Brazzil

Without a United States or a South Africa to point to as the "real" racists, and the rest of world wondering why the society was stratified in such a way, to whom would the Brazilian point in order to deflect attention away from their own racial reality?

Without it the US would be what Brazil is today. A bunch of people living together without any racial segregation (black neighborhoods, white neighborhoods, etc). The would be no reason to point fingers since we would be equal.

This is probably one of you worst articles, the others seemed to have more content, this one seems to just sensationalistic. The image used for it of Xuxa, she is a blonde TV hostess, and as I see it she is just as brazilian as anybody else. I think this is one american racism "feature", they believe "blondeness" are their exclusivity. So seeing somebody like Xuxa being successful in Brazil can only be the indication of "denial" and "racism" because brazilians are all brown or black, aren't they?

First, nobody is taught to adore anything. People will always find things about their bodies they don't like, be it black or not. Yes, the type of hair from blacks are not the most popular one, but a lot of other features from all races. White women with a flat body aren't also the most popular ones. People without any tan, as white as the background of this webpage, are also not the most popular ones. Do I need to mention fat people? All those things are silly but they happen.

This is only a matter of self-esteem from the individual, not anything that's forced upon them. What prevents people from feeling good about themselves even if they are fat, not tanned, flat assed or with black type of hair? The point is that there's no"white men conspiracy" to make blacks to feel bad about themselves. The same way there's no "skinny people conspiracy" to make fatties to feel bad about themselves or "big assed women conspiracy" to make the flat ones to feel bad.

Not sure how making blacks look like poor and oppressed people will help. Wouldn't it hurt their self-steem more than anything else? I have met a few that were very sure of themselves and very capable, I am sure they wouldn't like such characterization. The very quantity of mixing along is evidence that blacks are not considered less than humans.

Your argumentation of "seeking a lighter skinned partner" is illogical. Doesn't the will of the other person count? Why do people accept "darker skinned" partners, if everyone is racist as you say? Wouldn't that be bad for themselves, and lower the "level or privilege" of their offspring?

The very fact you think people are different based on race is racism. Just like have done extensively here.

Please consider letting this be the last post against this author's articles. Maybe then they'll stop publishing such garbage here.

We have thousands of serious problems racism not being one of them and one of the very few things we can be proud of compared to the rest of the world.

just don't accept racism is not an issue in Brazil?

I don,t believe you Karl Marx !

Mark Wells must be some white guy in the USA...trying to spread the diease of hate in this country through minds of Brazilians.
Move along a path to be something more than the small minded individuals in the USA.

Just when we thought Wells had retired he comes back like Ali from the rope-a-dope and flattens the competition. Biff, bam boom pow.....Good work Mark. You are to Brazil what Gunnar Myrdal was to the U.S. in the 1940's. Enough Racial Democracy pablum. For years Xuxa refused to even have black kids on her show. More black kids are probably on television in Australia, and they have about six black people in the whole country. Probably, more black kids show up on television on the planet Pluto.....

Look at all of those sources A Brazilian. I got dizzy just reading all of them.

When he was young he was proud to be a little less black than his peers. But he came to hate that unknown ancestor that gave the reddish tint to his hair.

Obama should have had experts vet those two books he wrote. If he gets nominated, just wait for the opposition to latch on to the fact that Malcolm X was one of his Role Models.

An interesting article. A liberal education means among other things that one can read and appreciate without knowing enough about the subject to form an opinion on the merits.

Yes, citations to the left of me; citations to the right of me. Citations on my roof, citations and sources on my floor. A Brazilian is down for the count. One, two, three.....it's all over folks and the winner is......Mark Wells!

Dinah Shore once sued her family for not telling her about the ancestor who was black.

First: I heart XUXA! Sou uma baixinha. lol

Second: Look at Xuxa baby daddy: http://www.ovadiasaadia.com.br...tima_6.jpg
If racism was big, why people in Brazil all marry people of different color as they are? Why people are so mixed?

That's all what I have to say about that! LOL

Now that's funny ROFLMAO.

XUXA dated Pele. that's how she hates black people LOL

"Toda mullher tem que um pretinho basico"

sorry:

"Toda mullher tem que ter um pretino basico"

Was not XuXa married to pela for a very long time and has 2 kids by him ??? what is his color ???

do not most brasilians see gringoes as a place to get money , a form of racisum !

why is it only white people can be taken to court for racism ??

are jews a race or religon ???

when any people talk about racism it is first the USA , then South africa and england , why never gremany ??? france ??? russia ???
all have worse civil rights than the USA

and look at canada how they the french , brasilians treat there own indians ,
it is a problum that is set in the human genome and will have to be cut out by a knife or a ton of school

I don't know why Xuxa didn't marry Pele or why she didn't have kids with him but I suspect it was because she was still not ready for all that. She didn't marry Luciano either. The point here is that Luciano is not white either and Brazilians are mixed. If racism was such of a big thing people will not marry people of different color since racist don't want offspring to be biracial or multiracial.

Mr. Wells, your article is poisonous, unintelligent, prejudiced and completely out of touch with the racial reality in Brazil. I am very happy that the only channel you have found to spread your message of hatred is in a relatively unimportant avenue as Brazzil.com. It seems apparent that the segment of the Brazilian society most prone to be influenced by your Black Mein Kempf (and the other garbage you have posted) is not going to be reading it.
The reason why Brazilian blacks seem to be content and unaffected by their markedly inferior position in Brazilian society is complacency. It must be pointed out, however, that in Brazil this is a color blind trait, being historically embraced by the populace in general. Brazilians (whites and blacks alike) are complacent and docile even in the most adverse of situations. You don’t have to go back far in History to acknowledge that only the most complacent of people would endure government approved appropriation of savings, hardcore monetary inflation, and widespread and senseless killing and torture of the ones contrary to the system, just to mention a few. This complacency has been incorporated in the Brazilian mentality as something positive and desirable (seen in expressions such as “em soul ad past”). This unwillingness to get involved seems to have been solidified through a series of utter and complete failures of revolutionary movements (Candors and Revolução de 32) and is responsible for the racial makeup you see in Brazil today.
It has been only in the past few years, as the fourth state became more mature and less influenced by a few powerful famlies that the Brazilian mentality has been changing. Probably the watershed moment for this change was the impeachment of Fernando Collor a couple years ago. Today, the Brazilian society seems to be much more aware of its rights, although still plagued by a government that is endemically inefficient and corrupt. Since blacks have been historically at the bottom of the social ladder, they will probably arrive to the road to self political awareness later. But the same is also true of millions of white who live in poverty and are barred from access to higher education and better jobs. Self respect, the demand for a better life, the understanding of undeniable rights always comes with political enlightenment. Hopefully, Brazilian blacks will be able to fight the chains of complacency without having to take the same steps of their American brothers. The truth of the matter Mr. Wells is that both blacks and whites in America display racism and any changes that have occurred have been vertically “forced” by the Supreme Court and are not a product of a change of heart. It might take longer for black Brazilians to reach their social Promised Land, but I am sure that they won’t get there in buses protected by the National Guard nor will they pay the price to get there with the blood of their slain leaders.
Mr. Wells, when you try to delineate a racial analysis of Brazil using a historical footprint of the American racial dynamics, you prove to be utterly and completely handicapped for the task. It proves that one does not have to preach prejudice in a rap song to shout to the world that the hatred inside you has corroded your ability to think and see the world as it really is.

correction
*** This complacency has been incorporated in the Brazilian mentality as something positive and desirable (seen in expressions such as “EU SOU DA PAZ”).

Blacks are the equivellent of the Mexican's of Brazil, there can be no denial, and while Well's article is over the top, the truth can be seem in day to day life in Brazil. Sure there are the execptions, some educated back professionals, may be a politican or two and sports figures, in the US Mexicans have a few as well.

But who in Brazil do you see riding the municipal trask trucks, what color are the empgragadas with their white kids in the park? How about the delivery people on their bikes, the homeless in the streets. Don't tell me how color blind Brazil is, the whites of Zona Sul and other large cities will walk across the street to keep from passing a group of blacks, especially at night.

Blacks have their own beaches, the only blacks you see on the white beaches are serving white people. Even the marginal jobs like a waiter is taken by a white person, how often are you served in a cafe or bar by a black. And while I know everyone will deny it, most crime and Brazilians in prison are black. Talk about racal profiling...have you ever seen a police blitz, all backs are pulled over and checked while whites are waived through...sorry, but your color blind utopia is pure fiction. I'm not saying the US is any better, but your problems are the same or worse.

Ana P. I am brazilian and I am not mixed how do you explain that??? Are you from Bahia?? Brazil is a racist country and idiots like you do not see it... grow up...

maybe you are not mixed but about 80% of Brazilians are. I am and my whole family of about 500 people. I am not from Bahia. Eu sou do interior do Rio de Janeiro.
Brazil is not a racist country but does have racist people like anywhere else in the world but we do accept people from all over the world and accept them as "Brazilians". Black, white, yellow it doesn't matter you are Brazilian.

You are from the interior of RJ, thus your perspective is slanted, I will go out on a limb here and say you are from a small town or Bario and most of the people you grew up with were mixed family and friends. But you must look at Brazil's racist society with intellect. The power lies with the elite white, and while they may keep you happy and blind with Carnaval or Bolsa Escola, cheap carne and cerveza, many people move from the small cities in the interior to become the servants of the whites, unless of course you are from Nova Friburgo or Petroplolis, then you serve the rich white Cariocas there.

I am in Ribero Preto and Sao Paulo on business frequently, I do not see blacks or "dark Brazilians" in the business hotels nor the places were the rich and powerful conduct their business. If I do they are security or servants. Try to find a dark Brazilian in a helicopter, important business or government meeting or even a dark pilot (although I was inpressed on my last trip that my pilot was a woman!).

Also, you come from a state with some power, in the North, blacks can not read or write, in the South, were the ancestors of German Nazis reside it is even worse, no matter what the statistics. You are correct, you can be succesful if you are mixed and light skinned, but are doomed to mediocroty if you are mixed and preta.

I am by no means saying that there is NO racisim in the West, in fact, it is pathetic it still exists, mostly in the South and Midwest, but we DO have rich and powerful blacks other than sports. Colin Powell, Condy Rice, amd Page no matter what your politics, hold or held powerful positions on the world stage, Opra Winfrey (why not compare here to ZuZu) is the richest women in the US, we have a black candidate for preseident who is getting the support of the rich and famous. What has Brazil got, Gil & Pele? I do believe that Brazil is making strides, I believe this is because of the new left of center government, it is a good thing. But a dark person there...and a dark person here have distinctly different opportunities.

I am from the interior but I live in the USA for 4 years and have travelled to other countries as well. I am from Macae-RJ which is a well known for the petroleo industry.
I am considered white in Brazil and I come from a poor family and worked as an empregada. It doesn't matter if you black or white and you are poor. Brazil discriminate social class way more than color also fat people. In the USA, is wrong to no hire a person because they are fat in Brazil they won't hire store salesperson, waitresses, secretary, etc if they are fat.
Racism will always exist in Brazil by very rich pure Europeans but hardly by someone that has mixed blood(80% of the population) but in the USA it is large percentage of people that racist not only against blacks but anything but white.
I have asians and middle eastern friends and they suffered just as much with racism in the USA.

You are just repeating the same mantra from Mark Wells. There's no parallel between the brazilian and american societies in what concerns race, you will be well treated if you are well dressed and look educated, or if you are someone famous. Definetely this is not a problem.

'The society is much more mixed than the american and "mexicanos" are . I went there and saw with my own eyes, mexicans and americans are segregated. There's absolutely no integration between them, and lunatics from both sides seem to want to be so.

The american society is so sick that you have "ghettos" for the mind, such as stereotypes people use to label themselves with like "blacks", "hispanics" or "latino", "american" (obligatorily blonde), "italian", "irish" (?). This is simply ridiculous. To claim that Brazil is even close is to show an incredible level of cluelessness.

And, yes, I am mixed and my family have people of all kinds of looks. There's no problem as you describe. There's no "evil conspiracy" for keeping anyone in misery, I have met people of all looks and they were just friends, equals, nobody would be talking if a blonde would be dating a black looking guy, as I have witnessed several times.

And for those that claim that blacks are good only for "empregadas" and all whites are riches, well, you should learn a little about this society before spreading this non-sense.

Ana P. it is strange that you would not call XUXA's boyfriend white. He would be considered white by most Brazilians. He is the same color as people from Italy and Portugal. I think you have been living in the US for too long, and now think like they do, you are using the same qualifiers for whiteness that they are. Also you need to stop using s**t like" baby's mama" it sounds really ghetto no matter what color you are.

Ana P. it is strange that you would not call XUXA's boyfriend white.

I understood it as a way for americans to be able to grasp the idea. Otherwise they can't.

The article scares most brazilians for an obvious reason. Our segregacionist cultural core is deep enough in our hearts to make us blind to the terrorism we commit for centuries.
I don´t agree with Wells in everything he says cause Brazil is not a place for such generalisms, but most of what he wrote has some big truth on it, a truth that embarasses us so much, we can´t even admit it.
I live in Rio de janeiro, a city that worships blondeness more then most others in the country. Although some model agencies have a significant number of black people on their profiles, I say the big ones are centuries away from leaving their pro-white-blonde preferences for behind.Blacks on their ranks only serve for more specific roles or for justifying a pseudo non-racist mentality.
The idea most non-blacks have about brazilian supposed multi-racial culture is a country that is 60% white, 30% "pardo" and 10 % black. This is the image Brazil feels confortable to accept and worship as its own, at least in cities like Rio and São Paulo. On TV, this 10% of blackness is formed by the ones called "exceptions", a group of fortunate people who can enter the nobilty to show everybody else that, besides the odds, it´s always possible to "get there". The problem is: these blacks anchieved their new adquired priviledges under the white men´s stabilishment, and this stabilishment doesn´t want blackness to surpass 10%, the same 10% you see when you look at any TV show´s dancers cast, and many other stuff around. This pro-white view of our multiracial democracy hits most aspects of our lives, because a big part of Brazil remains embarassed with its non-eurpean heritage.
Surelly, racism doens´t justify all social problems related to our black population. Black people who anchieve good education can surpass many racial obstacles of society when looking for certain jobs for example. I have a group of black friends who made the same school I made, and they´re all well employed today, some with college degree in hands, despite all unconscious and conscious racism they still have to suffer daily.
So, my points are:

1 - We can make all quota and affirmnative action possible, and not very much will be anchieved if we don´t make a revolution on our public education on the basic levels. Or stabilishing a percetnage of poors for every particular school to study for free

2 - We should stop imediatly to point fingers to USA and South Africa, enhancing their racist flaws to hide ours from them and, specially, from ourselves. These countries might have racial related problems we are not used to experience, but they also made wonderfull social advances we are still centuries away from. Sociologist Darcy Ribeiro once said Brazil is the United States if the south had won the war. It´s impossible to denial there´s a lot of truth in such statement

3 - Let´s not demeanor affirmative actions like Netinho´s black TV channel and Raça Brasil magazine. These iniciatives do not intend to create any kind of forced separatism or racial hatred. All they look for is to create an opportubity for black people to get away from the 10%, search for better space in media and society, and, mostly, change the unfair hierarchichal system that still exists in our twisted idea of multiracist Brazil. They work to generate more black references so that kids can look upon and have hopes to reach the higher levels of society without appealing to crime.

Thank you Mr. Luiz Mendes Jr., brilliant post..... I agree with you. It is nice to read reasonable people here...

I think the goodwill of some in Brazil to overcome the great social disparities are not the same thing as Mark Wells says. His intention is not of helping fixing anything, but to promote racism in the american style, i.e., a kind of segregation of the society in "races". There are many problems in Brazil and those must but fixed, with emphasis in education, but we don't have a racist society in here.

I don't undestand what you say about "being embarassed about non-european heritage". Do you really think so? And all those forms of expressions in the brazilian culture such as Carnaval, are those genuinelly european? Do you think that the percentage of blacks is kept "artificially" low because of someone's agenda, a conspiracy to keep blacks in misery?

If we saw the african culture completely segregated from the brazilian, or any attempt of expressing to be condomned, that could be. But exactly the opposite happens. And not as some sort of "ghetto" thing, but mainstream.

Stop trying to be politically correct and use your intelligence. The things describe by Mark Wells simply doesn't exist.

That "black candidate" is mulatto, and has one white parent and one black parent, essentially it is the U.S. reflecting Brazil's adoration for the mulatto. Brazil already has had a dark black woman I believe as either mayor of the city of Rio or the governor of the state of Rio - I can't remember which though. Anyways, Brazil currently has what would be considered non-white as President by U.S. standards - he's Lula. I say that because if Lula was in the U.S. cutting lawns for money, he would not be considered "white."

Just like Chile already has a woman President whilst the U.S. asks the question, "is the country ready for a woman President." No matter the answer to that question Chile and a number of countries have already proven more ready for it than the U.S. Just as Sao Paulo proved ready for a female mayor before New York City. The United States may just now begin to have an enticing interest in mulatto and brown men in suits - Obama - but Brazil has appreciated such men for quite some time.

But for Americans Luciano would be Black, crazy isn't it? In Brazil he is white but not in the USA. An American only would consider someone like Xuxa as a white person but not Luciano and would say that a person that has Luciano color are discrimanate by white colored people like Xuxa in Brazil and by television on which in their opinions only show white-colored people(their white perception is someone that has same color and feature like Xuxa) but all that is not true since Luciano is on TV and many others the same color or even darker.
What's wrong with baby's daddy expression? He is the daddy of her baby. I am not ghetto at all, I don't talk ghetto never did. I have hard time understanding ghetto people in the USA LOL.

The blondeness obessession has nothing to do with being white but the hair color itself. That's a easy solution: a bottle of bleach!

