of figures and data involving crime and social conditions, we should not let poorly educated people push for demagogic solutions.
here we are again...
written by Luca, Roma, Italy, February 12, 2007
Increasing the quantity of educated people and the quality of eductaion is the key to alleviate Brazilian problems, not death penaly and jails...but uneducated people want quick solutions, compelxity is not understood by the masses. Fighting poverty is the key to fighting corruptiona and crime, there'll always be corruption and crime as long as there's povery and it's hard to make ends meet. Wake up Brazilian oligarhcy befeore it'll be you who get shot tomorrow at the traffic light of your rich neighbourhood.


...
written by bo, February 12, 2007
...
written by jabmalassie, 2007-02-12 01:17:52

It is horrible what happened. I don know all the facts...



hence, you should've stopped right there. You obviously don't know Rio either, or brazil.
...
written by bo, February 12, 2007
...
written by e harmony, 2007-02-12 03:34:37


Whether it is Johannesburg, Lagos, Bangkok, Detroit, or Rio de Janeiro people will have bursts of outrage and then quite soon go back to accepting things as always. This will repeat itself over and over and over. It's a condition common to many urban centers today in the world.


Please, can you name ONE international city that is not at war and in the first 11 days of this month has had over 120 murdered? People burned alive in cars...including children, teenagers murdered and their bodies cut into pieces, a child dragged through 4 neighborhoods while stuck in his seat belt and when it was all over they found his head in another place than where his body was discovered?

Just last night there were 10 people killed in a raid in a Rio favela.

Dez vítimas na Ilha e em Cordovil

Rio - No fim de semana anterior seis pessoas morreram e 10 ficaram feridas durante confrontos entre milicianos e traficantes nas favelas do Barbante e Vila Joaniza, ambas na Ilha do Governador, e na Cidade Alta, em Cordovil. O banho de sangue foi uma tentativa dos criminosos de recuperar pontos de onde haviam sido expulsos.

No primeiro ataque, às duas comunidades da Ilha, quatro pessoas morreram e duas foram baleadas, mas os bandidos que haviam saído em dezembro não conseguiram retomá-las. Já em Cordovil, traficantes retornaram ao conjunto habitacional um dia dia após invasão de milicianos, feita com ajuda de blindado da PM.

Na Cidade Alta, foi morto o sargento Alex Sarmento, lotado na Diretoria Geral de Pessoal e suspeito de integrar a milícia. O corpo do motoboy Fábio Fernandes, 29, foi deixado no porta-malas de um Peugeot. Oito pessoas ficaram feridas, entre elas um menino de 11 anos. Carros foram roubados para formar os bondes, horas antes.




Please E, name me ONE international city, that is NOT at war, that on a daily basis is having the number of people, children included, murdered in the streets.

is that those who take local elected office usually never hail from the centers of battle zones. Most make their way up through the ranks of college and professional careers that buffers them from the staging grounds of developing gangsters, stick-up kids and "tough guys." MLK for all his diplomas wasn't made in college, Jimmy Hoffa wasn't made in college, college is good but it can't bring you that heart and desire needed to crush a giant monster.


Well, you're always harping about Lula, he's certainly no college man. What the hell has he been doing about Rio over the last 4 years?
LULA LULA LULA
written by forrest allen brown, February 12, 2007
LULA IS FROM THE NORTH HE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT RIO

JUST LINING HIS OWN POCKETS AND THEN BUYING A LARGE HOUSE IN SOME OTHER COUNTRY TO HIDE FROM ALL THE BAD HE LEAVES HIS COUNTRY SETTING IN

...
written by A brazilian, February 12, 2007
Increasing the quantity of educated people and the quality of eductaion is the key to alleviate Brazilian problems, not death penaly and jails...


I am not sure if education alone helps, unless you mean "education" as a way of living. I can tell you that most people couldn't care less about school and studying, they see it as "boring, but we need to do it anyway". They just don't see the value of it. The result of this mentality is that they don't worry about education outside of the school, as soon as the class ends they won't touch a book! They won't read anything unless they are told to, and they won't study anything unless they receive a diploma in exchange for the huge sacrifice.

I think education, especially for children, is everything, not only school but the family, the values and the environment the child grows in. Now let's see the family and the environment for those poor people:

- a bunch of miserable little people that can't afford the simplest things, that walk around in rags, and have a seriously broken minds either due to alcohol or drug abuse, or out of sheer stupidity;
- living in the dirtiest, ugliest and most dangerous places;
- who will be arrested if "trespassing" the areas of the correct human beings for not being well dressed, or by being confused with thieves;

Now imagine the same person crossing the street and seeing wealth, beautiful things and beautiful people. Do you think they would say

"Hey, I need to study a lot for improving my situation. Maybe I can get a better job and soon I will be able to afford those things, and move to a better neighborhood"

or

"Those greedy people that won't share anything. I live in the s**t and nobody cares."?

The latter option is the case for that kind of people. They can't see opportunity, they can't see the value of education, they can't see value in anything, they do what they do because they believe the society is in debt with them. Maybe because the guy living across the street has a car and he doesn't, maybe because the guy across the street has a prettier girlfriend.

This is the "entitlement" mentality of the brazilian society that kills it, and it is used by all kinds of monsters to rationalize such inhuman behavior. People believe, especially the poor, that they have the right to everything for free and the government must give everything they need (school, health, work, a nice house, etc).

I have a friend that worked in a clinic. Not sure what the law states, but they have to receive those public health people, and they came from the poorest areas of the town. Boy, the stories he told me were simply unbelievable. They punched doctors on the face, yelled at everyone, behaved completely inadequately and if something was not done according to their "rights" they would call the media "to denounce the mistreatment of the poor people".

No person that were either using their health care plans or paying from their own pockets for the doctor would act so stupidly.

Of course not everyone is like that, but trust me, there's no nobility in poverty, there's only ignorance and blindness. These young people that commit these gruesome crimes are like wild beasts that prey upon men, they are less than humans now, and incapable of living in a society, and I wouldn't be surprised if they believe they are right, if they believe the society is in debt with them.

This won't end with education alone, but by fixing the huge gap between rich and poor, creating more opportunites, and for Christ's sake, ending with this "favela culture". I hate favelas, this is not normal, human beings were not meant to live under those conditions. Favelas look like something out of a sick mind, it's disgustingly dirty and ugly, bad for the environment, it's simply ridiculous. Pigs in the farm of a friend of mine live better than that.

