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In Brazil, the Racial Democracy Myth Lives Forever PDF Print E-mail
2005 - January 2005
Written by Guy Burton   
Sunday, 23 January 2005 11:23

Carnaval bloco in Salvador, Bahia, BrazilAs Brazil’s new mayors take up their positions it is worth reflecting on the state of Brazilian democracy and that commonly maintained fiction, that of ‘racial democracy’.  The idea is based on the notion of harmony between Brazil’s different races; that unlike South Africa and the American South there have never been any tensions between them.

It’s not really true though.  Prejudice does exist and blacks find themselves commonly in the poorest stratum of society.  But the myth persists; aided by the lack of legally mandated segregation under which black Brazilians lived. 

Even under slavery many blacks were free.  The result of this has been a relatively weaker black consciousness movement.

It hasn’t been helped by the fact that in Brazil race is seen more as a continuum, from white to black and every shade in between. 

So, unlike the US where race is a sharp dichotomy (you’re either black or white), in Brazil you can be white, ‘dusty white’, ‘coffee with milk’ and ‘light-brown’ – before you even get to the blacker end of the spectrum. 

The result is that no one knows how many Brazilians are actually black – it could be 10%.  Or it could 70-80%.

However, the racial democracy myth has proved enduring.  It has meant that attention has been diverted elsewhere to explain why black Brazilians suffer the most social and economic deprivation. 

Marxists, unsurprisingly, claimed it was down to class.  But that failed to explain, as the social scientist Carlos Hasenbalg has suggested, why the opportunities for white and non-white Brazilians are not the same. 

In one analysis he showed that non-white involvement in the economy tended to be concentrated in the unskilled and unpaid sectors, meaning less income and consumption levels. 

This inequality as perpetuated over time, constantly reinforcing their position at the bottom of the economic pile.

Hasenbalg’s findings showed that if a white and a non-white person found themselves in the same lowly position, the white person had a better chance of escaping, through social mobility, education and job opportunities. 

For the non-white, more often than not, his or her position would remain the same, no matter what.  Race then, can be seen as both cause and effect in this respect.

So what’s to be done?  The logic of Hasenbalg’s study would seem to be the provision of opportunities for non-whites, including better education and job prospects.  But one thing he failed to show in his findings was where the poor lived.

Brazil has been caricatured as two countries: the industrialised Southeast, with the engine of the country’s economy in and around Sao Paulo – and Rio and Porto Alegre to a lesser extent; and the impoverished, rural Northeast – the source of many of Brazil’s internal migrants. 

A quick glance at he two region’s demography also shows that the south tends to be white, in the north the population is overwhelmingly non-white.

If the Northeast is to develop the necessary jobs and social opportunities, which non-whites will need to escape their economic position, then it’s going to need the redirection and redistribution of resources to make it happen. 

This is a challenge to the current government, especially so after the election results.  While the main opposition, the  PSDB,  swept the cities of the richer states, the governing PT saw its mayoral candidates triumph in seven state capitals in the North and Northeast, including Recife and Fortaleza.

At the end of November, Marta Suplicy, the former PT mayor, blamed Lula’s economic policy for her defeat in São Paulo.  This was followed by the party’s national directorate inviting the Finance Minister, Antonio Palocci, in for a chat about the direction the government is taking.

He was helped by a letter signed by the PT’s new mayors claiming they were happy with that line. 

Social policies like the bolsa escola (where parents are paid a sum to send their children to school instead of having them work), Zero Hunger and the Family Health Program were cited as some of Lula’s achievements, along with the government’s control of inflation and drive for economic growth.

All very well, but hardly a departure from the previous Fernando Henrique Cardoso government (1995-2002), which failed to systematically change the fortunes of non-whites in the North. 

A northeasterner who migrated to São Paulo as a child himself, Lula must be aware that to a large extent the fate of his government will be based in large part on the perception of those like him in the Northeast who voted for his party colleagues as mayors.  They will expect the government – and the mayors – to enact measures to lift them out of poverty.

As the new mayors settle down to their already full in-trays in their offices they will recognise that they have a popular mandate to make the necessary changes. 

But having adopted an orthodox economic policy and an acceptance of the market (this month saw votes on the government’s first set of public-private partnerships), the question must be how it’s going to be done. 

Only if the government and its mayors can square that circle and provide meaningful reforms, which will improve the prospects of the Northeast’s non-white population, might we start to see a truly ‘racial democracy’.

Guy Burton was born in Brazil and now lives in London. A postgraduate student at the Institute for the Study of the Americas, University of London, he has written widely on Brazil both for Brazzil and on his blog, Para Inglês Ver, which can be read at http://guyburton.blogspot.com. He can be contacted at gjsburton@hotmail.com.



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Comments (47)Add Comment
Slavery
written by Guest, January 24, 2005
You say that blacks in Brazil usually work in "unskilled and unpaid sectors..."

If you didn't make a wording mistake--unpaid for underpaid--, than I'm assuming you are suggesting that slavery in Brazil is still widespread. Is that so?

