Brazzil

Since 1989 trying to understand Brazil

Search

Custom Search

Cheap Mobile Phones
---------------
Members : 2183
Content : 3342
Content View Hits : 20479067

Who's Online

We have 301 guests and 1 member online

Login Form



Related Items

Pingo
Breaking News from Brazil
From Brazzil Mag news team
Brazzil Magazine


Brazil's False Image of Racial Harmony Has Accomplice: the Black Population PDF Print E-mail
Written by Mark Wells   
Monday, 12 February 2007 20:55

Brazilian crowd in Salvador, BahiaIn retrospect, I often ponder the following questions: Do people really not see the truth? Do they see it but choose not to acknowledge it? Have they become so accustomed to it that they see nothing peculiar about it? Do they indeed realize but continue to participate in the privileges? Looking at this issue from another perspective, the situation cannot be explained so easily.

On the one hand, while it appears that people don't notice racism in its implicit form, some studies show this not to be the case at all.

For instance, in a study by Camino, da Silva, Machado and Pereira (1), Brazilians were asked their own opinions and what they thought the opinion of other Brazilians would be regarding "natural" attributes correlating to whites and blacks. In a classic example of recognizing prejudice but not seeing prejudice in themselves, Brazilians believed that Brazilian society itself associated negative attributes to blacks and positive attributes to whites.

People in the survey consistently believed that Brazilians in general attributed adjectives such as intelligence and honesty to whites while believing that the society saw blacks as dishonest and aggressive. The study also confirmed that Brazilian society in general sees blacks as being more naturally endowed for sports and the arts while whites are associated with authority and professional employment.

Finally, the study showed that people (themselves or society) associated "third world" qualities such as poverty and being workers with blacks while whites were thought to have more "first world" qualities such being rich, civilized and independent.

The point of this study answers one of my previous questions. Brazilians do indeed clearly see how their society is structured. The results of this study questions the typical reaction regarding poverty when one says that racism doesn't exist because "whites also live in favelas".

In actuality, there is also "inequality according to race within the favela! According to research by Ney dos Santos Oliveira, in marginalized communities (in which blacks are the numerical majority), whites have consistently higher income and reside in favelas on average eight years less than blacks. (2)

Making matters worse, the probability of social ascension of the children of whites belonging to a low socioeconomic class is better than a black child in the same condition. Furthermore, the child of a black parent of higher socioeconomic status runs a higher risk of not being able to maintain this standard of life than a white child of a similar background. (3)

When we begin to realize that inequality persists in all socioeconomic strata of Brazilian society, the question must be asked as to how these inequalities maintain themselves. Classic studies by Carlos Hasenbalg reveal that in both professional and manual labor markets, blacks are paid less money than whites to do the same work. (4) Thus, whiteness brings benefits that have nothing to do with education or socioeconomic status.

Within the different tiers of favelas, whites are often able to build social networks with middle-class whites that blacks do not have access to thus giving them more diverse means of raising themselves out of poverty. Given these facts, it is not as easy to proclaim that race doesn't matter when one is poor.

For, as many activists have proclaimed, it is one thing to be white and poor, but worse being black and poor. Even if we were to consider two poor families, one white and one black, poor whites can still maintain some degree of self-esteem when they turn on a television and see positive and powerful images of themselves in the media, a symbolic luxury that Afro-Brazilians do not have.

Recognition of Privilege

"All of us whites benefit daily, and in an illicit way, by living in a racist society. There are innumerous privileges, small, medium and large, that help us to maintain advantages and concentrate more resources." (5)
- José Jorge de Carvalho, Professor of Anthropology, University of Brasília

There are more clues that address other questions. Activist and Social Psychologist Maria Aparecida ("Cida") Silva Bento believes that there is a secret pact among Brazilian whites to silently accept white privilege without acknowledging it. (6)

Is this an outrageous statement? Consider these facts:

- Lawyer and NGO director Hédio Silva Júnior was once told by a white director of human resources that he felt institutional pressure to hire white employees. Although he felt comfortable around black people and was married to a black woman, he also realized that if he didn't adhere to a policy of white privilege he could lose his job. (7)

- While doing research in Rio, Professor Robin Sheriff was in the company of a group of whites when one announced that "we whites have to stick together." (8)

- A production assistant was fired by a program director when he noticed that a group of black children were seen among other children participating in a recording session. The question was asked, "Foi você quem escolheu aqueles dois negrinhos? (Was it you who chose the little black kids?)" (9)

To the contrary of the belief that they "are all Brazilians", and thus assumedly equal, many white Brazilians are accustomed to having and maintaining a position of power and privilege within the social hierarchy and will often-times react in hostile manners when this hierarchy appears to have been challenged.

Take for instance the story of Conceição Vianna, a black female financier of Mitsubishi's operations in Brazil. Upon graduation from college, she competed with a white male colleague for a position as an accountant. When she got the job, the colleague made a comment that she would not soon forget.

When he learned that she had gotten the position over him, he turned to her and said that if he could, he would get in a time machine, go back in time and kill Princess Isabel. (10) For those who don't know, Princess Isabel is credited with freeing the remainder of Brazil's slaves on May 13, 1888 by signing the Lei Áurea (Golden Law).

Daniel Moreira Alves also knows from personal experience that many whites feel that they are naturally supposed to be in superior positions to blacks. After a car accident in which his nephew hit Alves's car, Silvio Luís Pereira asked Alves who was the owner of the '94 Monza in which he was sitting.

Alves told him that he was the owner. Pereira replied "But how? This is a brand new car and you are black! Blacks aren't people. How does a black guy have a car like this if I am white and I don't have one?" (11) In other words, as he was white and Alves black, there was no way that Alves could possibly have a better, newer car than he.

The social/racial hierarchy in Brazil is the unofficial guarantee of that. These are not simply isolated incidents; they are examples of every day occurrences in modern day Brazil that help maintain a racial hierarchy in all strata of Brazilian society. These attitudes have their historical roots in colonial Brazil where being white meant "to adopt certain superior attitudes, to wield a certain power." (12)

Whiteness also had monetary value. This can be noted in the 17th and 18th centuries, when penniless European men married elite São Paulo women (of mixed Indian-white ancestry) who had dowries which included real estate and slaves. Although the man had no money, he achieved equality through his European ancestry. (13) In essence, whiteness was worth money.

While I highlight the privilege that whiteness brings in Brazil as in other countries, I would like to remind the reader that it is racism itself that supports the idea and ideal of whiteness.

At this point, it is not necessary for anyone to point fingers and proclaim "the United States is far more racist than Brazil", for, as Frantz Fanon once wrote in his classic work Black Skins, White Masks, either "a given society is racist or it is not".

