Brazzil

I wonder why an Australian is trying to wash our dirty laundry here.

Anyway, you said: “According to the IBGE (Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics), around 600,000 people were killed in Brazil between 1980 and 2000, an average of 30,000 a year.

For purposes of comparison, the thirty-year civil war that devastated Angola killed 350,000 people, nearly half of that. This means that the number of deaths by killing in Brazil easily falls within the U.N. parameters designating a civil war.”

The way you wrote this information it looks very bad for Brazil.

But that is not a good comparison.

You have to put the information in some kind of perspective.

The total population of Angola during the thirty-year civil war was in the range of 8 million to 9 million people.

The total population of Brazil between 1980 and 2000 went from 170 million to 190 million people.

When you consider that 350,000 people were killed out of a population of 8 million people – that is a lot worse than losing 600,000 people out of an average population of 180 million people.

In Angola they killed 43,750 people per million of population.

In Brazil they killed 3,333 people per million of population.

You presented your information in a way for Brazil to look a lot worse than the reality.

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YOU put it in the wrong perspective, reality being :
- Brazil has the World Second Highest Crime Rate per 100'000 capita....after South Africa ! sorry for you....junkie !
- Brazil has a crime rate 28 TIMES HIGHER than U.K....per 100'000 capita. Sorry for you junkie !
- Brazil has a crime rate 6,5 TIMES HIGHER than USA....per 1000'000 capita. sorry for you junkie !
Therefore quite laughable to read from time to time to read articles/comments here or elsewhere from Brazil, that the USA is a violent country when in fact they are angels.....when compared to Brazil !

Brazilians always have an ectasy when they can put a foreigner in jail for sexual children abuse....but provide total impunity to Brazilians
responsible for 99 % of children sex abuses.
Most of your cities provides brothels where minors are offered.

And Bin Lula should better swallow his pride on poverty reduction...knowing that there are 7 millions street children, hundreds of deaths squads killing these children....with total impunity of course and as usual.

Lets face it even when Brazil send their army....it is not enough to reduce the crime rate.

Ohhh and what is not clearly said is that in some favelas it is not drug lords who control the area, but the Official Corrupted Police Forces who are the lords.....by extorting money and controlling all illegal activities !

Conclusion : Brazil is much worse than most African countries. Brazil is a medieval, archaïc, backward and back yard country.
Sadly you prove it....DAILY !
And you continue to cheat, hide and lie by presenting the country....better than the reality !

Finally, it is not by giving 2 % (Bolsa Familia) of the federal budget to the 25 % poorest citizens, and well over 25 % % of the budget to 1 % of the population (Government employees salary, perks and pensions benefits) that things are going to improve even in the long term !
Stats which are overall reflected knowing that Brazil has one of the World Highest Wealth and Social inequality !

Your critics on the "Australian" author of the article....just reflect your total ignorance, and prove once more how junkie you are like most Brazilians are.
Reality being that the author of the article is a.....BRAZILIAN LAW PROFESSOR !!!! Sorry for you....IDIOT RICARDO !

No doubt.....you are RED FACED !!!!!

Augusto Zimmermann is indeed a Brazilian legal scholar who got his basic law degree in PUC at Rio and taught in some universities here before moving to Australia to obtain his Ph.D and become a professor there.

I would like to congratulate him for publishing this excellent article which dispassionately describes the current state of our three powers. He is speaking for millions of educated and hard working middle class Brazilians and my salutes to him. I gave a chuckle when he wrote:

Since the 1980s, many judges have coalesced around the idea of "alternative law," arguing that the courts should cater to the expectations of the "marginalised" and "oppressed," by resisting what they regard as "wooden and violent generalities of the state law."

He is absolutely right. However, he forgot (or omitted ) to mention about the "Justiça do Trabalho" which zealously defends the "oppressed trabalhadores" at the cost of small and middle sized businesses.

As for my friend Ricardo´s comment:

The way you wrote this information it looks very bad for Brazil.

Ricardo, I don't think Augusto wrote it to tarnish our image.If you read the paragraph on foreign investments, he was making a point. Your last article dealt as how Brazil can grow with foreign investments and he has merely come out with some interesting factors that are impeding a larger flow into the country.

The Red Command are a street gang - not a crime organization. Rio's murders have also been decreasing considerably in the last five years, withstanding a probable spike in 2007.

Angola is, of course, far smaller than Brazil and I heard the African country's death toll was more in the region of a million. As if it's accurately recorded anyway. And the authorities can take a Rio favela whenever they feel like it. There is no 'state within a state'. Atrocious article.

Well Gerry, I do not agree with you. Favelas here really are states with in states, managed by gang leaders. And the authorities cannot "take a Rio favela whenever they feel like it", because taking for example Rocinha would take millions of dollars to finance (which Rio and the state of Rio do not have, nor is there a political will do invade Rocinha).

Also, response to Amaral - you are right with your argument about relative population sizes. However, the security situation is so bad in Brazil it can't even be described. Have you ever lived for an extended period of time in any European country? It seems that you haven't, because otherwise you would know what I am talking about and what is a REAL security. The security in Brazil is awful, awful, awful.

Jakob, the authorities can take a favela as and when they feel like it. This has been proven time and time again. A state within a state is something more like the demilitarised zone used by the FARC in Colombia a few years back. But even then, against a group that is highly organized (unlike the Red Command), the authorities retook it easily when they decided too.

Of course the politicos solution is to sterilize the favelas and "bingo" no crime!!!!!

I find the article very interesting and damning as one who travels to Brazil often and is married to a Brazilian national. One Brazilian posts that this is a great article, while several insult abd attack the author but can not dispute the facts, very typical Brazilian reaction to the truth. Here is another line from the story:

"More people die every year in that city as victims of violence than did all American soldiers during the Vietnam War. "

That is truely a remarkable and profound statement and if indeed accurate, it should put into perspective the problems all Brazilians face. The Brazilian unfounded Nationalistic pride as well as her desire to hide her head in the sand will ensure that tens thousands of Brazilians will continue to lose their lives to violence, most of them children and young men, with no real end or solution in site. This in addition to malnutrition and sickness.

The Brazilian elite and the government have created an inept and cowardly law enforcement activity and the Brazilian military is equally unable to wipe there own asses, yet help stop the problem by actually winning a battle with drug lords and criminals, in fact many of Brazil's law enforcement officals, if not the majority, are in their pockets. Are you all proud of that? They are outmanned and out gunned, poorly trained and equiped, with no real motivation to put their lives on the line for their country.

I also find it amusing that so many Brazilian point to US foriegn policy and use it in their anti-American rants, again, this just a cover so that they do not have to face their own problems. The numbers of you killed by criminals that have no fear of your police or military far out numbers the current loss of life in Iraq, yet, as crazy as it may sound you can all hide in your locked down apartements or travel in your bullet proof cars and pretend that Brazil is the greatest country in the world. As long as you have samba and futbal, cheap beer and meat, you will all continue to die at the hands of thieves and assasins, because you all have the ability to convince yourselves that it won't happen to you, what a place you have built for the future of your young people, who by the way are fleeing at the first opportunity.

They are outmanned and out gunned, poorly trained and equiped, with no real motivation to put their lives on the line for their country.

Why should they put "their lives on the line for their country", when they do not have any guarantee that they would not be persecuted by Italian and Spanish judges in 10 years time for "violating the human rights" while performing their duties?

Great point Joao? So what is the answer, to keep defending the status quo? Fear doing anything? Glad its your problem and not mine.

There are citizens in Brazil trying to basically shock the population and politicians to the level of violence in Rio but coincidentally or ironically enough the website riobodycount.com.br has disappeared

Great point Joao? So what is the answer, to keep defending the status quo? Fear doing anything?

Nope. I hate to defend the status quo. It does not take us anywhere. I do think that we do lack good leadership and Zimmermann´s article has jolted us into reality and confirms my view and I hate to say that I have to agree with Ch.c. Unless we stop , reflect and get used to constructive criticisms, we are going to be just like Mexico (or Cuba). Brazil is a great country, but how the hell do you expect it to get better with these idiots in power?

We need people like Zimmermann and Ricardo to propose plans, analyze the alternatives and come out with solutions.

btw, we have to get rid of the Xenophobia that took over our country during the past 15 years. Brazil was always a hospitable country and I don't know what is happening lately.

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Reply to Ch.c

We all know that you are just a “MORON.”


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Reply to all

I just wanted to clarify the information regarding Angola since I had practical experience with the Angolans during various years. You can read about it at:

June 2003 – “Brazil and the Angolan Connection”

http://www.brazzillog.com/2003...3jun03.htm


It is easy to write an article taking apart just about any country around the world. The hard part is write article suggesting solutions for the problems.

Brazil is a very complex country and there are many reasons why we have a major problem with crime today.

Basically we can write a book about that subject, including the influence of the Catholic Church, choices that Brazilians made in the past that resulted on today’s conditions, the fact that Brazil is an open society, and criminals can abuse this type of system, lack of investment on education, and I could go on, and on with all kinds of ramifications of why we have the current state of affairs.

I have written various articles on this subject, but I never sent them for publication, because the solutions involve very hard choices that I know Brazilians are not ready to make it.

Basically, I don’t like to talk about this subject, because that is a choice made by the Brazilian people. If we had a ruthless dictator killing thousands of people then we should feel sorry for the people of that country – but that is not the case in Brazil.

Brazilians are free to vote and choose the leaders that they want – and if these leaders let the country engulf itself into such a level of insecurity and almost chaos – please don’t be a bunch of cry-babies you have the kind of government that you elected to office.

You have the power of the vote, and you just have yourself to blame for the current state of affairs.

