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Contrary to Myth, Brazil Is Ashamed of Being Mestizo PDF Print E-mail
2007 - January 2007
Written by Mark Wells   
Monday, 22 January 2007 10:48

Mestiço by Brazilian painter Cândido Portinari In my last essay I cited João Vargas's term "the hyperconsciousness of race" to describe how racial denial and consciousness can occur simultaneously. Pedagogue Eliane Cavalleiro cites several examples of how values attached to race affect the daily interactions of Brazilian children.

For example, two children, one black, the other white, participate in a game in which they tease each other about which of them smells badly. As the game goes back and forth, the white child plays a "trump card" by saying, "I don't stink, I am white. You're the one who's black!!" At this point, the black child is shocked into silence (1).

As the accepted belief is that black people have a natural, unpleasant smell, the white child continues on her way secured in her whiteness and superiority, while the black child has been traumatized.

Another black child in Cavalleiro's research told a teacher that she didn't want to be black but wanted to be like Angélica (2) because "she is pretty" (3).

Then there is the story of the blond grandmother who found her grandchild in the bathtub vigorously scrubbing her skin with soap and water. When the grandmother asked why, the child replied, "I don't want to have the color of my father. I want to be like my mother". Both the grandmother and the mother of the child were white women with blond hair while the father of the child was black (4).

Examples such as these are common occurrences in Brazil and affect children, as well as adults, of African descent. Like examples I provided in my previous essay, the example of the mixed-race child provides more evidence to support my view that whether one has dark brown skin or some intermediary color between black and white (or better, brown and beige, peach and pink) the stigma of not being white can affect all who come short of the white ideal.
 
As I wrote in my previous essay, there is always a dispute about how to categorize Brazil's non-whites. There have been hundreds of studies that show that Brazil's whites and non-whites don't necessarily see intermediary colors between the black and white extremes as black as it happens in the US.

While on the surface, this certainly does appear to be true, it is necessary to look beneath the surface and between the lines to investigate the implications of such racial ideologies. My argument here is that while common, everyday Brazilians subscribe more to grades of color rather than race, white Brazilian elites or the middle and upper classes do indeed see things in terms of black and white.

In fact, I have seen enough examples that suggest that average Brazilians also adhere to such classifications if they are challenged. As whiteness is positioned at the top of the racial hierarchy and embodies the status that many desire, in order for a person to perceive themselves as white, others must be defined as non-white.

In this sense, it does not matter whether that person perceives him or herself as black, mixed race or Asian. With whiteness being the racial paradigm, it is fitting to understand the words of Muniz Sodré who tells us that "for such a paradigm, there is only white and the others...race is always the other" (5).

With the rise of scientific racism, it was the European who defined himself as white and superior while others were black or Oriental and thus inferior. Taking another example from Sodré, one would not classify a person as a mestiço if they were descended from Italians and French but would be classified as such if they descended from Nigerians and French (6).

To further elaborate on this point, I would like to consider an essay called "Whiteness as Property" by Cheryl Harris. Harris found "reputational interest in being regarded as white as a thing of significant value", a "form of status property"(7). Harris further states that:
 

"The concept of whiteness was premised on white supremacy rather than mere difference. "White" was defined and constructed in ways that increased its value by reinforcing its exclusivity. Indeed, just as whiteness as property embraced the right to exclude, whiteness as a theoretical construct evolved for the very purpose of racial exclusion. Thus, the concept of whiteness is built on both exclusion and racial subjugation." (8)
 
Keeping this definition of whiteness in mind, the Brazilian situation will be analyzed according to this definition in order to ascertain whether the power structure, race relations and racial representation conform to such a definition.

As I wrote in a previous essay, only 12 members of Brazil's 513 member Congress are black while only two of 81 senators are of African ancestry. And as it is well known among those who follow Brazilian social inequality, afrodescendentes earn approximately half the income of Brazilian whites, get less education and die younger.

Truth be told, Brazilians of color significantly lag behind those identified as white in nearly every category that is used to determine quality of life and social inequality (9), but here I would like to focus on racial representation and how it conforms to Harris's "whiteness as property" model.
 
Considering the lengths people go to differentiate between pretos and pardos, I have taken account of the way that Rede Globo portrays Brazilian people on its programming and have come to the conclusion that it doesn't seem to matter whether one is preto or pardo: they are both excluded.

This trend not only applies to Brazilian television, but is also blatantly apparent when one studies Brazil's mainstream print media. In my own research, I came across some very disturbing statistics. When I looked at the women's monthly magazine Marie Claire, I found that between February 2001 and October 2004, actress Taís Araújo (issue #158, May 2004) was the only woman with clearly African features that appeared on the magazine's cover.

Continuing my research, I also discovered that in 101 issues (August, 1996 to December 2004) of the magazine Corpo a Corpo, Araújo was again the only woman of clearly African descent. I stress here that there may have been more than a few women appearing on these covers that can count some African ancestry in their genetic make-up, but following Brazil's racial criteria of appearance over ancestry, Araújo would be the only black woman that graced the covers.
 
Following this same line of research, I decided to challenge the well-known Brazilian myth of the mulata as the national symbol of Brazilian beauty and most desirable sex partner for both Brazilian men and foreigners.

Jorge Amado's classic novels have consistently implied that the only thing that the Brazilian mulata has going for her is her beauty and her bedroom performances.

As this ideal is so thoroughly ingrained in Brazilian culture, surely the sex appeal of the so-called mulata would earn such recognition in Brazil's print media. The results paint a different picture.

Every year the magazine Isto É Gente publishes its "25 Most Sexy" men and women issue proclaiming Brazil's most sexy men and women in the entertainment field. Of the 200 people selected as "most sexy" over a four year period between the years 2002 and 2005, only 12 black men and women were voted into this select group. Of these 12, singer Preta Gil, daughter of musician and Minister of Culture Gilberto Gil, may be the one that raises the most eye brows when considering who is black in this group.

While there are those who fall into the category of the much celebrated morena/moreno category, many of the white Brazilians on the list represent a whiteness that would not be out of place in Europe. Perhaps they represent the "authentic whiteness" that the Portuguese could not quite provide (10).
 
In challenging this myth of the mulata, I also discovered that, in the blueprint magazine for the standard of female sensuality, beauty and sexuality, Playboy Brasil, of 94 issues from January of 1999 to October 2006, only one light-skinned mulata (Janaína dos Santos, October 2002) appeared on the cover of the Brazilian version of Playboy.

Some may also consider Mônica Carvalho (July 2001), but in the Brazilian context, she wouldn't count because, although her mother is black, phenotype takes precedence over ancestry in Brazil and she is most likely accepted as a branca de terra, a term that signifies a person who looks mostly white but is known to have black ancestors or some physical feature that is associated with blackness.

If the mulata is the symbol of female sexuality, one wouldn't know it by looking at the covers of Playboy magazine. Thus, judging Brazil by its most widely circulating magazine covers, the pride of mestiçagem has no place in this white ideal except as a necessary sacrifice on the way to official whiteness.
 
Mestiçagem: A Source of Pride or Transition into Whiteness?
 
While whiteness may be thought of in terms of skin color, as a representation of power, it is psychological consciousness. It represents the modern while everything else is seen as the past or primitive.

While the white Brazilian may proclaim himself to be proud of his racial mixture while in Brazil or in the presence of those who simply cannot pass for white, when he goes overseas, he cannot hide his true sentiments on the issue.

With Portugal's improved position as part of the European Union, Brazilian immigration has continued to increase to the former mother country. But Portugal is indeed part of Europe and racial mixture is not seen as a source of pride, neither in the real sense nor in the Gilberto Freyre "transition to whiteness" sense. According to Igor José de Renó Machado:
 
"In the reconstruction of imperial thought in Portugal there was no veiled intention to insert the idea of whitening in the racial classification system. This is due to the fact that racism is a given reality in the premises of the system which is clearly antimiscegenation." (11)
 
This last paragraph is important to understand because while racial mixture was deemed necessary to improve Brazil's racial portrait, thus erasing the "stain" of Africa (as well as native) that is prominent in the physical attributes of a large percentage of the Brazilian population, in Portugal, an acknowledged white country, this mixture is not necessary and not celebrated.

Gilberto Freyre (among others) coyly constructed and celebrated the idea of racial mixture as a prelude to the ultimate goal, a gradual process of whitening. This new celebration of mestiçagem worked to the advantage of the Brazilian elites who were eager to be accepted on the global stage as a white country.

But in Portugal, mestiçagem is a disadvantage to the Brazilian who has hopes of being accepted as white in Europe. Machado clarifies this point further when he states that:
 
"On the one hand, there is the Portuguese Lusophony order, which is openly hierarchical and considers Brazil as Mestizo, in an intermediary place between Black and White. On the other, there is the racial order in which Brazilians in Brazil are classed and which privileges the Mestizo category to the degree that it serves the concept of "Whitening"...(12)
 
Here Machado tells us that the Brazilian of mixed descent is hailed as being better than the "pure" afrodescendente, but only because they represent a closer step to the ideal of whiteness. In a genetic, and presumably phenotypic sense, the mestiço is only valuable as a step away from the blackness that the Brazilian is ashamed of.

In general terms, the mestiço is still seen as degenerate. While many Brazilians are quick to proclaim their whiteness, lurking in the shadows of consciousness, there is a fear that this "Brazilian whiteness" is not quite enough. These fears become reality in Portugal. Again, citing Machado:
 
"The clash between the two orders, both of which were legitimized by the same theory (created by Gilberto Freyre) arose from the fact that White Brazilians are seen as Mestizos in Portugal, suffering a lower status along with non-White Brazilians. The opposite happens with non-White Brazilians because they have a higher status than in Brazil, and they use this to justify their position in disputes between Brazilians.... Whitening does not exist in Portugal; once Mestizo, always Mestizo. In Brazil, miscegenation is the other face of a racial ideology of Whitening." (13)
 
Thus, in Portugal, the white Brazilian who in Brazil proclaims that "we are all mestiços", does not want to be recognized as such when he comes face to face with "true" whiteness. All the rhetoric about "we're all the same", and "I have black blood, too", goes out the window when he realizes that he is not accepted as white.

Suddenly, the white Brazilian who couldn't tell who was black or white in Brazil becomes very conscious of race when his own whiteness is brought into question or outright rejected. I can imagine his reaction: "No, no...I'm not mixed, I'm white!! That Brazilian over there, he's BLACK!!" Machado brings light to this scenario when he explains that:
 
"The conflict between the two different racial orders is the cause of the greater number of disputes of Brazilians among themselves and with the Portuguese. While in Brazil, miscegenation is an ambiguous strategy that makes racial classifications more flexible and disguises deep racism, in Portugal there is no ambiguity whatsoever: the racial order might be seen as Mestizo for the populations of the ex-colonies, but inside the Portuguese metropolis, you are either White or not.

"In the Portuguese order, Brazilians are Mestizos, but below White Portuguese and above Blacks and Africans. The problem is that the White Brazilian immigrants do not see themselves in this order and do not align themselves in the supposed racial Brazilian democracy with Blacks of their own proper nationality. But in Portugal, Brazilian Mestizos and Blacks have a chance to be "equal" to Brazilian Whites and more distant from African Blacks, the most discriminated class (emphasis mine). (14)
 
Thus, the white Brazilian who claims to disagree with the bi-polar, black/white racial model is ready to conform to it as long as he can be on the "winning team". If he truly accepted the idea that all Brazilians are mestiços (in the social, as well as, the genetic sense) he wouldn't voice such violent rejection of the established racial order in Portugal. He would see himself and his more obviously afrodescendente countryman as brothers.

On the other hand, the afrodescendente finally has his chance to be on equal footing with his whiter Brazilian brother as they are both seen as mestiços in the former colonizing country. Again, if mestiçagem was the source of pride that it is proclaimed to be, why wouldn't the "white Brazilian" accept his position in the Portuguese racial hierarchy?
 
While inter-racial relations are proclaimed to be proof of a "racial democracy", there appear to be cracks in the armor of defense that expose themselves when closely scrutinized.

For instance, Laura Moutinho (15), in her investigation of inter-racial relationships in middle-class Rio de Janeiro, finds that there is often times an unspoken discomfort in white middle-class environments when a white male or female introduces their black partner into their social circles.

The stares and sudden disassociations put the black partner on notice that their relationship is not as accepted as Brazilian society would have one believe. One guy interviewed by Moutinho expresses the opinion that "patricinhas" (16) of Rio would not consider going out with a black guy if a white guy was available (17).
 
During twenty months of ethnographic research in Rio, Alexander Edmonds was told by various informants that they would have "more difficulty dating a black man than a white man of an inferior social class" implying that race influences one's mate selection more than class within middle-class Carioca social cliques (18).

Kabengele Munanga, professor of anthropology at Universidade de São Paulo acknowledges the stares his family attracts in public places when he appears with his white wife, mulato children and black children from a previous marriage (19).
 
The historic reality of interracial relations in Brazil is another facet of social and racial inequality. Comparing official statistics from 1960 to 1991, interracial marriages have increased from 12.6% in 1960 to 23.1% in 1991 (20).

What this means is that the majority of miscegenation that occurred in Brazil over the centuries is due to mainly two factors. 1) White male sexual exploitation of black and Indian women and, 2) The Afro-Brazilian obsession with whitening the skin color of their descendents. In reality, the overwhelming majority of miscegenation has occurred among the lower classes and outside the confines of marriage.
 
The sexual exploitation of black women is yet another weapon of domination and exploitation of white supremacy in Brazil. While many Brazilian historians would like to sugarcoat the past, the simple truth is that miscegenation is the result of the widespread rape of black and Indian women.

