Brazzil

Free land, now there's a deal. Life is not fair. Real estate is sold, not expropriated. Expropriation is theft.
Life in Cuba is a grim hand to mouth existence. The marxian ideal is a failed philosophy. It does not work. Beneficent capitalism. Poverty creates poverty, if your in a hole stop digging. A financially successful economy is where the money for programs for the alleviation of poverty.

Every immegrant that came to the U.S. over the past two hundred years, came with only the shirt on their backs. They succeeded in a thousand ways. Theft of land was not one of them. They worked, penny by penny.

Even in the U.S. today you can get free government land. Only nobody wants to live there, life is too difficult. Its called homesteading.

At the start of Lula first mandate, HE promised 400'000 settlements. He delivered only half during the mandate. The MST knew it since it was them who complained.many many times, either through march demonstrations to Brasilia, destroying the senate, or articles published everywhere including in this site.

What did the MST next ?

They again voted for LULAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!

They got what they wanted..
Simple as that !

Betraying his voters is what Lula is truly good at !
And the MST statement "For the left, Lula is the biggest political tragedy in the history of Brazil." sorry....but there is NOTHING NEW !

has any one ever seen them go after land that was not cleared , or someone already did all the work , and they just move in and set up a living

and a few months later they go after another place

do as most of the free world does buy it , work for it

or vote for someone that will make it possible for you to work it off over a 10 to 15 year term
by selling you goods to the city in bulk at a good rate .

EU KÉRU MIA TERRA DI VORTA
MEU FI TÃOBEIN :-

Colleague "aes" should try to have at least a vague idea about what he is exdpressding an opinion:

Free land, now there's a deal. Life is not fair. Real estate is sold, not expropriated. Expropriation is theft.

The Indians will think about this, if they had not been genocided.

Life in Cuba is a grim hand to mouth existence. The marxian ideal is a failed philosophy. It does not work.

So it is in many other Latin American countries. Less people starve in Cuba, and health care there is better for the masses than in the US.

Every immegrant that came to the U.S. over the past two hundred years, came with only the shirt on their backs. They succeeded in a thousand ways. Theft of land was not one of them. They worked, penny by penny.

Individuals were given relatively small, albeit generally substantial enough land grants just for settling it and working it. The land was often stolen from the Indians. In Brazil huge land grants were given to the best connected bidder or allocated on some other shonky grunds.

Adeus.

The land was always stollen from the Indians, or the French, or the Spanish, or the English. It was the age of Darwinism and slavery. Slavery being the greatest theft. It was the Spanish that made slaves of the indiginous people of Florida and California.

That was then and now is now. I would not have open heart surgery in Cuba. They keep the peasants subsistantly medically alive so they can work for free, or nearly.

The mediciine in Cuba is hardly to be compared to the U.S. It is a myth. The medicine in the U.S. is far superior to Cuba and everyone is eligible. There is medicare, medicaide, and it is against the law for any hospital to refuse emergency treatment to anyone regardless of their ability to pay. People use the emergency room in hospitals as though it were a Clinic because it is free. It is payed by the tax payer. Anyone in the U.S. that needs medical treatment can get it.

The U.S. was settled by land grants stollen from indigenous neolithic tribes. Brazil gave a few people, oligarchs the land, the U.S. gave it to immigrants, if you were willing to work it for ten years, 2,000 miles from the nearest city. How the West was settled.

Once again life is not fair, but in media res, you have to buy land to acquire it legally. It is the Brazillian government that controls the land, let them acquire it by paying the current landowners, right of public domain, and deed it in long term mortgages at low or no interest.

The 85% of Latin Americans, or for that sake 30% of USAnians, who are concerned with the issue do not really worry that a heart-lung transplant is out of the question, and a lot of other things too. They would just appreciate Cuban levels of service.

What land distribution is concerned, that you acknowledge "that was then and now is now". Maybe in Brazil it is still "then" in some places and circumstances.

You in the USA, which is God's very own country, tend to judge by ho well somebody can devwelop in a society. I tend to judge it rather by how s**tty one's existence in a society can be. Both ways, the USA do not look too grandiose.

Most people live s**tty superficial lives, `getting and spending`. In the U.S. the poor drive cars and there are an infinitude of programs such as `food stamps` by which every poor can apply and receive food.

There is no minimum to the medical attention the `poor` are able to access. It is perhaps the middle class that suffers the inability to afford particular medical attention, as they are not `poor` enough to access all the programs that exist for the `poor`, programs established by Johnson`s `war on poverty` forty years ago. from education, to housing, to medicine, to food, their are an infinitude of programs.

It is about the `quality of life`, particularly the opportunity of upward mobility. There is infinite opportunity in the U.S.

We in the U.S. judge a fundamental part of the quality of life as the right to justice under the law.

The land was always stollen from the Indians, or the French, or the Spanish, or the English. It was the age of Darwinism and slavery. Slavery being the greatest theft. It was the Spanish that made slaves of the indiginous people of Florida and California.

Just a note, Brazil was colonized by the Portuguese, and Spain has nothing to do with it. If your intention was of attacking the other poster then I suggest that you learn a bit of History and Geography first.

I don't see how it's possible to judge which violence is better. It seems to me just a patriotic attempt of minimizing the atrocities committed by the English and Americans. This is sick.

Really, do you think that Brazil did not steal all its land from indiginous people? We are talking about the distribution of land in Brazil by taking it from existing land owners.

I was talking about North America, not Brazil. You are quick to criticize what you have not understood.

Perhaps you should study English before you attempt to either parce it or misrepresent what is being said.

Brazil raped Africa and millions of Africans, made slaves of them, they were the greatest of thieves. They not only stole the indians land, but the lives of millions of people. They were the last to give it up.

After the Civil War blacks in America were given thirty acers and a mule as some sort of recompense.

The point is not to compare violence, but to comment on the period of history two to three hundred years ago, in the New World.

It is also commenting on the bulls**t that Cuba's medical establishment compared to the U.S. is superior.

I suggest you and your cronies study the reality, before you presume to reach an irroneous illinformed conclusion.

Cuba is a dying s**thole. It is a lie waiting to die.

Apparently you are the one with difficulties in reading. Where did I mention "land owners" or "stealing land"? I just considered your attempt of evaluating which violence is better to be sick and a silly patriotic attempt of minimizing your own guilt.

That's it. I didn't even mention Cuba. You are out of your mind!

For your information the idea of "Brazil being a leader in the slave trade" is not entirely accurate, since it was through a short span of time only, and by the time the slavery was abolished most slaves here were already free. Africa was raped by the European thieves that explored it and then left the mess behind.

