Brazzil

i have a group project to do for schooling. anyway we have to find a city in brazil that their government will let us open a popcorn business in...do you know any??

We are seeing a good example of the weakness of this system in the recent appointment of a new energy and mines minister, Edison Lobão. Although the country is facing an energy crisis, Lobão has absolutely no qualifications for the job.

No worries. Sen.Edison will receive on the job training and within a couple of months will become an expert in Energy,Mining , Finance, etc; and apply his newly acquired knowledge to solve the present and future crisis. A man with Future Vision and his admirers wish him all the best.

Petrobras should merge with Exxonmobil

And Exxon will be controlled by Brazilian government !
Not a good idea....in my view !

Just look at Cia Vale wishing to take over Xstrata. The Brazilian Government is strongly against that idea because it will reduce investments and jobs growth in Brazil.

Simple proof that Brazil is certainly NOT for globalization.... when brazilians companies wants tgo invest outside the country.....but pro-globalization when foreigners invest in Brazil....only if they dont take control of a Brazilian company.

More Filthy and one way thinking....there is not !

PROFIT!!! Exxonmobile reports today. Petrobras has a long way to go to catch up to those guys. No wonder they're selling gasoline for 6 dollars a gallon here in Brazil.

"Brazilians are an optimistic people ....."

"Its farmers grow everything....."

"It has an entrepreneurial class,...."

Those three paragraphs in the article above from which I high lighted the leading statements was my main attraction to Brazil so many years ago. Brazil needs to find itself again.

"Brazilians are an optimistic people ....."

"Its farmers grow everything....."

"It has an entrepreneurial class,...."

It used to be true.But now we are rudderless as well as leaderless. The educated middle class is voiceless .Currently the "political entrepreneurs" are running the country! That is the reason why there are so many ministries.

I do not think that the is a possibility of Petrobras being privatized or merging with any foreign oil company. On the other hand, the next institutions might be the two federal banks (BB & CEF).

First of all the 40 bi profit has nothing to do with brazil. This kind of profit makes the america hard working people very sick and wondering how come the governmemt is not doing anything about it when the average heating oil has going up 130% withing the past 2 years. That is right middle and low income americans are paying 3,000 dollars this winter to heat a small 1600 SF. home, not counting electric bills of $ 570 dollars monthly. So if this is good news to you Bo because of the fact that you live in a country with a strong growing economy... so be it. Do me a favor would you? Turn the lights inside your assss on when you start to brag about the US and get your head out of it and smell the coffee once in a while.
Ohh yeah one other thing, as far as I 've been reading Petrobraz invest heavly into the country with all kinds of money and programs. Do you see any American oil company doing any of that?

"I do not think that the is a possibility of Petrobras being privatized or merging with any foreign oil company. On the other hand, the next institutions might be the two federal banks (BB & CEF). "

I hope there is no possibility of privatization or merger for all three instutions also; however, the status quote with regards to management and politics cannot continue either.

Ohh yeah one other thing, as far as I 've been reading Petrobraz invest heavly into the country with all kinds of money and programs. Do you see any American oil company doing any of that?

Sure they do! Exxon Mobile funds rightwing think tanks designed solely to tell lay folk that science is bunk, the world is perfectly fine, climate change is a hoax and that the more carbon in the atmosphere (read: please burn more of our fuels) the more you can grow crops in the Arctic. Who says that Exxon and other oil companies don’t do their part for the betterment of America?

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/exxon-secrets

Gringo is an interesting blogger and a good friend of mine. Do you have anything to say about his comments? I thought he was leading an expedition to the Antarctic, because he has not been expressing his opinion for the past couple of weeks. May be, he did not want to interfere in the domestic affairs of Brasil

Point well taken Gringo. You are absolutely right, this is the only thing the american oil companies do for America. give-me give-me give-me ...that all they know!

I hope there is no possibility of privatization or merger for all three instutions also; however, the status quote with regards to management and politics cannot continue either.

This is an interesting topic. I hope Ricardo Amaral is reading our comments. He mentioned in one of his comments that even the Zoo in B.Aires was privatized!

BTW, I hope you guys read the article "Richest Man in Africa wants a piece of Brazil". He tried to buy Brasil Telecom and failed! The question is do we really want foreign investment?

First, lets set the record straight on Exon Mobile, as a private company with a product to sell and they have a right to make as much profit as they can, all large oil companies including foreign Shell and BP had record 4th quarter profits and they have a legal and moral responsibility to do so for their stockholders. Gas is over $3.00 a gallon and there is no significant drop in driving or traveling in the US, although there seems to be a drop in big cars and SUV's. Until there is a market in renewable energy, oil companies will continue to make profits...good for them. I am sure you socailists on this site are looking forward to Clinton "confiscating" these profits and then letting the government invest them, be careful what you wish for. By the way, Exxon pays 2 dollars in taxes for every dollar of profit it makes, you morons should do the math.

Now for Brazil, Joao should be more optimistic, Brazil is a young democracy and I beleive they are on the verge of doing something really special, I pray that the don't sqander this opportunity as they have so many times before, their economy is red hot and countries are pouring investment dollars in. Lula, to everyones surprise has been very pro-market, resisting the Chavez path and should be commended. But lets hope the next group of Brazilian leaders are much more expereinced at running an economy and make the necessary changes to fuel continued growth, like tax cuts for the middle class and lower interest rates, these two thing would fuel incredable growth in the economic health of the middle class, which would ultimatly and rapidly reduce poverty, lets hope they don't blow it again.

I am sure you socailists on this site are looking forward to Clinton "confiscating" these profits and then letting the government invest them, be careful what you wish for. By the way, Exxon pays 2 dollars in taxes for every dollar of profit it makes, you morons should do the math.

Great, another rightwing provocateur with comprehension problems and SBS (severe babbling syndrome). Well GTY before you leap into another conspiracy theory about socialists and the downfall of civilization they so secretly covet you may wish to give your head a shake and read what it is people (and the Greenpeace link) are actually giving Exxon s**t for.

No one here is questioning making a profit, heck I do alright myself, however I do find it down right morally objectionable for companies to secretly fund covert think tanks and fake science groups with the sole purpose to obfuscate an already complicated science and use these groups for political subterfuge. There has been a war waged on science from both the corporate end and the religious end in the US for some time, with a spill over into the rest of the planet, and idiots like yourself parrot the talking points these bankrolled spin masters create. FUNDING to the tune of 23 million dollars from EXXON MOBILE. Surprise surprise.

Earning a buck or a billion is NOT the question, however profiting while lying to and cheating those you are earning your money from while simultaneously creating more dire state for the planet as a whole is another issue.

But then again, “Greed is Good”, in your book, eh? Anything to make a buck? A sucker born every minute? I reckon you’re the type of fool that would have stuffed a cigarette into his kid`s yap to prove the science was UNCERTAIN on tobacco while praising Phillip Morris as a model of capitalistic integrity, or poured lead over him to prove that gas injected with ethyl wasn’t harmful to us either?

When making the dosh that EXXON makes maybe, just maybe, they could use a small smidgeon of their 40 billion profits for R & D in renewables (instead of the 90% they invest in exploration) as well as invest in programs that actually contribute to something meaningful instead of funding slick smear campaigns designed solely to soil the work of hard working scientists. Christ, they’ll admit publicly that there are environmental problems associated with their industry and then fund two or three dozen groups to the tune of 23 million dollars just to spread the seeds of doubt to easily malleable minds such as your own. What a great corporate citizen to look to up to. Any other corporate heros you have? Enron? Worldcom? Union Carbide? United Fruits? The Captain of the EXXON Valdez?

Look where Bushies science ADVISORS eventually ended up. You need to see the piece to the end to really appreciate it! Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0i4Sx1edJE

BTW, I hope you guys read the article "Richest Man in Africa wants a piece of Brazil". He tried to buy Brasil Telecom and failed! The question is do we really want foreign investment?

In terms of privatising the telephony industry in Brazil, there is no other way of describing it other than: a blessing. When it was public it was insane. I arrived here shortly after the industry was privatized and still ended up renting a line from a second party for a year (maybe two) to have a phone at home. Telebras begat a whole underground industry in selling lines that took forever to die. I’ve heard stories of people spending upwards of 2-5 thousand Reais for a single phone line when the system was public (Joao’s insight here would be most welcome). Things are much better now, but Brasil Telecom is STILL a monopoly and treats its clients accordingly. Their service is crap (compared to Ma Bell in Canada), their prices outrageous and if you go to Procom to lodge a complaint, you’ll see that Brasil Telecom makes up about 80% of Procom`s work.

Buying a monopoly is good business for anyone. If I were of that ilk of wealth of course I’d try and purchase a telecommunications monopoly. It’s a license to print money. Trading one monopoly for another however, regardless if foreigners are involved or not, will improve nothing for us mere service users here in Bananalandia. I’d like to see the playing field opened up so as to create an industry based on competition, and then we’d see the same type of price wars going on as with our internet service provider.

We just dumped Terra for Brturbo because BRturbo was hounding us and made an offer which was a faction of the price that Terra had been charging us for years. When we cut Terra loose, they vowed to get us back and with a better offer. Now they are hounding us. Dump the monopolies! How hard can it be? The lines are public are they not?

Just one think to say to your response GRINGO.
BRILLIANT!!!

I'm not sure I can subscribe to your lablel as a "right wing provocateur"; as I am totally frustrated with US imperialistic occupations and wish Bush would take his proposed 3 trillion dollar new budget a stuff it up his ass. Just the fact that you provided me with a "Greenpeace link" helps me understand exactly whom I am responding too. You and your extreme left socialist friends have been a fringe minority since your existance and fortunatly you will remain that way...forever.

The fact that you even admit making a profit is refreshing, but my guess is it isn't a very big one, perhaps one day you can put on your big boy pants and understand and participate in the wonders of a free market economy, but first, cut off the pony tail so someone will give you a real job. You talk about the "right wing conspiricay" then in the next paragraph write of the "secret and covert think tanks and fake science groups" employed by the oil companies. Who my Gringo friend is subscribing to conspirices? Exxon is a public company, therefore they can not do anything "covertly"; if they are breaking the law...prove it; if you leftwing; anti American, anti business wingnuts can prove it I am sure you can find some pro bono attorney to try and prosecute it...but no one has. Your argument with Exxon and other big business is that they make too much money, how anti American is that?

And your Greenpeace position on climate change is foolish at best, always good for a few laughs; you laud the scientists who question the left wing research, if which many are prominent and in the private sector, yet you praise your friends in academia who pull s**t out of thin air and you believe it is "science"; if your friends were quality scientists, they wouldn't be leaning over the lab bench in some liberal university with a pony tail and sneakers, they would be doing real work in real science, your scientists are the perverbial bottom of the barrel. While climate change seems to be happening, it is important to undertsand the real cause, not just make s**t up like your hero Al Gore.

