Brazzil

Great article! I completely agree!

... and I completely disagree!

Brazil are a fearful nation. We are afraid of competition and that's why we have so much protection to our "industry". We're afraid of being explored and that's why we have so many workers "rights". We are afraid of not having money to pay for education and that's why we throw our schools to the hands of state. We are afraid of so many things that we throw our hopes and fears in the hands of the state, in the hands of politicians (including the hands of the author, a statesperson himself).
What brazilians have done, fearing to be excluded, was to grow an ominous superpowerful state. We let our education, our healthcare, our security and even our businesses to be in the hands of the statespersons. And now we have all those problems that we have now. The state does nothing for us, we don't know what to do about it, and we keep being threatened by other "citizens" as well.
And then come the politicians saying the problem is not their fault (the author means that all the time, even being very influential). Not only that, they wants us to be even more fearful in order to give them yet more power, just to continue fighting the wrong enemies who keep us alive. When will brazilians be convinced that politicians (like the author) are our true enemies and only make our life worse?

Edega
http://liberdadenet.blogspot.com

Fearless, oh please!

Brazilians are very fearful. The reason why there is no process in this country is because of fear.
The public schools in the rich bairro are under funded, overcrowded and low quality. The schools in the richer bairros are the opposite ( when in comparison to the schools in the poor bairros). This is because funding is based on income. People with higher incomes pay more taxes therefore they receive more funding. To some people this may seem fair. Ok, keep in mind that 3 out of 5 Brazilians live in these poor bairros. This is the majority. What happens when you have a society of uneducated people? …..hum…
A logical politician would spread out the education funding, create a standardised educational curriculum and to alleviate the overcrowding bus students from other bairros to schools that are less crowded. Oh, but wait a minute! I do not want a poor potential drug dealer, robber, murder, etc… studying with me or my children. I mean all poor people are criminals, right?

Besides, it’s very difficult to get a good paying job in this country if your daddy is not a CEO. I do not what competition. ….. I could go on and on but you get the point….

Knowing that Brazil has put in place certain protective barriers for its industries against forgein empires and competitors, I would agree with you Brazil is not "fearless." But I would suggest no nation on earth is "fearless."

In some ways Brazil is smart to attempt to protect its industries from absolute forgien take over. For if that happened all of Brazilian future and economic prosperity would be in the hands of forgieners. Anyways every nation on earth attempts to put in place its own protective barriers. Hell NAFTA was desgined to favor - thus protect and advance - the United States, Canada, and European investors.

Also keep in mind in the United States the secondary public education system is run by local tax dollars. Hence communities with lower tax bases in effect have poorer quality schools than wealthier communities. Local tax dollars funding public education is not unique to Brazil.

"Also keep in mind in the United States the secondary public education system is run by local tax dollars. Hence communities with lower tax bases in effect have poorer quality schools than wealthier communities. Local tax dollars funding public education is not unique to Brazil."

I guess you were assuming that I was using the US as an Example.

There are many other countries in the world other than the US. I feel America and Brazil are simular with thier capitalist approach to social issues.

Let look at countries like Canada, Switzerland, UK, Norway and Japan. These countries have a standerised education system, that issue that whether you are poor or rich that you receive the same quality of education. These countries have an educated population. Low umemployment rate (the US has a low unemployment rate but a majority of the people are underemployed.) low crime rate and in general were rated the best places to live. The US should not be used as a model by any country when it comes to education or health care. the key issue here, is that it is evident that this practice does not work. However, the politicians and we the people are unable to move. There is nothing wrong with Brazil having protectives barriers when it come to industry. A great example of what happens when you allow foreign industry to over saturate you market is Canada. Canada has lost it's identity. Canadian now are trying to regain this by offering grants for Canadians to open up businesses. Is this a bad thing, not on a financial stand point. Foreign industry has created millions of jobs in Canada. the only down fall is the lost of Canadian identity.

I would forgo my Brazilian identity for a better quality of life. To be able to walk down the street wearing my $150.00 dollar earring, so that my children would receive a better education, to alleviate poverty.

Sure another point we need to look at is, can Brazil really loss it's identity ( Business identity) to foreign markets?

With language bairriers and strong cultural influence, I do not believe so.
NAFTA is a joke. We should not even mention NAFTA. Now the Europen Union is a stronger Union. I do not think any UK business have suffered as a result of the EC. If anything it hads made Eurpoe a stronger power house.

The word is not "fearless" it close minded.

'The word is not "fearless" it close minded'

Fair enough. I understand you better now. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

it is too simple to assume that if you open your countries industry to foreign competition you will improve living standards. In fact Latin America has been following this exact reforms since the 1980s with very bad results. In fact, a most countries around the world developed with the state contributing to internal economic development. Look at South Korea, Japan, Germany, France and UK to an extent. The difference is that the other states improved their respective economies by stimulating internal domestic investment by having high savings rates, small deficits, low interest rates, mild (but controlled) inflation, and eventually the government open strategic markets to foreign competition but they did this by liberalizing slowly unlike most Latin American countries throughout the 1990s.
Also, there are structural barriers to further development. If Brazil thinks that economic growth will resolve its economic problems it only needs to look at Peru. Its economy has been growing at rates avg. 5% yet the president is very unpopular, and people do not feel the benefit of such growth although poverty over the last 5 years has fallen by only 3%! They are in a strong fiscal situation than Brazil but Brazil does need to protect some of industry, especially those labor intensive industries which is the place to mass produce jobs and slowly if the government can invest heavily in basic education through FUNDEB the productivity will grow and so will economic growth!

I have been listening to the kind of rethoric from the above poster for at least 20 years now... and that's what Brazil has been doing since at least the military government.
Besides, when Collor opened the economy, and that lasted until the end of first Fernando Henrique Cardoso's mandate, we had the best results. The industry got modern, many of our companies became international and we had a huge boost on competitivity. Then came the dollar overvaluation of our currency and they started to close the economy again.
The result is that most of our cars date back to that period and, of course, are getting very old. We reached an internal market of more than 2 million per year in 1997 and now the market barely reaches 1 million, not to mention that cars were bigger and better by that time.
This is all protective rethorics that doesn't work in the real world. What really matters for people is freedom. They must have a free environment where they choose where they will spend their money, and the state just protects their properties. They must only have good commercial contacts and do what they are best into. People get adapted more quickly than many interventionist economists admit. See eastern europeans economies, where there was no market prior to dismantling of communism.
All of the measures should be taken at once, otherwise you'll have unbalance and will benefit a group at the cost of another. It doesn't work if you liberalize worker's contracts and do not make it easier for companies to come into the market; it doens't work if you liberalize imports and keep high interest rates (reduced freedom) for internal companies; it doesn't work fully if you liberalize the internal market while prohibiting the imports.

As for some posts above, about the fears, yes, I agree, every people in the world are fearful in some degree. And keep in mind that politicians will always try to increase those fears while trying to get more power out of them. The more fearful the people are, the more likely they will believe, vote and give power to the politicians who say they will protect them. There are slight differences among people in the world today, but americans tend to be the fearless ones,while brazilians are among the most fearful. In the middle, we can find europeans, imho.

"And keep in mind that politicians will always try to increase those fears while trying to get more power out of them."


I agree with that statement, and that is exactly what the U.S. gov't. has done since 9-11, play on the fears of terrorism so americans will willfully give up their constitional rights, as has been done via the patriot act.

That's what politicians always do. And I see this as a threat to the United States, for what made the United States win the Cold War, and what made you so powerful and rich is the freedom and internal organization that you have there. Lose that, and you are doomed.

"I agree with that statement, and that is exactly what the U.S. gov't. has done since 9-11, play on the fears of terrorism so americans will willfully give up their constitional rights, as has been done via the patriot act."

YAWN. Who f**king cares!

Us Brasilians should fear and be ashamed of the implicit political corruption in our country. Everything else...it will woek itself out!

Beyond that, just to "fear fear itself" (FDR).

keol

Fist I would like to applause Doctor Cristovam Buarque's deviousness for passing the whole "fearless" maieutic as Doctor Alain Tourraine's own opnion or merely complementary to it. The europeans fear what we should all fear, yet we intend walk up to the abyss's ledge, and perhaps see if it stares back at us, who knows. If the system proves itself unviable to the europeans, what chances are there for Brazil or the United States, with a overly undereducated population, and huge democratic states up for pulls and grabs where nothing is ever done?


Interesting, my mistake, Doctor Alain Tourraine doesn have an opnion, it's merely a european social phenomenon, as "fearless" would be Brazil's. If we're fearless or not fearing, it would just mean we're not sophicated enough to have a nation neurosis or at least not one affecting the majority of the population. As Goethe puts it, "man of science care not for things of man", the french doctor loves the phenomenon, looking at it inside a disecting jar, much like denying global warming, you either do it, or you don't. Well, I really believe Brazil needed that communist regime when the time came, if not for anything else just for lifting us from this orgiastic feudal mode we find ourselves in. Of course you may argue that's the whole charm of the retched place, who knows. Maybe Doctor Buarque should write an American dream manifesto or at least select such book for mass printing and distribution, the American Ideal cannot be attained without a solid foundation of the American Dream.

P.S.
I'm a man of science myself.

why would those in power in brazil want the american dream?? They've already found it so rewarding keeping the masses ignorant and blatently stealing public monies with impunity why would they ever want to actually work for a living and be held accountable for their crimes?

> P.S.
> I'm a man of science myself.

Perhaps that's why I had to read your text 4 times and didn't get to figure out what you mean. Are you pro or against communism?

Well, if I had only two choices, between communism and the crappy feudal system that Brazil has today (on that we agree), I prefer the latter. At least I can choose what to watch on TV and what to eat in my breakfast.

Do you actually have any experience with a Communist regime or are you as ignorant as I? Why was it necessary to destroy it, why was it a menace? If you consider 19th century Russian literature and most of what you hear about pre-mao china, do you seriously believe those countries would have been better off with capitalism? What are your opnions on the "european fear"? Well, as for being or not a commie, who knows nowadays, the amount of energy required to shake Brazil's neofeudalism can't be attain by ordinary means.

Have you ever talked to someone who experienced communism? I have had businesses with people in Eastern Europe and in the United States. I had contact with czechs, cubans and polish people.You should just sit up and hear their stories about communism/socialism and stop saying bulls**t. If you don't know any of them, the Internet is out there, it's easy to talk to them, just a matter of searching an appropriate chat room on IRC or somewhere else. Communism is like the Holocaust, you don't need to have ever lived it to know the absurd that was. Again, just sit up and hear their stories. There are plenty of them, just visit websites like therealcuba.com.