The Greeks left things like the Parthenon, the Romans left Rome and many other marvels of engineering, what Brazil will leave behind? FAVELAS!? Nothing is what Brazil will leave behind, because by the way those huts are built in less than 10 years everything would be gone!
...
written by e harmony, February 12, 2007
written by bo, 2007-02-12 09:49:02

...
written by e harmony, 2007-02-12 03:34:37


Whether it is Johannesburg, Lagos, Bangkok, Detroit, or Rio de Janeiro people will have bursts of outrage and then quite soon go back to accepting things as always. This will repeat itself over and over and over. It's a condition common to many urban centers today in the world.



Please, can you name ONE international city that is not at war and in the first 11 days of this month has had over 120 murdered? People burned alive in cars...including children, teenagers murdered and their bodies cut into pieces, a child dragged through 4 neighborhoods while stuck in his seat belt and when it was all over they found his head in another place than where his body was discovered?

Just last night there were 10 people killed in a raid in a Rio favela.

Dez vítimas na Ilha e em Cordovil

Rio - No fim de semana anterior seis pessoas morreram e 10 ficaram feridas durante confrontos entre milicianos e traficantes nas favelas do Barbante e Vila Joaniza, ambas na Ilha do Governador, e na Cidade Alta, em Cordovil. O banho de sangue foi uma tentativa dos criminosos de recuperar pontos de onde haviam sido expulsos.

No primeiro ataque, às duas comunidades da Ilha, quatro pessoas morreram e duas foram baleadas, mas os bandidos que haviam saído em dezembro não conseguiram retomá-las. Já em Cordovil, traficantes retornaram ao conjunto habitacional um dia dia após invasão de milicianos, feita com ajuda de blindado da PM.

Na Cidade Alta, foi morto o sargento Alex Sarmento, lotado na Diretoria Geral de Pessoal e suspeito de integrar a milícia. O corpo do motoboy Fábio Fernandes, 29, foi deixado no porta-malas de um Peugeot. Oito pessoas ficaram feridas, entre elas um menino de 11 anos. Carros foram roubados para formar os bondes, horas antes.




Please E, name me ONE international city, that is NOT at war, that on a daily basis is having the number of people, children included, murdered in the streets.

is that those who take local elected office usually never hail from the centers of battle zones. Most make their way up through the ranks of college and professional careers that buffers them from the staging grounds of developing gangsters, stick-up kids and "tough guys." MLK for all his diplomas wasn't made in college, Jimmy Hoffa wasn't made in college, college is good but it can't bring you that heart and desire needed to crush a giant monster.



Well, you're always harping about Lula, he's certainly no college man. What the hell has he been doing about Rio over the last 4 years?


Bo,

Rio is a big city, 100 people murdered in 10 days is probably like 10 people being killed in town my size in 10 days. My town has less than a million people - few cities in the world have as many people as cities like Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. Rio's murder rate was much higher in the 1980's than what it has been for the last couple or few years. So Rio's murder rate has declined.

Another thing is that while this viscous and tragic incident, with this child decapitation in a carjacking, demonstrates the violence endemic in Rio, one must understand even in a city with as many millions of people as Rio, this crime is a rarity that gives it a news value of novelty. If it was common place it would not be shocking to Brazilians or Rio residents - for everyday or almost everyday a child would be getting decapitated in a carjacking.

As for Lula he is a great man that has risen to great heights from such humble beginnings - a testament to anything being possible in Brazil. He is President of a country and not Mayor of Rio - Lula can not micro manage a city - especially a city steeped in generational gang affiliations. Rio has to change itself.

Also... people in Rio take to the beaches in little clothing and they do other outdoor recreational things so the people aren't so afraid of violence that they stop enjoying life. Perhaps the Brazilian has more courage than the average gringo and they will walk and smile in open where the gringo would run and hide? I don't know.
Rio Shocked
written by GTY, February 12, 2007
Give me a break, even though this partcularly hideous crime has gained worldwide attention, crimes of this nature are not uncommon in the big cities of Brazil. Oh sure, Carioca's will feign shock and anger, but the next day they are off to the beach, beer and Samba, it is sthe most disfunctional society one can imagine. Other posters have stated the difficulty in "fixing" the justice system, lack of courage means no change. Hell, how can you change a system were the Drug Lords command their troops from prison from their cell phones? I am not a fan of capital punishment as well, but how does Brazil, where every prison is just a spark away from a riot, increase the population in an already unbelievably crowded system. It's why police, kill criminals with impunity, often with the support of the community, even the worst of the worst will be back out in just a few years.

An interesting oxymoron is Hati. Were Brazilian troops led by a Brazilian general, lead consistantly succesful raids in the dangerous and drug ridden shanty towns in Haiti. The Brazilian General was almost recalled several years back when he echoed the thoughts of one poster "some people just need killing", I hope that this is a training mission and one day these same troops will have the balls to take back their cities. Until then, the folks in Rio will continue to be "shocked" by unimaginable crimes, crimes where women and children are frequently the victims.

I know that there are many proud Brazilians that frequent this site, it is amazing how they defend the status quo. It's about leadership, strong smart intelligent leadership. Brazil and the US do have one thing in common, that is lacking in both country's.
...
written by jabmalassie, February 12, 2007
I think Jamaica has quite a few so far. Most of the violence is in Kingston. It doesn't sound as bad. Hey Bo why should I just stop at it was horrible what happend?
We can ask questions. What will the charges be?
Bo
written by GTY, February 13, 2007
Your comments are moronic and uninformed. Brazil as a country, has the highest per capital murder rate in the world. Yes, higher than Jamaica. People like you who distort or try and reason away reality show the worst of Brazil. The problem IS courage...Brazil does not have, or never has had the courage to deal with criminals and crime, instead the they live with it and wonder when they will be a victim, its the single biggest reason Brazilians risk their lives to immigrate to Western countries. Bo, why do people not stop at red lights after dark in Rio? Might it be fear?

Say what you will about the US, you will never find places like the favelas where criminals operate with inpunity, police stations are not shot up in NY or LA. What is most troubling, and typical of Brazilians, is the fact you never condemded the crime of a little boy being dragged until his head came off, instead opting to give a reason and say "things are not that bad" it shows what type of heart you have and what type of person you are. Again, typical of Brazilians, if it didn't happen to you, you just don't care. You as a Brazilian have become numb to the violence and problems around you.

