Brazzil

Is the Brasilia Bus Depot...frequented by...FOREIGNERS ?????

Probably not !!!!!!!

And then who are the ONLY ones targeted by your police for sexual tourism ?
FOREIGNERS...of course !!!!!

it is quite good to eventually stop these children prostitution in
the Brasilia Bus Depot, but why not have done a full investigation and arrest the adults who have/had sex with these minors ??????? IMPUNITY...is the rule of laws !
Because...ONLY FOREIGNERS ARE TARGETED, NOT THE LOCALS ! AND YOU PROVE IT...ONCE MORE.

And if Buarque is so much against children prostitution....why doesnt he do the same for the approximately 1000 Municipalities that provide sex with minors...OPENLY !!!!!
These 1000 Municipalities are not out of my imagination, but out of a report made by a Brazilian.....in Brazil !
Report partially published here, in this site, 2 or 3 years ago !!!!!

Even if he cannot do much in these 1000 Municipalities, still some are in HIS STATE WHERE BUARQUE, THE GOVERNOR, THE POLICE AND JUSTICE DEPT COULD DO....EVERYTHING TO STOP AND CLOSE THESE AREAS....NOTABLY THE BROTHELS !!!!!!!
Therefore why Buarque and the Governor send IMMEDIATELY the police forces for children street prostitution, but ZERO police forces to the BROTHELS HAVING CHILDREN PROSTITUTION....... KNOWN BY EVERYONE INCLUDING THE POLICE FORCES, THE GOVERNOR AND THE JUSTICE DEPT ??????????

Let me tell you this : In Brazil, no one cares about children prostitution.
But a few politicians care publicly only when it becomes proved by the medias,such as the above pictures, that children STREET prostitution......is NOT GOOD FOR THEIR OWN REp**aTION, OR CITY REp**aTION !!!!!
Everyone is publicly against such practices, but no one cares with action, not even Buarque or the Braisilia Governor, as long as it is behind walls, and in places where pictures cant be taken anyway !

I wish someone prove me wrong !

A report was made, not out of the blue. YOUR JUSTICE AND POLICE AND POLITICIANS KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THERE IS STREET AND BROTHELS CHILDREN PROSTITUTION !!!!!!

How many of these brothels have been closed, after the report ?
How many people have been prosecuted of having tolerated (OR suggested) these
children in THEIR OWN brothels ?
How many investigations AND PROSECUTIONS have been made of WHO were/are the clients of these children ??????
How many ended in jail....so far ?
What was the average jail term sentence ?

Shame on you Buarque, Shame on you Brazil !!!!!
Stop only talking, start to act where you can !
Publish the results of your actions, with numbers, stats,prosecutions, jail sentences !
Not only the people allowing or suggesting these prostitutions in their own place but also the ones who are regular clients of such practices !!!!!!

it does not matter for whom they go after .

its the fact it happens all the time

and all know about it in power but cant or wont do

a thing about it till it comes out in the

news papers with pictures

the you get the knee jerk reaction from
the powers at B

to put a bandaid on it
but never fix it the right way .

look at the US now most of the congress and senet are in fear of
looseing there jobe in november as as a people
most working citisens dont want the bail out of the rich people and the compaines that have been taking there money for years ,
sending the jobs overseas, killing there 401K
while the bigwigs still get there golden parachute

MADRID, Spain - Spanish police arrested 121 people in the country's biggest-ever crackdown on child pornography, seizing discs containing millions of video and photo files shared by a network that distributed them in 75 countries, authorities said Wednesday.

Two of the suspects produced pornographic material themselves using members of their own families, police said in a statement. Those arrested came from all kinds of backgrounds, including pilots, salespeople, porters, taxi drivers and bank employees, it said.

The arrests were made last week and four of those in custody are minors, police said.

Brazilian police helped
Brazilian police helped with the operation, which began in July 2007. A further 96 people have been named as suspects in the case, which involved raids on more than 250 homes across Spain.

Some of the videos and photographs that were seized featured extremely disturbing material, police said.

Most of the suspects are Spaniards, police said without naming the other nationalities. Police said the detainees used peer-to-peer, or P2P, servers to share at least three download sites.

Spanish authorities said they have arrested more than 1,200 people in connection with child pornography on the Internet in the last five years.

So many involved in prostitution and poverty is just the tip of the iceberg. It is very sad. But little can be done. The best anyone can do is help a child escape from that way of life. And even then, the child has to "choose". The police cannot attack the "root cause" of the problem. Only education and economic oppurtunity can begin to address the issue. And Brazil wants to focus on other things. The elite conveniently turn a blind eye to the issue. It isn't their problem.... yet...

The sad, disturbing and highly embarrassing editorial does not surprise me and in fact it appears befitting to a nation where corruption and promiscuity rule supreme!

In a country of extremely corrupt individuals (some of which would not hesitate to sell their mothers (let alone their sons) in order to make a quick “profit”, along with the natural proclivity of Brazilians to think, reflect and react with their genitalia, one should not be surprised with the contents of this editorial

Combining Corruption and promiscuity, and extreme carefree nature of Brazilians, along with the historical patriarchy, slavery and lawlessness, indubitably lead to the unfortunate situation whereby the most vulnerable individuals – young boys & girls – fall victims of predatory practices in the very center of the nation’s capital….

Shame! Shame! Shame!

Good ! Very Good !
When will we see this in Brazil ?????
That was my first argument !

Buarque article states only that the police forces "cleaned" the street.
Same street or close by, will be filled again the next day...or next week at the latest.

Yesssss.....Forrest......HOW MANY arrests were made ??????????
That was my second argument !

How many investigations were made to arrest the regular or occasional clients ?
That was my third argument !!!!

Cleaning the streeets, doesnt change anything, unless you arrest and sentence the clients to jail terms !!!!
Cleaning the streets, and not cleaning the brothels where there is also children prostitution, doesnt change anything either !!!!!!
Not cleaning the brothels, and not sending the brothels owners and managers and clients to jail, still ddoesnt change anything !!!!!

It is like investing !
When there is little risk and high reward....crimes under whatever forms...are a risk worth taking !!!!!! Because.....where is the risk, what is the reward ????
More simple there is not !!!!
Corruption or homicides are not different.

Good ! Very Good !
When will we see this in Brazil ?????
That was my first argument !

Buarque article states only that the police forces "cleaned" the street.
Same street or close by, will be filled again the next day...or next week at the latest.

Yesssss.....Forrest......HOW MANY arrests were made ??????????
That was my second argument !

How many investigations were made to arrest the regular or occasional clients ?
That was my third argument !!!!

Cleaning the streeets, doesnt change anything, unless you arrest and sentence the clients to jail terms !!!!
Cleaning the streets, and not cleaning the brothels where there is also children prostitution, doesnt change anything either !!!!!!
Not cleaning the brothels, and not sending the brothels owners and managers and clients to jail, still ddoesnt change anything !!!!!

It is like investing !
When there is little risk and high reward....crimes under whatever forms...are a risk worth taking !!!!!! Because.....where is the risk, what is the reward ????
More simple there is not !!!!
Corruption or homicides are not different.

Forget what the laws or the Constitution says !
Because as good as laws can be, they are good only if and when applied !!!!

Of All the Brazilians readers here, how many of you have even read YOUR Constitution...ONCE ???????

You should read just the first few pages !!!!!

And YOU will laugh as much as I do regularly in my comments !!!!!!

Not that your Constitution is bad, but how Your Constitution is applied in real life....in 2008 !!!!!!!!!

It is the biggest joke one can think of.

You know who you remind me of, Ch? Those foaming-at-the-mouth street preachers one so often encounters in Largo da Carioca.

Like them, you scream, rant and rave, burning up enourmous amounts of time and energy, but in rhetorical terms you ultimately end up doing donuts on the lawm. You go nowhere and say nothing that is of any conceivable use to anybody.

Brazil sucks and all of us Brazilians are evil, corrupt and incompetent bastards.

Got the message the first time, Mr. Prophet. You can take off the sandwich board now and give your lungs a rest, OK?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I'll wander off to the Rei dos Galetos for a chope, a garlic roasted chicken and further news of the good, honest and competent
U.S. Congresses' labors at heading off global financial chaos.

I never ever said I am against sex, prostitution, or against brothels.

But by your own words and meanings you are confirming that YOU ARE A REGULAR CLIENT OF SEX WITH MINORS WITH MONEY WHEN WITH CHILDREN PROSTITUTION, OR WITHOUT MONEY WITH YOUR OWN CHILDREN, NIECES OR NEPHEWS !!!!!!!!!

Your critics dont surprise me at all. You are hiding the sad person you really sre, just as ALL Pedophil do.....until proven guilty !!!!!!

Because Your theory is....innocent until proven guilty !!!!

But guilty you are. You know it, I know it....but I dont have the proof that would send you to jail ! Even if I could prove it YOU know that NOTHING would happen to you !!!! After all....you are in Brazil.
Tens of millions Brazilians use children prostitution.Millions abuse their own children !!!!!!


You better re-read the preceding article from Buarque !

Thaddeus Blanchette YOU are not only a Paedophil but also a Paedophob !!!!!!

Preach it, brother! LOL

Anyone whom speaks out about a disparity in the application of laws- especially regarding pedophilia- is the last person to be castigated with the callous label of 'Preach it, brother! LOL'.
I've had intellectual disagreements with the blogger you have just criticized, but, if you were to spew that you know what to my face, I would show you what a lifetime of martial arts training, in addition to a competitive fighting record, actually produces. Your submissive and cowardly perspective is part of the problem.

You know who you remind me of, Ch? Those foaming-at-the-mouth street preachers one so often encounters in Largo da Carioca.
Like them, you scream, rant and rave, burning up enourmous amounts of time and energy, but in rhetorical terms you ultimately end up doing donuts on the lawm. You go nowhere and say nothing that is of any conceivable use to anybody.

Well....if they are doing donuts on the lawn, fine. They obviously made an impression on you.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I'll wander off to the Rei dos Galetos for a chope, a garlic roasted chicken and further news of the good, honest and competent U.S. Congresses' labors at heading off global financial chaos

I'm an American. The corrupt U.S.Congress people, whom created the global crisis in the first place, are toasting (as in 'SAUDE') your blind and delusional confidence in them by the definition of "good, honest and competent". Your frivolous tone is very telling.

Chuckle.

Here's a buck, kiddo. Go buy yourself a cup of coffee.



It's gotta get cold standing on the corner ranting like that, all day long.

Anyone whom speaks out about a disparity in the application of laws- especially regarding pedophilia- is the last person to be castigated with the callous label of 'Preach it, brother! LOL'.

Vinster, Ch.C doesn't know if he's coming or going and certainly doesn't know s**t about how things in this country work. If he has some constructive advice regarding how to fight pedophilia, I for one would love to hear it. But all I hear right now is a guy screaming "Shame! Shame!" and making the most abusive, insulting, hyperbolic accusations imaginable.

I've had intellectual disagreements with the blogger you have just criticized, but, if you were to spew that you know what to my face, I would show you what a lifetime of martial arts training, in addition to a competitive fighting record, actually produces. Your submissive and cowardly perspective is part of the problem.

Let me see if I understood that correctly...