And not only that, didn't you notice that communism has not worked anywhere in the world, led most of the countries that adopted it to civil war and that the countries who still insist in that bulls**t are among the poorer in the world?

And why don't you start practicing communism yourself? Why don't you donate your money to the poor and give food and housing for them inside your house? I've never seen any communist doing that, just what they do is to use other people's resources for doing that via government. Their money is their money.

The brazilians already have few choices and too little freedom and to solve their problems you want them to be slaves? C'mon!

The problem with politicians is that they always want us to fear something, even when there is nothing to fear. And then, when we face a real threat, like the Islam terrorism, they exaggerate and want us to take inaproppriate measures. All they want is power, nothing else. As long as people are fearful and giving them power for any reason, everything can be falling around them and it'll be all ok.

You haven't answered any of my questions. Think how our plight will seem pointless, and irracional when our decents start consuming 1/5 or less of what we consume nowadays with an unsufferable weather, perhaps a few radioactive spots here and there, tribal wars, who knows, all in the name of the orgiastic future? But hey, there's always corporate conscience and the chance global warming is merely a greenie conspiracy, and we will find new fossil deposits, and new copper mines, or convert all extra coil into hydrogen, etc, etc, etc... Maybe I'm lacking perspective, which population has a better present and which population has a better future, the Mexicans or the Cubans? Let's ignore Mexico's geografic capistalistic "advantage" for a second.

"which population has a better present and which population has a better future, the Mexicans or the Cubans?"

Cubans have a better present. Mexicans have a better but extremely cloudy and uncertain future.

Of course cubans have a better present. They do not need to fear anything, for they've lost everything. They can't go any further down the ladder and their future is great when facing the poor present.

For those commies around here, being deep in s**t is a good situation!? LOL

The cubans have better education, better health, and less social inequality, which is what people say Brazil needs. If instead of a 20 years of military dictorship, we had 20 years of communist regime, Brazil would be in better shape, it isn't like we have much else to show for. I'm really sorry for being a epicurian commie and for trying to smear your over joly stoic capitalistic mode of living, and I'm sure you would care even while being part of such marvelous economic system. But wait, then there wouldn't be anything to care, would it, and within 10 years Brazil's youth would have higher education, and and, ok, scratch that, 20 year, no, 40 years, let's be realistic, 80, ok then, 160 years, suposing it doesn't collapse of course. Bleh, I would tell you to get a clue, but then, communism is heavily intertwined with the intelectual elite, so I'll just tell you to go, and be happy, your time is now, get a shrink, buy some prozac, get yourself a hooker, viagra and a corvette, everything under the sky is for sale, after all, you never know when the commie might return.

hey hey hey... first of all, let's keep things well explained. Brazil, instead of what is used to be said here, is not a capitalist country. That's the first thing you have to understand. The neofeudal system is a good description, but I would say it's more like a colbertism or state capitalism as you prefer. A place where commercial disputes are decided in the courts can be anything but capitalist.

And again, about the cuban system, why don't you simply buy an airplane ticket and go there to see with your own eyes the great heavens that Fidel Castro has created for his citizens? If you're lucky, you'll get to talk to someone and they will tell you what they think. On one thing at least we agree: they don't have as much inequality as in Brazil and US. They are all miserable, their refrigerators are empty and their houses are in ruins. They are much poorer than the poor americans and they are even poorer than the poor brazilians. Why don't you move to Cuba? I'm sure they will accept you, one more slave is always welcome. In addition, their education is far outdated and doesn't serve the purposes of the modern world and their excellent healthcare system is only for foreigners. And even so, if the healthcare system is so good, why did Castro go to France to get his treatment when he slipped and fell against some chairs? That was just a fall and some few broken bones, nothing really complicate for an astounding healthcare system.

And well, I really prefer to drive the Corvette. I let the Ladas, the Trabants, and the old 50ies cars for the likes of you. This is a wonderful world, if you want crap you can choose crap. Be happy.

If things are good and the future sounds viable and promising, what do you care about articles like this one?
I'm sure you know there's no profit in education, or ending poverty, or reducing polution, if the priority are right, well, it is as it should be, don't you think?

... just correcting a mistyped information: I confused the treatment of Fidel Castro with the one of Arafat. Checking internet websites, it looks like Fidel Castro was really treated in Cuba. Anyway, the rest is the way as I put it. The excellent healthcare system of Cuba is just for foreigners, not for the local cubans.

Yes we are a wealthy country.
We have no oil, no car manufacturer, no agricultural exports but we import few, no land(small country with lots of mountains), no soft commodities, no iron ore, no corruption, no copper.
I learned recently that in Geneva, less than 50 % of the population has a Swiss passport.
So why are we wealthy and you poor ? Should it not be the opposite ? This is a simple demonstration that agriculture, basic metals, even oil has yet never ever made a country wealthy.
Japan is similar to Switzerland but they have large car manufacturers, contrary to us.
This demonstrates that what you produce is of low return on investments. Agriculture one of your largest exports
is loosing money despite your low cost land, labor etc etc.
But without long term investments you will remain non competitive because no investments is made in infrastructure, roads, highways.
Despite being an emerging country, Brazil had the worst of all economic growth. Despite being an oil producer and ethanol producer, by now self sufficient, your gasoline price is around 20 % cheaper than in my country, but our average income is several times yours, making your gasoline price quite high in comparison of your average income.
Your education system, as mentionned is awful, and almost inexistent, also due to the lack of commitment of your governments.
10 % of Brazilian workers pay income taxes. In my country 70 % of the population is paying income taxes.
Dont say because we are rich, because we were not rich for the reasons explained at the start of my comments.
We became rich, that is quite different. anmd we did so through education, basic,medium and high. Everyone can go to the university if he is capable.
Anyone can look by themselves, my country with a population of 7 million is exporting MORE than Brazil with a population of 190 millions. But we export only high value added goods. We have no textile industry but we manufacture the best
textile machinery in the world.And every country, Brazil included import these machinery for their own low cost labor. Strange ! Isnt it?
But if you enjoy producing cheap things with low value that is YOUR economic model and decision. Just imagine the quantity of Soya, cotton or iron ore, orange juice, you must produce to be able to buy only 1 of our ttextile machinery. this machinery doesnt provide so many job for you, as it is done to reduce the number of jobs...by definition.Worse by having this machinery, this allows your employers to have less employees but with a lower income.
This is just one example within many.

In my view you always had and still have a bad economic model.
South Korea was poorer than Brazil 40 years ago. Now they are booming with their technology exports. But to produce technology one must have educated workers. It happens that 80 % of South Korean students go to university and only 10 % of Brazilians.And Brazil stayed in their basci industries of agriculture, wood, grains, iron ore, cotton.-
Look at the cotton industry.
You export cotton bales to China and they can beat you on the textile prices in your own country. Isnt that funny ?
Isnt it not strange that you proclaim yourself of being the world's garden but still have hunger and under noiurrsished people by the millions and millions simply because you prefer to export....at a loss ?
Where is the common sense ? Can anyone explain ? It is like in a farmer family, where the man prefer to care for his mistress rather than feed his wife and children !
And Brazil does just that for the benefit of a few. that is why you have one of the highest wealth inequality in the world. 70 % for the 5 % of your elite, 5 % for the corrupted politicians (their due !!!) and 25 % for the parked population in favelas or Northeast.

So why do you continue to elect the same type of politicians. Why dont you do street demonstrations by the millions and millions in every large city ? Last year the only demonstrations against yopur corruption was 2 or 3 times 10'000 people who demonstrated in Brasilia.
Yes 10'000 in a population of 190 millions.
Why do you expect then that corruption will stop. your politicians know you disagree but that you will do do nothing.
Lula has betrayed all his electors, his promises remained promises, and you will probably re-elect him !
Who can really help you except yourself ?
No one !

The last poster is right . . . Brazil, like America, gets exactly what it deserves by electing a complete f**kING IDIOT as president. The funny thing is you will re-elect that a*****e and he will keep on leaving promises unfulfilled and buying votes from senators, etc.

WAKE UP BRAZIL. Lula is a dead-end!!! You are the greatest hope for South America in my mind. With 190 million people you can move mountains but you're too busy trying to become another America - full of f**king stupid, vacuous consumers rushing from mall to mall with women whose only preoccupation is with the size of their tits and the fullnesss of their bundas. Men who seem to be interested in little more than those same tits and asses and football. You do all seem to get together each night to watch trashy novelas though . . . Just like America!! God bless you!! You bitch and moan and complain constantly but you will re-elect a complete idiot who lied to you on every occasion and accomplished almost nothing in 4 years. You will grow slower than most countries in the world because the rich are stealing from you, keeping you illiterate and ignorant and laughing in your face while doing it. You have the greatest wealth disparity in the world. Time to do something but sadly I doubt you will.

Switzerland also has a population of 7,523,934. That is magnificently smaller than the titan Brazilian population. Also, of signficance I believe, is the beneficial impact Switzerland has had in sheltering the money of global orginized crime. The city of Miami in the US state of Florida, in similar ways, has its banking system - and Miami economy consequently - tied into orginized crime money (cocaine).

The french historian Fernand Braudel in his first volume of his three volume work on capitalism in the 15th and 16th century pointed out that for any nation to be powerful (as in empire terms) it must have a large population of people to draw from and to not only fill its ranks in the military machine but also to drive its engines of economy.

Before you speak condescending of Brazil, lets realize and keep this in proportion, that Switzerland has ceded its physical protection to the mighty arms of the US and to the collective watch of European members of NATO. There is no way in hell the Swiss could patrol the Amazon region, police the Brazilian boarders and the narco-terrorists, nor be a stabalizing presence and factor in Latin America. When Peru had hostages taken, under the Presidential watch of Fujmori (sp?). It was special forces members dispatched as advisors to Peru from the United States and *Brazil.* Not Switzerland. The Swiss today, concerning martial warfare, are best dressed in regal garments at the Vatican gates.

Simple fact is Brazil has far more potential - as the US Central Intelligence Agency knows - to becoming a world power both economically and militarily than does Switzerland.

However that is not to say Brazil can't learn from Switzerland regarding her models of education and efficient government.

