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São Paulo, Brazil's Largest City, Isn't Just All Business Anymore PDF Print E-mail
Written by Débora Rubin and Geovana Pagel   
Sunday, 10 June 2007 22:44
Downtown São Paulo seen from the Ibirapuera park

Everything is superlative in São Paulo, from the size of the city to the volume of tourists who arrive here every year - 7.5 million, according to São Paulo Tourism, an organization of the municipal government. And the figures go on: there are 12,500 restaurants, 550 hotels, 280 cinemas, 71 museums, 120 theatres, 72 shopping centers, 34 parks, among other attractions.

But being a grayish city, made of concrete, with few natural gifts, São Paulo does not have a tradition in leisure tourism, only business. In recent years, though, the city started changing its features, and proving that it can also be a cultural, hyped up metropolis.

Combined with that process, there is an ongoing effort of the São Paulo city hall aimed at constantly improving the reception of business tourists, and at showing them the city that lies outside the office, far beyond Paulista avenue, the main business district. To that extent, a lot has been taking place - from taxi drivers taking English lessons to better cater to tourists, to partnerships between hotels, theaters, and cinemas to offer discounts on fees.

The "new" São Paulo has already been featured in newspapers such as The New York Times and the French Le Monde. Trendy hotels such as the Unique and the Emiliano, and restaurants such as the traditional Figueira Rubayat and the more modern Spot define the "economic and cultural capital of Brazil," according to The New York Times.

But the old São Paulo - with its Municipal Theater, the Pinacoteca (Art Gallery), the Luz Train Station - and the prosaic São Paulo - with its free fairs, the Municipal Market, and 25 de Março (a street known for its vendors and popular stores) - are also in the route of tourists.

And since everything changes very fast in the city, the most visited spots also vary. According to São Paulo Tourism, the tourist sector arm of the city hall, after the visit of Pope Benedict XVI, in May, the monasteries Mosteiro São Bento, where he stayed, and Mosteiro da Luz, where the canonization of Friar Galvão was made official, became the two new tourist spots in the city.

Of all the most visited spots, though, the very first place still belongs to the Ibirapuera Park, one of the few existing green areas in the capital of the state of São Paulo. In second place comes the São Paulo Art Museum (MASP) and Paulista Museum - more widely known as the Ipiranga Museum.

Being the "capital of business," with its 90,000 events per year, São Paulo Tourism realized that people who come on work trips are potential leisure tourists. Based on that idea, the organization launched the program "Stay another day." As the name shows, the objective is to have businessmen and businesswomen sleep at least one extra night in the city, using the additional time for some leisure activity.

One more night's stay by these tourists would increase tourism revenues in the city by 1 billion Brazilian reais (US$ 515.5 million), according to the organization, and would yield 65,000 new jobs. The program was launched less than a year ago.

According to Caio Luiz de Carvalho, president of São Paulo Tourism, before the program was even launched, an improvement has already been felt in the occupation rate of the hotel sector from 2005 to 2006. "During that period, there was a 9.6% increase in the hotel occupation rate," he says.

Carvalho said business tourists, even staying for a short time span, spend twice as much as leisure tourists. "The former leaves approximately US$ 300 a day in São Paulo, whereas those who go on trips to northeastern Brazil spend half that amount," he stated.

Aline Del Manto, a Tourism professor at the Senac University Center, claims that the growth in tourism in the city can be perceived by looking at the collection of the Tax on Services (ISS).

"In the last three years, ISS collection has been increasing with each new month, with each new year. This is directly linked to the use of services - not just hotels and restaurants, but also cinemas, theaters, stores, etc.," says the professor, who also works for São Paulo Tourism.

New Visitors

In the opinion of Caio Luiz de Carvalho, the Emirates Airline flight, which will be inaugurated in October - there will be six weekly flights between Dubai and São Paulo - is not going to increase tourist quantity in the city, but rather quality.

"The new flight will bring to São Paulo a new type of executive and tourist, with a high buying power. This flight represents a much awaited link not just to Dubai, but also to many other cities in the East," says Carvalho.

To that extent, the Brazilian Tourist Institute (Embratur) has been promoting familiarization with the new public that will start arriving here in the second half of the year. According to Jeanine Pires, the president of Embratur, the tourist agency of the Arab company, Emirates Holiday, works with four different destinations: Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo (Southeast), Foz do Iguaçu (South) and Manaus (North) - for the latter, the idea is to carry out partnership work with the Brazilian Export and Investment Promotion Agency (Apex) to promote the city in events and fairs throughout the world.

According to Pires, a team from Embratur collected information about the tourists that should come from the East with the new flight. "They are people who travel with their families, and usually spend long periods of time in their chosen destinations. Furthermore, they seek sophisticated, luxury hotels," says Embratur's chief. "They are also very interested in the culture of the country they are visiting, and they like to go shopping."

More Business, More Tourists

In 2006, São Paulo overcame Rio de Janeiro in terms of number of international events, according to data from the International Congress and Convention Association (ICCA). The capital of São Paulo ranked 18th, with 54 international events, ahead of Rio de Janeiro, traditionally the best ranking Brazilian city, which ranked 26th, at 48 events.

Brazil as a whole ranked seventh with 207 international meetings. It is worth noting that the ranking only includes events that meet the ICCA criteria - among them, having more than 50 participants, and having been held in other countries before. But to judge from the São Paulo Convention & Visitors Bureau, come 2008, the city will occupy the 10th position in the ranking.

Outside the strict ICCA rules, São Paulo hosts a myriad of events. According to the São Paulo Convention, the city holds an average of one event every six minutes, including congresses, symposia, conventions, conferences, and others.

In 2003, the Embratur established a special board for the business and events segment. According to Marcelo Pedroso, who is currently the director for the segment, the aim is to foster the sector more and more in the country.

According to Pedroso, 29.1% of tourism in Brazil is business-oriented. And those who come on work trips stay in hotels more than those who come on leisure trips: 87% against 68%.

"The business tourist is potentially a leisure tourist. We even carry out work in foreign countries, at fairs and events, in order to present to them the possibility of staying in Brazil a few more days," says Pedroso.

"We are outlining a profile of those who come to work, so we can find out what their interests and their consumer profile are, and if they are interested in getting to know the country better."

According to Pedroso, although the idea is to distribute the events more and more across other Brazilian cities, São Paulo has an infrastructure that puts it on equal terms with other large cities in the world. In other words, there still is a lot of space for growth when it comes to events.

One of the segments that attracts the most congresses in the city is the medical one. With the success of São Paulo Fashion Week, fashion also attracts foreigners. And there are also more irreverent ones, such as the Gay Parade, which took place this past weekend (June 10), which takes three million people to Paulista avenue.

"São Paulo is a city that sets trends and fashions. The word intolerance does not exist in its vocabulary," Carvalho, of São Paulo Tourism, sums it up.

Before convincing tourists that São Paulo is a good destination, one must convince its citizens that the city is good. If people who were born, or who live in the city value the city, it gets easier to receive visitors.

With that in mind, the São Paulo Convention & Visitors Bureau launched, in 2006, the campaign "São Paulo é Tudo de Bom" ("São Paulo Is All the Best"), to encourage citizens to love the city. The campaign features celebrities and is transmitted in newspapers, radios, TV, and magazines from all over the country.

"It is worth recalling that, although they are not very used to foreigners, citizens of São Paulo treat tourists very well. São Paulo ranked fifth in the ranking of Latin America's most receptive cities," stated Carvalho, of São Paulo Tourism.

On Foot, by Metro or by Taxi

The Stay one more Day program is, in reality, a great guide that simplifies the tourist's life. It lists ten tours that contemplate various kinds of program in six distinct regions of the city. The idea is to make the tourist create his program starting with two menus: ten one-day theme tours and the best places in six regions of the city.