You're threatening to beat me to a pulp - me, a guy who's a sworn pacificist, wishy-washy liberal type who cries when he swats mosquitos? And you're making this threat over the internet under an assumed handle while I'm posting under my real name...?

And I'm a coward...?

That's an interesting perspective you have on cowardness there, Vin.

Or did I get that all wrong? Maybe that "submissive" bit some sort of a come on...?

Well, I'm flattered if that's the case, Vinnie, but I'm a happily married man and I don't swing that way. Thanks, anyhow.

The corrupt U.S.Congress people, whom created the global crisis in the first place, are toasting (as in 'SAUDE') your blind and delusional confidence in them by the definition of "good, honest and competent".

Irony doesn't play much of a role in your lifestyle, does it, Vin?

if you were to spew that you know what to my face, I would show you what a lifetime of martial arts training, in addition to a competitive fighting record, actually produces.

Mongo like!

Mongo have thing for VinnieCarioca.

VinnieCarioca has small peepee but big mouth and big muscle.

Mongo liiiiiiiiike....

Let me see if I understood that correctly...

You're threatening to beat me to a pulp - me, a guy who's a sworn pacificist, wishy-washy liberal type who cries when he swats mosquitos? And you're making this threat over the internet under an assumed handle while I'm posting under my real name...?

Absolutely not. That was an impulsive and regrettable remark on my part and I apologize. Very Thoughtless.

As to your stupid question why dont you re-read what the Spanish police DID ?????


THEY arrested well over 100 people !

Why dont you re-read then Buarque article on Brazilian police ?

THEY arrested well below 1 person !

TOTAL.....I M P U N I T Y..... is the rule of law in your tropical mud !

As to your SMART comments "Brazil sucks and all of us Brazilians are evil, corrupt and incompetent bastards."

Why dont you re-read the just published report on corruption ranking ?
Why dont you re-read A BRAZILIAN report, which ranked Brazil 46th ou of 50....in education ???????
Why dont you re-read the thousands of articles on the BRAZILIANS DEATHS SQUADS, killing innocent childrens ? A U.N. report was just published 2 or 3 weeks ago !
Why dont you re-read Buarque article on Brazilians Paedophils and Paedophobs ????

Yesssssss.......P & P Thaddeus Blanchette, you wrote it all with your own words !!!!

You should not go to hell. Too good for you ! A Squad should cut your peepee as you said, and glue it to your mouth. You could then suck it...for the rest of your life....just as you like it !!!!!! DAY & NIGHT permanently !
And a gallon of ethanol in your back, to have your hole gaping permanently too !

Then you should be offered to monkeys !!!!!!

As to your stupid question why dont you re-read what the Spanish police DID ?????


THEY arrested well over 100 people !

Why dont you re-read then Buarque article on Brazilian police ?

THEY arrested well below 1 person !

TOTAL.....I M P U N I T Y..... is the rule of law in your tropical mud !

As to your SMART comments "Brazil sucks and all of us Brazilians are evil, corrupt and incompetent bastards."

Why dont you re-read the just published report on corruption ranking ?
Why dont you re-read A BRAZILIAN report, which ranked Brazil 46th ou of 50....in education ???????
Why dont you re-read the thousands of articles on the BRAZILIANS DEATHS SQUADS, killing innocent childrens ? A U.N. report was just published 2 or 3 weeks ago !
Why dont you re-read Buarque article on Brazilians Paedophils and Paedophobs ????

Yesssssss.......P & P Thaddeus Blanchette, you wrote it all with your own words !!!!

You should not go to hell. Too good for you ! A Squad should cut your peepee as you said, and glue it to your mouth. You could then suck it...for the rest of your life....just as you like it !!!!!! DAY & NIGHT permanently !
And a gallon of ethanol in your back, to have your hole gaping permanently too !

Then you should be offered to monkeys !!!!!!

When 9-year old girls have to sell themselves, you know it's way past 12 o'clock ... Despite all this talk about "economy booming", "huge money reserves", and "deep oil discoveries", something is really really rotten in the kingdom of Brazil ... This is a perspective of a guy from Europe.

I have been living in Brazil for some years now, and I keep comparing it with countries that I lived in before (in Europe, and North America). The main problem, in my view, is that an average Joao Ninguem doesn't have that perspective, and usually thinks that everything is peachy, swell and dandy. This same Joao takes corruption for granted, when this level of corruption in any North Hemisphere country is simply unimaginable... This same Joao thinks that crime rates are "bad but not very bad", so how can you explain to such a person that crime rates, and this omnipresent sense of fear when you walk on the street, is so bad that one cannot actually leive normally?

When I came here, I had a "reserve" of peace of mind, an accumulation of tranquility that just a person who had lived for his whole life in an extremely secure society ... But now, several years later, it started to "get to me". I sometimes catch myself calculating whether a AK-47 bullet can reach a trajectory leading to my window; I keep looking into the darker parts of my street when I am returning home from work; I sometimes even catched myself thinking how probable is for somebody to kidnap a member of my family.

I cannot explain to an outsider, how bad a feeling this is. So yes, soon I will be leaving Brazil, for good; and if I ever come back, this will be for a short visit only, and only to areas that I deem secure, like Florianopolis. Unfortunately, Brazil as a country is becoming unfeasible to live in.

one just has to open there eyes .

the political rich , thoes that live with rose colored glasses there whole lives .

in there towers of impunity , down to the comon man & woman .

need to stop this but most people say not my job , or it will never change i am just one person .

so was JESUS, HITLER ,CASTRO,LENON ,

hundreds of one persons did do something .

i have seen the pros in JP run down men that pick up children and make fools of them in the streets , brazilians & gringoes alike .

not because it is rong but because they are looseing money to the children as older is losser ????????? and a man that wants a little girl or boy has a mential
problum ,and ego problum ,or a small member .

all should get thiese kids of the streets , the internet ,and into schools .

it is a nationla delema a world delma ,

long jail terms to out right castration for any men or women that are caught
for this crime .

okay off my soap box it would be just as easy for me to put a bullet in them
than to get help from someone else

spain has stopped many brazilians from entering their country at customs, and, has treated innocent people from brazil like dogs...over and over...

for sure, they have to be vigilant because many women are trying to enter the country for protitution , manytimes through a quadrilha, a group of people trying to get them in, but, there are many reports in brazil of large groups of innocent people getting horrible treatment at the hands of customs...

child prostitution ? who in their right mind would be for it? (of course i know there are large numbers of dog pervert men who would do this )more than anything, the root causes that makes children think prostiturion is an economic option , have to be seriously addressed

"Ch.C doesn't know if he's coming or going and certainly doesn't know s**t about how things in this country work."

Funny your statement !

Because so far I am the one giving the stats and facts, even on Your agriculture.
I AM THE ONE TELLING YOU.....LOOK THERE...its written with stats, numbers and facts.

When did you ever come on the forum with stats and facts ????
NEVER...ONCE...SO FAR !!!!!
Only idiots and junkies can do...as well as you !

In my comments, many times I even added......I wish someone prove me wrong !

Welll....so far I am still waiting !

I can only repeat just ask an idiot how much equals 2 PLUS 2.
He will answer........"FIVE.....EVERY IDIOT KNOWS THAT !!!!"

I bet you cant even catch this.

Looks like I know more about Brazil than Blanchette who is totally addicted to
P & P and also to the Brazilian TV Novelas.

What else ? Show us your brains and knowledge on Brazil !!!!!

This is tragic. It is tragic in Brazil, in the US, in France, in the Phillipines, in Thailand. It starts with Patriarchy, that teaches men they were made to dominate women. Girls are small women. It starts with Capitalism, that says 'I'm on top, you're on the bottom'. NOBODY wants to do this work - I have never read a report or heard a prostituted woman say, ever, that this was a career choice. She had no choice. These kids have no choice.

In Sweden, they arrest the Johns, the men who hire prostitutes, the men who pay to own a human being for one hour, one night, or one day. The women are not charged, the buyers are. If you think it is a crime to buy a human being, than maybe you support this model.

There is a huge slave trade that kidnaps women and children from countries where there is extreme poverty, and sells them all over the world. To men.
All kinds of men buy human beings - rich men, poor men, white men, blacvk men.
Prostitutes, women and children, are subject to rape. The Johns rape them, beat them, use them and don't pay, humiliate them. So do their pimps. They often have to create a dual reality in order to get through each day. Can you imagine having to do this from the age of 8? Can you imagine a world which condones this?

Welcome to that world.

For the first time I have to agree with Thaddeus. Ch.c never added anything constructive to any article posted here. All he does is to spew hatred. He is more assiduous than anybody else here. Why? Is he the owner of this site? Is he related or friends with the owner of this site? Does he have a job? Is he married? Seriously, he has been on this forum FOR YEARS! Posting on every single article the usual hateful comment. What does he do for a living? Think about it. The guy seems to have no life and he seems to have a fanatic dedication to this site.

I am not saying Brazil has no problems, but pedophilia is a problem in many places, and sometimes even a greater problem than Brazil's. How can a swiss guy point fingers when in his own country a madman locked his daughter in a basement and raped her for decades? What does it prove? It proves that some people are wicked. How can this be linked to someone else's nationality?

And this is the problem with ch.c. He uses every single news on this site to associated an entire population to terrible things, making broad and sometimes untruthful claims, while ignoring, hiding or lying about problems in his own country or other countries around the world, that might be even worse than Brazil's.

The way ch.c demonizes Brazil and Brazilians reminds me of Nazi rethoric and propaganda about Jews. I mean, it is designed to instigate hatred in people. It is almost as if ch.c wanted to wipe Brazilians off the face of the Earth. It is hate with a fanatic-like zeal.

Truly frightening if you think about it for a second. What such a person could do? You saw what the Nazis did in germany. Such a person can actually influentiate those that don't think too much and it seems that ch.c is in a quest to exterminate Brazil and Brazilians. What if ch.c was a politician? What could he do?

He often cites some statistics or another, but without a context and a well-defined scope statistics are just propagandistic tools.

There are children who sell themselves for sex all over the world, including in the U.S. Hasn't anyone here ever watched the De Niro movie, Taxi Driver?All one has to do to make a screaming splash in the media is find a couple of these sad kids and photograph them and BANG! Instant headlines.

People have a very hard time understanding that one or two - or even a dozen - kids selling sex does not a national epidemic make.

Now, I research Brazil's largest sex market and it's largest sex tourism market: Rio de Janeiro. And in all my years working in Copa, observing, studying, etc., I've seen precisely one prostitute that I'd flat-out say was a child. Even if we extend the word "child" to take in 15-18 years olds, I have still never seen more than a handful of kids working Copa and NEVER in any of the main gringo sex bars.

Copa, in fact, is pretty damn solidly under the thumb of the cops on this issue these days.

Also, the idea that thousands of Brazilian women are being dragged off to Europe against their will by "quadrilhas" is a myth. The women who go to Europe to work as prostitutes generally do so of their own free will because there's good money to be made doing that. Do quadrilhas enter into this? Yes. Why, because of prostitution? No: because of the PREJUDICED IMMIGRATION LAWS that try to keep these women out.

