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Saving the Planet Is the World's Duty. Not Brazil's Alone PDF Print E-mail
Written by Clara Angelica Porto   
Tuesday, 20 March 2007 12:34

Cover of January 2007 issue of National Geographic MagazineThe January 7 issue of National Geographic features the Amazon as its cover story. A very hard approach to the big forest's issue. The tone of the article is about what is left of the rainforest, calling the readers' attention to the devastation of the Amazon forest. As a matter of fact this is all the story does, it shows all the negative aspects, without a word on anything positive going on or even all the rich and wonderful things of the area.

The magazine points to economic factors as the main cause for the devastation of the forest and it charges the Brazilian government with responsibility, on a level of predatory complicity. Not a word on other aspects of the Brazilian economy such as the world's demand for Brazilian exports like soy, beef and wood, a lot of which comes precisely from the Amazon.

The US alone buy 50% of Brazilian wood sold for export. Too bad important magazines publish such biased stories. Too bad because what is published by this kind of magazine is taken very seriously by the American public and many will be led into thinking, after reading this particular story, that Brazil is not capable of managing its important natural wealth.

Which is not an absolute truth. Brazil is a country with lots of problems, but it is also a responsible country, with sovereignty. It is true that Brazil needs to pay closer attention not only to the Amazon, but to global warming as well.

And this is true not only for Brazil, but it applies to all countries in the world. It is dangerous negligence, and unfortunately this is what we are witnessing. The entire planet has to pay closer attention to the environment. and this is not a Brazilian duty alone.

The Amazon belongs to Brazil and it is Brazil's responsibility, as its primary caretaker, to make sure that things are done in a proper way in the area, preserving the environment. But it does bring about an uncomfortable feeling when great publications write tendentious stories about the rich forest, which has generated so much wealth and which will keep doing so.

When a subject like the Amazon comes up, one can never be too careful. There is too much at stake and maybe there are too many eyes longing from a distance in hope to find a way to grab a piece of that rich cake or even to claim possession.

The Amazon belongs to the planet first thing, but in this world of possessions and borders, all officially established by men, it belongs to Brazil, the South American giant.

Mistakes have been made and they should be corrected, we all know that. It is true that under the present government alone there has been 85,000 km² of forest devastation and this is serious business. It is also known that Brazil is today, like many other major countries, a big cause of pollution in the world. This is not good and the issue needs to be approached more seriously.

The recent development plan (PAC) launched by President Lula in the beginning of his new term, lacks a more assertive and clear approach to the environment issue. The PAC needs to motivate entrepreneurs, because it counts on private initiative for investments, limiting public money to infrastructure under its direct responsibility.

The money is there, both the government and the big companies have plenty. But as today's fourth bigger contributor to global warming, thanks to burning and devastating the forest, Brazil needs to include in the plan a model that seeks progress and growth with all due respect to nature, and with emphasis on the preservation of the Amazon forest, and how to avoid, prevent or lessen the impact of the severe droughts supposed to affect the country by 2070, according to scientists.

It really is a big challenge, a whole new revolution without which there will be very little left of the human kind. Talking ecology is no longer sophisticated talk, ecology now, more than ever, is politics, the most important kind, because it is politics of human survival on earth.

How to use natural resources; how not to lose competitivity; how to use fuels without so much pollution; how to open new roads; how to build new hydro-electric plants; how to do it all while preserving the environment, all at the same time? And what is everybody doing about it? What is Brazil doing about it? How is it planning to protect the Amazon forest?

If the development plan did not approach the subject in a satisfactory manner, the Minister of Environment Protection, Marina Silva, said during a speech at IBGE (Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics) that environment preservation must be part of any development plan and that this is the time when Brazil has to make important decisions on what it wants for the Amazon.

She was emphatic, according to the Brazilian press, when she affirmed that fighting global warming must be part of all development and growth. This is good news.

During the upcoming G-8 meeting in July the environment is one of the major themes. An NGO in Brazil convinced banks to tie financing of big projects to environment safe rules. This is very good news.

Brazilian artists and celebrities are gathering signatures for a document to be presented to President Lula, even a website has been created. More good news.

Everybody should get involved because saving the planet is a subject that belongs to all of us. Let's do what we can - without crossing the borders, please.

Clara Angelica Porto is a Brazilian bilingual journalist living in New York.  She went to school in Brazil and at the University of Wisconsin in Madison.  Clara is presently working as the English writer for The Brasilians, a monthly newspaper in Manhattan.  Comments welcome at This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

Comments (216)Add Comment
Have some faith in Brazilian rationality.
written by aes, March 20, 2007
By all means save the planet. Its Brazil's forest if it wants to chop it down and make a golf course out of it it is its perrogative. If it wants to sell every stick of timber it is its perrogative. I think there is more money to be made in ecco tourism, and that golf is essentially immoral, it is Brazils right to completely sell every tree there and turn Brazil into a giant cattle farm. Brazil is about beauty, not rape. I dont think Brazil has any interest in raping the Amazon only because it is such a beautiful asset as Brazilian as Samba, black beans and rice. Fear sells and National Geographic is a business. And BTY I dont think man has anything to do with global warming, it is a natural cycle millions of years old. Global warming is a business, big business, fear motivated and sold by vested interests.
Thank you
written by M.A., March 20, 2007
Excellent article. Yes, we should all be aware that we can all be part of keeping our planet presenteable for the upcoming generations. And, we should respect the borders. And although I agree that fear sells and there is a lot of that going on, keeping what is left of the world's forests is not part of the fear market. And Brazil should do better by the Amazon and thank God there are people in Brazil heading in the right direction.
Thank you for a very wonderful article.
the global warming red herring
written by mafagafo, March 20, 2007
Yes, global average temperature is climbing. Yes, CO2 is up 33% in the air, the highest it is supposed to have been -- ever. However, the role of man-made CO2 in global warming has been overblown. Nature is a system in equilibrium and there are balancing feedbacks that are just beginning to be studied, such as the Iris Theory. Further, the air in the southern hemisphere mixes very little with the air in the northern hemisphere. The Amazon region is not the world's lungs. Lots of hype, but who would expect the media (including NG), to clarify anything anyway? What NG wants is hype, controversy, advocacy journalism. There is precious little free press today.
Mirror Mirror on the Wall
written by Costinha, March 20, 2007
Who is the most evil of us all ?

