Brazzil

Hell, I know a lot of people that would be satisfied with just consistantly arriving at your destination airport safely!

While this editorial is likely to strike most readers as an outrageous exercise of unrealistic expectations, given the immensity of issues Brazilians must consider – ranging for land re-distribution and agrarian reform to improving/building the national infrastructure and income disparity between social classes - prior to engaging into any discussion about space exploration projects, I feel compelled to remind potential critics that high goals and apparently impractical, idealistic targets should be established in order to motivate and inspire any given society to take the basic steps necessary for overcoming lasting, unbreakable obstacles precluding the overall improvement of its people’s self-assurance, health, and education.

Without developing and improving the quality of education it would never be possible for any nation to obtain the Human Capital quintessential for planning, executing and concluding the most basic projects which are indispensible for upgrading its citizen’s quality of life, strengthening their identity, and expending their horizons.

When teachers and professors are not fairly compensated and the importance of education is not adequately recognized, no nation could realistically expect to upgrade the indispensible infrastructure, increase the number of doctors/technicians, expand/diversify industrial production, and reduce the extreme disparity in income which has always plagued the Brazilian nation.

North American science and technology carried the first man to the moon...

Like the effort to develop the atomic bomb, sending a man to the moon was a national priority under the Kennedy administration, and was achieved not by american science and technology. The real heroes of the moon effort were the scientists, from many different counties,
working for NASA.
NASA is like the UN : people from different nationalities, including brazilians, working for the progress af space science.

North American science and technology carried the first man to the moon...

Like the effort to develop the atomic bomb, sending a man to the moon was a national priority under the Kennedy administration, and was achieved not by american science and technology. The real heroes of the moon effort were the scientists, from many different counties,
working for NASA.
NASA is like the UN : people from different nationalities, including brazilians, working for the progress af space science.

NASA is like the UN : people from different nationalities, including brazilians, working for the progress af space science.

Well wonder why it had to be done in the U.S.?

And there weren't any brazilians working for Nasa in the 1960's nor '70's and hardly any even today.

NASA is like the UN : people from different nationalities, including brazilians, working for the progress af space science.

Well wonder why it had to be done in the U.S.?

And there weren't any brazilians working for Nasa in the 1960's nor '70's and hardly any even today.

Come on, come on Buarque !
Just listen to Robbing Hook and his many gangs. Just read the brazilians medias such as this one. Just read what the "clever" brazilians forum members say !

They all agree that Brazil is at the forefront of science and technology.
Now they can extract iron ore...using Caterpilar dozers and foreign locomotives such as the ones produced by GE.
Now they can explore for deep oil drilling...using foreign technogies.
Now they can harvest 45 % of their sugarcane...using Deere mechanical harvesters. Despite ALL developed countries producing sugarcane are for decades on 100 % mechanical harvesters. Australia since 1980
- Now they can produce cars. Ford, GM, Fiat, BMW cars.
Now they can produce drugs for Aids...after having broken and pirated the foreign patents !
Now they can produce Soyabeans, corn....using foreign seeds, foreign pesticides/fongicides, foreign tractors, foreign harvesters...MADE IN BRAZIL, similar to their "apparent Brazilian cars" which are in fact FOREIGN CARS.... MADE IN BRAZIL...USING ZERO BRAZILIAN TECHNOLOGY !
Even the flex fuel system was developed by BOSCH - a German Comoany -
and not by brazilian engineers despite the pretentious Brazilians having said otherwise...THOUSANDS OF TIMES !!!!!

Come on, come on Buarque !
No one earth is better than Brazilians.
A Simple proof is by reading the yellow-green ad showed in this site stipulating.....BRAZIL IS THE WORLD STRONGEST EMERGING MARKET - BRIC COUNTRIES -
And this despite the reality they have the lowest growth rate in....
- Mercosur
- BRIC
- One of the lowest growth rate of MOST emerging countries on Earth, including African countries. Be it for 2003-2009 period or just 2009 alone.

And to CJB comments :
Why in your view Brazil has not yet welcomed FOREIGN SCIENTISTS, RESEARCHERS, FOREIGN INDUSTRY/COMPANIES CHIEFS FOR BRAZILIANS COMPANIES OR UNIVERSITIES OR R&D LABORATORIES ????????

Wellll because Brazil always expect OTHERS TO PAY FOR R&D COSTS RISKS, and IF IT WORKS...then only they WANT THE BENEFIT OF IT....without ever incurring the risks !
Quite the same for your PC software...mostly COPIED/PIRATED...to get them much cheaper !
And to my knowledge Brazil is the ONLY BRIC MEMBER NOT HAVING ITS OWN CARS MANUFACTURER !

Hmmmm !

Consequently, it has not achieved a scientific and technological level capable of competing internationally.

Did anyone ask your opinion?

And there weren't any brazilians working for Nasa in the 1960's nor '70's and hardly any even today.

Neil, have you heard of a fella by the name of Col.Marcos Pontes? I don't blame you (being an old senile Gringo) if you don't recall this name. Not many Brasilians have heard of him either!

The US should stop all their sabotage at the Alcantara launch site.

The US should stop all their sabotage at the Alcantara launch site.

We leave this issue under the capable hands of the good senator from MA & AP, my dear fellow.

Neil, have you heard of a fella by the name of Col.Marcos Pontes? I don't blame you (being an old senile Gringo) if you don't recall this name. Not many Brasilians have heard of him either!

Of course I have. The first brazilian in outerspace....in 2006. He received his training at NASA.

Also, the only "brazilian" scientist to have ever worked for NASA appears to be Dr. Rosaly Lopes. But unfortunately the brazilian educational system cannot take credit for her achievements since she left Brazil at 18 years of age to receive her "higher education" in the U.K. And, Dr. Lopes didn't work directly for NASA, she has participated in study groups out of England and the U.S. that have worked in conjunction with NASA.

