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Calling US Hypocrite Is Not the Best Way for Brazil to Save the Amazon PDF Print E-mail
Written by Jared Ritvo   
Tuesday, 26 August 2008 21:01

Amazon burned for pastureOn July 21, 2008, a researcher from the  Council on Hemispheric Affairs (COHA) met with the Brazilian ambassador to Washington, Antonio de Aguiar Patriota, and his consular official for environmental and energy issues, Neil Benevides. Their purpose was to discuss a recent publication by the Council on Brazilian government policy concerning the Amazon.

At the meeting, the ambassador stated that, as a successful democracy, Brazil's policy decisions are dictated by the desires of its electorate. The Brazilian people, he maintained, have demonstrated their concerns regarding the conservation of the Amazon and their government has responded by formulating policies which aim to conserve the rainforest.

The Ambassador expressed misgivings about COHA's analysis, which maintained that the Brazilian government's newly elaborated conservation policy was in response to international pressure to end deforestation. It is conceivable, however, that the Brazilian electorate's wish to see an end to deforestation is rooted in international influence and the electorate is, as a result, placing pressure on Brasília.

Either way, it is apparent that a majority of the Brazilian electorate, as well as much of the international community, wish to see an end to deforestation and that Brasília has taken positive steps to begin to mitigate the problem. Nevertheless, it must be said that the primary Brazilian government initiative for the region, the Plan for a Sustainable Amazon (PAS), has focused too heavily on self-defeating economic development projects, while ostensibly also promoting conservation.

As was discussed on the occasion of the embassy meeting, the Brazilian government has a considerable dilemma on its hands; it needs to both develop the economy of the Amazon for the region's 25 million inhabitants, while simultaneously preserving the vital forest mantle. According to the ambassador, the best way to do this is to discuss both development and conservation programs with the local population.

The ambassador stressed the importance of cooperation, transparency and open dialogue concerning the issue on both the national and international level. His willingness to discuss Amazon policy with think tanks such as COHA is proof of the Lula government's desire to work towards a constructive dialogue on this matter.

Over the course of the meeting, it became clear that the Brazilian government seeks the support of the international community in designing development projects within the region. One of these is a proposed carbon credits scheme. The potential means to preserve the rainforest and to gain support for the fair trade of biological resources extracted from the area was outlined in a 2006 document issued by the Brazilian Ministry of the Environment, titled "The Amazon and Brazilian Development":

In order for the efforts Brazil is undertaking to create an environment in the Amazon that respects local populations and that aims to conserve environmental and biological attributes, to the benefit of the entire planet, it is necessary that the international community adopts a consistent attitude to support the structural initiatives the country advocates. And these are initiatives that Brazil does not undertake alone, but together with the countries that hold the largest remaining rainforests of the world.

It is, above all, necessary for developed countries to support efforts to create an international regime of access to biodiversity resources, with fair remuneration of local populations who hold traditional knowledge associated to [sic.] this biodiversity, being negotiated under the Convention on Biological Diversity (CDB).

Another initiative deserving international attention was proposed by Brazil, Papua New Guinea and Costa Rica to the Climate Convention: the creation of a mechanism for economic compensation for the efforts to reduce the loss of rain forests, that is, maintaining standing forests, and the ensuing reduction of CO2 emissions in the atmosphere, a greenhouse gas.

International support for this type of measure is decisive for consolidating the efforts that countries such as Brazil are undertaking, even with severe economic restrictions. This support is an effective and consistent demonstration that the developed nations are really committed to contributing to the preservation of rain forests and ensuring global environmental benefits.

Lula and Sovereignty

Despite the aforementioned desire of the Brazilian government to increase international cooperation concerning the combating of deforestation, President Lula continues to make statements asserting Brazilian authority over the Amazon region. On August 1st, 2008, he said "Brazil certainly will assume all of the responsibilities for preservation of the Amazon, because we want to assume sovereignty over our territory. There are a lot of people abroad that speak about the Amazon as if they are its owner. We are conscious of what the Amazon represents for humanity and for Brazil and that destroying it would be against our country and our products."

Clearly, and rightfully, Lula finds much of the international criticism pejorative. Somehow, he suggests, the international community has developed an attitude that does not respect Brazilian authority over the region. However, such sparring impedes effective conservation. An avenue must be devised by which the international community can help Brazil address the problem without impinging on Brazil's sovereignty.

A nettled Lula further stated, "It has been a long time since the Kyoto protocol was signed and there is a country that tries to give Brazil a lesson but hasn't even signed the protocol." This statement clearly suggests the undeniable hypocrisy of the United States' policy.

Although Lula is justified in pointing out this double-standard, again, arguing this point is not exactly constructive. This argument is exemplary of U.S.-Brazil ties that are continuing to rift. Unfortunately for the Amazon's - and the planet's - well-being, this relationship cannot progress as it is.

The next U.S. president must move to heal this situation. Signing the Kyoto Protocol would take some of the hypocrisy out of U.S. policy. With it signed, the U.S. would be in a better position to assist Brazil in solving its Amazonian dilemma.

Presently, there are many international critics who look at the Amazon issue as being separate from greater environmental issues. Lula and other Brazilians see Amazon policy as part of a more comprehensive environmental policy that, with the increased use of sugarcane ethanol, needs to be reviewed.

Washington and the various international institutions collaborating with Brazilian authorities in developing Brazil's Amazon policy must see the issue on the Brazilian government's terms as well as their own. The Amazon is only one part of Brasília's environmental policy and Washington must better its own environmental policy to give it traction when speaking to the world on an issue that deeply affects the troubled steward of the Amazon.

Deter

One of the Brazilian government's most effective and progressive strategies of the last decade was the founding of Deter in 2004. The project - a real-time satellite imaging of the Amazon which tracks deforestation activity - was undertaken by Inbe, the Brazilian government's space program. This initiative has increased the flow of information concerning rates of destruction of the rainforest while allowing the Brazilian government to more effectively combat this illegal activity.

The ambassador referenced Brazil's ethanol program as an example of his country's positive environmental record. The program annually saves the equivalent of the carbon emissions Norway produces per year, by using highly efficient sugarcane ethanol to fuel automobiles instead of fossil fuels.

Some environmentalists have raised serious questions concerning the environmental impact of Brazil's ethanol program, claiming that the increase in sugarcane production is actually causing deforestation in the Amazon. They argue that increased sugarcane production in the Southeast of the country is forcing cattle and soybean production to relocate to the Amazon region.

In response to this relocation thesis, Consular Benevides referred to a report from the Brazilian government entitled, "Ethanol and the Environment," stating that there is a vast quantity of unused arable land in Brazil. The amount of unused arable land, however, is uncertain, as the document provides two different and conflicting sets of statistics. The document also provides figures from two different periods of time, although this is not explicitly stated.

