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Cida - A Brazilian Entrepreneur PDF Print E-mail
2007 - April 2007
Written by John Fitzpatrick   
Thursday, 05 April 2007 18:30

Inside a Brazilian bus Most workers in Brazil work in the informal sector. The country's leading expert in labor issues, Professor José Pastore, estimates that 60% of the workers in the private sector earn their living informally. This amounts to 46.5 million people. This system means that workers have no social security or basic rights and that the state is deprived of revenues.

These informal workers cover a wide range of jobs and situations. Some, such as domestic maids, have fixed hours and pay and may spend decades with the same employer but, as they are not registered with the Labor Ministry, they are outside the system.

Others, such as farm laborers, frequently work in such miserable conditions that the law regards them as being akin to slaves. Others live from day to day, selling snacks or pirated CDs or even themselves on the streets. Of these informal workers, Professor Pastore estimates that 45% work for themselves - that is around 22 million people.

This article presents one of these self-employed people, a woman called Cida whom I spoke to as she was working on a busy bus route in São Paulo's Avenida Nove de Julho. I doubt if every word she says is true but I am inclined to believe most of her story

Cida is the kind of woman a middle-class Paulistano would pass in the street and assume was a domestic maid. She is about 35 and so thin that if she lost a couple of kilos she would look ill. She is quite pretty, with a clear skin, large brown eyes, a delicate bone structure and fine straight dark hair.

She wears no make-up or earrings but her fingernails and toenails are varnished a garish red. When she smiles she exposes a couple of broken and misshapen front teeth and the pretty picture cracks a bit. She comes originally from the Northeastern state of Bahia. Her features show a mixture of white and Indian ancestry rather than the more common African characteristics found there.

She is much more articulate than most women from her background and not a bit shy talking to a foreigner. She attended school until she was about 13. Although she can express herself well and is forthcoming and confident, her handwriting is a childish scrawl, more like a graph than a script, full of craggy peaks, plunging downstrokes and long curves that make it look as though she had scratched the words on a wall with a nail rather than written them on paper with a pen. It is difficult to read but this is not of any great importance because most of the people who try to read her writing are semi-literate.
   
On leaving school she started doing odd jobs in a restaurant in a town outside Salvador and eventually became a cook. Like millions of other Northeasterners, she came to São Paulo in search of a better life. She has been in the city for 16 years and, in that period, has faced much hardship.

She married and set up home in a favela in the Santo Amaro area where she still lives. She gave birth 11 years ago to a daughter who was disabled and epileptic. She continued to work as a cook but after a while had to give up to look after her daughter. The girl is often admitted to hospital and requires constant attention and regular treatment with drugs. Cida says she needs 340 reais a month for medicine and drugs - around US$ 170.

She also says her husband was killed by a stray bullet in a shoot-out between police and drug traffickers which left six people dead. Her husband was walking past a hill where the firefight took place and was hit. She says he was not involved in trafficking. 

She has another daughter, aged three, who was in her arms as we spoke. She says this daughter is normal although the child was in such a deep sleep that I wondered if she was all right. Although buses were thundering past only a couple of feet away the girl was oblivious to any noise.

Cida said her daughter was just tired as she had risen very early that morning. The girl stirred for a moment, looked around and then collapsed back to sleep again. I wondered if she had been drugged as Cida uses her as a marketing tool in her work, which is selling sweets.

Along with the girl, she carries a big plastic bag full of candies and chewing gum. When she enters the bus she hands passengers a scrap of paper scrawled with an account of the plight of her handicapped daughter and the prices of the sweets - the most expensive cost 50 centavos and the cheapest are 10 centavos.

Most people, at least, accept the paper and read or try to it while others refuse and ignore her. It is rare not to sell something. She works five or six hours a day and earns about 600 reais, about US$ 300, a month.

That may not sound much but is in fact a pretty good gross income and compares with the minimum wage of 380 reais a month. In November and December she sells more and can earn as much as 1,000 reais. From this she has to pay for stock of sweets which she buys from a shop in Santo Amaro and her daughter's medicine.     

She uses the buses on this particular route because they cross the city and are always busy. She avoids buses which are crowded so she has room to move inside and try and make a personal contact with passengers. This means she avoids the rush hours and concentrates on the middle part of the day. She says the drivers let her enter free of charge as several of them live near her home and know her daughter.

Cida sees no chance of ever going back to regular work as a cook and for the foreseeable future her life will revolve around the bus route between Santo Amaro and the Bandeirante terminal in downtown São Paulo.

John Fitzpatrick is a Scottish writer and consultant with long experience of Brazil. He is based in São Paulo and runs his own company Celtic Comunicações. This article originally appeared on his site www.brazilpoliticalcomment.com.br. He can be contacted at jf@celt.com.br.

© John Fitzpatrick 2007



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Comments (165)Add Comment
workers have no social security or basic rights and that the state is deprived of revenues.
written by ch.c., April 06, 2007
But Brazil has still.....A VERY HIGH DEFICIT IN ITS SOCIAL SECURITY DUE TO ITS GENEROUS SPENDING.....AND WELL BEING...FOR THEIR CIVIL SERVANTS EMPLOYEES !!!!!!!

And farmers are entitled to the Social Security....despite they dont contribute for it !!!!!


Thus when I say that Brazil is a Tropical Mess and a Tropical Mud, I cannot be so wrong !!!!

yessssss.......Brazil is an archaïc, medieval and third world country.

Here is a statement made in December 2005 by Paul Wolfowitz, the World Bank director :
""Something like 10 percent of the population of Brazil lives on less than a dollar a day - what we define as extreme poverty. "
Wolfowitz says about 25 percent of the population in the region lives on less than $2 a day.
"It does have, I think, the most severe inequality of any region in the world except for sub-Saharan Africa."

And on the subject that the state is deprived of revenues is totally wrong, because :
- even regular workers with an average monthly salary of around Reais 1100.- (which is the average salary in your 6 most developed industrial states).....DONT PAY INCOME TAXES...BECAUSE THEY ARE LEGALLY EXEMPT !!!!
- On the other hand, legal workers or not, or those with or without a job, or 100 % of the poors ....pay INDIRECT TAXES, such as fuel and transportation tax, very high in Brazil (Your fuel price at the pump station is much higher than in the USA....despite being a much poorer country).
- YOUR OVERALL TAX RATE THAT INCLUDE INDIRECT TAXES ARE VERY HIGH AT AROUND 38 % OF GDP
- BUT YOUR TAX RATE ON INCOME IS VERY LOW....SINCE THE MAXIMUM RATE IS AT ONLY 27 %......BENEFFITING THE WEALTHY WHO DESPITE THE ALREADY LOW TAX RATE.......STILL ENJOY DOING HEAVY TAX EVASION......... TO FURTHER REDUCE THEIR TAX BILL !!!!!!

Simply stated the mess is everywhere !!!!!!!!
To:Ch.c
written by João da Silva, April 06, 2007
Thus when I say that Brazil is a Tropical Mess and a Tropical Mud, I cannot be so wrong !!!!


You have made this statement several times.Now that you convinced me that we are in a Tropical mud, shoot off some suggestions to get out this mess. I am sure you have several.
...
written by bienchido99@hotmail.com, April 06, 2007
To: Ch.c
Where did you get so much hatred for Brazil? Your messages are impossible to take seriously because you are so full of hate. Of course Brazil has many problems, but when everything is "tropical mud" it's more a reflection on your own personal vendetta against Brazil.
To the nephew or son of Lula !!!!!!!!!
written by ch.c., April 06, 2007
Of course ! There is not only one answer but many !
Just do what successful countries did and do !!!!!
Take a good idea here, another good idea there and do your own economic model !
But take ideas that have been beneficial for the whole society and not bad ideas that have already proven bad historically !!!!!

But the first good ideas could be : accountability !
And so far there has been no accountability in Brazil and those who failed have not been penalized one way or the other.....these guys have been
re-elected.....by YOU !!!!!!!
Great isnt it ?

And to bienchido : instead of generalizing your critics, you should better criticize me or defend Brazil with arguments, facts, stats, comparisons.
Unable...because you have none ? Thus I should not be that wrong when I say brazilian are uneducated and have no brains for analyzing facts,numbers, stats and comparisons !!!!!

But dont worry, this is exactly what your governments and your minority wealthy elite....WANT !!!!!!!!
They are afraid that you become more educated and finally realize.....HOW STUPID YOU HAVE BEEN IN TRUSTING ALL THEIR LIES !!!!!!
your own personal vendetta against Brazil !!!!!!
written by ch.c., April 06, 2007
I suggest you to figure out how many foreigners have been horribly murdered by Brazilians and compare with how many Brazilians have been horribly killed by foreigners elsewhere !!!!!!
That would be a good starting base to find out who makes the most vendettaSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!

And my basic question to you would be simply how can anyone compliment Brazilian stats WHEN YOU ARE NEVER EVER ON TOP OF THE RANKINGS, BUT MOSTLY BADLY RANKED OR WORSE AT OR NEAR THE QUEUE OF THE RANKINGS !!!!!!!!
- Do I lie or invent when I say your country is ranked 122 out of 175 in the doing business ranking ?
- Do I lie or invent when I say your country is ranked as one the worst in the world for the wealth inequality ??????
- Do I lie or invent when I say that Brazil, despite 14 rates cut, have still the world highest interest rates....after inflation ????????
- Do I lie or invent when I say that Brazil has the lowest economic growth rate.....after Haïti in 2005, and after San Salvador and Haiti in 2006.
Not so until recently when your bad magician found a bad trick to restate the economic growth rate of the past few years !!!!! strange isnt it ?
I could dontinue for hours.....again !

Or should I or may should you compliment the sad reality ???????

Sorry but contrary to your corrupted Government and politicians, I dont lie !
Every single of my critics have official sources !!!!!!!!!!
And most could be found nowhere else than IN THE ARTICLES OF THIS SITE !!!!!!!!!!!!!
You probably missed them ......on purpose ! But they are still HERE.....just read them all instead of watching 24/7 your famous TV soap operas !
Blind to the problem
written by GTY, April 06, 2007
The people who use this blog at least have access to a computer. The people Fitzpatrick writes about never will, this includes much of the almost 50 million people in Brazil living in poverty, in squaller, Brazil's shame that few Brazilians even want to recognize exists. While many comments from the foreigners here, like Cch are racist, many Brazilians on this site try to paint a rosy picture, and defend bad acts when in fact the picture is bleak, not rosey at all. The only Brazilians that can count on Social Security are those fortunate enough to work for the governement. The only ones who can count on a good education or health care are the 10% of the rich who can afford it. You can say what you want, but in Europe and the US...now even China, there is opportunity for everyone to recieve both.

My wife's father was an Admiral in the Brazilian Navy, his wife (my God forsaken mother-in-law), still draws his entire retirement, when she dies, his full retirement will be drawn by my wife and her sister, but we sure don't need it...does that make sense. How many kids are on the streets juggeling tennis balls, wiping widnshields, or doing acrobatics for a few real? In the US we have our share of homeless on the corners, but the majority are adult drug addicts and drunks. In Brazil, the ones on the street represent your future.

Brazilian social services are simply lip service from politicans that want to keep getting elected and padding their own retirement and offshore accounts, there is no leadership, Lula has proved that time and time again, now he is selling out your biofuel technology to the US. I know many Brazilians and count many of them as friends, but when push comes to shove, they are all out for themselves even at the expense of family and friends, in short, it is very difficult to place trust in a Brazilian, no matter how much you want to...I am sorry, but Brazilians are the most selfesh people on the face of the earth. They have little need for charity and will walk right buy someone who has been hit by a car and is laying in the street, not even bothering to summon help, I have seen it. Drug dealers shut down entire cities , shops, stores and resturants are forced to close in "respect" for the funeral of a drug lord killed by the police, thousands including children show up for his funeral, This would be unimaginable in the US or Europe. The Drug Lord is the one, not the Brazilian governement, or charitable Brazilians who provide for these childrens, insuring them jobs as soldiers and packers for his drug trade, even though most of the young men will die a young and violent death.

Brazilians, go ahead, keep reading these articles which contain at least some truth and then keep making excuses or reasons why things continue to get worse and you continue to spin into oblivion.
Unfortunately this reality is so true
written by Stephanie, April 06, 2007
And we Brazilians tend to give the most unacceptable excuses, such as: this is how things have always been, why should I be the one to try to save the country? or: Why should I care about politicians? I hate Politics so I don't mind who will be elected since all of them are corrupted.

I don't have statistics to prove Brazilian think and act like that, however, I've been observing people around me and I can say Brazilians don't seem to realize how exploited they are, how ignorant their decisions are when they vote, how unconcious of the cruel reality we are when we go to school. SHould I feel sorry for us? Not at all, this is the price we're paying for being so ridiculously unaware of what is going on with our own country.

To:Che.c
written by João da Silva, April 07, 2007
To the nephew or son of Lula !!!!!!!!!
written by ch.c., 2007-04-06 13:51:22


Excuse me,did you call me the Nephew or son of Lula?
Don,t send them here !!!!!
written by u.s. guest, April 07, 2007
Illegal Brazilians operate in the u.s. much like the Informal workers the author describes... americans ARE FED UP WITH ILLEGAL ALIENS......
US Guest
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
If American companies would not hire them, nor could they not find work, there would be no reason for them to come...Brazil is not sending them. In fact, no one has sent immigrants since Castro did so on the boat lift. If you are so feed up with it, you should elect politicans that will do something about it. If we have opened to door to illegal immigrants for decades to fuel big buisnesses appetite for cheap labor, in fact, if we have encouraged it, we are morally obligated to let those that have made lives here and obeyed the law stay, while preventing new illegal immigration. Unfortunatly, there is a intellegence vacuum on this blog, the issue is complicated, but needs to be resolved.

Again, no country sends thier people here...we let them in.
The Hate
written by João da Silva, April 07, 2007
written by bienchido99@hotmail.comThis e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it , 2007-04-06 13:00:24

To: Ch.c
Where did you get so much hatred for Brazil? Your messages are impossible to take seriously because you are so full of hate. Of course Brazil has many problems, but when everything is "tropical mud" it's more a reflection on your own personal vendetta against Brazil.


Bienchildo, this guy is a Pshycopath.I cant stand this idiot,either.
try this
written by forrest allen brown, April 07, 2007
why was it when the US started to build the fence along out southern bordor brazilians came out to protest it , in SP /RIO .and other citys
But when brazil started to build theres in the south no one came out to say a thing
that is like saying do as we say not as we do
Forest
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
If my memory serves me, you are currently living in Brazil and a Vietnam Vet. I was in the military too, just after Vietnam for 10 years, a Gulf War I vet. I stood guard as an infantryman on the fence in Berlin and Hoff Germany on the Chech border. I am also an American who protests a wall on the US border, look where the right wing fanatics have taken us. Is it really something you want to see? The greatest country in the world, built on immigration, building a symbolic fence? What nonsense...what a shame. People all over the world should be protesting it, not just Brazilians. You are able to live in Brazil, why not just bring your wife and live here. Do something about the way you feel?

Do you really feel that a fence 100 miles long or so will keep people from coming in? Do you really think Brazilians (and every other nationality) really want to leave their family and friends in Brazil? They do so becuase the US turns a blind eye to illegal immigration so Walmart and McDonalds can have low paid, unskilled labor. So while you may be fooled by the retoric, I'm not, intelligent people are not fooled. Illegal immigration is encouraged by US business and government. Brazil does not "send" people", they leave because Brazil offers no opportunity and here, even illegaly, they can make somewhat of a living.

I don't know about the wall in South Brazil, it really is not relevant to the discussion. What is relevant is what we do with children born in the US to illegal immigrants? Do we toss them out? Do we hold them back from education or health care? Or do we embrace them as new citizens. I can tell you one thing, there are lots and lots of children of illegal immigrants serving and dying in Iraq and Afganistain, as an ex-soldier you should be ashamed for not recognizing this...should we deport their parents? You of all people should no there is no racism nor politics in a foxhole.

Oh, by the way, were did you learn how to construct a sentence? Didn't you know that you begin a sentence with a capital letter? There should be no period before "and", and countries (like Brazil) should be capitalized as well...period at the end. I'll bet there are a lot of illegal immigrants that know this. You must have been a draftee, at least now we have a volunteer Army and are not saddled with the level of soldier we had in Vietnam, although they were heros, they were used as cannon fodder.
To:Forest/Try this
written by João da Silva, April 07, 2007
But when brazil started to build theres in the south no one came out to say a thing
that is like saying do as we say not as we do


Forrest,my friend. You are doing ok?. I live in the south of Brazil and I am yet to come across any wall. I think you have had too many cold ones.

GTY, Forest is right now in Belize and a good friend of many Brazilians and American expatriates.

You take care Forest and have a great easter week end.
the rest of the
written by forrest allen brown, April 07, 2007
to me any one that comes to the USA adds another theard to the fabric that makes this country so grate .
to have someone in another land that does not face the same type of threat to life as we people do should keep out of our countrys business booth here and over seas .

most countries of the present day world owe a grate det to the USA , but we still have to put up with simple minded people trying to push there life styles on our land and life .
as far a brazil goes i will never return there , if a country that says it is so grate lets the law get away with what they did to me i dont need them or want them .
i can say the same for the USA i am in belize for now and my wife will join me here soon , and the way i feel towards the usa right now i could care less if they took away my citizenship and gave it away to some one else .
if you work and save to live your dream and the goverment lets some one take it away from you than why should i pay taxes or want to live in that country
as the rest of the world in comming up to progress the USA is comming down to meet them .
the money for the wall was stolen by lula and his 40 thifes
next you go to NY look at the hole do we need to care what other people think .
listen to cliton she says the avrage working woman makes $78.000 a year , who a DC whore .
we have gotton so sensitive we are worried what the people we are at war with are thinking about us ??
we worrie about taking pictures of them in prison , but yet they show our military personal killed and hung in the streets .
we worrie about how we treat there bible , we should worrie about how they teach there children to kill all non beleivers , and think brazil once the USA is gone you will be next as you are a nonbeliving state to them .

as i said before dont drink , smoke , do drugs , or chase women .
i have my wife soon
and the rest of the world can surlp my butt
keeps getting taken off server ??????????????????????????
written by forrest allen brown, April 07, 2007
i am a Brazilian. I have no desires, no will, no likes, no dislikes. I had been fashioned to resemble as closely as possible a human model which I had not chosen and which did not suit me. Day after day since my birth, I had been made up: my gestures, my attitudes, my vocabulary. My needs were repressed, my desires, my impetus, they had been dammed up, painted over, disguised and imprisoned. After having removed my brain, having gutted my skull, they had stuffed it full of acceptable thoughts which suited me like an apron on a cow. And when it was verified that the graft had taken, that I no longer needed anyone to control the waves which welled up from the depths of my being, I was let go. I could live freely.' roam 'in the context of the culture that makes us what we are
Brazilian.trying to deal with the network of chains that bind us: chains composed of gender, class, 'race' and religion and how the family transmits the past into the present and in doing so, hides the chains from our view.