I guess some acers of land a mule pay for the mistreatment and centuries of racism, violence and segregation, doesn't it? The US is the last country on Earth that could accuse others of racism, since segregation was a reality until recently, and, despite of being abolished, is still practiced even today. You have absolutely no moral to discuss anything related to it. Your opinions are always biased to a racist view of world because of it.

What I find the most impressive characteristic of some Americans and Europeans is that they have no shame in spreading baseless rumours just because they feel some sort of "natural order of things" to it (of course, third world monkey can't make anything right, so that's their purpose in life, to be below us). The European powers raped Africa in every way possible, and then later with their American cousins promoted the construction of racist societies even with laws for preventing the mixing and keeping people segregated socially. Are you serious or is this just a joke?

written by igor, 2007-06-19 14:29:06
Brazil raped Africa and millions of Africans, made slaves of them, they were the greatest of thieves. They not only stole the indians land, but the lives of millions of people. They were the last to give it up.

After the Civil War blacks in America were given thirty acers and a mule as some sort of recompense.

Igor, it is disingenuous to suggest after the U.S. Civil War, Black-Americans acquired and held via the U.S. Governments benevolence, capital assets in the form of land and mule. What I believe is more accurate is most Black-Americans received nothing and what little was given per order of General Sherman - 40 acres and a mule - was taken away by the U.S. Government. Hence, most Black-Americans remained defacto slaves working others lands or moving northward and receiving little pay.

The term "slavery" itself is somewhat and elusive term as "slavery" takes on many different forms. Slavery did not begin with the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade nor did it end with it. A notable example is Ethiopia which did not outlaw "slavery" till the 1920's. Currently, slavery in various forms still exists on the continent of Africa. Slavery within a broad and elusive scope still exists within the United States, Brazil, and Europe and Asia today. As an example of what I mean by "broad and elusive" are the snapshots of latter 1800's industrial factory work in the United States , dominated by Irish, children, and women which in many cases was worse than the cotton fields and perhaps as bad as the rice fields. Corporal punishment was met out in that factory work also. Prostitution run by "pimps" and organized crime (such as the Yakuza in Japan) has often taken on a form of slavery itself. There are plenty of women prostitutes in the United States, beaten, intimidated, cut with razor or knives, and purposely made hooked on drugs by "pimps." Read the classic autobiographical book, "Pimp: The Story of My Life" by Ice Berg Slim, to get a better glimpse.

Another way "slavery" is broad and elusive as a term, can be glimpsed into the Spanish frequent use of black slaves as soldiers, or the large amount of black and mulatto slaves in the historical port city of Rio de Janeiro operating as skilled crafts men in an urban setting. When Pizarro with a few troops was pinned down by Inca warriors, a detachment of 100 black and mulatto soldiers were sent to his rescue (many if not all were slaves in legal definition). Of course not all blacks and mulattos were slaves under Spanish rule. The first town in the United States, St. Augustine in Florida, was essentially a town filled with free blacks and mulattos (and some slaves as well) because the small fort town next to it was basically run by free blacks and mulattos defending Spanish interests. I believe the first person to plant wheat in Mexico was a free black soldier who came over with Cortez. That black soldier became extremely landed wealthy when he retired and managed all his acres.

Many blacks slaves under the Portuguese and Spanish rule in the Americas, received financial pay also. Some did in the United States also. The Inquisition records of Brazil seems to reveal - ironic as it is - a minority of former black slaves that rose to a financial savings - in terms related to buying power - more impressive than many poor Black-Americans today. In my eyes at least.

...
written by aes, 2007-06-18 15:51:19

Every immegrant that came to the U.S. over the past two hundred years, came with only the shirt on their backs. They succeeded in a thousand ways. Theft of land was not one of them. They worked, penny by penny.

Of course this is not true.

Western European Jews, in general, came to the United States with money. Off the back they lived like middle-class if not better. The same is true, in speaking in general terms, of the "Scots-Irish" (ethnic Scottish people from Northern Ireland) who came to the United States with money and education and disdained to be associated with the Irish who came here and often lived and died here (the first generation) in abject poverty, the Irish were largely uneducated unlike the Scots-Irish.

The Eastern European Jews were the Jewish people that came here very poor. They are the ones who became the gangsters, boot-leggers, and pugilist boxers, not the immigrant Western European Jewry.

The Germans had a strong craftsman culture of high standards, so when so many German immigrants arrived here in the United States, they brought their knowledge and ability of the various crafts (building trades and other), this helped them as a form of knowledge based capital if you will. So there financial rise, generally speaking as a whole, was not as difficult as the Irish as a whole. To this day Germany is renowned in the U.S. building trades as a nation that produces superior craftsmen - than the United States.

Not all immigrants came here in abject poverty, and for those that did, most died in poverty. Yes some few rose to great wealthy heights, but then some few Black-Americans rise to become NBA stars. But measuring those few against the masses reality is deceptive and not reflective of chances or odds.

My grandparents came out of Odessa and Kiev they fled the pogroms. They came to New York with nothing, my grandfather used to tell the story of how he had to worked in a cigar box factory making boxes for pennies. He ended his life a restauranteur, hew owned delis in New York, Boston and Boyl Heights, Los Angeles.

It was 1902 and he snuck across the border at 17 under barbed wire to escape.

'Western European Jews, in general, came to the United States with money.' Who in particular and during what century were you referring?

The hyperbolic statement 'Every immegrant that came to the U.S. over the past two hundred years, came with only the shirt on their backs. They succeeded in a thousand ways. Theft of land was not one of them. They worked, penny by penny.' It was through their drive, suffering, frugality that most Americans have arrived where ever they have arrived. Most Americans have stories of their families immigration, the difficulties, the misery. But inspite of all this, most Americans live so much better than the rest of the world.

Some blacks rise to the position of Supreme Court Justices, Generals, Secretarys of State.

I've heard you use this expression of referring to your self as monkey on more than one occassion.

It is not a term I have ever heard.

For me Brazil was about Jazz, Jobim, Gilberto. The Brazilians I was acquainted with in '71 were the most homogenous (non racist) bunch of people I had ever met, perhaps it was because they were musicians, but it was never about race (like in the U.S.) it was simply about people, and music. These were professional musicians. But the lack of race consciousness was what struck me most. These were sophisticated philosopic competent educated musicians, I think you think of your self as a third world monkey, whatever that means, and project it on us. We have no consciousness of anything outside of the U.S. We do not care.
We assume that if you are not living in the U.S. you are living an impoverished either real or imagined.

We may have a general disdain, malaise or indifference to anyother culture or nation, but that is our loss.

But thinking of third world peoples as monkeys is something you have created. We pity the lives of les miserables, Bangladesh, Chad, Dafur. They are third world. Brazil is not third world. It has more wealth and potential than 90% of the countries on Earth. What you lack is hope and faith in yourselves, your thinking is self defeating.

