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For Brazil Olympics Will Be a Brief Distraction. The Crooks Will Never Leave PDF Print E-mail
2009 - October 2009
Written by Carmen Joy King   
Tuesday, 06 October 2009 16:40

Favela in Rio, BrazilYes, ladies and gentlemen, the great Gods of International Sport have deemed Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, worthy of its finest competition: the 2016 Summer Olympics. I want to be excited about this; even the most cynical of persons will sprout a few goosebumps while watching jubilant crowds roar for their city's "victory". But when the crowds part, the beach is emptied, the police go back to their posts, the robbers and slum-dwellers return and the politicians down the last few gulps of congratulatory champagne...what then?

Eduardo J. Gomez of Foreign Policy magazine reported this today: "International sports tend to mirror politics. Today's decision will reveal, yet again, that Brazil is an emerging power, and that it has the talent, infrastructural capacity, and political commitment needed to play competitively in global political (and athletic) games."

In reference to US hopes that Brazil might take the reins as the new leader in South America, Carlos Alberto Montaner of The Miami Herald recently said this:

"Brazil is the size of the United States, with a population of 200 million, and has certain partially developed zones, such as São Paulo. But it is far from being a regional power. It has one of the world's most unequal distributions of income...(). Brazil's level of corruption - 3.5, according to Transparency International - is shameful and worse than that of several African countries.

"It pretends it's important, yes, but doesn't assume international responsibilities. None of this means that Brazil is not a pleasant and amusing place to live, a lot nicer than many Spanish-American countries, but it does mean that you can't get apples from an orange tree."

During my short stint here, I've had the privilege of interviewing (teaching English to) several different high powered executives i.e. bankers, real estate managers, sales directors, etc., and many will say this on the current situation here in Brazil: "We have a ways to go..." And they sit in my classroom learning English in order to expedite the process of getting to that place they feel is in their not-so-distant future.

A "First World" kind of place. A kind of place that doesn't look like the Rio de Janeiro of today: a place that might kill you if you're in the path of a stray bullet, a place where 30% of the population is very poor, a place that promises "investment in the nation" as President Lula stated this morning on Brazilian radio, but delivers a lot of hot air.

During the 2007 Pan American games, 20,000 police officers were deployed in Rio. The morning of the opening ceremonies, a stray bullet killed a 16-year-old boy as he cooked breakfast in his home and the tight security around the stadium meant that many fans could not get to the ceremonies on time.

It was rumored that Brazilian authorities orchestrated deals with drug dealers and slumlords to cease violence and theft during the games and those that could not be persuaded financially were dealt with otherwise. In one crackdown, nineteen people were killed. That was two years ago and the final bill for those games was a measly US$ 4 billion compared with the projected US$ 15 billion for the 2016 Olympics.

I don't watch the Olympic games and not because I'm against them per se, but because they don't interest me. They're too big, too corporate and too slick; I get distracted by all the branding. But Brazilians are bona fide sports addicts and I have not passed a bar - juice, beer or otherwise - where a sport wasn't blaring on a TV; soccer-talk being the male conversation topic of choice therein and F1 coming in at a close second.

It's a big country and a few things can unite it like a futebol game, but the reality is that games also act as distractions, as do the big parties that Brazilians are famous for. It could be said that the poorest nations in the world also know how to party the hardest. This is certainly true for Brazil.

The brief distraction and glory that the Olympics can provide is no respite from the reality that millions of hardworking Brazilians face and will continue to face once the games have come and gone. There are no government watchdogs here, no safety nets, and absolutely no serious investment in health and education: the latter two being pillars of a strong, powerful, healthy society.

There's a two-tier health care system that rewards doctors for going to private hospitals and pays public doctors to get patients in and out without looking them in the eye. There's an education system so poor, it forces middle class and upper class parents to fork over thousands of reais to private institutions.

President Lula claims to represent the poor but the funding sanctioned for his benevolent programs mostly land in pockets of politicians and sycophants and are supported by the over-strapped, highly taxed middle class. And Brazil is killing its middle class; its lifeblood.

OK yes, I can see the upside of hosting a gigantic sporting event in a sport-crazed country and bringing some attention down south, but you can be sure that the real face of Rio will get nothing more than a temporary lift: tear down favelas (slums), lock up the thieves, pay the slumlords to put away their guns, bust out the Carnaval costumes, build some trains, force drivers to stay home, and when the world's eyes are looking the other way, the crooked leaders and corrupt bureaucrats will return to business as usual with a massive deficit on their hands and slums to re-build all on the taxpayers bill.