I think it relates to having a small population, look at Finland, Sweden, the one mentioned, Canada, even Chile is getting ahead. Now look at Brazil, India, China, Russia, Mexico, Argentina, USA, and even
France and England. While in Switzerland you have mostely deary farms, here in Brazil we have deary, meat, leather, bone, soap(animal fat), each is trying to screw each other. Look at the power struggle between the North and the South states in USA, you really think anything be actually be done? Is there anything other than tax evasion in those states with potential to improve above the others?

difficult to make comparisons with small countries in north europe to large countries, and especially developing ones. No question things can be learned from their models, but applying those models to populations 30-50 times greater and land masses that equate the entire continent where they reside is difficult at least.

Also noteworthy that most of northern european countries spend little to nothing on defense, as the U.S. and U.K. pretty much handle that for them.

The state of California could form it's own country and be the fifth largest economy on the planet. Also many of these smaller, "rich" countries have populations around the size of Houston Texas.

a population of 7 million but exports more than Brazil with a population of 190 millions. Yess we are small...or not so small compared to Brazil
You have land, oil, workers, agriculture, cattles, iron ore, car manufacturers, aircraft industry, textile industries, just to name a few.
Therefore you are richer than us by all definitions.

And using the STUPID AND PERPETUAL EXCUSE OF YOUR FAILURE, I will just return you the question : Has Brazil a larger population than the USA ?
Then why is Brazil much poorer than the USA ?
You see that your comparison in population is contradictory.
Much worse even for your comparisons : Uruguay, Paraguay and some other S.A. countries, and aslo compared to similar population countries around the world than Switzerland. Then why are they much poorer than Switzerland...based on your stupid analysis ?
Simply because they have the same economic model and society as Brazil.

I am Swiss, born in Switzerland, from Swiss parents, relatively well educated.
I know the name of around 40 Presidents in different countries.
It happens and I xswear it is true, that I dont know the president name of.....Switzerland ! smile but true.
Who cares. He does his job, he doesnt go every day to inaugurate a new school here or there, a new small plant, 500 meters of new highway, make several daily speeches for reporters and then being published in all newspapers, and appearing regularly in a similar way as Lula with his : Coffee with the President.
My President (whatever his name is) has an office and he is effective, not representative trying to prepare the next election campaign for....3 years. My President has no authority on spending governement money.
And contrary to Brazil, a voted budget for roads and highways (as example) will be freed and spent but in Brazil a voted budget doesnt mean money will be freed. Strange isnt it ? I can give several examples if you like.

I am not saying with have the best political and economic model. It remains that it is not the worst...by far.
In the world there are many different political and economic models.
You can pick the best here and there !

But what have you done during the last 100 years ! You constantly have choosen the shortest view possible 1 to 3 years. Curiously just until the next election. And then who cares, the government changes anyway and leaves all the problems he created to the next president !
But here in my country, long term means.....20/30/40/50 years.

You are free to choose your economic and political model.And you harvest what was planted earlier : not much !

"Look at the power struggle between the North and the South states in USA, you really think anything be actually be done?"

Oh praytell what struggle would that be??

it must have a large population of people to draw from and to not only fill its ranks in the military machine but also to drive its engines of economy.

Then why your large population has not accomplished what you said ?

As to banking, why dont you do the same ! Here we can borrow our mortgage at 3, 5 %.
Most probably many Brazilians have accounts here and there. Are they the one you refer as to organized crime and gang ?
Just review your own not so long history on that subject : from 1998 to 2002 100 billions Reais were money laundered illegally outside Brazil ! By all your political and industrial elite. It happens that there was a detailed report done in Brazil by a Brazilian.
It is curious that your léawmakers voted December 18, 2004, to not open an investigation on that subject.
It also happens that in the report, 91 Brazilians politicians were named !
Then hopefully you can guess why they decided not to open the Pandora box ?
If you dont trust me, just go back in this site, regular pages news, from June to December 2004, many articles were published.
How do you explain that your then finance minister and central bank saw nothingor said nothing. They see that much money flowing, when they can find out what a poor guy received 30'000 Reais recently !

They can trace 30'000 but not 100 billions ? Strange isnt ?

And finally dont you believe that billions of $ are money laundered in Brazil by Colombians Drug lords or mafias or organized crime ?
Is it better to get 1 % on your cash or 15 % and more at times ?????

For the person who posted :

Besides, when Collor opened the economy, and that lasted until the end of first Fernando Henrique Cardoso's mandate, we had the best results. The industry got modern, many of our companies became international and we had a huge boost on competitivity. Then came the dollar overvaluation of our currency and they started to close the economy again.
The result is that most of our cars date back to that period and, of course, are getting very old. We reached an internal market of more than 2 million per year in 1997 and now the market barely reaches 1 million, not to mention that cars were bigger and better by that time.
This is all protective rethorics that doesn't work in the real world. What really matters for people is freedom. They must have a free environment where they choose where they will spend their money, and the state just protects their properties. They must only have good commercial contacts and do what they are best into. People get adapted more quickly than many interventionist economists admit. See eastern europeans economies, where there was no market prior to dismantling of communism.
All of the measures should be taken at once


I think you have it all wrong. Collor did open the economy but Cardoso did more to liberalize Brazil than Collor ever did. Tariffs were slashed severely, they liberalized the capital accounts, and implemented the Real Plan. The initial surge in imports was due to higher real wages but this economic program was artifical. Look at the data, the foreign and internal debt exploded to record levels mostly because of the higher interest rates and flowed into Brazil and due to the inability of the country to export but the blame has to be due to the currency regulation scheme placing the real at about the level with the dollar. Your ascertion that the economy in 1995 became closed is just wrong, if anything the economy was the most open it had ever been! Look at imports!
This is insane for any economy. You talk about Brazil being interventionist economy? You have to prove what you are talking about. In what area did they interve? Yes, Brazil had large industry that were developed but to blame the government for creating is wrong. Most of the economies in the world at that time were using such methods to develop, some worked and some failed. Secondly, if you compare Brazil's protectism era compared to the 1990s "opening" period you see that you policies have failed. Look at worldwide growth rates, they were faster in 1960 to 1980s, look at per capita income! Yeah, you belive Brazil needs more individual choice and property rights and I cant disagree more but who will create such a system? The private sector will? The government does need to defend property right but the government will break patents just like they from 1860s until 1970s. Historically speaking Britain tried to block technology from transfering by demanding people obey their property rights. Countries steal such things to advance their economies, look at the Chinese!
And if you want to argue that the Asia in the 1990s is an example of benefits from free trade and open economic policies you must have things seriously mistaken.
China has never listened to the IMF! They block capital from entering their economies. They lower interest rates when they want to. They control their currency and have a positive economic policy that first liberalized their trade regime and only recently have they been slowly opening their economy.
Look at India, with their excessive bureucracy, once high budget deficits near 8% now 4%! Chile used capital controls in the 1990s and then removed them recently after signing a free trade agreement with the USA. Malaysia also used capital controls during the Asian crisis and they suffered less than all other countries.
Grab a book, and look at how Japan, South Korea, Germany, Mexico and Brazil all developed their economies! They all had government policies that promoted development (obviously some were better than others) and then each went off on their own path.
Look at what really created Brazil's enormous debt? Its not the Previdencia Social, although it was a contributing factor! It was mainly the high interest rates to maintain an artificial currency that contributed nothing to developing domestic industry or making them stronger! Look at the rise in taxes that killed the domestic industry and chocked off consumption!
You must think Brazil is a state managed economy but the results today is of a state who lacked a plan and a vision to develop the economy which is a lot different than the notion you used, "modernize" the economy! Mondernization has not improved the economy, Brazil needs a new model to develop its economy and compete internationallly!

I'm that "stupid writer." You make a mistake however, I'm a gringo born, raised, and residing in the United States of America. I am not Brazilian nor living there.

And yes the United States, as every major world empire or "superpower" in world history, has had a relatively large pool of people to draw from (relative to the average population sizes of its day and age and region).

You stated: "And using the STUPID AND PERPETUAL EXCUSE OF YOUR FAILURE, I will just return you the question : Has Brazil a larger population than the USA ?
Then why is Brazil much poorer than the USA ?
You see that your comparison in population is contradictory.
Much worse even for your comparisons : Uruguay, Paraguay and some other S.A. countries, and aslo compared to similar population countries around the world than Switzerland. Then why are they much poorer than Switzerland...based on your stupid analysis ?
Simply because they have the same economic model and society as Brazil."

Though you compare Brazil to the US - in reference to Swiss luxury, prosperity, and low crime - I can tell you for a fact it is not uncommon to have news shows in the US reporting on Switzerlands superior quality of life for its poor and middle class compared to that of the United States citizen in that same socio-economic branch. I mean your actual prisons are luxury resorts compared to *county jails* in any metropolitan US city, and that's just county jails. The actual US prison system is much more violent and authoritarian ruled (e.g. frequent anal cavity searches). Of course US prisons are luxury resorts compared to Brazilian prisons... but the point is you mentioned the United States (by point of of her quality of life and that of the Swiss against that of the Brazilian).

I have an uncle in back in prison again right now. A martial artist, and extremely violent man, weighing in at close to 300 pounds of muscle. His chest is so big it looks like a shelf. He's been stabed in the face by a Latino gang member while in prison and in numerous fights there including in one where he beat up a white supremacist who was even taller and physically bigger (in muscle and weight) than him.

Last time he was out he got to slap boxing with me to see where I was at in boxing and my pugilist craft. The scars on his body and the thick, large, keloids going across his chest can be awsome and intimidating. And as he tells it, in his younger days he once spared in the ring against a guy now that has become very well known and respected in the international K-1 events.

I've personally been shot at by Vice Lord gang members. Fought in a bar six Brothers of Struggle gang members with the help of only one friend. Had a few friends and a number of associates murdered. I know people that have murdered or murdered more than once. Quite a number of times I have almost driven into cross fire in gun shoot-outs between people. Hell I use to drive with a loaded 9mm pistol laying in my lap, with a round chambered.

Point is... the United States has a large population, has the largest economy in the world, and we still have more violence and brutality than the small and prosperous Swiss nation has. So why pick on Brazil when the nation does not even have the industry development per capita that either the US or Switzerland has?

