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The Big Bang of Brazilian Pop Music, Tropicália, Turns 40 PDF Print E-mail
2007 - February 2007
Written by Marcelo Ballvé   
Tuesday, 20 February 2007 09:51

Brazilian pop music icons Caetano Veloso and Gilberto Gil seal it with a kissIt was exactly 40 years ago that the musical revolution that came to be known as Tropicália was introduced to Brazil, and the world.  Tropicália's genesis can be dated with some precision. It came when two musicians in their mid-twenties, Caetano Veloso and Gilberto Gil, courageously took to the stage at a 1967 song festival in São Paulo with compositions that they knew would sorely stress the boundaries of musical taste.

Their performance was epoch-defining. It was a kind of big bang from which much that came afterward in Brazilian pop music history evolved.

In part to needle what he expected to be a conservative audience, Veloso had selected an eccentric, long-haired band of Argentine rockers for his backup band, at a time when long hair was still nearly taboo, and delivered a song, "Alegria, Alegria", or "Happiness, Happiness", which electrified the booing audience into silence.

"Alegria, Alegria" was an unmistakable departure from Brazil's songwriting tradition. It was an erudite reworking of archaic genres (the song is set to the rhythm of a marchinha, an Afro-Brazilian form influenced by ragtime in the '20s) organized around a trinity of electric guitar chords.

The song's contemporary references to Coca Cola and television, and the absence of comfortable nostalgia or sentimentalism, marked it as an unmistakable artifact of the sharp-edged, uncertain present in a Brazil of military dictatorships and political ferment.

{mgmediabot}images/stories/2007/feb07/caetano_alegria_alegria.flv|false|400|300{/mgmediabot}

The next day, at the same festival, Veloso's partner in crime, Gil, sang an equally provocative tune, "Domingo no Parque", or "Sunday in the Park". The lyrics centered on a double-murder committed by a jealous lover, and the musical arrangement was clearly influenced by the Beatles.

The song also contained the ubiquitous sounds of a berimbau, a traditional, resonating instrument of African origin made of a gourd, a wooden bow and a metal string.  Gil was backed by a large orchestra and youthful São Paulo rockers Os Mutantes.  His performance was a novel melding of tradition and the cutting-edge.

{mgmediabot}images/stories/2007/feb07/gil_domingo_no_parque.flv|false|400|300{/mgmediabot}

The two musicians had intentionally set out to trigger a musical upheaval, and they succeeded. Their movement, Tropicália, went on to sweep away the petty divisions that up to then had divided Brazilian rockers from bossa nova die-hards and old school samba crooners. Tropicália would combine the cosmopolitan sensibilities and lyrical precision of rock with the entire geological depth of Brazil's considerable musical tradition.

Acquiring the Taste

The music of Tropicália (also sometimes known as Tropicalismo) has been with me nearly my whole life, though it has taken me nearly as long to fully acquire a taste for it. In the late '70s in Argentina, my parents, uncles, and aunts were still listening to the singers that had championed the movement during its short but frenzied peak a decade before in neighboring Brazil.

But it wasn't until I was myself living in Rio de Janeiro in 2000 that I began to make the music my own. At an outdoor market near my apartment in Copacabana Beach I bought Tropicália 2, an album Veloso and Gil recorded in the early '90s to celebrate the 30th anniversary of their friendship and the 25th anniversary of Tropicália.

I bought the album because I recognized the two names as belonging to perhaps the most famous of Brazil's many internationally known musicians, but the contents surprised me. This was not smooth Brazilian pop: the tracks were weird enough that many of them did not register beyond leaving an impression of general strangeness and what seemed to be swirling, mysterious reinterpretations of older musical forms.

The problem was that I was not familiar with these forms in their original version. Challenging as the album was, it had a discernible, melodic heart. It had a social conscience, as well (the political urgency of a track called "Haiti" was unmistakable), and it had many beautiful moments, such as the sublime, flute-laced intro to "Baião Atemporal".

It was this album which kept me hooked on Brazilian music from then on, though I pursued my interest only in a scattershot manner over the next half-dozen years.

Then, something decisive happened. By chance, I began listening to samba records, mainly to older artists from Rio's slums that had recorded a number of landmark albums in the '70s. These were people like Cartola, a gravelly-voiced singer, composer, and co-founder of the Estação Primeira de Mangueira samba school in 1928. He was rediscovered in the '70s, after surviving decades of total obscurity.

Though I didn't know it at the time, this rediscovery of Cartola happened in part thanks to the interest in musical tradition encouraged by Tropicália itself. My musical journey was beginning to double back on itself. Samba led me, by a maze-like series of artists and discographies, to bossa nova (samba refined and rarefied), and finally, to Jorge Ben.

I had arrived. Ben's 1976 album, África Brasil, was a revelation. I didn't need fluency in Brazilian rhythms to understand that this was a masterful remixing of centuries of musical history, delivered in the funky idiom of the '70s. Not only that, but Ben transformed his album into a kind of document for the black experience in Brazil, working Egyptian legends, slave history, and occult philosophical knowledge into his lyrics.

Every minute in the album yielded ideas and surprises. While it was shot through with the spontaneity of genius, it was also clearly a unified work, deeply meditated and stitched together with allusions and themes that made the album spin in my head for days, beginning to end, and end to beginning, like a gleaming, baroque Ferris Wheel.

I didn't know it when I first heard him, but Ben was a kind of godfather to the Tropicália movement. He was acknowledged as a precursor, worshipped and somewhat feared by Veloso and Gil, who sometimes trembled at the knees in the shadow of Ben's prodigious talents. It was Ben's earlier albums in the '60s that pointed the way to what Tropicália ultimately accomplished.

Veloso himself pays homage to Ben in his brainy 1997 book that tells the story of Tropicália's origins and meteoric rise: Verdade Tropical (published in English, Tropical Truth, A Story of Music & Revolution in Brazil by Da Capo Press in 2003). Veloso writes: "(Jorge) Ben became a symbol, a myth, a master for us."

The New in the Old

It's no surprise, then, that after listening to Ben's music, that I also was able to process, if not love, anything the Tropicália crowd threw my way, whereas before much of their music mystified me. Often weird, occasionally abstruse and absurd, always conceptually elaborate, the tropicalistas of the late '60s and early '70s were as much about ideas as they were about music.