I certainly hope that our friend CJB isn't insinuating that Brazilians or the brazilian educational system has had any influence or impact on space exploration or development. As that would truly be "caressing one's navel" to the 10th degree and would be akin to saying that Ronald Reagan was responsible for "forro", the "macarena", "churrasco" and "feijoada".

written by titan, August 07, 2009
The US should stop all their sabotage at the Alcantara launch site.

Come on now Titan, that's like saying we need to entice Oprah to eat a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken. She does a fine job, all by herself!

Neil, have you heard of a fella by the name of Col.Marcos Pontes?

He's a well trained Space tourist. Brazil paid huge to send him up in a Russian rocket. The Americans never entertained the idea of actually having him go up in one of their shuttles on one of their missions, and you need to ask why.

That sentiment is not only mine but you can hear it echoed across Brazil, too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/08/world/americas/08rio.html

I've no doubt that Pontes is a smart man, but his flight was a scam aimed at bolstering a Nation's pure self image, and not for any true scientific inquiry. Sad really.

pure=poor

The origins of Colonel Pontes's voyage go back to 1997, when Brazil was invited, at NASA's behest, to be one of 16 nations participating in the International Space Station project. In return for manufacturing certain parts for the station, at an estimated cost of $120 million, Brazil would receive the right to send someone into space.

But Brazil informed the consortium in 2001 that it would not be able to meet the first deadline, in part because funds were lacking. It then missed a second deadline, and Colonel Pontes's mission was put on indefinite hold.

During a visit to Russia late last year, Mr. da Silva, rather than lose the money already invested in Colonel Pontes's training, signed an agreement that made the Brazilian astronaut a paying customer aboard a Russian spacecraft. Russia also agreed to help Brazil develop a liquid fuel rocket, the weak spot in a program that has had some success in building and launching satellites.

At the 2003 funeral of the victims of the Alcantara disaster, Mr. da Silva promised that Brazil would still launch its first rocket into space by the time his term ended, at the end of this year. But Mr. Gaudenzi said that target had been abandoned as unrealistic, with 2009 set as the most likely new date for a launching attempt.

Colonel Pontes's space voyage is officially known as the Centennial Mission, a reference to Brazil's pioneering aviator Alberto Santos Dumont. Brazilians are taught that Santos Dumont, not the Wright Brothers, was the first man to fly, before cheering throngs in Paris in 1906. Colonel Pontes has even been photographed aboard the space station wearing one of Santos Dumont's trademark white Panama hats.

"Few have been the moments in which we've been as proud of a Brazilian as we are of you," Mr. da Silva, who must win an October election if he is to have a second term, said during a televised 14-minute conversation with the astronaut on Wednesday. "What we are spending is little compared to what this could represent for Brazilian space policy."

The highlighted statement, what can one say, sounds like a punchline in one of my jokes!

I've no doubt that Pontes is a smart man,

AND...AND... I have no doubt that you are also a very smart and well informed man!

But unfortunately the brazilian educational system cannot take credit for her achievements since she left Brazil at 18 years of age to receive her "higher education" in the U.K

Fortunately, Dr.Lopes took the right decision at her tender age of 18.

I remain pessimist regarding all things educational in Brazil. Having lived in Brazil for a couple of years, the atmosphere of anti-intellectualism is palpable. The act of reading a book is still something out of "extraordinary" for most common folk, and most would rather assist an episode of any of Globo's novelas, than waste time reading.

Also, most people think about "ganhar dinheiro" (which is laudable in itself) but the percetange of population with an inner impulse towards mastering a subfield of knowledge and producing a superior product, competitive on the global level, based on this knowledge, is minuscule.

It is this, I think, where Brazil differs mostly and crucially from the remaining BRIC troika: Russia, India, China - all of these three have strong tradition in science, differently from Brazil.

My conclusion is that Brazil will forever remain a economy based on extraction of raw resources, and adoption (but not creation) of know-how.

I hope I am wrong with this, and that Brazil will find strength to transition towards a more knowledge-based economy.

Brazil and BRIC, science, etc

That was a very nice "Farewell Note", Jakob and thank you. Reminds me of the old proverb: "You can feed the horse, but cant make it eat".

Thanks once again.

João, I think you mean...

"you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink."

João, I think you mean...

"you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink."

Mr.Ed, I warmly welcome to this blog as well as compliment you for correctly interpreting the ancient saying. Of course, we have to bear in mind that a)The old English was corrupted, mainly because of the American influence b)The horses started doing whatever they wanted depending on the country they were born. c) Ultimately they formed an Union to fight their own masters.

The end result: You can feed the horse or lead it to water, BUT....BUT.... it is on a hunger strike. Whatever money spent on educating these horses in any language is a waste of Tax Payers money.

BTW, Mr.Ed, you don't have to stress yourself so much to hide your real ID.

Hey João, I still have dealings with Brazil. Many contacts. You can't just throw this out of window. And despite of all my criticisms of Brazil, the country still impresses in a particular way.

It's difficult to explain. Brazil is an intimidating but curious country; a 3rd world country but eternally hopeful; full of criminals and crooks but then full of great, warm, knowleadgeable individuals too.

And to be faithful to my general stance (which is criticizing Brazil), it is unfortunately also a place where it's almost impossible to live a peaceful, productive life. In Brazil, you simply don't know what is lurking behind the next corner: it could be a moleque shooting you in the back for 20 reais, just like that.

So I will keep "admiring" Brazil from far, far away. Hope springs eternal!

Thanks for the reply, Jakob. I was teasing you when I mentioned about your "Farewell Note"!!

but then full of great, warm, knowleadgeable individuals too.

Probably such individuals you met share the same line of thoughts as yours about Brasil.They are the ones who assume their responsibilities and make the country tick. Unfortunately they make up a "voiceless" minority.

Hopefully, you will continue admiring Brazil "from far, far away" and remembering some fine Brasilians you met!