Thus it is utterly shocking, repugnantly chauvinistic and lacking of any kind of regard for human decency to read the words of an Argentine found in the Brazzil forum section. The author is apparently trying to argue why the Portuguese were less racist than the British during the slavery eras in the US and Brazil:
 
"....the Portuguese whites simply fucked more with their slaves than the U.S. whites. Even in such a case, they were less racist than the US. whites because they showed less repugnance to fuck with black females. To avoid fuck with blacks is a symbol of racism, a symbol of repugnance to other races. I' m not saying I feel repugnance about fucking with blacks, do not misunderstand me, I only say that if a white man does accept less to fuck with a black woman, surely it is because he feel repugnance to that race, or at least more repugnance than a white that fucks as much black woman as he can." (21)
 
Justifying the rape of black women as a means of legitimizing a "racial democracy" is not only sick, it is subhuman, lacking in any sort of critical thinking and typical of the patriarchal, Western male's view of women. There is nothing democratic about rape. It is a means of exerting power and dominance over another human being. This has nothing to do with proving a lack of racism. In fact, it is another example of racism and "racial democracy" coming together.

Allow me to also point out the fact that men have been known to have sexual relations with not only women, but other men, children and even animals. Is this some proof of sexual attraction or a serious deprivation of human, as well as moral consciousness?

Rape during wars or colonization is nothing new. The treatment of women of color in pre-Republic Brazil can be legitimately compared to that of women of colonized countries by the male members of the colonizing country.

Whether one is to speak of the rape of Algerian women by French men during colonization, or Americans in Vietnam, rape is a means of one group displaying and maintaining dominance over another group (22). It is also based on "traditional views of women as property and often as sexual objects"(23).

Women may also be targets of rape because they are members of racial, ethnic or religious groups (24), confined to simple roles of reproductive organs in order to bear children of the enemy (25). Let us keep this in mind when we consider Brazil's population of mestiços.
 
Footnotes

1. Cavalleiro, Eliane. Do Silêncio do Lar ao Silêncio Escolar: Racismo, preconceito e discriminação na educação infantil. 2nd Printing. Editora Contexto. São Paulo. 2003.

2. Angélica Ksyvickis, a popular blonde who has been host of several children's variety programs on television networks TV Manchete, SBT and Rede Globo. She currently hosts the Rede Globo Saturday morning variety show Estrelas. She is also the wife of popular TV show host Luciano Huck.

3. Cavalleiro, Eliane. Do Silêncio do Lar ao Silêncio Escolar: Racismo, preconceito e discriminação na educação infantil. 2nd Printing. Editora Contexto. São Paulo. 2003.

4. Faustino, Oswaldo. "Consciência Negra começa cedo". Raça Brasil. Issue 80. November 2004. http://www2.uol.com.br/simbolo/raca/080/materia5a_80.htm

5. Sodré, Muniz. Claros e Escuros: Identidade, povo e mídia no Brasil. Editora Vozes. Editora Vozes. Petrópolis. 1999

6. Ibid

7. Harris, Cheryl. "Whiteness as Property". Harvard Law Review, Vol. 106, No. 8, June 1993.

8. Ibid

9. There are literally hundreds of studies that have documented the depths of social inequality in Brazil according to race (see for example, Edward Telles, 2004, Jacques d'Adesky, 2001, Elisa Larkin Nascimento, 2003, Michael Hanchard, 1999, Rebecca Reichmann, 1999)

10. Souza, Maria Adélia Aparecida de. "Milton por Maria Adélia" in Souza, Maria Adélia Aparecida de (editor). O mundo do cidadão. Um cidadão do mundo. Hucitec, 1996. Nossa Casa website. Available online April 23, 2004. http://nossacasa.net/dire/texto.asp?texto=68l

11. Machado, Igor José de Renó. "Brazilian Immigration and the Reconstruction of Racial Hierarchies of the Portuguese Empire". Vibrant: Virtual Brazilian Anthropology. Volume 1. Número 1/2 Janeiro a Dezembro de 2004

12. Ibid

13. Ibid

14. Ibid

15. Moutinho, Laura. "Zonas de sombra e silêncio". Revista Democracia Viva (online). IBASE-online - No 6, Rio de Janeiro, January 30, 2004. http://www.ibase.br/pubibase/cgi/cgilua.exe/sys/start.htm?infoid=546&sid=140

16. Term somewhat equivalent to the American "Valley girl". The 1995 film Clueless starring actress Alicia Silverstone is a good example. The movie was also translated as As Patricinhas de Beverly Hills for its Brazilian film release.

17. Moutinho, Laura. Zonas de sombra e silêncio. Revista Democracia Viva (online). IBASE-online - No. 19, Rio de Janeiro, January 30, 2004. http://www.ibase.br/pubibase/cgi/cgilua.exe/sys/start.htm?infoid=546&sid=140

18. Edmonds, Alexander. "No Universo da Beleza: Notas de Campo sobre Cirurgia Plástica no Rio de Janeiro," in M. Goldenberg (ed). Nu & Vestido: dez antropólogos revelam a cultura do corpo carioca. Rio de Janeiro: Record, 2002

19. Estudos Avançados. "A difícil tarefa de definir quem é negro no Brasil": Entrevista de Kabengele Munanga". Estudos Avançados. 18 (50), 2004. http://www.scielo.br/pdf/ea/v18n50/a05v1850.pdf

20. Censo Brasileiro de 1991 and IBGE Censo Demográfico (1960) as cited in Edward Telles's Racismo à brasileira, Rio de Janeiro, Lumará. 2003. I would also like to consider the findings of Luisa Farah Schwartzman who suggested in her essay "Does Money Whiten? Educational Mobility of Parents and Racial Classification of Children in Brazil", interracial marriage statistics, like Brazilian color/race statistics, cannot be taken as 100% accurate. Brazilians often classify themselves and their spouses according to their own perceptions of "race" and color. Research has shown that two Brazilians of African descent may classify themselves in two different "racial"/color categories depending on which partner has lighter skin color, straighter hair, etc. Thus, if two "pardos" are classified as a "branco/parda" couple, it would affect intermarriage statistics.

21. Diaz, Pablo. "A Response to Mark Wells." Brazzil. Forum. http://www.brazzilrace.com/viewtopic.php?t=6

22. Hoglund, Dr. Anna T. "Gender and War". Whydah: Information and Policy Magazine. Volume 11, Nos. 1 & 2. January - June 2002. ISSN 1015-4957. http://www.aasciences.org/whydah/feature3.htm

23. Amnesty International USA. "Stop Violence Against Women: Rape as a Tool of War". http://www.amnestyusa.org/stopviolence/factsheets/rapeinwartime.html

24. Ibid

25. Zajovic, Stasa. "The political uses of religion, culture and ethnicity". Women Against Fundamentalisms. Journal number 7. 1995. http://waf.gn.apc.org/journal7p13.htm
 
This is part six of a multi-piece article.
 
Mark Wells holds a bachelor's degree in Anthropology from the University of Michigan-Dearborn and is currently working on a Master's Degree in Social Justice at Marygrove College in Detroit, Michigan. He can be reached at quilombhoje72@yahoo.

© 2007 Mark Wells



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Comments (156)Add Comment
Oh no!
written by The American Historian, January 23, 2007
Oh no Mark, you are about to really get ripped to pieces. Duck everybody......
Mark Wells is trying to fool us
written by A brazilian, January 23, 2007
Taking a closer look at your "footnotes", from this article and others, we can carefully notice that these "sources" are no more than like-minded people, i.e., people interested in implementing an anglo-saxon mentality in Brazil. These aren't data found by chance, by neutral people, or by something undeniably visible. But instead it is a carefully crafted line of reasoning produced to support an existing agenda, the agenda of groups who see Brazil as an anomaly in a soon-to-be-american world.

Extensive use of rethoric for fooling the reader in thinking this is careful and deep analylsis, made up facts, and agenda promotion, nothing more. Oh yes, and you love to cite other countries, don't you? Especially some with some mentality similar to the anglo-saxon one. What Europe has anything to do with Brazil of today? If you use their mentality as guidance than you will see racism everywhere!

Any brazilian would quickly tell you that Portugal means zero to the reality of Brazil today. Nobody cares. Europeans are assumed to be racist, nobody would think otherwise of the portuguese, or of any other people from that continent.

Let's start from the beginning. Some little stories told by you, willing to prove a point of course, of some hipothetical situations people, supposedly, would like to be different. Have you ever searched for other cases? I ask because where I am from people that are too white (the color of the background of this forum) often feel embarassed about it. Whiteness definetely is not a goal, especially if it is the "american white" standard of women with flat asses and less curves.

I have a relative that wouldn't use shorts because he was too white and would feel embarassed about it, or at least he used to be that way a long time ago (he probably is grown up now, don't care about such things anymore). Another case was one of the girlfriends I had, that despite of being blonde with blue eyes, she would tell me how her friend, a morena, was pretty and how she had a great body and all.

Your little stories are no more than devices to shock the readers, a kind of "I am going to tell the ugly truth now". Did the above stories shocked anyone? I am sure any brazilian can come up with more.

The bottomline is that whiteness is not a symbol of beauty or of goal in life.

Then you go about "scientific racism", that among other things were practiced in the US too under the name of "eugenics" and in the Europe led to what we saw in the WWII. What does it have to do with Brazil!? Even if that's correct, the brazilian elites worried about that, which seems plausible since by the end of the 19th (oh yes, I know you like to use the 19th century in you dirty stories) Brazil was no more than a big farm, how this relates to the supposed "racial problem" in Brazil?

So you are complaining that the elites purposefully blurred the lines between races? That we now can't clearly classify this or that in the same than the US? I say this is a gift, not something to be frowned upon. This is decisive in the creation of a genuine brazilian identity, in opposition to an european one or an african one.

Besides, in your logic there's a flaw, if the brazilians elites worried about Portugal and what Europe in general thought, wouldn't "mixing the races" do the exact opposite than what they intended. I mean, instead of "whitening" they would "blacken" everyone up and therefore, be classified as black by the Europeans? If they were really worried about that shouldn't they take measures to prevent mixing and maintain a well defined structure in society, the same way it was done in the US?

Do you realize that this argument of yours is simply illogical?


Continue...
Mestizo is the future, you like it or not
written by A brazilian, January 23, 2007
Then you go all the way to tell the "sad moment of truth" of the brazilian in Portugal. Once again, it could be the US, it makes no differece. What happens here is just the author trying to apply his vision to Brazil. If he cited the US it would be too obvious, so he decided to use Portugal, that probably he thought it would be closer to Brazil and brazilians could relate to it.

Brazilian immigration has continued to increase to the former mother country


"Mother country" !? Do you know how many jokes we have about portuguese? Everyone blames them for our problems (although this is ridiculous and unjustified, Brazil has been a free country for hundreds of years) I am just pointing this out for the foreigner read not to think Brazil and Portugal are very close countries. The only difference that makes Portugal closer than, let's say, Norway is that Portugal is part of the brazilian history, but the culture is completely different.

Again, if mestiçagem was the source of pride that it is proclaimed to be, why wouldn't the "white Brazilian" accept his position in the Portuguese racial hierarchy?


What!? Any racial hierarchy is stupid! What nonsense is that? I wouldn't accept anything of the kind in any country, not even the US, nor should any brazilian. So you accept to be a sub-race in the US? Good luck with that, but I live in Brazil.

All the rhetoric about "we're all the same", and "I have black blood, too", goes out the window when he realizes that he is not accepted as white.


No, my friend. All bigotry either from americans or europeans isn't accepted, just that. If you are used to give you place in the bus for whites in the US, it's your problem, but in Brazil we don't need to lower our heads, blacks, whites or mestizos!

Finally, you attack "interracial" (what an ugly word) relationships. Do you know what "patricinha" means? It's a kind of rich and stupid girl, that wear very expensive clothes and walk only with rich people, everything paid by "dad". This kind of people is NOT representative of a country with millions of poors!! They will treat ANYONE that's not as rich as they are, that doensn't travel to all places in the world like they do, that doesn't have a great car, like s**t!

Boy, this is like studying the american society by looking at the top 2% of the pyramid, and take conclusions about everything based on that! Do you think that will be accurate!

Have you ever thought about learning something from Brazil instead of attacking it? What you are saying in these articles is simply the vision of an anglo-saxon, and his effort to force the anglo-saxon mentality upon Brazil. It's a sequence of senseless things of someone that never lived in here. So sopa operas, your "studies" from other activists, and other little stories from activists form any evidence we can trust, other than your bias you were set to believe since the beginning?

Brazil is centuries ahead of the US in terms of race. I hope someone Google this line 150 year from now. They will read your nonsense and laugh, all those future mestizos living in a globalized world. No more lines between races, THIS IS THE FUTURE.
Any Brazilian respond
written by Lyle Davis, January 23, 2007
Is there any "white" Brazilian poster that can say they are NOT mixed with African or Indian blood? I don't understand why these Brazilians attack these articles so vociferously. No matter what you look like on the outside, your genes tell the story and eventually your worst nightmare will come to pass. You will be the grandparent of a non-European looking child.
Para Lyle
written by A brazilian, January 23, 2007
Here comes another gringo talking about genes. Are you aware that there's no pure anything? Are you aware that in anyone's blood, and I really mean anyone, it will be found traces of many peoples across the history!? Simply because populations and individuals migrated all the time due to many factors.

What do you mean by that? Do you believe that there are actually "pure white Aryans" around!? Do you believe in faery tales too? These american blacks are the worst Nazis there is. They repeat the same story as those KKK people!! It's not a surprise that the same dysfunctional society generated both kinds of abominations, it's like a germ and the antibody.

You really deserve each other.
...
written by bo, January 23, 2007
Mark Wells is trying to fool us
written by A brazilian, 2007-01-22 21:53:25




Can you explain to ALL of us, how your grammar, syntax, spelling, and vocabulary have improved dramatically from numerous previous posts???

Go ahead, you guys, or gals, ignore this post, as you did the other!

