Brazzil

Don't forget www.gingoes.com..Best site in English in Brazil and focused to SP

I cannot believe the rubbish of this article, it has to be written only by someone from Sao paulo itself. Lets take a look at some of the facts 1) Most of the tourists that "visit" SP never leave the airport!!! SP is now Brazil main gateway and almost everyone has to pass through here to go to Rio, Salvador or any other real tourism destination. 2) The city has horrible traffic problems, making a simple 25 mile commute a 2 hour odessy. 3) The restaurants are over priced and little value for the money .....shall I go on?? Well I could, but I will not.

If your thinking of visiting Brazil, please dont waste your precious time in the ugly, gray, overpriced city of São Paulo...Brazil has so much more to offer.

A Tourism Director based in Brazil

[qoute]Sao paulo is not worth the effort
written by Joseph, 2007-06-11 12:30:37
I cannot believe the rubbish of this article, it has to be written only by someone from Sao paulo itself. Lets take a look at some of the facts 1) Most of the tourists that "visit" SP never leave the airport!!! SP is now Brazil main gateway and almost everyone has to pass through here to go to Rio, Salvador or any other real tourism destination. 2) The city has horrible traffic problems, making a simple 25 mile commute a 2 hour odessy. 3) The restaurants are over priced and little value for the money .....shall I go on?? Well I could, but I will not.

If your thinking of visiting Brazil, please dont waste your precious time in the ugly, gray, overpriced city of São Paulo...Brazil has so much more to offer.

A Tourism Director based in Brazil

In 2006, São Paulo overcame Rio de Janeiro in terms of number of international events, according to data from the International Congress and Convention Association (ICCA). The capital of São Paulo ranked 18th, with 54 international events, ahead of Rio de Janeiro, traditionally the best ranking Brazilian city, which ranked 26th, at 48 events.

Brazil as a whole ranked seventh with 207 international meetings. It is worth noting that the ranking only includes events that meet the ICCA criteria - among them, having more than 50 participants, and having been held in other countries before. But to judge from the São Paulo Convention & Visitors Bureau, come 2008, the city will occupy the 10th position in the ranking.

Do tourism directors lack reading comprehension?

One of the things you will notice if you care to learn about Brazil is that Rio and Bahia believe to have a monopoly on "Brazil". So they feel offended if someone says that any other state is more popular. Not sure where they get such ideas from, since the northeast doesn't contribute much to this country, and never did, and Rio is a decadent and corrupt place.

Do tourism directors lack reading comprehension?

Joseph , the Tourism Director does not lack reading comprehension. What he really says is true.Lets analyse what he says:

1) Most of the tourists that "visit" SP never leave the airport!!! SP is now Brazil main gateway and almost everyone has to pass through here to go to Rio, Salvador or any other real tourism destination

Absolutely true in the case of inbound as well as outbound travellers. The last time we traveled outside Brazil, our flight from the South was booked at 7 A.M to leave for S.Paulo. The International flight was to depart at 9 P.M. We reached S.Paulo at 8 A.M and had to spend 13 hours at the airport! Of course, the domestic airlines could have put us on a later flight,but they insisted that we spent some "Quality time' in S.Paulo. We ended up spending this quality time at the airport warding off the people who wanted to sell subscriptions to the Magazines and other folks who could easily enter into the airport to peddle anything they wanted.

The city has horrible traffic problems, making a simple 25 mile commute a 2 hour odessy

That was precisely the reason we did not want to get out of the airport in S.Paulo.

3) The restaurants are over priced and little value for the money

Absolutely correct

If your thinking of visiting Brazil, please dont waste your precious time in the ugly, gray, overpriced city of São Paulo...Brazil has so much more to offer.

Another true statement.Brazil has so much more to offer and all the inbound and outbound passengers are forced to go through the city, just to stimulate the economy of the city.

I keep on saying that our country need to upgrade our airports in the interior to International status to give more options to the Tourists.If the Brazilian Airlines dont want to use them as hubs, I am sure the International Airlines would be willing to do so.

So, Joseph, you hit the nail right on the head and my congratulations.

I was visiting Brazil for the first time last year, and was enroute from Rio to Aguas de Lindoia via SP. We spent about10 hours in SP and it sucked. Went to the big central park, the indoor marketplace, an expensive restaurant, and got driven around by a taxi and "guide." There is nothing about the city I want to go back to.......on second thought, only if one of those beautiful slender long legged girls took me in........

Ohhhhh yesssssss, hundreds of favelas in every large city !
And in the Northeast the risk is even higher than in Southern Brazil.
The risk of being robbed, assaulted and eventually killed is the daily life !
And the US Embassy in Brazil, issued a travel warning....just a few months ago ! The warning stated that several American Women were raped while in Brazil !

Curious isnt it ? Or rather normal...in Brazil ?

Ohhhhh...and the Brazilian outgoing tourists are more important than the incoming foreign tourists !

Yessssss.....your tourism account is in deficit !
Looks like that even Brazilians tend to prefer more and more foreign countries instead of Brazil.
I suppose they know why.

And has one of the Rio tourism dept chief not said that Rio is as safe as any large cities in the world ?
Sorry.....it was propaganda once more....and once more full of lies !

Every publsihed description of SP and Rio says that they are one of the most violent cities....IN THE WORLD !

And in the Northeast the risk is even higher than in Southern Brazil.

Not really. In the South we like to BBQ the Swiss Tourists.

Ah, you Gringo's are intimidated by one of the world's best cities. Yes it is big, and it is hard to get around, but if you know the city, or are with someone who does...Sao Paulo rocks. Now if I was planning a vacation, it would not make my stop list, but because I have to spend so much time there...I have found many treasures.

I usually stay in Morumbi, but the eating establishments and clubs are awesome, and while the women of SP dress and act different than Carioca's, they are friendly, and beautiful. There is traditional ethnic food in the Italian, Japanese and Arab neighborhoods, even the large Jewish area near Santa Catarina. If you know where to look, you can have a fine meal without breaking the bank, but if you do have the corporate card don't miss La Figura, an Argentine steakhouse in Jardims, built around a huge fig tree...the wine list does not have a bottle under US$100.00, same for the Familia Manchini joint, but the food is priced right and the helpings are huge, be prepared to wait for an hour or more on the weekends.

There is the shopping, only in Hong Kong can you find better suits and shoes for men, there are a ton of high end malls...but who has time. The clubs are...well, you just can't do them justice by trying to explain, they are places you have to visit, with Clube Bahamas being a stop on every visit. The girls there could come right out of Playboy and they most speak some English for the gringos.

Yes, for those that are willing to adventure, Sao Paulo can be a memorable indeed!

You forgot to mention about Clube Bahamas!

You planning to run for the Mayor´s job next year, GTY?

Sorry, you did mention about Clube Bahamas. My apologies.You must be the majority stock holder of this CLUBE,the way you promote it

The Bahamas club is full of program girls, and the suits and mens clothing is s**t, pure and simple. be careful your maid does not throw your Jones of New York suit in the laundry machine, believe me it happens !!! Taxi drivers don't have a clue were they are going..no english of course.. and, and ,and.