As far as Lula being great, there is no one in the modern world that thinks that, at best he is adaquate, at worst ineffective. What has he really done in 5 years...inflation is out of control, so is crime, thousands of Indians (Brazilian) citizens are starving, modern day slavery is rampant in the North, Brazil is the leading exporter of child pornography and child sex tourism...yes, you really have great leadership, I would hate to see what it would look like with bad leadership. To most people, Brazil is the laughing stock of the world, but not in my case, I think it is tragic. Instead of making excuses for the murder of a child, you should be asking for the worlds prayers...your arguments beget your lack of a good education and morality of a good citizen.
Such a tragedy
written by Bryan, February 13, 2007
So sad. It could have happened anywhere. US, Europe, anywhere else. It is just a violent world we live in and people have become hardened to caring about others. Too bad this poor child paid the price for it. People have been dragged to death, kids, adults, in other incidents in various places from Texas to Africa. It's easy to write it off as a Brazilian thing but it isn't. Brazil has its problems like anywhere else. And Rio in particular. But this is just a sign of the way we are becoming desensitized. There was a day when they would have stopped to save the child the minute they realized he was there, but those days are gone. Too bad. It is a loss for all of us.
Brazils murder rate doubles from 1980-2002
written by GTY, February 13, 2007
Homicide is now the leading cause of death for persons aged 15--44 years. To describe trends and characteristics of homicides countrywide and in São Paulo city (2000 population: approximately 10.4 million) (BGSI, unpublished data, 2004), the State Health Department of São Paulo (SHDSP) analyzed vital statistics and census data for 1980--2002. This report summarizes the results of that analysis, which indicated that the homicide rate in Brazil more than doubled during this period (Figure 1). Since 2001, Brazilian authorities have implemented several initiatives to reduce the number of homicides, including a law that controls gun ownership and prohibits anyone other than police and members of the armed forces from carrying guns. However, homicides among adolescents and young adults remain a substantial public health problem in Brazil, and additional prevention strategies that target young persons are needed.

Bo States: Rio's murder rate was much higher in the 1980's than what it has been for the last couple or few years. So Rio's murder rate has declined.

Get a clue Bo!


...
written by jabmalassie, February 13, 2007
I don't claim to know it all, and I really don't have confidence in the stats. The media makes Rio and SP seem like one of the worst places for crime. It is safe to say it is a real problem. To say otherwise is just denial. The stats seem to say that places like Jamaica, South Africa and Colombia have worse rates of crime per capita. I think the stats lag reality. Is there a way to find out?
...
written by A brazilian, February 13, 2007
The problem IS courage...Brazil does not have, or never has had the courage to deal with criminals and crime, instead the they live with it and wonder when they will be a victim


Are you saying that people voluntarily accepts to live in a society with crime? Responsibility should be attributed to those that have the power. No Zé Ninguém has any power to do anything except complaining about it or trying to vote for someone else in the next election.

There's a problem, but it's not about courage, and not about brazilians in general, but of a few incompetent individuals.

its the single biggest reason Brazilians risk their lives to immigrate to Western countries.


Yes, that's because Brazil is in Asia, right? I don't understand how the logic of gringos work. What is a "Western" country for you? I am asking seriously, I really want to know because it's not fun anymore. We all know that you suck at geography, but this is getting old.

Inform yourself better, people immigrate because of the prospect of getting a better life just by doing manual work, and in most of the cases this is purely illusory because they could have it here if they were more intelligent. Usually the less capable feel very compelled to go to the US just because of the idea that you can have a nice life without studying, just by doing manual work.

After I came back to Brazil some neighbor of mine asked " Are you back? I thought you were to be rich". The guy is a delivery guy. For these kind of people there no other means of getting a good life other than through their hands.

You as a Brazilian have become numb to the violence and problems around you.


If everyone does what it is best for themselves the society only wins, a machine works great because every piece of it performs as expected. Stop using your heart and "emotionalize" the discussion and use your brain, it's counter productive and won't solve to try to "hug the world".

There is no other way of living, or you go mad with things you have absolutely no power over. This is not saying that Brazil is as bad as picture here by gringos, this type of crime, of people being dragged by cars is not common at all, and we have seen more barbaric stuff (more exactly two things, this and the bus burnt) only recently from Rio due to criminal organizations trying to terrorize the population.

Recently they did a manifestation for the peace in Rio, laughable. A demonstration of democracy? Freedom of speech? Demonstration of how the population is concerned? I call it pathetic. It doesn't solve anything.

inflation is out of control


This is incorrect. Inflation has been very much under control for a long time, economically Brazil has been very stable, perhaps too stable, the government is worried about making it grow more. Today is paradise if compared to 20 years ago.

thousands of Indians (Brazilian) citizens are starving


Where did you get that? There are lots of people starving, but what makes you think Indians are starving!? Hahaha

modern day slavery is rampant in the North


Not really. The cases are isolated and solved as they are found. The exact opposite of the US, that openly exploit the work of illegal immigrants in semi-slave works and makes nothing to change that. Some americans even feel proud of it.

Brazil is the leading exporter of child pornography and child sex tourism


Not really. BTW, where did you get this information from?

To most people, Brazil is the laughing stock of the world, but not in my case, I think it is tragic.


To the most ignorant people, you mean.

Instead of making excuses for the murder of a child, you should be asking for the worlds prayers


Praying solves nothing.

your arguments beget your lack of a good education and morality of a good citizen


Ad hominem.

Continue...
...
written by A brazilian, February 13, 2007
Well, this would be just a stupid post, but it also reflects the usual "bigot" view prevalent in the gringoland. The main theme of the many posts written by foreigners, at least most of them, includes the usual assumption that everything bad happens in Brazil, every bad allegation is truth until proven otherwise, and they know all the answers to fix everything, but brazilians are too stupid to listen to their deep wisdom or figure it out.

When they actually have any data to back anything they are saying up, usually it is a topic loosely connected with their argumentation, whose premises do not fully support the conclusion they want to make.

Big capitals such as Rio and Sao Paulo have security problems, but even there, with many millions of population, the problem is not as big as some try to paint it. We don't see people being killed on the streets (just like it would be in a war) and we don't see that many violence everywhere. Those cities are huge, and I am sure that the "rate" proves nothing. There are some neighborhoods that have more violence than others, and that could make the rate go to the skies, giving the impression that the whole city is crime infested.
...
written by A brazilian, February 13, 2007
I don't claim to know it all, and I really don't have confidence in the stats. The media makes Rio and SP seem like one of the worst places for crime. It is safe to say it is a real problem. To say otherwise is just denial. The stats seem to say that places like Jamaica, South Africa and Colombia have worse rates of crime per capita. I think the stats lag reality. Is there a way to find out?