That's easy... George W. Bush! Even a caveman knows it...
...
written by Mark Santos, March 20, 2007
Good article with the exception of the data of global warming.
When you say Brasil is the fourth greatest contributor to global warming that has no scienticic basis.
SERIOUS AND RESPECTED scientists (not those hired by Al Gored) have not come to a definitive conclusion about global warming.
It is not yet totally understood. The only reliable data points strongly to a correlation between spikes of sun activity and GW.
And that's it, that is the only scientificly PROVEN indication of it's cause. Everything else is overhyped JUNK SCIENCE.
This latest campaign about GW is not the first either. 20 years ago some of the same people claimed we'd all be living in a big hot desert by now. So now they change their prognostic. It will all happen in 2070. RUBBISH!
...
written by Paul S., March 20, 2007
The best part of the article is when it asks for respect of the borders. I think the author hit the spot right there. Because there is and there will be a lot of talk about the Amazon, global warming and Brazil not doing the right thing, coming from people with a big evil eye dying to possess the Amazon forest and all its riches...
OH well.
written by Groan, March 20, 2007
such as the Iris Theory.


SERIOUS AND RESPECTED scientists


Everything else is overhyped JUNK SCIENCE.


Groan….more contenders for the flat earth society awards I see.

I don’t think global warming is being overblown; it’s the dye-hards from the right that are creating the controversy, obfuscating the facts and demonizing those that care. Believe it or not, climate change is NOT some huge UN international conspiracy to divert funds to poor nations from wealthy nations, no matter what you see on FOX news.

Regarding your IRIS theory, every new theory to hit the press attempting to debunk global warming lasts no longer than a bag of crisps at midnight frat party with bongs. It serves its purpose for the moment, but later it proves to be of little substance. You want junk science? Look to those crying that global warming is a farse.

Global warming has turned out to be one of the most intensely studied environmental phenomena the planet has ever known. There are more peer reviewed papers, vetted studies and debated reviews on this particular study that anything else from atmospheric sciences.

The scientists involved, like those from the Hadley Centre, NASA, the British Antarctica Survey to name a mere few, are the most credentialed scientists (some who really are rocket scientists) and climatologists around. And, yes, although they’ll not say there is a 100% direct correlation between anthropogenic carbon emissions and a global mean temperature increase (what scientist would?), they will agree that the probability this is happening is far too great to be ignored.

So you either act or you don’t.

The real chicken littles bumbling about are those industry shrills (and their brain dead, Fox news fed sycophants) that scream the planet will nose dive into economic chaos if we so even think about alternative energy sources.

I’m an old guy and I don’t particularly care what happens to this planet, I just hate ignorance and those lone internet warriors that think they have all the answers and believe THEIR knowledge is more profound than that of the world’s brightest. You keep on taking your marching orders from Fred Singer, right wing think tanks and the House of Saud, I’ll keep tuned into NASA.

20 years ago some of the same people claimed we'd all be living in a big hot desert by now.


Desertification is still a huge probablem for many nations, including Brazil. And nobody said the world would be a dust bowl 20 years ago, where did you get that from? Oral Roberts?

Stop the bulls**t against Brazil's Amazon forest!!!
written by Stop the bulls**t, March 20, 2007
The Brazilian Amazon forest is Brazilian; it will always be. When Hitler wanted to invade Britain, he also, had a nobel motive: bring the anglo-saxon cousins (germanic tribes) to the Reich. But, as Churchil said: "we shoul fight in the beaches, etc...". So we will fight: the Amazon forest is Brazilian. Our property. We shall fight to the last man and we will sustain.

NOW STOP THE BULLs**t ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING... WATCH THE TRUTH:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4520665474899458831
...
written by NOW STOP THE BULLs**t ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING... WATCH THE TRUTH:, March 20, 2007
...
written by Groan, March 20, 2007
the Amazon forest is Brazilian.


65% of the Amazon forest is Brazilian dunghead, the rest is dividied amongst another 8 counties. Take a geography course.
NOW STOP THE BULLs**t ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING
written by Groan, March 20, 2007
Thanks for the link.. I’ve read a lot about this programme, but haven’t seen it given my geography - ya gotta love the digital world. I’ll watch the video, but after all the back-peddling by the producers and the channel that commissioned the video ALEADY, I wouldn’t place too much faith in the production. Even one of the scientists interviewed has complained about being misrepresented. The video is already being considered the LOOSECHANGE of the global warming debate videos. But I’ll spend an hour watching it. Why not?

Like I said, it is a bag of crisps….. Here today...... gone in five minutes.
GLOBAL FOAMING
written by u.s. guest, March 20, 2007
The Propaganda Of Idiots...
Saving the Planet Is the World's Duty. Not Brazil's Alone ????????????
written by ch.c., March 20, 2007
Has Brazil been asked to help save the USA, the EU, Asia.Middle East, Africa ????????????????????????????????????

I just remind you that as usual Brazil expects OTHERS to pay for the Brazilian Deforestation of the Amazon through...... the carbon credits programs !!!!!!

Is that not incredible...but true ?????

I agree on the other hand that the Brazilian Amazon belong to Brazilians and you are free to do whatever you want with it....but then stop begging for the carbon credits !
And if other countries wish to have their say for the Amazon, then I also agree must PARTICIPATE.....financially !!!!!

Simple....in my view !
To Groan: you are an obsessed.
written by NOW STOP THE BULLs**t ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING... WATCH THE TRUTH:, March 20, 2007
I the beggining of my text I wrote: "The Brazilian Amazon forest is Brazilian." You then should have concluded what I meant by the "Amazon forest is Brazilian" based on the context. Perhaps you have no idea of what context means as you must have the mind excessively preoccupied with a single emotion or topic: to destroy Brazil and Brazilian's rep**ation as the majority of people who write comments in this web site do. You are obsessed. Please take a course on text interpretation then your comments might be of some value.

By the way, the greater part of the Amazon forest, 62%, is located in Brazil, and the remaining 38%, in other countries. The Forest embraces 25% South America area, reaching nine countries: Brazil, French Guyana, Suriname, Guyana, Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and Bolivia.

In Brazil, the Amazon RainForest is called Legal Amazon, and embraces about 60% of the Brazilian territory, spreading over the following states: Acre, Amazonas, Pará, Rondônia, Roraima, Tocantins, west of Maranhão and north of Mato Grosso. This area is equivalent to a half of the European continent, with an area of 5,026,552 km2, with an estimated population (in 1990) of 17,193,446 inhabitants. It's ours!
...
written by Groan, March 20, 2007
From:NOW STOP THE BULLs**t ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING... WATCH THE TRUTH
To Groan: you are an obsessed.


Spreakky Engrish Prease!!!!!! Given your grasp of English, I´d bet my right nut you understood only 20% of that documentary.

From u.s. guest
(what a surprise)
The Propaganda Of Idiots...


A true republican rebuttal. I´m sorry, I just don´t have the mental capacity to deal with such as stunning and awe-inspiraing post. Please submit your ideas to NOAA. I´m sure you can set them on the right path. Global Foaming? Wow, simlpy brilliant. smilies/cry.gif
Stop the bulls**t....the Amazon is Brazilian ???? Hmmmmm....
written by ch.c., March 20, 2007
1) To what basic school did you go ????? The Amazon covers part of several countries.....IDIOT !!!!! Typically Brazilian !!!! Laugh...laugh...laugh !!!!