Folks, A Brazilian and E Harmony are either the same person, or numerous people posting under the same name that are making posts that they figure will "get a rise" out of some in an attempt to keep, or gain, traffic to this site.
Article
written by GTY, January 23, 2007
While I agree that Brazil is as racist a country as racists as any other, the title of the article using the word "Ashamed" is just to inflame this blog and shows that Wells is a racist himself. The same tactics are used by the American Nazi Party and their assorted nut jobs here in the US and other right wing groups throughout the world. They claim to be intellectuals, but their arguments are based in myth and promote their own political agenda. I would encourage the masters of this page to review Wells postings and find them for what they are, racists dribble that should not be posted to help promote his hateful agenda. Give us better than that. Don't try arguing with Wells, his arguments are created among his buddies in barns and cellars through out America, there is no changing his ideology of hate. I would however ask him to provide proof that he is actually a graduate of the university he claims in the footnotes. my guess is that he is a drop out from some backwoods Southern highschool where he chased farm animals for his sexual pleasure and was beat to s**t by his drunken father.
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written by Luca, Rome, January 23, 2007
"Racial consciousness" what an horrible world
There's only one human race.
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written by O Gringo Negro fala, January 23, 2007
I'd just like to congratulate Mr. Wells for unmasking the self-delusions white Brasilians have about the racial dynamics in Brazil. I have been following his work for several years since I first read an article of his destroying the vaunted Janer Cristaldo, he of the Ph.D from the Sorbonne, journalist, lawyer, philospher, the author of several vile screeds regarding the racialization processes of Brazilian society, e.g.,"The Mulatto is Proof Brazil has no Racism", and whose writing inevitably upholds the privileges and entitlements of white elites all over this planet. And then there is the Cristaldo acolyte, the equally ridiculous John Fitzpatrick, ex-patriot Scottish, bon vivant chronicler of Paulista highlife, who is forever prattling on about that of which he knoweth not, as in the last article printed regarding Darfur, and Brazil's relations with Africa. These contributors, who are clearly the most erudite defenders of the "myth of racial democracy" in this magazine, have yet to provide the readership with any sort of reposte to Mr. Wells. The other critical responses posted by the readership are really infantile gasps of recognition of itself in the face of the picture of the racism of the white, Brazilian elites, so admirably painted by Mr. Wells. After all, this readership is composed of fluent Enlgish speaking and writing persons, who from appearances are Brasilians who are living, or have lived abroad. By definition this excludes probably 99.9% of the Brazilian population who are visibly Afro descended.

These contemporary defenders of the myth of racial democracy remind me of white Americans of the 1950's, who defended segregation. They articulate the same arguments of white Southerner's in particular, who railed against the civil rights movement here in the U.S.. I am continually amazed that these Brazilian supporters of Brazilian apartheid mouth these antiquated and universally disgarded arguments as if they have some significance simply because they are proferred in the allegedly "unique" context of Brazil. The arguments were flawed then, and they're stil flawed, but now are clearly simplistic and completely transparent, at least to those who pay attention to such matters.

Mr. Wells does pay attention. Brazilians who truly desire to understand the racial dynamics of that country ought pay attention. If you wish to reject the portrait as painted by Mr. Wells because it emanates from a U.S. citizen, take the time to read the works of Brazilian authors and academics cited in the footnotes. However, I would suggest that the autheticity of what Mr. Wells concludes is equally anchored on the experience of being Afro-descended, which has the same poltical, economic and social conseequences all over the Western Hemisphere, to wit: a location specific variation on the same theme. BTW, a shout out to The American Historian.... I feel you.
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written by Luca, Rome, January 23, 2007
Racial labelling is evil. Racist people do that and it is absurd that we create human groups using the same evil criteria supposedly to fight that very same evil criteria! It’s both insane and consistent with race obsessessed cultures.

The idea of racial pride is the most Nazi i.e. disgusting thing I can think of and fostering it because of a very good cause (i.e. fighting discrimination against people of color) is like building a paradise with the devil’s tools.

A people, a nation should be proud of their cutural-historical traditions which they share with other people from the same cultural and historical background *regardless* of the fact that they (might) also share the same physical appereances! Skin pigmentation is a biological thing and anyone who use it to create human groups according not to positive things like laguage, culture but employing a racial/biological criteria is racist and a humanity-divider.

It is 100% good to promote, for example, the great cultural and historical tradition of Brazilian people of African descent (whatever their culture) which the “white man" from Italy who’s writing this loves, but not because they are black but because they went through the same historical/cultural processes.

Until there’ll be fools around who talk and promote pigmentation-based pride the world will be always divided! Let’s divide the world beteween racists and non racists.

Then I do agree that we should all fight discrimination against people of color but we should do it all together not dividing ourself in black whites and other 10000 different shades...with the very same criteria used by racists!

So I agree that quotas are necessary because racist people discriminate people of color thus preventing them to access education and work or create a better life but let's not racialize society with studid things like white or black pride, whereas I support those who support the afrobrazilian traditions...of all colours.


ERRATA CORRIGE
written by Luca, Rome, January 23, 2007
*Errata corrige*

It is 100% good to promote, for example, the great cultural and historical tradition of Brazilian people of African descent (WHATEVER THEIR SKIN COLOR / NOT: whatever their culture)
The gringo negro wrote a lot but said nothing
written by A brazilian, January 23, 2007
Just repeated the same old Civil Rights talk, comparing Brazil to that time in the US, ignoring there's no segregation in Brazil and never was.

Brazil, racially speaking, is what the US will be in a few centuries of immigrant influx and mixing. There's no way back now.
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written by Luca, Rome, January 23, 2007
The fact that Brazil is a more racially mixed country does not mean it is more or less racist than the US!
I would just say that in Brazil people of different shades are more united from a cultural point of view than whites and blacks in the US (and it's getting worse every year in the US) but on the other hand, "Black" Brazilians fare a lot worse than US blacks from a social/economical point of view (and things don't seem to change much...).
But Brazilian whites are very racist too, those who deny it are liars. I know some stupid people from Ipanema/Leblon or Southern Brazil who're modern day nazis.

G magazine
written by P., Europe, January 23, 2007
Quite curiously "G magazine" has featured disproportionately many Black male models on his cover and in the inner layouts...
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written by Bienchido, January 23, 2007
This past Christmas I gave my two Brazilian (Bahian) stepdaughters (who are both mestizo/pardo), dolls, one a white-skinned doll and one a darker-skinned doll. The girl who got the darker-skinned doll was dissapointed, and she said her doll was "uglier" than the white-skinned doll, despite the fact the her skin color almostsmatches the dark-skinned doll and the vast majority of people in her community are black, mestizo or pardo. Her words and dissapointment spoke volumes about how whiteness is valued in Brazilian media and society, and that the message is learned very early in life.
Bienchido
written by A brazilian, January 23, 2007
Using the same logic, what does the situation I wrote earlier about a blonde ex-girlfriend of mine telling how her morena friend was pretty tell about racism?
Luca
written by A brazilian, January 23, 2007
But Brazilian whites are very racist too, those who deny it are liars. I know some stupid people from Ipanema/Leblon or Southern Brazil who're modern day nazis.


That's like saying that french people are a*****es because you knew a couple of unpleasant people once you were in Paris. Do you realize how ridiculous would such conclusion be?

Brazil is not racist, but nothing prevents a few intellectual midgets from being so.
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written by Bribetaker, January 23, 2007
Mr. GTY is so right!
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written by jabmalassie, January 23, 2007
Here we go again.
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written by get a life ppl, January 23, 2007
A people, a nation should be proud of their cutural-historical traditions which they share with other people from the same cultural and historical background *regardless* of the fact that they (might) also share the same physical appereances! Skin pigmentation is a biological thing and anyone who use it to create human groups according not to positive things like laguage, culture but employing a racial/biological criteria is racist and a humanity-divider.

It is 100% good to promote, for example, the great cultural and historical tradition of Brazilian people of African descent (whatever their culture) which the “white man" from Italy who’s writing this loves, but not because they are black but because they went through the same historical/cultural processes


I am completely sorry but I have a lot more to do do than reading all the nonsense written in this Brazzil ridiculous site....

Luca você é uma coisa rifícula demais para existir.... Are you Brazilian? because if you were a foreigner than I could understand just a little all absurd you have been written... BTW, I am a devil white Brazilian hahahah.

Shortly, the African culture is just simply THE official culture of Brazil, the most celebrated, loved, institutionalized etc etc vide the African Culture Museum in São Paulo, samba, axé, capoeira, pagode, all the black artists in Brazil... definetely people GET A LIFE ALREADY!!! , get something to do with your lives! : p
Bark Well or Mark Fell or whatever the hell is your name!
written by Costinha, January 24, 2007
What is your agenda? I'm not being rude - you really are stupid!

This is part six of a messed-up piece article.


Bark Well holds a bachelor's degree in Bull$hittology from the University of Michigan-Queerborn and is currently working on a Master's Abation in Social Injustice at Marydrove Colleague in Detroit, Michigan. He can be bleached at quilomanjaro24@yahoo.


© 2007 Bark Well or Mark Fell or wathever
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written by Costinha, January 24, 2007
Mr. GTY is so white!

PS. GTY = Great Turd Yankee
Bienchido Maricon
written by Costinha, January 24, 2007
I know you have standards. I know you have ambitions. I know you’re a$$hole bulges outside of your Richard Simmons brand hot pants like a freakish Camel Toe!


hehehe
The American Historian
written by Costinha, January 24, 2007
I used to think that you were an insufferable bore, but now I have a much lower opinion of you... The only difference between you and a bucket of $hit is the bucket.

hehehe
Gringo Negro Gringo Negro Gringo Negro Gringo Negro
written by Costinha, January 24, 2007

Did you fail an urine test?
From Singapore
written by G. Chell, January 24, 2007
Based on economic performance white skinned Brazilians are faring much more poorly than the dark skinned orientals in Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Hnng Kong and China, and in some cases blacker than black Singaporeans and Malaysians of South Indian origin. I would like to ask these Brazilian whites one question, "where is your supremacy compared to the dark skinned orientals?
O Gringo Negro Fala
written by The American Historian, January 24, 2007
Thanks for the support. There may be light at the end of the tunnel, but it is a long tunnel. The Cheyenne Indians of North America believe every moment on this earth we encounter a reflection of ourselves. Too often, we don't like that reflection and you see the ensuing results.
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written by Simpleton, January 24, 2007
From the start I found this article just so inciteful and informative - NOT. Parsed through most of it but still got nothing of value.

First, in regards to bodiferous odors, I'm the one that stinks. Other that a poor old ex-pro in her sixties or seventies living on the street and a mid to upper teens flat chested girl living with the beach bums that had been true beach bums for the past one, two or more decades, I've never noticed Braziians emmanating anything that would cause me to think they smelled bad (and they don't even cover everything with heavy parfums like the Ital business professionals!) So why did this childs parents, aunts, uncles and or grandparents plant this seed of an idea that she should pop her dark skinned playmate into a deeply disconcerting state of mind with a statement she couldn't possibly have concluded from her own lifes experiences? I'm so glad that I didn't have contact with one of my granddads other than a short holiday every other year or so when I was little. I recognized quite quickly in my mid to late teens that he was bigoted but at least by that time I could think for myself and reject those feelings, tendancies, ideals, etc..

Yes, there have been other writtings on what was / had been purportedly done long long ago in regards to the lightening in Brazil. Clearly it's of no present day relevance other than the conceptional preferences that are being handed down from generation to generation and which I have observed in but one family of darker heritage.

Anyhow here's a requote of someone elses original ideas from above, I just modified a word or two to bring proper focus:

"Based on economic performance tite skinned Brazilians are farting much more poorly than the shark skinned orientals in Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Hnng Kong and China, and in some cases slacker than flack Singaporeans and Malaysians of South Indian origin. I would like to ask these Brazilian tites one question, "where is your pregnancy compared to the shark skinned orientals? "
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written by G. Chell, January 24, 2007
To answer Simpleton's question the breeding ability of the tite skinned Brazilian is considerably higher than that of the shark skinned orientals. Here the government is trying to increasing the collapsing birth rate.
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written by Simpleton, January 24, 2007
To G. yes, I believe. No need for qoutes or published statistics to back up what you say.

When hanging out at the bar for mens, an aquaintance that is a working stiff running a local internet cafe observes to me what the average gringo would think about the young neighborhood girl that comes by and very directly tries to interact with this old couldn't give a sh_t and never goes home other than alone a-whole: His comments came after the girl left and I pointed out just how much I marveled at what an incredibly flat tummy she had. She was dressed conservatively but this physical feature even in colder weather garb stood out as very unique. He says "See, there's a difference, when you look at girls here you only see pu?a and you have invitation but you don't go with her, when I look or any brasileiro here looks at a girl like this we see only beautifal girl, if she talks to us like this - boom we go and after only one time ..." and he makes the shape sign of 11 months pregnant destroying that phenomanally flat tummy image.

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written by Branco, January 24, 2007
Nunca indignou a consciência democrática brasileira o fato de você entrar numa sala de aula de uma universidade pública e só ver branco lá. E ao sair no corredor ver só negros na limpeza e na vigilância. Em São Paulo, até o início dos anos 50, havia normas que dificultavam o acesso de crianças negras à escola
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written by jabmalassie, January 24, 2007
Simpleton.

I didn't catch all of what you are saying.
G. Chell
written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007
Are you stupid? There's nobody supremacy here. The same cannot be said of the US.

Simpleton, I didn't understand what you said.
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written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007
Nunca indignou a consciência democrática brasileira o fato de você entrar numa sala de aula de uma universidade pública e só ver branco lá. E ao sair no corredor ver só negros na limpeza e na vigilância.


No meu trabalho eu vejo negros trabalhando em trabalhos que exigem qualificação (nível superior ou maior) e gente loira do olho azul limpando o chão. Mas eu nunca parei para pensar a respeito disso.
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written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007
BTW, this is the kind of defamation created by these Nazi articles, the Chell guy simply states that there's a supremacy here, ignoring not only the evidence otherwise but also what brazilians say. That's why brazilians need to voice against such idiots, a person that don't know Brazil might have the wrong idea because of these american segregationists.

I think it's too hard for their ego to recognize that there are countries that managed to solve the problem of race. They will to lower us to their level.
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written by bo, January 24, 2007
I think it's too hard for their ego to recognize that there are countries that managed to solve the problem of race


Doesn't he ever get tired of showing everyone his ignorance?
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written by P., Europe, January 24, 2007
Taís Araújo fez de Preta, sua personagem em Da Cor do Pecado, a primeira protagonista negra na história das novelas da Rede Globo.
Auto lá!
written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007
Nós temos nesse fórum pessoas chamando o Brasil de um país 50% preto e pardo (como se fosse tão simples classificar assim e como se isso fosse algum tipo de oposição ao restante do país), e outros citando mitos sobre mistura entre portugueses, espanhóis e mouros, e que isso prova que eles não são "brancos". E tampouco italianos são brancos, pois eles também "se misturaram".

