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Brazil's Politicians Set to Cash in on Oil and Gas Discoveries PDF Print E-mail
Written by John Fitzpatrick   
Tuesday, 29 January 2008 14:00

Brazilian President, Lula, smears hand with oil at Petrobras As if Brazil was not blessed with a bounty of natural resources it seems that God has decided to help his favorite nation once again by unveiling his latest gifts - massive reserves of oil and gas. The state-owned oil company Petrobras announced on January 21 that it had discovered huge offshore gas reserves which could be as large as the oil resources it discovered in November at the nearby Tupi field, which are estimated at five to eight billion barrels.

This means that Brazil is on its way to becoming one of the world's leading oil and gas producers. Brazil is already self-reliant in oil and when the natural gas is flowing in 2014 it will no longer depend on Bolivia. Ironically, this good news comes amidst fears of energy rationing this year as the country's current power resources cope to meet with the rising demand from a growing economy.

This latest announcement is excellent news for Brazil and shows once again how this country could become one of the most prosperous countries in the world if it could free itself from the shackles which are holding it back. These shortcomings include needless poverty, an inefficient educational system, endemic corruption, a tolerance for law-breaking and an ungainly political system.

Brazilians are an optimistic people and they have every reason to be so. Just think of some of the benefits Brazil enjoys: it is one of the largest countries in the world yet has a relatively low population density; it has no areas which are uninhabitable for reasons of geography or climate; it has vast areas which have not been exploited; it has practically every agricultural and mineral resource you can imagine; it has a culture which is open to change and is tolerant of diversity.

Its farmers grow everything from rice to tea and export beef and poultry all over the world. Its mines produce riches from commodities like iron ore to more valuable products like gold and nickel. It has over 7,000 kilometers of coastline and fishing resources which have barely been tapped.

It has an entrepreneurial class, particularly in the south and southeast, as dynamic as anywhere in the US or Asia. Its bigger companies, like Vale, Petrobras, Gerdau and Votorantim have become multinationals with a growing presence abroad. It has no problems with minorities and no separatist movements. Its people have a genuine shared patriotism regardless of their racial or ethnic origin.             

Yet despite this, Brazil is still far from realizing its potential. One of the main reasons for this is the political system. Although the system is based on that of the United States, with a strong president who is held in check by a two-chamber Congress, Brazil has not followed the same path as the US. The fact that Brazil has only been a true democracy for just over 20 years following two decades of military rule highlights this difference.

The disappointment associated with the return to civilian rule was symbolized in the death of the first "democratically-elected" president, Tancredo Neves, in 1985 before he could take office.

Another blow was the promulgation of the 1988 Constitution which was an unwieldy wish list of impossible goals - interest rate may not be higher than 12%, for example - and pork barrel benefits to vested groups. The Constitution requires a three-fifths majority of both houses of Congress which makes reform an extremely slow process. The House of Representatives has 513 members which shows how difficult a task it is to alter the Constitution.

It is only when the political establishment wants to look after its own interests that changes are made quickly e.g. when incumbent presidents and state governors were allowed to stand for re-election in 1998. This was pushed through to allow President Fernando Henrique Cardoso to stand again.

The main handicap in making real change lies in the weakness of the party system. Brazil has around 30 registered parties of which 20 are represented in the House of Representatives at the time of writing. Since only a handful of parties are genuinely national, such as Lula's PT, Cardoso's PSDB and the PMDB - it is practically impossible for the government to have a majority in Congress.

This leads to awkward coalitions in which some parties need to be given sweeteners or even bribes, as was the case in the "mensalão affair" uncovered in 2005, to support the government.

We are seeing a good example of the weakness of this system in the recent appointment of a new energy and mines minister, Edison Lobão. Although the country is facing an energy crisis, Lobão has absolutely no qualifications for the job. The only reason he got it was because he is a member of the PMDB which is one of Lula's "allies".

It has insisted on his appointment so it can gain the patronage associated with controlling a ministry. This is what leads, in turn, to the diversion of state resources and funds to parties and individuals and contributes to the corruption which is the rule rather than the exception.

The announcement of the new oil and gas finds is excellent news for this type of politician since Petrobras is the jewel in the crown and the parties scramble to get their hands on it. A squabble is going on at the moment between the PT and the PMDB over who should be the international director of Petrobras.

Why politicians should be involved in deciding who runs a major division of the world's sixth-largest oil company may be a mystery to foreign readers but it is part of daily politics here. State-run enterprises like the Post Office and the electricity utilities are routinely carved up among the political parties.

Petrobras is the biggest company in Latin America and has been at the center of politics since it was founded just over 50 years ago by dictator Getulio Vargas. When Brazil became self-reliant in 2006 Lula flew out to the rig where the oil was being pumped up and smeared his hands in it as Vargas had done with the first oil half a century earlier.

When the privatization process came to Brazil in the mid-90s these parties ensured that Petrobras remained firmly in state hands. Looking ahead, this means that while the oil and gas finds will boost the economy, unless changes are made to the political system, they will also help swell the coffers of discredited parties and corrupt individuals.

