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Playing the Race Game in Brazil's Shopping Malls PDF Print E-mail
Written by Vânia Penha-Lopes   
Wednesday, 28 November 2007 15:28

Rio Sul shopping mall in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Sociology teaches us that spaces are not neutral; just as race or color are attributed to persons, groups, and organizations, so too are the spaces we occupy racialized. In other words, either the spaces are projected with the express intention to serve certain groups or certain groups use them more and end up attributing to them a given race or color.

Shopping malls - or "shoppings," as Brazilians call them - are examples of racialized spaces. That may happen as a result of the intersection of race with social class. Through their stores and location, malls communicate to people which level of purchasing power is welcome there.

Because in Brazil, even more than in other countries, purchasing power is so connected to color that many still insist that Brazil does not have a racial problem, but only an economic one (as if it were impossible for both problems to coexist), the higher the purchasing power of the customers, the lighter their skins tend to be.

Such is the case of several Brazilian malls. Their hundreds of stores display exclusive merchandise, such as clothing by international designers and expensive sneakers. Clearly the goal of those malls is to cater to dwellers of neighborhoods so privileged that their Human Development Index (HDI) is as high as those of Scandinavian countries (whereas the HDI of some other areas in Brazil are as low as those of some African countries).

And if all customers do not exactly look like blond Scandinavians, at least most of them are white. In many cases, they go as families, often accompanied by small children.

All of that is reasonably expected. However, when friends of mine suggested an outing to a mall located in Rio de Janeiro's South Zone this past July, my anthropological eye had not expected to capture the contrast between the skin color and overall appearance of the women customers and that of their helpers.

The customers - long-haired brunettes, in excellent shape, fashionably dressed in T-shirts, jeans, and platform sandals - were followed by young women: all mulatto, all dressed in white, all in inexpensive sneakers, all carrying the shopping bags in addition to minding the customers' small children. I insist on referring to them as "mulatto" because none was very light- or dark-skinned.

Why the white "uniform"? It occurred to me that that standardization made no sense, given the nannies' job. Since the nannies maintained physical contact with the children, they were in constant risk of soiling their clothes with candy, chocolate, soda, or worse. In other words, those white uniforms were far from practical.

They were, however, powerful markers of the nannies' racial space in that they served to keep them undifferentiated in a collective of servitude. Their clothes made them at once invisible (because they made it difficult to tell one nanny from another) and, paradoxically, highly visible as poor non-whites who were temporarily occupying a space reserved for whites with means.

Those repetitive images brought back to mind the pre-abolitionist paintings by Rugendas and Debret, in which well-to-do families strolled in Rio accompanied by their house slaves. At that time, downtown was the chic part of town; the splendor of the South Zone would remain unknown to most of the population for years to come.

I do not mean to deny the end of slavery or to equate the status of the nannies with that of the slaves. And I do not intend to insinuate that the mall forbids blacks from shopping in it either; after all, no one stopped me at the entrance or prevented me from strolling freely in the stores.

I suggest, however, that the city continues to be racially demarcated. Some spaces are indeed open to non-whites only if they do so in a position of inequality. The mall is an illustration of the fact that, after so many years after the abolition of slavery, most black Brazilians have yet to reach the necessary conditions to be fully integrated in society as equals.

Attached to that is the high economic inequality that characterizes Brazil. Income and wealth distribution is such that most of the population is poor, the middle class is small, and the upper class, much smaller yet. Class intersects with color, so that the upper class is almost completely white.

On the other hand, the lowest class is more evenly distributed; Brazil is not South Africa. Thus, I am sure that poor whites also feel intimidated in economically privileged spaces.

Historically, Brazil has admitted the existence of its deep economic inequalities without having done much to eradicate them. With the establishment of an affirmative action program, Brazil has started to recognize the insidious presence of racial or color inequality as well as to combat its old economic inequalities.

Those who carry the flag that Brazil is not racist insist on reducing all our social inequalities to an unfair wealth distribution. However, a simple visit to a better-off mall demonstrates that race, or color, and purchasing power walk hand in hand in Brazil.

Vânia Penha-Lopes, a native of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, has a Ph.D. in sociology from New York University and was a postdoctoral fellow at the Universidade do Estado do Rio de Janeiro (2006-07). She is an associate professor of sociology at Bloomfield College, in New Jersey, and a columnist at Afropress, a Brazilian online publication.

Comments (160)Add Comment
Racial Profiling?
written by costinha, November 28, 2007
That's an american (us of a) patent.

Nuf said...
Response from a PhD in Social Anthropology, Museu Nacional, Rio de Janeiro
written by Thaddeus Blanchette, November 29, 2007
Vânia, your analysis of racialized space in carioca shopping centers is as acute as it it is sensitive and timely. I particularly appreciate your ability to discern that it is the intersection of multiple exclusions - race AND class AND color - which construct these spaces and their inhabitants.

However, I have two questions for you...

1) Recent polls indicate that close to 90% of Brazilians believe and will affirm that their country is racist. So who, exactly, are "those who carry the flag that Brazil is not racist"? Can you name us some names? Because it very much looks to me, cousin, that you are preaching to the choir on this one. The kind of affirmations you make here may have been relevations back in 1974, but they certainly aren't now, at least to any moderately informed Brazilian social scientist. So why the insistent North American need (and in spite of your birth place, you have been as much educated in the North American academic tradition as I have been in the Brazilian) to repeatedly denounce Brazilian racism as if nothing has changed in public perceptions of this phenomenon since the halcyon days of Freire's Luso-tropicalism? You'd think you'd folks would have moved to catch up with Brazilian analyses of racism in this country by now. No one of consequence denies that Brazil suffers from racial exclusion any more.

2) You talk of shopping centers as if they were homogenous phenomena. Surely you've been to other shoppings than those in Rio's toney (and very white) asphalt South Zone? Have you never been to any shoppings in the Northern Zone, cousin? Don't you think that an analysis and comparison of THOSE OTHER shoppings (to steal a term from Mall Rats) would enrich your appreciation of racial spaces in Brazil? Because when I go to the shopping in São Gonçalo, I don't see many white patricinhas being followed by mulatta minders. I do see, however, many brown Dona Marias being followed around by equally dark or darker housemaids.

Finally, you mention the illustrations of Rugendas and Debret. I commend you to look a bit closer at them. There's a classic one in particular which I have in mind. I'm sure you will recall it. It is an illustration of a Luso-Brazilian (and very white) shoe-maker applying the palmatório to one of his African slaves. Behind him and to the left, we see his mulata wife or concubine, carrying their child and laughing at the spectacle, as it was she who caused the slave to be punished.

It is comforting to believe that exclusion in Brazil can be simply reduced to a two dimensional child's algebra of race and color. The concept that ethnicity trumps class is one which has historically been quite dear to the U.S. American social sciences. But while racism unquestionably exists in our society and while exclusion cannot likewise be reduced to a class question, it is blindingly obvious that simple black/white definitions of race and exclusion are NOT the first resource common, everyday cariocas reach for when they view and describe their world. Things are much more complex here than that.