People are not ignorant only in Brazil just look what we have here in the United States.
The Supreme Court elected George W. Bush in 2000, but after one of the most incompetent jobs in US history, 59 million Americans voted the Jackass for a second term. And the average American is supposed to have a better education than the average Brazilian.

Basically, there is no simple answer for the problem.

But regarding Brazil I can give you some clues about the roots of the problem – just read the following article that I wrote in 2000:

July 2000 – “Overpopulated”

http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/6963/73/


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Reply to GTY

"More people die every year in that city as victims of violence than did all American soldiers during the Vietnam War. "

That is truly a remarkable and profound statement and if indeed accurate, it should put into perspective the problems all Brazilians face.


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Ricardo: Let me give you the complete information on that subject.

The official death count of the Vietnam War (1964 – 1975) is 59,000 deaths.

But the American mainstream media very rarely mentions to the American people and to the rest of the world that since the Vietnam War ended in 1975

The impact of war on American soldiers and their families are much greater than the American mainstream media ever mentioned to the American people, and Vietnam is a major example of that failure of information.

If the American people had a better understanding of the implications of sending people to war – the American people would not be so casual about sending their kids to war.

But the biggest impact of that war was the loss of life. The US lost 59,000 soldiers during the war, and that tragedy continues in the US in 2008. Since the Vietnam War ended in 1975, more than 30 years ago; over 150,000 US Vietnam veterans committed suicide, for a total casualty number of over 210,000 deaths so far – deaths related to that war. Never mind the large number of people who were injured in that war, and the impact that had in the breakdown of thousands of families here in the US.

After the soldiers came back home from these wars many of these veterans became basket cases; they became alcoholics, they take drugs, they have all kinds of mental breakdowns, and their worlds are shattered with very high rates of divorce, and they have a hard time adjusting to their life at home. And thousands of these soldiers come back home severely wounded causing a lot of stress for the entire family of these people, including the wife, kids, and other relatives. And many soldiers get cancer and other diseases after they come back from exposure to toxic materials on the battlefields.

There are two facts that we have to keep in mind: 1) that over half of the homeless men in the US today are Vietnam vets, and 2) the number of post-war suicides is equivalent to three times the number of soldiers who died in the actual Vietnam War.

If the American people had a better understanding of the consequences of war and the impact that war has on the social fabric of its own society then Americans would not jump so quickly to the idea of going to war – for example: as Americans did in the case of the current war against Iraq.

War should be the last option after everything else fails; and should be related to protecting your own country.
.

More people die every year in that city as victims of violence than did all American soldiers during the Vietnam War.

That's not an accurate statement. We lost around 55,000 soldiers during the vietnam war, in all of Brazil around 60,000 people lose their life to violence every year.

One thing the nimrod who wrote this article got right is that Brazil is a very violent society. However, contrary to some of the comments by individuals who believe everything they read, Iraq is far more violent than Brazil. There isn't even any reliable numbers for that country which is probably why Brazil, with it's far more accurate book-keeping, is considered a more violent country. It also has 7 times as many people as Iraq. You would not believe how many people miss that little detail.

Vietnam is another bunch of ol' bullcorn. How many American troops were in Vietnam, and what's the Asian countries' population? A no brainer.

Some stats for comparable cities and metros around the city of Rio's population radius (roughly between 4 and 8 million). Rate per 100,000 with absolute numbers in brackets.

1. Rio de Janeiro city, Brazil = 37.72 (2,273)
2. Johannesburg metro, South Africa = 35.56 (2,69
3. Bogotá (city/metro the same under police definition), Colombia = 18.74 (1,372)
4. Detroit metro, United States = 11.32 (507)
5. Houston metro, United States = 9.55 (519)
6. Philadelphia metro, United States = 9.49 (554)
7. San Francisco metro = 8.94 (375)
8. Miami metro = 7.59 (419)
9. Atlanta metro = 7.42 (377)
10. Washington metro = 7.39 (390)

2006 data. It kinda proves the theory that American cities get caught out when including the metro area. It's the fairier comparison.

if you want to show the most dangerous places in Brazil with populations of at least 100,000 places like Camaragibe, Pernambuco, which has a pop. of 100K, has a death rate of 182 per 100K. And numerous other small cities and towns have death rates of 160 per 100K.

if you have not been there you cant even think you know the answer .

one the US press and people failed to support its troops in any form ,
we were the bastard step children of ww2 and the tailings of the keoran war
the press as it is doing now convicts our military in every way it can , butt we as soligers fallow our orders
to do the job to protect the ones we love and our way of life .
you know the one the press loves to use to hide behind but not to defend .

and the congress who fails to spend the money to help the military that defends them and there jobs .
that does not spend the money on there health care after the fact of war , and when it does it takes so long
and the mountain of paper work they just give up and move to the streets .

what we should be looking at is the lack of law enforcement in brazil
the lack of true justice , the free will of the people to be protected by the laws of the land

it does not matter how many US trops were or are in country what matters is the rules of war
sat down before the arive in country ,
dont shoot till fired upon . even if you see them moving wepons past your location
dont fire in churches , even if you trail them into it you cant go in .
dont fire at women and children , even if they have guns
dont cross into another countrys borders , even if you can see there base camp

that would like you not voice your views even though they are incorrect
like costa not using the f word
and like JOAO not having a cold one

death comes in many forms from the lack of a hart beat
to the death of freedom , to the loss of a loved one at the hands a killer who gets away with it

See, Gerry and Ricardo proving my point exactly. Typical of the Brazilians to take an article critical of the violence in Brazil and then trying and make it about the USA. Shooting the messenger and ignoring the message...again. The article makes a reference to the Vietnam War that is eye opening and then they correctly point out that this was not one of the US's prouder moments. But if you want to make comparisons to the Vietnam war and what it did to returning soliders and the violence in Brazil, you are simply idiots.

It war, it is mostly adults who suffer, but these adults were armed and had the ability to defend themselves and yes, I am sure many of the Vietnemese victims were children, hell many of them were soldiers. But these children lost their ives as heros, in their mind, defending thier country. Brazil's children are killed defending thr turfs of their favela drug lord, big difference. Yes it true the 55,000 American's died in Vietnam, but how many of them were innocent women and children, how many of them lived without basic education and healthcare. How many of them were killed in their own cites by drug dealers. Yes, my Brazilian friends, if you want to argue semantics and comparisons so be it.

Children are disprotortinatly the main victims of Brazilian violence, children and young adults, oh there is always the chance of a soap star or rich person getting hit by a stray bullet in Copacabana, or getting car jacked on the way to Angra and murdered, or murdered after giving up your money at a false Blitz.. But most of the people who are killed every year in Brazil are the ones who can least protect themselves...by the way, that makes it mush easier for you elite to deal with. Who cares if poor people get killed in the thousands right? As long as it is not you. Yes, Brazil is in a war as was the US in Vietnam, and like the US, you are losing it badly.

Keep defending and making excuses, it is so typical it makes me want to puke. My wife and her friends are right, nothing will ever change, you don't have the stomach to do what needs to be done. One person compare Detriot to Rio. Do you really think there is any place in Detriot where drug runners are the "governement" and even the police and the military are afraid to go. What choice whould the moradores of Racina make if give Racina or Detroit?

That's not an accurate statement. We lost around 55,000 soldiers during the vietnam war, in all of Brazil around 60,000 people lose their life to violence every year.

Never mind this error in the stats,Bo. Zimmermann´s article does indeed reflect the current reality. I don't know if he has published the Portuguese version of his article somewhere else in Brasil. If not, he being a member of OAB, should attempt to do it in their website and I am not kidding. I intend to send the article to a couple of my friends who are members of the OAB of our state (they understand written English). I suggest you do too to your pals in SE

not in one year

and yes ever senc the US civil war more civilans have died in war than all the armys combined

and yet very few politicans are killed they passed a law to protect themselves on that count

fatima has been away from brasil for a bit now and see how the news in brasil is promoted
to make the country look good in its own eyes and
that is what you get with lack of freadom of press

in the US our press goes for just the big head lines that bring in the money to the big business

lives only matter if they are blond , a actor , singer , ploitican

all others are swept aside

until good people take a stand ajust bad only will the bad prosper

Brazil needs a John Rambo ASAP.

Deep six the nuclear sub and give the millions of dollars to improve the careers of cops and invest in the troubled areas of Rio, SP etc...Brazil is at the edge of fourth generational warfare

Brazil is at the edge of fourth generational warfare

Jon, what is "fourth generational warfare"? Enlighten me, please.

is an editor, and a course in statistics.

My wife and her friends are right, nothing will ever change, you don't have the stomach to do what needs to be done.

What a pity that your father-in-law is not alive. He would have agreed with his daughter. I hope that he is not one of those 13 Brazilian citizens that despicable Italian judge is after.It is a shame that the people who had "stomach to do what needed to be done" are being judged by Italian and Spanish judges.

What Mr.Zimmermann needs.........is an editor and a course in statistics

What makes you think so?

Joao,
Fourth Generation War is normally characterized by a “stateless” entity fighting a state
The most relevant example would be the coordinated gang attcks in Sao Paulo a few years back. It was disheartening to see that happening and I guess we hear about it in Rio. But what can one do? The State goes into the favelas with a heavy hand and innocents are killed. There must be other initiatives for the State to improve the lives of people and stem the violence or cities like Rio and SP will explode again

Joao,
Fourth Generation War is normally characterized by a “stateless” entity fighting a state

Thanks Jon for clarifying my curiosity and confirming my view that we can learn from youngsters too!

But, I want to know what you thought of the article by Zimmermann. Sometimes it is good to be diplomatic, but not all the times. So give us your non whitewashed opinion.

