Brazzil

this one has beeen hashed out so many times , it is not even funny
dont look at the clean side of it on TV .
try to see how many people that built the floats and made the costum , how many of them are in the stands watching the show.
they pay stars big money to dance on there floats or out front , while they live in squalor
look deeper into the fact how many 14 year olds had to sell themselves to give money to build and maintane the floats ,
another sex and toursim scam in brasil .
the gov keeps them drunk and stupid . for days for the partie , and then work another year to do it all over again

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The author of this article has an habit of identifying problems in Brazilian society and then come to wrong conclusions, if not totally absurd, to the point of providing some hilarious examples of some typical American habit of not understandaing teh complexity of foreign culures and yet wanting to observe them through American perpective... (its extremes being evident in the ignorance-caused Iraq messup)! I would suggest Wells stopped thinking with his color-obsessed American mind. It is sad to note that *some* US Black activists have gone from fighting segregation (Martin Luther King era) to promoting social and cultural segregation as long as that does NOT entail economic segregation. Brazil does not need that "culturally separate but economically equal" that some Black American airheads promote and in that respect Brazil is a lot better country than the US, with people of all colours enjoying ONE common Brazilian culture which reflect all of their shades without barriers like in the States where Blacks and Whites from a cultural point of view seem to live in two totally different planets. While it is true that racism need to be fought in Brazil as well as everywhere else in the world discrimination prevents people from going up the social ladder, the "American way" of fighting it while alongside promoting cultural segregation and cultural ghettos shoudl be rejected. I do not want to see tv programs and magazines that are Black and white only, I wan to see black and white people together. The only magazines that should be *all-black* and *all-white* only are the ones dedicated to hairstyles and dermatologists.
OPS: Prof. Wells, do you cultural homerok, you see "butts and boops" in Brazilian tv not because of "hatred towards black women" but because Brazil is a LATIN country and there is no calvinistic anglo-saxon hypocrisy & puritanism about human bodies and latin people like Italians Spaniards Portuguese, French & Latin Americans don't get shcoked when they see a human body on TV. Don't obsess us with your American perspectives.


.

I have to agree with both posters and the author. But having been to Carnival three times in three different places in Brazil...who cares, I LOVE Carnival. I love everything about it, the Banda's and Bloco's leading up, the events in the Schools of Samba, the heat, the beat, the smell, the food and yes the girls, it's amazing, there is no where in the US where everyone could be this happy about a month long party. Sure the beer and cell phone companies see it as an opportunity to market...anyone watch the super bowl? And yes there are thousands of beautiful brown butts and boobs, the US as a Puritan country sings out "oh my God" half naked women, how eveil are those Brazilians? One of the years I was there it was attended by Barbara Bush, Paul Allen had his yacht just offshore in Rio, Arnold was there and I met Bruce Willis at a Carnival Ball in Leme. It simply is the worlds biggest party...and what a time for a Gringo to get laid every night. Mr Wells, you want to analyze it? Go ahead...you could never stop it...your a white boy and will never really understand.

While we are so worrried about war, business, taxes, and wealth...Brazil puts on party after party, even when it is not Carnival time. I regret that this year I have to miss, I have chosen to fish the Rio Negro in September...but to my Brazilian friends...Rock On!

Do you really believe that Paul Allen, Bruce Willis or anyone has/had their best time ever in Rio ?
Therefore why dont they return...once.or several times...yearly ?
As to the biggest and best parties.....that you believe are in Rio, you seem not to know how the parties are in the Côte d'Azur
(Monaco, St Tropez, Nice, Cannes) and some Caribeans areas (St Martin, St Barth, Barbados), because curiously it is where all the world jet setters and Peoples that you mentionned go and anchor their yachts.....Every Year !

I have not mentionned yet the south of Spain (Marbella, Puerto Banus, Ibiza). In Ibiza the parties last 24/7 for the whole 4 summer months !

Smile

Dude...lighten up, what's up with the anti Brazilian thing. And on this site? What happened? Thanks for the tips, Spain sounds good for next year!

I have met alot of Brazilians who don't like carnival. Why is that?

We have heard your simplistic negationist rant before and Brazilians are finally starting to wake up to your anti-African attitude.

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written by jabmalassie, 2007-02-07 11:44:50

I have met alot of Brazilians who don't like carnival. Why is that?

Well, I for one have went to two carnivals here in brazil, and I'll never go again, unless it's to Rio, and only there because their carnaval is different than the rest of the country.

I think that most brazilians have been to at least one carnaval in some city in brazil, and once you've been to one they're pretty much all the same. A huge party surrounded by drunkards 24/7. Don't get me wrong, the last one I went to was in Salvador, and had a good time, for the first 48 hours, but after that I was ready to pack it in and get back home to some peace and tranquility. Carnaval, although a huge party, is exhausting, and not for everyone.

Thanks Luca for your well written comments. I agree with you. The author tries to apply the american mindset to the brazilian society, and he actually is promoting racism instead of fighting it.

I do think that "Raça" magazine is racist. If we had a "Raça branca" magazine people would be arrested and accused of being Nazi, it would be a scandal. I don't see the why the different treatment.

About the text, he uses the fact of "Calderão do Huck" and other TV shows use models that sometimes happen to be black as an evidence of "what is their place". This is incorrect because you will see white models too (properly tanned of course and with bigger butts, not corpse-white and flat) and brazilians, either male or female, don't see any problems with half-naked people. After all if you go to the beach you will see a lot of half-naked people.

He also cites "prolice brutality" as evidence. I will quote him:

One cannot imagine death squads and violent police entering middle-upper class (overwhelmingly white) neighborhoods and killing people with the same reckless disregard in which they enter favelas.

Of course not, they don't burn people alive, they don't have AR-15s, AK-47, grenades, and other "army exclusive" weapons, and those neighborhoods aren't home of drug dealers and entire brutal gangs. Favelas are known to be a place of crime. It's true that most people in there are hard working and honest, but it doesn't change the fact that favelas have very dangerous criminals.

BTW, you comment "overwhelmingly white" was funny. How did you get to this conclusion? Have you performed DNA testing in them to know they have no trace of african blood whatsoever, that they are "pure whites" as an american would think in his racial fantasies?

And then you go through the usual picking of little activist stories of racism. What is your point? Does a single case, considering that's real case of course, prove that Brazil is racist?

This obssession with Gisels Bundchen is unexplainable. I would like to know where these retards have read that she is the example of "maximum beauty" in Brazil. She is not. Brazilians aren't slightly interested in the fashion business, especially the male ones. Although she is not ugly, she is far, very far, from what a brazilian would consider good-looking.

It's just Carnaval...the article is writtne by the racist Mark Wells. It's just a party...a big party, but a party just the same.

We have heard your simplistic negationist rant before and Brazilians are finally starting to wake up to your anti-African attitude.

Anti-african? Luca is italian and his text wasn't anti-african. And in what planet brazilians are waking up? Despite of few media idiots pushing it out of "political correctness" this subject is a source of disgust for brazilians, and those who follow it are considered racist by the vast majority.

The only ones that might be used to it are those from the top 1% of the social pyramid that spend a considerable time in travels in Europe and in the US.

The only reason this talk is not attacked right away by an infuriated mob is that brazilians don't know what racism is. They have no idea. Most brazilians never left this country and don't know how segregated the american society is, and how even today people are clearly segregated.

They only hear through the news that some immigrat asylum home being burned in Germany, or some black being beaten in the US, or in movies, but they never saw it with their own eyes.

I have met alot of Brazilians who don't like carnival. Why is that?