Brazil was china in the 1960's and early 70s. Granted China has 5 times as many people as brazil so its overall gdp wil end up much larger but it will be interesting to see if china can maintain its growth without reforming its court system and stopping corruption. Which is actually quite prevelant. Now granted with a billion people it will probably still end up being the worlds largest economy, but how high will its per capita gdp get before hitting a wall?

to the first :
- it remains that 150 years ago the USA were not wealthier than Brazil.
- it remains that no country was rich at one point in time.
- it remains that some countries developed and some lagged. Some lagged until the mid 50's and 70 's and then developed.
- it remains that the US jails as terrible as they are, are still a 5 resort compared to
Brazilian jails, even if the Swiss jails are a 5 stars resort compared to the US jails.
- It remains that the poors in the USA should be compared to the low middle class in Brazil, and that the poors in Switzerland could be compared to the US poors ! Really, dont believe wealth is everywhere in my country
- It remains that Brazil is ranked as one of the most violent country on earth. Far more deaths crime in Brazil than in the USA despite having a smaller population.
- it remains that poor Brazilians dream of residing in the USA, but that no poor US ciitizen is dreaming of residing in Brazil.
- it remains I could continue for hours.

to the second (last reader) :
- you are wrong. We are not talking of overall GDP, you cannot compare the population of Brazil, China or Switzerland.
- we are talking of economic GROWTH IN PERCENT OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. Until 20 years ago, China grew normally. foir the last 10 years they grow at 10 % per year, Brazil at less 3 % or so.
It means that China is reducing their gap with rich nations quite fast, even if they will need several more decades.
But it means that Brazil is not filling the gap with rich nations, and they are even loosing market share compared to the other developing nations as all of them grow faster than Brazil.
By simple maths and simple definition, if one is lagging someone he must grow faster to fill the gap. Correct ?
But that is not the case. You grew below the world growth rate since Lula has been elected, year after year. Every developing country had/has a growth of 5 to 10 % as average for the last 3 years.
Brazil numbers are :
0,5% in 2003, 5 % in 2004, 2.3 % in 2005, and 3.5 expected in 2006 but expectations has already been reduced, and could be reduced...again.
Make now your 4 years average and the number will be around 3.1 % ! Far Far Far below the others developing countries. Curiously it was your booming exports that made most of the growth. But that growth has nothing to do with Lula decisions, it was only due to external demand, not related to Lula...by definition ! But you can also realize that this means that Brazil economic internal growth was almost....NIL !
And No country can have a healthy internal growth while you must borrow at 40 to 150 % per year while your inflation was from 6/7 % to now 4,5 %.
You simply end up paying twice the price of what you buy in credit.
No consuming power at all !
And Brazil cannot perpetually say....yesss but....etc etc.!!!
Because the other developing countries had the same problems you had until 2003 ! Turkey had inflation of several hundreds percent until 2002.
Look at Argentina they went bust and since 2003 have an average of more than 8 % economic growth. Look at Peru, Chile. Just name them. they are simply progressing faster than you.

LULA FAILED MISERABLY LAMENTABLY.
He lied to you from day 1, His promises remained words not facts. He betrayed his electors.

A good definition of him is : he talks to the poors and works for the rich !
And it works because he was born poor too. He is a populist and poors like populism.

Cuba didm ok until Russia stopped buying their sugar at a big premium price than the world market price. After that they collapsed.
What do they manufacture, what do they export, what do they produce. There is hunger there. they have tickets for food. The average earning is 4 or 5 times than in Brazil.
Most cubans are dreaming to flee the country. Never heard of the boat people ???????
If they were not stopped by US customs and patrol boats, you would have 10 times more people going away !
Talk to them....they disagree with your comments ! this is not a democracy. Similar to North Korea !
They are dreaming of residing in every country except their own country ! those who can escape, will escape or have already escaped !

I am the person who posted. Well, you should read my writings carefully, I put it this way: "that lasted until the end of first Fernando Henrique Cardoso's mandate". This is not 1995, but 1998, extended to at least 2000. In this time, the parity between real and dollar, foolish I agree, was abandoned and import taxes began to be raised. And well, you better read our history again. What we didn't lack in Brazil were plans. We have had a number of them. Plano Real itself was a plan. Our government does plans and, as any government in the world, they simply don't work.

And you better to review the countries which you cited. Government controls were for small, very short periods of time, and even so I discuss if they have not worsened things. Politicians always feel tempted to put their hands into things at the minor signal of something going wrong. Germany was rebuilt using Hayek principles, as happened to Western Europe. Japan had success in the automobile industry when they have lowered their imports taxes to 0%, making the americans to put their taxes at this level as well. Yes, some countries had more success and others had less success, and the things that made them be successful was economical freedom. The more free a country, the most success it had. State plannes like to take those as examples, because it remains that almost every country in the world uses state planning someway but freedom is a constant in all successful models.Your talk of state planning has been heard around here for at least Getúlio Vargas' government and that's exactly what Brazil has been doing since then, even in the most open periods like Collor government and the first term of Fernando Henrique Cardoso.

Last but not least, I never cited that private sector will guarantee property rights! That's a function of state. I don't know where you got this idea from. You are the seriously mistaken guy here and you better pay more attention to what you read.

So you mean to say Cuba is in no way better than the caribean s**thole it would be without communism? What would happen to Mexico if by some reason USA had to cut its loses and stopped pumping steroids into their economy? Why does USA try to keep countries from trading with Cuba, I'm sure it's not a question of ethics, unless ethics are dependent on oil. Which will happen first, hell freezing over or USA signing anything like the Kyoto agreement? What do you think of the so discused "european fear"? I'm sure burning whatever to procude energy is great, now try producing energy to purify the air you breath. What do you forsee for the future?

I know you're not as keen on answering question as commie bashing, but just try. Of course I heard of the boat people, but I also heard of Canadians imigrating to USA, so I think I lack a reference point. The only thing I head about Cubans in Brazil were some medical doctors in the north, Belem I think, having problems with the authorities, cashing out on average 5000 reais a month.

You're right, Cuba is a great place and Fidel Castro is a great president. I really don't know why cubans are sneaking from the country in unsafe boats, hiding from cuban authorities, while the canadians cross the borders with the United States in their own cars. Perhaps they are mad.

And also, Fidel Castro is damn good! He created a superb economical system. The only problem is that he's enemy of the United States and he doesn't get to make his island prosper because he's in the hands of his enemy and his enemy does not help him. No matter if he gets oil from Venezuela or has europeans buying his products, the problem is that the United States does not help him. Damn americans! Don't they recognize the immense economical success of a system that depends on other countries' help?

It's funny, Fidel Castro hates americans but he wants to make business with them. How poethic!

Wait and see, as soon as Fidel croaks, which could be any day now, Cuba will shortly after, within 20 years, become an american territory, and it will be the best thing that happened to them since Fidel gained control.

You guys are awesome, but I'm not talking about USA trade partners or USA "help", but how the only South American trade partners with Cuba are probably only Venezuela and Brazil, and it always sounds like "oh yeah, they're really pissing USA off, they even trade with Cuba". I don't give a f**k about Fidel's regime, what I really wanted to talk about was enviromental fears, if greenie laws constrain profits, and your government is run by corporations, well, look out for Coal Suvs. It is impossible to get past the childish crap with Americans, what is there to do other than grab that stupid moral superiory as tight as you cling to your stupid economic superioty? In the year 1900, USA and the capistalist part of europe was fully industrialised, while Russia and China were nothing, a feudal fur exporter with the worst social inequality imaginable and regime based on the Dao, satured with slaves on the verge of collapse. Ignoring that without the Red Army, you would probably be speaking German by now, please tell me the wonders capitalism would have done for those 2 countries, and how easy it was for your superior system and superior breeding to defeat big red. What I want to know from you is, how do you see the future in 50-100 years, so don't start on the Stalin-Mao axis of evil.

This is the gringo again.

Mr Switzerland, my point of contrast between US violence, quality of life of its poor, in contrast to that of Switzerland was only to point out that *even though the US has a much larger economy than Switzerland it still produces more social ills than Switzerland - the same social ills you damn Brazil for.* So my question remains: why pick on Brazil whom has far more economical obstacles to negotiate than the United States, for her quality of life issues?

Anyways, regardless, get a clue. More US citizems are fascinated by the Brazilian, culture, women, and people... than they are by the Swiss. In fact dare I say most the world is more enamored by Brazilian culture than Swiss? Yes both Swiss and Brazil may have there good and bad cultural traits. But the Brazilians good cultural traits are no less worthy than the Swiss good cultural traits. -- I have a ball cap of "Brazil" decked in her national colors that I picked up in a Walmart in a small, rural, predominately white poor town. The forgein national caps they offered - per demand - were: Brazil; England; and Ireland.

Sorry... but no "Switzerland" cap. Maybe you Swiss don't have enough cowboy in you, enough "Soprano," "Godfather," or "New Jack City" in your culture to garner the respect and appreciation of the American gringos? I mean after all there's a reason Snoop Dog choose to shoot one of his film in Brazil and not Switzerland, right?

As for me those apple butt mulattas are just to much to die for, to kill for, to rise a nation up for, goddamit to expatriate for. Regardless of the nations poverty or gun violence.

Hahaha, looks like someone has opened his thumb and walked away from the graveyard here. Can you believe this guy is still defending communism!? Listen s**thead, I am as brazilian as you probably are, so don't come with this imperialistic mumbo jumbo on me. Second, follow the advices you received earlier and go to those good countries you defend before saying bulls**t.

And now, to your answers: Russia changed an agricultural economical basis for an industrial basis. They had a dictatorial government connected to the land owners and they had a much worse dictatorial regime directly belonging to bureaucrats. Russia was more like Cuba today, with few industries, before the Revolution and then had some industries. What would happen if socialism had not happened in Russia? Hard to say, but some 30 million people wouldn't have been killed.
As for China, didn't you notice that they are not playing the communist game anymore? Didn't you notice that they have companies, entepreneurs, malls, shopping centers, consumer market? For China, certainly Mao didn't do any good, for he has caused hunger and did not industrialize the country. That only happened under Deng Xiaoping.
How do I see my future? f**ked up if I stay in Brazil, even more f**ked up if our stupid president gets reelected and much better if I migrate to America, as long as americans keep crappy idiots like you away from their territory.

Oh! I just wanted to adress and point out something from one of your earlier posts I forgot to adress in your response to me about Miami banking.

It was from a book I read a number of years back, authored by a guy that is an expert on global orginized crime. He lectures to such respected law enforcement institutions as Interpol and the FBI.

