Brazzil

You sound like white racists in America. How could you rise through academia to the level of P.H.D. and be so narrow-minded? Anyone outside of Brazil realizes that blacks get less respect than others in your country. Old-line white families control the land and economy, and this situation has resulted in unspeakable crimes against blacks and Indians throughout Brazil's history. Here in America, many whites on the right peddle the falsehood of a race-neutral society when nothing could be further from the truth. Dr. Cristaldo if you are not aware of this reality, please take the time to educate yourself and bone up on history. Also, for your information, the major thrust of black liberation in America had nothing to do with communism. Tchau.

Looks like that Cristaldo is NOT aware of the official stats.....provided by many Brazilian Government Administrations and Agencies !
Looks like too that he never went to the Northeast part of the country....but stay confortably in his priviledged secure community in SP !

Blacks are only 6 % in Brazil !!! What a joke ! Did he count the number of blacks...in his area....ONLY ???

Quite laughable his arguments when even the Health Minister recognizes that racism exist in Brazil. Racism also occurs at the
education or more precisely NO EDUCATION AT ALL....for blacks citizens. Racism too in the jobs availability and salaries !

In Europe, what Cristaldo is saying, could be easily sued and he would definitely go to jail and get a heavy fine !

Janer Cristaldo, you truly have an invalid argument, completely depleted of real and sufficient data to support your claims in this article. Racism, bigotry, and racial prejudice are social elements for which you have not studied to qualify your article's argument and your position is flawed and baseless.

You do not have credible resources to express any real conclusions as to the conditions of Black people in the United States, and your knowledge of Black people in Brasilian is limited as well. There is absolutely no reasonable and logical conclusion to this obviously subjective, skewed and erroneous account of the state of racial affairs in Brazil.

Racism as an institution is racial prejudice and the power to influence the lives of, and inflict harm to, those with whom one race of people, as individuals or as a group,oppose at all levels and within the confines of society. This racial ideology is the influence promulgated by those of European descent - meaning white people - who believe and follow within the ideological guidelines of global white supremacy and racism.

Cristaldo can irresponsibly offer the reader this diatribe as a white supremacist, then tying in a geo-social-political rant without a basis from which to stand, by dragging Black people in America, but not those Black people in Europe, who also suffer from global white supremacy. Cristaldo does not include the Black people living in countries all across South America, who are suffering from racism.

Cristaldo is clear in his intent regarding the character assassination of Zumbi, which he vaguely and cowardly claims, has connections to Cristaldo's homosexual community. Any historian knows that notable or famous white male slave traders and owners, whether in politics or business, in any nation's history have contributed to the millions of accounts -known and unknown - of forced raped against both Black males, females, and including Black children. So much so, that just 126 years after the abolition of slavery in Brasil, these social and racial atrocities still occur, and undoubtedly something Cristaldo has participated in, or contributed to in some way, shape or form.

Racism is strong in Brasil and it is a reflection of a global white contempt and hatred toward a people who desire to be equal and eventually surpass racial oppression and exploitation that hinder and block real progress. This article, like many other "pro-white" and jealous, anti-Black diatribe, seems to be setting a precedent among whites who forsee a dim future for them when the majority of the people of the world (nonwhite) begin to take their rightful place at the dinner table of the world's nations - and not to watch the whites eat - but to dine in comfort as well.

The land of the free unless of course you are…

Black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, Middle Eastern, Jewish, female, gay, lesbian, non-republican, disabled, atheist, old, poor, middle class, undereducated, unattractive, live in certain zip codes, have ethnic sounding surnames, fall into lower tax brackets, of non-christian religion, not unionized, and have opinions contrary to popular attitude.

Nof said!

The land of the free unless of course you are…

Black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, Middle Eastern, Jewish, female, gay, lesbian, non-republican, disabled, atheist, old, poor, middle class, undereducated, unattractive, live in certain zip codes, have ethnic sounding surnames, fall into lower tax brackets, of non-christian religion, not unionized, and have opinions contrary to popular attitude.

Hmmm, not exactly. I am as brazilian as you (I guess you are brazilian) and I receive a much better treatment here than in my home country... actually, I think America is the de facto land of the free for all those groups you mentioned, except perhaps for caucasians... there simply are too many politicians wanting to take rights away from that ethnic group. And they keep getting it...

It's nice to see that there are sane people in this country. This idiocy has gone too far.

I do not accept the premise of the discussions here… The USA versus Brasil. Both countries possess liabilities and assets as well. Opinions are abound while facts are few! However, the USA being the only superpower left on the planet I believe it holds higher responsibilities then any other nation.

Likewise, one must consider the question "Why does the world resent America?" Surely, success may be part of it but does not justify it all. Moreover, Americans can do little to reduce the hostility directed their way with their typical overwhelming “patriotism, self-righteousness and self-glorifying” approach. This can be extremely annoying at times… Almost like a buzzing mosquito when you are trying to sleep.

The resentment against Americans presumably will continue so al long as we face headlines such as: Nagasaki & Hiroshima, Biological Weapons, The Land Mine Treaty, The Arms Trade, Oil, Bush, Kyoto, Short Term Strategies & Long Term Suffering, Heavy Handed Commercial Aggression, Foreign Aid (USA Is Stingiest Of The 22 Most Developed Countries), Support Of Obnoxious Regimes, International Discord And Contempt Of The UN, Blind Support Of Israel While Ignoring Basic Needs Of Palestinians.. And On And On!

That said, until the time when the USA reconsiders many of its inhumane undefendable foreign policies of the past, I don’t see any improvement in the general international mood, do you?

Peace

The only Americans that care if the world resents America are the liberal elite. The average American has no opinion on Brazil. He thinks of Carmen Miranda, Pele and Joe Carioca. In sixth grade we learned about South America. I went to a school not far from Knott´s Berry Farm. Up until then I just had a sense that there were people living somewhere south of San Bernardino County.....

There are few Brazilians in this board. The ones who insult calling us names are the American expats who live in Brasil. That is a disturbing thing, probably it is a pathogical issue they bring all the way to Brasil. Ameicans have responsability in the worlds scenary, but the ones who hang on this site really don't want to be part of anything, that is why I feel terrible about them. These people have such an irresponsible attitude towards everything. All I know is that I hated getting to know them.

Only the liberal elite? And where are you placed? Maybe that is right the average American have little opinion over Brazilians. All they know is the looks diet butt models poverty in Brazil etc

And about brazilian media, should I trust more in NYT or fox? Or in your opinions? How about your American pride? Is it hurt because brazilians consider the american pilots partially or totally responsible for the accident? Where is the intelligence and braveness of Americans? Just fiction really!

I think it is necessary to present some of Janer´s background here. He is know to be an Eurocentric, thinks Europe is the only civilized place on earth but It seems he was kicked out of France for overstaying his visa so he settled in São Paulo. He couldn´t go back to his native Rio Grande do Sul because of his sexual choices. Rio Grande do Sul is a macho place and it seems Cristaldo did not have a pleasent time there the last time he showed up in his leather outfit. It also seems that Cristaldo got a trauma from an oversized black c**k, when he was in a gay sauna in São Paulo. Said that, you might consider his views in a different perspective now.

I truely despise Americans, they are the only ones who show up in this site besides one or two brazilians.f**k you too.

I don't agree with every sentiment of the author's article, however he raises some interesting points. Let me first off say I admire Zumbi from the little I have read of him, and I don't care what his sexual orientation was or his gender rolls in his sexual life. Fact is, few people in this world are perfect we only create the myth that they are. In my opinion it is good to acknowledge the lesser, stranger, or even sexually peculiar of great men of human history - should serve to give us all more inspiration in our own potentials. Comic book characters do not exist in real life.

The real sociological interesting thing is that as the world economy globalizes more and more the United States has interestingly enough correlated its increase in multiracialism, multiculturalism, or what we could even be termed mulattoization. Yet at the same time gringos are militantly encouraging Brazil to narrow it's image before the world in racial scope and assimilate backwards into a socio-racial structure of 19th century United States: Black & White.

There are many nations on earth with black people - I mean by that predominately or highly populated by black peoples. Few highly populated or predominately populated by mulattos. Brazil is one that while not predominately populated by mulattoes certainly is highly populated by them. This is a good thing - unless one believes mulattoes are intrinsically bad.

It's interesting in reading in my book - for my college class - on the history of labor in the United States that the Creole middle class on New Orleans advanced a socio-racial-labor related environment unlike the rest of the United States. Supporting black labor struggles in the late 1800's the Creole's got the white population of that city to support the black labor struggles too. The city had heavy cultural mix of Spanish, French, Anglo, African, and Indian cultural elements. The captains of Industry and the United States Government finally broke New Orleans after World War I and New Orleans would from that time on become fully assimilated into the racial structures of the United States.

The idea that mulattoes have been a "wall" is incorrect in my opinion. I believe mulattoes have often served as "bridges."

Being a stranger (from Europe) in Brazil, I can say that racism exists in Brazil, but it is not as "hard" as the racism found for example in South Africa, Japan, USA or indeed Europe. Racism is "hard" in these places because it denigrates blacks outright (read: it even denies them humanity, and considers them half-monkeys), while in Brazil it's a sort of mild ignoring which borders on sympathy. It´s hard to explain, but I hope you get the idea.

In any case, I agree with the author that celebrating "Black Conscience" day in Brazil is unnecessary. On the other hand, I strongly disagree him comparing racists with "communists" - one really doesn´t have to do anything with the other. I think the author merely uses "communists" as intensifier.

Maybe you guys are married to mulatoes brazilian women to be so nice at this point with Brazil? : D

Disgust Americans sorry

I've met mulatoes in Brazil that seem as deeply biased against blacks as anyone I've encountered. And it's not of a mild ignoring or sympathy type thing either although you might mistake it for such since Brazillians treat each other and everyone else much nicer than most people in the USA do. Can't say I understand it at all. One such person has a parent that is only one generation out of Africa. Kind of shattered the thought that maybe some of this all comes out of heritage / generational training.

Don't forget Portugal was ruled by the Moors from North Africa ( a black race) for over 500 years... so guess who was sporned by the blacks.Yes the Portuguses!! Once you go Black no never go back!!

You mean like this Youtube video of Arnold in Rio in the 1960's or 1970's or so suggests?

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?s...riEH1bsokA. You may have to hit the confirm button to view the video. The video has bunda shaking of dark Brazilian women.

Don't forget Portugal was ruled by the Moors from North Africa ( a black race) for over 500 years...

1 - Following your logic, since blacks were enslaved in the US we can conclude they are whites because the white men owned their women;

2 - Portugal received influence from many people, include the goths from the north. I once had I girlfriend whose father was portuguese (had immigrated to Brazil), she was white as the color of the wall, green eyes, blonde;

3 - Brazil received immigrants from all parts of the world;

4 - Now they all form the brazilian civilization, one race.

I am surprised that Brazzil.com would put such an idiotic diatribe on its website. What was the author's point? Black consciousness day is a bad idea? There is no racism in Brazil? Zumbi was gay? He provided no arguments or evidence for any of his confused and unconnected points.
Non-black Brazilians may think there is little or no racism in Brazil, but like it or not, black Brazilians do think so. The recent book, "Race in Another America", has plenty of statistics to prove that racial discrimination does exist in Brazil.
By the way, I think a lot of the posts here are way off the topic.

It seems that the only people that believe that racism doesn't exist in any part of the world (not just Brazil) are those that have never felt it's consequences. This is the same for any form of superiority. I don't believe however, that as unqualified as this author is, his works should be supressed. He either naively or maliciously reflects a sentiment that people who are victims of racism and those who have an a awareness of it, should always be mindful of. The only people that have the luxury of intellectualizing about racism and whether it exists or not or to what degree, are the ones that have never felt it's consequences. Please do not be impressed by the authors credentials. Educated fools like Janer Cristaldo are really very simple-minded and wish to explain away complex issues of race and class in society as if they were only an illusion. I contend that this is simply a wake-up call to be well-read and aware. It is a worthless exercise to argue with people about the existence of any form of prejudice. It is far better to just use legal means to defeat them, while raising the conciousness of those that still have open and balanced minds.
As a side note to igapó: I am very sorry that you feel so strongly about Americans, since you have met so few of us.
I'll bet if you me met you would like me as I like most of the brasilieros I have come in contact with.
This website and forum I first visited because of my love and interest in Brasil. I'm not really sure where so many of us have gotten off on the wrong foot of waging personal attacks. You are all missing a great opportunity to get past all the BS that separates people and learn about what we all share in common.
Peace.

This gringo talk is making me sick already. Don't pretend do speak in the name of the non-white people of the world because:

- There's no such dichotomy;
- We are not your equals;

Why don't you keep this hate in the US only? I see people with absolute zero knowledge on Brazil, that has read things either through propagandistic media or books, speaking as if they were authority in anything.

Please tell me then, authorities:

- Why do white women spend endless hours in the beach for getting a tan? Aren't they happy in being white?
- Why do rounded bundas are regarded as good if that's definetely NOT one of the attributes white women are famous for?
- Why the mulata is regarded as "good looking"? In a racist country wouldn't a blonde be better suited for the sinonym of beauty?
- Look at what the brasileiro thinks an attrative woman is, is it close to any european standard?

I have lived my all life in this country and haven't found any of problems you cited. Either I am the luckiest man on earth or you are mistaken.

written by Will Pickering, 2006-12-11 11:29:56

I am surprised that Brazzil.com would put such an idiotic diatribe on its website. What was the author's point? Black consciousness day is a bad idea? There is no racism in Brazil? Zumbi was gay? He provided no arguments or evidence for any of his confused and unconnected points.
Non-black Brazilians may think there is little or no racism in Brazil, but like it or not, black Brazilians do think so. The recent book, "Race in Another America", has plenty of statistics to prove that racial discrimination does exist in Brazil.
By the way, I think a lot of the posts here are way off the topic

Best comments written on this idiotic article passing itself off as journalism.

Hearing over the crowded São Paulo’s parade in the day of the black conscience I cherished the small glimpse of awareness raise over people’s situation in Brasil. For me a rise of conscience of the one’s own conditions of living in Brasil, and especially this conscience as a group, is never enough or ends. I am aware that the majority of Brazilians who suffer the most deprivations here are the black and mulatto people; I also know they are in a bigger number. If not allowing the distribution of wealth can be considered racism, then I would say that there’s racism in Brazil. I don’t deny the existence of racism as something universal, and even racism in Brasil practiced maybe by some, I believe it is more accurate say by a few, but I still can’t see racism as an issue in Brasil. I also find as over the top the article’s tone.