E como que depois dizem que Taís Araújo foi a primeira? Se isso tudo que disseram fosse correto, logicamente, muitas pessoas "não-brancas" já foram protagonistas de novelas.

Se isso não é correto, então eu acredito que você deveria deixar claro para os leitores que você discorda do dito por esses ativistas que pregam a segregação.
Tais Araujo
written by The American Historian, January 24, 2007
Tais and Camila Pitanga would probably get mote television and movie work in the U.S. than they do in Brazil. Black American filmmakers and increasingly white filmakers are employing actresses like Rosario Dawson, Zoe Saldana, Dania Ramirez all the time. The Spanish language television stations almost never hire Afro-Latinas. I know A Brazilian--what do these Spanish language folks have to do with Brazil, but the situation does not seem to be much better where you folks speak Portugese. Adriana Lima gets more work in the U.S. and Europe than she would in Brazil.
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written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007
Huh!? Good for her! So what?

The contradiction with activists is that sometimes is convenient to call everyone black, some other times some distinction is used like the one you have just done.
A Brazilian
written by The American Historian, January 24, 2007
You sound increasingly exhausted and worn out A Brazilian. I think Mark Wells, bo and myself have given you a good workout. Just admit that everything we say is right and you are wrong. We can agree Brazilian women look great even if your society has some racism. How about that for a deal? And Ana, what ever happened to you and Adrianna? We need a woman's touch again.
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written by A brazilian, January 24, 2007
I can only interpret that as sarcasm.
A Brazilian
written by GTY, January 24, 2007
Do you have a life? How can you comment on every posting in such short time?
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written by Simpleton, January 25, 2007
Oh GTY, why so provocative? Of course many of us have no life except that which we look to the future to in our dreams. You have a good dream?

Sorry to all for my drunken stupor and complexity in writing stories of what I observe amongst more common folk in this world. Of course you do not understand all of what I am saying. Even without the difficulties of language and curltural differences, you would have a difficult time of this on many occasions. Complexidade em tudo. (O ache idiota com amor-perfieto.)

After thanking G. Chell for his answer to my question (an answer with which I agree with without question or demanding proof of its accuracy or authenticity in any way) I went on to tell a story of normal people having a normal after work social hour dscussing differneces in perception, treatment and reactions of typical gringo turistas (unlike Maluco's like myself) and what the local guys would think and do. Now that I go back and read what I said, I see it was totally out of place in this thread. I made no mention of any ones color in the story, I did not say one persons ideals, perceptions, actions (or inactions in my case) were better, more honest or more right than someone elses. Good God - listen carefully - let the good peoples of this world be. (Let it be, let it be ... da da da da da da, there will be an answer, let it be.)
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written by Rosana, January 25, 2007
Yes,there's is segregation in Brazil . brazlian whites are racist!
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written by A brazilian, January 25, 2007
Segragation, mixing, something is wrong with this logic. If there were segregation there would be no mixing and we would be like the US.
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written by A brazilian, January 25, 2007
I think the black and white americans teaming up against Brazil's culture is an example of what's going on in this site. Giving other people certain names is common, it is used for identifying what belongs to a group and what does not. But when you want to force your conceptions upon others, then this is an exercise of power. What we see here with this "racism" talk about Brazil is simply an attempt to gain power over Brazil, first by claiming its virtues are a lie, then by trying to replace its culture with an alien one.

The culture comes from the elite, not from the people, unlike some might think. It's prerrogative of the powerful to establish the values. Brazil has established its own values and mixing is at the core of brazilianity, to the point of brazilians not identifying others by race. This "independence" of the brazilian culture is not well seen by americans, after all, they believe they are the elite and no one else should be allowed to establish values other than them.

So now we see this fight against the rebeliousness of the people that refuse to use a leash... I mean, an identity.

One example of this attitude in history would be the indians and the portuguese. The portuguese first claimed the indians way of living was "without God", therefore not good, and used it as a moral pretext for "helping them", i.e., genocide, and to justify their violence. Once the portuguese established themselves they started dictating the values.

I would like to remind those brazilians that Brazil has advantage, culturally, over any other country in this planet in the context of a globalized world. Our culture is not set in stone and we feel free too adopt new values (despite of TV efforts to characterize Brazil as a country of samba and dancing mulattas). In the US they can't accept anything as american, you can see that by the need of labeling everything with some other name, to make sure that's not thought of as american or white.

But remember the cannibal myth, absorbing other values require actively taking them (not asking for) and a selective mind (to discern between the good and the bad), not passively accepting things! Just like our body, we eat, it uses the substances it needs, and excretes what's not needed.

It's our prerrogative to eat whatever we want, culturally. But this american racism is definetely "improper for consumption".

PS: The cannibal myth inverts the roles of oppressor and oppressed. In the case of the myth, it was the indians that eat the portuguese, and therefore became brazilians. This is a truly powerful idea. Everytime I hear whining a la americana I remember this myth and see how this goes well with the future.
SHAME!
written by Luca Roma, January 25, 2007
What a shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is this a democratic country?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s62kh3TccB0
Elite values
written by Will Pickering - Campinas SP, January 25, 2007
A Brazilian was right when he wrote:
"The culture comes from the elite, not from the people, unlike some might think. It's prerrogative of the powerful to establish the values. Brazil has established its own values and mixing is at the core of brazilianity, to the point of brazilians not identifying others by race."
It is the Brazilian elite who promulgate the notion the Brazil is a racially equal society, and a lot of Brazilians buy into the idea - that doesn't make it true.




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written by A brazilian, January 25, 2007
It is the Brazilian elite who promulgate the notion the Brazil is a racially equal society, and a lot of Brazilians buy into the idea - that doesn't make it true.


The elites of any country that promulgate any notion in any country, the people just buy into the idea.

As far as Brazil is concerned, its culture and globalization are a perfect match.
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written by rodrick, January 26, 2007
Man you need to relax!
Mark Wells knows it all
written by Jayjay, January 26, 2007

Mark

I am black, I am a proud black. It is only natural that there is a sense of inferiority that the term black imply. Don't forget, they have been slaves and no one can change that. Brazil had never focus on racial issues as much as now. People like you love to label everything and focus on the negative aspect of the issues. You don't know anything about Brazil and you should keep your mouth shot. Go watch an American soap opera to see only beautiful people with wonderful bodies and wonder if that's what you see on the streets. You have been hanging out with people like you and that is the problem. Forget about Brazil, get it of you Brazilian visa as soon as possible. One more thing, mulatas. You don't understand about them because you might not like women in general. They are different because they have perfect bodies and they dance like no one else in the world.Don't slant reality to make a sensational article, people are aware of what you are doing. Brazil is better off without you.
Mark....
written by Lord Invader, January 26, 2007
You're not black. It's a front. You're a white Brazilian posing as one. (Then again, I might be wrong--Brazil does have its fair share of Uncle Toms!!) smilies/cheesy.gif
A Brazilian ?
written by The American Historian, January 26, 2007
Are you serious? Where did you read or hear there has never been any "mixing" in the U.S. Maybe those White and Indian ancestors of mine listed on government records
(as well as for most other black Americans) are a figment of my imagination. Most of the white men in the U.S. who had sex with black women were also white supremacists who favored official segregation. Have you heard of Thomas Jefferson or Strom Thurmond (both had kids with black women). How about tales of some of the white American guys who lynched black men but also had black mistresses on the side?

So more white Brazilian men had sex with black or indian women than happened in the U.S.--that proves nothing. The U.S. had many more white women and fewer black and indian woman than existed in Latin America. So doing what all men do, they (Latin American white men) had more sex with the kinds of women who were present in the highest numbers. I'll bet the average black man who lives in China has had more sex with Chinese women than black men who live in Africa or the U.S. because there are a lot of Chinese woman in China. Quite a few black men in Mexico (and increasingly where I live in Los Angeles) have married Indian or Mestizo women. Well, yes, of course.
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written by A brazilian, January 27, 2007
So more white Brazilian men had sex with black or indian women than happened in the U.S.--that proves nothing.


Are you joking? Did the white supremacists live together as a family with their black kids??? I am talking about everyday reality, not something in the 19th century. People mix since a long time ago, and live as family, you know, father, mother and child in the same house with a sentimental bond, caring for each other. You are simply pathetic by trying to imply that the mixing in here was created by rape or violence by people that despised them.

You have absolutely no clue of what you are talking about. You and the rest of the pathetic americans that come to this speak of problems that don't exist.

So, if you feel more confortable this way, instead of using the sexual intercourse as an evidence of non racism, let's change that to "building a family" and living together. People live together, and don't hate each other by racial reasons.


This is simply disgusting.

BTW, it's not only about black and indians and portuguese, you have no idea of the level of diversity of Brazil.
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written by Jorgao, January 28, 2007
. Can you tell if I am black, white, American or Brazilian by the way I write?? Does it matter? These articles are interesting, I don’t agree with a lot of things that Mark writes but I think the debate is healthy and necessary. I don’t think anybody is denying that racism exists in Brazil, it does. But I sense a constant obsession (by the Americans in particular) on pointing the finger at the Brazilians about racial issues. Is there a certain amount of inveja (envy)? Why compete? Will that benefit anybody except ourselves for a minute or two? Let’s learn from each other! Remember that Brazil was the last country in the western hemisphere to abolish slavery (188smilies/cool.gif? And now Brazil has evolved the most in many aspects relating to racial, not social class issues. We should be careful not to feed into any kind of discrimination, I can’t help but feel as if this forum has caused unrest amongst some Brazilian and American participants. My message to you all is "tolerance" take the progress in the US in regards to race and utilize it and vice versa. Our enemy is this false pride! Let’s take what doesn’t/ didn’t work and scrap it...and most importantly move on!! Brazil is beautiful because of the unity amongst each other, example: Anybody born in Brazil being any color is Brazilian, period!. There is no Italian Brazilian, Mexican Brazilian etc. At least it is not obsessed upon because of an identity crises or for whatever reason. The result is less discrimination! This is the reason that on the black market the Brazilian passport is worth the most, because Brazilians can look like any "race" or ethnicity.

Who wants to take my opinion apart, I am ready. But can you really argue against working together? Unity is where it’s at!

A Brazilian, Jorgao
written by The American Historian, January 28, 2007
"Did the White Supremacists [in the U.S.] live together as a family with their black kids?" In some cases yes. Thomas Jefferson, his part black mistress and their kids lived together as a defacto family until his death (his mistress was his late wife's half-sister). Jefferson taught his part black sons a trade as carpenters. My great-great grandfather was left quite a bit of land in Oklahoma by his white relatives. I had other part white and indian ancestors (who would have been white by the standards of Brazil) who lived as husbands with their black wives. Why do you have to tell yourself that Brazil or Latin America was the only place where this would have happened? And obviously, my own personal family history proves nothing nothing about the lack of racism in the United States--and similar relationships say nothing about its existence in Brazil.

Also, where did I say most sexual relations between white and non-white women in Brazil were the result of rape? Mark Wells implies this not me, and I assume he has good sources to back up his claim.

"You and the rest of the pathetic Americans that come to speak of problems that don't exist."

You sir must be a man who still believes in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

".....you have no idea of the level of diversity of Brazil. "

Portugese, African, Indian, German, Italian, Japanese and smaller groups of assorted others. Does that cover most of it? Of course, one of the reasons you encouraged such immigration was in the hope that your black and indian population would someday disappear. Yes, further proof that Brazil has never had any racial problems or hangups.
I know it may seem ugly to look at now , but it is the truth.
Jorgao
written by The American Historian, January 28, 2007
"But I sense a constant obsession (by the Americans in paticular) on pointing the finger at Brazil on racial issues."

You see Jorgao, I entered this discussion after I saw some Brazilians and others distorting or outright lying about the extent of the racial problems in the U.S. Some of them would probably deny it now, but they have engaged in outright distortions at times as a way to make Brazil's racial situation look better than it in fact is. I only began to point out Brazil's probblems as a way of showing not only the similarities between the two countries, but also to display areas where in fact the U.S. is ahead of Brazil. I am not obsessed with race either in this country or Brazil.

And can you really claim Brazilians don't think much about race? Oh please sir, how can a country with so many blacks and pardos almost completely exclude them from the media if YOU ARE NOT THE ONES OBSESSED WITH RACE? How can a country have dozens of skin color designations if YOU ARE NOT THE ONES OBSESSED WITH RACE?
How can a country with so many brown and black skinned women use white Aryan types like Ms. Bundchen for your models if YOU ARE NOT THE ONES OBSESSED WITH RACE? Can you imagine a situation where the only actresses you saw on U.S. movies and television looked like Halle Berry or Beyonce Knowles? That would be ridiculous.
Even a country like India, with all its focus on color, allows more brown skinned women to represent it than Brazil.

"Anybody born in Brazil being any color is Brazilian period! The result is less discrimination!"

And this is not the case in most other countries? In my 43 years of life no White American has ever told me I was not an American--I am a black American, yes with all of the potential drawbacks--but still an American. The last time white Americans made a serious attempt to kick blacks out of the U.S. was in the 1860's. The white supremacists are the only folks who still talk about it, so I assume you must think most white Americans think like that. (i.e., our blacks are not real Americans).

Please, no more analysis of the Brazilian race situation that relies on too much myth and superstition.
Respell
written by The American Historian, January 28, 2007
Problems.
The U.S. Race Situation
written by The American Historian, January 28, 2007
I think you are misinformed about the extent of interracial relationships in the U.S. True, most blacks and whites and even others marry within their race, but in some parts of the U.S. (where the black population is lower) it is increasingly difficult to see a black man who is not with a woman of another race. In my Navy service I visited places like Seattle, San Diego, Hawaii, Arizona and Nevada and in those places I was much more likely to see a black man with a woman of another race (white, brown or Asian) than with a black woman due to the smaller number of blacks in these places.
Where higher concentrations of blacks live, black couples are still more the norm.