I hope you are trying to bring this complexity into your work and are not yet one more in a dismayingly large number of transplanted Brazilian academics who are trying to build a career by cutting Brazilian realities to fit into North American conceptual frameworks.
KKK is opening franchise stores all over the world.
written by A Brazilian, November 29, 2007
No one of consequence denies that Brazil suffers from racial exclusion any more.


I do. At the end you said the very problem with this trend here:

who are trying to build a career by cutting Brazilian realities to fit into North American conceptual frameworks.


That's it. Brazilians say Brazil is racist because the vast majority never traveled abroad, they only know about other countries what they see in the movies and they are trying to be politically correct. Interpreting the number of 90% as a sign that we are all convinced that Brazil is racist is too simplistic, and as an example I give the general reaction against the racist "black conscience" day. The only ones I heard praising it were either activists, opportunistic politicians, journalists or sociologists who are ideologically engaged. The common guy, almost all of them, despises it. I have still to meet a single person who doesn't work in a newspaper or in a university to say anything good about it. The idea that this is racism is generalized.

Also remember that we are in a English speaking forum and there are historical differences between societies. The individuals that come to this place have a completely different view than Brazil. They are used to think in terms of "racial purity" and anglo-saxons ideals of race. Whoever reads it will understand that you are saying that Brazil is just as racist as the US was in the beginning of the XX century.

Racial concepts in Brazil are different and that's a good thing. I also deny the statistics about blacks in Brazil because they are false. The criteria adopted for determining "who's black" is the anglo-saxon one when it matters (for example, they boost the total number of blacks in Brazil by summing the number of morenos to it, so they can say that "algmost half of Brazil is black", which is much bigger than the official IBGE census numbers) or the brazilian criteria when it suits their goals better (for example, to calculate the average salary of blacks and whites, or to show the division or race in schools and colleges they use the brazilian scale, so the numbers will be much smaller and they can say that the opportunities or the number of students are too low).

Lies based on produced statistics, complete disregard for Brazil's history and culture, and isolated cases of racism are all you have. Not enough.

I chose this subject because it seems that racist organizations are trying to set up business here in Brazil just like McDonalds or Burger King. Soon there will be networks for the African, Jew, Nazi diasporas and they will all work against what is best for this nation. No, thanks.
after so many years after the abolition of slavery,.....
written by ch.c., November 29, 2007
........Brazil still has slavery.....is more appropriate and sadly true.

And to the idiot...A Brazilian : are churascarias not ALL over the world ? Should we close them down using your own ideology ?


Ohhhhh and are they not millions of Brazilians ILLEGALLY ALL OVER THE WORLD ...ON TOP OF THE LEGALS ? iT IS NOT SOON BUT THERE ARE ALREADY DIASPORAS OF BRAZILIANS ALL OVER THER WORLD. By all over the world I mean...the wealthy countries, because of course, Brazilians have no desire to work in China, Asia, India, Russia or Africa. Guess why.
You are even ready to pay US$ 10'000.- to get out of your apparent paradise to go to hell !
Strange...isnt it ?

Is this what wealthy nations want ? NO THANKS !

Brazilians always want to take and give nothing in return. that is in your blood and genes !

Just think twice, next time, before you call others racist organizations, because Brazilians SHINE....in racism !
You just proved it.....ONCE MORE !
To the PhD in Social Anthropology, Museu Nacional, Rio de Janeiro !
written by ch.c., November 29, 2007
Your excellent question "So who, exactly, are "those who carry the flag that Brazil is not racist"? Can you name us some names?"


Of course, read the comments of...A Brazilian !!!!
And read the comments on this site of 90 % of the commentators...every time there is an article in this site on the subject of Racism in Brazil !
They agree with.....A Brazilian !!!!!

Just ask them and they will even tell you that You......PhD in Social Anthropology, Museu Nacional, Rio de Janeiro.......knows nothing about racism in Brazil, because there is none !!!!!!!!
They will even not admit that the polls made in Brazil, by Brazilians, for/with Brazilians, clearly state that BRAZILIANS admit there is racism in Brazil.
Brazilians all ove the world is normal for them, but foreigners in Brazil is NIT NORMAL for them. Same for commercial companies.
And sadly same for trade !
For most Brazilians everything mjujst be....ONE WAY....because 95 % of them have only HALF A BRAIN.

RECIPROCITY..... IS NOT EVEN IN THEIR NON EDUCATION OR IN THEIR DICTIONARY !!!!
Brazil is against the USA corn ethanol subsidizes, despite Brazil had subsidzed sugarcane ethanol for ONLY over 2 decades.
Brazil is against USA/EU farm subsidizes, but not against Brazilian subsidizes provided by loans from the BNDES at WELL WELL below the normal borrowing rates from regular banks. Same for many of your NON agricultural industries.
Brazil wants the USA/EU to reduce the farm subsidizes but Brazil refuse to open up their NON farm industries.
Brazil wants we charge lower import taxes, despite the fact that Brazil charges far more import taxes than the EU/USA charge !

Finally funny, that YOUR Vice President Açucar (Alencar) say there is no slavery in the Brazilian sugarcane industry, while BIN LULA says once that slavery in Brazil is a tragedy, and a few weeks later also say there is no salvery !!!!!!

And as an Anthropologue, YOU should know that slavery in Brazil was abolished.....on paper only.
Because if you have none, how can you free a few thousands every year, who are in fact only the tip of the iceberg ?
Ch.c
written by João da Silva, November 29, 2007
My question: Are the Swiss racists? Would appreciate your valuable comments.AND don't go into a long lecture. Just stick to the issue of racism (or lack of it) in Switzerland.
A Brazilian...
written by me, November 30, 2007
"No one of consequence denies that Brazil suffers from racial exclusion any more."
...
"I do."

From ther above exchange, it is apparent that "A Brazilian" is laboring under the misapprehension that he is someone of consequence
...
written by A Brazilian, November 30, 2007
From ther above exchange, it is apparent that "A Brazilian" is laboring under the misapprehension that he is someone of consequence


I could very well be. You don't know anything about me.
Long-haired brunettes
written by Yowser, November 30, 2007
"....long-haired brunettes, in excellent shape, fashionably dressed in T-shirts, jeans, and platform sandals......" That is why i like to visit Brazil so much!
...
written by João da Silva, November 30, 2007
"....long-haired brunettes, in excellent shape, fashionably dressed in T-shirts, jeans, and platform sandals......" That is why i like to visit Brazil so much!


What is your Port of Entry, Fortaleza?
Hey Yowser Punk!
written by costinha, November 30, 2007
You come into my neighborhood

“….you will get short-haired flamenguistas, in bulk shape, rarely dressed in T-shirts, jeans, but with some s**t-kicker boots......" That is why you will like to visit Brazil so much!
...
written by David Mendoza, December 01, 2007
I think most foreigners still believe Brazil to be a “racial democracy”.