I don't like carnaval because:

- I don't like the values the people that like carnaval have. I don't think those values are the ones we need to take this country forward;
- I don't like the traffic and the mess of people going to the beach;
- I don't like the fact that this country stops for 4 days;
- I don't like the fact that this is not culture, it is only business. The business of getting dollars from gringos by promoting a "party land" image;
- Rio is a terrible example to the rest of the country, and that's the image projected internationally of Brazil (it makes me want to vomit);
- Bahia will have Carnaval the entire year, not only on february, and bahianos will get upset if paulistas say they don't like to work;
- The media hammers it down our heads 24/7;
- It's stupid. People have completely lost any notion of what is to be brazilian. Most equate it to these stupid parties, a bunch of mindless idiots partying over nothing;

Carnaval is to the brazilian culture what McDonalds is to the american culture. Business, money, nothing else.

Anti-african? All my message was exactly the opposite. I condemn racism in Brazil , Italy and the US but I don't agree that in order to figh it we should promote cultural segregation of Black and White people like in the US. As for me I love African culture and my dissertation at University was on South Africa... Sorry for not being the person you needed for your arguments...

...
written by A brazilian, 2007-02-07 12:38:55

I have met alot of Brazilians who don't like carnival. Why is that?



I don't like carnaval because:

- I don't like the values the people that like carnaval have. I don't think those values are the ones we need to take this country forward;
- I don't like the traffic and the mess of people going to the beach;
- I don't like the fact that this country stops for 4 days;
- I don't like the fact that this is not culture, it is only business. The business of getting dollars from gringos by promoting a "party land" image;
- Rio is a terrible example to the rest of the country, and that's the image projected internationally of Brazil (it makes me want to vomit);
- Bahia will have Carnaval the entire year, not only on february, and bahianos will get upset if paulistas say they don't like to work;
- The media hammers it down our heads 24/7;
- It's stupid. People have completely lost any notion of what is to be brazilian. Most equate it to these stupid parties, a bunch of mindless idiots partying over nothing;

Carnaval is to the brazilian culture what McDonalds is to the american culture. Business, money, nothing else.

A brazilian, you're starting to scare me, lately you have made some posts that are fairly accurate and completely understand your perspective.....only a few though, lol.

Is it possible in year 2007 not to agree with an article written by a scholar with a different skin colour and yet NOT be called a racist or anti-african (and besides prof. Wells is American and not African)?

By August Wayne, THG News
John Hostettler, the Congressman representing the 8th district of Indiana, has been convinced by local religious groups to introduce legislation in the House that would change the name of an Interstate 69 extension to a more moral sounding number.

Luciano Huck is probably a secret Jew "Marrano" who exploits whites and Blacks because he is neither . however by he keeping his talmudic self secretive he fools everyone into to classifying him as white so whites will get the blame for his exploitations!! just like Jerry Springer in the USA ..

You can find all the excuses you which to in order to disguise not only your anti-African views, but also the advantage that you have enjoyed endorsing the agenda to keep Africans in the basement of society. Any rational person will look at the picture and see that it is sadly distorted and the socio-economic disparity between whites and blacks in Brazil, as well as the USA, do not lie. We, of African descent, will not tolerate individuals like you or the system, and by whatever means necessary. You are fooling no one but yourself and those who are like you. One day you might find yourself in the basement; just check out the history of Italians in Australia.

I have a girlfriend that is black in rio, and she says some of the same things that were written in the article.
No matter where you go in the world, the black race will always be viewed and look upon as a lower class. Just look at Africa, no one cares.

Racism will always exist

Just look at Africa, no one cares.

Why should anyone care if they don't care about themselves? Gringos should learn that they do more harm than good by "helping" them, they are the spoiled brats of the world. Just leave them to solve their own problems, if they aren't capable of doing so than humanity will be better without them.

I guess you are american, aren't you? Promote segregation in your own country, I don't care, but if you are talking about Brazil then I do care and I will stand up against it.

I have yet to hear any critics of the steps some black and brown Brazilians are taking--such as through TV da Gente and other vehicles--OFFER ANY ALTERNATIVES. None.
All your hear are claims they are headed down the path of the dreaded Americans where racial hate, segregation, on-going strife a la the Sunnis and Shiites or Palestinians and Israelis is experienced hour-by-hour, day-by-day, blah, blah blah....
Just this morning I almost got blown up at a supermarket by White supremacists. Boy, at least we don't have that in Brazil (though you do have scores of young black men being killed by the authorities---hmmmmm.)

Latin Americans (and others also) love to exaggerate the extent of racial conflict and division in the U.S. as a means to deflect from the problems in their own societies. Racism continues to be a problem in some areas here, but many of you are behind the times and need to do some serious reading. Most of you guys have probably never spent much time here and rely on what you want to see in newscasts or movies. Forty years ago living as a kid near a suburb of Oakland, California my family ran into trouble with about 20% of the whites on our block; the other 80% were fine and you act as though Brazil would be losing something special by trying something different in its race approach. Sure they would--less poverty, violence from police death squads, horrible schools, a black-out in the media. To paraphrase what I told Jabmalassie,
if something has not worked, try another method until it does work.

Your text is incredible, historian. You simply get all brazilians problems, real problems or fantasies a la Mark Wells, and call it "racial". How do you really expect to get anything right in this? Wrong assumptions, wrong conclusions, wrong solutions.

And yes, the idea from american blacks is segregation, they would like blacks in Brazil to be considered completely separated from the brazilian culture. So they could have someone to demonize as the cause of their problems, label things like afro-this or afro-that, give identities and stereotypes people could use (taking away their responsability from building up themselves).

We don't know the US? We rely in newscasts and movies? The very existence of american people like the author of this article, morons like a hispanic that keeps writing "Viva la Raza" in every post, and Nazi rednecks that love to come to this forum is a sign that there's something very wrong there.

This should be obvious guys. If Brazil has been such a wonderful place, or at least superior to other nations in its treatment of blacks, then why historically and to this day do more blacks elsewhere continue to seek the U.S. as a destination and not Brazil?
Why did Colin Powell's Jamaican family go to New York and not Sao Paolo? Why did Barack Obama's father and Kofi Annan go to the U.S. in the 1960's and not South Brazil?

For several centuries after the Protestant Reformation--when Protestants were often persecuted in Catholic countries--they flocked to countries like The Netherlands, England and the U.S. The world's most educated and other blacks choose the U.S. and Europe as their top destination--few choose Brazil. Why is that if Brazil is so great for blacks? And why, today, do so many blacks of the West Indies and Africa go to the U.S. if the race approach is just oh so awful compared to Brazil or any other places below the Rio Grande? Because they are not fools, THAT IS WHY. The U.S. and European acknowledges his alcohol problem while the Brazilian continues to deny it. Which is worse?

People vote with their feet and let us know where the better place is for this group or that group. The U.S., while imperfect, continues to trounce Brazil in this area. Give up the we must not mention race nonsense; Brazil's blacks know they have been the losers under this approach and they (not blacks in the U.S.) feel it is time for a change.

Except the fact that you took this piece of information out of your imagination and as such it has no grounds on reality, I think today due to the socio-economical reasons the US would be the main place to go, followed by Europe, for ANYBODY, not just blacks.

People vote with their feet and let us know where the better place is for this group or that group.

Once again your mind produces all kinds of illogical statements and non-sensical relationships of cause and effect just to support your racist mentality. All kinds of people, not just blacks, go to the US to try a better life, it doesn't mean the go there because they admire your highly racist and segregated society. They go simply because they think they will have a better chance.

Of course, that's just faith. The fact is that for most it doesn't turn out to have a happy ending.

Give up the we must not mention race nonsense; Brazil's blacks know they have been the losers under this approach and they (not blacks in the U.S.) feel it is time for a change.

That's odd. All articles and most comments in here are from americans. And any brazilian would be able to tell you that in Brazil nobody speaks of it.

It seems that you are the ones that want to export segregation.