Your right; "making a buck" is not the question...making a million bucks is and I doubt very much you have ever gotten close to that goal, to do so you need to understand macro economics and finance; I am sure this is not your strong suit. I'll bet "the man" has kept you from making your full potential. But I really do fell sorry for you if $3.00 a gallon gas is having an impact on your life, I still smile when I fill up the Hummer, American is wonderful.

Exxon uses much more than a 'small smiggen" in R&D, as do all of the oil companies' but renewable energy will only be reality if there is a market for it and they only way there is a market for it is if people change their driving and conservation habits, look at Brazil ...the only way. It won't change by government mandate; it will change when there is a market for renewable energy products. Yes they have a ton of money to protect their interests and there are plently of dirty politicans that take their money and do their bidding, we are occupying a foreign land because of our thirst for oil, but I don't begrudge any one or any company making as much money as they can, to put limits on profits would be a slippery slope indeed. If they are doing something illegal...prove it. Morality is subject to interpretation. It would be immoral of exxon to cheat their stockholders of as much profit as they can make.

Now, for your homework assignment; look up the word monopoly.

Ah, argumentative fallacies, the “my boat is bigger than your boat” and as usual, not a single fact to back up your rambling childlike gibberish. You have Republican written all over you.

Exxon has been proven and have admitted to funding just what was mentioned, solely for the purpose obfuscating an important global issue. Since you easily dismissed the Greenpeace link, here’s one from Newsweek. Same issue, same information. Care to debunk it, or do you want to continue and guess my hairstyle?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/32482

The fact that you even admit making a profit is refreshing, but my guess is it isn't a very big one, perhaps one day you can put on your big boy pants and understand and participate in the wonders of a free market economy, but first, cut off the pony tail so someone will give you a real job.

What’s this? Care swap bank accounts? How about we just both place our dicks on the table for the ladies to measure? Is that your means of debate? No wonder dealing American knuckle draggers is pointless – you are as shallow as you are ignorant.

Just the fact that you provided me with a "Greenpeace link" helps me understand exactly whom I am responding too.

So who am I? Care to elaborate on your sophomoric diatribe, or is simple name calling and saying “your daddy is bigger than my daddy” sufficient these days to get you through life? I personally think Greenpeace is great! Seeing them jumping in front of harpoon guns in the Antarctic to protect whales from the Japanese, how could you NOT respect that type of determination and dedication to a cause?

You talk about the "right wing conspiricay" then in the next paragraph write of the "secret and covert think tanks and fake science groups" employed by the oil companies. Who my Gringo friend is subscribing to conspirices?

Nothing conspiratorial at all. It’s all well documented.

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/exxon-mobil-first-steps1/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/sep/19/ethicalliving.g2

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/greenbiz/archives/2007/05/exxons_climate.html

I’m not surprised you wouldn’t know something widely proven given your academic shortcomings, but I guess you can always buy another ring for your trophy wife to make yourself feel better, eh.

Exxon is a public company, therefore they can not do anything "covertly"; if they are breaking the law...prove it;

Actually I said it was “morally objectionable”, but again, you don’t seem to think anything is morally objectionable if it earns a profit. We’ve established that like we have establish how piss poor your comprehension is.

if you leftwing; anti American, anti business wingnuts can prove it

Well, I’m none of those. I don’t hate America (although Americans are rather loud and annoying for the most part), I’m far from “leftwing” and I’d be a hypocrite if I were anti business (I already established that fact). So, strike three! I do have a problem with people and companies that feel they have the right to manipulate the public and scapegoat scientists simply to sell a product. What EXXON is doing is no different than what the Tobacco industry did and what the lead industry did years earlier. They went out of their way to lie to a public simply to sell a hazardous product. If you are too dumb to see that, than I only hope you don’t breed.

I am sure you can find some pro bono attorney to try and prosecute it...but no one has. Your argument with Exxon and other big business is that they make too much money, how anti American is that?

Making money is only an American ideal? You should have shut up long ago, now you’re simply embarrassing yourself. As for suing EXXON, too late, or should I say wait in line? You really need to read more.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/20/business/climate.php

And your Greenpeace position on climate change is foolish at best, always good for a few laughs; you laud the scientists who question the left wing research, if which many are prominent and in the private sector, yet you praise your friends in academia who pull s**t out of thin air and you believe it is "science"; if your friends were quality scientists, they wouldn't be leaning over the lab bench in some liberal university with a pony tail and sneakers, they would be doing real work in real science, your scientists are the perverbial bottom of the barrel. While climate change seems to be happening, it is important to undertsand the real cause, not just make s**t up like your hero Al Gore.

Wow, what gibberish. Can you break this down into something even remotely resembling the English language? Maybe take a deep breath and think each thought through before banging away at your keyboard like a deranged psychopath. As for your last line, it is obvious that buffoons like you only came to know about climate change because of a film (reading is something that tires you I imagine) but let me educate your sorry ass and say that the issue of global warming has been on the world agenda for decades. Sadly it needed a partisan voice in the US before anyone THERE paid attention. Americans are not known for their intellectual currency and prefer horse races.

As for scientists? Ya we know, you little Christian Republicans hate science, hate scientists, and hate people that make you feel stupid and hate people that question whether or not the universe was created by some supernatural mass murderer over seven days simply by snapping his fingers.

Exxon uses much more than a 'small smiggen" in R&D,

In comparison to their exploration budget it IS a smidgeon, almost non existent, but we knew you wouldn’t know that. We’ve proven again and again here that you’re not that bright. And alternative fuels are already a reality as well as alternative energy sources. And the market will in fact embrace them as those sorry little excuses for scientists with ponytails and sandals your hate so much develop more efficient and more effective technologies. And they would get more help if EXXON was funding denialism in the land of the easily malleable.

to put limits on profits would be a slippery slope indeed. If they are doing something illegal...prove it. Morality is subject to interpretation. It would be immoral of exxon to cheat their stockholders of as much profit as they can make.

Who said anything about limiting profits? You really need to give your head a shake and brush up on comprehension skills. As to “morality” being subject to “interpretation”? Would you let anyone tell your child that smoking was healthy? Let’s see where your interpretation of morality comes to play.

Now, for your homework assignment; look up the word monopoly.

I know what the term involves, and I can ensure you that there is much more meaning behind it than the name of a silly board game. Now get a book,, learn something, and STFU… mmmmmk....

Go back to the bong son; I would suggest Milton Friedman as some light reading. There is no civil debate with the hateful left fringe and I would be happy to compare both bank accounts and eductaional pedigrees if you wish, dick too, but you are a gringo and i'm not, so lets take bets first. Actually I'm an independent, just might pull the lever for Obama, but that's because I am a thinker not a lemming like you. So much anger, I must have hit a raw nerve. Facts are facts; you just can't make s**t up and make it true. The problem with you folks from acadademia is that you like to say things that make you "feel good" and disregard the facts that make up the real world. Life is real, not theory, but you have learned that by your lack of achivements havn't you. None of us smoke, my kids play sports, my youngest is 10, he alreay knows how important it is to win, at almost any cost, something I am sure your hippe parents never taught you. I hope they don't smoke, its pretty stupid, but smoking is still legal, its people choice until it isn't.

I am really glad that we have more people committed to generating wealth and jobs than those of you who would like to see us have to share our wealth to take care of those of you on the tit of America. Hey, I hear there is a protest tomorrow, it doesn't really matter what for, but all of your anarchist buddies will be there smoking dope and eating shrooms. Must piss you off to see an imigrant, conservative, well to do business man refuting all of the crap you spread to the uneductaed legions on this blog, giving them another (correct) view.

By the way, I have eaten whale meat in Japan, not half bad either.

but you are a gringo and i'm not, so lets take bets first.

So what ARE you, other than a synaptically challenged bigot?

Well, I’m glad you are scurrying off with your tail between your legs, so readily. That was too easy. But your comeback sure was a zinger! Whale meat? Wow, that was funny. I’ll remember that “fer sure, ya’ll”!

I noticed that you didn’t even try and refute one single link posted: I guess NEWSWEEK, the GUARDIAN, the INDEPENDANT and BUSINESS WEEK are all too "leftist" for you. Well, I’ll dig up a FOX news link too just for you OK Pedro?

And really, who cares if the Tobacco industry, lead industry, CFC industry and gas companies lie to Americans like you right? Win at ALL cost, that´s what you teach you kids right? Ya, I guess I am some rabid leftist who loves stupid little things like fresh air, accountable governments and honesty from corporations. What horrible silly things to demand.

Have a nice life Pedro!

"Have a nice life Pedro!"

Who's the biggot? A racial slur; you are all alike. Nice fluffy liberals when it suits you, sheet wearing Nazi's when it doesn't. I can assure you, I will have a nice life, I have worked hard to make sure of that.

Have a nice life Gomer.

A racial slur; you are all alike. Nice fluffy liberals when it suits you

I told you I wasn’t a leftist (or liberal although I bet you really couldn’t define the terms), and where is there racial slur? Since when is “Pedro” (a quite popular name I imagine throughout the Americas) a racial slur? Me thinks someone has identity and acceptance issues.

You’re just typically stupid. There is no hiding it for convenience; it’s out in the open for everyone to see.

You site leftwing websites for your links, admire Greenpeace, the Sierra Club too I assume, advocate income re-distribution and the confiscation of corporate profits, flawed science from the left submitted by the academia, ponytail, $50K a year, PhD crowd. I work with scientisits everday, not fake scientists but real ones from big pharma, doing real science, oh, no!, not big pharma, I am sure you are out for their profits too..and you claim you are not liberal or leftwing?

Why pick the name Pedro? Did you want to hurt my feelings? I am truly hurt. You picked a common hispanic name, to try and insult, thus, you are obviously a racist, as many liberals are, closet racists. You can call me stupid, you always seem to revert to name calling when you are challenged intellectualy, but then you have limited intellect. But you must be really styling right now, it is the first of the month and welfare checks just came out...better get to the 7-11 and get a 40oz.

Wow

One more time. Deep breath. In. Out. In. Out.

Now to your psycho babble..

You site leftwing websites for your links, admire Greenpeace, the Sierra Club too I assume, advocate income re-distribution and the confiscation of corporate profits.

Prove it! Where? Give me a link that shows Greenpeace or the SC advocate income redistribution or shut the f**k up. You may sucker most Yanks with your lies, given how easy they are to lie to (WMD in Iraq cough cough), but you can’t get that s**t by me.

The other websites I presented were the Guardian, The Independent and Newsweek. It’s not my fault you have a problem with facts.

