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Brazil's Ethanol Lesson Is How to Manage Our Oil Addiction PDF Print E-mail
Written by David G. Victor   
Tuesday, 18 April 2006 21:29

A Brazilian gas station also selling ethanolThe Brazilian government is declaring victory in its decades-long struggle to become self-sufficient in the supply of oil. The milestone is cause for celebration in a country that has long paid a high price for imported energy.

It will also reverberate here in the United States where policy-makers, too, are trying to wean the nation from costly imports, jittery markets and the foreign spigot.

But we must learn the right lessons. Brazil's success came not from treating oil as an addiction but by producing even more of the stuff and by becoming even more dependent on world markets.

Here in the United States, most attention to Brazil's fuel supply has focused on the country's aggressive program to replace oil with ethanol that is made by fermenting homegrown sugar. American newspapers are filled with stories about Brazil's famous "flex fuel" vehicles that make it easy to switch between ethanol and conventional gasoline.

Guided partly by Brazil's apparent success, American policy-makers are crafting new mandates for ethanol, and flex fuel vehicles are now taking shape. We have the impression that ethanol is king.

In reality, ethanol is a minor player in Brazilian energy supply. It accounts for less than one-tenth of all the country's energy liquids.

The real source of Brazil's self-sufficiency is the country's extraordinary success in producing more oil. After the 1970s oil shocks, when Brazil's fuel import bill soared, the government pushed Petrobras, the state-controlled oil company, to look asunder for new energy sources.

Petrobras delivered, especially at home, where the firm pioneered the technologies that make it possible to extract oil locked in sediments under the seabed in extremely deep water.

In the middle 1970s Brazil struggled to produce just 180,000 barrels of oil per day while importing four times that amount. Today it produces about 2 million and is self-sufficient. Indeed, the current milestone of self-sufficiency arrives with the inauguration of Brazil's newest deep water platform, the P50.

When P50 reaches its full output later this year, that one platform will deliver more liquid to Brazil than the country's entire ethanol program.

Brazil's self-sufficiency offers three lessons for U.S. energy policy:

* First is that ethanol, with current technology, will do little to sever our dependence on imported energy. Today's approach involves growing a crop - sugar in Brazil, corn in the United States - and then fermenting the fruits to yield fuel.

Sugar plants in Brazil's climate are a lot more efficient at converting sunlight to biomass than is corn in the Midwest, but U.S. policy nonetheless favors corn (and imposes tariffs on imported sugar) because the program is really a scheme to deliver heartland votes rather than a commercially viable fuel.

Yet, even with Brazil's favorable climate and sugar's inviting biology, ethanol is already reaching the limit. That's because the land and other resources devoted to ethanol can be put to other uses such as growing food and cash crops.

Indeed, today the Brazilian government is actually reducing the share of ethanol that must be blended into gasoline because sugar growers prefer to make even more money by selling their product as sugar on the world market rather than fermenting it into alcohol.

New technologies - notably "cellulosic biomass" - could breathe fresh life into ethanol and replace still more oil. Cellulosic biomass is intriguing because it cuts costs by allowing the entire plant - the cellulose in the stalks, as well as the prized grain or sugar - to be fermented into fuel.

Advocates for this technology, including President Bush in his State of the Union address, have wrongly confused the sexy promise of this newfangled approach to making ethanol with the practical realities of fuel markets.

Schemes to produce cellulosic biomass, today, work only under special circumstances and nobody has delivered the fuel at the industrial scale that would be required for the technology to become commercially viable.

* Second, we should learn that, for now, the greatest force to loosen the world's oil markets lies with oil itself. We can use oil more efficiently, as would occur with a gasoline tax or wise fuel economy standards. But we can also find ways to produce more of the stuff - as Brazil did with Petrobras.

The problem for U.S. policy-makers is that the richest veins for new production lie mainly outside the United States and beyond our direct control.

Indeed, the Brazilian government made Petrobras more efficient by putting the firm partly beyond its control as well. When the government sold part of the company on international stock exchanges, it accepted Western accounting procedures and other strictures that have given Petrobras the autonomy and accountability to its shareholders that, in turn, helped make it an efficient company.

We have a stake in seeing other countries do the same - from Algeria to Mexico to Iran and even Russia. But we must remember that Brazil did this on its own, in response to internal pressures for reform, with little leverage from foreign governments.

* Third, we should learn from Brazil not to confuse the goal of greater self-sufficiency with the illusion of independence. Even as Brazil has become self-sufficient it has also, ironically, become more dependent on world markets.

That's because the Brazilian government has wisely relaxed price controls so that the prices of fuels within the country are set to the world market. Thus Brazilians see real world prices when they fill up at the pump, and the decisions about which cars to buy and how much to drive reflect real costs and benefits of the fuel they consume.

That is why, even as the country becomes self-sufficient, Brazilians are working ever harder to be more frugal with oil - because the price at the pump is high and rising.

Dependence on oil is a liability that must be managed. But it is not an addiction. Efficiency, sober policies toward modest alternatives such as ethanol, and more production - all tools of the manager, not the addict - are required. Brazil helps show the way, but only if we learn the right lessons.

This article appeared originally in the Houston Chronicle - www.chron.com.
 
Victor is director of the Program on Energy and Sustainable Development at Stanford University and adjunct senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, where he directs research on energy policy. His email for contact: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .



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Comments (123)Add Comment
Ethanol, corn fuel !
written by Guest, April 18, 2006
From what I know, 0 % of corn harvested in the world is hand harvested.
On the other hand, for sugar cane in Brazil, 40 % or more is manually harvested by sugar cane cutters, paid poorly and often under slavery statute.
In Sao Paulo, many farmers are transferring cattles to the North because they are loosing money. the same is happening for Soya farmers.
They have big expansion plan for their ethanol. Sao Paulo Land farms are rented to large sugar agribusinesses for a minimum of 4 years and they are getting good rents, instead of loosing money with Soya and catlles.
This means that the numbers of slaves can only go up and not down.
To get a better image from the world, Brazil will say how this ethanol industry is creating new jobs by the hundreds of thousands and they will call them the "green workers* when in reality they will be the new "green slaves".

Nothing to be proud of, but Brazil will copntinue to hide the sad reality.
Now that soya is no longer the fashion crop, they accuse (with the greens NGO'S) the Cargill, Bunge, ADM of being responsible for the slavery.
Once again, one has to realize that no such company have slaves. All the slaves are hired and (not really) paid by the large brazilian farmers and no one else.
As usual and once more, Brazil must find a foreigner to name as guilty of their own decision.
They never do nothing wrong. when things are bright it is because they are smart, and when things are bad it is because of external factors, including their poverty, while at the same time Brazil is recognized to have the world worst wealth inequality.
This means that their minority elite top which belongs their politicians, are pocketing all the wealth of the country but then they accuse the rich nations for their 80 % of population being poor.
Brazil was always badly managed since the last 100 years. It is not without reason they are nicknamed a boom and bust economy. this time they even failed to have a real boom during Lula mandate. They are at the queue of the economic growth of all developing countries.Numbers are published.
Their only boom was exports, but not because they were smart but only because there was external demand in the world recovery.
during the last 3 years their exports increased by about 60 to 80 % but their overall annual economic growth was an anemic (for developing countries)
3 % or so !
Nothing to be proud of either.
they have no long term plans longer than 3 years.
3 years ago their golden oil was Soya, 2 years ago it was Soya, now it is Ethanol.
IN these 3 years they have not invested in infrastructure in roads and railways, and now they wake up with projects. Projects that no one knows if and when they will be realized.
Lula is so smart that he freed 350 millions Reais to fill all the potholes in Brazil within 6 months.
On the other hand, they double a 600 kms highways near Bahia at a cost of Reais 12 billions that is supposed to take years. Quite a contradiction in the costs. All specialistzs said that the money freed to fill the potholes will not even cover the gravel and the sand costs, and will last only until the next heavy rains.
Is this a serious country, where political corruption is all the time the major pass time of their politicians ?

Really I dont think so.

Brazil is alsmostz suffcient in oil, they produce a lot of ethanol, but curiously their fuel pump prices is higher than the USA or most S.A. countries.
Knowing that agriculture is heavily energy dependants for tractors, combines, fertilizers and transportation they dont realize that with their progblems in roads paved and unpaved, thea are no longer competitive in agriculture. Their farmers are struggling, cannot repay their debts, and even less their already low subsidized rates, that the government is providing more subsidizes. On the other hand they are against the agriculture subsidizes of the rich nations, while they themselves subsidizes with low rates from the BNDES ALL their export industries without willing to open more their doors on industrial goods and financial services.
But at the same time they are forcing their Mercosur Partner, Argentina, for a FTA on auto parts. Strange isnt it !
Finally Brazil wants a always complain for the low price of their agricultral products but on the other hand they are not willing to pay the international market prices of Bolivian natural gas. they are actually paying 50 % below world market prices.
Has Brazil a one way view on trade ?
It is confirmed daily !
they are already highly profitable in trade with all the rich nations but they want more, ever more. The EU can produce most of its needed agriculture, well before Brazil.
But we have to reduce cotton and sugar beets production to please Brazil. We have no desire to eat GM Soy but we are forced to eat GM soy.
Isnt that funny to be forced to buy something we dont want to eat !
Really strange ! Really strange !
yes but
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
In Brazil we have shown the world the gift of ethanol. Use it and don't bitch!
...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
A inveja mata. Brazil is self suficient in energy and no one in the world can face Brazilian productivity in agricultural commodities. Orange juice, meat, soya, poultry,and we still have a big Amazon to expand while others are facing tribal wars in the middle east, and they are losing it as they did lost in Vietnan a generation ago
oops
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
"no one in the world can face Brazilian productivity"

That poster has never heard of
China
...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
Oh christ, here we go again..another misinformed monkey spouting off about how great his nation is. Christ, don’t you question why, with that entire surplus in farm products, fruits and fresh water, still over half your population goes to bed hungry?

I agree that Brazilians were blessed with a wonderful location, fertile lands, lovely beaches and plenty of natural resources, however, it should have gone to the Brits who might actually done something more interesting and def. more productive with it.

You folks are squandering it away, but that’s what we’ve come to expect with Brazilians: Boast all you like about natural resources; they’re there, not because of Brazilian ingenuity though. And I’d bet the farm that they won’t be there by the end of this century due to (the only reliable and renewable natural resource in Brazil) Brazilian stupidity.
Well said...last forum member !
written by Guest, April 19, 2006


these guys believe that exporting $ 35/40 billions in agriculture will make them rich, when in fact it is the agriculture that made them poor, except the 1 % of large landowners having 50 % of all the land....of course !

Amd to the gift from Brazil !
Hopefully you understand that a gift elsewhere in the world means......free !
Is your ethanol....free, for us and for you ?
Noooooo !
Here is even an article that appeared in Reuters on February 6/2006 :
“Even in Brazil’s No. 1 ethanol state Sao Paulo, owners of flex fuel cars are finally doing what was unimaginable just a few months ago, filling their tanks with gasoline instead of ethanol.” Industry sources have advised that if ethanol prices are higher than 70% of gasoline prices, drivers are better off using gasoline due to improved fuel economy.
Ethanol is just the latest new fashion.
Long ago it was rubber. Almost disappeared.
Then it was lumber. Still some but mostly smuggled illegaly.
Then coffee. 4 years ago your coffee farmers starved hard.
Then it was your golden oil soya. In just 2 years the price in Reais dropped by 50 %. your farmers are struggling and loosing money.
At the same time it was cattle and chicken. Now your cattle farmers are receiving the 1996 price, without taking inflation. They starve.
there was also Teak plantations. All investors lost most of their money.
and oohhh yes there also was the Ostrich theme. Failure.
There was sugar. your sugar farmers starved for decades.
Later there was your ethanol. Pfuittt almost disappeared.