E Joao, e interessante isso com Brasil... No momento as coisas nao estao boas, favelas estao se espalhando, crime esta aumentando etc... Muitos dos meus amigos brasileiros emigraram, especialmente os com familias e criancas pequenas. Simplesmente nao da para deixar as criancas brincarem na rua: voce sempre esta com medo de: bala perdida, sequestro, carro desgovernado/motoristas embriagados, e por ai vai. Todo mundo fala de crescimento, a sobre boa situacao macro-economica no Brasil, mas isso nao tem nada a ver com bem-estar de pessoas comuns, e familias.

Vejo tantos problemas para resolver, no o primeiro passo seria lidar com CORUPCAO, que esta simplesmente matando Brasil. Esses politicos no Brazil sao... algo especial, algo incrivel. Nao tenho palavras.

Since the time when a valiant Prince of Good Will "uttered screaming laudations” of glory, freedom and greatness from the banks of the Ypiranga River, the so-called giant has been immersed in a profound, deep, endless sleep…

Quite frankly, given the enormity of the barriers stemming from a boundless stream of corruption, lawlessness and cruelty, one can hardly foresee the very distant day when Tropicalia will emerge from the depths of obscurity, injustice and poverty…

Episilon Eridani,

Quite frankly, given the enormity of the barriers stemming from a boundless stream of corruption, lawlessness and cruelty,

You nailed it. Especially this third item (cruelty) - everybody knows about corruption and lawlessness in Brazil, but not so many outsiders know about cruelty in Brazil.

And what a cruel country Brasil is. I am still reeling from some accidents that I read about/saw on TV (e.g. that boy Helio dragged through the streets, until all what was left from him was a dangling, bloody piece of meat; or that women killed and sawed in pieces in Botafogo; or those three French humanitarians butchered in Copacabana by Brazilians who were employed by these same people, ...).

It's a systemic thing.

Brazil has turned into Congo
...The horror, the horror, the horror...
(Darkness At Noon)

i raised my kid in brazil in a place he could run the streets all night....there are places in brazil you dont have as much violence as in the big cities.

its trade offs....look at the f**king states...you are going to harp about corruption in brazil after what just happened to our economy there under bush? with the utter rectum gut wrenching stretching or our collective asses...i am as angry as all goddamn hell at that and the people who did it...i am angry as hell at the bush administration and the f**king absolutly disgusting s**t mud hole they dragged our whole country down into for the last 8 years. look at the f**king dog doo dollar, it started falling in the bush administration and just hasnt stopped...

the states has the same hassles in life as brazil. there are good neighborhoods and bad neighborhoods. there are good hard working people just trying to raise their families and thugy power hungry greedy people who would walk over thier mothers grave to get ahead..

the biggest thing im mad as hell at the people who wrecked the states is , look what the f**k they left our children...a country that is on the decline that hopefully they will be able to pull out of ...

i have plenty of hassles in brazil , i wouldnt say its the best of all worlds...its trade offs...somethings brazil has are very special and unique to it...and, in other things it has lots of problems..im not ready to get out, police federal will have to throw me out...or someone has to give me a business offer i cant refuse...

Take it easy there snake. Jakoffb wasn't being nearly as hard on our dearly beloved as one might think. Clearly he hit upon a couple unsavory highlights of recent fame but having caveated all with "that I read about" means he doesn't really know / understand squat like you or I do about what it's really like. If I make that unrefuseable business opportunity here and you make one there which is on par with it - would you agree to do an even-steven swap with me?

BTW, there are places with NO crime but then again the kids there don't run the streets all night / mostly everything closes or shuts down around 9 or 10 pm. Walking, talking, visiting whomever is up or still has lights on in the house after that, even far into the wee morning hours is a pleasure few Jakoffbs could or would ever have the contenence or spirit to appreciate.

I beg to differ Simpleton
While I would have no idea about your age, I will assume being your senior... As such, because I grew up in another Brazil, which was growing within a SAFE environment, despite some necessary limitations, during the Miliary Government... And left way before CHAOS was implemented by the freedoms of democracy, I am in a position to ascertain that today's Brazil is not recognizable with unprecented levels of Cruelty and lawlessness

...and, im not looking for just any business offer, im looking for offers in my business....

augustus, if you mean the big cities, you have a point, but, there are comunities in brazil that are not as violent...

but , i have to confess, they busted a crack gang not too far from where i live...the peace and tranquility i had for a bunch of years, here, is in jeaprody

porto de galinhas, ubatuba, maraseias, praia de francais,paraty, rio das ostras,some comunities in florianopolis,are just a few places that i think you dont have to worry about a lost bullet or getting asaulted every day....and there are a lot of places i just dont know about.petty crime is every where in the world...

Yet, for some of us, life (anywhere) would not be "conceivable" outside major metropolitan areas, which in Brazil's case is mostly restricted to its two main Metropolitan areas: SAO PAULO & RIO DE JANEIRO, where, unfortunately, the above-mentioned SERIOUS issues plague innocent residents and visitors alike on a daily basis – particularly Rio (my “original” home-town).

Based on what I have read and heard during the past several years, it appears that I might be unable to recognize Rio if I were to make a visit today. This is particularly distressing when I recall walking along nearly empty streets (as a teen ager - in relatively quiet areas) during the wee hours of the morning, or hanging out on the beach at night with a few friends, without any consideration for imminent danger. Although crime has always existed (in any major metropolis on this planet), during my youth I recall equating the amount of “criminal activity” in Rio to hardly above the levels reported from either Paris or San Francisco.

