Brazzil

National or foreign religious idiots are there to rape the indigenous people. These cultures have live without it the past 10000 years; I am sure they can go without it the next 10000 years as well. Disgusting!

They ought to hang these bible thumb-pers for victimizing the innocent. I just hope they burn in hell!

Costinha

It is possible to buy into this guy's screed until you realize that what he is calling for is the wholesale relegation of an entire people group to the stone age--an age which he is presumably unwilling to be relegated himself.

Having been to several "reservations" in Brasil, I see no reason to single out religious missionaries as the bad guy who is robbing the natives of their culture. Many of the missionaries are actually working to preserve much of the language and tradition. You can't say that for the ecotourist, Greenpeace, loggers, farmers, MST and anyone else that finds themselves coming into contact with these tribes.

… Do that trick again; the one where you open your mouth and your head disappears. Remember, if I wanted to hear from an a$$hole, I'd fart!

Yours truly,

Costinha

You are correct in that these "pseudo-saviours" must be stopped. It is just as bad in the cities and slums and all other rural areas in Brasil too. Religion is total indoctrination and these people should be left alone to do as they have always done. For the author of this article check out Alan Watt at www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com and for transcripts in Portuguese go to www.alanwattsentientsentinel.eu

in every country the portugues invaded they forced them into the church .

and for them that did not go the way of the church .

kill them off by turning them to the whip and salt mines , or other forms of slavery

and then there was the reason it is called the missionaries position

trying to breed the god into them

they do serve a perpos in a lot of cases

protecting them from outsiders wanting to corupt them
or rob them

Having been to several "reservations" in Brasil, I see no reason to single out religious missionaries as the bad guy who is robbing the natives of their culture. Many of the missionaries are actually working to preserve much of the language and tradition. You can't say that for the ecotourist, Greenpeace, loggers, farmers, MST and anyone else that finds themselves coming into contact with these tribes.

Hold on there Pokeymon, you have tossed out a fairly inflammatory accusation, generalizing a number of groups. You care to elaborate on this muddle of a thought? Or should we simply dismiss your ramblings as another unsubstantiated attack on groups you know nothing about?

As to the topic at hand, it’s not an easy question to confront. I personally HATE with a passion most religious zealots, and hate even more their single minded mission in life to infect other weak minds with the same mystical baffle-gab that has effect there’s, that said, there are religious groups in the Amazon (not necessarily working solely with indigenous groups) who do greater social work than most. Dorothy Stang immediately comes to mind. In these cases, missionaries do what the government is incapable of doing (helping those not as fortunate in life), and for that it is hard for me to simply dismiss them because of their beliefs. The Catholic Church (and I am gong to loose respect in myself for saying this but you have got to give credit where credit is due) actually does some decent work in the Amazon with riberinhos and local communities, working with produtores rurais and also forcing the government to protect those being threatening from their lands by grileiros and other thugs in there region. So, these issues need to be ferreted out case by case, group by group and issue by issue. To cast a massive net and scream that all NGOs are evil (Like A Brazilian always does), or all missionaries are evil, without specific information as to their work and intentions, it is simply an exercise in stupidity and playground bigotry.

It's already against the law for foreigners to visit the tribes. Hard even for Brazilians. So what's the point?

If there is one thing that gets the Yanomamos upset, it's non-religious Nabas (non-missionary "whites") who try get get the Yanomamo to remain in their native practices and clothing, just so they can take pictures and write dissertations,
While the tribe continues to suffer from insect bites, health issues and unhealthy practices. It's all about money and professional self-promotion.

Professor? Awwww This is the internet. Any one can call them self any thing.

Cheers!
Sir Scott
King of the Internet

I like the ones that live in town with jobs and drive cars speak portgues and when it si needed
they show up at the court house in indan garb to try to beat the gov out of land or
going after farmers lands that there grandfathers sold to them

makes better press if the are half nackid and speak only in there own language

makes better press if the are half nackid and speak only in there own language

You may have a valid point there,as usual.

They live in the stone age! The missionaries do a good work, not all of them, but they do. Their way of life is one that didn't work because they stopped evolving at a certain point. Preserving it is just a cruel joke.

As I said to a friend of mine, researchers should put their "culture" in a Blue-ray disc for future reference (because such peoples are like a snapshot of what life on Earth was before the advent of writing), and then bring their children to learn about the world. Then those children will spread it accross their relatives and soon those failures will be gone.

Having some indian blood myself, I can't imagine how it is living in the middle of the woods. Thank God the catholic priests took action!

So that sanitation, hygiene, food, pharmaceutical drugs, can leave too !!!!


And killings can go on the rise without foreign eyes looking !!!!!
You can then hide again the genocide.

How many murderers already went to jail because they killed Indians ??????

Lessss than very few....as we all know !

"I can't imagine how it is living in the middle of the woods." Oh come on Abe get out of your glass cave and get real will ya.

Many urban warriors with terribly stoneaged agressive behaviours towards their fellow educated, intellectually advanced, "civilized", cultured, city dwelling compatriots do just that. For some it's for burning off the garbage and guilt collected in thier minds and souls, for other's it's just for relaxation or the challenge of it, other's yet for a chance to just go out and kill something. Those that don't go fully equiped with all the modern conveniences, gadgets, motorized toys etc., etc., just might actually have a chance to prove that they are at least equal to thier ancestor's in adaptability, intelligence, survival skills, etc.. Small few of these are likely in their fibre to be superior to same.

When you pull something out of the balance that evolved over many generations or put something in, damages are done that cannot be undone. Your condemnation and urgent desire to hasten destruction of these "primatives" suggest you lack confidence in your own "superiority" - go challenge yourself with nature, if you don't die because of your own lack of education and or stupidity you just might take a liking to such diversions.

"DID THIS NOT START SOME 500 ODD YEARS AGO
written by forrest allen brown, 2008-01-17 00:45:24
in every country the portugues invaded they forced them into the church .
and for them that did not go the way of the church .
kill them off by turning them to the whip and salt mines , or other forms of slavery".