Why go to the Mall?! Turn on Globo, or flick through any mainstream magazine, and you see a predominantly white country looking back at you.
...
written by Pancho, December 01, 2007
I am a Black American and made my first trip to Rio in August. I noticed that most blacks in Rio were in dire straits, which is probably the reason for the high crime rate. Most of us in the US don't believe Brazil is a racial democracy. It is sort of like what we had before the 60's when they said we had separate but equal. Well it was separate, but it sure was not equal. Then they would say, I would hire one, but I can't find one qualified. What had happened is that they changed the qualifications. When I started my career, I found out that I was generally more qualified that the people presently on the job. Look at the Bush administration. Chaney and Bush are dummies, but Condi has a Phd. She could not get that job if she was as qualified as Bush.

While in Rio, I did not experience any discrimination. Perhaps it was because of the wallet full of greenbacks. I left with a good feeling for the Brazilian people. But where ever I went I was ususally the only Black customer.

I think Brazil will change one day or be forced to change. The sooner you guys change, the better off all Brazilians will be. If everybody had an opportunity, crime will go down and the Favelas will probably disappear. If things don't change, the Favelas will probably blow up, meaning a riot. A lot of people will die and a lot of property destroyed and a lot of business lost. What you have now is a sore that won't heal. It is ashame, because this is an opportunity missed. Good luck Brazilians. I am pulling for ya.
To Pancho
written by CT, December 01, 2007
You may not have experienced the racism because it's silent there, if you've stayed there long enough, you would see tht they may smile in your face but will sell you out in a second.
Even with all our problems, be glad you were born in the u.s. regardless you still have much more opportunities here & people let you know wher they stand. I rather have that than not.
Costinha
written by CT, December 01, 2007
"You come into my neighborhood"

“….you will get short-haired flamenguistas, in bulk shape, rarely dressed in T-shirts, jeans, but with some s**t-kicker boots......" That is why you will like to visit Brazil so much!"

Why expand such energy, just get a gun, knife, put on a mask & run. Isn't that what usually happens.
...
written by non brazilian, December 01, 2007
Racism in Brazil has shown itself to me in interesting ways and I have yet to meet anyone who denies it exists though many who say (falsely) that they are not racist.

Novelas, advertising and government are predominantly white....

Racism is a simple fact of life here.
...
written by non brazilian, December 01, 2007
I didn´t see anything for black people to aspire to in USA, quite the contrary.

Non Brazilian
written by CT, December 01, 2007
written by non brazilian, 2007-12-01 22:18:11

"I didn´t see anything for black people to aspire to in USA, quite the contrary."

Then you must not of had your glasses on, for anyone to say that about the u.s & have lived here (if you did) & make such an ignorant statement boggles my mind.
Inthe u.s even with our faults, blacks/people of color, etc. for the most part participate in every aspect of life, blue collar, professional, every field & even our government, etc.
No where on Earth do people of color overall fear as well, nowhere.
So check your facts or even better come & live & experience it & see the respect that is afforded to everyone regardless of color whether you like to acept it or not.
To CT
written by Pancho, December 01, 2007
You may not have experienced the racism because it's silent there, if you've stayed there long enough, you would see tht they may smile in your face but will sell you out in a second.
Even with all our problems, be glad you were born in the u.s. regardless you still have much more opportunities here & people let you know wher they stand. I rather have that than not.

I realize that. I never let my guard down the whole time I was there. And I think people realized that. I grew up when it was mandatory to live in a black area of any town in the US. Therefore I am what you call street smart. We have a saying here. Yu can't play the player.
RACISMO EH MÓ RUIM, VISSE?
written by KOLINDA GRABAR, December 01, 2007
Em Salvador, a gente eh mais tolerante. Tem gente de toda cor em nossos shoppings.
A gente num eh igual ao sulistas pra gente ter racismo aqui. smilies/tongue.gif
...
written by Another Brazilian, December 02, 2007
Oh yeah, Salvador is "much better" than Rio. You still keep your n****rs in the Senzalas up there. There is no such place as segregated as Bahia.
...
written by A Brazilian, December 02, 2007
While in Rio, I did not experience any discrimination. Perhaps it was because of the wallet full of greenbacks. I left with a good feeling for the Brazilian people. But where ever I went I was ususally the only Black customer.


Two things:

- You didn't notice racism because there isn't racism in Brazil;
- You were the "only" black customer because blacks in Brazil are only 7% of the population.
Americans, you still have much to learn
written by A Brazilian, December 02, 2007
people let you know wher they stand.


How do you think it is going to be when racism disappear? You can't continue thinking binary forever, if you intend to finish with racism at all. Unless of course you are too comfortable with this "us and them"mentality. Certainly a lot of people profit from it.

But in a situation of no racism it wouldn't make any sense to have "people of color", since it wouldn't matter. That's why Brazil is many steps ahead of everyone else in the world regarding this matter. I know Brazil and the US, but I would still choose Brazil and I wouldn't want my kids to grow in the American culture to be taught to see others as "different" based on obsolete racial theories. In Brazil they might face other problems, but there's no such thing as considering people different because of race.

Indeed Brazil is the most advanced country in terms of race in the world, there's no doubt about it.
...
written by Pancho, December 03, 2007
Two things:

- You didn't notice racism because there isn't racism in Brazil;

People around the world know about the racism in Brazil. Most of the people who are affected by racism have bought into your belief. For decades it has been said that there is no racism in Brazil and everybody has bought into it. People who are obviously Black will say they are White. While you guys are at it, why don't you say that there is no poverty in Brazil. It makes about as much sense. Racism will remain in Brazil for the foreseeable future, because you have no Rosa Parks, no Medgar Evers, no Martin Luther King and no NAACP. Until somebody stands up and says enough, nothing will change. Sir look around you. Do you see any Blacks with good jobs, good housing on the television, radio or in the movies, in magazines or even politicians? They are only playing soccer or dancing the Samba. This could be a good place to start. Boycott Soccer and the Samba. That should get everybody's attention.
...
written by A Brazilian, December 03, 2007
Do you see any Blacks with good jobs, good housing on the television, radio or in the movies, in magazines or even politicians?


Yes, I do. And it seems to be proportional to the official census numbers.
The collectivist mind
written by A Brazilian, December 03, 2007
Most of the people who are affected by racism have bought into your belief.


What is the easiest explanation: people do think like this because it is like this or there's a very elaborated conspiracy? The first option is the only plausible explanation. People living in Brazil do think that race doesn't matter because it's not required for anything we do in our lives and the individual mertis comes always first. When someone do something good, it's not because he is a white or a black, but because of himself.

This is the extreme opposite of the US, where you just can't live a normal life without being labeled, segregated and conscripted to some sort of racial war. The first casualty of such war is the loss of individualism and individual merits, since everything you do, good or bad, is automatically attributed to the collective.