John Fitzpatrick is a Scottish writer and consultant with long experience of Brazil. He is based in São Paulo and runs his own company Celtic Comunicações. This article originally appeared on his site www.brazilpoliticalcomment.com.br. He can be contacted at This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

© John Fitzpatrick 2008

Comments (101)Add Comment
...
written by amodao1985, January 30, 2008
i have a group project to do for schooling. anyway we have to find a city in brazil that their government will let us open a popcorn business in...do you know any??
...
written by João da Silva, January 30, 2008
We are seeing a good example of the weakness of this system in the recent appointment of a new energy and mines minister, Edison Lobão. Although the country is facing an energy crisis, Lobão has absolutely no qualifications for the job.


No worries. Sen.Edison will receive on the job training and within a couple of months will become an expert in Energy,Mining , Finance, etc; and apply his newly acquired knowledge to solve the present and future crisis. A man with Future Vision and his admirers wish him all the best.
XOM
written by max power, January 31, 2008
Petrobras should merge with Exxonmobil
"Petrobras should merge with Exxonmobil "
written by ch.c., February 01, 2008
And Exxon will be controlled by Brazilian government !
Not a good idea....in my view !

Just look at Cia Vale wishing to take over Xstrata. The Brazilian Government is strongly against that idea because it will reduce investments and jobs growth in Brazil.

Simple proof that Brazil is certainly NOT for globalization.... when brazilians companies wants tgo invest outside the country.....but pro-globalization when foreigners invest in Brazil....only if they dont take control of a Brazilian company.

More Filthy and one way thinking....there is not !
40 BILLION....
written by bo, February 01, 2008
PROFIT!!! Exxonmobile reports today. Petrobras has a long way to go to catch up to those guys. No wonder they're selling gasoline for 6 dollars a gallon here in Brazil. smilies/wink.gif
João
written by The Guest, February 02, 2008
"Brazilians are an optimistic people ....."

"Its farmers grow everything....."

"It has an entrepreneurial class,...."

Those three paragraphs in the article above from which I high lighted the leading statements was my main attraction to Brazil so many years ago. Brazil needs to find itself again.
The Guest
written by João da Silva, February 02, 2008
"Brazilians are an optimistic people ....."

"Its farmers grow everything....."

"It has an entrepreneurial class,...."


It used to be true.But now we are rudderless as well as leaderless. The educated middle class is voiceless .Currently the "political entrepreneurs" are running the country! That is the reason why there are so many ministries.

I do not think that the is a possibility of Petrobras being privatized or merging with any foreign oil company. On the other hand, the next institutions might be the two federal banks (BB & CEF).
Bo-s**tter Bo-bao
written by baba, February 02, 2008
First of all the 40 bi profit has nothing to do with brazil. This kind of profit makes the america hard working people very sick and wondering how come the governmemt is not doing anything about it when the average heating oil has going up 130% withing the past 2 years. That is right middle and low income americans are paying 3,000 dollars this winter to heat a small 1600 SF. home, not counting electric bills of $ 570 dollars monthly. So if this is good news to you Bo because of the fact that you live in a country with a strong growing economy... so be it. Do me a favor would you? Turn the lights inside your assss on when you start to brag about the US and get your head out of it and smell the coffee once in a while.
Ohh yeah one other thing, as far as I 've been reading Petrobraz invest heavly into the country with all kinds of money and programs. Do you see any American oil company doing any of that?
João
written by The Guest, February 02, 2008
"I do not think that the is a possibility of Petrobras being privatized or merging with any foreign oil company. On the other hand, the next institutions might be the two federal banks (BB & CEF). "

I hope there is no possibility of privatization or merger for all three instutions also; however, the status quote with regards to management and politics cannot continue either.
...
written by Gringo, February 02, 2008
Ohh yeah one other thing, as far as I 've been reading Petrobraz invest heavly into the country with all kinds of money and programs. Do you see any American oil company doing any of that?


Sure they do! Exxon Mobile funds rightwing think tanks designed solely to tell lay folk that science is bunk, the world is perfectly fine, climate change is a hoax and that the more carbon in the atmosphere (read: please burn more of our fuels) the more you can grow crops in the Arctic. Who says that Exxon and other oil companies don’t do their part for the betterment of America?smilies/cry.gif

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/exxon-secrets
The Guest
written by João da Silva, February 02, 2008
Gringo is an interesting blogger and a good friend of mine. Do you have anything to say about his comments? I thought he was leading an expedition to the Antarctic, because he has not been expressing his opinion for the past couple of weeks. May be, he did not want to interfere in the domestic affairs of Brasil smilies/wink.gif
Gringo
written by baba, February 02, 2008
Point well taken Gringo. You are absolutely right, this is the only thing the american oil companies do for America. give-me give-me give-me ...that all they know!
The Guest/Gringo
written by João da Silva, February 03, 2008
I hope there is no possibility of privatization or merger for all three instutions also; however, the status quote with regards to management and politics cannot continue either.


This is an interesting topic. I hope Ricardo Amaral is reading our comments. He mentioned in one of his comments that even the Zoo in B.Aires was privatized!

BTW, I hope you guys read the article "Richest Man in Africa wants a piece of Brazil". He tried to buy Brasil Telecom and failed! The question is do we really want foreign investment?
Nonsense
written by GTY, February 03, 2008
First, lets set the record straight on Exon Mobile, as a private company with a product to sell and they have a right to make as much profit as they can, all large oil companies including foreign Shell and BP had record 4th quarter profits and they have a legal and moral responsibility to do so for their stockholders. Gas is over $3.00 a gallon and there is no significant drop in driving or traveling in the US, although there seems to be a drop in big cars and SUV's. Until there is a market in renewable energy, oil companies will continue to make profits...good for them. I am sure you socailists on this site are looking forward to Clinton "confiscating" these profits and then letting the government invest them, be careful what you wish for. By the way, Exxon pays 2 dollars in taxes for every dollar of profit it makes, you morons should do the math.