-And so did the British, Spanish, and Dutch-

The pyramids were built. Some time thereafter brewed beverages were banned by some foisting thier religeon upon those in thier territory. Some have it this way still today. Fleeing to MA / PA / NH / VT / ME or points north / northheast whether for freedom from the foisting of X brand of religeon or for potential to live a better sustainable life through hard work is one thing. Fleeing to new frontiers to push ones ideals even if companioned by contributions towards better conditions the "modern" world can supply is another. Can anyone date the "freedom from religeon" movement? Certainly was present here and there in the mid to late 1970's.

When you pull something out of the balance that evolved over many generations or put something in, damages are done that cannot be undone.

I didn't say to remove them from there, I said to bring their children to live among others so they can learn about it and take it back to their original families. This is not destroying anything, this is like going to school and getting back home later.

Why don't you go live in this "stone age" lifestyle yourself? I think anybody that says that they should be "protected" in their state of blissful ignorance is only making self-serving statements. Some believe that there aren't enough resources for sustaining a 1st world lifestyle for everybody, so they urge others to "protect" the ignorants from knowledge. Who knows, maybe if they were well adapted to our society they would grow ambitious and desire more.

Just for your info.....the Indians in Latin America are very primitive people. I am truly sure that they would love to meet you Forrest....

Do you know that most of the South American Indians are friendly and soft spoken......

Some believe that there aren't enough resources for sustaining a 1st world lifestyle for everybody, so they urge others to "protect" the ignorants from knowledge.

Again Abe, or Ape, swings out onto the thin limb with another rabid leap of sanctimonious illogical bellyaching. I think you have missed your calling. You really should be among the new American Christian Fundamentalists.

So Kong, do have any legitimate information to back up this annoying duplicity (like WHO exactly are you referring too?), or are you hoping the less intelligent in this forum will eat this trite up and lick the bowl?

I said to bring their children to live among others so they can learn about it and take it back to their original families.

What do you mean? FORCE THEM to schools? That has already been done in number countries around the world and produced nothing but disastrous results, case in point Canada and Australia. Now you want to force them to the Brazilian public educational system? Talk about cruel.

Here’s a bit of advice for you Ape, instead screaming at others for trying to preserve their culture, and you forcing another culture on them, why dont you take a deep freaking breathe and ask them what THEY want. YOu may be surprised. But we know your response; they are too savage to make decisions, right?

haye meet many of them all across the amazon ,

but i did not leave them with

any tee shirts , guns , gum candy can food matches pictures.
left them as we found them .

if you want to see real throw backs go to bonio now they dont have any thing that outsiders want to rob from them

while the brasilians and others want to exploit them for all they can

haye meet many of them all across the amazon ,

but i did not leave them with

any tee shirts , guns , gum candy can food matches pictures.
left them as we found them .

if you want to see real throw backs go to bonio now they dont have any thing that outsiders want to rob from them

while the brasilians and others want to exploit them for all they can

rember the movie the gods must be crazy

it all started with a coke bottle .
them greed , want , anger , inve.
in the end it was bettter to get rid of the bottle

if you want to see real throw backs go to bonio now they dont have any thing that outsiders want to rob from them

Hey Forrest, are you talking about BORNEO? If so, when you visit there, you run the risk of your head being chopped off and hung on a stake.

AJ, being located closer to Borneo, should be able to enlighten us on this issue further

With that kind of industry in place Joao, perhaps they could scoop out the brains and ship them to Abe so she could eat the unlucky poor b$stards undiluted culture?

What do you mean? FORCE THEM to schools? That has already been done in number countries around the world and produced nothing but disastrous results, case in point Canada and Australia. Now you want to force them to the Brazilian public educational system?

Yes, and that works. I also have indian ancestors and I see no problem at all. They need to be assimilated somehow, because their "culture" is a dead end. And I say "culture" using this very elastic anthropological notion of culture where scientific knowledge is not included and everything in the same "level", but the real culture is our culture because it is more advanced and they can take advantage of it. Use their brains for a change.

In this country there's only one people, the Brazilian people.

And Brazilians have been doing this for centuries, by the way. Gringo, you should study more the Brazilain history before saying nonsense. Canada and Australia failed because they are Anglo-saxon in their majority. Anglo-saxons don't accept others as equals and have a tendency to be race obsessed.

Yes, and that works. I also have indian ancestors and I see no problem at all. They need to be assimilated somehow, because their "culture" is a dead end.

You rabid little bigot you: who are YOU to determine what a dead end culture is? With this line of thinking, I am quite correct I saying your would assimilate well into the new breed of Christian Fundamentalists in the US, or the, at the very least (or same), the clan.

Canada and Australia failed because they are Anglo-saxon in their majority. Anglo-saxons don't accept others as equals and have a tendency to be race obsessed.

Grab a mirror my bigoted little friend; SOME Anglo Saxons may look to others as uncivilized and underdeveloped, just as YOU look to the Indians in the same light. I see no difference in either form of bigotry. Thanks again Ape, you’ve proven what a hypocritical prejudiced little synaptically challenged f**ktard you are.

In this country there's only one people, the Brazilian people.

What planet are you from?

Resistance is infantile - you must be assimulated!!

Maybe I was confused by their pheromones, but the clearly lat-am decendants I have met were living quite sucessufully within your urban "culture" didn't need you or anyone else forcing them into the 1st world nor educating them. Chancing upon some you might even mistake them for common street dwellers due to their lack of apparent possessions and abode but many of these sojournors into your "civilized" society were entreperneurs, craftsmen, industrious, productive and all around decent human beings. They and their families house may have been the forest (to which they return every week or so) but I'm certain one in particular was making a heck of a lot more R$ contracting design work than he was making peddling a few items here and there to the touristas. Truly a free man and free from YOU!

who are YOU to determine what a dead end culture is?