2) I agree that the Brazilian part of theAamazon is Brazilian...by definition...and that you are free to do what you want with it !
But then....why do you expect as Lula does, that foreigners (of course) must participate financially to what belongs to you ?????

Does Brazil participate financially to preserve what is left of forests in the EU, USA, Middle East, China, Asia....or even Africa ???????

Yessssss Brazilians are against foreign countries subsidizes, but Brazilians are a bunch of perpetual BEGGARS CONSTANTLY BEGGING FOR .......SUBSIDIZES
FROM MORE SUCCESSFUL COUNTRIES !!!!!!!!

Please be clear and precise....in your answers !!!!!

Thus your double game, one more time, is just....AS USUAL !!!!!!!

AND CONSTANTLY YOU CHEAT EVERYONE OF YOUR TRADING PARTNER !!!!! BRAZIL WANTS EVERYTHING FROM OTHERS BUT PROVIDE NOTHING IN RETURN.
THAT IS IN YOUR BLOOD AND GENES. RECIPROCITY IS NOT EVEN IN YOUR DICTIONARY OR EDUCATION AND EVEN LESS IN YOUR UNDERSTANDING !!!!


YESSSS....YOU ARE BORN LOSERS and will remain losers just as you have been for the last....500 years !!!

Always 1 century backward ! Dont you cut 40 % of your sugar cane fields...MANUALLY LIKE THEY DID 100 YEARS AGO ? YESSSSSSS...... YOU DO !
AND THE MECHANICAL HARVESTERS ARE.....FOREIGN....ANYWAY !!!!



LAUGH......LAUGH...LAUGH.....
Even NOAA has 1 or 2 USEFULL IDIOTS
written by u.s. guest, March 20, 2007
Give them a grant , a grand, and a dozen dancing whores and they,ll sing any tune you want...... As quoted by Karl Marx.... Or was it The Marx Brouthers ?.....
"GLOBAL FOAMING" APPEARS ON BROADWAY THEATER
written by u.s. guest, March 20, 2007
The comedy" Global Foaming " opens today to disapointing attendance...a lack of interest in the story of a naive young college student away from mummy for the first time , sets out on a beer fueled cross continent binge ...
...
written by Mark Santos, March 20, 2007
Little groin wrote:
"And, yes, although they’ll not say there is a 100% direct correlation between anthropogenic carbon emissions and a global mean temperature increase (what scientist would?), they will agree that the probability this is happening is far too great to be ignored. "

OF COURSE they will not say that! You know why? Because they'll be stating something that is not scientifically proven. You cannot impose life altering changes worldwide based on a obscure agenda backed by NO REAL PROVEN facts. The only way this propaganda will disseminate is when gullible people like you parrot what they hear without giving it any thought or putting a minimal effort to research by yourself.
There's no doubt there is global warming. There ISN'T HOWEVER NO SOLID SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to prove it as caused by human activities.
No media campaign, no Al Goreds of the world will change that.
By the way the desertification of Brasil was first verified in the 19th century, when there were hardly any human produced CO2. Back to history classes for you! But then again what should we expect...
...
written by Groan, March 21, 2007
You cannot impose life altering changes worldwide based on a (sic) obscure agenda backed by NO REAL PROVEN facts.


MY lord you flat Earth Society Members are thick. No real proven facts? We’re talking 150 years of intensely studied empirical data, and over 400,000 years of proxy data. Just the IPCC report alone was written and vetted by more than 3,000 climatologists/scientists. Their conclusions are in black and white: global warming is "very likely" – meaning an at least 90 per cent certainty – caused by human activity. Pronto. If you want to dither and waste time over the remaining 10% be my guest, but 90% is a higher percentage than your chances of getting lung cancer from smoking. Care to lite up?

And what "OBSURE agenda" is there my little conspiratorial theorist? To hand off democracies to the commies? To screw the rich? What little "obscure agenda" do you think is leading scientists the world (from first world and third world nations) over to lie to the public? This should be interesting.

The only way this propaganda will disseminate is when gullible people like you parrot what they hear without giving it any thought or putting a minimal effort to research by yourself.


Parrot what I hear? Unlike YOU? Sorry sunshine, I took an interest in this subject WELL over a decade ago and have kept well informed to the science’s progress. You, my little scholastic dilettante appear to be the newest spoon-fed political sycophant, not me.

There's no doubt there is global warming. There ISN'T HOWEVER NO SOLID SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to prove it as caused by human activities.


Well, there is a step in the right direction because only a couple of years ago simplistic minds like yours, and Bushes et.al, denied that global warming was even a problem. Even the oil companies can’t deny it today, (but still like to fund the ney-sayers behind closed doors). Fred Singer anyone? Hmmmm... Buller???

You’ve moved forward, but are still in denial over the cause. The same cycle repeats itself, just like with tobacco, CFCs, sulfur dioxide etc. You’ll eventually see the science through the rhetoric. But like I stated above, most scientists claim there is a 90% certainty that the RAPID rise in the global mean temperature is due to anthropogenic causes. So what do we do about it? If you don´t like the Kyoto Protocol, fine, I don´t either. But don´t confuse a political tool with the actual science.

No media campaign, no Al Goreds of the world will change that.


Climate change has been an intensely studied subject for over 20 years. Given your watershed moment came last year because of a Hollywood documentary proves you are in way to deep for your own intellectual abilities.

By the way the desertification of Brazil was first verified in the 19th century, when there were hardly any human produced CO2.


I never said it was caused by CC. It will be greatly affect by GW though, but if the truth be told desertification comes from poor use of the lands (imagine this in Brazil? Who’d have thunk it). That’s ecology 101. The fact you couldn’t comprehend my simple point above leads me to the conclusion that a science as complicated as global warming will be forever out of your grasp as well.

Enjoy your stupidity; it came free courtesy of eating lead paint chips as a child. But don’t forget, 30 years go there were industry deniers about lead in paint, too. And asbestos, and factory-trawler fishing; and clear cut logging; and DDT; and chlorofluorocarbons; and bioaccumulative heavy metals; and acid rain and well, you get the drift…… or maybe not.

Here, I’ll toss you a bone so you can toughen up those mylin sheathes insulating your loosley firing synapses. Have a looksy at the site REALCLIMATE, look to the authors and their bio’s, and then read on. Its about the science. It´s not NGOs screaming "the end is near", nor rabid republicans frothing at the mouth threatening that our economies will be crushed if we even contemplate tackling the issue….. It´s tone is moderate, the science politely debated and it’s conclusions, well, YOU decide.

http://www.realclimate.org/

The comedy" Global Foaming " opens today to disapointing attendance...a lack of interest in the story of a naive young college student away from mummy for the first time , sets out on a beer fueled cross continent binge ...