In fact, we have heard news of slavery in contemporary Brazil, however, one thing is saying that this country is still plagued by this scar, whatever its size, and another thing is saying that blacks in Brazil usually do unpaid word.
The article
written by Guest, January 24, 2005
First, while slavery in Brasil is not "wide spread" it is still a problem in the rural areas, but it is not limited to blacks. The disparity between races is obvious and historic, the white ruling class still wields the power here in Brasil. The picture that Brasil attempts to paint of racial equality, as the author states is not accurate. Racism runs rampant through Brasilian society. The authors note, that he feels perhaps the "different shades" of colors here in Brasil has prevented any real effort as in the American Civil Rights Movement of the 60's & 70's, something to think about. If this is accurate, then perhaps it is not so much racism, but the people of Brasil not being more aware of race in their society. I think that while racism is present, people here are tolerent...I hope this is not confusing. I have lived in the US as a student, if a group of blacks in dread locks approach white citizens, the whites will attempt to avoid any eye contact or interaction. Here, that is not the case, white and blacks DO live and work in close quarters, so there is none of this overt attempts by the races to avoid each other, it is not possible. Just last night I attended a samba rehearsal at Rio's Sambodromo, the rehearsals are free, and the only chance for Brasil's poor to view the parade, as the real tickets are now selling for US$160.00, and Carnaval will be for tourists. I was one of a minority of white looking people in the stands of over 50,000 people, I had taken my 14 and 8 year old son. I did not feel out of place, or unsafe. The thought of not being there because most people where black was not considered. In fact, we had a great time, drinking beer, dancing and sweating together...perhaps this is something we can build on. Could a person, white in color feel comfortable in a large gathering of mostly black people in the US or Europe? I'm just asking, I don't know. The subject of race will have to be dealt with in the near future in Brasil, it is not enough to turn a blind eye. If we are to really progress as a country over the next several decades, we must provide opportunity for all of our people.
Typo
written by Guest, January 25, 2005
To the first poster: thank you for your keen eye. It should have read 'underpaid', not 'unpaid'. I think the typo muct have appeared when I was transferring the text onto the system.
The biggest apartheid in the world
written by Guest, January 25, 2005
Brazi unfortunately is the biggest apartheid in the world. Negroes, Natives, and mixed do not have so much chance. Therefore, Brazil looks like a poor country in the land of the plenty.
Maybe
written by Guest, January 25, 2005
But Apartheid was ended in South Africa, why not here. Why are not blacks, indios, and people of color not more forceful in their demands for changes and equality in Brasil ? It is perplexing, the situation must be different than that of South Africa. Interesting things to think about.
Castro\'s parrots!
written by Guest, January 25, 2005
Castro repeats this mantra ad nauseum in his Workers Gulag. For a more balanced view see www.olavodecarvalho.org
...
written by Guest, January 26, 2005
everybody has the same chances. Some know how to take it. Others do not.

A poor black has the same chances as poor white. Brazilian class gives less chances to poor people, since blacks started as poor, their process of social climbing is much slower than that of whites, because many whites started well of in Brasil.

But poor uneducated whites do have the same chances as poor uneducated blacks.
Same chances I think not
written by Guest, January 26, 2005
I dont think everyone have the same opportunities in Brazil neither USA, and Europe. If you take a look at history you can see that the whites (not all) had a better chance of becoming successful than a black person because it what easier for them(white) to be accepted in an all white elite society. Now press fast forward and you'll see alot have changed around the world for people of color but in particular in Latin America blacks are not respected(accepted) on a professional level. For example, its an assumption a black brazilian woman would be the cleaner in an office building rather than a top executive.

What I'm trying to say is its hard for people to let go of their stereotypes and hand me down racism whether it be intentionally or an assumption.

On another note someone mention that a white brazilian would feel comfortable around a majority of blacks than their white counterparts up North which is so so true. Its inevitable for a white brazilian not to interact with a black brazilian. Thus, the social atmosphere is better of than the economical atmosphere.. Once these barriers are broken then Brazil will be a better place for ALL brazilians...
Equality in Brasil
written by Guest, January 26, 2005
My thought is that the inequaliy in Brasil is more in the economic disparity, than it has to do with race. The fact is, because of Brasil's history, the majority of the citizens have some African blood, some more than others, but here we have all shades of Africa. It's a fact of our history, that the Poruguese who came here did not bring women, and they had familes with their black slaves. The white elite realy do hold the balance of power in Brasil, and the majority of the money here. As one poster said, "the rich from Brasil, are REALLY rich". But the people who are discriminated against are the poor, all shades. Unfortunatly, most black Brasilians fall into the poor and middle class majority, and are easily identified as being poor because of their color. As one poster says, there is so much day to day interaction between light and dark Brazilians, race becomes more of a blur, and poverty and the neighborhood you live in become more of a discriminating factor. If you apply for a job in Rio for example, even a low wage one, and you give your address as one of Rio's hundreds of Favelas, think your going to get the job? This type of discrimination is illegal here, but it happens all the time. Rio's slums have a very good mix of light and dark Brasilians, this is the type of discrimination in Brasil, not so much someone's color.
My Own Prejudice
written by Guest, January 26, 2005
I will boldly expose my own prejudiced view, which I think obviate the the "ethnic" bias which existed and probably still exists in many segments of Brazilian society. It also mau illustrate some of the latest points.

As a young graduate student in Brazil, in the early 90s, I was part of a small but dynamic group at the University of Sao Paulo. We constantly had visitors, which were not always received cordially by our thesis supervisor ("orientador"). We used to bet at whom he would scream. Lo-and-behold, there comes one day a typical "Nordestino" type -- short, thin, and ethnically distinct. I did think this guy was a janitor. Or some member of the genaral public with some silly question. We (my colleagues and I) thought he would be the out of that office so fast, that he wouldn't even know what hit him. Well, time went by, and to make a long story short, this fellow came to be a brilliant post-doc, which greatly contributed to our personal growth as scintists.

