Brazzil

Since 1989 trying to understand Brazil

Search

Custom Search

Cheap Mobile Phones
---------------
Members : 2562
Content : 3357
Content View Hits : 20838136

Who's Online

We have 235 guests online

Login Form




Pingo
Breaking News from Brazil
From Brazzil Mag news team
Brazzil Magazine


Cida - A Brazilian Entrepreneur PDF Print E-mail
Written by John Fitzpatrick   
Thursday, 05 April 2007 21:30

Inside a Brazilian bus Most workers in Brazil work in the informal sector. The country's leading expert in labor issues, Professor José Pastore, estimates that 60% of the workers in the private sector earn their living informally. This amounts to 46.5 million people. This system means that workers have no social security or basic rights and that the state is deprived of revenues.

These informal workers cover a wide range of jobs and situations. Some, such as domestic maids, have fixed hours and pay and may spend decades with the same employer but, as they are not registered with the Labor Ministry, they are outside the system.

Others, such as farm laborers, frequently work in such miserable conditions that the law regards them as being akin to slaves. Others live from day to day, selling snacks or pirated CDs or even themselves on the streets. Of these informal workers, Professor Pastore estimates that 45% work for themselves - that is around 22 million people.

This article presents one of these self-employed people, a woman called Cida whom I spoke to as she was working on a busy bus route in São Paulo's Avenida Nove de Julho. I doubt if every word she says is true but I am inclined to believe most of her story

Cida is the kind of woman a middle-class Paulistano would pass in the street and assume was a domestic maid. She is about 35 and so thin that if she lost a couple of kilos she would look ill. She is quite pretty, with a clear skin, large brown eyes, a delicate bone structure and fine straight dark hair.

She wears no make-up or earrings but her fingernails and toenails are varnished a garish red. When she smiles she exposes a couple of broken and misshapen front teeth and the pretty picture cracks a bit. She comes originally from the Northeastern state of Bahia. Her features show a mixture of white and Indian ancestry rather than the more common African characteristics found there.

She is much more articulate than most women from her background and not a bit shy talking to a foreigner. She attended school until she was about 13. Although she can express herself well and is forthcoming and confident, her handwriting is a childish scrawl, more like a graph than a script, full of craggy peaks, plunging downstrokes and long curves that make it look as though she had scratched the words on a wall with a nail rather than written them on paper with a pen. It is difficult to read but this is not of any great importance because most of the people who try to read her writing are semi-literate.
   
On leaving school she started doing odd jobs in a restaurant in a town outside Salvador and eventually became a cook. Like millions of other Northeasterners, she came to São Paulo in search of a better life. She has been in the city for 16 years and, in that period, has faced much hardship.

She married and set up home in a favela in the Santo Amaro area where she still lives. She gave birth 11 years ago to a daughter who was disabled and epileptic. She continued to work as a cook but after a while had to give up to look after her daughter. The girl is often admitted to hospital and requires constant attention and regular treatment with drugs. Cida says she needs 340 reais a month for medicine and drugs - around US$ 170.

She also says her husband was killed by a stray bullet in a shoot-out between police and drug traffickers which left six people dead. Her husband was walking past a hill where the firefight took place and was hit. She says he was not involved in trafficking. 

She has another daughter, aged three, who was in her arms as we spoke. She says this daughter is normal although the child was in such a deep sleep that I wondered if she was all right. Although buses were thundering past only a couple of feet away the girl was oblivious to any noise.

Cida said her daughter was just tired as she had risen very early that morning. The girl stirred for a moment, looked around and then collapsed back to sleep again. I wondered if she had been drugged as Cida uses her as a marketing tool in her work, which is selling sweets.

Along with the girl, she carries a big plastic bag full of candies and chewing gum. When she enters the bus she hands passengers a scrap of paper scrawled with an account of the plight of her handicapped daughter and the prices of the sweets - the most expensive cost 50 centavos and the cheapest are 10 centavos.

Most people, at least, accept the paper and read or try to it while others refuse and ignore her. It is rare not to sell something. She works five or six hours a day and earns about 600 reais, about US$ 300, a month.

That may not sound much but is in fact a pretty good gross income and compares with the minimum wage of 380 reais a month. In November and December she sells more and can earn as much as 1,000 reais. From this she has to pay for stock of sweets which she buys from a shop in Santo Amaro and her daughter's medicine.     

She uses the buses on this particular route because they cross the city and are always busy. She avoids buses which are crowded so she has room to move inside and try and make a personal contact with passengers. This means she avoids the rush hours and concentrates on the middle part of the day. She says the drivers let her enter free of charge as several of them live near her home and know her daughter.

Cida sees no chance of ever going back to regular work as a cook and for the foreseeable future her life will revolve around the bus route between Santo Amaro and the Bandeirante terminal in downtown São Paulo.

John Fitzpatrick is a Scottish writer and consultant with long experience of Brazil. He is based in São Paulo and runs his own company Celtic Comunicações. This article originally appeared on his site www.brazilpoliticalcomment.com.br. He can be contacted at This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

© John Fitzpatrick 2007

Comments (165)Add Comment
workers have no social security or basic rights and that the state is deprived of revenues.
written by ch.c., April 06, 2007
But Brazil has still.....A VERY HIGH DEFICIT IN ITS SOCIAL SECURITY DUE TO ITS GENEROUS SPENDING.....AND WELL BEING...FOR THEIR CIVIL SERVANTS EMPLOYEES !!!!!!!

And farmers are entitled to the Social Security....despite they dont contribute for it !!!!!


Thus when I say that Brazil is a Tropical Mess and a Tropical Mud, I cannot be so wrong !!!!

yessssss.......Brazil is an archaïc, medieval and third world country.

Here is a statement made in December 2005 by Paul Wolfowitz, the World Bank director :
""Something like 10 percent of the population of Brazil lives on less than a dollar a day - what we define as extreme poverty. "
Wolfowitz says about 25 percent of the population in the region lives on less than $2 a day.
"It does have, I think, the most severe inequality of any region in the world except for sub-Saharan Africa."

And on the subject that the state is deprived of revenues is totally wrong, because :
- even regular workers with an average monthly salary of around Reais 1100.- (which is the average salary in your 6 most developed industrial states).....DONT PAY INCOME TAXES...BECAUSE THEY ARE LEGALLY EXEMPT !!!!
- On the other hand, legal workers or not, or those with or without a job, or 100 % of the poors ....pay INDIRECT TAXES, such as fuel and transportation tax, very high in Brazil (Your fuel price at the pump station is much higher than in the USA....despite being a much poorer country).
- YOUR OVERALL TAX RATE THAT INCLUDE INDIRECT TAXES ARE VERY HIGH AT AROUND 38 % OF GDP
- BUT YOUR TAX RATE ON INCOME IS VERY LOW....SINCE THE MAXIMUM RATE IS AT ONLY 27 %......BENEFFITING THE WEALTHY WHO DESPITE THE ALREADY LOW TAX RATE.......STILL ENJOY DOING HEAVY TAX EVASION......... TO FURTHER REDUCE THEIR TAX BILL !!!!!!

Simply stated the mess is everywhere !!!!!!!!
To:Ch.c
written by João da Silva, April 06, 2007
Thus when I say that Brazil is a Tropical Mess and a Tropical Mud, I cannot be so wrong !!!!