With Ben's music as a sort of map, I could enjoy the rocked-out, feedback-heavy, portions of Gal Costa's two-headed monster of a live album (Fa-Tal/Gal a todo vapor); whereas before I could only stomach her more accessible and mellow acoustic set.

Now, I could make a kind of sense out of Jards Macalé's music. Macalé, a late, radioactive rhizome offshoot of Tropicália, was all about turning pop music inside-out with groove-happy deconstructions or haunting melodies that always seemed on the verge of fading into dissonance, but never did.

I still preferred Ben. A one-man music laboratory, he seemed to arrive at his inventions effortlessly, while Tropicália sometimes was heavy-handed (as Veloso himself admits in his book). Both were after the same thing, though: excavating the new out of the old, delivering a sound that, while filigreed with tradition ,was completely a new proposition.

{mgmediabot}images/stories/2007/feb07/ben_bebete_vaobora.flv|false|400|300{/mgmediabot}

In his book Veloso quotes Brazilian critic and poet Augusto de Campos on the concept of novelty. "The old that was once new is as new as the newest of the new," writes Campos, whose concrete poetry movement heavily influenced Tropicália.

Campos is offering more than just a tongue-twister with this formulation. What he's proposing is a different attitude toward the past than that espoused by the traditional posture of revolutionaries in the arts. Instead of throwing out the past, he suggests a more transversal view of cultural history in which the peaks of creative efflorescence across the ages are joined into a kind of timeless, immortal New.

Much the same concept was advanced by Veloso on the back jacket of his 1967 joint album with Gal Costa, Domingo: "I no longer desire to thrive on nostalgia for other times and places; on the contrary, I wish to incorporate that nostalgia into a future project." According to Veloso, this is as close as he ever got to putting the Tropicália manifesto into writing.

The Limits of Utopia

Of course, Tropicália's future was not to be limitless. In fact, the movement's real existence was rather brief: it was launched in 1967 and had run out of steam by 1972. Brazil's military government did what it could to suffocate a movement that consciously sought to create the soundtrack to Brazil's counterculture with lyrics that were critical of hypocrisy in the upper classes and the country's abysmal economic inequality. Gil and Veloso were imprisoned and exiled to London for several years, returning to record some final thoughts on Tropicália in 1972.

Apart from the repression its artists suffered, the movement's self-consciously vanguard approach gradually rendered itself irrelevant by having largely achieved its principal aim: clearing prejudices from the musical establishment.

Like many revolutions, its star faded once its message had seeped far enough into popular consciousness. What was left was an afterglow of radical acoustic open-mindedness in which MPB, or música popular brasileira, continues to bask today, to its great benefit.

Veloso writes an accurate eulogy for Tropicália in his book, evoking the grand aims and partial victories:

    "We had not attained socialism, had not even found its human face; neither had we entered the Age of Aquarius or the Kingdom of the Holy Ghost; we had not overcome the West, had not rooted out racism or abolished sexual hypocrisy. But things would never be as they had been."

In other words, Tropicália had sought a musical and social utopia and failed. Yet its failure is one of the greatest successes in the history of a great musical nation.

Marcelo Ballvé's work has been published in The New York Times, The San Francisco Chronicle, The Washington Post, The Christian Science Monitor, NACLA: Report on the Americas and other publications.  He is a contributing editor to New America Media and a recipient of a 2005 Inter American Press Association scholarship. In 2006, he obtained a George Washington Williams fellowship for new writers sponsored by the Independent Press Association. He lives in Buenos Aires.



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Comments (66)Add Comment
e harmony...you're kinda town!
written by bo, February 20, 2007
see the pic e??? You're kinda town bud!
Oh, Yuk!
written by Ric, February 21, 2007
Yuk. Yuk. Yuk.
Fools !
written by Old one, February 21, 2007
These Brasilians are fools. They dont understand that they will fail in whatever they do. Atleast they should realise it, after visiting this site, and reading the comments posted by ch.c. ( Earlier in this post : Similar animal is Abriu)

God has sent ch.c for the Brasilians. Stupid Brasilians dont realise it.

All Brasilians should be made to visit Brazzilcom every hour. They should be slapped on their asses, and made to read what ch.c has written by each passing hour. (Women should be made naked, while reading ---right ch.c?) .

All those who dont do the needfull, should be sent to iraq to die.

Lula should order to combine all comments of ch.c and give it a form of a text book, and it should be included at all levels of education in Brasil. Thereafter wait.....keep visiting this site..for future advise from ch.c...... mercy..god has sent him to brasil...let no words of his go waste...

For people who dont know about the great ch.c : wait, soon he will appear from thin air, and contribute his golden words to this post. if not, then this post is worthless, people should then move on to other posts, where lord ch.c has blessed with his golden words !
Waiting for the Great Ch.c
written by Ric, February 21, 2007
Have you been converted to a Pacific Island Cargo Cult?
Who is that?
written by The American Historian, February 21, 2007
Is the more European looking guy in that picture A Brazilian? You know what I think it is. Your identity has been exposed Mr. Head-in-the Sand.
Could of Gagged me with a Spoon
written by Ric, February 21, 2007
When I saw a picture of the two old farts, Leonid Brezhnev and Erich Honeker, kissing each other on the lips. They so enjoyed getting together. Then driving off together in a Zil, in Moscow, or a Trabant, in East Germany.
BAD MUSIC COMMUNIST BIG EGO = GILBERTO "THE FAG" GIL
written by Ludwig Van Beethoven, February 22, 2007
We had not attained socialism, had not even found its human face; neither had we entered the Age of Aquarius or the Kingdom of the Holy Ghost; we had not overcome the West, had not rooted out racism or abolished sexual hypocrisy. But things would never be as they had been."


