Brazzil

The doubling of the salary has not been refused, as John says, but will be reviewed. That is not the same...at ALL !!!!!

And brazilians politicians are not that stupid. Like every brazilian, they ask for a very large increase....and finally....
SETTLE FOR LESS !!!!!

Furthermore, assuming they still double their salaries, this would still represents ONLY around 20 % of their income....
WHEN ALL THE PERKS ARE INCLUDED !!!!!

An article on this site giving all the details obtained a TOTAL monthly income of Reais 116'000.- IF SALARIES ARE DOUBLED !!!!!

It means that if you give them ZERO increase it would still make around Reais 104'000.- PER MONTH !!!!!

And as the end result will most probably be an increase of 30 % minimum on their "basic" salary...they will still end up with around Reais 110'000.- MONTHLY.....WITH ALL THE PERKS INCLUDED !!!!!

In any case they will end up with a total income of well over Reais 1 million....PER YEAR.....WITH OR WITHOUT SALARIES
BEING RAISED !!!!!!!!

This of course doesnt include yet their income neither from other "legal" sources nor their revenues from their ....CORRUPTED DAILY PRACTICES !!!!!!!!

I thought that John was more clever ! Looks like....I was wrong !!!!

The only people who have rights in Brazil are the politicians. They even voted for laws that if they are found guilty of corruption....they can either resign....and still be a candidate for the next elections without any penalty whatsoever.....OR.....they will be absolved....in a secret vote.... by their peers.....as much corrupted anyway !!!

This is called a WIN WIN JOB.....REGARDLESS OF THE POLITICAL PARTY THEY BELONG TO !

On the other hand.....what was/is the right of the young lady, aged 19, who recently was given 4 years in jail....because she has stolen a tube of....BUTTER ??????????

That is the sad reality of your IN/Justice !

A human tragedy is what Brazil is all about.

People´s rights are best not meddled by forriegn elements who's prime interest is to make scandal in order to receive profits. A soverign nation's 1st right is to throw out such mal-intent personages.

Secondly, the US which purports to have so many rights in reality has so many laws along with out of contrlo enforcement that really Brasil has much more defacto freedom and by wxtension, rights!

Re: Sarney....What do you mean he had the legal right to govern but not the moral right to govern? Define Moral Right. The right to govern in a democracy is purely legal due to the way the elections are legally set up, decided by the vote. This kind of statement can be inserted and slip right by, unnoticed.

Would Sarney have been morally correct if having been next in line to govern, he had refused to do so? To not discharge his legal obligation?

Secondly, the US which purports to have so many rights in reality has so many laws along with out of contrlo enforcement that really Brasil has much more defacto freedom and by wxtension, rights!

You have a point, especially after the "patriot act", which was anything but what a real patriot would prescribe.

Yet, the situation in brazil, where there is little to no enforcement of MANY laws can be compared to in many places with the "Wild West" in the U.S. in the 1800's.

I guess you could say that there is more freedom in Brazil than the US, if your definition of freedom involves the acceptance of a predatory social environment in which virtually any law can easily be circumvented by the payment of a large enough bribe. In fact, in Brazil, with enough money, nothing is illegal. By the way, who was the last Brazilian ‘fat cat’ who went to jail for his illegal activities? Hmmmm???? What’s the matter? Can’t think of any? Well then there you have – real freedom.

Naji Nahas?

I hAVE to agree Brazil is a Human tragedy. A country that could be so much better, and could also contribute to the world in many ways is a waste. Brazilian's selffisheness, arrogancy and lack of compansion and lawless. Brazil's elite stink. They just want a public job, full of rights and retire rich. Couple weeks ago I went to a TRT (justice) building in Brasilia, capital, and they just start to work after noon. That low mentality infuriated me all and the world as a whole.

Throw out NGO interlopers
written by Stevea1, 2006-12-30 17:33:35

Secondly, the US which purports to have so many rights in reality has so many laws along with out of contrlo enforcement that really Brasil has much more defacto freedom and by wxtension, rights!

In many respects I agree with you. In fact I made a similar argument to my brother as to one of the major problems effecting the masses in Brazil and Mexico: they have to much freedom.

The reality is in the United States building codes grant less freedom to developers or builders than what you apparently find in Brazil and Mexico. The reality is the United States Government extends less freedom to individual and group rights when it comes to attacking national interests (which includes the financial sectors). Brazilian and Mexicans may not believe it because many are effected by U.S. propaganda and sells pitches of "freedom," but had any gang in the United States attacked police stations, banks, and public buses as the gangs in Rio and Sao Paulo did, the United States Government would classified them as a terrorist organization and handled them effectively - as well all those that mere breath their way.