I a country that does not give the BASICs rights to its people ,
that allows the wealthy to run as they see fit , that allow es the government to take what ever it wants , in in return say nothing to admit nothing .
but to place the blame on some one else everything is someone else fault
while we the people are set aside in the same country we are to be proud of
kept dumb by the government schools ,
kept hungry by the selling off of our food stocks .
denied good things to buy as the import tax is placed to high to deal with .
but every 4 years we set out to elect the new lords of the land not who is best but who we feel will not steal more from us than the last one.
all the new programs will not help Brazil or its people till we stop kidding ourselves we need change .
stop all the corruption .
stop all the lieing .
stop[p all the theft .
stop the killing of our young .
stop lieing to ourselves .

grow up and face it we need help !!!!
and it must start from within the host government , if not we need to replace them one way or the other
NOT ONLY IN BRAZIL BUT THE USA AS WELL
start with the 13 amendent read it well

Are you for real
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
Or retarded? No wonder they kicked you out of Brazil. Are you a plant from this blog, geez, no adult can really think and write like you do, like a third grader. How long do countries owe us debts...Europe? That was decades ago. The real question is what have we done lately? Brought peace to the middle east? Liberated Iraq? Stopped the spread of socialism in South and Latin America? No my friend, the world has every reason to point a finger at us, we have really f**ked things up in the last 8 years. As a God fearing nation, we had better be afraid, as God has something terrible in mind for us, we have sinned beyond belief. We have in just 8 short years rallied every enemy we have ever had, along with many that used to be friends. The world hates us, they have reason, we have realy screwed things up. Sure we are a super power, but our military is strung out, our enemies are now taking risks they would never have before...due to the fear of America. That fear no longer exists, the world percieves us as the MTV society, soft with a gooey middle...they are not far off.

Dude, I have some bad news for you, your lovely wife is not going to meet you in Brazil. She wants someone that can provide her with a Greencard, why can't you help jer immigrate? Convicted felon? On the run? There is another story behind you my friend. But if you have to be somewhere, well, Belize is as good as anywhere else, if you get a chance try the tarpon and bonefish on the flats. Just don't forget to take your medication.
GYT
written by forrest allen brown, April 07, 2007
like so many other things in life i dont care about , when i want to i can be perfict in english and 4 other languages
was in the USMC and we were used to protect army foward fire suport bases .
nixon and the press ran the war from DC they lived the dream we fought the night mare .
to many good men were lost to stupid ideas made up by people that there idea of doing service to there country was going to school and counting beans .
we never got a what our service men of ww 1/2 received and we now are making sure that our sons and daughters get a better welcom home than we did .
as far as my IQ 178 as of 10 years ago .
hold 11 patiants in assorted fields . some of them have killed more people than cancer.

the post above can be said about the USA also .
when ever a goverment of men find out they can grant themselves sepical guifts and favors and not worrie about it ti shows we are in the next to the last phase of before the decline of the state .
thay way through out history and it is doing it again
Pathetic
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
Forest...you are really pathetic. Another ex- vet whining about his lot in life, you are so full of s**t it is pouring out your ears. You have no one to blame for your miserable life than yourself. Nixon is dead, so are the press that covered the war, most of your Nam brothers (if you really were in Nam) are proud of their service and are now honored by America. Your "I'm a poor Vet with PTSS" won't wash anymore. Cancer killed close to a quarter million people last year...what did you invent?...I believe you are either a liar or delusional. 4 different languages? You can barely write in English, my nine year old can write better than you, he does speak 2 languages...you are full of crap. 178 IQ, you can say anything you want on a Blog, doesn't mean anyone would believe you, I believe it's more like 78.

Blame the Governement, blame Brazil, blame illegal immigrants, blame your wife, blame the war...you seem to blame everyone but yourself. Your poor Forest pity party may work on most of the people here, but not me. Your wife is not coming to Belize because she can't get a Greencard, but because you have stopped being a man. Poor Forest, I can't wait to see your next post about how unjust life has been to me...Man Up! What a waste of a man you have turned out to be.
3D Prototype
written by Professor, April 07, 2007
Considering all of the above posts that I just read, it seems to me if we if we were to shelve our patriotism of our respective countries, we would come to the same conclusion: Human civilization has been a failure at being civil. However, If we had not tried, how would we have known?
!!!
written by forrest allen brown, April 07, 2007
how many countries have you been to that hate you just because you are an American .that right you are an arm chair traveler
i love my military service ,was and still happy to serve . did you army boy
do they hate you or your country ?
did you do any thing to improve there prospective on an American or do you just set on the bar stool and bitch about how your government has screwed things up and they are a bunch of monkeys .

go to Cuba and see what they think of you as a person from Canada then tell them you are a american watch how they change .

the US has been led by a bunch of self absorbed self fulfilling ass for more than 60 years they dictate policy to the world and we as a people pay the price .
it was the US that passed into law it would not wage war on or set to try to kill the leader of a country and most countries sign it to protect there respective butts .
while we as citizens have to pay with higher taxes , our blod , and getting put down by any person from any country we wish to visit
have you ever done any thing to cause a war , have you ,
but we as a people are judged by what the press puts out .
do you go to foreign lands for sex because you cant get laid in the US , most likely you do
do you know or did you bother to find out one thing about the last person you came in contact with while standing guard , did not think so

as far as my wife the only thing she has ever done wrong in life was to marry me .

to try to get her to the US has been a long drawn out set of road blocks ,
pick up a woman from Brazil take her to the embassy as say this is my wife and we want to go to the USA ,
then tell them no i have not paid taxes in the US for the past 10 years , no i do not or she does not own any thing . no we do not have jobs that amount to more than $15.000 a year
set back and see what they tell you

how much money has the US spent trying to buy friends .
how many dictators has the US backed that were just flat out flops .

it use to be every thing good came from the US , and every thing bad came from the US .
now we have to add the most stupid things come from the US.

the US needs to just back off its high horse , close down it military bases out side of the Americas and let the world run with itself , cover its own land then its own hemisphere , turn from an oil based society to an alternate fuel and life style

and let the world go to the dogs of war and we stay out of it .
let them police it , china is an up and comer , Brazil wants a chance .

let them run with it ,
go back before ww1 and live like that as a country .

would this make you happy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
do you have a name or just to afraid to use it on the net , see that is what is wrong with you can say what you want and not be held to answer for it as you are not a person but and alter ego not held up to any truth as you are nothing but words on a page
anonymous should be you name like so many others here .
grow some balls and live with it , if you don't like what i put into print don't read it
don't get bent and call me and others names as we could never meat like some small child on a prank phone call , but like them it all can be traced back to the source
i have more respct for mr João da Silva and others on this site as he is not one to call the kettle black with out putting his name up front






...
written by AES, April 07, 2007
You write very well, though in your grammatic criticism you yourself erred ever so slightly
'you of all people should no there is no racism nor politics in a foxhole'. . .you of course spelled no incorrectly meaning no doubt 'know'. Your tirade is curious. It was a pity before September 11, the U.S. was 'free' naive, who could have conceived in our open c**kpited society that someone would take a boxcutter and slash the throat of a stewardess and fly a plane into the Pentagon, and two skyscrapers in N.Y. Now we all have to be scrutinized, checked, verified, searched, wire tapped, listened in on and bolt the cabin door on all airliners and have the presence of armed marshalls on board. We cannot even stop drugs from crossing the border in mass, we cannot stop people from entering our country in mass. The fence is I think 750 miles long. It is a pity to have to attempt to prevent all of this infiltration, just on the possibility that someone might take advantage of this hole in our armanent. Build the fence and station troops along the border as necessary. You manned the Berlin wall. That was a wall to keep people in. This is a fence to keep people out. You mocked Forest as having been a draftee. The problem with America today is that there is no compusory service. It is a free ride. We have a nation of emotional adolescents that believe nothing is required and everything is owed. We have a nation of physically unfit, obese, emotional cripples. We have in essence a mercenary army, an international professional SWAT team if you will. If we are at war then draft enough men to cover the military necessity to complete the objective. A paid military. What an absurdity. I did two years for free, I joined in '63 after Kennedy had his brains shot out. It was my obligation as a citizen to serve, to contribute. The 'paid' military, euphamistically called 'the all volunteer army' was created because in '73 it was determined that without a declaration of war conscription was unconstitutional because it states that no standing army shall be kept. Well GTY we are in a declared war. I have two sons in the military defending your insensitive ass and your erudite daughter. One is a submariner and the other in helo's. As to the agricultural interest in cheap immigrant farm labor, supporting illegal immegration, it is a thing of the pre -war past. The cheap foreign worker program can be legitimized, like passing through customs. How many millions of foreign nationals are roaming clandestinly around the U.S.? And why the hell dont you know in time of war who the hell these people are? What do you think, they all mean us no harm? s**t bring back the draft and leave Forest the 'f**k' alone. Why dont you go yell at your children. And thanks for your military service, I'm sure you got paid for it. I got $40 a month along with a million other 19 year olds. It seems you wont be happy till a nuclear device goes off in N.Y. imported through some hole in our defense, or fence. Then what you stupid f**k?
Forest & AES
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
Are you guys brothers or what? Anyway, I agree with much of what you both say, I am just saying that giving up and whinning about everything is a cowards way out. Forest, I travel frequently, but unlike you, mine is done is business class and includes not only S America but Asia as well, AES is correct, people don't hate the American, they hate America. And I agree with you regarding our governments performance and their willingness to start wars that do not effect their sons and daughters, it is a national shame that blood is being spilled due to their arrogance. I do disagree with AES that the current military is mercenary, sure they are paid better than the "old days", but these are young men and women who are truely patriots, who no matter what the press put their lives on the line for what the believe, they should be honored not defamed and AES has done, funny he does this with children serving, his kids must be very proud of him, does Cindy Shehan ring a bell? I do agree with AES however, that every young man over 18 should spend a couple of years in uniform, I think part of the reason we have sunk so low is that they no longer have to. Instead they can live their MTV lives without ever understanding why they have the ability to do so.

AES
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
AES, you use, like our moronic President the same arguments regarding 9-11, sure, we were naive, we still are, but we should not have to give up our way of lives nor our constitutional rights to be safe. We as taxpayers do have a right to a competent intellegence function and government, but we have no right to try and gain information by the torture of combatants, many who were just in the wrong place in the wrong time. Not only have our polices not worked, we have created terrorists, people who would do us real harm by the tens of thousands by our arrogance and incompetence. Our governmenet had the right and momentum to fight terrorism, but why did we invade and occupy Iraq? And then make so many mistakes...poor leadership and a lack of knowledge how the world works. The middle east is a lot different than Texas.

A wall is a wall, what do you think our founding fathers would think of the idea? The wall was just a bulls**t idea by a punch of pragmatic politicians to get elected and grasping at straws, it will never be built, it's not even funded, do you think the new congress will do so? You do however, make a good point regarding our fence being built to keep people out, the other to keep people in, but it still seems so un-American to even consider building it. What do we do with the millions of illegal immigrants that have been here for so long, that have built lives, that have sons and daughters that serve our country as soldiers, doctors, firemen, policemen? I have no answer, it is a tough dilema, one that can not be solved by something as simple as just building a fence. I am not sure of the answer, but we have lots of Brazilian friends who have entered illegally, most have decent jobs and have saved money, are sending money home to their familes...but they would love to go home, why not some sort of guest worker program that leads to residency...is that such a radical idea? Why are Americans so fearful of people that are different than themselves, is it due to ignorance?

AES, I, and most of America honor your sons serving, you dishonor my daugter, but she is only 9, should she be drafted? I would not encourage my son or daughter to serve, it scares the crap out of me, but I would be proud of them if that was their decision. I can tell you one thing, they both love God and they pray every week for your kids, I do too. I am not naive, in fact the opposite, I know that there are people that would do us harm, but our policies have created more of them, not less. We have not been attacked again, for this I am grateful, but I think it is safe to say we will see another 9-11 one day. The same world who morned for us will now cheer, do you think we have some fault for that? Was it really necessary to isolate the US and lose our friends, diplomacy now is at the end of a gun, how many friends do you keep that way? Real freindship is based on trust, who can possibly trust American now?

I have no ill will towards Forest, but his rambeling must be challeged, if what he says is true, and that is very doubtful, although I do feel he believes it, he has created his own lot, not the governmenet, not the war, not God. I am sure if he was indeed a Marine (in doubt as well), he might have saw horrible things, but many of his Semper Fi brothers saw the same, in fact most, but they came home and used what they learned and took advantage of the opportunites offered to create better lives for themselves and their families. He squandered his opportunites and now lives in a state of regret unwilling to do something about it, should I feel sorry for him? Because that is what he wants. His postings are filled with self pity and weakness, so while I hold him no ill will, I have no respect for him either. If he wanted to make a better life for himself and his wife he could do so, he has the good fortune of being an American. He states heno longer wants his citizenship, but I'll bet he still holds his passport, talk is cheap. He reminds me of the guys on the corners here in Boca Raton with their hands out for a few quarters. What happened to them to become this way? Drugs, booze...a war, are we to blame? Nope, its their choice to be there, no one in America has to...same goes for Forest.

Last for AES and Forest
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
My name is Gary, I work as a Director of Sales & Marketing for a specialty chemical company, a globalized market. I make much more than $15K a year, own a big beautiful house in Boca, in fact the pool is being cleaned as I type this. I give 10% of my income to my church and am active in my chidrens activites, and yes, I was once a $25K a year volunteer "mercenary" for the US Army, an infantryman, not a submariner or a chopper pilot. I used the GI Bill to get a good education, Forest had the same opportunites as I did, he just chose to be one of those to carry a chip on his shoulder his entire life!

I don't need to go to foreign land just to have sex, I met my Brazilian born wife here in the US over 15 years ago, but you married a poor Brazilian girl down in Brazil...now are you not calling the kettle black. The Lufthansa flights into the north are packed with men going to have sex with children, that is Brazil's shame, I have seen it in Asia as well. I also agree with you that our Latin and South American polices have been "flops", buying and empowering tin horn dictators to do our will has caused the region to go left and the region is better for it, Uruguay and Argentina want to extridite Kissinger now, I hope they succeed.

It is naive to think we should not have a forward deployed military in strategic foreign bases, we just need to do so as friends not adveseries, I also agree we need to cut our dependence on oil, but will China and Russia, the fortunate thing is we have the technology to do so, now that American car makers are bankrupt, perhaps we will finally see new technology, you see capitalism will drive that change and we should have the balls to drill in our own untapped fields of sweet oil.

Guess, what? If you have not paid taxes for 10 years you are a criminal. Even if you have no, or a foriegn income, didn't you not know you have to file, or are you one of those wackos who feel taxes are "unconstitutional", even though you claim to be a Nam Vet (highly doubtful), we are a nation of laws, you get no free pass. I'm not "bent", you mean nothing to me, reading your pathetic posts are just a way to relax for a few minutes before I go out and take my wife to a nice dinner, go to work or take my son to soccer practice. If you are so damn smart, then come home, get a lawyer to deal with the IRS and find a job making more than $15K, hell you could make that on the night shift at McDonalds...and I also agree, your wife made a big mistake marrying you, but she can correct that too. You call me a stupid f**k, OK, I can live with that, but there is nothing stupid about what I have achieved, my morals and my thoughts that everyone is accountable for their own actions and choices, Forest has made his, so have you, if those are your choices PLEASE quit bitching about your lots if life
Ground pounders and Jarheads
written by Professor, April 07, 2007
I was in SAC,MAC & TAC a more civilized mercenary force led by Casper and Ronny.
We are not as quick to attack, we gently deliver our bombs and missiles..
Beer time, must run, ta.ta....
Professor
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
Spent my time in Panama with a TAC FAO team, I was a young SP4, driving the APC. Those A10's did a good job of keeping the G's undercontrol...thanks.
A10's
written by Professor, April 07, 2007
A10's, Prettiest deadliest ugliest thing you ever did see!
I spent most of my time on a RAF/USAF-F111-fb base waiting to drop
the nukes on Moscow, that the US./U.K. said we did not have on the base.
Most of the time was spent in NATO exercises, living in chemical warfare suits eating k-rations and watching the Brits head out to the Falklands. Thank GOD
for Pink Floyd and Jack Daniels and ration cards.
Whatever happened to the Cold War? It was so predictable, something you could rely on!
GTY: A mercenary among a litany of other things is a soldier that is salaried, to make a disdinction between an unpaid conscript, fulfilling an obligation of citizenship
written by AES, April 07, 2007
China
During the early stages of the Second Sino-Japanese War (before Pearl Harbor) America didn't want to become overtly involved in the conflict (due to a non-aggression pact with Japan), yet felt an obligation to assist the Chinese in stopping Japanese aggression. So the United States sent Claire Chennault to assist China and created the American Volunteer Group (AVG), better known as Flying Tigers. The pilots earned roughly $600-700 basic pay per month, plus an extra $500 per confirmed Japanese aircraft that was shot down courtesy of then the Chinese President Chiang Kai-shek.

I did not use the term pejoratively, I used it in the sense that we were reduced to paying, citizens, soldiers to participate in the defense of the Nation, because the Constitution forbade a standing army. It became a 'job' rather than a responsibility of citizenship. Even the Swiss require military service of their citizens. It is 'a priori' that every country demands of its citizenry obligatory military service. For us in the '70s it became the final cry of the 'anti war movement' 'hell no we wont go' and you cannot Constitutionally make us. The Press was high on its new found power of rabid investigatory skill, hell they had brought down Nixon. But these people were totally disconected to the geo political world, that Russia had not stopped, that Afghanistan had fallen, that the Shaw had fallen. The consequence of this new found 'freedom' to tell the government to go 'f**k' itself was 20% interest and a falling dollar (vis a vis gold which had risen in 1980 to $850). I remember Regan's first press conference, they were informed they would stand when he entered, they would behave with decorum, and they would treat him as the President of the United States. Not some schmuck. The press had become full of itself. That was stopped in the first press conference. Yeh I owned a hundred acers, quarter mile long drive, two acer stocked pond,streams, woods, deer, two story house, gate that I could close to the world. And I could shoot my rifle at my lake off my back deck anytime I chose.

I was glad when my sons chose to join the military. One because of the extraordinary opportunities that were afforded to them (monetarily) and that they would be watched, medically tended, and generally fed well, and made to heel while they transitioned between boys and men. They would learn things like responsibility, and they could figure out in their 4 or 6 year obligation what the f**k they wanted to do with their lives. They would be eligible for GI loans for property and houses with guaranteed mortgages, at low interest, without land you are suspended in a state of unreality; and guaranteed scholarship grants.