You have made this statement several times.Now that you convinced me that we are in a Tropical mud, shoot off some suggestions to get out this mess. I am sure you have several.
...
written by This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it , April 06, 2007
To: Ch.c
Where did you get so much hatred for Brazil? Your messages are impossible to take seriously because you are so full of hate. Of course Brazil has many problems, but when everything is "tropical mud" it's more a reflection on your own personal vendetta against Brazil.
To the nephew or son of Lula !!!!!!!!!
written by ch.c., April 06, 2007
Of course ! There is not only one answer but many !
Just do what successful countries did and do !!!!!
Take a good idea here, another good idea there and do your own economic model !
But take ideas that have been beneficial for the whole society and not bad ideas that have already proven bad historically !!!!!

But the first good ideas could be : accountability !
And so far there has been no accountability in Brazil and those who failed have not been penalized one way or the other.....these guys have been
re-elected.....by YOU !!!!!!!
Great isnt it ?

And to bienchido : instead of generalizing your critics, you should better criticize me or defend Brazil with arguments, facts, stats, comparisons.
Unable...because you have none ? Thus I should not be that wrong when I say brazilian are uneducated and have no brains for analyzing facts,numbers, stats and comparisons !!!!!

But dont worry, this is exactly what your governments and your minority wealthy elite....WANT !!!!!!!!
They are afraid that you become more educated and finally realize.....HOW STUPID YOU HAVE BEEN IN TRUSTING ALL THEIR LIES !!!!!!
your own personal vendetta against Brazil !!!!!!
written by ch.c., April 06, 2007
I suggest you to figure out how many foreigners have been horribly murdered by Brazilians and compare with how many Brazilians have been horribly killed by foreigners elsewhere !!!!!!
That would be a good starting base to find out who makes the most vendettaSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!

And my basic question to you would be simply how can anyone compliment Brazilian stats WHEN YOU ARE NEVER EVER ON TOP OF THE RANKINGS, BUT MOSTLY BADLY RANKED OR WORSE AT OR NEAR THE QUEUE OF THE RANKINGS !!!!!!!!
- Do I lie or invent when I say your country is ranked 122 out of 175 in the doing business ranking ?
- Do I lie or invent when I say your country is ranked as one the worst in the world for the wealth inequality ??????
- Do I lie or invent when I say that Brazil, despite 14 rates cut, have still the world highest interest rates....after inflation ????????
- Do I lie or invent when I say that Brazil has the lowest economic growth rate.....after Haïti in 2005, and after San Salvador and Haiti in 2006.
Not so until recently when your bad magician found a bad trick to restate the economic growth rate of the past few years !!!!! strange isnt it ?
I could dontinue for hours.....again !

Or should I or may should you compliment the sad reality ???????

Sorry but contrary to your corrupted Government and politicians, I dont lie !
Every single of my critics have official sources !!!!!!!!!!
And most could be found nowhere else than IN THE ARTICLES OF THIS SITE !!!!!!!!!!!!!
You probably missed them ......on purpose ! But they are still HERE.....just read them all instead of watching 24/7 your famous TV soap operas !
Blind to the problem
written by GTY, April 06, 2007
The people who use this blog at least have access to a computer. The people Fitzpatrick writes about never will, this includes much of the almost 50 million people in Brazil living in poverty, in squaller, Brazil's shame that few Brazilians even want to recognize exists. While many comments from the foreigners here, like Cch are racist, many Brazilians on this site try to paint a rosy picture, and defend bad acts when in fact the picture is bleak, not rosey at all. The only Brazilians that can count on Social Security are those fortunate enough to work for the governement. The only ones who can count on a good education or health care are the 10% of the rich who can afford it. You can say what you want, but in Europe and the US...now even China, there is opportunity for everyone to recieve both.

My wife's father was an Admiral in the Brazilian Navy, his wife (my God forsaken mother-in-law), still draws his entire retirement, when she dies, his full retirement will be drawn by my wife and her sister, but we sure don't need it...does that make sense. How many kids are on the streets juggeling tennis balls, wiping widnshields, or doing acrobatics for a few real? In the US we have our share of homeless on the corners, but the majority are adult drug addicts and drunks. In Brazil, the ones on the street represent your future.

Brazilian social services are simply lip service from politicans that want to keep getting elected and padding their own retirement and offshore accounts, there is no leadership, Lula has proved that time and time again, now he is selling out your biofuel technology to the US. I know many Brazilians and count many of them as friends, but when push comes to shove, they are all out for themselves even at the expense of family and friends, in short, it is very difficult to place trust in a Brazilian, no matter how much you want to...I am sorry, but Brazilians are the most selfesh people on the face of the earth. They have little need for charity and will walk right buy someone who has been hit by a car and is laying in the street, not even bothering to summon help, I have seen it. Drug dealers shut down entire cities , shops, stores and resturants are forced to close in "respect" for the funeral of a drug lord killed by the police, thousands including children show up for his funeral, This would be unimaginable in the US or Europe. The Drug Lord is the one, not the Brazilian governement, or charitable Brazilians who provide for these childrens, insuring them jobs as soldiers and packers for his drug trade, even though most of the young men will die a young and violent death.

Brazilians, go ahead, keep reading these articles which contain at least some truth and then keep making excuses or reasons why things continue to get worse and you continue to spin into oblivion.
Unfortunately this reality is so true
written by Stephanie, April 06, 2007
And we Brazilians tend to give the most unacceptable excuses, such as: this is how things have always been, why should I be the one to try to save the country? or: Why should I care about politicians? I hate Politics so I don't mind who will be elected since all of them are corrupted.

I don't have statistics to prove Brazilian think and act like that, however, I've been observing people around me and I can say Brazilians don't seem to realize how exploited they are, how ignorant their decisions are when they vote, how unconcious of the cruel reality we are when we go to school. SHould I feel sorry for us? Not at all, this is the price we're paying for being so ridiculously unaware of what is going on with our own country.

To:Che.c
written by João da Silva, April 06, 2007
To the nephew or son of Lula !!!!!!!!!
written by ch.c., 2007-04-06 13:51:22


Excuse me,did you call me the Nephew or son of Lula?
Don,t send them here !!!!!
written by u.s. guest, April 06, 2007
Illegal Brazilians operate in the u.s. much like the Informal workers the author describes... americans ARE FED UP WITH ILLEGAL ALIENS......
US Guest
written by GTY, April 06, 2007
If American companies would not hire them, nor could they not find work, there would be no reason for them to come...Brazil is not sending them. In fact, no one has sent immigrants since Castro did so on the boat lift. If you are so feed up with it, you should elect politicans that will do something about it. If we have opened to door to illegal immigrants for decades to fuel big buisnesses appetite for cheap labor, in fact, if we have encouraged it, we are morally obligated to let those that have made lives here and obeyed the law stay, while preventing new illegal immigration. Unfortunatly, there is a intellegence vacuum on this blog, the issue is complicated, but needs to be resolved.

Again, no country sends thier people here...we let them in.
try this
written by forrest allen brown, April 06, 2007
why was it when the US started to build the fence along out southern bordor brazilians came out to protest it , in SP /RIO .and other citys
But when brazil started to build theres in the south no one came out to say a thing
that is like saying do as we say not as we do
Forest
written by GTY, April 06, 2007
If my memory serves me, you are currently living in Brazil and a Vietnam Vet. I was in the military too, just after Vietnam for 10 years, a Gulf War I vet. I stood guard as an infantryman on the fence in Berlin and Hoff Germany on the Chech border. I am also an American who protests a wall on the US border, look where the right wing fanatics have taken us. Is it really something you want to see? The greatest country in the world, built on immigration, building a symbolic fence? What nonsense...what a shame. People all over the world should be protesting it, not just Brazilians. You are able to live in Brazil, why not just bring your wife and live here. Do something about the way you feel?