OH, and you work with pharmos eh? qwa qwa qwa. That explains it all. Not only are you hopped up on who knows what, but you’re also working for one of the greediest industries out there. But no worries, I don’t dismiss them outright. And I don’t like companies that break their patents. Surprised?

I work with scientisits everday, not fake scientists but real ones from big pharma, doing real science, oh, no!

Sure you do. I’m sure with your mouth and your proven intellectual sharpness, you pass entire days chatting with these “real scientists”? Or do you just clean their trash at night? Still, what does that have to do with Exxon funding denier groups?

Why pick the name Pedro? Did you want to hurt my feelings? I am truly hurt. You picked a common hispanic name, to try and insult, thus, you are obviously a racist, as many liberals are, closet racists.

No, CULTURE had nothing to do with this whopping I’ve been giving you until you raised the fact that I was a “gringo” and therefore not trustworthy. You made the leap to culture. Not me. I simply figured that the only ones in the US that would use the nomenclature “Gringo” would be Brazilians or Mexicans (or some other group from LA) so I figured if I went through the names one by one I’d eventually get it right, ok Carlos? But it did cut close to the quick didn’t it? You have identity issues, or you wouldn’t throw out the victim card so quickly.

As for me being a lefty liberal, well I’ve already told you that I’m not. I am much too complicated to be divided through either right or left. Still, I bet you can’t even define Liberal. Do me a favour and take a shot at it.

I reckon for you it’s just a knee jerk expression you learned from the boys at the local redneck watering hole, and you toss it around whenever you don’t like what is being said. It’s the “Fox O’Reilly” way of dealing with information. Question the war? You’re a communist and Anti American. Question a company lying to the public? You’re a communist and Anti American. You don’t like apple pie? You’re a communist and Anti- American.

Talk about lemmings?

You can call me stupid, you always seem to revert to name calling when you are challenged intellectualy

I will call you stupid because you have proven yourself as such and there is nothing intellectual at all in any of your ramblings. In between fits of calling me a “leftist” only because I disapprove of a company funding smear campaigns aimed at disinformation directed at the public, and your childlike boasts of Hummers and salaries you’ve not offered anything here that can even be remotely considered a fact let alone intellectually stimulating.

Like I’ve said before, STFU.

If you lose the debate, you lose the first two rounds of cold ones I promised.So get the job done and behead GTY ASAP (or ask him to commit "Harakiri"). GTY is playing "Coitadinho"

If you lose the debate

You have doubts?

Wow, what an interesting debate. It reflects the real world: The conservative uses name calling and pigeon-holing for his arguments, and the non-partisan, opposing view cites information with links to credible sources backing up his arguments.

Gee, I wonder who is closer to the truth?

Wow Gringo, you have out done yoursel! Don't bust a blood vessel, so much anger, its not good for you, take a pill, or 20. Its fun to try and analyze folks on this site, thats why I pop in from time to time...still the same, a bunch of idealistic morons trying to save the whales. Sometimes I think that I, and maybe Joao really get it. Its hard for me to believe so many of you live with your heads up your asses.

It was fun and I will check back in one day, have to catch a flight this morning to sell more drugs to big pharma; since you are probably un or under employed, I am sure you will roll out of bed around 11:00 to check you email, the highlight of your day,please hold my spot until I pop back in when I get bored...which is not often.

You really are a friggen moron, I have been leading you around by the nose for two days and you didn't even know it, even Joao recognized it. Care to explain Joao? Its no wonder the liberal agenda never works, you guys are just so angry, its hard to be rational when you are contantly pissed. You liberals get truely pissed off because you are so unhappy with your lots in life, low incomes, poor healthcare, just dreaming of a new Prius instead of being able to afford one. Are you in one of the Super Tuesday states? Then go vote for Clinton, she is going to take more of my tax dollars (I am in the top 1%) and use it to provide you with more freebes...so you should be thanking me (your welcome!). Those of us who create wealth and actually have enough to be true consumers keep your pathetic little world running...geez, how can you even get out of bed in the morning?

So lets recap where we started. No matter how much you would like it to; Big Oil is not going away, either is big defense or big pharma or any other big business, in fact right now Exxon is having their "secret meetings" to plan their strategy to reach $50B in profits, this in a softening economy, politicians and their lobbyists will take their dirty money and life will go on. God Bless them!

The econmy is going to take a turn for the worse, already has, it happens every 20 years or so. High oil prices, inflation, weak dollar equals unemployemnt, foreclosures and for people like me opportunity. You and your liberal friends are in for a few tough years, I am sure you will all bicth and complain, lose your pathetic jobs, go into more debit and hope the govenrment can take care of you while you worry yourselves bald. Me and my friends will find countless new opportunites in your misery, we have all worked hard, out smarted all of you left wing wingnuts and have been waiting for this economy for a long time. While you try and push your bills, I will be buying my fourth home, planning a month in Europe and making sure my kids get the best education money can buy.

You see; there really is a sucker born every minute...right Joao?

Ya gotta love America, where else can a dyslexic idiot with rabid turrets syndrome and no idea of how to create or defend an argument get a job selling Prozac and Viagra? Well Chico, given your comprehension and grammatical skills, I take it you were employed under the affirmative action plan, no? I can’t see anyone hiring you on merit alone. You’re too stupid for words. But, I digress.

Anyways Jose, you’re a fraud and a huckster, a liar and from all accounts here, extremely delusional and easily set off. But I will give you credit, you exemplify the ugly dumb American image most cling to.

As to the original point, I assume you have acquiesced to the fact that Exxon has funded groups with the sole purpose of manipulating science? Or do you need a few more links? I’ve notice you have stayed clear of this point for two or three posts now. Your silence on the matter has you throwing in the towel.

As for the rest of your rant – well, as per usual, it made no sense at all. A long winded pointless diatribe aimed at some fictitious character you have created in your pill-popped delusional head. No creativity, no thought, no analysis, just an idiot froathing away spewing bile and nonsense. And you call “Liberals” angry? Btw, have you even defined Liberal yet? Or is it simply anyone who is smarter than you?

Well sunshine, you go and sell your pills. Sounds like fascinating work. Really, exciting stuff! Good for you. I’m going to get back to my tofu, sing Kumbaya, smoke pot and what else?

Now go catch your flight, leave the forum and don’t let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. Check in whenever you feel the need to embarrass yourself again. Or to let us know that you just bought the Eiffel Tower and the Pyramids with your millions, mkkkk?

You picked a common hispanic name, to try and insult, thus, you are obviously a racist, as many liberals are, closet racists.

That's Gringo. He is the one that believe that Indians shouldn't receive education and should be kept "in their place", i.e., the stone age. I have reached the conclusion for what I can see in forums like these and in other places that the most zealous people regarding the "respect for other cultures and identities" are usually those who doesn't admit intermingling. If you step a centimeter out of the "pre-approved stereotype" they start pointing fingers and saying that you are "denying" who you are, meanwhile they promote stupidity among Indians and other non-white ethnicities as a form of "being proud".

I am proud, of my bank account!

"I am proud, of my bank account! "

Good for you Brazilian, you should be! And you hit the "gringo" nail on the head!

"no idea of how to create or defend an argument get a job selling Prozac and Viagra? "

No way Gomer...not enough $$$ in it, I sell the ingredients to make Viagra and Prozac, as well as hundreds of other drugs. Gonna be in Sao Paulo next week visiting Pfizer and Sanofi; entertaining customers at Clube Bahamas. I would invite you; but you couldn't get in the door, there is a cover charge way beyond your means and well, if you really are a gringo, it would be all too much for you. Brazilian women need brown men, they grow weary of pale gringos...but the good news is they don't expect much from them either Viva La Raza, Viva the good old USA. Where else can a browm man have a white man cutting his lawn, cleabing his toilets and washing his cars?!! And have a high speed internet connection so he can punk left wing "gringo" liberals.

Hey aren't you suppose to be on a flight? What a lying piece of work you are. No surprises that Ape would befriend you.

That's Gringo. He is the one that believe that Indians shouldn't receive education and should be kept "in their place", i.e.

We know your comprehension skills are about the same as the lying, "oh I need to catch a flight" GTY's Your both dumber than a box of hammers. But to refresh your limited memory, were told time and time again that these groups could "do as they liked" (that's called SELF DETERMINATION), I objected to your forced indoctrination and your FINAL SOLUTION to the cultures you deemed "Ignorant and dead". You don't see the difference, and given your Cro magnon mentality, you never will. As for pushing the limits of snobbery, your condemnation of Carnaval was probably a more rabid attack on Brazilan culture than even Ch.c could muster. I loved it!

I'm glad you two boys found one another, it's the prefect match.

If you step a centimeter out of the "pre-approved stereotype" they start pointing fingers and saying that you are "denying" who you are, meanwhile they promote stupidity among Indians and other non-white ethnicities as a form of "being proud".

A classic Apism! Full of "THEYs" "YOUs" and not a single fact or name. Like that magical group the "SOME" you thought were keeping the "IGNORANTS" stupid to protect resources to an a first world lifestyle....

if you really are a gringo, it would be all too much for you. Brazilian women need brown men, they grow weary of pale gringos...but the good news is they don't expect much from them either smilies/smiley.gif Viva La Raza, Viva the good old USA. Where else can a browm man have a white man cutting his lawn, cleabing his toilets and washing his cars?!! And have a high speed internet connection so he can punk left wing "gringo" liberals.

Nothing much to add here GTY, you outclassed me. So were would I be able to get one of those jobs "CLEABING" toilets?
You're just going out of your way to prove a whole host of stereotypes today eh? I thought you were flying? Now you on your way to Sao Paulo? Ya, ok...

We actually have a hotspot here in the FLL airport, unlike the third world armpit you are probably typing from;it gives me a chance for a last laugh at your left wing, liberal dribble. First to Puerto Rico..and THEN to Sao Paulo. Its gonna be a great trip. I think your mom already has the job CLEABING my toilets. Enjoy, seems like a lot of posters have your number, I am pleasantly surprized.

I actually have a laptop I can travel with, golly gee Gomer, try packing that 10 year old desk top in your travel bag!

We actually have a hotspot here in the FLL airport, unlike the third world armpit you are probably typing from;it gives me a chance for a last laugh at your left wing, liberal dribble.

Sure you are at an airport? Sure you are.

And what third world armpit would I be typing from? Viva la raca!

Still, I particularly like when you wrote:

if you really are a gringo, it would be all too much for you. Brazilian women need brown men, they grow weary of pale gringos...but the good news is they don't expect much from them either smilies/smiley.gif Viva La Raza

That certainly was a classy line. Nothing left to the imagination. Pure bigotry. Like I said, you sure do go out of your way to reaffirm stereotypes. I hope your as well accepted being a Latin in the US, as you accept others.