In the first half the document, the current area being used for cultivation is 66 million hectares (out of a total of 320 million hectares of arable land in the country). This leaves 254 million hectares of arable land unused. However, it is unclear from the study whether this 254 million hectare figure includes forested land.

Also, of the 66 million hectares currently used for agriculture in Brazil, 7 million are utilized for sugarcane, and, of that, 3.7 million is used for the production of ethanol. This figure indicates that slightly more than 5% of the total acreage cultivated in the country is used for ethanol.

If this data is accurate, and 254 million hectares of land are indeed available, this provides compelling evidence that ethanol production does not bring on deforestation, as sugarcane grown for ethanol uses a very small percentage of Brazil's available arable land. A logical development plan would allocate any increased demand for ethanol and other crops to make use of this 254 million hectares of available land.

As further evidence that ethanol production is not causing deforestation, the document states that 83% of the crop's cultivation is concentrated in the Center-South of the country, far from the Amazon. The Northeast region produces the second largest amount of sugarcane at 16.5% and less than 0.4% is currently produced in the North region (or Amazônia).

The first half of the document convincingly makes the case that the increase of sugarcane production for ethanol production does not directly lead to deforestation because it is not "economically competitive" to grow sugarcane in the Amazon region. This is because growing sucrose-rich sugarcane requires a drier environment. Sugarcane cultivation in the extremely rainy climate of the Amazon produces a crop that is bamboo-like and very low in sucrose content.

The second half of this Brasília document, which presumably is based on data collected before the data utilized in the first half of the document, states that 5.3 million hectares of land are currently being used to grow sugarcane, with 4.2 million hectares of this terrain located in the Southeast and Center-West regions of the country.

The document estimates that 10 percent of cultivated land in the country is occupied by sugarcane. A total of 62 million hectares are currently being cultivated by all crops in Brazil, with another 100 million hectares estimated to be available for farming without cutting down any virgin forests.

Again, it is uncertain regarding exactly how much land is available for the expansion of agriculture, because two different sets of figures are provided by the documents. The lower estimation stresses that there are at least 100 million hectares available which, theoretically, would provide nearly double the amount of land now in use for increased agriculture.

This un-forested land, which is presumably located in savannah regions of Central Brazil, and which, presumably, is suitable for sugarcane cultivation should - if these figures are correct - be more than enough land for both the expansion of sugarcane cultivation and the increase in cultivation of other crops and products deemed essential by experts.

Marina Silva's Resignation

The resignation of Minister of the Environment, Marina Silva, was also discussed at the Brazilian embassy meeting. According to the ambassador, Silva quit after a long, six-year tenure in order to return to the Senate, where she formerly held office, because she believes she can be more effective in promoting her pro-environment beliefs in that venue.

The ambassador also noted that her replacement, Carlos Minc, is a strong environmentalist, even though his previous experience was working for the state of Rio de Janeiro, and thus he has no particular ties to the Amazon region.

His statement about Silva seems counter-intuitive. Minister Silva was frustrated with her failed attempts to conserve the Amazon - a view shared by Brazilian and international news sources.

The Brazilian government's efforts towards transparency and its desire to cooperate with the international community for a solution to the Amazon paradox - in spite of arguments made for sovereignty over the region - must be applauded.

The government has taken important steps towards conservation of the Amazon rainforest and has compelling evidence to prove that its sugarcane ethanol program is not contributing deforestation. If a judgment must be made, PAS (Plan for a Sustainable Amazon), favors economic development over environmental conservation.

Although the Brazilian government is certainly justified in seeking to provide economic opportunities for an otherwise impoverished region, economic development must be addressed with the utmost concern for environmental conservation.

Finally, the Lula government must guard against the crushing influence of the country's agribusiness and development interests, which caused the weariness that led to Marina Silva's resignation in the first place.

This analysis was prepared by COHA Research Fellow Jared Ritvo. The Council on Hemispheric Affairs (COHA) - www.coha.org - is a think tank established in 1975 to discuss and promote inter-American relationship. Email: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

Comments (76)Add Comment
Plan for a Sustainable Amazon
written by Forrest Allen Brown, August 26, 2008
favors economic development over environmental conservation.

will not work under present brazilian form of government

meddling .

it will be hang the gringoes it is there fault
dont you know
Trees? We don' need no steenkin' trees...
written by Macunaima, August 26, 2008
In the words of the immortal Glauco Mattoso, if we were a serious country, we would have already paved that f**king forest and there'd be no reason for gringos to cry out their eyes over it.
The reality is....
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, August 27, 2008
It is time for the native indians in Brazil to be assimilated into the Brazilian population.

We are in the 21st century and it is time to end indian reservations in Brazil.

.
RA the worst thing you have ever said
written by Forrest Allen Brown, August 27, 2008
So in your eyes
it would be okay for the united states to tell all peoples that live in its
borders that they have to speak English , toss off there Cuban , Mexican , french , German , Russian, and on and on cultures
and adopt that of the US .
to have to live by our laws , never to speak there native tong .

and there would be no Brazil day in new york , no cinco da mayo .
no st Patrick's day , no may day ,no quinza ,

just wipe out the total culture of the past as you are the conquer
and what you say goes .

not even your grate savior China has done that in 3000 years ,
the Communist did not do it in 60 years .
South Africa tyred it and it did not work
so tell me as to why Brazil should do it .?
...
written by Ric, August 27, 2008
Neither has Iran been able to eradicate the Persian memory and the openness under the Shah.

But the title of this story suggests that there may be several ways to save the Amazon, but blaming the USA may not be the best way.

The reality is that there is no way to save the Amazon.


Reply to Forest
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, August 27, 2008
It is nothing wrong with the Brazilian native indians celebrating their ancestor heritage.

They can have fairs, museums, and stores to sell their indian awares.

You did mention about about Brazilians celebrating Brazilian day in New York - but I am not aware of any Brazilian group around here trying to set a Brazilian nation inside the US territory.

I never said that the Brazilian native indians would not be allowed to celebrate their heritage and ancestors.

Many groups celebrate their family heritage in Brazil - the Italians, the Germans, the Japanese, and so on....But none of these groups are trying to set up their own nation inside Brazilian territory.

The native Brazilian indians don't want to allow even the Brazilian Army inside their territory. They want create their new independent nation and make deals directly with major international corporations and make a ton of money.

This entire thing it is not about protecting the environment and the culture of the Brazilian native indians. It is about greed and about people who are manipulating these Brazilian indians with the purpose of making a monetary killing with the resources that belongs to Brazil.

.





Reply to Ric
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, August 27, 2008
You said: "Neither has Iran been able to eradicate the Persian memory and the openness under the Shah."

Nobody is trying to eradicate the culture or memory of anybody.

The indians can continue living as they are and celebrating their culture.
They can make objects to sell to tourists, and they can continue teaching their children about their ancestors.