But ask yourself this, based on what I have heard, and I have never visited Brazil, it is very rare to see a black man with a white or light skinned woman in the whiter regions of South Brazil is it not? Why is it that in the less black regions of the U.S. a black man can find nonblack women who will date or marry him but for South Brazilians doing so is less common? Probably, the only black and mulatto guys those women would date are Pele or Ronaldo. Sad sad sad in the racial democracy with "no racial problems."
American Historian
written by A brazilian, January 28, 2007
In some cases yes.


What!? Hahahahahahahahaha. Ok, in Brazil we see it in every day reality, and have seen it since a long time ago and on TV was well and everywhere else! You have absolutely zero data about Brazil and claims that white supremacists LOVED their blacks kids and yet HATED blacks!? How!?

In my 43 years of life no White American has ever told me I was not an American--I am a black American,...


I highlighted the part we brazilians LAUGH at the you. You are a BLACK american. Americans love to label others with prefixes or other names to show they aren't only americans, but something else too. In Brazil we are all brazilians, you won't hear any other designation. Only a few people call themselves something else, but usually they are immigrants that like to tell where they are from, nobody forces them.

Oh please sir, how can a country with so many blacks and pardos almost completely exclude them from the media if YOU ARE NOT THE ONES OBSESSED WITH RACE?


Fact 1: we don't exclude anybody from the media. As I told already and other brazilians can confirm, we see a lot of negros and pardos on TV, even in couples with other kinds of people. We are almost in february and now the TV will be flooded with black people because of the carnaval.

Besides, if you knew anything about Brazil you would know that many things in the brazilian culture came from Africa and brazilians simply think of them as being brazilians, no prefixes. This shows how this country don't bother about race, they include the blacks in the brazilian identity.

can a country have dozens of skin color designations if YOU ARE NOT THE ONES OBSESSED WITH RACE?


I think the man designations shows exactly how relaxed brazilians are towards that. Race is nothing but an old concept that lost its meaning. It lost so much meaning that people started creating many names. Today it means only how the person looks, but not the exact ethnicity and it has not racial purity ideals implied like americans love to use.

Americans in the other hand use the same racial myth as some white supremacist in the 19th century used, no difference. The difference from then and now is that people managed to live in a society, work and study together without killing each other.

How can a country with so many brown and black skinned women use white Aryan types like Ms. Bundchen for your models if YOU ARE NOT THE ONES OBSESSED WITH RACE?


Brazilians didn't elect Gisele for anything, but the international companies that pay her to appear in TV commercials. Brazilians think Gisele is not as pretty as people say because she lacks meat in the right spots. Too flat assed to our taste.

you imagine a situation where the only actresses you saw on U.S. movies and television looked like Halle Berry or Beyonce Knowles? That would be ridiculous.


Why ridiculous? Do you classify people according to a racial ideal? You just proved now how racist you are, brazilians would probably think of them as equals, not some other denomination.

it is very rare to see a black man with a white or light skinned woman in the whiter regions of South Brazil is it not?


Not true. I had a friend that was as mestizo as me but happened to look more like a black person. He moved to the south and was pretty popular with the girls. I visited him a few times and I saw there was no discrimination, nothing noticeable at least, and also could see that I was kind of popular also! smilies/smiley.gif

Racism is a crime in Brazil, even the few that could actually be racists won't have the courage to speak up. If they do then they know they can be arrested.

Why is it that in the less black regions of the U.S. a black man can find nonblack women who will date or marry him but for South Brazilians doing so is less common?


You are the one making up things. People date each other in Brazil it doesn't matter what the race. Please don't speak of things you don't know.

, the only black and mulatto guys those women would date are Pele or Ronaldo. Sad sad sad in the racial democracy with "no racial problems.


Not true, I had my fair share of blonde girlfriends already (blue-eyed, blonde, very white) I don't see any problems and haven't seen any other person with problems regarding that.

American Historian, you are completely clueless.
...
written by bo, January 28, 2007
written by Jorgao, 2007-01-27 19:27:13

. Can you tell if I am black, white, American or Brazilian by the way I write?? Does it matter? These articles are interesting, I don’t agree with a lot of things that Mark writes but I think the debate is healthy and necessary. I don’t think anybody is denying that racism exists in Brazil, it does


A Brazilian will take issue with you Jorgao, according to him, there is NO RACISM in brazil!
Living in a fantasy world
written by Lord Invader, January 29, 2007
I've been reading the comments by "A Brazilian" and it is amazing, indeed, the lengths that some fools on here would go to in their outright denial of reality. This jerk won't even read stats issued by his own government confirming the reality of racial discrimination in Brazil. He's so far gone that he would keep talking his nonsense about Brazil being race-free even if a gun was held to his head.

And yet, the fact that he so vehemently denies the existence of racism in Brazil ironically proves that it does exist. Otherwise, why would he be so reluctant to look into the situation?

What a fool.
...
written by Jorgao, January 29, 2007
Lord Invader,

Why the personal attacks on "A Brazilian"? Cant you introduce an argument with some dignified entelect? I think you can, just try harder. People should except that Brazil is very different and if you havent truly experienced the culture you dont know what the reality is like, although you may have an idea.. I am not trying to insult anybody, I just am being truthful. I see all mixes of couples in Brazil, every kind you can imagine, on a consistant basis holding hands dating etc. Class is the issue and naturaly it is harder to work your way up from the bottom$.
...
written by Jorgao, January 29, 2007
cry about the misspelings......
...
written by bo, January 29, 2007
written by Jorgao, 2007-01-29 06:04:42

Lord Invader,

Why the personal attacks on "A Brazilian"?



Jorgao;

It's not a personal attack on A Brazilian, it's simply stating the fact about how he denies the reality of racism as well as ANY negative fact concerning brazil.

I mean, it is quite humorous as everyone knows the many terrible realities that exist in brazil, yet he denies all of them. And even has stated that if he admits them he would be "humiliating" himself! He's humiliating himself, and all other brazilians, by the blatent denial of these terrible facts.

The very perpetrators of these crimes, corrupt politicians, rich land owners that "employ" slave laborers, organized crime, murderers, they LOVE people like A Brazilian, because according to him these realities don't exist!! So, if they don't exist, there is no problem, so naturally, a resolution is never needed. People like him are assuring that brazil's reality will not only stay the same, but worsen.
...
written by A brazilian, January 29, 2007
I don't think you know anything about Brazil. Those slave laborers are no less slave than the mexicans in the US, that are brought there by the organized crime.

You live racially segregated in the US, you can't deny that.
What dignified arguements?
written by Lord Invader, January 29, 2007
Jorgao: Lord Invader,

Why the personal attacks on "A Brazilian"? Cant you introduce an argument with some dignified entelect? I think you can, just try harder. People should except that Brazil is very different and if you havent truly experienced the culture you dont know what the reality is like, although you may have an idea.. I am not trying to insult anybody, I just am being truthful. I see all mixes of couples in Brazil, every kind you can imagine, on a consistant basis holding hands dating etc. Class is the issue and naturaly it is harder to work your way up from the bottom$.

Lord Invader: So, what? I saw them, too. I've been to Brazil. And I have seen the complexions of the waiters in all the major resturants, the complexions of the bank tellers, clerks, businessmen, etc. They are almost exclusively white. And the complexions of the beggars on the street are almost exclusively black. Care to explain why this is?
Oh, and for your information....
written by Lord Invader, January 29, 2007
....as for all kinds of different races holding hands and smooching and kissing, one doesn't need to go to Brazil to find THAT. You can easily find that in the Bay Area. Or New York City. Or Philadelphia. Or Toronto. Or Los Angeles. Or....
Lord Invader
written by The American Historian, January 29, 2007
You don't understand Lord, it was all a figment of your imagination. You and I are just troublemakers, pointing out ridiculous facts like the rare presence of blacks and pardos in the media when at least half (probably more) in Brazil fit that category. Don't you know there is a logical explanation for this? Maybe the nonwhites don't want to be waiters, tellers, telenovela actors, models or political leaders. All of the dark skinned folks want to be maids, beggars, get discriminated against and so forth. I thought you understood that.

But, I am just a black man filled with hate. Only a man filled with hate would notice those things. It is all a mirage buddy......
No no no
written by The American Historian, January 29, 2007
No Lord invader, Brazil is the only country where you find interracial couples. They invented the idea in 1500 and have had a patent on it since then. I am a lightskinned American black man and my parents probably lied to me about my heritage. Those nonwhite ancestors of mine were probably secretly Brazilian since that is the only way my ancestors could have been the product of inteeracial unions. All whites and blacks in the U.S. hate each other; there has never been any interracial sex up here and you know that.
Respell
written by The American Historian, January 29, 2007
Interracial
Why, of course....
written by Lord Invader, January 29, 2007
All those Asian/black couples I saw out in Oakland late last year was just a figment of my imagination!!
smilies/grin.gif
And again....
written by Lord Invader, January 29, 2007
....The only reason why Black Brazilians have come to question their degraded status in Brazilian society is because of them pesky outside agitators from the U.S.A., with their stupid race pride and black Naziism. Things were so much better when they were content to just blow Germans for coconut milk and dance the samba during Carnaval and be wild, free, funky and primitive!! Because that's the way the PRETO naturally is, right?? smilies/wink.gif
...
written by Jorgao, January 30, 2007
Sarcasm is something that is truly not as common in Brazilian culture... It’s ugly and disgraceful!! You guys have really gone off the deep end!
Blow jobs for coconut milk, where? I'll provdide the coconuts....

I you ever heard the term divide and conquer? Apply the same logic/way of thinking to the leaders/politicians who want to control a large group of people. Division of the people is in there best interest in order to remain and gain in power. This explains the current state of the US. Racial tention is higher than ever in LA, especially amongst the Hispanic and black gangs. If everybody who was born in the US was just American, would people be more united? The answer is yes.... we are all mixed. We all have roots in Africa. There is now pure race.
...
written by Jorgao, January 30, 2007
"All those Asian/black couples I saw out in Oakland late last year was just a figment of my imagination!! " Lord INvader


The fact that interracial couples exist doesn’t mean that racism isn’t a problem.
...
written by bo, January 30, 2007
...
written by A brazilian, 2007-01-29 10:12:24

I don't think you know anything about Brazil. Those slave laborers are no less slave than the mexicans in the US, that are brought there by the organized crime.



This has already been shown how very different these two realities are! And by you attempting to equivalate an illegal immigrant in the U.S., whom can LEAVE his job at any moment, who is FREE to go back to his country at any moment, who DOES NOT get beaten, maimed, or even killed when attempting to leave his job, with a brazilian that is working in "slave labor" conditions, is truly pathetic!

Aren't you ashamed of yourself for trying to diminish the terrible reality that exists for slave laborers in brazil??
...
written by bo, January 30, 2007
...
written by Jorgao, 2007-01-30 01:09:44

"All those Asian/black couples I saw out in Oakland late last year was just a figment of my imagination!! " Lord INvader


The fact that interracial couples exist doesn’t mean that racism isn’t a problem.




EXACTLY!

So why do some of the idiots here use that fact to infer that racism doesn't exist in brazil???
...
written by A brazilian, January 30, 2007
EXACTLY!

So why do some of the idiots here use that fact to infer that racism doesn't exist in brazil???


But we don't have any interracial marriages, we are all brazilians. This word is purely an anglo-saxon one and representative of racism mindset of the peoples influenced by it.
...
written by Jorgao, January 30, 2007
Exactly.!
...
written by Ric, January 30, 2007
Oh, absolutely. Pure Race means the car cannot be driven on the street. At least that´s what it meant to all of us in the drag racing fraternity.
...
written by Ric, January 31, 2007
From The Examiner: Senator Barack Obama, the only major black candidate in the 2008 presidential race, has spent much of his life anguishing over his mixed-race heritage and self-described "racial obsessions".......From his book, "Dreams of my Father", "...The mixed blood, the divided soul, the ghostly image of the tragic mulatto trapped between two worlds...."

He wrote two books. The above is not what is going to sink his ship, but his reference to several role models is. He is so screwed politically. Probably seemed like a good idea at the time to write them....I respect his intellect more than I can say, he was head of Harvard Law Review, but politics is not something for amateurs and he should have vetted those books and now will pay the price for not having done so. In my opinion. He likes Malcolm X, who cursed the forefather that gave him his white blood and red tint to his hair. Liked it when he was a kid, grew to hate it. Great stuff, but not going to fly with the voters....but we´ll see......
...
written by bo, January 31, 2007
UNITED
NATIONS
E
Economic and Social
Council
Distr.
GENERAL
E/CN.4/2006/16/Add.3
28 February 2006
Original: ENGLISH
COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS
Sixty-second session
Item 6 of the provisional agenda
RACISM, RACIAL DISCRIMINATION, XENOPHOBIA
AND ALL FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION
Report of the Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, racial
discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance, Doudou Diène
Addendum∗
MISSION TO BRAZIL
(17-26 October 2005)




Summary
The Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination,
xenophobia and related intolerance visited Brazil from 17 to 26 October 2005. The
purpose of the mission was to assess the situation of racial discrimination in Brazil and
the policies adopted by the Government to combat such discrimination since his last visit
(see E/CN.4/1996/72/Add.1).
The Special Rapporteur concluded that racial discrimination is deeply rooted in Brazil
and has influenced the structure of the entire society for the last five centuries.
This
discrimination principally affects the autochthonous Amerindian community and the population
of African descent, but also certain migrant workers, refugees and asylum-seekers from
South American and Caribbean countries. The profound structural nature of racism and racial
discrimination is illustrated by the identity of political, social and economic marginalization with
the map of the human and cultural specificities of these communities. More profoundly racism
touches on the issue of cultural identity manifested in the contradiction between, on one side, the
“folklorization” and “instrumentalization” of the culture and religions of these communities as a
means of hiding the reality of racism and discrimination and on the other, the lack of
representation of these communities in the media and the structures and places of power.
...
written by bo, January 31, 2007
B. Historical context