So the person who said that Spain needs to have these tough laws to "protect" women from quadrilhas has it ass-backwards: it is the global war on immigration that leads Brazilian prostitutes to look for extra-legal aid in crossing borders. If they could cross the borders legally at will, these women by and large wouldn't need help from the mafia.

This opinion is based on a year-long study organized by Adriana Piscitelli who interviewed Brazilians deported from Europe, many of whom were classified as "trafficikg victims". Not a single one of these people argued for tougher immigration laws to help "protect" themselves from trafficking. Their number one request was legitimate entrance visas so that they didn't have to go to the mafia for help crossing the border.

As so often is the case on this issue, people get their beliefs from the media, not from reality. And the media, my friends, is in the business of selling news. Nothing sells news better than sensationalism and nothing is more sensationalistic than lurid reports of sexual slavery, especially if children are involved.

Now, I'm sure that someone here will pitch a screaming fit that I don't know the "real Brazil" and that somewhere, just beyond my line of sight, there's a huge market for child sex-slaves.

OK. I admit I don't see everything. This is supposedly a national crisis of epic proportions, right? Should be easy to find lots of kids selling themselves for sex, right?

So take me there. If the pedophiles and johns can find these kids, YOU should be able to find them, seeing as how there are millions of them, right?

I'm not talking about two or three kids hanging around the Brasília bus depot, either. I'm talking about that thing that everyone insists exists all over Brazil but which I've never seen, anywhere: the brothel that mainly uses child (11-15) year-old sex workers. I have been looking for solid proof that such a thing exists for years and all I hear is rumors.

Where's the beef?

GATW, one of the most well-known anti-trafficking groups out there, estimates that there are 40,000,000 abused children in Brazil (even though Brazil only has 29,000,000 children and adolescents) and that a huge number of kids are prostituting themselves. OK, so show us this huge number of kids. Anyone can take a few photos of kids on a street corner and say that they are prostitutes: let's see a by-God brothel. Just one. Let's see a scene like Prado Junior in Copa with, say, a dozen kids working it. Something. Anything other than these blurry photos taken at a distance by overwrought journalists.

These supposed millions kids are selling sex in public and NOBODY can get a better picture of these teaming masses other than the kind of photo we see above...?

Kinda fishy, to me.

Brazil is a country that by-and-large believes in witches, devils and ghosts. ANY rumor is generally believed, especially if it's bad enough. Years ago, there was a huge bafafá in our media about people who were supposedly buying children as forced donors for organ transplants. After a CPI, millions of reais spent on investigation and thousands of column inches of lurid stories and accusations in our newspapers, prescisely ONE guy was found trying to sell organs and he was trying to sell his own kidney. Why? Because h'd heard so much about how supposedly lucrative it was to buy black market organs in Brazil that he figured he might as well get into the game, seeing as how he needed the cash and had a kidney to spare.

So that entire social panic evaporated overnight and today people barely remember it. And we had a f**king CPI about the "problem".

This is, of course, why I have little patience for people who scream a blue-streak on issues like this. Nine times out of ten, they are muddying the waters and their well-intentioned hysteria ends up actually HELPING the handful of criminals get away.

The user's manual from Wall Street will go to Mission Control. Don't forget to wear your tinfoil hat.

Fnord.

If you truly believe that

There is a huge slave trade that kidnaps women and children from countries where there is extreme poverty, and sells them all over the world

and that this is what is indeed going on with the majority of Brazilian sex-trade workers in Europpe, then I cordially invite you to come out with me one night here in Rio and actually TALK to these women.

Lay your rap on them about how they are powerless, brainwashed victims. I'd like to see their reaction.

Come here to Rio and we'll take you over to the Rede Brasileira de Prostitutas and then down to Copa and if you can find me ONE woman who's been beaten and tortured into becoming a prostitute and who's willing to be interviewed (formally or informally) on the topic, I will pay you 100 USD. I assume you'll give it straight to the poor woman in question.

This is a very serious invitation.

Want to know why women (and men) prostitute themselves, Julia?

Money. Pure and simple.

A trick at the Central do Brazil in Rio makes you 100 USD. Even in Vila Mimosa, you're getting paid one real a minute for sex, with a minimum of 25 reais. In other words, even in one of the lowest, sleaziest red light districts in Rio, a person can make close to the equivalent of TWO MINIMUM WAGES doing one trick a day for 25 minutes.

You don't need to look any deeper for the reasons behind prostitution than that.

From what the women tell me on Copa, there is a WAITING LINE to go to Europe. No one has to kidnap, beat, or force anyone to do anything. And if once these women get to Europe they actually fall into the hands of a real honest-to-God pack of slavers, they cannot ask for help because those "good Europeans" who are so concerned about these women will turn them over to the cops for deportation as illegal aliens in a blink.

If human mobilit was given the same guarantees and respect and MONEY mobility, we wouldn't have one tenth of the human trafficking problem we now have.

Whoops! I mis-stated. A trick in Copacabana makes you 100 USD and even a trick at the Central or Vila Mimosa is 1 Real per minute, minimum 25. When I edited, I switched Central for Copa instead of VM. My bad.

Nevertheless, the point still stands.

"So the person who said that Spain needs to have these tough laws to "protect" women from quadrilhas has it ass-backwards: it is the global war on immigration that leads Brazilian prostitutes to look for extra-legal aid in crossing borders. If they could cross the borders legally at will, these women by and large wouldn't need help from the mafia. "

dont misrepresent my point, blanchard, i didnt say they need to be vigilant, i said they had to be , since they make prostitution ilegal, and they are going way over board in their efforts , hurting a lot of innocent people. and,i didnt say that it was always with a quadrilha , i said many times . and , that is a fact. if you want to have your theory about what is underneath that , fine, but its well known the practice of getting women over there , taking their passports and making them work off their ticket prices and lodgings and food in a perpetual never ending cycle.

if you study this like you say , you should know there are various levels of women who are trying to get to europe. there are very independent well traveled women who dont need anyone to help them get there, and, there are a lot of very poor women who need the help of someone to get over there.


"for sure, they have to be vigilant because many women are trying to enter the country for protitution , manytimes through a quadrilha, a group of people trying to get them in, but, there are many reports in brazil of large groups of innocent people getting horrible treatment at the hands of customs... "

you just said yourself that women are standing in line to get to europe,which is what i was implying , so, if prostitution is against the law , of course the customs agents " have " to be vigilent , and, that is what creates the unfair crackdown on brazilians trying to visit spain. ...i dont say they "need" to be..

i am in favor of great liberalisation of prostitution involving concenting adults.

quite a few of the women in copacabana are mothers trying to support kids after their men have abandoned them . that is as much of the reality as anything

and yet so true even after acknowledging snake-eyes' slight of hand adjustments to what you responded to. Need to get you and our eloquently spoken aristocrat together for a collaborative effort.

Asp, have you ever stopped to wonder how, exactly, taking a person's passport away turns them into a sex slave, ESPECIALLY if they are an illegal immigrant in the first place?

I would like you to explain this to me because, as you pointed out, my understanding of this is merely theoretical and you are the man with, as you say, "the facts".

I take your passport. You are an illegal immigrant. Your passport thus means jack s**t because you can't show it to the authorities anyhow. So HOW does my taking your passport enslave you?

Awaiting to be enlightened here...

What is more sensationalistic than reporting such behaviours in a capital city! Anyone will tell you that once you move more than two blocks away from the Whitehouse in DC, it is crime central

i never mentioned slavery , would you f**king quit trying to misrepresent what im saying , i just mentioned a tecnique that is used .

i never implied that ive got the facts and you are just theory ( and maybe i agree with some of your theories).i said it was a fact that they have people that get women over there in europe, from africa , dominican republic and brazil and in some of the lower level operations they take their passports. i dont know how that translates into your confusion about that issue, but,ive seen this in various reports from differant countries

but, get off my back

id be happy to listen to your experiances and theories,as much as ch cs statistics , give me lincs to your research. ive had plenty of conversations myself since sobre das ondas has the best steamed spinich in copacabana i cant help get into conversations

but, i mean just dont f**k with me , you know what i mean ? that is the second time youve ,misrepresented what ive said

i never mentioned slavery , would you f**king quit trying to misrepresent what im saying , i just mentioned a tecnique that is used .

OK, strike the "slavery" then.

Please explain how this technique supposedly works, because for the life of me, I can't see how you can make someone do anything by taking their passport.

You do know that lost passports can be replaced, usually very quickly, at your country's conculates, right? And you do know that Brazil's consulates do not rat out their citizens to the local immigration authorities, correct?

So how does taking your passport make you work for me?

...give me lincs to your research...

[url= http://www.scielo.br/scielo.ph...so&tlng=en

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.ph...o&tlng=en

http://www.movimientos.org/gri...3?key=6560

if you study this like you say , you should know there are various levels of women who are trying to get to europe. there are very independent well traveled women who dont need anyone to help them get there, and, there are a lot of very poor women who need the help of someone to get over there.

Spot on. You made a great point.

looks like a good study , its a good read ,like i said ,im more in agreement with your basic points.

i never was one of the people screaming about sexual tourism. i agree that it is loaded with complexities, and, i have seen people using the banner of sexual tourism to just bash prostitution and gringos hooking up with brazilians

but, i have seen more than one report in brazil tv about an orginised group being arrested trying to get women out of brazil to prostitute . and, documentaries about women from the dominican republic and africa , going through the passport thing and having to work off their ticket and living expenses, and, getting caught in a cycle hard to get out of.

i cant answer your question about why dont they get the passport from the consulates, but, docus from two differant countries speaking of this practice make me think that it does exist on some kind of level.

i never said this was the main way it goes down.but, seeing these docus from differant countries and casual news reports of the organised groups trying to get women out of brazil to prostitute (for sure not against the women's will), i beleive that it happens.but, i know that how you portrayed it in your report is more the norm than the organised group trying to hustle women out .

but i dont think you can deny it doesnt exist

many times, these reports arnt about girls in rio, its from the northeast or interior , like goias

i find the insights of your study ring true for the women on the program in copacabana. for sure , ive never heard of a brothel in brazil for under age girls.

but, there are plenty of underage girls who prostitute independently

Take a plane to any large city in brazil or a taxi .

just make a conversation with the driver about working women but mention young .
or very young .

not all know where to go but 7 out of 10 can take you to at houses or ]places they work .

as a gringo on several ocations i was asked if i was looking for little women by drivers , and even on the streets ,

it is there and not pretty .

also if you take a pass port from someone and they dont know the system or kept locked up or beaten it is hard to get a new one brazil only has 11 places in the US as to where you can get a pass port .

what most dont know is all they have to do is find a cop or fireman they will get you the help you need ,

and if a court case results you stay in country till the trail and ask for asalum as you cant go home as the people that sent you here will harm you when you go back

written by A Brazilian, October 03, 2008

The way ch.c demonizes Brazil and Brazilians reminds me of Nazi rethoric and propaganda about Jews. I mean, it is designed to instigate hatred in people. It is almost as if ch.c wanted to wipe Brazilians off the face of the Earth. It is hate with a fanatic-like zeal.
Truly frightening if you think about it for a second. What such a person could do? You saw what the Nazis did in germany. Such a person can actually influentiate those that don't think too much and it seems that ch.c is in a quest to exterminate Brazil and Brazilians. What if ch.c was a politician? What could he do?