The first Desert Storm War was not over when it ended. The treaty was consistently violated for ten years, the country finally divided into three zones, and still he f**ked with his people. He was used as a buffer to Iran. The war in Iraq is not about Iraq it is about Iran. The Kobar Towers, the Kole, the American Embassies, Indonesia, global state terrorism. History is a hundred year yucca waiting to manifest the nature of its flower, it moves slowly, beyond the five year memory of the death of 3000 citizens one 911 morning. It is yet to be played. Look at China, once a marxest shadow now a burgeoning economy, if you have nothing you have nothing to lose. We plan twenty years out, beyond the attention span of 96% of our population. Not of it is unrelated. The original invasion was planned for 275,000, Rumsfeld overrode this and sent in 150,000. In turned out to be at best problematic, maybe it is all planned, I have read released CIA documents published from Georgetown University's Library that 25 years after the fact I had now idea were going on. 'When we want your opinion we will give it to you.'

There are multiple solutions to a singular problem. Truman was dispised, villified, mocked, and dropped an atomic bomb killing 100,000 to save a million American lives. Tough decision, hard times. And on and on. Regards

Now as to Forrest http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/9823/80/
AES
written by GTY, April 07, 2007
I think that we would probably agree more than we would disagree on most subjects. As far as Forest, I really wish him no ill, it just seems that many of his "issues" are self inflicted and that he blames everyone but the person he should for his lot. Perhaps, we don't know the entire story. If he would say that he is perfectly happy making $15K a year living with his Brazilian wife in Belize...then I would be the first to congratulate him. But if the reason he can't go back is because the IRS is looking for him for failure to file for ten years, then he has caused his own problems, not one else has caused them for him. He could Man Up, and resolve the outstanding issues, the IRS would work with him, find a real job that would allow his Brazilian wife to immigrate, you don't have to be rich...but I think the "real job" is the main issue with Forest.
GTY
written by forrest allen brown, April 08, 2007
usmc 1970 starting out pay $96 a month , but got a raise to $3.300 a year before leaving .in the marines we call them fighting holes .went to MCRD san deigo. as most people west of the mississippi do , and as far as the draft , 18 years out of high school you should have to serve ,any one that serves in the military should be the only able to vote for any thing
i make well over $15.000 a year but does not ever enter the USA , have to pay taxes to what ever country i am working in , a few years spent long time in UK try paying there taxes and then in US ,
I am doing what i want to do all over the world , did not end up with an 80 ft boat and several support craft by being stupid , my falt was to beleive in a captian in the brazilian navy named Kleber persik , then trusting in the law to show i was right . not in brazil if you are a gringo .
there are not to many places in this world i have not been out of my own pocket ,
i just spent 4 months in the states of texas and nevada , had a little job got my pass port redone no police came looking for me , clear police report when i picked up my texas drivers permit for another 10 years .
if you look at the world as i do we as a peoples all want better for our children than we had , but when the very same goverment takes away thoes rights from the people they are to serve , and become self serving , we should no longer owe them a living .
the needs of the many , out weigh the wants of the few .
all that i say or write has can and will be backed up by facts, i have a very small circle of friends that know me well ,
i never drink , never smoked , used drugs , just wanted to live out my life on the roamdeep , buy will have to get another one and do it again , but this time do unto others before they can do unto me .
what is a real job living 9 to 5 then dyeing at your desk after 25 years .
spending 20 years in the military then retiring and dyeing 2 years later
or just taking a chance at doing what you want to do and making a good living at it till it is taken away from you .
they all come to an end as we do on avrage 26,620 days
Good Luck
written by GTY, April 08, 2007
Hang in there Forest and good luck. It seems like you have lived three lives more than most, just be careful about who and what you blame. Surely not the US, we honor your service and your sense of adventure, there is help here should you need it. I read what happened to your boat, you are not the only Gringo screwed by Brazilian, in fact they are masters of it. I wrote in a previous post, that while I count many Brazilians as family and friends, I would never entirely trust one, they are an untrustworthy people, its built into there culture and their soul. The one exception has been my wife of 15 years, but her family and friends are shameless.

My success comes from helping my company keep from getting screwed by Brazilians. The deals I do are covered by cash in US accounts and lawyers in both countries, it pisses my Brazilian associates off that I keep them from being able to expolit a situation or corrupt a good deal, but I have made many of them rich the right way.

Living in Belize, answering to no one, keeping your self respect are all admirable, good luck and God Bless.
...
written by Ric, April 08, 2007
The possibility exists, Forest, that some guys are just jealous of you, your lifestyle or your mobility. They would naturally deny it. I personally would be bored stiff living in the states working at some job, or even running a small business. Like flying people from point A to point B for a living. Gets old fast.
To:GTY
written by João da Silva, April 08, 2007
GTY
written by forrest allen brown, 2007-04-07 19:43:46


Hi, I have been reading your posts in this thread re Forrest. Lots of people think he got a raw deal while in Brazil,by losing his boat "Roam Deep". It was his livelyhood and he lost everything inclduing the oictures of his mother and the deceased ex wife. He got married to a poor Brazilian lady again after a few years. I personally think that you have been very hard on Forrest, though you say you bear no ill will on him.

I think you and your wife will be able to help him to get back his boat. You mentioned that your late father-in-law was an Admiral in the Brazilian Navy. She or her mother should know many junior officers under his command who are occupying key posts now. Perhaps she could send an e-mail to one of them to initiate an investigation to find the whereabouts of his boat "Roam Deep" and all the items on board that disappeared. If I know anything about our military officers, they would be shocked to know what happened with Forest and his boat and certainly take action.

BTW, I have met many Americans who have been living outside their country and contributing to their host nations. However I find it repugnant that Forest was treated shabbily in Brazil ,just because he is a nomad American. When you mentioned about the 10% donation you make to your church, I remembered an American missionary lady Dorothy Stang who was in her 70s and murdered.

Thank you
Joao
written by GTY, April 08, 2007
My wifes father has had a senior Naval Officer looking out for his family since his death several years ago, his name is Admiral Jenuao (not sure if it is spelled correctly), he is a powerful man and I have been fishing with his son on his boat and his dinner guest at the Rio Yacht Club. Up until Lula's election, he was Deputy Secretary of the Navy in charge of all ports. He was recently retired because of a very interesting political move, all verifiable in the Brazilian press. He was up for Secretary of the Navy. He was against purchasing a submarine from the US, a nuke, he prefered to purchase a Brazilian class sub. His competitor for the position was for the American nuke. Lula choose the American made nuke and Jenuao was retired, my wife read me the press release. 20 years ago he was my wifes boss (got her the job as a favor to her father) when she worked at the Brazilian Embassy in DC. My wife has been in touch, as he has helped her drug addicited brother find help in a Naval hospital, and his wife and he have both fought off a bought of cancer. My wife is currently visting friends in California, she returns Monday, I will show her the article about Forest and let her make a decision.
PS
written by GTY, April 08, 2007
I was living in Rio when Sister Stang, as enviromentalist who loved Brazil was killed. How about the French social workers who were robbed and killed in there Copacabana office by a person they helped leave the favela, educated and provided a good job...it's hell there sometimes.
I never knew how to worship until I knew how to love.
written by forrest allen brown, April 08, 2007
yes people i have had a very good life , and i have had some very bad thing happen to me .
by believing in the law , by trusting law as we are taught in the USA and state of Texas , break it it will break you .

Brazil is a bit different . i found out the hard way .
but what happened to me is nothing compared to what happened to jack minick ,
he was in the south to have his boat build for $600.000 , it went 16 months longer to build and price in the splash was $1.6 million then the big problems started .
owners of Brazilian company had not paid taxes , or SS on employees . then the import taxes were not paid . so the boat sat in Brazil for 14 more months before he could get it out .
today he is in Nassau Bahamas going to cross to Florida and sell the boat.

And if any one could help with the roamdeep i have a full list of names and dates if it would help , also go look at the roamdeep papers as seen last month .
any time i get started on the roamdeep project i here a different story from the navy in JP and the naval chief in Fortaleza , but i ask them to back up there Prof but never get a reply
even the consular office in Brasilia thinks i took a hosing on the roamdeep deal .
when i came back to JP capt kleber persik was quickly moved to a different duty station , and i was never told where he went , but i know enough about naval badges to know he was a sub Mainer
...
written by conceicao, April 08, 2007
At least give the Brasilian navy credit for firing on one of Lincoln's ships. While I think failure to protect the property rights of U.S. vessel owners in Brasilian ports would be crazy and wrong,
it is nothing compared to the American government's committing a deliberate act of war in a Brasilian port in complete violation of Brasilian and international law. Maybe the Brasilian officials
that seemed so unwilling to help Mr. Brown have not forgotten about the attack on the Florida - and on Brasil - either.
TO:GTY
written by João da Silva, April 08, 2007
My wife is currently visting friends in California, she returns Monday, I will show her the article about Forest and let her make a decision.


Gary, I am very surprised that your wife decided to visit her friends in CA,leaving you all alone in FL,during the Easter Week end. I guess she took your two daughters along with her. It is interesting to note that my friend Forest is with his wife in Belize,Bo with his Brazilian wife, AES with his and Herr.Professor with his Brazilian wife who is an Euronut.

If your wife,after reading the material about the plight of "Roam Deep",does not want to make any decision,please do let us know. Our friend, Forest,who took a couple of bullets in his head in Vietam deserves a better treatment from our government,especially the Navy.

If I were your wife, I would activate her contacts with all the wings of of our armed forces to find out what exactly happened to "Roam Deep". BTW, I love the name of his boat.It does sound so mysterious and romantic. It reminds me of a book I read almost 40 decades ago. It was called "Run Deep,Run Silent".

As for Sis.Stang, it was sad.A cowardly attack on an elderly person who meant no harm to anyone.The same applies to the French NGO workers. I was shocked to hear that they were killed,by those "favelados" whose lives they wanted to improve-just like Sister.Stang.What is more saddening is that nobody has been held accoutable so far.

Never mind Gary, you have a great Easter Sunday and reflect on the nice friends you have made in this site.

Take care. If AES,Herr.Professor,Bo,Ric, "A Brazilian", Forest ,etc; bug you too much, give me holler.
Conceicao
written by GTY, April 08, 2007
Dude, the Florida incident happened in 1864! What have you done lately. In fact, even though the capture of the Florida happened in Bahia, the Brazilian Navy had nothing to do with it. The Florida was a Confederte ship, captured by the USS Wachusett. Brazil failed to intervene in any way as they did not recognize the Confederecy. The Florida was towed to sea by the Wachusett while the Brazilians watched. Several men aboard the Florida were killed and injured, Brazil did tend to their injuries and attempted to make repairs to the wounded ship.
To: Forest
written by João da Silva, April 08, 2007
I never knew how to worship until I knew how to love.
written by forrest allen brown, 2007-04-07 21:39:54



Forrest,it is Easter week end and time to reflect and think. I wish you and your wife a very happy Easter Sunday and enjoy the life given by our Lord.

You take care
To:Conceição
written by João da Silva, April 08, 2007
Maybe the Brasilian officials
that seemed so unwilling to help Mr. Brown have not forgotten about the attack on the Florida - and on Brasil - either


It happenned so long ago (1864) and we Brazilians have such short memory that I dont think Mr.Brown was penalized because of that episode.I would rather think it was due to pure ignorance and a desire to demonstrate their "Machismo" to humiliate Mr.Brown .

BTW, do you live in Brazil? I am asking this question because,you are not using the Brazilian Key board with ABNT 2 specs.
To:GYT
written by João da Silva, April 08, 2007
The Florida was a Confederte ship, captured by the USS Wachusett. Brazil failed to intervene in any way as they did not recognize the Confederecy.


The attitude of Brazil towards The Florida is what we call "ficar em cima do muro".I am happy to inform you and Conceição that our elected officials continue doing so. In case you didnt understand what "ficar em cima do muro" means, you better ask your wife when she gets back from CA

smilies/grin.gif
Joao
written by GTY, April 08, 2007
I know what it means literally, "Stay on Top if the Wall", but I do need a translation for context. My wife is a Brazilian Jew, I am an American one, no Easter for us. Two of my kids (daughter and son) are here with me, we will be fishing in the Florida Keys on our boat Sunday and Monday, my oldest son is up at college, he is a senior at Boston University...all three speak perfect Portuguese...mine sucks. My wife will be back on Tuesday, then it's back to the real world...it really is pretty good.

Geez, Forest, two rounds in the head? That explains a lot. Your a hero man.
...
written by conceicao, April 08, 2007
A little cursory research will show that the federal ship was fired upon. Similar research will show that diplomatic officials present at the port well knew that a federal and a Confederate ship
were docked with one ship between them and that the belligerent status (de facto recognition) that the Brasilian government had accorded the Confederacy legally protected the Florida and its sailors
while in port - straight incontrovertible international law. I bring up the subject to point out the vapidity of GTY's going on and on ad nauseum about the supposed lack of integrity of Brasilians
relative to Americans with frequent references to the Brasilian navy and Mr. Brown's situation with his vessel while apparently totally oblivious to the Florida incident which involved the Brasilians
operating with total integrity in accordance with any applicable international legal standard and then courage in firing on the U.S. vessel while the sneak attack by the federal ship was
undertaken with such complete contempt for the legalities involved that I doubt that the matter was ever resolved diplomatically. And, 143 years does not seem so long ago to me as my mother's first
cousin was flying out of the American airbase in Northeastern Brasil in WWII about 65 years - all sort of a continuum - and I also think that the BEF accorded itself with honor and integrity in fighting Hitler on the Italian front - so what's the point of criticizing Brasilian character based on nothing?

Joao, I accept your explanation above - I am just fed up with this endless anti-Brasilian drivel that smears too many people with too broad a brush and is totally contrary to my personal experience.
I live in the Southern U.S. - I am not Brasilian.
and somewhere, the Sphinx bangs its head against a wall
written by forrest allen brown, April 08, 2007
WE DO NOT BASH ALL BRAZILIANS we bash thoes whom need to be talked about we also talk well about each other . i have many fond thoughts about most brazilians and some i hope to live to be 100 and there himroids burn every day of the week .
i am an equail bashing person i go after the US goverment also , and just out right stupid things we do to each other on this 27.000 mile rock we all live on.
think 450.000.000 million cubic metric miles of water on this planet and no one wants to go back to steam power ? but china still builds steam cars for there rail services .
only one round nice shot oswald ,
...
written by bo, April 08, 2007
Unfortunately this reality is so true
written by Stephanie, 2007-04-06 18:54:22

And we Brazilians tend to give the most unacceptable excuses, such as: this is how things have always been, why should I be the one to try to save the country? or: Why should I care about politicians? I hate Politics so I don't mind who will be elected since all of them are corrupted.

I don't have statistics to prove Brazilian think and act like that, however, I've been observing people around me and I can say Brazilians don't seem to realize how exploited they are, how ignorant their decisions are when they vote, how unconcious of the cruel reality we are when we go to school. SHould I feel sorry for us? Not at all, this is the price we're paying for being so ridiculously unaware of what is going on with our own country.


Very impressed Stephanie, especially if you are a brazilian. I've met brazilians like you, although it's rare, especially here in the northeast of brazil. The first step in resolving any problem, or problems, is the acknowledgement that they exist, taking responsibility for them, and deciding what change(s) need to be made and then take action. Unfortunately there is a huge percentage of brazilians that refuse to take the very first step, and that's the very acknowledgement that problems exist.


...
written by bo, April 08, 2007
written by ch.c., 2007-04-06 13:51:22
But the first good ideas could be : accountability !
And so far there has been no accountability in Brazil and those who failed have not been penalized one way or the other.....these guys have been
re-elected.....by YOU !!!!!!!
Great isnt it ?



Although ChC can be monotonous, he's right on the money here. And although he may go overboard at times I can understand why he posts some of the things he does and the way he does. It can get frustrating when you try to talk to 180 million people about Godzilla stampeding down Avenida Paulista and everyone is saying, "What giant lizard?"
...
written by bo, April 08, 2007
written by GTY, 2007-04-06 20:08:40
Again, no country sends thier people here...we let them in.


Wouldn't go that far GTY, the U.S. is not just "letting them in". Many illegals have been caught, time and time again, only to try and try again. Countries that are the largest offenders need to be held responsible as well. But naturally the first initiative must come from our representatives in the U.S. congress. We need to get tough on U.S. employers with stiff fines and jail time and we also need to get tough with the countries that are the largest perpetrators. We certainly have the ability, we don't even need to send one soldier nor one politician. We have the economic means to cause devasting consequences in both Mexico (NAFTA), and brazil (we are their #1 importer doubling the amount of imports to their 2nd largest importer).

When countries like Mexico that are receiving 35 BILLION dollars a year in remittances from illegal workers in the U.S., when Brazils largest industry, or actually it's now tied as it's largest industry with soja, is brazilians outside of brazil sending monies made in other countries, the vast percentage made by "illegal" brazilians, there's not much of an incentive for the home gov'ts. of these countries to keep them at home. If the mexican and brazilian gov'ts. wanted to help the U.S. and reduce their citizens entering there illegally they certainly could. All one would have to do is do city wide raid in Governador do Valadares and they'd catch huge numbers of coyotes and people making false documentation. But as I stated before, these countries have a financial interest in their people being in the U.S. in mass.
...
written by bo, April 08, 2007
...
written by conceicao, 2007-04-08 01:17:22
Joao, I accept your explanation above - I am just fed up with this endless anti-Brasilian drivel that smears too many people with too broad a brush and is totally contrary to my personal experience.
I live in the Southern U.S. - I am not Brasilian.



Well conceicao you must have been with some very good people during your time in brazil, they do exist. And also, you must not have been spending or investing any large amounts of money. I'm talking about buying property, houses, businesses, etc. Believe me when I say I take no pleasure in stating this but I can take you to anyone of at least 100 gringos that have made "investments" in brazil, and everyone, without exception, has a "story" to tell about how he/she got rooked in some way, shape, or form.

I'm on my way to a condominium in my city right now where there are 63 beachfront homes, and 33 of those are owned by gringos. Their homes were "finished" within the last 4 months, actually all are not quite 100% finished as of yet. I put them in touch with a lawyer, one of mine, a very good one, as they have numerous problems, principally that none of them have yet to receive their "escritura" or deed and yet they have not only already paid the value that was stated on their contract, and at least four months ago, but have recently found out, with my help, that they were charged anywhere from 25% to 80% more than the 30 brazilian homeowners for the same homes in the same condominiums!!! The builder is not happy, he thought they would never contract a lawyer, the real estate agent, a brazilian whom I know quite well and met shortly after I moved to brazil, whom after I discussed this situation with him last week said to me, "tell them to get a lawyer if they think they have a case", then the very next day I took them to mine, and my lawyer called him asking him questions, he got nervous and stated, "Estou saindo esse negocio", in other words, "I'm getting out of this thing." And then a few days later when I see him next he says, "I don't think getting a lawyer was a good option for them."