Bu the way, the Incas, the Mayans, and the Astecas continue teaching the new generation about their proud heritage, but they are not trying to set up a new nation inside, Peru or Mexico.

.



...
written by ..., August 27, 2008
Ricardo, have you temporarily lost control of your senses??? A line of arguement not worthy of you!
RA
written by Forrest Allen Brown, August 27, 2008
the indains in the US have there own business .

casinos , cigrets stores ,
and the police and army dont go on there land .

one would just have to write the rules as to what they are are able to do .

and now you want not to let the indains make money eather !!!
only brasilians can have the right to make money .
by farming cutting trees that dont belong to them .

for the politicans to run things or the rich brasilians whom use them as slave laubor .

look to the past remember the rubber barons and how many indans they killed to build the opra house in manous and belem ???

were they ever compansated for that !!!
look at the land they lost and still are loseing

you want them to be the new dirt poor house cleaners
baby sitters , street cleaners .
or selling trinkets and trash on the streets .
...
written by A Brazilian, August 27, 2008
The "ethnic nation" concept is the new segregationism.
Reply to Forest
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, August 27, 2008
In Brazil today we still have an estimated 250,000 native indians - but for all practical purposes they are Brazilian citizens since they were born inside the Brazilian territory.

The black who born in Brazil are considered Brazilians and not Africans.

Do you think that the Africans also have the right to take a piece of Brazil and call it their new nation?

.
Reply to Forest - correction
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, August 27, 2008
Today, in Brazil we still have an estimated 250,000 native indians - but for all practical purposes they are Brazilian citizens since they born inside the Brazilian territory.

The blacks who born in Brazil are considered Brazilians and not Africans.

Do you think that the Blacks born in Brazil also have the right to take a piece of Brazil and call it their new nation based on their African heritage?

The Africans who came to Brazil as slaves have been assimilated into the Brazilian population and we don't put them in separate reservations for descendants of black slaves.

.
...
written by a brazilian, August 27, 2008
Actually, I've thought a bit more about it and I now realize that the only way I can ever be happy is to get in touch with my African roots, unfairly stripped from my identity by the racist-apartheid system which is Brazil.
...
written by Friends number 1, August 27, 2008
Well done Ricardo C. Amaral!!!!!
Please don't follow the Yanks
written by John Cox, August 27, 2008
All this bickering from Lula makes him sound like an American politician. We all know that our home, Earth is in trouble. It doesn't matter if the Amazon is Brazilian or Russian, we all have a right to live. Come on Brazil sort you act out.
lets face it......
written by ch.c., August 28, 2008
the most hypocrites are the Brazilians.

A) For years they pretend to have 100 millions hectares of degraded land and that they dont need to cut 1 tree any more. They LIE of course.
B) Brazil always say foreign nations should not meddle in the Amazon since it belongs to Brazil. they LIE of course. The Amazon is covered by at least 7 others nations.
C) Brazil pretended to have increased the size of the protected Amazon. Welll everyone said yesssssss because grains prices were low. Bin the Liar said there was no connection. Welllllll........deforestation increased sharply again since grains prices shoot up. Meaning Bin the Crook lied as usual. And you still have these 100 millions hectares of degraded land where you did next to NOTHING !!!!!
D)Brazilians pretends the Amazon belongs to them but wants other nations to foot the bill of US$ 20 billion !!!!! Wellll....if the Amazon is yours....YOU pay !
E) Of course these US$ 20 billion were for Brazil ONLY, and NOT for the other countries covering the Amazon !
F) Bin the Crook announced a few months ago that most of the deforestattion was made by foreigners. Of course just another lie.
G) Bin the Crook also announced that most of the amazon was acquired by foreigners. Wellll....just another lie on top of all the others !

Wellll that is cheating, lying and hiding. A real SCAM !
Brazilians are just insane. Brazil is tghe world largest Tropical Mud and so are the brains of their citizens starting by the one they elected twice ! Gangsters go very well along with other gangsters !
Just look at the corruption level, in the Planalto, in the states and in municipalities. There is even corruption in jails and in ALL judicial courts including the World reknown Brazilian Supreme Court of Total Injustice.
Furthermore on KYOTO protocol :
written by ch.c., August 28, 2008
what a joke !
Most signatory countries, emerging or developed, have already confirmed they wont reach the goal they signed.
Better yet, the EMERGING nations are even UNWILLING to make an effort and a commitment for 2050.

Therefore having signed the Kyoto accord or not.....DOESNT CHANGE A CENTAVO !

Another proof that Brazil is referring to something that has no basis !
RA
written by Forrest Allen Brown, August 28, 2008
Unlike the blacks that were taken from there homeland by force of gun.
and only let go after many years of work and no pay .

the indains were here before the sails were set for the new world then they were killed off or enslaved , given land but no choice in the matter ,why it was take away for profit by brasilians , for there own people , so why should not the indains be given free will over there lands , the fishermen in brazil just put up a few sticks on the beach and it is theres,the king granted his buddies land that was indan land ,
LULA does the same thing in his term the AMAZON has lost more trees to slash and burn than in the past other two terms .

and as far as the indains not wanting the military or police in there lands look at how many of there women have been raped by your military , how many men killed defending what is there homes ,

the gold miners kill them , police kill them , the goverment take away there land , and now you want to take away there way of life !!!!!!!!!!!

will you pay to educate them ?
give them medical help ?
jobs ?
pay them ?

because we all know the goverment will not .
and others will exploite them for there own gains.
...
written by Macunaima, August 28, 2008
You did mention about about Brazilians celebrating Brazilian day in New York - but I am not aware of any Brazilian group around here trying to set a Brazilian nation inside the US territory.


The CRUCIAL difference here, Ricardo, is that Brazilians have no prior existing claim to U.S. lands, nor a prior existance as a socio-political unit within said lands.

Indians are not immigrants: they were HERE before Europeans showed up and, both in Brazil and the U.S., tribes which are recognized by the Federal Government have to show that they are indeed descended in a more-or-less unbroken line from those original political units.

Furthermore, under international law, there is nothing which sets them up as independent nations: they are mostly considered to be domestic dependent nations, i.e. as politicla units equivalent to states within the federal structure.

So your argument that respecting Indian soverignty means setting up independent nations is simply wrong.

Your argument that Indians are somehow comparable to immigrants is simply wrong.

And finally, your argument comparing Indians to Blacks is simply wrong. Black political units descended from escaped slaves in Brazil - quilombos - are also protected as domestic dependent nations by the Brazilian constitution.

So the question here, Ricardo, is are you honestly confused and misinformed or are you cynically trying to manipulate peoples' opinions on this issue by misinforming them?
To Ric and Ricardo !
written by ch.c., August 28, 2008
Ric
Your "The reality is that there is no way to save the Amazon."
My view is that there are ways but Nooooo will from Brazilians !