Some examples of actresses/singers/models that are big in Brazil and on TV:
Aline Moraes

Juliana Paes

Luciana Gimenez

Daniela Cicarelli

Wanessa camargo


And for the end Scheila Carvalho considered the most sexy women in the Brazil for many years now
http://scheilacarvalho.zip.net/

Regardless of Well´s intentions, a good part of what he says should be taken into consideration, or at least that´s my oppinion. I desagree with you when you say brazil is not a racist country. You can say our racism comes on a different way when compared to the kind of racism we see in the first world for example. Here, we have cultural mixing and a great level of acceptance of our non european heritage in fields such as music, arts and religion, but this apparently democratic fusion does not seem to be the same when we point our focus to personal relashionships, social relashionships and the acceptance that each fenotipe and heritage have on the colective imaginarium. Beneath the cultural fusion, there are biotipical and social hierarchies that work on many social levels (of course these vary from place to place in Brazil and the main focuses on my precious comment were Rio, which is the city I live). You see a show like "Caldeirão do Huck", for example. There´s a broad space for blacks singers to make appearences, for black music to be put in, for black funk from the favelas, for blacks to participate on the popular atractions of the show like "Agora ou nunca" or "Super Chance", but this access seems to get narrow when we realize that just one of the dancers can be called black (and she was put in for clear polictical reasons) as almost none of the models that are put on the front seats are black. So we can come to the conclusion that segregation appears for certain roles and spots, so blacks can simbolize certain features but not others. And blacks can appear when it´s pollitically profitable ("We are giving a space to the favela funk to show up", "We are putting the "populars" on our prize contests"). Blacks can be here and there, but for there and over there, cause certain structures need to be maintained. We see places with black music and black atmosphere for middle class non-blacks who love to chant their pseudo non-racist beliefs while letting most blacks "outside" (using a high price as the perfect excuse) and the politically correct 10% inside. How about brazilian version of the Big Brother, my friend? Why so few blacks and always counted? Why so many blonde women for every ediction? Have you recalled black participation on the history of telenovelas? Have you heard about why netinho decided to make a black channel? He had a show on Rede Record Network, with more black people then most usual shows and the producers wanted more violence, more "black things". Netinho wanted to avoid that, putting more romance and love story. In the end, the produced just came to him and sayd. "Look dude, Brazilians don´t want to seat 15 minutes in front of the TV to see black people kissing each other." Antropologist Roberto da Matta says americans accept their people equal but always separated. Here, it´s more like "Together, but different". So, the "everybody´s culture" does not attend everybody equally all the time. In Brazil, blacks have a lot more freedom for certain roles and expectations then to others. It´s like some american whites watching black stand up comedians and expecting then to do racial jokes all the time. If the comedian decides to quit the racial jokes, then, these whites will prefer to see a white comedian doing stand up, cause they expect the black one to be racial, as they expect third world movies to show people suffering and african films to have wars and starvation.
I believe you follow Ali Kamel´s view on racism. He wrote a nice book entitled "We are not racist". I admire Kamel´s work on research and I believe his book has lots of things to be taken into consideration, but I think he lets the colonial racism pass by a lot, focusing his attention on the social side of the problem. The thing is that it´s very difficult to realize brazilian racism against blacks when you are not black (and sometimes even being black), although it does not mean you are not affected from it. The friendly relashioship atmosphere of brazilian racial and social interaction hide sinister hierarchical unconsious laws that most people feel impelled to follow without knowing why, as if they were absolutelly natural and unscapable.
Of course that racism in Brazil does not always follow the same laws and patterns. It seems to be a lot lower in Music and movie industry for example, since this last one is always looking for that Brazil the mainstream brazil doesn´t like to see.

I´m not trying to be pollitically correct, but USING MY INTELIGENCE to try to help breaking the cliche´s speach that we hear from most mouths in Brazil. A speeach that seems to manifest more conformism than a will to really understand what goes on in this country and change it.

I´m not trying to be the owner of the truth also. And I aprecciate, although desagreeing many times, opinions such as Kamel´s when he tries to minimize racism and emphazise classism in brazilian relashioships.

ps: when I mean"precious comment were Rio", read "previous comment"

Nobody said that Brazil racism doesn't exist but Brazil is not a racist country simple because the majority of the people there are mixed and the minority which consists in pure European(Mostly NAZIs) are rich and very racist against blacks and poor people of any color.
They have black channels in the USA as well just for blacks and spanish channels just for hispanics and black neighborhoods and hispanics neighborhoods only. That doesnt exist in Brazil. Even Asian only exists in the USA. Wonder why?
Racism in the USA is deeper than just blacks. Whites don't like anyone that is not white. Blacks don't like white or mixed people. Hispanics don't blacks or whites. Blacks hate the asians. Asians hate the whites. And this viscious cycle just goes on and on...
Also it doesn't matter if you are born in the USA no one will ever call you American if you are not white. But try to paint Brazil as a racist country is far from the true. You are Brazilian no matter what even naturalized Brazilians are call just that "Brasileiro".

You make some interesting points above regarding the overall Brazilian character, though I think your review of Wells is harsh. Also, it is a bit much to state all change in the USA was "forced" by the U.S. Supreme Court. The Supreme Court cases dealt primarily with ending government sponsored segregation and racism, i.e., in the public schools for example. It was only though the passage of laws by the U.S. Congress and state legislatures that all other types of legal discrimination in the private sector ended--such as in jobs and housing.

And believe me, the Congress would never have passed these laws if most white Americans had not supported their passage. And the white Southern Senators knew there was majority support for better Civil Rights laws, otherwise they would not have used the filibuster to prevent such laws from coming to a vote. So yes, there was a change of heart by many white Americans--though not by all of course.

If you want to read a good recounting of the politics of civil rights in the 1950's, read Robert Caro's "Master of the Senate" which deals with the Senate career of future U.S. President Lyndon Johnson. It is long, but a good read nonetheless.

The ladies above are all very pretty. In the USA in this month's Sport's Illustrated Swimsuit Issue, a very beautiful Afro-Brazilian girl named Ana Paula Araujo is featured
(the edition with Beyonce Knowles on the cover).

http://www.projectrace.com/fro...032602.php

The funniest thing is that most "racially-conscious" Black Americans who've made it up the social ladder all marry lighter skinned black women...

- When one member writes : racism is not an issue in Brazil, the answer is not surprising if he is white but why dont you ask
Blacks Brazilians if racism is not an issue ??????? Was it Whites or Blacks American who said there was racism is USA ???? I did not know that Martin Luther King....was white !!!!! Was he ? Hmmmmmm...let me think again !!!!!!

- And with the beautiful ladies in the above photos, sorry but it looks like the member who published them should wear glasses, since NOT ONE OF THEM IS BLACK SKINNED OR BLACK DESCENDANT !!!!!!!

Some are whites....some are whites...but sun tanned !

I know how stupid I am, but I did not know that being sun tanned makes anyone Black or Black descendants !!!!

Or could I be myself or anyone, Black or Black descendants, when we go to the sun and be whites only for some seasons ?????


Hmmmmm....let me think !!!!!! Strange....something doesnt add !!!!!

Simple demonstration of how idiots some brazilians are in saying there is no racism in Brazil !!!!!!!!!

To Luiz
written by Ana P., 2007-02-26 04:25:56

Nobody said that Brazil racism doesn't.....

Ana, you're not reading AND comprehending!! Our friend, "A brazilian", has stated time after time, that racism does NOT exist in brazil!

Kinda like how you like to try and say that there are no "child molestors" in brazil, that's just a "U.S. thing".

Ana P.


Also it doesn't matter if you are born in the USA no one will ever call you American if you are not white.

wow, an entire 4 years in the U.S. and she speaks on behalf of more than 300,000,000!

Ana..... lol, oh, forget it.

to ch.c:
"When one member writes : racism is not an issue in Brazil,"
That would be me. It's not, but it's soon to be because of all those PC people with their quotas and other stupid ideas. I'm afraid in a few year we will have somethig we never had and that's racial hate.

to American Historian:
"More black kids are probably on television Australia"
Not there aren't. When was the last time you watched Brazilian TV?
"television on the planet Pluto..... "
Pluto is not a planet anymore but that's is the smallest mistake in your post.

to AVY:
"Blacks have their own beaches"
No they haven't. Could you please tell us where they are?
"Talk about racal profiling...have you ever seen a police blitz, all backs are pulled over and checked while whites are waived through.."
When I was young and used to go out a lot, I was stopped a few times by the police, now I'm not. Does this indicate an age prejudice? Coherence please.

to LVB:
"Brazil is a racist country"
No it's not
"and idiots like you do not see it"
That's would be me again. Don't you think it's idiotic to state something like Brazil is a racist country and not proving it? Or at least give a few arguments backing it?

to Savy:
"What has Brazil got, Gil & Pele? "
And Ronaldinho, Romario, Carlos Alberto, Joao do Pulo, Ademar Ferreira da Silva, Grande Otelo, Milton Goncalves, Machado de Assis, Elza Soares, Benedita da Silva, Celso Pitta, Djalma Santos, Milton Nascimento

to e harmony:
"Brazil already has had a dark black woman I believe as either mayor of the city of Rio or the governor of the state of Rio - I "
Governor of the state of Rio, the second most important. And we also had Celso Pitta, mayor of the most important city, Sao Paulo and a governor of Rio Grande do Sul which is in the region where according to some morons here everybody is nazi. But don't expect facts from them they have slogans, prejudices and tha't all.

has had a name change!! Welcome "Paulista"!

I agree with the poster who says that it is easy for white Brazilians to claim there is no racisim in Brazil, it's just plain silly. Just as white people in the US claim that things are much better, but they are not consistently victims as people of color are of racila profiling . If you are not a person of color it is difficult to speak to racism with any sense of reality, this includes Wells the author. How can a white European author write and article on something he has never expereince, it is only an opinion, not something written from experience. Even so, the US fought a civil war that was partially motivated to end salvary and civil rights legislation in the 60's was passed by an all white congress and signed by a white Presiedent. So while there is an ugly racist past in the US, as there is one in Germany's past, or Turkeys past, we have taken efforts of right a wrong. Why should I be blamed for something my great great grandfather was part of 100 years ago??

Ana and the Brazilian claim there "is little racism in Brazil", they both come from different back grounds. Ana has fallen victim to the Brazilians elite efforts to convince her that there is no racism, but she has worked as an empragada in Macae (for an American family). Interesting enough, Macae could be an American city there are so many gringos there, she obviously hit the lotto by finding a gringo to marry while she lived there. It's like the movie Officer & a Gentlemen, Macae is full of Braziian women trying to hook up with gringos even if they have wifes at home during an expat tour. Brazil keeps Brazilian of color in their places by Carnaval, cheap carne and cerveza. As long as they are all dancing, have full bellys and drunk they will all be happy (oh, I forgot to throw soccer in) no revolutions, or even powerful organizing, the Brazilian Governement with the help of private industry are experts at fooling the masses of poor and dark.

Ana also seems to claim to be an expert on American culture after living in the US for four years. Perhaps what she is expereincing in the US is not racism, but failure to advance becuase of a poor education, difficulty with the language, or more likley just a strong effort not to assimilate but to maintain her culture, a problem many immigrants have. While no one should ever give up their culture, to be always critical of there new home does not win new friends and only further isolates immigrants. I have been the only Gringo in large groups of Brazilians and in almost every instance the conversation turns to how miserable they all are in the US, it's simple...go back. What? You can't go back? Becuase there is nothing in Brazil for you. Give up your nice apartment, car, credit cards, schools...things you had no chance at in Brazil. In Ana's case go ack to cleaning other peoples houses and rasing their kids? By the why, why would you husband, who is almost certainly an educated member of the petro chemical industry marry and bring home an uneducated maid? I am sure you are a beautiful, submisive women who waits on your husband hand in foot while he does anything he wants...a weak Gringo mans dream. I am glad you have found love but am sorry you are so miserable here. You should consider doing what my wife does and spend the entire summer in Brazil, she gets her fix and then is good for the rest of the year. By the way, just so you know, I met my wife while she was working as a Brazilian diplomat at the DC consulate, her father is a 4 star Admiral in the Brazilian Navy...did I mention they are all white.

Brazil is a melting pot, there are Brazilian societies from all over the world, Europe, Asia the middle East, most of these communites are segregated as they are in the US, Asians in LA, Brazilians in Boston and Miami, Mexicans everywhere...ect. But to claim as Ana and the Brazilian do that racisim does not exist or is not a problem in Brazil is not a valid or intellectual argument. I am a white European American, I hope I am not a racist, I try to think of myself as anti racism, but I really can't understand what it is to be a victim of racism...but I know it exists. I hear and see it in the work place all the time...but while I lived in Rio for 2 years, I saw it in the work place all the time as well. That's why I think articles by white Mr. Wells should all be read with a very large grain of salt.

You made a lot of assumptions about Ana, does she seem like someone that don't have knowledge on the language? Americans are segregated, this is undeniable. When I went there I got surprised by the quantity of mexicans, maybe at work you would see different people together, but other than work this woulndn't happen. It's nowhere close to what Brazil is. The parallel you tried to draw between blacks in Brazil and hispanics in the US previously simply cannot be.

You say that denying racism in Brazil is not a valid argument, but affirming racism in Brazil is? Is there any logic for it?

BTW, "cerveza" is not a word in portuguese.

while people from different places in the world
all have there own places in the US it is not because they are put there .

it is the schooling affect , now listen and read , they live togeather because they want to they feel safe in a place where every one speaks there own language . and culture .
why do so many brasilians live in boston , the US did not put them there , whay do so many cuband live in florida , the US did not put them there .
they want to be around there own kind
at least in the USA you can live where ever you can afford to live
go to school every day , get feed at school , watch TV in a language you can understand , get news from home , receive mail from places in the states

RACISM is the feare of the unknown ,
the stupid whom dont think .
the ones unwilling to change ,

you have to be schooled to be a racist

in the US it is not awlloed not to hire some one just because of race , crede or color

Moreover, what is the principle difference between Brazil and the United States on the issue of race?

Facts 1): Fernando Enrique Cardoso was the president of Brazil from 2000- 2008. There is not one Brazilian in 185 million; who does not know that Fernando Enrique Cardoso has an ancestor who was Black. Everybody in Brazil knows it. People outside of Brazil know about it.

Fact 2): Brazil is apparently having some impact on U.S. policy towards mixed race individuals in the United States. Evidence: The United States is flirting with making a president out of a man who has a White mother and a Black Father in the form of “Barack Obama”.

Fact 3): Under the United States “one drop” rule: any person with “one drop” of Negro blood or one black ancestor is labeled “Black” even if all the other drops of blood are white drops of blood. Under the United States “one drop” rule, President Fernando Enrique Cardoso would be labeled a “Black Man”. The 76 million Brazilians, who identify as mixed would be labeled “Black”, and the vast majority of the 91 million “white” Brazilians would be labeled “Black” or not White. And, “white” Brazilians would be labeled Black if they had so much as one drop of black blood. See U. S. Supreme Court decision in Plessy v. Ferguson, 163 U.S. 537, at 538. Just type in Plessy v. Ferguson in your web browser and hit enter. Plessy was seven eights white, and one eight black and was locked up and jailed for sitting with “pure” whites.

Fact 4): Barack Obama, who has been a senator for about two years, was apparently “shocked” when white power told him they might make him president. The man said on TV that he never even imagined a year ago that he would be running for President of the United States.

THE OBVIOUS QUESTION: What is the political motivator behind making an American President out of a man who has a white mother and a black father?

ARGUMENT:

BRAZIL and her mixed race population is the answer to “the obvious question”. To appreciate this, you have to exam just how rare it is in the United States to have a White parent and a Black parent. It’s almost unheard of in the United States, but not in Brazil.
You see in the United States, “mulattos” are scorned and hated, their numbers are almost non-existent, but not in Brazil. You’re starting to make the connection? Brazil is a country of enormous potential: the size of the United States, with vast resources, and 185 million people for man power and completely energy independent. It’s is an industrial nation. “Shocking”, Brazil’s influence may result in the first U.S. President, who has a white mother and black father. You see, before now, all U.S. Presidents have had a white mother and a white father. GO BRAZIL!

Mark Wells is not "white"; he's "black".

Mark Wells is a African American in the usual normal sense of the word. It's obvious

"Insight" (Mark Wells) I knew you were black, your school (Marygrove College in Detroit) is famous for being a major African American school. This makes no difference to me, I judge you for your character not your color (MLK jR.) Mr. Wells I can tell you that you are wrong regarding Fernando Henrique Cardoso, he said he had African ancestors, he used the term "tenho um pe na cozinha", Genealogists looked for it and did not find it. Maybe the genealogists are wrong, but I would not trust what politicians say... they will say anything to win votes. We do know that his ancestors were bad people, his great-grandfather wanted to kill all the Brazilian Real family after the declaration of the Republic. He was a general in the Brazilian army and he definitely had some issues. I also know that the "one drop" rule in the US is irrelevant, the truth is that most white Americans do have some sort of mixing, the most common being native American, and also some African blood. In a few generations it will be 100%. Europeans also had never been 100% white, I think the discussion should be regarding the cultures that each civilization has.

While it is true people in the US those who have a known black ancestor are considered black, there was a DNA study done, I think by a Penn State professor who found, I believe, around a third of white americans have some black ancestory. So I guess the whole racial purity thing in the US is somewhat of a myth also. But maybe things would be better there if people were aware of this. One reason the US has a lot more segregated neighborhoods is becuase you have a lot more recent immigrants. Brazil stopped having mass immigration 50 years ago, and this allowed people to assimilate. In the past Sao Paulo had many ethnic nieghborhoods. The decendents of the immigrants who came to the US at the start of last century have mosly assimilated also. I have american friends who are part Japanese, part Arab, Part American Indian, ect. but are still considered white. You just cant be part black. Unfortunetaly, because of affirmative action for the younger people it is now useful to not be considered white in the US, thus making it harder to assimilate more recent immigrants because of the incentive. In addition, the majority of people are so ignorant in the US that they will buy anything if it is sold right. So the myth, that you can only be white if all your ancestors are white is sold, if they only looked at the real evidence many would be shocked to find they are not "pure".

Thanks by bo.

"But to claim as Ana and the Brazilian do that racisim does not exist or is not a problem in Brazil is not a valid or intellectual argument."
Please SAVY, include me in the "is not a problem" part. It is not.

"You say that denying racism in Brazil is not a valid argument, but affirming racism in Brazil is? Is there any logic for it? "
No logic, no facts, no argumentation. It's obvious that if I claim something I should be able to prove it and it's much, much easier to prove that something happened than that it never happened. If SAVY says he has been in Brazil, he can prove it showing a stamped passport, a picture, etc, but how would it be possible to prove he was never here? Btw, I'm not claiming there is no racism in Brazil, but it is less than a problem, although there are a bunch of irresponsible people trying hard to make it a huge one with those quotas and other stupidities.

So I ask those who insist on the brazilian racism subject: give us some facts, please.

Facts are things like the following:

We had a black Governor of the state of Rio, the second most important. Celso Pitta, mayor of the most important city, Sao Paulo and a governor of Rio Grande do Sul which is in the region where according to some morons here everybody is nazi. But don't expect facts from them they have slogans, prejudices and tha't all.

See? It's not that difficult.

