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We Are All Brazilians, All Mixed, and Racists All the Same PDF Print E-mail
Written by Vânia Penha-Lopes   
Thursday, 05 July 2007 13:42

Blacks in Brazil From the end of the 1930s till his death in 1995, the anthropologist Ashley Montagu alerted us that the biological concept of races as distinct groupings that could be classified as superior and inferior was a mistake. Therefore, the news that "Genetics shows that each human being is unique and contests races in Brazil" (my translation), which appeared in O Globo recently, does not surprise me.

The novelty is this interest in genetics to demonstrate correctly that, biologically, races do not exist just when in Brazil the (equally not so new) thesis that the social concept of race is powerful enough to organize the structures of societies and determine people's quality of life picks up strength.

Demétrio Magnoli, a Brazilian sociologist, argues that "popular racism, mass racial hatred, doesn't exist in Brazil." I argue that such mass racism has been suppressed by effective practices that keep so-called blacks in their "proper places," i.e., outside of competition with so-called whites.

There are plenty of examples, such as the "good appearance" requirement (read "whites") for employees who might have contact with the public, the low salaries for blacks with the same education and experience as whites, the barring of blacks from clubs, and the ubiquitous idea that individuals with darker skin are at once less intelligent and prone to crime.

The demand for affirmative action policies would be an instance of blacks getting out of their pre-determined social places by pointing to the unequal treatment to which they are subjected.

Actually, we are talking about another theme, also well explored: the existence of two Brazils. In one, the descendants of phenotypically white immigrants enjoy the privilege of ignoring race; in the other, where I live, skin color and negroid features take over any other characteristics, such as way of dressing, education, and occupation.

I have plenty of examples: although I was thrice the best student at a famous English-teaching school here in Rio, I grew up hearing that blacks aren't capable of learning foreign languages. Last year, I was on my way to a bank; ahead of me was a white woman. The moment she looked back and saw me, she retarded her pace and held her bag more firmly. I took out my card from my pocket and left it visible.

Only then did she relax and got into the bank. I suspect that, because I was casually dressed in a T-shirt and shorts, I was seen as a potential thief. However, being well-dressed is no guarantee of decent treatment: more recently, I was prevented from entering a cocktail party to which I had been invited thus: "The bathroom is over there." Because I insisted that I was not looking for the bathroom, the "woman bouncer" decided to ask for my invitation, after having emphasized that it was a closed event.

Finally, when I was visiting a college where I had already been introduced as a professor and researcher, I was announced as "a girl wishing to speak to a professor." The tragedy is that, just as all of that has happened to me, it certainly happens to innumerable Brazilians who look like me. The moral of the story is, there is a stigma in being black in Brazil.

There is a name for that: racism. Simply speaking, racism is the ideology of racial superiority, regardless of how races are defined. That ideology may manifest itself as prejudice, discrimination, or a combination of the two.

By the way, as prejudice is the pre-judgment of an entire category of people, having it is not particular to the white elite. Even mestiços can harbor prejudice and discriminate, such as when Brazilians conveniently omit their black grandparents from their genealogy by avoiding mentioning them or by hiding their pictures.

Discrimination, i.e., treating persons differentially, may or may not occur together with prejudice. Historical data describe how the Brazilian post-slavery immigration policies favored Europeans and the Japanese, but not the Chinese. The justification was that, with so many blacks already here, we didn't need "the Chinaman."

Are we all Brazilian? Yes. Are we mixed? Yes. Unfortunately, that fact doesn't prevent our being treated unequally. As the phenomenologists suggest, there are several "realities," worldviews created out of our social status.

Let us, thus, respect the reality of those who are discriminated against or who are prejudged due to the color of their skin. When their opinions have more weight, perhaps the debate will become more balanced. At least till then, let us stop pontificating that "we are not racist."

Vânia Penha-Lopes, a native of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, has a Ph.D. in sociology from New York University. She is an associate professor of sociology at Bloomfield College, in New Jersey. Penha-Lopes is also a columnist at Afropress, a Brazilian online publication.

Comments (139)Add Comment
striders get back to your rubber room
written by FORREST ALLEN BROWN, July 06, 2007
yes brasilians all belad the same blod
breath the same air
eat the same foods
share the same land

but it stops there .
without the right name you are out
with out money , you are out .
with out
Vânia...
written by bo, July 06, 2007
be careful publishing stories like this here in brazzil.com If you talk to people like "Abe Razillion Deniar" he will argue with you and swear on his soul that racism does NOT exist in brazil! And will tell you how things are "so much worse" in the United States. You seem to have experience in both, can you elaborate?
...
written by A brazilian, July 06, 2007
The problem with such anecdotal evidence is that it can't be proven. I could tell you some cases where some black thought I was being racist when I wasn't. For example, one day I called a laudry shop to pick some carpets at my home and clean them, and the guy that came to pick them up was as black as coal. But there was a problem, he didn't bring any ticket for me to retrieve the carpets later. Well, I didn't want him to take the carpets, not because I thought he would steal them, but because I was worried they would lose my stuff and I wouldn't have how to prove they had something mine later. And the guy started acting as if I was being racist. The biggest problem is that you always think people are looking at you because you are black, or everything they do has to do with the fact that you are black.

The violence is a problem, and I always get worried when I see people dressed like a favelado. Not because I care about fashion, but because I never know if I am going to be robbed.

Right now there's almost no debate over affirmative action in Brazil, and black movements are unheard of. I have only heard of them when the police raids some favela and they denounce "excessive use of force" for you to have an idea. The whole discussion gravitates around the "university quotas" and they never consider the big picture. On one side the black racists argue that they have been kept outside of the society, using some very dubious statistics, and on the other the current university students whine that this is unfair. Idiot vs. idiot. I am not against quotas, I am against black quotas. Using race in laws is institutionalizing racism, and the worst part is that is a racism a la americana, something completely alien to this country.

The "we are all mixed" talk is something from the previous president, before Lula, by that time Brazil turned 500 and they paid for a genetic research about the Brazilian. Needless to say that the results were to support the idea that all Brazilians are mixed, but that has been contested many times over already. The statistics were a bit manipulated and the conclusion was completely baseless.

The problem with this talk is that it implies "pure races". It's a way of infiltrating racism, as the blacks dream of, without forcing the "black" label on others. You may not be supporting their cause, but by saying "we are all mixed" you are agreeing with their obsolete theories. I don't think how the person sees himself matters at all.

Another interesting fact is that I have seen occasionally some very profuse support of the black movement (it was on the BBC internet forum) coming from... "white power" individuals. Their reasoning is that blacks should feel proud of their origins, because they are also proud of theirs. So if you rise one "pride" you are also rising the other. Furthermore, increasing the notion of a "black identity" will inevitably draw clearer lines about what is white and will make the notion of "white identity" rise as well. The end result would be Brazil to become just like the "Disunited States of America", i.e., a country filled with "ethnicities", that are "proud" and don't like living together, because that's the "natural order of things".