Freedoms are good, but they can not be at the expense of the well being of the masses. Civility requires caring for the vulnerable not just applauding the rich. You can have this in a democracy, you can even have this under an adoption of capitalism. Yet, when capitalism becomes savage like it has long been in Brazil and Mexico (which resembles the savage capitalism of 1800's and early 1900's United States) it's the majority in the country that will suffer. Brazilian politicians and Brazilian gangs are in reality just being good proponents of savage capitalism and seeking their own profit and profit rates of increase as the only reasonable and moral right.

Civility requires caring for the vulnerable not just applauding the rich. You can have this in a democracy, you can even have this under an adoption of capitalism. Yet, when capitalism becomes savage like it has long been in Brazil and Mexico (which resembles the savage capitalism of 1800's and early 1900's United States) it's the majority in the country that will suffer. Brazilian politicians and Brazilian gangs are in reality just being good proponents of savage capitalism and seeking their own profit and profit rates of increase as the only reasonable and moral right.

I just have this to say: real care for the vulnerable is provide them with help to make them help themselves. Never give money without a counter-accomplishment. See your today's broken state of welfare in US, and in EU too, which citizens spoil themselves and turn the state financially broke.

Think of savage captalism in a worldwide context, then in a Latin American context and, finally, in a Brazilian context. Where do the Brazilian politicians and gangs are placed in this savage chain?

And last, but not least

People´s rights are best not meddled by forriegn elements who's prime interest is to make scandal in order to receive profits. A soverign nation's 1st right is to throw out such mal-intent personages.

I agree with him and he is good.

I guess you could say that there is more freedom in Brazil than the US, if your definition of freedom involves the acceptance of a predatory social environment in which virtually any law can easily be circumvented by the payment of a large enough bribe. In fact, in Brazil, with enough money, nothing is illegal. By the way, who was the last Brazilian ‘fat cat’ who went to jail for his illegal activities? Hmmmm???? What’s the matter? Can’t think of any? Well then there you have – real freedom.

Naji Nahas?

Any idea of whom he is talking about?

written by carlota joaquina, 2007-01-01 22:02:17

I just have this to say: real care for the vulnerable is provide them with help to make them help themselves. Never give money without a counter-accomplishment. See your today's broken state of welfare in US, and in EU too, which citizens spoil themselves and turn the state financially broke.

Think of savage captalism in a worldwide context, then in a Latin American context and, finally, in a Brazilian context. Where do the Brazilian politicians and gangs are placed in this savage chain?

Well I may or may not agree with you, Carlota, depending on the context I suppose. I guess while I'm not a fan of how the "welfare" system of the United States was run in the 1980's - arguably it helped keep children's fathers out of the home - I'm neither a proponent of no social safety nets at all either.

In one way capitalism in the United States in the 1800's and into the early 1900's was savage was in the matter of employment. During that time captains of industry would often fire grown men from factories and replace them with children because children worked for less money. The gangs in Brazil - not unlike in the United States - employ children of the same ages as those that once died working in unsafe work conditions in U.S. factories. Today Brazilian gangs employ these children and utilize them as combatants against armed police officers, they even use them to attack non-combatant civilians in the streets. All profits in any business come from the same source that one pays their employees from. So upper echelons in Brazilian gangs do financially well by employing young children, in various ways, one of which is the reduction in cost as 12 year old children gang members arrested for murder or attempted murder et cetera are soon released from jail rather than doing 30 years in state prison like adults. But what of the life of these children? Are the Brazilian gangs teaching these young kids philosophy, math, science... substances of knowledge that will increase their employment opportunities in the civilian sector outside of crime? The Brazilian gangs purpose is one thing: profit. It's the same way with gangs in the U.S. - profit is their purpose.

Pope John Paul II once said that: the economy is here forpeople and not people here for the economy. John Paul II was no communist and was even harsh on Liberation Theologians in Latin America and unfortunately even harsh on father Bishop Oscar Romero. But John Paul II understood the danger in placing abstract economy as something to be hailed over human life.

Brazilian politicians should not give themselves large pay raises when so many in Brazil suffer basic needs. For me it is this simple.