Now for Brazil, Joao should be more optimistic, Brazil is a young democracy and I beleive they are on the verge of doing something really special, I pray that the don't sqander this opportunity as they have so many times before, their economy is red hot and countries are pouring investment dollars in. Lula, to everyones surprise has been very pro-market, resisting the Chavez path and should be commended. But lets hope the next group of Brazilian leaders are much more expereinced at running an economy and make the necessary changes to fuel continued growth, like tax cuts for the middle class and lower interest rates, these two thing would fuel incredable growth in the economic health of the middle class, which would ultimatly and rapidly reduce poverty, lets hope they don't blow it again.
GTY
written by Gringo, February 03, 2008
I am sure you socailists on this site are looking forward to Clinton "confiscating" these profits and then letting the government invest them, be careful what you wish for. By the way, Exxon pays 2 dollars in taxes for every dollar of profit it makes, you morons should do the math.


Great, another rightwing provocateur with comprehension problems and SBS (severe babbling syndrome). Well GTY before you leap into another conspiracy theory about socialists and the downfall of civilization they so secretly covet you may wish to give your head a shake and read what it is people (and the Greenpeace link) are actually giving Exxon s**t for.

No one here is questioning making a profit, heck I do alright myself, however I do find it down right morally objectionable for companies to secretly fund covert think tanks and fake science groups with the sole purpose to obfuscate an already complicated science and use these groups for political subterfuge. There has been a war waged on science from both the corporate end and the religious end in the US for some time, with a spill over into the rest of the planet, and idiots like yourself parrot the talking points these bankrolled spin masters create. FUNDING to the tune of 23 million dollars from EXXON MOBILE. Surprise surprise.

Earning a buck or a billion is NOT the question, however profiting while lying to and cheating those you are earning your money from while simultaneously creating more dire state for the planet as a whole is another issue.

But then again, “Greed is Good”, in your book, eh? Anything to make a buck? A sucker born every minute? I reckon you’re the type of fool that would have stuffed a cigarette into his kid`s yap to prove the science was UNCERTAIN on tobacco while praising Phillip Morris as a model of capitalistic integrity, or poured lead over him to prove that gas injected with ethyl wasn’t harmful to us either?

When making the dosh that EXXON makes maybe, just maybe, they could use a small smidgeon of their 40 billion profits for R & D in renewables (instead of the 90% they invest in exploration) as well as invest in programs that actually contribute to something meaningful instead of funding slick smear campaigns designed solely to soil the work of hard working scientists. Christ, they’ll admit publicly that there are environmental problems associated with their industry and then fund two or three dozen groups to the tune of 23 million dollars just to spread the seeds of doubt to easily malleable minds such as your own. What a great corporate citizen to look to up to. Any other corporate heros you have? Enron? Worldcom? Union Carbide? United Fruits? The Captain of the EXXON Valdez?

Look where Bushies science ADVISORS eventually ended up. You need to see the piece to the end to really appreciate it! Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0i4Sx1edJE
Joao
written by Gringo, February 03, 2008
BTW, I hope you guys read the article "Richest Man in Africa wants a piece of Brazil". He tried to buy Brasil Telecom and failed! The question is do we really want foreign investment?


In terms of privatising the telephony industry in Brazil, there is no other way of describing it other than: a blessing. When it was public it was insane. I arrived here shortly after the industry was privatized and still ended up renting a line from a second party for a year (maybe two) to have a phone at home. Telebras begat a whole underground industry in selling lines that took forever to die. I’ve heard stories of people spending upwards of 2-5 thousand Reais for a single phone line when the system was public (Joao’s insight here would be most welcome). Things are much better now, but Brasil Telecom is STILL a monopoly and treats its clients accordingly. Their service is crap (compared to Ma Bell in Canada), their prices outrageous and if you go to Procom to lodge a complaint, you’ll see that Brasil Telecom makes up about 80% of Procom`s work.

Buying a monopoly is good business for anyone. If I were of that ilk of wealth of course I’d try and purchase a telecommunications monopoly. It’s a license to print money. Trading one monopoly for another however, regardless if foreigners are involved or not, will improve nothing for us mere service users here in Bananalandia. I’d like to see the playing field opened up so as to create an industry based on competition, and then we’d see the same type of price wars going on as with our internet service provider.

We just dumped Terra for Brturbo because BRturbo was hounding us and made an offer which was a faction of the price that Terra had been charging us for years. When we cut Terra loose, they vowed to get us back and with a better offer. Now they are hounding us. Dump the monopolies! How hard can it be? The lines are public are they not?
to gringo
written by baba, February 03, 2008
Just one think to say to your response GRINGO.
BRILLIANT!!!
Poor Gringo!
written by GTY, February 04, 2008
I'm not sure I can subscribe to your lablel as a "right wing provocateur"; as I am totally frustrated with US imperialistic occupations and wish Bush would take his proposed 3 trillion dollar new budget a stuff it up his ass. Just the fact that you provided me with a "Greenpeace link" helps me understand exactly whom I am responding too. You and your extreme left socialist friends have been a fringe minority since your existance and fortunatly you will remain that way...forever.