--Isn't that what your country has been & is doing to present day.
--What a laugh, especially coming from A Brazilian--LOL LOL LOL.

As already mentioned in an entry dated October 1 - King Corruption & Queen Promiscuity enhance abuse & prostitution – this shameful practice is not only deplorable, but it appears to be enhanced in a country such as Brazil, where high levels of corruption (across all levels of society), and extreme promiscuity (a Brazilian trait regardless of social class) provide and enhance the sad reality of child prostitution. In fact I would not be surprised if any extensive analysis of this particular phenomenon conducted across the main World offenders (including Thailand, Romania, Vietnam, Russia, and Bulgaria) would reveal that Brazil far surpasses any other nation in the illegal abuse of minors for prostitution…

Regarding the previous entry (as well as many others I’ve read) attacking CH-C, I would like to admonish the authors of such (automatic and understandable) criticisms... Firstly, I would like to remind everyone that, when I started participating in this blog (Jun/July 200, nobody could match my strong attacks towards the European Blogger (as well as his country), as I immediately became one of CH-C most vocal critics – in fact, my friends generally referred to him as “my nemesis”, in view of the huge number and entries where I confess (and now regret) having used very unsavory remark.

As such, for many months, there was nobody in this blog who could be earmarked as more critical of the Swiss gentleman, and most of my entries included similar considerations utilized by PA and “A Brazilian”, as I had NOT YET grasped the (true) GOOD INTENTIONS concealed behind CH-C loud condemnation of Brazil; NOR had I been in a position to perceive the essence of the (excitable & vocal) individual who at times “appear” to bear a “mask” of a hateful anti-Brazilian; which could not be further from the truth, for I have finally obtained the necessary “detachment” to understand his purposes...

In order to understand CH-C underlying (loud) arguments, often filled with disagreeable language, one must take into account the subject of his denunciations: a society containing mostly corrupt, highly unrealistic, unusually hedonistic, self-centered, and invariably irresponsible individuals whose culture and historical circumstances are the unquestionable culprits! Indeed, if one were to conduct a detached, honest and deep analysis of the Brazilian culture and society, I am convinced that it would unveil a nation of drastic contrasts which was historically shaped by the extreme colonial abuse by the Royal Court in Lisbon.

Because of centuries of mismanagement, abuse, brutality, and theft by its European masters (most of whom were completely indifferent towards the “Territories” outside Portugal), the colonials were inevitably (and gradually) shaped into a society whereby the elite is mostly aloof, irresponsible, classist, self-delusional and mostly dishonest whereas the Proletariat (urban or rural) not only emulate the behavior of their richer, beautiful and powerful “betters”, but also submit to their abuse and submit completely to their control, oblivious to their corruption, and unaware of (or indifferent to) their deplorable condition... Furthermore, because of the shameful, historical impact of a long period of slavery, along with their lack of education, innocence and naïveté, the lower classes (particularly in the North/Northeast) feared the consequences of voicing any objection, as they appeared to be resigned that the status quo holding sway of their society; it was simply accepted as “the way things have always been”.

Consequently, within a socio-economic scenario of abuse, intemperance, and larceny from the TOP combined with passivity, fear, and resignation from the BOTTOM, anyone attempting to change and improve the exceedingly disagreeable Brazilian political culture would have to face an overwhelming and unprecedented uphill battle!

As such, after much reflection and consideration, it became quite evident, that to introduce drastic change to such a rigid socio-political landscape, one ought generate rather big waves by making blatantly offensive remarks, so that its audience could be shaken and coerced to THINK, reflect, and QUESTION all aspects of Brazilian society, its economic and, in particular, its political systems (completely embedded in corruption). Consequently, I reached to the conclusion that CH-C’s style of ridiculing, humiliating, and insulting Brazil and its citizens (often in LOUD and graphic manner), represent a valid tool designed to reach out and influence the otherwise passive and indifferent Brazilian Psyche.

Therefore, CH-C’s unorthodox (and apparently offensive) approach should be perceived as a disguised well-intended gesture the help Brazilians wake up, and smell the coffee brewing (and nearly burned)…

Asp says:

i cant answer your question about why dont they get the passport from the consulates, but, docus from two differant countries speaking of this practice make me think that it does exist on some kind of level.

Asp, I've looked into this pretty deeply and am aware that newspeople always talk about it. But when I ask them how it works, they can't tell me. And when I ask the women, they deny that this is a big deal.

As one woman said to me: "Sure, they took my passport. So I left the next day. I later went back to the Brazilian consulate and told them I needed a replacement."

It seems to me that this is simply an urban legend that gets repeated, time and again, until it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But I will say that there are actually PLENTY of legit reasons why someone might want your passport, especially if it's an employer trying to get you paperwork (on the black market or not). I'm sure MANY people here who have married or otherwise dealt with foreigners have had other peoples' passports in their control at one time or another.

But really, Asp: trafficking of women has become SUCH a media feeding frenzy and people are so gullible about it that you REALLY need to be critical when you read newspaper or magazine articles about it.

For the record, I've talked to federal cops about this issue and asked them if they new of any case where a woman's mobility was impaired because someone had taken her passport. After a lot of hemming and hawing, they admitted that they didn't.

Take a plane to any large city in brazil or a taxi . just make a conversation with the driver about working women but mention young .
or very young . not all know where to go but 7 out of 10 can take you to at houses or ]places they work .

You have actually done this, Forest? Why? Would you be willing to do it again?
You see, I've TRIED doing what you suggest and almost had a taxi driver turn me into the cops for it. Nor have I ever had a taxi driver suggest such a thing to me and I am VERY gringo looking. So if you've done this, you obviously have a much better touch for it than me. If you're really serious about stopping this, how about you take me along the next time you try something like this?

There's money in it for you or the charity of your choice if we strike "gold" and actually find a place like you describe. But you know something? I bet we don't. I bet any place like that, presuming it exists, is FAR off the gringo sex tourist map, too.

But c'mon, man! Applied research! Let's go!

also if you take a pass port from someone and they dont know the system or kept locked up or beaten it is hard to get a new one brazil only has 11 places in the US as to where you can get a pass port .

If you have that kind of control over someone, to the point where you can lock them up and beat them at will, taking away there passport is rather academic, don't you think? I mean, it's the physical power you have over that person that makes the deal, NOT their passport.

As for not knowing how to get another one, yes, that may be a problem, but you know what? Very few immigrants are actually that ignorant and those that are do not live in fear of having their passport taken as they don't really grasp it's importance. Finally, ALL Brazilian immigrants in Europe or the U.S. who do this sort of thing KNOW that they are illegal, so they are not really that worried about whether or not their documents are in order in the first place.

what most dont know is all they have to do is find a cop or fireman they will get you the help you need ,

Actually, you're wrong there. They don't go to cops and firemen because, as illegal immigrants, they know they will be deported if they do.

and if a court case results you stay in country till the trail and ask for asalum as you cant go home as the people that sent you here will harm you when you go back

That's not the case in all countries - or even most, for that matter - and very, very few asylum requests are granted even in those that do allow this. In any case, that would leave the State straight open to a charge of bribing the witness. Check it out...

"Listen, we caught you dancing topless in atitty bar. Nowe you have two options: deportation, or turn State's evidence against the owner and stay here for as long as you like as a bonafide immigrant."

I'm sure you can see the problem with this sort of thing. What would you consider such testimony to be worth?

i am more inclined to beleive what you are saying, blanchard

i beleive in most cases, including under age prostitutes ( it might be hard to get a cab driver to take you on request to underage hookers, but, under age hookers do operate. i even remember a bizzarre looking mother actualy hawking her daughter at sobre das ondas because they couldnt get into help. i totaly consider that a strange exception than the rule. ive definitly seen girls under 18 on the streets of recife), it is a financial desician. the same as young men enter the drug trade in favelas ( check out mv bills documentary, im sure you have) the women enter prostitution as an economic alternative

about the passport thing, like you said,in the really exploitive cases, there are much worse dynamics in place than just whether documents are taken. and, its probably the poorest of women from these countries like dominican republic,congo , eastern europe, indonesia etc that would do anything to get out of poverty and end up at the mercey of some very bad intentioned people

so, while i agree with your basic assumption, this is something that gets blown out of preportion,fueled by people who really hate prostitution or gringos hooking up with prostitutes, i still think it does exist. ive just seen too much reality reporting from various countries (taking into consideration your statement that a lot of the reporting is biased) to think it is just a whim

just as you can go on porn sites and see women that actualy like gagging on a penis, there are probably women that are prone to be in a submissive situation. just like their are men that will allow themselves to be in slavery , or , young men willing to go into a drug trade that has a huge death rate

id be curious if you did your studies in the northeast, recife, ceara , salvador etc, what the results would be. the girls in copacabana are a fast moving sophisticated crowd...what is the latest on help ? has it closed down ?

will be in Brazil later this year if you are for real .!!!!!!

my wife and i will fly with you to Natal good place to start take a cab to punta negra just south show up at the bars around 3:30 am or when they close . watch all the men coming out of the clubes watch them walk down to the darker places along the beach down by the mexican reataurant or past to the beach bar by the italian flags ,( have not been there in a few years bad food but good view )
they come uot of the wood work .
another place is noth of Fortalaza over the big bridge small vill off the beaten path they hang out along the beach bars begging for food or what ever .
ilia itamerica near abru lima along the coats north of recife they have sepical beach cops there to stop all under age girls from getting into cars with men that are not there family members ,( i found this out as i was living there and fatimas younger sister and her cousin we all got into the car and were stoped by the police and we had to show proof we were married .
very nice island land cheep some grate views from hill tops .

when i get there will let you know as this need s to be striken from brazils bad
side of life

Therefore, CH-C’s unorthodox (and apparently offensive) approach should be perceived as a disguised well-intended gesture the help Brazilians wake up, and smell the coffee brewing (and nearly burned)

You are really something. In one comment you have managed to adopt the "victim's badge of pride", very common in the American culture, by accusing the Portuguese for Brazil's ills, pretty much like African-Americans blaming "the white man" for everything wrong in their lives, without taking any responsibility for anything.

And then, as if that was not bad enough, you have given some sort of "approval" to ch.c's rants, without going into any sort of detail about the figures he puts on this site. In other words, you have no data to know anything about what he says, but, perhaps in a masochist impulse, you accept all the hate he spews at face-value.

There are no good intentions in malice. His rants aren't a "deep study into the problem of pedophilia in the world", but just rants from a hateful old man.

The values of the society certainly explain much of Brazil's ills, but it's not logical to conclude that anything is "true" solely based on that. It's a non sequitur, a logical fallacy to conclude such things.

I have never seen any child prostituting itself in Brazil. If such a problem is so big as people say then we should be able to see it, shouldn't we? Oh, I guess this is one of the "hidden" problems such as racism. We can't see it, but someone decides that it must be there because they believe it must be there. You can think whatever you want to, but that's not science, it is just wishful thinking.

--Isn't that what your country has been & is doing to present day.
--What a laugh, especially coming from A Brazilian--LOL LOL LOL.