If someone said that mulatas do Sargentely, that e-harmony mentioned in an u tube video with the governator, the way black women here are considered sexual objects, can be considered a kind of racism then I’d say it is more about chauvinism against them than other thing, that’s my opinion. See, when abolition of slavery happened at the end of the 19th century, intellectuals considered as a solution grant land to the newly free men and women understanding they would contribute to the development of the country besides of starting their lives from some point. The white farmers, the official land owners and heir, legislators and the dominant power did not see the same way. They wouldn’t give up lands like that and that was not motivated by color but due to no dividing the bulk, I believe this habit is as old as the patter tribes of the classic civilizations. What I do believe is that this day should raise a conscience of the less privileged people in Brazil, how they live, why is that, what solutions can be and THEY must find, what is necessary to learn, who are there to associate with. Among those who suffer the most needs in Brazil are the nordestinos, who are Indian descent and the indigenous people it self along with the black and mulattoes. You see, if you are regular dressed in São Paulo, being whatever color, you are not well treated even by the mulattoes or black employees, janitors, sales clerks etc.
Also I understand that what Americans understand as black race, in Brazil even mixed race consider themselves mulattoes and not black at all. In the Brazilian understanding black people are indeed 6 % of the country’s population. Think also Cristaldo might be referring with this article to the current actions of the black movement of offering superficial solutions to the black people; much like the Bolsa Família that doesn’t promote their development, the cotas, shares, in the public universities for the black people, in this case discriminate the poor of all races! If it is a temporary for this very generation it seems reasonable but not a permanent solution, cause 1.public schools must be improved and 2. public universities must be based in merit. This conscience seems to be raising more prejudice than clearness at this point.

I too think that I was lately radical about Americans. I know few Americans yes but I also read and hear about them as well as I read stuff here that relates to me as a brazilian. I am aware that not all Americans are simple-minded in addition to I’m aware not all Brazilian politicians are corrupt because this is a misguided conception. And I had to read carefully, accompany daily articles and writings to state this!

Meu amigo igapó:
I understand some of the problems that many Brazilians may have with the attempts of non-white Brazilians are making to resolve issues of inequality in Brazilian society. Just like democracy in Brazil is rather new...so is this arising consciousness about the need for non-whites in Brazil to seek equity. Both concepts need time to evolve and work out the kinks so that Brazilian society can continue to evolve into a place where the opportunity is available for anyone willing to make the effort to succeed and in the end make Brazil a greater and more prosperous nation.
The American concept of race is false (and certaintly was not developed by Black Americans), though it may be commonly accepted, It has no basis in science. We all know there is a difference between science and social and polictical reality. No matter what a non-white person perceives themselves as, when people who are part of the dominant majority perceive a difference, they have a choice to make about how they will treat that person. For some unfortunately that treatment will be unfair and discriminatory to say the least. No matter how I, in Ameica or any Brazilian chooses to label ourselves eg. Black, negro, mulato, pardo...this has absolutely no impact on the manner in which people who are racist/prejudiced will behave towards me. Folha de Sao Paulo had two articles on the front page when I was there in November. One about a babysitter who lost out on a job, because of her race and the failure of Brazilian authorities to do anything about it. The second was about the disparity in in pay between so-called Blacks and Pardos in Brazil with the same educational background as Whites. Calling oneself mulato, morena clara or whatever wont save people from being victims of people who are either consciously and maliciously biased or in most cases unconsciously biased, much of which in my opinion stems from the psyco-historical fallout of colonialism/slavery. For Black people in America, identifying oneself as Black has more of a political signifigance than people looking from the outside may realize. Even though there are many shades of Black people in America who if they didn't label themselves Black you might think they were White...this gives us a political cohesiveness that allows us to collectively address issues of discrimination. It gives us a unified voice in a society in which we compose only 13% of the population. If societies and people could be fair and reasonable this would not be needed. This idea of racial/ethnic equity exists on the Star Ship Enterprise not in our world. I hope that instead of anger and lack of reason there can be more discovery and discussion about this topic both in Brazil and the exterior. There will never be perfection in any society, but there is lots of room for improvement.
Abracos.

Calling oneself mulato, morena clara or whatever wont save people from being victims of people who are either consciously and maliciously biased or in most cases unconsciously biased, much of which in my opinion stems from the psyco-historical fallout of colonialism/slavery.

This is false, I didn't find it in where I live and I am not 100% white. No signs of discrimination whatsoever. I have to say that I worked with the most varied kinds of people and I was always well regarded because of my talent. If I didn't manage to get the highest salary, I have to confess that my incompetence in negotiating was the cause of it, not some "conspiracy from the white men".

There's no justification for implementing America's race system. As you said yourself this is false, so why bother? Besides, this has an extremely negative impact to the mind of the individual. It takes the responsibility of creating one's own self and gives them a stereotype they should follow. People tends to get easier to manage. This was done successfully in Germany post- WWI. Not that they were racism free before, but the misery and humiliation they suffered PLUS some identity politics putting the blame on some "international jew conspiracy" (instead of telling they were the guilty of their own state of misery) created an evil that still exists today.

One thing I see is that Brazil is a class based society, and if you are poor you will be treated like crap by everyone (the police, commerce, etc). The person being illiterate and/or rude, plus poorly dressed won't help either and people will avoid them. But the poor are not saints either, they believe they have the right to everything without even making the effort (the government should give everything to them). I know some people that worked in hospitals that accepted SUS, the poor people that went there weren't "oppressed", they were EXTREMELY RUDE, to the point of beating the doctors.

This is a problem related to a social problem, not race.

Even though there are many shades of Black people in America who if they didn't label themselves Black you might think they were White...this gives us a political cohesiveness that allows us to collectively address issues of discrimination

As I have repeated many times in this website, political power is what this is all about, and that makes no difference if it were about Nazis. This "victim mindset" is despisable, the person assumes a passive stance. The myth of the cannibal I put in another thread is far better, because it's a warrior one.

One of values I was taught was of fighting for things I want in this life because no one will give me anything, and I have done fairly well. I saw others doing fairly well too. All was gained through work and study, nothing was given to me. So I ask: "Why blacks want things for free?".

I hope that instead of anger and lack of reason there can be more discovery and discussion about this topic both in Brazil and the exterior. There will never be perfection in any society, but there is lots of room for improvement.

I don't know about the US, and I don't really care honestly, but the one thing we don't need is this small-mindedness. Being free to be whatever you want should be included in the freedom the americans say they have.

After reading so many gringos, I don't think you are free at all. You are miserable, talk, act and write as such.

Does not matter if someone got out of the favela and got some education, when it's time to make a job interview if his or her's address ( postal zip code) is not from the right neighbourhood it's back to the slums folks. Seen it so many times can even count how many now. Why do the service elevators in the condos and apto buildings have a rear door? Sure the social elevator has to accept Blacks and mulatas and morenas by law but the servants are not going to challenge the white tenents about it. Back of the bus and please use the service entrance.. Please and thanks!! By the way the most beautiful girls regarded by male Brazilians are the white top models from the southern states of Santa Catarina and Rio Grande do Sul. Not dark and hairy !!!

Where did you get these stupid ideas from? The service entrance exists for the same reason store workers in a mall aren't allowed to carry things around (like trash or equipment) in the hours the mall is working. Would you like to smell trash while shopping? So the people that do the cleaning usually use those entrances in condos.

What non-sense is that of mulatas and morenas? Don't mix everything like some messed up gringo!

Tell me, how many blondes from Rio Grande do Sul have you met with rounded bundas, the way brazilians like? Do you know anything about Brazil!? Then you should know that bundas are the "paixão nacional" and non-racially mixed blondes (usually) don't have it. I even joked with a friend some time in the past, he said the americans would colonize the moon (sic!) then I said it would be "the land of the women with flat butts", this would be immediately recognized by anyone with any knowledge on Brazil to be said by a brazilian.

What a moron. I guess the only brazilian girl you know is Gisele Bündchen! Do you know her nickname was "Olive Oyl" from the Popeye cartoon? Why is that? Because she was so hot? I will let you answer that.

A brazilian:
You should have no fear of using your real name and standing firmly behind the comments you make.
It's laughable that on one hand you assert that you have never been a victim of racism and then conclude that racism doesn't exist. This denial that you are in about the existence of racism is far more insideous than overt racism itself.
To suggest that the problems with inequity in Brazil are based solely on class is just pure fiction. To further suggest that in my reply I have suggested to anyone how they should define themselves then you have totally misunderstood and misrepresented my words. They were not meant to suggest to anyone what they should or should not do, these are after all the opinions of one man based on his life experience. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me on this since you are undoubtedly in your skin and I am in mine. Not 100% white is not the same as being perceived as black or of African heritage, half Indian is not the same as being perceived as an Indian. Before you take such an absolute stance on discrimination in Brazil, why don't you spend some time talking with other Brazilians who look like African descendants and get thier perspective on it as I have over the many years I have travelled to Brazil. That you attempt to describe my knowledge of Brazil as someone who just read books about it...I'm here to tell you that I travel to and throughoutt your country frequently. How many times have you been to the US? Nowhere did not suggest that Brazil implements America's system of racial classification. If you would be a bit less defensive you would see that I only sought to explain it, not to prescribe it for Brazil.
To make statements like:
"I don't know about the US, and I don't really care honestly, but the one thing we don't need is this small-mindedness"
This statement is the very definition of small-mindedness.
Then to follow that up with stereotypical, racist diatribe on Blacks that supposedly want something for nothing:
So I ask: "Why blacks want things for free?"
I have a question for you. Since most of the wealth in Brazil is cincentrated in the hands of so few whites.
I ask you how did they get it. Hard work? Good Ethics? Fairness? I know you already know the answer to that one.
How about the BloodSucking (Sanguessugas) polititians (mostly non-Black) of Brazil?! Are they also like the Blacks that want something for nothing?
Holla Back Yo!

Kevin I believe a brazilian is under his skin and you can quite grasp that too. I am afraid you may be idealizing people. A brazilian did not say all black & morenos want to gain life for free. This is not restricted to black guys unskilled whites are too into it. Think of public jobs in Brazil. Everybody who don't have a good job or even trained skills wants to run for this more-than-the-average-job-wages. It is a "bloody" run for this types of jobs. And you know the results of this kind of service in brazil, bureaucracy, inefficience. Many of the people who gain bolsa família voted for Lula because of this benefit and others they really expect to have. If bolsa família is important, I have no doubt of it, many very poor families depend on it to live! But like brazilian said this is just a palliative solution, they remain in a passive and victimized position towards society.

Brazilian articles circulated discussing if this racial cote wouldnt in fact implement a new racial system here. And you know that Brazil compare itself to America and other first world nations in terms of indexes and in this case to the racial system. And many did say frequently that this racial cotes would be implementing a system very close to the American and questioned if this was a solution to Brazil. I am sure there must be articles in Portuguese in the web that you can read on it.


Because one reads or/and listen everyday about the sanguessugas then one can conclude that every individual in Brazil is making his way through non ethic ways? Where is capitalism in it? Isn't it profit made from hard work from others, a mais-valia? Wouldn't it be valuable if every professional category in Brazil would have a strong union to negotiate better deals for every category? Nobody denials racism but Brazil has overcome lots of its bitter heritage, black people are not as treated in Brazil in a preconceived manner as they did in the 20's 50's 80's and so on. That's why many people get fed up this cotes for example appears to be a step back and not a step forward....

A brazilian it is said that oppressed people are the ones who most oppress. The result of living an oppressed life, of getting to know from life especially oppression, is alienation, the mother and father of oppression.

This Stephen White is a bad joke, the man wants an angry response by defaming Brazilians. His comment was of a great stupidity that anyone can read. Do you believe Stephen that people who live in Capão Redondo, a wrong zip code according to you, have jobs, commute everyday? You probably bump into them on the streets. But who knows maybe now you don't live in the south region as a hotelary professional, neither you live in the Northeast with your daughter. Who knows where your zip code is?

"Back of the bus and please use the service entrance.. Please and thanks!! "

Hey Stephen White, I am sure this is what you wanted to say to more people than you really can!

Yes, I think this country is full of people that think the government is a "father" that should give everything, rich and poor alike. Public jobs are a cancer, they seem to live in an utopia of "never getting fired" and other privileges, this causes the country to be very inneficient. Does it exist in other non-communist countries? Is it conceivable that someone get a job today and it's guaranteed not be fired ever? Everytime there's one of those "concursos públicos" thousands of people do it, in the hope of putting "o burro na sombra". The dreams of parents is their boys to be football players and the girls to be models, if they aren't fit for those jobs then the next dream in the list is having a public job, an easy life guaranteed.

In my opinion everything should be privatized, even the universities. Then this quota talk would be over. The government should invest more in basic education and could offer college scholarships for low income people instead of maintaining colleges for the richest portion of our population.

Dr. Janer Cristaldo, You are my hero for pointing out that Brazil is plurality mulatto, that there are also many mulattos in America, and that the "one drop rule" should not be exported to Brazil or anywhere else. I hope that your excellent idea for a "Mulatto Consciousness Day" as a national holiday in Brazil comes to fruition. And I hope that it is an example for America, too.

I would also like to add, one can oppose homophobia, and one can believe that racism exists in countries ranging from Brazil to Nigeria to Sweden, and still support positive mulatto identity and consciousness, and still oppose any one-drop rules, in Brazil, Amrica, and the rest of the world.

Brasileiros, falemos somente o português e deixemos esses gringos se virarem com tradutores pela rede mundial, se assim quiserem. Assim podemos conversar livremente e comentar as asnices aqui escritas por eles. Esse site não pode ser sério ao permitir coisas como bem exemplificados nesses comentários. Isso não é apenas ofensivo de uma forma inocente, mas sim proposital. O intuito desse site é denegrir a imagem do Brasil e de seu povo, portanto gastar tempo e saliva argumentando é inútil.

Escrevamos somente o português para que outros brasileiros não se iludam ao visitar o site, e deixemo-los na escuridão de sua própria ignorância.

concordo com a brasileira

… besides being constipated also suffer from amnesia.