Not me, but history. They live in the stone age, and, therefore, no writing system. They have no means to defend themselves against those who wish to take their lands away or even warn the rest of the population about what others do to the forest. They are insular and disconnected from anybody else. This might be good for those willing to cheat them, because it is much easier this way, but it is not for themselves or even for us.

Now imagine if they had lawyers. They would be able not only to defend themselves legally, but also would be able to propose improvements for their communities. In the long run they would be integrated with the rest of the population.

It is impossible to make the old indians adapt to something new, but the kids can be taught.

SOME Anglo Saxons may look to others as uncivilized and underdeveloped, just as YOU look to the Indians in the same light.

I see them as equals that have been misguided into believing that the stone age is their place. Bigotry would be if I had proposed a differentiated treatment, because that would imply a belief in their lack of capacity.

The problem with Anglo-saxons is what a friend of mine that was born in Brazil and raised in the US (his mother moved there when he was still a baby) told me. No matter what you do, you will never be one of them. In order to qualify as "one of them" having the culture is not enough, because one must have certain racial characteristics. That's why you have so many designations for people around there: Hispanics, Afro-americans, Native-americans, etc. They aren't seen just as Americans, but as something else.

Not me, but history.

No it is YOU! You say they are savages from the stone age, you are the bigot.

History is told to the Americans that Brazilians are 3rd world peasants, and most from south America are drug lords, does that make it true? How about thinking for yourself for a change?

They live in the stone age, and, therefore, no writing system.

Brazilians, it is learned in North America, live in the 3rd world and don’t speak English, Brazilians should speak English and that would help them into the first world! Are you getting my point here yet or should I bring out the crayons?

They have no means to defend themselves against those who wish to take their lands away or even warn the rest of the population about what others do to the forest.

Uhm, the Cintas Largas did a pretty good job defending themselves a few years back.

They are insular and disconnected from anybody else.

So am I, and that’s how I prefer it. So ask ME before you try and rape my mind with your ideas and force your culture on to me.

This might be good for those willing to cheat them, because it is much easier this way, but it is not for themselves or even for us.

Now you are just mumbling.

Now imagine if they had lawyers.

Many of them DO have lawyers; this just proves how out of touch you are. Also, the Kyapo have planes, the Enawane have boats, the Cintas Largas, as proven recently, have machetes and guns, what makes you think they don’t have access to council?

I see them as equals that have been misguided into believing that the stone age is their place.

NO, you don’t see them as equals or you would ask them as an equal what they prefer. You say they NEED or HAVE to assimilate into your culture and you haven’t even bothered to ask THEM what it is they wish. Again, you little bigot, you may be surprise when you do. But as I have said on numerous occasions elsewhere, it should be done on a case by case basis. Your blanket solution for all indios does little more than highlight your ignorance regarding issues in your own country. But we’ve come to expect that from you and most of your politicians.

The problem with Anglo-saxons..

Ya, Ya we got it. You are bigoted against Anglo Saxons and Indians. Any others you would like to add to the list? Oh ya, you used that nasty N word a while back. OK, let me get this straight. You hate, Anglo Saxons, Indians and blacks... any more?

With that kind of industry in place Joao, perhaps they could scoop out the brains and ship them to Abe so she could eat the unlucky poor b$stards undiluted culture?

Now you are confusing " A Brazilian" with AngelinaJolie (dubbed by Forrest as "AJ"). Better check with AJ if the dish under discussion is a delicacy in K-in-Pur restaurants. I don't think so.Nevertheless we will await her confirmation after her regular weekley meeting with her Minister on Monday

Brazilians, it is learned in North America, live in the 3rd world and don’t speak English, Brazilians should speak English and that would help them into the first world!

You are over-simplifying the problem. It's impossible to enter the "1st world" because of the Anglo-saxon mentality, regardless if you speak English fluently or not you will never be one of them. Not even if you were born and lived all your life there. We offer something you can't give them, i.e., to be Brazilians just like anybody else.

And yes, I said I had indian blood. And if I am typing on this website then it means that I don't live in the forest. I don't need to explicilty say that some are very well adapted already. I overestimated you, you are slower than most. Maybe some drawings would help? Obviously I am referring to those tribes that still live isolated.

You say they NEED or HAVE to assimilate into your culture and you haven’t even bothered to ask THEM what it is they wish.

If they don't know our culture how could they ever answer that question? That's one more reason to assimilate them. Then in the future when they know both they will decide.

You are bigoted against Anglo Saxons and Indians.

You are an intellectual midget. Did I lie? Are you saying that it is possible for someone non-white and non-Anglo-saxon to be "American", and just "American" and not to be associated with any "minority group" or whatever?

You are over-simplifying the problem. It's impossible to enter the "1st world" because of the Anglo-saxon mentality, regardless if you speak English fluently or not you will never be one of them. Not even if you were born and lived all your life there. We offer something you can't give them, i.e., to be Brazilians just like anybody else.

That example flew one million light years over your head, didn’t it?

And yes, I said I had indian blood.

So what? I’m sure you are a mixture of many things. This is Brazil. Having Indian blood doesn’t give you some magical DNA link to knowledge. There are genes and then there are memes.

And if I am typing on this website then it means that I don't live in the forest.

You really wrote that?

I don't need to explicilty say that some are very well adapted already.

Yes you do Ape, because in your little homologous bigoted world, all Anglo Saxons are the same, all Indians are the same and all Brazilians are the same. You’ve said that repeatedly, and I’ve exhausted myself trying to drive home the widely known fact that life is a little more complicated than the US and THEM, black n white, world you have concocted in your head.

If they don't know our culture how could they ever answer that question?

Holy jumping Jesus. We’ll it seems that the majority of Indians groups DO know your culture quite well and do in fact hate it. Over the years it has literally sought out to kill them. All the examples I gave (and I can provide more) are groups that have had nothing but conflicts and problems with Brazilians in the north. And I don’t suspect that will ever change. As for the two or three isolated groups with NO outside contact at all (this is rare) stealing their kids (as you have placed o nthe table as an option) and forcing them into the crappy public Brazilian school system ( a fate worse than death I imagine) will only create more hate.