Ricardo ¨
Your "The black who born in Brazil are considered Brazilians and not Africans."
Somewhat laughable ! Since when do they have the same education/health/housing rights than the non blacks Brazilians ?
Why few Brazilians blacks are even in the middle class let alone rich ? Same in the political scene of the country ! Including in your actual government. Ohhh sure they were given 2 "not so important jobs" : Sports Minister and Arts Minister. What else with more substance ?
You see Ricardo the more you write the more I am inclined to believe that you went to the same University as your real father : Bin the Crook !
Ricardo can you hear me ?
Yessss to what University went Bin the Crook ?
smilies/cheesy.gif

And as him being your real father, you certainly have the same types of genes and traits : born idiot,stayed idiot, will die idiot !
smilies/angry.gif
RA
written by Forrest Allen Brown, August 28, 2008
did you look at the pic for this

do you think that indan did the slash and burn for food or fun . or was it a brazilian soy farmer , cattle driver , tree cutter that did this.

rember a few months ago when there was a brazlian selling gold leases of the the higest bidder , that he did not even own but was selling any way .
the brazilian goverment was looking into it , not another word said about that. but it was on indain land !!
the brazilian Soy farmer that has cut another 1800 hectors more than he bought , but is still farming it , indan land again
the list goes no and on .

it looks like as long as you are a crook you can do business in brasilian , BUT if you are an native indan people are aposed to you trying to better yourself and your tribe !!!

brazilians and the US alike need to sit back and fire very politican we have and start anew but with the publick in charge of major spending and our lands
to sum it up
written by Shelly1, August 29, 2008
The Kyoto is a joke.
U.S. environmental laws under Bush is a joke,
Brazilian politicians are a joke,
The politicians don't give a s**t about anyone...that's no joke!
China becoming the next giant, that's a joke (watch out for Vietnam. Intel has found cheaper labor and has opened a brand new factory there. The Chinese are selling themselves out of the market and more companies don't want to deal with environmental issues in China.

Brazil becoming a super-power...that is a joke!


You and and I are mere peons in a field.



Shelly1 "U.S. environmental laws under Bush is a joke, "
written by ch.c., August 29, 2008
May be not so after all !

- The USA have not built one oil refinery, not one nuclear power plant in over 30 years. Why....in your opinion ?
- In 1 to 3 years China will pollute more the USA despite it will still have a fraction of the USA GDP !
- Brazil is building 4 more new refineries, one very large in Maranho...an Amazon state.Hmmmm !
- Better yet....Petrobras chief Gabrielli stated "so that Brazil could export refined products to.....the USA !!!!
- Somewhat similar in Russia !

It is not so much different in the EU ! They import refined products while they definitely have the technology & money to build refineries.

Lets face it : that is what Globalization is. The developed nations will over time have less pollution while many emerging nations will be drown under THEIR pollution. Read the news : China already started. Russia too, years ago with their nuclear arsenal rusting and not taken care, their pipelines leaking oil, their pipelines holed by thieves to get some free oil ! Many chemicals plants leaking their products.

In most of these countries there is very very very little waste & sewage water treatments.

Finally the only reason the USA did not sign the Kyoto protocol was because if was NOT based on pollution per output ! Totally unfair. No emerging nations have to reduce their pollution under the protocol. Only developed nations. Re-read what will shortly happen in China : more pollution than the USA despite having a fraction of the USA GDP !!!!

Viva the Globalization ! So good for the developed nations and that is what the idiots in the emerging nations beg for !!!!!

smilies/wink.gif
waters in most countries are far past help
written by Forrest Allen Brown, August 30, 2008
conservation with proper economic guide lines is possible.

only if the rules are fallowed by all , and the time is now for all of us to make

our selves and the powers at be do the right thing .

200.000 square miles of the amazon are gone, and the money made off the

cutting of trees are gone into the pockets of many who have nothing to loose

if they clear cut the forest of the world .

they are wrong !!! but don't care as the money made by instance self gratification

is more important to them ,

16 % of the wood cut in the US is in tree farms , mostly in the southern states .

cut a tree plant 2 , not just the soft woods but the hard woods also.
they are the ones that take so long to grow .

over 60.000 of the tall stand red woods in the US were cut before the turn of the 19 century

that is when the US stop ed the whole sale cutting of all Forest in the US and set guide lines for

all the fallow both Indians and others , same as fishing , farming , minning.

...
written by ..,, August 30, 2008
Macu you gringo diseased dog in need of putting down, stop sniffing the hinds of vira latas in hopes of finding a partner uglier and more repulsive than you.

Next time you shave, secure the straight razor to your neck and take one hard step closer to the mirror. Too bad A Brazilian is beating your ass all over this forum. Here's a hint, when you have a point to get to, try not boring us to death getting there.

Lova ya

he he he

Costa...
...
written by .., August 30, 2008
Has anyone heard from August? If so, please remind him that he has just two days to go under this name.
...
written by .., August 30, 2008
Viva the Globalization ! So good for the developed nations and that is what the idiots in the emerging nations beg for !!!!!


This commentator makes lots of sense. smilies/cheesy.gif
To Costa "stop sniffing the hinds of vira latas "
written by ch.c., August 30, 2008
Did you mean Vira Latinas ?
...
written by hope, August 30, 2008
hey your maniacs wake up! the brazilians are just like u all, stop with this conspiracy theories we're all humans, stop it, stop separatin' yourselves by country we're all humans and we all live in this f**kin' planet and stop killin' yourselves in this f**kin' blog by an f**kin forest and united yourselves to do what is right, save this f**kin' world not only amazon! stop infectin' the world with these gas with yours f**kin' cars yours f**kin' factories. stop hate yours similar.
BBC TODAY
written by Forrest Allen Brown, August 31, 2008
said that the brazilian government
said that from AUG 2007 to AUG 2008
only 3.143 square miles of the amazon were cut this year !!!!!

most people of the world and just a hand full of brazilians know
that the amazon has around 2.000 fish and other marine only found in the
rio nerigo and amazon
would it not be grate not to kill them off for money !!!!!
...
written by Ric, August 31, 2008
Calling the US Hypocrite may not be the best was to save The Amazon, but it may have other benefits.

It sure feels good to do it.

It provides an outlet to deal with internal conflict and self doubts.

If one lives in a three story Brazilian walkup, one can´t very well scream and break thing for Anger Management.