Joao,
(Sometimes it is good to be diplomatic, but not all the times. So give us your non whitewashed opinion. )

I really do not know enough of Zimmerman himself, but essentially his facts bear witness about what is happening in Brazil. We have people here arguing the nuances and semantics of his statistics of Brazil's homicide rate... Canada for example last year had about 650 homicides compared to the thousands and thousands in Brazil, so his article is sobering

I really do not know enough of Zimmerman himself, but essentially his facts bear witness about what is happening in Brazil. We have people here arguing the nuances and semantics of his statistics of Brazil's homicide rate...

I agree with you whole heartedly. Zimmermann´s article is full of essential details. As for the "people arguing the nuances and semantics of his statistics of Brasil´s homcidal rate", never mind. I know about it.

Canada for example last year had about 650 homicides compared to the thousands and thousands in Brazil, so his article is sobering

I would rather let "El Gringo" express his viewpoints on the 650 homicides in Canada last year

It would be interesting to see the statistics about crime distribution in Rio. Living here, I would say that 95% of murders happen in Zona Norte, where is the largest concentration of favelas. Does anyone have any info on this?

Living in Zona Sul of Rio, I think that crime rate here is MUCH lower than in Zona Norte. Here in Zona Sul, I don't see or hear anything of these 50,000 murders here. The life here is pretty calm.

..fair enough Joao

I intend to send the article to a couple of my friends who are members of the OAB of our state (they understand written English). I suggest you do too to your pals in SE

Well I could certainly get it into the hands where the "buck stops".

Could we get a fact check here?
"Once known internationally as the Cidade Maravilhosa (The Marvellous City), Rio de Janeiro can now be better described as a "powder keg" or a "city under siege." More people die every year in that city as victims of violence than did all American soldiers during the Vietnam War. "
Now based upon the previous research by readers here, we have a total of somewhere between 55,000 - 60,000 DIRECTLY killed in Vietnam?
So that means that around 150-160 people per day are murdered in Rio due to violence. Anyone knows that this is absolute bulls**t.
Augusto, my dear Brasilian professor, I am an Australian living in Brasil for the past 12 years. I hope you are not teaching this type of bunk in Australia? That would be doing a huge disservice to both Brasil and Australia. Sure, violence is a problem in Rio, but making these sort of sensationalistic statements is absurb, and does not help at all.

Ricardo: Let me give you the complete information on that subject.

The official death count of the Vietnam War (1964 – 1975) is 59,000 deaths.

But the American mainstream media very rarely mentions to the American people and to the rest of the world that since the Vietnam War ended in 1975

The impact of war on American soldiers and their families are much greater than the American mainstream media ever mentioned to the American people, and Vietnam is a major example of that failure of information.

If the American people had a better understanding of the implications of sending people to war – the American people would not be so casual about sending their kids to war.

But the biggest impact of that war was the loss of life. The US lost 59,000 soldiers during the war, and that tragedy continues in the US in 2008. Since the Vietnam War ended in 1975, more than 30 years ago; over 150,000 US Vietnam veterans committed suicide, for a total casualty number of over 210,000 deaths so far – deaths related to that war. Never mind the large number of people who were injured in that war, and the impact that had in the breakdown of thousands of families here in the US.

After the soldiers came back home from these wars many of these veterans became basket cases; they became alcoholics, they take drugs, they have all kinds of mental breakdowns, and their worlds are shattered with very high rates of divorce, and they have a hard time adjusting to their life at home. And thousands of these soldiers come back home severely wounded causing a lot of stress for the entire family of these people, including the wife, kids, and other relatives. And many soldiers get cancer and other diseases after they come back from exposure to toxic materials on the battlefields.

There are two facts that we have to keep in mind: 1) that over half of the homeless men in the US today are Vietnam vets, and 2) the number of post-war suicides is equivalent to three times the number of soldiers who died in the actual Vietnam War.

If the American people had a better understanding of the consequences of war and the impact that war has on the social fabric of its own society then Americans would not jump so quickly to the idea of going to war – for example: as Americans did in the case of the current war against Iraq.

War should be the last option after everything else fails; and should be related to protecting your own country.

Ricardo,

I am always impressed by your posts.

Since, if I recall correctly, you live in the United States, you know it is fairly common for current Iraq to be made out as safer than most U.S. cities like Chicago and so forth. In my opinion these "stats" are compared incorrectly. Number one, I think since police forces are designated (at least within the U.S. and or Brazil) as paramilitary forces, and since both police and soldiers are given a similar job task of closing with aggressors or defined "enemies" it is better to compare U.S. effectives in Vietnam and Iraq to police forces rather than civilian sectors. Done this way the job description of an effective placed in current Iraq (or the former Vietnam) seems much more dangerous than policing the streets of Chicago. I might be wrong, but I would suspect the overall annual casualties of U.S.effectives in Iraq (and the former Vietnam war) are greater than the annual casualties of any Brazilian city or metro police force. (casualties included wounded and maimed and not just killed)

And you are 100% correct that the casualties from post-Vietnam continue in the United States. This has been known for years by Vietnam veterans and the families of Vietnam veterans. The same thing will likely result with these new Iraqi war veterans and their families.

Ricardo: Let me give you the complete information on that subject.

The official death count of the Vietnam War (1964 – 1975) is 59,000 deaths.

Ricardo,

I am always impressed by your posts.

Since, if I recall correctly, you live in the United States, you know it is fairly common for current Iraq to be made out as safer than most U.S. cities like Chicago and so forth. In my opinion these "stats" are compared incorrectly. Number one, I think since police forces are designated (at least within the U.S. and or Brazil) as paramilitary forces, and since both police and soldiers are given a similar job task of closing with aggressors or defined "enemies" it is better to compare U.S. effectives in Vietnam and Iraq to police forces rather than civilian sectors. Done this way the job description of an effective placed in current Iraq (or the former Vietnam) seems much more dangerous than policing the streets of Chicago. I might be wrong, but I would suspect the overall annual casualties of U.S.effectives in Iraq (and the former Vietnam war) are greater than the annual casualties of any Brazilian city or metro police force. (casualties included wounded and maimed and not just killed)

And you are 100% correct that the casualties from post-Vietnam continue in the United States. This has been known for years by Vietnam veterans and the families of Vietnam veterans. The same thing will likely result with these new Iraqi war veterans and their families.

If Rio de Janeiro is in a civil war, with modern weaponry and deliberate intent exceeding that of 19th century Americana, Brazil is definitely a land of contradictions! G-string bikinis, sunbathing, samba and carnival. Interesting way to wage a civil war.

At Shiloh, tens of thousands of American slaughtered each other. No other American war - not Vietnam not WWII - saw anything like the level of battle carnage as the U.S. Civil War. And the U.S. Civil War left buildings and cities looking like a nuclear bomb went through it. However, I suppose one could argue Brazilian society is under a low scale civil war. That seems reasonable, but then I might suggest in our modern times a number of cities and or neighborhoods in different countries around the world (including the U.S.) are in low scale civil war.

Ken Burns documentary on the U.S. Civil War: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyzW2cAl0gQ

Bo, I've seen a few of your comments and, though your comparisons between Brazil and Iraq are wanting, you talk sense when comparing crime in Brazil to say, the US. What's all this Brazil against US s**t anyway people keep going on about? I'm only an occasional visitor though I have seen people manipulating figures to make US cities look more violent than Rio.



There's conflicting information with Camaragibe's murder rate. One source I've seen has it at 175 per 100,000 for '05 while another has it around 25. The same source with 25 per 100,000 has it at 55 per head for 2006. Both sources appear to be reliable, professional publications so I don't know why the discrepancy.

So I don’t have to pay my f**king $28K worth of student loans.

Bo, I've seen a few of your comments and, though your comparisons between Brazil and Iraq are wanting, you talk sense when comparing crime in Brazil to say, the US. What's all this Brazil against US s**t anyway people keep going on about? I'm only an occasional visitor though I have seen people manipulating figures to make US cities look more violent than Rio.



There's conflicting information with Camaragibe's murder rate. One source I've seen has it at 175 per 100,000 for '05 while another has it around 25. The same source with 25 per 100,000 has it at 55 per head for 2006. Both sources appear to be reliable, professional publications so I don't know why the discrepancy.

Detroit metro is not the same thing as Detroit city proper. Detroit city (not metro - which includes suburbs) has a far higher homicide rate than 11.32 per 100,000. Rio de Janeiro may be more violent than Detroit but that does not therefore make Detroit (or similar U.S. cities) non-violent. Just because one alcoholic keeps his job and another is more consumed in his alcoholism to the point of losing his job does not mean the former is free of the disease of alcoholism. I think the social disease of violence is found in both the United States and Brazil (in other nations as well) though it may be more pronounced in certain Brazilian cities or regions than in its U.S. counterpart.

I think you yourself used a post to contrast Brazil against the United States, by presenting Rio de Janeiro *city* (which I don't know if you meant metro or not by that) against the metropolitans of cities like Detroit, Houston, and Atlanta.

But again... I think if Brazil is in a civil war - and the present United States isn't - then the current Brazilian civil war should be looked at against the U.S. Civil War that took place in the 1860s. Because if the cariocas are in a civil war with deliberate intent, then they appear to be much more passive then their American (USA) counterparts of the 1860s who could articulate much more destruction. The oddity in the Brazilian civil war being of course, that people internationally flock to one of her grand theaters of combat yearly, for carnival, which makes this a peculiar kind of civil war. (she may even attract more visitors than Detroit metro)

They are not called G-Strings in Brazil, but "filo dental" (dental floss bikinis), your comments on Brazil are interesting yet not worth much, obviously your experiences with her are limited. Comparing this article on crime in Brazil and the US is not helpful as they are two entirely different places with entirely different problems, therefore, comapring them is a waste of time. Understanding the root causes of Brazil's problems along with a good understanding of her history is needed to understand the magnitude of the problems. You keep reading and believing the tourist brochures about Rio, while poor people keep dying...its exactly what the Brazilian governement wants.