The fact that you even admit making a profit is refreshing, but my guess is it isn't a very big one, perhaps one day you can put on your big boy pants and understand and participate in the wonders of a free market economy, but first, cut off the pony tail so someone will give you a real job. You talk about the "right wing conspiricay" then in the next paragraph write of the "secret and covert think tanks and fake science groups" employed by the oil companies. Who my Gringo friend is subscribing to conspirices? Exxon is a public company, therefore they can not do anything "covertly"; if they are breaking the law...prove it; if you leftwing; anti American, anti business wingnuts can prove it I am sure you can find some pro bono attorney to try and prosecute it...but no one has. Your argument with Exxon and other big business is that they make too much money, how anti American is that?

And your Greenpeace position on climate change is foolish at best, always good for a few laughs; you laud the scientists who question the left wing research, if which many are prominent and in the private sector, yet you praise your friends in academia who pull s**t out of thin air and you believe it is "science"; if your friends were quality scientists, they wouldn't be leaning over the lab bench in some liberal university with a pony tail and sneakers, they would be doing real work in real science, your scientists are the perverbial bottom of the barrel. While climate change seems to be happening, it is important to undertsand the real cause, not just make s**t up like your hero Al Gore.

Your right; "making a buck" is not the question...making a million bucks is and I doubt very much you have ever gotten close to that goal, to do so you need to understand macro economics and finance; I am sure this is not your strong suit. I'll bet "the man" has kept you from making your full potential. But I really do fell sorry for you if $3.00 a gallon gas is having an impact on your life, I still smile when I fill up the Hummer, American is wonderful.

Exxon uses much more than a 'small smiggen" in R&D, as do all of the oil companies' but renewable energy will only be reality if there is a market for it and they only way there is a market for it is if people change their driving and conservation habits, look at Brazil ...the only way. It won't change by government mandate; it will change when there is a market for renewable energy products. Yes they have a ton of money to protect their interests and there are plently of dirty politicans that take their money and do their bidding, we are occupying a foreign land because of our thirst for oil, but I don't begrudge any one or any company making as much money as they can, to put limits on profits would be a slippery slope indeed. If they are doing something illegal...prove it. Morality is subject to interpretation. It would be immoral of exxon to cheat their stockholders of as much profit as they can make.

Now, for your homework assignment; look up the word monopoly.
GTY part 1
written by Gringo, February 04, 2008
Ah, argumentative fallacies, the “my boat is bigger than your boat” and as usual, not a single fact to back up your rambling childlike gibberish. You have Republican written all over you.

Exxon has been proven and have admitted to funding just what was mentioned, solely for the purpose obfuscating an important global issue. Since you easily dismissed the Greenpeace link, here’s one from Newsweek. Same issue, same information. Care to debunk it, or do you want to continue and guess my hairstyle?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/32482

The fact that you even admit making a profit is refreshing, but my guess is it isn't a very big one, perhaps one day you can put on your big boy pants and understand and participate in the wonders of a free market economy, but first, cut off the pony tail so someone will give you a real job.


What’s this? Care swap bank accounts? How about we just both place our dicks on the table for the ladies to measure? Is that your means of debate? No wonder dealing American knuckle draggers is pointless – you are as shallow as you are ignorant.

Just the fact that you provided me with a "Greenpeace link" helps me understand exactly whom I am responding too.


So who am I? Care to elaborate on your sophomoric diatribe, or is simple name calling and saying “your daddy is bigger than my daddy” sufficient these days to get you through life? I personally think Greenpeace is great! Seeing them jumping in front of harpoon guns in the Antarctic to protect whales from the Japanese, how could you NOT respect that type of determination and dedication to a cause?

You talk about the "right wing conspiricay" then in the next paragraph write of the "secret and covert think tanks and fake science groups" employed by the oil companies. Who my Gringo friend is subscribing to conspirices?


Nothing conspiratorial at all. It’s all well documented.

http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/exxon-mobil-first-steps1/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/sep/19/ethicalliving.g2

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/greenbiz/archives/2007/05/exxons_climate.html

I’m not surprised you wouldn’t know something widely proven given your academic shortcomings, but I guess you can always buy another ring for your trophy wife to make yourself feel better, eh.
GTY2
written by Gringo, February 04, 2008
Exxon is a public company, therefore they can not do anything "covertly"; if they are breaking the law...prove it;


Actually I said it was “morally objectionable”, but again, you don’t seem to think anything is morally objectionable if it earns a profit. We’ve established that like we have establish how piss poor your comprehension is.

if you leftwing; anti American, anti business wingnuts can prove it


Well, I’m none of those. I don’t hate America (although Americans are rather loud and annoying for the most part), I’m far from “leftwing” and I’d be a hypocrite if I were anti business (I already established that fact). So, strike three! I do have a problem with people and companies that feel they have the right to manipulate the public and scapegoat scientists simply to sell a product. What EXXON is doing is no different than what the Tobacco industry did and what the lead industry did years earlier. They went out of their way to lie to a public simply to sell a hazardous product. If you are too dumb to see that, than I only hope you don’t breed.

I am sure you can find some pro bono attorney to try and prosecute it...but no one has. Your argument with Exxon and other big business is that they make too much money, how anti American is that?