Joao,

Joseph claimed the article was proposing rubbish. In essence that means the article was wrong on its propositions. According to the ICCA the city of Sao Paulo over took the city of Rio de Janeiro in terms of numbers of international events. This has jack to do with a side rebuttal you Joseph make as to how many passengers disembark at the Sao Paulo airport.

And what does traffic have to do with giant cities like New York and Sao Paulo which both carry major weight and cosmopolitan lifestyle in their respective countries? I've driven in both Milwaukee and New York and I can tell you New York has far worse traffic issue than Milwaukee and New York is probably 3 times more expensive than Milwaukee. Guess what? New York lures more tourism and international events to its city than Milwaukee could ever dream of. Bottom line.

For Mayor of Clube Bahamas! D Daddy is probably a narrow minded Gringo intent on finding something wrong no matter where he goes...the problem is he has no clue about Sao Paulo, or Brazil in general. I'll take SP tp NY any day!

I've driven in both Milwaukee and New York and I can tell you New York has far worse traffic issue than Milwaukee and New York is probably 3 times more expensive than Milwaukee. Guess what? New York lures more tourism and international events to its city than Milwaukee could ever dream of. B

It is interesting that you mentioned this fact. I have also driven through Milwaulkee and the traffic is quite orderly. You are right, NYC is 3 times more expensive than Milwaukee. Since we Brazilians dont have the same purchasing power as you guys have, Milwaukee is perfectly the right place place for us. Been to NYC also and I didnt have the guts to drive around that city which I found exactly like S.Paulo ( I was driven around in NYC,courtesy of a friend of mine). Expensive,but it has more interesting things to see and enjoy.

Like Milwaukee, we have several cities in the South that do have better quality of life and less expensive than the city of S.Paulo. So when Joseph mentioned that the article was rubbish, probably he over reacted,but I think that he was contesting the fact that S.Paulo was a Tourist´s paradise. Like NYC and Bombay, SP was and is an industrial city and there is no point in pretending otherwise.Imagine Bombay trying to bring in tourists from overseas?

btw, a few years ago, I drove from Chicago to the Cove´s county (?) , through Milwaukee and we enjoyed the scenic route. Last month, when we were driving through the "Mata Atlantica" of our state, my wife reminded me of that drive.

Besides, remember that Wisconsin produzes some fine beer and I dont think that the state of New York can match the quality! I think that only state that can compete with Wisconsin is Arizona where the original Coors came from!.

In a nutshell, I would rather be in Milwaukee than in S.Paulo.

I'm running Joao

Run. I am sure the good Prof can organize a campaign for you,since he knows all the "botecas" in Sampa. D (or Sugar?) Daddy can get lots of votes for ya from those voluptous wenches in that club. May be D(S) Daddy should run as the vice president of this exclusive club.After all he is the owner of the site www.gingoes.com. Daddy can be a formidable ally in our efforts to elect you as "El Presidente"

What? E harm doesn't find the Milwaukee scene entertaining enough? Hard to believe. Justin was likely at Festival Park this past weekend em Parada. Wouldn't have recognized him though - his makeup job was likely to perfection, you know how he just appreciates the heck out of some things Brazilians are world famous for.

Rush hour in Milwaukee is still only a 1/2 hour long. Basically you can get from anywhere to anywhere safely in 40 minutes or less (that's 15-28 miles end point to end point not kilometers!!!) and no matter what your flavor the Festas com musica livre go on all summer long. Usually you can find a free park entry ticket courtesy of some brewer, CokeCola or a food pantry asking for a simple dry goods / canned goods donation. Besides, 20 minutes and you're out in the open country on your Hog with jack to care about cept' possibly hitting a deer at dusk (or showing up at the same cross roads bar as your wife).

Gee, the Brazilian taxi drivers don't speak any English...don't be such a pussy, how about learning a few words of Portuguese. How many Arab taxi drivers in NY speak any Portuguese? Or even passable English for that matter. I can see you now, on the beach in Rio, black socks and tennis shoes, asking a hotel doorman for the nearest Micky D's. There are tourists and travelers...guess which one you are??

I'm kinda disappointed at the ignorance I've read in some postings. I haven't been to Brazil, but I do know that Salvador (Bahia) was your first and colonial capital, and of more historical significance than today's more popular cities of Rio and Sao Paulo, contrary to a reader who wrote that the northeast had never contributed. Also, I understand Salvador has one of the lowest crime rates in the whole of South America, and especially compared to Rio and Sao Paulo. Bahia is also the heart of black Brazil (which is pretty much every Brazilian to some degree) Did you check out the msn list of hottest places to visit in 2007?? Salvador da Bahia was No. 9 and was the only Brazilian city on the list. Stop hiding your blacks and celebrate Bahia.

Joao,

It is cool if one prefers Milwaukee over Sao Paulo, but that is not the point of the articles assertion of the direction and development of tourism in Sao Paulo, especially in relation to the cities ICCA compared it to (whatever cities those may be - apparently Rio de Janeiro was one of them).

There are some people in the United States who prefer to live in Milwaukee over New York, Chicago, or L.A. Then again there are many who would and do prefer those large international cities to the more parochial mid-size city of Milwaukee. I have no major beef with Milwaukee personally but within a few areas to its culture, politics, and economy. Milwaukee in the summer is one of the most festive cities I've ever experienced in the U.S. - ethnically and even down to the level of block ("block parties"). It's much like New York in that way. However, Milwaukee is a small city with a small mind to the world, it is less ambitious than cities like New York and Sao Paulo - and of course it is without doubt much, much, smaller than those two large cities. You could fit Milwaukee into a thumb print of the titan hand of Sao Paulo.

Milwaukee, Joao, no longer is a large beer producer. There are a number of micro-breweries but there is only one large brewery left, and that company, "Miller," is now owned by a South African firm I believe. Most industries in Milwaukee have left for overseas or the U.S. South. Milwaukee was never a large white-collar city, it was mostly blue-collar to the core. There are little opportunities to gain white-collar employment (of high wages at least), with upward mobility, in Milwaukee. Most educated young people leave Milwaukee they don't come to it. Sao Paulo on the other hand drives much of the Brazilian economy, is an international city, and produces fashion and trend. When was the last time you heard of Milwaukee producing any fashion or even being known as a place to put on fashion shows? Young educated Brazilians can seek capitalistic fortune in Sao Paulo. Young folks in the U.S. can seek it in Chicago or New York - but who in the h*ll in 2007 seeks it in Milwaukee? Milwaukee is a city culturally proud of two things (besides beer): it's blue-collar past and its strong socialist past. If you like "scenic" sh*t in Milwaukee, per city planning that is, then you are probably admiring the fruits of the socialist leaders and socialist backers that produced it by city money and legislation. All those parks in Milwaukee are the product of all those former socialist Germans that use to live in the city.

Frankly, Sao Paulo bests Milwaukee in scope of entertainment, capitalist pursuits, restaurants, theaters and over-all fast lane cosmopolitan life. If one can not "make it" so to speak in the cut-throat capitalist environment of Sao Paulo, then they likely will not do well in Milwaukee as there is little employment opportunity for big-boy capitalism in Milwaukee.