Gay Hippies!!! damn what a nasty comment... Caetano and Gil are for people that think they understand music but knows nothing of it....This is Brazilian cultural garbage right? Only in Brazil this moron french sucker would become Minister of Culture....
...
written by Susan, February 22, 2007
This picture makes me sad for Brazil, have they really fallen so far into homosexual debauchery?
Is Brasil a Christian country, or a gay sex club?
Not a Christian Country Anymore
written by Ric, February 22, 2007
Yes, Susan, regretfully I must tell you that the debauchery is everywhere. Not a mile from here there are young men out on the streets dressed up like prostitutes. The Amazon women are invariably small and brown, these female imitations (San Francisco used to call them Female Impersonators, except that Carol Doda, mother of 8, was really a female)are tall and gangly looking. That´s how one can tell.
...
written by jabmalassie, February 22, 2007
That picture looks like to guys kissing I can't get too excited about that. To each their own. smilies/kiss.gif
Caetano Veloso and Gilberto Gil
written by Ludwig Van Beethoven, February 22, 2007
For those that do not know... the two homosexuals pictured are Caetano Veloso (Critic of Western Culture and Communist) and Gilberto Gil (Minister of Culture of the Federal Republic of Brazil). The two are famous for using women clothes and kissing other men in public.
No Debauchery
written by The American Historian, February 22, 2007
I think our friend A Brazilian will respond that these pictures are fake and part of a gringo conspiracy. So stop saying Brazil is no longer a Christian country, these are all lies......
...
written by bo, February 22, 2007
Historian;

I live in a rather "small" capitol of a state in northeast brazil, population about 600K. Education is a problem, many of the men here are very "machista", male chauvenists(sp?), to the 3rd degree, but the number of homo's is absolutely incredible. Matter of fact, I would put the city I live in up against any place in the world on a per capita basis for fags. They are simply everywhere. It's such a contrasting environment, you would have to see it. When I go to the mall in my city I hate going to the bathroom, they congregate there, I've even seen two men, adolescents, coming out of the same stall. Makes me sick, and angry, that they would use a public restroom, that children use as well, to go and have sex, f**king disgusting.
Same Stall
written by Ric, February 22, 2007
Wow, that´s gay.
Veloso
written by The American Historian, February 23, 2007
Let me tell you, if Veloso is a gay Communist, that guy would not be popular in Texas, where they have no gays or Communists. Wasn't Lee Harvey Oswald an at least bisexual
Marxist? I hope this guy doesn't decide to assasinate a President.
...
written by Ana P., February 25, 2007
Hmmm... people cannot kiss each other on the lips? That means you are gay? WOW. what an awesome way of thinking. I kiss people on the lips men and women with my mouth closed like Caetano is doing. He is very hippie so he is all about free love.
The other comments about gay people are just outrageous. gay people are the nicest people around.
Sorry but when say the American society are Puritan I am totally right, just read some of the comments. Gay people have the right to express themselves like anyone else, they are normally very peaceful people and dont harm you. People that hate on gay people are the ones that do and also those heterossexual convervative folks that rape kids and pretend their are good people in the public eye.
There's over half million sex offenders in the USA the last thing you should be worry is about two adult guys kissing or gay people that are over 18 and minding their own business.
Of the more than 600,000 convicted and registered sex offenders living in the United States, 100,000 are missing.
California is the state with the highest number of registered sex offenders at 109,000. Second is Texas, with 50,000. Ranking third is Michigan, with 40,000.
Only 1 in 3 sexual offenses against children are ever reported.
1 in 5 girls and 1 in 10 boys will be sexually victimized in some way in the United States before they turn 18.
Forty to 50 percent of those who victimize girls are family members, but only 10 to 20 percent of those who victimize boys are in the family.


PRESIDENT FOR LIFE
written by VINCENT SILVA, February 25, 2007
THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT THE MUSIC, DO YOU UNDERSTAND? ITS NOT ABOUT WHAT IS ON YOUR PETTY ASS HOMOPHOBIC MIND. GET YOUR MIND OUT OF THE TRASH CAN. FREE YOUR MIND AND YOUR ASS WILL FOLLOW(GEORGE CLINTON) . THESE ARTICLE IS ABOUT SOME PEOPLE WHO CHANGED THE COURSE OF BRASILIAN MUSIC. WOULDN'T YOU GUYS DO BETTER SURFING ON SKIN HEAD SITES. WHY DO YOU BOTHER READING THIS ARTICLE?
PRESIDENT GILBERTO GIL?? ARE YOU CRAZY VINCENT SILVA?
written by Ludwig Van Beethoven, February 25, 2007
THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT THE MUSIC, DO YOU UNDERSTAND?


The music is garbage... Tropicalia is garbage, all they did was try to copy stuff from the north (United States), and they did not do it well.... If we can not talk about the music lets talk about the idiots that wrote it... PLEASE READ CAETANOS COMMENTS... NASTY
EU
written by CARA DE MIERDA, February 25, 2007
YOU ARE ABSOLUTLY RIGHT LVB. YOU ARE THE ALL KNOW, SMARTEST, INSIGHTFUL PERSON TO GRACE THIS SIGHT. I WISH MORE PEOPLE THOUGHT LIKE YOU. I HUMBLE I FEEL IN YOUR CYBER PRESENCE.
American fags
written by A brazilian, February 25, 2007
Those fags would be better off in some skin head website, that's true.
...
written by bo, February 25, 2007
The other comments about gay people are just outrageous. gay people are the nicest people around.
Sorry but when say the American society are Puritan I am totally right, just read some of the comments. Gay people have the right to express themselves like anyone else, they are normally very peaceful people and dont harm you. People that hate on gay people are the ones that do and also those heterossexual convervative folks that rape kids and pretend their are good people in the public eye.


LOL, someone comments on comments made about gay people and then makes a blanket statement, "they're the nicest people around", truly funny.

So Anna, if you're guy, that makes you nice? Or is it vice-versa? smilies/cheesy.gif

Well Anna, I wish you would come to my city in northeast brazil, I'd take you into the mens public restroom, since I'm certainly it wouldn't be the first time, where naturally men and boys of all ages go, and the vast majority of the time it's filled with fags and at times even together in the stalls having sex. This is in a PUBLIC restroom in a shopping mall! Tell me, do you think that's right? Well, I shouldn't have even asked that, I'm asking someone that works in a "gentlemens club", errr, "gown club", sorry. You'd probably start charging admission. smilies/sad.gif
...
written by bo, February 25, 2007
There's over half million sex offenders in the USA the last thing you should be worry is about two adult guys kissing or gay people that are over 18 and minding their own business.
Of the more than 600,000 convicted and registered sex offenders living in the United States, 100,000 are missing.
California is the state with the highest number of registered sex offenders at 109,000. Second is Texas, with 50,000. Ranking third is Michigan, with 40,000.
Only 1 in 3 sexual offenses against children are ever reported.
1 in 5 girls and 1 in 10 boys will be sexually victimized in some way in the United States before they turn 18.
Forty to 50 percent of those who victimize girls are family members, but only 10 to 20 percent of those who victimize boys are in the family.


Tell me something Anna, how many do you think there are in brazil?? I mean, I'd really like to know because here in brazil it's almost impossible getting those kind of stats! And it's sure as f**k not because it doesn't exist!