Paulista (a Brazilian),

The US also had politicians that were black, look at Mrs. Rice and Mr. Powell. Many more Black politicians than Brazil in fact. Still it does not prove that there is no racism in the US or Brazil. You are terrible at arguments, in fact most of the time you make no sense. Go back to school, and please do not go to USP. You have to go to another country to get a good education. In a few years you may be able to use good argument

Sorry, Ms. Rice and not Mrs. Rice

Fact 2): Brazil is apparently having some impact on U.S. policy towards mixed race individuals in the United States. Evidence: The United States is flirting with making a president out of a man who has a White mother and a Black Father in the form of “Barack Obama”.

huh? How is that a brazilian influence?

Brazil is a country of enormous potential: the size of the United States, with vast resources, and 185 million people for man power and completely energy independent. It’s is an industrial nation. “Shocking”, Brazil’s influence may result in the first U.S. President, who has a white mother and black father. You see, before now, all U.S. Presidents have had a white mother and a white father. GO BRAZIL!

E harmony had the potential to be president, but then he was convicted of statutory rape, and had a thing for "tranny's".

Potential.......Brazil, the country of the future, it was in 1970, and it is today!

Now who told you nonwhites are never considered Americans in the U.S.? I have lived here my whole life and no white person has ever told me I was NOT an American. Yes, I am from a subgroup of Americans but I am one nonetheless. I have never heard of the black athletes who have represented this country in the Olympics being charged with not being Americans, nor the military members of which I was one told "you can't serve you are not an American." And I suppose the reason the USA celebrates Martin Luther King's birthday must be because he is not considered an American. Maybe you have nonwhite citizens in the U.S. confused with the way nonwhite immigrants are seen in Europe.

The typical black American has had ancestry in this country for at least 7 or eight generations. About one-fourth of the men in George Washington's Army by the end of the Revolutionary War (based on a British eyewitness report) were black. The last time a serious attempt was made by white Americans to remove blacks from the U.S. was in the 1860's.

And Paulista, you really don't get it. Beethoven has responded to you in a sufficient way, but why don't you provide me with a sufficient explanation of why folks with any indication of African features are so widely excluded from your media. Based on your population, at least half of the folks in your media should be black or brown but instead it is closer to ten percent. Blacks are more prominent in the U.S. media even though they are only thirteen percent of the population. The reason you exclude them is because of your serious inferiority complex. Mark Wells is right in that regard.

Yes, the United States does have "black" politicians. Like Condolezza Rice, Colin Powel, and Black lawyers, Black doctors, Black judge's and Black millionaires, and Blacks in every position of power, or almost. What the United States does not have is mixed race individuals in these positions. The people you have named, they are not mixed, they are "pure" black. Black father and Black mother. President Cardozo looks "white". I know that he is considered "white" in Brazil inspite of the fact that he has a black ancestor, but then, that's the point.

I don't see why you feel the need to lie about President Cardoza's "Black" ancestor. I know his famous saying, "I have a foot in the kitchen" refering to his scant Negro ancestry. I read about it in College. He's not ashamed of it; he's public about it. Why are you ashamed of it? It's the truth.

Ok, I understand your point. You are trying to say that most politicians are pure black. I disagree, Colin Powell for instance, is he really 100% black or his parents are perceived as "blacks"? I do know that most Jamaicans, in this case Powell's family origin, are mixed. I read genetic researches that mentioned a level of 90% of Jamaican population being mixed. Example: Bob Marley

Let me guess, you are a brazilian that studied in the US? So according to your little "ad hominem" no brazilian would ever be able to discuss with you, because they aren't you? We all see the awe-inspiring-and-marvelous american education in the complete geographical and historical ignorance.

The basis of the argument for "racism" in Brazil is that "you can't deny it", without any evidence besides the twisted and illogical interpretation of a black activist. Sorry, but that doesn't impress me.

Maybe you could use some of your secret skills of argumentation, and leave everyone here speechless with such perfect logic! I say "secret" because we haven't seen none yet, but since you criticized paulista's argumentation I assume you are the best.

hahaha .. is this the best you have... pathetic

Saturday September 1 3:46 PM ET

By PETER MUELLO, Associated Press Writer

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (AP) - In the 1994 presidential campaign, candidate Fernando Henrique Cardoso used a popular phrase to refer to his African ancestry. ``I have one foot in the kitchen,'' he said with a laugh. Brazilians knew what he meant - menial workers are overwhelmingly black - but despite some scattered complaints that the remark smacked of racism, few saw anything wrong with it. Cardoso, who is light-skinned and considered part of the white elite, won the election.

The idea that it's a ``racial democracy'' has long been one of Brazil's most cherished myths. But as it participates in the U.N. conference on racism in Durban, South Africa, the government is having to deal with a problem back home. Although Afro-Brazilians make up nearly half the population of 170 million, they make up 63 percent of the nation's poor and less than 16 percent of graduating university students last year, according to government figures.

The illiteracy rate for Afro-Brazilians is 26 percent, compared to 10 percent for whites. In the job market, things aren't much better. A black man earns on average 48 percent less than his white counterpart in the same job, according to the Sao Paulo State Socio-Economic Research Foundation, which monitors labor statistics.

Although racial discrimination is a crime, help-wanted ads often require ``good appearance'' - which is widely taken as code for white. ``Poverty in Brazil has a color,'' read an opinion article this week in the financial daily Gazeta Mercantil, considered Brazil's Wall Street Journal. ``From the racial viewpoint, Brazil and the USA are different - there, whites and blacks are equal but live separately; here, they are together but unequal.''

While soccer player Pele and pop star Gilberto Gil may be Brazil's multiracial face to the world, outside of sports and entertainment Afro-Brazilians find few opportunities. In Congress, only 12 of the 513 members of the Chamber of Deputies and two of the 81 senators are of African ancestry. None of Cardoso's cabinet ministers is black, and Afro-Brazilians are rare in top corporate or financial posts. In the Brazilian delegation to the Durban conference, members of human rights groups are pushing for a commitment to concrete affirmative action policies.

One idea is to set quotas for Afro-Brazilians in public universities. A recent survey revealed that only 12 of the University of Brasilia's 1,400 professors and 80 of its 18,216 undergraduate students are Afro-Brazilians, political science professor David Fleischer said. The university plans to reserve one-fifth of its entrance slots - 800 a year- for black and mixed-race students in 2002, he said.

However, Education Minister Paulo Renato Souza opposes quotas for all universities. He says Brazil will seek $10 million from the Inter-American Development Bank to fund groups that offer special courses to train Afro-Brazilians for Brazil's college entrance examination.

Not good enough, some critics say. ``A policy of racial quotas for blacks isn't ideal, but it becomes necessary as nothing else now exists to put blacks and whites on equal footing,'' said Ivanir dos Santos, a leading rights activist and head of the Outcast Coordination Center. ``It's time to create mechanisms for compensation.''

But black pride has not taken root in Brazil outside of African-culture centers like Salvador, the nation's colonial-era capital. Many Afro-Brazilians simply deny they are black - a 1998 census found more than 300 descriptions for skin color, including ``cinnamon,'' ``coffee-with-milk,'' ``blue,'' even ``encardido,'' the Portuguese word for ``filthy.''

Still, some see progress in the simple recognition that racism exists in Brazil. ``We always refused to discuss this question because we said we didn't have this problem,'' said Roberto Martins, head of the government-run Applied Economic Research Institute. ``Now the debate has begun.''

Insight,

I agree with the article that you posted here.

If Fernando Henrique is your Hero, I am very sorry for you.

I'm glad there is a country where mixed race people can become something and attain a position of power like, Fernando Enrique Cardoso. Those of you who dislike Brazil because the Brazilians allow mixed race people to prosper are the real "racist". Your just racist towards individuals of mixed racial background --and that's your tiff with Brazil. You are aware that mixed race poeple can suceed in Brazil and you don't like that. President Cardoso is an illustration, that in Brazil, "one drop" of black blood doesn't mean a hill of beans in terms of preventing a person from advancing, and you racists NAZIS don't like that.

I had some respect for you. Now I have none.

Yes, that's the best I could. Would you, by any chance, do better than try to offend others? All poor and ignorant souls that attend this forum could benefit from your erudition. Let us know when you start.

Owe, and I'm quite white.......

I would add Insight that Brazilian "Whites" are not unique in acknowledging African ancestry. The British Royal family probably qualifies as the whitest of White families and yet Queen Elizabeth II referred to an African ancestor--through Queen Charlotte who was the wife of King George II as long ago as 1952. The African ancestry of Queen Charlotte came though a Portugese aristocratic ancestor of hers (LOL). I can refer you to the site that discusses this if need be.

Also, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, American actresses Cameron Diaz and Heather Locklear (American blonde goddess types) have all referred to their African ancestors. And of course, the late Egyptian President Anwar Sadat had a black African Sudanese mother. Sometimes Brazilians act like they are the only country where race mixing has happened. If Queen Elizabeth has African ancestors, just about anybody is fair game.

I think this article you posted is very similar to the racist thinking we see here, as for example:

Many Afro-Brazilians simply deny they are black

This is an imposition. People that say such things is thinking in terms of "racial purity" ideals, where the fact that the person is mixed automatically makes her "black", or "afro-descendente" as they call it in Brazil. Probably they think the "afro-descendente" label would be more easily accepted than "negro".

We see it being used already, the main places are universities and public exams because of the quotas. If you declare yourself as "afro-descendente" your competition will be much smaller or you receive a "bonus" in the final score of the exam, giving you some advantage over all others.

People get into the game. This is by no means acceptance of the racist politics, but people will do what favors them when it's possible simply because they are humans. So you see even funny situations, as once appeared in a newspaper, like a blonde guy signing up as "afro-descendente" because he had black ancestors.

This association of Brazil with Africa and this labeling of people as "afro-something" is going backwards, not an evolution. Currently the african culture is well established here, there is no repression of any form of expression, this kind of politics will only generate racial hatred and intolerance.

Unfortunately all these supposed "mixings" you mentioned weren't enough to create a less racist society in those places. In Brazil is a different history, because mixing wasn't just a few and from some supposed ancient ancestor, but widespread and from direct relatives. And it is really something more advanced than the american society. You will inevitably reach this same point where we are now some day in the future.

It's pretty revealing though to see blacks and whites teaming up in order to support a racist mindset, either by downplaying mixing as irrelevant as you have just done, or by simply imposing definitions and "realities" on others as shown in the article posted above.

Brazil is the country of the future due to its ernormous potential and the 185 millions population !!!!!

Quite a joke such statement.

In 2005 Brazilian society just went above the buying power they had......in 1980 !!!!!!

Tremendous improvement......after 25 years !!!!!!!!

Will Brazil continue to exist ? Ohhhhh yesssss...of course.
But Brazil and LATAM in general will continue to lag the Asian economic growth rates....just as you did for the last several decades and will continue for the next several decades.

Dont forget that South Korea was poorer than Brazil 2 or 3 decades ago only. By now they beat you hands on, on production, technology, quality, productivity and education !

Brazil grew at 10% rate per year around the 70s, it doesn't mean it lasts forever as you can see.

It's pretty revealing though to see blacks and whites teaming up in order to support a racist mindset, either by downplaying mixing as irrelevant as you have just done, or by simply imposing definitions and "realities" on others as shown in the article posted above.

So, we impose definitions and realities if we say Brazil has white people and black people and mixed people, but you are not doing that when you say Brazil is "Mixed" and only "Mixed" So Italian-Brazilians, German-Brazilians, Afro-Brazilians are all irrelevant; they have to fit the "Mixed" Brazilian profile. This is real dictatorship; I believe people should define themselves as they please. Do not generalize a Brazilian.

In Brazil is a different history, because mixing wasn't just a few and from some supposed ancient ancestor, but widespread and from direct relatives.

Prove it.

I don't see why you feel the need to lie about President Cardoza's "Black" ancestor. I know his famous saying, "I have a foot in the kitchen" refering to his scant Negro ancestry.

And what's that tell ya about the perceptions of blacks in brazil? "foot in the kitchen"!

And Colin Powell has a honkey in the woodpile somewhere!

In Brazil is a different history, because mixing wasn't just a few and from some supposed ancient ancestor, but widespread and from direct relatives.

Prove it.

Please refer to the national census. There will be aproximately 7% blacks or so, 39% mixed and some other percentages for others. The 39% value is enough to claim "widespread". If you apply the american ideal of "racial purity", part of the whites in the brazilian census would actually be mixed.

If you apply the american ideal of "racial purity", part of the whites in the brazilian census would actually be mixed.

Hey Genius, what you are doing there is pure speculation.....

The IBGE statistics show that 53% of Brazilians "identify" as "white"; 38.5% identify as mixed-race, and 6.2% as "black". Why not have an affirmative action program that reflects these numbers, if you're going to have one at all? To me, given that Brazil has a large population, why can't affirmative action be based on the fact that a person is mixed race, as opposed to making acess to the University dependent on whether or not the person accepts being labeled as black, when in truth what they are is mixed?

I've got know problem with seeing blacks get affirmative action; what strikes me as odd is refusing "affirmative action" to mixed race indiviuals. Why can't mixed race individuals check off that they are "mixed" and get "affirmative action" in Brazil's Universities on the base of being "mixed race" and not black? 53% of the whites could be in postions of power; 38% of the "mixed race" person could be in positions of power; and 6% of the blacks could be in position of power. Then, you would have a "representative government" that reflects the population of Brazil. This sounds better than eliminating the 38% mixed race population on paper by forcing them to identify as black, when they are not black in truth. That's all I'm advancing here people.

So, we impose definitions and realities if we say Brazil has white people and black people and mixed people, but you are not doing that when you say Brazil is "Mixed" and only "Mixed" So Italian-Brazilians, German-Brazilians, Afro-Brazilians are all irrelevant; they have to fit the "Mixed" Brazilian profile. This is real dictatorship; I believe people should define themselves as they please. Do not generalize a Brazilian.

I think there's a misunderstanding here. I didn't exclude anybody. As a matter of fact in my very first post in this thread I say Xuxa was as brazilian as anybody else, no more and no less. People are what they are. The problem many see is that some racists would call, for example, someone that has german and african blood as "afro-descendente", ignoring all other ancestors this person might have. In you comment above you completely ignores the case of when the person might have many ancestors of different origins, when this happens the system of labeling you blindly believe fails.

This is just one form of "one drop rule", since "afro-descendente" is an euphemism for "black". Some racists see this freedom to call oneself whatever way he wants as a form of "denial", because the right label would be either "black" or "afro-descendente". And this is wrong.

I believe it's safe to assume this country is formed largely by mixed people, and this shaped the society and culture in a way different than the american one. The american society is highly segregated.

Your Brazilian University "Racial Quota" system could reflect the same. 53% of the seats in University would be reserved for whites, 38 % of the seats in University would be reserved for "mixed-race" persons, 6% of the seats in University would be reserved for blacks. What's wrong with this, givem Brazil's population statistics?

Thus why do you continue your explanations....contradicting yourself ??????
Based on your explantions, I could also say that the USA had never racism, because people came from all over the world, whites or blacks, asians, latinos.

It remains there was an anti blacks racism for over 1 century.

Thus if you agree that one should better ask Blacks Brazilians if there is racism in Brazil, why do you end up by sayying the opposite. I bet....you are white Savy !As
And as someone already answered you Mark Wells is of Black Origin, meaning he is Black and not white as you supposed !
and you get a typical example of a black telling whites that YESSSSS there is racism in Brazil, but mostly against Blacks and much less against other skin colors !!!!!

SORRY....TYPING MISTAKE !!!!

I believe it's safe to assume this country is formed largely by mixed people, and this shaped the society and culture in a way different than the american one. The american society is highly segregated.

You believe!! It is not the reality.

Of course, and you are so smart that if a dark skinned Black from both dark skin Blacks parents...could define himself as......FINALLY WHITENED SOMEWHAT ?????

I just remind you that for a national stats a few years ago , Blacks colored brazilians defined themselves under 300 DIFFERENT NAMES (colors)....just as they absolutely wanted to appear...the least black possible !

And this is quite normal, because due to the racism in Brazil, they have the color inferiority complexion that whites have shown them, starting from housing areas, schools or better....NON or poor education.Therefore they will define themselves as whatever...but not really simply blacks !!!!!

" Still it does not prove that there is no racism in the US or Brazil. You are terrible at arguments, in fact most of the time you make no sense. Go back to school, and please do not go to USP. You have to go to another country to get a good education. In a few years you may be able to use good argument"

Well, well, well. See what we got here! A moron shy enough to choose the nickname which would fit him, Adolf Hitler, very cleverly opted for another German. Could you please tell me what school should I atend? Please not the one you went. It's obvious you can't read at all. I NEVER said there is no racism in Brazil. What I said is that is not an issue, it is not even in the 20 biggest of our problems.

~So, we impose definitions and realities if we say Brazil has white people and black people and mixed people, but you are not doing that when you say Brazil is "Mixed" and only "Mixed" So Italian-Brazilians, German-Brazilians, Afro-Brazilians are all irrelevant; they have to fit the "Mixed" Brazilian profile. This is real dictatorship; I believe people should define themselves as they please. Do not generalize a Brazilian.~

You read what you want to read, but that`s not what was written. What was written, may be not clearly enough for somebody like you to understand was that
It would be very difficult to find what you call Italian-Brazilians or German-Brazilians and that`s because mixing is widespread here, believe it or not. You (avid to racially profile everybody) would have a tough job here. You`d end defining people as being Portuguese-native-French-Italian Brazilians.


"Ana and Paulista
written by The American Historian, 2007-02-26 14:52:52

Now who told you nonwhites are never considered Americans in the U.S.? "

Now I'm starting to worry. I challenge anyone to quote where I said ANYTHING about the U.S. Unlike many americans here (and some german wannabes) I don't lecture on what I don't know. I never said anything, positive or negative about the States. But hey, does the truth really matter when you are sure Brazil is a racist country and nothing will change your mind?

Sometimes Brazilians act like they are the only country where race mixing has happened.

Now, that`s true. I`d just add the word some before Brazilians, but wouldn`t include me on those. What I say is that Brazil is surely among the countries in the world where almost nobody cares about anybody`s race or origin or color.

~The basis of the argument for "racism" in Brazil is that "you can't deny it", without any evidence besides the twisted and illogical interpretation of a black activist. Sorry, but that doesn't impress me.~

He is just practicing what Goering taught. Repeat and repeat a lie and it`ll become true.

I believe it's safe to assume this country is formed largely by mixed people, and this shaped the society and culture in a way different than the american one. The american society is highly segregated.

Actually, even the sociologists and historians that defended the Brazilian "racial democracy" said that Brazilian society is mostly Portuguese. You can even look at what Gilberto Freyre wrote, I do not believe at his work but you can check his work to see what he said. Nobody ever denied that the basis of Brazilian society is Portuguese, (At least the famous writers of Brazilian Civilization) therefore European. There is not a "New out of nowhere" Brazilian culture. To trace a parallel to what the American Historian said. The United States is based on European Classical Roman and Greek civilizations. The same is valid for Brazil. Rome/Greece - Lusitania - Portugal - Brazil. Brazilian society is Portuguese society with a different racial structure. The only problem in Brazl is that our culture since Vargas is largely influenced by Socialism and Communism. That is our differential. Look into the Guide that I recommended to you.