This way, he can opt for the tour that is most connected to his profile or is closer to where he is staying. The guide, of which 150,000 copies were printed, may also be seen on the Internet. It is being distributed at large events in São Paulo.

Another way of visiting the city is by metro - although the metro grid is still small when compared to the size of the city. On the metro site, there is a map of all the tourist points that are close to the stations.

But for those who want to ride the metro and, at the same time, learn about the history of the city, the correct program is Turismetrô. There are five different routes, all with bilingual guides and with artists enacting the history of the city. Sé station, the city's central station, is the starting point of the routes.

During the events, the actors explain details about the history of the churches, avenues and also about the tourist points. The tour, which starts at 2 pm on Saturdays and at 9 am and 2 pm on Sundays, is free and costs just the price of the metro tickets.

Each group can include up to 25 people. To participate all you have to do is got to the Turismetrô ticket counter at Sé station at least 20 minutes beforehand. After that you choose one of the tours and buy the number of tickets necessary.

Much to Be Done

To Aline Del Manto, from São Paulo Tourism and a Tourism teacher at the Senac University Center, there are many interesting things taking place in the city and this may increase the tourism in the city and, consequently, in the outskirts, in the interior of the state and on the coast. On the other hand, there is much to be done. "Over the last five years, we have promoted a study of the obstacles that stint the growth of the city's tourism," she says.

One of them is the language barrier: few taxi drivers, shop salespeople and waiters, for example, speak English or Spanish. With taxi drivers, a special program was developed. The tourist guides, in turn, speak both languages.

"But we noticed that there is a demand for guides who speak third languages, like Chinese, Arabic and Russian. It would be interesting if we could attract people who speak Portuguese and one of these languages to take guide courses," stated Aline.

Another project developed by São Paulo Turismo and mentioned by professor Aline is the training of São Paulo travel agents who were previously only interested in sending people from São Paulo abroad, but never in receiving tourists in the city. "We now develop this work with 40 agencies," she explained.

Finally, the university students are also moving. In the Senac Tourism undergraduate course, the students have many lessons about São Paulo. Almost one whole term on the matter. "We make sure that when they leave, they know the city, so that they may be qualified to work as guides, as receptive agents," explained Aline.

Tongue Untwister

Taxi driver Ludovico Ciaramicoli, 60 years of age, has already lost count of the number of foreigners he has transported in his taxi over the 25 years he has been working in the city of São Paulo, the largest business center in South America.

Up to the beginning of last month he did not speak a word of English and was constantly frustrated because he could not generate fidelity among foreign passengers. But since he participated in a basic English course, his routine has changed and - better still, his revenues have risen.

"Taxi drivers are often the first contact the tourist has with the city, and as in the age-old adage: the first impression stays forever," he states. "In the past, I would take the person to her hotel and could not tell him that I would be available to pick him up or take him on the outings he wanted," he explained.

"The passengers have now noticed my desire to talk to them and end up preferring a driver who tries to speak their language. On the first day I noticed an increase of 15% in my revenues," he celebrates.

Apart from that, Ludovico has even established a kind of partnership with Faap university, in São Paulo. "They always have students from other countries in their Foreign Relations course. Many times they have nobody to receive the person at the airport. Since I learnt how to speak basic English, they started trusting my work and I myself receive the foreigners," he says.

"I have already even trained other taxi drivers so that they know how to receive the person and make him comfortable. São Paulo is receiving more foreign tourists, we need to be more prepared," he teaches.

The English course that helped Ludovico in his work is part of a taxi driver training project developed by the São Paulo city hall, in partnership with the Union of Taxi Drivers and the Association of Taxi Driver Companies and Taxi Fleets in the City of São Paulo (Adetax).

"We have developed courses with specific characteristics for taxi drivers. The clues are very practical like, for example, asking where the passenger is coming from, where he would like to go and how much the ride was," explained Adetax president Ricardo Auriemma.

The basic course takes 24 hours over three months - it is free and the groups include on average 40 students. "We have already taught English to 350 drivers and Spanish to 100," celebrates Ricardo.

According to him, during the course they tell their most curious stories and explain the greatest difficulties they have in their daily life. "It is very gratifying when you notice the moment in which they can communicate with the tourist," he explained.

Still in the training program, 22,000 taxi drivers received the "tourist kit", which includes two education CDs. The first CD, recorded in eight languages - German, Japanese, Chinese, French, English, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese -, welcomes tourists.

"As soon as they enter my taxi, they are informed about the tourist points of the city, the number of cinemas, theaters, shopping centers, cultural centers and about the gastronomic diversity," explained the president at the Adetax.

The second CD was produced to better inform taxi drivers. It contains information about the city, what is most important in the different regions, cultural routes, and entertainment clues, as well as providing information about how to approach the passenger, the different kinds of tourists who visit the city and how to win the passenger's trust.

Clues that taxi driver Ludovico follows strictly. "The CD includes the expressions most used in each language, including good morning, good evening, good night, excuse me and thank-you," he explained.

Further information:

www.spturis.com

www.metro.sp.gov.br

www.cidadedesaopaulo.com

www.accorhotels.com.br

www.visitesaopaulo.com

www.fiquemaisumdia.com.br

Turismetrô information:

(+55 11) 6958-3714

www.spturis.com/turismetro

www.metro.sp.gov.br

Anba - www.anba.com.br

Comments (71)Add Comment
Gringos
written by Doggy Daddy, June 11, 2007
Don't forget www.gingoes.com..Best site in English in Brazil and focused to SP
Sao paulo is not worth the effort
written by Joseph, June 11, 2007
I cannot believe the rubbish of this article, it has to be written only by someone from Sao paulo itself. Lets take a look at some of the facts 1) Most of the tourists that "visit" SP never leave the airport!!! SP is now Brazil main gateway and almost everyone has to pass through here to go to Rio, Salvador or any other real tourism destination. 2) The city has horrible traffic problems, making a simple 25 mile commute a 2 hour odessy. 3) The restaurants are over priced and little value for the money .....shall I go on?? Well I could, but I will not.

If your thinking of visiting Brazil, please dont waste your precious time in the ugly, gray, overpriced city of São Paulo...Brazil has so much more to offer.

A Tourism Director based in Brazil
...
written by e harmony, June 11, 2007
[qoute]Sao paulo is not worth the effort
written by Joseph, 2007-06-11 12:30:37
I cannot believe the rubbish of this article, it has to be written only by someone from Sao paulo itself. Lets take a look at some of the facts 1) Most of the tourists that "visit" SP never leave the airport!!! SP is now Brazil main gateway and almost everyone has to pass through here to go to Rio, Salvador or any other real tourism destination. 2) The city has horrible traffic problems, making a simple 25 mile commute a 2 hour odessy. 3) The restaurants are over priced and little value for the money .....shall I go on?? Well I could, but I will not.

If your thinking of visiting Brazil, please dont waste your precious time in the ugly, gray, overpriced city of São Paulo...Brazil has so much more to offer.

A Tourism Director based in Brazil

In 2006, São Paulo overcame Rio de Janeiro in terms of number of international events, according to data from the International Congress and Convention Association (ICCA). The capital of São Paulo ranked 18th, with 54 international events, ahead of Rio de Janeiro, traditionally the best ranking Brazilian city, which ranked 26th, at 48 events.

Brazil as a whole ranked seventh with 207 international meetings. It is worth noting that the ranking only includes events that meet the ICCA criteria - among them, having more than 50 participants, and having been held in other countries before. But to judge from the São Paulo Convention & Visitors Bureau, come 2008, the city will occupy the 10th position in the ranking.