You are an intellectual midget.

Says the retarded giant…

Did I lie?

About what? You have been blatantly and honestly bigoted from the start – you’ve not lied at all. Your ignorance is open for all to see.

Are you saying that it is possible for someone non-white and non-Anglo-saxon to be "American", and just "American" and not to be associated with any "minority group" or whatever?

Well, this is just a diversionary tactic on your part, but I’ll bite. Yes. Yes I do. And if someone wants to label themselves something else, be my guest. What we don’t need is fascist bigoted apes like you telling OTHERS what they should and should not do. Mmmmmk? Now shouldn’t you be claiming your spot tonight to collect parking change? It is Saturday!

Some believe that there aren't enough resources for sustaining a 1st world lifestyle for everybody, so they urge others to "protect" the ignorants from knowledge.

And before you continue to dodge n weave and wiggle all over the place, can you please answer who the "some" is from your idiotic and scholastically fraudulent comment? Is there another homologous group out there for us to hate? Hmmmmmmm?

You are either a kid trying to look cool on the web by using some lower kind of language or you are an idiot. Everything you say is just denying the many crimes Anglo-saxon committed in the past. If today you have Hispanics that refuse to be assimilated then call it "retribution". You have acted like madmen for centuries for ensuring racial purity and now people don't really want to care about you. Everything is historically registered. You screwed up and now you are paying for it.

I am not telling how people should live, I am only saying the obvious. There's just one truth and there always will be wrong and right ways of living towards that truth. They could really participate in the society without denying their culture if they just had education. People like you don't want them to get educated, because then they could make questions that would make you look bad. You treat them like children incapable of making decisions for themselves, trying to hide the "ugly truth" from them, i.e., that they aren't alone in this world and that they will inevitably have to deal with the outside world.

You are part of the problem, not the solution.

And, by the way, in the American culture my indian blood should signify something. Are you by any chance learning from us? Your disregard for this fact doesn't look very American.

all races have a bad past or they would not be here ,
the laws of nature were finial only the strong would survive until the schools were set up to teach
till laws were set up to protect the people and the press to tell the world about it .

life goes on people die out
history is written by the winners

all races have a bad past or they would not be here ,
the laws of nature were finial only the strong would survive until the schools were set up to teach
till laws were set up to protect the people and the press to tell the world about it .

life goes on people die out
history is written by the winners

history is written by the winners

Not only that. The historians also tend to glorify blood thirsty villains, be them winners or losers. Thanks to them many people all over the world have heard of Genghis Khan, Stalin, Mao Tche Dung, Hitler, Idi Amin,Pol Pot and countless others.Another blood thirsty person was Alexander, the Great.He wanted to conquer the entire world and met his "Waterloo" at the East. Some historians say that he died of Typhoid and others say that in the final battle against King Porus (?),he was mortally wounded and died of Tetanus. Of course, you must know more about the history, since you have visited 47 countries and gift to mingle with the "Natives", besides having read hundreds of books during your life time

Good steel measured and true from metals pured, well forged, hammered and folded just thus, makes for a fine blank from which an admirable knife, sword or adze can be formed. Wending the way through the threads, dashes and darts Abe doth toss, disregarding, discounting or just plain ignoring the sometimes less than acute angle, tangential pathway or complete reversal thereof one can almost discern the logic and knowledge hiding amongst this lost soul's rantings

"There's just one truth . . . participate in the society without denying their culture . . . make questions . . . treat them like . . .capable of making decisions for themselves . . . they aren't alone in this world . . . they will inevitably . . .deal with the outside world."

"You are part of the problem, not the solution." Can you see clearly Abe? Try facing truely what you see in the mirror each morning.
.

God must have invented Americans for the sole purpose of annoying the rest of the world. You are not a threat, you are just like a 5 years old, whose mother didn't teach good manners, playing with a loaded gun. Hopefully you will shoot yourself in the head some day.

What's the matter Abe? Didn't like what you saw in the mirror or perhaps you still are unable to look even yourself in the eye completely honestly? Don't feel bad about it. Many highly "educated" folks, particularly those that creep only part way up the corporate ladder can't do it either.

God must have invented Americans for the sole purpose of annoying the rest of the world.

Well, Abe, I am as Canadian as they come, so I don´t know what you are on about. But Canada has issues too with the Americans, yet no one there is stupid enpough to think all Americans are a like. Just you in your little black n white world

You are either a kid trying to look cool on the web by using some lower kind of language or you are an idiot.

You care to explain this garbled meandering thought?

Everything you say is just denying the many crimes Anglo-saxon committed in the past.

No ape, you freaking Cro magnum, I am ASKING YOU who the SOME are in your first post. You know, the SOME behind the conspiracy to keep Indian populations isolated for fears of planetary resource scarcities? You have done nothing but dodge n weave and whine and point fingers. In short you have done everything except answer the question.

I am not telling how people should live, I am only saying the obvious.

What is obvious? Obvious to whom?

People like you don't want them to get educated, because then they could make questions that would make you look bad.

Why would Brazilian Indians ASK questions that would make ME look bad? Are you sniffing glue to keep those hunger pains at bay, again? You really need to try and explain yourself more. The only a*****es to treat indians poorly in Brazil are Brazilians.

You treat them like children incapable of making decisions for themselves, trying to hide the "ugly truth" from them

Who treats them like children? Moi? I’m not the one wishing to steal children from their families and force them into Brazilian public schools. And by the way, I have another question, what is the UGLY TRUTH?

Can you keep your ferret like attention span in check, and please try and explain your rambling thoughts and ideas more. Here’s an idea, say them out loud before writing them down. That may help you. keeping track of your unsubstantiated rhetoric and conspiracy theories is growing tiresome.

You are part of the problem, not the solution.

What, your FINAL solution?

And, by the way, in the American culture my indian blood should signify something.

Ya, it signifies you have Indian blood, and that’s that.

Are you by any chance learning from us? Your disregard for this fact doesn't look very American.