And now ethanol is the new trick for the wealth of Brazil.
Hopefully they realize that the more ethanol they produce, the more slaves they will have, because your industry harvest 40 % of all Brazilian sugar cane manually !
Investing in ethanol is your next failure and the one product that will enslave hundreds of thousands of sugar cane cutters that you will call the "green workers" to hide their true function "the green slaves"
Same for your orange juice. How much are paid the hundreds of thousands of workers. Not much.....as usual !

do you realize how many tons of orange, or of soya, or of cattle Brazil must produce to import just 1 Mercedes ?
_smilies/wink.gif))


...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
http://liberdadenet.blogspot.com

I found this topic very interesting, and I have published a reply in my blog. Americans reading this must get more info and get to know that the author is plain wrong in many of the things he says. Most of the blog is in portuguese. The text follows below:

Some americans simply don't get it. Specially the ones inside universities, who live in ivory towers and are unable to see anything happening in the real world. I have read a post in Brazzil.com that simply made me sick. The author is a so-called Stanford doctor, who apparently is unable to inform his readers of the whole truth. In fact, when one reads the pic above, one can imagine that prices in Brazil are international as he states. Some misinformed american reader can stumble upen this pic and agree to him. The problem is, the author apparently doesn't know (or doesn't want his readers to know) that this price is in brazilian currency and unit measures. Let's tell the whole truth. Dollar is costing R$ 2,12 for the exchange rate of today. That means, the true price the author states is almost US$ 1.19. Wow, not bad. The problem is, this price is for the litter of gas. And the price americans pay is for gallons. Well, one gallon is 3.78 litters, and that makes our gallon of gas cost up to US$ 4.49!!! Does that look an international price to you? And that's not 100% pure gas as you have in the United States, that's a mix made by the only oil company permitted to operate in the market, Petrobrás, imposed to drivers in order to make its profit margins bigger. Currently, our gas has about 25% of alcohol in it (which of course causes the engines to malfunction often, as any brazilian driver knows of). Here are some links (in portuguese) with info about the brazilian gas:

http://www.demec.ufmg.br/disciplinas/ema003/liquidos/gasolina/gasolina.htm
http://www.br.com.br/portalbr/calandra.nsf#http://www.br.com.br/portalbr/calandra.nsf/0/41D8569A3E4F8C0403256DAD004CC8DA?OpenDocument

I would like to propose to you, author to come living in Brazil where you have to buy oil from a single company instead of the many you can choose freely in your country. If you are not happy with your country, why don't you simply move to here and stop complaining about something you don't know? I'm sure many americans would certainly thank you. It's certainly easier for you to come here than for me to go to your place so, if you wish to exchange citizenship with me, feel free to contact me ok?
Nice job
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
Nice job Brazil.

Congratulations to the people involved in this project.

Oh boy...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
I see gas stations as diverse as Petrobras (BR), Shell, Atlantic, Ipiranga, BP, Texaco, Agip etc. all around Brasil. And they offer gas, diesel, ethanol, and methane...Many choices from many sources. By the way, biodiesel from castor oil soon to be available. What you wanna do next, invade us for our precious tropical land? Since we are so inept. Good on you! Invade, maim & kill..."Superior anglo" attitude.
...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
That should read "Superior anglo" reality.
Mistake
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
You said

Wow, not bad. The problem is, this price is for the litter of gas. And the price americans pay is for gallons. Well, one gallon is 3.78 litters, and that makes our gallon of gas cost up to US$ 4.49


You have to remember that the average american drives 25 miles one way to work;

50 miles a day= 85km per day

In Brazail the gas cost more but the person does not use the same amount of gas weekly


I drive a honda civic in Brasil to work

I drive only 7 miles round trip everyday

My full tank is good for 30 days

even if a pay $ 4,49 p/gallon times 10 gallons (my tank) i will pay around 50 dollars a mount


In the other hand in America a person needs around 4 to 5 tanks of gas a mounth to get by without a problem,.

5 tanks is around 50 gallons

50 gallons is around 3dollars a gallon times 50 gallons

150 dollars a mounth in gas.

In Brazil and europe you pay more but use less

In America you pay less but use more

In the End of 30 days in America you pay more for gas that you would pay in europe or Brazil

Re: Oh boy...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
But they are just distributors. The only company allowed to explore and import oil is Petrobras. Refining is also almost a monopoly, only some companies that have concessions from the government are allowed to run refineries. There is competition only among distributors and gas stations owners.
Re:Mistake
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
Wow, if you drive a Honda Civic, I suppose you are a wealthy brazilian, because there aren't some many brazilians able to buy a US$ 25,000 car. Honda Civic is considered a luxury sedan here, after all. Congratulations.

Europe is also not a model to follow. See what's happening in Germany and France. High taxes led to high unemployment and now people are getting revolted and violent.

As to the comparison between what an american spends and what a brazilian spends, that's simply nonsense. Quite simply, brazilians don't have the option to live in a quiet suburb and work in the downtown because that would be simply too expensive (not to mention that in cities like São Paulo, doing this takes hours in transportation). Due to this, many denizens have to take buses or trains which are far below the needs (see how they go almost exploding with so many people inside, in every metropolis, including Curitiba) and are way too expensive considering the costs, because driving a car to go work is not an option to many people.

Your comments reveal you are simply an elitist who doesn't care for other people needs and freedom. Good you can drive to go to work, because most brazilians cannot.
true, but...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
I think it might be true that in Brazil you use your car less; however, it not unheard of when someone has go drive to a different town and goes around looking for passengers to split the gas bill because it can break the bank.
...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
Mistake

That is simply a specious, ney; a stupid argument - "it works out cheaper, because we use it less"? Where the hell did you get your education?

So, you buy a flatron TV for 200% more than its retail in the US, but watch it 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. SO, by your calculations it THEN works out cheaper for you than someone in the US, who bought it for next to nothing yet turns it on only once a week? s**t, you sound as stupid as my Brazilian wife.
Splitting costs
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
"split the gas bill because it can break the bank"

No, that's a cultural thing, brazilians tend to split the costs on everything, not only the gas.

Beware if anyone invites you for a churrasco in their home, they might very well expect you to bring the beer or the meat.

Never sleeps a week in someone's home either, even if the person insists vehemently, they will expect you to pay for everything you consume, the electricity, the food, the shelter...

I said "sleep", if you actually live in someone's home you will have to pay the rent and do some shopping for food and stuff.

If someone offers a ride he will expect you to pay for the gas, even if you are going to the same place and no "extra gas" was needed.

I'm brazilian and lived in Brazil all my life, I know how these things work! smilies/smiley.gif
Longhorn is baaaack!!!!
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
"Si tutti cornutti portati lampione; Mamma mia! Que iluminazzione!!!"
Dear Longhorn, You will never walk alone...
...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
Who is Longhorn?
Amazon - Soy??
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
"and we still have a big Amazon to expand while others are facing tribal wars in the middle east?"

Careful partner - by the year 2050 (and by many estimates earlier) the Amazon will be nothing but sterile, parched earth. A section of forest the size of the state of Mass. was slashed and burned to make way for that precious soy . . . .
...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
Amazon - Soy??

Touche...great point
...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
In Sao PAulo you have tons of hondas going around

I never said my car was a brand new car.

I just a good car and even honda has a plant in Brazil.

I drive the car only to my work and is true that we share the ride.

I do share my car going to work with to more people.

Yuo are just a person not well inform about life in Brazil that loves to use pejorative words to make you case.
...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
I'm brazilian and lived in Brazil all my life, I know how these things work! smilies/smiley.gif



I'm also from Brazil and my family has been around for more then 400 years.

Maybe you just have bad and cheap friends !!!!!!!!!

smilies/smiley.gif

...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006

Anyway
Amazing how people love to talk trash about Brazil.

What about going back to the topic ,where Brazil is doing a wonderfull job.

Go Brazzil






...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
quote:


"No, that's a cultural thing, brazilians tend to split the costs on everything, not only the gas"

yep, you're right about that!! One can divide a hostess twinkie 20 times without "juros", or interest, but try taking out a loan for a car or a house!! Or the line of credit in your bank account at 10% per MONTH!
...
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
Europe is also not a model to follow. See what's happening in Germany and France. High taxes led to high unemployment and now people are getting revolted and violent.


Remember

Europe is not just France and Germany

You have more then 20 countries in that category and in europe people pay less for gas when you take in consideration that a person can go around with one tank ever 30 days

In America you need 4 to 5 tanks ever 30 days


il gringo parlando Italiano - LOL!!
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
In case you don't notice Brasil is a country of Italians. Hilarious to seeing a stupid f**king gringo stealing Italiano. Here is more for you . .
-Eh Arrogh'e merda, Leccami le palle. Noi sappiamo che Il tuo cazzo è minuscolo e tua madre si da per niente . . Agora vai se foder gringo succhiatore!!!
Io no sono gringo!
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
Se te chappo sin sabrague te esbrego la fritola!!!
Ciao p**ana
Re: Europe is also no a model to follow.
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
Yes, I know, there are more countries other than Germany and France, but they are the most important, and the guy who drives a used Honda Civic worth at least US$ 10,000 (I assume your Honda Civic is not 10 years old, ok? If so, well it might cost some US$ 6,000 or US$ 7,000 lol) and thinks he is in paradise certainly took the first two countries as an example (as well as Spain and Portugal perhaps, though I don't know how much they are paying for their gas there). Anyway, what matters is that the model in France and Germany is not a model to follow.

About trashing Brazil, what's the problem when a person like me trashes it? I was born here, I can say whatever I want to anyone I want about it ok? We do have free speech around here, right? And really a great job, achieving self-sufficiency by reducing demand... oh ok.

Pay a visit to my blog and learn some more wonders about Brazil: http://liberdadenet.blogspot.com
Go Brazil!
written by Guest, April 19, 2006
Yeah, it does hurt some Americans when a country south of Rio Grande does something good, especially Brazil.

But, the USA is not all bad. There are many intelligent Americans but unfortunately they do not visit this site and expose their opinions here but only the racists, feeble-minded, and Anti-Brazilians ones. What a pity!


...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
quote:


"The problem is, this price is for the litter of gas. And the price americans pay is for gallons. Well, one gallon is 3.78 litters, and that makes our gallon of gas cost up to US$ 4.49!!! Does that look an international price to you? And that's not 100% pure gas as you have in the United States, that's a mix made by the only oil company permitted to operate in the market, Petrobrás, imposed to drivers in order to make its profit margins bigger. Currently, our gas has about 25% of alcohol in it (which of course causes the engines to malfunction often, as any brazilian driver knows of). Here are some links (in portuguese) with info about the brazilian gas: "


You're spot-on there my man. I know a guy, a brazilian that also has a residence in the states. Several years ago he purchased a Chevy Blazer in the states and paid to have it shipped to brazil, and of course paid the import tax charged. Shortly after it arrived it had problems ALL the time, and it was due to the quality of gasoline that is sold here in brazil. It is ONE of the reasons that when one purchases a NEW car that he only receives a warranty for ONE year, sometimes two, and Toyota offers a three year warranty, and that is by far the best car warranty in brazil.

You certainly don't find warranty's anything close to the ones they have in the states, such as with Kia's, 10 years or 100,000 miles.
...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
yep, I try to make sense of it but can't. Brazil is "self-sufficient" in oil. I live in the 2nd largest oil producing state in brazil, and gas here is 2.55 reais per LITRE. If you work it out to see how much one pays per gallon, it comes to almost 10 reais per gallon, which today is $4.70/gallon.

Someone make some sense of that for me cause I sure as hell can't.
...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
" There are many intelligent Americans but unfortunately they do not visit this site and expose their opinions here but only the racists, feeble-minded, and Anti-Brazilians ones."

People like you are priceless! You must have labelled the anti-war protestors during viet-nam "anti-americans" as well huh?

Does one have to be brazilian to complain about the gross injustices that exist here in brazil? Because that is the attitude that MANY brazilians have. I guess the umpteen million first generation foreigners in the states have no right to complain because they weren't born there??

Most brazilians have very thin skin when it comes to hearing the problems that exist from a gringo, as if the problems don't affect the ones that live here.

...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
But, the USA is not all bad. There are many intelligent Americans but unfortunately they do not visit this site and expose their opinions here but only the racists, feeble-minded, and Anti-Brazilians ones. What a pity!