As for tourism: Sao Paulo is far more like New York and Chicago than Milwaukee is like those two cities. So it depends on what one is looking for. If one prefers to visit a small parochial town that is more inward looking and lacks capitalist sophistication (such as the tailored grooming of the Stock Market folks) then they will have a hard-on for Milwaukee. If they like capitalist, "piss on the poor," fine restaurants, luxury suits, top dollar Italian cut suits, and tight-a** women under the arm, then they will like visiting Sao Paulo no doubt over Milwaukee (if they can afford to travel in that company in Sao Paulo).

Jo Jo
written by Simpleton, 2007-06-11 23:51:10
What? E harm doesn't find the Milwaukee scene entertaining enough? Hard to believe.

I never made that assertion. I spoke to the observable fact Milwaukee is no where on the international or capitalistic scale and class of titan international cities like Sao Paulo - or of New York.

Rush hour in Milwaukee is still only a 1/2 hour long. Basically you can get from anywhere to anywhere safely in 40 minutes or less (that's 15-28 miles end point to end point not kilometers!!!) ...

That is not entirely true. Damn the far South Side, one can spend just an hour attempting to drive from the near South Side to the far North Side during rush hour on city streets. And as most work is now in other counties like Waukesha, you will frequently spend an hour getting back into the city through congested highway traffic during rush hour (note the same is true of all the people living in Waukesha, but working the best and most high paid jobs in downtown Milwaukee, leaving back out the city in the opposite direction).

While car crashes are common in the city, I will say few people dieing in car crashes in Milwaukee or on the highways within the metro region.

But really, high money ballers I doubt, aren't looking for where in the h*ll they can drive easily through or bicycle through. You want that you may come to Milwaukee, or better yet De Moines, Iowa or Charlotte, North Carolina. People don't go to big capitalist cities like New York or Sao Paulo for "Leave It To Beaver" family day or the superb biking trails. They go for their cut-throat fast life, for some of the best tits and a**, for the glitter of gold on the young "dons" wrists, and the greed in the hearts of the wealthy made evident in their smirks.

I'm kinda disappointed at the ignorance I've read in some postings. I haven't been to Brazil, but I do know that Salvador (Bahia) was your first and colonial capital, and of more historical significance than today's more popular cities of Rio and Sao Paulo, contrary to a reader who wrote that the northeast had never contributed. Also, I understand Salvador has one of the lowest crime rates in the whole of South America, and especially compared to Rio and Sao Paulo. Bahia is also the heart of black Brazil (which is pretty much every Brazilian to some degree) Did you check out the msn list of hottest places to visit in 2007?? Salvador da Bahia was No. 9 and was the only Brazilian city on the list. Stop hiding your blacks and celebrate Bahia.

This is not ignorance, it is a fact. They have always been backwards, they were in favor of the portuguese when Brazil was seeking independence, they were in favor of slavery while many in the south were trying to abolish it, and you still find today traces of the old patriarcal society in some places there where the "coronel" rule everyone. I invite you to learn about brazilian history in order to clear out these misconceptions you have. Salvador is not and never was the heart of Brazil, and definitely is not representative of this entire country.

BTW, the first brazilian city was São Vicente in the state of São Paulo. The significance of São Paulo, and of the southeast in general, to the construction of Brazil is much greater than that of the northeast. The northeast is more of a weight we need to carry around, I guess because of their "ass-shaking" culture. If they were a bit more intellectual then this country would evolve faster.

But if all you seek is "beer, women and ass-shaking" then Salvador is not that bad. It's a matter of values.

By the way, José Bonifácio, the brazilian equivalent of a founding father of the country was born in Santos (in São Paulo) and died in Rio.

"But if all you seek is "beer, women and ass-shaking" then Salvador is not that bad. It's a matter of values. "

What a great tourism slogan "if you value beer, women and ass-shaking, then Salvador is not that bad", where do I sign up??

Actually I prefer the "intellectually challenged" North East to Salvador. If its time off for vacation Brazil has so many great choices...last year we went to Trancoso and Bonita. But I have to be honest, Rio has worn thin, I visit both Rio and Sao Paulo frequently on business and know both well...give me Sao Paulo anyday, much more "civilized". The interior of Sao Paulo State looks like the Central Valley of California, including the brand new roads and huge agri-business. Carioca's still rely on Carnaval and sex tourism to generate wealth, they will screw you for a nickel, both figuritvly and literally.

Give me a break. SP is loaded with whores and sex tourists. It just covered up much better than Sal and RJ. S##t is like a plague now all over Brasil. Try getting on an elevator with some of those jacka$$e$. It's a no brainer that more industry rolls through SP than RJ tourist industry.

The country becomes civil when the elite spend money hlthcare reform, secondary education for the poor, open the doors for poor young males...so crime isnt open, eliminate prostitution and cut back on their own pensions

The "elite" nonsense just gives a hint about your political views. Everyone should have his own sense of duty and pursue education by their own will and conscience. What the government needs to do, not the elite, is to make quality education available. Then it's up to the person to be successful. See? No "elites" involved.

I wouldn't be so harsh on Brazil about whores because what we see in the US and Europe is the "de-christianization", where it is "cool" to have behavior considered immoral among christians. With 300 million inhabitants the US has the potential to become a much bigger whorehouse.

And, yes, Rio and Salvador are the preferred locations for sex tourism, you like it or not. Perhaps you should tell where have you been in Sao Paulo for getting to such conclusions. Some night club? Would you expect to find nuns or virgins in such places? Simply genius, he went to the market, where the pieces of meat are exposed for others to choose from, and then, surprise, found whores. Haha

Give up, Sao Paulo is the economical center of Brazil. They produce almost 1/3 of all the wealth of this country. Are you saying that most people don't go there on business trips but for "sex tourism"? Haha

Thank you so much for updating me about the situation of Milwaukee and I did enjoy reading about it. My question: Your comments describe the current situation of just the city or the entire state of Wisconsin?

I find the comments from various readers on this article exremely interesting,including yours. As GTY put it very well, there is a difference between a "Tourist" and a "Traveler". These two categories can be divided into various sub segments also. So if you really look at it, the business travelers who go to cities like S.Paulo, NYC,Chicago,London, Paris,etc turn "Tourists" after the business hours and the cities have nice things to offer. On the other hand, you have "Tourists" who go on packaged tours to certain places expecting something different or to tell their neigbors that they have gone to different places within and outside their countries. In this case they dont learn anything about the culture of other people and tend to streotype them all. A pefect example would be to classify the Brazilian culture to be "beer,women and ass shaking",by visiting just a few places and not caring to understand nor appreciate our culture,geography and other good things we have.

As for me, I dont like to go on package tours (even in Brazil) and I like my independence to drive around,walk,appreciate the nature,smell the seasons and the flowers,watch the birds and animals and appreciate others culture and listen to folklores of nice people sharing drinking cold ones. Of course, we have several places to go to and feel good as travelers or tourists.Brazil is a huge country and it is not just the beaches of Rio or Salvador or the fine restaurants of S.Paulo.We may not have Mickey Ds in small places,but one can find tasty food in clean and comfortable snack bars.