4. The Portuguese arrived in the Brazilian territory in 1500, and found an indigenous
population. Since then, this indigenous population has been decimated by centuries of violence,
and then by epidemics and diseases caught from the European invader. Brazilian colonial
history is characterized by the export of wood, sugar cane, gold and diamonds, which made
intense use of the labour of African slaves, brought over by the Portuguese for over three
centuries. Brazil received 40 per cent of the estimated tens of millions of enslaved Africans
brought by Europeans to the northern hemisphere, the Americas and the Caribbean. Through
many episodes of revolt and resistance to slavery, groups of enslaved Africans escaped, creating
organized black communities called “quilombos”.
5. Slavery was abolished in 1888. The racial miscegenation that followed between
Whites, Blacks and Indians, determined the ethnical and cultural map of Brazil. Brazil became
independent in 1822. The republic was proclaimed in 1889 and a federative and decentralized
system was adopted. Racism and racial discrimination, ideological pillars of the slave system
and colonization, profoundly affected the structure of the Brazilian society. Consequently at
the end of the nineteenth century, with two thirds of the population of black African descent,
a
policy of whitening of the population was put in place: the State promoted the immigration
of millions of white Europeans. A military regime ruled from 1964 to 1985, until Brazil
returned to democracy in 1989. The current President, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, took office
on 1 January 2003.
...
written by bo, January 31, 2007
Even Lula Admits it!! But NOT "A brazilian";D
written by bo, January 31, 2007
II. POLITICAL AND LEGAL STRATEGY OF PUBLIC AUTHORITIES
10. The Special Rapporteur, in seeking to assess the political will to combat racism at the
highest level, had the honour and the pleasure to meet with President Lula da Silva. He
appreciated the President’s frank recognition of the existence of racism and its influence on the
mentality and everyday life of Brazilian society
and the strong expression of his political will to
eradicate it. The President recognized that the law is not sufficient, assessed the resistance and
obstacles to any meaningful change and pointed to the challenge of deeply transforming the
current mentalities. In this context, the law on the teaching of African history in primary school
was adopted. In the last few years, institutions and programmes specifically in charge of
combating racial discrimination were established, including an affirmative action programme in
universities and the establishment in 2003 of the Special Secretariat for the Promotion of Racial
Equality (SEPPIR). The President admitted that very much still remains to be done.
...
written by bo, January 31, 2007
14. The Minister of Justice recognizes that racism is deeply rooted in the Brazilian mentality,
but public authorities hide it.
Today, the political recognition of racism exists together with a
good legislative framework, but a change of mentality will be difficult to achieve. Some
significant progress has already been made with the affirmative action programmes in the
universities. However, the judiciary is very conservative and has integrated racial prejudices.
Therefore, an external monitoring programme on the democratization of the judiciary has been
put in place.
...
written by bo, January 31, 2007
18. During the visit of the Special Rapporteur to Salvador, the Mayor inaugurated the
Human Rights Municipal Council, with equal representation of local government and civil
society, which will allow civil society leaders to participate in the development of municipal
human rights policies. Its priority will be fighting against the assassination of young Blacks,
after the disclosure of shocking statistics indicating that in the city of Salvador 631 people have
been assassinated in the first eight months of 2005, almost all of them being young Blacks:
this
is an increase of 19 per cent compared to last years’ figures. The majority of these crimes have
not been sanctioned. The Council will deal with other issues such as the persecution and
assassination of homosexuals, religious intolerance against religion of African origins, the fight
for the recognition of quilombos, the improvement of education, health and housing, the
demarcation of indigenous land and the eradication of institutional racism.
"A brazilian" is Really the Governor of Recife????
written by bo, January 31, 2007
19. The Governor of Recife, in the State of Pernambuco, indicated that racism is not a
pertinent problem of Brazil. Racism exists but is limited, while social disparities and violence
are prevalent. He said the country has black idols in football and music, which shows the lack of
racism.
However, whenever racism occurs, it is denounced and sanctioned. Concerning the
policies put in place, a regional conference on racial equality was organized in May 2005, and
debates on human rights issues are organized around the country.





Hey, in the U.S. Michael Jordan, Michael Jackson, Beyonce, Oprah, Jesse Jackson, are ALL famous american idols!!! Hence, how can racism exist???
...
written by bo, January 31, 2007
In São Paulo, the Special Rapporteur was informed of the creation in 1993 of a Council
for Black Community Participation and Development, at the State level, which gathers the civil
society organizations in order to advise the Government on the development of public policy.
The Secretary of State for Justice, the first Afro-Brazilian in this position, stated that while
racism is generally recognized in the political sphere, the media and the population largely deny
it. Racial discrimination is evident in the widespread poverty, hunger, medical and educational
exclusion, lack of access to employment, justice and political participation for the black
population. It is also manifest in the denigration of religions of African origin.
...
written by bo, January 31, 2007
22. The Secretary for Human Rights of the State of Rio de Janeiro referred to the recent
emblematic case of the murder by the police of a black man in São Paulo: when it was
discovered that he was a dentist, there were great repercussions for the case and the police
officers were speedily tried and condemned. This is practically a unique case: for the thousands
of other similar murder cases, nothing is done.
Rio de Janeiro is the only State that has an
external controller for the police, which illustrates the gravity of the situation. In a recent
massacre by the police of 29 people, all Black, with one survivor, the Secretariat for Human
Rights assisted the external controller in its work and proposed and obtained the adoption by the
Governor of a life annuity for the families of the victims. However, turning to sanctions,
according to a survey he conducted in 10 police districts, only 4 per cent of the murders
committed are solved, and only for the highest levels of society.
The Secretariat assists in the
training of police officers, to make them aware of their racist approach.
This report is messed up
written by A brazilian, January 31, 2007
This is one of those cases where people know the conclusion before even start the research and just produce the evidence they think it's convenient to support. Now that you have mentioned I will send them an e-mail, not sure if they will read, but this is ridiculous.

The whole text seems more to follow the same story from some hate-groups, with innacuracies or plain lies, here is one example:

Racial discrimination is evident in the widespread poverty, hunger, medical and educational
exclusion, lack of access to employment, justice and political participation for the black
population. It is also manifest in the denigration of religions of African origin


So all the proverty problems in Brazil are a simple matter of race (sic) and the african religions are denigrated!? They practice it freely, and not as something in the ghetto.
...
written by bo, January 31, 2007
talk to the secretary of justice in sao paulo about it, I'm sure he'll be glad to hear from yet another brazilian idiot that denies the fact that racism exists in brazil....especially being a black man himself.
...
written by bo, January 31, 2007
This report is messed up
written by A brazilian, 2007-01-31 10:11:02




"They are not in Baghdad. They are not in control of any airport. I tell you this. It is all a lie. They lie. It is a hollywood movie. You do not believe them."

...
written by Ric, January 31, 2007
The scientific method starts with a clean sheet of paper and procedes toward a conclusion based on the evidence. Most educated people know that, and instinctively reject arguments from those who begin with a premise, be that premise religious, scientific, political, or sociological, and then seek to promote that premise and defend it regardless of what the facts indicate.

"A Brazilian" starts with preconceived ideas about his his country and his own national identity, and maybe his ethnicity, and sifts all info thru the grid of what helps his concepts and what hurts them. Using his method and mindset, one can never come to the truth about a topic. And educated observers can spot that without having it pointed out. So I´m not pointing it out, just commenting on it.
Ric
written by A brazilian, January 31, 2007
You are right about it, this was what I cited in the earlier post about that report in specific and many comments and articles in this forum in the past. Mark Wells himself admitted in one of those articles that he start with a Black vs. White idea, but then changed it because he couldn't apply it to Brazil.

The problem is that foreigners come looking for something they already "know", and just produce the evidence to support it, and some of the evidence are very carefully selected "statistics". As you know, numbers carry no value of good or bad, a 5 is a number 5, it doesn't tell how good or how bad it is, the numbers must be interpreted, and picking them selectively you can prove whatever you want.

In the report in question the author completely ignores the mixing in the change of meaning in the word "race". Dividing a society strictly would look for the majority of this population as something taken out of a SS character from WWII movie.
...
written by bo, January 31, 2007
In the report in question the author completely ignores the mixing in the change of meaning in the word "race".



You really need to have a talk with the minister of justice in sao paulo!


Want me to arrange the meeting???


LOL.
...
written by A brazilian, January 31, 2007
Want me to arrange the meeting???


Yes, I actually do.
To all the Brazillians
written by nenkia, January 31, 2007
I found Mark Wells' article quite informative...to all the ppl who disagree, can you please tell me if it's true about the girls on the cover of brazil Playboy being invariably white? it might seem like a tawdry point of discussion but i believe it speaks volumes in regards to Brazil's "drive" for whiteness"
Para Nenkia
written by A brazilian, January 31, 2007
You should be careful for what you believe.
Nenkia
written by The American Historian, January 31, 2007
You are right Nenkia it does "speak volumes" and speaks to much more than that.
When a country thinks they can hide a huge part of their population from the rest of the world, all they do is make themselves look worse to everybody else. Yet Brazilians think all they have to do is point to some interracial dating and marriage in their country and that means none of these other things matter. A premodern way of thinking I would argue. It is easier for a black women to get on magazine covers in the
those great bastions of racism called the U.S. and Europe than it is in Brazil. But don't worry, Brazilian men love to have sex with their mulattas from time to time so that proves everything is just fine.
...
written by A brazilian, January 31, 2007
When a country thinks they can hide a huge part of their population from the rest of the world...


Are retard? Nobody is hiding anyone. Is this the Goebels tactic, repeat a lie a thousand times until it becomes truth?

You a sick man, you in your few lines have just offended many millions of people in Brazil who have people of different origins in the family by insinuating mulatas are only used for occasional sex. Please learn about the reality, don't fight it. No matter what you say it won't change it.
to A brazilian
written by nenkia, February 01, 2007
ok then enlighten me by answering my question...it's simple enough
...
written by bo, February 01, 2007
written by A brazilian, 2007-01-31 16:48:29

When a country thinks they can hide a huge part of their population from the rest of the world...



Are retard? Nobody is hiding anyone. Is this the Goebels tactic, repeat a lie a thousand times until it becomes truth?

You a sick man, you in your few lines have just offended many millions of people in Brazil who have people of different origins in the family by insinuating mulatas are only used for occasional sex. Please learn about the reality, don't fight it. No matter what you say it won't change it.



"The shock has backfired on them. They are shocked because of what they have seen. No one received them with roses. They were received with bombs, shoes and bullets. Now, the game has been exposed. Awe will backfire on them. This is the boa snake. We will extend it further and cut it the appropriate way."


http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/iim_normandy.jpg
...
written by bo, February 01, 2007
Bo Gump
written by A brazilian, February 01, 2007
Bo, you have the mind of a 10 years old.
Para Nenkia
written by A brazilian, February 01, 2007
Answer me this first. Was Mark Wells allowed to perform DNA testing in each of those woman to make sure there was no trace of african blood there?
Well it appears...
written by bo, February 01, 2007
that we have finally found out what happened to the minister of disinformation in Iraq, otherwise known as "Baghdad Bob". He has gotten a new job as the disinformation minister of brazzil.com, lmao!
para A brazilian
written by nenkia, February 01, 2007
dna testing is not necessary...brazilians come in a myriad of complexions, from visibly caucasian ancestry to sub-saharan african ancestry...in a supposedly egaliterian society like brazil, shouldn't that be reflected in the media?...
Para A brazilian
written by malinda, February 01, 2007
A brazillian - as intelligent as you come across, I think you really should be more objective in your arguements. Judging by it's media output, Brazil comes across as a colour-struck society...consciously or sub-consciously, Brazil's hierachical structure runs in conjunction with phenotypes...

And the ironic thing is - on the international stage - Brazil likes to be exonerated for it's melting pot but it doesn't seem like an ideal that its media wants to pursue and we all know how powerful the media can be in manipulating mindsets... C'mon A brazilian, you are not blind...or are you?
...
written by Ric, February 01, 2007
"A Brazilian", your post indicates that you are of the opinion that race can be determined from DNA. Is that really what you think, or were you just speaking rhetorically?
right on the mark ric!!!
written by bo, February 02, 2007
DNA testing to tell racial differences......what's that tell ya 'bout our old, ignorant friend?
...
written by Jorgao, February 02, 2007
Wow.....its gang up on "A Brazilian" week!!
...
written by Jorgao, February 02, 2007
Written by Ric

"The scientific method starts with a clean sheet of paper and proceeds toward a conclusion based on the evidence. Most educated people know that, and instinctively reject arguments from those who begin with a premise, be that premise religious, scientific, political, or sociological, and then seek to promote that premise and defend it regardless of what the facts indicate.

"A Brazilian" starts with preconceived ideas about his country and his own national identity, and maybe his ethnicity, and sifts all info thru the grid of what helps his concepts and what hurts them. Using his method and mindset, one can never come to the truth about a topic. And educated observers can spot that without having it pointed out. So I’m not pointing it out, just commenting on it."


First off take a look at Ric’s scientific, logical mess, can you say major contradiction! Just look at the last phrase.” So I’m not pointing it out, just commenting on it." Need I explain?


This critique written by “Ric” can also be applied to the writer Mr. Wells as "A Brazilian" helped point out, thank you! Every opinion that results from a scientific method begins with a premise, so what are we supposed to do? How can we continue our debate? Have you even lived in Brazil Ric? I just want to say that be careful about your assumptions. Take stereotypes into consideration, but don’t hesitate to disregard most of what you thought was true. The path to understanding begins with experiencing the culture, learning the language and truly interacting with all the people, wealthy and poor. I am not suggestion that racism doesn’t exist. I don’t see at as black and white, I see all the shades of grey on the subject. A lot of these statistics are manipulated and BIAS. Brazil has a lot to overcome, but the racism has been exaggerated on a massive scale.

Many of the problems are pure economics (oops there's my premise). I am no scientist, and I choose not to google statistics in my favor. Back to economics, have you considered the problems a class issue? I think these needs to be explored further. Brazil is a capitalist country as we all know and the majority of the wealth is reserved for the top1% just like the US. The problem begins here, because it leaves the rest of the population struggling. Capitalism works better in the US because it is at the top of the pyramid scheme (wealthiest nation,lead capitalist nation). A lot of Brazilians lack the basics and capitalism has just fed the greedy who already had roots deeply imbedded in Brazil. The world needs a new economic model, it will be forced to happen, just watch and see. The chaos shows this to be true. Call me a commy or a socialist, I don’t care. I just know that change must happen and we will be forced to make this change internationally, whatever it takes. But first we need to work together and find common ground and we need to be willing to work through our differences.
...
written by Ric, February 02, 2007
A basic principle of semantics is that given two terms, they do not mean exactly the same thing by virtue of the fact that they exist. Pointing something out is not the same as commenting on it.