Making money is only an American ideal? You should have shut up long ago, now you’re simply embarrassing yourself. As for suing EXXON, too late, or should I say wait in line? You really need to read more.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/20/business/climate.php

And your Greenpeace position on climate change is foolish at best, always good for a few laughs; you laud the scientists who question the left wing research, if which many are prominent and in the private sector, yet you praise your friends in academia who pull s**t out of thin air and you believe it is "science"; if your friends were quality scientists, they wouldn't be leaning over the lab bench in some liberal university with a pony tail and sneakers, they would be doing real work in real science, your scientists are the perverbial bottom of the barrel. While climate change seems to be happening, it is important to undertsand the real cause, not just make s**t up like your hero Al Gore.


Wow, what gibberish. Can you break this down into something even remotely resembling the English language? Maybe take a deep breath and think each thought through before banging away at your keyboard like a deranged psychopath. As for your last line, it is obvious that buffoons like you only came to know about climate change because of a film (reading is something that tires you I imagine) but let me educate your sorry ass and say that the issue of global warming has been on the world agenda for decades. Sadly it needed a partisan voice in the US before anyone THERE paid attention. Americans are not known for their intellectual currency and prefer horse races.

As for scientists? Ya we know, you little Christian Republicans hate science, hate scientists, and hate people that make you feel stupid and hate people that question whether or not the universe was created by some supernatural mass murderer over seven days simply by snapping his fingers.

Exxon uses much more than a 'small smiggen" in R&D,


In comparison to their exploration budget it IS a smidgeon, almost non existent, but we knew you wouldn’t know that. We’ve proven again and again here that you’re not that bright. And alternative fuels are already a reality as well as alternative energy sources. And the market will in fact embrace them as those sorry little excuses for scientists with ponytails and sandals your hate so much develop more efficient and more effective technologies. And they would get more help if EXXON was funding denialism in the land of the easily malleable.

to put limits on profits would be a slippery slope indeed. If they are doing something illegal...prove it. Morality is subject to interpretation. It would be immoral of exxon to cheat their stockholders of as much profit as they can make.


Who said anything about limiting profits? You really need to give your head a shake and brush up on comprehension skills. As to “morality” being subject to “interpretation”? Would you let anyone tell your child that smoking was healthy? Let’s see where your interpretation of morality comes to play.
GTY3
written by Gringo, February 04, 2008
Now, for your homework assignment; look up the word monopoly.


I know what the term involves, and I can ensure you that there is much more meaning behind it than the name of a silly board game. Now get a book,, learn something, and STFU… mmmmmk.... smilies/grin.gif
No hope Gringo
written by GTY, February 04, 2008
Go back to the bong son; I would suggest Milton Friedman as some light reading. There is no civil debate with the hateful left fringe and I would be happy to compare both bank accounts and eductaional pedigrees if you wish, dick too, but you are a gringo and i'm not, so lets take bets first. Actually I'm an independent, just might pull the lever for Obama, but that's because I am a thinker not a lemming like you. So much anger, I must have hit a raw nerve. Facts are facts; you just can't make s**t up and make it true. The problem with you folks from acadademia is that you like to say things that make you "feel good" and disregard the facts that make up the real world. Life is real, not theory, but you have learned that by your lack of achivements havn't you. None of us smoke, my kids play sports, my youngest is 10, he alreay knows how important it is to win, at almost any cost, something I am sure your hippe parents never taught you. I hope they don't smoke, its pretty stupid, but smoking is still legal, its people choice until it isn't.

I am really glad that we have more people committed to generating wealth and jobs than those of you who would like to see us have to share our wealth to take care of those of you on the tit of America. Hey, I hear there is a protest tomorrow, it doesn't really matter what for, but all of your anarchist buddies will be there smoking dope and eating shrooms. Must piss you off to see an imigrant, conservative, well to do business man refuting all of the crap you spread to the uneductaed legions on this blog, giving them another (correct) view.

By the way, I have eaten whale meat in Japan, not half bad either.
...
written by Gringo, February 04, 2008
but you are a gringo and i'm not, so lets take bets first.


So what ARE you, other than a synaptically challenged bigot?

Well, I’m glad you are scurrying off with your tail between your legs, so readily. That was too easy. But your comeback sure was a zinger! Whale meat? Wow, that was funny. I’ll remember that “fer sure, ya’ll”! smilies/cry.gif

I noticed that you didn’t even try and refute one single link posted: I guess NEWSWEEK, the GUARDIAN, the INDEPENDANT and BUSINESS WEEK are all too "leftist" for you. smilies/cheesy.gif Well, I’ll dig up a FOX news link too just for you OK Pedro? smilies/cheesy.gif

And really, who cares if the Tobacco industry, lead industry, CFC industry and gas companies lie to Americans like you right? Win at ALL cost, that´s what you teach you kids right? Ya, I guess I am some rabid leftist who loves stupid little things like fresh air, accountable governments and honesty from corporations. What horrible silly things to demand. smilies/cheesy.gif

Have a nice life Pedro!
...
written by GTY, February 04, 2008
"Have a nice life Pedro!"

Who's the biggot? A racial slur; you are all alike. Nice fluffy liberals when it suits you, sheet wearing Nazi's when it doesn't. I can assure you, I will have a nice life, I have worked hard to make sure of that.

Have a nice life Gomer.