Unfortunatly, the author hit the nail right on the head and I can tell you that you are much safer in any big North American city than you are in Brazil.

"I think you yourself used a post to contrast Brazil against the United States, by presenting Rio de Janeiro *city* (which I don't know if you meant metro or not by that) against the metropolitans of cities like Detroit, Houston, and Atlanta."

The reason I posted a comparison which (purely by coincidence) happened to be mostly American urban areas was to show people that, while pointing out Brazil is no Vietnam or Iraq like Zimmerframe claimed, I'm not someone that's in denial at how violent Brazil is. I'm not Brazilian anyway.

Detroit metro is far more similar in size to, yes, the CITY of Rio. Detroit city v Rio city is a bullcrap comparison. Duque de Caxias in the Rio metro region has almost twice the murder rate of Detroit city with a similar population. Where do we stop? It's a no brainer, The Rio urban area or whatever you want to call it is more violent than Detroit or any other American city/MSA and anywhere else within a reasonably similar population bracket - barring Johannesburg metro which is about even. Not to get too hung up on statistics as many innocent people die.

BTW, Johannesburg metro's absolute number of murders is supposed to be 2,698. I don't know where the smiley come from.

Brazil is no civil war.

Good comments by omnivore and John Miller.

The reason I posted a comparison which (purely by coincidence) happened to be mostly American urban areas was to show people that, while pointing out Brazil is no Vietnam or Iraq like Zimmerframe claimed, I'm not someone that's in denial at how violent Brazil is. I'm not Brazilian anyway.

Detroit metro is far more similar in size to, yes, the CITY of Rio. Detroit city v Rio city is a bullcrap comparison. Duque de Caxias in the Rio metro region has almost twice the murder rate of Detroit city with a similar population. Where do we stop? It's a no brainer, The Rio urban area or whatever you want to call it is more violent than Detroit or any other American city/MSA and anywhere else within a reasonably similar population bracket - barring Johannesburg metro which is about even. Not to get too hung up on statistics as many innocent people die.

BTW, Johannesburg metro's absolute number of murders is supposed to be 2,698. I don't know where the smiley come from.

Detroit metro is probably more comparable in size to Rio city but you have countries with smaller populations than Rio de Janeiro city or Sao Paulo city so is one to begin to compare those cities homicide rates to small countries? Plus, you can pick out working class suburbs in the United States that have very high homicide rates such as the infamous L.A. suburb Compton city, which is roughly 60 per 100,000 and I believe approximately double the homicide rate of Detroit.

I've never really heard a Brazilian ever argue that Brazil does not have a violence problem. I'm still attempting to ascertain when violence becomes problematic statistically, within any community? Is that when homicide rates (which of course does not reflect all violence) are at 1 per 100,000? 5 per 100,00? 10 per 100,000? 60 per 100,000? Or 175 per 100,000? Is Santiago, Chile or Toronto, Canada, or Mexico City, Mexico, or Manchester, England violent or rather safe places? In other words does violence only become problematic statistically when the violence thresholds are over that of U.S. cities like Detroit? And is such a conclusion subjective or objective analysis?

I would tend to think everyone in the world knows or thinks of Brazil and or Rio de Janeiro as hyper violent. I mean movies like "City of God" do not necessarily project Rio or Brazil as the most safe or gentle place on earth. I'm still curious when violence becomes problematic because no matter what shooting happens in the United States there are plenty of Americans on the internet that are pro-guns and often claim American cities are far safer than Canadian and European cities where criminals are running around slaughtering and attacking everyone in droves. They pull up statistics to prove their assertions. Brazil does have a big violence problem but ultimately it's up to the Brazilians to fix it. I think it's up to people in the United States to fix their own problems too. Pointing out how people in London and Toronto are running around slaughter, rapping, robbing people and leaving the police forces bewildered and local populations trembling to walk out of their doors does no good to me. Likewise it seems to change things little in Detroit or Baltimore or the federal district in which the U.S. President lives, to be harping on Brazil or Rio being consumed in a civil war.

But we are in agreement that Brazil has a violence problem. I also appreciate the fact that you acknowledged attempting to project Brazil as the Vietnam War (maybe in certain locations between drug gangs etc it is) is an exaggeration. But the Brazilians have a democracy and with that comes a certain civic responsibility if you want change. There is nothing magical about change when it comes in the U.S. - it's more often than not done by the citizens "rolling up their sleeves." Nonetheless, I don't think when it comes to violence and gun violence that the United States is any country to be looking toward for answers or as a model. (minus perhaps in certain policing techniques)

something topical and the numbers involved are large:

Four killed in Brazilian shantytown shooting

Rio de Janeiro, Feb 25 : At least four people have been killed in an incursion by drug traffickers into a shantytown in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil's Globonews television reported.


A group of about 30 unidentified individuals opened fire Sunday in Vila Palmeirinha, a shantytown in the northern Rio neighbourhood of Guadalupe, killing four people, EFE news agency reported.

Residents told Globonews that the drug traffickers regained control of the shantytown, which until last week was under the control of a militia group that had defeated the criminals and forced them out two years ago.

The militiamen were expelled from the shantytown last Thursday by a special police unit targeting organised crime.

Rio de Janeiro has become one of the most dangerous cities in Brazil due to the constant clashes among rival drug gangs, police and death squads.

--- IANS

in the US if you do a crime most often you will go to jail

in brasil just move to another city for a few months or a year

and you are free .

and if you do get caught get a lawyer and stall for the rest of your life

That seems reasonable, but then I might suggest in our modern times a number of cities and or neighborhoods in different countries around the world (including the U.S.) are in low scale civil war.

Come on now, to the tune of 182 per 100K?

No other American war - not Vietnam not WWII - saw anything like the level of battle carnage as the U.S. Civil War. And the U.S. Civil War left buildings and cities looking like a nuclear bomb went through it.

Come on now....the American Revolution had over 2 million American causalties, but that's because there were literally brothers killing brothers. But as far as physical destruction and carnage, you can't beat WWII. Did you see Hiroshima? Nagasaki? London? Germany? Why do you think the U.S. gave BILLIONS via the Marshall plan?

written by GTY, 2008-02-25 18:52:20
They are not called G-Strings in Brazil, but "filo dental" (dental floss bikinis)

FIO dental GTY....FIO! Filho is our sons that we hope get in between the FIO!!!

written by GTY, 2008-02-25 18:52:20
your comments on Brazil are interesting yet not worth much, obviously your experiences with her are limited.

Personaly experience....how about ZERO!

Comparisons to the U.S. and Brazil in regards to violence is absurd! The U.S. has at least 310 million people, and last year had LESS than 14,000 people that lost their lives due to violence. Brazil has 190 million, and last year had MORE than 60,000 people that lost their lives to violence!

i was once told if a man rapes a girl in brazil all he has to do is marry her and he wont go to jail ???

"Detroit metro is probably more comparable in size to Rio city but you have countries with smaller populations than Rio de Janeiro city or Sao Paulo city so is one to begin to compare those cities homicide rates to small countries? Plus, you can pick out working class suburbs in the United States that have very high homicide rates such as the infamous L.A. suburb Compton city, which is roughly 60 per 100,000 and I believe approximately double the homicide rate of Detroit."

Any two (or more) locations where there's less than 100% difference in population is a valid comparison. I'm wary of going over about 100% because things start getting sketchy. Whether that be comparing country with city, metro with suburb, administrative division with inner-city district etc. I couldn't care less as long as people dont insult my intelligence by comparing a dinky little place with a gigantic f**king agglomeration. Compton is puny compared to Detroit, the populations are too far apart unless Compton had a similar number of murders outright then it'd be easy. Compton had 67 murders per 100,000 in '05 but it dropped sharply in '06. Here's another little compilation I put together with rates then simple numbers in brackets:

Central cities and suburbs

Duque de Caxias = 82.6 (686)
Detroit = 47.2 (41
Compton = 40.4 (39)
Rio de Janeiro = 37.7 (2,273)
New Orleans = 37.5 (162)

All 2006. It turns out Detroit is unarguably more violent than Compton anyhow ATM.

The murder rates in the cities (and numerous satellite suburbs) of Recife, Foz do Iguaçu, Maceió and Vitória are diabolical. Even more incredible is how they get next to no international media coverage.

*number of murders for Detroit = 418

Well, I checked and Comptons murder rate has declined a few years ago it use the pretty much stay at around the 60 per 100,000 range. But then again Rio and Sao Paulo's murder rates have declined from what they once were many years ago which was in the 70 per 100,000 range.

The problem here is how one interprets statistics. For instance to people that live in Compton it is a very violent place to some American that does not live in Compton it does not matter. Likwise, the 30,000 to 50,000 people that are annually shot in the United States does not matter to people who do not live in sections of U.S. cities were gun violence is a daily and or weekly occurance when they are reading numbers that say 14,000 people in the United States have fell victim to homicide.

Furthermore, metros and even city propers are segregated when it comes to crime distribution - this is true be it in Detroit or be it in Rio de Janeiro or be it in Glasgow, Scotland. My city has murders with even several hundreds mor shot annually that don't die (I know as I am friends of both mudered and those that have been shot and lived through attempted homicides) yet you have sections within that same city where no one is ever murdered and the lifestyle seems to be a different world. This holds true in just about all cities of the world and Brazilian cities are no exception.