LOUD & CLEAR: The one nation absolutely obsessed with race is called “The United States of Amnesia.”

As stated before…

The land of the free unless of course you are…

Black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, Middle Eastern, Jewish, female, gay, lesbian, non-republican, disabled, atheist, old, poor, middle class, undereducated, unattractive, live in certain zip codes, have ethnic sounding surnames, fall into lower tax brackets, of non-christian religion, not unionized, and have opinions contrary to popular attitude.

Nof said!

For the Brasileiros and Brasileiras, please express yourselves freely in english. IF not just for the fun of proving how smart you are, please do it for those of us who have no education in the portugues language and don't own text translator programs. Despite having to skip through a bunch of crap more often than not, there's a chance that many people who read this site are interested in gaining your perspective on what goes on there or anywhere else in the world. Being uneducated (i.e. speak or read little PT) and poor (i.e. don't invest in the tools to assist translation from more serious sites - or is that just being stingy and cheap?) does not mean we're unable to qualify our sources of information (i.e. one newspaper towns that give biased views are not a unique phenomena) nor prevent us from appreciating those expressing controversial viewpoints or viewpoints that contradict our own beliefs.

To e harmony - who give's a f*** about shaking bunda, the subject was existance of apparent racial bias against those viewed as black blacks even by those of mostly black african heritage. Yes, the Brazilian mulata that is the only one in her family that doesn't have a bunda is very likely to be severely jealeous. That has nothing to do with what would make a one drop type cracker white gringa hate white white's in the US.

First of all, I'm no native english speaking explain yourself what you call me "That has nothing to do with what would make a one drop type cracker white gringa hate white white's in the US". My horrendous "friend" I don't feel like writing to you much less give explanations to you.

"For the Brasileiros and Brasileiras, please express yourselves freely in english.

Despite having to skip through a bunch of crap more often than not, there's a chance that many people who read this site are interested in gaining your perspective on what goes on there or anywhere else in the world."

For you Simpleton I say FUUUUUUCK YOU.

Não, nos comunicaremos em português e vocês que se virem. Não há a menor relação entre o publicado nesse site e a realidade no Brasil. Esse site visa a propaganda de ideais odiosos e é livremente usado por imbecis espalhados pelo mundo inteiro. Existe uma diferença em pontos de vista diferentes e propaganda. Nesse site tudo é de má fé.

A brazilian, obrigado por sua explicacao. Nao necessidade. Eu e os outras muito estupida acho palavras aqui em tudo sem qualificacao e raciocinio (HA!). Nenhuma respeita ninguem esta dias.

Em relativa, por que um branco com linagem negra minimo tenge preconceito para brancos sem linagem negra e um negra com linagem branco minimo tenge preconceito para negras sem branco? Eu conheci de cada e nao compreendo. Explicacao classico (pobreza, educacao, poder, outros) falhar.

Falhar... o seu raciocínio falhar a muito tempo... lol

HaHa -ok Napoleon. Desculpa portugues de meu. Falar sobre alguns pessoa com inexplicavel problema - pessoa branco com problema de pessoas mais branco no EUA e mulato com problema de pessoas negra no BZ. (Pessoas a ou de coracao e que luta pela justica social de resto, tirando isso.)

you all read these official statistics http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/es...so2000.pdf
_______________________________________________________
_____________________________________________
Racism against Black people does exist in Brazil

If racism wouldn't exist, why many Black people declared themselves as "Parda" in statistics? A good way to understand if you are considered to be black or white in the "non racist" paradise that is the country of miscegenation would be taking a hundred of those people who declared themselves as "Pardo" in these statistics and have them run into one of those condominiums in Ipanema or Jardins and see what the reaction of the vigilantes there. Or showing up at some dinner in the same condominiums and being introduced as the new boyfriend of their daughter to mum and daddy.

The problem for my family member and the problem for my friend are not unique. I do not like that they have this problem. I do not know why or how they have this problem. I love them anyway. Thier problem is mild. It rarely makes them do things or say things to hurt someone. If some day someone can find why they have this problem maybe they will find many other people have this cause but with stronger and more damaging consequences. Then maybe someone can find a way to elminate this problem. Over time such a solution would have much greater effect and be easier to implement than making the classical excuses of poverty, education, disparity in power and or money go away. Face it, the classical excuses will never go away. Anything done to try to help a little bit with those issues should never be labeled or associated as being because you are trying to address racism or the effects thereof. (I know, I know - don't say it, the Brazilians will never admit they have racism just like anywhere else on the planet.)

Cara, deixa de ser imbecil. Paliativo do quê? Desde quando ter vários ascendentes lhe torna negro? E por que, nesse caso, negro seria superior aos demais a ponto de sozinho determinar o que é uma pessoa é?

Quem você pensa que é para dizer o que pessoas são? Não é responsabilidade delas criarem as suas próprias idéias, através da reflexão e de suas vidas? Limitar essas diferenças não é como colocar arreio na mente? Não é tratar o povo como gado?

Muita gente reclama de "nacionalismos" de imigrantes, pessoas louvando as suas origens, sejam italianos, japoneses, etc, mas há uma diferença entre eles e essa babaquice racista, não somos obrigados a aturá-los e nem a concordar com o que quer que digam. Eles fazem o que querem e somos livres para ignorá-los. O que esses negros racistas americanos querem é a ditadura da cor, onde a pessoa é classificado de acordo com o que meia dúzia pensa.

Sobre o seu exemplo do condomínio realmente foi ridículo. Eu tenho amigos mulatos que calharam de nascer com fenótipo negro, e eles não tem problema algum na vida relacionado a namoradas e famílias de namoradas. Um deles inclusive é filho de um negro rico!

Esse pessoal perdeu o juízo em alguma época da vida. Gente amarga e perdida que busca incluir os outros nas suas maquinações miseráveis. Isso é espírito pequeno, vontade pequena, efeminados mas não como as grandes mulheres, efeminados num tom pejorativo assim como os boiolas e os frouxos.

Eu não entendi a sua pergunta.

A braxilian - Eu nao entendi uma palavara a sua posta so - "pergunta". Com pesquisa pequena a google eu endendio - pergunta = "?"!! Vc melhore algo. Pegunta apos "I know, I know..." nao esse sirio. Anticipar-se reposta a os outras com tendencia fanatica e negativo so. (e atrapalhado pesonalidade duplo de meu? Eu maluco, sim. Combinar duas mensagem em um o exhibicao duas opiniao contraditorio - desgraca de Libra.)

A os pergunta sirio (preconceito radcial - existe em Brasil e todo mundo) - sugerir a pesquisa sintoma atipica e rara de conhecido meu - analogue a pesquisa medico que esse muito famoso em brazil. Possibilidade esse pista ir ao solucao unico, universal e permanente. Eu concordo educacao ajudar em parte. Distribuir dinheiro, poder parte, cota legislacao - palliative falhar.

Por favor, condescender a ou escriver em ingles. Eu consado e preguicoso.

http://www.nature.com/embor/jo...00158.html

Here is the explanation.

SOMEWHERE IN AMERICA...

Every hour
someone commits a hate crime.

Every day
at least eight blacks, three whites, three gays, three Jews and one Latino become hate crime victims.

Every week
a cross is burned.

Hate in America is a dreadful, daily constant. The dragging death of a black man in Jasper, Texas; the crucifixion of a gay man in Laramie, Wyo.; and post-9.11 hate crimes against hundreds of Arab Americans, Muslim Americans and Sikhs are not "isolated incidents." They are eruptions of a nation's intolerance.

Bias is a human condition, and American history is rife with prejudice against groups and individuals because of their race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or other differences. The 20th century saw major progress in outlawing discrimination, and most Americans today support integrated schools and neighborhoods. But stereotypes and unequal treatment persist, an atmosphere often exploited by hate groups.

When bias motivates an unlawful act, it is considered a hate crime. Race and religion inspire most hate crimes, but hate today wears many faces. Bias incidents (eruptions of hate where no crime is committed) also tear communities apart — and threaten to escalate into actual crimes.

According to FBI statistics, the greatest growth in hate crimes in recent years is against Asian Americans and the gay and lesbian community. Once considered a Southern phenomenon, today most hate crimes are reported in the North and West.

And these numbers are just the tip of the iceberg. Law enforcement officials acknowledge that hate crimes — similar to rape and family violence crimes — go under-reported, with many victims reluctant to go to the police, and some police agencies not fully trained in recognizing or investigating hate crimes.

The good news is ...
All over the country people are fighting hate, standing up to promote tolerance and inclusion. More often than not, when hate flares up, good people rise up against it — often in greater numbers and with stronger voices.

This guide sets out 10 principles for fighting hate, along with a collection of inspiring stories of people who worked to push hate out of their communities.

Whether you need a crash course to deal with an upcoming white-power rally, a primer on the media or a long-range plan to promote tolerance in your community, you will find practical advice, timely examples and helpful resources in this guide. The steps outlined here have been tested in scores of communities across the nation by a wide range of human rights, faith and civic organizations.

Our experience shows that one person, acting from conscience and love, is able to neutralize bigotry. Imagine, then, what an entire community, working together, might do.

photo: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel



Respond to bigoted comments

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10 Ways to Fight Hate on Campus

101 Tools for Tolerance

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Active U.S. Hate Groups in 2005

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/?source=redirect&url=tolerance-maps-hate

Go back and read the article. It mentions Brazil, Soviet Union, Swede, Nigeria. No USA, America, etc. Not one reference. And yet all the blah, blah, blah, comments about America and its nature and its statistics.You anti-Americans have an easily seen through, Freudian fixation. Shakespeare said, "Methinks the damsel protesteth too much". How can you hate something and yet bring it up out of the blue and talk about it incessantly? Não bate bem, não.

Ph.D's from the University of Paris, Sorbonne, must be a dime a dozen these days. I cannot think of a single social scientist who would claim that Blacks in Brazil are (really) 6% of the population. Janer, why don't you do all of us a favor? Why don't you go back to Paris where you belong? What do you know about being Black and discriminated in Brazil as a member of the elites?

For a supposedly educated man he holds very little forsight.He's views are outrightly prejudice!His very reasoning is the very reason Brazil has a black conscience day!Ask him how many black people you evers ee on TV in Brazil or why so many black people live below the povery line,or better yet why most of the street children slaughtered every year are of obvious black descent...bet he wouldn't have an answer.

Brazil has alot of racism. The general black population do not have the self pride in their African Roots as say the U.S.A. or Jamaica. I don't think blacks want anything for free in these countries any more than whites. The colonizers have been taking the labor of the people for free for hundreds of years. The industries want cheap labour from the underclass. If they don't have anything to offer they the government fails to recognize them. I wonder if those poor favelas have internet connections in their schools. They now find it impossible to get the skills and resources because they are out of the starting block a couple of hundreds of years late. You have the Oprah Winfrey's and other black millionaires in the U.S.A. Brazil doesn't have that. No self awareness. This guy who wrote this story probably bought his P.H.D. off the internet.

It's sickening to hear people that probably never set foot in Brazil to promote this hatred view of the world, of racial segregation. I think the brazilian population is being underestimated in its ability to think, this week I saw on TV a black girl saying that she doesn't want to fight anybody and that we are all brazilians! Thank God the population is not taking this crap seriously.

Oh my god, I am going to vomit. But I will stand up against these racists, because I don't want to see my country to become some kind of hell just like in the US.

Brazil has alot of racism. The general black population do not have the self pride in their African Roots as say the U.S.A. or Jamaica.

So you think segregation and an artificial "self pride" is the "right way"? So all those Nazis in the US aren't they proud of being pure white? Is this kind of Nazism you are proposing?

THIS IS NOT AFRICA. AND NOT EUROPE TOO. Brazilians, let's build a civilization unlike anything else in this world!! Let's leave these poor racist bastards to choke in their own bile and live their miserable lives locked in some ghetto.

I don't think blacks want anything for free in these countries any more than whites. The colonizers have been taking the labor of the people for free for hundreds of years. The industries want cheap labour from the underclass. If they don't have anything to offer they the government fails to recognize them.

WTF? Where did you get this from? What colonizers for Christ's sake? Everyone is free to do whatever they want, and if they are capable then will have the rewards. There's absolutely nothing preventing blacks from being wealthy.

I wonder if those poor favelas have internet connections in their schools. They now find it impossible to get the skills and resources because they are out of the starting block a couple of hundreds of years late. You have the Oprah Winfrey's and other black millionaires in the U.S.A.

There are tens of millionaires. Have you ever heard of football players, they are zillionaires and appear on TV selling all kinds of stuff.

Brazil doesn't have that. No self awareness. This guy who wrote this story probably bought his P.H.D. off the internet.

Self awareness??????? WE DO HAVE SELF-AWARENESS, WE ARE BRAZILIANS!! Keep your nazi ramblings in the US please, go play eugenics with you brothers from the KKK and leave us alone.

"The general black population do not have the self pride in their African Roots as say the U.S.A. or Jamaica." This is the truth. Speak to many mixed Brazilians who are obviously part black and they will say classify themselves a white. I have seen this so many times it is a joke. Where is the pride?

"The colonizers have been taking the labor of the people for free for hundreds of years". Truth Portuguese were colonizers. Brazil has a history of slavery. (If you don't know your past you don't know your future)

P.S. I am glad Italy won the world cup.

"There's absolutely nothing preventing blacks from being wealthy" You guys are going to have some real problems if you stick your head in the sand"

You guys are going to have some real problems if you stick your head in the sand

Like you have any idea of what you are talking about...

Janer Cristaldo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Empire

You really want to avoid that there are race problems by saying that it is really a "class problem, because racism does not exist in Brazil".
Am I mistaken in believing that there is a black underclass in Brazil?That those with the greatest wealth are white?
Can you answere these questions without a personal attack. I do not advocate any racial segregation. How do you equate being proud of your
African roots and being a Nazi?

Aren't Nazis proud of being white? Such line of thinking tends to favor segregation, because everyone will be proud of something and unwilling to mix.

There are poors in Brazil, of all colors. And there are black riches also. Statistically, for propaganda purposes, it's more conveninent to considerer, in the US racism style, every person with some black relative in the family (sometimes even generations behind) to be "black". This way the numbers of the "black underclass" is huge, but they are also made up.