Do you really feel that a fence 100 miles long or so will keep people from coming in? Do you really think Brazilians (and every other nationality) really want to leave their family and friends in Brazil? They do so becuase the US turns a blind eye to illegal immigration so Walmart and McDonalds can have low paid, unskilled labor. So while you may be fooled by the retoric, I'm not, intelligent people are not fooled. Illegal immigration is encouraged by US business and government. Brazil does not "send" people", they leave because Brazil offers no opportunity and here, even illegaly, they can make somewhat of a living.

I don't know about the wall in South Brazil, it really is not relevant to the discussion. What is relevant is what we do with children born in the US to illegal immigrants? Do we toss them out? Do we hold them back from education or health care? Or do we embrace them as new citizens. I can tell you one thing, there are lots and lots of children of illegal immigrants serving and dying in Iraq and Afganistain, as an ex-soldier you should be ashamed for not recognizing this...should we deport their parents? You of all people should no there is no racism nor politics in a foxhole.

Oh, by the way, were did you learn how to construct a sentence? Didn't you know that you begin a sentence with a capital letter? There should be no period before "and", and countries (like Brazil) should be capitalized as well...period at the end. I'll bet there are a lot of illegal immigrants that know this. You must have been a draftee, at least now we have a volunteer Army and are not saddled with the level of soldier we had in Vietnam, although they were heros, they were used as cannon fodder.
To:Forest/Try this
written by João da Silva, April 06, 2007
But when brazil started to build theres in the south no one came out to say a thing
that is like saying do as we say not as we do


Forrest,my friend. You are doing ok?. I live in the south of Brazil and I am yet to come across any wall. I think you have had too many cold ones.

GTY, Forest is right now in Belize and a good friend of many Brazilians and American expatriates.

You take care Forest and have a great easter week end.
the rest of the
written by forrest allen brown, April 06, 2007
to me any one that comes to the USA adds another theard to the fabric that makes this country so grate .
to have someone in another land that does not face the same type of threat to life as we people do should keep out of our countrys business booth here and over seas .

most countries of the present day world owe a grate det to the USA , but we still have to put up with simple minded people trying to push there life styles on our land and life .
as far a brazil goes i will never return there , if a country that says it is so grate lets the law get away with what they did to me i dont need them or want them .
i can say the same for the USA i am in belize for now and my wife will join me here soon , and the way i feel towards the usa right now i could care less if they took away my citizenship and gave it away to some one else .
if you work and save to live your dream and the goverment lets some one take it away from you than why should i pay taxes or want to live in that country
as the rest of the world in comming up to progress the USA is comming down to meet them .
the money for the wall was stolen by lula and his 40 thifes
next you go to NY look at the hole do we need to care what other people think .
listen to cliton she says the avrage working woman makes $78.000 a year , who a DC whore .
we have gotton so sensitive we are worried what the people we are at war with are thinking about us ??
we worrie about taking pictures of them in prison , but yet they show our military personal killed and hung in the streets .
we worrie about how we treat there bible , we should worrie about how they teach there children to kill all non beleivers , and think brazil once the USA is gone you will be next as you are a nonbeliving state to them .

as i said before dont drink , smoke , do drugs , or chase women .
i have my wife soon
and the rest of the world can surlp my butt
keeps getting taken off server ??????????????????????????
written by forrest allen brown, April 06, 2007
i am a Brazilian. I have no desires, no will, no likes, no dislikes. I had been fashioned to resemble as closely as possible a human model which I had not chosen and which did not suit me. Day after day since my birth, I had been made up: my gestures, my attitudes, my vocabulary. My needs were repressed, my desires, my impetus, they had been dammed up, painted over, disguised and imprisoned. After having removed my brain, having gutted my skull, they had stuffed it full of acceptable thoughts which suited me like an apron on a cow. And when it was verified that the graft had taken, that I no longer needed anyone to control the waves which welled up from the depths of my being, I was let go. I could live freely.' roam 'in the context of the culture that makes us what we are
Brazilian.trying to deal with the network of chains that bind us: chains composed of gender, class, 'race' and religion and how the family transmits the past into the present and in doing so, hides the chains from our view.

I a country that does not give the BASICs rights to its people ,
that allows the wealthy to run as they see fit , that allow es the government to take what ever it wants , in in return say nothing to admit nothing .
but to place the blame on some one else everything is someone else fault
while we the people are set aside in the same country we are to be proud of
kept dumb by the government schools ,
kept hungry by the selling off of our food stocks .
denied good things to buy as the import tax is placed to high to deal with .
but every 4 years we set out to elect the new lords of the land not who is best but who we feel will not steal more from us than the last one.
all the new programs will not help Brazil or its people till we stop kidding ourselves we need change .
stop all the corruption .
stop all the lieing .
stop[p all the theft .
stop the killing of our young .
stop lieing to ourselves .

grow up and face it we need help !!!!
and it must start from within the host government , if not we need to replace them one way or the other
NOT ONLY IN BRAZIL BUT THE USA AS WELL
start with the 13 amendent read it well

Are you for real
written by GTY, April 06, 2007
Or retarded? No wonder they kicked you out of Brazil. Are you a plant from this blog, geez, no adult can really think and write like you do, like a third grader. How long do countries owe us debts...Europe? That was decades ago. The real question is what have we done lately? Brought peace to the middle east? Liberated Iraq? Stopped the spread of socialism in South and Latin America? No my friend, the world has every reason to point a finger at us, we have really f**ked things up in the last 8 years. As a God fearing nation, we had better be afraid, as God has something terrible in mind for us, we have sinned beyond belief. We have in just 8 short years rallied every enemy we have ever had, along with many that used to be friends. The world hates us, they have reason, we have realy screwed things up. Sure we are a super power, but our military is strung out, our enemies are now taking risks they would never have before...due to the fear of America. That fear no longer exists, the world percieves us as the MTV society, soft with a gooey middle...they are not far off.

Dude, I have some bad news for you, your lovely wife is not going to meet you in Brazil. She wants someone that can provide her with a Greencard, why can't you help jer immigrate? Convicted felon? On the run? There is another story behind you my friend. But if you have to be somewhere, well, Belize is as good as anywhere else, if you get a chance try the tarpon and bonefish on the flats. Just don't forget to take your medication.
GYT
written by forrest allen brown, April 06, 2007
like so many other things in life i dont care about , when i want to i can be perfict in english and 4 other languages
was in the USMC and we were used to protect army foward fire suport bases .
nixon and the press ran the war from DC they lived the dream we fought the night mare .
to many good men were lost to stupid ideas made up by people that there idea of doing service to there country was going to school and counting beans .
we never got a what our service men of ww 1/2 received and we now are making sure that our sons and daughters get a better welcom home than we did .
as far as my IQ 178 as of 10 years ago .
hold 11 patiants in assorted fields . some of them have killed more people than cancer.

the post above can be said about the USA also .
when ever a goverment of men find out they can grant themselves sepical guifts and favors and not worrie about it ti shows we are in the next to the last phase of before the decline of the state .
thay way through out history and it is doing it again
Pathetic
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
Forest...you are really pathetic. Another ex- vet whining about his lot in life, you are so full of s**t it is pouring out your ears. You have no one to blame for your miserable life than yourself. Nixon is dead, so are the press that covered the war, most of your Nam brothers (if you really were in Nam) are proud of their service and are now honored by America. Your "I'm a poor Vet with PTSS" won't wash anymore. Cancer killed close to a quarter million people last year...what did you invent?...I believe you are either a liar or delusional. 4 different languages? You can barely write in English, my nine year old can write better than you, he does speak 2 languages...you are full of crap. 178 IQ, you can say anything you want on a Blog, doesn't mean anyone would believe you, I believe it's more like 78.