I've been to numerous places, here in brazil, in the interior of states, in Bahia, Sergipe, Alagoas, Ceara, Pernambuco, where it is actually considered "normal", for an adult male of 20 up to whatever, to have sex with a 14 year old girl, and at times I've seen them even younger. And in their little world this is "normal", no one would ever think about reporting this to the police, matter of fact the local police know all about it, it's ACCEPTED as being NORMAL!

Sex offenders in the U.S. are kept a close eye on, and very specific and accurate stats are kept. Wonder why these stats aren't either kept, or aren't readily available here in brazil?? Hmmmmmmm.
...
written by Ana P., February 25, 2007
Those stats are available on the net just google. There's 600,000 sex offenders in the USA, they have files on them and they have to check with them on ongoing basis.
I don't know how many sex offenders are in Brazil but the number is not even close. Also the legal age for sex is Brazil is 14 years old. If a girl decides she wants to have sex, she can. It is her choice.
The sex offenders I am talking about in the USA are raping 3-4 year kids and the police are not doing anything about it. Don't you watch Dateline NBC"to chatch a predator" or the news?
Here in AZ they caught a convicted sex offender pretending to be a 12 year old boy and attending school. Explain that one?
When you people are so worried about gay people and gay marriage they should be concerned by that.
Gay people are very nice people in the general not just because they are gay. I am trying to say is: when was the last time a gay person harm you with his gayness?
As for people in the Northeast: Gay guys have the right to use the restroom as much as anyone else. Gay people won't attack you or others. I haven't hear of this ever. They have the freedom to come and go as they please.
As for me working as dancer: What does that have to do with me as person? Does that make me a bad person? Am I hurting anyone? Is dancing a illegal job?
I have better values than most people that claim to believe in Jesus but spread hate around and judge others.

On another note:
I love Caetano and Gil. A music deles e inspiradora. E bom para ouvir quando eu estou em casa relaxando depois de um longa noite de trabalho. Talves um banho de espuma e pronto. Eu esqueco que o meu pe ta doendo lol.


Ana P.
written by The American Historian, February 25, 2007
I have noticed that your written English has improved quite a bit since I saw your first post several weeks ago concerning Americans always asking you where you were from. I am just curious, but are you the same Ana P. or is someone editing your words? What is the deal?
Why I Ask
written by The American Historian, February 25, 2007
Look at your first sentence above which says "Those stats are available on....." A word like "stats" is a slang term used by Americans, not even that many Brits would use it, and especially not a Brazilian gal who came to this country only a few years ago. If it is you, are your husband or American friends editing or ghost writing for you?
...
written by Ana P., February 25, 2007
Sorry I was in a hurry before. My English is excellent not in writting but most of people say I speak it perfectly only with an accent. I have learned how speak on my own many years ago by reading and watching movies plus a little bit in High school. I speak 4 languages totalsmilies/smiley.gif

Impressive for a Brazilian monkey, right?
Ohhh
written by The American Historian, February 25, 2007
Now I have never referred to you or anybody as a monkey. I probably have more "monkey" blood in me than you do, so why would I say that?
...
written by Ana P., February 25, 2007
here for 4 years lol See... you think Brazilians can't speak English? typical American idiot mentality. I don't live in a Brazilian community and don't speak Portuguese in my everyday life. Hubby is at work(Busting his little butt). I am home since I am "off" work for sometime. My club has burned down a few weeks ago LOL.
Why Ana ?
written by The American Historian, February 25, 2007
Why so much invective Ana? I fear you are becoming the female version of Costinha. Anyway, good luck to you.
...
written by Ana P., February 25, 2007
I have gay friends which I love to death and it hurts me when people are saying things like this about them.

...
written by bo, February 25, 2007
...
written by Ana P., 2007-02-25 16:56:31

Those stats are available on the net just google. There's 600,000 sex offenders in the USA, they have files on them and they have to check with them on ongoing basis.
I don't know how many sex offenders are in Brazil but the number is not even close.



Well, if you don't know, how do you know the number is not even close??? Where are the numbers???


f**king retard.
...
written by Ana P., February 25, 2007
Yes, I am a retard smilies/grin.gif

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/documents/sex-offender-map.pdf
...
written by bo, February 25, 2007
Here in AZ they caught a convicted sex offender pretending to be a 12 year old boy and attending school. Explain that one?



what?? There must be news links!! A CONVICTED sex offender, so he must've be at least 25 years old while he was "in school", afterall, he's served prison time, and enrolled in a school as a 6th grader??? Who enrolled him?? Who acted as his parents to enroll him???

You're so full of s**t that it is f**king hilarious!

...
written by Ana P., February 25, 2007
Again I am crazy and a retard smilies/grin.gif

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=34548&in_page_id=34
...
written by bo, February 25, 2007
...
written by Ana P., 2007-02-25 17:20:18

here for 4 years lol See... you think Brazilians can't speak English? typical American idiot mentality. I don't live in a Brazilian community and don't speak Portuguese in my everyday life. Hubby is at work(Busting his little butt). I am home since I am "off" work for sometime. My club has burned down a few weeks ago LOL.



Not uncommon for strip clubs Ana. They're well known for drugs and organized crime. That kind of thing will happen when you work in a "gown club".

BTW, very interested in seeing up to date stats on brazilian child molestors and such. I mean, with so many gringos making "sex toursim" trips here, not to mention that the vast industry of prostitution, which brazil is one of the leaders worldwide as far as population is concerned, and brazilians themselves are actually far and away the #1 perpetrators of sex with prostitutes as well as with minors.....

As for people in the Northeast: Gay guys have the right to use the restroom as much as anyone else. Gay people won't attack you or others. I haven't hear of this ever. They have the freedom to come and go as they please.


Did I say anything about them using the bathroom??? LOL!

Are you retarded?