We should give better conditions for people from lower classes to be able to ascend in society, not to privilege blacks at the expense of everyone else.

I suggest you take a look at the proposals made by black movements to be adopted in Brazil, they are completely out of their minds. They basically want to force the adoption of the "one drop rule" in Brazil, so they would go from 6% to almost 50% of blacks overnight, and they want to do so by tagging people. They know that people won't do it out of their free will, because of the heavy mixing of the population there are hundreds of color and physical variations. Yes, just like the jews in the WWII, remember? So every "afro-descendent" would be indentified as such and use his "black card" to use government services.

This among other stupidities, like teaching African history in school. Who cares? We are supposed to learn world history and brazilian history. What do they have in their minds?

This is not meant for building a strong brazilian society with a strong brazilian identity, this is meant to destroy Brazil by fracturing it the same way the US is fractured, the Anglo-Saxon way. The difference is that by then we would be playing the US rules.

BTW, blacks have achieved things in Brazil that you will never be able to achieve in the US. They freely celebrate their culture and we, brazilians like me, despite of hating it we are fed 24x7 via TV and other media. Black americans seems to be embarassed of their culture and try to mimic whites in every way.

We are free. You are not.

Nazi's are not only proud of being white but also believed in the extermination of jews, gypsies and other "inferior races". I am sure you know the legacy of Nazi's and their beliefs. I live in Canada not the U.S.A. Although some may call it a myth and we are a new country we call ourselves a "multicultural society". In Canada we encourage various cultures whether Italian, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, Portuguese or Aboriginal to be proud of their heritage and they are free to practice most of the customs as protected by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I do not equate the pride of any of these cultures with Nazis.It did not promote segregation really because we have a high rate of inter cultural and interracial marriage. The African Carribean community in Canada promote a concept of "black pride" that is intended to elevate the community not for hate but to elevate the pride in their own customs. Courses are avaiable on many subjects if you are willing to pay for it and education is accessible. I do not see anything wrong with teaching African History. I am not sure if you are talking about the history of the African continent or African slaves brought to Brazil. If it is part of Brazilian history what is wrong with teaching it? It might evoke hate?

You talk about the underclass being of many races in Brazil. I know in Brazil there are so many mixed people that the definition of white black brown ect. is blurred. In Canada white is usually someone who is a White Anglo Saxon Protestant. A person with roots in the United Kindom. Portuguese and Italians are not what is really considered "White".
The funny thing is whatever label someone decides to put on you does not change who you are. Your DNA will tell you who you are. In the Carribean I may be white but in Russia I am black. Does that really change who I am? I actually believe in the statistics and it really does not matter if YOU believe in them or not. If Brazil corrects the problem with the underclass which you say is not a black problem, It will correct what I perceive as a race problem.

I am not sure if you have ever seen the movie Hollywood Shuffle. At the time the movie was quite hilarious because it hit the nail on the head about racism in the media.
I think Brazil is behind the U.S.A. I have seen several movies and shows and it is funny how the black characters are usually from the ghetto or maids.

" Black americans seems to be embarassed of their culture and try to mimic whites in every way. " What is Black American Culture?
What have blacks tangbily accomplished that black americans have not?

Black movements want to prevail in Brazil by the extermination of mixed people. They promote a binary view of the world, by either pretending mixed people don't exist or assimilating them against their will in some "race struggle". BTW, tagging people was last used by the Nazis.

We, mixed people, are the stone in the way of the black Nazis and the power they desire. So they want to remove us "out of the way". Their plans are some sort of "Apartheid" for "fixing the mixing" that defines Brazil. And then we would an Anglo-Saxon culture installed.

In Brazil nothing prevents people from celebrating anything. We have small towns where most of the inhabitants came from Italy, and they have festivals about italian culture. The same for every single culture including the black. The difference between those and the government sponsored hatred is that we are not required to be part of it if we don't want to. If you don't feel interested about japanese culture (the largest colony of japanese outside of Japan is in Sao Paulo) you can just ignore it. This is the difference between both cases.

I don't mind if black people decide to start wearing curtains in a sign of pride, if I can ignore it I wouldn't care even if you wear a blinking sign saying "I am black".

I have met lots and lots of people with japanese descent, and I never needed to acknowledge their ancestry. I treated them like any other human being.

The Anglo-Saxon way is messed up, that simple. People are classified according to their skin color in a very strict manner, and stereotypes are included in it. The very fact you have an "interracial" term coined shows that this is something different for you. Canada is nowhere close to have the same level of mixing as Brazil has.

I have seen people of all origins living together, working together, married or not, and never saw a reason to label with a special term because it's just natural.

All "cultures" we study are included in World history, there's absolutely no reason to create a new subject called "African history" and force the population to take it, that's the what the black Nazi movements want.

About the media, I don't think you have any data to say that. Now, you see, it's a matter of convenience, you will probably point out the cases where the blacks are portraited as maids and guetto dwellers, but will not point out the cases where the mixed people (black for you) are in high positions. Why the double standards? Because it's for propaganda purposes.

What have blacks accomplished that you simply can't? (because of your incredible inferiority complex) I will name a few, but you should research about it:

- customs of african origins are freely practiced to the point that people don't even recognize it as being of African origin. For example, the religion of Candomblé.

Notice that people consider it to be BRAZILIAN. When would something like that be considered Canadian? Most important of all, PEOPLE OF ALL ORIGINS PARTICIPATE IN IT, this is not a ghetto thing, white people do it and by that I mean "White people as canadians would think of white people".

- There are several foods of African origins that eaten by everyone, for example a Feijoada.

And again, IT IS CONSIDERED BRAZILIAN. When would such thing be considered Canadian? All people eat it, and I am sure they don't even know the history of it.

- There are sports of African origins that are practiced by many, for example Capoeira;

And again, IT IS CONSIDERED BRAZILIAN. When would such thing be considered Canadian?

- There are many rythms and music of african origins around;

I personally don't like any of those examples, I am catholic, I don't like that food nor that sport, nor the music, BUT THIS ONLY SHOWS THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE GHETTO MENTALITY OF THE US AND CANADA, where mixing is considered not good for the hygiene.

African culture is present, and we don't need to put signs in it. I haven't met a single person embarassed about listening to the music they like because the white people would consider it to be "monkey music", which would innevitably happen in the US and Canada.

We are free. We walk, think and live the way we want and do whatever we want without carrying any flags or hatred with us. We are free in ways you can't.

Don't worry about A brazilian's comments. He calls anyone he disagrees with a Nazi. He's just "ten pounds in a five pound bag".

It's not worth arguing with him. He has his eyes firmly closed and his fingers stuck in his ears.

But americans and other peoples from the north are notorious for applying a very strict race system, just like the Nazis. This is not the National Socialist party of Hitler, with SS and all, but they use and agree with many of the same values the Nazis did.

A brazilian, have you ever been to the U.S. or Canada? What you have written is clearly not true for the vast majority of people (probably more than 99%) in these areas. Where did you get these ideas?

There is a big difference between putting a label on someone and being a Nazi. You can't deny there are different races. Scientists try to categorize different forms of plants or other life. What is the big difference between putting a label on a person. It may not be necessary for the government to have these figures but you cannot deny there are different types of people. If you try to judge them in a negative way based on their background that is racist. It can be a cop out as well. A bigot can say" We don't see race so the reason we did not hire you is not because you are black." Now if they were to take equally qualified people and send them out to the work force and the white graduates had an easier time" we can conclude pretty safely that there is some form of racism. We can then try to correct that problem.

Are you part black? Would it upset you that you are now categorized as black? It would deny your other heritage. Would you be upset to be categorized as white?
The categorization of mixed people as "white" in brazil happens all the time. It is ridiculous to a North American. Your DNA proves who you are and your history. I am not advocating any DNA tests. You cannot lie about who you are. A scientist only needs to look at your DNA to determine your back ground.
Since all mankind is African maybe we should all be put in the black category.

I think I have said enough aobut this topic.


I am done with this argument.

Yes, I did in both countries. The first shock was to learn that people don't mix, but that was expected and would be the same as any other country since the population composition will always differ. The striking difference is the less variation is physical attributes, i.e., the whites are very white and the blacks are very black. The only ones that look more or less mixed are the ones that came from Mexico or other latin american countries. But sometimes they don't even know english.

The second shock was to learn that kids are actually taught in school to differentiate races and that blacks are dumber. For example this infamous chart:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

Nevermind the numbers, there will always be some more intelligent and some less, some will sing better some won't , some will jump higher some others won't , etc. The real issue here is to compress the whole diversity of the planet in a simple chart like that, it also illustrates the factor of "non-mixing" if it's so simple to nail things down in such a way.

The third shock was to learn that people are "encouraged" to have pride of their ancestry. Why shouldn't they encourage people to be americans or canadians? Why a black american is not called simply american but "afro-american" instead? Why such a divisive politics in separating people in groups?

The fourth shock was learning that identity politics, which was the politics practiced by the Nazis, of affirming a certain ethniticy is alive and strong in both places, not only for real Nazis but for the whole population that actually thinks that affirming race and treating people differently depending on it is a good thing.

The fifth shock was to learn that the term racism has been so misused that people don't seem to know what it means anymore in those countries. Racism is when the race factor is considered a determinant factor of what the person is and will be, i.e., one of the basis of a society. In the US and Canada it seems the only way to be a "racist" is to wear a white cape and scream "die n****rs" while burning crosses.

For a brazilian the very notion of race being taken seriously and used by many politicians as a tool is racist. I don't need to go around killing people to be a racist, all I need to feed this monster you have in there.

I don't know what this talk about DNA is all about. In anyone's blood, even in the ones are believe to be "pure-something" will be found traces from many places, simply because populations migrated all the time from place to place. And that's scientifically proven. There's no pure anything.

In a country like Brazil there will surely be hundreds, if not thousands, of such variations, if you count not only where the direct ancestors of a person came from but also the ancestors of the ancestors and so on.

You are locked in a nightmare you can't wake up from, and that explains why you categorize everything in binary. A nightmare where you hate yourself and want to spread your inner sadness all over the place. Have you ever heard that "misery loves company"?

Listen to yourself. You are implying that mixed people are actually black, but by doing that you are just confirming the same thing a member of the KKK would say, you both share the same beliefs. You call italians not white, but why is that? Because you use the same tales as the white bigots do, you believe in it with your soul. You share the same beliefs.

You have issues you need to sort out yourself, but don't talk of things you don't know about, for example Brazil, and expect not to hear a bit of truth.

Fortunately I am healthy human being that has a satisfying life, I am here just to elucidate a few misconceptions gringos love to put in this site about Brazil. In this case of the "racism" in the society. They would love to play their Nazi games in here.

Total misinterpretation of what I have said.

A brazilian,

I think I see the source of some misunderstanding here. You are misusing the work "Nazi" in English. In English, it means something else. The correct word to use in English would be "racist" or maybe "bigot" for the sentiments that you expressed.

This is like with the word "duvida" in Portuguese. Portuguese speakers frequently say "I have some doubts." in English, thinking that the word "doubt" in English means the same thing as "duvida" does in Portuguese. In this case, the correct word to use to translate "duvida" into English would be "question", and the correct phrase would be "I have some questions.".

A similar mismapping often occurs between English and French. For example, in French, the word "demand" is the equivalent word of the English "ask". The word "demand" in English means something totally different, and when French speakers "demand" something, it sounds very rude in English.

Of course, English speakers of Brazilian Portuguese have their own set of problems, not the least of which is "sounding like a robot".

The real source of some of these types of translation errors is probably the language to language dictionaries.

In general, if what appears to be the same word appears in two languages, even though it seems to be a cognitive, one must be careful because often the meaning is very different.

"A Brazilian" doesn't realize that American ghettoes are nowhere near as run-down and decrepit as your average Brazilian favela.

I have been to most of them and they are not that bad. I have never tried to be there for any extended amount of time.
D.C., Brooklyn, Detroit, Miami the bad parts.

I think "Nazi" is the perfect term for such behavior, regardless if it sounds rude or not for americans. In the United States and Canada even the blacks are Nazis.

So your conclusion is that ghettos are good? Ghetto is something that hold people based on a race, that won't be accepted anywhere else because of the perceived differences, a favela is simply a place for very poor people. Nothing prevents any black from moving to anywhere they want to, and definetely blacks don't live in favelas only.

It's not a matter of sounding rude - "racist", "bigot", "separationist" are all words that are at the minumum rude, if not insulting.

It's a matter of the wrong choice of a word. If you use the word "Nazi" for what you are trying to describe, people will think that you are crazy-wrong. You can keep using it; but there is no way that anyone will take anything else that you write seriously either because use of it destroys your credibility.

In the U.S., the word "ghetto" is used loosely. There is nothing here that prevents people from moving elsewhere and being accepted elsewhere. There are people of various ethnic extractions living everywhere. I am curious - exactly what did you experience that has distorted your perception of the U.S. so much, and how long ago was it?

These ideas are taken from many places, the main ones are these 3:

- I have been there (the last time was 3 years ago);
- I have talked to people that lived there and came back to Brasil;
- I watch TV and news;

When I was there I was shocked to see the differences, but that's not bad in itself, there will always be differences. The bad is when all people of a certain ethnicity live in one place, from another in another place, and they have little contact with each other. Maybe only in school or work you will see people of different ethnicities together, other than that you can forget it.

This alongside with the natural "race war" stance of the blacks, that accuse every non-american non-blonde human being on Earth of being "a black in denial", is enough to lead me to believe that there's something pretty much fu**** up in there.

Add to this the "pride of one's origins". I think this came up as a counter weight to a "little tree club house" that existed for the anglo-saxon descendents. Since other people couldn't "join the club" they thought: "Hey, let's make our own little tree club house and leave them out". This is so silly. You find idiots in Brazil that claim to be german, italian, etc, but never been to any of those places and don't even know the language, but it seems to be in a much minor quantity and you can easily ignore them since this is not part of the behavior of most people.

I have talked to both brazilians that lived there and americans. The brazilians, without exceptions, tell that "no matter how long you live there, you will never be one of them". This is a shock, because the only people that's not considered brazilians here are the ones that don't wish to be considered brazilians for some reason, usually immigrants that prefer to be called something else and refuse to be absorbed. Some americans (white americans I must say, this is not some rabid racial activist), in the other hand, told me that you might even be well treated for the sake of tolerance in the society, but they actually think you are sh**.