Of course not, it's not a good option for him and the builder!


I've seen it time, and time, and time again. People here in brazil prey upon a gringo's "falta de conhescimento", or lack of knowledge of how the way things work in brazil, or of the market. Many have no qualms in trying to make a deal with whoever the gringo may have that is "helping" them. Offering to Pay them a "commission", in plain english it's a bribe, or "hush money". Many here in brazil think that people from the first world that are from countries that have microscopic numbers in relation to literacy when compared to brazil's and levels and quality of education vastly superior, stupid!!

And I don't want to hear some say, "well this happens in all countries". The hell it does, not like here, not as a matter of routine. When one goes to buy a home or a car in the U.S. they don't double the price because they hear you talking portuguese, or chinese, or french, or spanish.

I could go on for hours about this, from my own experiences and literally hundreds of others that I know or have met. Matter of fact within the next couple months I will be travelling to England and giving speeches on "what one needs to be aware of when purchasing or investing in brazil". Simply because I'm tired of hearing the heart-wrenching stories, it's disgusting and appalling and brazilians should really be ashamed. I can tell true stories about little old widows investing nearly everything they had and coming away with nothing! Gringos getting taken advantage of financially in brazil is not the exception, it is the rule. And it goes from paying fares to taxi drivers all the way to investing millions.
...
written by bo, April 08, 2007
as they have numerous problems, principally that none of them have yet to receive their "escritura" or deed and yet they have not only already paid the value that was stated on their contract, and at least four months ago, but have recently found out, with my help, that they were charged anywhere from 25% to 80% more than the 30 brazilian homeowners for the same homes in the same condominiums!!!



I forgot to add to this, and the builder is attempting to extort them for another 10,000 reais. He says its for taxes. I took one of the homeowners to the cartorio, she owes 3,000 reais in IPTU tax, that's it. Why the 10,000? And also, their homes were supposed to be delivered, get this, 2 years ago! And it states in their contract they will receive 10% of the cost of the home back if not delivered on or before the due date.


And once again, this is not just one situation with one builder, with one buyer, I can show examples from fortaleza to Sao Paulo.
HAVE KNOW fORREST FOR MANY YEARS,,,AND THE TRUTH HURTS,,,,,X-CAPTBILL OF THE "ROAMDEEP"
written by CAPTBILLNBRAZIL CRAWFORD,,THANKS FOR INFO, April 08, 2007
HAVING READ ALL THE TRUTH ABOUT "ROAMDEEP" AND BS FROM OTHERS ,,,,

I HAVE KNOW FORREST OVER 20 YEARS AND WAS HIS BOAT CAPTAIN FOR QUITE A FEW,,,,I BELIEVE THIS ROBBERY OF THE VESSEL "ROAMDEEP" IS GETTING OUT OF HAND,,,DOWN TO NAME CALLING,I DID THIS,YOU DID THAT ETC,,,

THE TRUTH IS ,,THE "ROAMDEEP" WAS ROBBED,TAKEN BY THE BRAZILIAN NAVY,FORREST WAS DEPORTED, VESSEL DISAPEARED, AND ALL HE WANTS IS JUSTICE AND HIS BOAT BACK,,,,,,,SIMPLE AS THAT,,,,

SO IF YOU CAN HELP,,DO SO,,,IF NOT READ AND STAY AWAKE,,,YOU MAY BE NEXT,,,YOUR CAR,HOUSE,ETC

REMEMBER THE "ROAMDEEP" WAS ROBBED ,,,IT STARTS THERE,,,,

ALSO THE NAME "ROAMDEEP" CAME FROM THE 2 OF US BEING SALVAGE DIVERS BACK IN THE FLORIDA,,,,WE ROAM ALL OVER THE CARRIBEAN AND DIVE DEEP,,,SO "ROAMDEEP",,,I LIKE IT,,,

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR ATTENTION,,,,,

CAPTBILL CRAWFORD,,X-CAPT OF THE VESSEL "ROAMDEEP"
School of hard knocks
written by Professor, April 08, 2007
How sweet it is! Brazil is sweet to the taste, but bitter to the stomach.
A Green Foreigner and his money will soon be parted.
If you want a real education, see Paulo Maluf, the same people who vote for
him call him a thief with admiration. Who is more trustworthy, him or his supporters?
...
written by conceicao, April 08, 2007
You know bo this is all very interesting as my point of reference on a development like this is from the perspective of a Brasilian friend who bought early with dollar earnings into an ocean front condo development in Espirito Santo state when the real was weak and sold out at a big profit within a couple of years , plowing the profits back into dollar assets. The failure to deliver the deeds in a timely manner is inexcusable and certainly fraud if it goes on much longer. The discriminatory pricing may make sense as a financing mechanism as I would speculate that construction loans of this type are not as easy to secure as in the U.S. and it is easier to sell the higher profit units once half the project is sold out to Brasilians. No developer is going to build one of these projects on spec. I would be
interested in knowing what the deposit terms were for the Brasilian buyers vis-a-vis the foreign ones and which group made more of the pre-construction commitments to the project.
Small but makes Bo's Point
written by GTY, April 08, 2007
I just booked a week of fishing on the Rio Negro for Spetember. The Brazilian Outfitter was recommended by a Brazilan friend who lives in Sao Paulo, he had been up river to this fishing camp on several occasions. I am traveling with 3 Gringos and a Brazilian friend who lives here in Miami.

When I went to book the trip myself, I was quoted $5,000 a piece for the package. I asked my Brazilian friend who lives in Sao Paulo to book it for me, he got the exact same package for $900.00. I believe Bo's points come very close to what would be considred illegal discrimination in the US, we also have price gouging laws. That is the difference between the first world, and morally corrupt countries like Brazil.

Also, I have purchased and am developing a piece of property with Brazilian family members in Cabo Frio. I took Bo's advice and retained a Brazilian attorney to look out after everyone's (my) interest, I am footing the bill. My wifes famiy was pissed, but so far, no problems...only Brazilian contractors who keep trying to raise their price, I keep reminding them that there are many out of work, skilled contractors in Cabo Frio.
GTY: Well done
written by AES, April 08, 2007
I used to fly to Bangkok to purchase Ruby and Sapphire. You wouldn't mind taking American Express would you (they would cringe, most of them owned retail stores in major hotels so I knew it wasn´t a problem) I told them that I would pay the percentage Am Ex charged them. Because Ruby and Sapphire are blind items you have no idea how badly you got screwed till you got back to a lab in the U.S., but a call to Am Ex contesting the bill as fradulant protected the monies. Another favorite of mine was when you entered a gem cutter he would ask you what you were interested in. You might say something like 1 carat oval sapphire about $100 per carat. He would pull out a parcel of stones worth $250 a carat just to see how smart you were. If you didn't have the sense to put that parcel aside as purchased, he knew he was dealing with an idiot and you would be treated as such. I used to love to watch their faces cringe as this American had the wisdom to understand Thai Chinese gem culture.
time stands still for no one ,
written by forrest allen brown, April 08, 2007
this should be in every office and billboard all over the world ,
so all could see if govermental workers are doing there jobs the right way
To act with probity
· To treat members of the public with … courtesy, sensitivity to their rights;
· Not to harass a member of the public;
· Not to unlawfully coerce a member of the public;
· To comply with any lawful and reasonable direction given by a person having authority to give the direction
· Not to make comment that he or she is not authorised to make
Hey Forrest: My son is heading for Belieze for some bone fishing and reef diving
written by AES, April 08, 2007
Should and is are two different things. Not being a victim is an art. For some of the lessons. especially in the diamond business, the tuition is often expensive.

Try the DMV in L.A. and breath the humanity, the sensitivity.
The Civil Servant for hundreds of years has been written about, condemned and catagated. They are a hated breed, and as such take revenge for their humanity as they can. It is kind of like the waiter spitting in the food of an arrogant customer, they laugh about it in the kitchen. We all seek justice and revenge. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. I went to Paratay in January for a week, had a delightful time. Three months later I get two bills from the rental company charged to my card, one for $R 195 and one for 150, seems I got five speeding tickets, by hidden cameras, some of the fines were for going 4km over the speed limit. Very first world speed traps, well at least their making progress. Three months later, s**t. I cancelled the card, I do not intend to forever support the civil servents of Paratay. Live and learn, the price of tuition.
AES
written by forrest allen brown, April 08, 2007
I got one of thoes in SP state
1 lk over the limit $125 reals , and after paying it went to renew the tags on the car when i moved up north it showed i had not paied it so they wanted me to pay it all over again , i showed them the recipt did not matter SP & PE do not talk to one another so had to go back to SP get paper work showing it was paid , by the time i got done i was fined for not doing all the paper work within 30 of moving to the state of PE.
so sold car to brazilian with out doing another thing on the paper work , at last word he is still trying to get it done ,
good thing he works for the DMV

calif has a bunch of bad office workers there , Frank Zappa refused to stand in line to get a calif drivers permit for all the years he was there he was eather driven . or used his texas permit.
did you see where the feds want all crosess removed from goverment land and buildings , no what is going to happen when they try to take them down at our military cemataries
congress will be the death of us all
To:Bill Crawford/HAVE KNOW fORREST FOR MANY YEARS,,,AND THE TRUTH HURTS,,,,,X-CAPTBILL OF THE "ROAMDEEP
written by João da Silva, April 09, 2007
SO IF YOU CAN HELP,,DO SO,,,IF NOT READ AND STAY AWAKE,,,YOU MAY BE NEXT,,,YOUR CAR,HOUSE,ETC


Bill,well said.I would add some more. If you can help Forrest,would appreciate. If you cant,stop criticizing him.Thanks for clarifying about why his boat was named "Roamdeep".

I dont know if you read this thread completely.GTY´s wife is the daughter of an Admiral of the Brazilian Navy.She should be of help.

Who knows, when we manage to find your beloved boat, we could make a beautiful movie called "Saving of Roamdeep" or "Saving of Forrest Brown".

What a pity, Roamdeep got standed in the north. If it was in the south, I would be the first one to try to rescue her. And I am not kidding,Bill
To:GTY/Small but makes Bo's Point
written by João da Silva, April 09, 2007
My wifes famiy was pissed, but so far, no problems...only Brazilian contractors who keep trying to raise their price, I keep reminding them that there are many out of work, skilled contractors in Cabo Frio.


There is (or was) a famous saying in Brazil. "Quém não tem um cunhado é um coitado". It is NOT true and we right thinking Brazilians dont believe it. The modified saying is "Quem tem um cunhado é um coitado".GTY, I am glad that you took Bo´s advice. These cunhados and the "Sogra" can take you down the drains. The Brazilian men depend on their daughters to take care of them in their old age and try to keep them "Solteironas",while they let their sons to do whatever they want.

One of the greatest things in our country is the law that stipulates that the women also have rights on the properties of their parents.BTY, if I may give a suggestion, please buy the properties in your name (or jointly with your wife). This way, you avoid your cunhados, who are nothing but predators.
João
written by Professor, April 09, 2007
João, A question?
Do you know what the penalty in Brazil is for having two wives?
.
.
.
.
The answer is:
.
.
Having two mother-in-laws!!

TO:Herr.Professor
written by João da Silva, April 09, 2007
João, A question?
Do you know what the penalty in Brazil is for having two wives?
.
.
.
.
The answer is:
.
.
Having two mother-in-laws!!


Welcome back to the site after enjoying your Easter, with lots of cold ones.

As usual, you are wise beyond your tender age!

However, may I take the liberty of correcting your English? It is not "Mother-in-laws".It is "Mothers-in-law". While you were not paying any attention to your Ex-wife who was from Ukay, I did learn to speak Queen´s English (though I forgot most of it)

smilies/grin.gif
To:Herr.Professor
written by João da Silva, April 09, 2007
I did learn to speak Queen´s English (though I forgot most of it)


Sorry, prfessor. I meant to say that I did learn to speak Queen´s English from my ex girfriend from Ukay.
Joao
written by AES, April 09, 2007
The joke is the penalty for 'two wives' is the plural 'two mother in laws'. As one mother in law is very often punishment enough, as the mythology is oft the case.

My wife asked me to take her to someplace she had never been before, I suggested the kitchen.
(Henny Youngman)
...
written by bo, April 09, 2007
written by GTY, 2007-04-08 13:36:13

I just booked a week of fishing on the Rio Negro for Spetember. The Brazilian Outfitter was recommended by a Brazilan friend who lives in Sao Paulo, he had been up river to this fishing camp on several occasions. I am traveling with 3 Gringos and a Brazilian friend who lives here in Miami.

When I went to book the trip myself, I was quoted $5,000 a piece for the package. I asked my Brazilian friend who lives in Sao Paulo to book it for me, he got the exact same package for $900.00. I believe Bo's points come very close to what would be considred illegal discrimination in the US, we also have price gouging laws. That is the difference between the first world, and morally corrupt countries like Brazil.

Also, I have purchased and am developing a piece of property with Brazilian family members in Cabo Frio. I took Bo's advice and retained a Brazilian attorney to look out after everyone's (my) interest, I am footing the bill. My wifes famiy was pissed, but so far, no problems...only Brazilian contractors who keep trying to raise their price, I keep reminding them that there are many out of work, skilled contractors in Cabo Frio.



GTY, let me know if I can be of any help with that. I know a lot of people....brazilians. You can shoot me a mail at riceman23421@yahoo.com It may take me several days to get back to you as this addy is one that I only use to post in situations like this.


To:AES
written by João da Silva, April 09, 2007
Joao
written by AES, 2007-04-08 21:38

Ha,ha. You back too AES, after consuming gallons of Skol.You must have had a great time in the "cidade maravilhosa". I bet you know some safe places there where scholors and gentlemen like us can sit and drink
Barreado ou Churrasco?
written by Professor, April 09, 2007
As usual, you are wise beyond your tender age!

Its better to be tender beyond your wise age, than wise beyond your tender age.
Thanks for correcting my English!
Getting ready to finish off a FILET À CUBANA delivered from: l' Osteria do Piero and wash it down with a Bohemia!
http://www.losteriadopiero.com.br/
My Brazilian wife would not let me eat meat on Friday, so we are celebrating the Resurrection today with a mouth slobbering finger licking good meal!
Hell of a lot better than Fish-n-Chips, lad!
Whats on the Southern Menu today?

To:Herr.Professor
written by João da Silva, April 09, 2007
Hell of a lot better than Fish-n-Chips, lad!
Whats on the Southern Menu today?


Ah, old chap. It was finger licking meal too (BBQ ed by my wife),with "Bacalhão" that I hate.Lots of Skol too,though Bohemia is much better (AES preferes Skol ,so I decided to honor your compatriot). I dont know which state you are from the good old U.S. of A. My missis (?) loves some real good Texan Chili.

Ya all have a great meal.
Texan Chili
written by Professor, April 09, 2007
João, guess my homebase would be Phoenix, AZ. But I have lived in so many different places, I am near to the point I have no home other than where I am.
(I am feeling like Forrest now)...
I am a BIG Tex-Mex fan, in fact I made Tacos and Burritos on Saturday, forgot to
buy Re-fried Beans at the supermarket so I had use leftover Beef and Broccoli Rice from the Chinese take-out on Thursday night that I could not eat on Friday, due to the no meat ban imposed by the Pope and enforced by my wife on Saturday to make the burritos, I told my wife consider this one Big F*ckin Egg Roll.
I would give my left-nut for a big heapin bowl of Texas Chili and cornbread!!

For the last few years I was obliged to eat "Bacalhão" because we spent the Easter holiday at Sogrinha's "my 1-Mother-in-Law" I hate it with a passion I do "The Bacalhão"!!
Its hard to eat Salted COD when it is not in your culture and especially when it is still in my memory eating Fish-n-Chips (Fresh Cod, catch of the day) in the city of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyllllantysiliogogo
goch, Whales. However
the best fish I have had I think was called Tucunare, but could have been Pirarucu?
but not a "Peixe-boi" smilies/grin.gif however a "Peixe-girl" sounds good! A grilled fillet Bigger than a Texas Steak that I ate in Belém!! Yum-Yum!

Glad to hear you enjoyed your BBQ and the Skol, no better way to enjoy the day!

Well Monday is apon us and we have finished celebrating the Resurrection and turn our attention back to the Murder and Mayhem (apparently not all got Christ's message yet?) as I turn to CNN to see what is the top news I find: "Al-Sadr to followers: Fight Americans, not Iraqis" ...I guess an Army without a leader is called a band of murders? Well anyway like most large Corporations a reorganization is in order, to focus on the core business aspects!
The second coming is becoming more necessary with each passing day!
GOD please hurry! Save us from the "Bacalhão"
...
written by bo, April 09, 2007
School of hard knocks
written by Professor, 2007-04-08 11:57:37

How sweet it is! Brazil is sweet to the taste, but bitter to the stomach.
A Green Foreigner and his money will soon be parted.
If you want a real education, see Paulo Maluf, the same people who vote for
him call him a thief with admiration.
Who is more trustworthy, him or his supporters?



Very true Prof. I've met some here that seem to be proud that they've made money unethically. Several years ago, shortly after my british partners and myself began investing in brazil, a local businessman that I know approached me and we had a long discussion. His advice to me was that I put a percentage on top of everything we did. If we bought land, put 10% on the top and stick it in my pocket. When we contracted lawyers, architects, etc, stick a percentage on top for myself. He told me that 25 years or so ago he worked for an american company and became friends with the bosses of this company here in our city. He said that whenever any of them sent him to buy something that this is exactly what he did, many times charging two, three, and even more, times the value of what they sent him to purchase, and "eu cresceu assim" he stated, in other words, this is how he got his start financially. Today he owns three restaurants in the malls here and one gas station. While he was telling me the story and giving me his "advice" he wasn't ashmed one bit, thought nothing of it. I remember thinking to myself, "well, you have what you have today because you're a thief!"
A GENTE SOMO POBRI I IGUINORANTI
written by POBREZINHA DA ROCINHA, April 09, 2007
MIA NUSSA
NUM TEIN KUMIDA, NUM SOBRÔ PAUM, A GENTE TÁ KUM FOMI
AJUDA EU.........PURFAVÔ. KERU KUMÊ smilies/cry.gif
TO:Bo/eu cresceu assim
written by João da Silva, April 09, 2007
He told me that 25 years or so ago he worked for an american company and became friends with the bosses of this company here in our city. He said that whenever any of them sent him to buy something that this is exactly what he did, many times charging two, three, and even more, times the value of what they sent him to purchase, and "eu cresceu assim" he stated, in other words, this is how he got his start financially. Today he owns three restaurants in the malls here and one gas station.