These immigrant blacks come to the U.S. and do not complain about changing the U.S. racial classification system. They call themselves West Indian blacks, African blacks, regardless of their skin tone. Only some among the Latin American immigrants seem frustrated with the U.S. system, most often the lightest-skinned mestizos and mulattoes who were close to being white and when they get here they are taken down a notch or two. Most people here do not spend much energy on the racial classification system here--it played a role in creating the wealthiest blacks on the planet, wealthier than the Poles and most East Europeans, Argentinians, the same basic standard of living as the White British. Oh, what a horrible system they live under.

well, as much as I hate to say it I actually agree with a European.( Luca from Rome)
Yes, here in America if blacks want to be educated, don't litter their speech with slang and so on, they are called awful names by other blacks, Uncle Tom's and so forth. Funny thing is that the white kids try to embrace the "black culture" which despises them.
Unfortunately, the blacks here in the US who promote education, self-reliance and refuse to blame others ( even in the face of racisim) have no voice, it's much better press and TV to see someone rail against the White man.

This guy Wells is nothing more than a race baiter. As far as I'm concerned in America we need to get rid of "African-American", Italian-American and just use the word American. Brazil, please no matter what keep calling everyone in Brazil "Brazilian", where one came from 200 years ago doesn't matter.

One thing which I disagree with Luca on is that of course Mr. Wells will look at the situation with American attitudes, He's an American. Just as an Italian will look at things through Italian attitudes and Brazilians with Brazilian attitudes. It's truly difficult to remove oneself from their culture, unless they move to a different culture and even then it's hard to change.

Finally, to "A Brazilian" you seem to contradict yourself. If people come to America's highly segregated and racist society for a better life, how can they get a better life if our society is so racist ?? MOST of the segregation in the US is economic, not color. As a middle class white guy I would watched as closely as a black guy in Malibu, California

That's really funny, americans critizising others on racial issues.... The Worst S.H.I.T. Ever!

What has the world come down to?

F.U.C.K. the usa.

The U.S has more millionaires, black white than any country in the world, and holds the worlds richest, BILL GATES, and WARREN BUFFET

U.S.

written by The American Historian, 2007-02-07 15:53:37

This should be obvious guys. If Brazil has been such a wonderful place, or at least superior to other nations in its treatment of blacks, then why historically and to this day do more blacks elsewhere continue to seek the U.S. as a destination and not Brazil?
Why did Colin Powell's Jamaican family go to New York and not Sao Paolo? Why did Barack Obama's father and Kofi Annan go to the U.S. in the 1960's and not South Brazil?

For several centuries after the Protestant Reformation--when Protestants were often persecuted in Catholic countries--they flocked to countries like The Netherlands, England and the U.S. The world's most educated and other blacks choose the U.S. and Europe as their top destination--few choose Brazil. Why is that if Brazil is so great for blacks? And why, today, do so many blacks of the West Indies and Africa go to the U.S. if the race approach is just oh so awful compared to Brazil or any other places below the Rio Grande? Because they are not fools, THAT IS WHY. The U.S. and European acknowledges his alcohol problem while the Brazilian continues to deny it. Which is worse?

People vote with their feet and let us know where the better place is for this group or that group. The U.S., while imperfect, continues to trounce Brazil in this area. Give up the we must not mention race nonsense; Brazil's blacks know they have been the losers under this approach and they (not blacks in the U.S.) feel it is time for a change.

First of all, if Nigeria an black run countries in Africa are so void of black racism then why aren't black people outside of Africa flocking to Nigeria and other black run nations in Africa? My point is your point was simplistic and fails to take into account other factors in migration patterns that have nothing to do with "race." Secondly, Brazil has a huge mixed-race population - as such, if one "race" had to be factored into quoted attempting to "treat well," it would only be prudent and just by all mathematical factors (total demographics) that emphasis be place on "mixed-race" and not "black."

Plenty of diverse groups of people in Brazil. I don't doubt there are more various races in Rio and Sao Paulo than in Lagos.

Another thing is, black African migration and other black migration into the United States is very tiny compared to "Hispanic" (and I mean non-black Hispanics) and Eastern European and Asian (including East Indian). If so many black peoples were migrationg into the United States black people in the U.S. would not only make up 13% t 14% of the total U.S. population. In fact look at U.S. immigration policy between Haiti and Cuba. Look at U.S. immigration policy between Africa and Eastern Europe and Asia. You are aware when giving plasma and blood in the United States, you are asked in you have ever set foot in Africa since the 1970's, if you answer yes you are forbidden from giving plasma or blood (it's considered potentially contaminated with HIV).

By the way... were did the Catholics go when persecuted by the Protestants? Some in Northern Ireland probably would like to know that after centuries. England was hardly a promised land for Protestants. Centuries ago Protestants persecuted Protestants... I would think a hardcore American (USA) would know that since the whole Mayflower and Puritan story is related to that. But let me guess... you thought the Puritans were fleeing Catholics in England? LOl

I do think the author's viewpoint has an American slant. I feel that Brazil has a unique viewpoint of its own culture but that the vast majority of the world has that supposed "American" viewpoint on race. I have visited Brazil several times in the past few years. Brazil and the USA suffer from deep-rooted racial problems. In fact, almost every nation in the Western hemisphere has serious racial problems. I think Brazil's racial problems can not be easily compared to America's racial problems. Brazil received 3.5 million black slaves while the USA received 400,000. I tend to believe that the Brazilian elites, of which my grandfather and family belong to, have and continue to oppress the poor who are predominately Black and Brown. Brazilian elites, like most elites, fear structural reforms will endanger their social-economic position. I know, according to the official government data in Brazil, that 88 percent of the richest 20 percent say they are white. And that 60 percent of the poorest 20 percent say they are black. Black and mullatos have twice the unemployment rate and earn half of white people do according to IBGE. A similar case, I am sure, exists in the USA.
Look back at Brazilian history. Everytime some elite in power tried to shake-up the socio-economic structure of Brazil the reactionary conservatives stopped them. In America it came to a bloody civil war. The best example of this, in my opinion, is when Joao Goulart tried to radically reform Brazil but failed when radical (racist) reactionary conservatives ended his dream of a more prosperous nation. The only way to build a more perfect union, which is inculsive of all races, is to fight the current elitist structure. I am going to write an article about this soon. Essentially in Brazil the elites are wealthy not because of capitalists, as they claim, but that their wealth is derived from the state which directly benefits their pockets instead of better redistributing income towards the poorest segments of society. This is clearly my personal viewpoint and it will never change, no matter what a Brazilian or American says to me!

You've got to be blind or an idiot not to see racism in Brazil. And the reaction of the commentors above who criticize the article was nicely fortold by the article. Nice job, Mr. Wells!

Excellent insight dt. I expressed a similar analysis on an earlier Mark Wells topic and it is nice to see some of the posters here think as you do.

Well E Harmony, I suppose I will respond to you on Thursday. I am going to call it a day. And I was having such a nice day after defeating the flu and conversing with Adriana, Luigi and dt. Damn.....

The reason no Brazilian writes here is because Brazilins don't care about social, polical, crime or anything except carnival and the beach.

Black US Millionaires: Tiger Woods, Michael Jordon, Bobby Bonds, Opra Winfrey, Shaq O'Neil...Black Brazilian millionaires...Ronaldo, Romario, Pele, Gilberto Gil...there is no difference. The real discrimination in both countries is in education and economics, although the US has made some in roads with affirmative action. It's funny that blacks and other minorites support school vouchers; but the teachers unions and democrats oppose them. It's a simple fact, that richer US neighborhoods, pay higher property taxes thus have better schools. To get out of the hood, you must make it as a rapper, basketball or football player, as minorities are not afforded the same opportunites.