Thanks for the insight A brazilian. I am African of part Portuguese-Brazilian origin and you must understand my bias. To most of the outside world, it is the culture of Bahia that is representative of Brazil. I have been to Europe and North America and now live in North America and even here, it is the culture of black Brazil that people associate Brazil with and not that of Europe (Portugal) though Brazil is a blend of both cultures. It is easy for you to condemn Bahia today as backward because money talks in this day and age and it's where the money's at that counts.Slavery, wrong as it was, fueled the Brazilian economy for centuries and sad to say is the only reason Brazil has any relevance today.

I can see you now, on the beach in Rio, black socks and tennis shoes

It is no longer black socks and tennis shoes. I heard that our PF is insisting that the Europeans wear black socks and Havaianas while going through the Immigration and Customs and be dressed in these attire while in Brazil. I can visualize the machiavellic Professor´s role in bringing in the new rules.

So the Europeans in general and Swiss in particular have to wear Black socks and Pink Havaianas, when they visit Brazil.

To most of the outside world, it is the culture of Bahia that is representative of Brazil. I have been to Europe and North America and now live in North America and even here, it is the culture of black Brazil that people associate Brazil with and not that of Europe (Portugal) though Brazil is a blend of both cultures.

Whatever you might think doesn't change the reality.

Slavery, wrong as it was, fueled the Brazilian economy for centuries and sad to say is the only reason Brazil has any relevance today.

No, it was the industrialization of the first half of the 20th century that did, otherwise Brazil would be just a "big farm". The problem with the culture from Bahia and the culture publicized worldwide as "Brazilian" is that it is a very low one. It's praised, but from a purely anthropological point of view or just out of "political correctness", the same way a culture of some primitive tribe from the middle of the Amazon would be.

In this case the afro-culture is seen as an interesting object, just that. Europeans and americans would never expect to learn anything from it because it is an object.

On the other hand when you think of Germany you think of Goethe, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and others. When you think of England you think of Shakespeare. When you think of Italy you think of Da Vinci, etc. Do you see the difference? You don't read Goethe and see it as an object, you see him as a master!

Those cultures, real cultures, are a glimpse of the genius and a statement: this is what this people is capable of. It's not due to the lack of talent that Brazil is not known similarly, since we have many great philosophers, writers and artists, that would exemplify perfectly the "brazilian genius", but due to a systematic dumbing down of Brazil performed by the government.

So all it shows of Brazil for gringos are advertisements of half-naked women on beaches and half-naked people dancing on the streets. This afro stuff is trash and this afro-centrism is gets to everyone's nerves. Do you know what is to live with low self esteem people that will make stupid claims in the hope of getting attention? They don't need to be recognized, what they need is education and the supervision of a shrink. They should give up on this glorification of stupity and show their geniuses to the world, then they would be respected as masters, not falsely respected as objects.

This "Brazil" from the gringo's minds is pathetic, even for brazilian standards.

The German institute responsible to spread the German culture around the world is called "Goethe institute". The Spanish one is "Cervantes Institute", the Portuguese "Camões Institute". If we had one what would it be? "Samba, Football and Sex" Institute? Haha

The hell with this non-sense.

Notwithstanding the negativity I read on this site, I still am a big fan of Brazil and probably will always be (maybe until I finally pay a visit) For myself and many Africans, it remains a part of our history and influences our culture greatly. Modern day development is a whole nother story. Even the U.S. became really industrialized after slavery but would you say that the centuries of free labour from the Africans played no part in this development? The Europeans have always presented their culture differently from Africans or Latin Americans and as these Westerners control the media, we only see what they present to the world, which is quite unfortunate. If I saw a Brazilian cultural centre located next door to a Geothe institute and I had only a half hour to spare, do you think I would even contemplate going into Geothe?? Hell no. Brazil, whether you like it or not is a migrant nation, with the exception of the Amerindian. Presenting the Euro culture as yours would be false because it is a corrupt version of the Portuguese culture that you have. Even the Portuguese language as it is spoken in Brazil I understand is different. I personally don't buy into the gringos perception of Brazil as it is only one-sided. Everytime I mention that I would love to visit Brazil, people automatically assume its for the girls. I tell them that would be nice, but it's also the land of some of my ancestors and that's what draws me to Brazil.There are beautiful women everywhere.

The Portuguese language is just one, what changes are the accents the same way an English sounds like an English and an American from Texas sounds like an American from Texas, and an American from New York sounds like an American from New York, but they all speak English. With the Portuguese language the same happens. The only difference are of the same kind you find between British English and American English, some words have a different spelling.

This thing of "different language" is another cliché used to discredit the European heritage, or simply by some reaction Americans were conditioned to, the one of dividing peoples. The "Disunited States of America" is a country of many ethniticies and each call themselves something other than "American", and some are even proud of not speaking English. For a mind used to it it's unconceivable that a country like Brazil would have only Brazilians speaking the same language as the Portuguese.

This is another point the mind of Americans are stuck, they can't conceive that a country would create its own culture, they believe you are forever connected to something elsewhere, even if your family have been here for hundreds of years. They call it "be proud of your origins", bah. Pathetic. My only origin is Brazil and since the beginning it started differently, not just a copy of the Portuguese one. You just can't separate things! That must be why you feel related to English somehow.

BTW, last time I checked on the map Brazil is on the western hemisphere. There's no such thing of "corrupt" version of any culture, because the Brazilian culture is the Brazilian culture, that European one is in the past. The only thing I am saying is that the Brazilian culture is not the "Brazilian culture" as portrayed in the half naked advertisement you saw or pursued fanatically by the baianos or cariocas of "samba, football and sex".

If by "Westerners" manipulating the media "white americans" it is still wrong. There's a deliberate policy from the leftists in Brazil to portray culture as a "people's expression". The high culture is seen as "the bourguese culture" and together with the "bourguese religion and morals" (i.e., catholicism) it must be destroyed. They are rewriting history, glorifying the stupidity and painting Brazil in different colors for their Communist goals.

You may have created a fantasy for yourself about Brazil, but it still doesn't change the reality. Sorry.

More concisely, Brazil is in the process of shaping up as a civilization on its own merit and you are not helping. For that we need real worthy people and not mindless idiots dancing. Wishing otherwise is unnatural, as if a man could live its entire life in the mother's womb and never needed to be born. Africa, Europe, Asia, etc are in the past, and they should stay there, so this country can grow.

I respect your opinion and I think I understand what you're saying. Forming a "Brazilian" civilization does not mean forgetting your roots. Brazil is a new world nation and like I said earlier, if you're not Amerindian, you are descended of immigrants (willing and unwilling) who came to Brazil anything from last year to 400 years ago. Whether you like it or not, that's the truth and that's the way it will always be seen during our lifetime. I don't dispute the fact that you are a Brazilian citizen, but you must be Amerindian for you to say your origins are only in Brazil. I have plans to visit Brazil next year for about a week and for me would be a dream come true. Brazil might not be as "nice" as other countries that I've been to or live but it would be a great spiritual experience for me. Brazil is also emerging as a world player and it makes me smile (I don't even know why, lol). In any event, Portuguese folks have told me that the language as it is spoken in Brazil is more than just the accent difference. Standard English (British) and US English are also more different than just the accent, though the same language.

Slangs, expressions, some words are more used than the others, the grammar is the same. Same language.