Maybe posting rage on this site instead of acting it out keeps Coastie/Costinha from being arrested or evicted. If so, more tower poo him.
Laugh...laughhhh...laugh.... !!!!
written by ch.c., August 31, 2008
To Forrest "BBC said that from AUG 2007 to AUG 2008
only 3.143 square miles of the amazon were cut this year !!!!! "
But you did not said it correctly :

"Amazon deforestation jumped 69 percent in the past 12 months - the first such increase in three years - as rising demand for soy and cattle pushes farmers and ranchers to raze trees, officials said Saturday.
Some 8,147 square kilometers (3,145 square miles) of forest were destroyed between August 2007 and August 2008 - a 69 percent increase over the 4,820 square kilometers (1,861 square miles) felled in the previous 12 months, according to the National Institute for Space Research, or INPE, which monitors destruction of the Amazon. We're not content, Environment Minister Carlos Minc said. Deforestation has to fall more and the conditions for sustainable development have to improve."
Then in the same article " The country lost 2.7 percent of its Amazon rain forest in 2007, or 11,000 square kilometers (4,250 square miles). Environmental officials fear even more land will be razed this year - but they have not forecast how much."



Hmmmmmm !

Then what have we heard time and again from the Brazilian government cheaters and liars " "It's not necessary to cut a single tree to produce soy or raise cattle, Stephanes said. There's plenty of land outside of the Amazon to increase the production of soy and beef."

Until 2 years ago the estimated degraded pasture published 1000 times was at 100 millions hectares. Recently I have seen some brazilians estimates at 190 millions hectares or nearly twice as much in just 2 years. JUST IMPOSSIBLE !!!!

Lets face it, Brazilian stats contradict Brazilian stats time and again.

Finally why do Brazilians ALWAYS repeat the Amazin belongs to Brazil, when 7 or 8 other countries also cover the Amazon ????

Hey hey wake up ! Talk about the Brazilian Amazon not THE Amazon....until you invaded all other countries !!!!


smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
Furthermore...to Joao ....
written by ch.c., August 31, 2008
I recall perfectly how you loved so much Minc because he did some of his University at La Sorbonne in Paris !!!!!!
Short Memory Joao ? Not me !smilies/wink.gif

Hmmmmmmmmm ! At times you are not very clever. Every new official gang member has to follow the rules and the laws of the gangs chiefs governing the country "promises dont cost much, not deliver the promises cost even less"
smilies/wink.gif

It is like reading time and again Brazil has the historical lowest interests rates (forgetting to add...but still the World Highest or Second Highest rates after inflation !!!!!
Or reading time and again of your lowest interests rates on record (forgetting to add... but still at 33 % to buy a car, 55 % for consumers goods and 163 % for overdrafts....at a time of a 4 to 6,5 % inflation)

Viva Brazil, Hurrah for His Highness Robin Crook the only one taking from the majority of poors and giving to the minority of riches.

Applaude HIM, applaude HIS lieutenants.
HE may as well be a candidate for a 3rd term, or take a 4 years vacation. When the results of his policies will finally surface he could come back as a EMPEROR...next time in 2014 !
Has he not already proclaimed in His public statements "No one but God could have been better for Brazil" ?????
Guess what : he was applauded by millions and millions of ignorants and by a few thousands belonging to the minority elite !
Ch.c
written by João da Silva, August 31, 2008
I recall perfectly how you loved so much Minc because he did some of his University at La Sorbonne in Paris !!!!!!
Short Memory Joao ? Not me !


Don´t be cruel,Ch.c! When Carlos Baumfeld Minc was appointed to replace Marina, you suspected that he found his degree in a detergent pack. I was quick to inform you and all other distinguished bloggers in this site that he was indeed a graduate of Sorbonne, the famous European temple of wisdom . Also recommended that he was getting his "on the job training" (from you know whom!) and we should give time before starting to evaluate his performance.

Now we know that within a short period of time, he has accomplished many outstanding things, one of which is the signing of the contract to build dams across Rio Madeira to prevent the annual flooding of that region!

Sorbonne should be proud of its alumnus smilies/cheesy.gif

HE may as well be a candidate for a 3rd term, or take a 4 years vacation. When the results of his policies will finally surface he could come back as a EMPEROR...next time in 2014 !


You must be a direct descendant of Nostradamus. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
Ch.c
written by João da Silva, August 31, 2008
Further more:

Forgot to remind (as well as admonish) you that we have a Harvard law professor who is the father of PAS.

Let me assure you that the destiny of the Brazilian Amazon is in the capable hands of Sorbonne and Harvard alumni. Hence I am not worried and nor should you be about the future of our rain forest. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
...
written by Neto, September 01, 2008
Why are you discussing about a Brazilian territory, in English, as if it was your business? I'd love to discuss about the Grand Canyon, the Colorado river, and many other Unitedstatasian's territories, in Portuguese, acting as if they were ours. Why don't you mind your own things, focus on your decadent country and its upcoming fate of falling apart? Or you can keep on arguing about Amazonia, but you may miss the wave... Oh, that would be so sad... Maybe discuss about Russia's 6.000 nuclear missiles, or about the tragedy of every intervention USA has made in any country in the world, specially Latin America countries. Just grow up, see around e be aware of how absurd you sound when speaking of Amazonia, or any other Brazilian issue. I guess you don't like USA at all, because you spend your precious time in this marvelous land of opportunities talking about Brazil! Why is that? I'd say that USA economy is too weak to maintain itself as a country, and needs us, needs Amazonia, needs the world in order to survive. If USA is so nice, and Brazil is so horrible, why do you spend time talking about it? Go eat pancakes, or fry your brains with bacon eggs.
...
written by Thaddeus Blanchette, September 02, 2008
Go eat pancakes, fry your brains with bacon eggs.


This moment of surreality was brought to you by the number 25 and the letters "L", "S" and "D".
Ch.C
written by Shelly1, September 02, 2008
The US and China business relationship is like co-joint twins sharing one hip- one cannot walk without the other! Americans like to purchase cheep goods, while turning their face away to environmental degradation in China. Let's see if the Chinese decided to raise wages, what do you think it would happen? American businessman would find another country willing to pollute its water, its citizens, etc.

I think is totally unfair to expect developing countries to share the burden, Europe, the US and Japan, should pay the price for causing environmental degradation not only in their country, but also around the world. Read about Natural Resources Law, the books are filled with historic accounts of European degradation of ecosystem, moving from one place to the next because they didn't see the resources as finite.

Get off you high-horse, you are being a hypocrite!

Ch.C
written by Shelly1, September 02, 2008
If you want to discuss environmental issues, let's do it. But let's be fair and equitable. I believe Brazil is going on a wrong path, being in the field, I can see that some of the policies will come to hunt us later on.

I am for "sustainable growth" whatever that maybe-that are economic theories explaining that environmental conservation and economic growth will forever be at odds. People still need to make a living, but when it comes to the Amazon, a complex ecosystem, how do you judge sustainability? How many deforested hectares is sustainable? How about loss of biodiversity, do you put a value on wildlife?