But I go back to my point or question: When does violence and or the homicide rate become statistically problematic? Is that when it reaches over 3 per 100,000? 10 per 100,000? 20 per 100,000? 40 per 100,000? Or 185 per 100,000? It's like asking the question when does a man hiting his wife become problematic, after 1 hit, 3 hits, weekly beatings, or daily beatings? It's like asking the question when does drinking alcohol reach the point of alcoholism, after 1 drink, 6 drinks, after black outs, or is it when you can't stop drinking unless something outside your means stops you, or is it simply when you lose your job?

Staying shortly in a small and fairly peacful town in the upper Midwest once, where people left their doors unlocked and keys in running cars, revolutionized some of my thinking on the issues of set standards for crime and violence within communities.

Violence becomes normal to those that live in it. The only thing that becomes unnormal to them is either the lack of steady violence or a violence threshold further above what they are use to. That someone from a violent Detroit neighborhood would enter say... a violent favela in Rio where the threshold of violence and blatant gang control is his far above his U.S. home he came from, does not mean his Detroit did not have a violence problem. Furthermore, that he can't envision real life being less violent than his Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, or Baltimore worlds only suggests he is not unlike the battered woman who believes occassional or frequent slaps is not only normative "in real life" but practical to existence.

The Global Peace Index ranks Norway and New Zealand as number 1 and 2 respectively. So, according to the Global Peace Index (based upon their methodology and indicators) Norway and New Zealand lead the world in its study.

Brazil ranks as #83 and the United States trails behind ranking in at #96.

Out of something like 26 indicators used (I forget the exact number) indicator #11 is homicides per 100,000 people within a country. So, hommicides are accounted for in this analysis and not just ignored.

http://www.visionofhumanity.com/rankings/

I believe one of those indicators is war or combat and we know which quagmire the US is involved with, and that pushes the US further below Brazil which is at peace with its neighbours

written by jon, 2008-02-26 16:30:41
I believe one of those indicators is war or combat and we know which quagmire the US is involved with, and that pushes the US further below Brazil which is at peace with its neighbours

Very true. And I'm sure without that war or occupation of Iraq the U.S. would rise higher in the ranking but I'm not so sure the movement upward would be monumental. I wouldn't put all my trust in the Global Peace Index anyways as all of these kinds of analysis are somewhat subjective. Nonetheless, they can help give a perspective on things based upon the values or variables they use.

My point is actually less to do with Brazil's ranking - even though it is placed ahead of the U.S. - and more to do with the U.S. ranking in relation to countries like Norway and New Zealand or even Canada.

It is very interesting to note that many commentators who have never stepped into Brazil or come just as tourists are giving all sorts of "palpites" about this article which in my opinion is full of facts, though the author might have committed some errors in numbers. Unfortunately, many of our fellow bloggers have latched on to his numbers and have ignored to read rest of his article which is highly factual and well written. I notice that some of our regular bloggers like Bo, Forrest, GTY and many others who have Brazilian families and live (or have lived) here have made intelligent comments regardless of their nationalities. I am sure that they comprehend Portuguese and read all the newspapers and understand what Zimmermann is trying to communicate.Unfortunately there are no other Brazilian bloggers in this thread. Zimmermann is stating the reality and everyone seems to be more interested in finding faults with his numbers.

Just to let you know that Zimmermann is not alone in his "colocações", I would request all of you with a half assed knowledge of our language in the following article.

http://www.estadao.com.br/nacional/not_nac130939,0.htm

If you guys cant understand this article, I am sure Bo will be able to interpret it for you in his impeccable Portuguese Ably assisted by Forrest and GTY

Detroit (the core city) is very violent e harmony. In an ideal world homicide would be a problem if a single person is killed. America's number of willful homicides is more in the region of 17,000 to 18,000 currently rather than 14,000. Brazil is around 45,000 according to my sources.

João, the reason people have criticized the article and author is because it (and clearly, he) is full of exaggerations and inaccuracies.

I never read the article. My posts were directed at comments within this thread, that frankly, can be judged from outside and in rather objective ways. For example: asserting that Brazil is in a civil war. I know of no military officers or military historians today that have actually been in the U.S. Civil War nor observed it from the side lines, yet they try to objectively analyze (and even compare it to other wars) and draw what conclusions they may. No one in Russia or Germany or Australia needs to "visit" Brazil to compare her soc-called current "civil war" to the U.S. Civil War of the 1860s. Brazil is not so unique that she defies all sociological known occurrences throughout human history . Her "civil war" is not so awing as to gain the attention of U.S. military scholars and strategist, or other professionals of like around the world, no matter how impressed contemporary Brazilians might be. Now, on the other hand, the contemporary Battle of Falujha (spelling?) - and no I have not been there - will be studied by military professionals for years to come in how to take down a "built up area" e.g. urban combat. G-strings and carnivals and the ability to draw international tourists does not equate to the U.S. experience in Vietnam, the Cambodian killing fields, or Shiloh.

There is nothing extraordinary about the Brazilian experience. I'll roll the dice and say contemporary Brazilians are experience a lot less violent devastation than Mayans, Cherokee, or Tupi Indians experienced at the arrival and encounter with early Europeans. So, this violence that you believe is so "fantastic" and unparalleled in human history going on in Brazil exists only within your perception.

The Brazilians - like U.S. citizens - could bring a great decline to the violence and crime within their societies if they cared enough to actually rally to do so - like U.S. people across the states immediately after 9/11 - but not enough of us as U.S. or Brazilian citizens really care to do so. (in all honesty I must admit I'm one of those that has become rather indifferent)

There is a difference between a subject and citizen. And last I checked neither Brazilian or American (USA) is under the rule of an absolute monarchy.

Ricardo, I read your articles and I found in them the same problem you point out in the article above: data presented in such a way to make a point. One of your articles mention population control (not even here but also in the US). Can you suggest how and what would the impact be in the current Brazilian population? Unless we migrate (or kill) half of the Brazilian population, getting to the optimal 100K people won't be possible. So what do we do with the current population size? Simply apply population control techniques and Brazil's education and violence problem will go away?

Regarding your article about Angola, what does the Brazilian population own to the Angola population? Not clear why the current Brazilian people need to pay something to the Angola people.

Even his wife can stand that wife beater, his daughter despises that child m******r. Putting it simply, Bobão is a Burro, son of a Mula mother and Jumento father. Bobão is the “toilet paper” of life.

Costinha

to control the population you would have to fight the church
and the poor .

FYI the population in the US had slowed to almost nill
but then came the mass infulx of ileagles geting all the freebies
of the US and poping kids out gum balls as they have found that unlike
there countries they get paied per kid , free food pre kid
and free schooling

so stop the church and its lack of condom use

or was that pedophilia?

The "good" side of this very bad statistic (60,000 killed in one year in Brazil), please note I put "good" into apostrophes, is that it seems that these deaths (and violent crimes in general) are VERY localized in Brazil. Meaning, an overwhelming majority of these deaths take place in favelas and other poor areas.

Jakob,

You forgot police holding cells, prisons..

Can Bo or jakob point me in the direction of the '60,000' people killed in Brazil per annum? I've heard of 55,000 for '05 (I don't think that link is online anymore and I don't know if it was reliable) and 2003 had around 51,000 for certain. The 1980 to 2002 stats for metropolitan regions in Brazil on the MJ website claimed 53,242 'homicidios' were committed in Brazil in 2002. But that link, to my annoyance, appears to have been deleted a few months ago. The latest figures for 2006 (I have two data sets) suggest 44,663 and 46,660. I don't know if either of these include police killings.

He who has no sins cast the first stone!

Violence is an American patent… Americans, your credibility equals to zero when the topic is death, and besides, if your suggestions were any good, you would not give it away but sell it.

Costinha

PS Os Estados Unidos é uma merda e sempre será.

written by ..., 2008-02-28 14:17:10
He who has no sins cast the first stone!

Violence is an American patent… Americans, your credibility equals to zero when the topic is death, and besides, if your suggestions were any good, you would not give it away but sell it.

LOL. I have to say... that was a good one. Especially since it's kind of true. Actually, there is a very popular saying on U.S. streets, "Game is not to be told but sold."



(I hope we can avoid getting into a lot of U.S. bashing and then consequently Brazil bashing etc. There might be some things the U.S. is a good model for... but I don't think lack of violence is one of them)

Please read another article in:

http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/9150/

Have a great evening.

Violence is an American patent… Americans, your credibility equals to zero when the topic is death

The death rate in Brazil is 7X that of the U.S.!


You tell me merdinha, who sounds more violent to you?

Sai da frente que eu quero passar, ou vou te atropelar… Mr. depravado do sexo!

Nooooooooooooojentu FDP

Costa

"The death rate in Brazil is 7X that of the U.S.!"

Hmm....though I back you Bo in your crime arguments against the denialists on here, I've noticed you tend to use underestimates for the US and overestimates for Brazil where lethal violence is concerned.

Can you (or jakob) give me a link to the 60,000 claim like I asked for? All reliable sources suggest the murder or willed homicide rate in Brazil is more around 4X that of the US. A bit lower than 7.

As you can see and you will find, it's VERY easy to get crime statistics in regards to the U.S. Not so the case for Brazil. And also these stats show a decrease in violent crime and non-violent crime in the U.S. Do you think there was a decrease in Brazil? And just how accurate are statistics in Brazil? Every single report I've seen concerning Brazil, from both the U.N. and the brazilian federal gov't. itself readily admits that they believe that at least 10-15% of murders go unreported and a much larger percentage in respect to other violent and non-violent crimes such as rape, robbery, etc.