...
written by Gringo, February 04, 2008
A racial slur; you are all alike. Nice fluffy liberals when it suits you


I told you I wasn’t a leftist (or liberal although I bet you really couldn’t define the terms), and where is there racial slur? Since when is “Pedro” (a quite popular name I imagine throughout the Americas) a racial slur? Me thinks someone has identity and acceptance issues.

You’re just typically stupid. There is no hiding it for convenience; it’s out in the open for everyone to see.
...
written by GTY, February 04, 2008
You site leftwing websites for your links, admire Greenpeace, the Sierra Club too I assume, advocate income re-distribution and the confiscation of corporate profits, flawed science from the left submitted by the academia, ponytail, $50K a year, PhD crowd. I work with scientisits everday, not fake scientists but real ones from big pharma, doing real science, oh, no!, not big pharma, I am sure you are out for their profits too..and you claim you are not liberal or leftwing?

Why pick the name Pedro? Did you want to hurt my feelings? I am truly hurt. You picked a common hispanic name, to try and insult, thus, you are obviously a racist, as many liberals are, closet racists. You can call me stupid, you always seem to revert to name calling when you are challenged intellectualy, but then you have limited intellect. But you must be really styling right now, it is the first of the month and welfare checks just came out...better get to the 7-11 and get a 40oz.
...
written by Gringo, February 04, 2008
Wow

One more time. Deep breath. In. Out. In. Out.

Now to your psycho babble..

You site leftwing websites for your links, admire Greenpeace, the Sierra Club too I assume, advocate income re-distribution and the confiscation of corporate profits.


Prove it! Where? Give me a link that shows Greenpeace or the SC advocate income redistribution or shut the f**k up. You may sucker most Yanks with your lies, given how easy they are to lie to (WMD in Iraq cough cough), but you can’t get that s**t by me.

The other websites I presented were the Guardian, The Independent and Newsweek. It’s not my fault you have a problem with facts.

OH, and you work with pharmos eh? qwa qwa qwa. That explains it all. Not only are you hopped up on who knows what, but you’re also working for one of the greediest industries out there. But no worries, I don’t dismiss them outright. And I don’t like companies that break their patents. Surprised?

I work with scientisits everday, not fake scientists but real ones from big pharma, doing real science, oh, no!


Sure you do. I’m sure with your mouth and your proven intellectual sharpness, you pass entire days chatting with these “real scientists”? Or do you just clean their trash at night? Still, what does that have to do with Exxon funding denier groups?

Why pick the name Pedro? Did you want to hurt my feelings? I am truly hurt. You picked a common hispanic name, to try and insult, thus, you are obviously a racist, as many liberals are, closet racists.


No, CULTURE had nothing to do with this whopping I’ve been giving you until you raised the fact that I was a “gringo” and therefore not trustworthy. You made the leap to culture. Not me. I simply figured that the only ones in the US that would use the nomenclature “Gringo” would be Brazilians or Mexicans (or some other group from LA) so I figured if I went through the names one by one I’d eventually get it right, ok Carlos? But it did cut close to the quick didn’t it? You have identity issues, or you wouldn’t throw out the victim card so quickly.

As for me being a lefty liberal, well I’ve already told you that I’m not. I am much too complicated to be divided through either right or left. Still, I bet you can’t even define Liberal. Do me a favour and take a shot at it.

I reckon for you it’s just a knee jerk expression you learned from the boys at the local redneck watering hole, and you toss it around whenever you don’t like what is being said. It’s the “Fox O’Reilly” way of dealing with information. Question the war? You’re a communist and Anti American. Question a company lying to the public? You’re a communist and Anti American. You don’t like apple pie? You’re a communist and Anti- American.

Talk about lemmings?

You can call me stupid, you always seem to revert to name calling when you are challenged intellectualy


I will call you stupid because you have proven yourself as such and there is nothing intellectual at all in any of your ramblings. In between fits of calling me a “leftist” only because I disapprove of a company funding smear campaigns aimed at disinformation directed at the public, and your childlike boasts of Hummers and salaries you’ve not offered anything here that can even be remotely considered a fact let alone intellectually stimulating.

Like I’ve said before, STFU.
Gringo
written by João da Silva, February 04, 2008
If you lose the debate, you lose the first two rounds of cold ones I promised.So get the job done and behead GTY ASAP (or ask him to commit "Harakiri"). GTY is playing "Coitadinho" smilies/wink.gif
Joao
written by Gringo, February 04, 2008
If you lose the debate


You have doubts? smilies/wink.gif
Interesting Debate
written by MKJ246, February 05, 2008
Wow, what an interesting debate. It reflects the real world: The conservative uses name calling and pigeon-holing for his arguments, and the non-partisan, opposing view cites information with links to credible sources backing up his arguments.

Gee, I wonder who is closer to the truth?
...
written by GTY, February 05, 2008
Wow Gringo, you have out done yoursel! Don't bust a blood vessel, so much anger, its not good for you, take a pill, or 20. Its fun to try and analyze folks on this site, thats why I pop in from time to time...still the same, a bunch of idealistic morons trying to save the whales. Sometimes I think that I, and maybe Joao really get it. Its hard for me to believe so many of you live with your heads up your asses.

It was fun and I will check back in one day, have to catch a flight this morning to sell more drugs to big pharma; since you are probably un or under employed, I am sure you will roll out of bed around 11:00 to check you email, the highlight of your day,please hold my spot until I pop back in when I get bored...which is not often.