This episode opened my eyes. Although I think that many yers yet passed until that day's lesson finally sunk in (you see, I was young and utterly stupid), it is still a constant personal reminder of the biased nature of the environment I was in.

Today, I embrace diversity, and can only hope that we'll find positive ways to lessen or to eliminate social and ethnical "profiling" in Brazilian society.
...
written by Guest, January 27, 2005
Racism and white supremacy is worldwide, I don't care what country you live in. In America the black population is only 12% so white Americans generally do not have to interact with blacks whereas in some cities in Brazil you do have a large black population. I will admit, American racism is the worse on the planet but racism is not absent in Brazil either.

If Brazil does not want to end up a racist hate-filled country like the United States, she will have to acknowledge her racism and take steps to improve it. White Americans are 100% against improving their race relations with the result that America produces the most narrow-minded bigoted socially retarded citizens.
...
written by Guest, January 27, 2005
Ditto!
my 2 cents
written by Guest, January 27, 2005
united states racism worser than brasilsz?

don't think so.

how many blacks in brasil are in govermental areas, high politics, teachers and proffesors in colleges?

how many black brasilians live in nice big houses?

none.

africans amrerican blacks and other blacks have better oppurtunity than a native black brasilian anyday!

there are laws against segregation does brasil have those?

can you sue anyone from discrimination in brasil for any discrimination? i bet not

soone said in the united states there is only black and white? wrong are u smoking?

theres

black
white
native american
asian
hispanic/latino is not a race

Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (including persons of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.)

oh yeah
written by Guest, January 27, 2005
do black brasilias have a network channel like african americans do on cable etc called b.e.t?

i don't think so!

whites know what black music is and its sad to say many of them have turned to that crap

african american music
rythm and blues
jazz
rap/hip hop
Black Americans Do Not Own
written by Guest, January 27, 2005
BET. BET was sold to Time Warner Inc. Next month the black magazine Essence will follow suit. Black Americans appear to have far greater opportunities because there are far less black people in America. Black people in America still occupy the lowest rungs on society's ladder (that is if they're able to get on it in the first place). True there are slightly better economic advantages for all Americans, but those opportunities are still largely limited to those African Americans who are exceptionally intelligent, driven, gifted musicially or athletically. Few venues are open to average or below average blacks as compared to other racial or ethnic groups who do not have to have the same level of skill to achieve equal or greater success. The old saying a black has to be 10 times as good as any other race to be get 1/10th as far still holds true today.
You can go to any large city in America and you will find a Japan town, China Town, a Middle Eastern District and a Latino district of viable thriving businesses, restaurants, banks, etc. How many black districts exist in America?

Just because a few black Americans were able to jump over tremendous odds to "success" does not mean the vast majority are well off.
One sided
written by Guest, January 27, 2005
Re: "If Brazil does not want to end up a racist hate-filled country like the United States"

European anti-semitism is far worse than any race attitude in the US. Hitler would be proud of you for spreading his propaganda!
Re: my 2 cents
written by Guest, January 27, 2005
You like prrof the racism in U.S. is far worse? That's easy...Remember KKK? Burning black folks and still alive in your bigot country. What about separate toilets and water fountains? Tell me of the lack of African culture in the U.S.? Culture that is very much alive and vibrant in Brazil: Samba, candomble, capoeira, maculele, comida baiana and the list go on... In Brazil we called Mother Africa, in the U.S. you run scared of it.
Atoto baluae atoto baba!!!
KKK Still Alive
written by Guest, January 28, 2005
The KKK, along with 500 other white supremacist organizations are very MUCH alive in the US and supported by the US govt. If a black family tries to move into a white neighborhood many times they will still have a burning cross on their lawn (that is if they are able to purchase a home there in the first place).

European anti-Semitism cannot compare to the history of anti-black hatred in America. At least the Nazis were brought to trial and were forced to pay reparations to the victims of the Holocasut. That is more than you can say for the United States govt. Blacks weren't give a penny in compensation and the US still supports hate groups against blacks.

That's why black Americans visit Brazil. To get some of the African culture that was taken from us and to even be able to walk down a street (at least in Salvador) and not be stared at with menacing looks that he has to put up with when walking down a street in the US
Canadian, married to a Brazilian
written by Guest, January 28, 2005
The comments are more interesting to read than the article itself, especially when it gets completely off-topic.
A couple of quick observations:
a) every country has its economic divides and most are regionally-based. It can be convenient to say they are racially based.
b) the race card is played out in every country around the world, but if this is about unequal opportunity, then explain why Jewish people, as a group, are so very successful? No other group has been more stigmatized, ostracized, persecuted than they - yet they usually come out on top. Just wondering.
c) don't hold up South Africa as a role model. Since apartheid was "ended", I have been back to South Africa 3 times and each time there is a slow, obvious degradation in the quality of life there, shades of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe. Besides, the blacks vastly outnumber the whites in South Africa, so it is really a unique situation.
I am having my first visit to Brazil in three weeks and I look forward to visiting many regions of the country to see for myself what a grand country it is.
FYI, in Canada, the only news we ever get about Brazil are prison riots, people jumping out of burning skyscrapers and the latest Embraer/Bombardier scuffle.
Tchau!
Re Re: my 2 cents
written by Guest, January 28, 2005
You like prrof the racism in U.S. is far worse? That's easy...Remember KKK? Burning black folks and still alive in your bigot country.