The last report I saw on Brazil showed a total murder number of 58,000 and I believe that was for 2006 while in the U.S. it was slightly under 14,000 for 2006 and early reports show a decrease for 2007. When you total that out on a per capita basis it makes a person 7X more likely to be murdered in Brazil than in the U.S. One just can't take an overall number and not factor in the population of each country.

As you can see and you will find, it's VERY easy to get crime statistics in regards to the U.S. Not so the case for Brazil. And also these stats show a decrease in violent crime and non-violent crime in the U.S. Do you think there was a decrease in Brazil? And just how accurate are statistics in Brazil? Every single report I've seen concerning Brazil, from both the U.N. and the brazilian federal gov't. itself readily admits that they believe that at least 10-15% of murders go unreported and a much larger percentage in respect to other violent and non-violent crimes such as rape, robbery, etc.

The last report I saw on Brazil showed a total murder number of 58,000 and I believe that was for 2006 while in the U.S. it was slightly under 14,000 for 2006 and early reports show a decrease for 2007. When you total that out on a per capita basis it makes a person 7X more likely to be murdered in Brazil than in the U.S. One just can't take an overall number and not factor in the population of each country.

Bo, your comments evidence that you never really lived in an area of violence in the U.S.

What is the difference of a drop in homicide rate in a city by a 2 or 4 points? Not really anything for the people living in those cities. I tell ya... whether the year comes out with stats for my town for 17 per 100,000 or 23 per 100,000 I never can tell any real change - it's simply dealing with a range in numbers but the feel of the city and threats remain. People in the U.S. that hail from parts of the U.S. that have European like homicide rates always like to define "The United States" in terms of these statistical numbers they find showing a broad nation drop in crime and or violence. But they never define the "American experience" from the stand point of someone living in a fairly dangerous working class area of Detroit or in the ghettos of Baltimore. And the irony is they think people living in those areas should believe "America" (USA) is simply like the upper-class Seattle neighborhood they come from or the rural Virgina area they come from. But just remember... the U.S. La Cosa Nostra or Gambino crime family wasn't born in a vacuum neither was the Gangster Disciples.

It's evident that you've never lived or even visited a country that truly has problems with violence....such as Brazil.

What is the difference of a drop in homicide rate in a city by a 2 or 4 points?

Means a helluva lot for that 2-4% of families that didn't lose sons, daughters, mothers and fathers. Brazil has statistically 7X more the number of violent deaths per capita, and that's even with the ADMITTED lack of accurate statistics, under-reporting, that occurs in Brazil in significant percentages.

And by your comments E...
written by bo, 2008-03-01 16:07:32
It's evident that you've never lived or even visited a country that truly has problems with violence....such as Brazil.

Source for blog article: [url= http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...a_lot.html

My question remains: When does violence become a statistical problem? You make vague propositions like, "a country that truly has problems with violence....such as Brazil," but that does not really clarify when violence becomes problematic for a community, it only suggests or points out Brazil and or parts of Brazil have greater violence problems than her U.S. counterpart. I still go back to the alcoholic analogy because Betty Ford was never made homeless by her substance addiction unlike a number of alcoholics (some of which have been incarcerated for killing people in auto accidents).

Excerpt from L.A. Times blog article.

Moreover, citywide and countywide homicide rates are deceiving because, like all big cities, Los Angeles County is a combination of safe and dangerous neighborhoods. Areas with very few homicides, such as Brentwood, Malibu, Santa Monica, Beverly Hills and Woodland Hills form a patchwork with areas with a lot of homicides, such as Compton, South-Central, Watts, Crenshaw and Athens.

The differences are so extreme that they render the county- and citywide rates almost meaningless. The Los Angeles Police Department's Southeast Division in Watts, for example, had a homicide rate of 45 deaths per 100,000 people last year, triple the citywide average.

West Los Angeles, meanwhile, had a homicide rate of less than 1 death per 100,000--so low that people living there might as well be living in Europe. Such high- and low-homicide neighborhoods cancel each other out, producing a medium rate overall. But this may be little comfort to people in neighborhoods where homicide rates quite literally parallel those of Third World countries.

had a homicide rate of 45 deaths per 100,000 people last year, triple the citywide average.

45 per 100K????


LMAO!!


The entire country of Brazil approaches 30 per 100K!!!


Go to Camaragibe, Pernambuco where the murder rate is 182 per 100K and spend a year or two. You'll find it's a helluva lot more dangerous than Compton Calif. or any other American city!

Numerous claims are made about certain countries not showing the full number of murders. Colombia, Honduras, Guatemala etc. Brazil is neither unique nor noticeably better or worse than those countries as far as record-keeping. Let's just stick with what we know eh? I'll post the Brazil ones tomorrow as I'm out on my feet here.

2006 willed homicide rate [absolute number]

United States = 5.7 [17,034]

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_01.html

Including justifiable homicides

United States = 5.9 [17,651]

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_13.html
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_14.html

Numerous claims are made about certain countries not showing the full number of murders.

Well the U.S. is certainly not one of them Gerry. And if you believe they are, then there's no use in trying to discuss the situations in either country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

The following table is based on Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform Crime Reports statistics that initially became available in September 2007. The data is available on the FBI 2006 statistic site and is downloadable in Excel format. The FBI recommends against using its data as a ranking for a variety of reasons.[1] The population numbers are based on U.S. Census estimates for the year end. The number of murders also includes nonnegligent manslaughter. This list is based on the reporting agency. In most cases the city and the reporting agency are identical. However, in some cases such as Charlotte, Honolulu and Las Vegas, the reporting agency encompasses more than one city.

It is also important to note that crime "rates" are affected by the size of the central municipality - they will generally appear much lower in larger, newer cities (particularly in the Western United States) that have been able to annex larger amounts of suburban and rural areas at the fringe. In older regions of the United States, particularly in the Northeast, many cities had their boundaries set in the 1700s, and have since grown much larger than that. In such places, the area considered the central "municipality" may only consist of the central CBD/core with older housing stock and a higher population density (particularly with daytime CBD workers who are not counted as residents) and therefore appear to have a higher crime "rate" even though in reality, they often have much less crime per capita than core CBDs/cities that have annexed larger amounts of surrounding land as part of their municipality.

Murder is the only statistic that all agencies are required to report. Consequently some agencies particularly in Illinois do not report all the crimes. If components are missing the total is adjusted to "0."

Look at the reports, from 250,000 and above, all the way to towns with pops. of 40-60K. Look at how many cities and towns with pops. BELOW 250K in the U.S. that had ZERO murders!!

That's the huge difference. I would be willing to wager that there isn't one brazilian municipality with a pop. of at least 30,000 where there is ZERO murders!

Please note in the FBI stats. that the dreaded Compton Calif that are beloved statutory rapist E harmony loves to rant about had a murder rate of 40 per 100K!! And the murder champion for the entire U.S. was Gary, Indiana with a rate of 48 per 100K!

It pales in comparison with Brazilian towns and cities. Gary Indiana would be considered a "SAFE" municipality here in Brazil with a pop. of 60-100K! And that's a fact!

Murder in Brazil Is Not Just a Big-City Problem Anymore
Written by Elma Lia Nascimento
Wednesday, 28 February 2007
It's common knowledge that while Brazil's largest cities, like São Paulo, Rio and Salvador, are plagued by violence the rest of the country still offers plenty of places, which are islands of quiet and safety. This common knowledge, however, has just been debunked.

A study by the Organization of Ibero-American States shows that violent crimes in Brazil are moving from the capitals to the country's interior. Murders, the report reveals, are now spread throughout 556 or 10% of the 5560 Brazilian municipalities.

Rio, São Paulo and all other densely populated cities don't make into the 10 worst cities for violent death. They don't appear even among the 100 worst cities. Rio de Janeiro shows up at 107th place with 57.2 murders per 100,000 and São Paulo only makes it at 182nd place with 48.2 homicides per 100,000.

While falling in the big cities the murder rate has been steadily increasing in the hinterland, however.

The 10 most violent municipalities in Brazil don't even include a capital city. Among them only two in fact are in metropolitan areas: Serra, in the state of Espírito Santo and Ilha de Itamaracá, in Pernambuco.

The research, which was a joint effort with Brazil's Health Ministry, shows that Brazilian champion of murder is not a big town, but Colniza, a small 13,000-residents city in the state of Mato Grosso, which has had over 20 murders a year for the last three years, putting it at the top with a rate of 165 deaths per 100,000 residents.

All numbers are from 2004, the last year in which the statistical data have been consolidated.

The 556 cities analyzed in the study concentrate 71.8% of all the murders in Brazil. While Colniza appears as number 1, the last town in the list, Nova América, in the state of Goiás, appears with 29.8 homicides per 100,000, which still puts it inside an area that the Inter-American Development Bank (IADB) classifies as presenting "total rupture of the public safety mechanisms." These are cities where the population neither trusts the police nor believes they can solve their problems.

A recent Violence Map drawn by the Brazilian government has shown that while the Brazilian population increased 16.5% in the decade going from 1994 to 2004, the number of murders during the same period grew 48.4%, from 32.603 deaths a year to 48,374.

Some of Brazil's most violent places are new towns created with the deforestation of the Amazon and they include besides Colniza, Juruena, São José do Xingu and Aripuanã, all Mato in Grosso and Tailândia, in the state of Pará, where lawlessness seems to be the rule. They are in fact nobody's land.

Naturally, the number of murders is not exactly small in the capitals. Only seven from Brazil's 26 capitals do not show up among the 556 meanies and the metropolitan areas of the capitals of Rio de Janeiro, Pernambuco and Espírito are some of the most lethal areas in the country. Since 1998, Pernambuco and Espírito Santo have appeared in the Violence Map among the most dangerous states to your life.