Blame the Governement, blame Brazil, blame illegal immigrants, blame your wife, blame the war...you seem to blame everyone but yourself. Your poor Forest pity party may work on most of the people here, but not me. Your wife is not coming to Belize because she can't get a Greencard, but because you have stopped being a man. Poor Forest, I can't wait to see your next post about how unjust life has been to me...Man Up! What a waste of a man you have turned out to be.
3D Prototype
written by Professor, April 07, 2007
Considering all of the above posts that I just read, it seems to me if we if we were to shelve our patriotism of our respective countries, we would come to the same conclusion: Human civilization has been a failure at being civil. However, If we had not tried, how would we have known?
!!!
written by forrest allen brown, April 07, 2007
how many countries have you been to that hate you just because you are an American .that right you are an arm chair traveler
i love my military service ,was and still happy to serve . did you army boy
do they hate you or your country ?
did you do any thing to improve there prospective on an American or do you just set on the bar stool and bitch about how your government has screwed things up and they are a bunch of monkeys .

go to Cuba and see what they think of you as a person from Canada then tell them you are a american watch how they change .

the US has been led by a bunch of self absorbed self fulfilling ass for more than 60 years they dictate policy to the world and we as a people pay the price .
it was the US that passed into law it would not wage war on or set to try to kill the leader of a country and most countries sign it to protect there respective butts .
while we as citizens have to pay with higher taxes , our blod , and getting put down by any person from any country we wish to visit
have you ever done any thing to cause a war , have you ,
but we as a people are judged by what the press puts out .
do you go to foreign lands for sex because you cant get laid in the US , most likely you do
do you know or did you bother to find out one thing about the last person you came in contact with while standing guard , did not think so

as far as my wife the only thing she has ever done wrong in life was to marry me .

to try to get her to the US has been a long drawn out set of road blocks ,
pick up a woman from Brazil take her to the embassy as say this is my wife and we want to go to the USA ,
then tell them no i have not paid taxes in the US for the past 10 years , no i do not or she does not own any thing . no we do not have jobs that amount to more than $15.000 a year
set back and see what they tell you

how much money has the US spent trying to buy friends .
how many dictators has the US backed that were just flat out flops .

it use to be every thing good came from the US , and every thing bad came from the US .
now we have to add the most stupid things come from the US.

the US needs to just back off its high horse , close down it military bases out side of the Americas and let the world run with itself , cover its own land then its own hemisphere , turn from an oil based society to an alternate fuel and life style

and let the world go to the dogs of war and we stay out of it .
let them police it , china is an up and comer , Brazil wants a chance .

let them run with it ,
go back before ww1 and live like that as a country .

would this make you happy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
do you have a name or just to afraid to use it on the net , see that is what is wrong with you can say what you want and not be held to answer for it as you are not a person but and alter ego not held up to any truth as you are nothing but words on a page
anonymous should be you name like so many others here .
grow some balls and live with it , if you don't like what i put into print don't read it
don't get bent and call me and others names as we could never meat like some small child on a prank phone call , but like them it all can be traced back to the source
i have more respct for mr João da Silva and others on this site as he is not one to call the kettle black with out putting his name up front






...
written by AES, April 07, 2007
You write very well, though in your grammatic criticism you yourself erred ever so slightly
'you of all people should no there is no racism nor politics in a foxhole'. . .you of course spelled no incorrectly meaning no doubt 'know'. Your tirade is curious. It was a pity before September 11, the U.S. was 'free' naive, who could have conceived in our open c**kpited society that someone would take a boxcutter and slash the throat of a stewardess and fly a plane into the Pentagon, and two skyscrapers in N.Y. Now we all have to be scrutinized, checked, verified, searched, wire tapped, listened in on and bolt the cabin door on all airliners and have the presence of armed marshalls on board. We cannot even stop drugs from crossing the border in mass, we cannot stop people from entering our country in mass. The fence is I think 750 miles long. It is a pity to have to attempt to prevent all of this infiltration, just on the possibility that someone might take advantage of this hole in our armanent. Build the fence and station troops along the border as necessary. You manned the Berlin wall. That was a wall to keep people in. This is a fence to keep people out. You mocked Forest as having been a draftee. The problem with America today is that there is no compusory service. It is a free ride. We have a nation of emotional adolescents that believe nothing is required and everything is owed. We have a nation of physically unfit, obese, emotional cripples. We have in essence a mercenary army, an international professional SWAT team if you will. If we are at war then draft enough men to cover the military necessity to complete the objective. A paid military. What an absurdity. I did two years for free, I joined in '63 after Kennedy had his brains shot out. It was my obligation as a citizen to serve, to contribute. The 'paid' military, euphamistically called 'the all volunteer army' was created because in '73 it was determined that without a declaration of war conscription was unconstitutional because it states that no standing army shall be kept. Well GTY we are in a declared war. I have two sons in the military defending your insensitive ass and your erudite daughter. One is a submariner and the other in helo's. As to the agricultural interest in cheap immigrant farm labor, supporting illegal immegration, it is a thing of the pre -war past. The cheap foreign worker program can be legitimized, like passing through customs. How many millions of foreign nationals are roaming clandestinly around the U.S.? And why the hell dont you know in time of war who the hell these people are? What do you think, they all mean us no harm? s**t bring back the draft and leave Forest the 'f**k' alone. Why dont you go yell at your children. And thanks for your military service, I'm sure you got paid for it. I got $40 a month along with a million other 19 year olds. It seems you wont be happy till a nuclear device goes off in N.Y. imported through some hole in our defense, or fence. Then what you stupid f**k?
Forest & AES
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
Are you guys brothers or what? Anyway, I agree with much of what you both say, I am just saying that giving up and whinning about everything is a cowards way out. Forest, I travel frequently, but unlike you, mine is done is business class and includes not only S America but Asia as well, AES is correct, people don't hate the American, they hate America. And I agree with you regarding our governments performance and their willingness to start wars that do not effect their sons and daughters, it is a national shame that blood is being spilled due to their arrogance. I do disagree with AES that the current military is mercenary, sure they are paid better than the "old days", but these are young men and women who are truely patriots, who no matter what the press put their lives on the line for what the believe, they should be honored not defamed and AES has done, funny he does this with children serving, his kids must be very proud of him, does Cindy Shehan ring a bell? I do agree with AES however, that every young man over 18 should spend a couple of years in uniform, I think part of the reason we have sunk so low is that they no longer have to. Instead they can live their MTV lives without ever understanding why they have the ability to do so.

AES
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
AES, you use, like our moronic President the same arguments regarding 9-11, sure, we were naive, we still are, but we should not have to give up our way of lives nor our constitutional rights to be safe. We as taxpayers do have a right to a competent intellegence function and government, but we have no right to try and gain information by the torture of combatants, many who were just in the wrong place in the wrong time. Not only have our polices not worked, we have created terrorists, people who would do us real harm by the tens of thousands by our arrogance and incompetence. Our governmenet had the right and momentum to fight terrorism, but why did we invade and occupy Iraq? And then make so many mistakes...poor leadership and a lack of knowledge how the world works. The middle east is a lot different than Texas.

A wall is a wall, what do you think our founding fathers would think of the idea? The wall was just a bulls**t idea by a punch of pragmatic politicians to get elected and grasping at straws, it will never be built, it's not even funded, do you think the new congress will do so? You do however, make a good point regarding our fence being built to keep people out, the other to keep people in, but it still seems so un-American to even consider building it. What do we do with the millions of illegal immigrants that have been here for so long, that have built lives, that have sons and daughters that serve our country as soldiers, doctors, firemen, policemen? I have no answer, it is a tough dilema, one that can not be solved by something as simple as just building a fence. I am not sure of the answer, but we have lots of Brazilian friends who have entered illegally, most have decent jobs and have saved money, are sending money home to their familes...but they would love to go home, why not some sort of guest worker program that leads to residency...is that such a radical idea? Why are Americans so fearful of people that are different than themselves, is it due to ignorance?