I said that they are having SEX in public restrooms where CHILDREN frequent!
...
written by Ana P., February 25, 2007
The club burned down was an accident lol Houses, clubs, bars have fire accidents. There's no organized crime or drugs in my club. You need a business license to work.
As for prostitution I am in favor of it. I think it should be legal in the USA. In Brazil most of girls work for themselves and minors selling their bodies are very few and if there's any, people are trying to do something about it. I think anyone over 18 should be able to do whatever they think with their bodies as long they are not hurting anyone.
As for sex in public, I have never see any gays doing that but I see straight couples doing it. Call the police! Even in Brazil they will be going to jail...
Very few Brazilians would engage in sex with children since most of guys are attract to a women's bodies not a kid.
Brazil has a lot of problems but most linked direct to poverty. what's the excuse of the 600,000 sex offenders in the USA?
To Ana and A brazilian, to the English speakers forgive me but I have to tell Ana P. and A brazilian what I think of them...
written by Ludwig Van Beethoven, February 26, 2007
Eu mereco, ter nascido em um pais de retardados.... A brazilian e Ana p**ana larga a mao de ser ignorante... voces so trazem vergonha para mim e todo o Brazil. O Brasil merece o Lula mesmo... o pais de merda... bando de vagabundos...
...
written by bo, February 26, 2007
The club burned down was an accident lol Houses, clubs, bars have fire accidents. There's no organized crime or drugs in my club. You need a business license to work.



Ana, you've just showed how completely ignorant you are. There are drugs at ALL strip bars, err, gown clubs.

Very few Brazilians would engage in sex with children since most of guys are attract to a women's bodies not a kid.



LOL...oh, really? How'd ya come about that assertion??

I mean, I don't know ANY americans that are attracted to children, hence, there must not be any child m******rs there....right?
...
written by Ana P., February 26, 2007
Not all clubs have drugs or organized crime. Yes some dancers do drugs but in the club you can't have them. You are required by the city to get a license to work on which if you ever get arrested, you will be doing time for a felony. It is very serious!
Of course there is always bad apples that don't care about their lives and will do drugs in the club but clubs have cameras all over them to watch for that. I bet you didn't know that? You are being watched the whole time!
There's child explotation in Brazil in very poor areas like I said this problem is directed linked to poverty and lack of resources but in the USA child abuse is being done by middle class people. Many are using chat rooms to try to lure kids into meeting them.
We should put our energy and hate towards people abusing innocent children not towards adult gay people or adult prostitutes minding their own business and not harming others.
Our priorities are truly screwed up if we thing gay marriage is more of an important issue than child rapists.
...
written by Ludwig Van Beethoven, February 26, 2007
A brazilian and Ana P.,

I recommend that you read this book, it talks about you:

Manual for the Perfect Latin American Idiot

Read it, you will like it....
...
written by Ludwig Van Beethoven, February 26, 2007
Here is a good review posted on Amazon.com:
Book The Pan-American Dream: Do Latin America's Cultural Values Discourage True Partnership With the United States and Canada (Paperback)

Reviewer: Fredo Arias-King (Clint, TX USA) -
When I first read The Pan-American Dream I lamented, "Darn, he beat me to it!" It had been my intention to explore the cultural roots of Latin America's underdevelopment by building on the classic works of Salvador de Madariaga, Jos Luis Borges (both of whom were close to my father), Fredo Arias de la Canal (my father), Robert Putnam, Octavio Paz, Luis Pazos, Jos Ortega y Gasset, Tocqueville, Domingo Sarmiento and, more recently, George Borjas (who was my professor). It just goes to show how few have written on the subject.
Harrison has written an excellent and ground-breaking book, and rightly does not mince his words. Those of us who have attempted to answer the question of why Latin America is firmly in the Third World realize how perceptive is the idea to link development squarely to culture. Many Latin American intellectuals, as Harrison points out, have attempted to do the same, as have, more controversially, some Americans such as George Grayson and, more recently, David Landes. Harrison's and Grayson's arguments are obvious to most Latin Americans, but it seems to be most unpopular with the American academic Left, as well as with some populist Latin Americans who want to perpetuate the victim myth.

Harrison should be awarded a medal by those of us proud Latins who want to fix the problems plaguing the noble countries of Latin America. He is playing the role of a psychotherapist, making Latin Americans see that the first step in fixing a problem is admitting it is there. Harrison's opponents in the leftist U.S. academic circles are doing a disservice to those of us attempting to build sensible, normal, businesslike and even friendly U.S.-Latin American relations. Fanning and encouraging the "victim" complex in Latin Americans does not augur well for such relations. Worse, it plunges the region into an orgy of self-destruction, since detrimental left-wing, protectionist and populist policies are justified with this fantasy of "victim" nationalism. Interestingly, Latins in the end do not respect those Americans or Brits that pander to their self-victimization, just as an obnoxious and rebellious teenager does not respect passive and apologetic parents. Just ask Argentine president Carlos Menem, who lovingly called Margaret Thatcher "the mother of Argentine democracy" (Russians for that matter are the same-Ronald Reagan is the most popular U.S. president in Russia).

Harrison's repeated association of Latin America's problems to "Catholic-Iberian" culture is the one small shortcoming of the book. One wonders what would have become of Latin America had it been conquered instead by Catalan settlers (whose parliament, founded in 1283, precedes Westminster by 12 years), or perhaps by those vestiges of Spain's more liberal tradition (the king-vetoing fueros) suffocated by Ferdinand of Aragon in the late 1400s. Those were also Catholic, and also Iberian. Moreover, contrary to what Max Weber would point out, there are glaring examples of backward Protestant cultures (Guyana, Suriname, Jamaica) and, conversely, of modern Catholic ones (the Czechs, who are, according to Borjas's research, the most successful European immigrants in the U.S.). The stubborn sense of justice and iron principles of the Irish seem opposite to what Harrison calls the "flexible ethical code" of the Latin. Yet they are also Catholic. Perhaps then, it is not so much a "Catholic-Iberian" culture, but simply "Iberian," or even an "un-representative minority of militaristic Iberians dispatched by Machiavellian Ferdinand and then Austrian dynastic overlords to conquer the Americas."

...
written by Ludwig Van Beethoven, February 26, 2007
Aside from that, Harrison's stab at the cultural roots of Latin America's history of self-destruction and irresponsibility is right on target, and he should be commended for that largely thankless effort. And those of us preoccupied in putting Latin America's worst days behind it should say, "Gracias, Seor Harrison." A prominent intellectual named Nina Yomerowska caused the same necessary shock therapy when she observed that the main cultural weaknesses of the Mexican are "irresponsibility, indolence and immorality," and of the Spaniard, "envy, soberbia [intense arrogance] and egoism." Indeed, Harrison's book may be pillaged by the irrepressible Left and by "poor little me" nationalists, but it is required reading at a class on culture and global management at the Harvard Business School.