Enjoy, seems like a lot of posters have your number, I am pleasantly surprized.

How does ABE constitute "A LOT"? One retarded fascist individual does not constitute a LOT no matter how hard you try and sell the idea. Actually, MKJ was siding with me although your piss poor comprehension skills probably blinds you to the glaringly obvious. And, he has YOUR number in the discussion part of the article he wrote. Have a look.

Enjoy your flight

You see; there really is a sucker born every minute...right Joao?

Wrong. GTY, how can you be so dumb to get into a debate without re reading "Art of War"? Last year you claimed that you had read this book. It is obvious that you read everything and learn' t nothing. Of course if our master Sun Tzu was a Mexican, you would have gone overboard and remembered every word he said."Know Your Enemy" is something you should have remembered. You made too many assumptions about "El Gringo" and ignored his cunning and subterfuge tactics.On the contrary, he had studied every micro details of you. It was obvious from the beginning that you were behaving like that Limey fella who lead the "Charge of the Light Brigade" (I don't even want to cite that Custer, because you may start claiming that you are his direct descendant).

Every single blogger in this thread (though I don't see many except us) will agree that you lost the debate. I recommend that you surrender. In order to make your life easier, I have personally spoken to the "Porteiro" of Clube Bahamas to accept your unconditional surrender and show some clemency on you (He may ask for a bigger tip, but you can afford it).

What an ignominious end to a proud Hispanic American like you to end up in the dungeons of Clube Bahamas and rot there for rest of your life

You win… “The most words for the smallest idea.”

You were, you are and you will always be a prick FDP. If you ever bite your tongue, you will die from acid poisoning.

Yours truly,

Costinha da Costa

You are starting to nauseate many of us by inserting your talking head so far up gringo’ S and seeing things from his point of view… quit appeasing that gringo puto!

Costinha

Are not too far behind the S hole contest. Fight global warming by shutting your freaking mouth, infectious genital.

Costinha

http://www.businessinnovationi... troll.jpg

"You are starting to nauseate many of us by inserting your talking head so far up gringo’ S and seeing things from his point of view… quit appeasing that gringo puto! "

Is it dark up there Joao?

But to refresh your limited memory, were told time and time again that these groups could "do as they liked" (that's called SELF DETERMINATION), I objected to your forced indoctrination and your FINAL SOLUTION to the cultures you deemed "Ignorant and dead".

While you ignored the fact that it's not possible for a parent to deny their children education. There's no "self-determination" in the world that could prevent kids from going to the school.

They would "self-determine" after turning 18 years old and having at least the high school complete, then they could choose if life in the jungle is better than life in the civilization.

They are a cultural dead end and that's a fact. We are in the 21st century and they are in the stone age.

If you haven’t noticed, Gringo gangrened writing style conforms to a 2 part format:

1)First – Big words which he finds on Webter’s, and a large quantity of that (100 tons worth of double talking), followed by 1 oz of actual reason;

2)Second – Then he resorts to vulgarity to drive his argumentative compulsion, caused by his fat-filled cranium gap!

Simple really! Last time this S.H.I.T. MAGGOT was sued, the judge said "Order in the court," and Gringo said, "I'll have a hamburger and a Coke."

That’s what happens on you are raised on McDonald’s food.

Costinha

Abe, arguing with you is like, well, arguing with a Brazilian; mind numbingly frustrating, bizarrely surreal and sadly futile. You really don’t seem to grasp the whole idea of debate and how the whole question and answer thing works, huh?

You’ve asked me, and I’ve responded -- on a number of occasions -- if I thought withholding education was a good thing. I said no. Everyone should have access to education, indigenous groups too if they so wish. No one should withhold education. Somehow that translates to you as “Gringo wants to keep the ignorants stupid”. How you’ve come up with that, I’ll never know. But than again, your name says it all.

When I ask you to return the favour and answer my questions, you turn tail and flee. I’ve asked a dozen times now: what do YOU intend to do, or what SHOULD BE DONE with indigenous groups that don’t want your education? There are many.

As for your talking point re: “Brazilian law” and education?

1. Laws in Brazil, in regards to education, DON´T WORK. Or you wouldn’t have millions of Brazilian children out of school. Brazil has one of the WORST educational systems on the planet and one of the highest dropout rates as well as the highest rates in LA of kids that have never attended. Lula admits this and your debating skills provide anecdotal proof to the crisis.

2. I’ve given you a link twice in regards to the Brazilian constitution which gives indigenous groups, more or less, the “right to be different” which includes education. They have a choice. You’ve not even mentioned or tried to refute that point. If you have problems with the Constitution take it up with Planalto, not me. However, until you’ve dealt with the Constitution all your cries about “It’s the law” fall on deaf ears.

I’ll repeat, you’ve not answered any of my questions. What do you propose should be done with groups who don’t want your education? What if these groups don’t think their culture is “DEAD” as you so ignorantly state? I’d LOVE you to try and visit the Kyapo and tell them that they live in the Stone Age, that their culture is dead, and that you think they are savages because they haven’t been given a great “Ole education”, in one of the worst educational systems on the planet. Be my guest.

If you were so concerned over indigenous issues (hey you claim ya got Injun blood inya) then you should focus on securing and guaranteeing their rights to their lands.

1)First – Big words which he finds on Webter’s, and a large quantity of that (100 tons worth of double talking), followed by 1 oz of actual reason;

What a surprise, Frik shows up literally seconds after Frak. Who’d have thunk it. What’s even better is little miss potty mouth has the nerve to accuse me of vulgarities. Maybe she should look up vulgarities in WEBTER´S dictionary?

Ya gotta love Brazil...

written by Gringo, 2008-02-07 15:08:26

Sir, arguing with Americans is like, well, arguing with an American; mind numbingly frustrating, bizarrely surreal and sadly futile. You really don’t seem to grasp the whole idea of debate and how the whole question and answer thing works, huh?

You’ve asked me, and I’ve responded -- on a number of occasions -- if I thought withholding education was a good thing. I said no. Everyone should have access to education, indigenous groups too if they so wish. No one should withhold education. Somehow that translates to you as “Gringo wants to keep the ignorants stupid”. How you’ve come up with that, I’ll never know. But than again, your name says it all.

When I ask you to return the “favour” (gringonorreah meant FAVOR) and answer my questions, you turn tail and flee. I’ve asked a dozen times now: what do YOU intend to do, or what SHOULD BE DONE with indigenous groups that don’t want your education? There are many.

As for your talking point re: “American law” and “No Child Left Behind” education?

1. Laws in the Unites States, in regards to education, DON´T WORK. Or you wouldn’t have millions of American children out of school. The USA has the WORST educational systems on the planet and one of the highest dropout rates as well as the highest rates in Americas of kids that have never attended. Bush admits this and his debating skills provide anecdotal proof to the crisis.

2. I’ve given you a link twice in regards to the BIG JOKE American constitution which gives indigenous groups, more or less, the “right to be different” which includes education. They have a choice. You’ve not even mentioned or tried to refute that point. If you have problems with the Constitution take it up with Washington, not me, because I AM A NOBODY! However, until you’ve dealt with the Constitution all your cries about “It’s the law” fall on deaf ears.

I’ll repeat, you’ve not answered any of my questions. What do you propose should be done with groups who don’t want your education? What if these groups don’t think their culture is “DEAD” as you so ignorantly state? I’d LOVE you to try and visit the Mohawks and tell them that they live in the Stone Age, that their culture is dead, and that you think they are savages because they haven’t been given a great “Ole (OLD) education”, in one of the worst educational systems on the planet. Be my guest.

If you were so concerned over indigenous issues (hey you claim ya got MOHAWKUM blood inya) then you should focus on securing and guaranteeing their rights to their lands.


That’s more like it!

Costa

Gringo(norreah), would you like some cheese and crackers to go with that whine? Gringo, the biggest maggot in the manure pile.

Ya gotta love the Americans...

Costinha

Thanks Costinha, Ye, “ole” bugger!

I agree. After reading GTY´s ramblings it’s pretty obvious that the USofA rolls out some pretty dumb individuals; almost as dumb as what the Brazilian system spits out.

But I’m a Canuck, eh! Ohhhh Canada! And we do spell favour with a u, as do the British.

Think outside the box next time dumbass.

Gringo(norreah), I knew there was something wrong with you besides being molested as a child. As it has being mentioned before, I think George Bush should invade Canada and get it over with.

What is Canada good for besides flying that silly looking flag? A God dam frozen wasteland only good for US draft dodgers and polar bears, still clinging to the old British empire as if it was anything of importance.

Interestingly enough, I see more and more freaking Canadians in Rio wanting to relocate here permanently. I ponder why should we take you, American wannabes, when your dollars is worth 50 cents on the American dollar. Yeah, we need Canadians in Brasil as much as salt in the desert.

Canadians are like Americans in every obnoxious way, but boring and broke. I think it sucks to be you!

Costinha

PS Canadá é uma merda e sempre sera!

I ponder why should we take you, American wannabes, when your dollars is worth 50 cents on the American dollar.

Actually, if you knew anything at all about world affairs, which is hilariously obvious you don’t, you’d know that the Canadian dollar is on par with the greenback, and just two months ago was worth more. So when trying to scrounge free beers on Copa from tourists I wouldn’t write off the Canucks too quickly. Mkkkkkk. Canadians are pretty generous too, although poor tippers. Just a wee tip from me to you, OK?

And yes, there are many Canadians visiting Brazil lately and some even moving here. Why shouldn’t there be? There is a lot to be had here and some great people too (it takes a while to sift the gold from the mud and crap, but it’s not impossible). There´s also Tens of THOUSANDS of Brazilians in Canada these days, so it´s not like you folks are a novelty for Canadians. And finally, you’re government has spent a fortune and has been bending over backwards to attract “quality tourists” as your politicians always call them. So of course there are more Aussies, Canucks and Kiwis rolling “abooot” (should I explain "abooot" for you or will you try and correct me again?).

You’re going to see an awful lot more green/blue-eyes filtering into the population over the coming years.

In terms of being boring, I sadly have to agree. Canadians are not known for letting their hair down. You’ll get NO argument from me on that.

You’re a Carioca eh? Ya, that figures. You folks go out of your way to have the rest of Brazil hate you....

In terms of being boring, I sadly have to agree. Canadians are not known for letting their hair down. You’ll get NO argument from me on that.

I sadly DISAGREE. What right do you folks from Yukon have to speak for rest of Canada?

You Canadians cannot pronounce the word “about” correctly.

Moreover, I don’t see anyone trading on Canadians dollars, do you? Canadian dollars may be good for Canadians. If I had them, I would quickly exchange them for US dollars, as much as I hate those American bastards.