Yes, A Braziilian, but you need a "mixed race" movement, just as the black Brazilians are doing. Something that insures your place in Brazilian society. It's you that they want to destroy. The Portuguese are your best friend --remember that. I can imagine the "Portuguese" have not forgotten about that sepratist movement and the attempted theft of a few Brazilian states. States that have belong to the "Portuguese" for 500 years.

Michael Jackson became white. It does not seem to have affected his humanness; he´s still very human. Doesn´t seem to have brought him more success or happiness.

The headline is catchy but not too instructive.

My comments concerning the above quote was in response to Ana's statement about nonwhites never being accepted as Americans. True, you did not say that.

But then Paulista you come right back and say Brazil is a country where almost nobody notices or cares about race. My goodness. Nobody in Brazil notices race; that is why almost all of the folks on television and in your publications look European. That is why almost all of your rich are white. That is why almost all of your government officials are white. That is why almost all of your beauty contest winners are white.
All of this is because Brazilians--unlike people in every other human society do not notice people's race. I am glad to see we are clear on that.

I'm a Brazilian who lives in us for almost 5 years.I'm da raca negra,Living in Brazil I had some problem being negra but I could never imaged how my live would
change here.American talk about race all the time.You turn on TV there is a talk show about race, in every school paper or work paper or medical paper you have to write
your race on it.The more they try to prove they're changing using one black,one Hispanic one white in the same commercial the more racial I see them.Here is really about color.
Here we are media class just like we were in Brasil.When my daughter was in elementary school I confessed that I didn't see a lot of difference but now that she's in middle school
it's so sad to see how they start to divide in groups of white,Hispanic and black.Being negra and living in both country I can tell that in Brasil if you have money people see you like human and your color are not so important( this is not good either but we're talking about race) but here black can be rich and still white people treating them like garbage.
And here they invented two more races,Hispanic and Latin (Latino) are in the race category Even though we know that Hispanic are people who speak Spanish and Latin or Latino are people who speak a Latin language.Can be people from South America or People from Europe.Do you know when we say in Brasil "every thing ends in samba.
Here every thing ands in race,thats American favorite subject.

I'm a Brazilian who lives in us for almost 5 years.I'm da raca negra,Living in Brazil I had some problem being negra but I could never imaged how my live would
change here.American talk about race all the time.You turn on TV there is a talk show about race, in every school paper or work paper or medical paper you have to write
your race on it.The more they try to prove they're changing using one black,one Hispanic one white in the same commercial the more racial I see them.Here is really about color.
Here we are media class just like we were in Brasil.When my daughter was in elementary school I confessed that I didn't see a lot of difference but now that she's in middle school
it's so sad to see how they start to divide in groups of white,Hispanic and black.Being negra and living in both country I can tell that in Brasil if you have money people see you like human and your color are not so important( this is not good either but we're talking about race) but here black can be rich and still white people treating them like garbage.
And here they invented two more races,Hispanic and Latin (Latino) are in the race category Even though we know that Hispanic are people who speak Spanish and Latin or Latino are people who speak a Latin language.Can be people from South America or People from Europe.Do you know when we say in Brasil "every thing ends in samba.
Here every thing ands in race,thats American favorite subject.

Hi,

Sorry to interrup such a lively discussion. Does anyone know if it is difficult tobring a laptop to Brazil temporarily and what is required to do so? I hear conflicting stories about Customs.

Mariana Andres, I agree 100% with your post. Yes thier are probllems with race in Brazil and I believe even racism, but it is different. If you are black american you are part of that group first and an individual second. Unless you have the benefit to be considered white american, then you can act anyway you want and the majority looks at you as individually good or stupid. If you are black or a made up race like "latino" you are expected to act a certain way, or you are being a sell out and "acting white". While in Brazil there are people of different races and colors, they are usually seen as an individual first. I still blame this United States sickness mostly on giving affirmative action to minority groups (which encourages people to see themselves as part of a group and not as individuals) and multiculturalism. Affirmative action to blacks for a time may have been acceptable in the US due to the severe racial segregation that took place in the US, but now everybody wants to be a minority there because there are so many benefits. It is easier to get into school, get government construction contracts, ect. This increases the incentive for people to not consider themsleves part mainstream culture. Brazil on the other hand has a multiracial society but in general has on dominant culture, this creates less friction although that is not to say that there is no racism in Brazil.

Laptop should be fine if it is used. I wouldn't declare it though, just go through customs and play dumb. If you are only on a tourist visa it should be fine...I think...anybody else?

I have never worked as an empregada for an American family but for Elite pure europeans Brazilians that saw me as white as well when I was 14 years old. My parents were farmers and I grew up poor nor uneducated. I speak 3 foreign languages and my I never had difficulties with languages at all. I worked as an assistant for an American company when I was 17 and helped them with things such of housing, shopping and translation on job sites.
I think is hilarious that you think because of my humble background I am an ignorant idiot. I have an 135 IQ by the way. My English is perfect when spoken and people think I have lived here since I was a child.
It is insulting that just because I am from Brazil you think I am an ignorant and uneducated person. It only shows your racism against immigrants and your ignorance.
You are truly the example of an American idiot:
"American Idiot"

Don't want to be an American idiot.
Don't want a nation under the new media
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind f**k America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along to the age of paranoia.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

Don't want to be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information age of hysteria.
It's calling out to idiot America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Where everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
For that's enough to argue.

Born in Braz, been in us and dated a white guy. I agree one hundred per cent with nesnej about racism in Bra and in US. All the discussion is informative, congrats

As for your description, you sound a little einstein Ana P. But that is rap??

Not rap. this song is by Green Day.

I think you are generalizing too much about money making all Brazilians treat you like you are human and rich blacks in the U.S. being treated like "garbage." Good treatment or poor treatment can occur in either society if you are brown or black.
I think Brazilians must believe the U.S. is an all around horrible place so they can feel
less frustrated about the problems in their own country.

And Nesnej, Brazilians are NOT seen as individuals first. Look at all of those "individual" dark skinned Brazilians who have served as your government leaders, rich business elites, who have married into Brazil's richest families, are the major stars of most of your television shows and movies, are your supermodels and beauty queens. Oh yes, nobody notices that these dark Brazilians don't look European.
That is why every Brazilian mother tells her daughter to go out and find the darkest, most African-looking man she can find because she knows other Brazilians will she him as an individual first. I bet everywhere you hear Brazilian mothers talk about how they want the darkest-skinned grandkids possible because race does not matter in Brazil. This conversation is just silly and bordering on the comedic.

I think Mark Wells fails to recognize the difference between a "racist society" and a "society with racism." The social matrix for the first is race but not to the same extent for the latter. Racism is part of the U.S. social matrix to such an extent that race has become people's "master status" in society. One is Black, Brown, white, etc., before they are doctors, lawyers, etc. A person of color with a Ph.D. is a person of color in the US. (Actually, there is a racist joke about this with the N word). There is definitely racism is Brazil. However, in my opinion it is not the main element of the Brazilian social matrix, at least not to the same extent as it is ingrained in the US. I think class is fundamentally more important in Brazil, even though it does interact with race; race is a factor among several factors. Historian Carl Degler in his book Neither Black Nor White calls this "social race," which involves phenotype, class, education, etc. By the way, his book is one of the best books I've ever read on comparative race relations between Brazil and the US, even though it is a bit old.

Cheers Mark, another very good article. WAKE-UP FANTASYLAND.Very good comments Luiz Mendes Jr. A Brazilian lives on her own world and words (and worse, believes on them).

Now come on, as one who is black and has worked as a lawyer and military officer in the U.S., you are generalizing way too much. And I think your claims about a distinction between a "Racist Society" and "A Society with Racism" misses the mark.
When Brazil and the U.S. both had slavery and a system of laws and customs meant to uphold it, I would say they were racist societies. Today, both are closer to societies with racism.

And what many of you fail to consider is the fact that while blacks and browns make up at least half (probably more) of the population in Brazil, blacks represent only 13% of the U.S. population so if you are white and live in the U.S. it is much easier to be segregated from blacks because THERE ARE MUCH FEWER OF THEM. I'll bet Europeans
who live in China live around alot more Chinese people than they do in Europe or the U.S. To the extent Brazilians have more interactions with people who do not look white, well you have no choice because they are in a lot more places. Whites in the U.S. who live in major cities--where many more blacks are concentrated are more likely to work with, date or marry blacks than whites who live away from them. I witnessed the same fact about military bases--there are alot of blacks in the U.S. military. There is no superior Brazilian approach to race. Some of you are making yourselves look foolish.

The first historians and sociologists to deal with this question, Frank Tannenbaum (Slave and Citizen), Gilberto Freyre (Casa Grande and Senzala or the Masters and the Slaves), Stanley Elkins (Slavery:A Problem in American Institutional and Intellectual Life, and Pierre van den Berghe (Race and Racism) were very much aware that the social matrix in Latin America was different from that in the United States. For example, Pierre van den Berghe created a continuun of race relations in which Brazil was palced closer to Mexico and the United States closer to South Africa. Eventually, scholars such as Carl degler questioned their work based largely on statistics, leading us to think that racism in Brazil was just like racism in the United States. (That is exactly what ones gets for example by reading Racism in a Racial Democracy by Francine Twine). Well, perhaps it is time to revise the revisions. I agree there is racism in Brazil but it is not the same social matrix as in the United States. In some ways US racism is more virulent than in Brazil but in other ways Brazilian racism is more virulent than in the United States. US racism is loaded with hate and Brazilian racism is loaded with false consciousness. That is, iIn the US people are aware they are hated or "disliked" (just ask any Mexican) but in Brazil blacks often need to be convinced that they are being screwed.

Interesting points. I think you should elaborate a bit more for the sake of this discussion. Some people here need to understand your nuanced perspective.

The problem in saying there's "racism" in Brazil is that the american blacks will understand it, either due to their willingness in painting Brazil as a bad as possible or by plain ignorance, in the same way as it is in the US, i.e., that they are hated and if some people could, they would just kill them or send them back to Africa.

Brazil has its problems, but the vision from Mark Wells is flawed. We see lots of bias from the many statistics that are published. For example, they insist in grouping mixed people with blacks and if they were one thing in opposition with the rest of the society, because that way the statistics will look incredibly awful and they will favor the activists' cause.

If the quantity of blacks considered were around 7%, would that be too far from what we have today in the brazilian society? It wouldn't be sensationalistic. See the eagerness of people like "American Historian" to claim that "blacks and browns make up at least half (probably more) of the population in Brazil". If they don't twist the "facts" this way then they aren't able to draw people's attention.

American whites play along, since due to their racist mindset brazilians aren't "white" anyway, so this is also a way of establishing an anglo-saxon system of values in Brazil.

"I think Brazilians must believe the U.S. is an all around horrible place so they can feel
less frustrated about the problems in their own country."

Please, this is very important to me: I don't think the US is an horrible place. I love it. I've been there 6/7 times, I'm planning to go again this year and I'm always defending it here. Btw, last Saturday I did it (defending the US) "against" two of my closests friends.


"That is why every Brazilian mother tells her daughter to go out and find the darkest, most African-looking man she can find "
That would be wrong and that's exactly the point: why should a mother tell a daughter to find somebody of a specific race ?????????

"Brazil is a country where almost nobody notices or cares about race."
It may sound comedic, but that's my opinion, almost being the key word here.

I think Bola put this in the right context. This is more or less what I was trying to get at but don't have the sociology education to articulate it. American Historian, valid points also, it's a complicated subject. At least people are discussing it like rational human beings which rarely happens on this sight.

I think Bola Preta, alongside others here, gave us some big help on trying to gather the puzzle and realize how does racism operate in this complex nation called Brazil.
What I´ll write now might be rather simplistic and many might desagree, but, I think, has some relashionships with the points Bola Preta defends. When he declares US is a "Racist society" while brazil is closer to be a "society with racism", he´s not necessarially saying racism is Worse in the US, and that´s emphasized on his second post. Such statement makes me think USA as a pacient with an uncurable desease (or at least a decease whose final cure is not yet visible in the horizon), something like AIDS, that can´t be cured but can be threated on a level the pacient (USA) can live a healthy life with the virus. USA has an aidetic racism but is taking it´s medication well, while Brazil has its racism as a curable decesase like tuberculosys, but is taking no (or very few) medication and, therefore, lying in a hospital´s bed, very ill all the time.

Where´s, after all, the big merit of having such curable decesase if you can´t even do half of what the uncurable patient can? It´s time to start taking our medications instead of flattering ourselves for not having AIDS, but tuberculosys.

Why don't you just say "I want Brazil to have racism"? That's what your post was all about, in a creative way. You want it.

Trying to reply
written by paulista, 2007-02-26 09:11:51

to e harmony:
"Brazil already has had a dark black woman I believe as either mayor of the city of Rio or the governor of the state of Rio - I "
Governor of the state of Rio, the second most important. And we also had Celso Pitta, mayor of the most important city, Sao Paulo and a governor of Rio Grande do Sul which is in the region where according to some morons here everybody is nazi. But don't expect facts from them they have slogans, prejudices and tha't all.

I didn't know Sao Paulo once had a black mayor or at least one fitting the description as black. I knew about Marta Suplicy (sp?) but I didn'y know about Celso Pitta.

I agree with the poster, Luiz Mendes. The issue of most importance is not: Whether or not you have racism in Brazil? But, how you deal with racism. If you don't have mixed race politicians, judges, lawyers, doctors, and all other professions then you will be eliminated from brazilian society. Moreover, as you can see from lula's racial quotas and his 4 new cabinet members black brazilians are gaining "positions of power". What about you? How many of Lula's cabinet members are of mixed race like you: A Brazilian. If your civil rights get violated can you go to a mixed race lawyer, who will bring a lawsuit on your behalf in Brazil Court? Is there a mixed race judge, who will allow your case to be heard by a mixed race jury, so that you can be compensated because you were wrong, and wrong not because you are black, but because you are mixed "morena" or whatever term you chose. While you sit on the internet and muse with foreigners, Black Brazilians are moving into "positions of power". You think you've got problems now, you waite until you live in a Brazil society where the only people in positions of power are either white or black and no one who is in Power is mixed. Then, it's gonna hit you like a ton of bricks that the one being excluded isn't the blacks or the whites --its you the mixed race Brazilian. Wake up, and get your head out of the sand and do something while you can. First and foremost, get some mixed race lawyers to advance your cause. Moreover, get some mixed race people into college so that you can have some mixed race lawyers in the first place. Then, you might be able to get some mixed race judges. If all you do is muse around with foreginers on the internet... well you did it to yourself.

I've never met a civil rights lawyer, or any professional who got their degree becuase all they did was chit chat and not aquire the qualifications that are the prerequisite to "positions of power". And, never approached government and asked for a position of power. What are you gonna do: A Brazilian. Sit on the internet and talk with us foreigners? What matters is Whether, when you are wrong that you have someone like you to go to who sympathises with you because they know exactly how you feel because they have lived it themselves and have a law degree. The same counts fro other professions. If you don't learn some character and aliance to people like yourself --then your nothing. I like Fernando Enrique Cardoso, because he's white and I'm white, and I make no appologies for aliances with my own kind.

written by bo, 2007-02-26 14:47:37

Brazil is a country of enormous potential: the size of the United States, with vast resources, and 185 million people for man power and completely energy independent. It’s is an industrial nation. “Shocking”, Brazil’s influence may result in the first U.S. President, who has a white mother and black father. You see, before now, all U.S. Presidents have had a white mother and a white father. GO BRAZIL!




E harmony had the potential to be president, but then he was convicted of statutory rape, and had a thing for "tranny's".

Potential.......Brazil, the country of the future, it was in 1970, and it is today!

That post was not made by me. I have already given my real name, let my penis hang out, been forthcoming about my appreciation for sensual and attractive transsexuals, and even given such personal info as having been found guilty in court of law for having sex with a 17 year old young lady when I was 20. There is then, no more, or even less so, reason to believe Justin hides under multiple identities and posts under them than a poster named "bo" does - who by the way claims to have one of the most sexually attractive black wives in all of Brazil. So attractive this wife of "bo's" is... everyone on the beaches of Brazil turns their head to gawk at her. "Bo's" financial enterprise and political and power connections are no less fascinating I would suppose.

Bo, understanding that knowledge and wisdom are two different things, and giving to the fact that you seem to be rather slow in the head, allow me to help you out on a little social truth. A musical artist and social sensation like "Prince" may have at one time been shocking to people with his stage performance, dress, beliefs and or lifestyle but over time all those things would lose their shock value. Your frequent commentary about the predilections or convictions of e harmony, forming the base of your objection to other posters you disagree with, ultimately only helps e harmony out because you do more than he could ever to diminish the shock value of his conviction or admitted appreciation for attractive transsexuals. However, your frequent mentioning of e harmony, to form the base of your objection to posters you disagree with, as though they should fear "guilt by association" only makes you seem juvenile, and if you have any academic diplomas above high school then you come off looking unethical.

written by hieuhrus, 2007-02-26 22:45:30

As for your description, you sound a little einstein Ana P. But that is rap??

Like Ana said that is a song of Green Day, it's a pretty well known song for those that like the group. I like some Green Day's songs but I personally don't care for their track "American idiot."

I DON'T KNOW WHY IS SO HARD FOR AMERICAN TO UNDERSTAND THAT BRAZIL ALREADY HAS SO MANY PROBLEM TO DEAL WITH, LIKE POVERTY,VIOLENCE,CORRUPT POLITICIAN
AND MUCH,MUCH MORE THAT RACE BECOME SO SMALL TO US.
DON'T TAKE ME WRONG I REALLY LIKE THIS COUNTRY,WITH MY HUSBAND WORK WE HAVE BEEN IN MANY COUNTRIES LIKE CANADA AND SOME IN EUROPA,I HAVE TO BE HONEST THERE ARE NO COUNTRY LIKE USA.IT'S TRUE WHEN THEY SAY THAT AMERICA IS A COUNTRY OF OPPORTUNITY.THAT'S WHY MANY PEOPLE ARE KILLING THEMSELVES TRYING TO GET A PEACE OF THIS DREAM. I'M SAYING THIS TO AMERICAN SEE THAT I DON'T HATE AMERICAN OR AMERICA.THE OTHER PROBLEM HERE RIGHT NOW IS WITH THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION .THEY 'RE RIGHT TO WORRIED ABOUT IT.SAME PROBLEM HAPPENED TO BRAZIL WITH MIGRATION FROM NORTH TO SAO PAULO AND RIO, BUT LETS FACE IT THEY WOULDN'T BE SO WORRIED IF INSTEAD OF MEXICAN OR SOUTH AMERICA PEOPLE, EUROPEAN WAS THE ONE WHO WAS COMING HERE.I DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN WHY!!.
MAKE ME SAD BECAUSE IF WASN'T FOR THIS I WOULD WANT TO LIVE HERE FOR MUCH MORE TIME.
SORRY FOR MY POOR ENGLISH,I HAVE TO KEEP IT SIMPLE SINCE I STILL LEARNING ENGLISH.