Brazil is even worse, the public school system is horrific, most middle and upper class white kids go to really good private schools, schools that are much better than US public or private schools. Very few actually have a chance to go to the only universities that really matter, the Federal Universities which very few qualify for, the education there is better than most of our Ivy League schools. Those that don't get in end up in the medicore universities were a useless MBA can be achieved only by making sure their parents pay the tuition, there are no academic requirements, including showing up for class. The elite, whos kids do not get into the Federal universities, send their kids abroad to school. I am not sure, but it is my understanding that there is now a very controversal scolorhip program for the Federal schools implemented since Lula was elected, maybe a Brazilian can enlighten us on that.

Well "GOOD MORNING", I say... Of course there is racism in Brazil, as in any other place, because racism is an innate condition of human race... We can supress the racism in ourselves (and it's good to supress it due to various reasons), but you can't erase millions of years of evolution (when we tried to eliminate the other pack of hunters, competing for the same resources), by touting and living through twenty years of PC (politically-correct) "revolution"...

I agree more or less with what Wells wrote. I would add the following: historically blacks have been poor in accumulating resources, which (the lack thereof) resulted in all their problems... I think that's the reason why blacks are at the bottom of the social ladder. Basically, it's the economy, stupid.

I don't know for sure why the blacks are so bad in accumulating resources, some researchers say blacks have low average IQ, others say it's simply bad luck, and others say it's due to the hot African climate which does not promote conquest of their natural environment...

Still, I think there was never a point in history of human race where there was LESS racism in the entire world! IMHO this is due to the now well developed world economy and general progress. However, at the slightest blip, and the smallest economic upheaval, racism will return in full force. You bet on it.

Depends on the odds. What are you offering?

Very few actually have a chance to go to the only universities that really matter, the Federal Universities which very few qualify for, the education there is better than most of our Ivy League schools.

That's stretching it just a wee bit.

Racism and segregation do exist in both Brazil and the US and the idea of importing cultural segregation American-style in Brazil (i.e.: let's live totally separate but with the same econoimic resourcses) is totally insane and just as racist. Shame on you! White racist americans have managed to create balck clones of themselves. It is sad to notice *some* Black "historians" have inherited the very same mindset of the people they are correctly fighting. Thanks god there are lots of intelligent blacks and whites in the States who are intelligent enough to go beyond that hideous crap.

Raca magazine
It would be a beautiful and inteesting magazine if it did not have that ugly title "race". It should change its name into "afro culture" and note "race". Races as proved by modern genetics simply do not exist. Cultures and ethnic groups exist.
Africa
Besides anyone who says there is ONE african culture is totally ignorant. Culturally speaking Africa is made up of very very different cultures: from a linguistic point of view Africa is one of the complex continent, if not the most. Not only, if you look at African people of Senegal (western coast) and for example people of Angola (southern Africa) they look totally different, it is just color obsessed bump people who only categorize people according to skin color. You are offending Africa when you are talking about ONE African culture, just as silly as it would be saying ONE European Culture or ONE Asian culture.

It is sad that the use of the word black is used instead or afro-american as it implies you're part of a group because of your skin color. What about those American people of African descent who are not black? And what about those black people were not born in the States and who are black but not african american in culture?

There is an implied racism in the fact that when some people talk about Africa this and Africa that, they invariably mean black Africa and not countries like Egypt.

I was not even considering Northern Africa but Sub-saharian Africa and point out its cultural complexity. On the contrary northern Africa is a lot mor.e homogenous from a cultural point of view compared to Subsaharian Africa, i.e. mostly Arab-speaking people with some Berber minorities in some rural areas of Marocco, Algeria & Tunisia.

Finally, to "A Brazilian" you seem to contradict yourself. If people come to America's highly segregated and racist society for a better life, how can they get a better life if our society is so racist ?? MOST of the segregation in the US is economic, not color. As a middle class white guy I would watched as closely as a black guy in Malibu, California

There's no contradiction whatsoever, it's the money, just that, always the money. They don't go there because they admire your racist society, because they think it's the best there is, but only because they believe they can make enough money to either save a lot and go back home as a "winner" or have a nice standard of living.

From all the possible reasons that could take someone to move to another country, do you really think they go to the US because of "less racism" solely?

The very existence of many "ghettos", neighborhoods of only blacks, or only hispanics, or only whites, places you won't hear english, is evidence they don't live in harmony.

The idea proposed by the american historian is too simplistic to be taken seriously. He not only made all that up, but also ignored all immigration to any other place in the world, as if people "voted with their feet" only there.

MOST of the segregation in the US is economic, not color. As a middle class white guy I would watched as closely as a black guy in Malibu, California

No, I think you are confused. I call racism the very action of believing in races and promoting a racialized culture. It doesn't matter if you use it for burning crosses and beating up black people, or just use as social means to separate the first class from the second class and third class citizens. In the end the result is the same.

It seems that the only way to be a racist for americans is by wearing a white cape and commiting acts of physical violence.

Rich people will treat every non-rich person badly, that's a fact, if you are not one of them you will not be well seen. And that's not different in here. But in Brazil we don't have "races" due to the heavy mixing, we don't label people against their will and don't hold them in ghettos, either physical or for the mind. We don't have exclusive neighborhoods and separate cultures for every specific ethnic group. We don't worship nor promote ethnicities. The many definitions of colors is evidence of how the people is able to live together as equals.

The one thing I am disgusted about some of the commentors in here is that they seem to believe in racial myths. They truly take the Aryan story seriously, and how people other than north europeans "aren't white" because they "mixed" in the past and how whiteness is valued above all others. Even the blacks seems to validate and use this scale of values for their lives, this is sick. It's all about excluding others, using some sort of "purity ideal".

What could be more racist than that? All you need to be complete Nazis is to wear a SS outfit.

The author needs to get a life and get real. I have sevaerl people who work in my office in Rio and they were hired for their abilities and not by any succulent flesh. I am tired of articles and people talking about racism in places where it doesnt exist and ignorning it in places where its a problem (like arabs killing blacks in Darfur). Get a like dude...

In an overwhelmingly white suburb of Milwaukee, a pack of black teenage males attack a white guy on a bus, simply because the guy was white. As soon as he got on the bus he got kicked in either the back or the head. They followed him off of the bus punching him and calling him "cracker" and whatnot. Does this come as a surprise to me? Certainly not. The article doesn't give all this info but other news sources have. And the white people that complain that white people getting attacked based on their race is over looked are correct. Why this story ended up making news is beyond me when it is not the first - nor will it be the last - time a white person attacked because of their race. http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=562834

Racial antagonisms are well and alive in the U.S., and they begin by promoting a predominate emphasis on the racial difference and promoting rallying around race as a clique social and political force.

Blacks Attack White! Wow, Big story, kids attack other kids all the time. Now, if it was blacks hang white kid from a tree, burn cross in his yard, make him go to a seperate place to eat, deny him financing for a home, have the policman friends pull him over just for driving in white neighborhoods...that would be a story. People are attacked for their race, religion or sexual orientation all over the world, some places are better than others, but no place is free from it. It is unfortuante, but unstoppable.

written by notsouglyamerican, 2007-02-07 17:52:35

well, as much as I hate to say it I actually agree with a European.( Luca from Rome)
Yes, here in America if blacks want to be educated, don't litter their speech with slang and so on, they are called awful names by other blacks, Uncle Tom's and so forth. Funny thing is that the white kids try to embrace the "black culture" which despises them.
Unfortunately, the blacks here in the US who promote education, self-reliance and refuse to blame others ( even in the face of racisim) have no voice, it's much better press and TV to see someone rail against the White man.

This guy Wells is nothing more than a race baiter. As far as I'm concerned in America we need to get rid of "African-American", Italian-American and just use the word American. Brazil, please no matter what keep calling everyone in Brazil "Brazilian", where one came from 200 years ago doesn't matter.