The visionary words of Fanon written over 50 years apply to the United States, Brazil, France or any other society where one racial group oppresses and subjugates another. If one were to substitute Brazil and the United States in this next quote, one could easily apply it to current arguments people make in favor of Brazil when comparing to the US:

Statements, for example, that the north of France is more racist than the south, that racism is the work of underlings and hence in no way involves the ruling class, that France is one of the least racist countries in the world are the product of men incapable of straight thinking. (14)

While Brazil appears to be a country of cordial race relations, beneath the surface is buried the truth. According to Mário Sérgio Cortella, a Post-Graduate professor at Pontifícia Universidade Católica of São Paulo, Brazil never needed a formal South Africa-styled apartheid because "blacks never in fact disputed the space of whites in the job market in commanding posts". As such, Brazilian racism only shows its hostility in "moments that negritude threatens the space of the Indo-European."(15)

Recent disputes over the application of quotas to ensure that afrodescendentes have access to Brazilian universities seem to illustrate Cortella's conclusion quite well.

In researching the Brazilian situation, it is a conclusion that I fully agree with. Over the years, Brazil has managed to maintain a worldwide image of racial harmony and cordiality while simultaneously practicing as cruel a form of racial exclusion as any other racist regime.

It has managed to do so with an almost complete complicity of its huge African descendent population making the feat all the more impressive, if one could call visibly invisible racism impressive.

Footnotes

1. Camino, Leôncio; da Silva, Patrícia; Machado, Aline and Pereira, Cícero. A Face Oculta do Racismo no Brasil: Uma Análise Psicossociológica. Revista Psicologia Política. Volume 1, Number 1, Jan./June 2001. [Available online April 22, 2006] http://www.fafich.ufmg.br/~psicopol/pdfv1r1/Leoncio.pdf

2. Oliveira, Ney dos Santos 2002 "Direito das/dos negras/os: distribuição racial, pobreza e moradia na região metropolitana do Rio de Janeiro", Anais XXI Encontro e VI Congresso Arquisur (Salvador, Faculdade de Arquitetura, Universidade Federal da Bahia) as quoted in João H. Costa Vargas's "Apartheid brasileiro: raça e segregação residencial no Rio de Janeiro" in Revista de Antropologia, Volume 48, number 1, São Paulo Jan./Jun. 2005.

3. Programa das Nações Unidas para o Desenvolvimento. Relatório de Desenvolvimento Humano: Racismo, pobreza e violência. Brasil 2005.
[Available online June 12, 2006]

4. Hasenbalg, Carlos. "Perspectives on Race and Class in Brazil" in Crook, Larry and Johnson, Randal. Black Brazil: Culture, Identity, and Social Mobilization. UCLA Latin American Center Publications, Los Angeles, 1999

5. Carvalho, J. J. "As Ações Afirmativas como Resposta ao Racismo Acadêmico e seu Impacto nas Ciências Sociais Brasileiras". Série Antropologia, Brasília, volume 358, 2004

6. Carone, Iray and Bento, Maria Aparecida Silva (orgs.). Psicologia Social do Racismo: estudos sobre branquitude e branqueamento no Brasil. 2 ed. Petrópolis, Rio de Janeiro. Editora Vozes. 2003

7. Telles, Edward. Racismo à Brasileira. Rio de Janeiro: Relume Dumará, 2003.

8. Sheriff, Robin. Dreaming Equality: Color, Race, and Racism in Urban Brazil. Rutgers University Press, 2001.

9. "Racismo no ar: Crianças negras ficam longe das câmaras". Veja. May 13, 1992 as quoted in Amelia Simpson's Xuxa: The Mega-Marketing of Gender, Race, and Modernity. Temple University Press. 1993.

10. Pinheiro, Daniela. "A classe média negra". Revista Veja. Issue number 1611, year 32, #33. São Paulo, Editora Abril, August 8, 1999.

11. Bertolino, Élidi. "Racismo no trânsito." Raça Brasil magazine. No. 37.
September 1999.

12. Mattoso, Katia M. De Queiros. To Be a Slave in Brazil, 1550-1888.
Rutgers University Press. 1994.

13. Nazzari, Muriel. "Concubinage in Colonial Brazil: the Inequalities of Race, Class and Gender." Journal of Family History. Volume 21, April 1996.

14. Fanon, Frantz. Black Skin, White Masks. 1967 (1952) Grove Press.

15. Rodrigues, Greice and Rita Moraes. "O negro é invisível". Isto É. March 5, 2003.http://www.terra.com.br/istoe/1744/1744vermelhas.htm

Mark Wells holds a Bachelor's Degree in Anthropology from the University of Michigan-Dearborn and is currently working on a Master's Degree in Social Justice at Marygrove College in Detroit, Michigan. He can be reached at quilombhoje72@yahoo.

© 2007 Mark Wells

Comments (121)Add Comment
Wrong premises, incorrect conclusions
written by A brazilian, February 13, 2007
A series of cherry-picked stories told by activists to support the image you are trying to sell to the rest of the world of Brazil, that is widely practiced and supported around here, and as any other text produced by you and published in here, It's not true, it's more like the wishful thinking of an american trying to "teach" brazilians about "the only truth". Following a well known discourse and reasoning accepted by activists in order to support their agenda.

I have a problem with your first citation, they cite many other studies made in Europe and in the US where the segregation is big and that is not appliable to Brazil, but the worst of it is that seems to try to fall in the mistake of bogus statistics (many that you have repeated to the exhaustion, by the way) like the "lower wages". It's not reasonable to think that in the same company two individuals might make different amount of money simply because they are of different races, this data is simply the average that doesn't take into consideration the differences in economy in the different regions of the country, or the different realities accross many companies.

For example, with R$ 2000,00 you can have a nice life in the Northeast, but in Sao Paulo you will be low middle class, and will definetely not have a luxurious life. The cost of life is much higher there, therefore the salaries are higher than anywhere else, be it a skilled job or not. There are differences even inside of the same state, between large and small cities. These numbers are inevitably biased.

This kind of misinterpretation is everywhere in your texts. Another common is the misinterpretation of "political correctness". Most people will say there's racism, too much crime, too much corruption, too much bad things, too much everything, simply because this is the perceived atittude of conscious citizen, if they say otherwise then they are a possible target to personal attacks as we see so commonly in this forum, where many people bash anyone that shows a different point of view that doesn't match with the "political correctness" expected by our society. The authors show the "political correct" thing, and people are expected to go along with it, without questioning the truthfulness of the affirmations.

Now, the same people that say that there's racism in Brazil don't think they are racist themselves, why is that? That's because they were being politically correct! This is used as basis of a whole argumentation of "they are hiding racism". Without it this castle of cards crumbles.

They just go to a small group, make questions and take simple percentages. This is by no means representative of the whole country, even if their conclusions were correct, which it is not the case.

I don't buy it. It looks more like activist stuff in disguise of "intellectual work".

The "good qualities" and "bad qualities" thing is just a reflex of what we see in the society, not the way we want to see it. For historical reasons the blacks were always in the lower part of the pyramid, and despite of the many advancements, there's still this difference. It doesn't mean that's the way people want to be! There's nothing preventing black people from advancing, if they don't then there's something wrong. We have some too much social inequality, and poverty or stupidity are the main causes of it.