Brazil needs to invest heavily in renewable energy and/or combine clean energy with current energy programs. It takes years to change energy dependency on oil, but we need to start walking and fast. We all worry about CO2, but what about Nitrogen? Not the un-reactive type, but the reactive which is deep down under the permafrost, and once it gets sunlight, it will be worse than current CO2 levels. We pollute our rivers, streams, and it goes unnoticed. The dead zone in the Gulf is greater this year than before. Farmers continue to dump tons of nitrogen in the soil, hoping to bump the crops a notch higher (when you learn about how nitrogen gets into the digestive system of a cow, you soon realize how little it does to the overall health of the animal). Reactive Nitrogen is the silent greenhouse gas and Brazil is going to pay a heavy price for its decision to open the Amazon forest to cattle and agriculture.

We are going to see in our lifetime the extinction of the polar bears, walruses and other animals. Civilizations have risen and perished. There is a consensus (and scientific proof) amongst anthropologists that civilizations that have no land management practice and exploited its natural resources perished or diminished considerable. If you want to find out more about this topic, look at the South Argolid, look at the Easter Island and the Chaco Island(once a high thriving culture, turned into warriors and cannibals-do you wonder why?). Try to find out about the correlation between these three places-all were once lush, green and thriving ecosystem, I will give you a hing, the secret lies in the soil analysis.

We should learn from our past, "the past is never dead" (William Faulkner).
Ch.C
written by Shelly1, September 02, 2008
Is Chaco Canyon...I changed things and didn't delete the Island...
...
written by Shelly1, September 02, 2008
South Argolid, look at the Easter Island and the Chaco Island(once a high thriving culture, turned into warriors and cannibals-do you wonder why?)
.

I meant to change the order of things a bit, the South Argolid, look at Easter Island (once a high thriving culture, turned into warriors and cannibals-do you wonder why?) and the Chaco Canyon....

yo neto...if im not mistaken ,ch c is not american
written by asp, September 02, 2008
the one guy that has the most devastating statistics , if im not mistaken , is not american. for sure he doesnt live in america
...
written by observer, September 02, 2008
Ch C is Swiss
To Shelly, Neto the idiot and asp !
written by ch.c., September 02, 2008
Shelly Chérie : your "I believe Brazil is going on a wrong path"
- wellll....we agree somewhat : I am certain !
And your China/Brazil relation is somewhat very strange. Just look at the overall trade between these 2 countries in the context of their overall trade. A drop in the ocean...for both countries. Therefore let me smile, smile and smile !
Fact is China will be economically drown if the USA and Europe refuse to have their trade deficits with China. But we are quite happy that globalization has also exported POLLUTION

Neto the idiot : YOUR "Why are you discussing about a Brazilian territory, in English"
- to my knowledge the article was written in English
- to my knowledge 99 % of the comments in this site are in English on all subjects, mostly on Brazil.
- if you disagree why dont you go away, biut certainly not answer as you did in English to talk about the Brazilian territory.
- YOU ARE A REAL JUNKIE & IDIOT !

And to the other junkie ASP :
Not only I am Swiss, but Switzerland has been ranked WORLD FIRST FOR ENVIRONMENT....wether you like or not !
Therefore many Brazilians should better copy what we do and how we do ! That would be great.....not only for planet earth but also for your body and mental health !But it has a cost you are NOT willing to pay to stay competitive.
In agriculture lets face it, you are a backward country. You are basically using foreign intrants, such as Seeds GM or not, pesticides, fongicides, tractors, harvesters etc etc !

On per hectare productivity : you are .....PFUITTTTT decades backward !
Yess in my country on a per hectare we produce 2 X your potatoes, 2,5 X your corn, and 2 times your wheat (for which you are by the way one the world largest IMPORTER !!!!!)

Ohhhhh and for the ?? time : feel free to boast yourselves with your pride to export US$ 1000.- per capita. Around 25 times LOWER than the per capita of my country.
You see here we are not totally idiot : we import cheap goods and export EXPENSIVE goods ! You do the exact opposite !
You should take courses in economy HERE.
Not over : Brazil is now at their historical HIGH current account DEFICIT ! Welllll my country, year in year out, has 15 % of its GDP in current account SURPLUS. ON YOUR HISTORICAL BEST YEAR YOU NEVER EVER WERE EVEN CLOSE TO 15 % SURPLUS !

Ohhhh and guess who is helping your trade exports ? Mostly foreign companies. Just look at your agricultural production as stated above, plus Cargill, Bunge, Dreyfus, ADM to handle some of your trading and financings, and on your NON Brazilian cars/trucks exports are !

Facts are Brazilians would still live like the Indians...if developed countries did not transfer some of their production capability and technology to YOUR TROPICAL MUD !!!!

Anyway...I keepppppp...LAUGHING.....LAUGHING AND....LAUGHING !!!!


yeah, ch c, except i dont want to live in genvea, ive been there and its boring compared to brazil
written by asp, September 02, 2008
you can have your stiff ass statistics ,there just is something in brazil you all just will never have over there...that is why i have to live here...ive been over to your country on business, i would never pay my ticket there...

laughing really really hard...

and,neto,its some real tired s**t when some ass hole gets all riled up at an american sais, when it isnt even an american...that s**t happens all the f**king time...
To ASP "i dont want to live in genvea, ive been there and its boring compared to brazil"
written by ch.c., September 02, 2008
Wellll feel free.
But saying Geneva live is boring is somewhat ironic !

Geneva is ranked as the World second most liveliest city for several consecutive years.
Just look by yourself, the last ranking put 4 Swiss cities within the first 10.
Absolutely unbeatable.

And if you are talking about girls and nightlife, no problem either.
We have thousands and thousands of really five stars whores coming from all over the world looking for 5 stars....purses !
They are waiting for you if you have what it takes to make them happy !
We even have a few thousands more during the June-August period, to take care for the Arabs tourists.
Wealthy Arabs, sheiks, princes, kings and dictators love to "visit" Geneva a few weeks/months per year with their family.
During the day they are in "business meetings...with escorts girls", have a speedy family dinner, and then of course have more "business meetings"...with other girls.
And during the day, the families love endless shopping...with their limos and drivers !
And outside of the "hot season" we also have so many regular tourists such as wealthy people from around the world, and so many foreign diplomats for UN/WTO/WHO and well over 150 International Agencies & NGOs meetings and conferences.

Ohhhh and believe it or not, yearly, we have the World largest INTERNATIONAL Cars Exhibition...in Geneva !!!!! Another peak period we have a few thousands additional escorts coming here like mosquitos.

And if you are no longer in Geneva, that is great for everyone. We definitely prefer purses when they are full !