Monkey no, human yes. Very human.

That expression was a reference to how affirmations regarding third world countries are done in an irresponsible manner. Just that. It means that since in the minds of some Americans third world countries can't make anything right, and therefore they are third world, they feel free to attribute to them all kinds of problems, real or imaginary, and even their own problems without any historical source or care for accuracy. Your affirmation about "the rape of Africa" was exactly like that.

If you don't like the word "monkey", replace it by "mule", "dog" or whatever you feel like, because it won't change the meaning of the text. I think the word "monkey" triggered some defensive mechanism in you, since you changed the subject and accused me of being racist. Hehe.

It seems the first world is ashamed of its past. They need to show themselves as "respectable" no matter what, and for that they accuse third world countries of doing worse than they did.

The aside of my Brazilian musician acquaintences homogenaity of racial perception as non distinctive, but perceiving people as people was to give example to the advanced state of humanistic evolution, antithetical to your degrading term 'monkey'. We do not regard the suffering of humans in Pakestan, victims of earthquakes, or the famines in Africa, or the earthquakes in Iran, Afghanistan, or the Sunami in Indonesia as the suffering of animals of dogs, or mules, or monkeys but of human beings. It is this perception of their humanity and their suffering that is the motivation for the billions the U.S. spends in relief of suffering.

You are obsessed with Racism. The U.S. is Chauvenistic (believing in intrinsic superiority, valid or invalid), even Jingoistic.

Your contention that we need to show ourselves as 'respectable' and to accomplish this by accusing third world countries of doing worse is without merit.

It is not factual. Nothing of what you have said is either true or factual. It is a morass of misunderstanding and projection.

Interesting how quickly you have analised his state of mind, Igor.

written by igor, 2007-06-19 18:48:27
My grandparents came out of Odessa and Kiev they fled the pogroms. They came to New York with nothing, my grandfather used to tell the story of how he had to worked in a cigar box factory making boxes for pennies. He ended his life a restauranteur, hew owned delis in New York, Boston and Boyl Heights, Los Angeles.

It was 1902 and he snuck across the border at 17 under barbed wire to escape.

'Western European Jews, in general, came to the United States with money.' Who in particular and during what century were you referring?

The hyperbolic statement 'Every immegrant that came to the U.S. over the past two hundred years, came with only the shirt on their backs. They succeeded in a thousand ways. Theft of land was not one of them. They worked, penny by penny.' It was through their drive, suffering, frugality that most Americans have arrived where ever they have arrived. Most Americans have stories of their families immigration, the difficulties, the misery. But inspite of all this, most Americans live so much better than the rest of the world.

Some blacks rise to the position of Supreme Court Justices, Generals, Secretarys of State.

I was making no comment against your grandparents, and I'm sure your grandfather was a hard worker.

My comment was just a matter of history regarding the USA. Most first generation immigrants that came in poverty died in poverty. If that were not so then the history of the Irish, Russian, Italian, Eastern European Jews, and various Slavic peoples would have been simply one of rags to rich. In other words, the story of Jewish boxers and American Italian mafia would be one of their origins beginning in the wealthiest neighborhoods rather the the "ghettos." Likewise, if all these European immigrants were simply a story of entrepreneurial rags to riches, then why did so many of them work all their lives in factories? These are the same immigrants who got into gun battles with corporate hired Pinkerton agents over wages and the right to unionize et cetera.

As for land taken from Amerindians and given to European immigrants or "native" white peoples in the U.S. not occurring? It in fact did occur, and at quite a large and significant scale. This is a matter if historical fact. The U.S. Government sold land very cheaply to white men, that is, land toward the Midwest and westward, so that the land could be held and developed rather than fall back into the hands of Amerindians. If the United States Government simply owned all that land that would be economically socialism. And the Amerindians certainly did not simply go around like capitalists negotiating and selling their lands to private speculators and farmers.

So the "immigration story" in the United States encompasses more than just the preferred propaganda of rags to riches first generation immigrants. Besides the things I've already mentioned, it also includes the Chinese Exclusion Act, the internment of Japanese and all the modern and immigration stories including Mexican triumphs, Haitians being turned away, and wealthy Cubans that arrived in Florida to virtually buy it up and tap into the cocaine market buy building banks and laundering money through them.

By the way, I'm half German myself. No Germans in my family even several generations into the U.S. are or were rich (not to my knowledge at least). I know my ethnic German grandparents, obtained middle-class lifestyle, my grandfather having never finished grade school here in the U.S., and having made a living through the craft of fixing watches (a trade no longer in demand). My German-American grandparents were very much psychologically shaped by the Great Depression - not by grand riches.

As for your example of Black-Americans, I'm sure many more black judges, generals, and high ranking executive level politicians can be found in the continent of contemporary Africa than in the United States today.

Your contention that we need to show ourselves as 'respectable' and to accomplish this by accusing third world countries of doing worse is without merit.

It is not factual. Nothing of what you have said is either true or factual. It is a morass of misunderstanding and projection.

Igor, was anything that you have said factual? Including the "rape of Africa" part? You didn't even read my posts and included a lot of information not related to anything I had said, e.g., Cuba, land-owners, etc. I think you are the one projecting your own issues on others.

It took multiple generations of sacrifice so that their sons and daughters and grandsons and daughters would be able to attend university, become lawyers, doctors, own property houses. Many ethnicities did this. The Chinese and Japenese are superb examples of this, by the second or third generation it is not uncommon that they arre professionals, teachers, doctors, researchers. It is not random chance it is a difference in the values of particular ethnicities. Look at the Koreans, the Jews, it was through genuine sacrifice, that these progresses took place. In spite of the misery, the racism, the poverty.

And yes the States were stolen from the indiginous people. And the land sold, and this is land in the desolation of the midwest, where life is hard, winters are hard, hard as the ground. They survived prospered, died.

But for a number of ethnicities it was not about now it was about tomorrow. It was not about themselves it was about the wellbeing of their children and their children.

The U.S. has become an obeise self centered civilization consummed with self gratification now. The consequence is abysmal. Familial dysfunctionality. Termenal psychological adolescence.

The Germans went to Ohio, Indiana, it took generations, but the land is worth millions today. The tenacity of their hard work, and their philosophies of God, country, family, and morality, kept them in a position of growing, tending, day after day, hour after hour, year after year, century after century. Perseverence. Spend a winter in Indiana and see how deathly cold it is. Yet they endured, survived and prospered, their childrens children. The greatest happiness is the well being of your children and grandchildren. The rest is adolescent self indulgence.

It is not rags to riches, but rags to better rags. It is better to be free and wear rags.