In addition to acknowledging this excessive criminal activity as an unavoidable consequence emerging from the re-introduction of Western-style freedom in the mid 1980’s, one must also take into account the significant contribution of FARC, which appears to be controlling most drug lords within Brazilian metropolitan areas. If only the current “left-wing” Brazilian government were not so close (and influenced) by FARC’s main benefactor/banker/protector in Caracas (the intolerable Hugo Chavez), perhaps the level of cruelty & barbarism would not have been quite as high…

My sole question, echoing previous comments, remains: how much longer will it take for the valiant Brazilian Armed Forces to take the necessary “measures” in order to put an end to so deplorable a condition?

p.s. Rio das Ostras is indeed a charming little beach resort

This is particularly distressing when I recall walking along nearly empty streets (as a teen ager - in relatively quiet areas) during the wee hours of the morning, or hanging out on the beach at night with a few friends, without any consideration for imminent danger.

I recall doing so in your "Home Town" years ago.Charming Cariocas (especially the ladies). The last time I went there a couple of years ago, the " Good Cariocas" recommended that I shouldn't do so.

BUT....BUT..., Rio and SP, still have their charms (Not to forget CTA,POA, etc

i always think what would rio have been like before i got there in 1986...that city marked my life and will forever be a special part of my experiances...and,i always was curious what it would have been like 10 or 20 or 30 or 50 or 80 or 120 or 200 etc etc years ago, in each period...just to see what the people would have been like, in that city that has so much culture and electricity. the woman would have had to been as beautuful as the ones when i got there in 1986, just dressed differantly...and the history of samba in rio and the samba dance all just tantalise my imagination as to how they develeoped...like the passistas dressed in fantacias...that came in about 1950 or so...and they actualy had frevo coming down the avenue in the carnival proscesions along with the samba schools...i saw it in a docu ( i knew they moved recording the frevo cancaos to rio from recife ,in the 1930's through the record producor , rosenblatt)...sends chills up and down my spine...

i still can have fun in rio, but, people do have a worried look on their faces...but hell, new york in the early eithties when i lived there was wild and wholly with drug dealers on the corner, and people getting assainated on the west side highway ( or maybe the other one) with their families in the car and a babies body all out dead in a picture in the new york post, on the cement highway...and of course there was the deuce ( 42nd street ) where i had to cross sometimes 6 times a to get to vaarious jobs 3 times a day....blaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh

brazil is just like new york in the eighties to me, home sweet home....

Some charms must have remained indeed in both cities; particularly, for me, in PAULICEIA. I truly love that city! IF... despite all its current dangers & problems... IF it remains as vibrant as it used to be in 2000, when I spent considerable time there, I must confess that I now consider SAO PAULO more exciting than New York city (except on Sunday mornings – or when stuck in massive traffic jams )

Indeed, NYC became, gradually, increasingly more dangerous during the Reagan years (1980's), which in fact surprised me (since I had recently arrived). I clearly recall the huge number of homeless people in every city block, occupying several abandoned buildings, and sleeping in subway cars... Not to mention the horric 42nd Street (now a Disney - family paradise)... In fact I wonder what may have happened to all those homeless people... Either they have all moved to San Francisco (which recently got the problem) or they were sent to the bottom of the Hudson River by Mayor Giuliani

As for Rio several decades ago, I'm afraid that I'm not THAT old. Yet, I know for certain that it was always extremely charming, lively and lovely. As you may know from history, Rio was the Brazilian capital until the year 1960 which also coincided with the time when Sao Paulo started becaming wealthier and more important (in this connection, I recall that in the 1980's nearly all flights from NYC were non-stop to Rio, with continuing service to Sao Paulo.... NOT ANYMORE - QUITE the opposite). In connection with your curiosity about historical Rio, might I suggest you consider watching two movies (ORFEU NEGRO - which displays Rio image & life in 1959) and "O Xango de Baker Street" (a recent commedy which provides a decent idea of what Rio must have been around 1885, when it was the IMPERIAL MUNICIPALITY OF THE COURT).

How could I have forgotten, my very favorite Brazilian movie (which displays several views of Rio around 1969 at the very beginning, and which is a fantastic, immoral, typically deliciously Carioca): TODA NUDEZ SERA CASTIGADA ("all nakedness will be punished") played an icon of Brazilian 20th century cinema - Darlene Gloria
I highly recommend it - IT'S OUTRAGOUS & SHOCKING!!!!!!

and it profoundly affected me....

people think only bossa nova became famous by itself...wrong, this movie , with a good take on bateria and escola de samba , as well as frevo, condomble etc, was side by side with the bossa sound track with jobim, joao gilberto, luis bonfa, and others, was what really made bossa take off. for me, bossa has to be beside some sambao to be really put together for the total affect...

ill try to catch those other movies

An incredibly beautiful day.Though I do not understand much about music, like you or our friend Lord Augustus, I suggest you go through the following website of one of my favorite singers:

http://www.sidneymagal.com.br/

I think Augustus must remember Sidney Magal. In case you watch Band TV (Channel 9, here), he has a comedy show after the evening News. You would love the drums as well as the lyrics of some of the songs (from the late 60´s and 70´s). Unfortunately, I do not have "Bose" earphones, but the Chinese made ones I have still allow me to enjoy Sidney´s songs.

used to have a lambada theme with two dancers on each side of him...

i do admire the form of some of the girls on his show...

its still too chilly for me...june july and august are a waste for me down here in the south....but, its better than a chicago winter...

its still too chilly for me...june july and august are a waste for me down here in the south....but, its better than a chicago winter...

The ideal thing for me is to spend 6 months in the "Windy City" and another 6 here. This way, we get the best of "both the worlds". Chicago from May to November is just gorgeous (the cities that can beat it are the ones located North of your border).

BUT....BUT...., brace yourself for another week of bad weather. BTW, when the weather gets better, I intend visiting that Fortress near your home and taking some pictures with the new gadget I acquired. May be you would like to join me?

maybe one night you can also join me at the bianco lounge to see that guitar player (when he is playing there, i hear he has a drummer from chicago) you met who you know his girl freinds mother...