The Geneva state, despite having a population of less than 500'000 is shining all over the world, that we dont need to have a marketing budget to increase tourism.
Let me conclude that the liliputian Switzerland has more foreign tourism revenues than the Giant Brazil !

smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
"yeah, ch c, except i dont want to live in genvea, ive been there and its boring compared to brazil"
written by ch.c., September 02, 2008
Somewhat you are right, Brazil is known for :

- High crimes rates and high insecurity
- Cheap whores
- Corruption at all level lof the society, from top to bottom and bottom to top.
- 5 % of paved roads
- little waste water treatment
- A not not so good education (to be polite) for which you ranked YOURSELVES 46th out of 50 !
- Healthcare and hospitals, a true disaster
- Landfills, many in every city or municipality.

Last but not least : youuuu really enjoy paying bank loans rates at 33 % for cars, 55 % for consumers loans and 163 % for overdrafts.
Rates that look like yet to go higher and certainly not lower.

Yesssssss.....Viva Brazil !
smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
dont forget the monteux jazz festival...yeah, ch c, your statistics are amusing, and useful ....
written by asp, September 03, 2008
who knows when i will have to use some of your statistics to shut some fool up...

but, you can say all that in cyber space and on paper, and, it still doesnt change the fact that i would rather be in brazil than your country...and, for sure there is a lot of interesting things and people in your country, but, most of the world is grey compared to what i get out of brazil..

i mean i really am glad that the whore situation is popping there,seriously, its just nice to know that if i ever really needed one, that it is available...just like down here....

its just something else, i cant even put words into it.its like if you like jazz, you can find it everywhere, for sure in europe, but, its just better in new york...or , if i put words to it, someone like you is just going to make a dumb statement about it...and,im talking about my experiances and my preferances. they arnt the same as yours..

efficiancy and prosperity and productivity are wonderful for a country, but, living life is a differant thing. violent cities like rio and recife hold deep deep trasures that can only be found there.i lived in both of those cities and love them , i hate the violence, but, there is something that pulls me that overcomes the fear...i dont buy on credit, so,i dont have to worry about that

dont take it personaly , nothing against your fine country, but,for what i want out of life, its so good in brazil that, ill put up with all those bad statistics you keep stating...
Ch.c roots
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, September 03, 2008
yo neto...if im not mistaken ,ch c is not american.

You are right about that - he is from that illegal money laundering haven called Switzerland.

.
Switzerland just a little country and nothing else.
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, September 03, 2008
Ch.c said; “Not only I am Swiss, but Switzerland has been ranked WORLD FIRST FOR ENVIRONMENT....whether you like or not !”

Big deal since you are from a piss-ass irrelevant little country

(piss-ass = inferior or mediocre in comparison to…)

In Brazil we have people who has farms bigger than your entire little country.

You should compare your little country specialized in money laundering with places such as the States of New Jersey since that would be more appropriate:

Switzerland is a little bigger than the State of New Jersey here in the US in area, and New Jersey has a larger population than Switzerland

Switzerland:

Switzerland GDP (purchasing power parity): $300.2 billion (2007 est.)

GDP - per capita: $41,100 (2007 est.)

Population: 7,581,520 (July 2008 est.)

***

State of New Jersey (USA):

The Bureau of Economic Analysis estimates that New Jersey's total state product in 2006 was $434 billion.

Its per capita personal income in 2004 was $41,636

Population: 8,685,920 (2007 est.)


*****


Brazil

Area: total: 8,511,965 sq km

Population: 200 million


*****


Switzerland

Area: total: 41,290 sq km

Population: 7,581,520 (July 2008 est.)

.
Switzerland's main sources of income
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, September 03, 2008
Ch.c said: "Wealthy Arabs, sheiks, princes, kings and dictators love to "visit" Geneva a few weeks/months per year with their family. During the day they are in "business meetings...with escorts girls", have a speedy family dinner, and then of course have more "business meetings"...with other girls."

*****


I guess besides money laundering the Swiss are also specialized in prostitution.

The country must be run just like a real Mafia.

.


"In Brazil We Have People Who Has Farms Bigger..."
written by Ric, September 03, 2008
Sounds like 1980s era printed instructions on ROC consumer items.

So there are 7.5 million Swiss and 200 million Brasileiros.

But the Swiss GDP is approx. one third of the Brazilian GDP.

Either the Swiss are doing something right, or Brazil is doing something wrong, or all of the above (or none of the above, another factor).
shelly it is more like
written by Forrest Allen Brown, September 03, 2008
being the strate half of co-joint twins sharing one a**hole
and your gay part has met the man of his dreams
and they are going out tonight .

you know it is coming and wont like it but you have to take it to get
along
...
written by Ric, September 03, 2008
You really have a way with words, Forrest.
Forrest
written by Shelly1, September 03, 2008
yes, agree with Ric's note and truly poetic! That was a better way of explaining the US/China relation-I will keep that in mind for the time being smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif
Cappy comes through yet again
written by Simpleton, September 03, 2008
Wondering just what it is the asp can't quite grasp / put his hands on, get out his mouth about his preference of Brazil over Suicalandia. Did he figure out that even with all the the top notch talent making "business" trips to fill the service sector in Switzerland for a bit of time here and there that they usually came back home at others? The difference in the price paid? The fact that with such small percentage doing such "foreign" trade there that there was many many more just the same that stayed home and that there was even a fairly large percentage of the whoers that didn't even charge at all?
they usually came back home at others
written by Ric, September 03, 2008
Yeah, funny he just doesn´t get it. But your above explanation and analysis is really so clear.
drop "s", inject "times"
written by Simpleton, September 04, 2008
before the ? Sorr e Ric, thought the association between "for a bit of TIME" and "OTHERS" was sufficiently strong.
you still dont make sence , simpleton...
written by asp, September 04, 2008
....mmmmmmmmmmmmm lets see now, why would i prefer brazil over switzer land ? first of all,who ever makes up those guide books or polls that puts switzerland at the top, just doesnt think like i do. those polls dont mean anything to me...its kind of a joke

if you love snow sports and the alps, switzerland is your place..but, i love to body surf. ive body surfed in hawai ,bermuda, florida, california, bahamas, and, no where have i had as much fun body surfing than in brazil...the total beach packedge in brazil is the top..

i have had more days in a year that i could call near perfect , in brazil , than anywhere else ive lived...days that have anialated depresion and given me vitality , health and a very high sence of well being.....you cant just buy that. wealth just doesnt define it

i mean south of france is going to have bare breasts,but, that isnt my favorite part of the female anatomy...

south beach, that fio dental might be inside the crack of a male ass...and, sure there are beautiful women there, but, who has the nicest car going down the main beach street is more important... and, that definitly isnt the most improtant thing for me at the beach

yeah yeah, we been through the who has the most beautiful women , but, sorry, in terms of quantity and quality, the beach near where i live , on a good day, has more beautiful women than the miss universe pagaent , or a versace modal runway...the average girl on my beach has more curves than gisele bunchkin...