Politely rude. Briskly vague. Firmly uninformative. Thank you.
...
written by Mark Santos, March 21, 2007
We’re talking 150 years of intensely studied empirical data, and over 400,000 years of proxy data.

And that data points to periods of warming and cooling independent of human activity.

Just the IPCC report alone was written and vetted by more than 3,000 climatologists/scientists.

Think about what you said...3000 people wrote this report? When are you going to finish reading it? Let me guess ...in 2070?
Look you and I know you can order any scientific research to any desired results you want. If you don't believe that I have a nice bridge I wan to sell to you.


The same cycle repeats itself, just like with tobacco, CFCs, sulfur dioxide etc

Good think you brought CFCs up. You don't hear much about it anymore. In the 90's there was a big media push around CFCs (not unlike today with CO2). One of the major culprit was suposedly freon gas. So there was a big psh to outlaw it. LAw was passed, rules enforced. People went to jail, cars and home appliances had price increases.
And...coincidence of coincidences, the patent on reon was about to expire. That meant it was about to become public domain and anybody would be able to produce it reducing it's cost. That meant Dupont Corporation, who held the patent, was about to lose one of it' largest cash cows. Then miracle of miracles, Dupont was ready to save us all with a new gas , r34, that they had already and thankfully developed to replace freon. Thank goodness (and enviromental wackos like yourself) we could keep our ACs and Dupont had another few decades of patented gas sales to infalte it's revenues. Whew!!!... that was close.

I just hate ignorance and those lone internet warriors that think they have all the answers and believe THEIR knowledge is more profound than that of the world’s brightest

Sorry I didn't realize how hard it must be for you to live hating yourself! smilies/wink.gif
...
written by Groan, March 21, 2007
And that data points to periods of warming and cooling independent of human activity.


That data points to a spike over the last 150 years directly correlated to a growth in CO2. True, millions of years ago the planet may have been hotter (we also had dinosaurs), but we didn’t have 6, pushing 7 billion people to feel or contribute to the effects. Therein lies the rub.

Think about what you said...3000 people wrote this report? When are you going to finish reading it? Let me guess ...in 2070?


That was lame, but expected from someone on the loosing end of a discussion.

Look you and I know you can order any scientific research to any desired results you want. If you don't believe that I have a nice bridge I wan to sell to you.


What’s that suppose to mean? Do us all a favour then and and toss out your subscription to New Scientist (I’m joking, I’m sure you’ve not even flipped through one of those magazines, you prefer TRIP right?). Science is actually pretty straight forward when you know how to read it, know the backgrounds of scientists and their institutions, and track where the funding comes from, and read the peer reviews and critiques. Easy Peasy. Just because you’re insecure in thinking you are being manipulated by anyone who has a few letters after their name, and think that the scientific community comprises little more than puppets with agendas, doesn’t mean its true.

Good think you brought CFCs up.


Sure is. It is the PERFECT example. It was a scientific theory; there was an intense debate about what to do; there were your classic deniers claiming that eliminating or phasing out CFCs would mean an end to certain economies, and losses in jobs; The Montreal Protocol PROVED that an international agreement could be achieved and worked; since then, new technologies have emerged, creating MORE jobs (greenfreeze), and holes in the Ozone layer are getting much smaller, hence, there is no need to really rabbit on about it now, is there?

Sorry I didn't realize how hard it must be for you to live hating yourself!


Hope that knee didn’t jerk you too hard during THAT response. Sheesh.
Murphy's Law
written by Professor, March 21, 2007
I myself find it amazing that a lot of people act as if humankind is so technologically advanced that we could solve such a global weather problem. How is it that we now assume it is in our power that we might manipulate Mother Nature. This is all just chasing after the wind. In likelihood if we reorganized the industrial world before we could see the benefits we would be annihilated by a meteor. We would be better off to convert as soon as possible to cleaner fuel sources, so that at least we could breathe while figuring out that we are helpless.
Et al: Turns out you know nothing about anything. 'The Universe for dummies!' http://richarddawkins.net/article,718,n,n
written by aes, March 21, 2007


OUT THERE By: Richard Panek
Three days after learning that he won the 2006 Nobel Prize in Physics, George Smoot was talking about the universe. Sitting across from him in his office at the University of California, Berkeley, was Saul Perlmutter, a fellow cosmologist and a probable future Nobelist in Physics himself. Bearded, booming, eyes pinwheeling from adrenaline and lack of sleep, Smoot leaned back in his chair. Perlmutter, onetime acolyte, longtime colleague, now heir apparent, leaned forward in his.

"Time and time again," Smoot shouted, "the universe has turned out to be really simple."

Perlmutter nodded eagerly. "It's like, why are we able to understand the universe at our level?"

"Right. Exactly. It's a universe for beginners! 'The Universe for Dummies'!"


http://richarddawkins.net/article,718,n,n

Killer Science
written by aes, March 21, 2007
The elimination of DDT has killed millions of people from death by malaria. DDT was the most effective agent for killing malaria bearing mosquitos. We do more harm than good, in our doing good.
Mirror Mirror in the dirty Brazilian pothole......
written by ch.c., March 21, 2007
who is the cheapest Brazilian cow ?
Costhinha....Costhina....Costinha
Cant you hear all the brazilians singing your name ?
Who will save human beings?
written by Luca , Rome, March 21, 2007
Football, telenovelas, samba...

Rio de Janeiro: since 1st February, 2007

429 killed
263 wounded
UN control of North west Brazil. We cannot all f**k up the world's future for Brazilian governmet madness
written by Luca , Rome, March 21, 2007
The Amazon forest is the earth's lungs, it should be internationalized as the artic continent and run by a UN agency. We can't just watch as a country fails to act or, worse, willingly cashes on the decrease of the world's oxygen. This is a lot worse than Iran and North Korea's threat combined. If Brazil fails to act properly the amazon forest should be taken away from its territory and run and patrolled by a UN agency.
...
written by Luca , Rome, March 21, 2007
It's just scary that our ability of human beings all over the world to breathe in the future relies on the willingness of such a shallow football-party-obsessed people to prevent the destruction of the rain forest!
Global warming...... Even the oil companies can’t deny it today ??????
written by ch.c., March 21, 2007
Thus OPEC and other oil producing nations, not the oil companies, must pay for the damages done to planet earth !!!!!!!
Are they not responsible for what they produce...as you may suggest when naming the oil companies ?
Because by now most nations have nationalized their oil industry. They are the owners ! Correct ?