But what do I know? Honestly. Maybe this is Brazil's chance to "invest in itself"; I really hope that's the case. I'd love to see this wonderful orange tree start growing some healthy apples.

Carmen King is a freelance writer and Canadian expat living in São Paulo. You can read more by her here: http://thenewbrooklin.blogspot.com/



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Comments (54)Add Comment
yeah, what do you know, that was one cynical article...
written by asp, October 06, 2009
its so easy to look at a cities hemmoroids and think everything is bad...

who ever said winning the olympics meant a city is going to have a squeaky clean , everything is rosey, gleam...

i prefer to get my opinions from cariocas about whether they are happy or not about the olympics coming
...
written by CARLOSa, October 06, 2009
I sympathize with a lot on this article. My very first reaction was of joy; as a brazilian and half-carioca sport lover i am totally thrilled! But then reality sunk in: corruption, crime, infrastructure, typical brazilian procrastination... can we overcome and fix all that (at least fix it enough) to not just "mask" those problems from the world when it's time to have the games in Rio? I truly hope so and it's up to all Brazilians, in Brazil and those living abroad, to keep an eye on the organizers and the government to do a diligent, clean job and use this honor to catapult us to the next level! (remember it's an honor to hold the games, not a right, and many that used that honor the right way in the past have seen so many good things happen to them: think seoul and barcelona!).
...
written by João da Silva, October 06, 2009
An extremely well written article on the Olympic games of 2016 from the point of view of an expat Canadianliving in SP. Ms.King, to certain extent, has the authority to question about the " economic benefits" the "Games" are supposed bring to a city or country. Jean Drapeu, the Mayor of Montreal fought to bring the games to his city in 1976 and Montreal obtained loans to finance the event.It took 30 years to pay back the loan (2006). The same story with the Sydney Olympics too.

As for the comment of our distinguished fellow blogger ASP:

i prefer to get my opinions from cariocas about whether they are happy or not about the Olympics coming


Some Cariocas might be happy and some may not, ASP. But...But... remember what the Governor of RJ said. He promised financial support from three governments: Federal, State and Municipal. That means whether you live in Rio or elsewhere, you still get to foot the bill. So the writer is correct when she said:

President Lula claims to represent the poor but the funding sanctioned for his benevolent programs mostly land in pockets of politicians and sycophants and are supported by the over-strapped, highly taxed middle class. And Brazil is killing its middle class; its lifeblood.


Yes, Brasil is indeed killing its middle class and I thank the author for expressing her solidarity with the "dying ones".




shoot, joao, we have heard this various times from ch c already...
written by asp, October 06, 2009
its not like anyone on here hasnt heard variations on this stuff many times over....kudos to ch c for beating her to it...

what the heck, im exited,im exited because the pan am games had elza soares and spok frevo in the ceramonies , i can only hope they will duplicate that again. if not i will be disapointed..

im exited for the inspiration its going to bring to thousands of young atheletes in their young teens now , and the few that aceive high goals and will be competing in these games

im exited that,inspite of the rip offs and costs, something will seep through to make cariocas lives a little better, a litle safer even if for just a minute

if we are paying for it , those of us living in brazil, great, its going to be some perked up tv for a minute and hopefully more coverage of the games than normal

joao, the olympics are great for brazil and rio just like the world cup will be...im looking forward to both and im looking forward to passing through rio as much as i can in the next 7 years...but, probably not at the olympics or world cup....ahhhhhh
...
written by Charles Scott, October 06, 2009
When I first found out Brasil had won the right to host the olympics, I was very happy for the people of Brasil. Having attended several olympic ceremonies. I have no doubt that the olympics in Rio will be something to behold. Having said that, my thoughts wandered to the treatment of the poor and the Blacks in Brasil. Will this be a good thing for them? Having pondered this for while. I reached the conclusion that even the poor and the Blacks will benefit in the sense that the Black Brazillians will be forced to wake up when they interact with Blacks from other countries. I for one have never really been able to put my finger on the reason why the Blacks in Brazil tolerate the crap that is thrown their way. That being said, congratulations to Rio. I hope this will bring change.
just dont know
written by Forrest Allen Brown, October 06, 2009
will brazil be ablet to spend the 16 billion they said they would
will they go to the IMF or other places to get the funds to build the games .