What country? And doing exactly what and when? Doing it to whom? Sir, you make no sense.

and if you dont beleive children are selling them selves in brazil and other countries you have to be
myopic or your rose colred glaese are to dark .

to save face all countries say it does not go on but yet it does the amonut that went on in china was so bad gringoes could not even talk to any underaged girl or boy with out some undercover cop watching the goings on .

in brazil and other countries the cops would wate till the deal was done and then extort money from the gringo and the child . is the only difference

Never ever before in the history of this site Sr.Buarque´s article has received so many comments! When he writes about "Educação Já" nobody wants to comment. BUT.....BUT.....when he writes about "Selling Sex", he draws comments from several of our "distinguished" as well as "undistinguished" fellow bloggers.

It is indeed a mad,mad, mad world.

so, while i agree with your basic assumption, this is something that gets blown out of preportion,fueled by people who really hate prostitution or gringos hooking up with prostitutes, i still think it does exist. ive just seen too much reality reporting from various countries (taking into consideration your statement that a lot of the reporting is biased) to think it is just a whim /quote]

That's where you are potentially wrong. It's not a "whim": it's catering to a social panic. That means making money.

BtW, this has happened before. I suggest you look up information about the white slavery panic of the early 20th century. Yes, I am sure there are some cases. But massive amounts of reporting DOES NOT mean that this is an epidemic. Many journalists simply do not check their facts, especially when working overseas.

Just look at the GATCW stats I repeated above: supposedly 40,000,000 abused children in a country which only has 29,000,000 children AND adolescents. This is a major ONG, associated with a university, run by PhDs, and they couldn't even be bothered to check basic census data. And that number was widely repeaetd by newspapers and magazines the world over simply because an "authority" put it out there.

The waters on this topic are incredibly muddied and journalists have a very bad track record in dealing with this issue. They should NEVER be taken as primary sources.

will be in Brazil later this year if you are for real

Great. Get in touch with me via this site. I'm a pretty easy guy to find and I'm based in RdJ. The problem is getting up to the NE, so you'll need to let me know a couple of months in advance.

But yes, I'd seriously like to see this first hand. We'll drop of letters of intent with ABA and a couple of researchers in case we get busted. Maybe would be good to talk to the police beforehand, too.

Never ever before in the history of this site Sr.Buarque´s article has received so many comments! When he writes about "Educação Já" nobody wants to comment. BUT.....BUT.....when he writes about "Selling Sex", he draws comments from several of our "distinguished" as well as "undistinguished" fellow bloggers.

It is indeed a mad,mad, mad world.

That's because, for all that Cris is a gadfly, he is - or at least was - an educator. One can thus presume he has some idea of what he's talking about (and I have my doubts about that, which have been publicly expressed on this forum from time to time).

But when he starts talking about child prostitution and using alarmist articles from popular media sources, he's definitely stretching is competency far beyond his brief.

and if you say that there are some cases, but not epidmic i am in even more agreement, because that is what im saying, that your depiction is acurate..

and ,i agree its not epidemic proportions

beleive me, i am very liberal about prostitution , i think it should be legalised, so, i have red flags up about people bashing prostitution

i just know if i see a tv report and they send a reporter in to hang with an underage prostitute in ceara , and, the scenes are blatent and real, at least that report has a validity i have to acknowledge , just as i ackowledge your report. also , when i see they busted a group of people who try to recruit girls to europe, i have to acknowledge that report as having some validity.if the reporters are in the feild capturing real evidence its just like your study, which i ackowledge and agree with.

as i said, i have red flags that shoot up if i think its a biased report, being someone who is liberal about prostitution

brazil is the same as you see any country in the world report on these activities because the truth is, it happens everywhere in the world that there are men.so, for sure, i do not hold brazil to any standard that is differant from anywhere else , the reports i saw about the passport thing were about situations in the dominican republic and africa as well as one report i saw in brazil so i dont even base that on brazil, but,i have to ackowledge it exists (were all these reports false?).

and,i actualy apreciete that brazil is somewhat more liberal about prostitution than other places in the world , for sure not exclusivly.

and, a brazilian, as with blanchard, i am more in agreement with you about the overboard depiction of brazil being some sexual tourism destination or even worse some child sex destination ,but, i cant just state that it doesnt exist at all

and, i have seen girls under 18 independently on the streets trying to sell sex, but not doing it as selling child sex, but, just trying to sell sex

there are adds in the personels of the city i live that have girls 18 offering sex for 30 reals , the price of mccdonalds for two. large amounts.its hard to imagine that these girls just turned 18 and decided to sell sex.but,im in total agreement that there is nothing like a brothel that you can go to get under age sex,or any kind of subworld ring promoting it , with society just winking and giving it some kind of sanction. it exists like any other place in the world, in that there are always people anywhere who are capable of this , and, you see isolated cases in the news of police action busting these people....all over the world just like brazil

If you really want to see underage girls having sex, go to Lapa. If you want to see them having sex with gringos, go to Shenanigans.

But, oh, that's not a problem. It's only a problem when underage girls have sex and charge for it.

As for child abuse, what bothers me is the fact that people are always linking prostitution to it when we know for a fact that two things that are linked, without a doubt, to child abuse are family life and organized religion.

So a kid gets raped or trafficked and ends up turning tricks. Oh my GOD! Ban prostitution. But if Daddy rapes his daughter and she turns up tricking, no one says "Hey, let's ban the nuclear family!" Father/Patro/Rabbi/Imam Daniel molests little Billy the altar boy and no one says "Destroy all religions!"

Unfortunately, child abuse is widespread throughout all areas of society. There is no solid proof that it has any priviledged linkage to prostitution, more so than, say, the family or the church. Prostitution has become a scapegoat for this problem and that bothers me. It means that we really don't want to take a long hard look at what the problem actually is.

BtW, Asp, my point isn't and never was that child sexual abuse does not happen in thevred light district. But seriously: when was the last time you saw a dissenting view in the popular media? One which says "Hey, cool it. This isn't as huge a problem as people think and its solution isn't 'bust all prostitutes'?"

Yes that happens here in Brazil ! That`s why Americans and europeans
Love Brazil `cause they can come here and have a good old time with 9 year old and not get arrested for it !!
A Bunch of Dirty Hippocrates !!!

WOULD NOT TELL THE POLICE

as they would shut the places or us down .

hey just go to the beaches in RIO where all the gringoes hand out
dress like one and stay later than 12:00 pm as most beleive the vice police dont work after that time you should get results if you party like you dont care , when you get a bite tell them they are too old and you want something real young and will pay for it it may take a few but one will come up with a younger sister of a friend .

the web site okurt ? is bad for this sort of thing also

NONE :
so brazilians selling there young are not
dads & brothers raping there daughters are not .
women leaving there kids on the street because they dont want are not
police fronting for thies kids and taking money from them are not

knowing the promlum is there and not taking action on it is not
not offering help to the ones in need is not

people like you are the HIPPOCRATES

dont face your falts place the blame on someone else.

According to the Brazilian Federal Police's Sexual Exploitation Denunciation hotline, less than 0,01% of accusations of sexual predatory behavior involved gringos.

In fact, there are about 6 times as many accusations against priests and other religious figures as there are against gringos and you don't even want to KNOW what the accusation stats are for social workers and teachers. This data, btw, is in complete congruence with what we know about pedophilia in the U.S. and Europe.

The bottom line is this: pedophiles tend to gravitate towards where they have access to children. They also tend to abuse positions of trust and authority. Finally, the VAST majority of them are neighbors or family members.

The view of the typical pedophile as some greasy foreigner crooking a finger and saying "Come here, leetle geerl. I give you candy" is pretty much universal throughout the west and it is simply a lie. People believe it because they don't want to look at the kinds of folks who are most probably doing this sort of stuff.

So please do not tell me you are upset about pedophilia in Brazil if you adhere to the lie that there are millions of foreigners coming here to do this. There is no proof that this is the case and plenty of proof that it isn't.

By pitching this lie to the four winds, you actually make it HARDER to save kids from the vast majority of predators who really do exist, because your panic and bigotry forces the authorities to direct resources from fighting the real problem towards fighting ghosts.

WOULD NOT TELL THE POLICE

as they would shut the places or us down .

If I were you, I would follow the advice of Dr.Blanchette, who is a professor of a Federal University and the Research you guys are going to conduct will have more support from the authorities, if you are backed by a well known Federal educational institution. As for as I can observe, he has made a nice point from his experience in Rio and you are contesting him based on yours in the Nordeste.It is also worth re-reading the comments of Augustus who has made some interesting points.

As for the comment of Dr.Blanchette, addressed to me: I don't know if Cris an "Educator" or a Politician or a mix of both (I have run into this "mix" many times and found them boring). One thing I can tell ya is that UnB is full of professors who pay less attention to Education and more to their Political career. Look what happened to Tim Mulholland!

"Maybe would be good to talk to the police beforehand, too." - TB, although I really do appreaciate your views, etc., etc., I would have to side with forrest that you either are not for real or you don't live in Rio or you are far far separated from the more common folk.

What nights you typically take in a bite to eat and a couple of whatever's your poison at Shenanigan's? I'd like to know so I can go corroborate your story for forrest. I'll keep my eye out for you - more likely I could pick you out of the crowd than you would me.

Snake-eyes: You are welcome to express your view regarding the oldest profession. You should not however assume everyone has anything more than the smallest measure of agreement / connection with such views just because they don't take a firmly opposing stance. Since having felt seriously insulted to my core the first time I encountered one in a bar trying to pickup some bucks to feed her kids, I've become a bit more tolerant to those that think this is okay. As to the men, how lame, can't you just make a sweep through the local grocery store, pay the bill and help carry the bags back home? Clearly you've got the money to spare - why not see to it that it is used wisely? Not asking that you do a damb thing about trying to provide a bit of education, counsuling, entertain the kids, etc., etc, nor expend any of your precious "discretionary" time to do something good.

Seems we've fully come of age - paper or plastic - doesn't matter either way, by a larger and larger percentage of folks it just gets tossed.

I'm sorry, but I have met students of friends of mine who I KNOW are underage in Shenanigans and have seen them necking with gringos. One night at Lord Jim's, my wife and I listened in on two 16 years olds discussing how they were going to go back to a hotel with two obviously above 20 year old Brits. How do we know they were 16? Simple: they were talking about how they couldn't get into Devassa on Largo do Machado which, at that time, was carding everyone.

I'm not saying that Shenanigans gets children hitting on gringos, but let's use the same weights and measurements, shall we? If those sixteen years olds were doing what they were doing at Help, most people would consider it to be a horrible thing.

But if you're up to it, Simpleton, you can put your money where your mouth is. How about this?

We go along the Copa strip with two other neutral people and vote on the pros we see: under or overage? 3 votes in favor gets them classified in one or another category. We then go to Shenanigans on a Friday or Saturday night and do the same to the girls there and compare percentages later at the Irish Pub later. Loser pays a pint for all four researchers.

because if you are referring to me , you arent making any sence.so, im assuming you are referring to someone else, because if it was to anything i said , i have no idea what you are taling about

TB - yes now that you've expounded upon your point I will concede it but it was not the image your origial commentary seemed to try to convey. The kids at Essenhaus are just that, nothing more. Your offer for an outing is enticeing. We may take you up on that. Would it be fair for me to stack the deck with a very very preppy gringo teenager as one of the judges? Neutrality would be assured and if not, most likely be turned in your favor. I'll buy at least the first round of pints in any case.