yes they are still alive in the united states



What about separate toilets and water fountains? Tell me of the lack of African culture in the U.S.?

wrong! if you know the history of the united states you know that african culture was prohibited.

also there is a culture of the gullah and geechee tribes of african americans living in the southern sea islands look them up.
the africans and renegade indians made a tribe called the seminoles
the gullah and geechee maintained african culture why? look where they were compared to inland african americans


Culture that is very much alive and vibrant in Brazil: Samba, candomble, capoeira, maculele, comida baiana and the list go on... In Brazil we called Mother Africa, in the U.S. you run scared of it.

mother africa? lol yeah right your racist blancas don't even like the pretos but yet they still dance to their rythms talk about hypocrits and the u.s has laws against racism what does brasil has rathyer you believe me or not african americans are way ahead of black brasilians.

slavery was still going on in brasil way after it ended in the united states even though my fathers never made it possible for blackcs to succeed in many towns back then blacks were doing well than whites then whites would burn down their houses and stores.

oh yeah there are many townes that have large black population there is no need for african americans to call there towne little china after all they are americans not immigrants.

harlem, ny is a historic african american section in manhattan.
atalanta, dc

US vs Brasil?
written by Guest, January 30, 2005
The US has made great strides in regards to racisim in the last 50 years, but how can we deny that racisim is still not a problem in America. White posters writting about racisim is almost comical. How can you possibly understand something you don't expereince. Have you even been pulled over by the police because of the color of your skin? Or denied a job? Or a home loan? Either have I, so I won't claim to know what it is, but am educated enough to know it exisits. But while racisim must exist in Brasil, it is very different. As a percentage, Brasil has many more people of color, but the discrimination here, has to do with not so much the color of your skin, but the size of your bank account. Dark and light poor are equally disadvanted...perhaps this is a racial democracy. Still, in Brasil, Brasilians are much more comfortable living among people of color. One, their heritage is on of Africa, as the large majority of Brasilians have some African blood, this is seen in everyday life and tradition no matter what the color of your skin. Perhaps I can illustrate the difference better. In the US, if a white couple sees two black youths walking towards them, perhaps with shorts, tennis shoes and a basketball jersey (not a sterotype, just the current fashion), that couple will cross the street to avoid them because of fear of even making eye contact. While a white soccer fan in Brasil has no trouble living among blacks, and is comfortable being one in 20 at a large soccer game. So what is the answer "is Brasil a racial democracy" or is it another South Africa?
A Black American\'s Obervations. The Uni
written by Guest, January 31, 2005
I am a black american who has been to brazil two times. I have visited Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro and Salvador. I read where it was mentioned that the concept of race is much more sharper or clear cut where you are either black or white. This I believe to be true! When I was in Brazil I met this brazilian lady who was a supervisor in an American company who told me she was not labeled as black but a Preto. I said to myself, and told her, if she was living in the United States she would be just considered black! The only way a person with any African blood
could be considered white in America is if they look totally european, and people cannot see anything else, and
there have been black americans to pass as white seeking greater opportunity. I think it is true that African culture survived much better in Brazil, but I think that is due to several factors that go back to the slave trade. The fact is Africa is much closer to Brazil, so many more Africans were brought there more easily thus reinforcing African culture. This reflects in the population with USA at 12-13 percent black and Brazil with 33-45 percent of
african blood. I also think that since for a period of time the African population outnumbered the whites they
had to come up with all these other racial divisions such as preto, cafe etc, in order to divide. In American blacks
have always been less in number compared to whites so the white slaveholding states had less to worry about.
I think this has resulted in the brazilian of african ancestry having a harder time in identifying what to fight.
The brazilian lady I mentioned earlier told me she would rather know who and what she is fighting than not know.
Black Americans are still behind whites in what they earn in wages, economically and in political power. I would
be the first to admit that, but there does seem to be more blacks in America in political positions such as
Secretary of State( Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice) and the Supreme Court (Clarence Thomas), than you would
see in Brazil. Also about BET (the black entertainment television station). BET was owned by an American black
whose name was Johnson. He sold it to Time Warner, and then Johnson became the first black billionaire (in USD)
in the United States. Now Time Warner has merged with AOL the internet provider to become AOL-Time
Warner. AOL-Time Warner is headed I believe by a black man who is the CEO! I will also admit that many American
blacks have used the fields of entertainment (singers, actors), and sports to become famous like Black Brazilians.

blah blah
written by Guest, January 31, 2005
just cause many brasilaians have african blood does not make them that
just as some whites here may be decendants of slaves, mullatas but they are white people nobody is mullato forever nor black forever nor white forever families can change.

puerto ricans also say how they have more african culture than african americans do they? no every aspect of culture is differnt culture can be defined in many ways, languages too- food, music, how you speak, art family, community. i know how many whites say blacks don't speak the correct english well some whites speak fifferent forms of english as well there are differnt ways whites talk english

from southern white english to new englands form of english do you think people from great britain pronouce word the same as people from my ancestors country england?

this makes me wonder why do my people and other non black ethnical and racial groups say blacks speak ebonics.

and yes just cause you have a majority color people you split them up based on color whats that that causes friction.

i know african american blacks that don't have black skin medium brown etc
like i said b4 USA african american pop. and other black pop. have better oppurtunity and are better off to live than a country that is run by whites in latin america.

try russia lets see how long you'll survive there there are already a percecution of jews and africans there
I Don\'t Know About That
written by Guest, February 01, 2005
I think it's a moot to compare the condition of black Americans vs. Afro-Brazilians vs. black South Africans. Blacks are at the bottom of the social scale regardless of where they live. It is true that in the US you stand a slightly better chance of "making it" but that is only because you have some professions like entertainer or professional athlete that pays big bucks and some blacks excel in these professions.