Yeh, everything I said was true. If the enslavement of millions of people, the stealing of diamonds, gold, ores, Rhodesia, South Africa, does not define itself either literally or metaphorically as rape you do not know the meaing of the word. The word rape means to steal. rape 1(rp)
n.
1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.
tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes
1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on.
2. To seize and carry off by force.
3. To plunder or pillage.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Middle English, from rapen, to rape, from Old French raper, to abduct, from Latin rapere, to seize; see rep- in Indo-European roots.]

And Quasi Moto a thing is true or it is not. You cannot force the truth, Pol Pot killed millions of Cambodians along with the Marxian Chinese under Mao. Cuba used to be libre, now it is a puppet show without its soul.

Colour it marxian grey.

If the enslavement of millions of people, the stealing of diamonds, gold, ores, Rhodesia, South Africa, does not define itself either literally or metaphorically as rape you do not know the meaing of the word.

What!? South Africa? Diamonds? Are you on acid?

Are you saying that the European powers did not rape Africa? And the situation there is due to Brazil only and its exploitation? Do you have any sources for this incredible affirmation?

Are you saying that the US did not exploit slave labor, and did not oppressed them after the end of slavery in a violent way similar to the apartheid in South Africa, much more violent than Brazil?

Cuba used to be libre, now it is a puppet show without its soul.

What are you talking about? Where in any of my posts I cited Cuba?

written by igor, 2007-06-20 00:18:57
It took multiple generations of sacrifice so that their sons and daughters and grandsons and daughters would be able to attend university, become lawyers, doctors, own property houses. Many ethnicities did this. The Chinese and Japenese are superb examples of this, by the second or third generation it is not uncommon that they arre professionals, teachers, doctors, researchers. It is not random chance it is a difference in the values of particular ethnicities. Look at the Koreans, the Jews, it was through genuine sacrifice, that these progresses took place. In spite of the misery, the racism, the poverty.

What Chinese? They were effectively banned from enjoying full citizenship through the Chinese Exclusion Act which restricted Chinese immigration into the United States. That last up until the mid 20th century. Prior to that Chinese worked as coolies in the USA. Read about them building the Trans Atlantic Railroad. They lived in f*ckin igloos.

The Jews lived wealthy in some nations poor in others. What the h*ll does that tell you? That full assimilation into both the social and economic fabric of a society - assuming said society has the right economic conditions - propels a people in upward mobility. It has little to do with race or ethnic background. True, certain ethnic cultural traits can help, such as the Jewish peoples long storied experience in the merchant trades.

Japanese are successful in Japan, I have no idea where you get this idea Japanese have to immigrate to the United States to obtain a chance at college education for their children. The Chinese (meaning China) are producing more engineers out of college than the United States is (their huge population size aside).

And yes the States were stolen from the indiginous people. And the land sold, and this is land in the desolation of the midwest, where life is hard, winters are hard, hard as the ground. They survived prospered, died.

But for a number of ethnicities it was not about now it was about tomorrow. It was not about themselves it was about the wellbeing of their children and their children.

The Irish came over her because their famine was so bad many of them had to literally sell what little clothing they had to survive, that and the fact that their English land ruling elite figured it better to ship them off to the United States than deal with them in Ireland.

Many Italians that came to the U.S. came from the southern region of Italy (or Sicily). Life was hand-to-mouth hard their. Men working in mines literally worked butt naked in the mines. Coming to the United States often meant a better life than that - and you are correct a better opportunity for their children.

written by igor, 2007-06-20 00:18:57
The U.S. has become an obeise self centered civilization consummed with self gratification now. The consequence is abysmal. Familial dysfunctionality. Termenal psychological adolescence.

The Germans went to Ohio, Indiana, it took generations, but the land is worth millions today. The tenacity of their hard work, and their philosophies of God, country, family, and morality, kept them in a position of growing, tending, day after day, hour after hour, year after year, century after century. Perseverence. Spend a winter in Indiana and see how deathly cold it is. Yet they endured, survived and prospered, their childrens children. The greatest happiness is the well being of your children and grandchildren. The rest is adolescent self indulgence.

It is not rags to riches, but rags to better rags. It is better to be free and wear rags.

I live in Wisconsin, were plenty if not most Germans historically immigrated to, so I know the Midwestern winters. Germans - plenty of whom were alcoholics - were not the only ones to brave Midwestern winters. Plenty of Black-Americans have done it. And the Amerindians did it for centuries in primitive shelters and foot wear - how I will never know and that is the greater awe to me.

I agree with some of your views on contemporary United States. Though, the 1700s, 1800s, and 1920s and 30s were waaaaay more wild times in the United States than the 1950s. Legal brothels existed in many cities throughout the United States all the way into the latter 1800s. Some Western towns all the way into the late 1800s were anything but "Leave It To Beaver" family type atmosphere. They were places of hard work, fortune seekers, hustlers, killers, prostitution, gambling dens, anything goes drugs, outlaws become law men and places were rule was had by lynchings, mob justice, and the colt 45. And the ghettos of New York were sometimes worse than them all - especially with the addition of many male child boys, dressed as girls, and prostituting on the streets of New York. Which, during that time, few adults and police had little problem with but the child prostitutes and not the adult johns. New York during much of the 1800s was quite apocalyptic in certain areas.

In the 1920s, Al Capone, in gangland Chicago, was being driven around in a 7 ton armored car, including bullet resistant glass, and specially designed rear area to the car to allow his bodyguards to shootout. Al Capone lived in a hotel and had secret passage built in. By 26 Al Capone headed the most profitable mafia in the U.S., controlled perhaps 50% of the Chicago police force, effectively controlled all of the suburb of Cicero and appointed its mayors (and his men beat and or shot anyone who voted against his politicians), and Capone literally had more armed security than President Coolege (spelling?), the President of the United States.

The immigrant story isn't simply or only a Leave It To Beaver story of God loving people with few to no sins and just "hard work."

"So it is in many other Latin American countries. Less people starve in Cuba, and health care there is better for the masses than in the US." Dom Olivero

"Japanese are successful in Japan, I have no idea where you get this idea Japanese have to immigrate to the United States to obtain a chance at college education for their children" e harmony

"What Chinese? They were effectively banned from enjoying full citizenship through the Chinese Exclusion Act which restricted Chinese immigration into the United States. That last up until the mid 20th century. Prior to that Chinese worked as coolies in the USA. Read about them building the Trans Atlantic Railroad." e harmony

I grew up in California. The Chinese in the U.S. are some of the best engineers and mathematicians at some of the best universities from as "coolies". They are future oriented. It is about life accumulating through generations, regardless of the hardship.

The Japenese own Hawaii, and in spite of internment developed in agriculture throughout California. They also have produced an extraordinary abundance of engineers, mathematicians, doctors, disproportionately to their population.