"These are cities where there are huge fights for the land, involving Indians, deforestation and the illegal appropriation of areas. These are very remote regions, of difficult access, where the government and laws are absent," says the report's author, sociologist Julio Jacobo Waiselfisz, for whom Brazil's violence has reached unbearable highs.

Commenting the study, Brazil's Health Minister, Agenor Alves, said that "the data are not encouraging at all." "This is an alarming worrisome situation," he stated, adding that the new numbers will be useful in helping the government to adopt the right policies to lessen the problem of violence in Brazil.

With 48.374 homicides in 2004, Brazil is considered the world's 4th worst country in number of murders just behind Colombia, Russia and Venezuela. And this number could be worse if the real numbers were in. Waiselfisz believes that there are 15% more homicides in Brazil than the statistics show.

Thousands of deaths are never reported to the authorities. In this case, as he believes, the victims are buried in clandestine cemeteries or just abandoned in the jungles and rivers where they are never found or accounted for.

Top 30 municipalities where murder is a problem in Brazil (average rate for 2002/2004):

City, State, Murder Rate per 100,000, Ranking

Colniza MT 165.3 1st
Juruena MT 137.8 2nd
Coronel Sapucaia MS 116.4 3rd
Serra ES 111.3 4th
São José do Xingu MT 109.6 5th
Vila Boa GO 107.0 6th
Tailândia PA 104.9 7th
Aripuanã MT 98.2 8th
Ilha de Itamaracá PE 95.1 9th
Macaé RJ 94.5 10th
Foz do Iguaçu PR 94.3 11th
Itaguaí RJ 92.7 12th
Recife PE 91.2 13th
Tunas do Paraná PR 86.8 14th
Itaboraí RJ 83.7 15th
Cariacica ES 83.3 16th
Cabo de Santo Agostinho PE 82.2 17th
Santa Cruz do Xingu MT 81.7 18th
Duque de Caxias RJ 80.9 19th
Ribeirão PE 79.4 20th
Rio Bonito do Iguaçu PR 79.3 21st
Vitória ES 78.6 22nd
Nova Iguaçu RJ 78.5 23rd
Vicente Dutra RS 78.1 24th
Cotriguaçu MT 77.4 25th
Buritis RO 77.3 26th
Jaboatão dos Guararapes PE 76.9 27th
São Sebastião SP 76.9 28th
Agrestina PE 75.8 29th
Diadema SP 74.6 30th

Rio de Janeiro RJ 57.2 107th
São Paulo SP 48.2 182nd

More Civilians Murdered in Brazil in One Year than in Iraq After 3 Years of War
Written by Francesco Neves
Tuesday, 26 September 2006
About 45,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed since the invasion of their country by the United States in March 2003. In 2005 alone over 55,000 Brazilians were murdered in a non-declared civil war that has been ravaging Brazil for years.

According to just-released data by Brazil's Justice Ministry more than 150 Brazilians suffered violent death each day last year. The government, however, called reporters to tell that crime has been dropping in Brazil in recent years mainly due to disarmament campaigns.

For Marcelo Durante, the Justice Ministry's report coordinator, the biggest reduction in criminality occurred in states where more people participated in the government program to buy back firearms.

Durante also revealed that many violent crimes are underreported in Brazil. He mentioned for example that it's believed that 75% of robberies and 85% of rapes are never reported to the police.

Many Brazilian seem to think that reporting those crimes would be just a waste of time since the authorities wouldn't do anything anyway.

The government study listed crimes that occurred in cities with more than a 100,000 inhabitants in 2004 and 2005. The numbers come straight from the states Security Secretariats.

The state of Rio de Janeiro despite a 4% decrease in the number of violent deaths kept its title as murder champion followed by Pernambuco state in the Brazilian northeast.

Camaragibe, a city in Recife's (capital of Pernambuco) metropolitan area, was the municipality with the highest number of violent deaths. There were 180.9 murders for each 100 thousand residents during the period studied.

Duque de Caxias, in Rio de Janeiro, came in second with 120.7 deaths per 100,000. And it was a big surprise to see Curitiba, capital of the southern state of Paraná, appearing in third, with a rate of 119.9 deaths.

For comparison's sake, New Orleans, the US most violent city had a murder rate of 53.1 deaths per 100,000 before the Katrina hurricane. In Washington DC the rate is 45 per 100,000, in Detroit, 41.8 and in Iraq 27.5 violent deaths per 100,000 people.

All over Brazil, the number of deaths by violent crime grew 1% from 2004 to 2005, raising from 54,696 homicides to 55.312. This despite the reduction of murders in 11 states including Rio Grande do Sul, which saw an expressive decline of 35%.

Bo,

Colniza in Brazil is a small town of something like 13,000 people or so. That said you can't be to disgruntled if I point out the small suburban town of of Maywood outside Chicago, which in 2003 had a homicide rate of 74.8 per 100,000 according to city-data.com. Maywood I believe has a population of roughly 20,000 or so.

Source: http://www.city-data.com/city/...inois.html

find me one with 181 per 100K!!



You're arguments are hilarious! You try to compare a country with 190 million people that have 60,000 people murdered a year with a country that has more than 300 million a year and has less than 14,000 people murdered a year!

Do you think you are going to win this argument concerning where is more violent.....and MUCH more violent?

hat said you can't be to disgruntled if I point out the small suburban town of of Maywood outside Chicago, which in 2003 had a homicide rate of 74.8 per 100,000 according to city-data.com. Maywood I believe has a population of roughly 20,000 or so.

And 2003 was a complete aberration!!!! Look at all the other years before and after....they are approximately half of 2003!


E statutory rapist....you are grasping at straws my son. It's quite comical to see you attempt to dodge and manipulate given and proven stats. Especially when you've never step foot in Brazil.

ok....
written by bo, 2008-03-02 18:10:25
find me one with 181 per 100K!!

Why? That is not the point. Just like its not the point between alcoholics who can drink the most. The fact that alcohol has become problematic in their lives is.

Not to mention the United States is suppose the be a developed nation and beyond the levels of violence problems it has - in theory at least. Can you point me toward another G-8 nation that has any city which as a homicide rate roughly around that of Detroit's or Maywood's? My point is simply that the United States is not a nation to emulate in this regards - that Brazil can look toward better models, that some nations like Norway set a higher social standard.

You're arguments are hilarious! You try to compare a country with 190 million people that have 60,000 people murdered a year with a country that has more than 300 million a year and has less than 14,000 people murdered a year!

Do you think you are going to win this argument concerning where is more violent.....and MUCH more violent?

I don't live in the *whole* of America (USA). I live in one particular place, that comes with its own social mores and its own realities, its not like Rio or Colniza nor even Detroit but its not like London exactly either. In terms of infrastructure it is first world but in terms of violence it might be more akin to Mexico City. So, this appeal to the mathematical "national average" does not move me. Plus, I think it has already been established in this thread that Brazil has a greater violence problem than the United States, but my point is nations with their own significant violence problems shouldn't be throwing stones. Or put it like this... given the huge poverty issues in Brazil I would feel pretty much the same way about Brazilians pointing fingers at India or Nigeria in terms of berating them over poverty problems.

Now, that shouldn't be to hard to understand, even for a hillbilly from West Virginia. (dust your overalls off, patch your knees, and put on some shoes, the cosmopolitan women of Rio don't like that fashion statement)

Actually Bo you're right. It's inevitable Brazil has more unrecorded willed homicides than the US but I'm not sure about the 15% claim, sounds iffy. Maybe in the late 80's or early 90's.

Brazil willful homicide rate 2006 [absolute numbers]

23.9 [44,663]

25.7 [46,653]

Two sources I have for '06. Quite clearly and even including police homicides and other 'self defence' killings by civilians or what have you (not sure if they do or not), it's a little over 4X that of America. 5 max.

I have these numbers on a document I was working on but I'll find the links in the next few hours. Meanwhile I'm off to have a snooze.

where was reciffe in that mix

i know in 2006
4.500 women were killed in PB reciffe alone

Well, I'm an American and I was going to visit Brazil in April. I was going to spend the day in Rio but the rest of my visit was going to be in Minas Gerais, but after to reading all of these statistic's I think maybe I will cancel it. I would love to see the country but I don't want to die for it.

ike.i.ike@hotmail.com

I was going to spend the day in Rio but the rest of my visit was going to be in Minas Gerais, but after to reading all of these statistic's I think maybe I will cancel it.

Don't cancel your visit to Brazil, Isaac. I am sure you will enjoy your visit to Minas Gerais (Very hospitable people and pretty women too). Don't be cowed down by the stats. The month of April is a good time to visit Brazil.

A Polícia Federal anunciou esta manhã a prisão de José Dias da Silva, de 34 anos, mais conhecido como Chacrinha. Suspeito de integrar o grupo de extermínio que vem sendo chamado de Homicídios S.A., ele foi detido no parque aquático no município de Macaparana, interior de Pernambuco. José Dias foi encaminhado para a sede da PF no Recife, onde vai prestar depoimento ainda nesta quinta-feira.

The federal police announced this morning the arrest of José Dias da Silva, 34, better known as Chacrinha. Suspected of being a member of a death squad that has come to be known as Murder, Inc., he was arrested at the aquarium in the city of Macaparana, in the interior of Pernambuco, and sent to federal police headquarters in Recife, where his statement will be taken immediately.

De acordo com o assessor de comunicação da corporação, Giovani Santoro, os travalhos procedem para capturar outros integrantes da quadrilha que seria responsável por uma série de assassinatos no Agreste do estado, principalmente na cidade de Caruaru. No dia 12 de abril deste ano, uma operação conjunta entre as Polícias Federal e Militar, chamada Operação Aveloz, prendeu em Caruaru 29 pessoas ligadas ao grupo de extermínio que teria assassinado mais de mil pessoas nos últimos cinco anos.