This argument of "people practices racism" in their judgements based on color is pure fantasy. If there were such widespread thing, then there wouldn't be mixing at all. People living together is not an anomaly around here, and not badly seen, it happens everywhere. If people were so worried about "whiteness" they would avoid mixing at all, and would create very specific ethnics myths such as americans do, with all the Aryan stuff and who is white and who is not classifications.

I would like to say that I always thought I was better than anyone else (be it white, black, moreno, etc), this is called "self-confidence" and has helped me to achieve much of the goals I set for myself, but it doesn't matter what anyone think of anybody, it doesn't change what you are capable of. People should be empowered through education, not taught to be victims forever suffering unjustice.There will always be differences it's up to everybody to fight for improvement.

For last, there's no racism in Brazil. A few idiots, and I know they exist, aren't enough to characterize the whole society of 180 million people. Anyone, foreigner or brazilian can tell how blacks are not oppressed in here.
...
written by Luca, Roma, Italy, February 13, 2007
I agree with Mark Wells as far as he quotes examples of racial-based segregation in Brazil, racism DOES exist in Brazil even if I do not agree with his propoposals regarding the implementation of American-style culturally segregationist solutions where cultural gropus are created and divided with barbed wire fences according to skin color. Besides it would be totally unnatural (i.e. unbrazilian) to promote the cultural differetiation of black Brazilian people in a country where, unlike the US, blacks and whites (and mulattos and native americans too and all the 20000000 shades in between) DO share a high percentage of common culture that makes Brazil so beautiful and unique. In order to fight the evil of racism, let's not strenghten it even more with American recipes. America toady is obsessed with money and sees society only though dollar bills, considering people not as citizens but just as consumers of goods, what's important as a human being is to have the same financial resources as other human being (culture is just a tool to get that not a quality itself) when paying at the local mall where all social activity is carried out. So the dream of an equal society is the one where Black and Whites have the same money and each lives in his/her own planet. I walk around Brazil and see a beautiful country where old men of all colours sit around a table and play cards or play some music. Let's not change that, let's not mix the battle against racism and segregation with the evil of cultural fences.
(US School of cultural segregationism....: a few days ago I have stumbled upon one more time to some very bitter and negative reamarks about interracial couples in "Ebony" magazine, felt a bit sad noticing this NAZI garbage marring once again what is usually an informative magazine for those interested in African American culture...). Racist white and black people are making the life of all mulatto people in the States real hell as they don't fit in neither of their categories.






For anyone interested in racial dynamics as far as language and slang are concerned Prof. jennifer ROthe Gordon has written soem very informative essays.

http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Race_Ethnicity/roth-gordon/writing.htm
racism
written by Luca, Roma, Italy, February 13, 2007
I don't agree with Mark Wells when he says that Brazil hides racist attitudes of some of its white and mulatto citizens and Brazilian society as a whole. It is actually the contrary, everyone is totally aware of them, what I condemn is rather that Brazilians tend to have passive attitude towarsd it : (same applies regarding politics & corruption). I was watching the very beautiful tv series "Cidade dos Homens" showing two favela kids Acerola & Laranjinha growing up and judging society aound them. Nothing was hidden: in the 4th edition they are told they cannot get a job because they are black ("good appearance"), the mother of a rich white girl Laranjingha is dating doesn't want her daughter to date a black guy (but hey !!! in Brazil you see many black kids french kissing prime time white girls...something which seems still totally forbidden in "politically-correct" US...).
Luca
written by A brazilian, February 13, 2007
I think the things you mention aren't racism. Here is what I think:

- The guy is a favelado, if I had a daughter I wouldn't want her to date a favelado too. Would you? What kind of future would they have in the favela?

- And good appearance counts for some kinds of jobs, especially the ones that deal with the public. I have seen already obese people not being hired for the same reason. Usually thin, good looking and well dressed people seem to get those jobs. Is this fair? I don't know, but sure it makes sense since the public will see this person face and associate it with a company or brand.

For the same reason you see models being used for all kinds of advertisement campaigns. Do we really see pretty women drinking beer in dirty bars? Do we really see sportsmen smoking cigarretes?
A Brazilian
written by Luca, Roma, Italy, February 13, 2007
No I do not agree. Discrimination against obese people is understandable when it entails certain jobs where looks are necessary (models etc.). Yet the "good appearance" discriminating against Black people in Brazilian job market is racist as it is just based on skin color (especially in a country where it is full of beautiful Black girls and boys like Brazil). Even Darlan Cunha "Laranjinha" is a very good-looking guy so it is obvious "good appearance" request is just a racist trick to discriminate black people. And I don't think it is the fact that he is a favelado the real problem there...
...
written by Joseph, February 13, 2007
Lets reverse this from the bad whities taking advantage of the poor blackies....into a question. Why are blacks usually lower on the social scale in many societies, even those where they are a majority? It cant always be the failing of the lighter races...maybe....just maybe the problem lies with the darker one.......if anyone has a reason (and not an obviously racist one) I would like to hear it because I am tired of the blame always with the lighter ones....it just seems to convinient to blame others
Luca
written by A brazilian, February 13, 2007
Not only modeling jobs but jobs that deal directly with customers, such as working in a shopping mall store or a bank. They will give preference to "good appearence", usually it means a good socio-economical level, no visible deformities nor diseases, no obesity, being attractive a plus.

I am not saying this is the right thing. What I mean is that we live in a society where such images are used to sell people all kinds of things, and it's not only models that need to be thin.
...
written by bo, February 13, 2007
For last, there's no racism in Brazil. A few idiots, and I know they exist, aren't enough to characterize the whole society of 180 million people. Anyone, foreigner or brazilian can tell how blacks are not oppressed in here.