Yes, asp, you agreed wholeheartedly that we could refer to you as snake-eyes in another thread some time ago. Think the reason I don't make any sense to you is you probably are not as whole hearted as you may think you are. The central element in what you have said thus far was that you had no problem whatsoever with prostitution. You are either for it or you are against it. Don't mask / qualify / quibble with your liberalization and consenting adults ideological bulls**t.

TB - yes now that you've expounded upon your point I will concede it but it was not the image your origial commentary seemed to try to convey.

You know as well as I do that if 16 year old girls were found to be turning tricks for 20 year old boys - just kids, as you call them - at Help, the media would be all over that like white on rice. It would be "Exploração Sexual de Menores" on all the front pages.

So the entire point of my comment is that "just kids" is never a concept which applies to commercial sex. I have never seen children turning tricks at Help or any of the gringo commercial sex venues. I'm sure, occasionally, one turns up from time to time. But the point is is that this whole social panic is based on two weights and two measures: Shenanigans is "just kids" while Help is "sexual exploitation of minors", even though Help cards and Shenanigans doesn't.

BtW, quite a few pros actually work the girlfriend angle at Shenanigans.

yeah, i am in favor of legal prostitution...

i see society all over the world , extremly hypacritical about prostitution and drug use...

i see huge amounts of money and recource being wasted on trying to arrest, prosicute and put in jail people involved in sale of sex by consenting adults.

i mean there are real crimes of violence, stealing ,white collar crime, extorcian , asaults etc that are the real problems that police authorities should be dealing with..

or ,are you one of the fools that think because im in favor of legalised prostitution that i am also in favor of child prostitution ?

i dont know what kind of uptight bulls**t position you come from , but, i never tried to hide the fact that i am in favor of legalising it . my profesion, while not being linced to prostitution, brings me in contact with it..all over the world, from new york,to rio, to hamburg, to recife,to miame, to paris, to rome , to florianopolis to chicago, to los angeles etc etc and i come to my conclusions from from my personal understanding and observation of that dynamic

and, im firm in my beleif and i could care less if you or the majority of people on here feel differantly

i never agreed to "snake eyes", or what ever, some chump used it , and , i could care less, but,i dont outright recognise if someone is using it directed at me. if someone wants to have a discusion they should address it to the name i used or i might not realise it.

...a lot of prostitution already IS legalized. Every time someone marries for money, what exactly are they doing if not prostitution?

The question isn't whether or not prostitution is legalized. In most countries it is as long as it occurs within the holy bonds of state and church approved matrimony.

The questions are:

1) What TYPES of prostitution should be banned? Even the most radical militant prostitute would aggree that sexual slavery should be banned.

2) What types of prostitution CAN be banned? I don't think, given our current socio-cultural structure, that we're going to make much headway against prostitution in/through marriage. And finally...

3) To what degree should an individual be in charge of their own body? I'm dead set against laws that punish men and women or black and white differently for the same activities.

I went back and checked (http://www.brazzil.com/article...mazon.html).

My mistake, Ric asked permission for the handle to be used and double-dot answered for you. Somehow I got two dots (called snake-eyes when rolled on a pair of dice) and asp (or adder if urapee'n) mixed up / intertwined.

TB - I've encountered the gregarious 16 year olds before but I would never classify them as "working" like the others of which you speak even if you overheard them say they hoped to come away from the encounter with some things and or some bucks. Regarding 3), I don't think it's a matter of the punishments defined in the law, inequallity rarely exists there, it's more of a matter of who the law gets enforced on under the local policias discretion (and or who has the insider connection / deal going with same - but in that situation the problem is settled "out of court" like many things in Rio).

TB - I've encountered the gregarious 16 year olds before but I would never classify them as "working" like the others of which you speak even if you overheard them say they hoped to come away from the encounter with some things and or some bucks.

So let me see if I understand: it's not sexual exploitation of minors when 16 year olds charge 20 for sex if they only do it occasionally and don't really "need" to do it (i.e. are middle class). Is that what you're saying, Simpleton?

Because that's certainly how it seems to work in practice.

listen , no problem about "snake eyes", like i said ,i dont care,i was just confused if you were addressing me, because your statements were vague to me

you know, im not the most educated person on here , for sure not the best speller, but, for the life of me,i cant understand what half the more educated people say on here . peoples ideas seem to be mumble jumbled out and come up vaugue

what i do have a problem with is implying my statements are "bulls**t"

im perfectly happy to have a discusion about this thread , but, if people start implying things like that, you dont leave me much room for anything else but to come back at you with the same . id much prefer to have a discusion than putting people down

ive stated my position blatently now, and,i dont know what your position is . i respect anyones differance of opinion , but ,not if they start disrespecting me in the process of discusion (yeah, i know that it is a cyber forum and what should i expect but cyber sock puppets saying things they would never say in a face to face conversation)

the world over TB. The middle class teens you and I both know do do this. Point well taken that it is not for making a living, nobody/nothing is making them do it. They are not unique to Copa nor to Brasil. It's more or less a passtime. As to the 20's taking them up on this - they are probably aware of the law but would tend to ignore it or just say "but she told me she was 18". They'd do that regardless of whether these particular "children" wanted to charge them or not.

Asp - as to the mumble, jumble, vague ... if you find that to be the case with me, no problem, it's oft times true. As to your stating your position blatently that was exactly my point. You did - for you, prostitution is tudo ok but with this and that and maybe one other thing having to be applied as qualification. Boil that down a bit and it's a yes or no question - you can chuck your qualification aspects right out the door. Neither I nor anyone else here is likely to blatently state their position regardless of whether it agrees or disagrees with yours. (And other than my trying to get you to question your ownself on this - I don't see anyone poking at / attacking you - you really need to get over that reactivity thing guy.)

But also first to the TWICE BORN IDIOT...A BRAZILIAN !
As to your reference of the swiss who raped his daughter for decades...etc etc....
Let me LAUGH....LAUGH...AND LAUGH AGAIN !
Sorry Dear Idiot, this was in Austria not Switzerland !!!!!!!!!!!!
You prove yourself HOW IDIOT AND IGNORANT YOU ARE....A BRAZILIAN !!!!
You too got a SP University Certificate for Geography Expertise....found in a detergent pack ?????

For Blanchette the Goat :
Funny in one comment you said "I have been looking for solid proof that such a thing exists for years and all I hear is rumors."
and then in another comment you wrote " If you really want to see underage girls having sex, go to Lapa. If you want to see them having sex with gringos, go to Shenanigans"
But if you re-read all your other comments only in this thread alone, you should notice many others contradictions....IN YOUR OWN COMMENTS !!!!!


You see dear JUNKIE, if you put your 2 hands in your eyes, you cant read or see anything ! right !
Then read this, but take off your hands first from your eyes :
"based on data gathered by Professor Maria Lúcia Pinto Leal, of the Brasília University (UnB).
According to the researcher, of the 5 thousand plus Brazilian municipalities, 930 present great numbers of cases of sexual tourism. She says that the Northeast leads the rank, followed by the Southeast, South, Central West and North regions."

then read this :
"Wednesday, 23 November 2005
Close to 2000 Brazilian Priests Caught in Sexual Misconduct"
Just for your information only ONE endeed up in jail !

But you may as well read the estimates from YOUR own Federal Police
" June 5, 2008
The Brazilian Federal Police estimate that 250,000 children are exploited for prostitution, although NGOs put the number as high as 500,000.
Brazil is a destination for the trafficking of men, women, and children from Bolivia, Peru, and the People's Republic of China (P.R.C.) for forced labor into factories in major urban areas of Brazil."

Not over yet dear cheater & liar.
If you also take out the mud filling your ears on top of taking your hands out of your eyes, why dont you watch more frequently
the TV Globo news.
They regularly show long (30-45 minutes) TV reporting coverage on that subject, made BY BRAZILIANS REPORTERS...NOT FOREIGNERS !!!!!!

THEREFORE...if you dont want to see the reality, it doesnt mean it doesnt exist as your doubts are.
It is like if you said that in Brazil you have never or may be once only were the witness of an homicide.
Sorry Ignorant Goat, it doesnt mean there are no homicide in Brazil or at worst only a few.
Especially when LOOKING AT YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT STATS !!!!!

If you dont want to read, see in Brazilian TV, or hear the sad reality....wellll you are typically the type of guy who is a regular client of children prostitution !!!! Because who else has an interest to hide the reality....outside
your filthy Politicians KNOWN TO BE PARTICULARLY FERVENTS FOR HAVING SEX WITH MINORS ????????

Therefore you dont even admit the sad reality and contradict your own comments, depending of your mood at the time of writing your comments !!!!!

Yesssssss...that is typically CHEATING, LYING AND HIDING, WETHER....A BRAZILIAN.... LIKE IT OR NOT, BECAUSE THUS FAR DESPITE HIS DISAGREEMENTS WITH MY COMMENTS, HE WAS NEVER YET ABLE TO PROVE WRONG....SADLY FOR HIM !!!!!!
Therefore disagreements without counter stats can only be full of air...at best, or full of mud...as usual !
Brazilians are experts !
Just look at your Robin the Crook....YOU ELECTED...AND RE-ELECTED !!!!!

Let me repeat once more : BRAZIL IS A HUMAN TRAGEDY, A TRAGEDY TO HUMAN DIGNITY ! AND YOU PROVE IT DAILY !!!!!
Why dont you come back on this statement....with factual stats and arguments ??????

you eventually should first look at the BRAZILIAN IN BRAZIL who killed and cut in pieces 42 CHILDREN.....after having raped them !


Ohhhh and by mixing up Switzerland and Austria...should incitate TV O'Globo to hire you for your investigative reportings expertise !
Shouldnt they ?????

Red faced or Blue Faced...by now ??????

You better be both !!!!

Junkies and idiots like you are quite entertaining !!!!
Therefore all together lets keep.... !

Somewhat true, since the majority are unemployed blacks in the area you mention.

What about your Planalto Palacio ? is it not Corruption Central ????
Somewhat true, since the majority are well paid but also corrupted to the roots politicians in the area I mention !!!

at clubes could be stoped by not letting underaged people in the clubes .
and placeing a fine for clube owners that let them in .

and also the parents of the kids and also the men and women that use them .

but that would involve the police doing there jobs instead of taking bribes to turn away . also not haveing sex with the kids them selves as a bribe .

if the sex is free with a minor ie (sport sex ) it is still a crime .

i some countries you get caught you eather have to marrie the child , or pay there parents money to get out of it ???

all we have said here is nothing until the goverments of the countries are changed out with poeple that truly care about the people .
instead of loading there pockets with money and having undre aged sex them selves

SO VOTE THEM ALL OUT THEIS YEAR OR JUST SHOOT THEM AS THEY HAVE KILLED EHOUGH OF US

...JUST SHOOT THEM AS THEY HAVE KILLED EHOUGH OF US...

Always nice to hear from the calm, collected, middle-of-the-road folks on this board.