People like this only think there are two countries in the world (well, three given Iraq is now intheir news) the US and Brazil. This poster doesn´t think for a second there may be other nationalities that frequent this site? How sad for you.
America: Love It or Leave It!
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
Hell.... I will leave the s**thole before the ship sinks...to where pastures are greener and friendlier.

An American Citizen
...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
yep, I try to make sense of it but can't. Brazil is "self-sufficient" in oil. I live in the 2nd largest oil producing state in brazil, and gas here is 2.55 reais per LITRE. If you work it out to see how much one pays per gallon, it comes to almost 10 reais per gallon, which today is $4.70/gallon.

Someone make some sense of that for me cause I sure as hell can't.

Let me try and break this down for you real easy: GREED! It's not that oil can't be produced for much less in Brazil it's that R$ 2.55 is what the market will bear - oh and belive me it can bear much more than that - and it will. Look for R$ 3.00 per liter soon. Oh and Bu$cho's saber rattling is having the intended effect - prices are going up all over the world and his oil buddies are getting rich. It's funny - you act as if having "Petrobras" gives you safety from market fluctutations. Petrobras is one of the biggest oil companies in the world and are playing with the big boys - stealing like it too.

That is the very same reason that Ethanol is quickly becoming a joke. Ethanol saves you a few centavos but in the end it may end up equal because of the fuel efficiency factor you get with a petroleum distillate. It amazes me how costly ethanol is in Brazil despite being produced in such vast quantities. The boys who make ethanol are ca$hing in too. The saddest thing is ethanol could probably be offered for much less. In addition the US could grow sugar beets on a scale similar to that of sugar cane in Brazil, maybe more, but big oil is just f**king us over every day. . .
...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
IIn Europe you need around 1 tank por mounth to get by without a problem

In America you need 4 to 5 tanks


Americans commute longer, farther than ever By Ellen Wulfhorst
1 hour, 40 minutes ago



NEW YORK (Reuters) - Dave Givens drives 370 miles to work and back every day and considers his seven-hour commute the best answer to balancing his work with his personal life.


Studies show Americans spend more time than ever commuting and for a growing number, getting to work takes more than an hour. In the most recent Census Bureau study, 2.8 million people have so-called extreme commutes, topping 90 minutes.

Givens, a 46-year-old electrical engineer, has an extreme commute between home in Mariposa, California, and his job in San Jose. He leaves home before dawn and returns after dark.

His trip landed him first place among almost 3,000 entries in the search for America's longest commute, sponsored by automotive services provider Midas Inc. and announced last week. But as harrowing or tedious as Givens' trip may sound, he says it's the way to keep the home and job he loves.

"I have the balance right now," Givens told Reuters. "I could do similar jobs closer, but not with the work reward and job satisfaction I have. And I could live closer, but I wouldn't have the lifestyle that I desire.

"To me, this is not that long a commute," he added. "It's just something I do to go to work."

SUBURB-TO-SUBURB COMMUTING

Longer commutes frequently involve people who live in one suburb and work in another, said Alan Pisarski, author of "Commuting in America."

Such a pattern tends to begin with companies moving out of a city to a suburb, enticing workers to move to less-expensive outer suburbs, he told Reuters. "People see this as an opportunity to go farther away," he said.

Such a move may provide more affordable housing or better schools. Even high fuel costs -- Givens spends about $185 a week on gasoline -- can pay off in a better quality of life, Pisarski said.

Doreen DeJesus rides a bus from her home in Tobyhanna, Pennsylvania, across New Jersey to her job in Manhattan.

The payoff is a house in the country, she said.

"It's a matter of getting away from the hustle and bustle of the city," said DeJesus, 37. "It's not an easy thing, but most days it's really worth it.

"My boss thinks I'm nuts," she added.

Studies show 7.6 percent of U.S. commuters traveled more than an hour to work in 2004, the most recent data available, up from 6 percent in 1990. The average one-way commute grew by 13 percent to 25.5 minutes between 1990 and 2000.

In 1990, only in New York state did more than 10 percent of workers spend more than an hour to get to work, Pisarski said. Now that situation can be found in New Jersey, Maryland, Illinois and California as well, he said.

CONGESTION WORSENS

Added to long commutes is increased congestion, according to the Texas Transportation Institute's 2005 Urban Mobility Report. Commuters typically spent 47 hours a year in traffic jams, up from 40 hours a decade earlier, the study showed.

"That's the time wasted above and beyond just being able to make the trip," said David Schrank, co-author of the report.

But the trips can be worthwhile, said Kay Phillips who works in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, 164 miles from her home in Granite Falls.

"I really love what I do, so I don't mind," she said.

While Givens spends much of his commute listening to the radio, especially traffic reports, Philips, 52, uses her five-hour commute in her own way -- she prays.

"I say a long prayer starting out every morning for everybody, and it gives you quite a bit of time to do that," she said.

...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
The above post show how brazilians have limited options. Considering an average price of US$ 4.49 per gallon and a price of US$ 2.75 per gallon in California, the brazilian using the same car would likely spend not US$ 185, but US$ 302/week. Of course, we now have to take into consideration that brazilian gas contains alcohol and it's not hard to find some more illegal additions to it in gas stations around here, which make the quality even poorer. As such, a car in Brazil with the same engine is supposed to make about 70% of the mileage of a similar american car. That would make the costs for our brazilian commuter jump to up to about US$ 392/week or some US$ 1,570/month. In brazilian reais, that represents a little bit more than R$ 3.300/monthly. Well, that's a very good wage in most of the country, it's supposed that 10-year experienced IT professionals earn less than that in most of the country but São Paulo, where certainly traveling 370 miles, or almost 600 kilometers is certainly not an option. Actually, it would take more time to travel the same miles in virtually any brazilian road, not to mention the added expenditures with vehicle maintenance, due to the high number of holes in most roads. Of course, if he travels in a paid road he won't have any problems with holes, but he'll have to spend more money in some of the most expensive toll fees in the world, which may add a lot. For instance, the toll fee for traveling the 100km (62.5 miles) from Curitiba to the beaches in Paraná is about R$ 10,00 (US$ 4.71), only one way. When you come back, you have to pay another R$ 10,00.
tyou missed something
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
The average person in Brazil does not drive 60 miles to work every day-around 100km


In America the average person drive around 60 miles only for work

In Calfiornia people use car for erverthing.-


no only IT people drive cars in Caliifornia


A preson in Brazil can get by with 1 tank a mounth

even if cost 4,449 like you said using a 10 gallon car

you have 4,449 x 10 gallons = 45 dollars

in America a person needs around 4 to 5 tanks a week

in californa right now you have the gas around 3 dollars- please theck la times for update


so if the gas cost

3 dollars x 40 gallons(1 thank equal 10 gallons times 4 weeks)

you have around
120 dollars

Yuo can consideration only the price of gas and how much people pay to drive
in america you pay much mooe.

Brazil = 45 dollars

America= 120 dollars

you pay 266% more to get by in America.

Re: the embocile who can\'t learn to kee
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
"In America the average person drive around 60 miles only for work "

BULLs**t! COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLs**t!

YOU HAVE NO CLUE, DO YOU??!!!!!!!!
WHAT?!
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
"In America the average person drive around 60 miles only for work"

Most. Fraudulent. Post. Ever.

Hey dumbass- do you even know what a mile is?!
You should probably stop embarassing yourself with stats that you clearly pull out of your ass.
Re: \"tyou\" missed something
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
Is this guy for real?!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

What a moron!!!!

HAHAHAHAHHA!

YOU seemed to have missed everything!

...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
Sorry but by using profanity you are not going you point

Please take the time reading the post bellow and try to inform yourself better about life in America




Think your commute is tough? For extreme commuters, 90 minutes is quick
3.4 million travel at least 90 minutes to get to work

By Debbie Howlett and Paul Overberg | Nov 30, 2004
MOUNT POCONO, Pa. -- The hard-and-fast rule on Martz Trailways Bus No. 101: no talking.

Almost as soon as the bus lurches from the station at 5:05 a.m., the 42 bleary-eyed commuters slouch into their seats and squeeze as many z's as they can on the two-hour ride into New York City. The only sounds are soft snores.

"The sun isn't even up," says Sandra Foster, 42, who's been making the 85-mile trip into Manhattan for nearly a year to her job as an information-technology recruiter. "The last thing anyone wants to do is chat ."

Foster is one of 3.4 million Americans who endure a daily "extreme commute" of 90 minutes or more each way to work. They're among the fastest-growing segment of commuters, according to a Census study, Journey to Work , released in March. Their commute times are more than triple the national average of 25.5 minutes each way.

For many extreme commuters, the distance is so far they actually travel through several weather zones -- from the edge of the Mojave Desert to the Pacific Ocean in Southern California, or from Pennsylvania resort towns in the Poconos to Midtown Manhattan.

Extreme commuting is being driven by strong forces. And this year's surge in gasoline prices hasn't deterred people from driving longer distances to get to work. Workplace shifts make it easier to telecommute, use flextime or work part time. Accelerating prices for close-in housing push people farther from cities to find affordable homes.

And government planners, desperate to keep traffic moving, are spending billions to improve mass transit, including far-flung routes for express buses and commuter rail lines. Whatever the outlook, extreme commuters are pounding out the corridors of what will become the next generation of suburbs.

That keeps planners paying close attention, because extreme commuters and housing developers who lure them to the fringes of sprawling metropolitan areas can quickly swamp local roads and government budgets.

People make these lengthy commutes for many reasons. A few want a rural lifestyle. Some are accommodating a spouse who works closer to home. Some even enjoy the trip. But most do it for a chance to buy into the American dream, says Alan Pisarski, a transportation consultant and author of Commuting in America.

"We now have 60 million people living in non-metro areas. And we have people willing to commute ultra-long distances," he says. "It signals a substantial change coming in the way we commute."

'Driving 'til you qualify'

Pisarski suggests that building more roads or mass transit options, such as trains or buses, would only encourage more long-distance commutes. The real change, he says, will be when companies build away from the metropolitan centers. He cites America Online, which built its corporate offices in Dulles, Va., 25 miles west of Washington, D.C., to attract nearby workers who previously commuted into the city. But AOL is the exception, not the rule.

"You keep thinking that there's got to be some kind of tapering off (in commuting distances)," he says. "But it's hard to see any sign of an end."

To afford a house in a neighborhood with good schools, low crime and Saturday morning youth soccer, extreme commuters keep high-paying jobs in the big cities and buy houses well beyond the traditional metropolitan area.

In California's Antelope Valley, across a mountain range from Los Angeles, commuters call it "driving until you qualify."

John Brooks, an economic analyst for Palmdale, a commuter boomtown 65 miles from the heart of Los Angeles with a population of 116,670, says residents literally get on the freeway and drive away from Los Angeles until they find a house with a mortgage payment that they can afford. Every mile away from the city drops the price of a house thousands of dollars.

For example, the median cost of a house in Los Angeles in September was $405,000, according to the California Association of Realtors. In Palmdale it was $275,000. That difference has turned commuting distances that seemed unimaginable 20 years ago into daily routines.

In the Antelope Valley, best known as home to Edwards Air Force Base, commuters talk about "driving down the hill." It's a clever understatement to describe the daily commute made by more than 20,000 area residents that begins at the edge of the Mojave Desert, wends over the San Gabriel Mountains and ends near the Pacific Ocean. On some winter days, drivers brave snowy mountain passes to jobs in the balmy city.

But extreme commutes are not just about the driving distance. They are forcing federal, state and local officials to address continuing congestion and sprawl in ever-wider areas.

Surveys long ago established that 45 minutes is the threshold most commuters were willing to drive one way to work. But the number of Americans making commutes longer than that has grown steadily to more than 19 million, according to the Census. That's one in six commuters, up from one in eight in 1990.

In the Antelope Valley, planners are moving toward mass transit rather than building more freeways to alleviate congestion. Palmdale has lobbied hard to get a station on California's planned $35 billion high-speed train line, which will run from San Francisco to San Diego at speeds of up to 200 mph.

The route, going through Palmdale, is expected to be approved at state planning meetings next month. Voters throughout California would still need to approve a $20 billion bond measure to finance the rail line. According to Brooks, the economic analyst, it likely would take 10 years to build.