Smile
Re Luca, Rome
written by aes, March 21, 2007
You and Mussolini will dictate in your infinite knowledge and geo political erudition, 'that the Amazon should be internationalized and run by a UN agency'. Like the 'oil for food program', rife with corruption, graft and greed. The UN is obsolete and your perception of Brazil is fatuous.
NOW STOP THE BULLs**t ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING... WATCH THE LIES
written by Dandruff, March 21, 2007
Two words "f**k you" do your research nutty becasue you don't have a clue?
On Martin Durkin the director

"Martin Durkin has quite a track record in this kind of programme. George Monbiot writes about him here, pointing to his some of his previous output including a report on how silicone implants reduce the risk of breast cancer (initially proposed to the BBC’s Horizon but dropped when the commissioned researcher contradicted the claims, then shown by Channel 4), a series (again for Channel 4) called Against Nature, which essentially argued that environmentalists were proto-Nazis out to control the world (which misrepresented the views of many of those interviewed, for which Channel 4 was forced to apologise) and a programme (once again, Channel 4) on genetically-modified foodstuffs which one of the participants described as having “rendered great disservice to science generally and to the scientific debate on GM-food particularly“. For someone with no scientific background, one has to wonder how Martin Durkin keeps being commissioned for programmes like these. Or, as Private Eye wrote at the time “What does Channel 4 do with programme makers condemned by the TV watchdog,the Independent Television Commission (ITC), for using underhand editing techniques? The answer is, er, hire them to make another programme.”
http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2007/03/04/swindlewatch-07/
...
written by Groan, March 21, 2007
Even the oil companies can’t deny it today ??????


Yup... but surprisingly, 16 year old kids on their mom's computer can.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,12374,912530,00.html
Shell chief delivers global warming warning to Bush in his own back yard


And this was three years ago.... Before that...that..... that..... FILM by Al Gore.

The Amazon forest is the earth's lungs


Not really, oceans produce more oxygen. But forests are carbon sinks, and the destruction of them contributes to about 25% of global carbon emmissions.

it should be internationalized


It´s already internationalized...smilies/wink.gif You just don´t know it yet...muuuuhoooohaaaahhaaaaa

The elimination of DDT has killed millions of people from death by malaria. DDT was the most effective agent for killing malaria bearing mosquitos. We do more harm than good, in our doing good.


This is Greenwash bafflegad created by M. Crichton, Patrick Moore and company. They’re just apologists for polluters and have big sticks up there ass when it comes to ecologists. DDT was NEVER banned in 3rd world countries for use against malaria. Sorry. And where is the proof if this figure? Please don’t cite Crichton’s book up as a reference, he writes FICTION.

We do more harm than good, in our doing good.


That is sometimes true, especial when you consider the modern day environmental movement is very nascent. But I reckon unchecked-industry, the military in (name your county) and Religion do worse. Much MUCH worse.

http://richarddawkins.net/article,718,n,n


Ah, it´s so nice to see a link referring to Dawkins. The blind Watchmaker and the Selfish Gene were inspirational readings. His newest too, the GOD DELUSION, is a fantastic page-turner. He is on of my favorite evolutionary biologists; right up there with Edward O. Wilson.

So, what does this brilliant mind have to say about Global Warming?
http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/article2037496.ece

Yes. You could say that the human species is a threat to the human species. I recommend Al Gore's film on global warming. See it and weep. Not just for the human species. Weep for what we could have had in 2000, but for the vote-rigging in Jeb Bush's Florida.
---Richard Dawkins


The Scientists
written by Dandruff, March 21, 2007
Fred Singer.
Despite the caption on the programme, Singer has retired from the University of Virginia and has not had a single article accepted for any peer-reviewed scientific journal for 20 years. His main work has been as a hired gun for business interests to undermine scientific research on environmental and health matters. Before turning to climate change denial he has argued that CFCs do not cause ozone depletion and second hand smoke does not cause cancer (more… ). In 1990 he founded “The Science and Environment Policy Project”, which aggressively contradicts climate science and has received direct funding from Exxon, Shell, Unocal and ARCO. Exxon is also among the funders ($20,000 in 1998 and 2000)

Patrick Michaels
is the most prominent US climate change denier. In the programme he claimed “I’ve never been paid a nickel by the old and gas companies” which is a curious claim. According to the US journalist Ross Gebspan Michaels has received direct funding from, among others German Coal Mining Association ($49,000), Edison Electric Institute ($15,000), and the Western Fuels Association ($63,000) an association of US coal producing interests (more…). The WFA is one of the most powerful forces in the US actively denying the basic science of climate change, funding, amongs other things, the Greening Earth Society which is directed by Patrick Michaels. Tom Wigley, one of the leading IPCC scientists, describes Michaels work as “a catalog of misrepresentation and misinterpretation”. (More on Michaels…)

Philip Stott
was captioned as a Professor at the University of London although he is retired and is therefore free of any academic accountability. Stott is a geographer by training and has no qualifications in climate science. Since retiring Stott has aimed to become Britain’s leading anti-green pundit dedicating himself to wittily criticizing rainforest campaigns (with Patrick Moore), advocating genetic engineering and claiming that “global warming is the new fundamentalist religion.”

http://climatedenial.org/2007/03/09/the-great-channel-four-swindle/
Some more 'scientists'
written by Dandruff, March 21, 2007
Patrick Moore
is Stott’s Canadian equivalent. Since a very personal and painful falling out with Greenpeace in 1986 Moore has put his considerable campaigning energies into undermining environmentalists, especially his former friends and colleagues. Typical of his rhetoric was his claim in the programme that environmentalists were “anti-human” and “treat humans as scum”. Throughout the 1990s Moore worked as lead consultant for the British Columbian Timber Products Association undermining Greenpeace’s international campaign to protect old growth forest there. Whenever he has the chance he also makes strong public statements in favour of genetic engineering, nuclear power, logging the Amazon, and industrial fishing- all, strangely, lead campaigns for Greenpeace (more on Moore..)

Piers Corbyn
has no academic status and his role in such programmes is to promote his own weather prediction business. He has steadfastly refused to ever subject his climatological theories to any form of external review or scrutiny.

Richard Lindzen.
As a Professor of Meteorology at the credible Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Lindzen is by far the most rep**able academic among the US climate deniers and, for this reason, he is heavily cited by sympathetic journalists such as Melanie Phillips and Michael Crichton. His arguments though are identical to the other deniers – for example an article in the Wall Street Journal (June 11 2001) he claims that “there is no consensus, unanimous or otherwise, about long-term climate trends or what causes them”.
He is strongly associated with the other people on the programme though co-authored reports, articles, conference appearances and co-signed statements.