Forming a "Brazilian" civilization does not mean forgetting your roots. Brazil is a new world nation and like I said earlier, if you're not Amerindian, you are descended of immigrants (willing and unwilling) who came to Brazil anything from last year to 400 years ago.

You are incorrect, having an identity is not just a biological factor, as Americans think, since such identity is largely dependent in bonds created with certains groups of people and social context. And adding mixing to the story even complicates things even more, since the visual identification that might eventually occur due to physical characteristics is not possible. Only recent immigrants knows for sure their places of origin, have not mixed with others, and still have contact with the old country and family. For all the rest Brazil is the only root because they don't even know what ancestors they have.

If by "roots" you mean genetic code then it means nothing for your current situation.

For such "roots" system to work it would be needed the constant cultivation of the old culture and the prevention from mixing, which is detrimental for the development of the people as one people and racist. That's why Brazil is a country of one people and the US is a country of many peoples, which will unite only when attacking others.

To:E Harmony/ Milwaukee
written by João da Silva, 2007-06-12 14:02:58
Thank you so much for updating me about the situation of Milwaukee and I did enjoy reading about it. My question: Your comments describe the current situation of just the city or the entire state of Wisconsin?

Only Milwaukee, or some key post-industrial cities in southern Wisconsin, or both Milwaukee and the entire state of Wisconsin depending on what subject one is talking about.

Wisconsin has lost it claim to being the dairy capital to California, and Wisconsin farmers now say they will in the coming decades be shut out of business from the massive farmers being created in Brazil. Most of Wisconsin, like every other state in the United States, is mostly rural, but most people live in the cities. Frankly, the culture between "Wisconsin" and Milwaukee are extremely different, minus both historical emphasis on "hard work." Milwaukee, though a mid-size city and very parochial, is nonetheless fairly cosmopolitan, and has inherited many cultural traits from Chicago due to much sharing and communication between the two. When Ice Berg Slim started pimping he did so in Milwaukee and then moved to Chicago and became big time. The La Cosa Nostra in Milwaukee never stat on the "board" and always answered to Chicago. The political and business leaders of Milwaukee in conjunction with the air port in Milwaukee, markets the city as "Chicago's Third Airport." Almost everyone in Milwaukee has family in Chicago. People in Milwaukee dress more like people in Chicago or Detroit than they do to people in L.A. or New York. But, Milwaukee has none of the ambition, innovation, or white-collar prows of a city like Chicago, Sao Paulo, New York, or London or Tokyo. Milwaukee is not international and does not really care what is going on outside Milwaukee - unless of course it directly effects her in a major way.

Madison, Wisconsin is the second biggest city in Wisconsin and the state capital. It is a college town, and nationally UW-Madison is known as one of the biggest party universities, consequently Madison is something of "party town" itself. Madison is a world leader in bio-technology, but outside of that there is not much major white-collar employment. It use to be, that Milwaukee generated a lot of revenue in that it drove a respectable percentage of that state's economy. Now, the state of Wisconsin has to help financially support the city of Milwaukee to stop it from collapsing.

I find the comments from various readers on this article exremely interesting,including yours. As GTY put it very well, there is a difference between a "Tourist" and a "Traveler". These two categories can be divided into various sub segments also. So if you really look at it, the business travelers who go to cities like S.Paulo, NYC,Chicago,London, Paris,etc turn "Tourists" after the business hours and the cities have nice things to offer. On the other hand, you have "Tourists" who go on packaged tours to certain places expecting something different or to tell their neigbors that they have gone to different places within and outside their countries. In this case they dont learn anything about the culture of other people and tend to streotype them all. A pefect example would be to classify the Brazilian culture to be "beer,women and ass shaking",by visiting just a few places and not caring to understand nor appreciate our culture,geography and other good things we have.

I'm no expert on issues of tourism, but I do know Milwaukee has over the last few recent years, dramatically invested in building a "convention center" and advertising to attract business travelers. Supposedly this is suppose to be were a large amount of tourism revenue can be generated now-a-days in cities. So I would see no reason why it would not be the same regarding Sao Paulo.

The sons of immigrants in a country like the US must live in some sort of purgatory, they are just stuck and can't go either way. They aren't considered Americans because of their origin, but they also don't have contact with their supposed countries of origin. Can you imagine this situation after 4 generations? The people that might have had any direct contact with some other culture will be dead, the individual will speak the local language only and will have no contact with the other country.

In Brazil you don't hear people questioning the Brazilianity of anybody because of their looks. Except the obvious immigrants that have some strong accent, the rest is just considered Brazilian. The ones that like to talk about their "origins" do it out of free will, nobody obligates them to do so.

I do not agree on the point of having roots only when you have family contact with your country of origin. If you are black, or afro-descendante as you call it in Brazil, your roots are in Africa period. I am not saying that you are socialized exactly as a continental African is but the truth is your way of life still shows traits of Africa from your skin colour and racial features to your religious practices of Africa or Catholicism or a mix of both as I've seen. Your roots my dear are determined by your race and DNA. While Brazilians are probably one of the nicest folks I've met, I don't get a sense of "Brazilian Pride" necessarily from them as I do the Americans or the French. Your assertion that because the US is a racially segregated society, the children of immigrants are not considered Americans is completely false. Brazilians may not appear to question one another's identity because they have been taught to see themselves really as Brazilians and have cross-bred so much that it socially starts to be irrelevant since the average Brazilian has a drop of all three major races. From what I hear, blacks (including mixed race) tend to be the poorest in Brazil and though there are poor whites, majority of them tend to be white and you tell me there's no difference in Brazil?? You must be kidding me. If the blacks in Brazil are too ignorant or naive I should say (and I apologize for the use of such words as I don't mean it in a derogatory manner)to see clearly, it must be very unfortunate and their lot will never improve.

On a lighter note, are there any reliable and safe same day tours of Salvador from Rio by road? How far apart are these two cities by road and how good are the roads.

I am not saying that you are socialized exactly as a continental African is but the truth is your way of life still shows traits of Africa from your skin colour and racial features to your religious practices of Africa or Catholicism or a mix of both as I've seen. Your roots my dear are determined by your race and DNA.

Not really, such things are taught. I have met many Japanese descendents living in Brazil that were warm and sentimental, and the Japanese aren't known for these characteristics. Some things might be defined by the genetic inheritance, but those would be predispositions only. The realization of such predisposition would depend on the social context. For example a Japanese in Japan would suffer much more pressure to behave in such a way in Japan and in another way in Brazil, that could allow them to express something they wouldn't otherwise.

The way I see race is the same as blood type. There are many types, but this is something purely biological and carry no judgements of value associated. Does anyone feel pride about being O ? That doesn't make any sense. The idea of race as a determining factor for the individual stems exclusively from the American culture, that borrowed it from the English.

You have issues, you must sort it out. But we have nothing to do with it, and we must build our own civilization instead of adoption less progressive ideals, that would stigmatize people in bad ways. Besides such abomination would mean a subordination of Brazil to the narrow confines of the Anglo-saxon mindset, which would prevent it from evolving.