One interesting point was what Harrison calls his "trauma theory of cultural change," and its implications for international relations. That is one point Harrison should continue to dwell in. I may add that Sigmund Freud discovered something similar when he noticed that children that were suddenly frightened by an animal, began to imitate that animal. He called it a "totemic reaction." Harrison rightly observed that countries imitate a foreign aggressor that humiliated them. Maybe that is why Latin Americans have not imitated the United States more broadly-precisely because the U.S. has been, in the words of former Costa Rican president and Nobel Prize laureate Oscar Arias, "the only benevolent empire in history.

http://www.amazon.com/Pan-Amer...F8&s=books
...
written by Ana P., February 26, 2007
voce nao e brasileiro! E um mentiroso!

This book is about Mexicans not Brazilians lol. Brazil and Mexico are two different countries smilies/wink.gif
Guide to the Perfect Latin American Idiot
written by Ludwig Van Beethoven, February 26, 2007
Link to the Guide to the Perfect Latin American Idiot (Paperback)
by Mendoza/Montaner/Llosa (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Perfect-Latin-American-Idiot/dp/156833236X/ref=pd_rhf_f_3/002-3203646-7751219

Classical Latin America Idiots:

Che Guevara
Luiz Inacio "LULA" da Silva
Caetano Veloso
Gilberto Gil
Chico Buarque
A brazilian (Abe)
Ana P.
Garcia Marques
Fidel Castro
Raul Castro
Hugo Chavez
Nestor Kitchner
Evo Morales

Everybody related to PT, PSDB, PMDB and most Brazilian Political parties, I can not think of 'one' decent party....
In fact I would say that the great majority of Latin America would be classified a perfect Latin American Idiot
LVB
written by A brazilian, February 26, 2007
Is there any manual to be a perfect american idiot or do they tend to be genetically inclined to idiocy?
TO A BRAZILIAN AND ANA P. e a todos os Brasileiros THANK YOU UNITED STATES OF AMERICA , YOU ARE NOT ALONE
written by Ludwig Van Beethoven, February 26, 2007
Yes, these "American Idiots", landed on the moon, won WW1 AND WW2, Invented the Internet (something you, the 'Brazilian genius' use everyday), had people such as Martin Luther King Jr., Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Edison, Ben Franklin, .... The list is to long. These idiots also have the best University system in the world. Oh, I forgot to mention, they were also the people that made the industrialization of Sao Paulo possible.... Yes, a Brazilian, this people are really stupid, we Brazilians are the smart ones, look at our country.... we are the all powerful BRAZILIANS, our country is a model to humanity, we live in a society that has no racism, no crime, no political corruption, the best culture, we are truly great people compared to this idiotic Americans....THE COUNTRY OF THE FUTURE...(by the way, the guy that made this phrase committed suicide) And do you know what is truly sad to me... The United States from its creation tried to help Brazil overcome its problems. The United States was the only country that supported Brazil during the Minas Revolution (Poor Tiradentes, killed by his fellow brazilians)... they supported us, what do we do... we make heroes out of the Soviet Union, Iran, France, Venezuela, Cuba... we are a terrible country, the Americans have to realize that Brazilians do not like them because we are envious of what they are... we in fact wanted to be just like them, and not this failure that we are... Thanks for all the Americans that post here and try to show this ignorant people the reality, I believe all of you are wasting your time, but thank you.... HAIL TO THE GENIOUS ‘A BRAZILIAN’ THE PRESENT AND THE FUTURE OF BRAZIL.....Eu com tristeza, como um Eca de Queiroz dos brasileiros vejo a ignorancia de meus conterraneos e lamento.... E o Brasil continua como sempre "Boçal e Soberano"
Mr. Beethoven
written by The American Historian, February 26, 2007
I am speechless good sir. You have said it all. I may not have to make another posting
at this site. And Ana, you have greatly disappointed me.

What is so horrible about receiving some instruction from the USA. So what, the Americans learned from the British, who learned from the continental Europeans, who learned from the Romans and Greeks and the societies of the Near East. Don't listen to any criticism Brazil, but remember, Bangladesh and Haiti are gaining on you.
...
written by bo, February 26, 2007
...
written by Ana P., 2007-02-25 20:14:34

Not all clubs have drugs or organized crime. Yes some dancers do drugs but in the club you can't have them. You are required by the city to get a license to work on which if you ever get arrested, you will be doing time for a felony. It is very serious!
Of course there is always bad apples that don't care about their lives and will do drugs in the club but clubs have cameras all over them to watch for that. I bet you didn't know that? You are being watched the whole time!


Oh really Ana?? Ana, I'm american, was born there and lived there my first 34 years of life, you don't need to tell me about "felonies" in america, and how they're "serious", I'm quite aware of the realities in the U.S., but thanks. And Ana, you made a ludicrous statement, you equivalate the act of getting a "license" to strip, with a felony. As if when you're caught with drugs, even if it wouldn't be a felony, as in possession of marijuana, since you have this "stripper license", lol, it is then a felony. Ana, wow, that's all I can say. The silicone went has leaked and went to your brain.

And Ana, those cameras in the strip clubs serve several purposes, but first and foremost is the protection of the club in case of a robbery. And besides that, it's also to keep an eye on the "girls". As "strippers" certainly aren't known for their high "morality" and have certainly been known to roll a john or two, not to mention steal from the club. Ana, I'm sure I don't have to tell you this, I would certainly hope I wouldn't, but you won't find too many "honest, nice" people in strip clubs, it's just not a place they normally congregate. But you will find drug addicts, users, dealers, you will find thieves, rapists, and other sexual deviants, and you will also find people that are involved in other facets of organized crime, mix in a few college students with hard-ons, a few professional athletes, and a few businessmen looking to buy a piece of ass, and there you pretty much have your strip bar demographics.
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written by bo, February 26, 2007
...
written by Ana P., 2007-02-25 17:51:24

Yes, I am a retard smilies/grin.gif

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/documents/sex-offender-map.pdf



Well, thanks for admitting it. How can one person make a comparison concerning a "statistic", about whatever, when he doesn't have the statistics for both countries? You've shown you have the statistics for the U.S., yes, the U.S. keeps detailed statistics, on just about anything and everything, no matter if it's not flattering to the country or not. And Brazil?