If you analyze the statistics in no way blacks are segregated. They are only 7% of the population, dropping from 15%. For you to have an idea, all races dropped significantly, and the only one that has risen was the "mixed" one, i.e., a generic term to designate all kinds of mixing between all others. All statistics about homicide involving blacks don't support racism, because in order for them to be racism you would need to prove that the killer was non-black and had racial hatred motivations. Most blacks are killed by blacks. How is this racism?

José Bonifácio, the patriarch of the independece, defended in his works (around 182x) the abolition of the slavery and the miscigenation as a way of keeping the country "one" and to avoid the fate of the Spanish America, which fragmented in many small countries. He said lots of things as projects for this country, and this was one of those things. So, as you see, in the 19th century, at the same time that in the rest of the world the scientific racism was rising, in Brazil it was already known, by one of the most influential person of his time, that miscigenation wasn't a bad thing.

There's no such thing of "positive racism", racism is racism. Bringing this obsolete filth to Brazil is everything the neo-nazis would love to see!
Abe
written by GTY, July 06, 2007
Why should we even try and respond to your outdated and racist dribble. You arguments regarding Affirmative Action, black on black crime, and all people of color in Brazil are doing just fine thank you...are a load of crap. These are the same arguments our Rednecks make in the south. Now I am sure you will come back with "GTY the Hispanic" why not just GTY, because you are more of a racist than the average Brazilian, your pathetic sterotypes regarding people of color prove it. Especaily those that are doing much better than you. Do you really RUN from the favelados? Even the white ones? How many are white? 2%? Just this statement alone proves you are part of the problem, not the solution.

In your so called "Disgruntled States" we know and admit that racism is a problem, in fact it is a problem world wide. Your position that it is not a problem in Brazil is close minded and frankly, moronicaly uneducated. Brazils racial history is as bad or worse than the United States, here we address the problem as best we can...there, well you just run from it. Also, just so you know, the Supreme Court just struck down racial quotas or advantages for school entrance. How does a black person get into you lilly white private schools? Or are they stuck with the world class, top notch Brazilian public school system?

It's funny, you are so quick to react to questions and discussion of racism in Brazil it usually means you are trying to hide your own bloodline for some reason. Say it loud Abe "You are black and proud!!"
RASCISM IS BEING ERADICATED IN BRAZIL
written by Paulo Cunha, July 06, 2007
Thanks to our beloved President Lula.
Not For Real
written by GTY, July 06, 2007
Paulo...your a fake.
GTY: The Hispanic
written by A brazilian, July 06, 2007
Your position that it is not a problem in Brazil is close minded and frankly, moronicaly uneducated. Brazils racial history is as bad or worse than the United States...


You have accomplished something amazing, in 2 lines you have made yourself look more ridiculous than anyone else could ever do. In the first phrase you call Brazilians uneducated and in the second phrase you say we have worse problems than the USA (!), I guess you have never heard about "one drop rule", eugenics funded by the government, scientific racism, and other things the americans were involved with up to the 60s. At least officially involved, but some are still involved today! Now who is the moronically uneducated !? Hahahahaha.

I always call you "the Hispanic" so you remember what you are and your role in the american society. Weren't you the one that said you were proud of it, Hispanic?

It's funny, you are so quick to react to questions and discussion of racism in Brazil...


I am quick to react to any stupidity posted on this site because the wrong image would be passed wordwide as "the truth".
In one line
written by GTY, July 06, 2007
"I always call you "the Hispanic" so you remember what you are and your role in the american society."

In one line you prove EXACTLY what Bo and I have been saying about you all along. You are a RACIST, all RACIST's deny that racism exists.

I didn't say the US is better than Brazil...but in the US people of different ethnic backgrounds and races are doing much better than Brazil's. I am sure I could buy and sell you and your pobre family 5 times..and still have plenty of pesos left over for tacos.

By the way, I didn't say all Brazilians were uneducated...JUST YOU.

Watch out for those Favelado's, they are sure to take your money, your such a pussy and easy mark. I'll bet this 1/2 Mexican could take your money too!
Abe
written by GTY, July 06, 2007
"Weren't you the one that said you were proud of it, Hispanic? "

Yep...that was me.
GTY: The Hispanic
written by A brazilian, July 06, 2007
You don't seem to have self-confidence. smilies/smiley.gif
Ahh
written by GTY, July 06, 2007
Instead of Abe, you are now Adolph. Can't argue my points can you? Weak minded too...but we already knew that.
viva la raza
written by FORREST ALLEN BROWN, July 06, 2007
as far as your beloved LULA you must be sleeoing with him
walk among your people only 12% of the people think they have or are better off sence he took office ,

in the US we all know what a racsit is and we are working on them the whole country

you dont see the KKK , skinheads , black panthers , out in force as it use to be .

as we as a people under one flag and many gods have see the rule of life
and are working on it
no longer is it just the whites that can be racists people of color can also be

and the statment know your place in socity well just look at our country mexicans , latinos , tahnios , wet backs have travled up the ladder of sucess in the US to own well for one uinvision , started by a mexican amercian who came to the US the rong way buit a life and company known world wide .

bob vila , cuban amercian same thing started out on the rong foot and built it up to TV star.

are you starting to see a pattern here

we are all of different colors , races , relogons ,
held togeather by the second most important document ever written
under a flag that gives you the right to complain , about our goverment , burn ou,r flag protest
and as long as it is peicefull you have no fear of jail .

while in brasil well you try talking about the congress you can be sued , and sent to jail .
burn the brasilian flag you go to jail ,
build a company in brasil , but you can never becom a brasilian , you are always a estrangio

my wife has been up here for a few weeks now and can see the difference in the way
people not only treat her but the way people just say hi to each other on the streets , drive .

interaction of all peoples from all over the world here in the states

so brasilian ask your self if we are so much of a racist country why do people take the chance of dieing to get here
they could just go to brasil where it does not exist




...
written by Paulo Cunha, July 06, 2007
Paulo...your a fake.


smilies/wink.gif
...
written by Paulo Cunha, July 06, 2007
as far as your beloved LULA you must be sleeoing with him


Sir, I dont recall this romantic encounter.
Vânia Penha-Lopes
written by João da Silva, July 06, 2007
Vania, the brazians can yell and scream that we are not racists. It is not true and being a brown skinned heroe (like GTY), I must confess that I have confronted this problem all through my life.Mistaken by the bloody Argentines (who are more racists than we are) in a shopping mall for a shoe salesman. Then you have that Gilberto Gil (What the hell is he doing to integrate the races?) being a minister and doing NOTHING.It is a sad state of affairs.