Ethnicity and cultural mores have caused the variation of economic and social success in the U.S.

There are more bars in Wisconsin than anyplace in the U.S. and this is the German influence, as one Wisconsonian told me.

I was looking at property along the Wisconsin River. Flies in Summer and bitter cold in Winter.

A. Brazilian this is a group conversation, you are expected to differentiate what you have said ie third world people are monkies, mules, dogs and other assorted animals, from what others have said, ie e harmony's diatribe on the Chinese and Japenese history in the U.S.

You can take offense where you wish, and glean what truth's you are able from the totality of the rope, which you would neologistically call a thread, ie a thread of thought.

The 'thread' begins with the concept of MST and free land. Then evolves through the morality and history of the historical theft of land and of the lives of people through slavery.

Then we move through the transcendence of poverty through particular ethnic philosophies and propensities.

Listening to your lineality is like you at the running of the bulls at Pamplona doing a mime of running.

I would suggest you read Huxley and see if you can open the 'doors to perception'.

Either you lack the reading skills or is just ill intended. Your so called knowledge on history is pure fantasy. The deliberate misinterpretation of what I said is just a form of distracting the readers from the prejudice against third world countries that you displayed. Your accusations have no evidence either on history or this forum, since nobody was arguing about Cuba being this or that.

The author makes the case for the MST, and against Lula...interesting. It is the difference between black and white, either you side with the MST or you side with Lula. Now I am no Lula fan, I don't believe that he has brought strong leadership to Brazil. While I am not too concerned aout what the MST think or do, I feel Lula's failure was his impotence in bringing a new honesty to governement, instead, choosing to allow the status qo.

Still the author points to other leftist governments in the region, cheering Chavez, Morales and Castro. Obviously he would like to see the Brazilian governement shut down Globo and nationalize telecom and agriculture. It is funny, at least in Venzeula we saw people demonstrate in the streets. If Lula "were" to shut down Globo, Brazilians would continue to go to the beach or plan for Carnaval, never having the courage to raise up. Lula could easly move left, but that would kill the current gains in the Brazilian economic markets.

And of course the article mentions that the MST meeting demonstrated "anger at the US" for Iraq, Palestine, Haiti and Afganistan. How many members of the MST actually have the education level and access to media to really understand the global conflict. Tell me, what has Brazil done to help mitigate the situations in Palestine, Hatai, Darfur or Afganistan? Are they a player in the Middle East peace process? Have they sent aid or spoke out against the genecide in Darfur, taken the lead? Do they have troops on the ground trying to prevent the Taliban and Al Queda from bringing down democracy and rasing their murderous regimes again? Oh Hatai, they hide in their Armored Personel carriers and the Generals they send there are corrupt and imcompetent, Brazil is the perfect illustration of the UN problems.

Instead of throwing garbage in the US Embassy compound, perhaps they should worry more about the garbage in the streets of the cities favalas, or the garbage and enviromental damage they do to the land they STEAL and occupy it. Perhaps instead of asking for stolen land they should be taking about education and social justice for their children...I am not sure how spewing anti-Americanism helps their case, it's just chic right now to hate America.

There is an opportunity here for both the US and Brazil, Lula seems to recognize it, so does the US. We need a friend in the region, Chavez and has band of misfits are sure to fall into chaos, Chavez loves the poor so much he has made 200,000 more of them. We need Brazil's friendship for security and economic reasons. Brazil needs us for the same. The MST has an agenda that leads to modern day communisum, Lula has been smart to steer clear of that motley bunch.

Wow, 17,000 MST showed up from 24 states...that about a fifth of the people who show up for a good football match in Rio. Why would Lula or anyone else be threatened by a gang of thugs and losers, he is not the smartest leader in the world...but smart enough to not give a s**t about the MST.

written by Dom Oliveiro, 2007-06-19 11:00:32 Less people starve in Cuba, and health care there is better for the masses than in the US." Dom Olivero

BTW Brazil is not a third world country. It is one of the largest countries economically in the world. You keep using that strawman like your reference to the third world as monkeys, or dogs.

You cannot use this as an excuse for any of Brazil's failings, it is fast becoming one of the most important countries in the world.

You mistake historical fact for prejudice. Most of your texting contains references to racism, prejudice, your obsession makes you a 'monkey's uncle'

The origins of the
phrase "I'll be a monkey's uncle," which means to express
disbelief or skepticism at an idea, or surprise when you find
something unexpected to be true.

The publication of Darwin's theory of evolution in the "Decent
of Man" was greeted with derision and a great deal of skepti-
cism. The idea that man is related by a common ancestor to
apes and monkeys was considered the most outrageous of the
claims.

"I'll be a monkey's uncle" was originally a sarcastic remark
by a non-believer of Darwin's theory and was intended to
ridicule the theory of evolution.


You also mistake the word preference to prejudice. I prefer to live in Sausalito along the beach to the mountains of Pakistan or Afghanistan, or Darfur, or Ethiopia, or Bangladesh, or Nigeria etc., etc. I also prefer to live amongst people with integrity and a respect for law and the fundamental self evident equality of man, regardless of ethnicity.

I expect to put an end to this conversation with this post.This is obviously going nowhere because you can't or won't even read and understand the text.

The evidence:

The fact the term "monkey" was used doesn't have a "racial" connotation necessarily. That interpretation was entirely yours. You assumed I made a racial reference because, unlike what you had written, you know very well what I am referring to. I even suggested "dogs", "mules" and you still didn't notice the trap.

I don't think you are even prepared to discuss the things you want to discuss, so continuing is like try to argue with a fanatical religious bigot that doesn't even realize his own ignorance. That doesn't mean that all religious people are like that, and I have met some very intelligent ones, but you look like the not-so-gifted small ones.

Unlike your senseless babbling about a single word I used, "racism" is a very well document aspect of the American culture, even today. As examples we can have the many Mark Wells articles in this site, the many "racial" opinions of the many participants of this forum, AES and his "Nordic Theory", and this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...Great_Race .

Although wikipedia is not a trustworthy source by any stretch of imagination, and the opinions expressed here are not representative of every single American alive, this is enough to give at least an idea of what I made reference to by using animal terms. This is 100% American.

This debate has gone through months and months on this forum, you are just unaware of how much things were discussed. You won't fool anybody. And the curious part is that it all started by Mark Wells articles (at least it was when I started visiting this site), no Brazilian would ever bring such topic to discussion.

Well, I won't even comment your historical hallucinations because it's up to you to prove them. And you haven't done it so far.

'Historical hallucinations'. The proof is experiential. To refer to others as 'monkeys' is Grant's thesis. You consistently perpetuate this perception. Perhaps you do not realize the failure to realize the commonality of man, that it is one species homo sapien sapien.