Will the ganges and crooks hold back on targeting tourtist or will they be open game ,

will the police help the tourtist or themselves to there money .

will the public transportation drivers learn different languages and not over charge .

will they take the time to print signs in different languages

will the poor and blacks in brazil use the games to bring forth the lack of human rights in brazil

will the goverment stop all or most of the prostitution in the game zone .

will they be able to stop the druge dealers from selling in full view

will brazil be able to just pull it off and pay for it not just like they did with the panam games

the world is watching brazil
asp
written by João da Silva, October 07, 2009
shoot, joao, we have heard this various times from ch c already...


joao, the olympics are great for brazil and rio just like the world cup will be...im looking forward to both and im looking forward to passing through rio as much as i can in the next 7 years...but, probably not at the olympics or world cup....ahhhhhh


ASP, my friend, I acknowledge your love for Brasil in general and specifically for Rio and I do appreciate it. People like you are assets to Brasil for you help building friendship between the two countries. I have always pointed out that it is one of your many laudable qualities.But...But.... I am afraid that your reactions are more emotional than rational in this instance.

People like ch.c, Ricardo Amaral, Augustus, Forrest,Lloyd, Vinny etc; are rational and work with numbers. Cost/Benefit for the country, state, municipality and finally to our pockets. However, all of them are either Americans or "Ameri-Brasilians" or "infamously neutral" like ch.c.

Of course, the above mentioned friends do not belong to the middle class, but...but.. to the upper crust of the society and don't have to pay the "Contribução Provisório..." to make the "Olympiáda" of 2016 a great success, since they all live outside our beloved "Patria" or if at all they file Income Tax Returns here, they can evade the taxes (or avoid them).

This is the first time a "Gringa" has written an article in this respectable magazine defending the "Dying Brasilian Middle Class". For that I salute her, in spite of her being a Canadian. The Americans, Ameri-Brasilians and the "Neutral Swiss" should follow my example and salute her too.

Mark my words for future reference, my friend (2011) and tell me how you feel about these "Contribuções" smilies/angry.gif
To Charles Scott
written by Brazuca, October 07, 2009
Why not just call them poor? Why colorize them? The poor are not only one color over here. The poor are poor. Let's leave it at that without bringing the American obsession with people's skin color into it. No need to start dividing people according to color, as the Americans are so fond of doing. Brazil is happily devoid of the cursed racial division of America. Why Americans wish to infect others with this disease, I don't know!
Brazuca
written by João da Silva, October 07, 2009
Why not just call them poor? Why colorize them? The poor are not only one color over here. The poor are poor. Let's leave it at that without bringing the American obsession with people's skin color into it. No need to start dividing people according to color, as the Americans are so fond of doing. Brazil is happily devoid of the cursed racial division of America. Why Americans wish to infect others with this disease, I don't know!


Great comments, sir. Spoke like a real Ozzie and my salute to you too! smilies/wink.gif
gee forrest, please dont stop the prostitution during the olympics....
written by asp, October 07, 2009
that is going to be the real 100 yard dash for the green...

i dont know, joao, cost benafit ,country , state , municiple...you are right , im visceral and hedonistic...

but, when i came to brazil and rio for the first time, it was unbeleivable, rio is unbeleivable, with a cultur and deep cultural history, and pace and soul that just rivits your sences and makes the hair stand up on the back of your head and gives you goose bumps...

after i was there and seeing the incredible bateria, music and musicians, dances and sensuality, i started to really get angry at the world wide corporate media entertainment industry for not ever really showing us that this existed...and it was so powerful... i really resented that and i still do...they feed us such mediocrity and crap and try to make it legends, it makes me vomit, but here was fire and soul an immediate inspriation just dripping around the corner...

if the olympics can just get across a sliver of that in the international coverage, its going to give millions of people a small slice of some special kind of magic , and it will pay big divedends to brazils image and give it credibility and cause great curiosity and respect for the culture...of course if im not the director they are going to probably blow it, because i would know how to do it...i would know how to really show rio and what it has...("take one at sobre das ondas....")
Forrest
written by João da Silva, October 07, 2009
will brazil be ablet to spend the 16 billion they said they would


Hey Forrest, you been drinking cold ones lately? The latest estimate from the "Ministry of Sports" (I cant figure out why we have such a ministry) is 90 Billions. Of course, for wealthy folks, 16 or 90 doesn't make any difference. The least you can do for the "Dying Middle class" is to express your condolences.