Jesus you're as dumb as an ox. You are the epitomy of the blind, ignorant, flag-waving brazilian.
...
written by Ric, February 13, 2007
He doesn´t get around much any more.
...
written by Dante, February 13, 2007
I am sorry if I offended anybody. I used harsh language when I said 'vicious', the truth is that I want things to work for Brazil, and for this to happen people need to see the problems that this country has. I read some of the articles written by Mr Mark Wells and I was impressed by his lack of knowledge regarding Brazil, what a shame, this racial talk does not build any good for Brazil, and it is actually very frustrating to see him posing behind such bad sources. Mr. Wells did you know that Brazil lacks historical documentation that maintain your points of argument. This is the reality. Gilberto Freyre used mostly lousy arguments when he wrote his book 'Masters and Slaves' he did not have historical documentation to back his claims. Most of it was destroyed by the Brazilian government in the past, look at what Rui Barbosa did with brazilian records of slavary after the end of the Empire. Study more, as I understand you are getting a master now. I would recommend you use primary sources to do your research. Thank you Dante
Dante and A Brazilian
written by The American Historian, February 13, 2007
You and A Brazilian have made serious charges regarding the poor sources and research of Mark Wells. Now if this is true, the folks who run this site are doing a serious disservice to the public by running articles by a man who has NO IDEA what he is talking about. Moreover, Wells himself is extremely careless publishing his sources when he knows you folks can so easily point to how bad they are. If I were perpetrating such a fraud, I would not publish my sources. Both possibilities seem very unlikely to me, but I will be in favor of an effort to ban Wells from this site if you can show me the specific facts he cites that can be refuted per other published works. Anyone willing to start the ball rolling guys? What, is that deafening silence I hear?
Oh well, at least North Korea is going to end its nuclear program according to news reports.
...
written by Ric, February 13, 2007
Agree 100% with comment about Gilberto Freyre.
principal
written by makeba, February 13, 2007
I believe everyone has a point to a certain degree...not all right nor all wrong. But I tell you...I was so happy when I was introduced to the culture in 1997..Ive never looked back since..I have experienced some racsist attitudes in Rio before but it wont stop me from enjoying the country and the culture. I plan on marrying one of those lovely women, so I will have to deal with it...as a black american I am used to a little racism from both sides (i have a lighter complexion)...ce la vie, (spelling?) i just want to be happy...given the pretty landscape, beaches, good food and music...I will take the bad in stride....be positive and happy!
To the Amecian Historian
written by Dante, February 13, 2007
Let's not ban anybody, he is currently a student and he is learning about the country just like I am and you are, we always have something to learn and to improve. It is easy to be passionate regarding subjects like this; I was irrational in my discussion with Peter and 'a Brazilian'. They returned bad comments regarding myself. I came to the conclusion that we are building nothing and we are only confusing people. Let’s not take this discussion to such bad levels. Americans and Brazilians have good points and bad points just as makeba said. I appreciate your concern regarding his sources. The sources are really bad. My point is: racism really exists in Brazilian society, but not as badly as he says. The historical references regarding racism are hard to prove since primary sources in Brazil are very hard to find. All we have today regarding the history of slavery in Brazil are a few journals and local references regarding the subject. The main files regarding slavery were burned by the Brazilian government in order to avoid 'future problems'. Sao Paulo lost most of its files from the 16th to the 17th century. The Portuguese files in Lisbon were also mostly lost; a few things remain in the "Torre do Tombo". The Portuguese files were mostly lost during the Earthquake of Lisbon during the 18th century. This is the reason why Brazilian history is so badly written; even if authors tried to look for them it was very hard to get your hands on them. Another example of a bad source is when Mr. Wells said that Elite women from Sao Paulo were a mix of ‘indian and white’. There is no evidence that this is correct. One author wrote about the mixing of Portuguese and natives in the beginning of the 16th century, his name was Luiz Gonzaga da Silva Leme, his research was genealogical and based mostly on oral history from the 19th century. Brazilians (Portuguese) were becoming very nationalist when Silva Leme wrote his book, and they used this to differentiate them from the Portuguese born in Portugal. The Paulistas actually acted superior to the Portuguese, they thought that they had more rights to the land since they had blood from the Portuguese nobility and were also descendents from the first 'Leader' of Sao Paulo, in this case native chief 'Tibirica'. It is interesting to trace a parallel here to the history of Virginia, were the Southern Aristocracy of the United States made the same claims during the Civil War. Well, if you ask me if I believe all this I will say, show me documents proving it. The truth is that they do not exist. So the claim that Elite women from Sao Paulo were mixed is more Myth than history. I hope I helped you and others better understand the issues we are dealing here. Brazilian historians that wrote books after Silva Leme always repeated the same lousy arguments. Another point here, Brazilian history never suffered a review like American history did. By the way I worked doing historical research in the United States for years and I worked specially with slavery and Southern families from the United States. The American South had a very similar history if compared to Sao Paulo, until the civil war obviously. The North of Brazil in the other hand had a system close to the Caribbean and can not be compared to the US. That is why Freyre got most of his research wrong. He believed that Americans treated slaves much worst than Brazilians. Again, he was wrong. Americans treated their slaves better than North Brazilians and similar to Paulistas.
...
written by Dante, February 14, 2007
A good link regarding the Virgina Aristocracy and Matoaka http://xroads.virginia.edu/~cap/POCA/POC-home.html
...
written by Dante, February 14, 2007
website of the University of Virginia:

"As stated, Pocahontas had been assumed as both a literal and figurative mother of Virginia's elite whites. Through her marriage with Rolfe she was in fact progenitor to many of the state's 'unofficial' aristocracy--John Marshall, John Randolph, and Thomas Jefferson all claimed space in the family tree. Indeed, the tracing of her genealogy proved a popular pastime for these elites.

As debates over the legitimacy of slavery grew more strident, the Plantation holders used the Pocahontas legend to legitimate their place in society and way of life. John Esten Cooke's 1861 "A Dream of the Cavaliers" proclaims Pocahontas as "Virgin Queen of the West" a counterpart to England's "Virgin Queen", Elizabeth I. These two matriarchs legitimate each other in some ways, and more specifically the modern ante-bellum slave empire."

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~cap/POCA/POC-sect.html
...
written by doutornova, February 14, 2007
racism exists everywhere, but in Brazil it`s less aggressive than in the US or in other countries that have real racism problems, I think that most Brazilians acknowledge that.
...
written by Luca Roma, Italy, February 14, 2007


I totally agree. Wells has a right to write about anything he wants and if anyone does not agree with what he says they can come up with facts proving he is wrong. Simply saying he is a foreigner and should thus stop writing about Brazil or doing research about Brazil is wrong. Remember we all are ignorant and life is all about learning day by day. Debates are always stimulating especially when they have a different perspective as it always is with a foreigner's view.When looking at our countries we sometimes tend to consider normal what might not be normal so we should welcome different prespectives. For the same reason I disagree when I hear Italian historians criticizing "a priori" foreign historians or researchers writing about Italian history/politics or society for example.
The American Historian
written by Luca Roma, Italy, February 14, 2007
I agree with your post
...
written by bo, February 14, 2007
The historical references regarding racism are hard to prove since primary sources in Brazil are very hard to find. All we have today regarding the history of slavery in Brazil are a few journals and local references regarding the subject. The main files regarding slavery were burned by the Brazilian government in order to avoid 'future problems'. Sao Paulo lost most of its files from the 16th to the 17th century. The Portuguese files in Lisbon were also mostly lost; a few things remain in the "Torre do Tombo". The Portuguese files were mostly lost during the Earthquake of Lisbon during the 18th century. This is the reason why Brazilian history is so badly written



Hitler "lost" his files as well pertaining to how many million jews died during dentist visits by "accidental" overdoses of gas. Think it's pretty safe to assume that holocaust thing was all a big hoax.
American Historian
written by A brazilian, February 14, 2007
Once you are confronted with facts you just use the card "show me published works". In the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century there were something called "scientific racism", where some scientists had evidences of the superiority of some races. Was this right? Probably, for many "american historians" around the globe.

And that was with biology, that's far easier to prove than the topics selected by the author. Now this kind of study doesn't involve any mathematical certainty or reproducible experiment we can all see by ourselves and say it is 100% undeniably true, it's simply a conclusion that relies on shoddy statistics, non provable historical "facts", the author's own interpretation of them and his personal values.

Have you actually read the first citation? I invite you to do so. Actually this was the first citation that actually was something closer to a study. Until then Mark Wells had cited opinions, blogs, websites, newsites, and all kinds of worthless pieces of text.