However, black people in Latin America, especially Brazil and Cuba, seem to be happier and more at peace with themselves than black people in America. Black Americans may have a few more economic advantages but Afro-Latinoes seem to have the close family, community and cultural ties that are severely lacking in American society.
A Black American\'s Reply
written by Guest, February 01, 2005
I find the comments to this article interesting. Many people may not look at a person of African descent's culture
highly (I am not saying all but those that do), but remember Elvis Presley who is idealized by millions of white
and other americans admitted that he borrowed a lot of his music and dance from Black Americans. As for the
language of ebonics. Ebonics or the dialect of black english that many black americans speak is fine. The problem
comes in where in America the vast majority of your job interviewers are white. If a black person comes in
speaking ebonics to an interviewer who knows what is considered standard american english what happens?
Anyway languages change overtime. If an englishman was able to speak to an englishman who lived 500 years
ago, do you think they could understand each other clearly? I think not. There are similarities in the condition
of people that have descendanta from africa whether in America, Brazil or South Africa as to there position in
their respective socities (somewhere below). The differences? South Africa has a clear black and colored
majority which enabled the election of two black presidents. In america blacks are a minority and it has been
that Bill Clinton is as near black a president you may see in america (I wonder if it is because he knows how to
play the saxophone?), the american president Warren Harding is suspected by whites to have a black ancestor
and had much trouble behind it. Brazil I heard had a mullatto president, is it true? The point is that you can
have as many politicians or mayors talk about change as you want, what is important is being able to translate it into economic power to help people. I know in America the two go together. Politics and Economics. In
America many of the major cities are largely black or latino and the mayors of many of your major cities have been
black americans like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles etc. The problem these mayors have had is translating
political power into economic gains for the people. They can ask the President of the United States and Congress
for millions of dollars and let's say they get it. Will throwing money at the problem by itself solve the problem?
I think not! If I open up an electronics factory among uneducated people and tell them I have jobs for engineers
and technicians how many people could fill these jobs? You have to organize, it takes time, you have to properly
educate and train people. The same would be true in South Africa, and Brazil.
About sports? I will admit there are single Black American sports figures in baseball, basketball etc that make the
money of several Brazilian Pele's. Yet keep in mind these black sports figures make millions but the whites
that own these teams can command billions of USD. Afro Latino families being happier? Perhaps, but that
reflects the differences in family values between American and Latin American societies, its not just a race issue.
Free trade
written by Guest, February 04, 2005
Look folks. Stop all the race talk, sports and entertainment talk. Go to higher ground. Brazil and Africa should form a free trade agreement to hold on their mineral deposits, forrest, and agriculture products. African-Americans in the USA could assist with the international law provisions. Stop talking all this other non-sense and let's get serious!
it does exist
written by Guest, February 04, 2005
blacks need to unite in brasil. the gov. tries to show off brasil as a "mostly white 1st world country" so they make up names so that blacks will call themselves anything other than black.
if people would call them selves either black or white as it is iin the US, then they would actually be able to do something about getting civil rights laws passed.
blacks need to be proud of their race and culture as are the US blacks. and when blacks are able to get to the elite in brasil it's only cuz they are "white on the inside". blacks in the elite need to stop dumpin their black mates and gettin blond haired blue eyed ones.
sports and music and any entertainers that are black dont count as blacks thhat "made it".
cuz the only reason they got out of poverty was cuz the whites liked to be entertained so they let them influence brazils culture.
any black culture in brazil such as: candomble, samba, etc. is allowed in brasil cuz the whites like it.
ya'll need to stop comparing where racism is worse. its present in all countries and somfin needs to be done about it.
...
written by Guest, February 04, 2005
brazil is not a 1st world country.
it willonly be a 1st world country when everyone is out of the favelas and living in real houses and when all kids are getting an education. brazil tries so hard to be like the US that instead of fixing its internal promblems first, they try to do fancy things to compete with the US.
Brasil needs to fix its poverty and racism before they try to do anything fancy just so they can say that they're competing w/ the US.

whites are takin ova black culture in brasil. everything that's black has been turned into ways to make $$$ for the brasilian whites. carnaval, candomble, samba,etc. has been turned into industries for the whites to make money.
Same in the USA
written by Guest, February 05, 2005
American whites have ALWAYS pimped blacks in America too - stealing the only thing we really have - our music.

Wish we could look to Africa for help. But Africa has been so ravished by the European powers that be that it will take centuries to pull up out of the mess. Whites own anything and everything of value in Africa.