The establishment of just "minimum wage," the position of the state to not just protect but promote the practice of collective bargaining is not "giving money without a counter-accomplishment." Quite the opposite I would argue and the accomplishments can be quite good.

Take Sierra Leone, with the profits obtainable in what are called "blood diamonds," instead of adult men and women collectively protesting and utilizing collective bargaining to increase their wages and as such raise their quality of life, rebels faction of armed militias emerge (now think of U.S. gangs in her inner cities and Brazilian gangs of the favelas) intent on securing power and local or regional influence by the means of inflicting terror. The ultimate purpose: profit. And this profit is meant just for a select few to horde and control while the masses in Sierra Leone suffer. I'm sure I simplified the problem in Sierra Leone to much, to the point of some inaccuracy, but my point is to suggest a methodology of thought. - Let us keep in mind that in modern times "freedom" very much correlates to an individuals access to wealth (in monetary sense). Most peoples are wage earners only a very small portion in any society, be it in Brazil or the United States, derives their income from dividends. To empower the average Brazilian, to even think of such, must be to think in terms of correlating wealth - in access - to the average Brazilian. In this same methodology of thought we think of the process of greater democratization.

We have to explain who Naji Nahas is? The question was, name a Brazilian "fat cat" who went to jail.

guess you could say that there is more freedom in Brazil than the US, if your definition of freedom involves the acceptance of a predatory social environment in which virtually any law can easily be circumvented by the payment of a large enough bribe. In fact, in Brazil, with enough money, nothing is illegal. By the way, who was the last Brazilian ‘fat cat’ who went to jail for his illegal activities? Hmmmm???? What’s the matter? Can’t think of any? Well then there you have – real freedom

Paulo Maluf.

Yet, when capitalism becomes savage like it has long been in Brazil and Mexico (which resembles the savage capitalism of 1800's and early 1900's United States) it's the majority in the country that will suffer. Brazilian politicians and Brazilian gangs are in reality just being good proponents of savage capitalism and seeking their own profit and profit rates of increase as the only reasonable and moral right.

Interdependence is the concept I understand to explain life as a whole.

The reality is in the United States building codes grant less freedom to developers or builders than what you apparently find in Brazil and Mexico. The reality is the United States Government extends less freedom to individual and group rights when it comes to attacking national interests (which includes the financial sectors). Brazilian and Mexicans may not believe it because many are effected by U.S. propaganda and sells pitches of "freedom," but had any gang in the United States attacked police stations, banks, and public buses as the gangs in Rio and Sao Paulo did, the United States Government would classified them as a terrorist organization and handled them effectively - as well all those that mere breath their way.

I believe freedom in US is a matter of money too. Not only because people can pay the most experienced lawyers to defend them from prosecutions but also because the more money you have the more options more information you have and depending on the persons more freedom as well. Although spying your emails is not exactly freedom.

The establishment of just "minimum wage," the position of the state to not just protect but promote the practice of collective bargaining is not "giving money without a counter-accomplishment." Quite the opposite I would argue and the accomplishments can be quite good

I was thinking of bolsa família (family grant). I know the poor need it but the gorvernment manipulates them and mantain the status quo instead of promoting the improvement of education and the economy.

Again, I thank you for your interest. You sound nice.

Paulo Maluf.

LOL....aren't you ashamed???? He spent less than 40 days in jail!!! And complained about prison conditions!!! LOL!!! Where is Paulo now Carlota....what an idiot.

Paulo Maluf spent EXACTLY 40 days in prison. He complained about the food he also alleged health problems and kept complaining about his "jail conditions" and ended released to respond his charges in a free regime. He is in the paulista Parliament (São Paulo State Parliament) now.

It is a pitty, paulistas ellected for him. Unfortunately, keep weak minded citizens misinformed and broke (so people cannot read the political news everyday) is as dangerous as carrying guns and bombs.

He complained about the food smilies/grin.gif he also alleged health problems and kept complaining about his "jail conditions" and ended released to respond his charges in a free regime. He is in the paulista Parliament (São Paulo State Parliament) now.

Now, here is a man that stole somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 million dollars!. Please, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was in that range. And he's STILL in politics??

Tell me Carlota, what kind of system do you call that where someone is known to have stolen hundreds of millions of dollars from the gov't., public monies, spends 40 days in jail, then returns to parliament?? Where is this money? I guess he just gets to keep it huh? Like Collar did, only worse, at least Collar was forced to resign.