It even seems, by learning the American culture, that the only ones allowed to be individuals are the whites. All others are treated only as a collective, as if they were worthless individually. Your culture is a culture of producing broken individuals.
A Brazilian
written by CT, December 04, 2007
Pancho said it well above & i say it again, you don;t know what you're talking about, As i've said previously you are a prime example of the dilusional/denial state of mind that exists in brazil. It is minds like yours that perpetuate the myths all around you.
I find it sad, sad indeed.
...
written by CT, December 04, 2007
You shoul've been so lucky to be born inthis country, veven Mr. Pancho if he hs travelled the world would know that as i've said b4, even with our faults, people of all colors benefit here in one way or another, hence look @ the #' of illegals that come from your country & others. THIS IS THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY AND STILL IS. Anyone here can become anything they want, because of the opportunity, infrastruc ture in place, etc. WE have people of all colors in every as pect of life.
Like it it's realtiy.
So keep livinv in your lala land.
Language
written by Pancho, December 05, 2007
...
written by Another Brazilian, 2007-12-02 15:35:58
Oh yeah, Salvador is "much better" than Rio. You still keep your n****rs in the Senzalas up there. There is no such place as segregated as Bahia.

Easy on the "N" word there bro.
...
written by A Brazilian, December 06, 2007
THIS IS THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY AND STILL IS


Fences on the borders and a devaluing dollar, which is making many Brazilians that immigrated there to go back home. No...
...
written by CT, December 06, 2007
"Fences on the borders and a devaluing dollar, which is making many Brazilians that immigrated there to go back home. No"

if no one wanted to come here the fences wouldn't be necessary, would they?
plenty of your country men are also caught by/near the fences, hidden in cars, under seats, etc.
and the one's htat you claim are coming back are the ones that get caught by immigration, or they're too lazy to work like real men.
why don't you check the lines outside the american embassy & let me know when they go down.
your wish for us to go down & you go up will never happen, keep waiting, hope lula comes us with a good retirementplan for you.
...
written by CT, December 06, 2007
On the other hand, i & alot of people here wish they would all leave, i'm sure not too many people would miss them.
after all they an go back to the great life that brazil afforded them before, a life of not finding a decent job, a decent age, without fear of walking the streets, full of crime, burglaries, thefts, rape's, or living with mom & dad is always the best.
And just turn a blind eye to everything around you & imagine that it's all great.
KOLINDA VOLTE PRA ESCOLA
written by Amante da Gramatica, December 08, 2007
Nao aguento Brasileiros escrevendo dessa maneira, matando nossa lingua. Um absurdo essa "moda". Tenham vergonha, escrevam corretamente!
A Brazilian
written by Another Brazilian, December 08, 2007
"Indeed Brazil is the most advanced country in terms of race in the world, there's no doubt about it."

Hahahahahaha. Funny. Very funny.
...
written by Another Brazilian, December 08, 2007
I think this talk about race is so stupid. All skin color is, is natural adaptation, a product of evolution, as humans moved around the world. If you see a science show on PBS you will know this: we were all descendants of the black race because the first humans were black. Why all this fear of skin pigmentation?? All it is is more carotenoids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...d of it.)

That is ALL is is! It's so idiotic to keep hearing this crap. It's not a culture that teaches racism. It's parents, generation after generation, keeping it alive. I laugh at Brazilians saying they are white. There's no such thing, really. Every true Brazilian has been mixed and remixed. As guess what? In the US there's also racism amongst that blacks: lighter blacks look down upon darker blacks. There's racism amongst the white folks too, based on class and income. So you see, this is just too dumb!

There is racism everywhere and always will be. But that's just because humans make very little use of their brain. We are too stupid to understand that skin color really does not matter one bit. It's about what's inside. We,however, prefer to live on the surface. Facing the fact that we are all equals would signify we need to allow others to be different, and we'd have to be more humble and accepting of everyone. That's too hard, so we categorize everything. Its a CHOICE.

This talk of country too, nationality - another stupidity. It only separates us. In the end, we are all humans, all have the same feelings, desires, needs. And time goes so fast while we are dumb enough to waste it in empty arguments. What we all need is a bigger vision of ourselves and this poor planet. We need to stop arguing, fighting, defending governments. While we are down here saying mine is better than yours, both governments are screwing us all. The American Dream is just that. With the politicians playing bitches for Big Corp, you and I are just hamsters on wheels for them. Work hard, eat and breathe poison, buy plastic s**t you don't need because it makes you feel better momentarily, make them richer so they can control more of your life, all the while making you think you are really getting some place, when all you do is to spin (you hamster you).

Wake up, Eartlings! Smell the espresso! Live consciously, get along with others, stop being so judgmental and get a life. Live and let live and try to be happy dancing to the beat of your own drum. Screw superficial differences. These stupidities are exactly why we are still having wars in the world, despite so many generations.

Oh, and stop breeding. The world's full already. We have ran out of space.
Another Brazilian
written by A Brazilian, December 08, 2007
Unfortunately your rant doesn't meet the facts. The concept of race evolved differently on different countries and that's easy to observe through History. Just study a little. No, it's not the same.
"No racism in Brazil"
written by Thaddeus Blanchette, December 09, 2007
There is a small, but vocal minority that also believes that the Earth is flat. One will find cranks like C.Ch and a Brazilian everywhere.

Nevertheless, recent polls by Veja magazine and the Ministry of Justice indicate that 87% of Brazilians believe their country has a problem with racism.
N word
written by american black.., December 10, 2007
using that "N" word would get your ass popped in america and probably certain
areas of brasil.....thats called racism son!!
...
written by A Brazilian, December 10, 2007
Nevertheless, recent polls by Veja magazine and the Ministry of Justice indicate that 87% of Brazilians believe their country has a problem with racism.


That's ignoring the reality of Brazil. Brazilians will just assume Brazil has all kinds of problems, even it doesn't have it, for being politically correct.
Politically correct?
written by Thaddeus Blanchette, December 10, 2007
What the hell does that mean? Do you have a definition for it or is it just a convenient buzz-word for you to drop into a conversation whenever you feel outnumbered by majority opinion, A. Brazilian?

Nice to note however that you do admit, if in a round about way, that you are in the minortity when you say "Brazil isn't racist" and that you are well aware of this fact.
Thaddeus, try again...
written by A Brazilian, December 10, 2007
We are not a minority, most people are against policies like quotas and other institutionalized racist practices. The marches that occurred recently in Sao Paulo were done by very few people (a few thousands in a city with more than 10 million inhabitants), and most part of those were associated with black racist organizations. The detabe forums on the internet are either empty or have a lot of messages speaking up against racist policies, especially the ones blacks wish to implement in Brazil.

If 85% really thought that the solution were to go the anglo-saxon way, then we would see a multitude on the streets clamoring for racist laws such as quotas. Please explain why if 85% is in favor of it we are still even discussing it? Haha. Shouldn't it have been defined a long time ago? Even the segregational policies this government wish to implement are under fire! Either from individuals or from the justice that considers it to be unconstitutional.

http://conjur.estadao.com.br/static/text/61902,1

You don't know how to interpret the data, that's all. Asking a very vague question such as if "there's racism" doesn't tell if the person is only saying what he thinks you want to hear, it doesn't tell if he is against or not racist policies, it doesn't tell if he agrees or not with the "anglicanization" of the Brazilian culture by infecting it with your racial obsession, and so on.
...
written by Thaddeus Blanchette, December 10, 2007
There's racism and racism, A. I, too, am against quotas. I am not against affirmative action. And by no means does being against quotas mean you think you live in a racial democracy where there is no racism. Why you would equate the two positions is completely beyond me as there is no logical reason why one can be against quotas and still believe that Brazil has a problem with racism. I, for one, simply don't see quotas resolving the questions that need to be resolved.