AES, I, and most of America honor your sons serving, you dishonor my daugter, but she is only 9, should she be drafted? I would not encourage my son or daughter to serve, it scares the crap out of me, but I would be proud of them if that was their decision. I can tell you one thing, they both love God and they pray every week for your kids, I do too. I am not naive, in fact the opposite, I know that there are people that would do us harm, but our policies have created more of them, not less. We have not been attacked again, for this I am grateful, but I think it is safe to say we will see another 9-11 one day. The same world who morned for us will now cheer, do you think we have some fault for that? Was it really necessary to isolate the US and lose our friends, diplomacy now is at the end of a gun, how many friends do you keep that way? Real freindship is based on trust, who can possibly trust American now?

I have no ill will towards Forest, but his rambeling must be challeged, if what he says is true, and that is very doubtful, although I do feel he believes it, he has created his own lot, not the governmenet, not the war, not God. I am sure if he was indeed a Marine (in doubt as well), he might have saw horrible things, but many of his Semper Fi brothers saw the same, in fact most, but they came home and used what they learned and took advantage of the opportunites offered to create better lives for themselves and their families. He squandered his opportunites and now lives in a state of regret unwilling to do something about it, should I feel sorry for him? Because that is what he wants. His postings are filled with self pity and weakness, so while I hold him no ill will, I have no respect for him either. If he wanted to make a better life for himself and his wife he could do so, he has the good fortune of being an American. He states heno longer wants his citizenship, but I'll bet he still holds his passport, talk is cheap. He reminds me of the guys on the corners here in Boca Raton with their hands out for a few quarters. What happened to them to become this way? Drugs, booze...a war, are we to blame? Nope, its their choice to be there, no one in America has to...same goes for Forest.

Last for AES and Forest
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
My name is Gary, I work as a Director of Sales & Marketing for a specialty chemical company, a globalized market. I make much more than $15K a year, own a big beautiful house in Boca, in fact the pool is being cleaned as I type this. I give 10% of my income to my church and am active in my chidrens activites, and yes, I was once a $25K a year volunteer "mercenary" for the US Army, an infantryman, not a submariner or a chopper pilot. I used the GI Bill to get a good education, Forest had the same opportunites as I did, he just chose to be one of those to carry a chip on his shoulder his entire life!

I don't need to go to foreign land just to have sex, I met my Brazilian born wife here in the US over 15 years ago, but you married a poor Brazilian girl down in Brazil...now are you not calling the kettle black. The Lufthansa flights into the north are packed with men going to have sex with children, that is Brazil's shame, I have seen it in Asia as well. I also agree with you that our Latin and South American polices have been "flops", buying and empowering tin horn dictators to do our will has caused the region to go left and the region is better for it, Uruguay and Argentina want to extridite Kissinger now, I hope they succeed.

It is naive to think we should not have a forward deployed military in strategic foreign bases, we just need to do so as friends not adveseries, I also agree we need to cut our dependence on oil, but will China and Russia, the fortunate thing is we have the technology to do so, now that American car makers are bankrupt, perhaps we will finally see new technology, you see capitalism will drive that change and we should have the balls to drill in our own untapped fields of sweet oil.

Guess, what? If you have not paid taxes for 10 years you are a criminal. Even if you have no, or a foriegn income, didn't you not know you have to file, or are you one of those wackos who feel taxes are "unconstitutional", even though you claim to be a Nam Vet (highly doubtful), we are a nation of laws, you get no free pass. I'm not "bent", you mean nothing to me, reading your pathetic posts are just a way to relax for a few minutes before I go out and take my wife to a nice dinner, go to work or take my son to soccer practice. If you are so damn smart, then come home, get a lawyer to deal with the IRS and find a job making more than $15K, hell you could make that on the night shift at McDonalds...and I also agree, your wife made a big mistake marrying you, but she can correct that too. You call me a stupid f**k, OK, I can live with that, but there is nothing stupid about what I have achieved, my morals and my thoughts that everyone is accountable for their own actions and choices, Forest has made his, so have you, if those are your choices PLEASE quit bitching about your lots if life
Ground pounders and Jarheads
written by Professor, April 07, 2007
I was in SAC,MAC & TAC a more civilized mercenary force led by Casper and Ronny.
We are not as quick to attack, we gently deliver our bombs and missiles..
Beer time, must run, ta.ta....
Professor
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
Spent my time in Panama with a TAC FAO team, I was a young SP4, driving the APC. Those A10's did a good job of keeping the G's undercontrol...thanks.
A10's
written by Professor, April 07, 2007
A10's, Prettiest deadliest ugliest thing you ever did see!
I spent most of my time on a RAF/USAF-F111-fb base waiting to drop
the nukes on Moscow, that the US./U.K. said we did not have on the base.
Most of the time was spent in NATO exercises, living in chemical warfare suits eating k-rations and watching the Brits head out to the Falklands. Thank GOD
for Pink Floyd and Jack Daniels and ration cards.
Whatever happened to the Cold War? It was so predictable, something you could rely on!
GTY: A mercenary among a litany of other things is a soldier that is salaried, to make a disdinction between an unpaid conscript, fulfilling an obligation of citizenship
written by AES, April 07, 2007
China
During the early stages of the Second Sino-Japanese War (before Pearl Harbor) America didn't want to become overtly involved in the conflict (due to a non-aggression pact with Japan), yet felt an obligation to assist the Chinese in stopping Japanese aggression. So the United States sent Claire Chennault to assist China and created the American Volunteer Group (AVG), better known as Flying Tigers. The pilots earned roughly $600-700 basic pay per month, plus an extra $500 per confirmed Japanese aircraft that was shot down courtesy of then the Chinese President Chiang Kai-shek.

I did not use the term pejoratively, I used it in the sense that we were reduced to paying, citizens, soldiers to participate in the defense of the Nation, because the Constitution forbade a standing army. It became a 'job' rather than a responsibility of citizenship. Even the Swiss require military service of their citizens. It is 'a priori' that every country demands of its citizenry obligatory military service. For us in the '70s it became the final cry of the 'anti war movement' 'hell no we wont go' and you cannot Constitutionally make us. The Press was high on its new found power of rabid investigatory skill, hell they had brought down Nixon. But these people were totally disconected to the geo political world, that Russia had not stopped, that Afghanistan had fallen, that the Shaw had fallen. The consequence of this new found 'freedom' to tell the government to go 'f**k' itself was 20% interest and a falling dollar (vis a vis gold which had risen in 1980 to $850). I remember Regan's first press conference, they were informed they would stand when he entered, they would behave with decorum, and they would treat him as the President of the United States. Not some schmuck. The press had become full of itself. That was stopped in the first press conference. Yeh I owned a hundred acers, quarter mile long drive, two acer stocked pond,streams, woods, deer, two story house, gate that I could close to the world. And I could shoot my rifle at my lake off my back deck anytime I chose.

I was glad when my sons chose to join the military. One because of the extraordinary opportunities that were afforded to them (monetarily) and that they would be watched, medically tended, and generally fed well, and made to heel while they transitioned between boys and men. They would learn things like responsibility, and they could figure out in their 4 or 6 year obligation what the f**k they wanted to do with their lives. They would be eligible for GI loans for property and houses with guaranteed mortgages, at low interest, without land you are suspended in a state of unreality; and guaranteed scholarship grants.