But, the train would cut in half the 90-minute commute by car to the city. And Brooks says the effect for commuters would be equivalent to building an eight-lane freeway.

Not all extreme commuters are driving from the distant edges to the middle of big cities. A few are driving from one rural location to another, such as commuters in places like Rifle, Colo.; Salyersville, Ky.; and Indian Wells, Ariz. Most of those commutes of 90-plus minutes cover 100 miles or more on open road, rather than shorter trips on congested freeways.
Are you kidding me?
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
Thank you for again de-railing your own argument.

"Think your commute is tough? For EXTREME commuters, 90 minutes is quick
3.4 million travel at least 90 minutes to get to work"

Do you know what the word EXTREME means? I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is "no" since you can barely type in English.

Also do you rmember, just a few posts up, when you said,

"In America the average person drive around 60 miles only for work"

But in the articel you just posted to support that it says,

"the national average of 25.5 minutes each way"

Now listen closely: not only is there a difference between MILES and MINUTES, with the article you just posted it completely contradicts your previous argumetn and exposes you as a liar, and an unworthy debater. Your credibility is so ruined now (by yourself) that I have no choice but to ignore you as you don't deserve anyone's attention.
...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
Well, in Brazil, only in São Paulo city there are more than 3 million people who take 90 minutes or longer commutes. And they don't go to work in comfortable SUVs or Honda Civics. They use to wake 4am to get to work 8am, and get crowded out buses and trains, much above their capacity, to make some R$ 1.000,00 (US$ 470) a month. They are crowded out like this train in Rio:
http://oglobo.globo.com/foto_g...rem01.jpg

And yet there comes a patriotic moron (patriotário) proud of driving a crappy Honda Civic in the "rich" São Paulo city stating that here we are paying less than americans because we drive less! C'mon man, are you nuts!? Ah, just beware in the lights, as there are many unhappy citizens looking forward to kidnapping you to take a tour through ATMs to get your money and take your luxury sedan from you aftwards ok?
...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
Well, at least one thing is for certain. In the U.S. people don't have to fear having their car ripped apart from potholes that are literally bigger than their car.

And not only that, but we don't have to fear being kidnapped just because you're driving a "luxury" car or wearing a rolex. In Sao Paulo, they sell more bullet-proof glass than in ANY other city in the WORLD!

The above poster is truly lost, he's even admitted that he's never stepped foot in the states by omission.

People like this are truly lost, and they should be trying to make comparisons with corrupt countries in Africa, as they are much closer in comparisons than the U.S.

...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
"Ah, just beware in the lights, as there are many unhappy citizens looking forward to kidnapping you to take a tour through ATMs to get your money and take your luxury sedan from you aftwards ok?"


LOL...I was posting to the same effect at the same time you were. At least we know that we have some people here that are very aware of the REALITY that exists.
...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
In America the average person drive around 60 miles only for work"

But in the articel you just posted to support that it says,

"the national average of 25.5 minutes each way"



Let me teach some math

If you drive around 25 minutes in the freeway and you drive around 70 milesper hours you have :

if you drive 70 p/h

you will drive 35 miles in half hour

you probable will drive 30 miles in 25 minutes one way


YOU WILL DRIVE 60 MILES ROUND TRIP



LOLLLLLLLLL

...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
bozo, you continue to show your ignorance. Firstly, in nearly all cities, by far the most time spent in ones car is in "traffic", and you're certainly not driving 70 mph!! More like "stop and go" traffic that never gets above 50 mph.
HAHAHA!
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
No kidding!

"Let me teach some math

If you drive around 25 minutes in the freeway and you drive around 70 milesper hours you have :

if you drive 70 p/h

you will drive 35 miles in half hour

you probable will drive 30 miles in 25 minutes one way"

So in the U.S. (which you have never been to you admit) the average person gets in their car every morning and floors it to 70 mph all the way to work?!
HAHAHAHA!
This cat is ri-f**king-diculous!
Hey guys, go easy on him
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
The poster who keeps fabricating all of the stastics about the U.S. is obviously not right in the head. He clearly has some sort of mental handicap, so I think you all should just be kind to him. At best he's green with envy about the USA. Either way, I think he should be dealt with gently as he clearly has some self-esteem and mental issues he already has to worry about.

Personally, I'm fromBrazil, but I'v e been to the states before and have been pretty nonplussed by some of the"facts" this man has been using. They're obvious lies. Let me just make it clear that he does not represent (thankfully) a well-informed Brazilian so please don't get the wrong impression of all of us!
Hey guys, go easy on him
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
The poster who keeps fabricating all of the stastics about the U.S. is obviously not right in the head. He clearly has some sort of mental handicap, so I think you all should just be kind to him. At best he's green with envy about the USA. Either way, I think he should be dealt with gently as he clearly has some self-esteem and mental issues he already has to worry about.

Personally, I'm fromBrazil, but I'v e been to the states before and have been pretty nonplussed by some of the"facts" this man has been using. They're obvious lies. Let me just make it clear that he does not represent (thankfully) a well-informed Brazilian so please don't get the wrong impression of all of us!
Us Deparment of Transporation
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
LOLLL - a rest my case


http://www.bts.gov/publications/ highlights_of_the_2001_national_household_travel_survey /html/section_02.html

"Results from the 2001 NHTS show that daily travel in the United States totaled about 4 trillion miles (table 2, table A-smilies/cool.gif, an average of 14,500 miles per person per year


The 2001 NHTS captures various aspects and characteristics of daily and long-distance travel in America. Data collected on daily trips include topics such as the purpose of the trip, the means or mode of transportation used, the duration and length of the trip, the time of day and day of the week when the trip took place, and the number of people in the vehicle during the trip. In the 2001 NHTS, a daily trip is one that occurred on the randomly selected travel day regardless of mode or distance traveled, as long as the person went from one address to another. This section focuses on daily passenger travel.

Results from the 2001 NHTS show that daily travel in the United States totaled about 4 trillion miles (table 2, table A-smilies/cool.gif, an average of 14,500 miles per person per year. On a daily basis, the average person traveled 40 miles, most of it (35 miles) in a personal vehicle. Because more than one person can travel in a personal vehicle, these 35 person miles amounted to about 23 vehicle miles traveled. Annually, the total number of vehicle miles traveled in 2001 was nearly 2.3 trillion.4 In terms of number of trips, people took 411 billion daily trips in 2001, or about 1,500 trips per person in that year (table 2).
Who Is Traveling?

On a daily basis, individuals averaged about four trips (figure 5, table A-9). Although there were no differences in the total number of trips taken based on gender, there were differences based on age. The total number of trips peaked among the working population aged 25 to 54 (4.6 trips on an average day). Children under the age of 5 had the fewest trips on average (3.2 trips), followed by children between the ages of 5 and 14 and adults over the age of 65 (figure 5, table A-9). Not surprisingly, drivers and employed adults had a higher number of trips (4.5 trips for both groups) compared to nondrivers and unemployed adults (2.6 and 3.7 trips respectively) (table A-9). The NHTS also collected information on the travel behavior of persons 15 or older who have a medical condition that limits their travel. About 8.6 percent of persons report having a medical condition that limits their travel (table A-1).5 As would be expected, these persons had lower trip rates (2.8 per day) than those who did not report any such medical condition (4.4 per day) (table A-9).
How Do They Travel?

The majority of daily trips occurred in personal vehicles (87 percent) (figure 6, table A-10). About 38 percent of all trips were personal vehicle trips with a single occupant (driver only) while 49 percent of all trips were personal vehicle trips with more than one occupant. About two percent of all trips nationwide were transit trips.6 School buses accounted for almost 2 percent of the trips, and walk trips accounted for almost 9 percent of all trips.
Why Do They Travel?

Knowing why people take trips helps urban planners lay out residential, work, and commercial structures that minimize travel times and distances. A large portion of trips were taken for family and personal reasons such as shopping and running errands (45 percent) (figure 7, table A-11) (See glossary for definitions). Social and recreation trips, such as vacations and visiting friends, accounted for 27 percent of the trips. Despite the strong focus on work and commuting trips by researchers and urban planners, commute trips7 accounted for about 15 percent of all trips taken in the United States. Trips made for work, other than the commute to and from work, accounted for an additional 3 percent of trips. Trips to school and church accounted for about 10 percent of all trips.
When Do They Travel?

Congestion is a concern for urban planners and drivers alike. Fifty percent of adults in the United States say that they are somewhat to severely concerned about highway congestion (table A-1). Daily trips (including nonpersonal vehicle trips) are not spread evenly across the time of day, however. Nor are strong peaks and valleys associated with the morning and evening commute periods (figure 8, table A-12). For example, more daily trips are taken between noon and 1 p.m. (7.4 percent) than between 8 and 9 a.m. (5.5 percent). Daily trips are spread more evenly across the days of the week. The fewest trips are taken on Sunday (13 percent) compared to Friday, when the most trips are taken (16 percent) (see table A-13).
How Many People Are Traveling?

Vehicle occupancy can be conceptualized as a function of both the number of people in the vehicle and the distance traveled on the trip. Thus a trip of 12 miles has twice the weight of a 6-mile trip. In general, the weighted (by miles traveled in trip) occupancy rates of personal vehicle trips in the nation is 1.6 persons per vehicle mile (figure 9, table A-14). There are differences in weighted occupancy based on the purpose of the trip. Trips for social or recreational purposes have an average weighted occupancy of 2.1 persons per vehicle mile compared to work trips (1.1 persons per vehicle mile) (figure 9, table A-14). Other factors affecting weighted occupancy rates are time and day of travel. Weekday trips have a weighted occupancy of 1.5 compared to 2 people per vehicle mile on weekend trips (table A-15).
Experiences Behind the Wheel

Given that a majority of daily trips are in personal vehicles, it is of interest to know how much of an adult's8 day is spent behind the wheel driving a personal vehicle. Overall, for all adults, including nondrivers and those who may not have driven in a given day, 55 minutes are spent behind the wheel driving 29 miles a day (figure 10). There are differences based on adult demographic characteristics such as age, sex, and worker status. Even though men and women average the same number of trips (4 trips) on each day, men drive further (38 v. 21 miles) and longer (67 v. 44 minutes) (table A-16 and A-17). Similarly, there are differences based on the age of the adult—these differences mimic the pattern of the overall total number of trips taken (figure 10). Teenagers drive the least on an average day—for about 25 minutes and 12 miles. Adults over the age of 65 also drive less on an average day compared to other adult age groups (20 to 64 years)—39 minutes and 17 miles. Adults between the ages of 25 and 54 drive the most—64 minutes and 35 miles a day. Workers drive further (36 v. 16 miles) and for longer (65 v. 35 minutes) compared to nonworkers (tables A-16 and A-17).
End Notes

4. This compares to 2.1 trillion vehicle miles (standard error 23.4 billion miles) traveled in 1995, an increase of about 11 percent between 1995 and 2001. (1995 Nationwide Personal Transportation Survey).

5. Individuals 15 and older were asked if they had a medical condition that made it difficult to travel outside the home. This is a self reported condition, and does not correspond to the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 or other formalized definition of a person with a disability.

6. For the purpose of this report, transit is defined as including local public bus, commuter bus, commuter train, subway/elevated train, and street car/trolley.

7. Commute trips are defined as those trips made for the purpose of going to or returning from work. However, given the definition of a daily trip, those reported as commuting trips were not necessarily anchored by the respondent's home or workplace (for return commutes). Therefore, care should be taken in analyzing work trip distances, recognizing that the distance for these trips is often, but not always, the distance from home to work.

8. In this case, adults include all individuals ages 15 and above, regardless of whether they are drivers or may have driven during a given day.
...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
My post above proves that average american drives around


40 to 50 miles a day
...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
Base on that american pay more for gas that Brazilian

...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
Your post above proves that you're an idiot who can't read his own posts.
...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
But of course, you proved that a long time ago now didn't you?
...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
well then you should complain with the US Deparment of Transportation


LOLLLL

Checkmate

Have a good day
smilies/smiley.gif



...
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
one thing you need to understand, that obviously you don't, and never will. Americans CHERISH independance. When we turn 16 the first thing we do is get a drivers license, and if your parents can afford it they buy you a car.