There is nothing to learn from you Ape, obviously. And what does the last line mean? I thought all Americans were evil puppy killers?

I am as Canadian as they come,

I suspected it all along

I suspected it all along

I’m waiting for Ape´s predicable comeback which will be: "Canada, America, same thing. You’re all Anglo-Saxon monsters".

Or Costinho’s retort which will probably play out something like: “let me f**k your dog’s skull, Canadian pig fart”.

Thankfully, my mates are more like you and Shelly, so I do hold some hope for this nation, but it´s hard at times to cling to this hope.

Who do you think you are to even make such assumptions? That doesn't even deserve an asnwer. You are hated worldwide because you behave like spoiled little brats wherever you can. Good luck.

Stop mutilating the text in order to answer different pieces as if they were completely different ideas. I defend the Indians to get educated and the children are the most logical option. Only someone with vested interests in their ignorance would think this is bad. Their stone age life has no science, no knowledge, no development, not anything. That's a dead end and there's no way for them to go from there. They will have to deal with the outside world and that's inevitable! If they do so then it's better to choose the field carefully and for that they will need education.

Gringo, you are incapable of producing a single line of logical tought. Your texts look more like a 12 years old trying to piss some adult off and then he will go laughing and tell his friends.

I don't hate you, I just feel sorry for Canada.

You still haven’t answered any of the questions my little Ape friend, principally the first one, when I ask you to clarify:

Some believe that there aren't enough resources for sustaining a 1st world lifestyle for everybody, so they urge others to "protect" the ignorants from knowledge.

Who are these “some”? I’m still waiting.

If you can’t respond to a question that has been asked several times now, I really don’t think you have the right to question my intellectual prowess. I understand full well what you want to do -- and as a bigot you have made this crystal clear – you want to remove the children from their villages and force a dilapidated educational system on them simply because in YOUR narrow world view, theirs is a dead end culture. Maybe some one should tell them? Rather sanctimonious of you.

Given your comprehension skills are equally found as wanting as your analytical skills, let me repeat again that I’ve defended from the get go that these groups be treated like humans and left to determine their own destiny. I’m not saying they should stay as they are, and I’m not saying they HAVE to leave their “dead end culture” (you ignorant rabid f**k) as you are demanding. But again, your ferret like attention span coupled with your cro magnon intellect and psychopathic xenophobia will never allow you to digest that.

The fact that you continuously wiggle and squirm avoiding direct questions leads me to believe that you haven’t fully thought through you rather rabid thoughts yourself, so you use diversionary tactics like saying my “texts looks like a 12 years old” to compensate. It’s clear for all to see that I own your ass intellectually here; saying anything to the contrary only makes you look more foolish. So again, who is the mystical “some” you keep referring too?

I just feel sorry for Canada.

I do too, we´ve let too many peole like you in....

Thank you so much for thinking of me, I’m touched!

I see that your damaged epicenter is clueless to the core and it is affecting your subtle discernment. Perhaps your gene pool could use a little chlorine, don’t you think!

Can I ask you a personal question… How long does it take you to cook Minute Rice?

Costinha

PS: Hehehe

Can I ask you a personal question… How long does it take you to cook Minute Rice?

That´s very cute Costinha, now run along.

Just open the door oven & put your head in it, then turn the knob.

“That´s very cute Costinha, now run along”

What’s the matter, did you amoeba brain run out of arguments?

You should never drink on an empty head.

Hehehe

Costinha

Google for Malthus and world hunger. You ignorant f**k, you aren't even ashamed. Just like the "Nordic theory", this theory is popular even today.

They don't know about the world. We need to let them know about the world around them so they can make the best decisions for themselves. What's so difficult to undertand about that? You are the one that thinks that teaching physics or chemistry to an Indian is "denying their culture", how? f**k you! They need to know the truth, and then they will choose if they want to live segregated from the rest of the society or not. I think it is more advantageous for them to get educated and participate in our society just like anybody else, you seem to think otherwise.

Some believe that there aren't enough resources for sustaining a 1st world lifestyle for everybody, so they urge others to "protect" the ignorants from knowledge.

So, what you have said here is that given world resource scarcities, some advocate that we keep certain populations from developing to ensure resources don’t run out, and mainly for people with first world lifestyles. Firstly, Malthus doesn’t talk about preserving first world lifestyles; he was worried about over population in general and called for sexual restraint to reduce the burden on the planet’s carrying capacity, or believed that natural disasters would take course and take care of the problem. Never, did he advocate the manipulation of indigenous populations to deprive them of first world goodies.

As well, when you wrote that line you were NOT referring to some 18th century philosopher. When you say “some believe”, that is PRESENT TENSE, so again, I’ll ask: WHO today believes that we need to, in your own words “protect the ignorants (sic) from knowledge” because “there aren’t enough resources for sustaining a first world lifestyle”? Be specific!

You’re a fraud and an intellectual huckster. You have no moral standing and no academic currency here.

They don't know about the world. We need to let them know about the world around them so they can make the best decisions for themselves.

Yer just a little neo fascist at heart, ain’t ya!

They need to know the truth, and then they will choose if they want to live segregated from the rest of the society or not.

What´s the truth?

And no, none of this "and THEN" they can decide nonsense! They can decide everything for themselves from the start. You can’t forcefully indoctrinate them with "Ape´s view of the world" and THEN ask them what they want. Dumbass.

Man, I missed the show. A Brazilian, what schools do you think sending the native children to? Perhaps we should remind you the state of dismay of our FREE education? Unless you are willing to pay for private education, you are corrupting their culture. Basically you are a bigot. You and Hitler are no different. He had same sort of idea, his culture-The Arian race, was the only pure and righteous culture. You think that the way you live is better for everyone, but in reality it doesn't work like that. Why do you think you have a solution for them. Ask them if they want to be involved with us. Haven't we learned from the Anglos-saxon, the Dutch, the French, the Spaniards, the Portuguese? Are we going to make the same mistake again?