Until the motherland is free of oppression, genocide and continued theft by other countries she will never be in a position to help her children scattered all over the earth.
Black American\'s Re2
written by Guest, February 05, 2005
I find the comments about the situation of blacks interesting once again. The comments on ignoring the race
problem. Let us take an analogy. You have dirt on the floor, you see a rug and then you take the broom and
sweep it under the rug. Does that clean the floor simply because its hidden? No! We have a saying in America.
"You can run but you can't hide". Racism is a problem. It has to be dealt with. About African American
assistance with international law provisions in a free trade agreement between Brazil and Africa. Interesting!
The fact is you can't apply simple solutions to complex problems. African Americans are US citizens. The
US State Department would stop it because its an international issue. African Americans would need the
lobbying power in Washington like the Jewish lobby towards Israel. At this point in time we do not have that!
It's interesting in that Bush is talking about a free trade zone from the Yukon in Canada to Tierra del Fuego at
the tip of South America. The problem? The Latin American countries like Brazil fear it would be a relationship
between unequals and the US would clearly dominate. The fear has some merit in that the US treats Latin
America and even Africa in its policy, like its own backyard never mind the front. There is NAFTA between
the USA and Mexico. Problem? Many people in the USA see the Mexicans as hewers(carvers ) of wood and
drawers of water as compared to Americans. After all half of Mexico's territory was taken by war with the USA.
This leads to the first step in the problem, dealing with peoples attitude. Black Americans have their problems.
For example some east coast blacks dislike west coast blacks (I'm not saying all but some), and the other way
around. Perhaps this is why the famous rap artists Tupac Shakur (west coast) and Biggie Smalls (east coast)
were killed because of this rivalry. What black americans east coast and west coast can agree on is the problem
of race with the larger society. About blacks of the western hemisphere (USA, BRAZIL etc) attitude toward
Africa. It's interesting in that while I was in Salvador in Bahia Brazil, a black Brazilian musical group called
Oludun was singing about freeing Nelson Mandela while he was still in prison. On the opposite side of the coin?
You know American blacks started a colony in Liberia in the 19th century and put in place the same master,
slave relationship between them and the Africans there like they were under in the south. Black Brazilians
had returned to Africa and from what I know thought of themselves a cut above the native Africans. I believe
they settled in Freetown,Sierra Leone. Has this attitude changed over time? Keep in mind the Europeans
(with the USA with a ring side seat) had no problem carving Africa up like a turkey bird during the Berlin
Conference.





breeding out blackness
written by Guest, February 15, 2005
the racial myth which Brasil toots to the world is based upon breeding out the blacks to create a second tier of a mulatto society where light-skinned is the preferred choice over the dark. Come now, what better evidence do we have than when we see that the face of Brasil is ethnically white both internally and internationally. I am an African-American who have been to Brasil four times and visited the Copacobana Hotel where the absence of those of African-descent was all too much of a reminder that Brasil was a myth--a nickel-and-dime two bit lie!