I am ashamed that our regular fellow bloggers (Brasilians or otherwise) haven't expressed a single word of solidarity with this voiceless segment of the society. smilies/sad.gif
Nice, but...
written by jakob, October 07, 2009
Yes, the Games will brings some (no matter how small) improvement to Rio, but what's the use?

That sea of cheap bricks in Zona Norte will stay there, continuing to generate misery, and terror. Some 900 favelas on top of the hills around Rio will stay there too.

An ordinary Joao will stay an ordinary Joao - he won't suddenly be able to design the latest microprocessor, or develop a new drug just because of the Games.

No, the Games will pass, and Joao will be back to his job of a simple zelador or funcionario, struggling to buy a PC (containing a chip developed by an Asian) for his kids, or buying a generic drug developed by a Brazilian company but whose formula has been lifted from an American company.

Oh and yes, assassins, kidnappers and torturers will be back to their jobs as well, continuing to make life unbearable in Rio, or any other city in Brazil. Back to business as usual.

I would like so much the reality to be different, and would like for Brazil to be really compatible with her motto (ORDEM E PROGRESSO), but we all know what the reality is, don't we: DISORDEM, CHAOS, TEROR, CRIME E CORRUPCAO.

Depressing, that.
JOAO
written by Forrest Allen Brown, October 07, 2009
read a note in a blpg the other day saying that in brazil there were 86 compaines making bullet proof cars for the public to use .

so the middle class will be safe driving down the road.

if the brazilian politicans and people would get behing education and minium wage law like they did the games than brazil would step foward .

not much from mr Z just whine to all but most countries beleive the congress of hounduras was right to remove him , the point they have a hard time with is sending him out of his country

but the elections will go on in november
now if hillery will get that poll out of her ass and let the US recnoize it is a different matter.
Jakob
written by João da Silva, October 07, 2009
An ordinary Joao will stay an ordinary Joao - he won't suddenly be able to design the latest microprocessor, or develop a new drug just because of the Games.

No, the Games will pass, and Joao will be back to his job of a simple zelador or funcionario, struggling to buy a PC (containing a chip developed by an Asian) for his kids, or buying a generic drug developed by a Brazilian company but whose formula has been lifted from an American company.


On behalf all the Joãos, this João thanks you for your continued support to our cause, Jakob.This is the first time someone has raised the plight of the "Zelador","Porteiro" and similar hard working professionals. smilies/wink.gif

Talking about a Zelador buying a PC, it is something I have been questioning for quite a few months. While the government has reduced the IPI (Federal Tax) to stimulate the sales of cars, White consumer goods, it hasn't done the same for PCs, Software and other important products that are related to "Knowledge Economy".
think seoul and barcelona ?
written by ch.c., October 07, 2009
Ohhhh yesssss, but as the article stated it is just for short moment !

Spain has about 20 % unemployment rate !!!!!!

And were the games not in Los Angeles once ?

Believing the games have positive only long term effects as we have read so many times not only in the past but also recently with the Rio saga....is somewhat just an heresy !

Most of the times what remains after the games are.....THE DEBTS, and unused infrastructuressss !

Anyway, enjoy the games and their related DEBTS !
After euphoria always comes the cost of the hangover.
Reality will always surface sooner or later.



smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
ch.c
written by João da Silva, October 07, 2009
Spain has about 20 % unemployment rate !!!!!!


A good reminder. It slipped out of my mind. As the article said and you agreed, such events generate temporary jobs in a limited sectors of economy but the benefits are ephemeral. In the sister magazine www.brazzilmag.com, our distinguished fellow bloggers DnB, Lloyd Cata, Vinny, Forrest and many others have come ourt with comments that confirm this.

I am glad you commented here, but....but....a bit upset that you didn't express your solidarity with all the good Joãos like Jakob did. smilies/cry.gif
Forrest
written by João da Silva, October 07, 2009
not much from mr Z just whine to all but most countries beleive the congress of hounduras was right to remove him , the point they have a hard time with is sending him out of his country


Mr.Z is occupying the office of our ambassador in the embassy, Forrest. The rumor goes that he has been provided with a queen sized bed and in spite of it, he is unable to sleep well, because of the High Frequency Noise making devices the Mossad has supplied to the Honduran Army. It is a pity that the poor guy is being harassed by agents of various countries.