Nor does believing that Brazil is racist means that one needs must believe in an "anglo-saxon way". In fact, what the hell are you talking about when you say "anglo-saxon way"? The racial systems of England's colonies are by no means identical or even equivalent and neither are those of Portugal's colonies. Nor can the U.S. - whose white population is massively NON anglo-saxon and has been so since the mid 19th century - can qualify as an "Anglo-Saxon nation". Seems to me you're just parroting some obsolete19th century ethnic terms without, once again, having the slightest idea of what they mean.
...
written by Thaddeus Blanchette, December 10, 2007
can = can't in previous post. pissed you can't edit these things.
Thaddeus
written by A Brazilian, December 10, 2007
By "anglo-saxon" culture I mean certain aspects of the cultures of English speaking countries that include an obsession with racial denomination and segregation. As an example I give England and the early eugenics movement, started by Francis Galton. In the US I cite Madison Grant and how eugenics influenced many of the policies there.

In an anglo-saxon culture race is strict and absolute and, even if people aren't aware, it has its roots in the scientific racism of the XIX century. There's no logical reason to accept only binary denominations such as black/white like it is in the US for example, and one of the main goals of the racist movement in Brazil is to abolish the inbetween denominations. This is what I mean by "anglicanization".

This is not related to genes, but culture. Your anglo-saxon mentality put genes first because you are conditioned to think in terms of "ethnicities" and not in terms of people.
...
written by David Mendoza, December 11, 2007
In an anglo-saxon culture race is strict and absolute and, even if people aren't aware


Including Winston Churchill who described the British a "mongrel race"....
...
written by Thaddeus Blanchette, December 11, 2007
By "anglo-saxon" culture I mean certain aspects of the cultures of English speaking countries that include an obsession with racial denomination and segregation


Then you're not using the term appropriately at all. Anglo-Saxon properly describes an ethnic group from the central-east of England. While this group did play an important role in the intitial colonozation of the U.S., they were rapidly overwhelmed by other ethnic groups. And they were hardly present in other British colonies - such as, say, Australia and Canada - which were dominated from the get-go by people from the Celtic fringe of the British islands.

So to begin with, you're not even using a key term of your analysis correctly. You don't even seem to know what it means. A very bad sign for a (wo)man who is trying to make a decent comparison between Brazil's racial history and those of the English-speaking world, as it denotes deep and abiding ignorance regarding the topic under discussion.

More disturbing is the fact that you're apparently as ignorant about English-speaking countries' realities of race as the gringos you criticize are regarding Brazil's. There is no one specific "aspect" regarding this question which one can find in all - or even most - English-speaking countries. At given times and in different places, English colonists have created both segregationist and assimilationist systems with regards to race and have preached miscegenation, segregation and everything else you can imagine. Only someone who was incredibly ignorant of the way race has been built in the English-speaking world would believe that there was one single way - or even a hegemonic theme - in "anglo-saxon" [sic] race relations.

Now, I realize that among those Brazilians who don't study the history of the British Empire and its associated colonies and settlements, it's quite common to believe in what Brazilian historical essayists have said about these places over the past hundred years (generally without the slightest bit of research to back their suppositions up). But that's an odd position for someone who criticizes overly-simplistic foreign views of Brazil to take. What it seems, A, is that you are bitching that gringos don't know s**t about race in Brazil while your very comments betray the fact that you know vanishingly little about how race has worked in the English-speaking world.

So it seems a bit of a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Now, as for your assertion that Brazil has never been racist (and here you seem to be implying that "racism" needs must include formal laws of racial segregation in order to exist, which is another simple fallacy), that is quite easily disproven. At both the local and national level, Brazil has had SEVERAL laws which have discriminated against blacks. For example, for the better part of a century, blacks - even wealthy, professional U.S. blacks - were prohibited from imigrating to Brazil. Thousands of clubs and associations in the country had laws prohibiting black membership. And even in those cases were segregation was not de jure, it was certainly de fato. Brazilian blacks have not simply "imagined" that have been discriminated against, A, and only an exceptionally ideologically blind person would even attempt to imply that have.

Now, whether or not the road to solving this problem is quotas and the enshrinement of racial identity as mandatory is an entirely different kettle of fish. But there's no doubt in the mind of any serious Brazilian historian or sociologist that Brazil has been and still is a deeply racist country. You need to stop reading amateur raciologists and essayists such as Kamel and take a look at what the actual HISTORIANS of your country are saying and have been saying for decades.

I find it odd, A, that you complain about the dominance of "anglo-saxon" views yet you yourself seem to be quite thoroughly colonized by them yourself. After all, your words seem to imply that the only "true" form of "racism" on the planet is the "anglo-saxon" variety and, given how Brazil does not have a racist system that is 100% identical to this, then Brazil, ipso facto, cannot be racist. Seems to me as if you're affirming, in a round about way, that England and the U.S. are the historical measuring stick by which we should judge the relevancy or validity of the Brazilian experience. An odd position for a self-proclaimed nationalist intellectual to be in, if you ask me... smilies/smiley.gif
...
written by Thaddeus Blanchette, December 11, 2007

In an anglo-saxon culture race is strict and absolute...

That is simply untrue.

You seem to take the U.S. Southern experience of racer over the last century as the yard-stick by which racial ideology in all British colonies, at all moments in history, must be measured. That's a simple and illogic fallacy. "Indian" race in the U.S. - to just name one of a dozen outstanding examples - was and is neither "strict" nor "absolute". It has historically been assimilationist and miscegenationist and people today talk of "degrees" of Native American ancestry and not whether one is simply "white" or "indian". Likewise, in British colonies such as Jamaica and the pre-Civil War Charleston, mulatos existed and are/were recognized as an intermediary group between white and black. Again, these are just a few of the MANY examples that exist in the historiography of this question. Your problem, A, is that you've watched too many American made-for-T.V. movies over the past years and you seem to think that this gives you an adequate view of what race relations are and have been like all over the English-speaking world. Again, this is an error that's as stupid as the one you accuse gringos of making re: Brazil.

With regards to scientific racism, it was VERY much in vogue in Brazil in the 19th century as well. Come to Rio and I'll show you our collection of old biometric equipment. And these theories were used to promote laws and practices here, just as they were in the U.S. I suggest you look up Roquette-Pinto's intervention in the debate re: Japanese immigration to Brazil in the 1920s and then come here and tell us about how Brazil "never used social Darwinistic and eugenicist notions of race in its laws".