To denegrate others as less then human allows for the horrific, slavery, genocide.

There is no academic fault in any proposition put forth. The failure of perception is yours. Your perception is academic, it is not based on the experiential.

I suggest you read C.J. Jung.

written by igor, 2007-06-20 08:40:44
"So it is in many other Latin American countries. Less people starve in Cuba, and health care there is better for the masses than in the US." Dom Olivero

"Japanese are successful in Japan, I have no idea where you get this idea Japanese have to immigrate to the United States to obtain a chance at college education for their children" e harmony

"What Chinese? They were effectively banned from enjoying full citizenship through the Chinese Exclusion Act which restricted Chinese immigration into the United States. That last up until the mid 20th century. Prior to that Chinese worked as coolies in the USA. Read about them building the Trans Atlantic Railroad." e harmony

I grew up in California. The Chinese in the U.S. are some of the best engineers and mathematicians at some of the best universities from as "coolies". They are future oriented. It is about life accumulating through generations, regardless of the hardship.

Igor, many of those Chinese in California you are speaking of are probably fairly new arrivals to the U.S. - meaning their parents probably came here. Many perhaps too, are descendants of the "coolies" I spoke of. Black-Americans have risen from where they were economically during slavery. So what does that all mean?

Here's the deal: the United States dominated global exporting after WWII because all the industrialized countries were bombed to h*ll. That's how the United States exploded into a superpower. But that same reality no longer exists today, plenty of countries are exporting plenty of products, and U.S. jobs are leaving for overseas for cheaper costs. Hard work has only a little to do with making money and it has almost nothing to do with making a lot of money. Most very wealthy people derive incomes not from simply wages or salaries but from things such as dividends and or inheritances.

Most people in the United States born into middle-class families remain in the middle-class for the rest of their life. It has always been like this. Of course that is not to say there is not upward and downward movement in the U.S. because there is. For a long time the United States was the only country on earth that allowed this mobility of up and down. Today however, one can find it in plenty of places around the world. In fact the movement up and down the economic ladder is better in Hong Kong than it is in the contemporary U.S.

The same immigrant story you give of improved generations can be found in Brazil. Read Carlos Ghosn book. His Grandfather came from Lebanon with nothing, to Brazil, started his own business eventually, built up a respectably sound financial portfolio, and passed on wealth to his children. Plenty of Italian immigrants came to Brazil and built economically sound lives for themselves also.

The Japenese own Hawaii, and in spite of internment developed in agriculture throughout California. They also have produced an extraordinary abundance of engineers, mathematicians, doctors, disproportionately to their population.

The Japanese have done well in Brazil too. You'll find more Japanese surnames in the Brazilian political machines than you will in the United States. Peru for godsake had a Japanese President not to long ago, President Fujimori. Likewise, look and see how many people of Arab ethnicity or descent have risen to become Presidents of their nations in Latin America. The wealthiest man right now in Mexico (a billionaire or multi-billionaire) is an ethnic Arab.

Throughout all the Americas, the Amerindians and black peoples and mulattos tend to be on the bottom end of their nations economic ladders while the immigrants tend to demonstrate over generations a much greater upward mobility. I suspect there is a reason for this - and its simply not just a lack of hard work. I would almost bet it has much more to do with a lack of knowing how to access, and navigate, the various structures and institutions within capitalism. From my experience in Black-America families, they almost pass on zero knowledge related to finance and economics to their children. The only idea passed on is "find a job." I'm here to tell you simply "finding a job" does not thrust one into sound financial security. You can work hard and die poor. In the 21st century, working smart, and eventually trying to build at least some wealth in the form of dividends over wages or salaries is a better route, especially in the U.S. where low-paying service work is the skyrocketing form of employment.

Abe,

I am afraid our new friend Igor has actually put you on the spot. Your position that the use of the word "monkey" when describing a person or people as not being racial is being simply dishonest. Your use of this word, when combined with your usuaul bigoted posts and comments ensure our knowledge that for sure you meant to charecterize people of color as "Monkeys", as you have frequently called me the "Hispanic" which is true in a normal non-racial sense, but your use of the word is racial indeed. However, you may call me Hispanic, Spic, w*****k or Beaner, it does not bother me one bit, I have heard them all. I would just love to compare bank accounts with you...the only thing that really matters.

It is clear to everyone that reads your posts, that you are a bigot and insecure (afraid?) moron, with disdain for people with different ethnic backgrounds and colors. The South has a term for people like you...Grand Dragon.

Well writ.

porch monkey
A derogatory way of describing a person of African decent.

It is equivalent to the word 'n****r'

Perhaps you are merely ignorant of this or merely ignorant.

I suggest you read C.J. Jung.

Which book from him?

The South has a term for people like you...Grand Dragon.

Could you please explain what is this "Grand Dragon"? Something to do with China?

CARL JUNG
1875-1961

"An inflated consciousness is always egocentric and conscious of nothing but its own existence. It is incapable of learning from the past, incapable of understanding contemporary events, and incapable of drawing right conclusions about the future. It is hypnotized by itself and therefore cannot be argued with. It inevitably dooms itself to calamities that must strike it dead"

Man and His Symbols
The Arcchetypes and Collective Unconscious

Noun 1. grand dragon - a high ranking person in the Ku Klux Klan
KKK, Klan, Ku Klux Klan - a secret society of white Southerners in the United States; was formed in the 19th century to resist the emancipation of slaves; used terrorist tactics to suppress Black people
chief, top dog, head - a person who is in charge; "the head of the whole

Thanks for the clarifications and I appreciate your fine gesture.This GTY has been calling me a Grand Dragon for months and I thought he was paying tributes to me.Now that I know it is a derogatory term, I will confront this lowley "Coolie" GTY. Leave it to me.In the meantime,be very careful with this GTY.He is a deadley character,as venemous as a Cascavel.

Him calling me a Grand Dragon, I cant accept this insult.

To:E Harmony
written by João da Silva, 2007-06-20 18:49:42

The South has a term for people like you...Grand Dragon.



Could you please explain what is this "Grand Dragon"? Something to do with China?

I didn't make that statement and don't remember reading it. So I'm not sure what context it was used in. If it was used to denote someone as racist, it was probably meant to reference an upper rank leader in the KKK, like Igor pointed out.

I didn't make that statement and don't remember reading it. So I'm not sure what context it was used in. If it was used to denote someone as racist, it was probably meant to reference an upper rank leader in the KKK, like Igor pointed out.

Of course you did not make that statement.It was GTY who used the phrase "Grand Dragon" and I merely wanted the correct interpretation.Now that Igor and you have clarified the issue, I shall confront him.No worries,mate.