I his book he looked at orginze crime in Latin America, Africa, Asia, Europe, and North America. He made a point to point that Miami's banking boom occured with the influx of cociane cartles setting up shop in Miami in the 1980's. Hence because of the cartles utilization of Maimi as its number one source of port, and distribution, to the rest of the United States of America, the demand for banking institutions to filter or launder their money through rose mega fold in Maimi. Consequently today *the city of Miami has more banks per capita than any other city in the United States.* Yes Miami has even more banks per capita than New York City the financial heart of the United States.

There may be other "Miami's" in the world. But they are few and rare to that level. Both Miami, Florida's banking system and Switzeland's banking system has made themselves renkowned for handling thug money, protecting it, and hiding it, at an unprecendented level.

Then move to USA my compatriot, for I tasted of that poison and would rather abstain from it.My commie aspirations doesn't spring form being a backwater 3rd worlder but by knowing USA way too much for my own taste, forcing me to pick up a english translation of Marx. But I'm sure I just missed the point and you should be able to reconize it.

"I have an uncle in back in prison again right now. A martial artist, and extremely violent man, weighing in at close to 300 pounds of muscle. His chest is so big it looks like a shelf. He's been stabed in the face by a Latino gang member while in prison and in numerous fights there including in one where he beat up a white supremacist who was even taller and physically bigger (in muscle and weight) than him.

Last time he was out he got to slap boxing with me to see where I was at in boxing and my pugilist craft. The scars on his body and the thick, large, keloids going across his chest can be awsome and intimidating. And as he tells it, in his younger days he once spared in the ring against a guy now that has become very well known and respected in the international K-1 events.

I've personally been shot at by Vice Lord gang members. Fought in a bar six Brothers of Struggle gang members with the help of only one friend. Had a few friends and a number of associates murdered. I know people that have murdered or murdered more than once. Quite a number of times I have almost driven into cross fire in gun shoot-outs between people. Hell I use to drive with a loaded 9mm pistol laying in my lap, with a round chambered. "

ARE YOU KDDING ME? Are we supposed to give you a "50 Niggaz" tattoo now or do you already have one? I wouldn't have minded your interesting Spike Lee tale if you had put a disclaimer ahead of time saying: "I'd like to tell you a little story about my family and myself that is unrelated to the current topic." And just in case you want to argue that you WERE relating to a current point, I'll remind you of what followed after this violent autobiography:

"Point is... the United States has a large population, has the largest economy in the world, and we still have more violence and brutality than the small and prosperous Swiss nation has. So why pick on Brazil when the nation does not even have the industry development per capita that either the US or Switzerland has?"

HUH? How exactly do these two quoted phrases tie together?

> Then move to USA my compatriot, for I tasted of that poison and would rather abstain from it.My commie aspirations
> doesn't spring form being a backwater 3rd worlder but by knowing USA way too much for my own taste, forcing me to >pick up a english translation of Marx. But I'm sure I just missed the point and you should be able to reconize it.

Then you have even more s**t in your head than I thought. You are an american, you can have everything good your wonderful country produces and you want to make it a piece of s**t. Well, move to Cuba or here to Brazil, taste a life in a place where the government has tons of papers stating what you can and what you cannot do (like in Brazil) dickhead.

"There may be other "Miami's" in the world. But they are few and rare to that level. Both Miami, Florida's banking system and Switzeland's banking system has made themselves renkowned for handling thug money, protecting it, and hiding it, at an unprecendented level."


You can correctly state that the influx of drug money in the U.S. did explode shortly after the "cuban crime wave" hit the states in the late 1970's. But if you are going to state that TODAY, bankers and banking institutions in the states are "helping" people hide money, launder money, etc. That is just plain incorrect. Drug dealers, money launderers themselves set up dummy corportations, fronts, to wash, launder, and legitimize otherwise "illegitimate" funds.

You can rest assured of one thing, there is not another goverment on the planet that is pursuing money laundering activities more than the U.S. gov't. since 2001, and not only at home, but abroad!

Yawn...

Being I'm familiar with the US and the custom of white males in the US to mock and be sarcastic regarding Black American urban culture... I'll take from my experience and roll the dice and say you're white. [Yawn again]

There is nothing phenominal or totally out of the normal from what I just described about my uncle or myself. It is in fact a *normal* and *common* reality for millions upon millions of Americans who reside in what's today affectionetly termed as "the hood." The violence and racial clashing I mentioned too, about my uncles time in the joint, is also a *normal* and *common* reality for those incarcerated in the US prison system.

I know, I know, you're going to say "but good and decent people don't carry guns" etc [rolls eyes]. My only response to that is... it's the white cowboyish culture that wants guns, guns, guns, and gun shows. White people outside the hood carry them when they want to. People in the hood carry them when they feel they need to. I didn't create violence or a gun culture. It was here before me. I was born into, then raised into it, and f**ked I responded to it. All in the good old fashion American way. You know... kind of like John f**kin Wayne. Remember him don't you, white guy?

Peace!

" "Point is... the United States has a large population, has the largest economy in the world, and we still have more violence and brutality than the small and prosperous Swiss nation has. So why pick on Brazil when the nation does not even have the industry development per capita that either the US or Switzerland has?"

HUH? How exactly do these two quoted phrases tie together?"

I'm going to drop out this discussion, and it doesn't need me pulling it further and further off original topic matter. But just want to close by adressing this and clarifying my point albeit digression.

I guess what gets me about some of the constant bashing about violence in Brazil, is that I often get the sense its coming from non Brazilians whom have come from out of fairly safe and protected enviroments. Added to this I often sense its coming from people of white skin, which in and of itself wouldn't matter, accept that I'm sensing a culture shock to the point of amazement and self righteousness.

Coming from out of safe and protected enviroments often - from what I have observed in people - gives them a perception of the world from the stand point of "what should be." When you come from out of enviroments where your life can be snatched at any moment, senses of stability and safety are not there, when fact and truth come at you like bam! At the speed of light, you tend to develop a perception and approach to life from the stand point of "what is."

So to me, it seems as some of you white people go to Brazil, are hit with the realization that unlike in the United States (or Switzerland) where one can drive from their protective suburbs into the heavily police protected downtowns of your nearest or local metropolitan and never have to really worry about bieng robbed, shot, stabbed and thus dress in expensive jewlery or fine cloths without worry, that *you can't do that in Rio or Sao Paulo, Brazil* and with ease of conscious - without fear. So sense *your* sense of security and protection is shaken or violated now Brazil has to be a f**ked up place in your eyes because of your "what should be" attitudes.

"What the f**k is," is that for many Americans such as myself, there was never one f**kin day in our neighborhoods where there was *never* the potential of being robbed, killed, paralyized, and if your a woman - raped. So for people like us we just learned to deal and accept it as "what is." Hence wear what you want and accept the possible consequences of it. You don't stop living. If you feel you need to carry a gun then you carry a gun. If you get held up at gun point, and refuse to give up your jewlery, money, shoes, coat, or vehical and you get shot... then you just get shot. It's "what the f**k is" and not "what the f**k should be." The world should be a f**kin paradise but it's not.

So... unlike in the United States, those Brazilian boys will jack your (white) ass time, any place, any where. And it unsettles you and your sense of "fairness." Tough! Welcome to the world many black, Latino, and other "colored" people in the United States have had to live in and with from the cradle to the grave.

wow, what insight and conclusions about the racial makeup and backgrounds of those posting on the internet and only from seeing print on a computer screen. (yawn)

Wow, your uncle's in prison huh? And a tough guy nonetheless.(zzzzzzz)

"What the f**k is," is that for many Americans such as myself, there was never one f**kin day in our neighborhoods where there was *never* the potential of being robbed, killed, paralyized, and if your a woman - raped. So for people like us we just learned to deal and accept it as "what is." Hence wear what you want and accept the possible consequences of it. You don't stop living. If you feel you need to carry a gun then you carry a gun. If you get held up at gun point, and refuse to give up your jewlery, money, shoes, coat, or vehical and you get shot... then you just get shot. It's "what the f**k is" and not "what the f**k should be." The world should be a f**kin paradise but it's not.

So... unlike in the United States, those Brazilian boys will jack your (white) ass time, any place, any where. And it unsettles you and your sense of "fairness." Tough! Welcome to the world many black, Latino, and other "colored" people in the United States have had to live in and with from the cradle to the grave.

Does anyone feel like they just re-lived that scene in "Boyz 'n the Hood" where Furious lectures Tre and Ricky about the dangers of THE HOOD?

Give your uncle my best and wish him good luck in his upcoming "World's Toughest Black Guy Contest".
ZZZZZZZ is exactly right. I don't think anyone here is impressed Mr. T

Amazing how many bad-ass gang bangers are hanging out in Brazzil.com these days isn't it? One would think you "hard ass n****rs" would be out popping a cap in someone's ass or settling some territorial dispute with a Latino gang instead of lecturing us dumb white boys on the finer points of safely negotiating a Brazilian neighborhood. Funny thing though - for all us stupid whites who know nothing, I have never in all my time met an American black man who could say more in Portuguese than obrigado . . . Bad ass mother f**ker knows Brazil's favelas like they were his own hood but can't communicate for s**t with his fellow Brazilian brothers. . .

"There is nothing phenominal or totally out of the normal from what I just described about my uncle or myself. It is in fact a *normal* and *common* reality for millions upon millions of Americans who reside in what's today affectionetly termed as "the hood."

Who the f**k do you think you are? You're lecturing me about "the hood" like some kind of self-righteous martyr of urban American culture?! f**k YOU! You just showed how much you actually know, dumbass. Your making assumptions and creating a stupid little reality for yourself - this all-knowing survivor of "the hood" ("the hood"? you sound like either a white guy or a black guy from the mid-90's who hasn't been to "the hood" in a LONG time).

"I know, I know, you're going to say "but good and decent people don't carry guns" etc [rolls eyes]. "

f**k YOU! You must be the most blithering idiot ever to come to the site. I can't even honor this bulls**t statement with a direct response.

Take your 50 Niggaz tatoo and get the hell off of the site before you dumb it down further.

So... unlike in the United States, those Brazilian boys will jack your (white) ass time, any place, any where. And it unsettles you and your sense of "fairness." Tough! Welcome to the world many black, Latino, and other "colored" people in the United States have had to live in and with from the cradle to the grave.

Blacks never get their "black asses" jacked in Brazil with all that bling around their neck and $150 nikes on their feet? DO you honestly think that blacks in Brazil give a s**t about your shared color? That is funny. I know for a fact they would jack your ass just as fast as my white ass because they know you aren't packing in Brazil and therefore aren't nearly so tough. That is unless you're a 300 pound ex-con who eats entire cows whole and carved the grand canyon with your axe.