A Brazilan is a good fella,but he is just like a cat that closes its eyes and thinks that the entire world is DARK.

btw, we have gone through this debate before and I just wanted to say my final piece!
Typical American Frame of Mind...
written by Costinha, July 06, 2007
They judge everybody based on their own obsession with religion, race, sexual preference and then some....
What have choice can also choose not to judge
written by Simpleton, July 06, 2007
Put all that you wish down Costernatada, none will rise to your call. Blindness comes in many forms, that of AB whose eyes are closed or refuse to see, mine which see all too well in ways quite unexpected as they begin to fail with age but were not burned beyond capability for open unbiased perception due to having been blindered, isolated and protected from such things as a child. Say not ALL, say not ALWAYS, say not EVERYONE, say not NONE, say not NEVER, say not FOREVER, Costinha. What fire has burned you you should learn from but only to avoid again, your disfigurement from what flames you suffered where be they the accepted 'loving' guidance absorbed quite unknowingly from your nearest family or terror hurled your way from next door or from afar, these need not be drivers for the illness and words you choose to spew into your future.
Paulo Cunha
written by João da Silva, July 06, 2007
Tu és nordestino?.Escreve bem inglés.
costinha
written by FORREST ALLEN BROWN, July 06, 2007
so we should judge people like most brasilianmen do

petos , bunda , money , looks , and what can her family and friends do for me .

i am not saying it does not exist in the US but it is not as out frount

and why is it bad to judge people by the company they keep
where as you do the above
I myself have found persons that put the good will foward to others are the ones i can trust .

as my wife has told me dont trust any one
that is not in my nature
with out trust you can never have true love , and with out love you have no real life
costinha
written by FORREST ALLEN BROWN, July 06, 2007
so we should judge people like most brasilianmen do

petos , bunda , money , looks , and what can her family and friends do for me .

i am not saying it does not exist in the US but it is not as out frount

and why is it bad to judge people by the company they keep
where as you do the above
I myself have found persons that put the good will foward to others are the ones i can trust .

as my wife has told me dont trust any one
that is not in my nature
with out trust you can never have true love , and with out love you have no real life
Viva Forest
written by GTY, July 07, 2007
Muchas gracias mi amigo! Viva La Raza and the USA.
Racial Classification
written by San Antonio, July 07, 2007
I've heard about Brazil and an affirmative action type "afro-descendante" program in the works. That would be very interesting to see in a country where not many people are of any one pure race. Most African-Americans are of mixed race too (though most African Americans don't like to acknowledge that - obviously because of the history of how that came to be) but are recognized in American society as blacks so I see its workability in the U.S. but Brazil??? I have never been to Brazilian and but have met many Brazilians. While I am yet to meet a real white Brazilian, I am yet to meet a real black one too. Brazil, curiously, says its mulatto population is about 35%. How could that be? Mulatto is for the most part a one generation race and eventually gets absorbed usually back into the black race. Is Mulatto in Brazil a generic term for anyone who's got black and white genes regardless of composition? It's often used in that respect in West Africa. Before the affirmative action system can be implemented, racial categories may have to be redefined in order to apply it failry. I bet a lot of the so-called Mulattoes would all of a sudden start to acknowledge their African heritage that is so often ignored.
...
written by conceicao, July 07, 2007
Let's not let this topic go by without discussing the "racist" machinations of the CBF who diabolically have employed two white coaches - Dunga and Jorghino - who have proceeded to play as many as
seven preto players - Maicon, Juan, Gilberto, Mineiro, Anderson, Robinho and Vagner Love - at one time in the Copa America with the "whitest" starting position player last game being Josue. This all after seeing the obvious racial superiority exhibited by the Portuguese and Italians in the last World Cup. And what about Ze Roberto - Mr. Black Empowerment himself - who quit the team right before the
event on the grounds that he and his family would feel safer living in Europe? And how about the way Anderson with his dreadlocks and Vagner Love with his hairbeads are being culturally oppressed by the dominant white power structure? How about a little affirmative action for white soccer players? Surely the team couldn't play any worse.
university study
written by FORREST ALLEN BROWN, July 07, 2007
states as the worlds people move about more and inner bred

the color of the world population will change from 5 colors to one mabey two

over the next 100 years

with as the french call it cafe ol lay mulata, with light eyes , dark hair , mid to large brest and butts
women avrage hight will be 5' 6" 145 weight

so what we are trying to repair we will become later on in the history fo the world
Let's not let this topic go by...
written by bo, July 07, 2007
..
written by conceicao, 2007-07-07 01:47:01
Let's not let this topic go by without discussing the "racist" machinations of the CBF who diabolically have employed two white coaches - Dunga and Jorghino - who have proceeded to play as many as
seven preto players - Maicon, Juan, Gilberto, Mineiro, Anderson, Robinho and Vagner Love - at one time in the Copa America with the "whitest" starting position player last game being Josue. This all after seeing the obvious racial superiority exhibited by the Portuguese and Italians in the last World Cup. And what about Ze Roberto - Mr. Black Empowerment himself - who quit the team right before the
event on the grounds that he and his family would feel safer living in Europe? And how about the way Anderson with his dreadlocks and Vagner Love with his hairbeads are being culturally oppressed by the dominant white power structure? How about a little affirmative action for white soccer players? Surely the team couldn't play any worse.



by posting this headline!! I'm laughing my ass off!!

Brasil perde, mas ainda pode ir às oitavas
Estados Unidos vencem por 2 a 1 e deixam seleção em terceiro. Polônia pega a Argentina
smilies/shocked.gif
conceicao
written by GTY, July 07, 2007
I wish we had the Brazilian preto players on our team! Maybe we could win a match or two. You are confusing sports with politics. Brazilian's demand that their football team win, Dunga has to field his best team, just because that does not include many white faces does not mean he is racist, just a good coach. It's his ass, if he loses, he is gone and he knows it. In fact, as a player and coach Dunga has lived most of his life with Brazilian's of color, he is the last person that should be accused of racism, I am sure when it comes to his job, he is color blind. For all of your complaints and after one stumble, Brazil will win the Copa America with young players with few Caps. How about Kaka, he choose to miss the games, where is the critisizm of him. Pele, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Robino, Adriano, Romario, Roberto Carlos...OK, they are black...so what? Brazil cherishis them and regards all of them as heros.

Now help me understand this. The US now has a huge Latino / Hispanic community and has had for decades, millions of second generation footballers who start playing shortly after they are born, my 10 year old is one of them 1/2 Brazilian, 1/2 Gringo, already playing for a Division 1 Adidas Elite team. Why then, has the US National Team been so white? This seems to be finally changing now, with several black players and Chin, an Asian American from Hawaii. But where are the Latino's?

Youth Soccer in the USA is a sport played primarily in the upper and middle class white neighborhoods, there is little effort to organize lower class urban neighborhoods like the areas that have turned out the best Brazilian players. And can you really fault a young black Brazilian player for not wanting to put his family in harms way. Was it not Robino's mother who was kiddnapped in the favela while he was playing in Europe, he paid a ransom to get her out. I think this has happened to other black player as well. I don't see where someone who puts there family in front of football is a bad person.
...
written by conceicao, July 07, 2007
GTY, I disagree with a lot of your analysis of Brasilian football - particularly the notion that Roberto Carlos is widely regarded as a hero. However, your point about the exclusion of Hispanic players from the U.S. development system could not be more accurate in my opinion. The behavior of the U.S. federation reminds me of the way the tennis and skating federations are run with whites, Asians and those
from more affluent backgrounds in general being given priority over more talented athletes all for the greater glory of the organizers who above all want to remain comfortably in charge. The success of
the women's team - based on suburban white girl affirmative action through Title IX - has something to do with it. (I pray that the Samba Princesses take them down this September after having the last
Olympic final stolen.) And, the rivalry with Mexico is another big factor - no doubt that there is a lot of hatred of Mexicans embedded in the U.S. organization. The makeup of the national youth teams is a
complete joke and getting worse. I actually think the quickest path to success for the U.S. on the international level is the complete exclusion of Anglos from the development process or giving
California and/or Texas and/or Florida their own youth teams and then letting the players earn their spots purely on talent.
TO:GTY
written by João da Silva, July 07, 2007
You leaving tomorrow or on Monday?
conceicao
written by GTY, July 07, 2007
"And, the rivalry with Mexico is another big factor - no doubt that there is a lot of hatred of Mexicans embedded in the U.S. organization. "

A very good point and one I didn't consider. There is a rivalry that borders on excessive and a player of Mexican heritage competing on the US National team would be chastised by his team mates and the Mexican's living in the US as well, a tough spot for any Mexican/American player with talent.