For example, in the text the author cite a study made in Europe with europeans testing their "racism" towards immigrants, and made a parallel to the brazilian situation. How's that possible!? Blacks aren't aliens in here, they haven't arrived last week! And there isn't a clear line separating "us vs them" just like it is in the case of "europeans vs immigrants" and "whites vs blacks in the US"!

Another example, the author asks if the group thinks there's racism, the vast majority says "yes" (being political correct), and then he concludes something like if they say that it exists but they don't see themselves as racists then they are hiding it, or it proves that racism is hidden in Brazil. For me it only proves they were being politically correct.

Besides, this goes completely against anything we see, live and learn in this society and it is, fundamentally, illogical. If there were so much values attribute to one certain race then we would see laws and cultural segregation in order to make sure the white are still pure white. The very idea of "whitening for pleasing Europe" that black activists use is stupid because according to Europeans there's no such thing, if there's mixing then you are not whitening anybody, you are just blackening them.
...
written by bo, February 14, 2007
American Historian
written by A brazilian, 2007-02-14 11:18:35

Once you are confronted with facts you just use the card "show me published works". In the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century there were something called "scientific racism", where some scientists had evidences of the superiority of some races. Was this right? Probably, for many "american historians" around the globe.

And that was with biology, that's far easier to prove than the topics selected by the author. Now this kind of study doesn't involve any mathematical certainty or reproducible experiment we can all see by ourselves and say it is 100% undeniably true, it's simply a conclusion that relies on shoddy statistics, non provable historical "facts", the author's own interpretation of them and his personal values.

Have you actually read the first citation? I invite you to do so. Actually this was the first citation that actually was something closer to a study. Until then Mark Wells had cited opinions, blogs, websites, newsites, and all kinds of worthless pieces of text.

For example, in the text the author cite a study made in Europe with europeans testing their "racism" towards immigrants, and made a parallel to the brazilian situation. How's that possible!? Blacks aren't aliens in here, they haven't arrived last week! And there isn't a clear line separating "us vs them" just like it is in the case of "europeans vs immigrants" and "whites vs blacks in the US"!

Another example, the author asks if the group thinks there's racism, the vast majority says "yes" (being political correct), and then he concludes something like if they say that it exists but they don't see themselves as racists then they are hiding it, or it proves that racism is hidden in Brazil. For me it only proves they were being politically correct.

Besides, this goes completely against anything we see, live and learn in this society and it is, fundamentally, illogical. If there were so much values attribute to one certain race then we would see laws and cultural segregation in order to make sure the white are still pure white. The very idea of "whitening for pleasing Europe" that black activists use is stupid because according to Europeans there's no such thing, if there's mixing then you are not whitening anybody, you are just blackening them.



This is "A brazilian II", for those of you that may be confused. In contrast to "A brazilian I" who normally can't put two congruent sentences together and has major problems with prepositions, not to mention takes higher doses of ritalin.
A Brazilian II
written by The American Historian, February 14, 2007
I think you are right Bo, this is A Brazilian II or maybe even A Brazilian III of the new and improved variety. I feel like the guy who picked a fight with the boy Brazilian but now the bigger older brother has stepped into the fight. Let me ponder my response.....
Dante
written by The American Historian, February 14, 2007
You do raise some interesting points above. And I have argued there are more similarities between the old White American southern elites and the old elites of Brazil than many Brazilians want to admit. I think you could add some interesting points to these discussions.
...
written by bo, February 14, 2007
A Brazilian II
written by The American Historian, 2007-02-14 14:30:23

I think you are right Bo, this is A Brazilian II or maybe even A Brazilian III of the new and improved variety. I feel like the guy who picked a fight with the boy Brazilian but now the bigger older brother has stepped into the fight. Let me ponder my response.....



LOL...I fee ya!
Brazil is not a racist country
written by Brazilian Guy, February 15, 2007
I think that, if the unique country in the world where the races were mixed is racist, what can we say about the other countries?
I don´t agree with the article at all.
...
written by Ric, February 15, 2007
As someone has repeatedly pointed out, there is no racism in Brazil. There is, however, racial predudice.
errata
written by Ric, February 15, 2007
prejudice
...
written by A brazilian, February 15, 2007
Only in the minds of american racists, of all colors.
To A brazilian
written by Dante, February 15, 2007
What? Of course there is racism in Brazil. Unless you live in an isolated Island in the coast of Brazil you are completely wrong. Have you seen the data regarding race in Salvador? Brazil is a very complex country; it should not be analyzed with a broad generic view. The reality in Rio Grande do Sul is completely different from the reality in Amapa or Alagoas. It is truth that Brazil is changing fast and the media is making Brazil gain a broad and united culture. This is recent, Getulio Vargas started it.
...
written by A brazilian, February 15, 2007
Would you mind to share that data you are talking about? For me this is more of those "politically correct" talks. It's not obvious that there would be racism in Brazil, unless you are expecting it to have, which would means a preconceived idea, more likely due to the "politically correct" mania.
...
written by Ric, February 15, 2007
That is a good post, Dante. When I came to Brazil in the late 60´s to live I asked my aunt about Getulio.

"We liked him", she said.

That´s a true story but reminds me of one told about Castro. Guy visiting Cuba asks a Cuban what he thinks about Castro. "Not here, too many people". So they go down an alley. "Not here, there are windows, someone might be listening". At the end of the alley is a vacant lot, with weeds, the Cuban looks carefully and takes the gringo to the middle of the lot. He gets close and whispers, "I like him!".



...
written by Dante, February 15, 2007

Data on Salvador, Bahia (United Nations):

http://www.pnud.org.br/raca/reportagens/index.php?id01=2050&lay=rac

Yes, Ric. Regarding Vargas, he was a fascist that is loved in Brazil to this day. The new generation does not realize what he did to the country. Something even more interesting, the supporters of Getulio are normally left wingers and communists. Weird!
Dante
written by A brazilian, February 15, 2007
Could you please explain how this data proves "racism"?
A brazilian
written by Dante, February 15, 2007
Oh, I forgot, you have problems interpreting. I will tell you what. Do you live in Sao Paulo? Go to one of the many ‘favelas’ in your city, and look for a black person. I know you can find black people in other parts of the town, but it is much harder. Take the person to the Iguatemi Mall, give the person some money and ask the person to buy something. Watch what happens. You can even use a video camera, if that person is treated just as a white person, I will take back everything I said. A brazilian, I lived in Brazil for many years, I saw it everyday.
State Song of Kentucky
written by Ric, February 15, 2007
The sun shines bright in the old Kentucky home,
`Tis summer, the darkies* are gay.....

"*darkies" changed in 1988 by legislative action to "people"

Dante
written by A brazilian, February 15, 2007
Once again you jump to conclusions based solely on your faith and preconceived ideas. The text says 99% of people killed are non-whites in a population whose the total quantity of non-whites comprise more than 80%. That's not racism. Racism would be if it were 99%, all of them killed by whites, which is not the case, where the population of non-whites were only 20% or some other low number.