One thing which I disagree with Luca on is that of course Mr. Wells will look at the situation with American attitudes, He's an American. Just as an Italian will look at things through Italian attitudes and Brazilians with Brazilian attitudes. It's truly difficult to remove oneself from their culture, unless they move to a different culture and even then it's hard to change.

Finally, to "A Brazilian" you seem to contradict yourself. If people come to America's highly segregated and racist society for a better life, how can they get a better life if our society is so racist ?? MOST of the segregation in the US is economic, not color. As a middle class white guy I would watched as closely as a black guy in Malibu, California

The principle of "white flight" contradicts your proposition, furthermore, demographics in the United States do flow around race, black middle class have their own neighborhoods and white middle class have their own neighborhoods. This is not to say these neighborhoods are absolute in their racial demographics, it's also not to say that their are no "mixed" neighborhoods, but the mixed neighborhoods with no clear majority are a minority of neighborhoods. And you certainly don't see people of different colors hugging each other in pictures frequently like it is a normal thing - it always trips me out when I see this with Brazilian photographs on the internet - not just that they hug and embrace but that they do it as if it were normal.

However, I will agree with your sentiment and implied proposition that the United States is not the worse country on earth racially. The society could never function for long without going to civil war if everyone hated each other. There are many countries far worse than both the U.S. and Brazil regarding race, ethnic, and even religious matters. Many countries in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia have worse problems. Brazil I think is one of the more fluid and tolerant societies in the world when it comes to matters of "race" and ethnicity. In the United States "race" is much more cliquish and seen as the foremost way to build community, pride, and economic and political power. Racial antagonisms are very strong in the U.S. and because of that people frequently get attacked due to their race, be they Asian, Arab, white, black, or even mulatto.

"keeping..in their place"????????? What a lovely way to do it!

That ought to warm up all the American Negroes, err African-Americans who are increasngly flocking to Brazil to get themselves a bit of that Brazilian bunda.

"...(i.e., lets live totally separately but with the same resources) is totally insane and just as racist. White racist Americans have managed to create black clones of themselves. It is sad to notice *some* Black 'historians' have inherited the very same mindset of the people they are correctly fighting."

Luca, please show me where I the Historian, Mark Wells, America's elected black officials, Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, Oprah or anybody advocates separate living by the races while sharing America's resources. WHO IS ADVOCATING THAT? And I want specific examples of where we are doing so and not reckless assertions that supporting those black Brazilians who choose to emphasize their black heritage are advocating "separatism."

I have lived and worked in predominantly non-black environments my whole life. So have quite a few other blacks. I would say less than 5% of any of the black Americans I have ever encountered in my life support black separatism. Your observations about the U.S. are based on worn out cliches. Do alot more research on America's black American community my man so you do not become a disciple of the E Harmony cult on the American black community.

"my point is your point is simplistic and fails to take into account other factors in migration patterns that have nothing to do with "race."

Of course there are a variety of factors that play into where a people migrate to. WHO DOESN'T KNOW THIS? Like, oh, how many jobs are available. My point is if the U.S. race system in the past and present is so much worse than say, Brazil's, why do so many black immigrants today choose to come here? The reason is because they know that on balance, the opportunity the U.S. provides even with some of its racism makes it worth the effort. Brazil's poorer economy combined with its racism does not make it worth the effort.

Second, where did you get your figures that compare legal immigration from Africa and the West Indies in comparison to Hispanics and Asians? As I would speculate, many of the African immigrants choose to go to Europe which is closer and where they may speak the European native tongue not spoken here (such as French). Obviously, many Hispanics believe the shorter distance to the U.S. is to their advantage.

About England and the Protestants, which period of English history are you talking about? For most of the 17th Century England was ruled by Catholic Kings who clashed with their Protestants--this was the cause of the migration of the Puritans to the U.S. as well as the English Civil War. Yes, for a time Protestants got treated like crap, but after the 1688 Glorious Revolution settled things in the Protestants favor, it became a haven of sorts for all of the continent's Protestants. They had more secure property rights. The American Revolution was caused in part on the belief the later British King had broken the 1688 compact with the American colonists. Read Kevin Phillip's "The Cousin's Wars."

Racial antagonisms are not "strong" as you claim. They appear from time to time, but most of the violence perpetrated by young black men in the U.S. are on OTHER YOUNG BLACK MEN. Not on white people (the great myth of the White Supremacists), or Asians or Hispanics. Most criminal activity in the USA is intra-racial not interracial. So since the average black criminal is killing another black male like me , that must mean there are strong antagonisms between America's blacks. Oh please. Your neighborhood is not indicative of all neighborhoods E Harmony. The racial apocalypse you seem subconsciouly eager to witness is not likely to happen.

written by The American Historian, 2007-02-08 16:43:18

"my point is your point is simplistic and fails to take into account other factors in migration patterns that have nothing to do with "race."

Of course there are a variety of factors that play into where a people migrate to. WHO DOESN'T KNOW THIS? Like, oh, how many jobs are available. My point is if the U.S. race system in the past and present is so much worse than say, Brazil's, why do so many black immigrants today choose to come here? The reason is because they know that on balance, the opportunity the U.S. provides even with some of its racism makes it worth the effort. Brazil's poorer economy combined with its racism does not make it worth the effort.

Second, where did you get your figures that compare legal immigration from Africa and the West Indies in comparison to Hispanics and Asians? As I would speculate, many of the African immigrants choose to go to Europe which is closer and where they may speak the European native tongue not spoken here (such as French). Obviously, many Hispanics believe the shorter distance to the U.S. is to their advantage.

About England and the Protestants, which period of English history are you talking about? For most of the 17th Century England was ruled by Catholic Kings who clashed with their Protestants--this was the cause of the migration of the Puritans to the U.S. as well as the English Civil War. Yes, for a time Protestants got treated like crap, but after the 1688 Glorious Revolution settled things in the Protestants favor, it became a haven of sorts for all of the continent's Protestants. They had more secure property rights. The American Revolution was caused in part on the belief the later British King had broken the 1688 compact with the American colonists. Read Kevin Phillip's "The Cousin's Wars."

@ bold: Again since this simple matter of logic seems to keep flying over your head, if your proposition where to hold true Nigeria would be packed with black peoples from the United States, Brazil, Colombia, and France and England and so forth immigrating their seeking citizenship since Nigeria is black run. But this is not the case. Also, if your proposition where to hold true more white peoples from Eastern Europe and around the world would be seeking to immigrate to Brazil over the United States because as you infer it, Brazil de facto grants all wealth and prosperity to people if they have white skin, hence these people would not face the competition they would in the United States from all various races. But once again this is not the case. As my Hmong college teacher once told me, himself an immigrant to the United States, most immigrants today come here to make money, most do not come here for nor buy into the rhetoric of all the "ideals" and hoopla. In fact he says many Latino and Asian immigrants not only send money back overseas but they save to one day buy themselves nice homes in their native countries to relocate back to.



Continue in post below...

Continued from previous post....


It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out the United States holds two different immigration policies for those fleeing Haiti and those fleeing Cuba. Haiti is predominately black, the poorest country in the Western hemisphere, and worse to live in than Cuba. And there are tons of Asian immigrants in this country, like wise with Eastern European, and sure as hell with Latinos, but in comparison there are not that many black African immigrants into the United States. Again, the black population of the United States only makes up 13% to 14% of the total U.S. population. Attempting to imply the U.S. is swarming with black African immigrants so much so that the black population of the U.S. is reaching 30% or 40% (like Brazil's mixed-race brown population) is just a total exaggeration.