Do tourism directors lack reading comprehension?
e-harmony
written by A brazilian, June 11, 2007
One of the things you will notice if you care to learn about Brazil is that Rio and Bahia believe to have a monopoly on "Brazil". So they feel offended if someone says that any other state is more popular. Not sure where they get such ideas from, since the northeast doesn't contribute much to this country, and never did, and Rio is a decadent and corrupt place.
To:E Harmony
written by João da Silva, June 11, 2007
Do tourism directors lack reading comprehension?


Joseph , the Tourism Director does not lack reading comprehension. What he really says is true.Lets analyse what he says:

1) Most of the tourists that "visit" SP never leave the airport!!! SP is now Brazil main gateway and almost everyone has to pass through here to go to Rio, Salvador or any other real tourism destination


Absolutely true in the case of inbound as well as outbound travellers. The last time we traveled outside Brazil, our flight from the South was booked at 7 A.M to leave for S.Paulo. The International flight was to depart at 9 P.M. We reached S.Paulo at 8 A.M and had to spend 13 hours at the airport! Of course, the domestic airlines could have put us on a later flight,but they insisted that we spent some "Quality time' in S.Paulo. We ended up spending this quality time at the airport warding off the people who wanted to sell subscriptions to the Magazines and other folks who could easily enter into the airport to peddle anything they wanted.

The city has horrible traffic problems, making a simple 25 mile commute a 2 hour odessy


That was precisely the reason we did not want to get out of the airport in S.Paulo.

3) The restaurants are over priced and little value for the money


Absolutely correct

If your thinking of visiting Brazil, please dont waste your precious time in the ugly, gray, overpriced city of São Paulo...Brazil has so much more to offer.


Another true statement.Brazil has so much more to offer and all the inbound and outbound passengers are forced to go through the city, just to stimulate the economy of the city.

I keep on saying that our country need to upgrade our airports in the interior to International status to give more options to the Tourists.If the Brazilian Airlines dont want to use them as hubs, I am sure the International Airlines would be willing to do so.

So, Joseph, you hit the nail right on the head and my congratulations.
SP sucks
written by Sam, June 11, 2007
I was visiting Brazil for the first time last year, and was enroute from Rio to Aguas de Lindoia via SP. We spent about10 hours in SP and it sucked. Went to the big central park, the indoor marketplace, an expensive restaurant, and got driven around by a taxi and "guide." There is nothing about the city I want to go back to.......on second thought, only if one of those beautiful slender long legged girls took me in........
Brazil has so much more to offer. !!!!!!!!
written by ch.c., June 11, 2007
Ohhhhh yesssssss, hundreds of favelas in every large city !
And in the Northeast the risk is even higher than in Southern Brazil.
The risk of being robbed, assaulted and eventually killed is the daily life !
And the US Embassy in Brazil, issued a travel warning....just a few months ago ! The warning stated that several American Women were raped while in Brazil !

Curious isnt it ? Or rather normal...in Brazil ?

Ohhhhh...and the Brazilian outgoing tourists are more important than the incoming foreign tourists !

Yessssss.....your tourism account is in deficit !
Looks like that even Brazilians tend to prefer more and more foreign countries instead of Brazil.
I suppose they know why.

And has one of the Rio tourism dept chief not said that Rio is as safe as any large cities in the world ?
Sorry.....it was propaganda once more....and once more full of lies !

Every publsihed description of SP and Rio says that they are one of the most violent cities....IN THE WORLD !
To:ch.c
written by João da Silva, June 11, 2007
And in the Northeast the risk is even higher than in Southern Brazil.


Not really. In the South we like to BBQ the Swiss Tourists.
Love Sao Paulo
written by GTY, June 11, 2007
Ah, you Gringo's are intimidated by one of the world's best cities. Yes it is big, and it is hard to get around, but if you know the city, or are with someone who does...Sao Paulo rocks. Now if I was planning a vacation, it would not make my stop list, but because I have to spend so much time there...I have found many treasures.

I usually stay in Morumbi, but the eating establishments and clubs are awesome, and while the women of SP dress and act different than Carioca's, they are friendly, and beautiful. There is traditional ethnic food in the Italian, Japanese and Arab neighborhoods, even the large Jewish area near Santa Catarina. If you know where to look, you can have a fine meal without breaking the bank, but if you do have the corporate card don't miss La Figura, an Argentine steakhouse in Jardims, built around a huge fig tree...the wine list does not have a bottle under US$100.00, same for the Familia Manchini joint, but the food is priced right and the helpings are huge, be prepared to wait for an hour or more on the weekends.

There is the shopping, only in Hong Kong can you find better suits and shoes for men, there are a ton of high end malls...but who has time. The clubs are...well, you just can't do them justice by trying to explain, they are places you have to visit, with Clube Bahamas being a stop on every visit. The girls there could come right out of Playboy and they most speak some English for the gringos.

Yes, for those that are willing to adventure, Sao Paulo can be a memorable indeed!
To:GTY
written by João da Silva, June 11, 2007
You forgot to mention about Clube Bahamas!

You planning to run for the Mayor´s job next year, GTY?
To:GTY
written by João da Silva, June 11, 2007
Sorry, you did mention about Clube Bahamas. My apologies.You must be the majority stock holder of this CLUBE,the way you promote it smilies/grin.gif
More Rubbish
written by Doggy Daddy, June 11, 2007
The Bahamas club is full of program girls, and the suits and mens clothing is s**t, pure and simple. be careful your maid does not throw your Jones of New York suit in the laundry machine, believe me it happens !!! Taxi drivers don't have a clue were they are going..no english of course.. and, and ,and.
...
written by e harmony, June 11, 2007
Joao,

Joseph claimed the article was proposing rubbish. In essence that means the article was wrong on its propositions. According to the ICCA the city of Sao Paulo over took the city of Rio de Janeiro in terms of numbers of international events. This has jack to do with a side rebuttal you Joseph make as to how many passengers disembark at the Sao Paulo airport.

And what does traffic have to do with giant cities like New York and Sao Paulo which both carry major weight and cosmopolitan lifestyle in their respective countries? I've driven in both Milwaukee and New York and I can tell you New York has far worse traffic issue than Milwaukee and New York is probably 3 times more expensive than Milwaukee. Guess what? New York lures more tourism and international events to its city than Milwaukee could ever dream of. Bottom line.
I'm running Joao
written by GTY, June 11, 2007
For Mayor of Clube Bahamas! D Daddy is probably a narrow minded Gringo intent on finding something wrong no matter where he goes...the problem is he has no clue about Sao Paulo, or Brazil in general. I'll take SP tp NY any day!
E Harmony
written by João da Silva, June 11, 2007
I've driven in both Milwaukee and New York and I can tell you New York has far worse traffic issue than Milwaukee and New York is probably 3 times more expensive than Milwaukee. Guess what? New York lures more tourism and international events to its city than Milwaukee could ever dream of. B


It is interesting that you mentioned this fact. I have also driven through Milwaulkee and the traffic is quite orderly. You are right, NYC is 3 times more expensive than Milwaukee. Since we Brazilians dont have the same purchasing power as you guys have, Milwaukee is perfectly the right place place for us. Been to NYC also and I didnt have the guts to drive around that city which I found exactly like S.Paulo ( I was driven around in NYC,courtesy of a friend of mine). Expensive,but it has more interesting things to see and enjoy.