Tell me Carlota, what kind of system do you call that where someone is known to have stolen hundreds of millions of dollars from the gov't., public monies, spends 40 days in jail, then returns to parliament?? Where is this money? I guess he just gets to keep it huh? Like Collar did, only worse, at least Collar was forced to resign.

I am not sure if you will agree with what I am about to write to somehow explain why phenomenon such as Maluf, Lula, Antonio Palloci and others happen.The quality of the education system is faulty. You can conclude that because of the lack of quality education a great number of Brazilians do not develop an appropriate level of critical thinking. Brazil has around 26% of its population that can ($) read quality reading. That coveres the medium class and elite.Functional illiteracy rate in Brazil is high, illiteracy itself achieves 13% of the population. Add to it that more than 80% of Brazilian population is not satisfied with democracy, 37% support democracy and almost 60% do not know what democracy means. I've read that a study points that in the whole Latin America, Brazil has the highest numbers of people disliking the features of democracy. Then what you have is 71% of the Brazilians who approved Lula's first mandate at the end of 2006. What many Brazilians think is that politicians are all the same, nothing will ever change in Brazil, we cannot do anything, the corrupt politicians will never get incarcerated, and the only thing to do is to elect the least worst, or elect the ones who are defamed but nothing is proved against them! Can this be considered a modern democratic belief?

What I have heard is that the people at the top are okay with the popular vote electing the president, but the real movers and shakers are about 20,000 families with money that supply the investment capital to keep rolling over the debt and keep inflation at bay. Don´t know if it´s true but sounds reasonable. In other words, the presumed leaders are not the real ones.

What I have heard is that the people at the top are okay with the popular vote electing the president, but the real movers and shakers are about 20,000 families with money that supply the investment capital to keep rolling over the debt and keep inflation at bay. Don´t know if it´s true but sounds reasonable. In other words, the presumed leaders are not the real ones.

Like it was said in studies. Democracy does not mean much to many Brazilians. Education, anyone?

don't make much money, even in 1st world countries. But how would you like to be a "substitute" politician for a month? 21 "substitute" politicians, people chosen to temporarily take the place of those that have yet to be chosen by governors of states for various positions, will hold these positions from today, or sometime this week, until the end of the month. Their salary and benefits??? Up to 43,600 reais!!! Or $20,000 dollars!!


Just makes you shake your head doesn't it?

Substitute (suplente) politcians, unelected in the senate, is just one item of madness in the BR constitution that needs to be removed.
Another item is local democratic accountability- senators , deputies and councillors. The writer of this post, who probably, like me, doesn´t vote but maybe has more influence could spend more print time promoting the need for political party reform which promotes responsibility in public office.

I dont really think that Lula is or will ever be good for Brazil, because when he feeds the poorhe leave the farmers and ranchers without money to continue the economy going and soon Brazil in not gooing to have where to get money to invest or pay for the food....

References to "savage capitalism" are not applicable to Brazil. It is more like "savage taxation" Brazilians pay taxes to a government who does nothing for the majority and EVERYTHING for those in power. If you try to own a pusiness in Brazil you will find that if you obey the law you will pay more in payroll taxes than you pay your employees.

Even if you live from crime, everything you buy has 50% taxes built in. If you have a job in the formal sector you pay 50% tax on everything you buy, your employer pays the government more than he pays you in taxes, there are deductions from your pay which either are or amount to taxes, then you have to pay up to 30% income tax.

I almost forgot to mention the taxes you have to pay to conduct business

If you try to get a loan to capitalize your capitalist business you will pay interest rates that together with all the taxes make "capitalist profit" next to impossible. I would argue that Brazil is not a capitalist country at all. It is a "taxist" country in which capital formation is virtually impossible except for those who hold power and profits of both workers and employers are taxed to the point where barely enough remains to survive.

The author seems to want an general uprising about corruptions, pricing, and poor leadership. Though protesting is but 1 tool for the Brazilian citizens. It should be a tool last resort. Some good examples of some poor government officials exploitation were provide in the article. Yet, since I am not aware what the Congresspersons salary currently is, I can not protest them wanting to give themselves an increase. The pension referenced in the article, for a retiring congressman, is unacceptable. Can't believe that it even maded to the congressional committee, vote, or even thought. The Brazilian populace are playing their cards right. What they really maybe missing is there "Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton" leading figure to speak on their behalf. Brazil has wonderful citizens.
acommon(person who prays for Brazil)
Bobby / Rob J> Chicago