How many of those 99% of people killed were killed by whites? So blacks killing blacks count as racism? It's white people's fault that they kill each other?

Inequality is different than racism. Hipothetically, if it were the opposite, if the majority of favelados were white would it be racism against the white people?

As I said earlier, being polically correct is the standard nowadays and some people want to see racism in Brazil simply they believe it should be.
Dante's challenge
written by A brazilian, February 15, 2007
Take the person to the Iguatemi Mall, give the person some money and ask the person to buy something. Watch what happens. You can even use a video camera, if that person is treated just as a white person, I will take back everything I said.


I see it already, black people in the Iguatemi mall. Yes, the same mall you mentioned. And I have relatives that happen to look black, and some other day one of them were telling me about a camera he was seeing in some store in the Iguatemi mall.

There's no racism in Brazil. You were the one that called the rest of this country vicious, and that Sao Paulo was better than anyone else, and still want to call others racist? I think you are the one that is racist, it's in your mind. Usually people that have racist ideas feel bad about themselves, and the way they see to make it up is to recognize and show the "racism".

I have seen this script of "from racist to nice person" at least once (maybe more times and I don't remember). People that said all life real nasty things about other people, one day they realize how small they are and want to make it up to the people they mistreated.
...
written by Ric, February 15, 2007
How does one "happen" to look black, A.B.?
...
written by A brazilian, February 16, 2007
When someone have many ancestors but happen to look more like black.
...
written by boogie, February 16, 2007
This Wells is a USA guy trying to impose USA political correct COLONIALISM on Brasil> I lved in Campo Drande Rio State & Copacabana--I know Brasil==I also live in Caracas. This type of person [Wells} is nothing more then a colonialist--PLEAASE--IN THE NAME OF A PERSON WHO ADORES THE REAL SOUTH AMERICA--ACCEPT BY APOLOGY ON BEHALF OF THIS COLONIALIST WELLS--HE WILL RUIN BRASIL & SOUTH AMERICA.DO NOT ALLOW HIM TO TOUCH YOUR CULTURE---HIS KIND RUIN YOUR FUTURES--NEVER ALLOW WELLS & HIS CHOSEN ONES TO RUIN BRASIL AS THEY DO NORTH AMERICA-------PLEASE FORGIVE US FOR SENDING HIM TO YOU--EU TE AMO BRASIL----AMOR POR TODOS--MR BOOGIE
...
written by bo, February 16, 2007
State Song of Kentucky
written by Ric, 2007-02-15 18:19:56

The sun shines bright in the old Kentucky home,
`Tis summer, the darkies* are gay.....

"*darkies" changed in 1988 by legislative action to "people"



LMAO!! Damn.
...
written by Ric, February 16, 2007
Yes, the Kentucky thing raises more questions than it answers. Why did the lone African-American (perhaps lone African-North American would be less offensive to some) elected official object to the word "darkie" but "black" is okay?

And why didn´t they change the other terms that clearly indicated that Foster was talking about slaves, kids rolling around on the little cabin floor?

And since the word "gay" has taken on new meaning, why aren´t those people protesting the implications?

And since at Order of the Arrow Boy Scout Camps we used to throw our "faggots on the fire", why hasn´t that been properly investigated?

So many questions, so few answers......why is the word "pickaninny" opprobrious when it is just a corruption of the Portuguese word, "pequeninhos"? Must have come from Angola or Mozambique.

Just trying to learn. Why doesn´t Brazil´s law against racial slurs apply as well to verbal attacks on the Pomeranians in Espirito Santo? We´ve all heard that, maybe even last week.

To a brazilian
written by Dante, February 16, 2007
Prove it! Remember that you criticized Mr. Wells because he used his personal experience, I do not like that either. And now you are using it. Prove it! For the second time, no personal attacks please. Show me the video, since for you no data in the world is correct and you are the ultimate source of knowledge.
Boogie (As in "Get up and Boogie")
written by The American Historian, February 16, 2007
I don't know who you are dude (or dudette) but what is so great about the real South America for that region's blacks and Indians? And how have Wells and by implication other black Americans "ruined" the United States? Oh yes, all that South American poverty must be such a wonderful way of life; that must be why you see so many Americans--including black Americans rushing to migrate to that continent, right? And that must be why when one watches South American television programs you wonder if all the actors and actresses are Canadian. And that must be why quite a few Brazilians in recent years are planning to take very long vacations--vacations that could last the rest of their lives--to Europe and the U.S. You must be on something good buddy. We need some good comedy acts for the upcoming Academy Awards here in the U.S. so maybe I can sign you up?
...
written by A brazilian, February 16, 2007
And that must be why when one watches South American television programs you wonder if all the actors and actresses are Canadian


That's not true, you find people of all types on TV. But talking is cheap, you can talk whatever you want and that's it, not responsility over the quality of the information, nothing. Those inclined to believe in it, racists, will do and those who are not will not.
...
written by A brazilian, February 16, 2007
And that must be why quite a few Brazilians in recent years are planning to take very long vacations--vacations that could last the rest of their lives--to Europe and the U.S.


That's interesting, are you trying to make a relationship with clueless people that accept to clean toilets in the US for a living with racism? If so, how? Do you know any brazilian in the US in such situation?
...
written by A brazilian, February 16, 2007
Show me the video, since for you no data in the world is correct and you are the ultimate source of knowledge.


You want me to send you a video of this situation? Hahahahahahaha. And how would this serve as an evidence? Couldn't I just stage something with some friend of mine? The challenge you made is ridiculous because there's no way to "prove" it, you know that, that's why you made it. Now you are asking for "evidence"? Why don't you try to make a study by hiding a camera in a some black woman's purse and then let her go to a store, where she doesn't know the seller?

You made a claim without any evidence and now request an evidence from someone that says it's wrong? The one that must prove is the accuser, you are the accuser so you are the one that should come up with the evidence.
A Brazilian
written by The American Historian, February 17, 2007
Well A Brazilian, Mark Wells, myself and others have tried to save you from yourself but you will not listen. I forsee a Brazilian Hugo Chavez--that is a mixed-race Brazilian savior type in your future. But people like you will have left the majority of Brazilians with no choice. Then you, A Brazilian will move to the U.S. for one of those toilet-cleaning jobs you say you so despise and as I, the Historian pass you on the street I will have no choice but to say I told you so my pal. Now go out and have some fun because I know it is Samba season in Brazil.
...
written by Janessa, February 19, 2007
thats soo harsh to read i myself a black french canadian wow after all these years even brazil a country that has majority mix peoples still think like that way i guess humans in general are animals i hate the fact that its been so long i guess humans will never change smilies/sad.gif
Very good article again
written by Eddie from the Amazon jungle, February 19, 2007


Thanks to Mark for another very good article. I always believe that this Brazilian racial democracy is a fantasy, nothing like foreign eyes to see some truths,spoken by somebody with native, black and white genetic stock ancestry. Have a great carnival time.