For someone who criticizes ignorant americans lack of knowledge of Brazil, you're revealing yourself to be staggeringly ignorant of your own country's history, A.
I am starting to get tired of this bulls**t...
written by A Brazilian, December 11, 2007
Every single f**king thread is the same script. Some anglo-saxon moron will come and point the finger at Brazil. Then when confronted with the reality (the active participation of English, Canadians, Americans and other Europeans in eugenics and other racist movements, or segregationist laws, or the sick "racial struggle" mentality in the US) they say that everything is a "lie". f**k YOU!

Answer this question: Did Francis Galton, an English, never exist? Didn't the English discriminate against the Irish, considering them something like a "white negroid"? Didn't the Americans created a culture of strict segregation and prevented certain types of immigrants in order to keep the white "white"? What about that brother of Charles Darwin (I forgot his name) that promoted racism in England? What about all the scientific racism of the XIX century, in which Americans and English took a major part?

Look, I have studied this crap a lot. I know the history of eugenics, how it influenced policies all around the world and that the Nazis weren't the only people practicing it! Perhaps today you don't have such laws anymore, but you still find vestigial remains of this culture in popular beliefs. It's easy to find out traces of "Nordic theory" on this very site!

It's perfectly correct to refer to the US, England and other english speaking countries as "anglo-saxon" or "anglophone" or whatever like this, the same way we call the spanish speaking countries hispanophone or hispanic, despite of being composed by a huge variety of peoples that immigrated to those places (the US does that a lot, by the way), and portuguese speaking countries as lusophone. Don't run from the argument by twisting the meaning of the word! The only blind ignorant here is YOU.

As part of the racist dementia from black racists in Brazil we see an attempt to kill any in between denomination and transform it in something like the US. Why? I challenge you to point a single reason in order to support that! Today those groups even say that half of Brazil is black, because in the US they would be black (that's true, the only line of reason they have is "But in the US...", I actually participated in one detabe once and I asked the racist activist this, she just didn't have an answer and started stuttering...), although the official census numbers point to 7% black only.

You are just another idiot. Brazil is the most advanced country in terms of race of the entire world, and lots of people are against affirmative action or whatever action, otherwise we would have had it a very long time ago! Explain us that. Why if the "vast majority" is in favor of it we never had a black movement to begin with? Why didn't we have identity politics? Why didn't we ever such racist clowns?

It's not an entirely different "kettle of fish" (this term is very academic, isn't it?) when the same morons promoting racism are promoting segregationist laws and the anglo-saxon culture!

You have absolutely zero facts to back your claims up.
Anglo-saxon Thaddeus
written by A Brazilian, December 11, 2007
Just do us all a favor and keep your infectious racist culture where it belongs.
Truth hurts and bulls**t!
written by toucht, December 11, 2007
On reading some of A. Brazilian's posts, one thing that has to be recognised is that his comprehension and knowledge of the history of Eugenics is spot on. In addition, his understanding of pale-ism is also correct in that the English have always sought to differentiate themselves from the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, French despite their own mongrel status. Historically, the English have mixed happily with everyone who pissed in their backyard, from Vikings, Romans etc... However the most bizarre thing, is that a country with such a varied genetic pool can then seek to segregate themselves. Obviously, the US, Canada and Australia will follow their historical master's leads. There were pogroms against Jews and Italians in the US, greeks in Australia etc...because they did not fit to a specified code.

However, where he loses the plot is when he comes to studying his own country. He could be Gilberto Freyre's grandson within this regard. Affirmative action has been taking place for centuries in Brazil (for the elites), just under a different name. The Afro-Brazilian fight for self-determination has been taking place since the first slave ship landed. What most annoys the elite is that their calls for freedom and advancement can now be he heard globally, and are not confined to the lower hold of the ships.
toucht
written by A Brazilian, December 11, 2007
The Afro-Brazilian fight for self-determination...


Did you know that in Brazil people were always free to call themselves whatever they want? What bulls**t is this of self-determination!? THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN FREEDOM TO BE WHATEVER YOU WANT TO BE.

This forum is misinformation in the purest form. Such anglo-saxons ashamed of their past need to accuse others in order to look good for themselves. You were the biggest racists the world has ever seen, accept it. It's not really difficult to do better than you, it's actually very easy since you are the worst of all.
...
written by Pancho, December 12, 2007

Did you know that in Brazil people were always free to call themselves whatever they wan.

I can call my self a lamp post, but that doesn't make me one. I hope you guys get it together before the Brazilians of African decent WAKE UP. Because when they do, all hell will break loose. Soon they will get tired of having no political representation. Being 1-percent of college students, no-percent of actors, TV reporters, News paper reporters, models, doctors, teachers, lawyers, etc.



A. Brazilian, pleae calm down.
written by Thaddeus Blanchette, December 12, 2007
With a last name like "Blanchette", you gotta know I'm Amglo-Saxon, right? Blanchette is such a common Anglo-Saxon last name... smilies/tongue.gif

Acorda p'ra cuspir, A. Brazilian

Who has said that eugenics didn't exist, let alone Galton?

What IS being said - and if you were calmer you'd realize this - is that Scientific racism and eugenics were hardly "anglo-saxon" specialties. They were common throughout the western world INCLUDING Brazil. You've heard of Gobineau, I presume, just for starters?

Ironically enough, I just spent the afternoon going through Edgard Roquette-Pinto's files at the Academia Brasileira de Letras. R-P's work is FULL of talk about eugenics, as was that of his imediate superior Batista de Lacerd, the director of the Museu Nacional in the 1920s. One of the cheerfull little documents I read through this afternoon was a full-color report of a dissection RP and Lacerd did of a 50 year old Indian women for biometrical and eugenics purposes.

So please, A. Brazilian, bull me no more s**t about how eugneics never got off the ground in Brazil. If you can't be bothered to read about the history of your country and the official policies of "branqueamento" which the Republican government promulgated back in the late 19th and early 20th century, then for heaven's sake, why should anyone believe that your views are anything more than a poorly-wrapped bundle of prejudice?

Fact: eugenics and scientific racism were VERY much alive in Brazil back in the day.

Fact: Brazil promulgated many laws - both local and national - which promoted racial segregation.

Fact: not all British colonies were the same with regards to race and their way of dealing with it.

Fact: there simply ISN'T an "Anglo-Saxon" and "Lusitanian" view of race. Both empires used segregation and assimilation, racial mixing and the politics of so-called "blood purity" at various places and times.

And finally...

Fact: no one here, as far as I can see, denies that the English and Americans used eugenics and scientific racism in the late 19th and early 20th century. What is being said - and this should be BLINDINGLY obvious - is that the French, Germans, Spanish, Portugese AND BRAZILIANS (among many other nations) did AS WELL. So based on what, might I ask, can you call eugenics an "anglo-american" ideology, other than your own ignorance and prejudices?
Ironically enough...
written by Adriana A., December 13, 2007
I just wanted to point it out the article I saw both on Veja and Isto E ( the most read magazines in Brasil).

On Veja he was on the cover ( forgot the month), and on Isto E, He was considered to be one of the five Brasilians of the year 2007. One little detail, the votes he got were from the Isto E readers, Brasilians all over the country.