(when he is playing there, i hear he has a drummer from chicago)

I have met this drummer from Chicago and he is very good. Also " muito educado" like many Mid-Westerners I have known. If I recall correctly, there is another kid that integrates this band . I think he is from NM, though. A great singer and very talented.

I know the Guitarist you are talking about. Another great talent. The interesting thing about this bunch is that they are all bilingual and they can sing both in English and Portuguese.

As for the Guitarist´s girlfriend´s Mom: A great lady!!

Unlike ASP, most other Brazilians and perhaps also Joao, I absolutely despite and, if at all possible, will always avoid residing in areas with hot weather/climate.

When growing up in Rio de Janeiro, I clearly recall the growing discomfort felt every new year, when each long, unbearable summer was perceived and lamented as far worse than the previous one. My extreme dislike for the heat and its disgusting, unavoidable biological consequence – constant perspiration & and inescapable discomfort – was in fact one of the four main reasons I always planned to leave Brazil (and surely Rio), for I have never liked, do not tolerate, and shall always despise the Tropics, its humidity, its insects, and the misery and ignorance of the overwhelming majority of the inhabitants of the land masses located between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn!

While civilization could not possibly have emerged in the areas of any human planet where cold weather prevails (thus explaining early settlements in Anatolia, Sumer, Egypt, Babylon, India and even Greece), whenever it reaches a certain level, where government, science, literature, existentialism, and humanism either advance or emerge, such further step would not be possible outside areas where four clear seasons (including a cold winter) exists, for it imposes the unavoidable necessity of hard work, discipline, and the rule of law in order for its people to survive and excel… One may argue then, they might as well have remained in the tropical zone; yet, if humanity had remained confined to those areas it would not have gone beyond the conditions which existed in the Roman Empire (or worse, it would have remained condemned to the exist enduring the horrific conditions of the Early Middle Ages…

If one take an object close look at the World map, without and prejudice or intellectual dependency, he/she will clearly concur that for the past 500 years, all major civilizations have emerged and continued in the Temperate or Sub Arctic zones of Earth (Northern Europe, North America, Russian, northern China and Japan – with perhaps some current notable exceptions, due to Oil wealth in tiny territories). Likewise, if one checks the most advanced areas of any continent or country, one will find, without no exceptions, that the northern regions of nations in the Northern hemisphere as well as the Southern sections of countries in the Southern Hemisphere are not only more developed, but also better informed, educated and, quite frankly more civilized.

Begging the pardon for the blatant honesty, I rest my case!
Hot weather = barbarisms, chaos, ignorance, prejudice, intolerance, hatred, and cruelty…

i have to confess, i start to suffer a little more each year from too much heat, but,i still like it better than cold...

augustus, there were some sub saharan african kingdoms that were on the par with other civilisations before columbus discovered the americas. they contributed heavily to capturing slaves for the arabs then the europeans. the european couldnt go in land back then because of disease

by the way, what do you think of cocaine / nicotine mummies in egypt in phorohs times ? those plants are from south america, these are proven facts...how did they get there?

why do the pyramids of egypt have a lot of similarities to mexican and south american ruins found with pyramids and very similar advance building techniques and mathamatical alinments with the stars and compass points of north and south on the compass ? much more advanced than civilisation was suposed to have at that time.

what about pre columbus african sculptured heads in indian ruins in mexico ? or sculpures of men with beards long before columbus discovered the americas ?

joao, that drummer is all right, but, talking with him is a bore, he keeps saying they play samba differant in rio than in the south , and his portuguese sometimes strikes me as a bafoonish (ok mine isnt much better, but what a horror to listen to him speak portuguese,butchering that beautiful language on a daily basis)...

i didnt see that young guy in their show in bianco lounge but i saw him at cafe de la musique...he really has something going doing a mixture of james brown and chico science but in original material. he has a great afro brazilian dancer with him and sometimes uses break dancers and passistas...

joao, that drummer is all right, but, talking with him is a bore, he keeps saying they play samba differant in rio than in the south , and his portuguese sometimes strikes me as a bafoonish (ok mine isnt much better, but what a horror to listen to him speak portuguese,butchering that beautiful language on a daily basis)..

Hey, ASP, you are too harsh on the Drummer and lately I have started observing that the weather is affecting your brain and judgment. Granted that he doesn't speak Portuguese with the upper class Lisbon accent like (probably) Lord Augustus does. But I had no problem at all in understanding him. Of course, the Afro-Brasilian dancer´s English is far better than the Portuguese spoken by the Drummer! BUT...BUT..., the music has no language barriers.

As for the questions you addressed to Lord Augustus, I await his explanations. Hope he doesn't go into a long rant, though.

Naturally I'm aware of such (sub-Saharan) kingdoms and many others where "basic, early" civilizations EMERGED. In order for ANY civilization to EMERGE, they must be located in areas with warm/hot weather conditions.
My premise was that in order for those civilizations to ADVANCE beyond feudal forms of government (and its limited technology), their culture must MOVE into other areas outside the tropical zone.

im curious about your opinion about the cocaine / nicotine mummies and the advanced building techniques and mathamatical and astronimical inteligence shown by these civilizations that are not recognised by regular historians...and that they are similar in south america to egypt

the african sculptured heads in pre columbus mexico...the sculpures of men with beards long before columbus arrived

the geological signs of the sphinx that indicate it may have been built much earliar than historians think, like around 10,000 bc when egypt actualy had rain and floods...

and , ancient india documents that indicate they knew how to build flying machines. there are many pages with extensive details about how to build them....

im asking you based on your very large knowledge of histroy. im wondering if you have any opinion on these anomolies?

joao, i was probably too hasty to judge that drummer. maybe im just jealous because ive seen him working with passistas with their naked breasts hanging out...that lucky sob..

from the 15th century turkish navigator who made some maps based on many ancient maps that actualy show a land configuration of antartica that is now under tons of ice and only was discoverd by modern day army technicians as to deterine the contors of the land. they said that the comparison to the peri reis maps was astounding !!!

and ,augustus, the peri reis maps...