Lost Colony of the Confederacy to Ric and American Historian
written by Dante, February 19, 2007
Sao Paulo was indeed similar to the American South, many Americans moved to Brazil and founded the colony of Americana, they did it because they saw Sao Paulo as a society very similar to their ideal plan for the United States. Brazil had a monarch descendent from the most powerful royal houses of Europe (Hapsburg from Austria and Bourbon from France), an elite that was descendant from Portuguese aristocrats; and the political power was in the hands of the plantation owners of Sao Paulo(slave owners) and not the industrial elite of Sao Paulo (Similar to the American North and against slavery).

Virginia Tech Library:
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1995/vp950418/04180268.htm
Janessa and Eddie
written by A brazilian, February 19, 2007
Janessa, please learn how to write properly. I can't understand what you mean.

Eddie, if you believe this is "well written" then I would suggest you to read more.
Para Eddie
written by A brazilian, February 19, 2007
You are just another gringo trash trying to spread racial hatred globally, please get together with your brothers from the KKK and continue playing "black vs. white" in there. The rest of the world doesn't need racist scum like yourself.
American Historian
written by A brazilian, February 19, 2007
You seem to be pretty ignorant about history and the current situation of Brazil by "foreseeing" the much you have in your little comment. The people that go to the US are losers, the type of loser that would clean toilets in Brazil too. Fortunately I was born intelligent, so I can have a very successful life right here in Brazil.
...
written by Ric, February 19, 2007
You just live to insult people, don´t you, Abe Razillion? It is not possible to hide feelings of inadequacy behind a false bravado. A very wise African-American named Father Divine once said, "It´s nice to be nice.". Try it.
...
written by e harmony, February 20, 2007
Nigeria is 140 million strong, rich in oil, in West Africa, overwhelmingly black, and has huge poverty problems. Black Americans should spend more of their pan-African time worrying about fixing black Nigerian problems and not the large mixed-race Brazil's problems (assuming they have any).

Yahoonews story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...TAS99vaA8F
...
written by e harmony, February 20, 2007
written by e harmony, 2007-02-20 09:54:56

Nigeria is 140 million strong, rich in oil, in West Africa, overwhelmingly black, and has huge poverty problems. Black Americans should spend more of their pan-African time worrying about fixing black Nigerian problems and not the large mixed-race Brazil's problems (assuming they have any).

Yahoonews story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...TAS99vaA8F



Excerpt from the article. Emphasis in bold mine.
"The politicians have stolen all the money. They have their children schooling overseas. I never went to school because I had to work in the farm with my father," said Ladan, 24, who sleeps outdoors and pays a fee to use someone's bucket to wash.

The U.N. Development Programme estimates nine out of 10 of Nigeria's 140 million people live on less than $2 per day.

Nigeria's National Bureau of Statistics uses a relative measure of poverty that sets the breadline as low as 51 cents a day. More than half the population don't make it above that.
...
written by e harmony, February 20, 2007
written by The American Historian, 2007-02-16 14:31:46

I don't know who you are dude (or dudette) but what is so great about the real South America for that region's blacks and Indians? And how have Wells and by implication other black Americans "ruined" the United States? Oh yes, all that South American poverty must be such a wonderful way of life; that must be why you see so many Americans--including black Americans rushing to migrate to that continent, right? And that must be why when one watches South American television programs you wonder if all the actors and actresses are Canadian. And that must be why quite a few Brazilians in recent years are planning to take very long vacations--vacations that could last the rest of their lives--to Europe and the U.S. You must be on something good buddy. We need some good comedy acts for the upcoming Academy Awards here in the U.S. so maybe I can sign you up?


Sao Paulo is an extremely racially cosmopolitan city - probably more so than Chicago. In fact I recall one Asian Canadian who visited both Sao Paulo and New York describing Sao Paulo as a "tropical New York City" with ethnic restaurants from all over the world. There is no reason to suspect Milan or Naples is more racially and ethnically diverse than Sao Paulo - other than in racist stereotypical minds on Americans (USA).
E harmony
written by Torontonian, February 20, 2007
Sao Paulo is not "tropical", look at the map.... hahaha Sao Paulo like New York and Chicago... you have no idea of what you are saying...
E Harmony
written by The American Historian, February 20, 2007
Now how do you know I don't spend any time criticizing Nigeria, other African countries or even my fellow black Americans? I am a regular poster at a web site called Booker Rising (though I will not tell you which name I post under) and everyday myself and others rip some of our fellow black Americans as well as overseas blacks pretty well. I have seen only one focus on criticism of Brazil at Booker Rising in two years. Much more criticism is directed at their fellow black Americans, those in Africa and at the general Muslim world. Currently, there are big debates regarding the candidacy of Barack Obama. Most black Americans are not focused on tearing down Brazil. And those of us who do criticize Brazil do so with the hope it will improve in a way that benefits all of its citizens, and not simply in the hypocritical "we are a racial democracy" way that is rampant in Latin America.

This is not rocket science guys. Countries that invest in all of their citizens outperform those that do not in today's world. This is true whether in Africa or Latin America. Show me a Brazil that permits discrimination against a big share of its population and I will show you a Brazil that always remains the country of the future.
...
written by e harmony, February 20, 2007
written by Torontonian, 2007-02-20 13:02:05

Sao Paulo is not "tropical", look at the map.... hahaha Sao Paulo like New York and Chicago... you have no idea of what you are saying...


Sao Paulo has been described as "the Chicago of Latin America" and Sao Paulo is bigger than both New York and Chicago. I've seen videos of Sao Paulo and have been in both Chicago and New York - yes Sao Paulo resembles both those cities. Actually I would take the liberty of saying that Sao Paulo can perhaps be thought of as a mix of Miami, New York, and Chicago all wrapped up into one. Not even New York or Chicago has as many helicopter taxi flights around their city, shuttling big wig executives around as mighty Sao Paulo does in her city of big shoulders.
...
written by Ric, February 20, 2007
The Tropics is defined as that area in which the sun is directly overhead at least one day during the year. The Tropic of Capricorn is south of Rio but north of São Paulo. Rio is tropical, SP is not; Tropic of Cancer is just north of Havana.

Recall that Asian Canadian, do you,? Good memory.
A Brazilian
written by The American Historian, February 20, 2007
I think the chance of a Hugo Chavez in your future is greater than you think A Brazilian. Just like in Ancient Rome, a Southern European descended elite refuses to reform and this led to the rise of a military man--Caesar--with the poor masses on his side. If civilian governments don't bring about reform and order the poor masses will eventually turn to the Army--and just like in Ancient Rome there is now the fear he (in Venezuela ) is becoming
a dictator. This could be your future too--especially if you continue to treat your brown and black masses like dirt.