Todd
PGH, PA.
...
written by Guest, February 15, 2005
Anyome that thinks Brazil is not a highly racial/racist country is are living in the land of Oz!!
The color coding system certainly exists - and the blacker one is the less the "well off" whites respect one.They tend to think that a person can only be well educated if one is white(largely true in Brazil!!).
I am of Asian (South Indian) origin and live in a a suburb of Rio.
My block of apartments is ONLY inhabited by whites (as are those surrounding it).
The only time I see black faces from my window are the black "empregadas" who travel into work for a pittance and live in the favellas,and when I walk in the streets.
At last count there were approx 40,000 people living in slavery in Brazil, (mostly in the NE) (UN stats).
Where are the black faces on TV,adverts,or theatre - virtually non existant.
I think Guy Burtons article is spot on !
A Canadian guy
written by Guest, February 25, 2005
Reading these posts, I am surpised to find that there is a ¨so called¨ white race in brazil. I am from Canada Where our perception of Brazilian is gerally one of a Brown skined people who wear banannas on their head.So imgine my surpise when I discovered that your country has an internal race problem. I for one think that steps should be takin on both sides of the racial divide, regardless of skin complexion;because the rest of the will and always view you as hispanic. Take the United States for example, a Brazilian person there of light or dark skin is classified and seen as a hispanic, and the same holds true in the rest for the rest of the world. So onless more an effort is takin by all peoples in Brazil to unify and become one,your country as a whole will never stand a fighting chance at equaling it self with the U.S or the rest of the western world for that matter. I am also surprised at the high level of racial denile in you country, I happen to be of Russian, Austailian and Ghanian heriatge, my skin colour is a golden coulour, more so then any thing , but I do not go around telling everyone that I am gold. I understand that slavery was rampent in old Brazil,and I imagine that to be the reason why so many blacks in your country are ashamed of their race, directly or indirectly. I beleave it neccesary that your government make an effort at educateing these people about the many contibutions blacks have made to the world, not including Rock, Blues, Jazz,brazilian martial arts, and diffrent inventions. But the history of Africa as whole, from Nimrode and Babylon to Jusus christ and his black ancestry.Also, if all black men are decended from Ham ,then they can also claim Egypt as a black accomplishment. Somebody should also teach them about the slave trade and its history of greedy African princes with no morals. I am decended for such people,and so I understand that it is not their fault. Ontill all Brazilians can come together as one, your countries chances at economic progression will always be limited; because unlike the U.S where blacks only make up twelve percent of the population,in Brazil they make 38% or more. ¨YOUR COUNTRY IS WORKING WITH A STRONG RIGHT ARM TIED BEHIND ITS BACK¨.
To the south Asian before the Candian gu
written by Guest, February 26, 2005
Go back to packy town you f**king brown animal, Brazil isn't looking to half deal with you south asian s**t n****rs(no offence to black people). We know that north Indians were slaves to the Arabs, who are you fooling you f**king south asian s**t n****r, and if from south inda then your just a subjecated Dravidian(although more intelligent then their northern neighbor). We get enough of you Indian n****rs here in Brittian, we don't need your s**t covered asses presenting yourself as people of importance in other counties,so shut your f**king mouth. The Candian Brings up really good points through out his post.If I didn,t know better I would say he was some kind of a man of vision. Somebody should really take this guy seriously, it sounds like he knows what his saying. Brazilian aren't white, there Brown (mind you, a nicer shade of brown than south asians) ,just like the Candian guy said.
A Canadian guy
written by Guest, February 26, 2005
Rusians are slavs,and Brazilians are idiots. the identity crisis in you country is just overwhelming, you are all so quick to deny your african roots. "I'm not black,I only have black blood, so there" is the childish impression you give to outsiders viewing your country. I was reading an earlier comment made by a Brazilian retard, that went something like" in Russa they are persecuteing Jews and Africans, see how long you will last there". I understand that Russa has a long history of anti-semitism, but what I can't understand is how this" Brazilian land mamal" could have sneeked Africans into the equasion. Not many Africans live in Russia, you f**king retard, so you should stop bending over backward to place them in that countries afairs. Second of all,If Russia does have trouble with foreigners and minorites, what in the world makes you think that they wouldn't have any problem with a hispanic man from south America(Brazil).You Brazilian really need to wise up,and stop feeding yourselves the self deluded non sense that your so acustumed to. My grandfather along with a couple of my freinds here in Canada happen to Russian( or of Russian heritage )& from talking to them, you get the impression that they are alot less prejudice and racially inclined than you "wannabe white Brazilians"...... " A POST FROM A TWENTY YEAR OLD CANADIAN OF MIXED BLOOD".p.s thanks for the complement fron the British Man, but I would sugget that you take at least one mintue to proof read your posts; you are appreciated never the less.
A Canadian guy
written by Guest, February 26, 2005
Russians are slavs,and Brazilians are idiots. the identity crisis in you country is just overwhelming, you are all so quick to deny your african roots. "I'm not black,I only have black blood, so there" is the childish impression you give to outsiders viewing your country. I was reading an earlier comment made by a Brazilian retard, that went something like" in Russa they are persecuteing Jews and Africans, see how long you will last there". I understand that Russa has a long history of anti-semitism, but what I can't understand is how this" Brazilian land mamal" could have sneeked Africans into the equasion. Not many Africans live in Russia, you f**king retard, so you should stop bending over backward to place them in the center of that countries affairs. Second of all,If Russia does have trouble with foreigners and minorites, what in the world makes you think that they wouldn't have any problem with a hispanic man from south America(Brazil).You Brazilians really need to wise up,and stop feeding yourselves the self deluded non sense that your so acustumed to. My grandfather along with a couple of my freinds here in Canada, happen to Russian( or of Russian heritage )& from talking to them, you get the solid impression that they are alot less racially inclined and prejudice than you "wannabe white Brazilians"...... " A POST FROM A TWENTY YEAR OLD CANADIAN OF MIXED BLOOD".p.s thanks for the complement fron the British Man, but I would sugget that you take at least one mintue to proof read your posts; you are appreciated never the less.
A Canadian guy
written by Guest, February 26, 2005
Russians are slavs,and Brazilians are idiots. the identity crisis in you country is just overwhelming, you are all so quick to deny your african roots. "I'm not black,I only have black blood, so there" is the childish impression you give to outsiders viewing your country. I was reading an earlier comment made by a Brazilian retard, that went something like" in Russia they are persecuteing Jews and Africans, see how long you will last there". I understand that Russia has a long history of anti-semitism, but what I can't understand is how this" Brazilian land mamal" could have sneeked Africans into the equasion. Not many Africans live in Russia, you f**king retard, so you should stop bending over backward to place them in the center of that countries affairs. Second of all,If Russia does have trouble with foreigners and minorites, what in the world makes you think that they wouldn't have any problem with a hispanic man from south America(Brazil).You Brazilians really need to wise up,and stop feeding yourselves the self deluded non sense that Brazilians have grown so acustumed. My grandfather along with a couple of my freinds here in Canada, happen to Russian( or of Russian heritage )& from talking to them, you get the solid impression that they are alot less racially inclined and prejudice than you "wannabe white Brazilians"...... " A POST FROM A TWENTY YEAR OLD CANADIAN OF MIXED BLOOD".p.s thanks for the complement fron the British Man, but I would sugget that you take at least one mintue to proof read your posts; you are appreciated never the less.P.s The Brazilian who's comment am referenceing was not directed at me specifially.
To the britsh son of a bitch swearing to
written by justchecking, March 06, 2005
Hey Brit a*****e,
Try to get your head from your paper wiped a*****e. Though I am not south indian, I am north Indian and I found your remarks utterly ignorant. What else do we expect from you british sons of bitches. I have been to Europe 4 times, did not go to England at all. Not even once. Why ! .Because I know you filthy sons of bitches Brits suck big time. If it was not for that stupid Gandhi we would have thrown you a*****es out of India at least 100 years back.

My message to all indians who have settled in UK, breed, breed and bring more indians to UK till you turn that land of red monkys completely brown. f**k these british retards and make them pay for the stupidity of their filithy greedy ancestors who put their filthy asses in India in 18 and 19th centuries.

f**k all Brits and their mothers till eternity. And long live brazil.
BLACK AMERICAN PHOTOGRAPHER
written by Guest, March 27, 2005
HELLO; I'm a photographer who would like to come to your beautiful country to photograph the beauty of the "black women" who live there.Would you please give my e-mail address to some who might be interested. I pay well. kauai_3@msn.com. Ken the world travler
South Africa?
written by Guest, August 01, 2005
Hey guys, I wanted to know your opinion on my ethnicity. My father's "white", placed in parenthesis because Hitler's Arian race didn't exist then and sure as hell doesn't exist now. In other words we're all got a mix of sorts.
Anyway my mom's ancestory is confusing. She's white and san mixed. The san people are now extinct murdered by white and black South Africans alike. They're called the yellow-people and not considered black but still african.
In your eyes what does that make me? I have my dad's coloring and my mum's exotic features?