Brazilians may not appear to question one another's identity because they have been taught to see themselves really as Brazilians and have cross-bred so much that it socially starts to be irrelevant since the average Brazilian has a drop of all three major races. From what I hear, blacks (including mixed race) tend to be the poorest in Brazil and though there are poor whites, majority of them tend to be white and you tell me there's no difference in Brazil?? You must be kidding me.

Well, mixed race aren't blacks. And how successful a person is has nothing to do with his or her race, since there are many blondes that are poor, and I have met some, and blacks that are rich. If you care to learn about Brazil, not about stereotypes promoted by idiots, then you would know what I am talking about. Now you are going to base all your judgement on Bahia...

The "Brazilian Pride" is well deserved since we achieved what no other people would be capable of. Although Brazil has many bad things, this is one of the things we can really be proud of. Other cultures, with the Anglo-saxon ones being a shining example, have race as one of the core values of the society.

If the blacks in Brazil are too ignorant or naive I should say (and I apologize for the use of such words as I don't mean it in a derogatory manner)to see clearly, it must be very unfortunate and their lot will never improve.

Any poor can improve with effort, and for that good values are key characteristics. All successful people have in common that didn't spend any time whining instead of other more productive activities.

I'm no expert on issues of tourism, but I do know Milwaukee has over the last few recent years, dramatically invested in building a "convention center" and advertising to attract business travelers. Supposedly this is suppose to be were a large amount of tourism revenue can be generated now-a-days in cities. So I would see no reason why it would not be the same regarding Sao Paulo.

This is the problem with small cities that lost their competiveness and want to build "Convention centers" to attract tourists. Chicago and S.Paulo are mega centers and built on Industries and dynamic enough to change and adapt to the new realities. Both the cities have convention centers built decades ago to receive business vitors/Tourists. So there is no need for S.Paulo nor Chicago to promote themselves as the paradise for the tourists and that is the reason, I started criticizing this article!

As for Milwaukee building "convention Centers", it happens in Brazil too. We call it "Turismo de negocios" Or "Business Tourism".Building Convention Centers in the Boondoks and trying to attract tourists.Will not work.

This stereotypical vision of a people is so ridiculous. In one of those crappy Brazilian soap operas they put an "indian" comic character that would be just like the stereotype, talking with a strong accent and and making reference to some "jungle-like" life. Little after some groups of indigenous people complained because the character was implying the indians were primitive. It happens that today indians watch TV, go to college, pay taxes and all. There was even an indian philosopher angry at how they were portrayed in the soap opera.

Have you paid attention, an indian philosopher!? What? Blasphemy! Learning from Plato and Aristotle? They are denying their race! They should be "proud" of the funny earrings they used and wear war paintings! Hahahahaha

Seriously, the only thing limiting some blacks (not all of course) is the insistence in ignoring education and just whine. The successful blacks become traitors and the brazilians blacks are "denying their race" because they don't hate themselves.

Abe, you've been marvelhous here of late. Thank you.

Sand Ant, with your obvious issues you probably can't really hear what Ab is telling you. To be direct regarding some of your queries, no, there is no safe road from anywhere to anywhere by car much less from Rio to Sal. Besides, you'd be talking an ungodly number of hours even by direct route on an interstate bus - best to drop that idea if you ever do opt to go for your first visit (or even for a lifetime). If your intended point of entry / main stay is Rio, better you find an intercity cab or bus and take in the scenery during the ride and find yourself a small pousada near or on the beach in some town closer to Rio or just shack up in sin city and take the day tours offering boat rides. If the image of the city of Salvador you've built up in your mind just won't let you let go of that, take a plane and plan on spending a weekend or there abouts. If it's just that Salvadorans and this mystique of afro-culturism that pique your interest, spend a better part of a week in Parati instead, you'll avoid most of the dangers and chances are you will run into a few bahians with a little bling (showing but a bit more subdued than that in americanass do norte), education and outgoing personalities that will fill your thirst for cultural knowledge. On the other hand, if it's strictly the pro's and or bunda shakeing you're after - make some friends in Miami instead.

I have read all the comments above & feel a little bit hurt. Am a young Ugandan guy in his early 30's who has all his life dreamt of visiting Brasil someday. Back here in Uganda we watch a major brasilian T.V channel called RECORD & its amazing. If one has the chance to watch it, it will finally dawn on them that every state in Brazil has something unique to offer to the world. I have travelled quite a bit around the world in the past but i have never seen such a fasicnating place like Brasil in my life. Brasil is AWESOME!!! Honestly speaking, Bahia is my dream destination & hope to buy there a house someday too, God willing.
Personally, i have always found the true richness of Brasil in its people.The few brasilians i have known in my life have all left me with very beautiful memories that i will live to cherish forver.
To me, when one has a brazilian as a friend then they are now able to define the word "LOVE".
I Love You Brasil!!!
Ciao to all!

~ Peace 2 All ~
written by True African, 2007-06-13 07:04:27
I have read all the comments above & feel a little bit hurt. Am a young Ugandan guy in his early 30's who has all his life dreamt of visiting Brasil someday. Back here in Uganda we watch a major brasilian T.V channel called RECORD & its amazing. If one has the chance to watch it, it will finally dawn on them that every state in Brazil has something unique to offer to the world. I have travelled quite a bit around the world in the past but i have never seen such a fasicnating place like Brasil in my life. Brasil is AWESOME!!! Honestly speaking, Bahia is my dream destination & hope to buy there a house someday too, God willing.
Personally, i have always found the true richness of Brasil in its people.The few brasilians i have known in my life have all left me with very beautiful memories that i will live to cherish forver.
To me, when one has a brazilian as a friend then they are now able to define the word "LOVE".
I Love You Brasil!!!
Ciao to all!

I think mostly everyone on earth has some degree of stereotypes in their head about some people or place. And many stereotypes perhaps have their origin in some degree of truth however large or small. Some stereotypes are probably simply lies repeated enough to seem as if they are true.

That said, given the two nations San Antonio mentioned, France and the United States, and being the product of the United States myself, I can surmise that what San Antonio refers to as "pride" is more than likely really hyper-nationalism.

As far as European classical culture, it is something to learn about and remember, but it is not a be-all end-all. When the United States entered WWII most the middle-class in the U.S. were devoted readers of comic books. In Germany on the other hand, most their middle-class were devoted readers of the European classics. Keep in mind that Germany was one of the most educated societies when the Nazi party rose to power. Apparently education does not equal correct moral disposition. (not to say there were not other forces that led to the rise of the Nazi party and their power)

There is nothing wrong with samba. In fact, music is one of the two or few universal languages, I have read (math being another). So samba being a mix of universal language and physical dance that requires coordinated movement, tending to unite people through entertainment, is just as much "culture" as reading some book written by some European philosopher a few hundred years ago who liked to wear wigs on his head. (or make-up on his face)

The United States is not at all a tea-tooting culture with it's pinky-finger stuck out. It's hamburgers, American football, The Jerry-Springer show, and gas guzzling SUV's, it's Cowboys and comic book heros. And the United States has no problem making a huge economy and has developed a decent infrastructure. On the other hand, in every age, until recently, in Europe, European nations had slums as bad (or worse) as in Brazil. Europe had plenty of rural poor when her whig wearing law makers and philosophers were walking around or writing books. In fact I believe many of those poor immigrate to Brazil and the United States. A cowboy, in Brazil or the United States, may not be Plato, but he can shoot your a** dead with a six shooter (while making off with your wife).