And through TV, books and the internet you can watch all that happens in there like "racial profiling", racial data like the link above I posted here that is held as "the truth" by the most of the population, racist comments in forums like this one or even in non-political forums such as IT forums, technology forums, etc.

Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying the US is the worst place on Earth. As a matter of fact the US is the only country I would live besides Brazil. Problems like racism are much worse in other places such as Europe, some parts of Asia, etc. What I mean is that Brazil's concepts of it aren't wrong, and as a matter of fact, in my opinion, they are more advanced than the ones in the United States.

[So your conclusion is that ghettos are good? /quote]

This is where we have problems. If I say that these places are not that bad, does it mean that I am saying they are good. NO.
I believe they call it creating "straw men". You create an argument that has holes in it, then you say that is my argument and then tear it down.
Nazi's are a hate group. Legislation has been created in most democratic nations to prevent groups like this from gaining power.Human Rights Act 1998, Charter of Rights ect. In the United States and Canada these groups are usually investigated. If you were to equate groups of black americans or black brazilians with "Nazi's" in a court or tribunal you
would not be able to make any kind strong argument. The label you use will never be taken seriously. You can use it on the internet though if you like.

You can use it on the internet though if you like.

Really? Will you allow me to use it? I feel much better now.

Actually, all the author of the article did was to give readers the privilege of saying whatever they want about Karl Marx. Instead they have chosen to opine on a myriad of other issues.

I think the term ghetto as applied to substandard neighborhoods in the states was originally used by certain minorities themselves simply to call attention to problems in their areas.

Some of you guys are very keen, but others seem to be a little lost and narrow minded. Kevin Campbell, you are a knowledgeable guy. I applaud you! I would like to ask some of you brainless fools a question- If you can answers it! Why do the blacks in your country live in such proverty in comparision to white brazilians? Second, How can a group people demand anything or have any sense of direction when they can't even read? 75% of brazilian 15 years olds can barley read.A high percentage can't even do basic math.The blacks and the so call malatto's in the country are weak and in no position to say what they don't want, because they really don't know. Most of you guys are running high on emotions like a little girl. Just except the facts. Brazil has race issues. This is very disturbing to me that brazil act like it doesn't have race issues.It's rediculous and more dangerous than Jim crow in America, because the racism is stealth.

Hahaha, you taking stats out of your ass! Hahaha. 75%? You made a lot of affirmations in there with no connection with reality, how can I answer something that is wrong to begin with? It's like asking "why all cars have 7 wheels?". How can someone possibly give a "correct answer" to such thing?

There must be a mental block in you that prevents you from seeing diversity. It's difficult for you to imagine a society with hundreds of colors (as people reported in the census, something around 160). The curious thing is that the ones that pretend to speak in the name of diversity and tolerance don't allow diversity and are intolerant.

This is tiresome, change the disc please. You make absolutely no effort to understand anything, you are repeatedly saying the same "black american" bulls**t everytime, and can't just conceive anything different. Too much for your mind I guess, you have been brainwashed to believe otherwise since an early age, haven't you?

Any numbers on illiteracy??

A brazilian since you know that this is not the true concerning illiteracy. What are the correct numbers for illiteracy? Any numbers of illiteracy for blacks?

jabmalassie and Ake appear to be onto something(s)
Permit me to observe: Anyone who doesn't grasp..understand..realize as a matter of
cold blooded fact..the VERY particular brand ....species...type..call it WTF you will
. of ANGLO SAXON (ARYAN/SLAVONIC) WHITE RACIST SUPREMACY and how same has
manfested its malignant murdering colonialist presence in Asia,Africa and Central/South/
Caribbean America...is someone who is a fool, pure and simple.
You want to be reminded of how these tow headed racists are??? Regardless of whether or
not you are in Sao Paulo, Harlem ,LA ,Paris..Wherever TF ???.
Take your high yellow,'mulatto.,'brazilian, 'not quite sure whoTF I am' jive stank ass to
Mother Russia, as only an example, and your stupid race denying butt WILL be stomped into
the mud. Check it: http://www.rickross.com/refere...ps408.html
I am a North American Black man... I do not know or claim to know Brazil. But some of the
posts are written as if blacks with subSaharan 'Negroid' blood are somehow 'distanced' from
some mulatto Brazilians or mixed blood Americans,etc.etc.Ths is madness. Think not??
Go screw with them NeoNazi Russians...you'll see how 'Aryan' your ass is :O)

Here is a good read.

http://www.cidi.oas.org/InteramerStromPiz.htm

My stats are true- you can go look them up if you want to! You don't even know about your countries education system- Give me a break buddy. I see that you have an undeveloped mind. I can concieve different, but not bull s**t.You have nothing to back up what you're saying. You are a well trained dog written by A brazilian. Diversity! How about Diversifing the wealth and the resources of the world. When that happens then we can talk about true diversity. haha. You kill me writen by A brazilain. How could you compare history with a 7 wheel car. How dumb are you? I'm talking facts buddy. You must not be well read buddy! It's not that hard to give an answer to something so obvious. Oh yeah, I for got! May be a brainless fool like you self would have problem giving an answer, because your head feel with so much air an not enough true knowledge. Here is a article about the illteracy.

http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/757/36/

I have some more for you once you read have that one. I have see can you comprehend that 30% of the population between the age of 17-2 are not in school.

Peace

I can't leave with out s**tting in your face. Here is theweb site. I have more information that will alleviate you of your ignorance's.


http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1206/p06s01-woam.html

He is going to say that the statistics are a lie. This is what I call "sticking your head in the sand".

The conflict between whites and blacks in the states is very real in history and very real in the minds of some, but not in present day reality. The interesting conflict to watch today is blacks versus hispanic/asian immigration. Some sociologists predict that the black experience in America will in the not so distant future, be a memory, an interesting historical sidelight.

Buildings in L.A.´s civic center used to be tended to by government employees, whether city, state of federal. Most were black and they earned a decent wage, benefits and retirement. Now it´s bid out to independent latino operators.

As blacks become less of a percentage, their influence will dwindle. If you like conspiracies, few are better documented than Planned Parenthood et al, and their agenda in promoting and financing abortions in the black community.

black experience in America will in the not so distant future, be a memory, an interesting historical sidelight.

I don't think the history will ever be just a sidelight(sidenote?).

Things change and when America itself becomes just a side note then the black american experience will be just a side note. Immigration will be a hot topic for some time to some.
In Europe is is an issue and it is seen a someone of a "problem". The industrialized countries are experiencing a negative birth rate. They depend on immigrants for economic growth however they have problems with assimiliating these immigrants. Qualified immigrants face issues finding good positions. In France, Spain, Russia, Canada there is a dilemma.

You may be right, and the experts often call it wrong. Even now, though, U.S. politicians are starting to pitch more to the latino vote than the black vote.

You may be right, and the experts often call it wrong. Even now, though, U.S. politicians are starting to pitch more to the latino vote than the black vote.


This is true. I hear where you are coming from.

What is that of Anglo-saxon white supremacy!? Do you know that the english DIDN'T colonize Brazil? Have you had some basic world history in your school? We have something you will never have and it's the diversity and culture. You guys live segregated and not by choice, you are kept segregated by the anglo-saxon culture, which, thank God, I don't live under. Yes, I think it sucks, but instead of fighting it you seem to prefer to support it by repeating the same lines a KKK member would use about race and everything else. Good luck with that.

About going to Russia and meeting Aryans, what does it matter? If you go to the wrong place you will find bad things, just like going to the wrong neighborhood in a violent city can get you killed, walking in a place known by racism is no different.

THE POINT IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT IN HERE, AND IT'S NOT OUR PROBLEM. YOU WON'T FIND "ANGLO-SAXON WHITE SUPREMACISTS" KILLING PEOPLE AROUND HERE, AND EVEN IF THERE WERE THEY WOULD BE PROBABLY LYNCHED BY THE POPULATION BEFORE THE POLICE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING.

What I think it's incredible is the level of cluelessness of this people. They know nothing about Brazil or about anything, they just assume that the racist society of the United States is the "right thing" and everyone else should just copy. Open your minds.

About the "stats", this is just laughable. One is from a self-promoting politician complaining about the government celebrating 95% of children in schools, by bashing the quality of it. And the second just goes over some numbers without any linking to any study, and not detailed of how that information was obtained, where or when. What should we think of it then?

You lost us right there at the top with the phrase, "You guys..". That sounds a lot like "You People"......

There he goes with the "straw man" argument. Nobody said that the English colonized Brazil. How about the Portuguese? Were they not responsible for slavery ect.
Before you call people "black racists" first make sure they are actually black. Who are the "black racists" and what do they believe that would make them a hate group or racist group.

Here he (or she) says, open your minds, in another post he says he only cares about Brazil. The second statement invalidates the first one. The racism here is sooo subtle that it´s taken as a given and not even noticed.

For example, one of my workers last week said something like "este moreninho não quer me dar a cadeira", trying to get a kid to give up his chair. I cringed. He called the kid "this little blackie".......but what´s worse is the way that the poor who have recently gotten a leg up by getting some education or a job, treat those who are still dirt poor.

If you are interested in black history, google the word Pitimandeua. It´s a colony of descendents of Africans who set up a tribal sytem of living with an elected chief and everything, they set the community up after slavery was abolished in 1888. When I first went out there in about 1972, they were unknown, isolated and largely independent, but now have certain goverment services, for better or worse. A friend of mine was farming near there, really the only non-tribal guy they trusted....I just went along for the ride, went back a few times doing the 4x4 bit. Haven´t been back in a long time....

if he wants to be heard. I'm brasilian too and I agree intirely with him.
Ok, we have race problems. But do you think that the american racial politics is the answer?
One think americans must understand is that THE LAST THING A BRASILIAN THINKS WHEN MEET SOMEONE IS WHAT RACE OR RELIGION HE IS!
That's a fact about Brasil, whednever you like it or not!
If someone starts to get a little obssessed about race or, questioning other's people race, people will say: What's wrong with him? Is he OK?
Brasilians are not used to be concerned about issues like race or religion, and that's something I identifyed myself with A Brasilian when he said that got shocked with that american habit.I got shocked when he said that there was even a term for interracial relationships!
I'm not saying this is good or bad, It's just another cultural shock for me.
But what I really believe is that no way the american way of dealling with racial problems could take place in Brasil. People just would not take it serious! For the simple reason that brasilians classifies all the diferent influences, that already took place in the brasilian culture as BRASILIAN! Unlike the americans, that don't have an american culture, but a black, english, italian, irish, french,etc culture.
I believe that the solution for racial problems is not tagging the people even more, and that's a gaúcho speaking (Brasilians will understand).

Thanks for reading

Gaucho isn't that a label cowboy? It is a good one though, right? lol

No, Gaúcho as used above means someone from the state of Rio Grande do Sul. They talk funny. Use terms like "barbaridade!". Nice people. Always seen sipping tea from a small round container. They do have lots of cattle, tho.

I love listening to Gaúchos tring to communicate with the people out in the jungle, really ex-tribal people who speak a mixture of portuguese and the language of their ancestors. It´s a riot. Neither thinks the other speaks Portuguese.

The Gaúchos are unaffected, hospitable and helpful. I doubt if a single one of the Brazilians on this blog who have the really bad attitudes are Gaúchos.

Gaucho isn't that a label cowboy?

Your ignorance in everything concerning Brazil is incredible. And you still want to discuss about the so called "problems" it has.

http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/3542/33

I have an idea. I supported my arguments better than you have. Knowing what a "Gaucho" is doesn't hinder my ability to assess a problem of a country. I think the majority would find your arguments ignorant and backwards. You are not yet civilized and Brazil needs to progress. You need to as well.

Isn't "Gaucho" a label. Why tag people? Isn't a Brazilian a Brazilian?

Gauchos : i figured it was more common to Argentina.
Your genetic superiors.

Isn't "Gaucho" a label. Why tag people? Isn't a Brazilian a Brazilian?

Hahahahaha, Gaúcho is as much as a label as Paulista is for someone born in São Paulo and Carioca is for someone born in Rio.

You didn't support anything or any argument, you just repeated the same lame talk as of black racists around the world, especially from the US. I told all of you the many shocks for a brazilian when meeting the "american racially segregated culture", and the same applies for Canada. You had no answer to that, just ignored it and continued repeating the same lame talk.

Gauchos : i figured it was more common to Argentina.
Your genetic superiors.

If anyone here needed any other evidence of the low level of these racists that come to this forum, this is the one.

You have issues with yourself and the society you live in, please sort them out and spare us from your complexions.

A brazilian

Do you actually know that I am black? Why tag me like that? I thought you didn't see race.

"Gauchos : i figured it was more common to Argentina.
Your genetic superiors. "
This was a joke and if I were a "Black Racist" why would I feel Argentina( with a much smaller black population" genetically superior. I understand your type of thinking more than you understand mine. I think you are trying to "tag" me , like the nazis, as a black racist without really knowing my background. Canada is not racially segregated.

I would like you to answer this question. What is a Gaucho? , in your opinion. I have heard the term before you mentioned and have never though my knowledge of it made me any better of a person.

I understand your type of thinking more than you understand mine. I think you are trying to "tag" me , like the nazis, as a black racist without really knowing my background.

In the previous text I called you only "racist", not "black racist". And other people in this forum identified themselves as being black, so if I used "black racists" in other comments it was because of it.

Canada is not racially segregated.

Oh really? Then why does it have such a strict line between races? Wouldn't everyone look more mixed if it were not segregated?

I don't recall if it was you or other person that posted here about italians and portuguese not being considered white, on the grounds that they "mixed through the centuries with africans and arabs". If that's not racist I don't know what it is, you simply demonstrated that you believe in racial purity and take it very seriously.

In Brazil "Gaúcho" is someone born in Rio Grande do Sul, ANYONE. If you heard this term for other countries then it has a different meaning, in Brazil everyone born in Rio Grande do Sul is Gaúcho the same way everyone born in São Paulo is Paulista

don't recall if it was you or other person that posted here about italians and portuguese not being considered white, on the grounds that they "mixed through the centuries with africans and arabs". If that's not racist I don't know what it is, you simply demonstrated that you believe in racial purity and take it very seriously.