There is only one truth here. We need to respect their culture and let them make the decisions. Not you or me. Some of the missionaries are doing a good job. Why do you think the Brazilian gov is so keen to stop people from helping them out? GENOCIDE. What is going on in Brazil is not much different from Nazi Germany. Ethnic cleansing in order to cultivate the lands in the Amazon. Go and check the Greenpeace video, it is shocking!!! This is colonization all over again

Here is a good website about the Yanomami. When I look at the photos, I cannot believe that people think that we should interfere with them.

http://www.survival-international.org/tribes/yanomami

What problems do they face? During the 1970s and 1980s, the Yanomami suffered hugely from Brazilian goldminers invading their land. The miners shot them, destroyed their villages, and exposed them to diseases to which they had no immunity. Twenty percent of the Yanomami died in just seven years. After a long international campaign led by Survival, Yanomami land was finally demarcated as the 'Yanomami Park' in 1992 and the miners at last expelled. But the Indians still do not have proper ownership rights over their land - Brazil refuses to recognise tribal land ownership, despite having signed an international law guaranteeing it, and there are many within the Brazilian establishment who would like to see the Yanomami area reduced and opened up to mining and colonisation. The army is also stepping up its presence in the area, and has plans to build more barracks.

A Brazilian or shall I call you A Hitler, are you aware of this?

Why do you think you have a solution for them.

Because we have science. Simple. They don't. They live in the stone age.

The only sin is to keep them segregated from the rest of the world.

A Brazilian, are you aware of this?

Yes, that's precisely why they need education. Right now they are helpless victims being attacked by any greedy bastard. If they know how our society works they would be able to protect themselves.

Why is it so difficult for you to accept the fact the those people have the right to knowledge just like anybody else? Why do you want to deny it to them?

Probably I was too fast for you, sorry. I forget you are a bit slow. Yes, Malthus talks about food, but the idea is still popular. Resources aren't only food, but fuels and other goods that an industrialized society would need. For example, if 6 billion people were going to use cars, just like the Americans, the production of oil wouldn't be enough and there would be a considerable harm to the planet. And so on... What would happen if 6 billion people wanted HD-TV and Blu-ray, a broadband internet connection, a nice house, a boat, a PS3, and all the junk consumed in the first world? Not only scarcity of materials, but there would be ecological considerations as well.

Now, this type of "culture" valorization is not restricted to Indians only. I only used them as an example because their situation is currently bad and others want to "protect" them from the knowledge that they can do much more. Why? The idea that primitive "cultures" must be protected is convenient for some, but not for the protected ones.

Ah, you bumbling awkward ape. You’ve gone a done it again. You have answered nothing, as per usual, and only dug yourself in deeper into the dilemma; quite typical for the synaptically challenged. But for starters, don’t lecture me on environmentalism and resource scarcity you siwwy wabbit, not only is my knowledge of Malthusian theory vastly superior to yours (as you have ignorantly and indisp**ably shown) but you can name any ecological subject you wish and I’ll own your ass. But I digress.

You still have shown no interested in telling us who this mystical cabal that comprise “SOME” is. Here’s where you have gone and highlighted you callow tendencies yet again

their situation is currently bad and others want to "protect" them from the knowledge that they can do much more. Why? The idea that primitive "cultures" must be protected is convenient for some, but not for the protected ones.

So, who are the others and who are the some? You know, you sound like some old religious nutter out on a street corner wearing a tin foil hat warming the world about the horrible SOME that are controlling our thoughts.

“Who?” Gringo asks.
“You know, the SOME” replies Ape.
“Who are they exactly? Queries Gringo”
“You know, the OTHERS!” Screams Ape.
Gringo shrugs and giggles and gets a beer.

Ya kill me Ape, you’re dumber than a box of hammers but I’ll give you one point to your credit, you are entertaining as hell.

For a person that uses words like 'Duh' in an argument I think the topic is way over your head. Don't you have any homework to do?

Yes, that's precisely why they need education.

To protect themselves from miners, grileiros and rogue farmers? No, that’s what the State is for, and not just to protect them, but to protect everyone! Sadly, the State in Brazil fails miserably with this.

Well, Ape, I’ll leave you to your widdle thoughts, but I’m now of the conclusion that we should force education on YOU, because in MY WORLD you are one of the so-called “ignorants”.

And one other question; earlier you referred to the "ugly truth", I’m still waiting on what you consider that to be, and please no half hearted “oh go google Hitler or Stalin” mmmmk!

Shelly... Bend Over for Daddy.

Costinha

For a person that uses words like 'Duh' in an argument I think the topic is way over your head. Don't you have any homework to do?

With tail between his legs, Ape lowers his gaze and slowly woddles off to dispair, mumbling under his breathe as he goes.

You have a toxic personality bordering on to the radioactive. You are no more than a pesky fly buzzing about the place spreading germs.


Costinha

PS: Hehehehe

To protect themselves from miners, grileiros and rogue farmers? No, that’s what the State is for,

If they had education then they would have lawyers and wouldn't live so helplessly unprotected and disconnected from the rest of the world. They could participate in the political life and help the community to improve the infrastructure of their region. They could even make money out of their natural resources before someone wants to steal it from them. There are many many ways education would make a huge difference for better.

I defend knowledge and science, you defend stupidity.

earlier you referred to the "ugly truth",

The truth is that their way of living is primitive and that they can do much more with a proper education.

You are a sorry excuse for a human being, not only for the evil you wish to do (keep others ignorant), but also because you have reached the limit of your little intellectual capability and now all is left for you to do is to try to "beat" others with cursing in a caveman-style. You sound like a favelado. Yes, you are a Canadian favelado.

Why is it so difficult for you to accept the fact the those people have the right to knowledge just like anybody else? Why do you want to deny it to them?

Neither Shelly nor I have stated or advocated in any way shape or form to keep groups from learning anything they’d like, only the mystical cabal of “SOME” that you have invented in your pea brain want to do this. What Shelly (who by the way is light years more intelligent than you) has stated quite honorably here, for anyone with the comprehension skills of a 5th grader or better to grasp, is that indigenous groups be allowed to determine their own destiny without outside forcings.