The first Desert Storm War was not over when it ended. The treaty was consistently violated for ten years, the country finally divided into three zones, and still he f**ked with his people. He was used as a buffer to Iran. The war in Iraq is not about Iraq it is about Iran. The Kobar Towers, the Kole, the American Embassies, Indonesia, global state terrorism. History is a hundred year yucca waiting to manifest the nature of its flower, it moves slowly, beyond the five year memory of the death of 3000 citizens one 911 morning. It is yet to be played. Look at China, once a marxest shadow now a burgeoning economy, if you have nothing you have nothing to lose. We plan twenty years out, beyond the attention span of 96% of our population. Not of it is unrelated. The original invasion was planned for 275,000, Rumsfeld overrode this and sent in 150,000. In turned out to be at best problematic, maybe it is all planned, I have read released CIA documents published from Georgetown University's Library that 25 years after the fact I had now idea were going on. 'When we want your opinion we will give it to you.'

There are multiple solutions to a singular problem. Truman was dispised, villified, mocked, and dropped an atomic bomb killing 100,000 to save a million American lives. Tough decision, hard times. And on and on. Regards

Now as to Forrest http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/9823/80/
AES
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
I think that we would probably agree more than we would disagree on most subjects. As far as Forest, I really wish him no ill, it just seems that many of his "issues" are self inflicted and that he blames everyone but the person he should for his lot. Perhaps, we don't know the entire story. If he would say that he is perfectly happy making $15K a year living with his Brazilian wife in Belize...then I would be the first to congratulate him. But if the reason he can't go back is because the IRS is looking for him for failure to file for ten years, then he has caused his own problems, not one else has caused them for him. He could Man Up, and resolve the outstanding issues, the IRS would work with him, find a real job that would allow his Brazilian wife to immigrate, you don't have to be rich...but I think the "real job" is the main issue with Forest.
GTY
written by forrest allen brown, April 07, 2007
usmc 1970 starting out pay $96 a month , but got a raise to $3.300 a year before leaving .in the marines we call them fighting holes .went to MCRD san deigo. as most people west of the mississippi do , and as far as the draft , 18 years out of high school you should have to serve ,any one that serves in the military should be the only able to vote for any thing
i make well over $15.000 a year but does not ever enter the USA , have to pay taxes to what ever country i am working in , a few years spent long time in UK try paying there taxes and then in US ,
I am doing what i want to do all over the world , did not end up with an 80 ft boat and several support craft by being stupid , my falt was to beleive in a captian in the brazilian navy named Kleber persik , then trusting in the law to show i was right . not in brazil if you are a gringo .
there are not to many places in this world i have not been out of my own pocket ,
i just spent 4 months in the states of texas and nevada , had a little job got my pass port redone no police came looking for me , clear police report when i picked up my texas drivers permit for another 10 years .
if you look at the world as i do we as a peoples all want better for our children than we had , but when the very same goverment takes away thoes rights from the people they are to serve , and become self serving , we should no longer owe them a living .
the needs of the many , out weigh the wants of the few .
all that i say or write has can and will be backed up by facts, i have a very small circle of friends that know me well ,
i never drink , never smoked , used drugs , just wanted to live out my life on the roamdeep , buy will have to get another one and do it again , but this time do unto others before they can do unto me .
what is a real job living 9 to 5 then dyeing at your desk after 25 years .
spending 20 years in the military then retiring and dyeing 2 years later
or just taking a chance at doing what you want to do and making a good living at it till it is taken away from you .
they all come to an end as we do on avrage 26,620 days
Good Luck
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
Hang in there Forest and good luck. It seems like you have lived three lives more than most, just be careful about who and what you blame. Surely not the US, we honor your service and your sense of adventure, there is help here should you need it. I read what happened to your boat, you are not the only Gringo screwed by Brazilian, in fact they are masters of it. I wrote in a previous post, that while I count many Brazilians as family and friends, I would never entirely trust one, they are an untrustworthy people, its built into there culture and their soul. The one exception has been my wife of 15 years, but her family and friends are shameless.

My success comes from helping my company keep from getting screwed by Brazilians. The deals I do are covered by cash in US accounts and lawyers in both countries, it pisses my Brazilian associates off that I keep them from being able to expolit a situation or corrupt a good deal, but I have made many of them rich the right way.

Living in Belize, answering to no one, keeping your self respect are all admirable, good luck and God Bless.
...
written by Ric, April 07, 2007
The possibility exists, Forest, that some guys are just jealous of you, your lifestyle or your mobility. They would naturally deny it. I personally would be bored stiff living in the states working at some job, or even running a small business. Like flying people from point A to point B for a living. Gets old fast.
To:GTY
written by João da Silva, April 07, 2007
GTY
written by forrest allen brown, 2007-04-07 19:43:46


Hi, I have been reading your posts in this thread re Forrest. Lots of people think he got a raw deal while in Brazil,by losing his boat "Roam Deep". It was his livelyhood and he lost everything inclduing the oictures of his mother and the deceased ex wife. He got married to a poor Brazilian lady again after a few years. I personally think that you have been very hard on Forrest, though you say you bear no ill will on him.

I think you and your wife will be able to help him to get back his boat. You mentioned that your late father-in-law was an Admiral in the Brazilian Navy. She or her mother should know many junior officers under his command who are occupying key posts now. Perhaps she could send an e-mail to one of them to initiate an investigation to find the whereabouts of his boat "Roam Deep" and all the items on board that disappeared. If I know anything about our military officers, they would be shocked to know what happened with Forest and his boat and certainly take action.

BTW, I have met many Americans who have been living outside their country and contributing to their host nations. However I find it repugnant that Forest was treated shabbily in Brazil ,just because he is a nomad American. When you mentioned about the 10% donation you make to your church, I remembered an American missionary lady Dorothy Stang who was in her 70s and murdered.

Thank you
Joao
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
My wifes father has had a senior Naval Officer looking out for his family since his death several years ago, his name is Admiral Jenuao (not sure if it is spelled correctly), he is a powerful man and I have been fishing with his son on his boat and his dinner guest at the Rio Yacht Club. Up until Lula's election, he was Deputy Secretary of the Navy in charge of all ports. He was recently retired because of a very interesting political move, all verifiable in the Brazilian press. He was up for Secretary of the Navy. He was against purchasing a submarine from the US, a nuke, he prefered to purchase a Brazilian class sub. His competitor for the position was for the American nuke. Lula choose the American made nuke and Jenuao was retired, my wife read me the press release. 20 years ago he was my wifes boss (got her the job as a favor to her father) when she worked at the Brazilian Embassy in DC. My wife has been in touch, as he has helped her drug addicited brother find help in a Naval hospital, and his wife and he have both fought off a bought of cancer. My wife is currently visting friends in California, she returns Monday, I will show her the article about Forest and let her make a decision.
PS
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
I was living in Rio when Sister Stang, as enviromentalist who loved Brazil was killed. How about the French social workers who were robbed and killed in there Copacabana office by a person they helped leave the favela, educated and provided a good job...it's hell there sometimes.
I never knew how to worship until I knew how to love.
written by forrest allen brown, April 07, 2007
yes people i have had a very good life , and i have had some very bad thing happen to me .
by believing in the law , by trusting law as we are taught in the USA and state of Texas , break it it will break you .

Brazil is a bit different . i found out the hard way .
but what happened to me is nothing compared to what happened to jack minick ,
he was in the south to have his boat build for $600.000 , it went 16 months longer to build and price in the splash was $1.6 million then the big problems started .
owners of Brazilian company had not paid taxes , or SS on employees . then the import taxes were not paid . so the boat sat in Brazil for 14 more months before he could get it out .
today he is in Nassau Bahamas going to cross to Florida and sell the boat.