Canada only has 30 million people. Majority population in Ontario. Most of the Canadian Provinces are British, French or Native Indian. Cities like Toronto are changing overnight. More people are most likely born in another country. I live amonst Iranians, Chinese, East Indians, West Indians, Hatians, Kenyans, Vietnamese,Portuguese, Italian, Sri Lankin, Fillipinos, Japanese, Tawain, Armenians, Jews, Syrians, people from Jordan, Jamaicans, Trinidadians, Guyaanese, Tamils, Colombian, Equador and all in fairly big numbers. Most are not born in Canada and have come here recently. It is hard to racially segreate such a large amount of people by race. They are generally newcomers and discriminated in a subtle way. There is some mixing between the groups and there are no hatred amonst the groups yet. The rest of Canada with the exceptions of a couple of provinces are sparsely populated.

If it is a fact, is it racist? Some of the Southern Italians do have african blood. I don't pass any judgement on them being black or white but the fact is that many of them are mixed. In North Amercian Society some may not consider them white. This is a fact. The funny thing is that all mankind is derived from mother africa. I guess who is "black" or who is "white" is really determined by how recent you ancestry from Africa is. I understand that most people of today are mixed and the idea of "race" may be outdated. The only problem is that this is the way most people see the world. The past shapes the present. Even if the concept is wrong the fact that so many people believe in the idea of race and the effect it has had on the world ,to deny the the concept still exists in the mind of people is denial. The racial hierarchy of the past has an effect on many countries in the world. In Africa the people are not all alike either. West African, East Africa have different genetic make ups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaucho
Here is the wikepedia definition of Gaucho. I guess it differes from country to country.

Here is the wikepedia definition of Gaucho. I guess it differes from country to country.

Yes, it does. It has nothing to do with "pride of one's origins" in Brazil, it's used for all dwellers of Rio Grande do Sul.

What I was tring to say when I said "and that's a gaúcho speaking" is that that gaúchos, for their german, north italians later colonization tend to think a little bit more like americans on racial problems. The gaúchos, specially from the interior of the state (small cities where german and italians speak their homeland languages untill they get into school) tend to be more aware of their race than the rest of Brasil. THAT the brasilians would understand, given what I said.

And I want to ask the americans to stop running from the topic with rethoric and argumentation technics that only make people feel lost about the real issue on this topic.

Don´t forget the Polish. Lots of Poles in Curitiba.

My retarded friend! How are you doing written by a brazilian. You still haven't answered my questions. You are still speaking on information you know nothing about. You know nothing about slavetrade-You do not even know the difference between brazil's slave system in comparison to America's slave system.You arguments are primitive, so I think you should shut up. You lack the knowledge it takes in order to have a resonable debate.

The real issue is whether racism exists in Brazil and whether Blacks are at a disadvantage to Whites.Another issue is where mixed people fall into the social structure of Brazil and if they as are at a diadvantage due to their African ancestry. I understand that " A Brazilian" feels that racial segregation is wrong and we should not try to lump people in simple categories. That is an admirable ideal. I believe "A Brazilian" feels that Brazilians just do not see racce. From my personal experience this does not seem to be true.(Today) The reality is that Portugal and Brazil has a history of exploitation of what we know as "Blacks" and that it affects still linger today even though there was alot of interacial marriage. Is it right to "categorize" people in this day and age? NO. Were they categorized in the past?YES Does is affect Brazil social structure today. YES.

I know you may feel offended that an American or some person should not comment or could understand the problems in Brazil. They are social issues that exist in almost every Western Country, African and parts of Europe. I have roots in South America and i am part Portuguese ( most likely from Brazil via Portugal). I honestly believe I can offer some sort of perspective.

I don't think we can deny that race was a factor in the past. I don't really think we can deny it has had an affect on the social structure of Brazil today. I don't think it is unique to America.

Where do the mixed people fall into the whole social structure. That is the main question? I don't think there is an answer.
I think the categorization of the whole U.S.A. society although negative was a much easier time for civil rights activists. You could fight against the legislation. Jim Crow ect.
There is a saying that in American society they will tell you how you feel and their racial bias is out in the open. In other countries it is not so easy to see. It is invisible but people know it is there.

Racial stereotypes. More blatant in Brazil, or in the USA? It would be a good subject for a serious paper, and I would start by comparing Brazilian and American television shows. Sitcoms, humor, "novelas". Look at the homeowners, the moguls of industry, the rich kids; and then the maids, the service people, the workers, the perps. Log it all and report on the apparent races of those who the respective casting departments hire to play the roles.

I disagree with ric I don't see much advertisement in America with blacks also. And America has a considerable black community. I don't have the knowledge about other country with as big population of black people, I could only name African countries. I think much of the brazilian media tries to portray reality, so it is reality for Brazilians to have blacks in lower positions in society so that is why even blacks don't reject it. In fashion, black beauties gain room though. Maybe many poor families do not have the information on where to take their kids or where to apply for an advertisement job? Anyway, what really stands out to me is how some black Americans are so obsessed with colors, or even don't like to be labeled as blacks. It reminds me Michael Jackson and his need to become white. I think black people should be proud as they say here Black is Beautiful. Why not? I am non-white, I'm latina. I Never had a problem with that, latino people I know don't even bother with this type of thinking.

I am not sure if Ric made a conclusion? He posed a question though.

I actually think there are more blacks in the media in America. Most major news stations. TV shows galore. Music video. Movies.

written by Igapó and written by jabmalassie, you guys are pretty smart.

The fact that there are more blacks in US media than in Brazil's does not mean there's more racism in Brazil, I suppose. People in America have more educational opportunities than people in Brazil in general. Being a criative artist also includes being knowledgeable, don't you think?

I am sorry if I have to say this Jabmalassie and Ake, but I disagree specially with your views. I think people from North America, where the majority of people in this thread are from, I suppose, and Jabmalassie is from Canada, adopt their cultural views and apply them to everywhere else. Well, good luck for you with that.

It is even funny read what I wrote that I am a non-white. I have Spanish appearance, although my descendants are Latin American, so my skin color is light colored besides I have it tanned. I just wrote I am a “non white” to use your skin color code system because I actually have interest in distinguish myself from the “white” North America inhabitants.

I do think some people from North America are obsessed with skin color. It is a cultural difference for me that was born and raised in Brazil. I also think that difficulties of ideology I have had here in this website has this feature: North America, and the first world in general, lookout distinguishes from my personal lookout. People told me here, “you are making it a Brazil-America problem”. The fact is if you are so race conscious why aren’t you as conscious of your own culture/ideology too?

I just wrote I am a “non white” to use your skin color code system because I actually have interest in distinguish myself from the “white” North America inhabitants

Hahaha. cool.

I do think some people from North America are obsessed with skin color.

I have to agree with you, what I love about Brazil is walking around and not hearing people calling themselves this or that. The only exceptions are germans and italians in the south, but even then it's not as in the North America, all of those people I have met are nice and I had some mestizo friends that moved there and had only good experiences to talk about.

It's really a shame these international hate groups promoting "racial conscience" in Brazil, but let's see what happens.

Another funny note, I agree with Janer Cristaldo about the comparison with communists. It seems the people most eager about promoting this crap are communist parties. The other day I saw a TV show interviewing a black girl "Do you think there's racism in Brazil?" and she said something like: "I think this is not excuse for blacks not fighting and improving themselves through study..." the guy interrupted her and vehemently said "YES, THERE IS RACISM IN BRAZIL!". HAHAHAHAHA Even the blacks themselves don't see it!!

Let's relax and watch their failure.

Thanks Brazilian. I do not mean disrespect to anyone as I understand you don’t mean it too. What crosses my mind is a high race conscious opposed to a low cultural conscious. How can an American person be that acidly critic of Brazil’s race mindset when they come from a much more oppressive society still nowadays regarding races? I cannot tell about Canada though cause I lack information on it, but from what a brazilian said it is not that different. Are North America people aplying their mentality and fitting it into Brazil’s (not sure if this is well written)? Another observation is: I’ve read a long time ago an article from an UK magazine about the mixed generation, how they are growing in number, the mixed celebrities etc. The mixed people interviewed liked to define themselves as mixed, neither black nor caucation because that’s what they are they stated. A blood portion is white the other is black, asian, hispanic, from mars and there it goes. I think this is being fair with both descendants I think.

Well, yes, it is important to not be manipulated by anyone.

Yes, it is. Two projects that could help keep blacks from being manipulated or [menosprezado]; fight the takeover by wealthy interests, of the open land near Parchester Village; change the name of David Starr Jordan High School on Atlantic in North Long Beach.

Do you think there's racism in Brazil?" and she said something like: "I think this is not excuse for blacks not fighting and improving themselves through study

She didn't answer the question.
This is a women on the street who is black and saying they should improve themselves with study. I agree they should improve themselves with study. It doesn't really answer the question.


" am sorry if I have to say this Jabmalassie and Ake, but I disagree specially with your views YOU adopt their cultural views and apply them to everywhere else."
I am not sure what you disagree with. I think I have mostly stated fact. I have not applied my cultureal views to everywhere else. I think you would like to say that Racism does not exist in Brazil and they do not see color. This is not my experience when talking to Brazilians. I see that they do see race. In Canada(where I am from) I have met many people from all over the world. We don't have a major black/white issue, we have many different cultures. Face the fact the Portuguese brought slaves to Brazil to work sugar plantations. They were AFRICAN and it was against their will. It has some effect on the society of TODAY.

You cannot disagree that Brazil has a history of Racism. It still lingers TODAY.

RACISM IS NOT JUST NORTH AMERICAN

If you don't know what my culture is and you don't know much about Canada how can you say that I am taking my cultural views and applying it to the world.
WHAT IS MY CULTURE?

I think it is ok if a mixed person wants to say they are mixed. What is your opinion on the mixed person who wants to classify themselves as white. If Brazilians don't see race why would someone who is obviously mixed want to call themselves white. I think in the U.S.A. many people who are mixed call themelves Black which may not be any more right .

I agree, I´m off to Manaus to attend a meeting at which will include some Canadians, when I went to U. of Toronto, including a few classes in The Old Vic, there were 40,000 Portuguese in the city, and many ethnic groups, I sensed that Canadians are open minded and tolerant, similar to some pasrt of the Commonwealth in the islands....

If you don't know what my culture is and you don't know much about Canada how can you say that I am taking my cultural views and applying it to the world.

What about your lengthy ramblings on "who's white and who's not" like "italians aren't white, portuguese aren't white, etc"? If everything you told is truth then Canada is more racist then the US.

Besides that I have talked to people that lived in Canada, and that country follows the same anglo-saxon mentality towards race. You like to believe you are multicultural society, any brazilian would laugh hard over that affirmation.

If you see race then YOU ARE RACIST.

I think it is ok if a mixed person wants to say they are mixed. What is your opinion on the mixed person who wants to classify themselves as white

What difference does it make? I think this only proves the color-blindness. The only people I hear making a big fuss out of it are americans and canadians, it seems that skin color are very important to them to be "misclassified" this way.

People don't use such things as a way of having privileges or as a "pride badge" to be exhibitted to everyone. As a matter of fact, talking about race is not well regarded here, people will look you down as if you were a thief if you touch this subject, no matter what color you are talking about.

I won't even mention Europe because they are hopeless. Just leave them there.

The two most prosperous populations of blacks in the world are black americans and South African blacks--both of whom came from societies where the racism was open, brutal and in your face. This was not the only reason the blacks in these countries are better off today, but it is a factor.

The stealth racism of Latin America has held back that region's nonwhites for 500 years "A Brazilian." People are not stupid; if Brazilian blacks and pardos continue to see other blacks progressing while they are not, they will continue to question and see the racial democracy concept for the farce it is. I say this as a black american "Nazi" who would much rather live in a society where the racism is acknowledged and dealt with than denied. Please, no more we are all one Brazilian race nonsense. One race with good(European) looks and bad(African or Native) looks that is.

What about your lengthy ramblings on "who's white and who's not" like "italians aren't white, portuguese aren't white, etc"? If everything you told is truth then Canada is more racist then the US.

No ramblings about "who is white and who is not". The government of Canada does not "officially recognize" that some Italians and Portuguese have African blood.
I think you are confused about what I am saying. There are some people in Canada who don't really see Italians as "White". I don't think that they see them in a negative light because of this today. They might have in the past.
I agree that North America was a racist place but I will also agree that Brazil was also. They still can be today. Canada is known as being a very liberal place to immigrants. I really don't think you know much about Canada. The black population in Canada would be about as large as Sweedens if it were not for immigration in the lasst 30 years. They don't have a long history of slavery and discrimination against blacks. The major issue in Canada is between the French,the English and the Native Indians. 30 million is not a large population for a country bigger than the U.S.A. Why would you make a conclusion the Canada is more racist than the U.S.A. based on a conversation with me and some people that visited.


If you don't see color why should it bother you that mixed brazilians are categorized as black it doesn't seem to bother you if they are categorized as white. Double standard.


You may not agree and these are not my words but this is what I found
Following emancipation, Brazilians were left searching for a new paradigm of European supremacy to replace slavery. While many politicians and thinkers proposed scientific racism, with binary segregation, Brazil inevitably returned to mestiçagem. Scholars saw the amalgamation of race through the process of whitening to be the solution for issues of race in Brazil (Kraay, 1998, p. 16). Within the new racial spectrum pardos (people of mixed race) typically receive a higher social status than pretos (descendants of Africans). The abandonment of formal racial discrimination gave a handful of pardos the opportunity to rise into the social elite by rejecting their racial identity. Rarely do the handfuls of upper-class mulattos identify themselves as anything other than white, having utilized the "mulatto escape hatch." Many modern historians see these individuals as "tormented figures forced to deny or reject their racial identity to participate in white upper-class society." With the ascension of a handful of non-whites into the predominantly white upper class, Brazilian aristocrats are able to maintain that their country is a "racial democracy" (Kraay, 1998, p. 1.

People are not stupid; if Brazilian blacks and pardos continue to see other blacks progressing while they are not, they will continue to question and see the racial democracy concept for the farce it is.