Ahhhh, Canadáááá… sparsely populated ice cold country where 98% of the citizens are alcoholics. Most have government jobs where they are paid to say "Eh?" all day long.
Canadian patriotism? Let’s see… hockey, Molson beer, hockey, Molson beer, hockey, Molson beer, hockey, Molson beer… hilarious.
OK Canadá (I am calling you Canadá from now on!), by now I worked yourself into a seriously indignant, perturbed and self-righteous Canadalistic fury. Funny thing is that some American rednecks think all foreigners are scary, threatening people who are out to overthrow America. Rednecks fear outsiders, are poorly educated and patriotic to the point of stupidity. They also think Canadians to be a threat to the American way of life. No sense, Canadians have a hard time threatening pond beavers.

Anyway, you are “up” on my liking-scale since you are Canadian versus an Americanus.

Gotta love Canadians

Costinha

PS. João, shut up.

João, shut up.

As you say Dr.Costa. Thy wish is my command

I think I reenforced a bad practice a while back with ...(comatose) on the word exchange / words left out tactic to get to the heart of what rung true but was somewhat buried in the poster's commentary. For a second I though there was another one of those nagging double post prints above but I went back to read and found that B'commode-toast had done a fine job subbing in x for y and injecting comic humour. (Notice the presence of the "u" and lack of an "er" sounding ending.) Tanks cucocaheena - I laughed with the wives of the canuck's too. Chimo!

Joao taking witches for commands? Now that's a bit too much on the receivership side of things for you isn't it? Around our house that was pretty much the one and only thing that we absolutely would not let the kids say to mom and dad. RU dead or dying?

I DISAGREE. What right do you folks from Yukon have to speak for rest of Canada?

sparsely populated ice cold country where 98% of the citizens are alcoholics.

True! All true, and I have friends that would pay you money to go to the Canadian Consulates in Brazil and tell people standing in line for Visas just this!

Most have government jobs where they are paid to say "Eh?" all day long.

Most have government jobs where they are paid to IGNORE you all day. Getting an “eh” from an actual human and not a machine would be a start!

Canadian patriotism? Let’s see… hockey, Molson beer, hockey, Molson beer, hockey, Molson beer, hockey, Molson beer… hilarious.

That´s why Brazil and Canada have so much in common; Footchybolly, Skol, Footchybolly, Skol, Footchybolly, Skol. Yes, hilarious on both counts.

I am calling you Canadá from now on!

Now that’s offensive!

They also think Canadians to be a threat to the American way of life. No sense, Canadians have a hard time threatening pond beavers.

Actually, Yanks do fear the Canadian political mindset. We’re all socialist COMMIES to the ill-informed south of the boarder. And too true, we don’t pose a threat to beavers but damn if the seals aren’t running scared.

BTW, for your arsenal of nation attacks you may wish to remind people that Canada has chosen a RODENT that, when cornered, will gnaw of its own testicles as their national animal! I got a million of them, feel free to borrow from my repertoire when you feel your creativity fleeing.

“
BTW, for your arsenal of nation attacks you may wish to remind people that Canada has chosen a RODENT that, when cornered, will gnaw of its own testicles as their national animal! I got a million of them, feel free to borrow from my repertoire when you feel your creativity fleeing.
“

Hehehehehehehehehe!

Costa

PS. Hehehehehehehe

I know you guys don't know me personally, just by posts and pictures. My husband Steve just passed away yesterday leaving me and our 5 year old son behind. I haven't worked for quite a while and we just moved to MN. I have a lot of things to settle including his cremation, now I am waiting for the results of the autopsy also legal issues such of life insurance, social security, etc. If anyone have advice I highly appreciate. Please pray for me and my son and Steve's family to help us cope with this difficult moment that caught all of us by surprise.
After, I take care of everything. I plan to return to Brazil and I am looking to find out of any sites with Brazilian jobs. I speak near native English, know how to type and have basics computer skills. There is nothing left for me here because he is gone. I cannot find words to describe the loss of my best friend, loving father and amazing soul. He was full of life and love and I am sure upon on me and Dominique. If anyone wishes to contact me for any type of support, please e-mail at: modelanapaula@hotmail.com
I don't have any family in the US and they cannot come here because of Visas and such. His company is helping me with legal things and such but I am in need of emotional support even if it is just words. I have never lost anyone close to me and being a young person(24) alone with a small child is quite difficult, especially to thing he will grow up without his dad. I love Steve more than anything in this world and yesterday over his body I bagged for him to exchange places and take me instead.
God Bless you all!

Anna, you have my sincere condolences.

So very sad to hear of your misfortune Ana.

Please accept my heartfelt condolences.

May Steve´s soul R.I.P.

Toronto has a great "Little Brazil" in Toronto and I don't think there are alot of Canadians lining up for Brazil with it's violence and it's ranking on the Gini inex....

I am from Europe but been to Canada many times and Canadian Rockies are so beautiful..sorry Sugar Loaf Mountain!!

Toronto has a great "Little Brazil" in Toronto

So, what does the "Little Brazil" do in Toronto? Promoting the Brazilian culture? Please do enlighten us.

I don't think there are alot of Canadians lining up for Brazil with it's violence and it's ranking on the Gini inex....

I don't know how to answer you, but I can assure you that there are no "Little Canada" , "Little America", "Little England", etc; in our state. However, we do have an old building called "Edificio Canada" in our city and I have not found one single Canuk there so far. May be in big cosmopolitan cities like Rio and São Paulo, they have "Little Xs".

I am from Europe but been to Canada many times

I am impressed that you are an European.By any chance, are you related to my friend Ch.c?

I am not trying to play off Canada versus Brazil or any other country..each country has its charms, pros and cons..correct?

All I know of Toronto is it has been called one of the most multi-cultural cities on the planet and A friend living in Portugal has said the city has a large Portuguese community and the Brazilians who have come to Toronto have settled there and yes keeping their culture and traditions alive

I am not trying to play off Canada versus Brazil or any other country..each country has its charms, pros and cons..correct?

Right and thanks for confirming my view.But, it is nice to blend with the "natives" to understand their culture, regardless of which country you are visiting. Of course, the knowledge of English helps a lot .

Niagara is breathtaking, but Foz is wild especially after plenty of rains. Have you ever visited Foz ?

" ... and the Brazilians who have come to ..." X " ... have settled there ..." - true enough. Some do go back to Brazil. Most send at least a little something back to their families when they can.

"..each country has its charms, pros and cons..correct?" That would be affirmative Jon. Charm abounds the world over. Brazil lets the pros have the run of the streets. The EUA continues to build more prisons, both publicly and privately, to incarcerate the cons.

The EUA continues to build more prisons, both publicly and privately, to incarcerate the cons.

That was a good one, Simpleton. Forrest would fully approve of your statement!

No matter what country..the inmates run the asylum!

Be strong Ana P.

My deepest condolences to you and your family. I lost my father and a good aunty few years ago and I truly share your pain.

Be strong Ana P, life must go on.......

You’ve asked me, and I’ve responded -- on a number of occasions -- if I thought withholding education was a good thing. I said no. Everyone should have access to education, indigenous groups too if they so wish. No one should withhold education. Somehow that translates to you as “Gringo wants to keep the ignorants stupid”. How you’ve come up with that, I’ll never know.

This is getting boring. If you had any reading skills you would know it by now.

First, In Brazil almost a 100% of the children are in school, so we don't have "millions without school". Second, education must be provided to all of them. Third, indians are no different. They can't choose what they don't know about. Your insistence in denying them education (the jungle is fine for them) is what tells that you want to keep them in ignorance.

What's education after all? It is about learning all the accumulated knowledge of humanity. This is their right! I don't wish for others what I wouldn't wish for myself, and if I were in their situation with some backwards tribe elder saying that we shouldn't receive education, I would like someone would tell them otherwise.

What kind of future these stone age societies could possibly have? Not even as an Indian society they are good. Other Indians (Aztecs, Mayans, Incas, etc) were far more advanced.

What do you propose should be done with groups who don’t want your education?

Some parents might not want education for their children, but then they would be arrested and their children be given what they need regardless. Similarly if parents deny food to their children or mistreat them, then it would be a case for justice to work.

This is how it works in any other country by the way.

What if these groups don’t think their culture is “DEAD” as you so ignorantly state?

If they weren't ignorant, they wouldn't think so. Try asking them what they are capable of producing instead? Ask them about science? Do they know what science is? Ask them about history, technology, etc? Then you would slowly show them that there's much they don't know about.

I’d LOVE you to try and visit the Kyapo and tell them that they live in the Stone Age, that their culture is dead, and that you think they are savages because they haven’t been given a great “Ole education”, in one of the worst educational systems on the planet.

What? Are their education the "great new education"? Hahaha. Gringo, how old are you? You sound like a teenager. Your arguments are too thin and too emotional. You have some delusional anti-civilization belief, of the kind that thinks that progress is "killing the planet" and that "stone age societies live in harmony with nature" and, therefore, are "beautiful", hahahaha. Some residual hippy thing that contains dreams of people living in peace in some sort of comune and working with nature for their own survival and sharing everything. Please stop. I want to vomit already.

Science is the only way possible for humanity, there's no way of going back to how people used live thousands of years ago. The biggest consumers in the world, the Americans, wouldn't exchange their Hummers for such a virtuous natural life anyway. Why should we? Get over with it. The only humane option would be to give those stone age people the education so they will stand a chance in this world.

OK you siwwy wabbit, I’ll try this one more time, but I really am growing tired of bickering with someone with such limited prospects for advancement.

First, In Brazil almost a 100% of the children are in school, so we don't have "millions without school".

As of 2003 and using YOUR government’s most recent stats there were 1.5 million children between the ages of 7 and 14 not in school. That is 1,500,000 . So yes, you have MILLIONS not in school. Deal with it. How much clearer does that need to be and how much more evidence do you need? In terms of percentages, read the INEP data and you’ll see that nowhere near 100% of Brazilian children attend school. Not even close.

Source
http://www.inep.gov.br/imprensa/artigos/exclusao_educacional.htm

Now, that was simple attendance. Quality is another issue and Brazil, year after year, claims close to top prize for the world’s worst public education. The PISA international rankings, testing children in education for math and comprehension (which explains heaps with you) shows that Brazil is among the world’s worst.

Source
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_...126388.stm

Now, the world has recognized Brazil’s educational shortcomings and even your president has pined in saying, and I am quoting verbatim here “Não temos educação de qualidade no Brasil. Estamos entre os piores do mundo” so why don´t YOU accept this?