I don't understand, are you saying that you don't believe the stats that say that other places have higher murder per capita because "it's Brazil, and it should be worse of course"?
...
written by Luca, Roma, Italy, February 13, 2007
I agree with many of the blogs but first of all I would like to point out that I'm well aware that one thing is the situation in metropolis like Sao Paolo & Rio and other 500.000 inhab. cities and one thing si the rest of Brazil. Statistical average sometimes are misleading but what we shoudl really look at is the homicide rate for young males in favela areas. I do not know if it is possible to get data for that from Brazilian statistical and geographic institute (how accurate are census data regarding favelas? Do cenus official actually collect complete data in those areas?) but it would be very interesting if a Brazilian reseacrher would carry out such a study. I think it would be thus clear that a real warfare is going on in Brazilian metropolis. Brazil is a beautiful country that we all love otherwise we wouldn't be here on this website but it is not by hiding its serious problems that we show this love. If anyone has data concening the above mentioned aspects I would be grateful if you could send a link to this forum. Ciao!
...
written by Luca, Roma, Italy, February 13, 2007
Anyway if you put Switzerland and Nigeria side by side as it happens in Brazilian cities you get that kind of crazy crime. Nobody owns a magic stick to change this war situation in Brazilian metropolis, but some thinsg can be done to alleviate these problems: making favelas a bit more human providing social services and sewage, keeping kids out of the streets with afternoon schooling, democratize the military police so that it provides security and not unexpected random shooting, parental planning for young people to decrease the number of single-mother families...all this can be finances by taxing more rich people and fighting white collar corruption.
...
written by bo, February 13, 2007
This won't end with education alone, but by fixing the huge gap between rich and poor, creating more opportunites, and for Christ's sake, ending with this "favela culture"


What do you think will fix the huge gap between the rich and the poor? What do you think will create more opportunities??? What do you think will end this "favela culture" you talk about????

I'll give you a hint.....EDUCATION.
...
written by bo, February 13, 2007
Bo
written by GTY, 2007-02-13 00:14:27

Your comments are moronic and uninformed.



Brazils murder rate doubles from 1980-2002
written by GTY, 2007-02-13 00:22:17



Bo States: Rio's murder rate was much higher in the 1980's than what it has been for the last couple or few years. So Rio's murder rate has declined.

Get a clue Bo!




LOL....obviously you're the one that needs to get a clue, a big one. Can you read??? E Harmony made those posts my dyslexic friend, not me.
...
written by bo, February 13, 2007
...
written by e harmony, 2007-02-12 19:48:05


Rio is a big city, 100 people murdered in 10 days is probably like 10 people being killed in town my size in 10 days. My town has less than a million people - few cities in the world have as many people as cities like Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. Rio's murder rate was much higher in the 1980's than what it has been for the last couple or few years. So Rio's murder rate has declined.


New York is roughly the same size as Rio, you don't see this day-to-day violence and murders happening there now do ya? The city of Rio has a population of 6 million, metro Rio has roughly 11 million. Don't try and say that this is "normal" in all cities the size of Rio, Rio is HALF the size of Sao Paulo, so don't try and compare those two. And, Rio is MORE violence than Sao Paulo!!! With twice the number of people....explain that!

Again, you avoided my question....please, name one international city that is NOT at WAR that has had 120 people murdered in the first 11 days of February. You can't do it, because there isn't one.

And once again, for your information GTY, I'm an american living in Brazil, E harmony, which is whom you should've been making your remarks to claims to be an american as well. Although I think she is a first generation american, and I also think she is a female although he/she states otherwise.
...
written by bo, February 13, 2007
Another thing is that while this viscous and tragic incident, with this child decapitation in a carjacking, demonstrates the violence endemic in Rio, one must understand even in a city with as many millions of people as Rio, this crime is a rarity that gives it a news value of novelty. If it was common place it would not be shocking to Brazilians or Rio residents - for everyday or almost everyday a child would be getting decapitated in a carjacking.


LOL....you're truly an idiot. Never stepped foot in the country, but you READ about brazil. Well start reading!!! What other cities on a daily basis have police stations attacked?? What other city on a DAILY basis have numerous car jackings and people inside the cars are killed, either shot, or even burned to death while in the car?? How many cities from time to time have GROUPS of people killed, and like last week, TWO of those GROUPS of people were MUTILATED!!

Yea, that's normal.

You can't be that stupid, you must be posting just to get a reaction, because I simply can't believe there are people that exist that are this ignorant.
...
written by bo, February 13, 2007
...
written by A brazilian, 2007-02-13 01:40:52

Are you saying that people voluntarily accepts to live in a society with crime? Responsibility should be attributed to those that have the power. No Zé Ninguém has any power to do anything except complaining about it or trying to vote for someone else in the next election.

There's a problem, but it's not about courage, and not about brazilians in general, but of a few incompetent individuals.


A few incompetent individuals??? LMAO!! You mean that the problem in Rio can be fixed by simply removing a "few" incompetent individuals and replacing them with competent individuals???? And I thought the situation was complicated!!

A brazilian, when your government leaders don't respond to the desires of the people, when they put their personal interests in front of the interests of the people, when the very system they participate in is one of CORRUPTION, the PEOPLE have a RESPONSIBILITY to take action!!!

It's the very reason why in the U.S. that the right to "hold and bear arms" is sacred, guns will NEVER be outlawed in the U.S. It's part of our culture. The people know that if the federal gov't. ever gets too strong, and ignores the will of the majority of the people, then the people have an OBLIGATION to revolt!!
...
written by jabmalassie, February 13, 2007
Are there any reliable statistics on the murder rate in Brazil???
Fun
written by SAVY, February 13, 2007
Wanna have some fun, put on your best watch, hang your best camera around your neck and take a walk in Copacabana. Before you go, make a bet with your friends as to how long before you will be knocked to the ground and kicked in your head.

In the big cities of the West, you can go ANYWHERE and wear anything without fearing for your life...big difference.
Bastard north americans !
written by Old one, February 13, 2007
13/02/2007 - 04h32
Ataques de homens armados deixam oito mortos nos EUA
Publicidade
da Folha Online

Ataques de atiradores solitários em dois Estados diferentes dos EUA deixaram pelo menos oito mortos nesta segunda-feira (12).