Like Milwaukee, we have several cities in the South that do have better quality of life and less expensive than the city of S.Paulo. So when Joseph mentioned that the article was rubbish, probably he over reacted,but I think that he was contesting the fact that S.Paulo was a Tourist´s paradise. Like NYC and Bombay, SP was and is an industrial city and there is no point in pretending otherwise.Imagine Bombay trying to bring in tourists from overseas?

btw, a few years ago, I drove from Chicago to the Cove´s county (?) , through Milwaukee and we enjoyed the scenic route. Last month, when we were driving through the "Mata Atlantica" of our state, my wife reminded me of that drive.

Besides, remember that Wisconsin produzes some fine beer and I dont think that the state of New York can match the quality! I think that only state that can compete with Wisconsin is Arizona where the original Coors came from!.

In a nutshell, I would rather be in Milwaukee than in S.Paulo.
To:GTY
written by João da Silva, June 11, 2007
I'm running Joao


Run. I am sure the good Prof can organize a campaign for you,since he knows all the "botecas" in Sampa. D (or Sugar?) Daddy can get lots of votes for ya from those voluptous wenches in that club. May be D(S) Daddy should run as the vice president of this exclusive club.After all he is the owner of the site www.gingoes.com. Daddy can be a formidable ally in our efforts to elect you as "El Presidente"
Jo Jo
written by Simpleton, June 11, 2007
What? E harm doesn't find the Milwaukee scene entertaining enough? Hard to believe. Justin was likely at Festival Park this past weekend em Parada. Wouldn't have recognized him though - his makeup job was likely to perfection, you know how he just appreciates the heck out of some things Brazilians are world famous for.

Rush hour in Milwaukee is still only a 1/2 hour long. Basically you can get from anywhere to anywhere safely in 40 minutes or less (that's 15-28 miles end point to end point not kilometers!!!) and no matter what your flavor the Festas com musica livre go on all summer long. Usually you can find a free park entry ticket courtesy of some brewer, CokeCola or a food pantry asking for a simple dry goods / canned goods donation. Besides, 20 minutes and you're out in the open country on your Hog with jack to care about cept' possibly hitting a deer at dusk (or showing up at the same cross roads bar as your wife).


Doggy Daddy
written by GTY, June 11, 2007
Gee, the Brazilian taxi drivers don't speak any English...don't be such a pussy, how about learning a few words of Portuguese. How many Arab taxi drivers in NY speak any Portuguese? Or even passable English for that matter. I can see you now, on the beach in Rio, black socks and tennis shoes, asking a hotel doorman for the nearest Micky D's. There are tourists and travelers...guess which one you are??
Bahia Rocks!
written by San Antonio, June 12, 2007
I'm kinda disappointed at the ignorance I've read in some postings. I haven't been to Brazil, but I do know that Salvador (Bahia) was your first and colonial capital, and of more historical significance than today's more popular cities of Rio and Sao Paulo, contrary to a reader who wrote that the northeast had never contributed. Also, I understand Salvador has one of the lowest crime rates in the whole of South America, and especially compared to Rio and Sao Paulo. Bahia is also the heart of black Brazil (which is pretty much every Brazilian to some degree) Did you check out the msn list of hottest places to visit in 2007?? Salvador da Bahia was No. 9 and was the only Brazilian city on the list. Stop hiding your blacks and celebrate Bahia.
...
written by e harmony, June 12, 2007
Joao,

It is cool if one prefers Milwaukee over Sao Paulo, but that is not the point of the articles assertion of the direction and development of tourism in Sao Paulo, especially in relation to the cities ICCA compared it to (whatever cities those may be - apparently Rio de Janeiro was one of them).

There are some people in the United States who prefer to live in Milwaukee over New York, Chicago, or L.A. Then again there are many who would and do prefer those large international cities to the more parochial mid-size city of Milwaukee. I have no major beef with Milwaukee personally but within a few areas to its culture, politics, and economy. Milwaukee in the summer is one of the most festive cities I've ever experienced in the U.S. - ethnically and even down to the level of block ("block parties"). It's much like New York in that way. However, Milwaukee is a small city with a small mind to the world, it is less ambitious than cities like New York and Sao Paulo - and of course it is without doubt much, much, smaller than those two large cities. You could fit Milwaukee into a thumb print of the titan hand of Sao Paulo.

Milwaukee, Joao, no longer is a large beer producer. There are a number of micro-breweries but there is only one large brewery left, and that company, "Miller," is now owned by a South African firm I believe. Most industries in Milwaukee have left for overseas or the U.S. South. Milwaukee was never a large white-collar city, it was mostly blue-collar to the core. There are little opportunities to gain white-collar employment (of high wages at least), with upward mobility, in Milwaukee. Most educated young people leave Milwaukee they don't come to it. Sao Paulo on the other hand drives much of the Brazilian economy, is an international city, and produces fashion and trend. When was the last time you heard of Milwaukee producing any fashion or even being known as a place to put on fashion shows? Young educated Brazilians can seek capitalistic fortune in Sao Paulo. Young folks in the U.S. can seek it in Chicago or New York - but who in the h*ll in 2007 seeks it in Milwaukee? Milwaukee is a city culturally proud of two things (besides beer): it's blue-collar past and its strong socialist past. If you like "scenic" sh*t in Milwaukee, per city planning that is, then you are probably admiring the fruits of the socialist leaders and socialist backers that produced it by city money and legislation. All those parks in Milwaukee are the product of all those former socialist Germans that use to live in the city.

Frankly, Sao Paulo bests Milwaukee in scope of entertainment, capitalist pursuits, restaurants, theaters and over-all fast lane cosmopolitan life. If one can not "make it" so to speak in the cut-throat capitalist environment of Sao Paulo, then they likely will not do well in Milwaukee as there is little employment opportunity for big-boy capitalism in Milwaukee.

As for tourism: Sao Paulo is far more like New York and Chicago than Milwaukee is like those two cities. So it depends on what one is looking for. If one prefers to visit a small parochial town that is more inward looking and lacks capitalist sophistication (such as the tailored grooming of the Stock Market folks) then they will have a hard-on for Milwaukee. If they like capitalist, "piss on the poor," fine restaurants, luxury suits, top dollar Italian cut suits, and tight-a** women under the arm, then they will like visiting Sao Paulo no doubt over Milwaukee (if they can afford to travel in that company in Sao Paulo).
...
written by e harmony, June 12, 2007
Jo Jo
written by Simpleton, 2007-06-11 23:51:10
What? E harm doesn't find the Milwaukee scene entertaining enough? Hard to believe.


I never made that assertion. I spoke to the observable fact Milwaukee is no where on the international or capitalistic scale and class of titan international cities like Sao Paulo - or of New York.


Rush hour in Milwaukee is still only a 1/2 hour long. Basically you can get from anywhere to anywhere safely in 40 minutes or less (that's 15-28 miles end point to end point not kilometers!!!) ...


That is not entirely true. Damn the far South Side, one can spend just an hour attempting to drive from the near South Side to the far North Side during rush hour on city streets. And as most work is now in other counties like Waukesha, you will frequently spend an hour getting back into the city through congested highway traffic during rush hour (note the same is true of all the people living in Waukesha, but working the best and most high paid jobs in downtown Milwaukee, leaving back out the city in the opposite direction).

While car crashes are common in the city, I will say few people dieing in car crashes in Milwaukee or on the highways within the metro region.