You are really a joke. Many people talking in here have identified themselves as nonwhite, and they are telling you there's no racism. Who do you think you are to speak in the brazilians name when brazilians themselves tell otherwise? Forget it, get yourself another country to mess up. Go finish with Iraq or Afeghanistan and leave us alone.

The only measure to progress is willingness to work, so bad not everyone has it. If many of those people gave more importance to work than they do for beer and women then maybe they would progress.

One race with good(European) looks and bad(African or Native) looks that is.

If "good" and "bad" looks refer solely to appearance then this is a matter of taste.

The abandonment of formal racial discrimination gave a handful of pardos the opportunity to rise into the social elite by rejecting their racial identity.

Whose racial indentity? Why don't you give up playing identities (just like the Nazi did) at once and just be yourself? I am so happy I live in Brazil and I don't need to worry about such things.

I won't even comment the rest. The only tormented people are the bitter ones that come here to "spread the truth". I have never met a single brazilian worried if he is white enough or not, nor seen anything on TV or anywhere else. People are just natural.

The level of ignorance displayed in here is appaling.

Attacking the person and not the idea. Good stuff!!

I sense outrage at being labelled Black. I don't sense that outrage at being labelled white!

I also want to say that many foreigners want to go to Brazil because they feel it is some sort of racial democracy. I thought so. I then heard the opinions and attitudes of people I met here. I started to research the history ect. and felt that Brazil has alot of similiarities to the U.S.A. I really felt the people there didn't see race. WOW WAS I WRONG!!!

I can't tell you why people would want to come to Brasil, but I can tell you that I wouldn't want to move to either Canada and the US for both things seen here and that I saw myself when there.

You are racists. period. You can't live without labeling yourselves and others with your little scheme of colors. Good luck with that, but I pass.

"If 'good' and 'bad' looks refer soley to appearance then this is a matter of taste."

You just proved my point "A Brazilian." It is a matter of "taste" that people I marry, do business with, put on television and magazines, allow into my neighborhood and clubs, vote to put into elective office, choose to date and even the little child of mine that I prefer all have "good" European looks. I am just glad to see Brazilians of all races are seen equally. Yes I know the U.S. and every other country has these problems too, but they acknowledge there is a problem. Brazilians and light-skinned Latin Americans do not. And Jabmalassie you are doing a great job arguing the points I would be arguing, so keep up the good work.

Also "A Brazilian" what pretos and Pardos are you talking to? Do they all really tell you they do not see any racism in Brazil? Six months ago I met a light-skinned Brazilian woman in my office and she was the one who brought up the topic of race--not me. She was mad because she had an experience with a white woman at a government agency (in the U.S) who told her she should classify herself as "Hispanic" (which usually means non-white) in the U.S.as opposed to white. Yet she also told me that when she lived in South Brazil the locals gave her a nickname that meant "dark woman." Brazilians always know how important it is to be classified as white or as close to white as possible, and since this is obvious why is it so? Because their country is racist. As a black nazi, even I can see that.

I don't like beer but I love women too. President George W. Bush likes drinking, Bill Clinton loves women. When you are a white man you can drink and chase women and become President of the United States. When you are black or mixed race and do these things, people say it is the reason you are not successful. That is a double standard and proof of racism. I tell you what "A Brazilian,"
go out, find a beautiful mulatta, have great sex with her and then she will tell you about all of the racism she faces. Then, you can tell us all about what you have learned.

When you are black or mixed race and do these things, people say it is the reason you are not successful.

When you are rich you can do whatever you want anywhere. When you live under the bridge and you are not struggling to get out of there then this is a sign that your priorities aren't right, because your FIRST and MOST IMPORTANT priority would be to improve.

This a simple logic.

What's your point? Every man should have their days of "drink and dance"?

I tell you what I see, even in my own family with some distant cousins. They live in s**t and they seem to like to live in s**t. It's hopeless to help them because they don't help themselves.

I tell you what "A Brazilian," go out, find a beautiful mulatta, have great sex with her and then she will tell you about all of the racism she faces.

I have met some already, and no, no racism. Just give up. You talk of people you haven't ever met and things you don't even know. You like to live in your own fantasy black-world.

It is a matter of "taste" that people I marry, do business with, put on television and magazines, allow into my neighborhood and clubs, vote to put into elective office, choose to date and even the little child of mine that I prefer all have "good" European looks.

It's a matter of taste for the people you live with, after all you will find ugly people anywhere. For the society in general this is not applicable, and it's not today in Brazil.

Also "A Brazilian" what pretos and Pardos are you talking to?

The ones that come to this forum and tell clueless americans like you that you are talking s**t.

Do they all really tell you they do not see any racism in Brazil?

Oh yes, see the thread.

She was mad because she had an experience with a white woman at a government agency (in the U.S) who told her she should classify herself as "Hispanic" (which usually means non-white) in the U.S.as opposed to white.

I can tell you any brazilian would be offended with it (including me), in this case because americans are clueless. "Hispanic" is not a race and it's related solely with people with spanish ancestors and whose culture has borrowed from them.

Historian, you might not know, but Brazil was colonized by the portuguese and EVERYONE here speaks portuguese. This is reason enough to outrage.

About being white instead, that's meaningless and proves nothing. She could call herself "green", that would make no difference.

Yet she also told me that when she lived in South Brazil the locals gave her a nickname that meant "dark woman."

Yes, this has nothing to do with racism. We call black people "german", blonde people "preto", japanese people "Japa", and so on. There are lots of nicknames like those.

It's nice though you point it out, because "preto" is often used by some women to call their boyfriend. (!) What does it prove? That people "love blacks"? In my opinion it proves nothing, as the pile of nonsense you have put in here.

Words change its meaning over time, you should know that, "historian".

I actually know quite a few things about Brazil "A Brazilian." I may not be an expert but I know more than the average American.

I know that you were colonized by Portugal, and not Spain for 300 years until the 1820's. I know you were the last country in the world to abolish slavery in 1888. I know that for decades your government had a "Whitening" philosphy and hoped their black and mulatto population would eventually disappear. I know that quite a few brazilians were upset with the Academy Award winning 1959 film "Black Orpheus" and probably because the cast was all black. I know that whereas most of the blacks of the U.S. live in the Southern part of the country, in Brazil the reverse is true: most of your blacks and pardos live in the Northeast and most of your whites live in the South. I know about your rivalry with and dislike of Argentina--another country that is not as white as they want you to believe. I know that Brazil has the largest economy in South American but it could be larger. And why isn't it; the most important factors are your poor educational system and government corruption. I have heard of such Brazilian performers as Sergio Mendes, Camila Pitanga, Tais Araujo, Malu Mader, Claudia Abreu, Giselle Bundchen, Adriana Lima, Sonia Braga and her niece Alice who starred in the movie "City of God." I have also seen about ten episodes here in the U.S. of the television series "City of Men" where the blacks and pardos on that show repeatedly encounter racism.

I know that while Brazil claims over 50% of it's population is "white" that in reality the black and mixed race population are probably the majority. And yes, we all have relatives who may not work as hard as they could but if you are black and do not work hard you are poor. If you are white and do not work hard you can be poor, middle class and sometimes rich.

I know that very few black women are selected as models or win beauty contests in Brazil even though blacks and pardos are at least 50% of your population. Yet in the U.S. we blacks are only 12% of the population and we have had at least 5 black Miss Americas since 1983 when Vanessa Williams first won. We are only 12% of the population and have had two Secretaries of State, several Presidential candidates, and have a relatively high profile in other areas (the largest Wall Street Brokerage Firm, the largest media company--Time Warner-- and MTV are all headed by U.S. blacks) Why don't more blacks in Brazil--besides soccer players have a high profile when they are at least half of the population? You know the answer as to why they do not. In the past in the U.S. the same excuse was offered as to why more blacks in the U.S. were not successful--they did not want to work hard.

And yes, I know Lula is a trade unionist who ran for President several times before he won. He may not be doing alot for the country's blacks, but he seems to be doing more than any other Brazilian President. Oh, and yes I know, Brazil was under a military dictatorship from about 1964 to 1985--the period when blacks in the U.S. began to make big gains. But blacks in Brazil were prevented from doing so because the dictatorship would not allow such protests. Improve your education system, clamp down on corruption and directly address racism. That is the solution. You and Janer are no help in dealing with the last issue of racism and if you succeed Brazil will always be the country of the future--and nothing else. I suggest you talk to those distant black and mixed race relatives of yours--you could learn more from them than you want to admit.

I also know that brazilians get very upset when an outsider criticizes their country like you "A Brazilian." But for your own good listen to the criticism. Remember, the Greeks said the most fatal human flaw is having too much pride and you exhibit a bit too much my brother.

Why don't more blacks in Brazil--besides soccer players have a high profile when they are at least half of the population?

You are contradicting yourself. First you say that " that in reality the black and mixed race population are probably the majority" then you say they have "no space", how come? If those "deluded brazilians" aren't really white then negros and pardos are everywhere!!

As for the City of God and City of Men, don't take that as a portrait of Brazil. It would be like taking "Beverly Hills 90210" as the perfect example of the US. That's a bad-things-sell kind of movie, that intends to portray how a certain region of Rio de Janeiro (and Rio is by no means representative of the entire country).

Your comment about Argentinians ia hilarious!! Americans like so much to point and say who's white is who's not, by that you take how important that is to their society.

I know that very few black women are selected as models or win beauty contests in Brazil even though blacks and pardos are at least 50% of your population

How do you know that?

You and Janer are no help in dealing with the last issue of racism and if you succeed Brazil will always be the country of the future--and nothing else.

I am defending my country from this illness. I never bothered about it but after seeing some much eagerness from international hate groups in implementing a racially segregated society in Brazil I have no choice. This culture is unique, there's nothing like it in the whole world, and there won't be if it's up to the americans.

Improve your education system, clamp down on corruption and directly address racism. That is the solution.

Wow, you have never been to Brazil and already solved all our problems!!

You should run for president!! I don't know if the law allows that, but we were waiting for a savior with all the answers for so long, I am sure people would like to arrange things for making it happen!!

Hahaha.

I suggest you talk to those distant black and mixed race relatives of yours--you could learn more from them than you want to admit.

I know more than I would like to.

BTW, your comment about people being pissed off because that movie had only blacks. Hahaha. Well, it was the 50s AND americans like to think of Brazil as some african country, this is a fact, so probably that was the cause. Ignoring all the diversity this country has it's not right, even if it's for the benefit of blacks.

"international hate groups in implementing a racially segregated society in Brazil I have no choice."

Who are these international hate groups? Do they really want a racially segregated society in Brazil?
I am willing to accept certain international criticism of my country if I feel it is justified. "A Brazilian" doesn't feel the criticism is justified.

Who are these international hate groups?

International black movements and actvists.

Do they really want a racially segregated society in Brazil?

Yes, they do.

Several more points A Brazilian. All people with visible amounts of African ancestry, the people the U.S. and Northern European countries call "Black" face different degrees of discrimination. I am a light-skinned black man who would not be called black in Brazil and have faced less discrimination over the course of my life than other blacks in this country. So have my parents, who are both lighter skinned. So if some pretos or pardos are telling you they face little to no discrimination, they either will not admit to themselves when they are being discriminated against; do not know what discrimination is; or simply may not want to tell you because they are too ashamed to admit it. But believe me, they are facing discrimination.

Most experts in Latin America will tell you the number of "whites" in their societies are inflated because it is better to be white. What is my definition of "White." If you have the physical appearance of most of the political and economic elites of the United States, Canada, Northern Europe and Australia then you are the whitest of white. Anything less means you may not be black, but you are not the whitest of white.

You're comments about "Black Orpheus" are revealing. Why does a movie with an all black brazilian cast irritate you? How may Brazilian movies and T.V. shows have virtually all "white" casts yet this does not bother you? My feeling is you probably did not like the most recent hip hop version of this movie "Orfeu" which was made a few years ago. You probably hated the Snoop Dogg video "Beautiful" because it mostly highlighted mulattas. You imply that your blacks and pardos should be hidden from the rest of the world--completely in line with the old "Whitening" philosophy.

The groups you site are not "hate" groups at all. And none that I am aware of have ever advocated separation of the races. Many whites in this world prefer de facto separation of the races, so I think you are projecting their twisted philosophy on to me and other supporters of black progress.
Almost every society with large white and black settler populations is segregated. And who's fault is that the blacks? No, it is whites who want it that way.

No, I am not running for President but simply stating simple facts. In today's world, show me a society that has a good school system and educated population and I will show you a society that functions better than less educated communities. Too many Brazilians are poor and part of the reason they are is because of their race and poor education system. The answer is clear: more educated and prosperous blacks and pardos or the country will continue to underperform.

Ask any expert on the Brazilian economy and they will mention education, corruption and yes racism as being drags on the country's economic performance.

If you and others think the answer to these truths is to hurl invective at people like me by calling us nazis and haters, your problems will continue. And Brazilian women do look great, and not only the white ladies but the nonwhite women too.

So here's to alleviating Brazil's inferiority complex.

International black movements and actvists.

Who? What are the names of these groups?
What proof do you have that they want segregation.

they either will not admit to themselves when they are being discriminated against; do not know what discrimination is; or simply may not want to tell you because they are too ashamed to admit it. But believe me, they are facing discrimination.

How can you tell that?

You're comments about "Black Orpheus" are revealing. Why does a movie with an all black brazilian cast irritate you? How may Brazilian movies and T.V. shows have virtually all "white" casts yet this does not bother you?

Not me, but the people in the 50s. And it's a fact that americans LOVE to point fingers at every non-american and tell them they aren't white, either whites or blacks. I can only assume that portraying Brazil as an African country, ignoring everyone else, would fit perfectly in this mentality.

What "all white" casts you are talking about? Name it. You are contradicting yourself, you say that the numbers of white are "inflated" and many of the so called "whites" wouldn't be whites in the US, BUT then you say that TV only shows whites. Following your logic "blacks and pardos" are everywhere!!

If you have the physical appearance of most of the political and economic elites of the United States, Canada, Northern Europe and Australia then you are the whitest of white. Anything less means you may not be black, but you are not the whitest of white

I don't really need a lecture in your dysfunctional society. But I can notice their power is so great that even blacks advertise it and promote this vision of the world! Amazing.

The groups you site are not "hate" groups at all. And none that I am aware of have ever advocated separation of the races.