Em um dos tiroteios, um homem armado assassinou cinco pessoas dentro de um shopping center em Salt Lake, no Estado de Utah, até ser morto por um policial de folga.

No outro incidente, um atirador matou três pessoas numa reunião entre diretores de uma empresa na Filadélfia, no Estado da Pensilvânia, e depois se matou, segundo a polícia local.

Morte no shopping

O shopping Trolley Square, de Salt Lake, foi invadido por um homem com uma espingarda, que passou a disparar aleatoriamente contra os clientes, no início da noite (horário local). Além das cinco mortes, pelo menos quatro pessoas ficaram feridas, três delas em estado grave.

As vítimas foram baleadas em pontos diferentes do shopping. Aparentemente, o assassino atirou ao acaso. As pessoas foram mortas simplesmente porque estavam passando.

A matança foi interrompida pela ação de um policial de folga, que, segundo testemunhas, baleou o atirador numa loja de roupas infantis. O policial não se feriu.

Negócios interrompidos

O tiroteio da Filadélfia ocorreu numa sala de conferências do Centro de Negócios Navais, por volta das 20h30 de segunda (horário local). O assassino alvejou quatro pessoas: três morreram e a outra permanece internada em estado grave.

Outras duas pessoas estavam na sala, mas não foram atingidas. O local se transformou num cenário de "caos absoluto", nas palavras do comissário de polícia Richard Ross.

Segundo a polícia, o homem conseguiu entrar na sala dizendo que tinha um "assunto de dinheiro" a tratar com os diretores. Armado com uma pistola, ele disparou contra as pessoas da sala e em seguida trocou tiros com a polícia.

Após atirar contra os policiais, o assassino teria se escondido atrás de uma porta e atirado em si mesmo, segundo a polícia.

Com agências internacionais
...
written by A brazilian, February 13, 2007
A brazilian, when your government leaders don't respond to the desires of the people, when they put their personal interests in front of the interests of the people, when the very system they participate in is one of CORRUPTION, the PEOPLE have a RESPONSIBILITY to take action!!!


You seem to be willing to incite some civil war, I don't see how that would benefit anybody and this is defnitely not the reality of Brazil. The problem of corruption and crime won't be solved by emotional-driven speeches, broad generalizations and mea culpa. This exact behavior of yours serves only to cloud the judgement instead of providing alternatives.

People must be aware of their individual responsibilities, as citizens, of what they must do in order to improve society. I do my part, so do millions of other brazilians. But, no team, or nation, or machine, or system, will work as expected if some parts of it, or members, or citizens don't their part. When everyone does what is best for themselves the society, as a whole, wins.

Pinpointing responsibilities, be it the secretary of security or some other authority is necessary. They are the ones with the power granted by the state to take actions to combat this, and they must face the consequences if they aren't competent enough. What the Zé Ninguém linving in the middle of nowhere can do? Nothing.

There manifestations for the peace in Rio, what did it solve? Public involvement in politics is so overrated.

Don't think in the US the people is more politically conscious, they may want to be but the great mass of morons will be manipulated like pawns to carry a few on their shoulders, the true democratic modus operandi, lies, lies and more lies.
...
written by bo, February 13, 2007
...
written by jabmalassie, 2007-02-13 10:31:16

Are there any reliable statistics on the murder rate in Brazil???



Brazil murder rate similar to war zone, data shows
BRASILIA, Brazil (Reuters) - More than 150 Brazilians were murdered each day last year on average, putting Brazil on a par with some war zones in terms of its homicide rate, the Justice Ministry said on Monday.

BRASILIA, Brazil (Reuters) - More than 150 Brazilians were murdered each day last year on average, putting Brazil on a par with some war zones in terms of its homicide rate, the Justice Ministry said on Monday.

Some 55,000 Brazilians died of homicide in 2005 -- a few thousand more civilians than in three years of war in Iraq, according to leading estimates.

Brazil, a continent-sized nation of 185 million people starkly divided into rich and poor, has had notoriously high crime rates for years. Millions of poor live in urban slums and unpoliced rural areas where guns are easy to come by.

Though the murder rate is high, Marcelo Durante, coordinator of the Justice Ministry's report, said homicides have fallen slowly in recent years thanks in part to an initiative to collect guns from the streets.

Citizens have voluntarily turned in thousands of weapons in places like Rio de Janeiro, the famous beachside city whose urban slums have some of the highest crime rates in Brazil.

A referendum in 2005 to ban gun sales failed, in part because some voters had lost faith in police.

"It was the states that collected the most guns that saw crime rates fall most," said Durante, "but we have to remember it's not just about guns."

Other kinds of violent crime in Brazil are far more common than statistics show, Durante said, adding that urban surveys suggest only a quarter of all robberies and 15 percent of all rapes are reported nationwide.

"At least with homicide, we can be a little more confident most of the crimes are getting reported," he said.

Murders also declined in Brazil's largest city of Sao Paulo in recent years, Durante said. Earlier this year, however, a gang known as First Command of the Capital launched a series of attacks on police, banks and buses in which about 200 police, gangsters and innocent civilians were killed.
...
written by bo, February 13, 2007
You seem to be willing to incite some civil war, I don't see how that would benefit anybody...



And that's the problem. Brazil has NEVER had any type of revolution. Your electors continue to rob the country blind while millions upon millions live in squalor and a "handful" enjoy their positions of authority and wealth. It's coming back to haunt brazilians, Rio is a microcosm of what will happen throughout this entire country if the gap between income distribution is not closed within the next 30 years, and current trends have the gap widening, not closing.

Don't even try and compare the the "politcally consciousness" of the U.S. with brazil. In the first place your talking about a country where nearly EVERYONE has at least a high school education, and large percentages have COLLEGE(university) educations, whereas brazil there are HUGE problems in education and literacy.

We've already had our revolution, and groups protest everday in the U.S., reporters report everyday in the U.S., without the fear of being murdered. As in the journalist that just took 8 bullets to the head here in brazil and reported on this very site. When you talk about "brazil" a brazilian, you always leave off a HUGE percentage of your own people, those that are POOR, which account for approximately 25% of the brazilian population. I know your type would love to forget about them, but they're not going away, and their numbers are growing.
...
written by bo, February 13, 2007
Bastard north americans !
written by Old one, 2007-02-13 11:45:25

13/02/2007 - 04h32
Ataques de homens armados deixam oito mortos nos EUA
Publicidade
da Folha Online

Ataques de atiradores solitários em dois Estados diferentes dos EUA deixaram pelo menos oito mortos nesta segunda-feira (12).