The only solution I see is to give instant citizenship to Mr.Z and make him our ambassador there, provided PBO doesn't object. smilies/wink.gif
Response to Brazuca
written by Charles Scott, October 08, 2009
As a tall six foot two Black man, I guess I have to be concerned when I see majority of the people with the same skin tone I have being relegated to a second class status. I experienced discrimination first hand in my many interactions with everyday Brazillians that immediately evaporated once I moved from Portuguese to English and they realised I was a foreigner. Yes, there are many poor non Blacks in Brasil, but majority of the Blacks I came across were uneducated and poor. Ignoring that fact is tantamount to putting your head in the sand. Acknowledge racism and you can do something about it, but you want to ignore it and claim it does not exist because it makes you feel better. Asking for better treatment of a subjugated people is not an obsession, it is about fairness.
Rio de Janeiro - Capital of the Kingdom Self-Delusion // BRAZUCA & CHARLES SCOTT are correct
written by Augustus, October 08, 2009
The scenario described by Carmen Joy King (the main author) is quite realistic, and her views were greatly enhanced by Charles Scott. While I was elated when I witness the emotion of the announcement (especially because I happened to be there), my excessive REALISM immediately reminded that the Olympics are going to be nothing but a DREAM for Cariocas (the people of Rio) to "play first world" for a few weeks, for the crooks, criminals will UNDOUBTEDLY return, along with crime, and the horrific frustration and helplessness which constitute the daily life of the average Carioca bread-winner...

Yet, Brazuca is also correct because, although anyone claiming that there is no racism in Brazil would be either an idealist or a hypocrite liar, one must also admit that such racism is far from blunt and exists as a residue from the time of Slavery (abolished only in 188smilies/cool.gif. The crux of the issue, as Brazuca implied is that black, white, and brown Brazilians, with little or no education, live side by side sharing injustice, discrimination, and abuse on a daily basis... but not because they are black... Rather, their discriminated status springs from their poverty and the resulting lower class to which they are confined, regardless of race; for they are absolutely "nothing" in the eyes of the elite... never acknowledged, or even spoken to...

Will the Olympics change any of that?
I HIGHLY DOUBT IT...Unfortunately
Joao .....
written by ch.c., October 08, 2009
Sorry but I clearly stated in another thread ...Congrats You Won...it is better than nothing !

on your "the above mentioned friends do not belong to the middle class, but...but.. 2
- sorry but my father was a low blue collar worker !

And pleasssse Joao....NEVER EVER associates me again with Ricardo Amaral !I spit on him ! He is exactly the Brazilian I hate deeply.

It is his dynasty, with many others, who are responsible of Brazil been pillaged for centuries. Has he not even said....Sarney my good old friend ??????
It is these dynasties that Brazil must get rid of !
These dynasties are responsible for the Brazil minority elite class, lack of education to ALL, lack of healthcare to ALL, lack of infrastructure, corruptions practices, high poverty rate.


It just amaze me how the average brazilian tolerate such a high poverty rate in a country with an acceptable GDP per capita.
Fact being that
- Brazil has a much higher poverty rate than many countries...POORER THAN BRAZIL !
- Brazil has a lower overall education system than many POORER countries.
- Brazil has a lower healthcare system than many POORER countries.
- Brazil has a MUCH lower rate of paved roads than many POORER countries.

And Brazilians continue to elect the same type of people supposed to defend LESS INEQUALITY, one of the World WORST...as per the stats !

Burn them or hang them all...these dynasties !

Or to be more nice, put them in the center of the Amazon.....with a Small Swiss Army Knife that wont rust or break, so that they have a change to survive ! smilies/grin.gif
But dont forget to emasculate them first, so that they cant reproduce themselves with monkeys. Otherwise it may get worse over the futures generations. smilies/grin.gif
ch.c
written by João da Silva, October 08, 2009
sorry but my father was a low blue collar worker !


ch.c. You have to learn the difference (in case you haven't done yet) between a "Blue Collar" worker and an ignorant "proletariat" that is being manipulated by the "Feudal Lords". A real blue collar worker knows to "think" and I am sure you dad was one such. When you "think", you get to form your opinion and not carried away by the phony propaganda bombarded on you by the "Media". I don't know if you are aware that the Kirchners want to change the "Communication Laws" like Chavez did.

Do you know that I am in a sort of way, a "blue collar" worker? I love them, because they "think".

BTW, you would be surprised to know that I can still operate a Lathe, Milling Machine,etc; better than certain "individuals" that climbed up the power ladder, by claiming that they are the "defenders" of the proletariat.