Bola Preta and the American Historian make some interesting points and Savvy proves that retards have finally learned to use the internet.
The problem in Brazil is not one of race but of class. Blacks, as millions of economically disfranchised Brazilians, are still struggling to be recognized in a society where the distribution of wealth is alarming and inexcusable. On the other hand, racism is a reality in the US and its presence can be seen everywhere. You can go to almost any city in the US and find neighborhoods that are mostly black. You can take the bus and most of the people riding in it will be black (except in cities such as NY where mass transit system is a pragmatic choice). You can visit most prisons and realize that the large majority of people incarcerated are black. You can visit any social service and witness firsthand that most people waiting in line is...yes you guessed…black. Even in places where it should be crystal clear that we are all part of God’s creation, the church, you will find segregation in America. Almost any city you go (South and North), there are churches attended only by whites and there are churches that you will only see blacks (there are, as always exceptions).
You will NOT find in Brazil all black neighborhoods nor a person, black or white, that is a situation where he will be afraid to lose his life because of the color of his skin (in the favelas of Rio, it doesn’t matter if you are black or white, if you don’t belong there, you will probably be shot). You will NOT find that buses in Brazil are used by mostly blacks. You will NOT find that the Brazilian jails are populated by mostly blacks. You will NOT find in the very long lines of INAMPS or Postinhos de Saude mostly blacks standing or waiting for health services. And most definitely, you absolutely will NOT find all black or all white churches anywhere in Brazil.
As I pointed out here earlier, there are millions of excluded in Brazil and that is not a matter of chromatic skin pigmentation, but rather the consequence of a society controlled by a few and openly infatuated with a ruthless, self-serving and immoral caste system.

I think your English is pretty good. The United States is a large and complex society, so
do not reach conclusions too quickly about the way things may or may not be. For example, many of us know the issue of illegal immigration is complicated. Those immigrants bring benefits and some problems, so one should not conclude all Americans think one way or the other about this matter. I know that Brazil's problems,
both in general and in the areas of race are complicated. But usually at this forum I am limited to responding to some of the most outrageous statements and alleged facts which keeps my arguments from being more nuanced. I hope you continue to provide your perspectives on these topics. And I never assumed you hated the United States.
A Brazilian might hate the United States, but he can tell us one way or the other.

Lula said he would appoint the first "Black" Supreme Court justice to the Brazilian Supreme Court. As I said before, the Black Brazilians are gaining "positions of power". What about you? Will there be a "mixed race" or morena Supreme Court justice, too?
And if not is that discrimination against morenas or mixed race Brazilians? Give it some though. Remember what I told you earlier....

A Brazilian might hate the United States, but he can tell us one way or the other.

I wrote sth but it was gone... And if I , who am not a brazilian poster, disliked US? Would I be wrong? Shouldn't I have reasons? I do not hate US and Americans I just dont allign with lots of their positions, behaviors and mentality. I see real people, not their virtual profiles, whites and now blacks in America a bit as reactionary ppl. I am just expressing one impression

Like Ana said that is a song of Green Day, it's a pretty well known song for those that like the group. I like some Green Day's songs but I personally don't care for their track "American idiot."

okay thks I do not know Green Day by lyrics or songs. BTW, Bo and chick sound so similar sometimes... Ask if his beautiful wife has left him...

The word "SEGREGATION,” 100% genuine american invention!

You said... "do not reach conclusions too quickly." Follow your own advice because you as much about Brasil as my dog knows about your war loving nation, the usa.

Don't feel insulted if I say you sound a bit suspicious to me. The things you write look a lot like what some blacks write, I am not saying that the same thing, but similar. Of defining yourself as something and "fighting" for affirmative action and your "race" to be properly represented. I believe that people must be worthy, if I found a stupid or unfit mixed race individual then it would be better that the darwinian "survival of the fittest" followed its course.

Although I understand that in the US there isn't much of a choice regarding it, I think in Brazil the situation is very different. Lula may be pointing black people to some positions, and a few may talk about racism, but it's definitely not a earth shattering movement. More people attended to the "gay pride" parade than to the black one. You won't find brazilians as rabid as the black Nazis we have the opportunity to read in this forum that easily.

Lula will take pictures kissing babies, shake hands with illiterate people, appear on speeches talking about the hard life of the rural workers, and, yes, appointing black people for his platform because that's what politicians do. They are politically correct, and in Brazil they also need to promise a "good life" to everyone, because most believe it's the government's responsibility to give them jobs, health, houses and everything else they need.

I don't think being hyper-sensitive about their racist goals is the way to go. And if Brazil falls for this siren's call someday, of promises of richness and happiness and then the reality of hate, segregation and inferiority complex, then I will welcome it because it's going to be the biggest evidence that brazilians are indeed stupid and deserve to be screwed. Then I would try to find another country to live in while hoping for the inevitable "survival of the fittest" law to wipe off the Earth such a country of pathethic losers.

My strategy is to refuse and resist peacefully. I think, though, that most people underestimate this country and its culture, and they will have a surprise.

A Brazilian might hate the United States, but he can tell us one way or the other.

I don't hate anything or anybody, I just don't like the US consulate and I don't agree with Mark Wells.

Now when you call people "Black Nazis" you are sending a subliminal message of hate.
I am not aware of any black Americans (or Brazilians) who seek to bring about genocide to millions of people in Brazil or elsewhere. Nobody is advocating hate, segregation or killing grandmothers or babies. Rigid caste systems inhibit a country's potential whether they are imposed by class or race. They snuff out the creativity that
many could contribute to the common good by instead rewarding people soley based on who their family is or what they look like. If you don't realize that this is much of what holds back Latin America (as well as other regions of the world) then you are part of the problem--not me a black Nazi. Sad, sad sad.

I am sorry Ana, but what you write above about speaking and understanding English
very well, translating for an American company and speaking three languages does not fit with what you have said before. Maybe I am an American idiot like you speak about, but during another post I thought you said the reason you could only get a job here in the U.S. as an exotic dancer was because of the language barrier. Since you speak English so well, and have already worked as a translator for a U.S. company, you should be able to get many jobs here. If you speak three languages, you should apply for a job at the U.S. State Department or the United Nations. But you say you can only get work as an exotic dancer and now must wait for them to rebuild your dance club which recently burned down?

Maybe you are really an American, or a Brazilian student or even the child of a Brazilian diplomat here. But your story does not make sense. If in fact you really live in Arizona, I worked with an organization registering voters during the Presidential election there two years ago. They were always looking for multilingual people, so maybe if you really are in Arizona I can call on your behalf (I am in California) and get you some help. Don't go back to working in filthy, low-down dance clubs like Bada-Bing from the Sopranos. Are you sure Tony Soprano or Don Corleone did not burn down that dance club?

The company I worked in Brazil went broke since president Bush stopped sending companies down to South America. They were a Power company helping Brazil rebuild their energy structure. I cannot find a decent job here that I can make enough money to make it worth it leaving my child on some stranger's care and I can make my own hours dancing and I make between $500-$1000 per night only work 3 nights a week and only 15 hours. Can you find a job that pay me that much American Historian? and also allow me to spend the whole day with my kid? If you can I will take it. Jobs in AZ pay very little and after the energy job crisis my husband took contracts around the country, finally now he works for an out-of-state company with a permanent job in AZ but making much less than he used to. Of course nothing beats the fact that we don't have to travel around anymore and can settle down. So we decide on that. I don't like to be useless and I send money back to my family(Mom, dad and bother) also help my sister and her kids when they need and don't think is fair to take from my husband income to give to them.
My husband is 46 years old and I am 23 years old. The last thing I want is to give the impression to the already ignorant people that I want my husband to support my whole family. I did help my family before him and will continue to do so with my money. I am very happy dancing since I go to the beach topless anyways, there's really no difference except that I am getting pay. I also model and travel to California for jobs. I have done two major magazines one of them was a men's magazine(nude).
Jobs for translator are looking for Spanish speakers and they don't pay very well. More like $10hr-15hr.
I have never said the reason I worked as a dancer was a language barrier. Go back to my posts and you will see that.
My husband don't mind me being a dancer neither does my family since they know who I am as a person and my character. Normally the ones that criticize me are the ones the don't know me, like you.
My club has a fire accident but since I am moving to a new house on the other side of the city, I will be working somewhere else. A brand new 6000 square ft, two store building club close to the Cardinals and Coyotes stadiums which will be very good for money since all the sports people out there.
I have never worked in a filthy strip club and never will and please don't offend Italians with your stereotype of them being members of the Mafia since I am part Italian. My grandfather is 0 Italian and my dad is half. If you don't agree with my line of work at least respect my decision since I am an adult.
Here this song really tells how it is and that is my stage name

Jezebel wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth
She probably had less than every one of us
But when she knew how to walk she knew
how to bring the house down
Can't blame her for her beauty
She wins with her hands down

Jezebel, what a belle
Looks like a princess in her new dress
How did you get that?
Do you really want to know she said
It would seem she's on her way
It's more, more than just a dream
She put on her stockings and shoes
had nothing to lose - she said it was worth it

Reach for the top
and the sun is gonna shine
Every winter was a war she said
I want to get what's mine

Jezebel, Jezebel
won't try to deny where she came from
You can see it in her pride
and the raven in her eyes
Try show her a better way
she'll say you don't know what you've been missing
by the time she blinks you know she won't be listening

Reach for the top she said
the sun is gonna shine
Every winter was a war she said
I want to get what's mine

I want to get what's mine

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CSy...ed&search=

This video is soo funny!!!

Spike Lee interview with American GQ

What’s your take on Bill Cosby's speeches in which the comedian has bitterly reproached black audiences, telling them they are to blame for their own social, political, and financial woes?

I commend what he’s doing. We are at a time in our history when fewer than half the African-American males in New York City’s public-school system graduate high school. That is criminal. So is the mind-set young black kids are getting through a lot of their music—and through their videos and through some parts of the culture—that if you’re smart, if you’re intelligent, if you get good grades, you’re trying to be “white,” you’re a sellout, you’re an Oreo, you’re a punk-ass bitch.

If you can say one sentence that’s not profane with proper grammar, that means you’re a “punk-ass bitch”? Criminal!

And I always bring it back to slavery, which we don’t like to do. Remember, it was against the law in this country for my ancestors, who were slaves brought from Africa, to learn how to read and write. If you got caught reading or writing, or teaching someone to read and write, you could get whooped, lynched, or hung—maybe all three if the massah was havin’ a bad day.

Look at me. I am a third-generation African-American college graduate. My great-grandfather was a disciple of Booker T. Washington at the Tuskegee Institute. My grandmother, who will be 100 on August 2, was an art teacher who saved fifty years’ worth of Social Security checks to pay for the college education of her grandchildren—that woman put me through Morehouse and NYU film school. So my ancestors knew that education was the only way out of bondage. And now this whole s**t’s been turned topsy-turvy, with intelligence being equated with “acting white” and ignorance being equated with “acting black.” So I commend Bill Cosby for calling out these young black kids who say, “I’m gonna be a rapper,” or “I’m gonna play ball in the NBA or the NFL,” or “I’m gonna sling drugs on the corner,” as if those were the only options. And I gotta say, this goes to all these rap guys who are infatuated with Scarface, calling it their Bible and memorizing every line. I cannot believe that s**t!

I just wanted to say it doesn't really matter if ana p. is stripper. Although I didn't agree with everything said by her, being a stripper is irrelevant. I wish I could make a $1,000 a day. s**t, I would be happy to make a $1000 Reais a day.

who by the way claims to have one of the most sexually attractive black wives in all of Brazil. So attractive this wife of "bo's" is... everyone on the beaches of Brazil turns their head to gawk at her.

sexually attractive?? lol. Man, everything is sex to you isn't it justin?? I mean, you have some serious hang-ups son, but you've already admitted that. Convicted statuatory rapist with a thing for tranny's. Real nice justin, who the f**k are you to lecture anyone about anything?

BTW, I could give a rat's ass what you or anyone on this site believes. My statements have been called into question before about their validity and I've given ways for people to confirm some of them from time to time, and guess what? No takers! My wife is mulatta, she just turned 24 years old, her tits are almost too big, and they're hard as rocks, and 100% natural, and has the typical brazilian ass, but most important for me, she is gorgeous, her face, her hair, etc. When we go to the beach everyone does look when she removes her kanga. Many times you'll see the girls with their boyfriends, or wives with their husbands, get pissed at them because they just sit and stare.

...
written by Ana P., 2007-02-28 05:22:40

The company I worked in Brazil went broke since president Bush stopped sending companies down to South America.

Ana, are you that stupid or are you a habitual liar?? I think I know the answer, a little of both. Because strippers are habitual liars, they just can't help themselves.

Jobs in AZ pay very little and after the energy job crisis my husband took contracts around the country, finally now he works for an out-of-state company with a permanent job in AZ but making much less than he used to. Of course nothing beats the fact that we don't have to travel around anymore and can settle down. So we decide on that. I don't like to be useless and I send money back to my family(Mom, dad and bother) also help my sister and her kids when they need and don't think is fair to take from my husband income to give to them.

Well that's awfully big of you Ana, you're not going to make your husband support your mother, brothers and sisters! Did he marrry you, or your entire frickin' family?? I tell ya, 95% of you brazilian women are ALL the same! And, don't ya think that YOU should contribute along with your husband to YOUR household?? Or does your husband pay for everything?

My husband don't mind me being a dancer neither does my family since they know who I am as a person and my character. Normally the ones that criticize me are the ones the don't know me, like you.

Any self-respecting man would never allow his wife to work in a strip club! And, any self-respecting woman would never want to work in one!

If your husband doesn't care that you work there, it's because he doesn't care.....period.

I can somewhat understand some of these girls working as whores here in brazil much more than girls working in strip bars in the U.S. The realities are quite different, in brazil many if not most of the girls here are prostitutes because there is no other way out. Strippers in the U.S. decide to be strippers because they have no respect for nothing or no one, most of all themselves, and its easy money! Well, many girls find out just how "easy" the money is when they end up getting hooked on drugs, or they start "hooking" themselves, turning tricks with regulars, or you get caught in the cross-fire of all the illegal s**t that's going on in those clubs.

A good friend I grew up with is an FBI agent, you should ask him where they hang out at when they're looking to pop drug dealers and other organized crime.

You have no respect for your family, for your husband, for your child, and most of all, for yourself!

Nothing prevents anybody from contributing in any way.

My wife is mulatta, she just turned 24 years old

You had said your wife were black previously. Now you she is a mulata?

Spike Lee's comments reflect the views of some black Americans, but remember it is easy to misinterpret his comments. Many poor black men may not be graduating from the New York City public school system, but in the U.S. overall 86% of black have a high school diploma or its equivalent by age 25 (the white rate is 93%). Almost 20% are college educated (white rate is 30%). If 50% of U.S. blacks were high school drop outs their poverty rate would probably exceed 50% while in fact it is near 20-25%. Spike Lee is a film maker, not an expert.

Thanks for your figures about the state of African-Americans in the US. Those figures do not suprise neither me nor, I suspect, Bill Cosby. Informed people are well aware of the fact that just a minority of Black people have deep economic/educational problems but that does not mean that these problems need not to be tackled or talked about as I did .
Anyway the message I wanted to come across is that I agreed with Cosby insofar he affirmed that ****some**** Black youth culture glamourizes ignorance and this is the result, in my humble opinion, of a black segregationist movement which paradoxically educated Black people like Mark Wells indirectly/(un)knowingly support.
I consider ignorance something negative but if I were to tell those Black people destroying the English language (and will thus have always problem finding a job for that and not only for racism....) to speak proper English I would be called a racist by the Black segregationists (and Cosby a damn sell-out/whitey). And let me add that one more time it shows that fighting racism with racism like leads to the opposite results...

In Italy when I criticize people who speak regional dialects and parents who speak dialect to their children instead of Italian (thus laying the groundwork for future school proplems for their kids) I am called a snob....same mistake again

I can't believe you idiots can't see that. There are NO blacks on TV. Blacks must enter through the BACKS of hotels. Give me that stupid isolated commented about Pele and Xuxa again, and I will give you plenty of isolated comments in the other direction:

1. Ronaldo's family was stopped at a condomium and mistaken for favelados. They were treated like common criminals because they are BLACK.
2. There is only one black federal prosecutor. The other federal prosecutors have parties and don't invite him because he is black.
3. Dr. Rudolpho is the only black doctor in Vasalia. At the time of budget cuts, instead of lowering all the doctor's salaries, they threatened to fire Dr. Rudolpho, although he was considered the best doctor in town. They did that because he is black.
4. Pretas for work, mulattas for sex, brancas for wife is a common proverb. (Brazil is also a sexist hellhole, but that's another story)
5. Xuxa is by American standards very ugly. We have blonds here so we don't think that just because someone is blond she is pretty. But Brazil wants so badly to be European they will put an ugly blonde on TV before they will but a beautiful black any day.
6. A black woman with a mixed daughter was stopped by the Policia Militar and accused of kidnapping her own children.
7. A senator's daughter was stopped on a college campus by a white parent and not allowed to go to class because she is black.

There are tons more examples of the racism in Brazil. If you're too stupid to see it then that is why your country is still the third world.

written by bo, 2007-02-28 09:55:24

who by the way claims to have one of the most sexually attractive black wives in all of Brazil. So attractive this wife of "bo's" is... everyone on the beaches of Brazil turns their head to gawk at her.




sexually attractive?? lol. Man, everything is sex to you isn't it justin?? I mean, you have some serious hang-ups son, but you've already admitted that. Convicted statuatory rapist with a thing for tranny's. Real nice justin, who the f**k are you to lecture anyone about anything?

BTW, I could give a rat's ass what you or anyone on this site believes. My statements have been called into question before about their validity and I've given ways for people to confirm some of them from time to time, and guess what? No takers! My wife is mulatta, she just turned 24 years old, her tits are almost too big, and they're hard as rocks, and 100% natural, and has the typical brazilian ass, but most important for me, she is gorgeous, her face, her hair, etc. When we go to the beach everyone does look when she removes her kanga. Many times you'll see the girls with their boyfriends, or wives with their husbands, get pissed at them because they just sit and stare.