Em um dos tiroteios, um homem armado assassinou cinco pessoas dentro de um shopping center em Salt Lake, no Estado de Utah, até ser morto por um policial de folga.

No outro incidente, um atirador matou três pessoas numa reunião entre diretores de uma empresa na Filadélfia, no Estado da Pensilvânia, e depois se matou, segundo a polícia local.

Morte no shopping

O shopping Trolley Square, de Salt Lake, foi invadido por um homem com uma espingarda, que passou a disparar aleatoriamente contra os clientes, no início da noite (horário local). Além das cinco mortes, pelo menos quatro pessoas ficaram feridas, três delas em estado grave.

As vítimas foram baleadas em pontos diferentes do shopping. Aparentemente, o assassino atirou ao acaso. As pessoas foram mortas simplesmente porque estavam passando.

A matança foi interrompida pela ação de um policial de folga, que, segundo testemunhas, baleou o atirador numa loja de roupas infantis. O policial não se feriu.

Negócios interrompidos

O tiroteio da Filadélfia ocorreu numa sala de conferências do Centro de Negócios Navais, por volta das 20h30 de segunda (horário local). O assassino alvejou quatro pessoas: três morreram e a outra permanece internada em estado grave.

Outras duas pessoas estavam na sala, mas não foram atingidas. O local se transformou num cenário de "caos absoluto", nas palavras do comissário de polícia Richard Ross.

Segundo a polícia, o homem conseguiu entrar na sala dizendo que tinha um "assunto de dinheiro" a tratar com os diretores. Armado com uma pistola, ele disparou contra as pessoas da sala e em seguida trocou tiros com a polícia.

Após atirar contra os policiais, o assassino teria se escondido atrás de uma porta e atirado em si mesmo, segundo a polícia.

Com agências internacionais




oooooooh!! You got an entire 11 people murdered from Utah to Pennsylvania!!!! From the west coast to the east!! LOL!!

You can get that in Chacinas in around 20 minutes....

Pelo menos 27 pessoas, incluindo crianças, morreram hoje de madrugada em duas chacinas na região metropolitana do Rio de Janeiro, anunciaram fontes policiais. Outras duas pessoas estão internadas em estado grave em hospitais das cidades de Nova Iguaçú e Queimados, na região conhecida como Baixada Fluminense.

And that type of s**t is COMMON!!! No big deal, just another day in Rio!!!

And I'm not even mentioning the MOST dangerous place in Brazil....it's NOT in Rio!! It's in Pernambuco, a suburb of Recife!! Where they have a whopping murder rate of 180 per 100,000!!!

To put things in perspective, the MOST dangerous city in the U.S. is New Orleans with a murder rate of 42 per 100,000!!
...
written by A brazilian, February 13, 2007
And that's the problem. Brazil has NEVER had any type of revolution. Your electors continue to rob the country blind while millions upon millions live in squalor and a "handful" enjoy their positions of authority and wealth. It's coming back to haunt brazilians, Rio is a microcosm of what will happen throughout this entire country if the gap between income distribution is not closed within the next 30 years, and current trends have the gap widening, not closing.


What is your point, a revolution for the sake of a revolution? To scare investors and skilled people away? To bring even more misery and death? To make this country go back 50 years in history? This is just as stupid as the bolivian president nationalizing every international company, completely backwards. The times of "revolutions" are long gone.

Gap widening? Just like the US?

We've already had our revolution, and groups protest everday in the U.S., reporters report everyday in the U.S., without the fear of being murdered. As in the journalist that just took 8 bullets to the head here in brazil and reported on this very site. When you talk about "brazil" a brazilian, you always leave off a HUGE percentage of your own people, those that are POOR, which account for approximately 25% of the brazilian population. I know your type would love to forget about them, but they're not going away, and their numbers are growing.


What revolution happened in the 20th century? Protests don't make things change, not in regards to crime, effectively fighting of the causes of it do.

The big mass of morons in the US is manipulated in what a few groups with power want, that's the reality of democracy. Just take a look at the coverage of the "War on Terror", right in the beginning. Reporters received complaints from people and were risked losing their jobs if they expressed opinions against the war. Now, after the humiliating situation of getting your asses kicked by some 3rd world terrorists, ít's easy to speak against it.

Stop this talk of telling us what we need to do, you have no clue of what you are talking about. I can assure you that getting guns and start some revolution to bring this country down once and for all is the stupidest idea ever conceived. There must be some hidden desire in americans to see Brazil in civil war and genocide. Despite of all the bad media, today, with the country economically stable, it's not even close to that.
...
written by jabmalassie, February 13, 2007
roughly 29 murders per 100,000 (I would think more, unreported cases not included)
If you go to nationmaster.com Colombia, South Africa, Venezuela and Jamaica are higher. I hear Colombia the murder rate is now down to about 18 per 100,000. Jamaicas were up to something like 58/100,000 and SA about the same. I think places like Hati are worse but you never get the statistics I think Brazil is could be alot worse than the statistics say.
Brazil is a huge place and I am sure that there are some areas that are as safe as anywehre else. It's like judging the U.S. by New Orleans alone. I think it is impossible to get an exact figure but you can't deny that crime is a problem in these places.
Bastard north americans ?
written by Concerned in BRazil, February 13, 2007
Bastard north americans ?

What did the Canadians and Mexicans do?
...
written by A brazilian, February 13, 2007
I think Brazil is could be alot worse than the statistics say.