I don't really exist A Brazilian. I am your alter ego--the logical common sense side of your brain that speaks to you so as to cancel out the other voice you hear known as A Brazilian--the narrowminded, opinionated, sentimental voice that is constantly in denial about the reality of life in your country. Go ahead, hurl insults at me, call me names--it is simply the battle going on in your own head. But remember, there really is no "American Historian."
Yet I will only go away when you become enlightened.
...
written by Ric, February 20, 2007
I have often wondered if scenario in The American Historian´s first paragraph might not just be what is in the works. It´s possible. Other possibilities exist also, naturally.
American Historian
written by A brazilian, February 20, 2007
This sequence of idiotic statements is simply too much. So you make such very deterministic fortune telling based on what? On very vague "parallels" without any regard to surrounding circumstances and contexts? Do you really think whatever happened in Rome is appliable now? Only in the mind of a typical ignorant american Venezuela and Brazil are the same thing, and you still call yourself a "historian".

These were the illogical historical and incomplete "facts" you used to build this stupidity, but, not happy with it, you "crown" this waste of my time with the needed racialized american explanation "if you continue to treat your brown and black masses like dirt". First, nobody is treated like dirt. Second, mixed aren't blacks.


...
written by A brazilian, February 20, 2007
The Tropics is defined as that area in which the sun is directly overhead at least one day during the year. The Tropic of Capricorn is south of Rio but north of São Paulo. Rio is tropical, SP is not; Tropic of Cancer is just north of Havana.


Technicalities, but what he said is still valid. The distance from São Paulo from the tropic is not enough to make the weather to be completely different from the rest of the country, so it is still a "tropical New York".

You are the guy that say "...brazilians that go to the West..." when referring to immigration, as if Brazil were in Asia, and call the United States "America" ignoring the rest of the continent. You are the last person on Earth that should point out geographical facts.
Temperate Climate
written by Dante, February 20, 2007
Sao Paulo has a Temperate Climate (Similar to Portugal and Spain) for those that have no knowledge of geography, The American Historian, Torontonian and Ric are correct as usual. Yes A brazilian, lines do exist. You seem to ignore all lines, racial lines, geographical lines, political lines; actually you want to fabricate your own reality. "Technicalities" are the difference between good and bad scholarship. Learn....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...perate.svg
American Historian
written by Dante, February 20, 2007

Just like in Ancient Rome, a Southern European descended elite refuses to reform and this led to the rise of a military man--Caesar--with the poor masses on his side. If civilian governments don't bring about reform and order the poor masses will eventually turn to the Army--and just like in Ancient Rome there is now the fear he (in Venezuela ) is becoming
a dictator. This could be your future too--especially if you continue to treat your brown and black masses like dirt.


I agree 100% American Historian
...
written by e harmony, February 20, 2007
written by Ric, 2007-02-20 15:14:34

The Tropics is defined as that area in which the sun is directly overhead at least one day during the year. The Tropic of Capricorn is south of Rio but north of São Paulo. Rio is tropical, SP is not; Tropic of Cancer is just north of Havana.

Recall that Asian Canadian, do you,? Good memory.


Be that as it may, in common man vernacular Sao Paulo (or even Miami) can be spoken of as "tropical."
Dante
written by A brazilian, February 20, 2007
This is hilarious! I thought the link you provided would be some temperature data gathered through many years from the locations you cited, but no, it's a simple world map.

According to you Sao Paulo is as temperate as Berlin, just by looking at the lines in the map. Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahah. São Paulo has no snow, and the temperature never goes below 0º C! Canada is in the temperate zone as well! Hahahahahahahahahaha

I repeat what I said, São Paulo is not far enough from the tropic line to make the weather and temperature all that different, being so it's not incorrect to call it "tropical New York". This weekend it was 35ºC there by the way.
Dante II
written by A brazilian, February 20, 2007
I agree 100% American Historian


Now, that's clueless.
A Brazilian
written by The American Historian, February 20, 2007
Oh man dude, you refuse to accept the lesson that history repeats itself--and this even applies to Brazil. And what do you mean blacks and mixed are not the same? I thought you said Brazilians are all of the same race? You are all over the place my man, that is assuming you are the same A Brazilian and not one of many.
...
written by Thaddeus Blanchette, February 20, 2007
A recent Veja poll clocks in 87% of respondents agreeing with the statement that Brazil is a very racist country.

How, exactly, is this "hiding" racism Mark Wells?

The problem here, as others have already mentioned, isn't that we don't know that we have a problem, it's that we don't seem to be willing or able to do much about it.
...
written by Ric, February 20, 2007
What I see when in the Paraiba Valley area of SP is flora and fauna similar to San Diego. The climate and everything. Much different from the NE or Amazon or the far west of Brazil. Semi-tropical.

As for racism, Brazil is what it is. Who cares what anyone says. Surely those who are most likely to be discriminated against should have the final word on that, not academics or ibope people.
Racism is in the US, not here
written by A brazilian, February 20, 2007
A recent Veja poll clocks in 87% of respondents agreeing with the statement that Brazil is a very racist country.


Brazilians don't know what racism is. If they knew anything about all the racial myths and racial culture of the US and Europe, of really taking seriously the Aryan tale plus lots of other pseudo-scientific ways of exclusion (Italians aren't white because are mixed, portuguese aren't white, spanish aren't white, etc) they wouldn't say so.

The first time I saw racism with my own eyes was the first time I went to the US, it's really shocking.
The racist American Historian
written by A brazilian, February 20, 2007
what do you mean blacks and mixed are not the same? I thought you said Brazilians are all of the same race?


Don't try to twist what I said, we are all brazilians. But you seem to single out the "blacks and browns" as if they were one thing in opposition to the rest of the country and that's not true. There's no such groups and they are not the same thing, as in every person is a different person and cannot be treated like cattle.
Farms? In Berkeley?
written by Ric, February 20, 2007
While it´s true that people shouldn´t be treated like cattle, Abe, you do respond well to prodding.
...
written by bo, February 21, 2007
...
written by Thaddeus Blanchette, 2007-02-20 19:16:08

The problem here, as others have already mentioned, isn't that we don't know that we have a problem, it's that we don't seem to be willing or able to do much about it.


Racism is in the US, not here
written by A brazilian, 2007-02-20 21:08:22



And there ya have it Thaddeus. BTW, 60 kidnappings for a city in a year is hardly newsworthy, eh snizzle? You must live in Sao Paulo capitol, lol, completely desensitized to it already eh?? Or just have never been to a civilized place before?:
...
written by bo, February 21, 2007
...
written by e harmony, 2007-02-20 15:06:44

written by Torontonian, 2007-02-20 13:02:05

Sao Paulo is not "tropical", look at the map.... hahaha Sao Paulo like New York and Chicago... you have no idea of what you are saying...



Sao Paulo has been described as "the Chicago of Latin America" and Sao Paulo is bigger than both New York and Chicago. I've seen videos of Sao Paulo and have been in both Chicago and New York - yes Sao Paulo resembles both those cities. Actually I would take the liberty of saying that Sao Paulo can perhaps be thought of as a mix of Miami, New York, and Chicago all wrapped up into one. Not even New York or Chicago has as many helicopter taxi flights around their city, shuttling big wig executives around as mighty Sao Paulo does in her city of big shoulders.



LMAO!!

I LOVE to hear e harmony talk about brasil, as if he actually has been here. Confirms his delusional state.

Of course they take more helicopters E!! That way they're assured of not getting car-jacked or kidnapped!
...
writte