And I bet his American bosses didnt know that this "puxa saco" was enriching himself at their cost. Unfortunately you came to this country only 10 years ago. The things used to be very different in the 70's and 80's,at least in the south.The jobs were plenty and professional ethics were of very high standard.People used to trust each other both in businesses and in their interpersonal realtionship.

I dont know if you read www.terra.com.br.A few months ago, I was reading the comments in the forum there. One participant made a brief statement: " I am 74 years old and was always honest. Now I am paying the price for my honesty.So do not follow my example".

I dont think that our elected officials are going to do much about it and the few people who want to change the situation will be eased out.The cancer "eu cresceu assim" has taken over our society and it will be hard to cure it. I am sure you have been following the domestic news though the Regional and National newspapers.

Now,who is responsible for the mess we are in? Of course, the goddamed AMERICANS smilies/grin.gif

João
written by Professor, April 10, 2007
dont know if you read www.terra.com.br.A few months ago


I read the terra forums now and again! The Brazil bashing on this site does not even come close to the American bashing on the Terra site. It is like having 30
"ch.c's" chatting at the same time. Kim Jong-il would be proud!
food for thought
written by forrest allen brown, April 10, 2007
where in the good book does it say we should not eat meat on fridays .
my is a simpler god it be there when i came into the world and i hope it will be there when i am ready to check out .
all things in the middle are left up to me , i guess i am his longest running sit com

terra.com think i should post the roamdeep story there ??
TO:Forrest/Herr.Professor
written by João da Silva, April 10, 2007
Forrest, I think you should do it. Your wife may be able to translate your story into Portuguese. For God´s sake, there must be some honest Brazilian investigative reporters who could go deep into the story of yours. If your wife is from PB, she should be able to phone up such reporters in Terra,Estadão, folha,etc;

Herr.Professor, this Terra belongs to a Spanish group called "Telefonica", if my failing memory serves me right. You have to pick up the right topic and read what the participants say about our current "Der Fuerer". Especially of interest is the topic about the Air Traffic controllers´s strike.

Will come back and talk to ya all later
To: Forrest
written by João da Silva, April 10, 2007
Listen Forrest,you,Herr.Prof,Bo,AES,GTY,Ric,etc are all married to Brazilian citizens.The Brazilian ladies (including my beloved wife of years) are a tough bunch.

1) Bo is closer to PB than I am. He knows the President of OAB.

2) GTY´s father in law was an Admiral in the Brazilian Navy.He has promised to consult his wife after her return from CA and give his suggestions.

3) If I were you, I would ask your wife to find out the names of the senators and federal deputies from PB and send in e-mail messages to them all explaining your situation.

4) I still think that the U.S. embassay could do a little more for your cause.

5) From my part, I will be trying to find out the name of an investigative reporter. I have an idea,but I am not willing to disclose it at this point of time.
been there done that
written by forrest allen brown, April 10, 2007
when this first happend i wrote to every one of them the only one i received was from Toma , and he said i should try to let the courts settle it .
the mayor of JP could do nothing , to the US embassy it is a civil matter and cant under law interseed in the roamdeep .
marina brazil said they did a proper investagation into the matter .
i sent them all my paper work , less than a week later it came back in the mail in the same rubber band it was sent in , and in the same envlope . so much for that admril and his report .
will get to send it to terra but more than not they wont do a thing with it as i have sent it to all the major papers in Brazil and around the world .
no papers but 2 boating put it to print and 2 websites put it on the net but one took it of as the man that owns the marina in JP wrote them ans said it was a lie and hurting his business , so i sent them more papers and the local JP paper where it was in print to this day nothing yet .

I AM NOT SMART , I JUST STAY WITH THINGS LONGER
To:H.Professor
written by João da Silva, April 10, 2007
Kim Jong-il would be proud!


Ah,who says Americans are ill informed. You must have served as the ambassador of U.S. in Pyogang (is the spelling correct?) .BTW, how is our buddy Kim Jr. doing these days?
What a bunch of crap
written by A brazilian, April 10, 2007
It even seems that there isn't "morally corrupt" individuals in the US as well. It's only natural that someone will try to take advantage of you if you are a foreigner. See how much an average american employee makes and how much an illegal alien makes. See the conditions both work in. Don't come with this crap of "those bad brazilians tried to fool me in business", you do worse.

I was seeing a TV show the other day, by chance because I was just passing the channels, it was about the middle east and how the largest world powers exploited that place. You were ripping them off big time, they were paid peanuts while big oil corporations would profit as hell. Not sure how "good" it is today, but surely it's not like it was before.

Get over it! Every game of deception and theft Europe and the US taught us how to do it. In the matters of corruption brazilians are amateurs, at least in the US and Europe people bother to make it look "legal".
Brazilian
written by GTY, April 10, 2007
I never thought I would say this...but you have a very good point. While all the messages in this string are about unfortuante things that have happened to us on a personal level while dealing with Brazilians, Brazil does not have a lock on corruption.

In fact, most of the things we have written about are very small in the scheme of things (sorry Forest even the Roamdeep)when compared to the tens of thousands of Enron employes and stock holders who literaly lost everything due to corporate corruption, it's to bad Law died before he could go to jail, I hope Skiling has a new sized a*****e. The Brazilian culture is built around small corruption and yes it is annoying to pay the sreet cop 5 real to park on the side walk, but when compared to Worldcom and the no bid contracts for Halliburtin, the cop is laughable, those are in the corruption Hall of Fame.

So Brazilian, while I have learned to be very cautious when dealing with your countrymen, it is as easy to get screwed here as well, just ask all those folks who are being foreclosed on right now due to predatory practices by unethical and perhaps illegal subprime mortagage providers. We have had two companies fold up here in Florida, losing almost 500 employees and guess who ends up holding the bag...US taxpayers. If there is a way to make a quick buck on the unfortunate or unaware it is human nature that there will be many to do so...but the Bible says there will be a Judgement Day.

As far as illegal immigration, isn't it interesting that citizens from other countries would rather be "expolited" in the US, rather than live in their home countries. What is behind that?
...
written by A brazilian, April 10, 2007
What is behind that?


Fantasies and dreams with a bit of adventure, nothing more. Some people watch so many movies that they end up believing they will be rich, famous and become rock starts overnight. The difference is that in Brazil they see the reality, the US is a "dreamland where everyone is rich" in their heads. There's a clear perception of "easy money" associated with the US. Money without working so much or studying so much.

But there are always those types that would be working in the civil construction in Brazil because they don't know any better. So for them to work in the US is a good thing because they will be making dollars instead, while sharing a room with other 6 illegals, and then they come back with the hope of starting something.
Another thing
written by A brazilian, April 10, 2007
I don't seem to understand why americans make such a big deal of people that submit themselves to indignant treatment, you don't seem to be acquainted with humans at all. One interesting feature of such animals is some very small and human feeling called "pride".

Such people, the ones that clean toilets in the US, wouldn't dare to do the same kind of job in Brazil because they need to show off "status" to their families and friends. Here such job is horrible, but there it is different. Why? Because there no one will see them, and the ignorants back home will think of him as a hero because "he will be rich" just like in the movies.

There were lots of articles and interviews with people that did such things, some aren't really happy about it. In your head it seems that those people love to share a small room with other 6 illegals and save every dollar for coming back.

As someone else already said, such individual will always be a second class citizen, no matter where he goes.
What a bunch of crap!
written by bo, April 10, 2007
written by A brazilian, 2007-04-09 22:29:43

It even seems that there isn't "morally corrupt" individuals in the US as well. It's only natural that someone will try to take advantage of you if you are a foreigner. See how much an average american employee makes and how much an illegal alien makes.



Well, hello there Abe, another idiotic comment I see. So, you're going to compare a foreigner, who is in another country legally, with a foreigner who is in another country illegally?

Don't give me that crap! If foreigners were treated they way the vast majority are here in brazil, why would millions, upon millions, upon millions be mortgaging as well as risking their lives to go there?

You're statement proves that you have never spent any significant time, legally at least, in the U.S., England, Australia, Canada, etc.
And another thing...
written by bo, April 10, 2007
First of all, the fact that many illegals are doing blue collar jobs are simply because they don't have the education, speak the language, nor have the skill sets, to be in positions of management, sales, etc, in the U.S. Their level of education is the reason they have the jobs they do as well as not speaking the language. Tell me, what kind of job could one get in brazil if he didn't speak portuguese besides being an english teacher? What kind of job could a gringo get in brazil with a high school diploma or lower, and speaking a low to mid level of portuguese? I can tell you one thing, he/she better prepare himself to make no more than 500 dollars per month.

You just have to LOVE these frothing idiots that try and compare foreigners in another country, who are LEGAL, who own companies, provide jobs, or they are INVESTING money in another country, to foreigners in a different country that have broke the laws of said country on their very entrance into it, or simply get a 90 day visa and they turn into the guest that just wouldn't leave.

Quite a different situation now isn't it.

And GTY, the U.S. had Enron and Worldcom, and what happened afterwards? New legislation making penalties even more severe than previously. CEO's and the main people responsible went to prison or have since died. Some investors that lost money are recouping small percentages. Large companies such as Arthur Anderson exist no more. Who wants to be the next Worldcom today?

What happens in Brazil? Last year a federal gov't. study found that 87% of ALL brazilian municipalities had accounting irregularities......87%! And naturally, those are just the ones they discovered. Paulo Maluf steals 450 million dollars of public money, spends 39 days in jail, and where is he today? Congress! Did he at least have to pay the money back??? Hell no!

Fernando Collar steals 200 million dollars, forced to resign, didn't spend one second in jail, has a 5 million dollar home in your neck of the woods, Miami, did he have to pay the money back? Hell no! Where is he today? Brazilian congress!

Now you tell me GTY, with 40 plus million brazilian citizens making LESS THAN 2 dollars a day out of country with 180 million citizens, which would you say is worse?

Certainly not trying to justify Enron or Worldcom, but please, I don't want to hear this crap and hear people try to equivalate it with brazilian corruption. Brazilian corruption extends quite a bit further than the "cerveja" to the traffic cop. It is engrained in the society. It exists on all levels, and for a gringo even moreso. Do you think that taxi cab drivers in bumf**k mississippi try to screw a mexican on the cab fare because he isn't an american? Do you think that an american businessman who is selling a house or a piece of land and when a mexican, or brazilian, or an englishman, or whomever from another country enters his door as soon as he discovers the potential buyer is not an american that his eyes get as big as saucers and his price doubles or triples? Do you think it's the "norm" in the U.S. for a senator, or congressmen, hell, even down to city councilmen, to make literally hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, in kickbacks and corruption?

My point is, and I know this as sure as I'm sitting here, here in brazil "gringos" are thought to be stupid millionaires, which I think is quite funny, and the vast majority of people that he encounters will try and take advantage of him for that simple fact alone. That is NOT the way it is in the U.S.


And one last thing...
written by bo, April 10, 2007
If anyone likes, I'm sure I can get numerous english people that I know that have bought property here in brazil to tell their story. Many of them also have homes in the states, in particular florida. Want to hear THEIR story on the two places? Do you think that there are people trying to rook them at every corner in the states?? smilies/grin.gif
Agree too Bo
written by GTY, April 10, 2007
There is a difference, a large one, between the US and Brazil, it's described by definition, one is a develped country, a super power, the other is a "developing country" a country's whose history has been one of corruption and shame against there own people and continues to be. Brazil's history is similar to other countries in the region, rife with corruption, explotation and the blood of it's less fortunate.

While the US has corruption, sometimes on a large scale, the difference (as you stated) is that we have the rule of law, you are correct, while people have lost everything in the corporate scandals of the 90's, the justice system which has integrity (unlike Brazil), discovered the corruption and jailed the most powerful players, something Brazil has no stomach for. New laws like the Sarbanes-Oxley Act now place much higher scrutiny on public corporations, in fact, I would say it puts the fear of God into them. Brazil on the other hand, continues down the same path it has for centuries, throwing a minnow in jail, while the sharks swim free, Maluf is a prime example, but the Brazil people re-elect him???? What does that say? I am not sure I could ever understand. The Rebublican congress lost power due to a few less than honest congress people they are now in prison, on trial, or forced to resigns, the Brazilan congress looks out for corrupt politicans, in fact, encourages corruption.

You see in the US, while it sounds childish, people really come to congress to serve their consituents. Most give up jobs that pay much more to become public servents, unfortuanatly, after time, power can corrupt them, that is why we should inact term limits. But in Brazil, most politicans come from humble back grounds (Lula), some from power families and they look at politcis not as a chance to help their people, but fatten their bank accounts. Again, our dishonest congress men and women (Duke Cunningham) when caught, get long jail terms, in Brazil, they get re-elected.

As for illegals, it is interesting that most here in the US sure don't feel expolited, once they learn the language and the way of life, most make enough money to not only live like human beings, but send money home. But the day of reckoning has arrived, illegal immigration is in the spot light and I sincerly believe that this time the US governement has the stomach to deal with it, the American people are demanding it. Still, the battle is being waged on two sides, the Right who wants illegals here for cheap labor and to hold up investors stock prices and profits and the Left who wants to legalize illegal immigration to gain new voters...while there is a lot of dialog and there seems to be more enforcement, especially since large fines for companies that employ illegals, that will have an impact. For the first time since I have been alive, illegal immigrants are frightened. My wife as a Brazilian has many freinds here illegaly, most do very well, several have American born sons and daughters serving in the military and deployed in Iraq, the solution to the problem is not as simple as many who blog on this site. But action is on the horizon. Bush, who originaly pissed of the right with his plans for Amnesty has now backtracked and said that after a three year guest worker stint, the illegal should return home and apply for permanent residency, that went over the illegal community like a lead ballon. He also has said that there will be a $3,000 fee to be a Guest Worker and if they want to return as premanent residents they will have to pay a $10,000 fine and all back taxes, that should make the Coyotes happy. I like the zero tolerence part of the plan for illegals who commit crimes, do it once, do your time, and be deported...now that makes sense.

If the Brazilian wants to talk about explotation, he should talk about the sugar workers in the north, the miners who work at the point of a gun. At least here they have a chance, if not the illegal immigrant certainly their children, in Brazil, there is no hope for hundreds of thousands no matter what generation...he defends it, when it should be a national shame.
Unfair and unbalanced
written by Professor, April 10, 2007
There is a difference, a large one, between the US and Brazil, it's described by definition, one is a develped country, a super power, the other is a "developing country"


The above quote is a good point! If you think about it why would anyone want to attempt to compare the U.S. to Brazil or vise versa? These two countries are not in the same classification. A better comparison is to compare the U.S. to other countries in the same classification. Also to compare Brazil to the same countries in their classification.
It would be better to compare Brazil with most any S. American country, which some are more successful in areas and some are less. I find it interesting when I talk to another person from any Latin American country and listen to their gripes about Brazil, they are exactly the same gripes you hear from Americans, is this a coincidence? I think not, because the gripes can be heard from Brazilians who wish to focus on the same realities.
I mentioned once that the GDP of Texas is greater than all of Brazil to show the unfairness of the comparison, however the argument here turned into how
arrogant Americans are! Arrogant? of course! Why? Because the leaders in a race
are always arrogant to the people behind. Now if the leaders in the race take compassion on those behind, during the race and stop to help them gain a better position thus loosing theirs, then their arrogance turns into stupidity and they should have not run the race at all!
Unfortunately Brazilian Politicians seem to be using this same tactic and leaving the people behind, when they should stop and take compassion on thier countrymen and help them to gain a better position, instead of trying to win the race for themselves.


To:Professor
written by João da Silva, April 10, 2007
Unfortunately Brazilian Politicians seem to be using this same tactic and leaving the people behind, when they should stop and take compassion on thier countrymen and help them to gain a better position, instead of trying to win the race for themselves


Our politicians expect their countrymen to show compassion on them ,forgive their past sins , help them to get reelected and gain better positions for themselves, their amigos,cunhados,cunhadas,etc;. Of course we oblige them all the time.
Bo and others
written by A brazilian, April 10, 2007
You don't seem to get what I mean. I cited one example, of oil corporations exploiting middle east (it was a long time ago, for what I saw on TV) by paying peanuts for their product while profitting enormously. I think this behavior fits in the description someone gave here that "some companies charge different prices if they know you are a foreigner". You do worse. Exploitation is the law in this world.

Don't come with this talk "we can't compare both countries". Corruption is corruption! The only difference is that in Brazil corrupts are shameless, in the US they try to look legal and steal a lot more than the amateurish brazilians.

About your question, what job could one get? Surely not a intellectual job since he lacks the qualification, just like in the US. But they could do a variety of things, and make little or more money depending on the case. Many people that never went to college started businesses and got rich and successful!

You talk about people living like "human beings" by working in Burger King. I seriously doubt it, in order for someone to live like a human being, even by Brazil standards, this person would need to be more fixed (like having a home where you can keep your belongings, definitely not by sharing a small room with other 6). The fact is that temporary workers that try to save money in the US will save money even by not eating too much and eating only cheap food, zero entertainment, zero "tourism", zero everything, zero school. Is this living like a "human being"? Not for me. It has been shown a thousand times how the "guest workers" live, they live like s**t!

The "slave work" in Brazil is one of the "favorite" topics of the brazilian bashers, although they can't prove it, it's assumed to be truth. PROVE IT! A letter from the brazilian embassador was already posted in of these accusations that shows a bit of the truth.
João
written by Professor, April 10, 2007
Our politicians expect their countrymen to show compassion on them ,forgive their past sins , help them to get reelected and gain better positions for themselves, their amigos,cunhados,cunhadas,etc;. Of course we oblige them all the time.

The thief you know is better than the thief you do not know!
Brazilian
written by GTY, April 10, 2007
How many times can you puke up the same nonsense? Do you really thing that every illegal immigrant here is working in a Burger King, why, just because you want it to be that way doesn't make it true. Most fast food workers are white trash, Burger King, McDonlads and the rest are scared to death to hire illegals, they fines would be outrageous. Your perception of the US comes simply from Globo and Novelas and your own twisted mind of you wanting people to do poorly, I know it just kills you that many of your country people leave the country they love for lack of opportunity and make good lives, some make REALLY good lives here in the US.

I will admit, that there are situations and places lwhere immigrants live 6 to an apartment, these are the ones you want them all to be, but this is a sacrifice they make to build better lives for their familes back home, but I would also submit, that this type of illegal immigrant is Mexican, most from the poor Indian states of the South. they have been here and coming her for centuries and will continue to do so. Braziians are of the new immigrant, most are savy, smart and young, at least smart enough to leave the s**tholes they live in Brazil.