As shocking as Newell’s story is, it is not unique, TODAY’s Natalie Morales said Thursday in a special report entitled “Sex Slaves in the Suburbs.” Advocates for girls and young women who are forced into prostitution by people who approach them in various ways, including on the Internet, claim that thousands of American youths are victims of human traffickers.

Like Newell, many are treated by law enforcement authorities as runaways, said Marc Klaas, who founded the advocacy group KlaasKids after his own 12-year-old daughter was abducted, raped and killed. When they are forced into prostitution, the young people are the ones who are prosecuted, Klaas told TODAY’s Meredith Vieira Thursday in New York.

“It turns upside down,” Klaas explained. “First of all, many of these kids are missing children. But what happens is when they’re trafficked, they’re turned into hookers; they’re turned into prostitutes. So we find this situation where we find these young victims, these young girls that all of a sudden are being treated and looked upon as criminals.”

At least in that regard, Newell was fortunate when she was abducted two years ago. Thanks to her mother and Klaas’ organization, which organized a search for her, she was rescued after three days. She’s gone public to warn other girls about how easy it is to be kidnapped and trafficked.

Sinister sleepover
A typical 16-year-old in a middle-class home in suburban Pensacola, Fla., Newell’s nightmare began innocently enough: A new friend she had met in high school asked her to come to her home for a sleepover.

Newell’s mother, Lisa Brant, didn’t like the idea, but after weeks of lobbying by her daughter, Brant met with the girl and the man she said was her father to make sure her daughter would be safe.

But the girl’s “father” was really a convicted felon, and the girl, who had a record of prostitution in Texas, was an accomplice in the abduction. “Her dad took us to this house and said he'd be right back and he left us there,” Newell recounted in a taped interview. “And I asked for some water because I was thirsty. And I drank the water and I blacked out.”

The water had been laced with a drug. When she woke up, Newell was groggy and couldn’t move.


Marc Klaas, whose KlaasKids Foundation works to stop crimes against children.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“My legs were being held down, and the guy that was raping me was holding my hands back,” she said in a quiet voice. “I kept screaming, ‘Stop, please don't do this. Leave me alone.’ But I was so weak, I couldn't fight them off. Like I was, I was so really out of it. And I blacked out a few times and I kept coming back to. And I was still being raped every time I woke up.”

Left alone for a moment, Newell managed to call her mother.

“My cell phone rang. And all I heard was, ‘Mommy, help me,’ ” Brant said. “And the phone went dead. And I freaked!”

She called police, but they told her that Newell had probably run away from home, and they wouldn’t be able to treat it as a missing-person case until 72 hours had elapsed.

“He was like, 'Oh, well, you know, there's nothing I can do. You know teenagers,’ ” Brant said.

A stroke of luck
With law enforcement unwilling to act, Brant and Newell’s siblings started their own search. They were fortunate in that Brad Dennis, an investigator for KlaasKids, was based in the area because the Florida Panhandle is an epicenter of human trafficking.

By sheer luck, one search party stopped at a convenience store for something to drink, and Newell’s 14-year-old brother spotted his sister in the back seat of another car that had stopped at the same store. She was rescued, but her abductors managed to flee.

After three days of being raped and beaten and drugged, Newell was dirty, bloody, bruised and barely alive. She was airlifted to a hospital and had to be resuscitated twice. In addition to her serious injuries, she had been infected with an STD.

Newell said that her captor told her she had been sold on the Internet for $300,000 to a man in Texas. Fortunately, she was rescued before delivery could be made. During Newell’s ordeal in Florida, her captor took money from a number of men who raped her. When she screamed, he held a gun to her head and threatened to blow her brains out.


TODAY
Lisa Brant, whose daughter, Shauna Newell, was abducted and gang-raped.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afraid for her life, Newell later moved in with her boyfriend and now has a child of her own. Her family continues to lobby for national legislation that will provide aid for Americans forced into the sex trade similar to aid that is provided for girls and boys who are brought into the country and forced into prostitution.

Vieira asked Lisa Brant what advice she has for other girls.

“Listen to your parents. Just don’t stop believing. Be strong,” she said. “Follow what your parents say fully, fully. There are people out there who will help you. Speak up. Everybody needs to speak up. Girls that have gone through this, they’re scared.”

An in-depth report by Morales on “Sex Slaves in the Suburbs” premieres at 10 p.m. ET Sunday, Oct. 12 on MSNBC.

For more information about the KlaasKids Foundation, visit klaaskids.org. If you have been a victim of an experience like Shauna Newell’s, you can e-mail the makers of “Sex Slaves in the Suburbs” at info@santokiproductions.com.

TODAY’s Natalie Morales said Thursday in a special report entitled “Sex Slaves in the Suburbs.” Advocates for girls and young women who are forced into prostitution by people who approach them in various ways, including on the Internet, claim that thousands of American youths are victims of human traffickers.

I always find that it's interesting that these folks claim that there are thousands - nay, MILLIONS - of victims and that IT'S GOING ON RIGHT NEXT DOOR!!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! But when pushed to show any proof at all that this is a raging epidemic, let alone one which has taken over the middle-American suburbs, they always hem, haw and push out some poor waif who's been through hell to do their talking for them.

Let's face it: child sexual abuse exists. It is relatively easy, unfortunately, to find aA (as in one, singular) survivor of it. But it is not easy to find these wide-spread child prostitution rings people talk about. In fact, in spite of hundreds of accusations, I'm hard-pressed to think of one example, at least in the west, which actually turned out to be true upon investigation and indictment.

So what the groups which make money off the scare tend to do is find "the poster child". This is one person who by-God has been abused and is willing to talk publically about it. In many cases, these people have serious psychological issues and their testimony would be questionable in a court of law. But get one of these folks up in front of a mike to rant away about how their life was ruined and thepathos of it all will make tears form in the eyes of even the most hardened cynic.

After that, watch how fast the checkbooks come out of the pockets at donation time.

Now, I realize that the lithium-taking crowd in our forum will misread what I just wrote as a negation of the fact that child sexual abuse exists. So let me be really clear for the reading-comprehension impaired: it sure as shooting exists. What does NOT exist, in any massive way in the west, is the kind of mass abuse by anonymous strangers that is being talked about above. This is the EXCEPTION, not the rule.

What is the rule, you ask?

Simple: the kid's family abuses them.

The data we have on this is VERY clear. Family members and close, intimate authority figures (preachers, priests, teachers, etc.) are by far the largest block of predators out there. Bar none.

Kinda casts a different light on Lisa Newell's comments, when she says...

Listen to your parents. Just don’t stop believing. Be strong.... Follow what your parents say fully, fully.

...doesn't it?

Father knows best, huh?

to say it does not happen is like saying

6 million JEWS DID NOT DIE IN THE TIME OF ww2

water is not basic to all life on earth

freedom is given away and never fought for .

politicans never lie and dont steal from the people

Did I say it didn't happen?

Let's just look at what I DID say, please. Is that too much to ask?

Let's face it: child sexual abuse exists.

Blanchette's words seem pretty clear, Forrest Brown. Do you have trouble reading English or does "child sexual abuse exists" mean "child sexual abuse does not exist" in your corner of the world?

Blanchette's words seem pretty clear, Forrest Brown. Do you have trouble reading English

I don't think that Mr.Brown has any trouble in reading or writing English, Joe. His target audience are the Brazilians and we do understand what he writes perfectly. So quit worrying.

But....But..., we, who are accustomed to Mr.Brown´s comments think that you are a pompous arsehole. Savvy?

as one reads it in the weastern world .

it is clear to me that in my many years of movment around the world it happens in all places in all back grounds rich and poor alike
weastern world or eastern world .again rich or poor nations

it is not something printed much in the news as it is a blite on the socity
as a hole .

just becaus you have not been in the loop on something does not mean it does not happen .

like the on avrage 4500 women and young girls killed in brazils northern state where LULA comes from it is not printed from PE , RECIFE

or guatmala where some 7500 women and grils are killed and raped each year .

the country of india where it is comon pratice to sell the young grils to the whore houses for money to buy food or a water buffalow.

Tibet where youg grils are sold into servitude for years to help out the familes.

its all over just like greed . starvation . poulition .

most of you have one chance in life to make it better but at what price
to sell your kids for a little some of money .
ro to prove your a man and have sex with someone that does not know any better as that is what she was use to at home .

you have free will granted by your GOD make the best of it .
as the politicans are going as far as to take away what was given by GOD to man

sleep well tonight my people

there is a fare wind and a full moon center yourself

find your place with yourself

I don't think that Mr.Brown has any trouble in reading or writing English, Joe. His target audience are the Brazilians and we do understand what he writes perfectly. So quit worrying.

Well that explains why the guy can't write a single clear sentence, then. He's writing for functional illiterates.

Brazilians never were big on reading comprehension. What can you say about 180 million people who still believe in witchcraft?

hOW CAN YOU
beleive in a government that makes one pay for the mistakes of the rich .

myself i pay $2.438 a month in taxes not to liclude what the US goverment
has just piled on top of it with the bail out .

i am about to send back all my US ID and claim no country and print my own money
as it would be worth more than that of the US as of now .

for a long time the US government has been selling the public a bill of goods
well now we have to pay for it , and the so called
political class along with there rich buddies are not going to pay a cent .

just thoes that make under $175.000 a year so i know you are in that pile of people .

and did you even read it the stuff they piled on top of it to make it pass well
we get screw again .

as for my spelling and grammer why should i care as i have told all here before .

i do as i please you still got my point , and the best thing you can come up with is a line out of a movie .

have you ever had an orignal though come out of your mind ?????????

(not that that takes a great deal of doing considering how I've felt about some of the people I've met, things that I've seen, in the backwoods pobre barrios) that you, dear double tawt (transposition of central letters intended), actually seem to have a heart and concience (as compared to our appearant newcommer J StricklySlander - no offense jo-all but forrest is basicly off-limits, read carefully and learn).

As to functionally illiterate Brazillians I've had some recent experience to let you know that they are not, even ones that are apparently reasonably positioned within society, respected, well appearanced, reportedly impressive individuals within thier community. There seems to be little functionally litterate about them, but then again, maybe I'm mistakeing the cultural tendancy towards avoiding promptness, revealing of any more detail than you think you can get away with, making commitments, etc., etc., with reading comprehension deficits.

myself i pay $2.438 a month in taxes not to liclude what the US goverment
has just piled on top of it with the bail out .

You have a job that pays so well you need to pay 2,438 USD a month in taxes and yet you can't write a simple sentence?

Riiiiiiight.

You have a job that pays so well you need to pay 2,438 USD a month in taxes and yet you can't write a simple sentence?

You are really a dumb arse. Aren't you, mate? Keep us entertaining.

Yep, forrest has not been nearly as successful as he has previously made himself out to be. Even moving to the the high seas / off shore, he still can't manage to sever all fiscal ties to the country he served well - keeping his in-country non-wage income down to the level he has is still to his credit. Plselt nrowg si uchs a robplem rof mose lepoepes I uesgs ne' anldubbler?