Only a moron white gringo would make a stupid (albeit implied racist) comment like that.

Your whole response to my post was an overly emotional diatribe of what in the academic world would be refered to as *persuasive argument.* Be sure it is to be distinguished from that of what is refered to as a *logical argument.*

With the inability to support your position in argument, you make the bulk or total of your post, a descent into the classic "ad hominem" (attack the arguer and not the argument).

You also make the statment: "f**k YOU! You must be the most blithering idiot ever to come to the site."

My response: Hardly. Supporting my position in the trail of my posts, with the appeal to the positions of note worthy people like Fernand Braudel, hardly constitutes overly emotional idiotic responses like yours. I have one semester of college behind me already (this semester I didn't go. But will be back in in this coming fall term) in which I completed it with a 3.917. The lowest grade I accrued was an A-. I earned a 3.917 while keeping training at the boxing gym in the evenings a part of my life. Boxing training and culture which you might refer to as "50 niggaz" style. But evidently one semester of college, and boxing ("50 niggaz" as you might stylize it) has developed in me more bearing than you have. And bro, losing your head and control, will result in a hard way for you in the ring, as well a hard way for you in life. One doesn't win that way.

So see... you white guys can learn something from us mulatto, blacks, and Latinos in the hood from time to time.

Now don't go get to scared of those Brazilian boys, if you ask them nicely they might let you pass.

For gun related murders, the United States ranks #8 in the world out of all the nations that provided data (I'm going to hazard to guess not all nations, such as Brazil, provided data).

According to BBC news dated 1999. It appears Rio de Janerio reported a 30% decrease in her murders rate for that year. Falling from 70 per 100,000 people, to 50 per 100,000 people. Assuming those numbers are correct, that would probably put Gary, Indiana ahead of Rio de Janerio in violent murders. If memory serves me correct Gary, Indiana typically always reports a murder rate of someting like 60 per 100,000 inhabitants.

Washington DC for 2002 reported approximately 45 per 100,000 for murder. Baltimore in the same year reported 38.3 per 100,000 for murder.

Here are my sources:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap
http://ww.safestreetsdc.com/subpages/murdercap.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/323708.stm

None of those links gives Gary, Indianas murder rate. I just live in a Midwestern area that has a lot of Gary people that migrated here. Plus within the relative triangle of states, where whitin I'm located, many people from these states travel back and forth and are familiar with the "happenings" of some of the particular cities within those triangle of states.

Gary, Indiana reports a murder rate of 58 per 100,000 people in the common era year of 2005.

That would be a murder rate higher than the Rio de Janerio of common era 1999, with a tally of 50 per 100,000.

Context, balance, and proportion needs to be kept in mind when being critical of Brazil for her violence (which of course is very high. And for all I know Rio may once again be back up to a murder rate of 70 or higher per 100,000 people).

According to the article Sao Paulo, Brazil reported a murder rate of a little over 36 per 100,000 inhabitants. That's a lower murder rate than Washignton DC; Baltimore; and more especially Gary, Indiana.

Given the Brazilian peoples nack and ability to take what limited resources they have and make phenominal improvements in their lives and murder rates, and consequent quality of life, I think they should be given accolades rather than ridicule.

Story and source: http://www.worldpress.org/Americas/2119.cfm

Quote from article:

"Not that the people of São Paulo live in a safe paradise. After all, the current yearly rate of 36.9 homicides in each group of 100,000 inhabitants is almost four times greater than what would be admissible in any country of the first world. However, the disclosure of the results of important studies performed by Unesco and the Seade Foundation, which produces statistical data for the state of São Paulo, showing the consistent decrease in the number of murders in the state over the last five years, was hardly noticed. Blood and extreme poverty are much more interesting subjects! As a matter of fact, according to the studies there was a 29 percent decrease in the homicide rate from 1999 to 2004.

According to the Seade study, the rate in the city of São Paulo for the same period is even more impressive: a 40.6 percent decrease in the homicides. The most surprising data are relative to Jardim Ângela, which was once considered by the United Nations the most violent neighborhood in the world, with an average of two murders per day in 1999. There, the number of homicides decreased by the unbelievable rate of73.3 percent, and on Friday, June 24, the district celebrated its 64th day without the occurrence of a single death. The residents of Jardim Ângela are not so afraid of going out on the streets anymore, and, little by little, they are recovering their self-esteem."

"ad hominem" (attack the arguer and not the argument)."

WOW thanks for the complimentary lesson on what constitutes an ad-hominem attack. Learned that in your ONE semester of college did ya? Was that from Philosophy 101: Lessons From The Hood or Sociology 105: Gang Banging for Beginners? So why did you skip classes this Spring? Incarcerated eh? Tough break. Hope you get back in with that rap sheet . ..

Listen I don't think you want to come in here boasting of your academic achievements because a 3.9 GPA in your freshman year is nothing to write home about. I personally abhor boasting like that so I won't even begin to compare brainpans with you - I don't want to embarrass you in front of all these readers. I know I am not the only regular poster here who has an advanced degree either. Come back with your academic credentials when you actually have some mmkk?

The fact that you managed to box during school is also a non-starter as a bragging point. The vast majority of my friends participated in some form of sport or held down jobs (up to and sometimes exceeding 30 hours a week) while carrying 15-18 credits. Get over yourself.

You horribly thick-skulled fool - not only did you miss my point completely but you continued to further prove why I "attacked" you in the first place. But before I address that, I should point out first the worse thing about all of your babble about "the hood". You claim to be some kind of "gangsta" or at least claim to have knowledge of American urban life yet you have so far proved that YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW WHAT 50 NIGGAZ MEANS, DO YOU?! LOL! YOU f**kIN' POSER!! I CALLED YOU OUT!

"My response: Hardly. Supporting my position in the trail of my posts, with the appeal to the positions of note worthy people like Fernand Braudel, hardly constitutes overly emotional idiotic responses like yours. I have one semester of college behind me already (this semester I didn't go. But will be back in in this coming fall term) in which I completed it with a 3.917. The lowest grade I accrued was an A-. I earned a 3.917 while keeping training at the boxing gym in the evenings a part of my life. Boxing training and culture which you might refer to as "50 niggaz" style. But evidently one semester of college, and boxing ("50 niggaz" as you might stylize it) has developed in me more bearing than you have. And bro, losing your head and control, will result in a hard way for you in the ring, as well a hard way for you in life. One doesn't win that way."

Do you even remember what I addressed in the first place? I guess I'll have to spell it out for you since obviously you were too stupid to comprehend the first time around:
nobody wants to hear about your pathetic life! cut that s**t out - you're embarassing yourself! Really - I'm trying to help you here; there are people who are far more educated and clearly far more street smart than you, so, bottom line: SHUT THE f**k UP! IF YOU EVEN REALLY ARE BLACK YOU'RE CLEARLY WHAT THE BLACKS CALL A "SNOWFLAKE"! LOL!

" "ad hominem" (attack the arguer and not the argument)."

WOW thanks for the complimentary lesson on what constitutes an ad-hominem attack. Learned that in your ONE semester of college did ya? Was that from Philosophy 101: Lessons From The Hood or Sociology 105: Gang Banging for Beginners? So why did you skip classes this Spring? Incarcerated eh? Tough break. Hope you get back in with that rap sheet . ..

Listen I don't think you want to come in here boasting of your academic achievements because a 3.9 GPA in your freshman year is nothing to write home about. I personally abhor boasting like that so I won't even begin to compare brainpans with you - I don't want to embarrass you in front of all these readers. I know I am not the only regular poster here who has an advanced degree either. Come back with your academic credentials when you actually have some mmkk?

The fact that you managed to box during school is also a non-starter as a bragging point. The vast majority of my friends participated in some form of sport or held down jobs (up to and sometimes exceeding 30 hours a week) while carrying 15-18 credits. Get over yourself."


My reply:

Again the ad hominem attack. Whether learned an understood in one semester or not, the principle of the ad hominem remains true. Pointing out someone is a freshmen in their collegiate studies does not diminish the power of their point nor erase your logic error in ad hominem. In fact your appeal to my "ONE semester" in college is itself a logical fallacy, commonly refered to as a *red herring.* That is, the intentional attempt to divert attention from the issue. So instead of admitting to an ad hominem attack, you descend into more of the same, and then add a *red herring.*

As for my 3.917 GDP I'm quite pleased in and proud of it. That is measuring it against what a fairly significant amount of others students in *todays US colleges* do their freshman year of study. For sure I have a long way to go, and for sure it's not the end of the road. But doing well in small steps is a good thing. Likewise Brazil (the nation) should feel good in doing well in small steps.

Anyways if you have advanced degrees then you should at like it. "Set the example" as they say. I mean if one is a journeyman boxer they are expected to conduct themselves in the ring like a journeyman. --- See, whether it be sports, academia, or ones neighborhood experiences, one should take what they have learned and utilize in what we might term "critical thought." If you can't learn to form the ability to utilize your aquired knowledge that way... then all the advanced degrees in the world just become paper mounted up on the wall.

Lesson #2 for ya.

Learn to follow an argument without inserting things it the arguer did not place his or her argument.

You said: "You horribly thick-skulled fool - not only did you miss my point completely but you continued to further prove why I "attacked" you in the first place. But before I address that, I should point out first the worse thing about all of your babble about "the hood". You claim to be some kind of "gangsta" or at least claim to have knowledge of American urban life yet you have so far proved that YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW WHAT 50 NIGGAZ MEANS, DO YOU?! LOL! YOU f**kIN' POSER!! I CALLED YOU OUT!"


My reply:

The first thing should be understood I never claimed to be a gangster or a "gangsta" (in urban lingo as you use it). You're claiming I made a claim I didn't make. I stated I fought some Brothers of Struggle gang members before in a bar. I claimed I use to drive around with a loaded 9mm in my lap. But neither of those things are necessarily uncommon or unnormal for people from and living in "the hood." It's simply what one might call "a way of life." A gangster or "gangsta" (to use your word) from my point of view coming from the hood, steals (more than likely through armed robbery) or sells drugs, or both but more especially *steals* for a living. I never claimed to car jack or hold stores up in armed robbery.

My basic claim can be summed up as: knowing what the average life is like of those Americans living in the hood. That in essence was what my personal experience I was explaining to *Switzerland* was. Prison and her culture is for a lot of young and older black American males part of their life experience in one form of another. Be it they themselves have been to the joint or someone in their family or one or more of their friends have. Now that's not the experience of every single black American, but for a huge percentage it is and especially if they hail from the hood it most certainly is.