And Protestant and Catholics slaughtered each other during the Reformation times. But a number of Protestant kingdoms made up the unification called the Holy Roman Empire. Granted many Catholics did many cruel things to Protestants in many areas of Europe. But Post-Reformation England, has no shinning history with treatment to Catholics, even when Catholics sat as the monarchy England was de facto Protestant ruled after the Reformation. Few crimes throughout history resemble that of Protestant England oppression on Ireland. Though it is largely a quite kept tale of history (for those of outside Ireland) it was just about as bad as what the Europeans did to the Amerindians. Not even the famous Inquisition can claim such a racist and horrendous run of rape, theft, brutality and "racism" (not even against the Jew) as Protestant England reigned down upon the Catholic Irish. In fact, to this day, it is against the law in England for any nobility either to marry a Catholic or convert to Catholicism and receive the crown. Actually, Protestant England is not even free of theft from Catholics in England, seeing as many of those old great Cathedrals belonged to the Catholic Church and local Catholics before the Protestant nobility confiscated them (of course never to give to the poor).

written by The American Historian, 2007-02-08 16:55:47

Racial antagonisms are not "strong" as you claim. They appear from time to time, but most of the violence perpetrated by young black men in the U.S. are on OTHER YOUNG BLACK MEN. Not on white people (the great myth of the White Supremacists), or Asians or Hispanics. Most criminal activity in the USA is intra-racial not interracial. So since the average black criminal is killing another black male like me , that must mean there are strong antagonisms between America's blacks. Oh please. Your neighborhood is not indicative of all neighborhoods E Harmony. The racial apocalypse you seem subconsciouly eager to witness is not likely to happen.

Definition of antagonism n. 1 the state of being opposed or hostile to another or to each other; opposition or hostility 2 an opposing force, principle, etc.; specif., a mutually opposing action that can take place between organisms, muscles, drugs, etc. that acts in opposition to or counteracts another -SYN. OPPONENT (Webster's New World College Dictionary, 1997)

Antagonism does not mean nor imply, in American vernacular, the actions of criminal activity, the action of violence, nor death or murder. Antagonism in American vernacular means to act antagonistic or in opposition to another person, when the word is used in relation to a person or more.Essentially antagonism is what you a bo display toward Brazil, Brazilians, and those you both deem "non-black" Brazilians in these discussions. Essentially both you, and Mark Wells, advocate that "non-white" Brazilians become antagonistic towards white Brazilians - in other words you and Mark Wells promote racial antagonisms become a cultural model Brazil adapt from the United States.

It is from the culture, that nurtures and feeds racial antagonisms, that I have suggested racial riots or attacks every so often results in the United States. If peoples did not care about race at all in the U.S. and no racial antagonisms existed then the L.A. Riots would not have occurred, this young guy on the bus would not have been attacked, and Mexican, Asian, and black gangs would not be attack one another ever so often in L.A.; it is an oxymoron to suggest the opposite (that "racial peace" and the lack of racial antagonisms drives the attacks).

I've also made it clear in a post, that the various races in the United States do not hate each other - because if they did the country would be in a Balkan like civil war. But that does not negate the very strong culture of racial antagonisms. As I've stated, to Americans (USA) race is the vortex upon which community, pride, and economic and political power achieved.

I was not aware I ever said Great Britan or England treated Catholics just dandy. Maybe you had a typo above because I thought you said ENGLAND DID NOT TREAT PROTESTANTS in a decent way. As I said during the 17th Century it went back and forth (with regard to Protestants) after they had been treated well under Elizabeth I.

And buddy I know about how the British treated Catholics and what they did to Ireland (at least to the Catholics in that country). It is in some ways similar to how an English descended-landowning elite treated peasant-like black slaves in the U.S. In both countries English type aristocrats employed Celtic Irish or Scots-Irish muscle to keep a peasant-like class of Irish Catholics or black American slaves in line. That is one of the reasons so many Irishmen--either in Ireland like Bono or here in the U.S. like the Kennedy brothers have had sympathy for blacks and their causes. They know the history is similar in some ways. Of course not all Irish Americans have gotten along with blacks, but often they have had a stronger commitment to social justice than other White Americans.

And I am not sure what you do not understand about my basic point. Nigeria? Many black immigrants who come to the U.S weigh a variety of factors. Economic opportunity and the openess to one's group are among those factors. My point is if the racial climate is so horrible in the U.S. today why would those immigratns still come?
They come because the U.S. is not the smoldering cauldron of racial resentment that you and others want to believe it is. Yes, still we have some racism and discrimination. But it is not the 1960 America you insist it is based on your own neighborhood experiences.

I do not accept the word "antagonism" as a proper description of the attitudes between most racial groups in the U.S. nor of my or Bo's or Mark's attitude toward Brazilians. I am antagonistic toward those whites who are racist, not those who are not. If I had been old enough in the 1960's I would have been antagonistic toward George Wallace and Strom Thurmond, but not toward John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson or even Richard Nixon--who was moderately pro-Civil Rights.

I suppose this is the comment of the day. We are advocating antagonism toward Brazil's whites by pointing out that some of them are responsible for the condition of their fellow black and brown Brazilians? What is the alternative? Who else is responsible for their position? Not all White Brazilians, but some certainly are as are those brown and black folks who collaborate in the system. If that is promoting antagonism I am guilty.

What if I consistently robbed you and your family E Harmony and otherwise treated you like dirt while turning around and saying we are still one happy family? And one day Mark Wells points out to you I am not treating you good. You would blame Mark Wells for promoting ANTAGONISM? Good grief........

Most Americans of all races just live their lives like everybody else. Many whites have very little to no contact with nonwhites and are thus focused on their own problems.
Many black Americans accepted the cross they had to bear in life early
and just go out and live their lives like everybody else. Very few commit or imagine committing violent acts against other racial groups. And most crime is intra-racial--ask LAPD Chief Bratton. From his days of working in New York he could tell you the typical murder victim in that city: young black male 15-24 killed during a dispute with ANOTHER YOUNG BLACK MALE AGE 15-24 on a weekend night. The numbers of young black and hispanic men killed in New York city was in the hundreds. The numbers of white females killed in that city in the same period: 7. An American white female is much more likely to be killed by her White estranged husband or boyfriend than by a black/hispanic male from off the streets. Look at Robert Blake's wife. Look at Natalie Holloway. Look at Sunny Von Bulow. Look at Scott Peterson who killed his Portugese-American wife Lacy in Modesto, California.

But everbody remembers the horrific interracial crime because it reinforces their own stereotypes. A sad commentary.

written by The American Historian, 2007-02-08 19:44:17
In both countries English type aristocrats employed Celtic Irish or Scots-Irish muscle to keep a peasant-like class of Irish Catholics or black American slaves in line. That is one of the reasons so many Irishmen--either in Ireland like Bono or here in the U.S. like the Kennedy brothers have had sympathy for blacks and their causes. They know the history is similar in some ways. Of course not all Irish Americans have gotten along with blacks...

I'll agree with that.

They come because the U.S. is not the smoldering cauldron of racial resentment that you and others want to believe it is. Yes, still we have some racism and discrimination. But it is not the 1960 America you insist it is based on your own neighborhood experiences.