You´re a commy. You´re a socialist. Actually redundant because communism is a subcategory of the larger term, socialism. Satisfied?

I am in Brazil as I write this, in a house I built in 1971.
...
written by A brazilian, February 02, 2007
dna testing is not necessary...brazilians come in a myriad of complexions, from visibly caucasian ancestry to sub-saharan african ancestry...in a supposedly egaliterian society like brazil, shouldn't that be reflected in the media?


The only complexion I see here are americans trying to portray brazilians as an african country. We have all kinds of people and looks and definetely the TV or magazines aren't reserved to this or that kind of people. What I meant by DNA testing is that the person could have black ancestors but her appearance not to be obvious. This kind of kills his argument, since racism implies a system of labeling people based on ancestry.

One person that use the nick "jabmalassie" or something like this went into a lengthy description of "the truth about races" in the US and Canada. He was "enlightening" us with several truths such as "Italians aren't whites", "Portuguese aren't whites", "Spanish aren't whites", and explained the Aryan ideals and some other grotesque things your society was capable of creating. If that's taken into consideration then I would say non-whites are pretty much everywhere in Brazil. According to him these are things we all should know and respect. Yes, you are definitely crazy.
...
written by A brazilian, February 02, 2007
And the ironic thing is - on the international stage - Brazil likes to be exonerated for it's melting pot but it doesn't seem like an ideal that its media wants to pursue and we all know how powerful the media can be in manipulating mindsets... C'mon A brazilian, you are not blind...or are you?


Haha. Do you know what a good looking woman is like for a brazilian man? It's has absolutely nothing to do with whites. We would prefer more meat in certain areas than what we see in, for example, american movies, and more than any Gisele Bundchen has. How can a person in their right mind accuse Brazil of hiding non-whites!?

The media is powerful. But the so called "problems" are being augmented many times in here, such as racism. Racism in Brazil is nowhere close to what you find in the US and Europe today, in the other hand all the horrible facts he cites from Brazil are either from 18th or 19th century because if he used what happens today he wouldn't have enough to talk about and make his point.

Anyone living in Brazil would know that African culture is present as part of the brazilian culture. Instead of labeling it as something separated as an american would do, we just call it brazilian. Anyone arguing that people are persecuted or things aren't tolerated is just spreading misinformation.
...
written by Jorgao, February 03, 2007
To RIc,
"A basic principle of semantics is that given two terms, they do not mean exactly the same thing by virtue of the fact that they exist."

You began with a premise and I was taught to disregard that, " Most educated people know that, and instinctively reject arguments from those who begin with a premise." That must make me edemacated....wow... Your muddle of words are a sad attempt to confuse the average Brazilian or foreigner, but you only alienate and confuse yourself....

Yawwwwwwwwwn, anybody else boooored yet?

Commy, Socialist, these are simply terms the small minded use for people who suggest capitalism should be replaced.
Nossa! You really had to stretch that one in order to return the contradiction.
...
written by Ric, February 03, 2007
Thanks, a good stretcher is always an asset. And capitalism will not be replaced in Brazil any time soon. How many years has the Leão tried to shut down the informal economy?
...
written by Jorgao, February 03, 2007
" How many years has the Leão tried to shut down the informal economy?"

I dont know, enlighten me please.
...
written by Simpleton, February 03, 2007
Thank you A braz, now I'm not so upset.

"The media is powerful. But the so called "problems" are being augmented many times in here, such as racism. Racism in Brazil is nowhere close to what you find in the US and Europe today, in the other hand all the horrible facts . . ."

That's absotutely correct! Racism in Brazil is nowhere close to what you find anywhere but it is there just the same. No matter how hidden and muted it is, IT IS

That there is more or less intregalisation of racism with socioeconomic factors is a moot point. That does not mitigate it's detrimental effects on an individuals view of thier own self worth, aspirations and ultimate acheivements (except for a few like yourself perhaps). They don't have to hate others on one end of the spectra or the other end of the spectra to have been damaged by this. Matter of fact, they don't even realize that thier bias issues affect thier actions at all.

I can handle not being able to walk through certain neighborhoods at certain times just because of my color (things are the way things are in some parts of the world) but what has happened in / exists in Brasil presents an entirely different and equally evil a situation. You don't need anyone importing flavoratism / favoritism / activism (other than economic opportunity to those with less). None of those serve to finish eradicating what you deny exists.
...
written by Jorgao, February 03, 2007
Written by Ric: "A basic principle of semantics is that given two terms, they do not mean exactly the same thing by virtue of the fact that they exist."

Does pussy and vagina mean the same thing?
...
written by A brazilian, February 04, 2007
I can handle not being able to walk through certain neighborhoods at certain times just because of my color (things are the way things are in some parts of the world) but what has happened in / exists in Brasil presents an entirely different and equally evil a situation. You don't need anyone importing flavoratism / favoritism / activism (other than economic opportunity to those with less). None of those serve to finish eradicating what you deny exists.


I don't think you understood what I said. I didn't imply Brazil has racial problems but less, Brazil has no racial problems, what you may find though are some racists here and there, especially in some towns whose population is largely of european immigrants, but it's not enough to characterize the entire brazilian society as racist, and that it is a detriment to some people's development.

I still think it's perfectly possible for someone to improve themselves and have a good life in Brazil, but that would require a level of sacrifice and dedication not many are willing to pay. Many people, including the president of the Republic, that lived in poverty were able to improve. For instance, the president Lula didn't even have what to eat when he was a kid. Although I am not his fan and I think he is a corrupt politician, you have to agree that he achieved some good things in life.

That's a lot different from the US where race is a big issue, everyone is obssessed by it, and love labeling others just like animals.The whole argumentation that in Brazil "racism is stealth" is flawed, they say that because they can't see it, but they can't see it because it doesn't exist, not because it's hidden.
...
written by A brazilian, February 04, 2007
BTW, the racism a few practice in here is by no means the same kind of hate people practice in the US. They may not like blacks, but you won't see violence because of it. Even the racists here are more civilized, although it's still not good.
...
written by Simpleton, February 04, 2007
"Brazil has no racial problems, what you may find though are some racists here and there, especially in some towns whose population is largely of european immigrants, but it's not enough to characterize the entire brazilian society as racist,"

First of all I don't think saying that one society as a whole is THIS or the other society as a whole is THAT is what anyone other than you has been trying to say.

Secondly, I don't think it is possible for you to understand what I said. You clearly do not have the ability to see what is so deeply imbued in the societal levels different from your own nor to see what is from their perspectives. Yes, visit a small hamlet that is half Dutch and half African immigrants from some generation back and you will see no racism AND it does not exist there. Now take one child from each group that grew up together and went to the same schools off into a more upscale place and see what happens to thier job prospects. You can't see how insidious this problem is only because you somehow are not / were not subjected to it.
...
written by A brazilian, February 05, 2007
Yes, visit a small hamlet that is half Dutch and half African immigrants from some generation back and you will see no racism AND it does not exist there. Now take one child from each group that grew up together and went to the same schools off into a more upscale place and see what happens to thier job prospects. You can't see how insidious this problem is only because you somehow are not / were not subjected to it.


This ficticious situation means nothing, that's the problem with the people arguing in here. You will see differences of achievements in life even in brothers that were raised by the same family, lived their entire lives in the same house and studied in the same schools, simply because people are different from each other and have different goals and values in life. You can't measure "justice" that way!

This "affirmative action" should be renamed to "negative action" because it takes away the responsibility of the people from struggling for their own future and put the blame on someone else.

Before you come citing socio-economical differences that could cause some to have some ease in getting good education or not, remember that never in the history of the world every single human being was equal regarding to resources, some always had more than others. And although there are obvious things that should be fixed in Brazil to enable more capable people from the lower classes to ascend, this is not a racial issue.
...
written by bo, February 05, 2007
because it takes away the responsibility of the people from struggling for their own future and put the blame on someone else.



My god, that's ALL you have done here ever since you started posting!!!
Bo and his reading problems
written by A brazilian, February 05, 2007
Huh? Could you please be more specific?
...
written by Ric, February 06, 2007
Thanks, Bob, for the excellent and concise comment, "Huh?". Sums up your take on several issues. "To Quote A Brazilian, Huh!".
...
written by blackberry aka vonte', February 06, 2007
he right come andget well
To A bra ian
written by Simpleton, February 07, 2007
I see some day you must arrange to leave your airconditioned glass tower and go meet these ficticious Brazilians. Go to where they live. Sit and visit in their kitchen or back yard and drink a couple of beers with them and their grandmothers, mothers, bothers, sisters, children, grandchildren, friends and neigbbors. Hit the small time annual community fairs where two distinctly different immigrant heritages are celebrated side by side. Walk through the middle-lower to lower class burbs helping someone in their quest to find an apartment. When you are with them away from where they were born or grew up be very carefull to listen and observe and you might have a chance to see what it is you cannot believe exists. You can continue to write things off as "it's just a few" or it's all only classs or education related if you like but not until you have done this. Voce maraja. Eu nao.

"it's perfectly possible for someone to improve themselves and have a good life in Brazil, but that would require a level of sacrifice and dedication not many are willing to pay"

Do you understand the difference here? I am willing to commit the level of sacrifice and dedicate myself to helping some improve themselves. It is a good life if you give some back. Do you really think there is some kind of subset of "more capable people" from the lower classes that are worthy of enabling to ascend?

Affirmative action, racial or ethnic quota systems etc., aren't neccessary in Brazil and will likely produce more problems than they have ever cured anywhere. I'm not certain, but other than the sarcastics I don't think anyone posting has said anything positive about the Brazilian government toying with ideas of implimenting these things.
Seu Jorge, respeite o cara!!!!!
written by Dida, February 07, 2007
Sorry for posting in Brazilian. Those are excerpts from an interview with Seu Jorge, great artist brave man who does not shy from speaking about race. In the first part, he talks about the perception, in Brazil, that talking about racism is "paranoia". In the second, he compliments the black actor and singer Toni Tornado for admitting that there's blatant racism in Brazilian TV, and attacks a famous Brazilian black journalist for not admitting, whereas at the same time he asks why she had a obvious "glass ceiling" in her career. Link for the (fantastic, insightful ) interview: http://pedroalexandresanches.b...a-ema.html

Seu Jorge - Tem que ser preto para saber [ri]. Ou nordestino, ou homossexual... Tem que fazer parte de alguma minoria para entender como essa minoria se transforma em maioria sofrendo. Na hora do sofrimento a minoria se transforma em maioria. E aí, o que mais me deixa chateado não é o fato de as pessoas não estarem nem aí mais para nossas reclamações. O que me deixa chateado é ainda continuar o mesmo discurso de dizer que o preconceito é paranóia que está na nossa cabeça, na cabeça do negro. Como, se fomos nós que fomos para o tronco? Como, se fomos nós que depois de passar a escravidão ficamos aqui desempregados, porque nego preferiu dar emprego para os italianos e não dar para a gente? "Como vou dar emprego para esse cara? Eu não pagava ele, ele trabalhava para mim de graça, eu vou pagar esse f***********a por causa de quê? Porra nenhuma."

Então aí se deu o processo de marginalização do povo brasileiro, que pegou todo mundo: o pessoal da cidade, o pessoal da periferia, o pessoal das campinas, o pessoal das gerais, todo mundo. Pegou o Brasil. É um país enorme, muito difícil de administrar, com problemas institucionais em todas as rodas, e mais a omissão. A única coisa que me deixa chateado é essa mentalidade implantada não sei por quem, de que o negro é que é paranóico de achar que todo branco é racista. Não é o branco mais, o problema é que a gente tem uma visão ariana da coisa. Então vai ser o preto que vai dançar, vai ser o branco que gosta de preto, vai ser o homossexual, vai ser a mãe solteira, vai ser todo mundo, na cabeça dessa pessoa ariana. Ariano não é só aquele cara que acha que é raça pura, não. Ariano é aquele cara que acha que a situação dele é diferenciada, que ele é diferenciado perante as demais pessoas do mundo, perante a sociedade. Então eles se excluem, se reservam a um grupo. Quando têm algum tipo de poder ou manipulam alguma coisa que é de gênero coletivo, a coisa desanda mesmo. Se é dono de uma multinacional, ele tende a atrasar muito a vida de muita gente, mesmo que precise dessa gente para fazer sua vida, para serem seus funcionários. Ele não está nem aí para a humanidade, não é preocupação dele.

No brasil não cabe mais isso. O brasil é um país multirracial, de uma língua própria. A gente não fala mais português, a gente fala brasileiro. É um país que já deveria batalhar pela unidade de seu povo.

(...)

Toni Tornado fez um depoimento maravilhoso. Glória Maria fez um outro que foi horrível. Ele disse "só deus sabe como é ter a cor que eu tenho e trabalhar na televisão em que trabalho, só Deus sabe o que eu passo lá", falou isso chorando, com 76 anos de idade. O cara não estava fazendo sensação, com a idade que tem ele não precisa. E aí a comadre chegou lá, Glória Maria, "comigo é diferente, sempre fui muito respeitada e admirada". Mas nunca apresentou um programa dela, em 40 anos que está nessa televisão, a carreira toda. Nunca, nunca. E quer saber? Nunca terá. Porque não serve. Não faz o padrão global. E ela vem dizer que é mole trabalhar lá sendo preta? Não. Ela fez um discurso porque tinha lá governador e não sei quem. Mole não é, e nunca foi para ela. Mas reconheço, acredito que muita jornalista e menina negra deve olhar para ela como uma inspiração, "vou estudar jornalismo, ser repórter igual à Glória Maria". Mas era para ela ter conquistado um posto num lugar que ela merece, por tempo de serviço, pela inteligência que tem, pela qualidade que tem. Era para ela ter reivindicado esse direito. Ela não reivindica seu direito, então é omissa.
O Fim do Papo
written by Ric, February 08, 2007
Parece que ninguem quer brigar com Seu Jorge. Vai dizer que ele não sabe de nada? Vai chamar nomes? Ele fica chateado quando o branco diz que a discriminãção só existe na cabeça do preto. Mas não é isto que já ouvimos repetidas vezes aqui, a dicriminaçao no Brasil só na cabeça de gringos como o Dr. Marcos Wells?