Thanks Simpleton for that piece of advice and I will take very seriously. I would visit Bahia if I got the chance to but Rio would be my mainstay. I don't necessarily need to "learn" about Afro-culture from Bahia or from anyone at that since I am African born and raised. It's just that my interest in Brazil seems to have its root in Bahia. A brazilian automatically assumed that I was being critical of Brazil (don't know why) because of my professed "love: for Bahia. I believe in embracing culture in all of its diversity and Brazil is in that position to do just that. Take away Samba and Capoeira and culturally, Brazil is dead. You may be able to improve technologically and economically but the culture question would always come back to haunt you - ask the Americans (and I am by no means suggesting that Americans be role models for Brazilians). Embracing your afro and indian cultures (it seems those are the two you have problems identifying with) does not in any way make you less Brazilian (is that what you're afraid of?) There is no cultural erosion here. Matter of fact, it makes you richer culturally. In response to A brazilian, yes mixed race is different from black. Mulatto includes black but is not black. It is surprising that you would say that and not agree with me that your race and roots are determined by your DNA. If it was such a "social" issue of determination of race, mulattoes would be considered black (as they are in Europe and North America) because they are for the most part socialized as blacks. I however think it's ignorant for a mulatto to be classified as black because they are in the strict sense not. My point though was that I hear in Brazil there are poor blacks and whites (including your blonde fantasies) but majority of the rich are white (meaning there are a few rich people of colour) and this isn't just in Bahia but the whole of Brazil. This holds true in the U.S. and Europe as well so Brazilian blacks are not alone in their plight. E-harmony, you are right my friend. The U.S. case is probably truly better described as hyper-nationalism and not "pride". Thanks.

The problem occurs is when such dances become the only and true culture. In Brazil people will do what gringos think they should do simply because they have a weak mind and don't know better. Their lives become a stereotype. All of this could be avoided if they knew their culture, their real culture and not this nonsense.

Without a proper education people are defenseless. They won't be able to use their judgement correctly and will become peons for corrupt people. They also lose the ability to perceive the essence of things and just worry about the looks. That's why many Brazilians are so shallow, all they care and all they know about are appearances.

But the worst part is not that. Do you know what's the difference between German, Japanese and African descendents? The first two are quiet and you can ignore their existence if you want so. The third will be make such a noise just about everything, will act as if they owned the place and everyone else is just an annoying guest, will pretend that every single grain of sand of this country belongs to them, and tell everyone that everything that exist in this country exist because of them. Not even indians act this way!

And I am not sure why do you insist with this Portuguese stuff. There's no such thing as choosing one over the other, because there's only a Brazilian culture. Adopting foreign cultures is not good, at least not in this way. It's good only if you can break it up to pieces, get what you need and add it to the whole, but then it would be something new.

Sand, which part of african culture did you come from and how long were you steeped in the way of things in your neighborhood / village / city as a child? There's much to learn from and enjoy in every sector of the immigrant neighborhoods / regions in Brazil regardless of whether their beginnings were in this past century or long long before or which section of which continent they arrived from. Other than that there was much lower representation of some countries and continents, it kind of reminds me of my experiences growing up in the "big" town in a rural area except you may find the festa days are celebrated more or less jointly by the diverse cultural backgrounds side by side vs on different days (and lack the drunken rock throwing Irish - no insult intended O'migos).

Sorry E-Harmony, I do know ALOT about tourism but I can tell you dont. Congressos are usually business based events that are enclosed to members only and focus on the events themselves rather than the enjoyment of the country or destination (which is what tourism is about). Please read more before you speak and try to understand what your saying before you say garbage. I am sure you are good at something, its just not tourism. YOU must be from Sao Paulo rsrsrsrs

A brazilian just made the most ignorant statement...Germans and Japanese are quiet and African descendants are loud. How silly. That statement confirms my suspicion all along that you had a problem with Brazil being identified with African and Amerindian cultures. Unfortunately, that is the way it will always be. I know you wish Brazil could be viewed as a country of intellectuals but that won't happen as long as the west (Gringos as you call them) want it that way. It's by far more marketable to depict Brazil as a land of beautiful women and fun than as one of intellectuals. I am not ignorant and I know intellectuals exist everywhere. However, the West is in control of the media and Pele, Ronaldo, Adriana Lima and Copacabana are more marketable than Embraer :-) The Brazilians themselves have probably also bought into the stereotype in the name of tourism dollars.To Simpleton, I am primarily from Nigeria and grew up on the Island of Lagos which is mostly homogenous (in the international context but heterogenous in the national context) but historically very heterogenous. We all have grand and great-grandparents from everywhere, including Brazil. I agree that immigrants enrich a land and there are definitely negative sides to immigration as well. Many of us are products of immigrants one way or the other.

e-Harmony
written by Joseph, 2007-06-14 12:25:10
Sorry E-Harmony, I do know ALOT about tourism but I can tell you dont. Congressos are usually business based events that are enclosed to members only and focus on the events themselves rather than the enjoyment of the country or destination (which is what tourism is about). Please read more before you speak and try to understand what your saying before you say garbage. I am sure you are good at something, its just not tourism. YOU must be from Sao Paulo rsrsrsrs

Now this has to be one of the most stupid replies in this thread.

Many local recreational or service geared businesses in Milwaukee - including the Indian run casino - had interests and have interests involved in the building and expansion of the new convention center in Milwaukee and the city's attempt to lure business and other conventions to the city. The same most hold true, in impact, to the local economy of Sao Paulo city, if you don't know why, "Please read more before you speak and try to understand what your saying before you say garbage."

It's note worthy that all the website links you put were to Portuguese titles. The best online travel guide in English to Sao Paulo is:
http://www.holidayinbrazil.com..._guide.htm

"It's note worthy that all the website links you put were to Portuguese titles. The best online travel guide in English to Sao Paulo is:
http://www.holidayinbrazil.com...ide.htm "

If you want the REAL experience...with EVERTHING included, book your trip with www.blameitonrio.com. Located near the beach in Copacabana and a frequent daytime rest stop for the girls from HELP, the owner is a "retired" shoe store owner from Hermosa Beach California...

"Now this has to be one of the most stupid replies in this thread.
Many local recreational or service geared businesses in Milwaukee "

So the Paulista person again who isnt in the business is trying to act like he reads stuff and therefore is all knowing. Maybe you should join us here in the industry since you READ so much and KNOW, oh... so much. Indians and Casinos now??? What has that go to do with the fact that SP is a big ugly gray expensive, traffic unfriendly violent city that is being promoted by the paulista minister Marta Suplicy??? Maybe you should take your minister of tourism's advive, relax and CUM (Gozar) or otherwise learn more about the truth of the industry from us who are here in Brazil and work it every day.
Folks avoid SP city like the plague for your own sake and health!

www.blameitonrio.com

This website is not working .The owner of that site has to get the Webmaster (or Webmistress) off his (or her) bed (or someone else´s bed) to fix the problem. Or pay you a hefty Consulting fee to fix it ,while you are in Rio!. Anytime you need mys assistance,feel free to ask.