JS yes i am paid well for my work .

and my world is round i have not found a conor on it yet,

and do you know some of the best producers spell and make sentences as i do

simpleton to cut all tyes is close to imposible thies days as you have to be a
member of one country or another , i have even went to
Malta to try to become a citisen of the world am still working on it .
as for my pay am paid off shore through my company in the US just in case SS last till i reach retirment age . but the bulk of my cash are in TORTOLA banks and coulmbia .

functionally illiterate Brazillians and other peoples from around the world that i have met are some of the best people as they have lived a life so few
have or could but made it

my father in law is one of them but at his age he still set down with his grand kids and learns from them .

and my world is round i have not found a conor on it yet

Would that be Sara or John that you're looking for there, Forest?

so you like the fact you are having to pay
for something you did not buy or want ????

so you are a dem by your post ??
did you here there new joke about sara

what is the differenc from your
vagina and your mouth
A
only a one thing that
came out of your vagina
is retarted .

and this is who you would vote for !!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, Forrest, but that last post was completely unintelligible.

sorry you dont understand the people

you must be from the political class

with all there political correctness that is killing
all the countries of the world

...I think Joe is saying that he doesn't understand YOU. For that matter, looking over what you wrote above, I can't understand it either. That joke, for example, is completely opaque to me. I haven't the slightest idea what you're trying to say there.

Serious question: is English your native language? If it isn't, your errors are understandable.

more of you TB before your last post. It has given me pause to consider just how valuable "good upbringing" and a "1st world" education might actually be. Not being to able to understand, lacking vision beyond the surface (how many and which finger am I holding up? still a bit opaque for you?), having not a clue of how to follow along with concepts put forth by kinds other than your own . . . and then to put forth a shallowly masked put down. Guess it really does take all kinds.

Actually, it's an honest question, Simpleton. Forest's posts are pretty damned unintelligible to me and I'd sincerely like to know if the reason is that he's still practicing his English.

As for "good upbringing" and "1st world education", who ever claimed I had either? I'm not even sure what a "1st world education" is, exactly, and I don't even want to guess as to what "good upbringing" is supposed to mean.

assuming what is clear, sensible, logical, practical, common sense, "intelligible", etc., etc., to me should be so to all others. Sorry for not understanding that you just plain don't understand forrest.

You've been around here long enough one would think you knew that forrest has no inclination / desire to "practice his English". He's explained himself on the subject many many times and I've not seen him nor anyone else expressing the thought that having proficiency in it or practicing to get to that point was an issue of any importance. Why now this expression of sincereity on your part? (Besides that, pool tables just don't go well on boats - go figure.) Since no one, including yourself, is claiming you had a good upbringing I guess you can be forgiven. When reading between the lines I'm finding you rather unintelligible. If you are brazillian, I'd like to know from which part so I can endeavor to avoid it.

Just read the words as they are written and stop trying to read between the lines.

As for Forest, far be it for me to chew on somebody's ass for the occasional grammatical or spelling error. Lord knows I make enough of them myself. But what concerns me is when someone's prose is completely uninelligible - and by that I mean you can't tell what they are trying to communicate.

Take Forest's joke for example. "What's the difference from your vagina and your mouth A Only a one thing that came out of your vagina is retarded"? What the hell...? I meran, I get the fact that it's a joke about Palin. Check. And I understand it's supposed to be a comparison between her vagina and her mouth. But I'll be dipped in bean dip if I can figure out that punch line. Even trying to translate it to Portuguese doesn't help in the slightest. It has no logic to it at all.

Forst would be a genius if he were actually intending to write this sort of dadaist poetry, but if that were his objective, why waste it here? Surely his light can shine more brightly somewhere wher such inspired arrant nonsense can be truly appreciated for the fine babble that it is?

I'm in Rio de Janeiro and please do avoid it, by all means.

You've managed to be an even more pompous ass than Blanchette, which is something I'd thought impossible. "Pool tables just don't go well on boats"... yuck, yuck. Aintchew a clever one? Keep trying, man: you'll soon be able to write gibberish with the best of them. Take a few cues from Forest, though and stop being so linear.

Just remember: a shyster from Chicago rebuilds the acrobatic carnation.

it means that
the dems beleive that ever thing that comes out of her mouth is retarted ,
but only 1 of her 4 kids that came out of her vagina was,
so she better as a baerer of children than that of the presidental office

people try to read more into it than they need to .

some form of english is my native toung but with 5 others running aroung
in there it gets a bit bussy .

PS you can have a pool table on a boat just dont try to play under way

TB, I think you did not read the words that were written. I know you are IN Rio. (I think you and I were setting up a date for a little categorization / voting session and beer drinking outing, which, with any luck will be coming up soon.) What I don't know is IF you are a Brasileiro and IF so, what part of our grand and glorious country did you come from originally.

PS: you can play underway but the size of the stabilization tanks needed is a bit more than what you've got going for you Forrest. At least you're not a Sickly Landlubba from shystertown. FIBs, just can't seem to get away from the most pompous assis known on the planet.

Congrats, Simpleton!

I am enchanted with your psychoanalysis on Simpleton and Blanchette , thus classifying them both as pompous arses. While I am not familiar with this Blanchette fellow, I have been articulating with Simpleton for months and let me assure you, my dear fellow, that he is not a pompous arse, like you claim. He is what he is, a Simpleton who is "functionally VERY literate". You may not believe it, but the fact remains.

As for your constant harping on Mr.Brown´s (supposed) inability to write prim and proper English: If I were you, Old Chap, I would pay more attention to what the sailor says than nitpicking on his writing skill in English. Take my advice or leave it.

BTW, you are (what we call in Brasil) one hell of a "Pavão". I am sure you are pleased with my compliments which you richly deserve.

Since when has remarking on functional illiteracy become "nitpicking"?

Did George W. really lower educational standards that much?

Did George W. really lower educational standards that much?

Who is this fellow George W.? Never heard of him. Is he anyone of importance?

with all that goes on in the world and that ,that precludes our lives whitch
includes our lives

the simple text would set people off , but do you reed what needs to be read or
just scan over thingd till something hits your eye you dont understand ?????

I reed and comprehend very well in several toungs the act of putting down on paper for me is to slow as i do not type as fast as i think ,
any important matters in that field i have a paid lady that has worked for me for some 22 years and she reads me very well , and i email her with my paperwork
to make my penmanship as intelegent as what people pay me for .

yes you could set up a pool table with the right equipment but not worth the money to me .

try ping pong on a rolling deck adds a bit to the game .

the simple text would set people off , but do you reed what needs to be read or
just scan over thingd till something hits your eye you dont understand ?????

I am afraid that Sickland chap doesn't read anything.Nor comes out with any concrete suggestions as how to make the 180 Million natives functionally more literate. If he reads anything, he would have answered my question regarding this George W. fellow.

May be a 3 months stint on your vessel as a deck hand will do this young fellow some good. However, any alternative suggestion from your part is most welcome.

Although I can VERY much appreciate the unusual and yet somehow stimulating and tender nature of your articulating digit swirling ever so near my orifice, I do not think you have much chance of the cick poofy coming forth prematurely to your beckoning Dot-Dot. I think you've been caught speaking to yourself. Perhaps he's read you better than you think (or has already shot his wad and lost interest). Doubtful that he or Thad has endeavored to be studious / open minded enough to actually go back and try to ken what our honorable forrest has, in his way, tried to elucidate us upon.

PS: pong - now that's something your mac should do well with dear Captain, How 'bout Daleks?

I think you've been caught speaking to yourself

No, old chap. I think that the young Urchin has to be deployed on deck duties and if he disobeys the commands of the Captain, should be flogged.That is the law stipulated by the Admiralty.

the act of putting down on paper for me is to slow as i do not type as fast as i think

Well, then there's excellent hope for some self-improvement, there Forest. After all, any moron can learn how to type.

the act of putting down on paper for me is to slow as i do not type as fast as i think

Well, then there's excellent hope for some self-improvement, there Forest. After all, any moron can learn how to type.

I DONT CARE ABOUT PROPRE SPELLING OR GRAMMER .
while writeing to the likes of you !!!!!!!!!

end of story

so bring something good to the board or
go back to the negitive form you came from

go back to the negitive form you came from

Go back to Pitcairn ? Good suggestion.

I understand that you're a half-step away from being functionally illiterate and that, in order to protect your self-esteem, you've developed a huge defensive complex.

But that's OK, my boy. I understand that you're crying inside. Really, I do. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Might I suggest some comic books for a start? Those are a great aid to learning the basics of a language, as you have pictures to help you out. What you do is READ the comics and then COPY their words. Don't worry: it's quite easy if you stay away from the tough, adult-oriented stuff. Richie Rich or Scrooge McDuck would probably a good place for you to start.

Take heart, my lad! Look at George W. Bush: he was basically functionally illiterate as an adult, too, and eventually he rose to become President of the United States. Of course, he also had Condoleeza Rice as a private tutor, but I'm sure you can find some Jamaican boiler mechanic on your ship who'd be happy to help you with your English for a small fee.

Don't worry Forest! There are plenty of people who are willing to help you!

as for my life i am doing a lot better than you ever have or will ,

unless you are one of the people whom live of the government as so many

do .

I own the boat i am on thank you ,

and now an end to you no more will i be draged into a conversation with the likes of you ,
it a waste of my time and a drain on other peoples reading to try to explain myself to
some one as small mimided as you

by now go back back to your beer some wone bought for you

I own the boat i am on thank you...

The shrimpin' bizniz doing good these days, Forrest?

Most of the bloggers that come here have absolutely no clue about FIBs (just as FIBs have no clue about others). Sorry to have to try to give them some sort of excuse for your behavior but clearly somebody must.

Regarding forrests area of expertise (other than right minded thought but without the grace of typing and spelling on the fly in a way that "satisfies" some folks' overly inflated images of themselves while they themselves lack comprehension skills above Kndrgrtn lvl), you might or might not be aware that the deep sea repair and salvage biz is one heck of a bit different and can be incredibly more lucrative than shrimpin'.

you might or might not be aware that the deep sea repair and salvage biz is one heck of a bit different and can be incredibly more lucrative than shrimpin'.

This is beyond SickLand´s comprehension,old chap. If I were you, I wouldn't dream of educating a paper pusher as how to identify lucrative business opportunities. Even though Sir.Forrest is a very patient bloke, I am afraid he has given up on Sickland.

Ahn. So Forest is a glorified junkman who watched too many episodes of "Mysteries of the Deep" and who's now spending the cash daddy left him when he died? Now I understand why he isn't much for skoolin'. That'd mean he'd actually have to go out and make money like the rest of us.

and mine and a few others as well, all combined, it doesn't match up even close to Skippy's real education, etc., etc.. Clearly you have the mentality of a working stiff, but then again, in the right locales, there are those that would pay a premium just for the kicks of making your kind of hardon go away the hard way. I think you need to take that "Sold Out" sign and glue it to your bunda. (No, not the one you see when you crane your neck around to look as often as you seem to do Jock Strapland, the one you open every time you speak.)

Yes, it is my job to hang out on Brazzil.com and polish Forest's knob. It's what he pays me to do, in fact, and as long as the trust fund holds out, you can rest assured that you'll be seeing my head bobbing up and down like a gooniebird's while Cap'n Forest valiantly pilots his garbage scow around the seven seas, looking for recyclables.

no trust fund here .

made my money on my own .

not a grabage scow , but it is paid for by me

as for your homo sexual tendinces toward me . NO THANKS