I guess I have to spell it out......W-H-E-R-E A-R-E T-H-E B-R-A-Z-I-L-I-A-N S-T-A-T-S ?
To Bo
written by Ana P., February 26, 2007
You have to get a license to strip issued by the City Hall on which you ever get caught prostituing you will be going to jail for a felony since you have to sign an agreement before getting the license to work as dancer. As for drugs the people that goes and work at strip clubs, you are dead wrong and you have the typical Puritan American mentality that believes that because we take our clothes of, we have no morals and are bad people.
I have never see a drug dealer at my club or a thief, most of girls(dancers) are white female of middle class families either attending to college or supporting their families since they have children to raise. Waitresses as well from middle class families working two jobs trying to make it or save for future or to buy a house.
The number of drug users dancers are low and they don't do at the club since they can't. Cameras are there to keep us save as well when comes to guys trying to grab us or hurt us, etc
All of my regular customers are middle class or rich over 40 businessmen or retired that are very nice and respectful to me and would never set they feet into a enviromment you decribe above since they do have families and property to care for and much to lose.
As for the silicone comment: I went in for silicone implants not bran removal! I am neither dumb or naive. I am just doing something I feel comfortable and safe doing it while I have a lot of time to spend with my son instead of having him call the babysitter "mommy" while I bust my ass at an dead end job that doesnt pay sh*t.
Morals are something you are born with something taught by your parents not measure by what type of work you do. In Brazil I have met drug dealers that have higher morals that a so called Christian. It is something that can't be bought same goes with character and respect for yourself and others.
It appears that you, Bo don't have any of that even sadder you don't have any love and consideration for your wife or kid(which you clam to have) and I doubt you do. If you were really married to a Brazilian and live in Brazil you would never say such of things.
And Ana...
written by bo, February 26, 2007
as far as your "child molestation", or "sex offenders" horses**t, how in the world can you throw stones being a brazilian??? I mean people travel from all over the world to brazil to have sex with children. You certainly don't find "sex tourists" in the U.S., wonder why that is??

Guess you missed the huge bust of child pornography here in brazil that happened within the last 6 months. It was a worldwide pornographic ring. Also, here's a little tidbit of info for ya.

U.S. Immigration Makes 6,000 Arrests in Two-Year Operation

Operation Predator targets sex offenders, human traffickers

An exploited boyMore than 6,000 predators who target children have been arrested since the July 2003 launch of Operation Predator by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the agency announced in a July 19 press release.

The initiative has also led to the arrests of about 1,000 suspects overseas after U.S. officials shared information with foreign authorities about their investigations into international sex tourism, Internet child pornography and human trafficking.

About 85 percent of the arrests have involved foreign nationals who have been convicted of child sex crimes. Their criminal activity makes them ineligible to maintain legal status in the United States after they have served prison sentences for their crimes. More than 2,100 have been deported.

http://www.embaixada-americana.org.br/index.php?action=materia&id=3604&itemmenu=
To Bo:
written by Ana P., February 26, 2007
Apparantly they are coming to the USA to have sex with children:

http://www.californiarepublic....iends.html
Ana, quit thinking, it gives you a headache...
written by bo, February 26, 2007
those aren't "sex tourists", those are illegal aliens my dear scholar. Illegal aliens that are "living" in the U.S. and committing sex crimes. You see Ana, you've just demonstrated a very good point. Although there are americans that commit sex crimes, as in ALL countries on planet earth, but Asia and Latin America in particular are "exporting" their dregs and criminals along with others that are law-abiding.

Another very good point to get rid of illegals and keep them out!

BTW, you're in the states aren't ya?? It's only 5:30 am there, whatcha doing up??? smilies/grin.gif
...
written by bo, February 26, 2007
I have never see a drug dealer at my club or a thief,




Well I have to say that I'm shocked! Because they're easily identifiable, they always wear a big neon sign on their ass that says, "I'm a thief", or "Have some Coke and a Smile".
...
written by bo, February 26, 2007
Morals are something you are born with something taught by your parents not measure by what type of work you do. In Brazil I have met drug dealers that have higher morals that a so called Christian.



LMAO!!!!


WTF??


Yeah, those drug dealers are real nice people! They destroy peoples lives and if the product their selling doesn't kill them directly, getting involved in the business will. Real contribution to society those drug dealers. Wow Ana, not naive?? Not dumb??

Ana is living proof that silicon implants actually reduce the size of ones brain!
...
written by bo, February 26, 2007
It appears that you, Bo don't have any of that even sadder you don't have any love and consideration for your wife or kid(which you clam to have) and I doubt you do. If you were really married to a Brazilian and live in Brazil you would never say such of things.



Huh?? If I really lived in brazil I wouldn't say what? That there are drugs in strip bars? Organized crime? People of low morality??? I mean those are all pretty much given's to anyone that knows anything.

And for any woman that has any intelligence whatsoever, anyone that is more than a "piece of flesh", to "decide" to strip instead of getting a legitimate job, well, that tells a lot about their morality, beliefs, convictions. Maybe you don't have a problem with your child growing up knowing that his mother goes to "work" while drunken idiots throw dollar bills and pay 20 bucks for a table dance to cum in their pants while rubbing up against his mother's ass, but that's your life.

BOL with your kid when he gets older, you'll have you're hands full.


...
written by bo, February 26, 2007
The number of drug users dancers are low and they don't do at the club since they can't.



Yes, I'm quite sure, all drug addicts that I've ever known are sticklers for rules.


All of my regular customers are middle class or rich over 40 businessmen or retired that are very nice and respectful to me and would never set they feet into a enviromment you decribe above since they do have families and property to care for and much to lose.


I'm certain!! Those wholesome, moralistic Pat Roberts types would NEVER step their foot into a "strip club" where there were drugs! Only the "drug free" strip clubs for this type of man. smilies/wink.gif

As for the silicone comment: I went in for silicone implants not bran removal!


Quite certain of that, it's a serious crime in the U.S. for a doctor to perform a redundant surgery! smilies/grin.gif

Morals are something you are born with......


So it's a genetic disorder?

To Bo
written by Ana P., 2007-02-26 06:11:48

You have to get a license to strip issued by the City Hall .....


I'm curious, how does one go about getting this license? I mean, what are the qualifications?? Hang upside down on a brass pole for 15 minutes while holding 150 dollars of various values of currency in your mouth? Who are the judges? Are they city councilmen? Are they clients? If so, are there ever any problems of conflicts of interest?
No child molestors in Brazil eh Ana??
written by bo, February 26, 2007
Then howcome so many child prostitutes? Guess it's not molestation as long as they're receiving money huh?