Having an automobile, and not having anyone to depend on is one of the means of independence.

The United States has the BEST road system in the WORLD...bar none! The roads are extremely safe and one can travel any distance averaging 70 miles per hour with no sweat, and no worries about getting kidnapped or they're car destroyed.

The United States has 12 MILLION MILES of PAVED or CONCRETE highways....brazil has 140,000 KILOMETERS of paved or concrete highways. That means that U.S. has approximately 130 TIMES the number and distance of roads "asphaltada".

Cars, as well as gasoline, are MUCH cheaper in the U.S. than in Brazil, as well as the average american makes 40,000 dollars per year, or $3,350 per month, the average brazilian makes between 500-700 dollars per month. So the average american makes anywhere from 5-7 times per month/year more than the average brazilian.

BUT, when one takes into account that Brazil is the WORLD LEADER in income disparity, with 2nd place coming in a distant second, one can securely put that figure in the neighborhood of 10 times more, or greater!




Statistics and Study about Income Disparity in Brazil:

http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Sociology/faculty/silver/sirs/papers/veras-english.pdf


Study by Brown University...one of the top university's in the WORLD pertaining to this type of research...and one of the TOP in the world period!



"there is major presence of Brazilian social inequality. Unequal distribution of resources

The unequal distribution of resources is, thus, detached as the main determinant for poverty in Brazil, especially income inequality that has been remaining for centuries in surprising stability, one of the highest in the international comparison. In the economical measurement of inequality, the traditional instruments are usually the above-mentioned GINI coefficient; the THEIL index; the ratio between the average income of the richest 10% and of the poorest 40%; the ratio between the average income of the richest 20% and the average income of the poorest 20%.

The international comparison with GINI coefficients reveals that only South Africa and Malawi have degrees of inequality higher than Brazil’s, where it is 0.60. “... it represents, in the group of 92 countries with available information, a pattern only reached by the four countries with the highest degree of inequality: Guatemala, Brazil, South Africa and Malawi.”

About the ratio between the richest 10% and the poorest 40%, there is a certain pattern in the international distribution with figures stretching to 20% at most. In Brazil it is 28, while in other countries it is lower: in the United States (5), France (6,5), Argentina (10) and Colombia (15), Ivory Coast (20). The value of 28 times of the average income of the richest 10% and of the poorest 40% PUTS BRAZIL IN A DISTANT POSITION FROM ANY RECOGNIZABLE PATTERN IN INTERNATIONAL SCENE IN TERMS OF DISTRIBUTIVE JUSTICE!!!!

On what concerns the ratio between average income of the richest 20% and of the poorest 20%, the majority of the countries presents this ratio under 10. Once again, according to information given by the Report of Human Development of 1999 (PNUD), BRAZIL IS THE COUNTRY WITH THE HIGHEST DEGREE OF INEQUALITY because the ratio between average income of the richest 20% and the poorest 20% gets over the expanded value of 30, putting it in the singular position of CHAMPION OF INEQUALITY!!!



Speaking of gas . .
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
"President Lula who is expected to announce his re-election bid in the coming weeks wants to make the achievement of oil self sufficiency a matter of national pride for Brazil and apparently a launching pad for his continued political aspirations. A massive television campaign costing over US$ 15 million is paving the way for the Friday announcement."

Brazil, 15 million of your tax dollars are being used to re-elect the man who probably stole at least that much with his f**king mensalao buddies! This is a f**king disgrace. Brazil: Self-sufficient in oil, tons of gas and ethanol yet gas is still more expensive in Brazil than it is in a country (USA) that is hated by the very country it imports oil from, namely Venezuela. This is why all politicians need to be terminated with extreme prejuidice!!!! You say down with Bush - f**k YES!! I say down with LULA TOO!!
Gas in EU
written by Guest, April 20, 2006
Well here in Germany gas is about $6.00 per gallon. On the main highways these people drive 140 plus and don't seem to mind. A lot of people where I work drive 60k each way.The main highways are very good but the local roads are of the same quality as Brazil's. I don't see US as good as some people in this list and see Brazil as much better. Actually everywhere has its problems. We just pick which ones we want to deal with and which we want to complain about.
Re: Gas in EU
written by Guest, April 21, 2006
Perhaps you mean that some local roads in Germany have the same quality of brazilian highways? Are you aware of the dangers of driving fast in roads full of holes?
For the price of the gallon I doubt brazilian price would'nt be the same if there was no additions to the gas. Anyway, Germany is not an example to follow, because this price is due to very high taxes. You germans didn't learn eh? You had a Hitler because you gave too much power to government, then came americans to fix the western side and now you again give too much power to the government. Yeah, really, most of you deserve the 10 million unemployed, the stagnant economy and the astronomical prices for fooding and housing. But that's ok for you right? After all, there are problems everywhere (wow, great conclusion, you just forgot to say they may vary in intensity lol). I only feel sorry for those germans who got the clue and couldn't leave, though I feel comfortable by knowing that many of your bright young engineers are leaving the country to work in the US, where they earn more and spend less.
Anyway, I propose to you, why don't you leave Germany then, and come to live here in Brazil? Try making a living with the average wages people earn here and you'll see that you need to avoid driving a car as much as possible. You'll not be earning euros anymore.
Last but not least, why must we always say what's good about this and what's good about that? Man, the author got it completely wrong, this area is all f**ked up in Brazil, what Petrobrás is doing is insane and unfair and you expect people only to congratulate Petrobrás? Problems have to be faced! Certainly Brazil has good things but that's not a good thing.
Re: Gas in EU
written by Guest, April 21, 2006
Re: Gas in EU

You are simply a retard. How ANYONE can go from a discussion about alternative energy markets to talking about Hitler, and how the US bailed out the world, in one breath truly deserves the golden idiot award for “unprecedented stupidity under ridiculously light and easy circumstances”. But, alas, I reckon you’re just another of the legions of over-reactionary Americans, that on a knee-jerk impulses, are automatically programmed to access grade 3 International History schools lessons whenever you hear the word “Germany” mentioned. You truly are a pathetic individual Ralphy.

I use to be a great defender of Americans, until I got to know too many of them. Loud, obtuse, easily excitable, ignorant etc. They truly fit into the generalizations we have about them. And if you don’t believe me, your very own government thinks so too.

Read and learn Yanks….

-----------------------------------
US Government tells Americans how to act abroad.
The Telegraph.

'Speak softly, don't argue and slow down'
By Philip Sherwell
(Filed: 16/04/2006)

Loud and brash, in gawdy garb and baseball caps, more than three million of them flock to our shores every year. Shuffling between tourist sites or preparing to negotiate a business deal, they bemoan the failings of the world outside the United States.

The rep**ation of the "Ugly American" abroad is not, however, just some cruel stereotype, but - according to the American government itself - worryingly accurate. Now, the State Department in Washington has joined forces with American industry to plan an image make-over by issuing guides for Americans travelling overseas on how to behave.


'Ugly American' abroad: Worryingly accurate

Under a programme starting next month, several leading US companies will give employees heading abroad a "World Citizens Guide" featuring 16 etiquette tips on how they can help improve America's battered international image.

Business for Diplomatic Action (BDA), a non-profit group funded by big American companies, has also met Karen Hughes, the head of public diplomacy at the State Department, to discuss issuing the guide with every new US passport. The goal is to create an army of civilian ambassadors.

The guide offers a series of "simple suggestions" under the slogan, "Help your country while you travel for your company". The advice targets a series of common American traits and includes:

• Think as big as you like but talk and act smaller. (In many countries, any form of boasting is considered very rude. Talking about wealth, power or status - corporate or personal - can create resentment.)

• Listen at least as much as you talk. (By all means, talk about America and your life in our country. But also ask people you're visiting about themselves and their way of life.)

• Save the lectures for your kids. (Whatever your subject of discussion, let it be a discussion not a lecture. Justified or not, the US is seen as imposing its will on the world.)

• Think a little locally. (Try to find a few topics that are important in the local popular culture. Remember, most people in the world have little or no interest in the World Series or the Super Bowl. What we call "soccer" is football everywhere else. And it's the most popular sport on the planet.)

• Slow down. (We talk fast, eat fast, move fast, live fast. Many cultures do not.)

• Speak lower and slower. (A loud voice is often perceived as bragging. A fast talker can be seen as aggressive and threatening.)

• Your religion is your religion and not necessarily theirs. (Religion is usually considered deeply personal, not a subject for public discussions.)

• If you talk politics, talk - don't argue. (Steer clear of arguments about American politics, even if someone is attacking US politicians or policies. Agree to disagree.)

Keith Reinhard, one of New York's top advertising executives, who heads BDA, said: "Surveys consistently show that Americans are viewed as arrogant, insensitive, over-materialistic and ignorant about local values. That, in short, is the image of the Ugly American abroad and we want to change it."

The guide also offers tips on the dangers of dressing too casually, the pluses of learning a few words of the local language, use of hand gestures and even map-reading.

Of course, US foreign policy - and perceptions of it - currently has the biggest impact on the image of Americans abroad. President George W Bush recognised this when he appointed Ms Hughes, a close confidante, to head the country's public diplomacy push. But Mr Reinhard and his colleagues are convinced that individual Americans can also make a difference.

They also want to highlight the positives in foreigners' impression of the US as a land of opportunity, freedom, diversity and "can-do spirit" by boosting business and domestic travel to America.

"In many parts of the world, America is not getting the benefit of the doubt right now. People prefer to dump on us instead. But for many people, corporate America is their main point of contact, and that's where we come in."

Business for Diplomatic Action, which was formed in 2004, has already distributed 200,000 -passport-sized guides tailored to college students going abroad.

The group's next target is to raise funding for a colourful pictorial World Citizen's Guide For Kids for children on school or youth group trips. However, a spokesman for the National Tourism Agency for Britain said last night: "Americans have a certain rep**ation which, for the majority, is undeserved. These guidelines sound like good common sense but they're not something the majority of our American visitors need. As tourists, they're out to enjoy themselves and have a good time. We continue to welcome them."


telegraph.co.uk

.
...
written by Guest, April 21, 2006
"You truly are a pathetic individual Ralphy"

You're an idiot Macu, lol, once again, you prove yourself to be an assuming idiot over and over, it wasn't me that made that claim. Matter of fact, this is my first post in this thread.

How does it feel to be such an "all knowing" assuming idiot all the time that is just plain wrong, over and over.
I am also convinced!
written by Guest, April 21, 2006
The post above proves that average american drives around 40 to 50 miles a day.


Re: Re: Gas in EU
written by Guest, April 21, 2006
Who is the f**king idiot here? First, FYI: 1 - I am a brazilian with german ancestry from Austria, so I know the german culture from home, ok?
2 - You are pround of paying nearly 3 times the price of gas as the american and that makes me ashamed of having such an idiot as coming from the same people I came from;
3 - The subject is not about Hitler, but about the dangers of giving too much power to the government. They always f**k your life. Read Hayek and von Mises, ok?
4 - Germany is not as f**ked up as Brazil and the United States are not as f**ked up as Germany. And you'll soon have terrible problems if you just think everywhere there are problems and do not fight them. That mentality is widespread in Brazil and destroyed the country, as well as is destroying France and Germany. Beware;
5 - Our world is no rosen garden, and saying the wrong things are marvellous just makes it worse. Criticism and competition are what make people move forward. That was the good thing in german culture that the current generation is losing;
6 - If you feel ressented by hearing something you don't like in a public forum, just stop coming here. Remember, before saying bulls**t, I am the brazilian guy here and you are the foreigner, so your complain is off topics ok?
Read and Learn Yanks . .
written by Guest, April 21, 2006
As we are in Brazzil.com let's get a few things straight about tourists abroad. Yeah I'm truly discouraged and disappointed when I see Americans comporting themselves like idiots, but to single them out as the only people in need of "cultural training" is foolish and demonstrates what an ignorant prick you are. You certainly seem like one to me and that's just in print.