So what exactly what were you offering? Fix the bed, fix what stays in the bed or fix what don't work? Two out of three? How bout the threesome? I've never paid a consorting fee myself.

Good one Jo
written by Simpleton, 2007-06-14 20:21:29

Excuse me ,Simpleton. Was this question addressed to me?

A brazilian just made the most ignorant statement...Germans and Japanese are quiet and African descendants are loud. How silly.

A Brazilian did not make an ignorant statement. He did not say that the African decendents are loud. There is a difference between "Loud" and "Boistorous". You beter check out your English vocabulory. He is not a racist ( like I am not). If you want to learn about our culture,pay a little bit of attention to what he says.He is a well read fella and I enjoy reading his posts.So stop complaining about him.

Can you read English Joao? I suggest you go back and read that posting or maybe I should help you out. Read below:

Do you know what's the difference between German, Japanese and African descendents? The first two are quiet and you can ignore their existence if you want so. The third will be make such a noise just about everything, will act as if they owned the place and everyone else is just an annoying guest, will pretend that every single grain of sand of this country belongs to them, and tell everyone that everything that exist in this country exist because of them.

I am learning about your culture and A brazilian represents his opinion, not that of the average Brazilian, simply because you agree with him on the point of Afro behaviour. I know enough Brazilians not to learn the "culture" from you both. And lets not talk about being well read because you both don't sound like you are. A brazilian has shifted from saying your race doesn't determine your cultural affiliations and only pre=disposes you to acting a certain way to making that ugly comment about blacks. Their sweat and blood built Brazil and that's a fact. For you to even put them down as such is disrespectful. The funny thing is those of you who think you're white would be considered Mulatto (or black) if you came to North America or Europe and met the "real" whites.

Can you read English Joao?

I did learn how to read English, while I was in Eaton. Can you read and compehend that language?

BTW, I have been to your country of birth too,including the Island where you were born. I must say that even the Cab Drivers in Lagos speak very good English. I hope you learnt from them the sill to read,write and speak English,the correct way.

You bet I know Eaton. I'm assuming you lived in the U.K. at some point then, and am glad to hear you've actually visited Lagos. I'm impressed. In any event, you still miss the point. Did you re-read that little posting by A brazilian. I am not here to trade words with anyone. Just having fun surfing through one of my favourite "other" countries' social website

The Nigerians are very warm people and serve some good hot and spicey food.Even their sphagetti has some hot green chillies,which I loved.btw, we have a nice Nigerian neighbor who is a student of architecture in the local university and speaks English (with a British accent) and excellent Portuguese.He feels very comfortable with all of us.

As for "A Brazilian",all he wants to say is that we are multicultural and one doesnt go all the way to Bahia to find their roots! He as well as I give lots of respect to "BRAIN POWER" and not to "Black Power", "Yellow Power" and all those powers that come and go!!. He is certainly not a racist and so quit worrying about it.

Very well said and I quite frankly didn't refer to him as racist - just that his comment was sort of bigoted (and I'm sure you agree with me to some extent) Brain power beats all but we must celebrate our diversity of cultures too. Brazil is probably the most "truly" multi-cultural nation in the world (I would never argue that point) My point to A brazilian is that Bahia's afro culture is very important to Brazil (not that it's the only culture that exists in Brazil as that would be a flat lie) To embrace one is not to deny the other. You get me? I'm especially happy to hear that you've left Lagos with some happy memories and I hope to leave Brazil with the same. Italy, Australia and Brazil are known for their architecture schools. Again, it's not just bikini clad beach babes that Brazil is known for

A brazilian just made the most ignorant statement...Germans and Japanese are quiet and African descendants are loud. How silly. That statement confirms my suspicion all along that you had a problem with Brazil being identified with African and Amerindian cultures. Unfortunately, that is the way it will always be. I know you wish Brazil could be viewed as a country of intellectuals but that won't happen as long as the west (Gringos as you call them) want it that way.

This is nonsense. First because the situation of dumbness is promoted by Brazilians themselves, not by gringos, and second, for as much as gringos would love to portray Brazil as a party land it wouldn't be so if Brazilians didn't cooperate. This "the almighty white men" mentality ísn't true, Brazil doesn't need a conspiracy to be held back, because Brazilians already hold the country back by themselves and need no help for that.

The funny thing is those of you who think you're white would be considered Mulatto (or black) if you came to North America or Europe and met the "real" whites.

The elite create the values, and the people just follow. If we can make our own values, which will conflict with other established ones, doesn't it make us "elite"?

First, no need to apoligize to the Brazilian, he always gets most excited when you speak of race, especially the cross breeding of the Portuguese, slaves and Indian women during Brazi's sometimes very violent history, there is a VERY good chance that there is some African blood in almost every Brazilian born...now the Brazilian or Joao won't admit to this, instead of embracing it, they deny it...sounds like racisim, or something like it to me.

Now the Brazilian will come back and call me "The Hispanic", so what? It is part of who I am, I can't change it and have always embraced it...to be honest, why would anyone want to be the "real whites" you refered to, that in itself is a bit racist, but the "real whites" I know (and there are fewer and fewer) and out numbered here in South Florida are usually terrible boors with fat uglt wives...give me Latin or Black women anyday...when you are with them, everyday is an adventure!

Here and in Florida and many other States, the Hispanic and Latino influence and political power is making a real change in US culture and policy. Look at the immigration reform bill in our Congress. A few Senators and talk show hosts catering to the Red States killed it once, but it has been revived and will eventually pass making all 12 to 20 million immigrants legal overnight. Now, while I have mixed feelings about this, but there is only two real reasons for the bill, to gain new voters for the respective parties it's about keeping power and big business having a pool of cheap labor they can LEGALLY access...they took Mexico from us a few hundred years back, it's taken awhile, but we are taking it back while no one is looking. Viva La Raza!

I embrace my brazilianity. Just Brazilian. Remember the example of the indian I gave, an indian philosopher (!!). Your origin doesn't prevent you from learning, and although there are many things that aren't right with the Europeans, and such things should be avoided, I think they have got some things right. Denying that is just childish.

Embracing things you are not just because others might think it is right is not power, it is subordination.

GTY gave you a very friendly and fatherly advice and I appreciate his fine gesture.

now the Brazilian or Joao won't admit to this, instead of embracing it, they deny it...sounds like racisim, or something like it to me.

Dont get intimidated by the disinformation passed on by GTY. It is not true. Many times he calls me "The Hun" and I dont mind,because I am what I am.

The city of São Paulo, taking in a lot more money in ISS taxes, due to this increase in tourism, needs to stop making hotels charge this ridiculous "Tourism Tax" to guests in the hotels. And hotels need to stop charging this "Taxa de Turismo" on guests' bills at check out, not telling the tourists that this tax is voluntary. This is a dishonest practice and deceives the tourist.

You guys are hilarious. Since, A brazilian is supposed to be very well read (as per Joao da Silva's comment) maybe he or any one of you guys in Brazil could help me locate a book I've had difficulty finding. It's titled "Agudas: Os Brasileiros do Benim" and is authored by Milton Guran.I believe it's written in Portuguese.