Tim Ball
was captioned as the University of Winnipeg. In fact he left in 1996 since when he has run political campaigns through two organisations he helped found: the Natural Resources Stewardship Project and the Friends of Science which, according to their websites aim to run “a proactive grassroots campaign to counter the Kyoto Protocol”; and “encourage and assist the Canadian Federal Government to re-evaluate the Kyoto Protocol”. Ian Clark is also on the board of the NRSP.

http://climatedenial.org/2007/03/09/the-great-channel-four-swindle/
Proven wrong
written by Dandruff, March 21, 2007
"The problem with “The Great Global Warming Swindle”, which caused a sensation when it was broadcast on Channel 4 last week, is that to make its case it relies not on future visionaries, but on people whose findings have already been proved wrong. The implications could not be graver. Just as the British government launches its climate change bill and Gordon Brown and David Cameron start jostling to establish their green credentials, thousands of people have been misled into believing that there is no problem to address."
http://fanonite.wordpress.com/...-swindle/
Global Warming and The Revolutionary Communist Party - you yanks are going to love this one
written by Dandruff, March 21, 2007
"One intriguing element to the whole affair is the link to the Revolutionary Communist Party, also known as the Living Marxism group, also known as the Institute of Ideas, also known as Spiked Online, also known as Sense About Science. Phew! It’s hard to keep up, even for an ex-DL member, so for an introduction to the bizarre and murky world of this sect which went so far left it came out the other side, check out George Monbiot’s pieces and ‘The Revolution has been Televised‘ and ‘Invasion of the Entryists‘, as well as Nick Cohen’s ‘The rebels who changd their tune to be pundits‘. All of these pieces highlight the role played by RCP members and friends in Durkin’s films and, while it isn’t claimed that Durkin is a member of the RCP, an article on the group by What Next states that “The day after (a piece on Against Nature appeared in The Guardian), the paper reported Martin Durkin, the Against Nature producer, saying that the RCP had been dissolved a year previously. Not known as an RCP member or supporter, it’s not clear how he was privy to such information”.

It’s hard to do justice to the sheer strangeness of the ideology behind this group in its various guises. Essentially, it presents an uber-libertarian view of the world, where everything suggestive of state intervention in private lives, or which might limit scientific exploration or experimentation to any degree is charged with being ‘politically-correct’ or totalitarian, part of a creeping statism which aims to control the actions of everyone on the planet. Whatever you’re for, these professional controversialists will be against it. Indeed, if John Waters scrubbed himself up a bit, he might even be admitted as a member".
http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2007/03/04/swindlewatch-07/

What Martin Durkin really thinks
written by Dandruff, March 21, 2007
"Two eminent British scientists who questioned the accuracy of a Channel 4 programme that claimed global warming was an unfounded conspiracy theory have received an expletive-filled tirade from the programme maker.

In an e-mail exchange leaked to The Times, Martin Durkin, the executive producer of The Great Global Warming Swindle, responded to the concerns of Dr Armand Leroi, from Imperial College, and Simon Singh, the respected scientific author, by telling them to “go and f*** yourself”.

The tirade has caused Dr Leroi to withdraw his cooperation from another Channel 4 project with Mr Durkin on race, The Times has learnt.

The programme, broadcast by Channel 4 last Thursday, featured a number of scientists who disputed the consensus on the causes of global warming.

Dr Leroi was particularly concerned about a segment that featured a correlation between solar activity and global temperatures, which was based on a 1991 paper in the journal Science by Eigil Friis-Chris-tensen. He was surprised that the programme failed to mention that while these findings look convincing superficially, they have been revealed as flawed by subsequent research by Peter Laut.

Dr Leroi e-mailed Mr Durkin about his use of data, concluding: “To put this bluntly: the data that you showed in your programme were . . . wrong in several different ways.” He copied Mr Singh into the exchange.

Mr Durkin replied to both later that morning, saying: “You’re a big daft c**k.” Less than an hour later, Mr Singh, who has worked for the BBC, intervened to urge Mr Durkin to engage in serious debate. He wrote: “I suspect that you will have upset many people (if Armand is right), so it would be great if you could engage in the debate rather than just resorting to one-line replies. That way we could figure out what went wrong/ right and how do things better/ even better in the future.” Mr Durkin replied nine minutes later: “The BBC is now a force for bigotry and intolerance . . . Since 1940 we have had four decades of cooling, three of warming, and the last decade when temperature has been doing nothing.

“Why have we not heard this in the hours and hours of s**t programming on global warming shoved down our throats by the BBC?

“Never mind an irresponsible bit of film-making. Go and f*** yourself.”

Last night Dr Leroi said that he was amazed at the rudeness of Mr Durkin’s reply.

“It was rather a shocking response,” Dr Leroi said. “It was my intention to make a film with Martin Durkin and [the production company] Wag, but that is something I am seriously reconsidering now. I am no climate scientist, but I was very concerned at the way that flaws in these data were brushed over.”

He said that the global warming film had glossed over flaws in data that it used to make its case, and that it was critical that a documentary about a subject as controversial as race and biology did not make similar mistakes.

“As the subject of our proposed film was race, it is such a sensitive topic that it requires great care and great balance. That he has shown so little respect for scientific consensus and such little nuance is a cause for great concern. I cannot imagine it will go ahead now.”

The film would have addressed Dr Leroi’s thesis that race is a biologically meaning-ful and medically valuable concept, a view that is highly controversial among scientists.

Last night Mr Durkin apologised for his langauge. “As far as I was concerned these were private e-mails. They arrived when I was quite tired having just finished the programme in time for transmission,” he said.

“Needless, to say, I regret the use of intemperate language. It is so unlike me. I am very eager to have all the science properly debated with scientists qualified in the right areas and have asked Channel 4 if they will stage a live debate on this subject.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article1517515.ece
Goan:Stay of Execution For Malaria
written by aes, March 21, 2007
Groan: 'Two to three million people die of malaria every year, Uganda's health minister has said, because the U.S. government is afraid of a chemical called DDT. The United States does spend your tax dollars trying to fight malaria in Africa, but it won't fund DDT. The money goes for things like mosquito netting over beds (even though not everyone in Africa even has a bed). The office that dispenses those funds, the Agency for International Development, acknowledges DDT is safe, but it will not spend a penny on it. . .' cont.

http://www.nysun.com/article/24659
Groan on Mac Duff
written by aes, March 21, 2007
Your writing is 'non pareille'. It is a pleasure to see such wit and linguistic erudition, not since Beyond The Fringe have I learned so much of what I did not know.