First Germans and Italians are by far seen as the biggest scourge in Brazil - at least as sexual predators. EVERY BRAZILIAN WOMEN knows that German and Italian men are among some of the most deviant humans on earth. Plane loads of each go to Brazil on "un-official" package tours to sleep with 14 year-old girls. Men from all countries do the same but not nearly at the rate approaching that of Germans and Italians. I have been to Thailand on 2 occasions and have never seen so many German men in one place in my life since I visited Berlin. They were all strolling around with 14 year-old boys having a GAY old time. I remember spending a week in Canoa Quebrada and we always knew when German tourists hit town because we could hear them from a kilometer away, yelling at each other over their 20th pint of beer dressed in ass-less leather pants and rocking blonde dreads.

Traveling around Argentina the loudest and most annoying tourists were the French. They surprisingly had VERY poor language skills and talk about raising their voices for the world to hear . . . They spent every single moment of their time in package trips and never bothered to actually speak with anyone outside their groups of 40.

That brings us to the other group of travelers - the Brit, Aussi, Kiwi contingent. Pounding beers and copping coke in every port of call - yes that would be them. Bringing their special brand of hooliganism to every corner of the world. Funny it was always a Brit or Aussie getting arrested in Thailand for not being able to stay away from drugs - even for a few days. In the US they are also considered a group of people who are loud and easily excitable, often getting arrested after binge drinking and getting into a fight (usually getting stomped in the process). Argentina and Brazil are always fun places for Brits and Aussies to visit as well. Lots of cheap coke and a large crowd whom they can frighten with their sunburnt/pasty white zebra-like skin and orthodontia -or shoud I say lack thereof.

Another funny thing - so many Aussies and Kiwis live in London that they have all become this overwhelming homogenous crowd that scampers about the planet doing coke and ecstasy while intravenously "consuming" Guiness. It's hard to tell them apart anymore. Brit, Aussie, Kiwi - they're pretty much all the same as they rarely interact with anyone outside their clique of people they worked with in some restaurant back in jolly old England. They have become increasingly arrogant and judgmental of Americans when their own soldiers, save Kiwis, are in Iraq beating and killing Iraqis right alongside American soldiers. Funny thing that kind of hypocrisy. "I didn't vote for John Howard or Tony Blair so I deserve a pass on the stereotypes and discrimination" Funny I didn't vote for Bush or agree with the war but I still have to hear from pricks like you.

Say what you want, but when I travel I meet FAR more Americans who speak or attempt to speak foreign languages than Brits. Most South Americans agree that Brits are the WORST when it comes to interraction in another language. I spent plenty of time traveling with Brits, Aussies and Kiwis in South America, but not ONE spoke any Spanish or Portuguese - never tried and got EASILY EXCITED when they failed to understand or be understood by the locals. Talk about obtuse. Just remember dickhead, everyone has their own perceptions about who is and idiot and who is not. Americans suffer lots of discrimination based on the actions of our s**thead president and his foreign policy and quite honestly none of the Americans I meet traveling are Neo-cons or voted for Bush - at least not here in South America. SO who are the real f**king idiots given that ignorant, obtuse and easily excitable behavior are the criteria?
Re: Read and Learn Yanks
written by Guest, April 21, 2006
While I can't comment on the uncouth claims this poster made about deviant Germans and Itlians, I can say that his point about Americans is correct. I'm personally of Dutch decent and live in Paris now but I've been abroad to many places, and there seems to be two types of AMericans: those who are making an extended stay abroad and those who are just yokels that got a deal on a vacation. The former is usually polite, courteous, and makes an effort to speak at least some of the native tongue ro isn't rude if they don't. The latter is a group of obnoxious idiots. However, it seems that most Americans who were dumb enough to vote for Bush don't leave the country. And most of the more suave, well-informed Americans are the ones who go abroad and have to take s**t for what their president is doing while the idiots who voted for him sit at home and watch TV.
Chris Cox, boynton beach, florida
written by Guest, April 21, 2006
I MUST RESPOND TO THE GUEST COMMENTS LISTED BELOW, SO I WILL CAPITOLIZE. A inveja mata. Brazil is self suficient in energy and no one in the world can face Brazilian productivity in agricultural commodities.

TRUE, BRAZIL HAS CREATED A SUCCESSFUL INFRASTRUCTURE FOR ENERGY INDEPENDENCE...BUT IF I UNDERSTAND THE "GUESTS" COMMENTS ABOVE, THE UNITED STATES IS THE LARGEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL FARM PRODUCT PRODUCTION COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. NO OTHER COUNTRY COMES EVEN CLOSE TO THE FOOD OUTPUT OF THE USA.

....while others are facing tribal wars in the middle east, and they are losing it as they did lost in Vietnan a generation ago
oops...Written by Guest on 2006-04-19

THE USA IS NOT FACING A TRIBAL WAR, WE ARE FIGHTING A GLOBAL ENEMY, TERROISTS. THESE MUSLIM EXTREMISTS WANT TO DEFEAT THE WEST, YES INCLUDING BRAZIL. THEY DESPISE EVERYTHING YOU, BRAZIL, AND US, THE UNITED STATES, REPRESENTS. OUR LIBERTIES, OUR WAY OF LIFE, OUR VALUES, OUR ASPIRATIONS. IRAQ IS NO VIETNAM. TO COMPARE THE TWO IS FOOL-HARLDY. WE FACE A DEADLY ENEMY IN TODAY'S HYPER-DANGEROUS WORLD. AND THE UNITED STATES WILL NOT LOSE THE BATTLE. SO RATHER THAN STAND-BY AND DO NOTHING AS MOST COUNTRY'S WILL CHOOSE TO DO, THE US IS PREPARED TO ONCE AGAIN, AS IT HAS THROUGHOUT HISTORY, SACRIFICE ITS YOUNG BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN IN ORDER TO DEFEAT A ENEMY THE WORLD MUST LOATHE AND DEFEAT. SO STOP CRITICISING AND DO SOMETHING.

AS ONE AMERICAN, I'VE HEARD ENOUGH OF THE WORLD'S INANE AND JUVENILE CRITICISM OF OUR GREAT COUNTRY.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!
...
written by Guest, April 21, 2006
"...SACRIFICE ITS YOUNG BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN..."

Now, that's foolish.
Re: Chris Cox, boynton beach, florida
written by Guest, April 21, 2006
There is an american who really recognizes the true threats to his nation and lifestyle and the acts that made their country great! You got the point man!

I would just like to make two small corrections to your views, and bring some information, which I'm sure they won't state your point of view wrong but instead, strenghten it.

Currently, United States are having problems keeping up the pace with brazilian agribusiness, which shows high productivity and lower prices. And that happens both because most of agribusiness in Brazil is a free market thing and in the US it's not, it's highly boosted by government incentives. In fact, US does to agribusiness what Brazil does for other market segments, and of course that is causing problems for your country. And Brazil does for agribusiness what the US does for other market segments, and of course, it works. Here is an article that brings some support to this view:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3723/is_9_15/ai_109406586/pg_3

I have written about the agribusiness market in my blog too (as for now, only in portuguese):
http://liberdadenet.blogspot.com

And Brazil did not create a successful infrastructure for energy independence. What Brazil is doing is a plain simple abuse of power against its own people. They have raised fuel prices to levels unbearable for most of citizens, above international levels, highly suppressing demand while making huge investments that no other company risking bankruptcy in a free market would do, to extract even more oil. That'll make our reserves to be reduced in a time where oil is running out in the world and it could be bought cheaper from abroad. That's simply nonsense that costs us a lot now and will cost us in the future!

About the rest, I must add that I agree fully with you. You have a great country, enjoy an unparalleled level of freedom and, while you have problems, they are easier to solve than here. You americans just need to be aware of the dangers inside and outside, to continue having the great country you have.

Again, pay a visit to my blog: http://liberdadenet.blogspot.com
...
written by Guest, April 22, 2006
I must admit that the negative propaganda above is going pretty strong.


We all have to remember that in Brazil this year, Elections are going to be crucial for the opposition parties.

The numbers show that Lula has a better chance of winning again.


I’m always surprise by the amount of time people put trying to put down any positive remarks about Brazil.


I’m true believer in free of speech but also I believe that most the time some people here just have a preset Agenda.


Brazil probable never claim to be a paradise. They important point here today is:


Tons of people in Brazil are doing well in life and still working hard to a better Brazil.



I’m sure is always a time to complain about something that you don’t like.

In the other hand, should be a time where people should say thanks and be happy for the improvement that the nation achieved in the last 30 years.


Let be fair and balance in our points of view and give credit to the people that deserve.


Ps- Remember, An intelligent and well round person does not use profanity our pejorative words to make a point.
...
written by Guest, April 22, 2006
and the above poster is obviously not one of the 40% of brazilians making less than $2/day!
...
written by Guest, April 22, 2006
Anything wrong about pointing brazilian problems? The Workers Party has done that for the last 30 years and now that they are in power this is wrong? Let me tell you one thing, your government which you don't want to criticize tried to push censorship against the media and the cinema, remember? It also wanted to review statistics generated by government branches, choosing what to publish or not, after IBGE showed that Brazil has more problems with obesity than hunger. Now, your government insits in pushing a parallel Internet for the country. Of course this new Internet is not for the brazilian people to decide who can have Internet domains but, instead, to isolate brazilian people and not let them know anything else about the world. Your government is a danger and has attracted opposition even from some non-political people like me, ok?

We only have crap to vote in these elections. f**k Garotinho and f**k Alckmin yes, but most of all, f**k the worst among them, Lula!

A brazilian citizen who doesn't belong to any political party and doesn't want to see himself, his family and his people enslaved.
...
written by Guest, April 22, 2006
and the above poster is obviously not one of the 40% of brazilians making less than $2/day!
...
written by Guest, April 22, 2006
Like I said before, I’m a person that truly believes in free speech.


The Webster dictionary gives the mean of the word Propaganda as-



: Ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause;



A lot times the propaganda has not purpose. The true intentions are only to do damage.


Is not constructive criticism but only a destructive criticism


The main topic if you notice is:




“Brazil's Ethanol Lesson Is How to Manage Our Oil Addiction”



We could have a conversation about poverty in Brazil (or even poverty in America) but we sure would be going out of the main idea of this main theme


Right now that topic is ethanol and if you have any opinion about his topic be free to do it.

Brazil right now is doing a great job in this area. Can you just be happy a least one in your life?
...
written by Guest, April 22, 2006
No, I'm not happy about that because Brazil is not doing a great job. Brazil didn't need to invest the alleged R$ 68 billion (about US$ 32 billion) now (http://www.autosuficiencia.com...alor=geral). That's just stupid! With that money, lots of taxes could be cut in the price of oil, and even if it happened to be imported at higher prices, we could have more consumption and lower prices is gas stations. Besides that, we wouldn't be spending our own reserves, what really makes us more vulnerable to lack of oil in the future.
You may argue that technological development is good and such... well, great for Petrobrás to have technologies to extract oil from deep water and to make Brazil self-sufficient. Point for them. But one thing is to have the technology, which Petrobrás already had, another thing, much different, is to use it to extract more oil. It definitely didn't need to use the developed technology to extract oil right now. It would be cheaper to continue importing, just that. Does that sound like a great job for you?
In addition, the argument that Brazil is then free from international fluctuations simply does not apply, because Petrobrás always raises prices when international prices go up and never reduces prices when they go down... and brazilians keep thinking that prices are always rising...

Last but not least, americans should thank Brazil and Europe for the high taxes they impose on their citizens to use fuel. And they should thank specially Brazil for doing such an insanity. That reduces the international demand on oil and lets more oil at the disposal of americans, who can pay less for the oil because the first guys are paying the difference and pour more gas into their SUVs gas tanks. Oh great job!

P.S: read this definition of freedom of speech: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Speech
As you can see, it's basically the right of an individual to express his/her opinions, may they damage someone's rep**ation or not. Well, if you want to interpret my opinions as propaganda, ok. But remember it's also an exercise of freedom of speech ok? Any restrictions to freedom of speech are simply that: restrictions.
...
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
The problem is that you mix two points


The price of oil in general

The meaning of “auto sufficient”


The meaning “auto-sufficient” had nothing do to with the price of the oil inside Brazil.

Oil prices in any place in the world are connected to the open trade market.