Where did you read that, ASP? Believe it or not, your questions to Augustus about ancient civilizations aroused my curiosity too.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, the current continents, climate, angle of the planet's shift, and magnetic alignment have NOT always been the way we know. As such the change of any of the above factors, let alone many or all of them (since each change does not occur with the same speed, and therefore not at the same time) will full impact the climate which may existed at the location where a current ANCIENT monument was found. Therefore, my entire premise (the very point I was making) could not apply to any such structure.

Starting with continental shifts and the impact of moving glaciers as several ace ages came and went (and during which huge amounts of rocks were transported and entire lakes were carved - e.g. great lakes), while I do not think this very slow change would have impacted human civilizations, they certainly influenced the spread of humanity (as we know it since it evolved about 150-200,000 years ago), along with one or 2 ice ages which took place since we (homo sapiens) have been on the top of the food chain. According to latest scientific findings, it appears that the main impact of these two combined factors vis-à-vis the spread of our kind through the continents emerged during the incept of the last ice age, when the volume of water in the oceans decreased (thereby increasing the number of islands across all oceans, making it feasible for our ancestors to make the journey island hopping, AND the huge Siberia-Alaska bridge which, during the last ice age permitted several groups to migrate from Asia to the Americas. This migration, used to be the only one seriously considered. However, there appears to have been island hoping migration from Polynesia to the Americas through the Pacific, as well as some migration from Europe through the Atlantic (the evidence being the findings of specific Arrow tops (similarities between Neolithic tribes in Maryland and those of Neolithic groups in France and Britain - which at that time were also connected).

With that said, because scientific data (carbon, and others) indicate that the Sphinx was actually 15,000 years old, it is CLEAR that it must have been built during the time of the last ice age, when the Sahara was not a desert, and most likely resembled southern Europe - climate wise _today. In addition, there are speculations that such structure was built by a PREVIOUS civilization that existed on Earth BEFORE the time when our (known) history started being recorded. A civilization so ancient that not only we do not know anything about it (except for a few monuments such as the sphinx, and perhaps also structures which appear to have been made and currently lie at the bottom of the Atlantic ocean), but also we have no idea what Earth was like at that time. Once think is certain, the Sphinx was not built in a hot desert condition, thereby removing it from the analytical framework of my original premise, which NOT ONLY takes into account Earth's climate as we know today, but also that I was SPECIFICALLY referring to the LAST 500 YEARS, not to mention that I was also repeatedly making reference to ADVANCE technology, which appears to be lost in most of your arguments (I suppose your bias precludes you from grasping what I'm SPECIFICALLY trying to determine - and that there is no HINT of racial considerations in connections with my argument.
(Part -2 will have to follow later)

During ASP last messages, two fundamental points were stressed: the Sphinx (outlined under the previous entry in greater detail, and the Mysterious 15th Century maps, which one now believe to be copies of much earlier maps of unknown origins.

Clearly no civilization on Earth during the 15th Century was aware of the Americas (let alone the perfectly outline South American Atlantic coast, let alone Antarctica. As such, as suggested above, some Scholars of various disciplines speculate (as implied above), that they were made on the basis of much older ancient maps. Yet, according to our known 8,000 year old history which started in Sumer, Egypt, and China (almost simultaneously and independently of one another) between 5,000 & 6,000 B.C (give and take half a millennia), our (known) ancestors were NOT aware of the Americas and certainly not of Antarctica. In addition, recently emerged findings in Bolivia appear to indicate the existence of a far more ancient civilization there from about the same ancient time periods (circa 5,000 & 6,000 BC) and who were the ultimate ancestors of the OLMECS, who in turn preceded all other American Civilizations (ranging from Incas, Mayans and Aztecs).

Unquestionably, the pyramidal structures shockingly shared by all of these civilizations (as well as to another one, their contemporary group of Thailand & Cambodia), along with the fact that such structures, in addition to the sophistication required for their planning, design & construction, were also placed in strategic locations, which have some type of relation to one another (the details of which now unfortunately escape me), while each one being placed in accordance with specific Astronomical considerations (groups of local structures were build in exact proportion of given groups of stars AS OBSERVED at the time they were built.
(part-3 to follow)

In view of the above (the contents of part-1 & part-2), my conclusions echo the speculations of some scholars and/or scientists. In essence, I truly believe there are two possible explanations (which might, COMBINED, consist on yet a third possibility:
1.Either a highly global civilization (a bit less technologically advanced but quite sophisticated – possibly with the same level of our Nineteenth century) has previously existed on Earth until about 16-15,000 years ago, and was completely destroyed as a result of a MAJOR cataclysmic event (possibly a shift of the planet’s axis ALONG with a coincidental shift of the magnetic NORTH-SOUTH orientation), whereby several hundred million (perhaps billions OF individuals) perished (FURTHER EXPLANING why our diversity in DNA variation – based on mitochondrial considerations – is too limited). The impact of such devastation would have been so colossal – e.g. parts of the surface was submerged and several submerged sections emerged to the surface – and given their limited technological level of advance, the few survivors were not sufficient to preserve the knowledge and rebuilt the achievements of their predecessors, with the exceptions of a few monuments, a couple of maps/manuscripts (some of which – incidentally may have survived and later stored at the Library of Alexandria, which was burned by the Romans 2,000 years ago). Some of these survivors may also have been the source, by word of mouth (from generation to generation), of legends such as mythical Atlantis…
2.The other possibility is far more controversial, and could in fact perhaps SUPPLEMENT the previous one. Many individuals (myself included) fully believe in the existence of life in other words (orbiting distance start systems within this and possibly every other galaxy). While I would strongly disagree with some popular science fiction stories suggesting the existing of a huge number of highly sophisticated civilizations, for I consider unlikely that life just springs about anywhere and very easily, but rather in only a few world where a set of conditions (which are not necessarily like ours) conduced to an equilibrium that permitted life. Even fewer of these words will developed species which will eventually evolve into self-awareness, and even fewer of those will reach technologies which will take them to stars (before they explode themselves in self-annihilating planetary conflicts). In short, there are likely to be just a very small number of extremely advanced civilizations and some of these are likely to have found us and profoundly influenced our ancestors at a certain given period of time (e.g. building of pyramids by a bunch of primitives being everywhere on a world which is not GLOBAL). Consequently, I deem very possible (if not likely) that our ancestors were not only visited but also manipulated; and for these conjecture, I use the pyramids again, along with the similar belief of “human-like” gods who visited Greece, Babylon and Scandinavia, along with reports of Stars with flying people which range from India to Palestine.