I have called you Gilligan, even questioned your sexuality after reading your soapy posting to your friend the Professor...but never a "Grand Dragon", perhaps you are in error my little buddy. I do use the term to describe the Brazilian whose overt racisim he wears on his sleeve. You have bragged about your European lineage in several postings, quick to point out you are a Brazilian without any black blood, while the does not qualify as the head of the KKK, it is a bit suspect.

By the way, "Coolie" is a racist term, a deragatory word used to describe Asians, Chinese in particular...do you have something against Asians? As you know, I am 1/2 Mexican, the proper racist term for me, GTY would be w*****k, or spic, or beaner...please use the correct racist term when commenting on me in the future.

1.) The "Cuba" issue was raised by ther first poster to the issue, "aes", I have since responded (ca. 5th post) and "igor"hyas taken to his USAnian instincts and defended "aes" on that.

2.) "igor" voiced his appreciation of Brazil in the early 1970s as a more civilized era in the history of that country. Here I agree. However, like many Central and South American countries in that epoch Brazil then had a US imposed and supported dictatorship in charge in order to avert "communism", or just a political system with broader social considerations.

These nigh 30 years of military rule only about a decade after the Vargas era where devastating for the social fabric of the society and any belief in the "real" existence of democratic values.

3.) For what large land holdings is concerned, I suppose our American friends should leave this issue to the Brazilians and keep their friggin' fingers out, for a change. Brazilian democracy will sort this out all by itself.

South america as a whole is the way it is because the US intervened freeley whenever they perceived a need for this, and not because they simply let them go about their business, Cuba being an exception. there US-friend Batista could be gratefully removed. If the Castro rule was ideal is a different question, however, I think it beats many other Latin American reigns, at least for the majority of the poor, and they are the over-all majority.

Well, if this is considered anti-American; well surely, it is not pro-American. And if some people go that far to blow up your office buildings, maybe our American friends at some stage should curb their usual verbosity matched with righteousness, turn introspective and ask yourselves what you have done, and still do!, to cause such strong adverse sentiments.

From a civilisatory viewpoint your country may be quite wealthy, but few first world coutries have such a huge number of poor and uneducated people. No other first world country resorts to the death penalty any more and all others have universal health care. To get to the US murder rate all other civilised countries' rates have to be multiplied.

Now, our American friends can boast that Brazil is much worse. Obrigado! Give Brazil a chance to become a fully fledged member of the "first world", but please understand, the USA is not exactly the best example in any way! If you were at least capitalists enough to deal with agricultural imports from Brazil, but your pansy farmers are like the Europeans and need subsidies.

Nice try

I knew you wouldnt fall for it

please use the correct racist term when commenting on me in the future.

A nice try on your part too!

The Press Law of 1967 is your greatest impediment to a free press and a great nation.

The law was made unconstitutional in '88. It is this and this alone that allows corruption in Brazil. And with corruption poverty. The Press Law of '67 though unconstitutional is still practiced. No wonder the press are in such fear. The constitution guaranteed free expression. But its expression at your own peril. besides civil penalty are CRIMINAL penalty, incarceration for libel and slander real or perceived.

You apparently do not have a free press. The Press Law of '67 is still enforced how is this possible? Fear of prosecution is the impediment to a free Brazil.

Gonna lay low, heading to the islands in the morning. Have em all really pissed off on the other string. You know me, just can't help myself. Have a good weekend.

Peace

I would just love to compare bank accounts with you...the only thing that really matters.

This can not came from a god person.Definitely.

I have no desire to be "good" just rich. Sorry, but it is a simple fact that with money comes real freedom. You can spin it any way you want, a paycheck and the size of it, directly determines the quaility of life you can ultimatly have from health care to education, recreation to charity. One of the benefits is the ability to travel the world, allowing you familiy to experience things they otherwise could not.

See ya Joao

Thanks and you too have a safe trip.

with money comes real freedom

directly determines the quality of life you can ultimately have from health care to education, recreation to charity. One of the benefits is the ability to travel the world, allowing you family to experience things they otherwise could not.

That's something I definitely agree with. But the problem is the mentality. REAL rich people usually have more noble attitudes and NEVER throw their money in the face of others, actually, they tend to be more discret.
One thing I hate the most is people with money and ZERO culture and sense of reality.
They are the elite. they have the obligation to establish the parameters on how humanity should be, like the european nobles in 1800. They have money to "buy" cultere and be the Nitsche's Superman. They should lead the humanity to a higher ground of living, and not act like some Paris Hilton...

"REAL rich people usually have more noble attitudes and NEVER throw their money in the face of others, actually, they tend to be more discret. "

Come on, your kidding righ, they live in a completly different world, oblivious of you ar me or the problems of the world...grow up. I never said I was rich, but I am working at it, also never claimed to be "Noble" and don't want to. Just want me family to enjoy life without having to work 70 hours a week, afford to buy the car I want, eat in the places I desire and get a world class eductaion for my kids. Want to retire at 56, not 76...no apoligizes.

"They are the elite. they have the obligation to establish the parameters on how humanity should be, like the european nobles in 1800. They have money to "buy" cultere and be the Nitsche's Superman. They should lead the humanity to a higher ground of living, and not act like some Paris Hilton... "

Just like the noble Brazilian elite right Magnus?

"One thing I hate the most is people with money and ZERO culture and sense of reality."

How many times and how many ways have I heard this nonsense??? People without always accusing people of means of not having culture and a sense of reality. The fact is, capitalism IS the US culture, it feeds the worlds economy. We really don't give a s**t about yours, or Germany's or Japan's culture unless its cars or food. And the best thing is that here, you can CHANGE your reality if you want to. You can give everything away to charity and live on some island in Margatritaville, or you can raise up from poverty and become some one. Why do you think we have 12M illegal immigrants here? Many of them your former countrymen, working for the noble elite and having a chance to become the elite themselves.

Just like the noble Brazilian elite right Magnus?

Thre's good elite and the bad elite. But understand something. I'm from the south. There's no "elites" here, as in the sense of north eastern or carioca elite. It was a later colonization. The government only gave then a little piece of land and some tools. This place was colonized by immigrants that wanted to build a country, like in the US, and not some Portuguese "friends of the king" that just wanted to suck the land dry, like in the rest of Brasil. There are Portuguese here too, but they came LATER, and with the same good mentality I mentioned above. They were, in their mother lands, small, poor farmers or some independent worker, such as shoe makers, watches fixers ( I don't know how to say that in english), carpenters. etc. That's why this place has the best quality of life and social rates than the rest of Brasil.