You really are a friggen moron, I have been leading you around by the nose for two days and you didn't even know it, even Joao recognized it. Care to explain Joao? Its no wonder the liberal agenda never works, you guys are just so angry, its hard to be rational when you are contantly pissed. You liberals get truely pissed off because you are so unhappy with your lots in life, low incomes, poor healthcare, just dreaming of a new Prius instead of being able to afford one. Are you in one of the Super Tuesday states? Then go vote for Clinton, she is going to take more of my tax dollars (I am in the top 1%) and use it to provide you with more freebes...so you should be thanking me (your welcome!). Those of us who create wealth and actually have enough to be true consumers keep your pathetic little world running...geez, how can you even get out of bed in the morning?

So lets recap where we started. No matter how much you would like it to; Big Oil is not going away, either is big defense or big pharma or any other big business, in fact right now Exxon is having their "secret meetings" to plan their strategy to reach $50B in profits, this in a softening economy, politicians and their lobbyists will take their dirty money and life will go on. God Bless them!

The econmy is going to take a turn for the worse, already has, it happens every 20 years or so. High oil prices, inflation, weak dollar equals unemployemnt, foreclosures and for people like me opportunity. You and your liberal friends are in for a few tough years, I am sure you will all bicth and complain, lose your pathetic jobs, go into more debit and hope the govenrment can take care of you while you worry yourselves bald. Me and my friends will find countless new opportunites in your misery, we have all worked hard, out smarted all of you left wing wingnuts and have been waiting for this economy for a long time. While you try and push your bills, I will be buying my fourth home, planning a month in Europe and making sure my kids get the best education money can buy.

You see; there really is a sucker born every minute...right Joao?
Tchauzinho trutinho
written by Gringo, February 05, 2008
Ya gotta love America, where else can a dyslexic idiot with rabid turrets syndrome and no idea of how to create or defend an argument get a job selling Prozac and Viagra? Well Chico, given your comprehension and grammatical skills, I take it you were employed under the affirmative action plan, no? I can’t see anyone hiring you on merit alone. You’re too stupid for words. But, I digress.

Anyways Jose, you’re a fraud and a huckster, a liar and from all accounts here, extremely delusional and easily set off. But I will give you credit, you exemplify the ugly dumb American image most cling to.

As to the original point, I assume you have acquiesced to the fact that Exxon has funded groups with the sole purpose of manipulating science? Or do you need a few more links? I’ve notice you have stayed clear of this point for two or three posts now. Your silence on the matter has you throwing in the towel.

As for the rest of your rant – well, as per usual, it made no sense at all. A long winded pointless diatribe aimed at some fictitious character you have created in your pill-popped delusional head. No creativity, no thought, no analysis, just an idiot froathing away spewing bile and nonsense. And you call “Liberals” angry? Btw, have you even defined Liberal yet? Or is it simply anyone who is smarter than you?

Well sunshine, you go and sell your pills. Sounds like fascinating work. Really, exciting stuff! Good for you. I’m going to get back to my tofu, sing Kumbaya, smoke pot and what else?

Now go catch your flight, leave the forum and don’t let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. Check in whenever you feel the need to embarrass yourself again. Or to let us know that you just bought the Eiffel Tower and the Pyramids with your millions, mkkkk?
GTY
written by A Brazilian, February 05, 2008
You picked a common hispanic name, to try and insult, thus, you are obviously a racist, as many liberals are, closet racists.


That's Gringo. He is the one that believe that Indians shouldn't receive education and should be kept "in their place", i.e., the stone age. I have reached the conclusion for what I can see in forums like these and in other places that the most zealous people regarding the "respect for other cultures and identities" are usually those who doesn't admit intermingling. If you step a centimeter out of the "pre-approved stereotype" they start pointing fingers and saying that you are "denying" who you are, meanwhile they promote stupidity among Indians and other non-white ethnicities as a form of "being proud".

I am proud, of my bank account!
...
written by GTY, February 05, 2008
"I am proud, of my bank account! "

Good for you Brazilian, you should be! And you hit the "gringo" nail on the head!

...
written by GTY, February 05, 2008
"no idea of how to create or defend an argument get a job selling Prozac and Viagra? "

No way Gomer...not enough $$$ in it, I sell the ingredients to make Viagra and Prozac, as well as hundreds of other drugs. Gonna be in Sao Paulo next week visiting Pfizer and Sanofi; entertaining customers at Clube Bahamas. I would invite you; but you couldn't get in the door, there is a cover charge way beyond your means and well, if you really are a gringo, it would be all too much for you. Brazilian women need brown men, they grow weary of pale gringos...but the good news is they don't expect much from them either smilies/smiley.gif Viva La Raza, Viva the good old USA. Where else can a browm man have a white man cutting his lawn, cleabing his toilets and washing his cars?!! And have a high speed internet connection so he can punk left wing "gringo" liberals.
GTY
written by Gringo, February 05, 2008
Hey aren't you suppose to be on a flight? What a lying piece of work you are. No surprises that Ape would befriend you.

That's Gringo. He is the one that believe that Indians shouldn't receive education and should be kept "in their place", i.e.