...
written by Guest, April 07, 2006
The San still survive in the Kalahari - so don't sit shiva for them yet!

Your race is human - same as mine. My dad's family is from the north Russian shore of the Black sea, my mom's from the Turkish side. Am I European or Asian?
...
written by Guest, April 07, 2006
Anybody that thinks that racism in the USA is the world's worst is so ill informed that he should not even be encouraged to dissphincter his head.

Better left up there . . .
...
written by Guest, April 10, 2006
"But Africa has been so ravished by the European powers that be that it will take centuries to pull up out of the mess."

Bull, Africa was ravished because it was to primitive to resist and too greedy not to participate.

It takes more than a few generations out of Africa to de-chimpify people, so be patient my little pret monkey friends - as surely as your tail is gone your descendants will evolve into humans, or die out.
...
written by Guest, April 10, 2006
Look at Africa - the prets are simply closer to the chimpanzees than the people that had the sense to get out of that hell-hole. Get used to it - The Africans can dance, fornicate and eat each other while the Chinese and Europeans eat their lunch, an outcome deserved by both sides. Not because the Chinese and Europeans shed their negritude, after all that is about no more than vitamin D - but because they value education and civilization enough to actually improve the human race. This crap about white racism holding down the darky is indefensible in light of the truth - the the same horrors of slavery endured under whites they endured under blacks, and the worse thing that happened to 20th century Africa was decolonialzation. Move 'em to Brazil, Jamaica or South Central Los Angeles, they are they same people they ever were. This country is starting to give me the creeps every time I venture north of Paraná!

British, former resident of Curitiba, PR
written by Guest, April 25, 2006
Woah! Genuinely shocked by some of the things I've read on here. Don't normally respond to these threads but, good lord, I don't even know where to start on this one.

Interesting how these threads on racism nearly always turn into slanging matches about who's the more racist, revealing the poster's insecurities about their own real feelings. Kind of the same process that homophobes follow, masking their own insecurities about their sexuality with vehement bigotry.

To be honest, this argument's gone a little beyond the point, but I just wanted to clear a few things up, for reasons of factual accuracy. Firstly, Brazil does have its own black TV channel, it's called TV da Gente and it's been broadcasting since last year (although why this is relevant is beyond me, considering all BET managed to do was advance negative stereotypes before selling out for big bucks). Secondly, Brazil DOES have anti-racism laws, also a recent addition but, never the less, a step forward, perhaps best illustrated by the case of Ivanilde dos Santos who successfully sued the police for the death of her son (a soldier, wrongly accused of being a drug dealer and shot dead in Rio in 199smilies/cool.gif Thirdly, the word "preto" refers to the colour black, not someone's ethnicity, and is only used in that way as a derogatory term by white people, so please don't use it to try to sound well informed. Black people use the term "negro" as in the commonly seen T-Shirt design in Brazil "100% Negro".

Finally, my twopennies worth on the Brazilian "identity crisis" as it was described the "Candian guy". Having some black ancestry and brown skin doesn't make you black. Americans, British and other Westerners merely think this way for cultural reasons, initially because anyone with slightly darker skin was ostracised by the white community due to the stigma of interracial families, thus causing a feeling of solidarity and a rejection of European culture amongst mulattos and black people. Nowadays, kids simply act this way because it's cooler to be black than white. In actual fact, Brazilians are far more enlightened as they embrace all aspects of their ethnic ancestry rather than those that suit them. That's why so few Brazilians refer to themselves as being outright black. There's no conspiracy, it's just that Brazilian people don't see the world in the blinkered two tone way that the supposedly civilized west does. However, that's not to say that discrimination doesn't exist, it's just it's more along the lines of what someone said earlier on in this thread; an economic prejudice rather than a racial one.

Anyway, rant over,
Peace.

Brazlian/Black/Indian form India
written by Brazlian/Black/Indian form India, February 01, 2007
I totally agree with the poster above. Brazil is so mixed and their definition of black and white are highly complex...I'm a perfect example of a typical( in the most known form) Brasilian girl and I live in the US where it's a headache to even explain my ethnicity but my point is this-everybody will die and when you do who cares what color you were when your soul with be transparent?
manufacturing agreement
written by some thoughts, February 06, 2007
I would like to destroy the myth of african's selling each other into slavery. To whose benefit is this? Though there existed at the time a system in africa of taking slaves or more precisiely captured peoples from other areas during times of conflict, what is not generally acknowledged is that these people more often could rise socially within the new 'tribe'. This is very different to what we now know as modern 'slavery' as practiced by the europeans.

Now how could a practice as described previously somehow become one where africans sold each other on such a large scale? Probably through fear and inducement. The first mistake was to trade the captured to the europeans in a belief that they would be treated as one of the family and not in captivity. However this act opened a flood gate as europeans saw the profits to be made. Now the message was if you do not supply more, then you and your people will be the cargo. Bingo divide and rule works every time! No doubt the trade in firearms and advantage giving technlogy was very high to the 'co-operative' tribes.

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