Still is is amazing and I witness it almost everyday. My sons play Divison 1 in Boca Raton, they are a very competative youth soccer club, but when they play the Spanish speaking teams of Doral, North Miami or Homestead, they are not ready for how physical these teams are and almost always lose to them in the semi of final rounds. And still, the players selcted from our programs to go on to ODP are usually from the affluent white clubs...Bruce Arena shares much of the blame, I don't believe he could relate to Hispanic players. And selected only whites and a few blacks for youth development.

"The success of
the women's team - based on suburban white girl affirmative action through Title IX - has something to do with it. (I pray that the Samba Princesses take them down this September after having the last
Olympic final stolen.) "

Again, a very good and accurate point. Title lX changed the face of women's soccer. The additional scholership money had to go somewhere and football is really the only sport besides basketball that can possibly generate revenue for colleges. The women's program continues to be much stronger than the men's for many reasons. But the main reason is that there is much less scholership money in men's football than women's. Therefore, most of the really good football players, all of whom are premier atheleics, swith to American football, basketball or track in highschool where there is more money for scholerships. Still, I will be cheering for our ladies, while I will also cheer for the "Samba Queens" I am still an American.

"I actually think the quickest path to success for the U.S. on the international level is the complete exclusion of Anglos from the development process or giving
California and/or Texas and/or Florida their own youth teams and then letting the players earn their spots purely on talent. "

I agree 100%! This is the way football clubs and national teams are built worldwide. It creates a much more competative enviroment and allows good players to stand out and prevents mediocre players from finding a place to hide, no matter what their racial or financial background.

Still, I don't understand your point about black football players in Brazil. It is almost the opposite there. Affluent lighter skinned Brazilians usually have an economic advantage, therefore they spend less time kicking around a football and more time in school, traveling or developing other interests, sure they all have their favorite clubs and route hard, but most of them could not compete. On the other hand, football is a way of life in the poorer areas, both urban and rural, it is a communality found throughout Brazil. You can see it everywhere you travel. It is quite simple, except for a small percentege, the best players are black, I am not sure how anyone could argue different and I applaud Brazil for fielding there best teams...they have if you havn't noticed, had pretty damned good success. Success that any other country would be happy to have.
Hi Joao
written by GTY, July 07, 2007
Tomorrow, but just for a house hunting trip, will be back in Florida late next week. Lot's of lose ends to tie up, movers, real estate agents, so on. I hate moving, but I am looking forward to going back to California. I think I will be "offically" there the first week of August.
GTY
written by João da Silva, July 07, 2007
I hate moving, but I am looking forward to going back to California


So do I.But the life is like that.I am sure that your lovely Brazilian wife is organizing everything. btw,California is not bad at all and happy to know you will be back in your own state and not too far from San Diego.You have a safe trip and keep in touch.
...
written by conceicao, July 07, 2007
My comments about the racial make-up of the Brasilian team are mainly satire. I think that Dunga's team that beat Argentina had five white starters for example.
GYT
written by FORREST ALLEN BROWN, July 07, 2007
will you be able to live without

cubans and porto ricanios

telling you how bad the mexicans are

but you will miss the greek salads ,

but fishing on the slow rolls in the west coast are grate
Lots to miss
written by GTY, July 07, 2007
I have know many Cubans and Ricans that I call my friends, and I am going to miss the pelagic fishing in the Stream, but am looking forward to the change of pace Northern California will bring, including many days out on the bay or points past drifting a live anchovy.
...
written by e harmony, July 07, 2007
Discrimination, i.e., treating persons differentially, may or may not occur together with prejudice. Historical data describe how the Brazilian post-slavery immigration policies favored Europeans and the Japanese, but not the Chinese. The justification was that, with so many blacks already here, we didn't need "the Chinaman."


I believe racial issues - racism - exists in Brazil. I think it does in all the colonized lands of Europeans as well as all over the world to some less or greater extent. I think Brazil is a better place racial relations wise than most places on earth - that includes regions of Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East.

Being a U.S. mulatto I grew up essentially caught in between two worlds. This in away gives a person a chance to think from a point of no specific chosen side per se.

What I notice about black peoples - and mulattos as well - and in fact all of humanity, is that it is easier to see the thorn in another's eye than it is to see the beam or splinter in your own. White racism exists. But does black or mulatto?

If the white Brazilian woman grabs her purse because a person is black does that make her racist?

If a black person targets a person for crime because they are white, or targets them for rape because they are mulatto or moreno, does that make them racist?

There are too many morenos (meaning any thing from mulatto to Arab to Asian) in Brazil holding middle-class jobs for "good looking" to across the board only mean "white."

The number of peoples in Brazil who have made it into political positions with surnames that are Japanese and Arab are I believe probably even greater than in the United States. Plus, gangs in the United States (in Russia as well I believe) 9 times out of 10 are based around race and or ethnicity. They are not generally multiracial inclusive. Yet in Brazil even the poor who form the gangs seem to be multiracial organizations less intent on, "lets go kill the blacks," or "lets go kill the Mexicans," or "lets go kill the Chinese," or "lets go kill the Turks or Mongolians" (in the case of Russia) than they are about, "lets go make some bread [money] and kill our *enemies.*"

Now... that is not to say everything is racially perfect in Brazil and that Black-Brazilians do not get discriminated against or have particular struggles unique to the as a group identified by color. But context is help not to exaggerate Brazil as a land in which moreno clara's are out 100 deep, walking into the mulatto neighborhood with baseball bats, knives and hammers to beat the sh*t out of mulattos. In the United States I grew up with black and Latino gangs racially battling each other like this (they lived in separate neighborhoods) until crack cocaine hit, and large scale gang-banging fights went out the door for small scale drive-by shootings over drug turf.

My point is, there are levels to beef. In the United States the racial beef is enough that *Asian gangs* will fight *Mexican gangs* and *Mexican gangs* will fight *Black gangs* and all the various *Neo Nazi gangs* will fight them all. So, if Chinese and blacks in Brazil aren't forming gangs to beat and kill one another simply based upon cultural and phenotype differences... then even if they do have beef it is a smaller beef that has not yet made it up to the U.S. level of racial beefin. And that jack... is a fact.
GTY
written by João da Silva, July 07, 2007
Do you read,write and speak Spanish too?
...
written by GTY, July 07, 2007
Si, e tu amigo? Tu habla Espanol?