We know your comprehension skills are about the same as the lying, "oh I need to catch a flight" GTY's smilies/wink.gif Your both dumber than a box of hammers. But to refresh your limited memory, were told time and time again that these groups could "do as they liked" (that's called SELF DETERMINATION), I objected to your forced indoctrination and your FINAL SOLUTION to the cultures you deemed "Ignorant and dead". You don't see the difference, and given your Cro magnon mentality, you never will. As for pushing the limits of snobbery, your condemnation of Carnaval was probably a more rabid attack on Brazilan culture than even Ch.c could muster. I loved it!

I'm glad you two boys found one another, it's the prefect match. smilies/cheesy.gif
...
written by Gringo, February 05, 2008
If you step a centimeter out of the "pre-approved stereotype" they start pointing fingers and saying that you are "denying" who you are, meanwhile they promote stupidity among Indians and other non-white ethnicities as a form of "being proud".


A classic Apism! Full of "THEYs" "YOUs" and not a single fact or name. Like that magical group the "SOME" you thought were keeping the "IGNORANTS" stupid to protect resources to an a first world lifestyle.... smilies/grin.gif
...
written by Gringo, February 05, 2008
if you really are a gringo, it would be all too much for you. Brazilian women need brown men, they grow weary of pale gringos...but the good news is they don't expect much from them either smilies/smiley.gif Viva La Raza, Viva the good old USA. Where else can a browm man have a white man cutting his lawn, cleabing his toilets and washing his cars?!! And have a high speed internet connection so he can punk left wing "gringo" liberals.


Nothing much to add here GTY, you outclassed me. smilies/grin.gif So were would I be able to get one of those jobs "CLEABING" toilets?
You're just going out of your way to prove a whole host of stereotypes today eh? I thought you were flying? Now you on your way to Sao Paulo? Ya, ok... smilies/grin.gif
Hey dumbass
written by GTY, February 05, 2008
We actually have a hotspot here in the FLL airport, unlike the third world armpit you are probably typing from;it gives me a chance for a last laugh at your left wing, liberal dribble. First to Puerto Rico..and THEN to Sao Paulo. Its gonna be a great trip. I think your mom already has the job CLEABING my toilets. Enjoy, seems like a lot of posters have your number, I am pleasantly surprized.
Oh yeah
written by GTY, February 05, 2008
I actually have a laptop I can travel with, golly gee Gomer, try packing that 10 year old desk top in your travel bag!
...
written by Gringo, February 05, 2008
We actually have a hotspot here in the FLL airport, unlike the third world armpit you are probably typing from;it gives me a chance for a last laugh at your left wing, liberal dribble.


Sure you are at an airport? Sure you are. smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif

And what third world armpit would I be typing from? Viva la raca! smilies/grin.gif

Still, I particularly like when you wrote:

if you really are a gringo, it would be all too much for you. Brazilian women need brown men, they grow weary of pale gringos...but the good news is they don't expect much from them either smilies/smiley.gif Viva La Raza


That certainly was a classy line. Nothing left to the imagination. Pure bigotry. Like I said, you sure do go out of your way to reaffirm stereotypes. I hope your as well accepted being a Latin in the US, as you accept others. smilies/grin.gif

Enjoy, seems like a lot of posters have your number, I am pleasantly surprized.


How does ABE constitute "A LOT"? One retarded fascist individual does not constitute a LOT no matter how hard you try and sell the idea. Actually, MKJ was siding with me although your piss poor comprehension skills probably blinds you to the glaringly obvious. And, he has YOUR number in the discussion part of the article he wrote. Have a look.

Enjoy your flight smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif

GTY
written by João da Silva, February 05, 2008
You see; there really is a sucker born every minute...right Joao?


Wrong. GTY, how can you be so dumb to get into a debate without re reading "Art of War"? Last year you claimed that you had read this book. It is obvious that you read everything and learn' t nothing. Of course if our master Sun Tzu was a Mexican, you would have gone overboard and remembered every word he said."Know Your Enemy" is something you should have remembered. You made too many assumptions about "El Gringo" and ignored his cunning and subterfuge tactics.On the contrary, he had studied every micro details of you. It was obvious from the beginning that you were behaving like that Limey fella who lead the "Charge of the Light Brigade" (I don't even want to cite that Custer, because you may start claiming that you are his direct descendant).

Every single blogger in this thread (though I don't see many except us) will agree that you lost the debate. I recommend that you surrender. In order to make your life easier, I have personally spoken to the "Porteiro" of Clube Bahamas to accept your unconditional surrender and show some clemency on you (He may ask for a bigger tip, but you can afford it).

What an ignominious end to a proud Hispanic American like you to end up in the dungeons of Clube Bahamas and rot there for rest of your life smilies/cry.gif
Gringo(norrhea)
written by ..., February 06, 2008
You win… “The most words for the smallest idea.”

You were, you are and you will always be a prick FDP. If you ever bite your tongue, you will die from acid poisoning.

Yours truly,

Costinha da Costa
Mr. João da Silva
written by ..., February 06, 2008
You are starting to nauseate many of us by inserting your talking head so far up gringo’ S and seeing things from his point of view… quit appeasing that gringo puto!

Costinha
And you GTY (Great Turd Yankee)…
written by ..., February 06, 2008
Are not too far behind the S hole contest. Fight global warming by shutting your freaking mouth, infectious genital.

Costinha
Don´t feed the trolls
written by Troll Buster, February 06, 2008