Brazilians on the other hand come with some skills, be it painters, carpenters, masons, ect., yes, some begin by cleaning houses, but at least here in South Florida we pay our Brazilian cleaning lady US$90 for about 4 hours of work once a week, if she can do 2 or 3 houses a day...well, she make more in a day than they would in Brazil for a month as an empregada bringing up someone elses rich snot nosed kids, being treated like s**t and perhaps being raped a few times a week, by the man of the house and not being able to quit because she needs the job. Next thing you know these cleaning people have saved enough to open a samll business like nail and hair salons, Brazilian resturaunts. One of my best friends is a pool tile contractor, works for the big home builders on a cash basis, employes a dozen or so Brazilians at around $15.00 and hour and just purchased a home for $500,000 in West Palm Beach, his wife has a Green Card, he has been here for 10 years without one.

I would like you to give me some examples of poor Brazilians who never went to college and are now rich like you state in your blog entry, prove that. Are you telling me (us) that Brazil holds the same opportunities for Brazilians as American does for Americans'? Man, are you drinking the Kool Aide, it must piss you off that Bo is developing large Condo units in the North or that I am developing a nice piece of property with family in Cabo Frio, my guess is that you have little more than the computer you type on and your rage is fueled by your envy, envy of both Brazilians and Gringos who are doing better than you, and especially the Gringos who are doing better than you in your own country. Give Bo a call, maybe he can use another handyman to help clean up around the construction site.
Raising my hand!
written by Professor, April 10, 2007
I would like you to give me some examples of poor Brazilians who never went to college and are now rich like you state in your blog entry, prove that. Are you telling me (us) that Brazil holds the same opportunities for Brazilians as American does for Americans'?

I know, I know, I know!!!
Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva
In the U.S. he would have never been elected as president!
Does this qualify???
To:Professor
written by João da Silva, April 10, 2007
The thief you know is better than the thief you do not know!


Hi Prof, my mother-in-law (now fortunately deceased) used to say the same to justify the actions of her beloved sons (my cunhados). Though I think it would be hard to convince Bo, who likes to refer to such people as "banda do ladrões"!

I know, I know, I know!!!
Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva
In the U.S. he would have never been elected as president!
Does this qualify???


By any chance, is your second comment related to the first one?
smilies/grin.gif
The right not to choose!
written by Professor, April 10, 2007
By any chance, is your second comment related to the first one?


smilies/grin.gif

One good thing about being American is you are not obliged to vote for the thief you do not know.

my mother-in-law (now fortunately deceased)

Did the Bacalhau do her in?
To:GTY
written by João da Silva, April 11, 2007
Give Bo a call, maybe he can use another handyman to help clean up around the construction site.


Why should "A Brazilian" give Bo a call, when he probably owns half of Cabo Frio, properties in SC,PR and RG?

I agree that he is quite laquecious (?),but you guys miss reading between lines. Sorry, GTY.
To:Professor
written by João da Silva, April 11, 2007
Did the Bacalhau do her in?
.

Funny she hated Bacalhão too. I think that what did her in was her old age (92), her indifferent sons and her caring son-in-law(?).
...
written by A brazilian, April 11, 2007
Most fast food workers are white trash, Burger King, McDonlads and the rest are scared to death to hire illegals, they fines would be outrageous.


I have seen with my own eyes otherwise. The majority of the fast food workers were mexicans or some other nationality. You could hear them chatting in spanish while you were waiting for your order.

I know it just kills you that many of your country people leave the country they love for lack of opportunity and make good lives, some make REALLY good lives here in the US.


If your destiny is to clean toilets for a living, then cleaning toilets in the US is better, I agree. But in any other case, no, it's not true.

being treated like s**t and perhaps being raped a few times a week,


Haha. Less, less. Your claims would be passable as "truth" to clueless people if you didn't exaggerate so much.

my guess is that you have little more than the computer you type on and your rage is fueled by your envy,


Haha. So all the endless argumentation against the racist and xenophobic non sense in this forum is due to "envy", because you know, we brazilians "envy" the american "fast food" way of life? Can't you do any better? Is this your worst insult? I have been there, I have seen it and lived it. I know pretty well how things work there and why Brazil is the best place for me.

BTW, the case I cited about people without college starting big businesses you should look it up. I saw one on TV recently of a guy that started a store and then things improved, soon he had many stores and was rich. There are many, and I think the fact those people don't have a college help them because they don't have that kind of "I am too good for this job" feeling that most educated people have regarding manual work. Lula is another example, he came from abject poverty.

Basically all brazilians have ancestors that immigrated to Brazil at some point and have the same story, some more, others less, of finding opportunities and having a good life. This country was built by immigrants.

If you wife (?) and her friends are of the "toilet cleaning" type, too bad for you, but not all brazilians are like that. And I wouldn't be proud of the exploitation of illegal immigrants. This only proves what I said that "it is only natural that people will try to take advantage of you if you are foreigner".
To: Herr.Professor
written by João da Silva, April 11, 2007
Haha. So all the endless argumentation against the racist and xenophobic non sense in this forum is due to "envy", because you know, we brazilians "envy" the american "fast food" way of life? Can't you do any better?
.

Here "A Brazilian" makes his point. He (as well as I) hate fast food.We (and you ) prefer some good Tex Mex food. Especially Chili,baked beans and corn bread. I hate fast food and your food courts (?) dont impress me either

See, professor,you being from Arizona will fully agree with his statement. May be he doesnt like "bacalhão" also.

A Brazilian,welcome to the club of haters of fast food and bacalhão.
João
written by Professor, April 11, 2007
Only original Southwestern Mexican food for me Pancho!

Since you can read between the lines of AB normal's spew, perhaps that you could translate it so that we may gain a higher respect for him?

I think Tico is burning Teco's rosca inside AB normal's coconut.
In the words of GTY "How many times can you puke up the same nonsense?'

He has no clue what so ever about the U.S.
based on his above statements.
Its like listening to the Don Imus show interviewing AB normal....

...
written by Ric, April 11, 2007
Why did 580 a.m. in Fresno drop Imus? At least a year ago. Some people just don´t get him.
To:Professor
written by João da Silva, April 11, 2007
Since you can read between the lines of AB normal's spew, perhaps that you could translate it so that we may gain a higher respect for him?


" A Brazilian"= Arrogant Brazilian. From what I understand from his posts,he has been to several countries including U.S.of A. He may be a software engineer or a lawyer,though he is likely to be the former.I have a feeling that he is from the South.He has traveled to several countries including the East.I can go on and on,but there is something about him that identifies with us, the friendly southerners!

Now, Phonix, we have a problem and it is up to you to identify and solve.Re GTY, I think he is full of hot air. He changes his position according to the direction of the wind.At one point he agreed with A Brazilian and another point, he sided with Bo and scolded "A Brazilian". I found him extremely inconsistant and incoherent. Not a reliable guy and unlike any Americans from your part of U.S.

BTW, never ever talk ill of Texans. And buy "Gephardt" Chili Powder. I dont know if you guys in Arizona know this brand!.

Ah,professor, I drove through Phoenix a long time ago. An interesting city,though quite hot.

João
written by Professor, April 11, 2007
Ah,professor, I drove through Phoenix a long time ago. An interesting city,though quite hot.

As us Arizonans would say: It was hotter than a two peckered Billy Goat there!

Gephardt" Chili Powder, can not say that I have tried it, but it does ring a bell!
I just wish I could find some Chili Powder here in Sampa! I like to make my own
Chili, but can not find any Chili Powder!!

AB normal gives me gas!!

Speaking of gas, the better the Chili Powder the more your ass-h*le will burn, the more your ass-h*ole burns the better the Chili Powder!!

I now leave you with a song:


Beans, beans, are good for your heart,
They Make you strong and make you fart.
A fart is a bubble of compressed air,
Which gives the body ease.
It warms the bed on a frosty night,
And suffocates the fleas!



Source: circa 1960's, USA, UK
Beans beans beans beans,
Beans be ans beans beans,
Beans are good for a broken heart,
The more you eat the more you fart,
The more you fart the better you feel,
So eat you beans in every meal,
Beans beans beans beans,
Beans beans beans beans...

repeat...

Song sang at least in the Yorkshire area in many a playground!

Beans beans the musical fruit.
The more you eat,
The more you toot.


Still a classic playground rhyme in current use as evidenced by Bart Simpson a few years back (see previous definition):
Beans, beans the musical fruit
The more you eat, the more you toot!
Beans, beans they are good for your heart.
The more you eat, the more you fart.
The more you fart, the more you eat,
The more you sit on the toilet seat!

Alternate version of 2nd verse:

The more you fart the better you feel
So let's have beans for every meal

Yet more:

Beans beans good for your heart,
The more you eat the more you fart.
The more you fart the better you feel,
Beans beans oh what a thrill!

Source: circa. current USA, UK, AUS
Beans, Beans the magical fruit,
The more you eat, the more you toot,
The more you toot the better you feel,
So lift your leg and let it squeal!


Beans, beans, good for your heart
The more you eat the more you fart.
The more you fart the better you feel
So eat beans with every meal.



Ric
written by Professor, April 11, 2007
written by Ric, 2007-04-10 21:26:04

Why did 580 a.m. in Fresno drop Imus? At least a year ago. Some people just don´t get him.


I do not know why he got dropped? But he is Big trouble now!
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/br...79,00.html
...
written by GTY, April 11, 2007
You guys win, to much of a clicky club, I'm outta here...good luck all!
To:Professor
written by João da Silva, April 11, 2007
As us Arizonans would say: It was hotter than a two peckered Billy Goat there


You Arizonans stole this saying from my Texan friends!. Ya all think that Texas,being a Lone Star state, you can piss upon Texas!!

I loved the song you Arizonans composed on "Fart". It is true,though. An honest man eats beans and gives a good fart.The beans are good for your heart,your soul and cú too.

I dont know what you think,but I am of firm belief that farts (being compressed air) can be harnessed to drive the turbines and produce electricity . I dont know why the world is bothering about nuclear energy,ethonal,etc; The world should plant more beans and make the people eat every day and store the fart in a giant "energy power house". We should make a documentary on this issue and compete with Al Gore and name this as "Very Convenient Truth"

Jokes a part, I will read the label on "Gephardt" chili powder tomorrow and tell you how to make it.The beautiful thing about Brazil is that all the ingredients are grown here and available in the Supermarkets.All you need is a mini grinder (Walita or Melita) to blend them.It does not cost much to buy it,if you dont have it already.

You take care and keep on eating beans and farting. Remember: A man who farts loudly has nothing to hide smilies/grin.gif
To:Professor/Ric
written by João da Silva, April 11, 2007
written by GTY, 2007-04-10 22:44:13

You guys win, to much of a clicky club, I'm outta here...good luck all!


You two pissed GTY off.I wasnt responsible and dont put the blame on the Brazilians .How can ya all so cruel to a fellow American? smilies/grin.gif
Joaõ
written by Professor, April 11, 2007
Those Floridians are often moody, once he cools down he will be
back and after AB normal once again!!
smilies/wink.gif
...
written by bo, April 11, 2007
The "slave work" in Brazil is one of the "favorite" topics of the brazilian bashers, although they can't prove it, it's assumed to be truth. PROVE IT! A letter from the brazilian embassador was already posted in of these accusations that shows a bit of the truth.



Wow, and the denial of such a terrible reality is truly shameful. You really should be ashamed of yourself Abe, brazilian NGO's and others have admitted that there are approximately 25,000 brazilians working in slave labor situations throughout brazil. Here is an article from the last several hours!

From the beginning of the year till the end of March, 583 Brazilians who were working as slaves were released by the Brazilian government's Mobile Inspection Group from the Labor and Employment Ministry. Last year, during the same period, the number of slave workers was smaller: 565 people.

The new number was announced this Tuesday, April 10, by the Labor Ministry's communication office. In the first quarter, the Mobile Group guaranteed the payment of close to 918,000 reais (about half a million dollars) in labor indemnities. The government held 17 operations in 40 farms.

Last year, during the same period, 51 farms were visited in 21 operations, which brought almost 763,000 reais (US$ 377,000 reais) in compensations.

Pará, in the North, was the state with the largest number of released workers, 192. It was followed by Piauí (155), Bahia (97), Maranhão (7smilies/cool.gif, Goiás (36) and Mato Grosso (25).

The activities with more employees exploited as slaves are cattle breeding, agriculture, and wood, coal and vegetable exploration.

Among those who participated in the Mobile Group there were labor inspectors, Federal Police chiefs and agents, and prosecutors from the Labor Public Ministry.

At the time of their rescue, workers receive the money they are owed plus unemployment insurance, food, housing and transportation to their hometowns. They also receive legal assistance and are included in federal social programs.

Exports

Brazil exported over US$ 11.7 billion in agricultural products between January and March this year. The value is 20% greater than exports in the same period of 2006, when the country sold abroad a total of US$ 9.795 billion.

Imports also grew in the first quarter of 2007: they were 33% greater than in the first quarter of last year, when they totaled US$ 2.012 billion.

The sectors that contributed the most to the growth in exports, according to figures supplied by the Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Supply, were meats, sugar and alcohol, coffee and fruit juice.

The ministry also pointed out the increase in exports to the Middle East, the European Union (EU) and Africa, respectively 79.2%, 23.5% and 20.6% in March this year when compared to the same month in 2006.



But I'm sure this is all just a propoganda campaign orchestrated by the CIA, huh Abe? smilies/cheesy.gif
...
written by bo, April 11, 2007
The fact is that temporary workers that try to save money in the US will save money even by not eating too much and eating only cheap food, zero entertainment, zero "tourism", zero everything, zero school. Is this living like a "human being"? Not for me. It has been shown a thousand times how the "guest workers" live, they live like s**t!



And tell me this Abe, you're talking about illegals, in the states, and you're generalizing them as you have described, which as GTY has pointed out, simply is not factual, although we know you would love it to be. Now, what about brazilian citizens, born and bred, the husband and wife both making minimum wage or slightly better, 700-900 reais a month. What's their reality like? Do you think they don't live like s**t?

I'll guarantee ya this, I'll take being an illegal in the United States anyday over being legal in brazil and making minimum wage!
...
written by bo, April 11, 2007
...
written by A brazilian, 2007-04-10 19:40:12

Most fast food workers are white trash, Burger King, McDonlads and the rest are scared to death to hire illegals, they fines would be outrageous.



I have seen with my own eyes otherwise. The majority of the fast food workers were mexicans or some other nationality. You could hear them chatting in spanish while you were waiting for your order.



Oh, so you've been in the U.S. in the last 9-12 months?? I doubt it.
...
written by A brazilian, April 11, 2007
Wow, and the denial of such a terrible reality is truly shameful. You really should be ashamed of yourself Abe, brazilian NGO's and others have admitted that there are approximately 25,000 brazilians working in slave labor situations throughout brazil. Here is an article from the last several hours!


NGOs!? Haha. They are only interested in exploiting "social problems", even creating them as it is in the case of racis, for the profit of its own members. They will always say there are bad things, because that's the way they survive! Otherwise there wouldn't be a need for them to exist.

But I'm sure this is all just a propoganda campaign orchestrated by the CIA, huh Abe?


Wow 565 people. You could find a lot more sharing a small room with other 6 and working 12 hours a day in the US, while being paid peanuts and without any rights assured.

simply is not factual, although we know you would love it to be


It is factual. You are such a bunch of deniers, you simply don't know how the life of those exploited people is. They need to live like s**t or they wouldn't save any money. It's a hard life.

Oh, so you've been in the U.S. in the last 9-12 months?? I doubt it.


Actually yes. Almost all maids in the hotel I stayed were mexicans. Almost all people working on fast food stores and supermarkets were mexicans. Americans would work more in positions where some interaction with customers was needed, such as vendors at the circuit city or best buy. One of the cities I stayed in had a HUGE number of mexicans. It's impossible for the government not to know that there were illegals there, that's why I say the US allows it to happen.

And BTW, sometimes there are stories of people that went to the US in order to work on TV. They are interviewed and they tell they wouldn't do it again, because their life sucked there. It's not the interpretation of the reporters, they say it themselves. Only a small minority of the illegal immigrants are actually successful the way GTY described.
...
written by A brazilian, April 11, 2007
Actually yes. Almost all maids in the hotel I stayed were mexicans...


And that's because Brazil is "racist" according to some lunatics. Where I am from I can find blonde and blue-eyed maids quite often. Ironic, isn't it?
i have
written by forrest allen brown, April 11, 2007
just spent 4 months in the USA
ever hurd of taco bell , burger king
luxor
MGM Grand hotels and casinos
all have a teams of people fighting to proess all there forgin workers into the system to keep them in country and with in the law .so they become first class citisen with all the rights under the laws of the united states .

send us your broken down people we will put the hope back into there eyes , food in there stomacs , and restore there pride in them selves
that is what the united states does for its people . and other goverments do not understand .
you can come from any where and become a citisen of the US and have all the rights given to you .

NO WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD
AB Normal
written by Professor, April 11, 2007
Actually yes. Almost all maids in the hotel I stayed were mexicans. Almost all people working on fast food stores and supermarkets were mexicans.


Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas have the largest Hispanic populations.
You can go to certain areas of these states any find a larger number of Hispanics and in the same states in different areas you will find fewer. Depends on where you go and to what part of the state.
Illegals or w*****ks as we call them there are not working for legitimate retail outlets in the face of the public, they can not, one because they can not speak English! Secondly even before the 80's when it was not as much of a big deal
to hire illegals the situation was the same.
In the above mentioned states there is a HIGH population of Hispanics (Mexicans) but they are citizens (Americans) and for them to acquire their citizenship they have to take the citizenship test which requires them to to be able learn about the constitution and forms of Government and be able to read and answer the test. But does not necessarily guarantee fluency in conversation.
It's impossible for the government not to know that there were illegals there, that's why I say the US allows it to happen.

So it is no wonder that you saw Hispanics, they have lived in the S.Western states before they were even states! For many Generations. These are Hispanic Americans! As for the illegals it has been the same from the beggining so why would anyone suggest the Government does not know?
It would be like saying all the Japanese in São Paulo are illegals, or Koreans or Chinese, most all have Permanent visas or Citizenships and many go back many generations, are these immigrants (Brazilians) living in favelas??

I have worked and lived in the above mentioned states, also I have worked with and my Grandparents have employed illegals. 40% of my friends growing up were Mexican I have eaten, slept, played, went to school with, worked with, been to the noisy Mariachi band birthday parties on and on..
You can not even compare them to the plight of natural born Brazilian. Face it if America was worse than Mexico they would have quit coming across the border ages ago. Success for these people does not mean living in Beverly Hills, but having a better life than in Mexico or earning money to feed their Families in Mexico.
Whatever point you were hoping to make has yet to become logical.