But really, high money ballers I doubt, aren't looking for where in the h*ll they can drive easily through or bicycle through. You want that you may come to Milwaukee, or better yet De Moines, Iowa or Charlotte, North Carolina. People don't go to big capitalist cities like New York or Sao Paulo for "Leave It To Beaver" family day or the superb biking trails. They go for their cut-throat fast life, for some of the best tits and a**, for the glitter of gold on the young "dons" wrists, and the greed in the hearts of the wealthy made evident in their smirks.
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written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
I'm kinda disappointed at the ignorance I've read in some postings. I haven't been to Brazil, but I do know that Salvador (Bahia) was your first and colonial capital, and of more historical significance than today's more popular cities of Rio and Sao Paulo, contrary to a reader who wrote that the northeast had never contributed. Also, I understand Salvador has one of the lowest crime rates in the whole of South America, and especially compared to Rio and Sao Paulo. Bahia is also the heart of black Brazil (which is pretty much every Brazilian to some degree) Did you check out the msn list of hottest places to visit in 2007?? Salvador da Bahia was No. 9 and was the only Brazilian city on the list. Stop hiding your blacks and celebrate Bahia.


This is not ignorance, it is a fact. They have always been backwards, they were in favor of the portuguese when Brazil was seeking independence, they were in favor of slavery while many in the south were trying to abolish it, and you still find today traces of the old patriarcal society in some places there where the "coronel" rule everyone. I invite you to learn about brazilian history in order to clear out these misconceptions you have. Salvador is not and never was the heart of Brazil, and definitely is not representative of this entire country.

BTW, the first brazilian city was São Vicente in the state of São Paulo. The significance of São Paulo, and of the southeast in general, to the construction of Brazil is much greater than that of the northeast. The northeast is more of a weight we need to carry around, I guess because of their "ass-shaking" culture. If they were a bit more intellectual then this country would evolve faster.

But if all you seek is "beer, women and ass-shaking" then Salvador is not that bad. It's a matter of values.
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written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
By the way, José Bonifácio, the brazilian equivalent of a founding father of the country was born in Santos (in São Paulo) and died in Rio.
Brazilian is correcto!
written by GTY, June 12, 2007
"But if all you seek is "beer, women and ass-shaking" then Salvador is not that bad. It's a matter of values. "

What a great tourism slogan "if you value beer, women and ass-shaking, then Salvador is not that bad", where do I sign up??

Actually I prefer the "intellectually challenged" North East to Salvador. If its time off for vacation Brazil has so many great choices...last year we went to Trancoso and Bonita. But I have to be honest, Rio has worn thin, I visit both Rio and Sao Paulo frequently on business and know both well...give me Sao Paulo anyday, much more "civilized". The interior of Sao Paulo State looks like the Central Valley of California, including the brand new roads and huge agri-business. Carioca's still rely on Carnaval and sex tourism to generate wealth, they will screw you for a nickel, both figuritvly and literally.
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written by daveiiiiii, June 12, 2007
Give me a break. SP is loaded with whores and sex tourists. It just covered up much better than Sal and RJ. S##t is like a plague now all over Brasil. Try getting on an elevator with some of those jacka$$e$. It's a no brainer that more industry rolls through SP than RJ tourist industry.

The country becomes civil when the elite spend money hlthcare reform, secondary education for the poor, open the doors for poor young males...so crime isnt open, eliminate prostitution and cut back on their own pensions
Dave
written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
The "elite" nonsense just gives a hint about your political views. Everyone should have his own sense of duty and pursue education by their own will and conscience. What the government needs to do, not the elite, is to make quality education available. Then it's up to the person to be successful. See? No "elites" involved.

I wouldn't be so harsh on Brazil about whores because what we see in the US and Europe is the "de-christianization", where it is "cool" to have behavior considered immoral among christians. With 300 million inhabitants the US has the potential to become a much bigger whorehouse.

And, yes, Rio and Salvador are the preferred locations for sex tourism, you like it or not. Perhaps you should tell where have you been in Sao Paulo for getting to such conclusions. Some night club? Would you expect to find nuns or virgins in such places? Simply genius, he went to the market, where the pieces of meat are exposed for others to choose from, and then, surprise, found whores. Haha

Give up, Sao Paulo is the economical center of Brazil. They produce almost 1/3 of all the wealth of this country. Are you saying that most people don't go there on business trips but for "sex tourism"? Haha
To:E Harmony/ Milwaukee
written by João da Silva, June 12, 2007
Thank you so much for updating me about the situation of Milwaukee and I did enjoy reading about it. My question: Your comments describe the current situation of just the city or the entire state of Wisconsin?

I find the comments from various readers on this article exremely interesting,including yours. As GTY put it very well, there is a difference between a "Tourist" and a "Traveler". These two categories can be divided into various sub segments also. So if you really look at it, the business travelers who go to cities like S.Paulo, NYC,Chicago,London, Paris,etc turn "Tourists" after the business hours and the cities have nice things to offer. On the other hand, you have "Tourists" who go on packaged tours to certain places expecting something different or to tell their neigbors that they have gone to different places within and outside their countries. In this case they dont learn anything about the culture of other people and tend to streotype them all. A pefect example would be to classify the Brazilian culture to be "beer,women and ass shaking",by visiting just a few places and not caring to understand nor appreciate our culture,geography and other good things we have.

As for me, I dont like to go on package tours (even in Brazil) and I like my independence to drive around,walk,appreciate the nature,smell the seasons and the flowers,watch the birds and animals and appreciate others culture and listen to folklores of nice people sharing drinking cold ones. Of course, we have several places to go to and feel good as travelers or tourists.Brazil is a huge country and it is not just the beaches of Rio or Salvador or the fine restaurants of S.Paulo.We may not have Mickey Ds in small places,but one can find tasty food in clean and comfortable snack bars.
Bahia
written by San Antonio, June 12, 2007
Thanks for the insight A brazilian. I am African of part Portuguese-Brazilian origin and you must understand my bias. To most of the outside world, it is the culture of Bahia that is representative of Brazil. I have been to Europe and North America and now live in North America and even here, it is the culture of black Brazil that people associate Brazil with and not that of Europe (Portugal) though Brazil is a blend of both cultures. It is easy for you to condemn Bahia today as backward because money talks in this day and age and it's where the money's at that counts.Slavery, wrong as it was, fueled the Brazilian economy for centuries and sad to say is the only reason Brazil has any relevance today.
To:GTY
written by João da Silva, June 12, 2007
I can see you now, on the beach in Rio, black socks and tennis shoes


It is no longer black socks and tennis shoes. I heard that our PF is insisting that the Europeans wear black socks and Havaianas while going through the Immigration and Customs and be dressed in these attire while in Brazil. I can visualize the machiavellic Professor´s role in bringing in the new rules.

So the Europeans in general and Swiss in particular have to wear Black socks and Pink Havaianas, when they visit Brazil.
The false culture
written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
To most of the outside world, it is the culture of Bahia that is representative of Brazil. I have been to Europe and North America and now live in North America and even here, it is the culture of black Brazil that people associate Brazil with and not that of Europe (Portugal) though Brazil is a blend of both cultures.


Whatever you might think doesn't change the reality.

Slavery, wrong as it was, fueled the Brazilian economy for centuries and sad to say is the only reason Brazil has any relevance today.


No, it was the industrialization of the first half of the 20th century that did, otherwise Brazil would be just a "big farm". The problem with the culture from Bahia and the culture publicized worldwide as "Brazilian" is that it is a very low one. It's praised, but from a purely anthropological point of view or just out of "political correctness", the same way a culture of some primitive tribe from the middle of the Amazon would be.

In this case the afro-culture is seen as an interesting object, just that. Europeans and americans would never expect to learn anything from it because it is an object.

On the other hand when you think of Germany you think of Goethe, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and others. When you think of England you think of Shakespeare. When you think of Italy you think of Da Vinci, etc. Do you see the difference? You don't read Goethe and see it as an object, you see him as a master!

Those cultures, real cultures, are a glimpse of the genius and a statement: this is what this people is capable of. It's not due to the lack of talent that Brazil is not known similarly, since we have many great philosophers, writers and artists, that would exemplify perfectly the "brazilian genius", but due to a systematic dumbing down of Brazil performed by the government.