On a final note, ASP, these are the explanations for your many points, which DO NOT influence my conclusions on CLIMATE DETERMINATION which I fully maintain. Yet, I will always delighted to argue about the fascinating topics which you have cleverly brought to our attention and which shall unfortunately remain the source of WONDER, SPECULATION, and SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.

Gentlemen,

I must compliment you both for, ASP asked some thought provoking and intelligent questions and Augustus came out with equally brilliant explanations. I would not consider it as a debate, but an intelligent discussion between two well informed and curious persons.

What Augustus has written makes lots of sense. I belong to the group that believes in the mixture of items 1) & 2) of Part 3 written by Lord Augustus. IMHO, that answers many of the questions raised by our esteemed fellow blogger ASP.

I take the liberty of slightly correcting Augustus´s closing statement:

Yet, I will always delighted to argue about the fascinating topics which you have cleverly brought to our attention and which shall unfortunately remain the source of WONDER, SPECULATION, and SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.

"Fascinating topics which you cleverly brought to our attention and which shall fortunately remain the source of..........".

Unless sources of curiosity, wonder and speculation exist, there is no SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH!!!

im not disagreeing with your first premise, i just couldnt help tapping into your knowledge to hear what you have to say about my other points...you didnt disapoint

....joao, i saw a docu on channal 4 about theories augustus is talking about. they were infering atlantis may have been antartica before the pole shift augustus mentioned...the thing i mentioned were the facts that cant be refuted...like cocaine nicotine mummies and african sculptured heads in mexico. since the docu ive been absorved in reseaching some of the things.

here is some more to ponder from that docu

in a place called bear island north of siberia, a person found out that the sand and reefs were totaly held together by animal bones and tusks. and they found a mammouth with tropical plants digesting in its stomach...in super cold bear island near siberia

and, in the perma frost in alaska and sibera, there are massive graves of animals from the era of about 12,000 bc and from about 55,0000 bc....i mean millions of them, and they look all twisted and violently tangled together. also at the la brea tar pits. i used to think they were animals spread apart in small numbers but i saw a picture of several yards of earth excavated , and , they were definitly violently tangled up in contorted positions and broken up...the truth is , it reminded me of just recently seeing a huge amount of jelly fish washed in by big ressaca waves . there were masses of them and they were all washed up together and torn and twisted up...quite a sight and it reminded me of this picture at la brea tar pits...

there are people who suggest earth crust displacement, which einstein was actualy fascinated with and mentioned it could happen from the ice building up on the north poll, coming down into the great lakes unbalencingly and causing it to tork ,shifting like the peel of an orange shifting from the fruit...

now, when they did a tremendous experiment recently , they took some ice from greenland or iceland that they could go back thousands and thousands of years. around 12,000 ago, they found a small 5 year period that proved there was a dramtic climite change unlike any other they could see with volcanic ash and other things indicating that there was an incredible disruption of climate at this time.

then there are the old text from india 17 ,000 years ago about flying machines with detailed information about them and how to fly them and build them using mercury fuel...something nasa is researching now !!

all this information and more blows my mind and is contrary to all they have taught us about history. i cant dismiss these things , lots of them are blatent facts...

Thank ASP for the additional information
Based upon your supplementary data, I’m now convinced that a Pole shift happened circa 13-12,000 years ago.

I have never read about the flying machine – 19,000 years old – in India. Such evidence appears to indicate that my expectation that the previous civilization had been just about with 19th century technology to be inaccurate. Indeed, if they used a flying machine using mercury fuel, it appears they were at our current level – if not a bit ahead of ours.

I also know very little about the “crust displacement” event – which would surely represent yet another catastrophic event, I’ve only once run into the issue, but did not get details

ASP-in case you have any info about the flying machine and /or “crust displacement”, I would appreciate if you could provide the info (either here or through Joao)?

On a final note… According to various sources, and although I’m always dismissive about “upcoming end or the world” popular discussions (even though I am certain that another catastrophic event is bound to happen – given the various types available), some believe that 2012 will be one of those years…. It’s possible that our solar system will be again at the same “galactic location” vis-à-vis the center of the galaxy when it was about 15-16,000 years ago….

ASP-in case you have any info about the flying machine and /or “crust displacement”, I would appreciate if you could provide the info (either here or through Joao)?

Though I have been a mere observer in your exchange of comments on the current topic under discussion, I was taken aback when our esteemed ASP mentioned about this Indian flying machine. This is the second time I have heard about it, the first time being years ago from an ex-colleague who studied at ITA!! By coincidence, a couple of days ago, I read that an American Air Force Colonel who was based in England reported sighting an UFO in 1985 or so and his report was shelved and only this week it was released for the public. That reminded me of Brasilian Newspaper reports years ago that our Col.Ozires Silva (ex FAB, Ex-President of EMBRAER) spotted an UFO in 1986 while flying a Xingu Turboprop plane.