It is YOU that wants to steal kids from their families and force them into schools, like many projects of which in the past, have failed miserably in Canada and in Australia. But you don’t like these two well researched and well documented examples of societal engineering, because in your bigoted mind WHITY was involved, so that’s why they failed.

You’re prices less, but again in Brazil, sadly, quite typical.

The truth is that their way of living is primitive and that they can do much more with a proper education.

I feel the same about you...

Why do you have such complex of inferiority? You have been trounced with facts. In a silly attempt to salvage the image you created for youself you insist in calling others "dumb". Hahahahahaha.

Gringo, the Canadian favelado. What's next? Oh, generalizations about Brazil? Hahhahahaha. You are sinking lower and lower, you have abandoned any proximity with a real argument and now is just offending others.

Unfortunately I don't feel any pleasure exposing you, but I will do so while you insist in the aburdity.

In Brazil it is a crime for the parents to leave a child without education and the same applies to Indians, because they are also Brazilians. Children must go to school and this was one of the campaigns of some past governments. They put almost 100% of all children in the school. Nobody is talking about "stealing children", but just the natural process of sending them to school to get educated. Everything according to the law.

No parent has the right to deny the children education.

Why do you have such complex of inferiority?

You want to start a debate about psychology now? You can barely speak on anything pertaining to Brazil.

You have been trounced with facts.

You haven’t used a single fact; you obviously wouldn’t know a fact if it paraded down the Sambódromo dressed in feathers with a trio electrica blasting “this is a fact”. You are still toiling in the mystical realm of “some” and “the others” and let us not forget “the ugly truth”

Hahahahahaha.

That’s a fact?

Gringo, the Canadian favelado. What's next? Oh, generalizations about Brazil? Hahhahahaha.

I see we’re brushing up on our hypocrisy again!

You are sinking lower and lower, you have abandoned any proximity with a real argument and now is just offending others.

I’ve not sunk lower ape boy, I started calling you ape boy from the start.

Unfortunately I don't feel any pleasure exposing you, but I will do so while you insist in the aburdity.

Exposing me? Care to elaborate? Maybe look up the meaning of the word expose first.

In Brazil it is a crime for the parents to leave a child without education and the same applies to Indians, because they are also Brazilians.

Well, for starters my immediate reaction was twofold, first when I heard LAW and Brazil in the same sentence, I kinda chuckled. Then I thought, how on earth is the government going to force the MILLIONS of Brazilians (let alone the indians) who are not in school, to go to school, or fine their families? You´ve got bigger problems with education in Brazil, than a few villages in the north.

http://noticias.terra.com.br/educacao/interna/0,,OI2165006-EI8266,00.html

Then I thought OK, I’ll bite. Let’s get back on track to Indians in general. Firstly, no one here wants to deny them whatever it is they wish. I don’t know why you keeping barking up THAT tree. But then again, your comprehension problems have been well registered.

Your idea, from the beginning was to force the children from their villages, give them a formal Brazilian education, and then ask them if they want to go back to their village. Now, you say there is a law that should do just that, well, sorry sunshine, you're wrong again.

Yes, Indians in Brazil should be afforded all the rights than any Brazilian has, and this applies to education if they should want it as well, but when you say everyone is treating equally, you are wrong (and this is not to say tht Indians are treated, legally inferior to BRazilians, but in the Constitution they have the RIGHT to be different. Article 231.Again, Ape, is simplifying everything again.

http://www.funai.gov.br/quem/legislacao/indios_na_constitui.htm

Here’s an English translation for anyone as well, which explains the right to be different and education for indigenous groups.

http://www.socioambiental.org/pib/english/rights/const.shtm
(scroll down to right to be different, and below that is the right to a lawyer)

So, that little tantrum of yours holds little water, but we knew that from the start. Again, we know you think they are ignorant, we know you think they have a dead end culture, we know you hate Anglo-saxons, because, it is all well documented here. We also know you are a rabid ideologue with the intellectual currency of fusca. But please don´t try and paint a black and white picture of the world, when all the suble tints in between are much more interesting.mmmmk..

No parent has the right to deny the children education.

One last important point, who says indigenous parents are denying an education to their children anyway?

One last important point, who says indigenous parents are denying an education to their children anyway?

If they don't provide formal education, with a curriculum equivalent to other schools, then they are denying education to them.

Now, you say there is a law that should do just that, well, sorry sunshine, you're wrong again.

There's a law that says that all children should go to school. Google again please.

He is like a junkyard dog that barks but doesn’t bite. He lives in an eternal delusion that his voice is anything other then inconsequential.

Grin-GO… You are a shining example of pond scum!

Costinha

Dismissing the Brazilian constitution now are we Ape? No worries, almost everyone does. It’s really not worth the paper it is printed, like most laws in Brazil, when you see how folks treat it. I only hope that if you are ever given the chance to implement your “final solution” for the indigenous cultures of Brazil, that you be met with the same thunderous salutation and adoration that the Cintas Largas expressed to the miners some years back with similar fascist thoughts as yours.

God help Brazil.

Well, Gringo, do not bother with ignorant banter. We have law in Brazil, however there isn't anyone to make sure that the children are going to school. If that was true, why so many street kids live pretty much all their lives without education? I don't see the social services rounding up the kids in the morning for lessons in Portuguese or any other discipline. Try that in Brazil, we have over 1.5 million working children in our country. A Brazilian, you cannot convince my 5 year old that Brazil is doing its job to protect child welfare. Bigots like you parade the corridors of our well functioning D. F.
Gringo, you don't need to look any further for the state of public education in poorer regions of Brazil. UNESCO in 2006 published a report (in English) and see it for yourself. A Brazilian has lost the case.
http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0015/001512/151271e.pdf

From the Report:

"Social assistance programmes have helped 4 - to 6 -year-olds in poor regions gain access to preschools,
but with a trade-off in quality – pre-schools in disadvantaged regions are less likely to be staffed
with qualified teachers, less likely to be equipped with proper support materials and more likely to run
short hours."