So all it shows of Brazil for gringos are advertisements of half-naked women on beaches and half-naked people dancing on the streets. This afro stuff is trash and this afro-centrism is gets to everyone's nerves. Do you know what is to live with low self esteem people that will make stupid claims in the hope of getting attention? They don't need to be recognized, what they need is education and the supervision of a shrink. They should give up on this glorification of stupity and show their geniuses to the world, then they would be respected as masters, not falsely respected as objects.

This "Brazil" from the gringo's minds is pathetic, even for brazilian standards.
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written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
The German institute responsible to spread the German culture around the world is called "Goethe institute". The Spanish one is "Cervantes Institute", the Portuguese "Camões Institute". If we had one what would it be? "Samba, Football and Sex" Institute? Haha

The hell with this non-sense.
Bahia
written by San Antonio, June 12, 2007
Notwithstanding the negativity I read on this site, I still am a big fan of Brazil and probably will always be (maybe until I finally pay a visit) For myself and many Africans, it remains a part of our history and influences our culture greatly. Modern day development is a whole nother story. Even the U.S. became really industrialized after slavery but would you say that the centuries of free labour from the Africans played no part in this development? The Europeans have always presented their culture differently from Africans or Latin Americans and as these Westerners control the media, we only see what they present to the world, which is quite unfortunate. If I saw a Brazilian cultural centre located next door to a Geothe institute and I had only a half hour to spare, do you think I would even contemplate going into Geothe?? Hell no. Brazil, whether you like it or not is a migrant nation, with the exception of the Amerindian. Presenting the Euro culture as yours would be false because it is a corrupt version of the Portuguese culture that you have. Even the Portuguese language as it is spoken in Brazil I understand is different. I personally don't buy into the gringos perception of Brazil as it is only one-sided. Everytime I mention that I would love to visit Brazil, people automatically assume its for the girls. I tell them that would be nice, but it's also the land of some of my ancestors and that's what draws me to Brazil.There are beautiful women everywhere.
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written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
The Portuguese language is just one, what changes are the accents the same way an English sounds like an English and an American from Texas sounds like an American from Texas, and an American from New York sounds like an American from New York, but they all speak English. With the Portuguese language the same happens. The only difference are of the same kind you find between British English and American English, some words have a different spelling.

This thing of "different language" is another cliché used to discredit the European heritage, or simply by some reaction Americans were conditioned to, the one of dividing peoples. The "Disunited States of America" is a country of many ethniticies and each call themselves something other than "American", and some are even proud of not speaking English. For a mind used to it it's unconceivable that a country like Brazil would have only Brazilians speaking the same language as the Portuguese.

This is another point the mind of Americans are stuck, they can't conceive that a country would create its own culture, they believe you are forever connected to something elsewhere, even if your family have been here for hundreds of years. They call it "be proud of your origins", bah. Pathetic. My only origin is Brazil and since the beginning it started differently, not just a copy of the Portuguese one. You just can't separate things! That must be why you feel related to English somehow.

BTW, last time I checked on the map Brazil is on the western hemisphere. There's no such thing of "corrupt" version of any culture, because the Brazilian culture is the Brazilian culture, that European one is in the past. The only thing I am saying is that the Brazilian culture is not the "Brazilian culture" as portrayed in the half naked advertisement you saw or pursued fanatically by the baianos or cariocas of "samba, football and sex".

If by "Westerners" manipulating the media "white americans" it is still wrong. There's a deliberate policy from the leftists in Brazil to portray culture as a "people's expression". The high culture is seen as "the bourguese culture" and together with the "bourguese religion and morals" (i.e., catholicism) it must be destroyed. They are rewriting history, glorifying the stupidity and painting Brazil in different colors for their Communist goals.

You may have created a fantasy for yourself about Brazil, but it still doesn't change the reality. Sorry.
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written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
More concisely, Brazil is in the process of shaping up as a civilization on its own merit and you are not helping. For that we need real worthy people and not mindless idiots dancing. Wishing otherwise is unnatural, as if a man could live its entire life in the mother's womb and never needed to be born. Africa, Europe, Asia, etc are in the past, and they should stay there, so this country can grow.
Bahia
written by San Antonio, June 12, 2007
I respect your opinion and I think I understand what you're saying. Forming a "Brazilian" civilization does not mean forgetting your roots. Brazil is a new world nation and like I said earlier, if you're not Amerindian, you are descended of immigrants (willing and unwilling) who came to Brazil anything from last year to 400 years ago. Whether you like it or not, that's the truth and that's the way it will always be seen during our lifetime. I don't dispute the fact that you are a Brazilian citizen, but you must be Amerindian for you to say your origins are only in Brazil. I have plans to visit Brazil next year for about a week and for me would be a dream come true. Brazil might not be as "nice" as other countries that I've been to or live but it would be a great spiritual experience for me. Brazil is also emerging as a world player and it makes me smile (I don't even know why, lol). In any event, Portuguese folks have told me that the language as it is spoken in Brazil is more than just the accent difference. Standard English (British) and US English are also more different than just the accent, though the same language.
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written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
Slangs, expressions, some words are more used than the others, the grammar is the same. Same language.
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written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
Forming a "Brazilian" civilization does not mean forgetting your roots. Brazil is a new world nation and like I said earlier, if you're not Amerindian, you are descended of immigrants (willing and unwilling) who came to Brazil anything from last year to 400 years ago.


You are incorrect, having an identity is not just a biological factor, as Americans think, since such identity is largely dependent in bonds created with certains groups of people and social context. And adding mixing to the story even complicates things even more, since the visual identification that might eventually occur due to physical characteristics is not possible. Only recent immigrants knows for sure their places of origin, have not mixed with others, and still have contact with the old country and family. For all the rest Brazil is the only root because they don't even know what ancestors they have.

If by "roots" you mean genetic code then it means nothing for your current situation.

For such "roots" system to work it would be needed the constant cultivation of the old culture and the prevention from mixing, which is detrimental for the development of the people as one people and racist. That's why Brazil is a country of one people and the US is a country of many peoples, which will unite only when attacking others.
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written by e harmony, June 12, 2007
To:E Harmony/ Milwaukee
written by João da Silva, 2007-06-12 14:02:58
Thank you so much for updating me about the situation of Milwaukee and I did enjoy reading about it. My question: Your comments describe the current situation of just the city or the entire state of Wisconsin?


Only Milwaukee, or some key post-industrial cities in southern Wisconsin, or both Milwaukee and the entire state of Wisconsin depending on what subject one is talking about.

Wisconsin has lost it claim to being the dairy capital to California, and Wisconsin farmers now say they will in the coming decades be shut out of business from the massive farmers being created in Brazil. Most of Wisconsin, like every other state in the United States, is mostly rural, but most people live in the cities. Frankly, the culture between "Wisconsin" and Milwaukee are extremely different, minus both historical emphasis on "hard work." Milwaukee, though a mid-size city and very parochial, is nonetheless fairly cosmopolitan, and has inherited many cultural traits from Chicago due to much sharing and communication between the two. When Ice Berg Slim started pimping he did so in Milwaukee and then moved to Chicago and became big time. The La Cosa Nostra in Milwaukee never stat on the "board" and always answered to Chicago. The political and business leaders of Milwaukee in conjunction with the air port in Milwaukee, markets the city as "Chicago's Third Airport." Almost everyone in Milwaukee has family in Chicago. People in Milwaukee dress more like people in Chicago or Detroit than they do to people in L.A. or New York. But, Milwaukee has none of the ambition, innovation, or white-collar prows of a city like Chicago, Sao Paulo, New York, or London or Tokyo. Milwaukee is not international and does not really care what is going on outside Milwaukee - unless of course it directly effects her in a major way.