I imagine you went to California. Gee Wilbur you saw lots of Hispanic Americans speaking Spanish, I bet that 99.9% of those you saw were legal and 0.1% was the maid at the sleezy hotel (Motel 6) you stayed at.
...
written by bo, April 11, 2007
...
written by A brazilian, 2007-04-11 09:37:41

Wow, and the denial of such a terrible reality is truly shameful. You really should be ashamed of yourself Abe, brazilian NGO's and others have admitted that there are approximately 25,000 brazilians working in slave labor situations throughout brazil. Here is an article from the last several hours!



NGOs!? Haha. They are only interested in exploiting "social problems", even creating them as it is in the case of racis, for the profit of its own members. They will always say there are bad things, because that's the way they survive! Otherwise there wouldn't be a need for them to exist.

But I'm sure this is all just a propoganda campaign orchestrated by the CIA, huh Abe?



Wow 565 people. You could find a lot more sharing a small room with other 6 and working 12 hours a day in the US, while being paid peanuts and without any rights assured.

simply is not factual, although we know you would love it to be



It is factual. You are such a bunch of deniers, you simply don't know how the life of those exploited people is. They need to live like s**t or they wouldn't save any money. It's a hard life.

Oh, so you've been in the U.S. in the last 9-12 months?? I doubt it.



Actually yes. Almost all maids in the hotel I stayed were mexicans. Almost all people working on fast food stores and supermarkets were mexicans. Americans would work more in positions where some interaction with customers was needed, such as vendors at the circuit city or best buy. One of the cities I stayed in had a HUGE number of mexicans. It's impossible for the government not to know that there were illegals there, that's why I say the US allows it to happen.

And BTW, sometimes there are stories of people that went to the US in order to work on TV. They are interviewed and they tell they wouldn't do it again, because their life sucked there. It's not the interpretation of the reporters, they say it themselves. Only a small minority of the illegal immigrants are actually successful the way GTY described.



Well Abe Brazillion deniar, there are two significant differences in the comparisons you're making. First, slave laborers in brazil are brazilians, born and bred, they aren't illegal aliens! Second, slave laborers in brazil are threatened by violence to stay and repay their "debt", they maim and murder them, that is NOT the case with illegal aliens in the U.S.!


Quite different isn't it.
Not to mention...
written by bo, April 11, 2007
that you won't find illegal aliens in the U.S. literally dying because of their working conditions. They actually have their own apartments, cars, etc. Kinda like the slave laborers in brazil....n'eh numbnutz?
A.Brazilian: You see but you do not see. Your perception is a projection of your ignorance as to what is not what you think it to be.
written by AES, April 11, 2007
The problem with knowing that one racial profiling is unconstitutional, no one can walk up to you and ask that you prove you are an American citizen. We do not have national identity cards. To falsley accuse someone is a libelous offense, with legal and financial consequences. It is the inherent problem of freedom vs fascism. The problem from a litiginous standpoint difficult. They have started with employers, they are required by law to determine the legality of the people they employ. The law is now being actively prosecuted. The fence and guarding of the southern border is in a state of manifestation. And the immigration and naturalization department has increased funding and manpower to find those who have overstayed their visas or failed to appear in promises to appear in court. We are taken for fools and the mistake is that we are reluctant to impose on the liberties of a Constitutinally free society. The U.S. Government is the people and we have allowed this to happen, but no longer. The risks are too great for a continued malaise of lessez faire. Things will change and you will be found if you are in violation of law and prosecuted. The U.S. has an incredible system of law enforcement, they are looking for you now, and they will find you. Not all of you, but enough. The world mistakes our freedom for stupidity. Dont f**k with us too long. We never forget. We have the most advanced integrated computer system on the planet. This project is four years old, I can hear them knocking on your door now. Or maybe its just the maid.
To: Herr.Professor
written by João da Silva, April 11, 2007
I have worked and lived in the above mentioned states, also I have worked with and my Grandparents have employed illegals.


If your Grandparents still employ illegals,legals ,Hispanics,Brazilians, etc;, please do send me their e-mail address. I will forward my Resume and check if I can work with them during the summer time.Of course, I expect them to pay me fair wages and also a pack of cold Coors everyday.

And,I am happy to inform you that I have cracked the famous "Gephardt Code" and if you are on line,let me know so that I can send the recipe for making the spice for Chili.

This offer is free and expires on 4/12/2007 at midnight.
forest and Bo
written by A brazilian, April 11, 2007
and restore there pride in them selves ...


Haha. I think you should inform yourself better about the life of those illegals. The fact they are illegals and not americans does not make the exploitation right.

Many cases of women that are lured with offers of working as some unskilled job and then presented to their "new life" as a sexual slave until she pays the money she owes to the gang that brought her in. This is the reality. This is not giving people's pride back. This is not living like a "human being".

And Professor, the people I am talking about didn't know any english, how could they be there since before there was the US? They should have perfect english! I tried to speak english but they wouldn't understand, even a guy from some supermarket tried to speak in spanish with me.
To: A Brazilian
written by João da Silva, April 11, 2007
And Professor, the people I am talking about didn't know any english, how could they be there since before there was the US? They should have perfect english


It is funny that you mentioned about the Mexicans immigrants not knowing English.The same thing happened to me when I visited CA. They could not speak English,but when I started talking Portugués, they could understand me and I could understand their Spanish much better than I can of that of the Argentines.I would imagine you have visited Argentina and did you have any difficulty udnerstanding their Spanish?
AB Normale meets an Alien
written by Professor, April 11, 2007
And Professor, the people I am talking about didn't know any english /quote]
I have had the same problems understanding Brazilians speaking to me in English and I am not Mexican.
how could they be there since before there was the US?
If you are referring to the ones you talked to, I assume you were talking to the ones at the cemetery. If you are referring to my earlier statement "So it is no wonder that you saw Hispanics, they have lived in the S.Western states before they were even states!" Here you can refer to history and discover that the S.Western States were populated by Mexicans before the territory became states of the U.S.

They should have perfect English! I tried to speak English but they wouldn't understand, even a guy from some supermarket tried to speak in Spanish with me.

Maybe he thought you were a w*****k? or he could not understand your English, so he tried to speak to you in Spanish.

What were you doing at the supermarket? What state and city were you in?
What was the name of supermarket? Which side of the Rio Grande were you on?
Lets unravel the mystery!
João Villa
written by Professor, April 11, 2007
If your Grandparents still employ illegals,legals ,Hispanics,Brazilians, etc;, please do send me their e-mail address. I will forward my Resume and check if I can work with them during the summer time.Of course, I expect them to pay me fair wages and also a pack of cold Coors everyday.

My Grandparents are long gone! However the Coors (Cowboy Cool-aid) remains.
I wish I had some Coors I would send it to you, because Coors makes me piss like a race horse! I am happy with the Bohemia!

And,I am happy to inform you that I have cracked the famous "Gephardt Code" and if you are on line,let me know so that I can send the recipe for making the spice for Chili.


Would not do me much good João, I tried to make Corn Tortillas from scratch and I f*cked that up! thanks anyway!
Plus I do not think the guy at the Farmácia de Manipulação would be able to make it ethier.. smilies/grin.gif
AB Normale meets an Alien V2.0
written by Professor, April 11, 2007
And Professor, the people I am talking about didn't know any english


I have had the same problems understanding Brazilians speaking to me in English and I am not Mexican.

how could they be there since before there was the US?


If you are referring to the ones you talked to, I assume you were talking to the ones at the cemetery. If you are referring to my earlier statement "So it is no wonder that you saw Hispanics, they have lived in the S.Western states before they were even states!" Here you can refer to history and discover that the S.Western States were populated by Mexicans before the territory became states of the U.S.


They should have perfect English! I tried to speak English but they wouldn't understand, even a guy from some supermarket tried to speak in Spanish with me.


Maybe he thought you were a w*****k? or he could not understand your English, so he tried to speak to you in Spanish.

What were you doing at the supermarket? What state and city were you in?
What was the name of supermarket? Which side of the Rio Grande were you on?
Lets unravel the mystery!
Chili today, Hot Tomale
written by Professor, April 12, 2007
MEXICAN POPULATION IN THE UNITED STATES


Hispanic Population 37.4 million
Percentage of Hispanic Population of Mexican and Mexican-American origin 64%
Mexican and Mexican-American population (total) 24 million
Mexican born population living in the USA 9.9 million
Male 55%
Female 45%
Working-age population 87%
Immigrated to the USA after 1990 54%
Below the poverty line (US standards) 25%
Unemployment rate 6%
Average annual salary 20,000 dollars
US Citizens 21%
Undocumented 3.5 million
US-born children of Mexican parents 8.2 million
US-citizen descendants of second- generation Mexican-Americans 7.8 million
State with highest Mexican population

-California (46.3%)
-Texas (21.3%)
-Arizona (6.6%)
-Illinois (6.3%)
-New York (3.0%)


Remittances $10 billion in 2002 - $13.3 billion in 2003

Sources: Office of National Population (August 2003), US Census Bureau (2002 and 2004 Review), and Bank of Mexico(remittances)

Mexican embassy to the U.S.
http://portal.sre.gob.mx/usa/i...ge&SubMenu
...
written by A brazilian, April 12, 2007
Here you can refer to history and discover that the S.Western States were populated by Mexicans before the territory became states of the U.S.


That's not what I meant. They could be chinese, if they are living today in a state of the United States of America then they must speak english perfectly. I am not referring to someone that arrived in the US yesterday after crossing the desert, but to those that have been there for many generations. The people that I saw, in huge quantities by the way, were clearly not americans.

Maybe he thought you were a w*****k? or he could not understand your English, so he tried to speak to you in Spanish.


Americans don't have any problem understanding my english.

What were you doing at the supermarket?


What do people do in a supermarket? The rest of the information I can't provide for privacy reasons.
To:A Brazilian
written by João da Silva, April 12, 2007
They could be chinese, if they are living today in a state of the United States of America then they must speak english perfectly.


Not necessarily. I have come across many (now) elderly Mexicans who emigrated to the U.S. years ago and who just remained in their own circle and didnt bother to learn English. BTW, years ago, I came across several Japanese immigrants into Brazil (mainly in SP), who couldnt speak any Portugués, except "Obrigado". Dont mistake me, they were wonderful people and I used my body and facila language to communicate with them. It is not the mastery of a language that enables you to communicate, but one can have other skill to do it effectively. You may or not agree with me,but that is what I think. Now I am seeing so many Nisseis and Sanseis that speak fluent Portugués and I am so pleased .Many of these speak English too! (besides Japanese,Spanish and Italian)
Ab Normal
written by Professor, April 12, 2007
Americans don't have any problem understanding my english.

I have a problem understanding your written English. Of course it is
up to me if I want to read it or not! Causes me to doubt that your
communication is any better orally or not?
Being that I am interested in what you are trying to say, I end up being
confused after reading it. If you are going to make a point why not be
more DIRECT at making that point instead of making insinuations that only
you can interpret?
I get the feeling you are writing to impress yourself more than those
reading it, trying to find someone who can somehow connect with you
in a somewhat vague spiritual nonsense shrouded in mysticism and intrigue,
in which only a very few in all of GOD's creation can connect to.

What do people do in a supermarket? The rest of the information I can't provide for privacy reasons.

Well f*ck me if I know? But why would someone travel to another country to do there F*cking grocery shopping?

The people that I saw, in huge quantities by the way, were clearly not americans.
If you were in San Fransisco they were probably Ass-assassins.
If you were Anaheim and they had cameras around their neck they were Japanese.
If you were China Town they probably were Chinese.
The people I see here in São Paulo are in "huge quantities" too as you say.
As I casually stroll down avef*ckingnida Paulisa I can point out who are and who are not Brazilians just by the power of my great mental capacity, which I would describe in more detail, however- because as you say "The rest of the information I can't provide for privacy reasons.
But I will divulge at my own risk that I do frequent the Pão de f*cking-açucar supermarket in São Paulo where I hone my superhuman abilities. However, you are not likely to find me at the outdoor supermarket in Ho Chi Minh City.
Senior Discount
written by Professor, April 12, 2007
Not necessarily. I have come across many (now) elderly Mexicans who emigrated to the U.S. years ago and who just remained in their own circle and didnt bother to learn English.

I know a few myself! Better to send the kids to Grocery store and you can stay home and watch Telemundo on the televisión.
O'hare
written by simpleton, April 12, 2007
The McD's in the Chi town international airport has the highest percentage of hispanic chatter box counter service and back kitch workers anywhere. The only English you hear is what's said back and forth with the customer and it truely is difficult to understand. Abe may actually have passed through there recently and thus every thing he says about the US is proven true. But of course we know these folk working in such a highly screened security zone are all illegals and making much less than minimum wage while their boss is f-ing them up the a--hole during thier breaks.
KAOS Agent Abe Parker
written by Professor, April 12, 2007
Abe may actually have passed through there recently and thus every thing he says about the US is proven true.

He is an INTERNATIONAL MAN OF MYSTERY, who does his weekly grocery shopping in the low rent Hispanic neighborhoods. he will only divulge his secrets while "under the Cone of Silence"
I would wager to say he is working undercover as a Bagger at this very moment in some obscure supermarket in Miami, hoping to save enough money to infiltrate the Mickey Mouse Club in Ft. Lauderdale. which is secretly a front for an International money laundering ring in which P. Maluf uses to divert state funds.
He is currently working with the N.H.H. (nappy headed ho's) division of the Justice League. He is equipped with a Blackberry shoe phone with satellite Internet access and regularly posts absurd nonsense on Bulletin boards and blogs which when decoded properly gives daily reports to KAOS headquarters located in a
underground "boate and Sauna" in Campinas.


João da Silva
written by A brazilian, April 12, 2007
I have come across many (now) elderly Mexicans who emigrated to the U.S. years ago and who just remained in their own circle and didnt bother to learn English. BTW, years ago, I came across several Japanese immigrants into Brazil (mainly in SP), who couldnt speak any Portugués, except "Obrigado".


This is the case only for people that immigrated recently, definitely not for the second generation or later. I have met many japanese descendents, a few friends of mine would speak only japanese in their homes because their parents were immigrants, BUT since they were born in Brazil and attended school here through their entire lives they speak portuguese perfectly and without any accent.

In the US it shouldn't be different. If the person can't speak english perfectly or has an accent then it's an immigrant, i.e, someone born and raised elsewhere that arrived only recently.
...
written by A brazilian, April 12, 2007
I have a problem understanding your written English. Of course it is
up to me if I want to read it or not! Causes me to doubt that your
communication is any better orally or not?


You must probably think you are talking to some little kid that has just finished the "english course". I have travelled enough to know how good my english is, and, frankly, I couldn't care less about what you think.

Being that I am interested in what you are trying to say, I end up being
confused after reading it. If you are going to make a point why not be
more DIRECT at making that point instead of making insinuations that only
you can interpret?


I don't know what piece of text you are referring to. The style of writing will depend on who I am replying to, and, in some cases, if you don't follow the thread from the beginning you won't understand what the discussion is about.

As I casually stroll down avef*ckingnida Paulisa I can point out who are and who are not Brazilians just by the power of my great mental capacity, which I would describe in more detail, however- because as you say "The rest of the information I can't provide for privacy reasons.


You can tell who is brazilian with a few minutes of conversation. The person will be unable to speak portuguese, or he will have a heavy accent. The same applies to the US. It's not related at all to how the person looks like.
Ab normal
written by Professor, April 12, 2007
You must probably think you are talking to some little kid that has just finished the "english course". I have travelled enough to know how good my english is, and, frankly, I couldn't care less about what you think.

I never imagined you did care about what anybody really thought by reading your
posts or you would have been logical. I did not think I was talking to a little kid, however your reasoning speaks like one.

I don't know what piece of text you are referring to. The style of writing will depend on who I am replying to, and, in some cases, if you don't follow the thread from the beginning you won't understand what the discussion is about.

It is easier to refer to everything that you have said until now, than to pick out any think you specificaly said logically.

You stated:

The people that I saw, in huge quantities by the way, were clearly not americans.


I replied:
As I casually stroll down avef*ckingnida Paulisa I can point out who are and who are not Brazilians just by the power of my great mental capacity, which I would describe in more detail, however- because as you say "The rest of the information I can't provide for privacy reasons.


Then you say:
You can tell who is brazilian with a few minutes of conversation. The person will be unable to speak portuguese, or he will have a heavy accent. The same applies to the US. It's not related at all to how the person looks like.


You contradict yourself!
You said the people you SAW were clearly not Americans, then you say It's not related at all to how the person looks like. Then if it is not related to what they look like then how can you determine they were not Americans by looking at them?

If I went back further in the conversation it just gets worse.

YAWN..........................
...
written by A brazilian, April 12, 2007
You contradict yourself!
You said the people you SAW were clearly not Americans, then you say It's not related at all to how the person looks like. Then if it is not related to what they look like then how can you determine they were not Americans by looking at them?


There's absolutely no contradiction at all, because if you talk to someone then will SEE that person as well (unless you are blind). Other than that you can SEE people chatting in another language and you can SEE people with difficulty in speaking english. Do you see what I mean?

Well, you don't have to believe in me, this is the list of possible meanings from the Websters for the verb "to see":


1. to perceive with the eyes; look at.
2. to view; visit or attend as a spectator: to see a play.
3. to perceive by means of computer vision.
4. to scan or view, esp. by electronic means: The satellite can see the entire southern half of the country.
5. to perceive (things) mentally; discern; understand: to see the point of an argument.
6. to construct a mental image of; visualize: He still saw his father as he was 25 years ago.
7. to accept or imagine or suppose as acceptable: I can't see him as president.
8. to be cognizant of; recognize: to see the good in others; to see where the mistake is.
9. to foresee: He could see war ahead.
10. to ascertain, learn, or find out: See who is at the door.
11. to have knowledge or experience of: to see service in the foreign corps.
12. to make sure: See that the work is done.
13. to meet and converse with: Are you seeing her at lunch today?
14. to receive as a visitor: The ambassador finally saw him.
15. to visit: He's gone to see his aunt.
16. to court, keep company with, or date frequently: They've been seeing each other for a long time.
17. to provide aid or assistance to; take care of: He's seeing his brother through college.
18. to attend or escort: to see someone home.
19. Cards. to match (a bet) or match the bet of (a bettor) by staking an equal sum; call: I'll see your five and raise you five more.
20. to prefer (someone or something) to be as indicated (usually used as a mild oath): I'll see you in hell before I sell you this house. He'll see the business fail before he admits he's wrong.
21. to read or read about: I saw it in the newspaper.
–verb (used without object) 22. to have the power of sight.
23. to be capable of perceiving by means of computer vision.
24. to understand intellectually or spiritually; have insight: Philosophy teaches us to see.
25. to give attention or care: See, there it goes.
26. to find out; make inquiry: Go and see for yourself.
27. to consider; think; deliberate: Let me see, how does that song go?
28. to look about; observe: They heard the noise and came out to see.
Professor
written by A brazilian, April 12, 2007
If that poses an unsurmountable obstacle for you then it could mean that you aren't fond of reading. Words can used in different ways in order to create a certain picture in people's minds, interpreting them in a strict and purely robotic manner could imply lack of reading.