Voce fala Espanol? Eu fala Portuguese, mas fala mutio mal.
GTY
written by João da Silva, July 07, 2007
Hablo Espanhol também. You may be surprised to know that there were three countries where my Portuguese was perfectly understood and I could understand the Spanish. Uruguay, Chile and MEXICO!. The Mexicans spoke Spanish clearly and slowly (at least the ones I met) and I spoke clear Portuguese. So there was no problem of communication both in Tijuana and Cancun,though I think that Tijuana was (and still is) better organized to receive curious vistors like me. I would like to visit that place again.Cancun is for the Gringos (from all over the world).
hay joao
written by FORREST ALLEN BROWN, July 08, 2007
you can fly to guatamala and dont even need a visa
go to the city of chetumal in south quint ro state

grate place no whores good food free zone in belize to shop in and fishing is very good

i know several good friends there and the beach water is as clear as botled water

GTY dont forget the gold in the rivers in northern calif
From a black american
written by Terrance, July 08, 2007
To you all who compare Blacks in the USA to black in Brazil don’t know what you talking about. First there are no black gangs in the USA. There are black people in gangs, and some gangs are all black, but the people who make up these gangs did not get together because they're black. They just happen to be black and they will fight against who ever. Second, the U.S does have racism but the US is also the best country in the world if your black at least here you have a chance. And all you have to do is look at T.V. Blacks dominate (and make) popular culture here in the U.S. Being "black" in Brazil is like a sub-culture. Most blacks in the US live in Ghetto which is like a middle class neighborhood in most countries, running water, electricity; we have a welfare system here. Most black in Brazil live like third world African nations. I average age for a black male in Rio is 25. When I was in Brazil, I never seen a black person on T.V granted I didn’t which much, most of the black I seen were poor and struggling. I can’t even begin to compare the two Counties. Third, White racism? Now this might be my personal opinion, but Black doesn’t hold enough power to be racism toward whites. If a black person commits a crime against a white person, it’s not because he was white but because they where at the wrong time at the wrong place....mostly. This is coming form a black American I can say that I have faced racisms but now I work for the State of Florida....and I will not lie I got this job because I was black, but not under-qualified......it was between me and a white guy with the same experience level.
Also I get a lot of white women that want to have sex with me because I’m black.........being black in the US is a good thing better than being poor and white. Being black in Brazil is almost like be cursed. Atleast what i saw.
From a black american
written by Terrance, July 08, 2007
To you all who compare Blacks in the USA to black in Brazil don’t know what you talking about. First there are no black gangs in the USA. There are black people in gangs, and some gangs are all black, but the people who make up these gangs did not get together because they're black. They just happen to be black and they will fight against who ever. Second, the U.S does have racism but the US is also the best country in the world if your black at least here you have a chance. And all you have to do is look at T.V. Blacks dominate (and make) popular culture here in the U.S. Being "black" in Brazil is like a sub-culture. Most blacks in the US live in Ghetto which is like a middle class neighborhood in most countries, running water, electricity; we have a welfare system here. Most black in Brazil live like third world African nations. I average age for a black male in Rio is 25. When I was in Brazil, I never seen a black person on T.V granted I didn’t which much, most of the black I seen were poor and struggling. I can’t even begin to compare the two Counties. Third, White racism? Now this might be my personal opinion, but Black doesn’t hold enough power to be racism toward whites. If a black person commits a crime against a white person, it’s not because he was white but because they where at the wrong time at the wrong place....mostly. This is coming form a black American I can say that I have faced racisms but now I work for the State of Florida....and I will not lie I got this job because I was black, but not under-qualified......it was between me and a white guy with the same experience level.
Also I get a lot of white women that want to have sex with me because I’m black.........being black in the US is a good thing better than being poor and white. Being black in Brazil is almost like be cursed. Atleast what i saw.
...
written by e harmony, July 08, 2007
From a black american
written by Terrance, 2007-07-08 12:34:46
To you all who compare Blacks in the USA to black in Brazil don’t know what you talking about. First there are no black gangs in the USA. There are black people in gangs, and some gangs are all black, but the people who make up these gangs did not get together because they're black. They just happen to be black and they will fight against who ever.


I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about.

I came up around the culture of black gangs in the United States. Such as the GD's who originally were part of the Black Gangster Disciples (BGD's). The GD's are one of the largest U.S. gangs. The BG's (Black Gangsters) are another large black organization (gang) under the "Folks Nation." The Vice Lords (VL's) were formed as a black gang. The El Rukins who are predominately black Muslims and black "Hebrew Israelites" were originally part of the Black Peace Stone Rangers (during the 1960's they were the largest gang in the U.S.). Jeff Fort the leader of the El Rukins by the way is in federal prison for conspiracy to have his El Rukins organization conduct terrorist acts in the United States - on financial payment of Libya. You can read Elaine Browns book A Taste of Power about her short time leading the Black Panthers, and how the Black Peace Stone Nation in Chicago rallied with them (the Black Panthers) in Chicago. Even the famous Crips gang originating in California is to my understanding (I'm from the Midwest) a product of what started off as a Black-American social organization for black empowerment, but them morphed into a criminal anti-social organization.

Say there are no "black gangs" in the United States is the stupidest sh*t I ever heard. When I know for a fact these outfits routinely denied white males (the few that might have lived in black neighborhoods and wanted to join) membership based *simply on their race.* Everyone coming from the hood knows d*mn well the VL's, GD's, and Latin Kings (LK's are Latino gang) and so forth claim "revolutionary" change for their respective *race* and or ethnicities (in the case of the Latino LK's) through the means of criminal activity and gangsterism.

As though the Irish-Americans never had Irish gangs, or the Italian-Americans never had Italian gangs, or the Jewish-Americans never had Jewish gangs.

As though the racial (segregation) history in the United States would lend one to rationally contend the name "Latin Kings" refers to all inclusive to Irish, Jews, and Chinese. As though "Black Gangsters" would lend one to rationally contend that name infers being all inclusive of Irish, Jews, and Chinese.


As for the United States being a place where black peoples can make it, by looks of the racial percentage make-up of the U.S. prison system it would seem to me that also includes "making it" into prison, not to mention if we look at Compton, Baltimore, and Detroit et cetera... the United States looks like a place a young black man can successfully "make it" getting his a** shot up.

Curse? Yeah... President Lula of Brazil came up in such a materially privileged home and Obama in the U.S. came up in such a financially struggling home that he epitomizes meritocracy and upward mobility while white skin Lula epitomizes the favoritism bestowed upon white skin in Brazil and a system lacking any meritocracy for those that work hard. Get this straight jack! Hillary Clinton and Obama didn't come out my hood they don't know two f*ckin things about that or getting shot at by the Vice Lords. But I bet Benedita da Silva knows a whole lot about upward mobility (more than what me and most Americans [USA] do).