I spent 4 years in the Marine Corps with people of many various races and ethnicities from all over the United States. I have been in several states in the U.S. and been over seas in the First Gulf War. So you can take your snide comment about my "neighborhood experience" else where. One of my most negative and hardest enduring racial experience was in the Marine Corps aboard a ship floating out at sea for months - far away from my neighborhood. I live in the Midwest, the L.A. Riots televised across the world did not occur in "my neighborhood," nor did the murder of the young black girl recently in L.A. by Mexican gang members. The white guy that got jumped on the bus by black teenage males was attacked in upper middle class white suburb around a popular mall - that was not in "my neighborhood." Many of the racial violence that goes on in the U.S. be it in New York City, Alabama, Indiana, or L.A or else where is not in "my neighborhood." Again, if white Americans and black Americans have so little racial antagonisms - culturally - against one another then why the steep racial divide in the O.J. Simpson case? Then why did the United States Marine Corps have to be called in to back up the National Guard in L.A. after the Rodney King beating? None of those thing took place in "my neighborhood." And "my neighborhood" by the way is suppose to be a bumpkin Midwestern neighborhood much more racially divided and behind the times than cosmopolitan world class cities like L.A. So if L.A. is global world of multiracial harmony compared to my town and my small neighborhood, then if L.A. is one of the best racial environments the United States has it does not boast well than against Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo in terms of racial peace.

written by The American Historian, 2007-02-08 21:02:30

I do not accept the word "antagonism" as a proper description of the attitudes between most racial groups in the U.S. nor of my or Bo's or Mark's attitude toward Brazilians. I am antagonistic toward those whites who are racist, not those who are not. If I had been old enough in the 1960's I would have been antagonistic toward George Wallace and Strom Thurmond, but not toward John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson or even Richard Nixon--who was moderately pro-Civil Rights.

I suppose this is the comment of the day. We are advocating antagonism toward Brazil's whites by pointing out that some of them are responsible for the condition of their fellow black and brown Brazilians? What is the alternative? Who else is responsible for their position? Not all White Brazilians, but some certainly are as are those brown and black folks who collaborate in the system. If that is promoting antagonism I am guilty.

What if I consistently robbed you and your family E Harmony and otherwise treated you like dirt while turning around and saying we are still one happy family? And one day Mark Wells points out to you I am not treating you good. You would blame Mark Wells for promoting ANTAGONISM? Good grief........

President Lula is not black and he came up as hard as any black or mulatto Brazilian and twice as hard in poverty and means of labor than former President Clinton. Poverty in Brazil does not just chew on the Brazilians of black skin. Brazil has a problem of creating and keeping middle class paying jobs, by that I mean, the creation of enough that the demand is there to lure and employ most Brazilians in said middle class level paying work. Cuba has spent more effort than the U.S. in overthrowing the ancient regime of "white pride" and her manifestation within the organizational structures of capitalism. Yet Cuba has many people of color living below a referenced middle class lifestyle. Nigeria is oil rich, black run, has a huge diversity of black ethnic groups from all over Africa, and many Nigerians have ethnic pride and know their ethnic and or tribal histories to which many have some intimate connection - yet large numbers of black Nigerians live in poverty. Romania, Bosnia, Russia, most the earth... has poverty issues. Most Latin American countries like Brazil aren't even considered "Developed Nations" and they industrialized later than the United States, hence this plays a great roll in why so many dark skinned peoples in a country like Brazil have not been thrust into a socio-economic culture of what we would call "upward mobility."

Brazil needs to put money and effort into economically uplifting all her peoples and not just "black peoples" or not just "mulatto peoples." Bring everyone - every g*d**mn Brazilian - to the mystical water font of life: Mixed, transsexual, morena, robust, preta, or ill of health.

even though i love my brazilian women and am so proud of their beauty... outside of Brazil they're all seen as slut and as whores who walk around in thongs and bikinis... which a lot of them do.... but it doesnt mean that they are. and its true that on TV all we see is afro-brazilian women half naked... i was watching that REDE RECORD the other day and they showed some beautiful dark skinned woman half naked and dancing samba and the only thing the host of the show saw was her body she could have been a student of some sort. once again someone has written another article that puts my country down. but one thing is for sure, BLACKS ARE TREATED THE SAME EVERY WHERE IN THE WORLD. In the USA they just fought harder for their rights but it hasnt changed much.

There are lots of African-American people in the States who are openly racist and it is time they are pointed out as such by their black borthers. It is very sad, not to be accused to go against "brotherhood", intelligent Black people are afraid to distance themselves from these ignorant morons who're only happy with spreading their hatred and educating their youth with the very same hatred. These guys are not fighting segregation, they love every bit of it because they just want to be as rich as the white man (gold chains big car) but totally separate from "the white man" who's responsible of everything evil that has happened in human history to the black man (50% true but not 100%) : crack abuse destroyng the black communities, black women being left alone as soon as they get pregnant (single parent families), black males killing other young black males, Hip Hop culture celebrating gangs, guns, the sluttiness of women (read big asses moving) over family values, education as being "whitey or sell out". It's never ever an individual responsability for them, it's always the white man plotting in secret rooms in Washington against them. Just to be reasured. The few Black promionent persons who tried to point that like Bill Cosby were bashed, it's much easier to be safe for teh majority of intelligetn black people and go on with accusing the white specter for everything. My idea is that it's only responsible for 50% of it.

Preserving "black" heritage (I'd rather use the term afro-american for the respect of Black people in the US who're not afro-americans)

Unfortunately what I have said is true: there are lots of African-American people in the States who are *openly* racist and it is time they are pointed out as such without fear by their black brothers and white intellectuals. It is very sad that, not to be accused to go against "brotherhood", intelligent Black people are afraid to distance themselves from these ignorant morons who're only happy with spreading their hatred and "educating" their black youth with the very same hatred. These guys are not fighting segregation, they love every bit of it because they just want to be as rich as the white man (gold chains big car) but totally separate from "the white man" who is responsible of everything evil that has happened in human history to the black man (not including Bill Cosby, Oprah & Condi) (50% true but not 100%): crack abuse destroyng the black communities, black women being left alone as soon as they get pregnant (single parent families), black males killing other young black males, Hip Hop culture celebrating in awe gangs, falshy guns, big cars, the sluttiness of women over family values, education (studying by some of this morons makes you a "whitey" or "sell out"). It is never ever an individual responsability for these racists, it's always the white man plotting in secret rooms in Washington against them. Just to be reassured and go on as usual. The few Black prominent persons who tried to point that out like Bill Cosby were bashed through the media, so a lesson was learnt , it's much easier to be safe for the 99% majority of intelligent black people and go on with accusing the white specter for everything instead of kick the ass of thsi 1% segregationist morons. The white specter does exist but it's only responsible for 50% of it and it breeds from the very same racism of Black supremacists bamboozling people's mind with anything white. They're even trashing Black college rep**ation abroad by saying idiot things like Cleopatra was black (her parents were macedonian greek...) instead of focusing on the real beaitiful african history of the kindoms of central Africa. ah!

Preserving "black" heritage (I'd rather use the term afro-american for the respect of Black people in the US who're not afro-americans)

You guys all crack me up, all your intellectual bulls**t, analyze, analzye and analzye some more. It's pretty funny. The situation is what is is, segregartion works, always has always will, those that think of this colorless utopia where everone lives together and watches Bill Cosby and sing country music are smoking crack. As a rule, the majority of blacks live in black neighborhods, Mexican's live in Mexican neighborhods, Brazilians live in Brazilian neighborhoods, whites live in white neighborhods. Assimimilate is bulls**t, they build beachheads by opening cafes, stores and othe small business that cater to their resective cultures. Crime is not usually black on white, or hispanic against Latin, it's usually against the community among their own people. Of course there are execptions, but this is usually organized crime or gand related. In general people are very happy within their neighborhoods...there is no desire "to move on up to white" neighborhoods, how boring would that be? Over the last several hundered years, Americans have learned to "respect" if not understand different cultures. So all of you talking about white supremacists or black supremacists are just plain full of s**t, they don't exist except in some harmless teenagers club. There is only one real racial (actually it's religion) threat in the US, that is the Muslim community in Dearborn MI, that is a community that wishes to do us all harm, brown, black and white, but other than that...this is America. It's as good as it gets compared with anywhere else in the world.

Savo, we all know that. That's why brazilians are saying you are sick people and we don't want this segregation crap in here.

It's as good as it gets compared with anywhere else in the world.

I am not sure what "as good as it gets" mean , but such a segregated society sounds more like "Hell on Earth" to me.