Now I liked listening to the scientists that were speaking to the issue (f**k the director, I will form my own opinion), but I learned a great deal about the relationship between surface ocean temperature changes, their deep ocean origins and the eons (was it eons or just hundreds of years?) that it takes to effect change. Also the correlating data on sun spot activity and global temperature I found fascinating (though without telescopes how were such observations made?).
I was at the Sun research observatory on Haleakula some time ago and learned of certain solar cycles and the consequential effect on such things as El Nina El Pinta and El Sant Maria, but seriously folks, Greenland was warmer, ice caps melt and refreeze, temperatures rise and temperatures fall and it seems more likely in our feeling of impotence that to believe that we can in anyway alter the temperature of Earth is tantamount to meglomania. Now we did a great job of improving the smog conditions in L.A., I remember growing up there when you could see the snow on the San Gabriel Mountains and from the Griffith Observatory the island of Catalina. You still cant see very far, I think your lungs dont hurt when you breathe any longer, after all we have done so much, catalytic converters, smog analysis stations, smog apparati. I've lived in Hawaii for ten years, the sky is clear, the water clean and you can taste the air, palatable with the scent of Plumeria. I prefer Peugeot Sound and the San Juan Islands to any city. And I prefer clean hydrogen or solar energy now. Yes thats what I want I want it now. But you fascinate yourselves with your sureity, like the eternity of your loves. Buy ethanol, from sugar cane, teach Africa to produce its own fuel, and in the meantime shut the f**k up. You are like monkeys in a tree chattering your philosophy and erudition. I suppose in an infinite amount of time you will write the complete works of Shakespeare. 'Ay there's the rub' . Groan on Mac Duff. 'Thou protests too much'.
Futebol Quente Global
written by Professor, March 21, 2007
You are like monkeys in a tree chattering your philosophy and erudition


After watching the Al Gore flick and the BBC one, I got the impression of watching two monkeys f**king a football. This explains why there would be monkeys in the tree chattering philosophy and erudition.
The end of global warming and most other problems
written by Professor, March 21, 2007
According to Iran-help is on the way.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articl...89,00.html
...
written by Groan, March 21, 2007
Two to three million people die of malaria every year, Uganda's health minister has said


The UGANDA health minister said? Sorry to break this to you Charlie, having worked in Africa myself, the biggest killer there is corruption and incompetence. Forget famine; forget Aids and forget all the ills that that continent suffers. The single reason all these problems, and more, still exist today after billions being tossed into it, is because of the despots in power, their henchman and of course the stupid wars they fight. That, of course isn’t politically correct to say, so it’s best we beat up on scientists and environmentalists, right?

Like I said there was NEVER an international ban on DDT for 3rd world countries to be used for malaria. DDT use was EXEMPT from the 1972 ban for malaria, and still is. There is nothing stopping the president of Uganda (if he is so concerned about his people) from opening up his Swiss bank account and buying all the DDT he needs. But scientists know that DDT is a short term fix because the eradication of malaria comes mainly through education and infrastructure. If these are not in place you can spray all you like and the only thing you’ll end up doing is poisoning the area while creating a new generation of DDT resistant mossies. DDT is a carcinogen, people.

the Agency for International Development, acknowledges DDT is safe


The EPA says disagrees.
http://www.epa.gov/R5Super/eco...s.htm#pest

but seriously folks, Greenland was warmer, ice caps melt and refreeze, temperatures rise and temperatures fall and it seems more likely in our feeling of impotence that to believe that we can in anyway alter the temperature of Earth is tantamount to meglomania.


Greenland was indeed warmer at one time, but what did the coast of Brazil look like at that same time? How about Florida? Bangladesh? I’m not quite sure, but what I can tell you is that there were not 90 million Brazilians living along this 8000km stretch of coast, I could tell you too that Florida was in no way populated like it is today. This is where people fumble. It’s like seeing a meteorite hurtling towards the planet, and instead of everyone getting together to see what can be done, there is a group of idiotarians shrugging their shoulders saying: “Well, the planet’s been hit before; it’s quite natural”.

Now, I’m not equating the possible effects of climate change with a meteorite strike. The world, or should I say humanity, will not end with a warmer climate. That’s a given. So we’re in for a process of adaptation. And this is where the issue gets complicated. If the sea level rises (as many studies point to), where do the people of the Marshall and Maldives Islands go? Environmental refugees will be a fairly significant term tossed about in 2040.

Studies from INPE are already forecasting the demise of much of the Amazon by 2050 where tropical forest will be replaced by savanna. That will have an affect on over 20 million Brazilians. What do they do? And on and on and on. The only reoccurring theme here is that the poorer a nation, or the poorer a population within a nation the harder it will be for them to adapt. Sir Nicholas Stern (don´t be lazy and look him up) predicts it’s going to cost the planet 20% of the global GDP to adapt, 1% to ameliorate. Things that make you go hmmmm.

Regardelss, I’m actually quite chuffed at the debate since Gore’s film because two years ago if you mentioned climate change to most folks you’d be met with a blank stare immediately followed by, “did you see the last episode of 24” or here in brasil " E ai bicho, assistiu o jogo ontem? Que show!"

But you fascinate yourselves with your sureity, like the eternity of your loves. Buy ethanol, from sugar cane, teach Africa to produce its own fuel, and in the meantime shut the f**k up. You are like monkeys in a tree chattering your philosophy and erudition. I suppose in an infinite amount of time you will write the complete works of Shakespeare. 'Ay there's the rub' . Groan on Mac Duff. 'Thou protests too much'.


A single coherent thought would have been nice, but at least you tried. You did manage to sneak in the word erudition twice into one post. Kewl. Warmer in Greenland you say?
Luca
written by A brazilian, March 21, 2007
You speak of the Amazon as if were just right at the corner. As if it were getting there and start living. In that place your greatest enemy is nature and no gun will work against it. To survive in that place is difficult, you will find yourselves destroying the nature in order to survive. Have you imagined the logistics and resources for such a task? Do you think that nations of the Earth would spend any money to watch trees? Without any profit?

Do you want to give a try? smilies/smiley.gif Imagine fighting in a forest that passes most of the year underwater. Hahahaha.

The Amazon is not an untouchable garden, its richness must be exploited rationally. Some people knows that and this why such people will preach for international intervention. For what I have heard and seen Brazil is in the right track.

I think major strides were made to populate that area as much as possible in the past. We, brazilians, should get to know it better.
Luca 2
written by A brazilian, March 21, 2007
By the way, would you just bomb the place until everyone is dead? Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Cowards wars can't be fought there, unless you the destroy amazon for "saving it".
...
written by Groan, March 21, 2007
After watching the Al Gore flick and the BBC one, I got the impression of watching two monkeys f**king a football.


That´s the best you could pull out of these two productions? Seriously? Wowzer, I completely overestimated you from other posts.
Groan: Spare me your 'chuffedness'
written by aes, March 21, 2007
Groan: Sorry about using the word erudition twice, perhaps learnedness, academic integrity.

The Original Plan Of Eradication:
Here is how Paul Russell, who would head the eradication effort, explained it in 1956 (Quoted in Garrett, page 4smilies/cool.gif:

Malaria: Still a Global Health Problem
from Topics in Advanced Practice Nursing eJournal

Generally, it takes four years of spraying and four years of surveillance to make sure of three consecutive years of no mosquito transmission in an area. After that, normal health department activities can be depended upon to deal with occasional introduced cases. . . . Eradication can be pushed through in a community in a period of eight to ten years, with not more than four to six years of actual spraying, without much danger of resistance. But if countries, due to lack of funds, have to proceed slowly, resistance is almost certain to appear and eradication will become economically impossible. Time is of the essence [his emphasis] because DDT resistance has appeared in six or seven years.
A central reason for the resurgence of malaria is the parasite's increasing resistance to chloroquine, the most common drug used to treat the disease. Another reason is the discontinuation of the insecticide DDT. Although DDT has been banned from agricultural use in most countries since the 1970s because of its damaging effects on the environment, it continues to be used in limited quantities for public health purposes.