@ bold: Apparently you.

I mean... if you were John Paul II maybe not, but being f*ckin "bo" I think I can lecture you on a thing or two (the difference between county and city being one of them).


@ bold: I thought your wife was black? I recall you stating in the past, that she was black, and you stating this in relation to some comment about Brazilian men never being willing to date black women (unlike you). Now she's mulatta? I suppose Brazilian men never date mulattas in Brazil?

written by bo, 2007-02-28 10:07:41

A good friend I grew up with is an FBI agent, you should ask him where they hang out at when they're looking to pop drug dealers and other organized crime.

You have no respect for your family, for your husband, for your child, and most of all, for yourself!

You mean they hang out in all those strip clubs in Las Vegas? Vegas is you may know, virtually run by corporations and not the La Cosa Nostra anymore (minus the licensed business they run and or small rackets outside of running casinos).

I read a few years back that strip clubs in the United States were the fastest growing form of entertainment clubs in the U.S. Most of these newer strip clubs the article pointed out are no longer "small" and "sleezy" so to speak, but rather they are more high end styled clubs with millions of dollars poured into the building, light and sound systems and so forth. In fact newer strip clubs around the nation seem to operate more like Playboy magazine than small, parochial, sleezy joints. I mean these places have famous exotic dancers that tour the nation, and not only that, there are sophisticated executive officers and or CEO's of multi-million dollar corporations conducting deals at these newer strip clubs today. I either saw some news show or read an article before about this phenomenon of executive officers of respected companies taking clients or other business men out to strip clubs to negotiate and or close deals.

Ana, do not put words in my mouth alleging I am defaming Italians, I meant no such thing. Maybe it was not the Mafia that burned down your club but a black mobster named Biggie Smith or Kansas City Mac. Or maybe a Mexican mob guy named Carlos.
Does it really matter? No husband or members of your family no matter how much money you are making should expect you to work in a strip club--unless of course there are mean people here or in Brazil telling them and you that you have no other choice. There are ways I could make a lot more money than I do at my present job, but there are certain things I just won't do if you know what I mean.

And Luca I have no problem with your comments as long as they are directed at only some in the American black community.

Ouch. I am glad I am on your side.

One of the biggest problem in Brazil is igmorance, much like the ignorance that is regularly displayed on this board. I work with ONGs in Brazil and visit regularly for long periods of time in my work. And just like most of the people on this board Most Brazilians don't have a clue. Someone on this board even stated Brazil has bigger problems than racism, ignorant to the fact that racism has a large role in the other problems that exist. I know many intelligent black students in Brazil who are denied appointments to their college counselorson a regular basis and are treated very rudely by school staff. The military police go into favelas and execute young people at point blank range only by suspicion of being drug dealers. 61% of police killings are at point blank range. Despite the fact that TV shows with black actors does well (City of Men, Xica, Antonia) It is almost impossible to sell the shows to networks. There are many examples on a daily basis of blacks being insulted or humiliated by store owners, police, or average white citizens who believe blacks in Brazil are on the bottom of the social caste system and refuse to give up their place in the social heirarchy.

Furthermore one can not compare Brazil and the US or Brazil to South Africa. Each country has a different history but what they all do have in common is large populations vastly effected by racism. They all have a common thread.

Your claim that you work with NGOs doesn't help in your argumentation, and as a matter of fact it ruins it, because NGOs exist solely because of such "problems". If there were no problems there wouldn't be a reason for them to exist, so are you surprised that you were told that racism is a big problem? It is like saying that "God exists" because you are from the church and you work with them.

Many people are killed, treated rudely and not allowed in certain places, not only blacks. So what is this? Some are more equal than others?

There are social problems in Brazil, not racial. Those problems must be fixed. That's the cause of the existence of favelas and police violence. BTW, how is the proportion of blacks in the police? Are blacks killing blacks? Is this also considered racism?

There are tons more examples of the racism in Brazil. If you're too stupid to see it then that is why your country is still the third world.

It's still underdeveloped for a variety of reasons, but definetely race is one of areas we developed much more than americans, or any other anglo-saxon society for that matter.

I feel good now. When I have a daughter I will pray she becomes a stripper and adds prestige to the family name. Nice......

Pay no attention to the interference you hear known as A Brazilian. What you state about the television shows is interesting. It seems like shows with blacks could be successful but due to Brazil's unofficial whitening policy almost all shows must be overwhelmingly white. Here in the U.S. black American actors won top acting honors
this week through the Motion Picture Academy (Forest Whitaker and Jennifer Hudson)
for the SIXTH TIME THIS DECADE. Black/Pardo actors winning that many acting awards in Brazil? Good luck waiting for that.....The previous winners (here) were Denzel Washington, Halle Berry, Morgan Freeman and Jamie Foxx. This year Eddie Murphy, Will Smith and African actor Djimon Honsou were also nominated. If that many black actors were honored in Brazil the heart attack rate in that country would increase by a substantial amount.

Whatever BO and American Historian.

Not worth it wasting my time trying to convince you...

http://www.projectrace.com/fro...032602.php

Bo, the liar
written by A brazilian, 2007-02-28 12:27:54

My wife is mulatta, she just turned 24 years old



You had said your wife were black previously. Now you she is a mulata?

No liar here bud, my wife calls herself "preta", or black, I call her "mulata", for other brazilians!!! In the U.S., she's BLACK. And it doesn't bother me one bit what they call her. But obviously, it sure as s**t bothers the people here in brazil! When I tell people, "minha esposa é negra", and then they see her, they respond, "ela não é negra, ela uma morena linda"!

No motherf**ker, my wife is a beautiful black chick, period. She's not "cafe", or "mocha", or "morena clara", or "morean escura", wtf, and you people call americans racist and hung up on color!

Yeah, Bo just the same way Americans think Halle Berry is black. That's why you get pissed when people in Brazil say she is not negra!

...
written by e harmony, 2007-02-28 15:20:09

written by bo, 2007-02-28 10:07:41

A good friend I grew up with is an FBI agent, you should ask him where they hang out at when they're looking to pop drug dealers and other organized crime.

You have no respect for your family, for your husband, for your child, and most of all, for yourself!



You mean they hang out in all those strip clubs in Las Vegas? smilies/grin.gif Vegas is you may know, virtually run by corporations and not the La Cosa Nostra anymore (minus the licensed business they run and or small rackets outside of running casinos).

I read a few years back that strip clubs in the United States were the fastest growing form of entertainment clubs in the U.S. Most of these newer strip clubs the article pointed out are no longer "small" and "sleezy" so to speak, but rather they are more high end styled clubs with millions of dollars poured into the building, light and sound systems and so forth. In fact newer strip clubs around the nation seem to operate more like Playboy magazine than small, parochial, sleezy joints. I mean these places have famous exotic dancers that tour the nation, and not only that, there are sophisticated executive officers and or CEO's of multi-million dollar corporations conducting deals at these newer strip clubs today. I either saw some news show or read an article before about this phenomenon of executive officers of respected companies taking clients or other business men out to strip clubs to negotiate and or close deals.

Wow!! Really E??!! The fastest growing form of entertainment??? Well there must be some big ones, with hundreds of locations!!

Can you name them for us???

Ana and Luca
written by The American Historian, 2007-02-28 15:24:12

Ana, do not put words in my mouth alleging I am defaming Italians, I meant no such thing. Maybe it was not the Mafia that burned down your club but a black mobster named Biggie Smith or Kansas City Mac. Or maybe a Mexican mob guy named Carlos.
Does it really matter? No husband or members of your family no matter how much money you are making should expect you to work in a strip club--unless of course there are mean people here or in Brazil telling them and you that you have no other choice. There are ways I could make a lot more money than I do at my present job, but there are certain things I just won't do if you know what I mean.

And Luca I have no problem with your comments as long as they are directed at only some in the American black community.

Historian, you see it, I see it. Funny how they twist and tort, how they put words in others mouths. Is it on purpose? Could be. Could it be a ploy to get more traffic?? Could be. Could it be that people are really that stupid and ignorant?? Most probable!

The smartest guy I've ever known in business, owner of his own company, already sold several that he started from the ground up, multi, multi-millionaire, down to earth guy, extremely intelligent, always told me, "Bo, there are a lot of stupid people in this world".

And more and more everyday what he told me many years ago rings true!

You said you wife was an older girl now you said she is 24. If you going to lie at least have a good memory to recall the lies you've told .
Feel sorry for you and American Historian living in a little studio apartment East of LA with the "rochas" LOL.

You said she was negra in one of the threads where some americans were saying "blacks" aren't accepted in Brazil, that they can't attend the same places as the others (without knowing anything about this country at all, but nothing prevents the Nazi from saying so). You even cited an example of people giving weird looks at your wife. Now, it is only because "In the U.S., she's BLACK"!?

Now people "discriminate" her in Brazil because in the US she is black? Haha. That doesn't make any sense.

Everyone, this is Bo, see how he changes his story all the time to better fit his crusade against Brazil! Haha. And they still want to argue about racism...

LIE!LIE! BO
written by Ana P., 2007-02-28 18:05:17

You said you wife was an older girl now you said she is 24. If you going to lie at least have a good memory to recall the lies you've told smilies/cheesy.gif.

Ana the liar!!

I have ALWAYS said my wife is 24, unless it was before the beginning of november of last year, in which she was 23!

Buddy, I can get her to come and reply to this ignorant thread right now. Better yet, you can call and talk to her!!! I posted my phone number in another thread for GTY to call a week or so ago when he questioned whether I live in brazil. Give me a ring, you can talk to her yourself. She doesn't speak much english though, so you better speak good portuguese, lol.

Now people "discriminate" her in Brazil because in the US she is black? Haha. That doesn't make any sense.

Can you read AND comprehend??? It's plain to see what I wrote.


No Jethro, damn, I'm going to try and make a brazilian beverly hillbillies, will you be Jethro?

what to hell are you doing out of bed???


Most of you girls are just waking up about now with lockjaw from the night before.

@ bold: Apparently you.

I mean... if you were John Paul II maybe not, but being f*ckin "bo" I think I can lecture you on a thing or two (the difference between county and city being one of them).

And let's get something straight, I'm quite aware the definition of "county", and "city", my uncle was the sheriff of the county I lived in while growing up for a number of years. We were talking about "compton" at the time, and compton is known as "metro los angeles", correct?? Ok, I said it was a "neighborhood", it can correctly be described as a "city" in metro los angeles.

E, the only thing you can lecture me on would be how to spot the nuts on a guy dressed like a chick.

Just FYI Abriu….
There are blacks on Brazilian TV.
Blacks must not enter through the backs of the Hotel, unless they work there and the same is true of whites.
1. Because of violence, blacks and whites alike will not be allowed in any upscale condominiums without proper identification.
2. Please, tell us where you got this information concerning federal prosecutors not inviting someone because he is black.
3. Vasalia??? I never heard of this place. Is this like Jackson, Mississippi?? Do they have Confederate Flags painted on their pickup trucks there? Do they chant in barbershops and bowling alleys that “The South shall rise again??? Did Governor Wallace ever spend Christmas there???
4. I never hear of the expression “Pretas for work, mulattas for sex, brancas for wife”. (I lived in Brazil for twenty years).
5. Xuxa is beyond her prime but she was a very good looking woman in her day. The amazing thing about Brazil is this. You go to a mall in Brazil and you see so many beautiful women (of all colors). You try doing the same here and you will have a hard time finding someone who will call your attention. Even Jay Leno will joke that Americans are well known for the fat asses. American women are, as in general, either frigid bitches (that’s why so many American men will try to find brides elsewhere) or completely out of control sluts (Spring Break anyone??).
6. Again, could you please give us the context of this black woman with a mixed daughter being stopped by the Policia Militar?
7. I was wondering…was this senator’s daughter you speak of was taken outside and beaten by the police??? Was she rapped by white students??( You see…it is very easy to cite isolated instances moron. There is no doubt that you will find racism in Brazil, but never in its history a war was fought to maintain the right to keep other human beings in slavery).

5. Xuxa is beyond her prime but she was a very good looking woman in her day.

ohh, come on now, Xuxa is nothing but a common whore in the U.S.! You can find a Xuxa, actually much better, at any ole Pure Platinum or Solid Gold....tell 'em Ana!

7. I was wondering…was this senator’s daughter you speak of was taken outside and beaten by the police??? Was she rapped by white students??( You see…it is very easy to cite isolated instances moron. There is no doubt that you will find racism in Brazil, but never in its history a war was fought to maintain the right to keep other human beings in slavery).

Don't know about by students, but think she was "rapped" by Jay Z!

And brazil never HAD to fight a war to keep the people down, they just keep them barefoot,ignorant and drunk, seems to do the trick.

I wanted to make a comment about the statement made by Ana about Brazil not being a racist countrty solely because of its cultural diveristy. First of all, all people possess some degree of ethnic diversity. This natural, and inevitable, occurance has nothing to do with the HUMAN CREATED system of racism. Furthermore, America is racist. Racism was neccesary to justify the institution of slavery. The same neccesity existed in Brazil. Thats just a fact. So those in power were more European. It is also a natural tendancy for those in power to do what they can to remain in power. This can explain why the effects of racism are still evident throughout the Americas, both racism torwards the indigenous inhabitants as well as those of African ancestry. I'm not going to say which country is more or less racist, I just believe it is unfair to deny the existence and effects of racism.

Bo, Jay-Z is indeed a fine example of the high caliber music blacks in America are being inspired to create by their illuminated and blissful state. The lyrics of these new “spiritual negros” are full of poetry and demonstrate the racial utopia that America has become. I am sure that the black stripper that was raped dreamed her whole life to became an “exotic dancer" as she played in the nice house developments of heir idyllic town in North Carolina.
I am sure that a person like you Bo, a gringo capable of marrying a very attractive woman of black descent, can understand since you left the land of plenty in order to suffer in the beaches of Brazil. As you sit down and listen to Gilberto Gil and Raca Negra demanding reparations for their many years of oppression for being black in Brazil, the whole universe makes sense and as Brazilians walk by and gawk at your pure as snow wife….you…for the first time in your life understand that you have done the utmost sacrifice in letting this horrible place you call Brazil be your home.

Visit any upscale strip club in America and what will you find? Botox and silicone enhanced, promiscuous, insecure, gold-digger, shallow, intellectually challenged, constantly on drugs American girls (who were probably visited by uncle Fred or daddy in the middle of the night and decided one day to run away). The only exception to this are the girls that come from Eastern Europe and who are amazingly beautiful and of course Brazilian girls. If you have any questions about how attractive Xuxa was, check this website (http://birdcastles.tripod.com/xuxa.htm)

Was pushed out an upper story window, trampled by a horse, left dead on the street, eaten by dogs, and ended up as something one wouldn´t want to step in. Role model?

Then let´s talk about the heartbreak worse than that of psoriasis, class envy.

After I got out of school, why did some people around the water cooler criticize me just because my parents paid my way through college? Do you have any idea how that hurt? If I didn´t trust E Harm and Abe so much I never would have mentioned it.

And according to Diogo in Veja, when a guy steals a car, the real criminal is not the perp but the owner who had the audacity to have enough money to actually buy the Celta.

And now the Fetraf has invaded 16 lots of 250 meters by one kilometer each, belonging to and being efficiently farmed by a Japanese-Brazilian named Adélia Hashiguti. Class envy and more.

The contradictory feelings that the victim of class envy has to deal with, the heartbreak of having carelessly mentioned that one bought a house, and upon being asked about the interest rate, and answering, no, it was cash, and then the ostracism, the resentment, the loss of friends. The heartbreak of Class Envy.

Assuming for a moment that Brazil has no racism, assuming that proponents of that thesis have actually been all around Brazil and researched the question personally, and therefore there is no issue, what about Class Envy? Is this also a misconception?

I know the story of Jezebel from the Bible since I was raised in a Christian family. Actually I have read the whole entire Bible LOL
I did not choose my stage name based on her but because of the song by Sade named Jezebel which is about a girl that comes from humble beginnings and want to get what's hers. I've posted the lyrics above. it is a beautiful song!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5NgtaFuNerg

Thanks for the xplanation about your use of the name "Jezabel".

E Harmony
written by The American Historian, 2007-02-28 17:01:57

I feel good now. When I have a daughter I will pray she becomes a stripper and adds prestige to the family name. Nice......

While I personally have no problem with exotic dancers or their profession in and of itself, my point was not to suggest people encourage their daughters to aspire to that. My point was more along the lines of changes in social mores in the United States. Exotic dancing has become acceptable and is growing more acceptable year by year it seems in the U.S. I mean, perhaps the one and only thing I agree with bo on or perhaps will ever agree with bo on, is that in contemporary United States the vast majority of young women working as exotic dancer do not have to do so. I mean in todays world a young white 20 year old woman I feel safe in saying has far better chance in gaining decent paying employment in an entry level job than does a young black 20 year old male of equal qualification (minus in a few sectors e.g. military infantry, private sector construction). The money is good in exotic dancing and that is very attractive. H*ll, I don't blame them, and I don't hate on them either. I see no reason why a woman dancing naked or partially naked should be considered more "destructive" than throwing fragmentation grenades at someones child, brother, or husband or jabbing a fixed bayonet into someones rib cage. Many things we call "honorable" or "reasonable" are often times socially constructed.

Bo, you were caught lying
written by A brazilian, 2007-02-28 18:18:36

You said she was negra in one of the threads where some americans were saying "blacks" aren't accepted in Brazil, that they can't attend the same places as the others (without knowing anything about this country at all, but nothing prevents the Nazi from saying so). You even cited an example of people giving weird looks at your wife. Now, it is only because "In the U.S., she's BLACK"!?

Now people "discriminate" her in Brazil because in the US she is black? Haha. That doesn't make any sense.

Everyone, this is Bo, see how he changes his story all the time to better fit his crusade against Brazil! Haha. And they still want to argue about racism...

@ underlined: Yeah! You are right, I do remember him saying that.

written by bo, 2007-02-28 18:39:22

@ bold: Apparently you.

I mean... if you were John Paul II maybe not, but being f*ckin "bo" I think I can lecture you on a thing or two (the difference between county and city being one of them).




And let's get something straight, I'm quite aware the definition of "county", and "city", my uncle was the sheriff of the county I lived in while growing up for a number of years. We were talking about "compton" at the time, and compton is known as "metro los angeles", correct?? Ok, I said it was a "neighborhood", it can correctly be described as a "city" in metro los angeles.

E, the only thing you can lecture me on would be how to spot the nuts on a guy dressed like a chick.