The mean of self-sufficient means that:


Brazil as a country, today, does not depend in foreigner oil to provide for the daily consumption.


That’s it !!!


Simple conception.


You have to look at the Big Picture.


The world today is a very unstable place.


The United States government truly believes that is very important for a country to invest in auto-sufficient and development of “no fossil fuels”.


You must (no offense) learn how to write a point of view with creating a “fruit salad”.



You really need to stop been anger and be my objective in your point of view..
















Whoa, whoa
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
Wait,

"You must (no offense) learn how to write a point of view with creating a “fruit salad”.



You really need to stop been anger and be my objective in your point of view.. "

Wait- so he is your objective and the two of you are going to create a fruit salad?
You are one strange and perverted individual.
...
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
"The United States government truly believes that is very important for a country to invest in auto-sufficient and development of “no fossil fuels”.


And why are you quoting the american gov'ts. viewpoints on things?? You've had nothing but derogatory remarks about them but now you'll use their opinions in your cause?

And, the word as you are using it is spelled B-E-I-N-G, not b-e-e-n.


...
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
The problem is that you mix two points


The price of oil in general

The meaning of “auto sufficient”


The meaning “auto-sufficient” had nothing do to with the price of the oil inside Brazil.

Oil prices in any place in the world are connected to the open trade market.


The mean of self-sufficient means that:


Brazil as a country, today, does not depend in foreigner oil to provide for the daily consumption.


That’s it!!!


Simple conception.


You have to look at the Big Picture.


The world today is a very unstable place.


The United States government truly believes that is very important for a country to invest in auto-sufficient and development of “no fossil fuels”.




You must (no offense) learn how to write a point of view without creating a “fruit salad”.



You really need to stop been anger and be more objective in your point of view.
Wait again....
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
Wait,

"You must (no offense) learn how to write a point of view with creating a “fruit salad”.



You really need to stop been anger and be my objective in your point of view.. "

Wait- so he is your objective and the two of you are going to create a fruit salad?
You are one strange and perverted individual.
...
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
No man, you completely missed the point. Take a look at Petrobrás website. They are investing yet another R$ 38 billion this year and will total an investment of US$ 50 billion only in Lula government. All of that to rise brazilian capacity of oil production from 1.5 million to 2 million barrels a day. In the case of a crisis, reducing 25% of our consumption would be hard, but not impossible, and investments could be made on this stage (say, at a US$ 180/barrel). Just a matter of letting free market to operate and allow vans to carry people to work instead of our monopolistic buses and trains (remember, cars are the biggest oil consumers. I'm not making any fruit salad here, everything that I said is related to oil consumption and extraction). We have to consider also that Petrobrás lifting cost is almost twice as much as international price, not considering government prices. The world average is about US$ 2.30 and Petrobrás total a little bit more than US$ 4.00 per extracted barrel (http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/company/cnl51249.htm). The truth is: the world is f**ked up, but there is an international oil market yet; the investments made by Petrobrás could give us some 3 or 4 years of the imported oil we need, even if the prices went up to US$ 100/barrel; Petrobrás is not showing any signs of reducing our exposal to international prices variations, as they always raise the prices when international prices go up; as a company strategy, it's ok for Petrobrás to do that, because they are playing in an international market where they can make huge profits and that's why they are doing that; in a long-term energy security consideration, the point they have been defending, they are in fact creating problems for Brazil, because they are extracting oil that didn't need to be extracted now. And of course, increasing the output by about 25% makes our reserves to last 25% less. And according to Petrobrás itself, we have reserves for only 20 years.

I'm not against the extraction of oil. In a free market environment, the best decisions under an economical point of view tend to be made. What Petrobrás is doing, from the company point of view is not wrong. The wrong thing is the bulls**t they tell to brazilians, when they say that would make us safer. No, they are not making us safer and they are getting their profits by obligating us to buy from their monopoly. In addition, they say they are responsible for defending our oil reserves, but instead they are just extracting what they didn't need.
Again, thanks for proving my point.
written by Guest, April 23, 2006


Did you read the text above?

The above text says:

“ You must (no offense) learn how to write a point of view without creating a “fruit salad”.



”You really need to stop been anger and be more objective in your point of view”



Did you notice ???

Again, thanks for proving my point.

Please, you really need professional help

Your anger is not healthy- (no offense)

I hope you have a great day.





Remember
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
lYou make a comment





“Average is about US$ 2.30 and Petrobrás total a little bit more than US$ 4.00 per extracted barrel”


The 4 dollars that you quote is money been used inside Brazil. Remember that the 4 dollars pay for pensions, salaries and benefits and will be used to buy things inside Brazil.


l
used to buy what??
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
The 4 dollars that you quote is money been used inside Brazil. Remember that the 4 dollars pay for pensions, salaries and benefits and will be used to buy things inside Brazil.

Like what - votes from senators??
Re: Again, thanks for proving my point.
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
Hey wait a minute,

”You really need to stop been anger and be more objective in your point of view”

That's not what you said the first time, so why is it in quotes?
I recall you saying something along the lines of:

"You really need to stop been anger and be my objective in your point of view.. "

So, now he's not your objective? What was he going to be your objective for?
(Man, this guy is strange)
and another thing you can buy . .
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
In addition it could be used to pay for Loser Lula's 15 million dollar, tax payer sponsored "Energy Independent Brazil" re-election campaign. Just think, he will spend 15 million dollars of Brazilian tax payer money to fly around the country and boast about Brazil's energy independence while charging you over $4 a gallon.
...
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
4 dollars that you quote is money been used inside Brazil. Remember that the 4 dollars pay for pensions, salaries and benefits and will be used to buy things inside Brazil.


Like what - votes from senators?





Again, you are so anger that you are not even reading the posts

Read again please

Remember that the 4 dollars pay for pensions, salaries and benefits and will be used to buy things inside Brazil.

Petrobras generates around 100 thousand jobs direct and indirect inside Brazil.

You have from employees making money to small business that are making money from employee daily spending Petrobras pays for outsourcing service- Marketing, transportation and services.


To say that all the money from Petrobras goes to Senators is just silly.

So are going to start another topic again??

The money used by politicians in Election times?

You see. You are doing the “Fruit Salad” again
Your English sucks . . .
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
Hey f**khead - you sound like a broken record.... I don't know what kind of argument you have going with SOMEONE ELSE over fruit salad, but I don't give a s**t. I am pointing out that your lovely Petrobras is still partially state-owned and some of its proceeds most certainly could have been used to buy votes. You have no idea where that money goes. Little boys like you are so busy juggling or washing windshields on the street that it would be difficult for you to know what the government is doing most of the time. Moreover nobody said all money derived from Petrobras went to electing politicians you retard. Why don't you write in Portuguese from now on - your English sucks.
...
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
not only does his english suck, but he's "mentally challenged", lol.
The money that will be spent in Brazil..
written by Guest, April 23, 2006
Are you sure Petrobrás is spending those dollars in Brazil? Take a look at only these two press releases:

http://www.rolls-royce.com/media/showPR.jsp?PR_ID=40284
http://www.rolls-royce.com/energy/overview/oilgas/ww_fpso.htm

As far as I know, Rolls Royce is not a brazilian company, is it?
...
written by Guest, April 24, 2006
"Are you sure Petrobrás is spending those dollars in Brazil? Take a look at only these two press releases:
As far as I know, Rolls Royce is not a brazilian company, is it?"

But, yet another "100% brasileiro" project I'm assuming....LOL.
...
written by Guest, April 24, 2006
Let the Brazilian ethanol be, if there´s something we don´t need is a bunch of red neck Americans comming to our doomed country to plant sugar cane. If you want to buy Petrobras stocks, please do so, otherwise it´s just a small time company from a small time country.
haven\'t you heard . . . ?
written by Guest, April 24, 2006
Haven't you heard the news?? Rolls Royce is now Brazilian owned with 800 trillion dollars in profits since moving to Brazil. Exports are up 9000% and the Brazilian economy will grow by 678% this coming year. In addition to the recent purchase of Rolls, these are some little known inventions native to Brazil. They invented the jet engine, the computer, the telephone, space travel, satellite communications, the internet, Playstation, Mac n Cheese and apple pie.
...
written by Guest, April 24, 2006
Let the Brazilian ethanol be, if there´s something we don´t need is a bunch of red neck Americans comming to our doomed country to plant sugar cane.

Don't worry - you already have a bunch of "much much smarter" Chinese planting soy in tons of places throughout your country and EATING YOUR f**kING LUNCH (or a more accurate observation: you are growing their lunch) with imports because your idiot president didn't do his homework before negotiating with the Chinese. Welcome to the club morons!! LOL
The Chinese.
written by Guest, April 24, 2006
Actually, the Chinese have been very beneficial to Brazil's economy. They export cheap textiles to Brazil and import an ample amount of wet blues (leather in its unfinished stage) and other raw materials from Brazil. Without the Chinese, Brazil would have to figure out how to be self sufficient in the textile industry as well. Meanwhile, WHO GIVES A FLYING f**k ABOUT SOY?
Back to school . . .
written by Guest, April 24, 2006
Oh well I guess all those Brazilians who are out of work because their own textiles are no longer competetive would agree. If that is true and it has been soooo beneficial then why did Lula impose strict controls and tariffs on many Chinese imports? You're f**king full of s**t - go back to your coloring books!

Furthermore who gives a s**t about soy - BRAZIL DOES. When the Amazon is gone you can thank soy for that. You don't seem to bright so I should probably explain how that will happen but at the same time I don't want to waste my time explaining something to a moron who probably wouldn't grasp it anyway.

"Without the Chinese, Brazil would have to figure out how to be self sufficient in the textile industry as well."
-What are you trying to say here retard? Are you admitting that Brazil is struggling to reach "textile independence"? BTW, I know everyone is all excited about the big "oil independence" in Brazil but why don't you lay off the lingo a little. Pretty soon it's going to be "mango independence" and "feijao independence".

"SAO PAULO, Brazil — For 51 of its 52 years in business, brush and comb maker Escovas Fidalga was solidly profitable. Then last year, it plunged into the red. Ask boss Manolo Miguez why, and he fingers a culprit that would be familiar to many hard-pressed American manufacturers.
"Our biggest competition is Chinese imports. ... They started slowly, but today they take up 70% of the Brazilian market," says Miguez, the company director."

The following is just one among numerous examples of the deleterious impact of Chinese parasitism. They take your raw materials, you buy their cheap, finished goods that destroy your internal textile industry. Good for you - keep it up.

Re: The Chinese.
written by Guest, April 24, 2006
"They export cheap textiles to Brazil and import an ample amount of wet blues (leather in its unfinished stage) and other raw materials from Brazil."

Guess what? When the Chinese import all of those wet blues from Brazil they take value away from the leather finishing process. And by take value away I mean not only are there less jobs for Brazilians in the finishing process but at the end of the day not as much finished leather (which is far more expensive than wet blues) is being sold. And where is all of the tanneries' and leather finishers' business going? To the people who have been importing all of Brazil's wet blues, or in other words, refer to your title numbnuts.
Re: Back to school
written by Guest, April 24, 2006
"Pretty soon it's going to be "mango independence" and "feijao independence"."


Ah-ha, charade you are; Brazil already has Mango independence dumbass.
...
written by Guest, April 24, 2006
YOU ARE A RETARD!!! Brazil really needs to stop investment in anything else, including soy and oil and worry about trying to give nearly brain-dead people like you an education. I think it already has "feijao independence" as well. God help you my son - just imagine how much you've already missed in life . . It's just whizzing right past you!
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written by Guest, April 24, 2006
Hey guys, stop it! Well, I have criticized a lot my own country here, and that has opened the spaces for some dumbasses to say s**t about Brazil.
Hey stupid guys, I have to admit, you are just plain wrong. What Brazil needs is what makes United States to work. Just free market. Well, the chinese make textiles cheaper than us, great, let's buy from them instead of making textiles here. But how about the jobs? Well, go work in some other area or, if you want to do the same thing, migrate to China, plain simple. We have other examples that this keeps unemployment level low instead of high. See Hong Kong and Singapore which were backwards places by 1950, with only primary activities and now they aren't even industrialized countries because that wave is already gone. People there had not many places to go, they lost jobs very often, their dependence on oil, textiles, agricultural products and other raw materials is nothing less than about 100%, and they have survived several oil crises and other commodities crises, while keeping low unemployment rates.