I will repeat my earlier request Luca which black Americans, specifically are you talking about? Who is advocating segregation and hatred of whites? The pathologies you describe apply to about the 20% of blacks who are poor; the remaining 80% are either working class or middle class but these folks just live their lives like everybody else and do not get as much attention on the nightly news.

And where did you hear that Bill Cosby and others got bashed by most blacks and the media for their comments? That is not in accordance with what I have seen and I am black and live in the U.S. Are you talking about the response to him from blowhards like Michael Eric Dyson? Most Americans blacks or whites pay no attention to people like him. And you should not associate hip hop culture and thugs and scantily dressed women with the whole black community. They are no more representative of the black community than the Corleones and Sopranos are representative of the Italian American community.

You all just don't get it...WE WANT SEGREGATION! Why the hell would we want to live with a bunch of redneck, boring puritan white folks. We like it just the way it is, our neighborhoods here are just like back home, our elders still don't speak English and they have been here for decades, we have our food, our dance, our work and our culture. Sounds like hell to you? Not me, sounds like paradise. We get all the benefits of home and all the benefits of the US like higher wages, security, education, healthcare...and we get it for free because most of us are not even paying taxes...thank you America, we appreciate everything you have GIVEN us, this would never have happened in the places we came from. Let's support segregation, who the hell wants to live like the Walton's up north, with their fat women scheduling "play days" for the pussy kids. You won't here me bitching about segratgation, there is still 10 times more opportunity for me and my friends and family here. Assimilate...Yeah Right

Sounds like hell to you? Not me, sounds like paradise.

Your mind is broken, thinking this way you won't be able to improve yourself because of racism, the very same thing you complain about the "rednecks". You see, you and the rednecks have more in common than you would like to admit.

There are many things worth learning from all peoples, I only wish I had more time to learn more. I guess this is the difference between hispanics and brazilians.

Let's support segregation, who the hell wants to live like the Walton's up north...

I hope all your wishes come to fruition. Then I will watch the mess from my couch here in Brazil.

You could stop baiting A Brazilian, PPLL. In another post you said you don´t pay taxes to Tallahassee. Sometimes it takes me awhile to figure things out. I may not be the sharpest knife in the case. But even the homeless pay sales taxes, when they get enough panhandling to go down and buy their newest bottle of Thunderbird. Which makes me wonder if maybe irony or sarcasm or downright prevarication has somehow worked itself into this blog. I hope not, because that would be a shame. But your comment casts doubt on your credibility. I hope that doesn´t make you feel bad. Unless it´s true.

I know perfectly it is a matter of percentages, what I meant is that you cannot blame the white specter all the time for all the problems affecting the black community, otherwise you turn decades of battle against racism and segregation in the politics of victimhood. And unlike YOU (read below) I do not associate *poor* Black people to crime.
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I think poor blacks should finally understand that they do NOT share the same problems of midde-class Blacks and the Oprah billionaires and should thus drop all the "black segregationist" agenda and take up some class action with other poor whites & poor latinos and form a bigger and thus stronger political action group. It is stupid that poor people with the same problems and different skin colors are not fighting together to the joy of US elites ("divide et impera" divide & rule an old trick or Ancient Rome political action ). Progressive taxation, union rights and the funding of social programs are neither Black nor White. And it's also time that Black intellectuals start criticise the horrible way in which *some* Black hip-hop rappers, singers depict Black people to the world.



As for the American-Italian community in the States *some* of them are linked to organized crime and the Sopranos .

Here's your sentence I mentioned in my post above
The American Historian, 2007-02-09 14:28:37
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The pathologies you describe apply to about the 20% of blacks who are poor;
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As for the American-Italian community being depicted as mafia members in the Sopranos I do not hide that as it is true that some American-Italian and some Italians in Southern Italy are affiliated with organized crime.

Most U.S. blacks do not blame all of the problems of the black community on whites, though some of the most vocal leaders seem to give others the impression they do.
Many of those leaders speak on behalf of specific organizations that represent the views of a segment of the black community. Like any community we are not monolithic. I of course have no problem with your suggestion folks should unite across color lines for better public policies.

Any wherever you go, the white man will use his racism! Here in the US, many claim they're "part indian", but seem to always want to be white when questioned!
Brazil needs to be overthrown, and all whites driven out! Whites have never made it good for others, only themselves. The white man is the devil.! You must always remember that!

The above poster can only be joking. But why would they need to make it good for anyone else but themselves? Can't you make things good for yourself by yourself?

I think the very term Whites may be objectionable to the only truly whites, the albinos. Those who are called whites are usually just pink or tan.

Why are albinos treated with disdain in the movies, like the Da Vinci Code and others? What about the albinoism in the ES Pomeranians? Why is Pink Eye the term used to describe a condition, since albinos actually have pink eyes and may be healthy.

Why are old chevy pickups called Da Vincis?

Why should all whites be diven out? Why can´t they drive themselves? As a group the have more vehicles per capita than the blacks do.

crazy and interesting well about the models and the Carnaval why do u think man from all over the world go to brazil for the white women hell noo you know why am saying that cause i was raised a white family and have white friends all my life you know why they go to brazil so see the excoit women from dark to mix etc not for white women the only reason brazil is famouse for is the Carnaval and they there women such excoit looking ones plus isn't the carnaval and the samba brazil is famosue for come from the slaves thats why they go maybe white brazils might want to re think treating blacks that why if brazil was just a white i do not think the culture would be as interetsing the music the food people must as well go to europe for that

You are so right, Janessa. Good point.

You write awfully bad. I can't understand what you write. Just a guess, maybe you should use commas and periods, that would be a start. Then organizing your thoughts and sentences in a logical manner, it would help.

If you ever studied ancient languages, Abe, the lack of punctuation would seem normal.

You write just fine Janessa so pay no attention to the mean old A Brazilian. Life is tough for him having to defend that which can't be defended. If you can find out who he is, take him to the beach or Carnival and tell him to chill out (which means to relax or calm down). This man is too uptight. I hear he tried to become a leader of the Taliban, but even radical Muslims said he was too negative and difficult to be around.
So don't take what he says personally.

What I heard is that his mother wanted him to be a Padre.

You write just fine Janessa...

Fine for a 4 years old, you mean. People should be more careful about the language usage, because that's power.

Although typing fast in forums like these between one task and another will inevitably lead to typos and small mistakes, that is definetely not her case.

Definetly not.

As you say, we all make mistakes, especially me, never learned to type right, possibly Linotype/Intertype confusion.

I am not brazilian, but i am black. I was raised to beleive that everyone has a soul a mind a heart and indiviuality. I see being black as being beautiful exotic, different. Society brainwashes into thinking that being lighter skinned is right , and beingdark is evil. This is not the case , First off from the very first day Africans were approached by europeans, they were fed these lies, that if you have light skin "european features" you are better. This poison that was fed and manifested throughout the years has plagued African Americans as a race, there are to many hypocrytical things that white people do to be black, get a tan if your proud to be white flaunt it dont get under a lamp to get dark if its so bad to be black be proud to be caucasoid. dont put collagen injections in your butt or your lips be proud to be white. When being of African decent these subtle things come naturally for us.. In slavery times we were oppressed because of what Europeans had seen in Africa before we were boarded on ships, so they burned our history, spread lies to christians sayng that we are homosapiens(monkeys), Its like seeing someone with something that you want you feel threatened look at Egypt and the great Pharoas and pyramids. All of the Kingdoms, the origin of life started in mother Africa. Africans didn't volunteer to be slaves, to be stripped of their history, or from thir families, being sold and looked at as if they were cattle..When in fact if we were supposed to be animals wouldn't Jesus have made us as such, he made everyone in his sight. So all this racism is a ideology that is only fueled by those who feel threatened, and those that dont understand that we all are people.

well no comment, brazil is the best place and has the best carnival