Madison, Wisconsin is the second biggest city in Wisconsin and the state capital. It is a college town, and nationally UW-Madison is known as one of the biggest party universities, consequently Madison is something of "party town" itself. Madison is a world leader in bio-technology, but outside of that there is not much major white-collar employment. It use to be, that Milwaukee generated a lot of revenue in that it drove a respectable percentage of that state's economy. Now, the state of Wisconsin has to help financially support the city of Milwaukee to stop it from collapsing.


I find the comments from various readers on this article exremely interesting,including yours. As GTY put it very well, there is a difference between a "Tourist" and a "Traveler". These two categories can be divided into various sub segments also. So if you really look at it, the business travelers who go to cities like S.Paulo, NYC,Chicago,London, Paris,etc turn "Tourists" after the business hours and the cities have nice things to offer. On the other hand, you have "Tourists" who go on packaged tours to certain places expecting something different or to tell their neigbors that they have gone to different places within and outside their countries. In this case they dont learn anything about the culture of other people and tend to streotype them all. A pefect example would be to classify the Brazilian culture to be "beer,women and ass shaking",by visiting just a few places and not caring to understand nor appreciate our culture,geography and other good things we have.


I'm no expert on issues of tourism, but I do know Milwaukee has over the last few recent years, dramatically invested in building a "convention center" and advertising to attract business travelers. Supposedly this is suppose to be were a large amount of tourism revenue can be generated now-a-days in cities. So I would see no reason why it would not be the same regarding Sao Paulo.
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written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
The sons of immigrants in a country like the US must live in some sort of purgatory, they are just stuck and can't go either way. They aren't considered Americans because of their origin, but they also don't have contact with their supposed countries of origin. Can you imagine this situation after 4 generations? The people that might have had any direct contact with some other culture will be dead, the individual will speak the local language only and will have no contact with the other country.

In Brazil you don't hear people questioning the Brazilianity of anybody because of their looks. Except the obvious immigrants that have some strong accent, the rest is just considered Brazilian. The ones that like to talk about their "origins" do it out of free will, nobody obligates them to do so.
Bahia
written by San Antonio, June 12, 2007
I do not agree on the point of having roots only when you have family contact with your country of origin. If you are black, or afro-descendante as you call it in Brazil, your roots are in Africa period. I am not saying that you are socialized exactly as a continental African is but the truth is your way of life still shows traits of Africa from your skin colour and racial features to your religious practices of Africa or Catholicism or a mix of both as I've seen. Your roots my dear are determined by your race and DNA. While Brazilians are probably one of the nicest folks I've met, I don't get a sense of "Brazilian Pride" necessarily from them as I do the Americans or the French. Your assertion that because the US is a racially segregated society, the children of immigrants are not considered Americans is completely false. Brazilians may not appear to question one another's identity because they have been taught to see themselves really as Brazilians and have cross-bred so much that it socially starts to be irrelevant since the average Brazilian has a drop of all three major races. From what I hear, blacks (including mixed race) tend to be the poorest in Brazil and though there are poor whites, majority of them tend to be white and you tell me there's no difference in Brazil?? You must be kidding me. If the blacks in Brazil are too ignorant or naive I should say (and I apologize for the use of such words as I don't mean it in a derogatory manner)to see clearly, it must be very unfortunate and their lot will never improve.
Bahia Tour
written by San Antonio, June 12, 2007
On a lighter note, are there any reliable and safe same day tours of Salvador from Rio by road? How far apart are these two cities by road and how good are the roads.
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written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
I am not saying that you are socialized exactly as a continental African is but the truth is your way of life still shows traits of Africa from your skin colour and racial features to your religious practices of Africa or Catholicism or a mix of both as I've seen. Your roots my dear are determined by your race and DNA.


Not really, such things are taught. I have met many Japanese descendents living in Brazil that were warm and sentimental, and the Japanese aren't known for these characteristics. Some things might be defined by the genetic inheritance, but those would be predispositions only. The realization of such predisposition would depend on the social context. For example a Japanese in Japan would suffer much more pressure to behave in such a way in Japan and in another way in Brazil, that could allow them to express something they wouldn't otherwise.

The way I see race is the same as blood type. There are many types, but this is something purely biological and carry no judgements of value associated. Does anyone feel pride about being O ? That doesn't make any sense. The idea of race as a determining factor for the individual stems exclusively from the American culture, that borrowed it from the English.

You have issues, you must sort it out. But we have nothing to do with it, and we must build our own civilization instead of adoption less progressive ideals, that would stigmatize people in bad ways. Besides such abomination would mean a subordination of Brazil to the narrow confines of the Anglo-saxon mindset, which would prevent it from evolving.

Brazilians may not appear to question one another's identity because they have been taught to see themselves really as Brazilians and have cross-bred so much that it socially starts to be irrelevant since the average Brazilian has a drop of all three major races. From what I hear, blacks (including mixed race) tend to be the poorest in Brazil and though there are poor whites, majority of them tend to be white and you tell me there's no difference in Brazil?? You must be kidding me.


Well, mixed race aren't blacks. And how successful a person is has nothing to do with his or her race, since there are many blondes that are poor, and I have met some, and blacks that are rich. If you care to learn about Brazil, not about stereotypes promoted by idiots, then you would know what I am talking about. Now you are going to base all your judgement on Bahia...

The "Brazilian Pride" is well deserved since we achieved what no other people would be capable of. Although Brazil has many bad things, this is one of the things we can really be proud of. Other cultures, with the Anglo-saxon ones being a shining example, have race as one of the core values of the society.

If the blacks in Brazil are too ignorant or naive I should say (and I apologize for the use of such words as I don't mean it in a derogatory manner)to see clearly, it must be very unfortunate and their lot will never improve.


Any poor can improve with effort, and for that good values are key characteristics. All successful people have in common that didn't spend any time whining instead of other more productive activities.
To:E Harmony
written by João da Silva, June 12, 2007
I'm no expert on issues of tourism, but I do know Milwaukee has over the last few recent years, dramatically invested in building a "convention center" and advertising to attract business travelers. Supposedly this is suppose to be were a large amount of tourism revenue can be generated now-a-days in cities. So I would see no reason why it would not be the same regarding Sao Paulo.


This is the problem with small cities that lost their competiveness and want to build "Convention centers" to attract tourists. Chicago and S.Paulo are mega centers and built on Industries and dynamic enough to change and adapt to the new realities. Both the cities have convention centers built decades ago to receive business vitors/Tourists. So there is no need for S.Paulo nor Chicago to promote themselves as the paradise for the tourists and that is the reason, I started criticizing this article!

As for Milwaukee building "convention Centers", it happens in Brazil too. We call it "Turismo de negocios" Or "Business Tourism".Building Convention Centers in the Boondoks and trying to attract tourists.Will not work.
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written by A brazilian, June 12, 2007
This stereotypical vision of a people is so ridiculous. In one of those crappy Brazilian soap operas they put an "indian" comic character that would be just like the stereotype, talking with a strong accent and and making reference to some "jungle-like" life. Little after some groups of indigenous people complained because the character was implying the indians were primitive. It happens that today indians watch TV, go to college, pay taxes and all. There was even an indian philosopher angry at how they were portrayed in the soap opera.

Have you paid attention, an indian philosopher!? What? Blasphemy! Learning from Plato and Aristotle? They are denying their race! They should be "proud" of the funny earrings they used and wear war paintings! Hahahahaha

Seriously, the only thing limiting some blacks (not all of course) is the insistence in ignoring education and just whine. The successful blacks become traitors and the brazilians blacks are "denying their race" because they don't hate themselves.
You've been wonderful tonight
written by Simpleton, June 12, 2007
Abe, you've been marvelhous here of late. Thank you.