As for the Indian Flying machine, it is quite possible that your Indian friends in your Bangalore office may shed some light over this. NASA experimenting with Mercury Fuel? Isn't that interesting? One thing I know through my friends who have visited that sub continent is that the ancient Indus Valley civilization designated all sources of energy as Gods and worshiped them! The language they used to communicate was "Sanskrit" and probably the info on the machine is stored somewhere in some form in that language!!

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm

Thanks for the link. Recently we had a visitor from "Down Under" who has traveled extensively all over the world including the regions mentioned in the link (Bali, Sri Lanka, India, Easter Island, Polynesia, Peru, etc. He confirmed many of the things cited in the article. This guy makes documentary films. In fact, I wanted to take him to the "Fortress" of yours. As you know, unfortunately, we had just three days of sunshine during his 3 weeks stay!!! BTW, he is a big fan of "Orfeu Negro".

http://www.skrause.org/writing..._ecd.shtml

i want to know, if i see things that are fairy tails, i dont fall for them. what is blowing my mind are the facts behind some of the theories that cant be explained away.

i may not beleive whole heartedly in atlantis, but, the peri reis maps are incredible in what they implicate and it is a fact...

the african sculptured heads in pre colobus mexico are a fact...

cocaine nicotine mummies in phorohs time is a fact...

etc etc...this hapgood theory can explain a whole lot of phenominons that happened in 10,000 bc...

ASP - DO NOT QUESTION THESE EVENTS, THEY DID OCCUR MANY TIMES BEFORE!!!
THE EARTH CRUST DISPLACEMENT IS JUST ONE OF THEM...
For your convenience I took the liberty to copy and past an entry (which JOAO has already seen before) while talking to another intersting blogger... I'm glad to have found them for you:

1) Super volcano explosion - whose devastation would instantly destroy an entire continent and generate conditions similar to a "nuclear winter" for the remaining regios of the world. These are less common, but the most famous are: a) the entire regions where Nevada, Utah and perhaps Arizona sits upon one of those; b) The entire archipelago of Indonesia, which includes the Krakatoa volcano - between Java & Sumatra); c) the main one - super volcano located in Siberia which has not been active for 250 million years - which, when last exploded devastated an area the size of continental US... AND triggered the Pre-Cambrian extinction I mentioned before.

2) Magnetic shift - this is clearly under way. In fact, there appears to be a HUGE hole over the South Atlantic, providing indication that a NORTH-SOUTH POLE shift is imminent. In fact, when I first heard of the recent air disaster (referring to the Rio-Paris flight), I contemplated the possibility that whatever made it crash may be related to this “hole”, since the aircraft was clearly flying underneath the area. Indeed, the place may have been hit by “something” - some minor cosmic issue, which may have stricken the aircraft for lack of protection in the area. During the periods of transition, the planet undergoes a period of a few centuries without the protection of the Magnetic field which protects the Earth from the Solar wind and deadly radiation. it also disorients most flying creatures which lose their innate sense of direction.

3) Shift in orbit. Currently (and for the past 200,000 years, the Earh has been on a near perfectly round orbit. Yet science has already revealed that at several times it has shifted to a more elliptic orbit - whose always coinciding with one of the many previous ice ages

4) a change in the inclination of the Planet Axis. A change by just a few angles, would automatically change the surface of the planet, by sending some surface areas under the ocean, and bringing current depths up to the surface again. It is estimated that such an event would automatically kill at least 1/2 of the world’s population.

5) METEOR /COMET STRIKE - several of those have hit the Earth in the past. The only reason there have not been more hits, is because the moon (which is bears tons of scar hits) generally gets stricken by most of them - in addition the existence of Jupiter in a farther orbit, generally deflects them away from the inner planets. In fact Jupiter provided a show to the scientific community in 1994 when it got hit by a huge meteor (and represented, therefore, a wake up call for everyone on Earth.

ASP, SHOULD ONE OF THOSE EVER OCCUR IN OUR GALAXY, ONLY BACTERIA LIVING DEEP MIGHT SURVIVE... ALL OF THOSE DETECTED SO FAR OCCURED IN FAR AWAY GALAXIES

Gamma-Ray Bursts - These are basically are immense explosions which give birth to beams of gamma radiation travelling at a velocity close to the speed of light, and thus, hey tend to reach billions of light-years into space, compared to stars which usually possess a magnitude of 10's of light years. We have been monitoring their progress using satellites for 50 years but their chaotic and highly sophisticated light patterns are to this day not understood. There are two derivatives; Long Gamma-Ray Bursts, which last from 3-30 seconds and are thought to only occur in areas of the universe where metallic mass is scarce (the Milky Way fortunately being rich in metals) and Short Gamma-Ray Bursts which last from one tenth of a millisecond – 3 seconds. They don’t seem to share ‘metaliphobia.’ IF one of these bursts happened to occur as close as 1 kiloparsec, then effects would be catastrophic destroying half of the world's ozone.

always interesting to hear about these things people dont talk about in every day news

i am just blown away by some facts that definitly happened that they didnt tell us about in school. we should know about these other anomolies

Lets raid another boring thread to continue this interesting discussion.

I believe Brazil knows which direction to take!

So... Why is Brazil taking so long to take the first step?
As I learned in engineering school, the person who can best describe the problem is the one who is most likely to solve the problem. Brazil knows where its is and knows where it wants to be, the question now becomes how to get there!...?

The Problems
-Many political leaders and "decision making people" have little to NO education. They run the country not by logic but by how much money will go in their pocket. They are easily bribed to think the way of the briber. (most of these people are from northern Brazil)
-No motivation for higher education. (Lula brags "Look at me I didnt even go to school and Im the president")
-Lack of tools for the youth. By "tools" I mean facilities, teachers, access to computer & fast internet, (housing, food & financial aid for the poor who are interested in school)

I believe these are the main problems to focus on! Addressing these problems will have a domino effect and the rest of the problems will work itself out.
If the media can create a Obama like effect for the few educated political leaders; These problems will be aggressively tackled.