Quality
Laws and guidelines on pedagogy for early childhood education are in place, but implementation remains a
problem. The gap has to do with the fact that not all early childhood services have yet been integrated into
the education sector and recognized as educational institutions. Qualification levels of teachers are
improving, but early childhood teachers lack specialized training and education. Inequities are evident in
quality as well. Public early childhood services attended by the poor tend to be of lower quality, especially
with regard to facilities and pedagogical environment, and private services of good quality are available
mostly among the rich. Quality problems are more urgent and pronounced in day care centres. The
challenge has mainly to do with the process of transforming them into educational institutions, which has
stalled. Sectoral conflicts, limits to municipal capacity and lack of funding are noted as contributing
factors.
Investment
Expenditure on early childhood education in Brazil has declined lately relative to other levels of education".

The problem of enforcement: Despite the advances in standards, much of what is prescribed
for quality has not yet been put into practice. The problem is most pronounced as regards supervision.
Supervisory responsibility, even for public services, has been taken up sparsely or superficially. The
problem is attributed to lack of personnel and/or insufficient technical capacity

A Brazilian, a true bigot and an ignorant prick. People like you are the cancer in our society.

You seem frustrated lately. I bet that old limp english husband of yours has not deliver it, right? What you need is reliable Brazilian banging up your “S” to put a smile back in your face, you freaking witch!

All my luv

Costinha

Go and get your travesti today! Seems to me that you need some handling, here I found one for you.

http://www.freewebs.com/tegmen22/tegmen222.jpg

Oh my my, Oh my…. I didn’t realize that your english fag husband was that far gone! Since we last spoke when did that british slut gone totally QEEN? Now I see your dilemma… Next time you cum to Rio, I will give you some of my.

Bye honey buns… Sincerely, your Costinha.

A Brazilian, a true bigot and an ignorant prick. People like you are the cancer in our society.

Shelly, do your homework first and you will see that these words fit you perfectly. There have been a huge governmental programme for putting all children in school. We have near 100% there. Are you going to question the quality? One step at a time.

I have lived in Manaus and Boa Vista which has allowed me to have encounters with numerous tribes. Many of the Indiginous people are leaving the forest b/c they can no longer make it there so they start coming to the cities. By the way this is what they were telling me so do not want to be accused of putting words in their mouth. The Indigimous tribes have battled with lack of health care even though there is a hospital outside Boa Vista Brasil for Indiginous tribes but they have to walk so far to get to this hospital... Entao the missonaries is not the problem here. They are there to improve the quality of life physically and spiritually. By the way true Christianity is not about a religion or forcing someone to believe something. Those who choose this lifestyle does so on their own free will. I agree if there is indoctornation forcfully happing that is very wrong and not true Christianity. The government has all of the rules to keep these tribes isolated but is it to actually help these indian tribes... NO WAY..... The longer they can keep them primative they can bring in National Geographic and other people to do stories and takes their pictures. Who benefiet's from this the GOVERNMENT and how much do they give to these Indian tribes? NADA....

I have tried to read thru all the comment thouroughly but got tired of the name calling and stuff. These indiginous tribes are already leaving their homes for the cities b/c they feel the quality of life is better for them there. Yes Brasilian public schools are very bad. The solution is maybe allowing missionaries or other Aid agencies to come in and teach these children. Keeping them isolated and primitive is not the solution for them ............

A concerned person

I have lived in Manaus and Boa Vista which has allowed me to have encounters with numerous tribes. Many of the Indiginous people are leaving the forest b/c they can no longer make it there so they start coming to the cities. By the way this is what they were telling me so do not want to be accused of putting words in their mouth. The Indigimous tribes have battled with lack of health care even though there is a hospital outside Boa Vista Brasil for Indiginous tribes but they have to walk so far to get to this hospital... Entao the missonaries is not the problem here. They are there to improve the quality of life physically and spiritually. By the way true Christianity is not about a religion or forcing someone to believe something. Those who choose this lifestyle does so on their own free will. I agree if there is indoctornation forcfully happing that is very wrong and not true Christianity. The government has all of the rules to keep these tribes isolated but is it to actually help these indian tribes... NO WAY..... The longer they can keep them primative they can bring in National Geographic and other people to do stories and takes their pictures. Who benefiet's from this the GOVERNMENT and how much do they give to these Indian tribes? NADA....

I have tried to read thru all the comment thouroughly but got tired of the name calling and stuff. These indiginous tribes are already leaving their homes for the cities b/c they feel the quality of life is better for them there. Yes Brasilian public schools are very bad. The solution is maybe allowing missionaries or other Aid agencies to come in and teach these children. Keeping them isolated and primitive is not the solution for them ............It is improving for the government as they get to cash in on these tribes which is so awful b/c they are supposed to help them not destroy them. What is good if you want them to maintain their culture but they are dying out quickly so without the people there is no culture...

A concerned person

damn, seeing some of the comments here make me so sad, i cant believe there are such ignorant ethnocentric people in this world, so sad...

is also refreshingly interesting in and of itself, a fine example of a publication stepping outside of the hive mentality and coming up with something that feels personal. Even if I don't personally agree with a lot of it.

It is impossible not to be astonished by India. Nowhere on Earth does humanity present itself in such a dizzying, creative burst of cultures and religions, races and tongues. Enriched by successive

waves of migration and marauders from distant lands, every one of them left an indelible imprint which was absorbed into the Indian way of life. Every aspect of the country presents itself on a

massive, exaggerated scale, worthy in comparison only to the superlative mountains that overshadow it. It is this variety which provides a breathtaking ensemble for experiences that is uniquely

Indian. Perhaps the only thing more difficult than to be indifferent to India would be to describe or understand India completely. There are perhaps very few nations in the world with the enormous

variety that India has to offer. Modern day India represents the largest democracy in the world with a seamless picture of unity in diversity unparalleled anywhere else."
http://www.travelindia360.net