And if any one could help with the roamdeep i have a full list of names and dates if it would help , also go look at the roamdeep papers as seen last month .
any time i get started on the roamdeep project i here a different story from the navy in JP and the naval chief in Fortaleza , but i ask them to back up there Prof but never get a reply
even the consular office in Brasilia thinks i took a hosing on the roamdeep deal .
when i came back to JP capt kleber persik was quickly moved to a different duty station , and i was never told where he went , but i know enough about naval badges to know he was a sub Mainer
...
written by conceicao, April 07, 2007
At least give the Brasilian navy credit for firing on one of Lincoln's ships. While I think failure to protect the property rights of U.S. vessel owners in Brasilian ports would be crazy and wrong,
it is nothing compared to the American government's committing a deliberate act of war in a Brasilian port in complete violation of Brasilian and international law. Maybe the Brasilian officials
that seemed so unwilling to help Mr. Brown have not forgotten about the attack on the Florida - and on Brasil - either.
TO:GTY
written by João da Silva, April 07, 2007
My wife is currently visting friends in California, she returns Monday, I will show her the article about Forest and let her make a decision.


Gary, I am very surprised that your wife decided to visit her friends in CA,leaving you all alone in FL,during the Easter Week end. I guess she took your two daughters along with her. It is interesting to note that my friend Forest is with his wife in Belize,Bo with his Brazilian wife, AES with his and Herr.Professor with his Brazilian wife who is an Euronut.

If your wife,after reading the material about the plight of "Roam Deep",does not want to make any decision,please do let us know. Our friend, Forest,who took a couple of bullets in his head in Vietam deserves a better treatment from our government,especially the Navy.

If I were your wife, I would activate her contacts with all the wings of of our armed forces to find out what exactly happened to "Roam Deep". BTW, I love the name of his boat.It does sound so mysterious and romantic. It reminds me of a book I read almost 40 decades ago. It was called "Run Deep,Run Silent".

As for Sis.Stang, it was sad.A cowardly attack on an elderly person who meant no harm to anyone.The same applies to the French NGO workers. I was shocked to hear that they were killed,by those "favelados" whose lives they wanted to improve-just like Sister.Stang.What is more saddening is that nobody has been held accoutable so far.

Never mind Gary, you have a great Easter Sunday and reflect on the nice friends you have made in this site.

Take care. If AES,Herr.Professor,Bo,Ric, "A Brazilian", Forest ,etc; bug you too much, give me holler.
Conceicao
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
Dude, the Florida incident happened in 1864! What have you done lately. In fact, even though the capture of the Florida happened in Bahia, the Brazilian Navy had nothing to do with it. The Florida was a Confederte ship, captured by the USS Wachusett. Brazil failed to intervene in any way as they did not recognize the Confederecy. The Florida was towed to sea by the Wachusett while the Brazilians watched. Several men aboard the Florida were killed and injured, Brazil did tend to their injuries and attempted to make repairs to the wounded ship.
To: Forest
written by João da Silva, April 07, 2007
I never knew how to worship until I knew how to love.
written by forrest allen brown, 2007-04-07 21:39:54



Forrest,it is Easter week end and time to reflect and think. I wish you and your wife a very happy Easter Sunday and enjoy the life given by our Lord.

You take care
To:Conceição
written by João da Silva, April 07, 2007
Maybe the Brasilian officials
that seemed so unwilling to help Mr. Brown have not forgotten about the attack on the Florida - and on Brasil - either


It happenned so long ago (1864) and we Brazilians have such short memory that I dont think Mr.Brown was penalized because of that episode.I would rather think it was due to pure ignorance and a desire to demonstrate their "Machismo" to humiliate Mr.Brown .

BTW, do you live in Brazil? I am asking this question because,you are not using the Brazilian Key board with ABNT 2 specs.
To:GYT
written by João da Silva, April 07, 2007
The Florida was a Confederte ship, captured by the USS Wachusett. Brazil failed to intervene in any way as they did not recognize the Confederecy.


The attitude of Brazil towards The Florida is what we call "ficar em cima do muro".I am happy to inform you and Conceição that our elected officials continue doing so. In case you didnt understand what "ficar em cima do muro" means, you better ask your wife when she gets back from CA

smilies/grin.gif
Joao
written by GTY, April 08, 2007
I know what it means literally, "Stay on Top if the Wall", but I do need a translation for context. My wife is a Brazilian Jew, I am an American one, no Easter for us. Two of my kids (daughter and son) are here with me, we will be fishing in the Florida Keys on our boat Sunday and Monday, my oldest son is up at college, he is a senior at Boston University...all three speak perfect Portuguese...mine sucks. My wife will be back on Tuesday, then it's back to the real world...it really is pretty good.

Geez, Forest, two rounds in the head? That explains a lot. Your a hero man.
...
written by conceicao, April 08, 2007
A little cursory research will show that the federal ship was fired upon. Similar research will show that diplomatic officials present at the port well knew that a federal and a Confederate ship
were docked with one ship between them and that the belligerent status (de facto recognition) that the Brasilian government had accorded the Confederacy legally protected the Florida and its sailors
while in port - straight incontrovertible international law. I bring up the subject to point out the vapidity of GTY's going on and on ad nauseum about the supposed lack of integrity of Brasilians
relative to Americans with frequent references to the Brasilian navy and Mr. Brown's situation with his vessel while apparently totally oblivious to the Florida incident which involved the Brasilians
operating with total integrity in accordance with any applicable international legal standard and then courage in firing on the U.S. vessel while the sneak attack by the federal ship was
undertaken with such complete contempt for the legalities involved that I doubt that the matter was ever resolved diplomatically. And, 143 years does not seem so long ago to me as my mother's first
cousin was flying out of the American airbase in Northeastern Brasil in WWII about 65 years - all sort of a continuum - and I also think that the BEF accorded itself with honor and integrity in fighting Hitler on the Italian front - so what's the point of criticizing Brasilian character based on nothing?

Joao, I accept your explanation above - I am just fed up with this endless anti-Brasilian drivel that smears too many people with too broad a brush and is totally contrary to my personal experience.
I live in the Southern U.S. - I am not Brasilian.
and somewhere, the Sphinx bangs its head against a wall
written by forrest allen brown, April 08, 2007
WE DO NOT BASH ALL BRAZILIANS we bash thoes whom need to be talked about we also talk well about each other . i have many fond thoughts about most brazilians and some i hope to live to be 100 and there himroids burn every day of the week .
i am an equail bashing person i go after the US goverment also , and just out right stupid things we do to each other on this 27.000 mile rock we all live on.
think 450.000.000 million cubic metric miles of water on this planet and no one wants to go back to steam power ? but china still builds steam cars for there rail services .
only one round nice shot oswald ,
...
written by bo, April 08, 2007
Unfortunately this reality is so true
written by Stephanie, 2007-04-06 18:54:22

And we Brazilians tend to give the most unacceptable excuses, such as: this is how things have always been, why should I be the one to try to save the country? or: Why should I care about politicians? I hate Politics so I don't mind who will be elected since all of them are corrupted.

I don't have statistics to prove Brazilian think and act like that, however, I've been observing people around me and I can say Brazilians don't seem to realize how exploited they are, how ignorant their decisions are when they vote, how unconcious of the cruel reality we are when we go to school. SHould I feel sorry for us? Not at all, this is the price we're paying for being so ridiculously unaware of what is going on with our own country.


Very impressed Stephanie, especially if you are a brazilian. I've met brazilians like you, although it's rare, especially here in the northeast of brazil. The first step in resolving any problem, or problems, is the acknowledgement that they exist, taking responsibility for them, and deciding what change(s) need to be made and then take action. Unfortunately there is a huge percentage of brazilians that refuse to take the very first step, and that's the very acknowledgement that problems exist.