But you still didn't say why you think in Brazil, and in Brazil alone, it could be a lot worse. Why don't you all the statistics for all the places, why specifically Brazil needs to be worse for you?
...
written by jabmalassie, February 13, 2007

#1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
#2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
#3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
#4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
#5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
#6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 people
#7 Estonia: 0.107277 per 1,000 people
#8 Latvia: 0.10393 per 1,000 people
#9 Lithuania: 0.102863 per 1,000 people
#10 Belarus: 0.0983495 per 1,000 people

These are a couple of years old. Based on roughly 29 murders per 100k you would think they would be in the top ten. You would think Haiti would up there as well.
Colombias murder rate is supposedly down to around 18 per 100k based on a recent program on the CBC. The only reason I mention Brazil is because of the stories by Bo and on this site and the media ect. The stats don't seem to match the stories.
militart law look at brazil back when
written by forrest allen brown, February 13, 2007
SEE IF WE BRING BACK THE BRAZILIAN MILITARY FROM HAITI AND PUT THEM ON THE STREETS

SHURE WE WILL LOOSE A FEW BUT WITH THE LARGE SWORD OF THE MILITARY CLOSE OFF THE PLACE AND TAKE AIM

AS FAR AS COLUMBIA THERE PRESIDENT HAS BALLS TO FIGHT THOES WHOM HARM THE COUNTRY FROM TOP TO BOTTOM HE HAS CLEANED HOUSE

AND HIS GNP IS 8% per year
...
written by e harmony, February 13, 2007
New York is roughly the same size as Rio, you don't see this day-to-day violence and murders happening there now do ya? The city of Rio has a population of 6 million, metro Rio has roughly 11 million. Don't try and say that this is "normal" in all cities the size of Rio, Rio is HALF the size of Sao Paulo, so don't try and compare those two. And, Rio is MORE violence than Sao Paulo!!! With twice the number of people....explain that!

Again, you avoided my question....please, name one international city that is NOT at WAR that has had 120 people murdered in the first 11 days of February. You can't do it, because there isn't one.

And once again, for your information GTY, I'm an american living in Brazil, E harmony, which is whom you should've been making your remarks to claims to be an american as well. Although I think she is a first generation american, and I also think she is a female although he/she states otherwise.


I never stated the murder rate in Rio was normal for cities its size, I stated that a 100 murders in 10 days would probably be something like 10 murders commited in 10 days in a town like mine. My city has roughly 500,000 people. In otherwords, numbers wise I'm looking at this more in terms of how a sociologist might in quantative facts, that reduces uneducated stereotype the halmark of highschool lunch room chater.

You ask about an "international city" well I know of none of hand that has a homicide rate as high as Rio de Janeiro. However, while that certainly casts a shadow on Rio, it also speaks to its amazing vitality, allure, and many of its charming people that it is an international city even given its homicide rate. It also should be noted, since New York has been brought up by you, for decades New Yorkers and the city of New York prided itself on its violence, dangers, and cultures of hustle, lies, and manipulation. Everyone in the U.S. has heard New Yorkers brag about how dangerous and greedy and cut throat their city is - at least in the past they did. So, in that relation, I guess Rio and Sao Paulo build stronger and more streetwise people than New York, and Rio makes New York look like a small town in Utah in that sense.

But duplicity and inconsistency in standards is a trait in the American (USA) character. Just look at how black Americans and other Americans note Anita Florence Hemmings as the first black woman graduate from Vassar. Yet while Americans (USA) will pride themselves on her they would turn around and berate Brazilians for a "white person" like her being the elite of Brazilian society.
Anita Florence Hemmings:
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mulattodebate/vpost?id=1693839
. Likewise, Americans (USA) have never had a problem boasting the violence and dangers of their cities and how it makes them better, tougher, and more street savvy, if they are from New York or L.A., in comparison to small towns in the U.S. and larger metros in Europe. But duplicity and inconsistent standards are applied when looking southward to Latin America. H*ll, Americans brag in the rap music they created about the violence of their towns and their own personal will to murder at the slightest infraction to their personal space, egos, or what they want from what you have. They exports this music that brags around the world. So if Americans (USA) consider it bragging rights I guess Rio out trumps New York and L.A. and looks at the two U.S. cities as wannabe prima donnas.

Finally, Rio and Sao Paulo have such huge populations that they are like 7 ft tall 400 lbs men compared to most U.S. cities that are like 18 in 7 lbs infants next to her. Without a doubt, what would break an American city (USA) can not break Rio or Sao Paulo. It's like a Thai boxer kicking the thighs of the 400 lbs man and elbowing his big, ox, jaw. Bruised he recovers, and labors for the next day. The infant U.S. city however can not with stand such forceful and violent kicks.

So yes, Rio knows violence, and her boys, girls, men, women and transsexuals are resilient - so that is admirable. However, crimes like this on this small innocent child being murdered in the most horrendous way is the most despicable and irreverent thing on earth - my stomach can almost not even handle the thought of what was done to that poor child. I can't imagine what that child's family is enduring or how they continue to go on. May justice be done.
...
written by e harmony, February 13, 2007
Er... I meant to post an actual link for Anita Florence Hemmings, here picture can be seen here as well her story read: http://www.websitetoolbox.com/...id=1693839. Beautiful woman.
FREAKZOIDE ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!
written by RocknRIO, February 13, 2007
So yes, Rio knows violence, and her boys, girls, men, women and transsexuals are resilient


And we know how our resident, racially confussed, sex crimes convicted, fruitloop thinks about Trannys!

http://www.brazzilbrief.com/viewtopic.php?t=7960012&start=0
http://www.brazzilboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=420&start=0
http://www.brazzilbrief.com/viewtopic.php?t=6371&start=0

You folks are dealing with one scary MOFO! Be afraid, be VERY afraid.
...
written by e harmony, February 13, 2007
written by bo, 2007-02-13 09:44:46

Another thing is that while this viscous and tragic incident, with this child decapitation in a carjacking, demonstrates the violence endemic in Rio, one must understand even in a city with as many millions of people as Rio, this crime is a rarity that gives it a news value of novelty. If it was common place it would not be shocking to Brazilians or Rio residents - for everyday or almost everyday a child would be getting decapitated in a carjacking.



LOL....you're truly an idiot. Never stepped foot in the country, but you READ about brazil. Well start reading!!! What other cities on a daily basis have police stations attacked?? What other city on a DAILY basis have numerous car jackings and people inside the cars are killed, either shot, or even burned to death while in the car?? How many cities from time to time have GROUPS of people killed, and like last week, TWO of those GROUPS of people were MUTILATED!!

Yea, that's normal.

You can't be that stupid, you must be posting just to get a reaction, because I simply can't believe there are people that exist that are this ignorant.