One can not accurately understand current black American urban culture without understanding the contexual connection it has to prison life - if for no other reason than for the impact high incarceration has had on that urban culture of black Americans. That was one of the large reasons for me speaking of my uncle. For I already comprehend off the bat, that if one is to compare US crime and murder rates against that of the crime and murder rates of urban Brazil, one has to contexualize that many if not all the people of the "favelas" have like black urban America... been impacted by a culture of *prison.*

As for your comment about "50 niggaz." I would first like to point out I never mentioned or claimed in my addresses to *Switzerland* to be or anything about "50 niggaz." Nor did I utilize the urban lingo word "niggaz" to that Swiss national (I do use the word "niggas" sometimes but mainly in joking and with other black or mulatto Americans that understand the urban cultural usage of that word). You injected "50 niggaz" into the discussion per some personal attack on me, in reference that I should get that tattooed on me or something [rolls eyes].

As for your question do I know what "50 niggaz" means? No I do not. Is that suppose to prove something extrordinary or something? I mean for one thing *phrases* differ from one region of the US to another. For instance I'm in the Midwest, and your use of the word "poser" in reference to me "pretending" would not be the correct - or at least prefered choice of word - it would be "false flagging." (which is more often used to denote people claiming to be in a particular gang but are not) But more importantly... if your use of "50 niggaz" comes from popular gangsta rap, then I most definetly would not know its meaning as I hardly ever listen to that type of music... plus I keep pretty much to myself these days.


Pace.

"Again the ad hominem attack. Whether learned an understood in one semester or not, the principle of the ad hominem remains true. Pointing out someone is a freshmen in their collegiate studies does not diminish the power of their point nor erase your logic error in ad hominem. In fact your appeal to my "ONE semester" in college is itself a logical fallacy, commonly refered to as a *red herring.* That is, the intentional attempt to divert attention from the issue. So instead of admitting to an ad hominem attack, you descend into more of the same, and then add a *red herring.* "

Hey homie, a bit of advice: quit trying so hard! You are what most would call a pseudo-intellectual - for the time being at least. It is apparent by the contextually inappropriate usage of some words and phrases that you just need to let go of that pretentious bulls**t and speak from what you know. One semester of college is not going to make you intelligent. 8 or 10 years of college won't make you intelligent either. Intelligence is a gift or don which is bestowed upon people long before they are born.

There is no red herring here pal. You mentioned your scholastic achievements as evidence of your intelligence, not me. You brought it into the discussion and I used it against you. If you can offer up your GPA and ONE semester of university studies as evidence of your intelligence I can just as easily use it to provide evidence to the contrary. Think about it for a minute. You originally claim that your responses are not idiotic because you have ONE WHOLE SEMESTER of college behind you. I claim that doesn't make you an authority on anything. You should not go boasting of your academic credentials if you don't want people to try and burn that house down. Think about that in the future. There was no logical fallacy here and furthermore life is full of ad-hominem attacks even if I didn't engage in one this time out. Next time you are arguing a point with someone in the real world be sure to point out that they are stooping to ad-hominem attacks and see if they give a f**k.

really strange how the "style" of ´language has changed....strange indeed!

quote:


""Not that the people of São Paulo live in a safe paradise. After all, the current yearly rate of 36.9 homicides in each group of 100,000 inhabitants is almost four times greater than what would be admissible in any country of the first world. However, the disclosure of the results of important studies performed by Unesco and the Seade Foundation, which produces statistical data for the state of São Paulo, showing the consistent decrease in the number of murders in the state over the last five years, was hardly noticed. Blood and extreme poverty are much more interesting subjects! As a matter of fact, according to the studies there was a 29 percent decrease in the homicide rate from 1999 to 2004.
"


LOL...if you're going to concentrate on this point, and I can show statistics, brazil in 2004 had 50,000+ deaths attributed to gunshots! That is more per month than the U.S's WAR vs. Afghanistan and Iraq COMBINED!!!

And brazil is a "peaceful" country if you believe brazilians!

"There is no red herring here pal. You mentioned your scholastic achievements as evidence of your intelligence, not me."

I brought my GPA into the discussion in a reply to your accusation I was a "blithering idiot."

So yes it was fair of me to bring my GPA in. Especially when I'm American (US national [and born & raised}) and understand the cultural context implicit in your sarcasim, snide remarks, and accusation of being a "blithering idiot."

Be it Latinos in Latin America (to whom US citizens always means "dark people," most especially mestizos) or blacks, mulattos, et cetera within the United States, all to common for many of you white gringos, permeating your culture, is this idea of superiority, in which many of you consequently try to get other people darker than you to believe they are less intelligent, less worthy, than you and apple pie white Americana.

I mean telling, is one of your statements about me sounding like a dude that "hasn't been in the hood since the mid 90's." Now non Americans (US nationals) might not catch and understand what's implicit in the context of that statement. But for all us US citizens we know (or should know) that the news media in the US has constantly reported how the crime and murder rate has dropped significantly across the United States. Which may be true for most the nation. And that's what your comment was hinting at: that life in the hood is all roses and smiles now . Eh! Wrong! Not for people in Gary, Indiana. A city by the way that is 84% black. Certainly the "great decrease" is not true of a number of other areas of the US too, including my own city. So since you were so totally unaware that Gary, Indiana boasts a murder higher than Sao Paulo, Brazil. Yet so many gringos in this thread (by your tone in your posts I would say you too) seem big eyed astonished by the murder rate in Sao Paulo... tells me you are so totally alienated from the basic life of Black urban America (in the US) that your comprehension of her is next to nill. I mean doesn't it strike one interesting that they never heard, knew existed, Gary, Indiana and her high level of violence; but lives in the United States (or was at least raised there) and knows about Rio de Janeiro??????? I mean I'm in my 30's and I have known about Gary's violence since I was a teenager. Hell Gary was worse in the late 80's and early 90's than what it is know. Back then I believe it always held a murder rate of something along the lines of 60 per 100,000 people. That was not to far from Rio's once 70 per 100,000.

Yet few people in the US even know anything about Gary, Indiana. Unless they come from around Chicago, Milawaukee, and few other places. Other that most people in the US no nothing about the city in the United States that has the *highest percentage of blacks out of any US city.* Critcal thinking would beg the question... is that testimony to segregation permeating between white America and black America? Personally I think Gary, Indiana is unspoken about because it is #1, not "sexy" at all like LA, New York, or Miami (or hell even Rio de Janeiro), and #2, because it is *84% black.* Which begs another question: If US gringos charge Rio de Janeiro segregates its black population into her nortorious *favelas* (and nortorious they are, I do not envy anyone who lives in one of those areas. They also do seem to have mostly darker skinned peoples in them [at least from the pictures I've seen. That's all I can judge by not having been there]), then what response do gringos have for Gary existance segregated from the eyes, ears, and knowledge of most US citizens? That and the fact that Gary (an entire city) arguably for quite a long time has been one large, semi-favela, so to speak?

"quote:


""Not that the people of São Paulo live in a safe paradise. After all, the current yearly rate of 36.9 homicides in each group of 100,000 inhabitants is almost four times greater than what would be admissible in any country of the first world. However, the disclosure of the results of important studies performed by Unesco and the Seade Foundation, which produces statistical data for the state of São Paulo, showing the consistent decrease in the number of murders in the state over the last five years, was hardly noticed. Blood and extreme poverty are much more interesting subjects! As a matter of fact, according to the studies there was a 29 percent decrease in the homicide rate from 1999 to 2004.
"


LOL...if you're going to concentrate on this point, and I can show statistics, brazil in 2004 had 50,000+ deaths attributed to gunshots! That is more per month than the U.S's WAR vs. Afghanistan and Iraq COMBINED!!!

And brazil is a "peaceful" country if you believe brazilians!"


My response:

For all I know all the murders in every US city combined, per years, attributes to a statistical equivalent of more murders per month than the US war in Afganistan and Iraq. But such play with statistics - be it about the US or Brazil - obscures the ground realities of the occupation of Iraq (not to mention with Afganistan mission combined wth it).

Understanding *specifically* the murder rate, thus chances of being killed in a given city, going by the system that is commonly used by the FBI of per capita, is a better way I think of understanding (at least by statistical science) the issue of *murders in any given city.* As opposed to your example of the total number of gun related deaths in Brazil being compared to per month this or that in the US led military mission in Iraq and Afganistan.

Sao Paulo may have a lower murder rate than Gary, Indiana or even Baltimore or DC. So in fact per murder Sao Paulo is safer than a place like Gary, Indiana. Your chances of getting murdered increase leaving Sao Paulo and entering into Gary, Indiana (not that anyone leaves Sao Paulo for Gary lol... not to mention there is a lot more money in Sao Paulo that ugly, post industrial, poor, Gary). *However!* Sao Paulo is still *far more dangerous* than any US city - including Gary - concerning *kidnappings.* Which while it does happen in US cities and towns... is a rarity. Unlike in Brazilian cities and other Latin American cities. Yet Sao Paulo is so huge - it's larger than New York - that even the chance of being kidnapped must be kept in context (meaning per news it might appear more likely to happen to you than what it actually is out of all those millions of people).

So in the end I just don't see why you can't acknowledge Brazil has done good in it's two well known cities by *dramatically* decreasing their murde rate.

The world is not a paradise, all one or a nation can do is try to improve. It seems to me Brazil - at least concerning her murder rate - has been really trying hard to do that. Both the citizens and her police force (albiet harsh maybe - but that's not for me to decide).

brazil last year had 50,000+ murders by gunshot. The U.S., and most other countries in the world, don't come close to that number.

"Which may be true for most the nation. And that's what your comment was hinting at: that life in the hood is all roses and smiles now ."

That's not at all what I was hinting at. Not at all. My point was that few urbanites - inlcuding those in Gary which I am very familiar with and even more so with a nice little village called East St. Louis- don't use the term "hood" to describe where they live anymore.
I'm simply calling you out as a poser. Plain and simple.

"That's not at all what I was hinting at. Not at all. My point was that few urbanites - inlcuding those in Gary which I am very familiar with and even more so with a nice little village called East St. Louis- don't use the term "hood" to describe where they live anymore.

I'm simply calling you out as a poser. Plain and simple."