How do you call the demonization of other ethnic groups and labeling of people? How do you call the drawing of a line dividing a country in two: the oppressors and the oppressed, the white and the black?

This rethoric and these tactics are no different that those of nazi groups advertising conspiracies against the "white men" from jews, hispanics and blacks.

Too many Brazilians are poor and part of the reason they are is because of their race and poor education system.

What are you talking about? How do you know it is because of their race? So there are different schools for whites and blacks?

Ask any expert on the Brazilian economy and they will mention education, corruption and yes racism as being drags on the country's economic performance.

Like the "experts" that come to this site?

And Brazilian women do look great, and not only the white ladies but the nonwhite women too.

You are right about that, BUT I NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. I don't know how white people with their flat asses can be a measure for beauty anywhere, only in you dysfunctional society!!

You should stop watching these "Brazil for gringos" kind of movies, they will only show mulattas shaking asses, one of the trademaks of sexual tourism. Attracting losers from all over the world.

I would rather see zero dollars from tourism and billions in research and development of technologies.

No one cares what you would like to see or not like to see. And after all the talk about "falemos Português", why are you writing in English and talking about dollars instead of Reais?

Ric, what part of my text bothered you? The part I mention "losers from all over the world" or another part? It would benefical for this country if they stopped trying to please every little sick gringo looking for trannies and some sex and started worrying about technologies and research. That's where the money is.

You generalize too much. Write carelessly. To be taken seriously, one has to avoid terms like Always, Never, All, None, unless there is corroborating data. "American love to point fingers..." All Americans?...... "Yes, they do." Put that in a blue exam book at Berkeley and the comment will come back, "Prove it!"

In comparison to what is written in this site I think this fits it pretty well. BTW, I haven't found a single evidence "proving" any of the many (broad) affirmations made in here by americans about Brazil, so if you are willing to apply this criticism in writing I would invite you to do the same for all others, be my guest.

I wonder how much of Brazil you have actually seen first hand.....

I live here.

IF THESE GOT DAMN NEGROS WOULD QUIT RUNNING AROUND STEALING TELEVISIONS. SELLING CRACK TO TWELVE YEAR OLDS ON THE STREET CORNER... RAPING... BEATING AND OF COURSE MY FAVORITE
SHOOTING EACHOTHER DEAD IN THE STREETS...TRANSMITTING HIV...SUCKING UP ENOUGH WELFARE CHECKS TO FEED ETIOPIANS FOR A HALF CENTURY... WHINNING AND CRYING ABOUT SLAVERY THAT THEY INFACT SIGNED UP FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE.... TRILLIONS OF DOLLERS ANNUALLY JUST TO TEACH THE f**kERS HOW TO READ...WHEN IN FACT MOST DROP OUT OF FREAKIN 5TH GRADE WITH A DEGREE IN EBONICS.. TURNING TO GANGS BY THE PATHETIC AGE OF 9....SLANGIN WEED ON A BMX BIKE IN THE HOOD...ITS NO WONDER THEY REPRESENT TWO THIRDS OF THE PRISON SYSTEM BY THE AGE OF 17... AND THEN THEY BLAME WHITE PEOPLE FOR THERE OWN STUPIDITY....THE LIST GOS ON FOREVER...BOTTOMLINE GROW THE f**k UP PEOPLE... ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL... THE SOONER THE HUMAN RACE GETS ITS ACT TOGETHER THE SOONER WE CAN SET ARE SIGHTS ON SPACE....BY THE WAY FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DISAGREE WITH ME... I REALLY DONT GIVE A s**t... IM TIRED OF WATCHING PEOPLE RIP THIS NATION TO s**t...BY THE WAY IM NOT RACIST I HATE EVERY f**kIN LAST ONE OF YOU EQUALLY...IM 100% PERCENT IRISH BELIEVE THAT MY FAMILY ESCAPED THE SLAVERY IN THE NORTH IN 1896... ARRIVED AT ELLIS AND BECAME AMERICANS SEVERALL MEMBERS OF MY FAMILY PERISHED ON THE WAY WEST...SETTLING IN SAN FRANCISCO BY 1903... JUST IN TIME TO WATCH THE CITY CRUMBLE TO THE GROUND IN 1906....MY ENTIRE FAMILY BECAME MASONS OF THE PRESIDIO AND WORKED DAY AND NIGHT FOR 11 YEARS.. TWO RELATIVES SURVIVED THE INFLUENZA OF 1918 AND LIVED ON TO KEEP THE PURE BLOODLINES TO THIS DAY...ANYWAYS THE MORAL TO THE STORY IS... SINCE THE FIRST RECORDED CITY STATES IN 5600 BC.... MAN HAS LIVED BY THE SWORD... BLOODSHED..
WARS ...SLAVERY... NARMER FOUNDED EGYPT IN 3100 BC. THUS THE FIRST EMPIRE WAS BORN....1200 BC THE GREEKS PLUNGED THE KNOWN WORLD IN TO THE FIRST DARK AGES.... IT WAS NOT UNTIL ROME AND THE PHALANX TACTICS OF COMBAT...FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OUR HISTORY.. AN EMPIRE TURNED ITS BLADES ON EACHOTHER...AND SO ON TILL THE PRESENT DAY AS I SIT HERE NOW...
I HAVE SEEN NO CHANGE IN HUMAN BEHAVIOR..TEN THOUSEND AND SEVEN YEARS AFTER WE FIGURED OUT THAT RIVERS PROVIDE LIFE FOR AGRICULTURE TO BE DEVELOPED HERE WE SIT TODAY AT THE BRINK OF THE A REAL WORLD WAR...AT THE TRUE EGDE OF THE KNIFE.. STEP OUTSIDE OF THE SIMPLE LIVES YOU LEAD.. AND LOOK BACK ... YOU MAY REALIZE THAT WERE ALL ONE RACE .....

colonol zander kilpatrick. United States Marine Corp

my whole life lead me here.. this thought has passed through the mind of every man woman and child..alike... the jet lag from the god damn c-5 turbo props on the way in made it possible for me to stumble accross this blog..... AN ENTIRE COMMAND HAS BEEN PUT IN MY HANDS GENTLEMEN A RUTHLESS BAND OF SIX THOUSAND OF HELLS DIRT DOGS ....IF YOUR A DEVIL DOG READING THIS....
SEMPER f**kING FI......



I AM READY TO WALK THROUGH THE VALLEY OF THE SHADOW OF DEATH...BECAUSE I AM THE SHADOW KNOWN AS DEATH AND YOU ARE IN MY VALLEY...

MY MEN DIE WITH ME.. WHERE WILL YOU BE WHEN ON THE DAY OF RECKONING ... MORE IMPORTANT WHO WILL STAND BY YOUR SIDE..


REMEMBER PEOPLE FOR I WILL NEVER SPEAK TO YOU AGAIN....... ALL FOR ONE. OR ALL BECOME NONE..............

Zé Brasileiro, lots of people live here and yet don´t get around very much. Like the blind guys describing the elephant. The one at the rear thought the elephant was rather like a rope, since he had it by the tail. If you just sit in an apartment in SP, your perception of Brazil is not much better that a guy in an apartment in NY that once vacationed in Rio, but gets around via broadband. Ever actually been near the area where the Gol went down? I have. Interior of the NE? Hit all the cities from São Luis south to Santos? Vilhena? The grasslands north of Boa Vista? Ever flown from Brasilia to Cuiabá? It´s one thing to read about soybeans, another to see it. Xique Xique? Montes Claros? Pinheiros? SJ Rio Preto? Triângulo? Ever talked to people where they are, or have you gotten your impressions from U. profs who also have not been anywhere?

And the Colonel. Go back and take an outside look at that C5A and you may find it´s really a C130. Because the last time I looked in the book, never worked on one, C5As come equipped with GE TF39s. To be a turboprop it has to have propellers, which the C5A lacks. If it´s a C5A and that noisy, something´s wrong with it.

The Greeks started the first dark ages? What they invented was democracy, philosphy, the forum, the scientific method. Most of the positive things the Romans had they got from the Greeks. Except that Alexander died young and heirless. Romans got their Big Break.

Glad your forefathers helped build the Presidio. Maybe even Gorby´s old digs. New World Order HQ right there in Bagdad by the Bay. That´s what Herb Caen called it.

Sempre Fi, though, and take care....

And still, nothing prevents others from speaking of ancient Greece as if they knew it. Travelling around and doing corny tourist rides is nothing compared to the reality of living, working and walking in this country. Don't come with this talk, "I travelled more than you", that means absolutely nothing even if it were truth.

Haha, this is hilarious. My impressions come from the places I lived, or traveled to, the people from almost everywhere I have met (from north to the south, people of all places). And yours? Corny tourist rides? Have you Rio already? Hahahahaha. That s**t hole is the only place gringos know.

No tourist rides. Even though I have traveled in Brazil on occasion by airline, bus, boat, and airline, most of my travels are from thousands of hours piloting aircraft in Brazil. Where I have gone on roads it has been in Jeeps, Toyota Bandeirantes, and pickup trucks, down and dirty. I´ve seen what you´ve only read about: the army cleaning out the jungle. I´ve been on the Caravelle, ex-Cruzeiro, that first mapped the Amazon. The term effete snobs probably has no chance of being better applied than people like yourself, who call everyone north of Minas by the (meant to be derogatory) term, Baiano.....

Ric, the perfect stupid american. Wow, you know what a baiano is!? Hahahahahaha Your knowledge on all things of Brazil is really "impressive", but I am affraid it's not enough to claim to know more of it than brazilians themselves.

I don't call anybody that way, because I am not a bigot unlike some that love visiting this site.

If I am going to be stupid, glad that it´s in a perfect manner. I appreciate the comment.

And since "baiano burro nasce morto", I guess you know that I´m not a baiano. My daughter just got back from two weeks there though. I love Bahia. Do you remember the year that a miss from Bahia wone Miss Brazil, she was white, and the next year Miss Bahia was black and a number of baianos protested because they thought it hurt their chances? You can check it out but maybe not on the web, it happened a long time ago. Seriously, I think those days are over but it is true that Bahia used to be run by white elites...........

I don't remember any miss brazil at all because I have better things to do of my life and to worry about such silly things. Besides, Bahia is not Brazil.

BTW, the so called "oppressed blacks" in Bahia did something nasty one of these days. A japanese girl kind of adopted Brazil as her new country, and started making some success in carnaval, mainly because she was pretty and could dance better than many brazilians (me included). Do you know what they, the nasty baianos, did? Started spreading rumors that she was working as a prostitute, because they couldn't accept that a non-black would gain a lot of attention from the media.

Wow! Such open minded people don't you think? Hahahahaha

You can check that out on the web too. Your beloved example of oppressed people oppressing.

Oh, is that you, Janer? I would like to deny that Marx was a visionary......

Just get lost and leave me alone!

I CAN'T I HAVE READ EVERY PIECE OF SHT ON HERE. THE LEVEL OF IGNORANCE IS DESPICABLE. FIRST THINGS FIRST f**k D ONE DROP RULE HOWEVER IT WAS TOTALLY CONGRUENT WITH THE AMERICAN SYSTEM OF SLAVERY.THUS ANY ATTEMPTS TO COUNTER BIGOTRY AND EMANCIPATE SHOULD UNITE THE OPPRESSED ON THEIR VERY MARKER OF OPPRESSION. "SKIN". I HAVE LIVED IN TAUGHT IN US OF AMERICAN, LIVED IN BRAZIL ON LONG TERM VOLUNTEER PROJECT. MY EXPERIENCE IN THE US SHOWED ME AN HYPER INFATUATION WITH RACE TO THE EXTENT OF PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM ASCENDING BEYONG THE "IRON CURTAIN" OF WHAT BLACKNESS, WHITENESS, BLUENESS SHOULD ENTAIL. WITH BRAZIL ON THE CONTRARY THERE SEEMS TO AN OVER WHELMING LEVEL OF NAIVITY AND SELF DENYING RACISM, WHICH TO A BROAD HAS IMPEDED ANY ATTEMPTS TO SORT THEIR RACIAL s**t OUT. THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF RACIAL IDENTITY DOES NOT IN ANY WAY PROPOSE OR JUSTIFY RACIAL ANTAGONISM. IT IS HOWEVER A MODEST APPROACH TO REDRESS SOME HISTORICAL UNCERTAINITIES.IT HAS INSTILLED A PROFOUND HATE OF SELF, WHICH PROMPTS A PARDO TO CLASSIFY HIM/ERSELF AS WHITE OR BLACK. HAVING NOTED THE LATTER THE HISTORY OF SLAVERY CERTAINLY HAS AN IMPERATIVE IMPACT ON HOW EACH RACE OR COMPLEXION CLASSIFY THEMSELVES AND WHY. LASTLY THIS KIND OF CRAP IS ALMOST NON EXISTENT IN AFRICA WITH THE EXCEPTION OF NORTH AFRICA, REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICAN AND ZANZIBAR & MOMBASA AFRICAN WHO ASCRIBE TO THEIR IRANIAN/PERSIAN ORIGIN SIMPLY BECAUSE ANCESTORS WERE PERSIANS. WRETCHEDLY THIS FOLKS WERE REPRIMANDED WHEN THEY VISITED IRAN TO STATE THEIR CRAP. ANYWAY LETS HOPE THAT ONE DAY EVERY RACE WILL NOT ASCRIBE DIFFERENCE TWISTED NOTIONS OF INFERIORITY OR SUPERIOTY AND HUMAN SPEICES WILL EVETUALLY REALISE THAT WE HAVE MORE SIMILARITIES AS ACROSS RACIAL BOUNDARIES, PERHAPS MORE THAN WITHIN ITSELF. JANER CRISTALDO SHOULD REFRAIN FROM THINKING WITH HIS EMOTIONS, PERHAPS HE SHOULD USE HIS EMOTIONS TO THINK.LETS HOPE HE WILL NOT PRESENT A CONVOLUTED, UNRESEARCHED TEXTS, WHICH SEEMS TO BE MOTIVATED BY HIS PRECEEDING CHILDHOOD EXPERIENCE OR ENCOUNTER WITH A PRETO. I WOULD HAPPILY RECOMMEND SOME PSYCHOANALYST IN BRAZIL TO HELP HIM. BEST WISHES TO ALL HOMO SAPIENS