Sand Ant, with your obvious issues you probably can't really hear what Ab is telling you. To be direct regarding some of your queries, no, there is no safe road from anywhere to anywhere by car much less from Rio to Sal. Besides, you'd be talking an ungodly number of hours even by direct route on an interstate bus - best to drop that idea if you ever do opt to go for your first visit (or even for a lifetime). If your intended point of entry / main stay is Rio, better you find an intercity cab or bus and take in the scenery during the ride and find yourself a small pousada near or on the beach in some town closer to Rio or just shack up in sin city and take the day tours offering boat rides. If the image of the city of Salvador you've built up in your mind just won't let you let go of that, take a plane and plan on spending a weekend or there abouts. If it's just that Salvadorans and this mystique of afro-culturism that pique your interest, spend a better part of a week in Parati instead, you'll avoid most of the dangers and chances are you will run into a few bahians with a little bling (showing but a bit more subdued than that in americanass do norte), education and outgoing personalities that will fill your thirst for cultural knowledge. On the other hand, if it's strictly the pro's and or bunda shakeing you're after - make some friends in Miami instead.
~ Peace 2 All ~
written by True African, June 13, 2007
I have read all the comments above & feel a little bit hurt. Am a young Ugandan guy in his early 30's who has all his life dreamt of visiting Brasil someday. Back here in Uganda we watch a major brasilian T.V channel called RECORD & its amazing. If one has the chance to watch it, it will finally dawn on them that every state in Brazil has something unique to offer to the world. I have travelled quite a bit around the world in the past but i have never seen such a fasicnating place like Brasil in my life. Brasil is AWESOME!!! Honestly speaking, Bahia is my dream destination & hope to buy there a house someday too, God willing.
Personally, i have always found the true richness of Brasil in its people.The few brasilians i have known in my life have all left me with very beautiful memories that i will live to cherish forver.
To me, when one has a brazilian as a friend then they are now able to define the word "LOVE".
I Love You Brasil!!!
Ciao to all! smilies/kiss.gif
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written by e harmony, June 13, 2007
~ Peace 2 All ~
written by True African, 2007-06-13 07:04:27
I have read all the comments above & feel a little bit hurt. Am a young Ugandan guy in his early 30's who has all his life dreamt of visiting Brasil someday. Back here in Uganda we watch a major brasilian T.V channel called RECORD & its amazing. If one has the chance to watch it, it will finally dawn on them that every state in Brazil has something unique to offer to the world. I have travelled quite a bit around the world in the past but i have never seen such a fasicnating place like Brasil in my life. Brasil is AWESOME!!! Honestly speaking, Bahia is my dream destination & hope to buy there a house someday too, God willing.
Personally, i have always found the true richness of Brasil in its people.The few brasilians i have known in my life have all left me with very beautiful memories that i will live to cherish forver.
To me, when one has a brazilian as a friend then they are now able to define the word "LOVE".
I Love You Brasil!!!
Ciao to all!


I think mostly everyone on earth has some degree of stereotypes in their head about some people or place. And many stereotypes perhaps have their origin in some degree of truth however large or small. Some stereotypes are probably simply lies repeated enough to seem as if they are true.

That said, given the two nations San Antonio mentioned, France and the United States, and being the product of the United States myself, I can surmise that what San Antonio refers to as "pride" is more than likely really hyper-nationalism.

As far as European classical culture, it is something to learn about and remember, but it is not a be-all end-all. When the United States entered WWII most the middle-class in the U.S. were devoted readers of comic books. In Germany on the other hand, most their middle-class were devoted readers of the European classics. Keep in mind that Germany was one of the most educated societies when the Nazi party rose to power. Apparently education does not equal correct moral disposition. (not to say there were not other forces that led to the rise of the Nazi party and their power)

There is nothing wrong with samba. In fact, music is one of the two or few universal languages, I have read (math being another). So samba being a mix of universal language and physical dance that requires coordinated movement, tending to unite people through entertainment, is just as much "culture" as reading some book written by some European philosopher a few hundred years ago who liked to wear wigs on his head. (or make-up on his face)

The United States is not at all a tea-tooting culture with it's pinky-finger stuck out. It's hamburgers, American football, The Jerry-Springer show, and gas guzzling SUV's, it's Cowboys and comic book heros. And the United States has no problem making a huge economy and has developed a decent infrastructure. On the other hand, in every age, until recently, in Europe, European nations had slums as bad (or worse) as in Brazil. Europe had plenty of rural poor when her whig wearing law makers and philosophers were walking around or writing books. In fact I believe many of those poor immigrate to Brazil and the United States. A cowboy, in Brazil or the United States, may not be Plato, but he can shoot your a** dead with a six shooter (while making off with your wife).
Bahia
written by San Antonio, June 13, 2007
Thanks Simpleton for that piece of advice and I will take very seriously. I would visit Bahia if I got the chance to but Rio would be my mainstay. I don't necessarily need to "learn" about Afro-culture from Bahia or from anyone at that since I am African born and raised. It's just that my interest in Brazil seems to have its root in Bahia. A brazilian automatically assumed that I was being critical of Brazil (don't know why) because of my professed "love: for Bahia. I believe in embracing culture in all of its diversity and Brazil is in that position to do just that. Take away Samba and Capoeira and culturally, Brazil is dead. You may be able to improve technologically and economically but the culture question would always come back to haunt you - ask the Americans (and I am by no means suggesting that Americans be role models for Brazilians). Embracing your afro and indian cultures (it seems those are the two you have problems identifying with) does not in any way make you less Brazilian (is that what you're afraid of?) There is no cultural erosion here. Matter of fact, it makes you richer culturally. In response to A brazilian, yes mixed race is different from black. Mulatto includes black but is not black. It is surprising that you would say that and not agree with me that your race and roots are determined by your DNA. If it was such a "social" issue of determination of race, mulattoes would be considered black (as they are in Europe and North America) because they are for the most part socialized as blacks. I however think it's ignorant for a mulatto to be classified as black because they are in the strict sense not. My point though was that I hear in Brazil there are poor blacks and whites (including your blonde fantasies) but majority of the rich are white (meaning there are a few rich people of colour) and this isn't just in Bahia but the whole of Brazil. This holds true in the U.S. and Europe as well so Brazilian blacks are not alone in their plight. E-harmony, you are right my friend. The U.S. case is probably truly better described as hyper-nationalism and not "pride". Thanks.
...
written by A brazilian, June 13, 2007
The problem occurs is when such dances become the only and true culture. In Brazil people will do what gringos think they should do simply because they have a weak mind and don't know better. Their lives become a stereotype. All of this could be avoided if they knew their culture, their real culture and not this nonsense.

Without a proper education people are defenseless. They won't be able to use their judgement correctly and will become peons for corrupt people. They also lose the ability to perceive the essence of things and just worry about the looks. That's why many Brazilians are so shallow, all they care and all they know about are appearances.

But the worst part is not that. Do you know what's the difference between German, Japanese and African descendents? The first two are quiet and you can ignore their existence if you want so. The third will be make such a noise just about everything, will act as if they owned the place and everyone else is just an annoying guest, will pretend that every single grain of sand of this country belongs to them, and tell everyone that everything that exist in this country exist because of them. Not even indians act this way!

And I am not sure why do you insist with this Portuguese stuff. There's no such thing as choosing one over the other, because there's only a Brazilian culture. Adopting foreign cultures is not good, at least not in this way. It's good only if you can break it up to pieces, get what you need and add it to the whole, but then it would be something new.
From those next door or from far away
writte