Then you should have had me by your side before you married your wife.

Would have saved you all these years of pretending she's "she" when you're out in public. But now I understand the source of your bitterness with Brazil or "Brazilian deception" - you never thought you would get butt f*cked by your own Brazilian wife. Oh to be so far away from home. And to think you were the star quarter back on your high school football team, and now your little soccer star wife is more hung than you are. I bet you looked like this when she caught you from behind one early morning --> .

Bo, you either are really stupid or got a call from Reverend Moon telling you that your mission is to be de Devil’s Advocate at Brazzil.com
written by Alex, 2007-02-28 20:17:13

Visit any upscale strip club in America and what will you find? Botox and silicone enhanced, promiscuous, insecure, gold-digger, shallow, intellectually challenged, constantly on drugs American girls (who were probably visited by uncle Fred or daddy in the middle of the night and decided one day to run away). The only exception to this are the girls that come from Eastern Europe and who are amazingly beautiful and of course Brazilian girls. If you have any questions about how attractive Xuxa was, check this website (http://birdcastles.tripod.com/xuxa.htm)

Alex, I agree with this post 100%! And, I know Xuxa was good looking, but in the U.S. she would be no big deal. She's a big deal in brazil because she's a pretty blonde with blue eyes, and everyone looks ast her like...."oooohhh, look at her, she's different, she looks like those girls in the movies, and she's a brazilian!"

Believe me, know numerous brazilians, and actually one of my best brazilian friends, you could put a blonde wig and blue contact lenses on an elephant and he'd try and mount it!

I see no reason why a woman dancing naked or partially naked should be considered more "destructive" than throwing fragmentation grenades at someones child, brother, or husband or jabbing a fixed bayonet into someones rib cage. Many things we call "honorable" or "reasonable" are often times socially constructed.

Are you that sick? You're going to try and compare/justify the occupation of someone with a soldier at war? (rolleyes)


As far as my wife, I really couldn't care less what YOU think E harmony, I have a beautiful 24 year old wife, she is black, I called her "mulata" for all the brazilians on here, guess I should've called her black, she calls herself black, but OTHERS here in brazil do not call her "negra", they call her "morena", as if being called "negra" is a bad thing.

And E Harm, I wouldn't know about having things in my ass nor nuts on my chin, from your own self-admission, that's your department.

Bo, you either are really stupid or got a call from Reverend Moon telling you that your mission is to be de Devil’s Advocate at Brazzil.com
written by Alex, 2007-02-28 20:17:13

Visit any upscale strip club in America and what will you find? Botox and silicone enhanced, promiscuous, insecure, gold-digger, shallow, intellectually challenged, constantly on drugs American girls (who were probably visited by uncle Fred or daddy in the middle of the night and decided one day to run away). The only exception to this are the girls that come from Eastern Europe and who are amazingly beautiful and of course Brazilian girls.

Sorry Alex, didn't see the part I highlighted. The girls from eastern europe, although very beautiful, along with the brazilians, and you can throw the columbians in that mix in miami, are exactly the same as the gold-digging american ho's.

Don´t sell her short, the dogs loved her. Oops, sorry about the short selling metaphor in light of the Dow this week. Erase....

I like to look for the hidden meanings. Why are certain handles chosen?

E Harmonicas are not too common. Sure, E is a good key for the guitar, bunch your fingers up for the subdominant, on the banjo you have to fret up almost to the peg, but it works.

E harmonicas don´t sell very well. Start with C, up fifths for sharps, G, D, A.....E is four sharps. That may be why you chose E Harm., really sharp. Brass players don´t like sharps. On the trombone, just think F and play everything one position down, improvising. On the trumpet, if you can tune the slide down a full half step, play F.

Many piano players will just convert to flats.

So you started out feeling pretty sharp, E, what happened? It looked good on the score but you come out flat. Since you are into math, you realize that the diatonic scale is not perfect and people write in sharps to brighten and flats to subdue.

So start brightening the area instead of just muddying the water.

Everybody has an opinion about everybody there, the Japinese avoid the Chinese avoid the Koreans avoid the Samoans avoid the Tongans avoid the Blacks avoid the Native Hawaiian avoid the Haoli (white foreigner).
You can cut the opinion with a knife.

I was called a 'f**king haoli one time, the epithet was filled with vitriol, but I had never been called a racist name before and found it ludicrously bemusing, had I laughed I would have been punched in the face. Hawaiian's love to 'beef' (fight) It is the South Pacific and they are a warrior peoples stuffed into 21st century boxes of behavior and emotinal behavior, that thousands of years of genetics are in conflict with.
It is a 'racial pressure cooker' although in 'Paradise'

Brazil is the least racist of all countries except perhaps the Netherlands, but that is just my experience.

Interesting comment.

written by bo, 2007-03-01 06:51:19

I see no reason why a woman dancing naked or partially naked should be considered more "destructive" than throwing fragmentation grenades at someones child, brother, or husband or jabbing a fixed bayonet into someones rib cage. Many things we call "honorable" or "reasonable" are often times socially constructed.




Are you that sick? You're going to try and compare/justify the occupation of someone with a soldier at war? (rolleyes)

Can you elucidate on the destruction the nude human form and or sensual dancing has reaped upon mankind more than martial warfare? Does biology teach us that humans are born dressed in clothes and that sexual attraction and alluring behavior has zero to do with the biological makeup of the Homo homo sapien but rather bayonet was present in a infants clutched hands at birth? So is it fair to say you believe that the naked body of a woman is inherently more sinister and violent than presence armed militia or advancing armed troops?

As far as my wife, I really couldn't care less what YOU think E harmony, I have a beautiful 24 year old wife, she is black, I called her "mulata" for all the brazilians on here, guess I should've called her black, she calls herself black, but OTHERS here in brazil do not call her "negra", they call her "morena", as if being called "negra" is a bad thing.

And E Harm, I wouldn't know about having things in my ass nor nuts on my chin, from your own self-admission, that's your department.

So the Brazilians reject you wife by her phenotype but accept her by her phenotype because they call her mulatta. The key here being phenotype not label - if it was the label that was more important than the phenotype decreases in importance however if the phenotype is more important than rejection becomes absolute based upon the visual recognition of her dominate expressed gene.

Basically you make no f*ckin sense, bo. Accept that you lie.

E Harmonica
written by Ric, 2007-03-01 09:23:03

I like to look for the hidden meanings. Why are certain handles chosen?

E Harmonicas are not too common. Sure, E is a good key for the guitar, bunch your fingers up for the subdominant, on the banjo you have to fret up almost to the peg, but it works.

E harmonicas don´t sell very well. Start with C, up fifths for sharps, G, D, A.....E is four sharps. That may be why you chose E Harm., really sharp. Brass players don´t like sharps. On the trombone, just think F and play everything one position down, improvising. On the trumpet, if you can tune the slide down a full half step, play F.

Many piano players will just convert to flats.

So you started out feeling pretty sharp, E, what happened? It looked good on the score but you come out flat. Since you are into math, you realize that the diatonic scale is not perfect and people write in sharps to brighten and flats to subdue.

So start brightening the area instead of just muddying the water.

All that time in grad school and can't tell a worth while joke for sh*t. To bad you can't get your f*ckin money back.

Bo why do you keep mentioning how old your wife is, who gives a f**k. My girlfriend is 23, so what. Why are you so proud are? Are you 70 or something? Lots of people have good looking young girlfriends, and don't feel the need to talk about it all the time. You kind of sound like the frat guy everybody knew in college who came from a little town and always had to prove he was as cool as everybody from the city by talking about how hot the girl he was f**king was. Everybody listened but then just laughed behind his back. Do you come from a small town?

I got the same impression, hahaha.

Wasn´t a joke, Justin. Just a gratuitous, worthless, mindless comment I typed out. Because I could.

Got under your skin, though, didn´t it? Because when some people get upset, they cuss. The cuss words in your posts are in inverse proportion to your amiability index, Justin.

But your not the only one that hates it when I post worthless info. Trivializing the discussion is what I do best.

Tip: With most harmonicas, sucking and blowing produce different effects.

I would say by the standards of the U.S. Xuxa would rank as a third-rate blonde. Charlize Theron's looks would be first-rate, Pamela Anderson second-rate, and Xuxa would barely make the third cut with Paris Hilton. She looks like the kind of gal who would do a trucker after she served him his bacon and eggs at a truck stop in Arkansas, and then he would hit the road and move on. Have some fun for thirteen minutes and then hit the road. O.K., no more Xuxa comments. And lets not get started on Gisele or Giselle what's her name. She looks more masculine than James Bond.....

May be Therron.

I am about to go to get my morning breakfast and the waitress who works at my diner surpasses Xuxa in looks in my opinion. Not uncommon, especially in California.

And Ana, go visit a financial counselor to give you and your family help with your debts. If he can't help you, go file for Bankruptcy. Anything is better than working at a strip bar.

INTRODUCTION:

Now, in regard to the comment: "Now when you call people "Black Nazis" you are sending a subliminal message of hate. " This is exactly what I've been trying to warn you about, A Brazilian, only I call it: "Black racism". But in essence we are talking about the same thing. The issue is Whether or not "Black racism" exists? And, if it exist, how is it imposed? I can assure you it exists and it is practiced by Blacks in "positions of power" in the United States. I'm going to elaborate on this further, but I want to point out a few of the factual differences between the two counties without putting any spin on the facts. You see, I believe that you first have to acknowledge the truth of the facts, and then base your actions on what the facts actually are. So let's review some of the factual differences between the two countries that give rise to the distinctions in political policy which governs the way people live and interact:

FACTS:

The difference between Brazil and the United States is that you have 1) 76 million mixed people, in contrast, to maybe 75,000 mixed race people as in the United States, 2) A very large amount of your 91 million whites have an ancestor who was not "pale" white by "Hitler's" definition, and the definition of who is and who is not white is drastically different in Brazil than the definition in the United States under the "one drop" rule; and 3) the Portuguese reject the "one-drop" rule as evident by the way they define white, and the fact that they permitted Fernando Henrique Cardoso to become President of Brazil .

ARGUMENT:

Fernando Henrique Cardoso would not have had a chance in "Hell" of becoming President of the United States solely because of the "one drop" rule. Whereas you guys elected him not once, but twice 1995-2003. Not only could he have not become President of the United States, but he would have been scorned and hated by Blacks because of his "white" blood. You don't get to see this in action, because it is not allowed in Brazil. In Brazil Fernando Henrique Cardoso is loved, and protected by the Portuguese. In the United States he would be scorned hated and shoved to the bottom of the food chain under the one-drop rule. It's not what you see in the light; it's what you don't see that goes on in the dark, away from the prapoganda. Secondly, promoting miscengation is the polar opposite of what Hitler preached, which was the extermination and/or enslavement of all "inferior" race types --including what Hitler saw as inferior "whites".

In your country, Black racism does not exist yet because 1) the don't yet have the positions of power to impose it, and 2) the sanction or permission of white's in power to impose it. Also, were not talking about oppressing a few anomalies in the United States. In Brazil you are literally talking about oppressing over 100 milliion people if you include the Branco de terra's under the one drop rule. I suspect that will be a little harder to do. oppressing 75 thousand people is one thing oppressing 100 million that's another. But most important, the Portuguese don't want to oppress there own off spring including the mixed ones. After all, it is the Portuguese and there mixed off spring who have fought wars together when other "whiter" Europeans tried to take Brazil from the Portuguese by force --all of which failed --thank goodness. I told you before, the Portuguese are your best friend on earth, if it were not for the Portuguese your mixed race population would not exist, nor would you have ever had a White president, who has "one drop" of Negro blood in the form of Fernando Enrique Cardoso.

I'm gonna post something form a Book titled, "The Passing of the Great Race". Hitler wrote to the American who wrote the book and told the American write that the book is his bible. What I don't like about Hitler, among other things, is that he kills other white people and I'm white, too. I want you to notice the American author’s emphasis on "white supremacists and black nationalist alike". You can appreciate the Black hatred toward Fernando Enrique Cardoso that you can find posted on the internet, posted by non-Brazilians.

What goes on in the United States, besides the general scorn in the street by Blacks towards individual where the "white" blood is apparent in the person's phenotype is that the individual is often scorned and subjected to hostility in the work place and especially in the "education" environment to intimidate or some how cripple the individual in the obtaining of an education. This is by political design and is rooted in some of the theories advanced in the book "The Passing of the Great Race". And here's the clincher, when it happens to blacks at the hands of whites they the "blacks" have the infrastructure to combat the problem of white on black racism. What infrastructure? They have Black Lawyers, who will refuse to represent a mixed race person, but will not refuse to represent a black person. "Black racism" They have a Black Supreme Court justice in Justice Thomas, they have many Black trial court and Appellate Court judges, who will not through their case out simply because the plaintiff is of mixed race and not black. “Black racism” When the mixed race person goes to the "white" lawyer, they get refused representation under the "one drop" rule --not white enough. It's very calculated. I love my country; I just hate racism that goes on in the United States. Don't let it happen in Brazil, where you have 10s of millions of mixed race people.

Now, there are those who will say that I've mixed arguendo with fact, I don't agree. I think the statements are susceptible to objective verification. Notwithstanding the form, the theory is no less sound and the gravaman of the claims no less true.

The Passing of The Great Race; or, The racial basis of European history was an influential book of scientific racism written by the American eugenicist, lawyer, and amateur anthropologist Madison Grant in 1916. The book was very influential in United States during the interwar period, going through many reprintings and selling 16,000 copies in the United States alone by 1937. The book put forward Grant's theory of Nordic superiority and argued for a strong eugenics program in order to save the waning "Nordics" from "worthless race types".

Contents [hide]
1 Contents
2 Nordic theory
3 Reception and influence
4 References
5 External links



[edit] Contents
Grant's book was organized into two parts. The first part dealt with the basis of race as well as Grant's own stances on political issues of the day. These centered around the growing problem of immigration from Eastern and Southern Europe, areas that were underdeveloped and a source of lesser racial stock, as well as the expansion of America's Negro population. Grant outlined his claim that the upper classes of American society, as well as all Americans who could trace their ancestry back to Colonial times whether poor or rich, were being outbred by immigrant and inferior racial stocks. Grant reasoned that America has always been a Nordic country, consisting of Nordic immigrants from England, Scotland, and the Netherlands in Colonial times and of Nordic immigrants from Ireland and Germany in later times. The new immigrants, however, were of different races and were creating separate societies within America, and that soon the traditional Anglo-Saxon colonial stocks, as well as all Nordic stocks, would become extinct and America as it is known will cease to exist. The second part of the book dealt with the history of the three European races: Nordic, Alpine, and Mediterranean, as well as their physical and mental characteristics.


[edit] Nordic theory
Main article: Nordic theory

"Maximum Expansion of Alpines" — Map from '"Passing of the Great Race showing the "essentially peasant" Alpine migrations into Europe.
"Expansion of the Pre-Teutonic Nordics" — Early Nordic influence spreading over the continent.Grant's book was an elaborate work of racial hygiene detailing the "racial history" of the world. This early racialist work expositing Nordic theory was the first non-German book ordered to be reprinted by the Nazis when they took power in Germany, and Adolf Hitler wrote to Grant, "The book is my Bible". The book itself elaborated Grant's interpretation of contemporary anthropology and history, which he saw as revolving chiefly around the idea of "race", specifically the idea of the Nordic race — the subtitle of the book was The racial basis of European history. Grant also was an avid eugenicist, advocating the extermination of "undesirable" traits and "worthless race types" from the human gene pool:

A rigid system of selection through the elimination of those who are weak or unfit — in other words social failures — would solve the whole question in one hundred years, as well as enable us to get rid of the undesirables who crowd our jails, hospitals, and insane asylums. The individual himself can be nourished, educated and protected by the community during his lifetime, but the state through sterilization must see to it that his line stops with him, or else future generations will be cursed with an ever increasing load of misguided sentimentalism. This is a practical, merciful, and inevitable solution of the whole problem, and can be applied to an ever widening circle of social discards, beginning always with the criminal, the diseased, and the insane, and extending gradually to types which may be called weaklings rather than defectives, and perhaps ultimately to worthless race types.

Other messages in his work include recommendations to install a dictatorship and to segregate unfavorable races in ghettos, and that freedom is actually slavery and "inferior" races were actually longing to be dominated and instructed by "superior" ones. The book was immensely popular and went through multiple printings in the United States, and was translated into a number of other languages, notably German in 1925. By 1937 the book had sold 16,000 copies in the United States alone.

Nordic theory, in Grant's formulation, was similar to many 19th-century racial philosophies in that it divided the human species into primarily three distinct races: Caucasoids (based in Europe), Negroids (based in Africa), and Mongoloids (based in Asia). Nordic theory, however, further subdivided Caucasoids into three groups: Nordics (who inhabited Scandinavia, northern Germany, England, Scotland, Ireland, Holland, Flanders, parts of northern France, and northern Poland), Alpines (whose territory stretched from central France through Switzerland, northern Italy, Austria, southern Germany, southern Poland, central Russia, and into Central Asia), and Mediterraneans (who inhabited southern France, the Iberian peninsula, southern Italy, Greece, and parts of Wales).


"Present Distribution of the European Races" — Grant's vision of the status quo, with the Nordics in red, the Alpines in green, and the Mediterraneans in yellow.In Grant's view, Nordics probably evolved in a climate which "must have been such as to impose a rigid elimination of defectives through the agency of hard winters and the necessity of industry and foresight in providing the year's food, clothing, and shelter during the short summer. Such demands on energy, if long continued, would produce a strong, virile, and self-contained race which would inevitably overwhelm in battle nations whose weaker elements had not been purged by the conditions of an equally severe environment." The "Proto-Nordic" human, Grant reasoned, probably evolved in eastern Germany, Poland, and Russia, before migrating northward to Scandinavia.

The Nordic, in his theory, was "Homo europaeus, the white man par excellence. It is everywhere characterized by certain unique specializations, namely, blondness, wavy hair, blue eyes, fair skin, high, narrow and straight nose, which are associated with great stature, and a long skull, as well as with abundant head and body hair." Grant categorized the Alpines as being the lowest of the three European races, with the Nordics as the pinnacle of civilization.

The Nordics are, all over the world, a race of soldiers, sailors, adventurers, and explorers, but above all, of rulers, organizers, and aristocrats in sharp contrast to the essentially peasant character of the Alpines. Chivalry and knighthood, and their still surviving but greatly impaired counterparts, are peculiarly Nordic traits, and feudalism, class distinctions, and race pride among Europeans are traceable for the most part to the north. The mental characteristics of the Mediterranean race are well known, and this race, while inferior in bodily stamina to both the Nordic and the Alpine, is probably the superior of both, certainly of the Alpines, in intellectual attainments. In the field of art its superiority to both the other European races is unquestioned.