His name is Joaquim Barbosa. He is the Minister of the Brasil Supreme Federal Court. He was born very poor, has eight siblings. He is Black ( in the Isto E cover picture he appears in the middle) and he is the one who is going to decide if the quotas system is constitutional or not. He is extremely intelligent and just. In the article he says that his main goal is to bridge the gap between the justice system and the population, and he does not mention any group in particular.

My impression of him while reading the article is that he sees himself as a Human Being first. I don't know but I have a feeling that he could very well have a chance for the presidential election in 2010, my father told me that a lot of people are talking really good about him now in Brasil. Lula likes him. I wouldn't be surprised, Brazilians are very unpredictable; we elected Lula didn't we, a poor northeastern emigrant.
Sorry the article is in Portuguese. Here is the link:

http://www.terra.com.br/istoe/
Here is an English article about him
written by Adriana A., December 13, 2007
Observations About Brazil
written by Carlo, December 13, 2007
I visited Brazil in 1994, and found the racial environment as I had imagined. The Whites were the "haves" and the Blacks who looked like me were the "have-nots." Concerning racism, or the lack of racism, in Brasil: It is understood that the Anglo-Saxons deem anyone with x% of so-called Negro blood is determined to be Black, whereas the Spanish (and I believe the Portugese as well) determine that anyone with x% of White blood is considered to be White. To me, those classifications are somewhat nonsensical and not based in scientific fact, but I won't go into that here.

Since that was our first trip, we stayed primarily in Rio, and I did notice that in the majority of the restaurants along the beach, the waiters were White, or very light-skinned mullatoes, and the kitchen help and busboys were Black. As were the desk clerks at the hotel, White, and the porters, maids, doormen were Black. So, I felt right at home in an environment that reminded me of the USA until the mid 20th century. No matter how it is couched in sociological double-speak, the fact remains that Brasil is indeed racist. The darker-skinned people do not have the same opportunity as their White or near-White cousins. And, that seems to be the case the world over.

After we were there a few days, we ventured into the city proper and I found the people to be very warm and friendly despite our language differences. I'm glad I speak a smattering of Spanish as that benefited me greatly. Speaking of language; it's curious to me the following: I live in Newark, NJ with a large Portugese population and a sizable Brasilian populaton as well. One day my Portugese cab driver and I were talking and the subject of languages came up. Specifically: Portugese spoken in Portugal and Brasilian Portugese. Well, the driver argued with me and told me that Brasilian Portugese is not "real" Portugese, to which we had further discussion. I could tell by his demeanor and subtle comments that he was not at all fond of Brasil or Brasilians. I wondered, was this man a racist, or not?

Carlo
written by João da Silva, December 13, 2007
I could tell by his demeanor and subtle comments that he was not at all fond of Brasil or Brasilians. I wondered, was this man a racist, or not?


Your Portuguese cab driver was certainly a racist. Uneducated and probably brought up under the ruthless dictatorship of Salazar. A real white trash in Portugal and you can find such people even in your country. The worst about such "white Trash" in Portugal is that they even discriminate the "White" Brazilians who are educated. I don't know if you are aware that our dentists were and are still having problems in practicing their profession in Portugal.

BTW, was that cab driver able to speak passable English?

In my opinion, Portugal , Spain and Italy suffered too much under the influence of fascist dictators like Salazar,Franco and Mussolini respectively. Many from these countries emigrated to Brazil that received them with open arms. Nevertheless, these people like to criticize Brasil and the Brasilians, but they love to steal our wealth and take it back to Europe.

However, I am glad that you were treated prim and proper by the Brasilians during your visit to our country in 1994. Hope you will come again.
Colonialism at It's Best (or Worst)
written by Carlo, December 14, 2007
Joao,

You're right on about everything. The cab driver did speak very good, but accented English. As an afterthought, I wonder what he says about us American Blacks.

I have heard of the dentists' and other professionals problems in Portugal, and it seems as though I remember speaking with someone who was having a "racial dilemma" in Portugal. It seems as though in many former colonialist countries in Europe they are having problems with their immigrants from the former colonies; the UK, France, Belgium, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and even though the US is not European or a colonizer per se, you know the difficulties we're having.

Last year I took a course toward my Masters in Criminal Justice, and the immigration situation came up in the class. The class was on-line with about 30 students, the majority were White I'm sure. Well, when I voiced my opinions about so-called "illegal" immigrants and the European colonizers, well, the class certainly gave me a sound whipping. Basically, I told them they want to keep America "White for the Whites" and the European countries are getting their just desserts after years of plundering and raping foreign lands. My thing was also big corporations sucking the world dry with their greed. So I guess it got to be too much, because even the professor at one point told me that "those people who people who don't like this country (America) should perhaps move elsewhere in the world." Joao, it's truly sad that these ideas of innate superiority are so ingrained.

Anyway, I did enjoy Brasil, and am looking to go there in '08. everytime t gets cold here, the esire is even stronger for Brasil.

Take care.
The anglo-saxon Thaddeus
written by A Brazilian, December 14, 2007
Spanish America has lots of immigrants either from Spain, Italy, Germany, China, etc and still in the US they are all called "Hispanic". Why are you whining about not being an Anglo-Saxon? Unless you have been born in a non-English speaking country, you are an Anglo-saxon. An American Black is an Anglo-saxon, because he thinks, sees, talks, and was educated with anglo-saxon values. That's why American Blacks are so obsessed with race, they are as obsessed as they were taught to be.

Yes, eugenics was worldwide, but the supreme form of bulls**t is anglo-saxons denying their importance in such a movement, either from popular support or scientific production. You played a major role in it. The level of segregation developed in English-speaking countries bordered the fanaticism, and this has greatly affected their culture until today. So much that even today the "anglo-saxons" (even the black ones) can't see people as people, they only see colors and races. A New York times article recently when mentioning the political situation of Latin America said that the discontentement brought the opportunity for people of "darker skin" to raise to power (referring to the uneducated proto-socialist-dictators Evil Morales and Hugo Chavez) WTF! You are f**king sick! And do you still want to give us lessons about "racism"? Hahahahahahahaha.

Let's see Brazil. I don't buy this "branquamento" bulls**t because under the light of the XIX century racial theories it would mean the extermination of the white. Why, in the name of God, if they were so racist would they do the exact thing that would mean the end of the one race they were trying to defend? This doesn't even make sense. In the "scientific racism" branqueamento is racial suicide. For what I could read they were just trying to adapt the Brazilian reality to the scientific beliefs of the time, because by the scientific racism canons Brazil was a country of degenerate mongrels and blacks.

There's a fundamental difference between Brazil's approach to the problem during that period and the rest of world, although Brazil, as a part of the same world, wasn't immune to it. Don't even try to compare it with South Africa, the US or Europe.

Culturally the situation today only reflects the decisions made back then. The variety of definitions for colors in Brazil is a healthy sign that we are on the right path and evidence that we are light-years ahead of you. The non-importance of race in everyday's life gives a unique opportunity of seeing people for what they are.
...
written by A Brazilian, December 14, 2007
can you call eugenics an "anglo-american" ideology, other than your own ignorance and prejudices?