...
written by e harmony, July 08, 2007



Yep... that's a white woman in Brazil. Or maybe it's a black person lighter than Obama or Powell. Or maybe its a black Brazilian confined to ever toil the earth like an emaciated rural Ethiopian, walking with a staff, bare foot, in tattered rags.
To:Forrest
written by João da Silva, July 08, 2007
you can fly to guatamala and dont even need a visa
go to the city of chetumal in south quint ro state

grate place no whores good food free zone in belize to shop in and fishing is very good

i know several good friends there and the beach water is as clear as botled water


Thanks Admiral for the tips. But,could you please clarify to the "black Americans" on this blog about the Rascism in Brazil, the real Texan style? Remember that the good, well educated and well traveled Texans are not racists. You just give them all hell, which is your style.
To:E Harmony
written by João da Silva, July 08, 2007
Curse? Yeah... President Lula of Brazil came up in such a materially privileged home


You crazy? According to him, he came from a humble home from PE and made his life in S.Paulo by participating actively against the "military dictatorship",by forming unions. Harmony, I am really disappointend in you, for not having read his biography completely.Give me a break,please.

white skin Lula epitomizes the favoritism bestowed upon white skin in Brazil and a system lacking any meritocracy for those that work hard.


"White Skinned Lula" is color blind.He bestows favors on anybody who brings him votes and glory.You really dont understand how this gentleman´s mind works. You are sooo innocent,young and foolish.
Brazil racism
written by GTY, July 08, 2007
I won't get in the middle of an argument with two black Americans about racism. There is no denying that it continues to be a black eye on white American's and a white persons persepctive on racism can never be that of someone who has expereinced it. But if you were to listen to The Brazilian and Joao, they will tell you that Brazil is an Etopia where there is no racism, no different than the racists in America that deny racism exists and that black American's should not be provided an advantage over whites when competing for schools and jobs.

Our racist history is not that old, reperations where never paid although we uprooted African families for decades and forced them into slavery. A little advantage is the least we can do to make up for these sins. As e-Harmony says, urban, inner city black community's are ridden with poverty and crime. Terrnace points to a broken welfare system as well as his ability to get a job over a white that was equally qualified, then says that "America is better". Maybe better for you Terrance, but there are many who have fallen through the cracks or not recieved the same level of education and training that they do in white neighborhoods.
To:GTY
written by João da Silva, July 08, 2007
But if you were to listen to The Brazilian and Joao, they will tell you that Brazil is an Etopia where there is no racism, no different than the racists in America that deny racism exists and that black American's should not be provided an advantage over whites when competing for schools and jobs.


I didnt want to get into the middle of an argument between two black Americans either.

Oh,s**t, I thought a "Hispanic American" in this blog was on his way to CA,giving me a break for a few days.My hopes,as usual, were shattered!!
TO:GTY/E Harmony/Terrance and et all
written by João da Silva, July 08, 2007
I want all of you boys and girls to be adviced that, while traveling in the Amazon, ya all be very careful. Our allegators are very color blind.They are really mean man (and woman) eaters. Regardless of color,race,religion,social classes,etc;, they like to get ya all. Crunch,crunch,crunch.... and that is it and ya all become unsung heroes and part of forgotten history.

Welcome to our country, where there is no racism,atleast among the aligators.
...
written by A brazilian, July 08, 2007
There are too many morenos (meaning any thing from mulatto to Arab to Asian) in Brazil holding middle-class jobs for "good looking" to across the board only mean "white."


Oh boy, this "good looking" thing is a myth. Fat people, people with acne or other skin problems, tattoos, with teeth missing, with an eye missing, or plain ugly aren't "good looking", and they won't be eligible to such a job regardless of their color, religion, sexual preference, etc. They actually mean GOOD LOOKING, and I have already met black women working on malls.

You will find people of all origins working on malls. This is one case of "repeating a lie 1000 times until it becomes truth".

And since when such jobs are "middle class"? Such jobs are either teenager jobs or lower class.
I wish you were right
written by A brazilian, July 08, 2007
Blacks dominate (and make) popular culture here in the U.S. Being "black" in Brazil is like a sub-culture.


If only the blacks around here could make less noise I would be happy.

think about this
written by FORREST ALLEN BROWN, July 08, 2007
less than 1% of the whoit people had slaves in the US but the whole white race is blamed for it while millions of whites died in our war over this .
less than 25,000 blacks were killed fighting in the war .

no one looks at the fact the black tribes of afrcia took there other tribes men and traded them to the arabs for trinkes and trash .
whom sold them to the dutch , portgues and sold them to the world , brasil the US south africa , england .and other points .

you never here of the other countris just the united states we had slaves , get over it that was a very large mistake done by a few people long ago and the whole white race here is been condemed for ever ,
how about the blacks that have slaves to this day , or the arabs whom still keep slaves ,
to this day you can go to parts of north afrcia and men sell there kids boys and grils into slavery for food and other things , inda men and women sell off there girls to whore houses for the sex trade ,
but no only whites can be racists

i know a ton of black men with white wives ,that is okay , black with asian wives , that is okay , black with mexican wives that is okay .
but if you wat to see something find a white man with a black wife you will see things well very differelenty out of the black race .

yes the KKK was and still a bunch of small minided people whom are affraid of there own shadow .
the skin heads , same people , to me they are little hitlers that are to affrade of wearing the white sheets ,
look at the muslems they dont like christans whitch is another form a racisum .

to stop it we have to educate the people the right way ,
you go to war with any color they eat sleep and protect you , you come back with a whole new respect of people places and things

racisum is a crime to all of man kind it will be with us till we come up with a drug to take the stupid out of people ,

the worst case of slavery was the belgum congo and no one ever says a thing about it ,
in the US with ouf fredom of speach and our many fine black aurthors , musicans , actors , religos leaders , it has come to the fore front inand on the TV in 60 and was sent all over the world by our enemys to prove to the people of there countries the US was a country of raceisum , supresion , and haterid of other races .

look to the old pictures see how many whites prosted with the blacks in thoes years , the under ground rail road blacke and whites hung togeather for there crimes

YES we are still trying to get rid of it but at leas we try .

as far as afrimitive action policies they are in place to make sure we dont revert .

watch the music awards you have the black AMA the latin AMA and then just the over all awards
not a whites only award show but every one
and as we look at it blacks can go to work any where , if they say they cant get a job is is beacuse a ieagle alain has my job than fight for your rights
school the same way , fight for your rights .
THAT IS WHAT YOUR MILITARY HAS DIED FOR IF YOU DONT USE THEM IT IS YOUR FALT

teraance i can under stand your thoughts on brasil but you dont have to be black just dont have the right last name ,
my wifes brothers whitch she has manny 3 are married to black brasilian women from PE state , SB state and rio

all have different stories of how each state treats there blacks , for four years they are treated like s**t but when iot comes time to vote out comes the friend of the people
red flags flying , free hotdogs , tee shirts , food , EMPTY promisses to be filled upon my election ,( some what like happens in the states )after they win a few token jobs and a new wash rack for the slum to clean there clothes , of whitch the mayors brother built it at 100% more than it should take .

in PE state the poor can have a water storage tank built 50 % paid by the goverment , it cost $1000 out of your pocket . but you have to dig the hole , gather the sand for the cement , supply the laubor , the goverment just sends out the forms and a person that tells you how to do it , you pay $20 reals a month till its paid off
if you do the math the tank only has $400 reals of money in it , as the goverment make 600 off each tank that is supose to be free to the poor

WE ALL WOULD BE BETTER OFF IF WE PUT ASIDE OUR PETTIE DIFFERENCES AND MADE THE GOVERMENT WORK FOR US THE WAY THEY ARE SUPOSE TO

hay J
been up and down the river the only gators i saw were on my plate or on tee shirts left behind by tourist from florida

...
written by A brazilian, July 08, 2007
Most blacks in the US live in Ghetto which is like a middle class neighborhood in most countries, running water, electricity; we have a welfare system here. Most black in Brazil live like third world African nations.