Que o velho patrão não quer pagar um salário para aquele que outrora trabalhava de graça? Que os elites pensam que os seus direitos são uma herança divina? Que o nego é paranoico porque pensa que todos os brancos são racistas?

Vai dizer que ele naõ sabe o que está dizendo? Então diga.

Eu digo
written by A brazilian, February 08, 2007
Ele não sabe o que está dizendo.
A joke
written by A brazilian, February 08, 2007
Those are excerpts from an interview with Seu Jorge, great artist brave man who does not shy from speaking about race. In the first part, he talks about the perception, in Brazil, that talking about racism is "paranoia". In the second, he compliments the black actor and singer Toni Tornado for admitting that there's blatant racism in Brazilian TV, and attacks a famous Brazilian black journalist for not admitting, whereas at the same time he asks why she had a obvious "glass ceiling" in her career.


They attack even the blacks that disagree with them! Obviously that black journalist is intelligent, capable and, because of that, successful. She probably doesn't like to accuse others of her problems, and relies in her own capability to overcome whatever issue. She is a winner.

Such winners are bad for black activists because it shows they could do more.

Another interesting thing from this text is that he explains what is "Aryan". In a country like Brazil it is simply ridiculous to use that term with the same meaning as it has in the US or Europe, so he changes it!! Conveninent, isn't it? Now Aryan is no longer related to a "pure white", but something of a "philosophy of life" that even a black or mixed person can have! Hahahahahahahahaha.
...
written by Ric, February 08, 2007
Yes, I found that interesting and looked it up to make sure he was saying what I thought he was.
Milton Santos, on discussing racism
written by Dida, February 08, 2007
Sorry for the translation. Made in a hurry. Full interview here (in Portuguese): http://www.midiaindependente.o...8008.shtml

Permanent hypocrisy

"In the case of Brazil, the predominant mark is the ambivalence that the white society reacts when the topic is the existence of a black issue in the country. This mistake is double-sided and can be summarized by the writings of authors like Florestan Fernandes and Octavio Ianni, for whom what is ugly is not to have the prejudice – the ugliness is to make it manifest. Then, all discussion about or confrontation with the problems becomes a slippery situation, especially when the social and moral problem is replaced by dictionary references. Notice the time that is politically wasted by discussing what is prejudice, discrimination, racism etc, with the inevitable comparisons to the Americans and Europeans. Sometimes, it seems that the essential is to escape from the true issue: what is to be black in Brazil? Maybe this is one of the fundamental features of that problematization: the permanent hypocrisy, which results from a racial order that is spoiled in the base. To be black in Brazil is often to be the object of a cross-eyed, ambiguous gaze. This ambiguity marks the daily interactions, influences the academic debate, and the discourses repeated by individuals is also used by governments, political parties, and institutions. Those tiresome choruses become irritating, especially for people who are active, who are not only witnesses. There is always the risk of falling in the trap of unruly emotion, instead of treating the issue in an adequate and systematic manner."

Rest in peace, Milton. We salute you.
...
written by Dida, February 08, 2007
Just as a final comment. I think this little debate here translates what happens with the racial debate in Brazil. That is, the issue is taken hostage by a small group who brings it back to "is there racism in Brazil?", therefore turning it into nothingness. Instead of advancing the debate to "what can be done to end racism?" we become momentarily blind to reality, and start talking about specificities as they were proof of a trend or a dominant ideology in society. An artificial dichotomy is created, and the participants in the debate are forced to take sides (sometimes with the sad result of turning to personal attacks). But there isn't only two sides. There's people's lives. There's history. And yes, there's shame. And anxiety. And fear. Racism is painful, and it's painful to admit it.
...
written by Ric, February 08, 2007
Well, I think that´s reasonable. The crime is in the revealing of a phenomenon, not in its existence. How many times have we heard nationals respond when confronted, "Quem foi que ti disse?" They don´t want to treat the problem, but only get back at the one who blew the whistle.
...
written by Simpleton, February 09, 2007
Dida - don't appologize for posting in any language. Stuggling though these beats reading globo and has the benefit of responses from others. Always a couple of words show up that I think I've heard before but don't have a clue what they mean. Trying to find somehow / somewhere else to gain a tranlation will save for another day.

Thanks for the translation of Milton:
"what is ugly is not to have the prejudice – the ugliness is to make it manifest"

This concept helps me to be a little less disdraught over what I have observed that exists within those I have grown to love and other aquaintances. What is clearly implied by some but not overtly in thier words I have also found difficult to accept. But being it's the law, they would not do otherwise. Still, it's no fun to know these things. What was that story about the snakes? Potentially damaging or deadly either way, whether it is manifested openly or in hiding.
...
written by A brazilian, February 09, 2007
That is, the issue is taken hostage by a small group who brings it back to "is there racism in Brazil?", therefore turning it into nothingness.


Not a small group, and there's no racism in Brazil.
...
written by Ric, February 09, 2007
And no bombs were dropped on Baghdad, there are no c**kroaches in your kitchen, and it don´t rain in Minneapolis in the summertime. Right on.
...
written by Simpleton, February 15, 2007
Tank's Dick. Canuck U cume play wit Diorgie e Candi em Natal nects muncth? smilies/wink.gif
...
written by Ric, February 15, 2007
Wassa matter, canoa quebrada?
Very good
written by Eddie from the Amazon jungle, February 18, 2007
Thanks to Mark for his article. I always believe that this Brazilian racial democracy is a fantasy, nothing like foreign eyes to see some truths,spoken by somebody with native, black and white genetic stock ancestry.Au revoir que sabado eh dia de pernas de fora como dizia o saudoso Ibrahim Sued
Re: Para Lyle
written by Maximus IV, February 19, 2007
How did Black Americans get tosses into your rant! You 1/2 wit Brazilian ,and i'm being courteous up to this point--You couldn't carry the briefcase of an African American!
Para Maximus
written by A brazilian, February 19, 2007
Please try writing correctly next time because I can't really understand what you mean, and for the little I understand I see no correlation to the original topic.
Para Eddie
written by A brazilian, February 19, 2007
You are just another gringo trash trying to spread racial hatred globally, please get together with your brothers from the KKK and continue playing "black vs. white" in there. The rest of the world doesn't need racist scum like yourself.
Abe Razillion
written by Ric, February 20, 2007
Your´re holding back. Too moderate. Why don´t you just let it all out and tell them what you really think? It would be better for your condition.
...
written by mixed caucasian and afro brazilian woman (Mulata!), March 28, 2007

How is ridiculous these people that don't understand Brazil (I prefer to use the original BraSil), Brazilian people and their preferences,
keep your racism hate out of my beloved BraSil,
i know that is difficult for many of because most of "anthropologists", and NGOs about human "races"** (** after all the struggle to educate world population that humankind is a single race, and to use race to divide or classify people is our worst kind of racism nowadays in the world) depends on spreading racist shocking news as his source of attention and money revenues.
In Brasil we have even cases of a senator (Benedita da Silva) that explained that, during campaign, she will improve the live of Brazilian nation like this: "vote on me, because I have Black race, I am woman and I am from the slums (favelas)". later she proved be more than a exploiter demagogic populist specialized on take votes using the North-American old formulas of "positive action" laws, when was discovered a lot of crimes committed by her about corruption and nepotism .
ok, ok, maybe she doesn't put on a fraudulent way the relatives to receive a salary, more than 2000 (two thousand)% d Brasilian minimum wage, paid for us, Brazilian workers, just because they were from her same family, maybe because they were from the good "human race", d same "human race" of her...
it will be really nice if people stop to talk about human races.
but nowadays that many people got to make most of the populations think this way, dividing and classifying us not by our personal achievements, qualities and personalities
but by our "races". Benedita da Silva that nowadays is very rich, with more than one hundred times the average patromony of Brazilian workers (or how she prefers: the average of the non-black brazilians), in one of those people that established this racist classification. Once her personal life´s example is a show of corruption, nepotism, demagogy etc. she, because of her model of society that classify people by the d same external appearance and follow stereotypes, did a very bad contribution for d image of people like me.
on the other hand is Gloria Maria.
Although that stories that her career was almost deleted because of what she said about something that happened to Trancedo Neves, first more-or-less democratic president after Brazilian last Dictatorship period, supposedly he was killed by the generals,
Gloria Maria is a winner.
And she is winner probably because she didn't try to live exploiting the same condition of me: we are descents of black slaves, as Benedita da Silva exploits on a very profitable level.
that´s why my example is not Benedita da Silva or other bad people does not matter the color of them,
my example is Gloria Maria or other good people does not matte the color of them.
unfortunately many people like to judge the facts and arguments mostly by the "human race" of who is posting them,
so for the happiness of these people I put my "race"- label: "mixed Caucasian and Afro Brazilian woman (Mulata!)"
"A bad king always is very competent to find and punish someone of the tribe as the guilty for every problem on his realm, the good one knows that the answer is on his own acts and omissions", "African" Proverb, why not Proverb and final point?
...
written by other brazilian, March 28, 2007
very well, mulata
i was reading the other articles, and most of them did let me feeling real deception.
congratulations for your objective approach to the life problems,
congratulations for your wisdom.
I am a Brazilian with the same label than you, but it is time to put an end on these racist labels
Insightful, Sad, In Need Of Help From God, Yes That's The Human Race.
written by Jeane K, September 26, 2007
While some of the information here was quite insightful (Mixed race Caucasian & African Brazilian woman), I'm sad to say other comments (Para Eddie) are in much need of prayer and help from God. It's also very disheartning to see the way us Americans (even those who are in constant prayer for Brazil and other countries as well, and are truly appreciative of the things we've come to learn about your country, even if you didn't ask us to.) are almost always seen as evil monsters, who mean others no good will, and almost always seem to be a lost cause. Why lump all of us together with distaste and vileness, when it's actually very few who might have any distrust of things or persons they don't even know or understand?
"From gutter-most, to utter-most!"
Racism is prevalent everywhere on the face of this Earth, but what about those of us who are trying to fight it with everything in us, and set a different standard for those we love and our children?
I pray for those of you here (and all over the world), who harbor such hatered and ill will for persons (the world over) you've never even met (even a few doesn't equate to all), but who constantly pray for you and yours.
Praise God for not seeing skin color, only our hearts, and for having mercy on His creation, even when they don't have mercy on others.
GOD HELP US ALL. smilies/cry.gif
...
written by blkbrasil, August 04, 2008
I'm not sure about the history of race relations in Brasil but I can say as a African American that has spent a great deal of time in both northern and southern parts of the country I was a little shocked at the almost overt racism I encountered. Granted the vast majority of people in the country were nice, I did get the distinct impression that being black is undesirable and interracial relationships is frowned upon.
...
written by anonymous, December 27, 2009
Brazilians are racist: no shocking news to me. I lived there for 2.5 years and experienced numerous incidents of racism. It was common for Brazilians to casually group ethnic groups into stereotypical reductionistic categories that most Americans would find very offensive: all asians whether Chinese or Japanese or Tibetan or Vietnamese are referred to as "Japa" (Japanese); Jews are routinely despised and mocked; any fair-skinned non- Brazilian person is called "Aleman" (German); all middle eastern and far eastern people (Egyptians, Morrocans, Lebanese, Syrian, Pakistani, Iranian, etc) are lumped together as Turcos. And Blacks, the most despised of all, are referred to as monkeys. I had an student in Brazil who was a very brilliant man, a university researcher and physicist who was Black, which is quite a rare phenomenon in Brazil, since the schools primarily served the rich 1-2% of Brazilians, who are primarily white. While I came to the majority of my English classes prepared to teach this man a certain lesson about the language, he was much more interested in sharing with me endless stories about racism in Brazil. In fact while at the university, I would look around and I could see all white students, and yet the overwhelmingly majority of the cleaning ladies were Black, which is typical for the country. We had a dark brown skin nanny care for our toddler. In the US, I would see her as Black. And although we loved her, I was saddened to hear her say one day, that was repulsed because a black man was in love with her. She talked quite openly about how ugly she thought Black people were. Yes, this story doesn't surprise me, nor does all the denial from the typical jingoistic Brazilians who hide their head in the sand and can't acknowledge anything negative about Brazil. Only by honestly and openly addressing such issues will they ever be overcome.
...
written by rafa, April 15, 2010
Damn, this SPOT ON. You nailed it.

BTW, White Brazilian, er, mestiço, here.
Brazil is a nutcase of hypocritical racism
written by Pedro S. Tenmir, December 04, 2011
Deep down Brazil cannot accept Mother Africa...Since 1500 Brazil has been programmed to escape from such a fact. Vıva ( long live) a Mulata , and other manipulative - read exploitative - mistifications of ( sexual...)integration escapades, such claims of sexual liberation are just hypocritical fact to show - and how Brazilians have been programmed to pose - "show and show that - we, Brazilians, are not racists...How to prove it? Just look at our mulatas!!!" Really. And the majority ( not all of course ) of those convoluted English-speaking Brazilians, whose globalized "European" sense of snobbery scream to be the center or the world, such a neurosis is unmatched due to their ( deep-down) sense of irritation at not being arrived up there, yet - such a colonized-colonialist mindset makes Brazil a nutcase not only of hypocritical racism but also of a megalomaniac thirsty. Watch out for the day when Brazil, god forbidden, becomes the world superpower to imitate ( in the sex exporting business it has already arrived and succeeded already, at exporting hot wax and sex galore to the whole world. cheap sex: bandwagons of mulatas, hyperneurotic transvestites and whatever pleases the sex mafias...The demeaning market for Brazilian flesh is ınsatiable. Brazıl needs therapy - the fist step is to embrace Mother Africa once and for all....Easy to say.

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