Brazil
PROSTITUTION

The concentration of wealth and bi-polarized economic situation in Brazil results in a situation of marginality which leaves 20 million people indigent and more than 40 million children and adolescents needy or abandoned. This situation throws more children into prostitution every day. ("Use of children for prostitution and a Congressional hearing in the State of Paraiba," NGOAEs/ Interinstitutional Network Against Child Prostitution and Sexual Abuse, 6 April 199smilies/cool.gif

In over 30 municipalities especially the larger cities, there is a noteable increase in prostitution among children under the age of 14. ("Use of children for prostitution and a Congressional hearing in the State of Paraiba," NGOAEs/ Interinstitutional Network Against Child Prostitution and Sexual Abuse, 6 April 199smilies/cool.gif

In 1998, the economic and environmental crises such as the eight-month drought that has threatened 10 million people with hunger has led children into prostitution for their families’ survival. (Phil Stweart, "Brazil drought spurs child prostitution," Reuters, 23 June 199smilies/cool.gif

THEY REMOVED THE PEDOPHILE POLITICIANS CAUGHT FROM THE REPORT!! Naturally!
written by bo, February 26, 2007
Official Response and Action

Sections of a report that suggested actions against child sexual exploitation and implicated public figures, particularly Deputies and Assembly functionaries were removed from a 1998 Report. The Comissao Parlamentar de Inquerito carried out 17 public hearings, took testimony from government entities, NGOs, church organizations, human rights commissions linked to the problematic of children and adolescents, police officials, judges, functionaries of the state attorney general's office, accused individuals and family members of victims. It established the existence of organized networks within and outside of the state of Paraiba, linking the two major cities of Joao Pessoa and Campina Grande with cities in neighboring states. The Report identified extremely serious cases of sexual exploitation in Joao Pessoa, involving in particular Maria Celestina Ribeiro de Barros and Itapuana Soares Dias—both named previously in a similar Comissao Parlamentar de Inquerito carried out by the Joao Pessoa City Council in 1993. 30 municipalities, especially the larger cities, had significant increases in prostitution among children UNDER the age of 14. (Interinstitutional Network Against Child Prostitution and Sexual Abuse, March 23, 1998, NEWS FROM BRAZIL)

The Brazilian government is spending $1.7 million on rehabilitating an estimated 10,000 children in prostitution in the Amazon. The project is aimed at keeping children off the streets, (Social Security Network, "Brazil spends $1.7 ml on helping child prostitutes", Reuters, 12 June 199smilies/cool.gif (*Wow! A whole 1.7 million dollars for 10,000 people!)

In 1997 the government of the State of Mato Grosso do Sul decided to set up commissions in all municipalities to combat the sexual exploitation of children and adolescents. ("Child prostitutes used in 'sex tourism' in Pantannal," SEJUP #287, 17 September, 1997)

*my comment
Fishing and Hookers?
written by bo, February 26, 2007
Prostitution Tourism

Brazil has one of the worst child prostitution problems in the world and a thriving sex tourism industry has developed in more impoverished states like Bahia and Amazonas. (Social Security Network, "Brazil spends $1.7 ml on helping child prostitutes", Reuters, 12 June 199smilies/cool.gif

Brazil is one of the favored destinations of paedophile sex tourists from Europe and the United States. ("Global law to punish sex tourists sought by Britain and EU," The Indian Express, 21 November 1997)

In Porto Murtinho, a town of 11 thousand, there are six locations of prostitution. In Coruma (pop. 87.8 thousand) 16 prostitution establishments were found. In Campo Grande, (pop. 600 thousand) there are 12 prostitution establishments where over 100 young girls from Sao Paulo, Goias, Parana, Minas Gerais, Paraguay and Chile are prostituted in sex tourism. Tourists buy girls for periods of one or two weeks. This practice also occurs in the municipality of Coxim where tourists staying in fishing campments hire young girls. (Titular Council for Children and Adolescents, "Child prostitutes used in 'sex tourism' in Pantannal," SEJUP #287, 17 September, 1997)

A recent survey identified 65 localities of prostitution in six cities in the Pantanal region. Many of the prostitutes are young girls. Highlighted is the link between fishing and prostitution. (Survey by the Ministry of Justice, UNICEF and the government of the state of Mato Grosso do Sul, "Child prostitutes used in 'sex tourism' in Pantannal," SEJUP #287, 17 September, 1997)

So be careful ladies when you're hubby tells you he's going on a "fishing trip"! He may catch more than a few peixe vermelho, he may catch a "dose"!
Interesting
written by Bryan, February 26, 2007
Interesting article about an important event in Brazilian musical history. Not sure what the picture is about except that these guys are still defying sterotypes and creating controversy even today.
To Bo:
written by Ana P., February 27, 2007
Child prostitutes are a fruit of the growing poverty of the country as well other crimes like murders. People are desperate and hungry and will do anything to survive. When someone is living in un-human conditions they will turn into animals. It is a natural instinct of humans.

What's the excuse of sex predators in the USA? or child trafficking or murders? Since the country is so perfect those things should exist at all.
Again Bo you are a liar and you don't have a Brazilian wife or daughter and don't live in Brazil.
...
written by bo, February 27, 2007
To Bo:
written by Ana P., 2007-02-26 22:59:02

Child prostitutes are a fruit of the growing poverty of the country as well other crimes like murders. People are desperate and hungry and will do anything to survive. When someone is living in un-human conditions they will turn into animals. It is a natural instinct of humans.

What's the excuse of sex predators in the USA? or child trafficking or murders? Since the country is so perfect those things should exist at all.
Again Bo you are a liar and you don't have a Brazilian wife or daughter and don't live in Brazil.


Well, I've consistantly showed that not only are you one of the stupidest people on the planet, but you're also a liar. So it doesn't make much sense in responding to you. And, just so that you know, the PREDATORS of these crimes in brazil are NOT poor people! Notice how the brazilian politicians were excluded from the reports?? Are brazilian politicians "poor" in brazil?? Well they certainly do take advantage of their own people don't though? f**k them socially, and then f**k their 12 year old daughters!
Survival
written by Ric, March 01, 2007
Surely there must be more to it than that, Ana P. Ever hear any stories of Jewish girls selling themselves out to escape from Hitler?
...
written by Dana, March 05, 2007
well, if Bo could prove something he says but he just won't, duh. I think he must be some American authority in rio de janeiro or brasilia.
...
written by Ric, March 05, 2007
Don´t know about that but I think he can sing like a frog.

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