According with PF spokesperson Giovani Santoro, efforts continue to capture other members of the gang, which is allegedly responsible for a series of muders in the rural areas of the state, principally the city of Caruaru. On April 12 of this year, 29 persons were arrested in Caruaru over ties to a death squad that reportedly murdered over 1,000 persons in the last 5 years.

Those numbers start to move the group — which reportedly included miltary policemen — into the same league as the Colombian AUC.

As investigações tiveram início em janeiro deste ano. Segundo a polícia, o grupo era chefiado por Rosemário Bezerra de Menezes, 37 anos, e mantinha uma média de três a quatro assassinatos por semana. Os valores pagos aos pistoleiros variavam de R$ 1 mil a R$ 5 mil por cada crime. Além dos executores, a quadrilha era formada por policiais militares e empresários caruaruenses. Policiais dos estados de Pernambuco, Alagoas, Espírito Santo, Brasília e Piauí participaram da operação.

Investigations began in January of this year. According to police, the group was headed by Rosemário Bezerra de Menezes, 37, and carried out 3 to 4 assassinations per week. The sums paid to the gunmen varied from R$1,000 to R$5,000 per crime. Along with the executioners, the gang was made up of military policemen and city businessowners. Agents from Pernambuco, Alagoas, Espírito Santo, Brasilía and Piauí took part in the operations.

Por determinação da 3ª Vara Criminal de Caruaru, além de 31 mandados de prisão, foram expedidos também mais de 50 mandados de busca e apreensão e quebras de sigilos bancários e fiscais dos envolvidos. De acordo com as investigações, os policiais militares suspeitos de integrarem a quadrilha chegavam antecipadamente à cena do crime e desfaziam os vestígios do assassinato para garantir a impunidade dos criminosos. Muitas vezes, eles mesmos eram os executores das mortes. Entre os militares havia soldados e sargentos. Os presos responderão pelos crimes de homicídio, formação de quadrilha, tráfico de drogas, tráfico de armas, posse ilegal de armas de fogo.

By order of the 3rd Criminal Bar of Caruaru, along with the 31 arrest warrants, more than 50 search and bank record warrants were issued. According to the investigations, the military police suspected of being part of the gang would arrive early at the scene of the crime and cover up the evidence to guarantee the impunity of the assassins. Many times, they themselves carried out the murders. Among the PMs were both privates and sergeants. The prisoners will be tried for homicide, racketeering, drug trafficking, arms smuggling and illegal possession of firearms.

And some debate if death squads still exist in Brazil? This was last year and isn't even Rio, it's the northeast state of Pernambuco and tiny little Caruaru where I have actually visited on more than one occasion.

I was used to make this joke in the US while attending my PhD at Pennsylvania State University, USA. We Brazilians are so poor and old fashioned that we still make babies at home by the old and dirty traditional way.

I was used to tell Europeans that Brazilians are so short deprived on their intelligence and our memory is so short that we are forced by nature to have sex everyday in order to accomplish our nature duty. Advance modern man in the developed countries they are so intelligent and far away ahead in their intellectual profile that thye can do sex just annually or once in a life time that they sill know how to make it.

Australians are so advanced and now becoming rich accumulatin fat in their bodies like Americans do.

As a scientist with three issued American patentst pursuing a sort of 'scientific discovery' I feel proud of Brazil for being poor and behind.

As a poor country we do not have problems of rich societies, mainly obesity that is promising to reach half of the world population byt 2050.

______________________
Free Fruits on Public Areas to Curb Spreading Obesity

Fruits are low in calories and highly nutritional already grown on public places at increasing ratios to face obesity trends. Tree climbing also can be a body exercise for kids harvesting fruits.

Fruits have around four times more water content than cookies and easily satisfy hunger taking less energy. Refrigerators full of fruits easily beat junkies.

In Brazil we are increasing fruit trees in the public areas changing the country to a large tropical orchard. Then, sidewalks, squares, parks, roadsides will be plenty of free fruits bearing appropriate food to fight spreading obesity. Free fruits are protected from the power of the economic system pursuing profitability.

Other countries are invited to join us on a fight against global obesity toward a Public Fructification. Brazil intends to become a developed country without common problems of a superpower.

Planting fruit trees is easy!.
http://revver.com/watch/225528
http://revver.com/watch/529604

Carnivores?
http://revver.com/watch/218695

Brazil is a very complex country and there are many reasons why we have a major problem with crime today.

Ricardo, I admire you but I am sick and tired of people using the same jargon to "explain" the violent situation in Rio. Let me tell you, as a Carioca, that I agree with the article. This guy is saying exactly what I have been saying here, but he is being picked as anti-Brazilian by you lot. The reality is that in Rio no one is safe. Even in the "NICE" areas such as Barra da Tijuca where my father lives, one can feel safe. Forget about the chaos in Rio last summer where the drug dealers were at war with the police. Never mind that my sister ex-boyfriend (thank goodness she ended the relationship) was on call and scared to death because the police has less "machine-gun power" than the drug dealer". Never mind that Santa's helicopter was shot last December while delivering gifts to less fortunate kids.

Never mind Ricardo, you are safe in the States while most hardworking Brazilians have to put up with s**t like this. Easy to say when we are sitting here in the US.

Ricardo, I admire you but I am sick and tired of people using the same jargon to "explain" the violent situation in Rio. Let me tell you, as a Carioca, that I agree with the article. This guy is saying exactly what I have been saying here, but he is being picked as anti-Brazilian by you lot. The reality is that in Rio no one is safe. Even in the "NICE" areas such as Barra da Tijuca where my father lives, one can feel safe. Forget about the chaos in Rio last summer where the drug dealers were at war with the police. Never mind that my sister ex-boyfriend (thank goodness she ended the relationship) was on call and scared to death because the police has less "machine-gun power" than the drug dealer". Never mind that Santa's helicopter was shot last December while delivering gifts to less fortunate kids.

Never mind Ricardo, you are safe in the States while most hardworking Brazilians have to put up with s**t like this. Easy to say when we are sitting here in the US.

PHD

your free fruit is not so free your street people claim the trees and try too sell the fruit.

at any market you will see women with kids buying cookies and sweet bread too fill up there kids with
as with water or milk keeps them full longer .

just like the poor eat steamed corn meal and milk or corn starch as it stays in the system longer .

and builds fat

the reason first world countries dont have as many kids as others is
they are expensive pets .
with no land to work less needed to work .
we still have sex just use birth control well most do

with the infulx of all the 3 world peoples here our birth rate is growing much to our dismay as we have too pay the bill now and later again when
there kids stare having kids

right know the avarage age is 16

Brazil pays public school teachers about 300 dollars a month. The total neglect of the public school system creates an uneducated lower class without much chance of improving one's standard of living. The federal government has done next to nothing to hel the public schools even under Lula who cliams to be of the "Workers Party."

The Lula government also pays the police dirt wages of about 250 dollars a month for recruits. Notice the striking police in Rio recently. Time to spend more money on education and security...

I am sure that my friend Robert Handen don't know anything about my coutry.... If I were he i would first of all search in good and confiable websites pages, and than yes, comment anything.
He told that a teacher of the public area here in Brazil earn about 300 dollars a month. haha, I'd like to know how could a teacher that spent 4 or 5 years in a university ( don't talking about the especializations) would agree in work 8 or 10 hours a day to get about 300 dollars... to be honesty a hight teacher here in Brazil earn about 1500 dollars a month in the public area, it's more than enouth to have a good quality of life. I am not defending the public schools or the salary that the governement give to the teachers, I'm just doing a observation in the very wrong data that our friend has published.
And about the police he's very wrong alsoo, but this discursion would take all our day.

to be honesty a hight teacher here in Brazil earn about 1500 dollars a month in the public area, it's more than enough to have a good quality of life.

Please do send me the list of schools that pay 1500 dollars a month for the teachers. I am willing to offer the schools a 10% discount and teach the kids English,Maths,Physics and Managerial sciences too (working for just 6 hours a day)

Aecio, you must be the governor of MG to come out with this kind of info.

As a Brazilian social philosopher who has been thinking about these complex problems for a while, I think Zimmermann's article was very relevant and extremely helpful to try to make sense of this whole mess. Most responses and comments just confirm this: Brazilian governors have not invested in public education and safety as they should, and the population unfortunately remains immersed in a collective, self-deceptive pathos of indifference.

There is no way to solve the problem unless you rounded up all the criminals and incinerated them from N. and S. - since that is not ever going to happen because of human rights and the risk of killing the innocent in the process, Brazil and other countries will continue to suffer the plague of having cold blooded criminals in society. As long as they exist, the problems will exist. It's that simple. Eliminate the cause of the problem and those who cause the problems and society can be back to normal. It's like a virus. It grows, multiplies and starts to cause damage. Not until the viruses are eliminated can the body return to normal health. If there was away to ship all hard-core criminals into the middle of Africa or to an island somewhere and leave them all there, societies could possibly live better. Maybe in the future, that will be the way societies will react to the trouble makers. Until then, we will get sick and tired of reading about these losers killing innocent people and multiplying like c**kroaches, which is what they are. Whenever societies allow c**kroaches to grow and multiple, this is the result to be expected.

The Brasil is country of impunity.O Brasil é o pais da impunidade infelizmente vivo nesse pais.

I'm totally with you. Only those who live here in Brazil can tell how the situation here really looks! Brazil is much more about crime and impunity than soccer and Carnival! Here in the state where I live in we have, now, 20 homicides per weekend on average! Criminals do their robbing and kiling even close to police stations.