What we need here is less taxes, let the free market operate, primarily in education area, and stop doing what we are not good at. The rest is bulls**t and rhetoric of backwards countries or wannabe backwards countries and people.
I\'ve got gas
written by Guest, April 25, 2006
I bought a flex-car once...the stupid thing ran like a lawnmower on crack. Really, everybody should just learn how to ride bikes within the city and use trains or planes if they need to travel long distances.

s**t, Ethanol? If they're going to ferment sugar cane and corn why not turn them into an beverage that gets you drunk? That'd be better for everybody. Pbfff, Ethanol.
...
written by Guest, April 25, 2006
"Well, go work in some other area or, if you want to do the same thing, migrate to China, plain simple. We have other examples that this keeps unemployment level low instead of high."

Ok Mr. Keynes why don't you tell us what other sectors of the economy Brazilians are going to work in with their 6th grade educations? What is it that is keeping unemployment 'low" in Brazil? Dying to hear this. Are you an economist because you talk like you are but you write like a 19 year-old who has taken a history class in a junior college. Just migrate to China eh? What are you thinking. God help Brazil if you represent the future thinking of that country. Yeah stick to the US method and watch your ship sink right along with theirs. 3 Trillion dollar deficit and 10 billion going out every week to fight a war 8000 miles from home . . . Oh and America is something more akin to an oligarchic kleptocracy with autocratic and police state tendencies. Jesus the US example is the last to follow.

"Hey stupid guys, I have to admit, you are just plain wrong."
"What we need here is less taxes, let the free market operate, primarily in education area . . "

I am one of the posters who is just plain wrong and this is what I said that was just plain wrong.

"Brazil really needs to stop investment in anything else, including soy and oil and worry about trying to give nearly brain-dead people like you an education."

We're just plain wrong eh?" You are the poster child for education in Brazil. So go get some now and come back in 4 years.
...
written by Guest, April 25, 2006
""Hey stupid guys, I have to admit, you are just plain wrong."
"What we need here is less taxes, let the free market operate, primarily in education area . . "

I am one of the posters who is just plain wrong and this is what I said that was just plain wrong.

"Brazil really needs to stop investment in anything else, including soy and oil and worry about trying to give nearly brain-dead people like you an education."

We're just plain wrong eh?" You are the poster child for education in Brazil. So go get some now and come back in 4 years."

Didn't make much sense there, bud. Maybe you should get your other hand out of your pants and type with both hands.
Yet another retard
written by Guest, April 25, 2006
OK f**king moron - I will spell it out for you really slowly and explicitly.

He says:
You are just plain wrong - Brazil needs education ...

IN the post right before that I said Brazil just needs to forget about everything else and work on education.

SO I am just plain wrong although I suggest exactly what he suggests. I guess you can swell the ranks of f**king retards who need more education eh s**tface?
...
written by Guest, April 25, 2006
Haha, don't you see it is just a battle that can't be won? If the only way for a country to prosper is to export, and to export you also must import, so oviously someone somewhere is getting screwed. It is not about people, or about education, but about commerce, capitalism as the pursuit of happiness itself, the summun bonum. It would be funny if it wasn't ridiculous the importance of the American Dream, or perhaps the American Counter-dream, a counter-dream so insidious as to place itself in the place and seem as your original dream. Where do Americans get their audacity to talk about Brazilian social problems? With a economy 8 times the size Brazil's and a population 1/5 bigger, well would someone be as so kind to show some statistic so we could visualize it better? How about USA solves their education problem, and then we will do what we always have done, we will just copy it over, what do you say, huh? Brazil is a agricultural power house, do you suggest we design a Brazilian x86 cpu, or a Brazilian OS, or create our own GE and Lockheed-Martin? How are Americans better than the Chinese, just because the Chinese aren't Christian, or are we in debt to USA for "helping" us to run our little charade for so many decades?
...
written by Guest, April 25, 2006
Keynes works in the other hand. I sound more like Hayek.
The United States are an example of free market. But they don't do everything right. I am not defending a country, but a position. Yes, I agree, some things in the United States are f**ked up, but let's just copy what they have done good. The deficit burden is too big because they have been doing the same thing as Brazil government does: having huge ammounts of taxpayers money borrowed at some interest rates in order to get money out of the economy at one time to give it back later to the market with an added interest rate, in order to "avoid inflation and recessions". This stupid thing has cost both United States and Brazil too much. That comes from Milton Friedman and monetarist school.
About the war, I think it's yet another problem caused by superpowerful government. This is the problem with United States. Politicians have too much power to act abroad.
Talking about investment in education is beautiful, but I mean that those investments would be made if Brazil had a freer environment. The question is not about investing, but how to invest.

By the way, if you have said the same things that I said, why do you think the message was for you guys? Don't get so spooky!
...
written by Guest, April 25, 2006
... the one getting screwed is always that who does the wrong things, and those wrong things may be just because they were started wrong or because they are outdated. The latter is mostly what Brazil is doing, and that's why our country is getting so screwed.

As for the deficits and superavits in trade balance, if let to the market, they tend to be balanced overtime, with times of deficit and others of superavits, as well as the imports and exports tend to grow bigger overtime. That's what history show us. And deficits do not necessarily show that a country is doing bad, it may be just importing the trucks, the computers and the other items that will make the country richer due to internal growth, even if the trade balance deficit lasts for long time.

About copying what the United States has done good, I don't have so many hopes here. Brazil has shown a tendency to discard everything that worked in the rest of the world, at least for the last 30 years.Instead, our country has been copying failed models that have proven to be wrong elsewhere. The most prominet failed model is the welfare state imported from Europe.
Regarding: Yet another retard
written by Guest, April 25, 2006
Whoa, looks like you finally got that other hand outta your pants, huh? And let's see what the big tough guy had to say:

"SO I am just plain wrong although I suggest exactly what he suggests. I guess you can swell the ranks of f**king retards who need more education eh s**tface?"

Hey that sounds like you spelled it out nice and clear there! Yes, needlessly calling your critic names when it was you who should have been more clear in the first place. Try to write more clearly in the future and then you won't have to get called out and subsequently stoop to the 6th grade level of calling people "retards" (I can't believe there are people out there who still talk like this - it's like a time warp back to when Ace of Base was topping the charts).
Sound like a plan?
Thanks, bitch.
...
written by Guest, April 25, 2006
Just curious, were you listening to Ace of Bass the first time you blew a guy in the backseat of your daddy's volvo? Was he good to you?

"Whoa, looks like you finally got that other hand outta your pants, huh?"
And yet somehow that isn't sixth grade right bitch? LOL!
...
written by Guest, April 26, 2006
Why do Americans love to pretend they are way more uncivilized than they really are? At least Brazilians have a excuse for their eventual drug seeking excusions up the favelas and playing soccer with whomever, but even then it's mostly just talking back, atoning for the insults. But you, white man of the north, escaping from suburban NJ or CA, are you just the product of the white trash TV twilight zone, lost in the realm of the "all american" pseudo blasé pop culture? I wonder...
...
written by Guest, April 26, 2006
"Just curious, were you listening to Ace of Bass the first time you blew a guy in the backseat of your daddy's volvo? Was he good to you?"

First of all, it wasn't Ace of Bass - it was Van Halen. Secondly, it wasn't my dad's Volvo - it was your mom's Cadillac. You see where htis is going? That's right - it wasn't a blow job with a guy but actually me plowing your mom! Come to think of it, I hope you're not an angry illegitimate child. If so, backpayments are in the mail for your child support. LaughOutLoud!!!
...
written by Guest, April 26, 2006
That took you a couple of days to dream up didn't it clever little man? Yes I see where "htis" is going dips**t . . You were so excited to type that you couldn't contain yourself eh? Finally if I were your offspring I would almost certainly be dead by now as a result of inferior breeding . . . By the way, isn't that a little sixth grade for a sophisticate like yourself? "LaughOutLoud" over that?? - you must be one of the loneliest people alive . .
...
written by Guest, April 27, 2006
You two should just buy some lube and get it over with.
...
written by Guest, April 27, 2006
"That took you a couple of days to dream up didn't it clever little man?"

No it was rather spontaneous; unlike yourself, I don't spend every waking minute of my life surfing the web - which makes your other statement especially curious:

"you must be one of the loneliest people alive . . "
Do you need a friend? I WOULD suggest finding a lovely lady at www.brazilcupid.com, but for someone like you...well, I don't think there's a website where raging, child-hungry pedofiles can meet people on a personal level (or at least I hope there isn't).
smilies/smiley.gif


...
written by Guest, April 27, 2006
"You two should just buy some lube and get it over with."

You should mind your own goddamn business.
(Besides, why would we want to fulfill your sick fantasy?)
...
written by Guest, April 29, 2006
"But you, white man of the north, escaping from suburban NJ or CA, are you just the product of the white trash TV twilight zone, lost in the realm of the "all american" pseudo blasé pop culture? I wonder..."

Shouldn´t you be preparing to hold up a liqour store or something? One or two more penny store robberies and you too maybe able to possess your very own TV. However, yo mamma will probably sell it to buya nice be rock of crack! AIGHT!
...
written by Guest, April 30, 2006
I don't spend every waking minute of my life surfing the web

Could have fooled me . . .
...
written by Guest, May 01, 2006
"I don't spend every waking minute of my life surfing the web

Could have fooled me . . . "

WHoa-ho! Everybody behold the comeback master! AHAHAAHAHAHA! LOSER!
...
written by Guest, May 05, 2006
hahahahahahahaha alochal bad! even tho i drink it toooo!!! xDD
Bullwinkle
written by Guest, May 27, 2006
Brazil has lots of problems, but it is rapidly developing like many other emerging market economies around the world that have adopted free-market practices. This is a strong contrast to Venezuela, which has a lot of oil wealth but is veering away from an economy based on competitive forces. I think you will see Venezuela squander its oil wealth on kleptocracy and cronyism. If Brazil can avoid the fate of its neighbors and stay on the road toward a freer and and more competitive economy, I think that living standards will continue to improve and the country will develop into a global power. Of course there is a history of injustice and exploitation in Brazil, and that is the biggest threat to its future, but it seems to be headed in the right direction right now, despite all the problems of poverty and inequality.
Brazil
written by Guest, June 17, 2006
If the rest of the world followed Brazil's example in producing green fuels for their cars etc., pollution and the greenhouse effect would largely decrease.
Improve the silence
written by Oswaldo Moreira, April 04, 2007
To whom it may concern and others with similar negative mindset,

My friends,

The interesting point about some comments posted in this site regarding this specific and many other subjects is that they are sometimes blended with a lot of criticism and sarcasm. I fully support the right of those who want to express their opinions but I would like seeing something positive and constructive coming from them as well.

Brazilians (and by the way, EU SOU BRASILEIRO) are very opinioned type of people. We like to discuss and criticize everything from soccer to religion, to politics. However we rarely try to roll over the sleeves and get things done….why?
One would say…Oh, because it is not from my business …. that is for the government to figure out ...that is why I pay my taxes for…etc.

So, here goes my two cents piece of advice to all of us….IF YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO FIX IT, DON’T BREAK IT….IF YOU DON’T KNOW IF IT IS TRUE, DON’T SPREAD IT OUT….IF YOU DON’T WANT TO BE INVOLVED, DON’T CRITICIZE… TRY TO SEE THE POSITIVE SIDE OF THE THINGS AND LOOK THE PROBLEM FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF WHOM IS TRYING TO FIND A SOLUTION, …and by last but certainly not the least, IF YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF THE DISCUSSION, CONSIDER AWARDING ALL OF US WITH YOUR SILENCE.

By the way, if you really stand behind your opinions, don’t fear about disclosing your name.

Don’t take it personal … because that is not my intention. That is a cultural problem we (Brazilians in general) must solve if we really want other approaching us as a serious society.

If we want a better country … try to ask yourself what sincerely you have done for that…. I DO IT ALL THE TIME.

My best regards,

Oswaldo Moreira

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