Source for Lula´s quote:
http://oglobo.globo.com/pais/mat/2007/03/15/294939801.asp

So, we’ve just proven you know nothing about education or the sad state it is in, in Brazil. I’m sure that didn’t surprise anyone.

Third, indians are no different.

Yes, they are. I have given you the link to the Brazilian Constitution three times now that gives Indigenous groups the RIGHT TO BE DIFFERENT. Why do you keep ignoring the Constitution? The laws you use to prop up your lame arguments are based on the Constitution. You can’t have it both ways. Again, you’re a dumbass.

Your insistence in denying them education

Groan. [head hits desk with loud thunk in despair]. I’ve emphatically stated and repeated and REPEATED that I’d not deny anyone who wishes an education, whatever type it may be, or who they are. The fact you can’t comprehend that after it has been written a dozen or so times is proof perfect that you really are a product of the Brazilian educational system.

and if I were in their situation with some backwards tribe elder saying that we shouldn't receive education, I would like someone would tell them otherwise.

Relatively speaking, you are in that situation. Only 10 cities out of 5,500 in Brazil have a first world education (link below) and there are heaps of people in the “developed world” that think YOU, being a Brazilian in these condistions, live in a dead end culture too. One plagued with hedonism and savagery, violence and corruption and that your educational system is medieval at best, you think they are correct in their assessment of you? You see a*****e, everyone has opinions – just because I know folks who think Brazilians live in the stone ages and you think Indians are savage doesn’t necessarily make it so.

Source: 10 out of 5,500 municipalities 1st world
http://oglobo.globo.com/educacao/mat/2007/04/25/295514599.asp

What? Are their education the "great new education"? Hahaha. Gringo, how old are you? You sound like a teenager. Your arguments are too thin and too emotional.

In two lines of text, you’ve called me a teenager, laughed like a little girl, and then gone on to tell me my arguments are too emotional? Classic!

You have some delusional anti-civilization belief, of the kind that thinks that progress is "killing the planet" and that "stone age societies live in harmony with nature" and, therefore, are "beautiful", hahahaha.

Where are you getting this from? My only point is that crashing into Indian villages; kidnapping their kids because you think their “cultures are dead” and “indoctrinating” them with one of the world’s worst educational systems may not be one of the greatest ideas floating out there. Actually it is quite FASCIST. It was tired in Australia and ended with disastrous results. It would predictably end with even WORSE results in Brazil becasue as we know everything in Brazil ends in pizza. ANd as an added thought, there are a number of indiengous groups getting an education, but I bet this will raise your blood pressure to learn, they get it from NGOs. You know, those groups you consider this century´s NAzis? And worse than Terrorists?

As to the rest of your worthless rant, save it for your fascist friends at MSIa.

Canada.... be creative and find an alternative word to "classic" OK!

Way over used and abused, like Mate Leao!

Costa

Point taken.

Canadense forgot "classic..eh"?

As of 2003 and using YOUR government’s most recent stats there were 1.5 million children between the ages of 7 and 14 not in school.

Which according to the same text represents only 5,5% of people of that age. No, we don't have millions, we have one million. A situation is being solved for the last 15 years at least. And the stats for the past years were even worse, but that doesn't interest you, because that would show improvement and your intent is to diminish Brazil just for the sake of defending your own agenda.

Even if some schools have low quality education, low quality is still better than none. Only a sick mind would argue against children education.

Now, the world has recognized Brazil’s educational shortcomings and even your president has pined in saying, and I am quoting verbatim here “Não temos educação de qualidade no Brasil. Estamos entre os piores do mundo” so why don´t YOU accept this?

Because he is a politician, and when there are comparisons with other countries' educational systems only the Brazilian public system is used as a reference. Please do your homework first.

Yes, they are. I have given you the link to the Brazilian Constitution three times now that gives Indigenous groups the RIGHT TO BE DIFFERENT.

That's in the sense that they need to be managed in a special manner and not just thrown in a city to find a job and survive for themselves, especially because there might be diseases they don't have antibodies for. The contacts with Indians who live in isolation should be intermediated by those who understand them better.

Groan. [head hits desk with loud thunk in despair]. I’ve emphatically stated and repeated and REPEATED that I’d not deny anyone who wishes an education

And I have repeatedly writing the same thing over and over again just for you ignore it completely. There´s no choosing when it comes to education. They can't choose over something they don't know, if those children reached 18 years old and decided that don't want to pursue more knowledge then that would be ok, otherwise it is just like asking if children want chocolate, they will always answer the same thing because they don't know better, even if that causes them harm.

(continue)

Only 10 cities out of 5,500 in Brazil have a first world education (link below) and there are heaps of people in the “developed world” that think YOU, being a Brazilian in these condistions, live in a dead end culture too.

Brazil produces airplanes, scientific work and it is an industrial country whose economy is among the biggest of the world. Anybody that thinks that is just ignorant, an evidence of their poor educational systems.

No, it didn't work. Relativizing to situation by appealing by some kind of "higher ground" in the relationship of the so called "first world" and "third world" countries may work for the feeble minded rednecks (Americans or not) that use to come here, but it doesn't for someone who actually knows a bit of history and has travelled abroad and has seen firsthand the good and the bad in other societies. No, in no way Brazil such comparison is even possible.

just because I know folks who think Brazilians live in the stone ages and you think Indians are savage doesn’t necessarily make it so.

No wishful thinking could change the fact that Indians do live in the stone age (no writing system, hunter-gatherer lifestyle, technology on par with other stone age societies, etc). Eventually you might find some tribes with electricity and other tools from civilization, but that's due to their relationship with the rest of the society and not something they came up with and could be attributed to their lifestyle.

My only point is that crashing into Indian villages; kidnapping their kids because you think their “cultures are dead” and “indoctrinating” them with one of the world’s worst educational systems may not be one of the greatest ideas floating out there.

There, appealing to the emotion of the reader, making up things that were never said just to make everything look like non-sense. If you call "going to school" kidnapping and "education" indroctrinating, then that would be correct, but it would only show how sick you are.

There's no arguing against education, especially children education. This would be like showing them that there's a world outside, instigating them to question things and achieve more. The only way of interacting with the world is through knowledge and even if all you want is to stay home drinking beer, you still need to know the basics at least to know what your options are.

The current situation of the Indians is terrible. They are an easy target for all kinds of people trying to cheat them: scientists, loggers, farmers, etc. If they don't know how the world works how can they even fight for their own interests?

Dumbness has limits, you have issues. Your obsession so far with keeping Indians in ignorance, aluding to some "right to be ignorant" in this time and age, is just beyond the reasonable. I guess it's important to you to believe that others can be happy even with less than you, maybe because you didn't show much interest in being successful in life and seeing supposedly "lesser" people aiming higher than you might make you small in comparison.

Which according to the same text represents only 5,5% of people of that age. No, we don't have millions, we have one million.

It’s a million and a half and to say millions is totally justified (I reckon the government’s numbers are padded too, or don’t tell the WHOLE story), now if you include children from 5-6 like most developed worlds would (hey we need to treat everyone like equals, eh), then that figure would shoot through the roof. But without manipulating the data or questioning the methodology look what was said in the report:

“O fato é que esse número é alto, mesmo levando em consideração o tamanho da população brasileira. Países semelhantes ao Brasil em termos de desenvolvimento e produção de riquezas apresentam números bem mais baixos.”

You want to DEFEND the piss poor state of education in Brazil? Be my guest. It doesn’t surprise me at all. You seem to enjoy defending the indefensible.

And the stats for the past years were even worse, but that doesn't interest you, because that would show improvement and your intent is to diminish Brazil just for the sake of defending your own agenda.

No, I was proving how piss poor the situation IS (present tense) using your government’s stats and your President’s own words because you somehow you pulled the idea out of your ass that education in Brazil is just fine and almost everyone is educated or given an education. I brought up SOURCES that disputed both your points.

And. it’s not difficult to marginally improve anything when your starting point in reality is so horrifically and criminally low. You’re the one who doesn’t wish to see the fact that education in Brazil has serious problems and because of your head in the sand mentality you don’t care if it gets better. Which is ironic given you seem to feel that education is the be all and end all for indigenous groups but you don’t treat the issue that seriously or equally when Brazilians are involved. Interesting. Actually, not really, we know where you are coming from.

Because he is a politician, and when there are comparisons with other countries' educational systems only the Brazilian public system is used as a reference. Please do your homework first.

You care to explain this above statement? It makes NO SENSE AT ALL. How about a link or sumfin to clarify your thoughts next time, OK sunshine?

That's in the sense that they need to be managed in a special manner and not just thrown in a city to find a job and survive for themselves, especially because there might be diseases they don't have antibodies for. The contacts with Indians who live in isolation should be intermediated by those who understand them better.

HOLD THE PHONES. You were advocating that their parents be thrown in jail if they didn’t educate their children because we all need to be treated equally, and the LAW is the LAW, now you claim there are special considerations?

Well, you friking idiot; there are a multitude of issues and considerations that need intermediation with Indian groups and those who understand them better. The “Brazilian Constitution” article 231 gives them the right to be different becasue their circumstances are unique, and you’ve just unwittingly acknowledged that. Thanks!

And I have repeatedly writing the same thing over and over again just for you ignore it completely. There´s no choosing when it comes to education. They can't choose over something they don't know

For starters, I highly doubt in any Indian village that children are “denied” education. They might not get the education you think is needed, but this goes back to the point of everything being relative. I personally think your education is sorely and seriously lacking too, but I digress.

They are educated to survive given their environments and culture and do quite well and have done well for millennia. And contrary to what you have repeatedly written, many groups do have written languages and do have math. Your blanket generalizations do little to forward your arguments and everything to highlight your ignorance.

From the start your stance has been that our Brazilan education should be FORCED on indigenous groups because they know no better and they have “dead end cultures”. So, your idea really, is not necessarily to educate them -- although it is a means to your end -- but to rid them of their “dead end culture”. The “Final Solution” so to speak, but painted up under the auspicious of altruism. You are a little fascist. But thankfully, a really REALLY dumb one, so of little danger to anyone but yourself.

Brazil produces airplanes, scientific work and it is an industrial country whose economy is among the biggest of the world. Anybody that thinks that is just ignorant, an evidence of their poor educational systems.

My point stands. It is all relative. You talk with indigenous groups and they’ll lay claim that they posses myriad abilities that YOU and your compatriots don’t and to dismiss them as ignorant only shows YOUR ignorance and your unwillingness to even try and understand them. As well, a Nation that has such a staggering level of poverty, corruption and violence should not be held up as an example of what building airplanes and exploiting resources can bring.