...
written by bo, April 08, 2007
written by ch.c., 2007-04-06 13:51:22
But the first good ideas could be : accountability !
And so far there has been no accountability in Brazil and those who failed have not been penalized one way or the other.....these guys have been
re-elected.....by YOU !!!!!!!
Great isnt it ?



Although ChC can be monotonous, he's right on the money here. And although he may go overboard at times I can understand why he posts some of the things he does and the way he does. It can get frustrating when you try to talk to 180 million people about Godzilla stampeding down Avenida Paulista and everyone is saying, "What giant lizard?"
...
written by bo, April 08, 2007
written by GTY, 2007-04-06 20:08:40
Again, no country sends thier people here...we let them in.


Wouldn't go that far GTY, the U.S. is not just "letting them in". Many illegals have been caught, time and time again, only to try and try again. Countries that are the largest offenders need to be held responsible as well. But naturally the first initiative must come from our representatives in the U.S. congress. We need to get tough on U.S. employers with stiff fines and jail time and we also need to get tough with the countries that are the largest perpetrators. We certainly have the ability, we don't even need to send one soldier nor one politician. We have the economic means to cause devasting consequences in both Mexico (NAFTA), and brazil (we are their #1 importer doubling the amount of imports to their 2nd largest importer).

When countries like Mexico that are receiving 35 BILLION dollars a year in remittances from illegal workers in the U.S., when Brazils largest industry, or actually it's now tied as it's largest industry with soja, is brazilians outside of brazil sending monies made in other countries, the vast percentage made by "illegal" brazilians, there's not much of an incentive for the home gov'ts. of these countries to keep them at home. If the mexican and brazilian gov'ts. wanted to help the U.S. and reduce their citizens entering there illegally they certainly could. All one would have to do is do city wide raid in Governador do Valadares and they'd catch huge numbers of coyotes and people making false documentation. But as I stated before, these countries have a financial interest in their people being in the U.S. in mass.
...
written by bo, April 08, 2007
...
written by conceicao, 2007-04-08 01:17:22
Joao, I accept your explanation above - I am just fed up with this endless anti-Brasilian drivel that smears too many people with too broad a brush and is totally contrary to my personal experience.
I live in the Southern U.S. - I am not Brasilian.



Well conceicao you must have been with some very good people during your time in brazil, they do exist. And also, you must not have been spending or investing any large amounts of money. I'm talking about buying property, houses, businesses, etc. Believe me when I say I take no pleasure in stating this but I can take you to anyone of at least 100 gringos that have made "investments" in brazil, and everyone, without exception, has a "story" to tell about how he/she got rooked in some way, shape, or form.

I'm on my way to a condominium in my city right now where there are 63 beachfront homes, and 33 of those are owned by gringos. Their homes were "finished" within the last 4 months, actually all are not quite 100% finished as of yet. I put them in touch with a lawyer, one of mine, a very good one, as they have numerous problems, principally that none of them have yet to receive their "escritura" or deed and yet they have not only already paid the value that was stated on their contract, and at least four months ago, but have recently found out, with my help, that they were charged anywhere from 25% to 80% more than the 30 brazilian homeowners for the same homes in the same condominiums!!! The builder is not happy, he thought they would never contract a lawyer, the real estate agent, a brazilian whom I know quite well and met shortly after I moved to brazil, whom after I discussed this situation with him last week said to me, "tell them to get a lawyer if they think they have a case", then the very next day I took them to mine, and my lawyer called him asking him questions, he got nervous and stated, "Estou saindo esse negocio", in other words, "I'm getting out of this thing." And then a few days later when I see him next he says, "I don't think getting a lawyer was a good option for them."

Of course not, it's not a good option for him and the builder!


I've seen it time, and time, and time again. People here in brazil prey upon a gringo's "falta de conhescimento", or lack of knowledge of how the way things work in brazil, or of the market. Many have no qualms in trying to make a deal with whoever the gringo may have that is "helping" them. Offering to Pay them a "commission", in plain english it's a bribe, or "hush money". Many here in brazil think that people from the first world that are from countries that have microscopic numbers in relation to literacy when compared to brazil's and levels and quality of education vastly superior, stupid!!

And I don't want to hear some say, "well this happens in all countries". The hell it does, not like here, not as a matter of routine. When one goes to buy a home or a car in the U.S. they don't double the price because they hear you talking portuguese, or chinese, or french, or spanish.

I could go on for hours about this, from my own experiences and literally hundreds of others that I know or have met. Matter of fact within the next couple months I will be travelling to England and giving speeches on "what one needs to be aware of when purchasing or investing in brazil". Simply because I'm tired of hearing the heart-wrenching stories, it's disgusting and appalling and brazilians should really be ashamed. I can tell true stories about little old widows investing nearly everything they had and coming away with nothing! Gringos getting taken advantage of financially in brazil is not the exception, it is the rule. And it goes from paying fares to taxi drivers all the way to investing millions.
...
written by bo, April 08, 2007
as they have numerous problems, principally that none of them have yet to receive their "escritura" or deed and yet they have not only already paid the value that was stated on their contract, and at least four months ago, but have recently found out, with my help, that they were charged anywhere from 25% to 80% more than the 30 brazilian homeowners for the same homes in the same condominiums!!!



I forgot to add to this, and the builder is attempting to extort them for another 10,000 reais. He says its for taxes. I took one of the homeowners to the cartorio, she owes 3,000 reais in IPTU tax, that's it. Why the 10,000? And also, their homes were supposed to be delivered, get this, 2 years ago! And it states in their contract they will receive 10% of the cost of the home back if not delivered on or before the due date.


And once again, this is not just one situation with one builder, with one buyer, I can show examples from fortaleza to Sao Paulo.
HAVE KNOW fORREST FOR MANY YEARS,,,AND THE TRUTH HURTS,,,,,X-CAPTBILL OF THE "ROAMDEEP"
written by CAPTBILLNBRAZIL CRAWFORD,,THANKS FOR INFO, April 08, 2007
HAVING READ ALL THE TRUTH ABOUT "ROAMDEEP" AND BS FROM OTHERS ,,,,

I HAVE KNOW FORREST OVER 20 YEARS AND WAS HIS BOAT CAPTAIN FOR QUITE A FEW,,,,I BELIEVE THIS ROBBERY OF THE VESSEL "ROAMDEEP" IS GETTING OUT OF HAND,,,DOWN TO NAME CALLING,I DID THIS,YOU DID THAT ETC,,,

THE TRUTH IS ,,THE "ROAMDEEP" WAS ROBBED,TAKEN BY THE BRAZILIAN NAVY,FORREST WAS DEPORTED, VESSEL DISAPEARED, AND ALL HE WANTS IS JUSTICE AND HIS BOAT BACK,,,,,,,SIMPLE AS THAT,,,,

SO IF YOU CAN HELP,,DO SO,,,IF NOT READ AND STAY AWAKE,,,YOU MAY BE NEXT,,,YOUR CAR,HOUSE,ETC

REMEMBER THE "ROAMDEEP" WAS ROBBED ,,,IT STARTS THERE,,,,

ALSO THE NAME "ROAMDEEP" CAME FROM THE 2 OF US BEING SALVAGE DIVERS BACK IN THE FLORIDA,,,,WE ROAM ALL OVER THE CARRIBEAN AND DIVE DEEP,,,SO "ROAMDEEP",,,I LIKE IT,,,

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR ATTENTION,,,,,

CAPTBILL CRAWFORD,,X-CAPT OF THE VESSEL "ROAMDEEP"