in terms of female inner cheek symetry comparisons, there is no place on the planet more advanced than brazil

the whole international beauty standards is warped anyway...they set up bony no ass women as the example, a standard no regular woman could stand up to unless they go anorexic , and, eliminate women that are really beautiful because of height , or other than european white beauty standards....brazil is totaly , refreshingly opisite of that...except for the actresses there, enlarging their breasts in some strange copying of hollywood...

the fruits are wonderful in brazil, carne do sol is wonderful in brazil, muceca is wonderful in brazil , black beans and rice are wonderful in brazil,

no matter the heavy violence, people are charming in brazil

there is no innate culture in switzerland that has as much ginga as brazilian culture...

i am of the americas, and, brazil has incredible cultural music and dance history preserved,like living snapshots of how the americas developed from the three cultures, indian, european and african.being in brazil is learning , celebrating and understanding that develpement on almost a daily basis . if i was european , or ,extremly infatuated with european culture, for sure being in switzerland or somewhere else in europe ,would be very fulfilling

there are trade offs anywhere you live...i love new york, but, there is no beach in new york and its imposibly expensive...and the samba school there doesnt compare with mangueira ( the jazz is better , though)

personaly, i dont care what any individual on here thinks or sais, this is personal preferance.what is this line of questioning of my personal tastes ? i dont question anyone else on here about why they want to live where they live

yeah, i love living in brazil more than anywhere in the world.i could leave if i wanted to...but, i dont see that i will be doing that anytime soon

statistics are very cold on paper and cyber space...
...
written by observer, September 04, 2008
...ahh, the sounds of nationalism..the place where one is born and believes it is superior to anywhere else!!!. Why hell a guy sitting in his speedos in natural hotsprings in Iceland thinks he is in heaven smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
Thinls He´s in Heaven
written by Ric, September 04, 2008
But how would you know that? I mean, know what he is thinking?
nationalism?
written by asp, September 04, 2008
what is wrong with this forum is that if i start giving any details of who i really or where i am really from,some jerk is going to try to use it to "pshycoanalyse " me , or narrow mindedly try to peg me for this or that...

if , in making a point i chose to reveal something in my life , i will, but,i have no need or desire to put out on this forum what nationality i am or what i do for a living or my personal life , unless it makes a point that i want to make...

my ideas and opinions are what im giving...where i am from doesnt matter. you have brazilians putting down brazilian culture as well as people outside of brazil...you have people writing in english who are mistaken for american...
Nationalism is a silly c**k crowing on his own dunghill
written by Forrest Allen Brown, September 04, 2008
EVERY one has something they are proud of
some country ,
sports team
military .
wife & kids

and will defend it to there last breath
no matter how bad it is it is there

pile of dung
Augustus views on Nationalism - its origins and recent remnants
written by AUGUSTUS, September 04, 2008
Nationalism has always plagued the world like a killing virus and it’s responsible for the overwhelming majority of the wars fought during since the conclusion of the French Revolution in the late Eighteenth Century when the French “national identity” was originally (and officially) associated with their Gaul predecessors…

Yet, despite the unquestionable emergence of nations into entities bearing distinct political consciousness which, following the French example, assumed a certain unstoppable “momentum” during the many struggles of the subsequent nineteenth century, there have been recent attempts by political & religious leaders to shape more recently formed national identities, with their dynasty at the center; and such process can easily be equated and identified with phenomena occurring as early as the twilight of the Roman Empire. Since many emergent Barbarian chiefs claimed succession of regional portions of Rome, they had succeeded in crafting new identities on the basis of descent from an ancient “noble family”, their modern counter parts claiming descent from the same lineage (the beginnings of European Dynasties), along with a shared ancestry of entire “peoples” bearing common language, custom, and religious identity, Nationalism was thereby established based upon Laws, rights and a “common purpose & responsibility” of a give group of “peoples” and their legitimate rulers…

Unquestionably this “honor” often shared and disputed by opposing cultures (e.g. Charlemagne, Karl Mein, Carlos Magnus – claimed by French, Germans and Italians as their ultimate forefather) may be perceived as the ultimate source (or if you prefer excuse) for the horrible Nineteenth Century’s conflicts, which were further exacerbated into World Wars triggered by Europeans in the Twentieth Century as well as unforgivable acts of genocide not only by Germans against Jews, but also in Rwanda/Burundi (Africa) as well as Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia during the more recent disintegration of former Yugoslavia.
ASP - fear of disclosing some details? Curiousity on extreme caution...
written by AUGUSTUS, September 04, 2008
Whereas I would never consider disclosing actual name or specific address or even specific profession, what is the problem with revealing you city of birth or even where you current live, unless of course they happen to be small towns where one's true identify could be more easily identified...

Since the beginning of my participation of this "blog" I have never concealed my upbringing in Rio & Sao Paulo and current residence in New York City... Who is going to located me with so few details? Actually, I could not possibly care less in the unlikely event anyone actually accomplished such an astounding task...

I'm just curious as to the reason for so extreme caution, for I could not derive any benenfit from the disclosure of your information...
augustus
written by asp, September 04, 2008
basicly what i said that was, if it helped to make a point i would offer certain information.

but, the things i said about brazil above, have nothing to do with what nationality i am. what has that got to do with it?

people would only use that information to deride my opinion, when that has no baring on what i said.

for some , if i am brazilian i am being too nationalistic. if i am from somewhere else, i am a naive fool, to other people...would some brazilians on here , give me less credit for my opinion of brazil if they found out i was from outside of brazil ?

those opinions i gave about brazil are valid whether im from brazil or not...

these type forums are like that. people who state their experiances are quickly pidgeon holed for it...

already i have revealed certain things about me, i am of no organised religion ,and, detest it, yet i consider myself spiritual...

i have a great afinity for afro brazilin culture...

im sure other things will come out if i make more posts...

but, there are people on here i have no trust for at all
...
written by .., September 04, 2008
but, the things i said about brazil above, have nothing to do with what nationality i am. what has that got to do with it?


Got everything to do with your nationality, because many in this blog consider you to be a pompous arsehole.
Augustus
written by .., September 04, 2008
ASP - fear of disclosing some details? Curiousity on extreme caution...


I really do not understand why you are wasting your time with this idiot. It is your choice, though. smilies/grin.gif
how about f**k you , bitch
written by asp, September 05, 2008
kiss my ass
...
written by Ric, September 05, 2008
Sounds like he got to you, asp. Don´t let Daddy Warbucks hear you use language like that.
no , ric...
written by asp, September 05, 2008
that is just the way i am naturaly...

bitches shouldnt f**k with me on here
...
written by .., September 05, 2008
that is just the way i am naturaly...

bitches shouldnt f**k with me on here


As you say, Gostozão.
Anyone remember
written by Simpleton, September 06, 2008
our dear friend eHarmony? He used to readily get lit