If it’s solely a matter of language and writing then go talk with the Yanonami or Kayapo. Both posses written languages both have incredibly complex civil societies, both groups have people educated OUTSIDE of their villages (which is their right should they choose) and both groups fight physically and at times politically to maintain their soveirgnty, land and culture in tack. Again, if you knew anything about indigenous groups at all you may wish to ask them what it is they wish for themselves. They are not as sheltered and cut off as you seem to think, and they are certainly NOT as ignorant as you claim them to be.

If you call "going to school" kidnapping and "education" indroctrinating, then that would be correct, but it would only show how sick you are.

When you advocate putting their Indian parents in jail and removing the children from the village against their wishes; ignore what their parents wish to teach them in order to survive in their culture, and ignore the Brazilian Constitution, what else can it be called but kidnapping and indoctrination? What you are proposing is criminal.

There's no arguing against education, especially children education.

Who is arguing against education? Again, we know given the Pisa rankings that comprehension isn’t one of Brazil’s strong points but you need not go out of your way to provide the anecdotal.

This would be like showing them that there's a world outside, instigating them to question things and achieve more.

Oh stop with being so pompous and condescending. They know there is a world outside. What planet are you from? The Enawe Nawe know there is a world outside, the Kayapo know there is a world outside, the Yanonami know there is a world outside, the Waimiri Atroari know there is a world outside and most participate actively within it – and I’m sure none of these groups would consider themselves at a “dead end” and would fight tooth and nail (as they’ve done) to preserve their way of life from rabid ignorant self righteous mind numbingly thick-headed and retarded fools like you.

You really need to learn more about your own country.It must have you spinning in bed at night knowing there is a gringo who has infinitely more knowledge about Brazil then yourself.

They are an easy target for all kinds of people trying to cheat them: scientists, loggers, farmers, etc.

In some areas, I agree, that’s why they need their land rights guaranteed. And I reckon the loggers, miners and farmers are a far worse threat to them then scientists. Still, their lands need protection, and given the rampant rate of illegal activities in the northern regions, the Brazilian government must step up to and take some responsibility for protecting not only Native groups, but Ribeirinhos, Poseiros and any LAW abiding Brazilian citizen too.

If they don't know how the world works how can they even fight for their own interests?

Have you ever thought that many do know how the world works and want as little to do with it as possible?

Dumbness has limits

Yours doesn’t!

You have issues.

What would THEY be?

Your obsession so far with keeping Indians in ignorance, aluding to some "right to be ignorant" in this time and age, is just beyond the reasonable.

For starters, I don’t consider them ignorant so how can I advocate keeping them in a state they are not? YOU think they are ignorant. Not me. And I keep highlighting the Brazilian Constitution’s article 231 the “right to be different” (not the right to be ignorant as you have mocked) because for all its failings I respect the Constitution of this Nation and the ambitiousness of goals. Sorry if you think your nation’s Constitution is something to make a mockery of.

I guess it's important to you to believe that others can be happy even with less than you, maybe because you didn't show much interest in being successful in life and seeing supposedly "lesser" people aiming higher than you might make you small in comparison.

Ya, I don’t know where you are going with this, but I refuse to get involved in the my bank account is bigger than your bank account child like antics such as GTY engaged in (who was proven to be a liar). I could be sitting on millions, retired and earning more given patents I’ve filed, or maybe I’m some stoned hippy selling arts on the corner to make ends meet, what do either have to do with me kicking your sorry ass all over this forum?

No, I was proving how piss poor the situation IS (present tense) using your government’s stats and your President’s own words because you somehow you pulled the idea out of your ass that education in Brazil is just fine and almost everyone is educated or given an education.

Gringo, this is dishonesty. You are carefully selecting the data in order to make it look like something it is not. If you pick the data from the last years you will see a steady improvement. But you chose not to see it because it serves your purposes more just to bash Brazil over isolated pieces.

As for the numbers themselves, if 5,5% are out of school then it means that 94,5% are in the school, and that's the vast majority. Even if some public schools don't have that much quality, low quality education is still better than no education at all.

You lost the argument. Give up.

You care to explain this above statement?

The statistics gathered about Brazilian education, that are used in such reports of education quality worldwide, don't include private insititutions. If it did then Brazil would be considerably higher in the list. Some other countries, if I am not mistaken France, compute statistics for both types of education, public and private.

Do your homework.

You were advocating that their parents be thrown in jail if they didn’t educate their children because we all need to be treated equally, and the LAW is the LAW, now you claim there are special considerations?

That doesn't contradict the fact that should go to jail for not allowing their children to receive education.

My point stands. It is all relative.

No, it doesn't. Your point falls apart like everything else you have stated so far. Your comparison of other countries and Brazil and Brazil and Indians has a crucial difference. The first is solely based on ignorance, they didn't study as much as they should so they don't know we build airplanes, and the second is a fact, those tribes do live in the stone age.

Both posses written languages both have incredibly complex civil societies

No, they don't. They don't possess any science or written language.

When you advocate putting their Indian parents in jail and removing the children from the village against their wishes; ignore what their parents wish to teach them in order to survive in their culture, and ignore the Brazilian Constitution, what else can it be called but kidnapping and indoctrination? What you are proposing is criminal.

Jesus Christ, since when teaching kids about chemistry, geography and history is "indoctrinating"? Since when learning about the world implies "ignoring what their parents wish to teach them"? They can teach any crap they want, but the child has the right to have a choice in life. And only education will allow them to have a choice.

You are the only criminal here.

You really need to learn more about your own country.It must have you spinning in bed at night knowing there is a gringo who has infinitely more knowledge about Brazil then yourself.

You have low-esteem, don't you?

And I reckon the loggers, miners and farmers are a far worse threat to them then scientists.

Recently there was a case of blood samples being extracted and sold on the internet by international scientists. The tribesmen were complaining that when they met those scientists they didn't know what it meant. Look it up on Google.

Have you ever thought that many do know how the world works and want as little to do with it as possible?

They may have chosen so, out of ignorance or not, but their children must be able to choose by themselves if they want to pursue knowledge or not.

Imagine some parents in Canada that impose to their kids that they must be lawyers and only lawyers. Would this be reasonable? And what would happen if one kid decided to be an engineer? Or not going to college at all because he thinks he can make a living without it? What the parents want not necessarily is what the kids want, and in the case of Indians they need to know what their options are.

For starters, I don’t consider them ignorant so how can I advocate keeping them in a state they are not? YOU think they are ignorant.

Anybody living without access to formal education is ignorant.

It looks like you are getting “whipped like butter” once again by a Brazilian!

CLASSIC… Hehehe

Costinha

Gringo, this is dishonesty. You are carefully selecting the data in order to make it look like something it is not.

I’ve done no such thing other than prove my point using your government’s data. Live with it. There are 1.5 million Brazilian children (between the ages of 7-15) out of school, and whether via percentages or in hard numbers that is one of the worst records in the world, and THE worst for the Americas. How is that cheery picking? If it were between the ages of 5-15 like most developed nations, that number would be absurd.

Even if some public schools don't have that much quality, low quality education is still better than no education at all.

SOME? You said SOME? Again, your ignorance regarding education in your nation is frightening. Here’s a link that says only 10 municipalities out of 5,500 in Brazil have anything that can be even be remotely considered first world curriculums. That’s 10 out of 5,500 and you consider that SOME public schools don’t have much quality? OK, whatever jerks your chain.

You lost the argument. Give up.

No, you’ve lost your mind.

The statistics gathered about Brazilian education, that are used in such reports of education quality worldwide, don't include private insititutions. If it did then Brazil would be considerably higher in the list.

BULLs**t. Everyone would move up accordingly. You think only Brazil has private education? You’re an idiot. Canada has public and private, but look where their public students score. Stop being a sniveling little coward and own up to the problems and admit they exist. You’re just making yourself look ridiculous.

Some other countries, if I am not mistaken France, compute statistics for both types of education, public and private.

Yes, you are in fact mistaken, but let’s not let facts get in the way of a good “ole” Nationalistic hissy-fit, eh? Well, just to soothe your bruised ego Pisa is an internationally standardised assessment of education, math and sciences – their methodology is the same for all. But nice try.

Your point falls apart like everything else you have stated so far. Your comparison of other countries and Brazil and Brazil and Indians has a crucial difference.

Not at all. It’s all perception. You just don’t like the idea of other nations looking down on you as you do the Natives. You’re right, its bigoted but then again, so are you.

The first is solely based on ignorance, they didn't study as much as they should so they don't know we build airplanes, and the second is a fact, those tribes do live in the stone age.

The Kayapo HAVE airplanes, so how can you sit there and say they don’t know that Brazil builds airplanes? And how is THAT living in the Stone Age? Do you even know what the stone age was?

No, they don't. They don't possess any science or written language.

They certainly posses written language.
Kayapo: http://www.ethnologue.com/show...p?code=txu
Waimiri: http://www.socioambiental.org/.../lang.shtm
and the language of Tupi Guarani (found in a number of places in Brazil) is one of the official languages of Paraguay. Strange how you can adopt a language that has no written form, né? As well, here’s a semi-complete list of all the indigenous groups of Brazil.

Since when learning about the world implies "ignoring what their parents wish to teach them"?

When you put their parents in jail maybe, like you are proposing? When you ignore what is written in the Constitution and do what YOU think they have to have? I dunno, I’m trying to think outside of the box here, but usually kidnapping involves TAKING a child without parental consent?

You have low-esteem, don't you?

Where did this come from Freud? Oh ya,. You’ve used it with CT and with BO in the past too. Everyone has low-esteem, right? No worries, you can insinuate anything you like. You’ve proven yourself thicker than the walls of a vault and you posses the analytical skills of a Bob’s hamburger employee.

Recently there was a case of blood samples being extracted and sold on the internet by international scientists.

Ya, that was JUST as bad as the Haximu Massacre right? Or dropping dynamite on the Cintas Largas? Nice try.

They may have chosen so, out of ignorance or not, but their children must be able to choose by themselves if they want to pursue knowledge or not.

By George I think we are getting somewhere. Did you actually say they have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE? Well that certainly took a while.Thanks for the concession! Next time throw an "I´m sorry, you are right" in there. Mk?

Anybody living without access to formal education is ignorant.

Sadly, there is some living with access to formal education and they are BEYOUND ignorant!

It looks like you lost this time (again!). Your argument is not very convincing, your data is questionable and your rep**ation is dirt.

Gringão, you're like a Rocky movie that ends in the first 3 seconds with you out cold, face slobber-kissing the blood-and-urine-soaked canvas, ass stuck up in the air waiting for me stick the winner's umbrella in there and open it for the last thrill of your fag life, you mismatched armless Pygmy.

If I was in your shoes, I’d stay warm in that Canadian wilderness cabin because it’s freezing out there, get an old copy of Playboy magazine and make love to any miss of your liking.