Grant allowed Mediterraneans to have abilities in art, as quoted above, but later in the text remarked that true Mediterranean achievements were only through admixture with Nordics:

This is the race that gave the world the great civilizations of Egypt, of Crete, of Phoenicia including Carthage, of Etruria and of Mycensean Greece. It gave us, when mixed and invigorated with Nordic elements, the most splendid of all civilizations, that of ancient Hellas, and the most enduring of political organizations, the Roman State. To what extent the Mediterranean race entered into the blood and civilization of Rome, it is now difficult to say, but the traditions of the Eternal City, its love of organization, of law and military efficiency, as well as the Roman ideals of family life, loyalty, and truth, point clearly to a Nordic rather than to a Mediterranean origin.

Grant's intellectualized ideas of Nordic and Caucasian superiority stem from ideas of Social Darwinism, a popular philosophy at the time that claimed that the fittest humans should enhance and perfect their genes through selective breeding while the unfit should not be permitted to breed at all, thus allowing the further evolution of the species. Originally conceived by the Englishman Herbert Spencer, this built on Darwin's theory of evolution, which included acknowledgement of differences in intelligence between individual humans as well as the different human races. Grant, as well as others, claimed that the Caucasian races, in addition to their obvious cultural superiority, respresent the highest pinnacle of evolution and are superior in intelligence as well.

According to Grant, Nordics were in a dire state in the modern world, where they were close to committing "race suicide" by being out-bred by more inferior stock. Nordic theory was strongly embraced by the racial hygiene movement in Germany in the early 1920s and 1930s; however, they typically used the term "Aryan" instead of "Nordic", though the principal Nazi ideologist, Alfred Rosenberg, preferred "Aryo-Nordic" or "Nordic-Atlantean". Stephen Jay Gould described The Passing of the Great Race as "The most influential tract of American scientific racism."

He additionally was involved in many debates over the discipline of anthropology against the anthropologist Franz Boas, whom he rep**ably would not shake hands with on account of the latter's being Jewish, while they both served (along with others) on the National Research Council Committee on Anthropology after the First World War. Grant represented the "hereditarian" branch of physical anthropology at the time, despite his relatively amateur status, and was staunchly opposed to and by Boas himself (and the latter's students), who advocated cultural anthropology.

Grant advocated restricted immigration to the United States through limiting immigration from East Asia and Southern Europe; he also advocated efforts to purify the American population though selective breeding. He served as the vice president of the Immigration Restriction League from 1922 to his death. Acting as an expert on world racial data, Grant also provided doctored statistics for the Immigration Act of 1924 to set the quotas on immigrants from certain European countries. Even after passing the statute, Grant continued to be irked that even a smattering of non-Nordics were allowed to immigrate to the country each year. He also assisted in the passing and prosecution of several anti-miscegenation laws, notably the Racial Integrity Act of 1924 in the state of Virginia, where he sought to codify his particular version of the "one-drop rule" into law.

Reception and influence
The book was well-received by 1920s American society. Grant instantly became an icon of popular culture, and the superiority of the Nordic Race became ingrained in the minds of both the scientific establishment and in society in general. Nordicist theory, however, had fallen out of favor in the United States by the mid 1930s. In Germany, on the other hand, it was at the peak of its power during the '30s due to the Nazis' obsession with the blonde, blue-eyed Aryan ideal. Hitler had read Grant's book and wrote a letter to him stating that it was "his Bible". The Nazis used Grant's ideas about eugenics to justuify compulsory sterilization, and used his ideas about Nordic superiority to justify programs such as Heinrich Himmler's Lebensborn Society, which existed to preserve typical Nordic genes, such as blonde hair and blue eyes, by sheltering blonde, blue-eyed women and subjecting them to breeding programs. All this was related to Grant's claim that the Nordic Race is in danger of being outbred by inferior racial stocks.

Grant became a part of popular culture in 1920s America, especially in New York. Grant's conservationism and fascination with zoological natural history made him very influential among the New York elite who agreed with his cause, most notably Theodore Roosevelt. Author F. Scott Fitzgerald featured a reference to Grant in The Great Gatsby. Tom Buchanan was reading a book called The Rise of the Colored Empires by "this man Goddard", a combination of Passing of the Great Race (Grant) and his colleague Lothrop Stoddard's The Rising Tide of Color Against White World Supremacy (Stoddard; Grant wrote the introduction to Stoddard's book). "Everybody ought to read it", the character explained, "The idea is if we don't look out the white race will be — will be utterly submerged. It's all scientific stuff; it's been proved."

At the postwar Nuremberg Trials, Grant's Passing of the Great Race was introduced into evidence by the defense of Karl Brandt, Hitler's personal physician and head of the Nazi euthanasia program, in order to justify the population policies of the Third Reich or at least indicate that they were not ideologically unique to Nazi Germany (it seemed to have had little effect, as Brandt was sentenced to death).

Even before the rise of Nazism, Grant's concept of "race" lost favor in the USA in the polarizing political climate after the first World War, including the Great Migration and the Depression. The influx of African-Americans into the Northern states in this time resulted in a "flattening" of racial categories into what eugenicist Lothrop Stoddard named as "bi-racialism" — an absolutist black/white distinction maintained by declaring all mixed-race people to be considered "black". This required the abandonment of Grant's gradations of "white" in favour of the one drop theory — which was embraced by white supremacists and black nationalists alike.

References
Guterl, Matthew Press. The Color of Race in America, 1900-1940. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2001.
Spiro, Jonathan P. "Patrician racist: The evolution of Madison Grant." Ph.D. diss., Dept. of History, University of California, Berkeley (2000).

[edit] External links
Excerpts from Passing of the Great Race used at the Nuremberg Trials
Passing of the Great Race (1921 ed.), available via Google Books
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passing_of_the_Great_Race"

Racism exists in fact, every where in the world. Specially in USA, where arabs, are arabs, latins are latins (new races they created) and the imposed media controls the worldwide media showing "how people should look like". Just take a look on the straighted smooth hairs of all afro-american famous ladies...they deny themselves their roots...!!
Do you know that 25% of prisioners of the world are in United State (2,200,000 prisioners), while US population represent just 5% of the world, But the shocking fact that more than the half of these prisioners are black, while the black people in United State represent just 12% of the total population (In Brazil more than 45% are not white) !!...So who is the racist now ??

One-drop theory
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from One-drop rule)
Jump to: navigation, search
The one-drop theory (or one-drop rule) is a historical colloquial term that holds that a person with any trace of sub-Saharan ancestry (however small or invisible) can not be considered white[1] and so unless said person has an alternative non-white ancestry they can claim, such as Native American, Asian, Arab, Australian aboriginal, they must be considered black.

This notion of invisible/intangible membership in a "racial" group has seldom been applied to people of Native American ancestry (see Race in the United States for details). The notion has been largely applied to those of black African ancestry. Langston Hughes wrote, "You see, unfortunately, I am not black. There are lots of different kinds of blood in our family. But here in the United States, the word 'Negro' is used to mean anyone who has any Negro blood at all in his veins. In Africa, the word is more pure. It means all Negro, therefore black. I am brown."[2]

During the Black Pride era of the Civil Rights Movement, the stigma associated with sub-Saharan ancestry was claimed as a socio-political advantage.[3] As the 2008 U.S. presidential election approached, Orlando Patterson acknowledged the change in a Time magazine essay on potential candidate Barack Obama's "black" identity:

This is the infamous one-drop rule, invented and imposed by white racists until the middle of the 20th century. As with so many other areas of ethno-racial relations, African Americans turned this racist doctrine to their own ends. What to racist whites was a stain of impurity became a badge of pride. More significantly, what for whites was a means of exclusion was transformed by blacks into a glorious principle of inclusion. The absurdity of defining someone as black who to all appearances was white was turned on its head by blacks who used the one-drop rule to enlarge both the black group and its leadership with light-skinned persons who, elsewhere in the Americas, would never dream of identifying with blacks.[4]

Contents [hide]
1 History
1.1 Beginnings
1.2 Legislation
2 Future
3 Reverse one-drop rule
4 Some results of the one-drop rule
5 One-drop rule in popular culture
6 One-drop of racial majority
7 Alternatives
7.1 Preponderance of ancestry
7.2 The Pencil test
8 Footnotes
9 See also
10 Further reading
11 External links

History

[edit] Beginnings
In the slave-holding South, racial membership was essentially the reverse of the 20th-century one-drop rule. A person of any visible European ancestry was presumed to be free.

The court cases Gobu v. Gobu, 1802 North Carolina,[5] Hudgins v. Wrights, 1806 Virginia,[6] and Adelle v. Beauregard, 1810 Louisiana[7] established the U.S. caselaw that if a person had any discernible European ancestry at all, that person was presumed to be free, and the burden was on the alleged slave owner to prove that he or she was legally a slave through matrilineal descent. This law was then followed in hundreds of court cases without exception until U.S. slavery was ended by the 13th Amendment.[8]


[edit] Legislation
The 1910–19 decade was the zenith of the Jim Crow era by most measures and also the decade when the one-drop rule was first adopted as written law. Tennessee led the parade by adopting a one-drop statute in 1910. It was followed by Louisiana the same year, Texas and Arkansas in 1911, Mississippi in 1917, North Carolina in 1923, Virginia in 1924, Alabama and Georgia in 1927, and Oklahoma in 1931. During this same period, Florida, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, and Utah retained their old blood fraction statutes de jure but amended these fractions (one-sixteenth, one-thirtysecond) to be equivalent to one-drop de facto.[9] By 1925, almost every state had a one-drop law on the books, or something equivalent. These were the laws that gave power to bureaucrats like Walter Plecker of Virginia,[10] Naomi Drake of Louisiana,[11] and similar people around the country — people whose mission was to hunt down any families of mixed ancestry and shove them to the Black side of the color line.

Before 1930, individuals of mixed European and African ancestry had usually been classed as mulattoes, sometimes as black and sometimes as white. The main purpose of the one-drop rule was to prevent interracial relationships and thus keep whites "pure." In 1924 Plecker wrote, "Two races as materially divergent as the white and negro, in morals, mental powers, and cultural fitness, cannot live in close contact without injury to the higher." In line with this concept was also the assumption that Blacks would somehow be "improved" through white intermixture.

Walter Plecker had been preceded by Madison Grant who had written in his book The Passing of the Great Race: "The cross between a white man and an Indian is an Indian; the cross between a white man and a negro is a negro; the cross between a white man and a Hindu is a Hindu; and the cross between any of the three European races and a Jew is a Jew."[12]

In the case of Native American admixture with whites the one-drop rule was extended only as far as those with one-quarter Indian blood due to what was known as the "Pocahontas exception." The "Pocahontas exception" existed because many influential Virginia families claimed descent from Pocahontas. To avoid classifying them as non-white the Virginia General Assembly declared that a person could be considered white long as they had no more than one-sixteenth Indian blood.

In 1967 the U.S. Supreme Court, in its ruling on the case of Loving v. Virginia, conclusively invalidated Plecker's Virginia Racial Integrity Act, along with its key component, the one-drop rule, as unconstitutional. Despite this holding, the one-drop theory is still influential in U.S. society. Multiracial individuals with visible mixed European and African and/or Native American ancestry are often still considered non-white, unless they explicitly declare themselves white or Anglo, and are typically identified instead as mixed-race, mulatto or mestizo, or Black or American Indian, for example. By contrast these standards are widely rejected by America's Latino community, the majority of whom are of mixed ancestry, but for whom their Latino cultural heritage is more important to their ethnic identities than "race." The one-drop rule is not generally applied to Latinos of mixed origin or to Arab-Americans.

Future
There are different ways of trying to assess the future of the one-drop rule in the United States. Some of them include how interracial parents label their children on the decennial U.S. census, scholarly opinions, and trends in affirmative action court cases.[13]

From Reconstruction until about 1930, the children of black/white interracial parents and of mulatto parents were usually identified as mulatto. It is becoming increasingly common for people to identify themselves as multi-racial, mulatto, or mixed rather than as black or white. That the fraction of mixed children census-labeled as solely black dropped from 62% in 1990 to 31% in 2000 (when multiple "races" were first allowed) suggests that the one-drop theory and denying one's European ancestry is no longer accepted the way it used to be.

Despite the one-drop rule being illegal (ever since the U.S. Supreme Court in 1967 overturned the Virginia Racial Integrity Act), as recently as 1986, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the ODR by refusing to hear a case against Louisiana’s "racial" classification criteria as applied to Susie Phipps (479 U.S. 1002). In addition, several authors and journalists have found it very profitable to "out" as black famous historical mulattoes and whites, who were regarded as white in their society, who self-identified as such, and who were culturally European-American, merely because they acknowledged having (often slight) African ancestry (Anatole Boyard, Patrick Francis Healy, Michael Morris Healy, Jr., Sir Peter Ustinov, Calvin Clark Davis, John James Audubon, Mother Henriette Delille — a Louisiana Creole).

Many scholars publishing on this topic today (including Naomi Zack, Neil Gotanda, Michael L. Blakey, Julie C. Lythcott-Haims, Christine Hickman, David A. Hollinger, Thomas E. Skidmore, G. Reginald Daniel, F. James Davis, Joe R. Feagin, Ian F. Haney-Lopez, Barbara Fields, Dinesh D'Souza, Joel Williamson, Mary C. Waters, Debra J. Dickerson) affirm that the one-drop rule is still strong in American popular culture. Affirmative action court cases on the other hand (when an apparently white person claims invisible Black ancestry and claims federal entitlements and/or EEOC enforcement) are mixed. In some cases, such as 1985 Boston firefighters Philip and Paul Malone, courts have held that such claimants are guilty of "racial fraud" despite their claim of a Black grandparent. In other instances, such as the 1988 Denver case of schoolteacher Mary Walker — a person of fair complexion, green eyes, light brown hair, and no documented Black ancestry — courts have ordered employers to accept claimants as Black for EEOC purposes. And other claimants, such as 1997 Detroit businessman Mostafa Hefny, a Black-looking immigrant actually from Africa (Egypt), are denied benefits because North Africans are considered to be White.


[edit] Reverse one-drop rule
Not only does the one-drop rule not apply outside of America, but it often applies in reverse. Just as anyone with any physically recognizable sub-Saharan ancestry can claim to be Black in America, anyone with any recognizable Caucasian ancestry is considered White in Latin America. Even individual with enough African ancestry to make them as dark as Sidney Poitier can pass for White if they appear to have at least one physically visible Caucasian trait such as straight hair or narrow facial features. According to Jose Neinstein, a native white Brazilian and executive director of the Brazilian-American Cultural Institute in Washington, 'in America, "if you are not quite white, then you are black." But in Brazil, "If you are not quite black, then you are white."' Neinstein recalls talking with a man of Poitier's complexion when in Brazil: "We were discussing ethnicity, and I asked him, 'What do you think about this from your perspective as a black man?' He turned his head to me and said, 'I'm not black,' . . . It simply paralyzed me. I couldn't ask another question."[14]


[edit] Some results of the one-drop rule

Some results of the one-drop rule
Mainly because of the one-drop rule there are many pale-skinned people that are considered black. In many of these instances the person can actually be more white than black, but be considered black. There are examples of how this could happen through the generations. During slavery, there could have been a mulatto person, who because of the one-drop rule, was considered black. If they then had a child with a white person, the child would have been considered one-quarter black, but still considered black. There are plenty of people through American history that have been more Caucasian than sub-Saharan (Black) but have been generally, or often, considered black. Examples of this would include Sally Hemings and G.K. Butterfield. However these people are the exception, not the rule. The average person who self-identifies as black in America has 83% of their ancestors from sub-Saharan Africa. Only 10% of Americans who self-identify as black are less than 50% sub-Saharan in ancestry, and thus can not be considered black at the genetic level.[15]

Another consequence of the one-drop rule is that multiracial children of Black and White couples are less likely to self-identify as White as children of Asian and White couples.[16]


[edit] One-drop rule in popular culture

Ceci, where did you get the figure (i.e., the citation) that 25% of all prisoners are in the U.S.? I am not saying you must be wrong, I just want to see your source. And Insight, you have said an awful lot and I will need some time to digest this, BUT ONLY
75,000 BLACKS IN THE U.S. HAVE MIXED ANCESTRY? WHAT? Aside from the fact 80%
of people who call themselves black here have at least one white or Indian ancestor, I believe there are 300,000 marriages between blacks and whites (though I would need to check that figure) but only 75,000 mixed folks?

And Ceci, black American ladies are not the only women who try to alter their appearance. White women here dye their hair, get hair extensions, nose jobs, breast jobs, lip jobs, botox treatments, sun tans......once again we are making reckless comments that can easily be taken out of context. And women in Brazil NEVER alter their appearance? Oh yes, certainly true. And Insight, what "general scorn in the street" by blacks where the White blood is apparent. My natural color is almost as white as that of George Bush. Only the Southern California sun has browned my skin
slightly, and only in a handful of situations in my life have I felt scorn from other blacks. And, oh never mind......I will be back. Good grief.

One-drop rule in popular culture
Someone having literally one drop of black blood in him is a plot point in Show Boat.
In the Family Guy episode Peter Griffin: Husband, Father...Brother?, Peter discovers that he has a black ancestor from slave days. Despite being no more than one-sixteenth black, probably even less, he describes himself as black throughout the episode and attends events with a primarily African American audience.

[edit] One-drop of racial majority
The Caucasian Achievement and Recognition Scholarship only required applicants to be 25% Caucasian, mirroring "partial-bloodedness" requirements for minority scholarships.


[edit] Alternatives

[edit] Preponderance of ancestry
Increasing the one-drop rule and the reverse one-drop rule are being replaced by a more scientific methodology of deciding who is black and white. Rather than arbitrarily deciding that one drop of black blood makes one black or one drop of white blood makes one white, a persons race is increasingly being defined in terms of where most of their ancestors come from. Debra Dickerson writes that "easily one-third of blacks have white DNA" she wonders why, in light of this, so much of the focus on tracing ancestry in the black community has focused on finding a link back to a region in Africa. She holds that in ignoring their white ancestors African Americans are denying their fully articulated multi-racial identities.[17]


According to J. Phillipe Rushton who holds that gaps in IQ scores between races represent genetic differences between these races.:

Yes, to a certain extent all the races blend into each other. That is true in any biological classification system. However, most people can be clearly identified with one race or another. In both everyday life and evolutionary biology, a "Black" is anyone most of whose ancestors were born in sub-Saharan Africa. A "White" is anyone most of whose ancestors were born in Europe. And an "Asian" is anyone most of whose ancestors were born in East Asia. Modern DNA studies give pretty much the same results.