Bo, once again, one of my black uncles has been to Brazil more than once and was once engaged to a Brazilian woman. My uncle has been to Rio and reports none immediate dangers of doom you do. When I asked him the past about the violence in Rio he simply says there are areas more dangerous than others just as their is in any U.S. city. I think you just demonstrate the de facto hyper racial segregation in the U.S., because black Americans that go to Rio and Brazil rarely whine about the potential of getting robbed or killed. In fact, many white Americans probably don't whine about it either since so many either travel there for vacation or move there for good.
jabmalassie, be more inquiring
written by RocknRIO, February 13, 2007
you got those figures from the site link below...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Brazil does not appear at ALL, meaning NEW ZEALAND and CANADA have higher murder rates, or the creators of said site are idiots and forgot to include one of the world's largest nations. take your pick.
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written by Ric, February 13, 2007
Well, Bo, seems like your uncle nailed it. I couldn´t be more convinced if your aunt and cousins got on board and agreed with Unc.

And of course the white Americans that have actually been murdered in Rio haven´t said one word in protest.
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written by Ric, February 13, 2007
I meant, not Bo, but E Harmony. Sorry, Bo.
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written by e harmony, February 13, 2007
written by GTY, 2007-02-13 00:22:17

Homicide is now the leading cause of death for persons aged 15--44 years. To describe trends and characteristics of homicides countrywide and in São Paulo city (2000 population: approximately 10.4 million) (BGSI, unpublished data, 2004), the State Health Department of São Paulo (SHDSP) analyzed vital statistics and census data for 1980--2002. This report summarizes the results of that analysis, which indicated that the homicide rate in Brazil more than doubled during this period (Figure 1). Since 2001, Brazilian authorities have implemented several initiatives to reduce the number of homicides, including a law that controls gun ownership and prohibits anyone other than police and members of the armed forces from carrying guns. However, homicides among adolescents and young adults remain a substantial public health problem in Brazil, and additional prevention strategies that target young persons are needed.

Bo States: Rio's murder rate was much higher in the 1980's than what it has been for the last couple or few years. So Rio's murder rate has declined.

Get a clue Bo!


Brazil is a country, Rio de Janeiro is a city. Rio's murder rate has declined from the 1980's. Considering you don't know this major sociological transformation it is questionable to what degree of knowledge your opinion has on Rio - that is in relation to your assertion decapitation of small children in carjackings are not "uncommon" in the big cities of Brazil. Murder of innocent peoples, cannibalism, or mutilation and decapitation happen in the United States too. There are many serial killers operating in the U.S. at any given time according to last I remembering reading from the FBI several years back. There are also many children that come up missing in the U.S. - sometimes of which are found to have been hacked to pieces and buried. So viciousness is not limited to Brazilian society.
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written by e harmony, February 13, 2007
Notice this international sting on child porn produces more Americans (USA) than anyone else. Why is not Brazil the nation and nationality with the largest numbers of people busted in this global operation since according to some on this site Brazilians are the worse and numerical majority in all vices and corruptions on earth - where as Americans (USA) are projected as innocent saints who save the world from all vices and injustices. Recent article: http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...htm?csp=34
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written by e harmony, February 13, 2007
Yahoo news today: Teenager in U.S. city guns down innocent people in shopping mall http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...h_shooting. Wait? This only happens in Brazil?
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written by jabmalassie, February 13, 2007
jabmalassie, be more inquiring
written by RocknRIO, 2007-02-13 18:49:26

Did you even read my post with your obnoxious comments.

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written by bo, February 14, 2007
It also should be noted, since New York has been brought up by you, for decades New Yorkers and the city of New York prided itself on its violence, dangers, and cultures of hustle, lies, and manipulation. Everyone in the U.S. has heard New Yorkers brag about how dangerous and greedy and cut throat their city is - at least in the past they did. So, in that relation, I guess Rio and Sao Paulo build stronger and more streetwise people than New York, and Rio makes New York look like a small town in Utah in that sense.

But duplicity and inconsistency in standards is a trait in the American (USA) character. Just look at how black Americans and other Americans note Anita Florence Hemmings as the first black woman graduate from Vassar. Yet while Americans (USA) will pride themselves on her they would turn around and berate Brazilians for a "white person" like her being the elite of Brazilian society.
Anita Florence Hemmings:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/...id=1693839

. Likewise, Americans (USA) have never had a problem boasting the violence and dangers of their cities and how it makes them better, tougher, and more street savvy, if they are from New York or L.A., in comparison to small towns in the U.S. and larger metros in Europe. But duplicity and inconsistent standards are applied when looking southward to Latin America. H*ll, Americans brag in the rap music they created about the violence of their towns and their own personal will to murder at the slightest infraction to their personal space, egos, or what they want from what you have. They exports this music that brags around the world. So if Americans (USA) consider it bragging rights I guess Rio out trumps New York and L.A. and looks at the two U.S. cities as wannabe prima donnas.

Finally, Rio and Sao Paulo have such huge populations that they are like 7 ft tall 400 lbs men compared to most U.S. cities that are like 18 in 7 lbs infants next to her. Without a doubt, what would break an American city (USA) can not break Rio or Sao Paulo. It's like a Thai boxer kicking the thighs of the 400 lbs man and elbowing his big, ox, jaw. Bruised he recovers, and labors for the next day. The infant U.S. city however can not with stand such forceful and violent kicks.

So yes, Rio knows violence, and her boys, girls, men, women and transsexuals are resilient - so that is admirable. However, crimes like this on this small innocent child being murdered in the most horrendous way is the most despicable and irreverent thing on earth - my stomach can almost not even handle the thought of what was done to that poor child. I can't imagine what that child's family is enduring or how they continue to go on. May justice be done.



They're proud huh?? That's funny, one of my best friends lives in NY, I also used to travel there every month for a number of years, NEVER did I see any New Yorkers spouting off in pride about their homicide rate or "bragging" about the number of crimes that are/were committed there.

You're post is so twisted and completely off topic that it shows the twisted ideology you have. You get so far off point, for people like you you would try and make the atrocities of Atilla the Hun an american conspiracy. Somehow it all comes back to the U.S. doesn't it E??? Even the killing of a 6 year old boy in Rio, it all comes back to the U.S.
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written by bo, February 14, 2007
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written by Ric, 2007-02-13 18:53:13

Well, Bo, seems like your uncle nailed it. I couldn´t be more convinced if your aunt and cousins got on board and agreed with Unc.

And of course the white Americans that have actually been murdered in Rio haven´t said one word in protest.



Hear that Ric! Ya know, my best friends' fathers uncles brother was in New Orleans during this so-called "hurricane katrina", according to him there wasn't one drop of rain. He said it's all a black conspiracy to keep all the jumbalaya to themselves....and I believe him!