I must now proclaim… a Brazilian as the winner,

CLASSIC… Hehehe

Costinha

Ya well, Costinha. What a surprise. Given you were cultured in the same educational environment (cough cough) as Abe, I’m not shocked at all that that’s how’d you read it.

As for:

face slobber-kissing the blood-and-urine-soaked canvas, ass stuck up in the air waiting for me stick the winner's umbrella in there and open it for the last thrill of your fag life

Your civil words should be on Brazilian Tourism brochures, Costinha, with the headline:

Visit Brazil where our Brazilian charm and hospitality awaits you!

I bet you are the one with the BIG ears..... Hehehehe

I love man

Costa

I forgot.... Who's your daddy?

hahahaha

Costa

I’ve done no such thing other than prove my point using your government’s data. Live with it.

Cherry picking data proves nothing except your own intentions.

BULLs**t. Everyone would move up accordingly. You think only Brazil has private education?

What I said is that unlike other countries Brazil compiles information only about the public institutions and not about the private ones. Look it up before you make a fool of yourself yet again.

Not at all. It’s all perception. You just don’t like the idea of other nations looking down on you as you do the Natives. You’re right, its bigoted but then again, so are you.

Actually, I don't give a s**t. It doesn't pay my bills. But your example was flawed because Brazil's capabilities are well known and documented and if some foreigners don't know it then it is not our problem. In the case of the Indians is a completely different matter because it is well documented that their societies are primitive.

The Kayapo HAVE airplanes, so how can you sit there and say they don’t know that Brazil builds airplanes? And how is THAT living in the Stone Age? Do you even know what the stone age was?

If they do, then they could only have gotten those due to their interaction with our society.

They certainly posses written language.

What happens in the case of Tupi-Guarani and Kayapó is that they use the latin alphabet to write their words. There's an effort for certain indigenous languages in several countries to formalize their grammar in order to enable teaching in schools. But that's recent and usually due to researchers foreign to those cultures, or by the Indian themselves after seeing the value of education.

By George I think we are getting somewhere. Did you actually say they have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE?

I have been writing the same thing over and over again, but you have reading difficulties. The children must go to school and then choose, but THEY MUST GO TO SCHOOL. You said that their parents could choose not to send them to school, and I said you are sick for thinking that way. THEY CAN'T DO THAT.

If after having at least the high school complete they choose to go back to the jungle, so be it. But what matters is that they did have formal education.

Cherry picking data proves nothing except your own intentions.

For starters, what are my intentions? You have MORE conspiracies? Great, this should be good! Tell your mates at MSIa to give it a rest already.

Second, I’ve not cherry picked anything and you’ve not provided a single piece of data to disprove or refute that Brazil’s educational system has serious problems. Yours and Costinha’s glaring ignorance here also highlights what this Nation’s President has echoed: “Brazil has one of the worst educational systems in the world”. It has nothing to do with cherry picking or selective reasoning, it’s all based on national and international findings and I’ve provided the links to rep**able sources. You’ve not provided anything but nationalistic hyperbole and subterfuge. What a surprise.

What I said is that unlike other countries Brazil compiles information only about the public institutions and not about the private ones. Look it up before you make a fool of yourself yet again.

You’re a worse liar than GTY. The PISA test results are NOT “compiled” by nations; it’s a “standardized test” given to a cross section of students under rigorous methodological standards agreed upon by the participating nations. In other words, an equal playing field.

http://www.oecd.org/document/29/0,3343,en_32252351_32235918_33641501_1_1_1_1,00.html

As usual, you think your opinions are fact. But let’s not let a pretty lie (it’s an international conspiracy against Brazil I tell you) get in the way of the ugly truth (maybe there is need for some improvement in Brazil’s educational system?), OK Abe?

But your example was flawed because Brazil's capabilities are well known and documented and if some foreigners don't know it then it is not our problem. In the case of the Indians is a completely different matter because it is well documented that their societies are primitive.

Brazil’s capabilities for violence and penchant for savagery IS well known all over the world (and highlighted here by Costa’s ravings about wishing an umbrella up my ass), and sure there are aircraft designers (whom were probably taught abroad) but little is known about THEM in comparison with the nations rep**ation for death and drugs– sorry if the truth hurts. That said, most folks don’t even know what language is spoken in Brazil just like you didn’t know about the Indians written language or that many tribes interact daily with the societies around them. You’re just as ignorant as those around the world you chastise.

If they do, then they could only have gotten those due to their interaction with our society.

Another concession! So why have you repeatedly stated they live “in a dead end culture” and in the “Stone Age” then? I’ve gone on at lengths to tell you they are NOT the little “ignorants” you claim them to be, nor are they as “sheltered” and cut off. Having aircraft, a written language, a complex civil society (tribal hierarchies and laws) while interacting and participating in the world around them is a far stretch from living a “stone age” lifestyle as you claim. A claim BTW which is not only academically laughable but pretty damn stupid, too.

What happens in the case of Tupi-Guarani and Kayapó is that they use the latin alphabet to write their words.

The point wasn’t WHERE their language developed from. You said, and I quote: “They have no written language” Which is verifiably false. A lie!

I have been writing the same thing over and over again, but you have reading difficulties.

Abe, you’ve not written anything resembling an argument since the day you arrived on this blog. From your rabid venomous ramblings that “NGOs are this century’s Nazis”, to “there is no racism in Brazil” to “there are SOME that wish the ignorants to stay stupid to reap first world wealth”, to damn the Constitution, Indians should be jailed if their children aren’t at school you’ve done little but unwittingly prop up the very real stereotype that Brazilians, for the most part, are not very sensible, overly emotional and known to violently lash out when opposed. Your argumentation is vague bordering on gibberish, your ideation is based principally on your prejudices (calling that which you do not know “a dead end culture” is about the biggest admission of bigotry I’ve yet seen on these boards) your generalizations are wide-sweeping, you´ve not posted a single source to support any of your lame-duck conspiracies and you prattle on ad nausea doing little but waste the time of others in this forum in an attempt to side track or ward off other pertinent and unpleasant discussions about Brasil. Maybe that is your goal: simple denial and subterfuge. [shrug]

Remember, this all started when you refused to answer this nonsensical paranoid GEM:

“Some believe that there aren't enough resources for sustaining a 1st world lifestyle for everybody, so they urge others to "protect" the ignorants from knowledge.”

I asked who the SOME where and the OTHERS. Weeks later, you’ve not even made an attempt.

The only thing you have repeated is your ignorant views that "ALL indigenous groups are ignorant"; they all have “dead end cultures”, "live in the STONE AGES", and that contrary to the Brazilian Constitution article 231, the Brazilian police should still enter their villages arrest the parents and force the children into the Brazilian educational system to rid them of their savage lifestyles. Beauty, eh!

Ironically, Australia today is apologizing to its indigenous populations for forcibly removing native children from their parents and placing them in Australian schools, to BREED out their “savage and dead cultures” decades ago. And even with the painful lessons learned from this well documented and brutal mommet in history, there are fascist minds still here (Abe) proposing the same be tried again in the 21 century. Simply amazing.

From the BBC
Mr Rudd said he apologised "especially" to the Stolen Generations of young Aboriginal children who were taken from their parents in a policy of assimilation which lasted from the 19th Century to the late 1960s.

SOURCE
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7241965.stm

Frak, let me pine in on your behalf, ok?

Costinha writes:

Piss, s**t, dick in your ass, Gringao!!!!!!!!!! Canadian Bacon, Abe wins, you suck
gasp, crackle, pop…. Pppppppttttttttttttttttttt. Love me I´m BRazlian!!!!!

Gringo(norreah) is going from ugly to insanity. Your conversation is a run-on sentence that never ends!

Is your speech over, or can I finish my nap? You must have a black belt in mouth. Your incoherent babbling has reached its zenith.

Gringo(norreah), you're certainly thoughtless. I wish you were speechless, too.

Yours truly,

Costinha

wow guys, I think you are getting lost in your efforts to belittle each other and forgetting some basic common sense. There is no arguing that gringo is a little hasty in some of his judgements, but Abe and Costinha you guys are really being silly.

I've lived in Brazil for half of my life and am happily married to a lovely brazilian woman and have two duo nationality children. I'm not going to get into quotes and sources because they are easily manipulated, often are not accurate anyway as they are published by governments with a vested interest in the outcome and yes, cherry picking is possible. But let's consider a few things that common sense and observation teach us...

at any stoplight or corner in a metropolitan area in brazil there are children begging, doing acrobatics and tossing balls for spare change. how many are doing this in Sao Paulo on a daily basis? That's discounting the masses of children that are being used as forced labor at farms and other ventures in the interior. Nationalistic pride aside, Is there seriously any denying that this is a serious issue? If anything I'm inclined to believe that the 1.5 million out of school is drastically understated, primarily because many children in some parts of the nordeste are likely not even in the census. I'm not a staunch defender of the USA, that's why I choose to live in Brazil, but you don't see this stoplight circus in most other industrialized nations.

As for the ones who are in public school, even when the teachers are not on strike the education is simply subpar. Lula did not admit this because he is a politician, he admitted it because it's true and can no longer be ignored. Too many NGOs, press agencies and other organizations have shed light on the issue forcing the government to admit that it's not working.

Does the Brazilian government spend enough on education? I think the answer to that is no, and I think you would agree with me. The American public school system is not great either and fortunately I never had to depend on it for my education, but there is quite obviously a more direct and functional pipeline from American high schools into universities than there is in Brazil.

I love Brazil and I will probably retire and die here, but I do feel that we need to be honest with ourselves on this issue. Let's not get sidetracked with emotions, foul language and derogatory comments. The issue is too important for that.

There are many indicators that can be used to determine quality of education besides just attendance % and I think we are overlooking some important ones. Graduation rate, university attendance rate among segundo grau graduates, standardized test scores, etc... Another factor that is "softer" but I still feel is important is parent and community involvement in schools and school functions. Sometimes I feel that school has not become a family "institution" in brazil as it has in other countries.

My only intention here is to move this discussion into a more productive setting so that it gets the attention and solutions it drastically needs. it is easy for us to do that in this forum, but apparently not so easy for government to get serious about education and that is the sad part.

Jeremy (porto alegre)

There is no arguing that gringo is a little hasty in some of his judgements, but Abe and Costinha you guys are really being silly.

I would like to protest against your criticizing my buddies "El Gringo", "Abe" and "Costinha" who in my opinion are very bright (though highly opinionated and absolutely uncontrollable). None of them is silly. So stop picking on them.

Nevertheless, after reading your long winded comments, I came to the solemn conclusion that you might be right in certain aspects.

We are awaiting your further comments to enhance our knowledge

Petrobras will have to break through 8 billion tonnes of salt first.....