This one was funny. Wow, you have electricity! Hahaha. I think you should get your facts straight. 98% of the Brazilian population has at least one TV, over 50% have cell phones, and so on. This is no "third world African nation", although this is the image popular associated to Brazil.
...
written by A brazilian, July 08, 2007
Vania, the brazians can yell and scream that we are not racists. It is not true and being a brown skinned heroe (like GTY), I must confess that I have confronted this problem all through my life.Mistaken by the bloody Argentines (who are more racists than we are) in a shopping mall for a shoe salesman.


Funny that you mentioned that. This weekend I confused a white guy with a salesman in a store because his shirt was of the same color as the sales people around there. I thought he looked like a salesman.

I probably have said that previously, but the biggest problem I see is the refusal from Americans in general to accept the fact that we can do things better than they can and the racial relationship is an example of that.

Second, this whole "identity" talk is not empowering. It doesn't give power to the people, it takes from them. It's a nice way to create a political corral, where you can gain some votes by "defending their cause", but it doesn't create powerful people. The worst part in Brazil is that rich kids get spoiled to the point their characters are affected negatively, and the poor kids that could do something for themselves resent the fact that they aren't spoiled to the point of being deformed.

We need desperately higher moral standards, not lower. We need to make them prove themselves worthy, not to give things away easily.

Is there anything better than being lord of your own destiny?
Forrest
written by João da Silva, July 08, 2007
hay J
been up and down the river the only gators i saw were on my plate or on tee shirts left behind by tourist from florida


Got your message loud and clear as you got mine. btw, a great post of yours and you summarised every thing I wanted to say about this bullsit on racism.

WE ALL WOULD BE BETTER OFF IF WE PUT ASIDE OUR PETTIE DIFFERENCES AND MADE THE GOVERMENT WORK FOR US THE WAY THEY ARE SUPOSE TO


A great quote too and I agree with you. Thanks bud.
To:A Brazilian
written by João da Silva, July 08, 2007
Second, this whole "identity" talk is not empowering. It doesn't give power to the people, it takes from them. It's a nice way to create a political corral, where you can gain some votes by "defending their cause", but it doesn't create powerful people. The worst part in Brazil is that rich kids get spoiled to the point their characters are affected negatively, and the poor kids that could do something for themselves resent the fact that they aren't spoiled to the point of being deformed.

We need desperately higher moral standards, not lower. We need to make them prove themselves worthy, not to give things away easily.


Great comments and I loved them.We do need desperately HIGHER MORAL STANDARDS.We do indeed to strive to make them PROVE thmselves WORTHY,not to give THINGS EASILY.

It is easy to play "Coitadinho" and demand things,because you are a "minority" and suck out of the middle class. I am sure you know what I am talking about.

Thanks again for the post.

I probably have said that previously, but the biggest problem I see is the refusal from Americans in general to accept the fact that we can do things better than they can and the racial relationship is an example of that.


Here I differ. Well educated Americans who have traveled overseas are much more open minded than the Europeans. One example of narrow minded Europeans is ch.c,who has nothing to contribute to the welfare of Brazil. Whatever we do, he criticizes.I dont have to elaborate more,since you have read his anti Brazilian tirades which are parrot like and boring.
Reality
written by Martin Luther King Jr., July 08, 2007
Observing from up here in heaven, my friend The American Historian has asked me to intervene to point out a few actual facts.

First, most blacks in the USA are not poor and do not live in ghettos. Only 2 out of 10 black americans are poor (vs. 50% in 1965, 87 percent in 1940) and most of those poor are kids and their single mothers, i.e., kids can't improve their income because they are not yet elibible to work. The goal is to stop young women from having kids before they can support them at an income above the poverty level.

And E Harmony, only about 1 out of 20 black men in the U.S. are in prison.

Roughly 3 out of 10 white americans are college educated; roughly 2 out of ten black americans have 4 year college degrees. Black Americans with college degrees earn 95% of what white americans earn with the same level of education. Black Americans with doctorates earn slightly more than white americans with doctorates. Black Americans who earn at least $100,000 per year marry nonblacks in the U.S. at a 50% rate.

GTY and Bo, keep up the good work. As I use to say, "Let freedom ring...."

The U.S. approach on race, while they have stumbled at times, has worked better than
any alternatives I have seen. And since I am sitting up here in heaven, I should know.
Oh, and A Brazilian, God tells me you need to open your eyes buddy. GTY, Bo, Mark Wells, Vania and the American Historian are right and you are wrong. Accept that fact.
A Clarification
written by Martin Luther King Jr., July 08, 2007
When I said the USA has "stumbled" I meant in the period since the 1960's when they have moved to more aggressively confront racial problems.

And A Brazilian, if you do not like the fact Brazil at times has been treated like the USA or Europe's bitch, the only way the problem will end is when you confront the real reason some much of its population remains poor, i.e., their race. An ugly truth to confront, but true. But I suppose that I Martin Luther King Jr. should not use such language.
Respell
written by Martin Luther King Jr., July 08, 2007
Eligible to work....
...
written by João da Silva, July 08, 2007
But I suppose that I Martin Luther King Jr. should not use such language.


Unbecoming of a distinguished person like you, Reverand.Shame on you. smilies/grin.gif
color blind
written by FORREST ALLEN BROWN, July 08, 2007
yes all brasilians have cell phones ,
it is a status simble .

TV go to punto frio pay 25 reals a month for 4 years and it is yours
the company makes 31/2 times the worth of the tv
as they do on all there stuff they sell .
and if you fail they dirty your name and you cant buy another thing ,

and tell the whole truth about the cell phones ,
most are bought on credit for 3 times as much as they are worth
and most are pay as you go ,
the avrage brasilian cell phone rings they look and then go to the pay phones and call on a land line
excpt on weekends when it is free calling , then try to get one off the phone .

i my self am happy to know peoples of all nations and clutures ,
all one has to do is travel and to meet people with an open mind and they will reviel themselves to you .

On my second night in JP i new thing about people that could get them put in jail in the states .

One thing i have learned about most brasilian men ,
they like to brag , drink and chase women .
but if you are at the table when the chque comes you get the bill

in brazil the imiage you project is what you are judge by other than your skin color

nino a black man that works for me can get on the phone and get any thing he wants but when he gets to the counter to pick it up he will always
be the last one helped at the counter .
and if i go in they come to me as soon as i walk in and the price for the same item is 75&#xor; more than nino got over the phone
then we stop off at a good resturant and always we will be seated at the back , so i go in and set then he will come in and sit with me
love to se the looks on there faces

I HATE BIGOTS AND RECISIT MORE THAN ANY THING ELSE IN THE WORLD

as far as gangs people of all colors can be in gangs , so do good othere feed off the fear they invoke in others
...
written by e harmony, July 08, 2007
To:E Harmony
written by João da Silva, 2007-07-08 16:50:44

Curse? Yeah... President Lula of Brazil came up in such a materially privileged home



You crazy? According to him, he came from a humble home from PE and made his life in S.Paulo by participating actively against the "military dictatorship",by forming unions. Harmony, I am really disappointend in you, for not having read his biography completely.Give me a break,please.