Ha! Gary, Indian registers a murder rate above Rio, LA, and DC. By the history of Gary, Indiana provided on the internet her steelworker jobs went from 30,000 in 1960 to 6,000 in 1987. That constitutes a massive improvement in a local economy I guess you presume?

So enlighten me pretel, what do people in Gary call their wonderful neighborhoods blooming ever so properous under the $10 trillion US economy? The lush forest of plenty? The spring of hope? That darling little community that has treated me ever so gently with smiles of warmth in the morning?

I still get a kick out of your use of the word "poser" especially when speaking of how Black Americans in the inner cities of the Midwest speak. [chuckel]

So since you know the lingo of the hood in Gary, Chicago, East St Louis, and Milwaukee so well (all Midwestern towns). Then you can tell me what a "violation" is? What a "neutron" is? Who a "hook" refers to?

HAHAHA! This guy's about as bright as a two-watt light bulb! MY GOD!

Here's what you said:

"Ha! Gary, Indian registers a murder rate above Rio, LA, and DC. By the history of Gary, Indiana provided on the internet her steelworker jobs went from 30,000 in 1960 to 6,000 in 1987. That constitutes a massive improvement in a local economy I guess you presume?"

But here's what I said:

"That's not at all what I was hinting at. Not at all. My point was that few urbanites - inlcuding those in Gary which I am very familiar with and even more so with a nice little village called East St. Louis- don't use the term "hood" to describe where they live anymore. "

Where the HELL does it sound remotely like I am saying there is an improvement in Gary or East St. Louis retard?! I was just using them as examples of s**tholes in the US.
Oh my god!! HAAHAHAHAHA!
Dumbest. Guy. Ever.

"HAHAHA! This guy's about as bright as a two-watt light bulb! MY GOD!

Here's what you said:

"Ha! Gary, Indian registers a murder rate above Rio, LA, and DC. By the history of Gary, Indiana provided on the internet her steelworker jobs went from 30,000 in 1960 to 6,000 in 1987. That constitutes a massive improvement in a local economy I guess you presume?"

But here's what I said:

"That's not at all what I was hinting at. Not at all. My point was that few urbanites - inlcuding those in Gary which I am very familiar with and even more so with a nice little village called East St. Louis- don't use the term "hood" to describe where they live anymore. "

Where the HELL does it sound remotely like I am saying there is an improvement in Gary or East St. Louis retard?! I was just using them as examples of s**tholes in the US.
Oh my god!! HAAHAHAHAHA!
Dumbest. Guy. Ever."

Fair enough, you didn't claim any improvement in Gary. So I cede that point to you. I also admit I was drawing an assumption that that's what you implied.

Regardless, my questions still stand: Then you can tell me what a "violation" is? What a "neutron" is? Who a "hook" refers to?

I mean you're a smart guy right? You should be able to answer those few simple questions with relative precision, since anyone familiar with the neighborhoods shaped under GD and VL cultures would know these - at least two of them. They are fairly basic common knowlegde. I mean come on... I could ask a black 12 year old kid in the ghettos of Chicago these questions and they would be able to answer correctly, and they don't have *advanced degrees* like you. And as we all know, most black people in inner cities of Gary, Chicago, and East St. Louis have advanced college degrees and are *shocked* or "taken-a-back" by the mention of someone having an uncle in prison who pumps iron, the same person carrying a gun, and the same person fighting six gang members in a bar along with the help of his friend [rolls eyes]. I mean come on... we all know gang members fight "fair" and don't jump people in groups [rolls eyes]. Better yet we all know there are few guns in the United States, few urban Americans in the inner cities have them, and best of all [eye get big] most black Americans in the inner cities are more concerned Al Qaida is going to attack them then the Vice Lords or GD's. I mean hell! It's common sense that some white dude in Wyoming would *need* to arm himself (with the lobbying help of the National Rifle Association) against the possible threat of Chinese military regulars crossing over the hills into his backyard, more than some young dude in the central cities living around rape, murder, mahim, and Vice Lords and GD's. I mean do the statistics... white dudes in Wyoming got more chance of getting killed by advancing Chinese troops, than young black (including mulattos in there) men in their early 20's and mid 20's have in the hood.

Hey... ain't that word "poser" lingo from California surfboard culture? Dude! Let's catch the waves!

Speaking of Gary and Chicago...

Sciencedaily.com reports:

"Meanwhile, graffiti for such Chicago gangs as the Gangster Disciples, Latin Kings, and Vice Lords is showing up in Iraq on military buildings and vehicles."

For full story: www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed...sgangs.xml

"Here's what you said:

"Ha! Gary, Indian registers a murder rate above Rio, LA, and DC. By the history of Gary, Indiana provided on the internet her steelworker jobs went from 30,000 in 1960 to 6,000 in 1987. That constitutes a massive improvement in a local economy I guess you presume?" "

Charade you are dumbass, that was a different poster.

re: above post:
nevermind

"brazil last year had 50,000+ murders by gunshot. The U.S., and most other countries in the world, don't come close to that number."


My rersponse:

Let us just both agree to disagree on our views whether or not Brazil is a great country with potential to be a lot better.

I'll cede to you Brazil as a country has an incredible homicide rate. And if truth be told there is nothing in the United States pound for pound comparable to the Brazilian favelas and its whole way of life. Minus Sao Paulo and Rio's impressive reduction in murder rates which brings their murder rates closer to or below that of places like Gary, Indiana or Detroit and DC. I readily admit - even as dangerous as some US cities are - at most, places like Gary can only be decsribed as semi-favelas, if that at all. The gang structure in favelas are to orginized, the favelas themselves are to tight nit, hell architecual structure of the favelas in themselves lends to intimidation and uncertainty, plus the children in favelas develop a psychology that's just much more rough and raw than what you find in most US inner cities.

I cede all that.

But Brazil still is a beautiful country with seemingly many charming people who can still put on a smile. They are taking great steps to improve themselves as a nation and people. And lest we forget the United States has a $10 trillion dollar economy but has "thrid world" murder rates several of her cities. Mexico City has a rough murder rate of 18 per 100,000 people. Hell the city of Milwaukee in the US has roughly that same rate or higher. Gary; Detroit; Baltimore; Washington DC; and Chicago all have a murder rate *far above* Mexico City's.

Have the last word.

Pace.

Not in BRazil, not in Europe, not anywhere. Fear is bad.

Here?s an article about Diadema, a city near São Paulo, that has reduced its homicide rate by 47% in five years by enforcing an 11 P.M. closing time for bars.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/10/MNGIOIOQ3M1.DTL&hw=Diadema&sn=001&sc=1000

Switzerland is not the great place you make it out to be.
Who in their right mind would want to live in screwed up Europe?
Who would want to live in all that extreme cold?
When Europe can get their act together, come on back and tell us how wonderful it is.
Brazil and the US are the two major countries of the Americas.
Switzerland would not even exist today if not for the US saving their ass during WWII.
When we need ice cubes, we'll call you....

It seems that those comments are not about the article anymore. This last comment is just a sad guy, probably from Americas, that feels he is inferior compared to europeans. Since I come from Brazil, those guys make me seek. They are unable to admit that much things are better outside because they feel it as an attack, and when you say Switzerland is so good, they feel like you are saying: "f**king brasilian, your country sucks, like you." But it is dificult to blame them because we are almost all that way here in Brasil (and I can hear some brasilian guy saying: "speak for yourself you motherf**ker"). Everybody knows a lot of people want to live in Europe, much more than people who want to live in Brasil: just see how easy it is to get a visa to work in Brasil, compared to getting a visa to work in Switzerland, or France or England for example. The only imigrants that try to get in Brasil are those from country that are even more poor than Brazil, like Peru or Colombia. We all know that many Brasilianwho leave Brasil to Europe or USA decide to come back because they miss their homeland. But we forget that most don't come back. And more importantly, those that want to stay in Brasil are not a proof that Brasil is a good place to live in general. Because they represent a minority of population. And I am saying that not because of their tastes, but because I am sure they are relatively rich compared to the rest of population. I am sure of that because otherwise they would not be able to write in english (or even write correctly in portuguese), or even have easy access to a computer. And the fact is that for those people (and I am not excluding or including myself), life in Brasil has its atractiveness. Because here, when you are part of this minority, you can hire people to work for you: to clean your house, to watch your kids, and whatever you want. Its very comfortable to be part of the elite. So don't expect to read here anything about how it realy feels to live in Brasil when you are not in the 10% richer persons. You won't see those people here. Finaly, regarding the article from the brasilian politician: here in brasil, except for rare exceptions, we all feel, or better, we know, that all brasilian politicians are a*****es sons of bitches. Sorry for those words but even those are week to translate what we feel. Anyway, the article is completely stupid: we live in constant fear. It's a constant paranoia and we do all we can to keep poor people away from us (except those that work in our house), because we fear them always. This can give you an idea of the situation. But the fault is ours: in our pseudo-confortable elite position, its dificult to sacrifice what we have to change things. Because if things change, things will get much worse for us before they get better.

... who know how to give perfect answers to these ignorant morons (like the guy from Switzerland).


It is incredible the way he
forgets all miseries his own country has. The prostitutes are not mentionable, the dull life must be transformed into a victory, the bank managers are
admirable professionals even though they spend every hour of every day of their lives
calculating the profit on international money stolen from millions of poor people .

Switzerland, besides being mounted on filthy money has (just like any other country), all kinds of social problems.
Also, It must be terrible for your ego to be a citizen ot a small , grey, boring, .country.
What can you boast about? Foreign muddy money on your secret bank vaults, of course.
What can you dream about?
African giraffes, bambis, if you´re a delicate type, tanned gracious girls , bikini girls, bossa nova, beautiful beaches, a warm wonderful climate, endless forests, happy smiling people - even if they are poor of money -some national soccer team that makes you happy and unique..
The point is: they can´t afford all these values. In a sense, they are POOR..
Too much organization kills your soul. People in places like Switzerland are slave to the hard social norms they have to follow.
The guy who trespassed the soccer field to hug the Brazilian players will rust in jail for 75 years. Besides, he will have to wash the guards shorts daily.
Too bad. I don´t want to be a citizen from Switzerland or any other small futureless country.

Qualé, minha irmã? Manter os pobres longe? Eu, heim. Foi você que falou dos brincos de cento e cinquenta mil dólares, cruzeiros, sei lá...?
Caramba, não vou poder chegar perto de você.
É pena que você tenha dado esta colher de chá aos babacas para que nos malhem mais ainda.
Você não pensa, não? Você é loura?