Deduce coherency 'my dear Groan'. It was kind of you to assess that, 'at least you tried.' Praise from Caesar.

As to those who have chosen to make their residences in the 'eye of the coming storm' it is almost Darwinian, a kind of natural selection. It is almost like arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, solution without solution. Choose wisely where you build your house of stone.

Wisdom is knowing what you dont know. You are very wise Groan for you know a great deal of what you dont know.



Inspector Groin
written by Professor, March 21, 2007
That´s the best you could pull out of these two productions? Seriously? Wowzer, I completely overestimated you from other posts.

That was your first mistake, overestimating me, groin.
Your second, is you are too nervous, groin.
Funny how the Al Gore show and the BBC could use the same graph and come up with totally different stories, again it reminds me of two monkeys f**king a football, groin.
A brazilian
written by Luca , Rome, March 22, 2007
The amazon forest should not be looked as a "national resource". The Secutiry Council should warn Brazil that if exploitation continues measures could be taken to wreck Brazilian economy. We can't all die because of the Brazilian government whims.
Same applies to Central Africa and Indonesia's forest. Woods from these areas should also be boycotted
...
written by Luca , Rome, March 22, 2007
Satellite pictures have shown all too well how far the exploitation has gone, you're threatening the rest of the world. As for comments regarding Mussolini I hate him 100% and Brazil should take cae of its nazi geramans who inhabit its South.
The United States is the world's biggest polluter
written by Costinha, March 22, 2007
Americans constitute 4% of the world's population but produces about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions. Global warming has been scientifically linked to carbon dioxide.

USA, the land of the Fee!
Luca from Rome is a fake!
written by Costinha, March 22, 2007
His real name is Cula and he is from the Brooklyn... I hear you changed your mind! What did you do with the diaper?


hehehe
Luca, come on! We are waiting!
written by A brazilian, March 22, 2007
Woods from these areas should also be boycotted


This is easier said than done because the first world is the biggest client. If they sell it is because there's demand. The same logic happens with illegal immigrants in the US, there's a huge demand for them, then logically the real guilty aren't the poor immigrants but the american businesses that employ them. If you really wanted to see this over the very first action would be to make sure that nobody in the world would buy it, especially the US and Europe. Why don't you do it?

I know why, because the forest is the least of your concerns. This is just an interventionist pretext. But you have no idea how the "green hell" is like, can you dig a trench underwater? Oops. But you could in the very little land that remains dry, but think about the insects, mosquitoes and animals such as big snakes and others that could eat you up. Have you imagined the heat? It's hot and humid even for brazilian standards. How would supplies be deployed? You can't see anything from a plane except trees and rivers.

I think we should make sure the European and american economies are destroyed because the world can't be a victim of such idiots that release that huge amount of pollution. Thanks to Europe and the US we have the "global warming". You are the last people on Earth that should talk about protecting anything, since you fail so miserably to do the very minimum to protect it.
Luca can't learn from the past
written by A brazilian, March 22, 2007
Napolean invading Russia. Wasn't the winter his worst enemy? Argentina in the Malvinas islands war against England. Argentina is a country that is used to snow and cold weather but even for them the arctic weather of those islands were too much! The winter was their worst enemy.

In the Amazon mother nature is your worst enemy.

...
written by Mark Santos, March 22, 2007
think that the scientific community comprises little more than puppets with agendas, doesn’t mean its true.

No the media comprises of little more than puppets with agendas. There's been huge pressure on those scientist who dissent to conform to the agenda. What does that tell you?
CFCs would mean an end to certain economies, and losses in jobs; The Montreal Protocol PROVED that an international agreement could be achieved and worked

That's exactly my point. Not much changed except Dupont got the keep it's cash cow and you brilliant radical environmentalists lent them a hand.
Again the media is using mass histeria about global warming in a knee jerk reaction for changes. Truth is science cannot and does not operate on a supposition basis. There's not enough evidence to prove human contribution. There is just about enough indication to the contrary. Like someone else pointed out. We humans would like to think we have much more control over our destimies than we actually do.
That is sometimes true, especial when you consider the modern day environmental movement is very nascent. But I reckon unchecked-industry, the military in (name your county) and Religion do worse. Much MUCH worse.

Let me guess, you believe government, or worse, power tripping environmental nazis with a mandate hold al the answers.
He is on of my favorite evolutionary biologists; right up there with Edward O. Wilson.

Allow me to go on a limb and say you're a hopeless liberal. You Humanistic pseudo-intelectual who think you know a lot more than you actually do.
Erudition is not quite the right atribute to describe you. Arrogance and lack of intelectual honesty is more like it.
I bet you still hold the theory of evolution as the uncontestable truth.
Costinha solves the problem!
written by Professor, March 22, 2007
I think we should make sure the European and american economies are destroyed because the world can't be a victim of such idiots that release that huge amount of pollution.


Then Brazil will not have to wait another 200 years to become a first world country. (I type this as I suck polluted air from the window of my apartment in São Paulo, hoping to gain enough oxygen saturation to relieve me from a pollution headache.)
Professor can't read
written by A brazilian, March 22, 2007
That wasn't Costinha, it was me. And it was a reply following the same idiotic logic as Luca used.

Would you actually read before posting crap?
Santos Mark
written by Groan (AKA GROIN), March 22, 2007
Let me guess, you believe government, or worse, power tripping environmental nazis with a mandate hold al the answers.


Power tripping environmental Nazis? Come on, where are the cameras. This has to be a joke. Really. Am I on TV? Am I being X´d? Where´s Jamie? Is this Panico na TV? Certainly, no one could be this stupid. Really, who put you up to this… My wife?

Not much changed except Dupont got the keep it's cash cow and you brilliant radical environmentalists lent them a hand.


You´re full of s**t. Most refrigerators are replaccing CFCs, and HCFCs with Greenfreeze technology, invented by Harry Rosin and Dr. Hans Preisendanzs. The technology CANNOT be patented, its FREE, and so boohoo for your friends at Dupont. You also forgot to mention that the Ozone holes got smaller. But why let facts get in the way of a good Ole idiotarian rant.

Allow me to go on a limb and say you're a hopeless liberal.


I may be hopeless, sir, but how dare you call me a liberal. I´m an Onanist, and a damn proud one at that.

ou Humanistic pseudo-intelectual


I’d say OK if you meant Intellectual pseudo-humanist. What a bummer that dyslexia, né.

I bet you still hold the theory of evolution as the uncontestable truth.


Oh heavens no. I, like you, think that evolution is a flapdoodle, but there is huge pressure on scientists and journalists to hide the one and only true creator of everything: The Flying Spaghetti Monster (May meatballs be upon him).