I know Lulas general biography of living as a child in abject poverty in the Northeast, moving with his mother and siblings to the city (his father had already left for another woman), him growing up in poverty and selling peanuts on the street as a child. I know about him getting his finger cut off in a factory.

My comment was what people in the U.S. would call *sarcasm.*


white skin Lula epitomizes the favoritism bestowed upon white skin in Brazil and a system lacking any meritocracy for those that work hard.



"White Skinned Lula" is color blind.He bestows favors on anybody who brings him votes and glory.You really dont understand how this gentleman´s mind works. You are sooo innocent,young and foolish.


Again, I was utilizing *sarcasm.* President Lula epitomizes meritocracy at work in Brazil. Likewise, I was using sarcasm about Obama because he did not come up in a materially struggling home... both him and Hillary Clinton are - at least in my mind - part of an *elite.* There just elites that in in the Democratic party. But so what, the Republicans have the Bush's and the Dem's have the Kennedy's. When the last time you've seen a U.S. President with a missing finger because he worked in a factory like Lula?
...
written by e harmony, July 09, 2007
And E Harmony, only about 1 out of 20 black men in the U.S. are in prison.


This is probably a correct stat, I'm not sure. But I doubt only 1 in 20 black men in the U.S. are felons. While I doubt most black men in the U.S. are felons a significant number are to the degree it bears down a significant effect on the community. But what I do know is a very large - perhaps well over half - percent of U.S. black males go to jail at least once in their life.

But my point about black males in the U.S. being successful in the U.S. prison system is that Black-America only makes up 12 or 13% of the U.S. population yet makes up the highest percentage of the U.S. prison population. According to Chuck Zito in his book "Street Justice" the average U.S. prison (for males) is roughly about 60% black, 35% Latino, and about 5% white. Chuck Zito is an excon and I believe did about a dime in the joint. He pointed this out in his book when he talked in his chapter about his prison time because of the racially motivated violence in U.S. prisons (mind you he was transfered to several prisons while doing his time). According to him young white males are the most vulnerable and the most targeted for rape by black inmates. He states a forewarning to young white males committing crimes: If you enter prison in the United States you will know what it's like to become a "minority."

So, Black-Americans don't have the highest percent in Congress or CEO board rooms but Black-Americans do have the greatest success story of any race in the U.S. in conquering the U.S. prison by making up the highest percent.

I'm not trying to bash Black-Americans, but the whole Black-American experience isn't only a tale of riches, peace, love, and the most gentle communities on earth. Everything about Brazil ain't a poverty story either or a story of no hope.
Martin Luther
written by A brazilian, July 09, 2007
The statistiscs about blacks in Brazil are non-existent. People will make up some random number depending on the situation. For example, when they want to demonstrate how blacks are "discriminated" they shoot the number very high, like 50% of the population being black (!), without any source, and then compare it to the percentage of blacks in Universities, Industries, etc. But in order to keep the number of blacks in those places small, they will consider as "black" only the "as black as coal" types. So the "useful moreno" that was included against his will in the 50% is not counted when statistics abouts blacks' salaries and jobs are gathered. Of course the number will be the picture of hell, but for this people the worse it looks the better. And they ignore completely the socio-economical differences between the Brazilian regions, that might create disparities between salaries and quality of life.

They have nothing to stand on, in terms of evidence. They just count on people's inferiority complex as "evidence" and on the history of slavery, which is long gone by now.

But you won't understand what is going on in Brazil if you don't understand PT and the leftists' plan. Right now they want to create a law for censor people from criticizing gays, to legalize abortion, to forbid advertisement of junk food and alcoholic beverages, and this racial crap. All of this while burdening the enterpreneurs and the population with taxes and bureaucracy, and making an open campaign against press, which they accuse of trying to bring the government down, only because they report the many corruption scandals to the people.

We live in an embryo of a dictatorship, and the NGOs play the role of "revolutionaries". Those ideas are carefully packaged elsewhere and just applied here. The NGOs are financed by international organizations. There's no "truth" in all of this, it's only a power game from some lunatics with too much money that think they can shape the world as they see fit.

And João, yes, I agree that Europeans are worse than Americans. I just don't even mention Europe because we don't talk about them, you know. smilies/smiley.gif Like a cousins you don't like. Just leave them there.
E Harmony
written by Don Vito Corleone, July 09, 2007
Guy, you better come up with a specific cite regarding the about "half" of U.S. black men will go to jail in their life, and I mean a specific cite. Only one black male in my extended family of cousins, Uncles and grandfathers has ever seen the inside of a jail. Many of those blacks are in prison for simple drug possession, not drug dealing or violent acts. Yet we know black Americans make up no where near most of the demand for drug usage in the U.S., so if they are not in possession of most drugs here WHAT RACE OF AMERICANS ARE? And why isn't that race arrested for drug possession at anywhere near the numbers of black Americans? Check out the more friendly form of justice they tried to merit out to Paris Hilton.

And the slander about blacks being the most successful prison population is similar nonsense. Historically, most urban crime in the U.S. during the 18th, 19th and early
20th Centuries was done by young white males, i.e.young Irish, Italian and other white youths. Read what white New Yorkers said about crime in their city--and the young white male youth gangs committing such crime back in the 1740's.

Most of those poor young Irish and Italian boys are either no longer as poor or no longer live in those cities. Now, most of those who fit in those categories are the poorest black and Latino (I dare say "Hispanic") youths. Give me a poor population
with unemployed young men and a certain percentage of those men will turn to crime--regardless of race. The murder rate in all white towns of the old American West was much higher than 20th Century New York City murder rates.

E Harmony, you remind me of my son Fredo, and we know what my son Michael did to him. Unlike my friend Martin Luther King, I write this not from heaven, but from somewhere else.
Vania
written by Martin Luther King Jr., July 09, 2007
Anyway Vania, Vito got a bit off topic, but you have written a great article.
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written by João da Silva, July 09, 2007
All of this while burdening the enterpreneurs and the population with taxes and bureaucracy, and making an open campaign against press, which they accuse of trying to bring the government down, only because they report the many corruption scandals to the people.


I am afraid that the things are going to get worse for the entrepreurs and the middle class and nobody is going to shed tears for them.
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written by e harmony, July 09, 2007
E Harmony
written by Don Vito Corleone, 2007-07-09 02:38:58
Guy, you better come up with a specific cite regarding the about "half" of U.S. black men will go to jail in their life, and I mean a specific cite.


I don't need to come up with anything, because my comment did not imply it was a matter of proof conducted released in some statistical science report. My comment implied anecdotal evidence.


Only one black male in my extended family of cousins, Uncles and grandfathers has ever seen the inside of a jail.


Good for you.


Many of those blacks are in prison for simple drug possession, not drug dealing or v