There were "Cattle Kings" here before those immigrants, but for never well understood reasons, they have a different mentality of the rest of Brasil's elite. they freed they slaves earlier (there wasn't so many of them already), became poor for helping their employees and stuff. Brasil don't accept us very well and we don't understand then very well (except paulistas), for everything I mentioned and a lot of other things. João probably knows exactly what am I talking about. Ask your illegal brasilians workers if any of them are from the south. There are, but not so many.

Sorry, I ended up a little off topic here.

But I am for the unified Brasil, that's why the "Magnus Brasil". That's how the portuguese used to call what they thought was an island, surrounded in the west by the amazonas river and prata river. And my real name is Magnus, so...

About what I thing of the subject we were discussing before I got off topic, read my post here:
http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/9910/1/

Impressive to see how some people believe all sorts of fairy tales about the American experience and accepts all of the distortions created by status quo Historians sanitazed accounts of it. The white washing of a history of unprecedented levels of attrocities, genocide and unparallel brutality.

Namely, the notion that galant Europeans "discovered", pacefully came, interacted in a fair and cordial manner with the natives then generouslly spread goodwill, forged a great nation based on higher principles of morality and humanity and of civilazing the savages for their own benefit. Quite a "history", indeed. These notions are so far from reality, I can only ask those who believe in them, what color is the sky in your little fantasy Island?

The whole of the Americas were since the very first expeditions, funded by European emperial powers with one single intent, To obtain gold, land and resources to fund more conquest, wars and the pompous a lavish lifestyle of European nobility. Nothing noble about it. They did not send educated diplomats to do that job, they sent the most vile, murderous, caniving barbarians they could force to come enticed by the lure of riches or in exchange from prison sentences, as well as social climbing to higher social positions in their respective countries. The worse of the worst in their societies were hand picked to do this dirty work, propensity for cruelty and indiscriminate killings, military experience were recognized and praised as desirable traits for conquistadors.Pizzarro and Cortez were not exactlly gentleman, now were they?

Slavery was wide spread and acceptable practice everywhere even after abolition. Slave labor still exists in America, be that in agriculture, day labor, construction or any other activity performed by legal and illegal aliens in this country or even sweat shops in chinatown, set up smack in the heart of Manhattan. If you want to look further and recent evidence look at Jack Abramoff. Abbramoff's first big client was the government of the U.S. Pacific territory, the Northern Mariana Islands. He got $9 million for himself and donations for Tom DeLay's PACs by pushing virtual slave labor in the Marianas' unregulated garment sweatshops. Norquist promoted these Asian-Pacific cheap-labor schemes, while DeLay forced legislation through Congress permitting labor-crushing conditions in the islands.

As for land distribution or re-distribution, which is the real topic here. All land in the Americas were stolen by Europeans, deeded under European land ownership laws, blessed by the church to ligitimize the stealing of it ( Spanish -Portuguese territories).

During the expansionist era, the US government, purchased the Louisiana territories from the French, then later stole the intire southwest from Mexico in the Spanish American war. These are just a few historical milestones in a vast history of impropriety and vicious European enterprise in the Americas. Africa paid an enourmous price for the building of the colonies, African americans in particular paid so great a price, the US government has consistently dismissed payment of reparations for the abuses of centuries of slavery. 40 acres and a mule, with no credit, seeds, subsidies or infra structure can hardly be considered appropriate compensation for anything. It is more a slap in the face and smacks of arrogance and disrespect. Here, your two mules and your 40 acres... off you go... chop, chop. RIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.
Not to mention all other waves of subsequent immigrants willing to come. The Chinese and Irish . An Irishman in America or a Chinese were worth nothing. A negro, which were actual property and worth money and comonlly traded in public markets, would not be wasted in hard and dangerous labor.Not to say tha the life on the plantations were a walk in the park. The Chinese and the Irish built the railways and worked the coal mines. Thousands died, they were disposable because the ports were filled with thousands more to replace them.

As for Lula and the MST business.Enough was said already. It is most unfortunate that the MST has actually believed that Lula was 1) of the left, 2) he meant what he said during political runs, 3) that politicians always do what they say they will and hardly ever lie. 4) that it can be done in such a short time frame.

So wake up and smell the coffee, and stop trying to sell the propaganda you were too stupid and uneducated to see right thru or too lazy to read and too ignorant to pick the right books to read.

Cheers!

written by Dom Oliveiro, 2007-06-21 11:43:03

2.) "igor" voiced his appreciation of Brazil in the early 1970s as a more civilized era in the history of that country. Here I agree. However, like many Central and South American countries in that epoch Brazil then had a US imposed and supported dictatorship in charge in order to avert "communism", or just a political system with broader social considerations.

Imposed??? You just have to love ignorant idiots such as this when they try and say the U.S. "imposed" military rule. Wow, we "imposed" military rule and never put one single soldier on the ground, not one M-16, didn't fire a single shot. Imagine the power the U.S. must yield by being able to "impose" a regime change by simply putting a few CIA agents on the ground.

I won't argue with your usage of "supported", as it is correct. But the coup d'etat that occurred in brazil was organized, planned, and carried out by.....are you ready......B-R-A-Z-I-L-I-A-N-S!!

OUCH!!!

Does anyone in this entire country of 185,000,000 people ever accept responsibility for anything?

During the expansionist era, the US government, purchased the Louisiana territories from the French, then later stole the intire southwest from Mexico in the Spanish American war.

No one "stole" anything my friend. Are you familiar with history and wars?? Have you ever heard the term, "to the victor go the spoils"? I mean, it's been like that since the beginning of civilization. The U.S. army arrived in......MEXICO CITY! The U.S. gov't. could have, if it so desired.....annexed the entire f**king country! But, it didn't. It, get this.....PAID for New Mexico and California as well as Texas for a total sum of 35 million dollars. And......mexico agreed, they didn't have much choice, as I stated, the U.S. could've annexed the entire joint.

I won't argue with your usage of "supported", as it is correct. But the coup d'etat that occurred in brazil was organized, planned, and carried out by.....are you ready......B-R-A-Z-I-L-I-A-N-S!!

I wont argue with this gentleman´s comment.The organizers also nurtured our beloved current President (who did not go in exile,but stayed here) to one day occupy the nation´s highest post to continue their good work.

"REAL rich people usually have more noble attitudes and NEVER throw their money in the face of others, actually, they tend to be more discret. "

I'll talk issue with that. People come in all shapes, sizes, and forms. I know and have known NUMEROUS rich people in my life. And I'm not talking about people with a few million dollars, I'm talking about people with hundreds of millions. I'm also friends with a lady by the name of Maggie Hardy, she dated my roommate in college, I've ridden in her rolls and also her old mans helicopter and been to their mansion in Nemacolin Pa, it's 15 minutes from my house in WV. Google her, she's worth 3 billion. The point is some rich people DO throw money in the face of others....I know several.