The reader also performs a task when reading the text. It's the writer's responsibility to make things understandable, by capable human beings, but it's the reader's responsability to understand them.

I could spot far worse grammar and spelling mistakes in my texts than the so called "contradiction" pointed by you. Unfortunately this forum doesn't allow editing.
To: Simpleton
written by João da Silva, April 12, 2007
O'hare
written by simpleton, 2007-04-12 01:07


Ah, You are from the Windy City? I love it. I have some important and not so important friends there who are demanding my presence.May be I should oblige them by visiting them during this summer.I dont have to put up with the Chatter box counter service you mentioned,as we quickly get out of O'hare to be received by our unimportant friends. smilies/grin.gif
Ab normal
written by Professor, April 13, 2007
There's absolutely no contradiction at all, because if you talk to someone then will SEE that person as well (unless you are blind).
Not necessarily true, when I talk to people on the phone I do not see them.

You said:

The people that I saw, in huge quantities by the way, were clearly not americans.


The meaning of SAW has relation to: 1. to perceive with the eyes; look at.
It does not imply that you spoke with them.

Furthermore: seeing people in "huge quantities" is a ridiculous statement.

Both statements combined are CAFONA.


Other than that you can SEE people chatting in another language

No you hear or listen to someone speaking or chatting.


can SEE people with difficulty in speaking english

Yes you see difficulty. 5. to perceive (things) mentally; discern; understand: to see the point of an argument.

Well you got 1 right out of 3.

You have managed to pervert the English language, no wonder people in Brazil do not speak the same Portuguese.
Ab normal
written by Professor, April 13, 2007
Words can used in different ways in order to create a certain picture in people's minds

At least you understand that!

That is the point, if you were a painter you would only be painting buildings and only in the colors you like.
...
written by A brazilian, April 13, 2007
Not necessarily true, when I talk to people on the phone I do not see them.


So what?

The meaning of SAW has relation to: 1. to perceive with the eyes; look at.
It does not imply that you spoke with them.

No you hear or listen to someone speaking or chatting.


No, you can see someone chatting. Not only because of the most obvious reason, movements, but also by perceiving (in your mind) that the information is exchanged in a different language.

Well you got 1 right out of 3.

You have managed to pervert the English language, no wonder people in Brazil do not speak the same Portuguese.


No, I got it all right. You arbitrarily picked meanings in the list I gave in order to show whatever you wanted to show. You should read a little more, that's a fact. It would be funny to see your interpretation of texts. When Nietzsche said in his "Thus spake Zaratustra" book, that Zaratustra walked with "dead people" you would probably think that was an actual cadaver, a real one, literally.

And the portuguese in all places of this country is exactly the same. The only difference is the accent, but the lexicon and grammar is absolutely the same.
...
written by Ric, April 14, 2007
Ele è chei do leriado e só que ser as pregas.
A.Brazilian Seeing and its relationship to understanding.
written by AES, April 14, 2007
Seeing in its highest sense is to perceive, to understand (to the point of knowledge), through a variety of senses, not just sight, but knesthenics, smell, persona (social facial forms), body language. Language comprises some 7% of the information that is communicated. Inflection, feeling, gut feeling all lead to comprehensive uderstanding.

Most people are blind, or at best they listen to the words not to what is being said.

Understanding is an art, seeing is an art. How man times did you see at the time you done well on a test only to find you had made an infinitude of errors. Or how many times have you written something and not seen the errors you thought you had seen.

Seeing equals understanding. We understand to the extent of our knowledge. When you look at a diamond and I look at a diamond we both see the diamond, but I see its, color, clarity, value, cut, and the price that I feel I can either sell it at or buy it at. All of these elements comprise seeing.

I could see by the smell that the food had gone bad. I could smell they were Mexicans, not Mexican Americans. I could feel for some unconscious reason, that they felt they were Native Mexican Americans. It is not an absolute, but a practiced art. Some are better at it than others. Seeing is a kind of poetic understanding, the words may be understood on one level, but the meaning of the poem may exist between the words.

Body language is both an art and a science in psychological studies. It is involved with seeing what is not said, not in words, but in everything else.



per·ceive(pr-sv)
tr.v. per·ceived, per·ceiv·ing, per·ceives
1. To become aware of directly through any of the senses, especially sight or hearing.
2. To achieve understanding of; apprehend. See Synonyms at see1.
u.s. law will have the last word...
written by u.s. guest, April 14, 2007
the above posts are quite funny ....gty the american ,,"the every american needs a illegal alien advocate"...and his fondness for criminal illegal alien Brazilian abscounders , tax evaders, un lawfull presense,document fraud, etc....U.S. law enforcement to deport such illegals are on the rise , as americans overwhelmingly are demanding ENFORCEMENT... Quite funny ILLEGAL seems to escape some people....illegal aliens bring a total lack of respect for u.s. law... illegal aliens bring crime.... illegal aliens are a negative drain on the u.s. ... there is no net positive affect....illegal aliens not only have no legal presense,... but also violate other laws ...the american people will prevail on this.... and have the last word......
...
written by Ric, April 14, 2007
Many illegals have disgusting personal habits.
Ab Normal
written by Professor, April 14, 2007
No, I got it all right.

In your twisted uneducated view, yes you did. I would have never picked on your writing if It had no problem. However you strive for the sake of striving thinking you have won when you have had the last word in the argument.

You arbitrarily picked meanings in the list I gave in order to show whatever you wanted to show. You should read a little more, that's a fact.

I picked the meaning most appropriate according to your sentence structure. You base your ideas on how you perceive things in Portuguese and then translate to English. You have no sense of collocations in English.

You should read a little more, that's a fact. It would be funny to see your interpretation of texts.

Here you are boosting your own ego in the face of your apparent ignorance.

When Nietzsche said in his "Thus spake Zaratustra" book, that Zaratustra walked with "dead people" you would probably think that was an actual cadaver, a real one, literally.

Your probably is based on your own twisted perceptions. Quoting a famous person without any basis does not make you as smart or even near to the person you quote. You do this to try to associate yourself to a better in which you are not worthy.

And the portuguese in all places of this country is exactly the same. The only difference is the accent, but the lexicon and grammar is absolutely the same.

The language is the same but there are different dialects and grammar usages in Brazil.
In fact you speak Brazilian Portuguese in Brazil which is a dialect of Portuguese.
A common Brazilian can not read or write formal Brazilian Portuguese. Communication problems arise between the formal and common Portuguese both written and spoken, largely based on social class.
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialeto_gaúcho
ABBY NORMAL aka A.Brazilian
written by IGOR, April 14, 2007
If you have nothing to say it is probably better not to say it.
ABBY NORMAL: 'A man's reach should exceed his grasp. . .' Robert Browning
written by IGOR, April 14, 2007
'A man's reach should exceed his grasp' and in your case in English, Rationality and Manners it does.
THE RIGHT KIND OF PEOPLE
written by Ric, April 15, 2007
Gone is the city, gone the day,
Yet still the story and the meaning stay:

Once where a prophet in the palm shade basked
A traveler chanced at noon to rest his miles.
"What sort of people may they be," he asked,
"In this proud city on the plains o´erspread?"
"Well, friend, what sort of people whence you came?"
"What sort?" the packman scowled;"why, knaves and fools."
"You´ll find the people here the same," the wise man said.

Another stranger in the dusk drew near,
And pausing, cried,"What sort of people here
In your bright city where yon towers arise?"
"Well, friends, what sort of people whence you came?"
"What sort?" the pilgrim smiled,
"Good, true and wise."
"You´ll find the people here the same,"
The wise man said.

Edwin Markham
Ric: Musings of an itinerant pilgrim.
written by IGOR, April 15, 2007
I am a mendigo. Hath
not a mendigo eyes? hath not a mendigo hands, organs,
dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with
the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject
to the same diseases, healed by the same means,
warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as
you are? If you prick us, do we not bleed?
if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison
us, do we not die? and if you wrong us, shall we not
revenge? We are more the same than we are different, that is why it is medicine, physiology, anatomy, without distinction. It is the study of man. And there is nothing new under the sun. We are our brother's keeper in the highest sense of the word. Do good, for then you can do no wrong.
...
written by A brazilian, April 15, 2007
In your twisted uneducated view, yes you did.


I think AES expressed "to see" and "understanding" pretty well. Better than I did. I agree with his text.

You base your ideas on how you perceive things in Portuguese and then translate to English.


Not really. You can only say you are fluent in a language when you can think in that language. I can think in English, Spanish, Portuguese and I am almost there with German. Not latin for obvious reasons, you don't have really where to use it, and you can just read books written in it in the best of the cases.

Quoting a famous person without any basis does not make you as smart or even near to the person you quote. You do this to try to associate yourself to a better in which you are not worthy.


I just cited that for the sake of an example, I didn't have the intention of associating myself with anybody. All the time when reading you will find such words that should interpreted depending on the context it is located in. If I said I saw mexicans, that not necessarily means that I could hear the words with my eyes. That's the idea. You should grasp the idea the text is passing.

The language is the same but there are different dialects and grammar usages in Brazil.
In fact you speak Brazilian Portuguese in Brazil which is a dialect of Portuguese.
A common Brazilian can not read or write formal Brazilian Portuguese. Communication problems arise between the formal and common Portuguese both written and spoken, largely based on social class.
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialeto_gaúcho


Using Wikipedia to prove something about a language? Haha. People don't speak portuguese incorrectly out of ideology or "dialects", but simply because they are ignorant about the correct norms of the language. Brasil has only one official language, and the exact same langauge is taught everywhere. Anybody from Brazil can understand each other.

There are no dialects in Brazil, that article is incorrect (I will leave a comment in the discussion page later). There is only one grammar, that we learn in school. Do you want to see real dialects (here is the "see" again)? Take a look at the german language. In each region you will find a different "german", although there's only one standardized. So basically people from some regions in Germany are bilingual since birth, they speak the standard german and the dialect of the region they were born in. The "dialect" in question has a whole different grammar.
Professor
written by A brazilian, April 15, 2007
If you are curious about the portuguese language, the third western language most spoken in the world, after only english and spanish, then I would suggest "Gramática Metódica da Língua Portuguesa" from Napoleão Mendes de Almeida.

He is one of the best scholars that the portuguese language ever had. And he was very direct about such notion of "something different than portuguese", it simply doesn't exist. Who speak incorrectly does it out of ignorance. I was looking for the exact page to let you know but I couldn't find, but surely it is in this book.
Como sempre
written by Ric, April 15, 2007
O Dr. Arigó só veve enchendo linguiça.
To: Ric/O Dr. Arigó só veve enchendo linguiça.
written by João da Silva, April 15, 2007
If you are curious about the portuguese language, the third western language most spoken in the world, after only english and spanish, then I would suggest "Gramática Metódica da Língua Portuguesa" from Napoleão Mendes de Almeida.


Calm down Ric.A Brazilian,in his own subtle way, is wishing Herr.Professor all the best in his efforts to "Naturalize" himself and incentivating him to master our language. I like him as he reminds me of my rebellious youth.

Lets be honest:What will ya all do if A Brazilian doesnt participate in this elite (and cliky-Clique) club?. Ya all will be complaining among yourselves about Brazil,without coming to any conclusions.

I dont think there are A Brazilian I,II, UpNorth,Etc; There is only one " A Brazilian".Of course, I would love to know his first name and the state he comes from.But, we cant demand that he identifies himself. It is against the laws of this land.
Joao
written by IGOR, April 15, 2007
You have already identified A.Brazilian as a softwear engineer. For me I am interested in only knowledge, and the perception of it. A.Brazilian provides a window into Brazil. As a professor of English Literature, a facilitatory of Psychological Group Encounter, as an Entrepeneur and having lived in the South Pacific, Paris, Amsterdam, and the Middle East, having done graduate work in the middle East, I am hardly intimidated by my ignorance. I have long ago learned that the task was to understand what is being said not how it was said or demanding that I be understood. Truth is not a matter of opinion. It may be a collection of perspectives like the eye of a fly, but A.Brazil offers an energy to the site. The higher the energy the greater the light.
In what he does not know I learn what he does know. I know a great deal of what he does not know and am learning what he does. We reveal the truth of our selves not in our words, but between our words, whether we intend to or not. Understanding is an art. Knowing what we dont know wisdom.
A.Brazilian: Lingua Franca 1. A medium of communication between peoples of different languages.
written by AES, April 15, 2007
Portuguese may be the third most spoken language of the Western World, but it is not the Lingua Franca of the World. The Chinese, Indians, Japanese, Europe. for all intents and purposes will and are using English as the universal global language. Regardless of the statistic the current reality is that Portuguese enjoys a certain esotericism in the world of language usage. That is definitely not to say that in the very near future that Brasilian Portuguese will be of great economic importance, especially to the Chinese and the Middle East. But it is far easier for all nations to conduct business in the Lingua Franca, all if not most scientific literature is published in English. That is not by any means to denograte Portuguese, or Chinese, for that matter, it is just the state of affairs 'in media res'.
Ab Normal
written by Professor, April 15, 2007
Professor
written by A brazilian, 2007-04-14 19:57:38

If you are curious about the portuguese language, the third western language most spoken in the world, after only english and spanish, then I would suggest "Gramática Metódica da Língua Portuguesa" from Napoleão Mendes de Almeida.

He is one of the best scholars that the portuguese language ever had. And he was very direct about such notion of "something different than portuguese", it simply doesn't exist. Who speak incorrectly does it out of ignorance. I was looking for the exact page to let you know but I couldn't find, but surely it is in this book.

Thanks, I am currently studding: Gramática Escolar da lingua Portugesa, by Evanildo Bechara. When I finish this book I can move to the next.
Perhaps next the Língua pirahã because the good people at the Padaria do
not understand my Portuguese Grammar.
AES
written by A brazilian, April 15, 2007
Not sure why you mentioned that. Lingua Franca is not a law to be forced upon others, it is just a convention most decide to adopt. And I don't have anything against English, it would be anything it wouldn't make a difference.

Regardless of the statistic the current reality is that Portuguese enjoys a certain esotericism in the world of language usage


Portuguese is a alive and well, more people speak portuguese in this world than french, italian or german. I would say it is no more "esoteric" than those.
A.Brazilian
written by AES, April 15, 2007
I was thinking of the billions of Chinese and Indians. British schools now mandate courses in Chinese language studies. I was thinking of the curiosity that a nation with a billion native speakers, the Chinese, are training their population to speak English. So that they can converse globaly, primarily to facilitate economic enterprise than philosophy.
It was of interest to me that so many people on the planet speak Portuguese, I would have thought French with their colonies in Indochina, Africa, MiddleEast, Quebec (North America) and the fact that they had controlled all of Europe under Napoleon had a greater population of speakers of French than the Portuguese had Portuguese. But Brazil is hugh, and eats France for lunch. What is it the size of Minas Gerais? Brazil is nearly a continent in size. It should not be suprising that it should be more greatly spoken than French, Italian, or German. When I first flew into Sao Paulo I could not believe the size of it, it was on the level of Chicago, or New York, it was a megalyth. I thought I had left all of that behind. You are right, Lingua Franca is what I called 'in media res' that is in the middle of things, or at this current time the state of affairs. It is as was Latin five hundred years ago. One could hardly be considered formally educated if one could not read and write Latin. So the World seems to have adopted English as the New Latin, it was not my idea. Just how it is. And if you do business internationally or are in the scientific world, then a competent English translator might be a business asset of some import. BTW because French, Italian, German and Latin are historically the languages offered at University, thus the use of describing Portuguese as esoteric. In another few years it may make more sense to study Portuguese or Chinese rather than Italian or French.
IGOR
written by Professor, April 15, 2007
written by IGOR, 2007-04-14 22:13:11

You have already identified A.Brazilian as a softwear engineer. For me I am interested in only knowledge, and the perception of it. A.Brazilian provides a window into Brazil. As a professor of English Literature, a facilitatory of Psychological Group Encounter, as an Entrepeneur and having lived in the South Pacific, Paris, Amsterdam, and the Middle East, having done graduate work in the middle East, I am hardly intimidated by my ignorance. I have long ago learned that the task was to understand what is being said not how it was said or demanding that I be understood. Truth is not a matter of opinion. It may be a collection of perspectives like the eye of a fly, but A.Brazil offers an energy to the site. The higher the energy the greater the light.
In what he does not know I learn what he does know. I know a great deal of what he does not know and am learning what he does. We reveal the truth of our selves not in our words, but between our words, whether we intend to or not. Understanding is an art. Knowing what we dont know wisdom.


Well expressed IGOR!!

I do blame you for Ab normals condition considering your name is IGOR, BTW is it pronounced like Egor or Igor?
Prof
written by AES, April 15, 2007
I think in 'Young Frankenstein' it was pronounced (as a bit of wit) as 'eye'gor.
aes
written by Professor, April 15, 2007
'eye'gor

Yes, that is it! aka. Marty Feldman
Young Frankenstein nominated for 2 Oscars. Another 9 wins & 3 nominations!

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: For what we are about to see next, we must enter quietly into the realm of genius

Igor: Dr. Frankenstein...
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: "Fronkensteen."
Igor: You're putting me on.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: No, it's pronounced "Fronkensteen."
Igor: Do you also say "Froaderick"?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: No..."Frederick."
Igor: Well, why isn't it "Froaderick Fronkensteen"?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: It isn't; it's "Frederick Fronkensteen."
Igor: I see.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: You must be Igor.
[He pronounces it ee-gor]
Igor: No, it's pronounced "eye-gor."
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: But they told me it was "ee-gor."
Igor: Well, they were wrong then, weren't they?

Ab Normal
written by Professor, April 15, 2007
I am considering taking this course:
http://www.imagensdokibe.blogg...ziu109.jpg
...
written by Ric, April 16, 2007
Portuguese is too complicated to be a Lingua Franca in today´s world. A Dutch lady who spoke seven languages fluently and learned her Portuguese in Angola told me that of the seven English was the easiest. The irregularities are a problem and the phonetics, the words "do" and "get", but far simpler than German or Italian. Said she.
I have studied Latin and classical Greek, and am aware that they are complicated yet were once predominant, but by the necessities of empire. Comply or die. By contrast, when multi-linual speakers communicate, when left to itself the conversation will at some point take the line of least resistance, and that usually means English.
...
written by "Magnus Brasil", April 28, 2007
"Alfa Tição" Understand?

Funny. I thought Latin was so easy to learn compared to german.

and about English, as a friend of mine said, "It is a language made for people to learn".

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