Yes, the very racial segregation issue was transformed into some sort of citizen's duty in those countries. See "The Passing of the Great Race" (or something like that) from Madison Grant. Perhaps that work isn't very scientific even by the standards of the past, but it gives a glimpse of the popular beliefs back then and some of those beliefs still exist today.

Comparing Brazil to the US in these matters is just a silly attempt of a few bigots that can't live with the fact that Brazil actually do things right. It even seems that you need to discredit Brazil in order to feel better yourselves.
Adriana A.
written by Pancho, December 14, 2007


I just wanted to point it out the article I saw both on Veja and Isto E ( the most read magazines in Brasil)


Thanks for the links. Do you know when he'll be back to L.A? I live 30 minutes from UCLA. It would be such a pleasure to meet him.
...
written by Zeka, December 14, 2007
The more this cultural dialectic out of the marxist centers in usa come into brasil the more of the troubles will be seen all in the last periods of the time the come from the usa these racial political constrictions of now the affirmative action which is a lie and so on therefore you bring an injury to the land and to the peoples of the country and are not a helpful.
Joao Da Silva
written by CT, December 14, 2007
"In my opinion, Portugal , Spain and Italy suffered too much under the influence of fascist dictators like Salazar,Franco and Mussolini respectively. Many from these countries emigrated to Brazil that received them with open arms. Nevertheless, these people like to criticize Brasil and the Brasilians, but they love to steal our wealth and take it back to Europe."

Why is it that when you & other brazilians speak of the colonizers among others, you only talk about the stolen wealth, what stolen wealth? when did they steal anything from you? Other than what your own government has stolen from all of you for the last 185 years.
I don't believe they steal anymore that yourselves, they work & make a living, save theri money, they're not waiting for handouts.
After all your a produc t of them, i guess you never stole anything?
Even the rest of latin america has grown up from that, the probleem with brazil is their still stuck on themselves.
Why don't you change your name.

joao da silva
written by CT, December 14, 2007
"Your Portuguese cab driver was certainly a racist. Uneducated and probably brought up under the ruthless dictatorship of Salazar. A real white trash in Portugal and you can find such people even in your country. The worst about such "white Trash" in Portugal is that they even discriminate the "White" Brazilians who are educated. I don't know if you are aware that our dentists were and are still having problems in practicing their profession in Portugal."

I'm sure that he is no more racist than all of you are against anyone that is different of you or has something better than you, in typical brazilian fashion, it's never ok for others to criticize you, but ok for you to do so.
How dare anyone say anything against brazuca's.
I have been to brazil & i saw how disrespectful,uneducated & RUDE most of you all especially towards the Portuguese, whether tourists or not. Since most of you seem to live under the premise that you just are so cureous, polite, etc. I don't see where & how.
The way i was raised, i respect & treat everyone with respect & politeness unless they do the contrary to me. but i guess that is not taught by brazilian parents. Because it is very prevalent. to the point of being an obsession.
You talk about trash, no one is more trash & filth than most of you, and believe me i saw plenty of it while there. So why don't you & the rest of your filth clean up your act.
After all everyone there likes to say how they are italian & german,e tc. As if it's great to want to be part of tee cold blood criminals of the 20th century, who stole everything from everyone they could get their hands on or destroy for that matter. I laughed so loud, especially when people don't even realize their latin names speak for themselves & when called to task, they don't know that to say. Is that the educated people you talk about, it must be the great educational system that teaches them that; because after all if anyone else had colonized the country, they wouldn't be poor, stupid or ignorant, brazilians would all be rich, educated, etc. just like the usa, cananda, australia, suriname, the caribbean.
I don't know of wheer shagrila is or exists, maybe it would be brazil.
Carlo
written by CT, December 14, 2007
i am very familiar with the NJ area you talked about above, but bear in mind the neighborhood has changed for the worst since the brazilians came in, brazuca's are now the majority.
It seems to me that you're not aware of the way brazuca's speak of the portuguese and others, assk anyone who has close contact with them & know them for what they truly are & the disdain people have for them.
the way they go around getting over people, cheating, whoring ,etc.
You should know the stories of not paying rent, crime, etc.
At least whereever the portuguese go, they are respected, hard working people who get ahead, that's why they resent them.
they can't be them, be like them, so bring them down.
After all it's the same concept as to african/caribbean blacks when compared to the us balcks, totally different mindset.

And also all you have to do is rad all the articles, comments, etc. and you should get a clearer picture of what those people are, not what you think i bet.
CT, the trash
written by A Brazilian, December 15, 2007
First of all, f**k YOU! I work and, most important of all, think a lot, and I know some Americans but none so obnoxious and hateful such as yourself, thank God. The Brazilians that go to live in the US cleaning toilets are exactly what they do, s**t. They would be cleaning toilets in Brazil if they were here, but they chose to do that in dollars and you employ them!

This bulls**t about Brazilians are just that, bulls**t from yet another bigot who wastes his own time and ours with crap. Who cares about what you think? Where is your government to fix the immigration problem? What you are whining about is the sheer demonstration of incompetence from the authorities and conivence of your own countrymen! You need those toilet cleaners, so don't whine about it. Accept it or kick them out, make up your mind.

Portuguese are bigots, just like the rest of Europe, and always were, but who cares? As long as they stay in the s**tty country of theirs we can get along just fine. There's absolutely nothing they "have" that we could ever want. I would say that's quite the opposite, since many NGO retards, especially Europeans, seems to have a special interest in Brazil.

Why do every piece of trash around the world feel entitled to point the finger at Brazil for anything? I am so f**king tired of outsmarting these asses. Any fastfood employee feels important enough to say a lot of crap about what they don't know. Save your hate for yourself. Consume yourself in hate if you will. Nothing will change the wretched rest of human being that you are!
What would be of Anglo-saxons...
written by A Brazilian, December 15, 2007
As if it's great to want to be part of tee cold blood criminals of the 20th century,


... If it weren't by the Germans? You sound like an angry woman that was cheated by the husband. Every f**king time those retards just have to use the Germans as an example of evil. I will tell you this about Germans, they never tried to teach me "tolerance", "multicultural society" or anything like that. Everyone I knew were well aware of history and didn't pretend to be a model for anything or to have some higher moral.

Related to the topic of racism it is a very tough competition. We have Anglo-saxons, Germans and fascists, and also South Africa competing to see who was the most criminal of all times. I wouldn't be so quick to accuse them of anything when your own country practiced segregation by law until the 60s and still have it "unofficially" until today in the form of "ethnicity recognition". That's what it is. Forcing people to recognize "who they are" is just a way of a drawing a clear line between peoples and say "this is where I am, and this is where you will stay". If we can learn something with the US is how to change in order to keep everything the same.

After all you had no choice in ending segregation. The position of leader after of WWII gave you no option otherwise you would have no moral to "teach" Europe about democracy and equality. I can imagine how it was to see someone that allegedly fought for freedom to practice many of the horrors that the Nazis would support at home, hipocrisy fits the US perfe