A few months ago, our distinguished fellow blogger Forrest forwarded me an e-mail written by an "Ilustre desconhecido" by the name of Gregory Knox. Knox knows how to differentiate between a "Blue Collar worker" and a member of the "ignorant Proletariat". smilies/cheesy.gif
YOU PROVE MY POINT, CHARLES SCOTT!
written by Brazuca, October 09, 2009
I experienced discrimination first hand in my many interactions with everyday Brazillians that immediately evaporated once I moved from Portuguese to English and they realised I was a foreigner.


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once they realized you were American, they changed their attitude about you. That is, they realized you were not poor!

Had your race really been the issue at hand -- had their motivations been racist -- then your speaking English wouldn't have made one iota of different, since a n****r is still a n****r no matter what language he speaks.

Let me give you an example. In Colin Powell's memoirs he relates an incidence where he was driving in the South and was pulled over by a racist cop who racially abused him. (I am relating what I overhead someone else say who'd read the book.) In spite of Colin Powell having been a full colonel at the time (presumably he was in his uniform) this matter made no difference to the racist cop? Why? Because this reality did not change the fact that he was a n****r to this cop -- a n****r dressed in a colonel's uniform, but a n****r none the less. In other words, Colin Powell's class -- the social status he held -- did not alter the estimation in which he was held by a racist. Why? Because with racists, RACE is the issue, not CLASS. A n****r remains a n****r to a racist regardless of whether he has money or not.

When you speak English, people who are liable to make a rather understandable assumption about your class clearly change their attitude once they realize their mistake. You don't become any less "black" because you speak English, just less poor in their eyes. Their assuming your poor is not motivated by malice, or "hate"; just by the historical reality of the country, where there is a general correlation between skin color and poverty.

Besides, such assumptions can easily be controlled by how one dresses and so forth. Most African-Americans I've seen here stand out like a sore thumb; nobody is liable to mistake them for poor favelados. However, recently I was having a snack at the lanchonete on the corner of R. Miguel Lemos and Av NS de Copacabana and there was a bunch of African-Americans greeting and talking with each other in that Ebonics dialect of theirs. All were obviously African-Americans and couldn't possibly be mistaken for anything else. But there was one of them -- I was surprised to see -- who looked and dressed like a veritable favelado -- no, a street bum, since most favelados actually look perfectly fine and respectable, only not expensively dressed, so I apoligize for the way I'm characterizing them. But this guy you'd look at twice before letting him in anywhere. He looked like that rather comical looking guy from that rap or hip hop band from the early 90s; I can't think of his name but recently I caught sight of him on some reality show where he was some time of judge over some girls or something. Anyway, anybody could be forgiven for thinking this guy ought not to be let into anywhere nice. But the other guys were obviously American (all sex tourists, no doubt; I overheard one remark, "We all know what we're here for, huh?" to which they all giggled lightly) whom nobody would mistake for being poor.

So the fact that you say people change their attitude once they hear you speak English proves that RACE was never the issue but rather CLASS, since your speaking English doesn't change anything about your RACE.

Understand?

Besides, using your logic, the Brazilians of Japanese descent are the most racist people here. After all, constituting a meager 1% of the population, they nevertheless reserve a disproportionate 20% of all university positions at the University of Sao Paulo, South America's most prestigious university. Clearly they are discriminating not only against blacks but everyone else, whites included!

So if you're going to tackle racism and inequality in Brazil, start with the Japanese, who oppress all other Brazilians by reserving for themselves a disproportionate percentage of university positions at the prestigious USP.
Brazuca
written by João da Silva, October 09, 2009
So if you're going to tackle racism and inequality in Brazil, start with the Japanese, who oppress all other Brazilians by reserving for themselves a disproportionate percentage of university positions at the prestigious USP.


Sorry,mate. You are absolutely wrong. It is impossible for the Nippo Brasilians to "reserve for themselves a disproportionate percentage of university positions in any Federal or state universities in this country. There is something called "vestibular" (at least until now, though the government is trying to replace it with some other thing) and the entrance is based on performance. The thing is the Nippos came here to toil on the land a hundred years ago, but they gave importance to their children´s education.The second, third and subsequent generations have been prospering because of the value they place on education. Besides, they are very disciplined and family oriented.I have had the pleasure of working with them and they are excellent coworkers and team mates.

BTW, the "Headman" of our Air Force is a Nippo Brasilian and an accomplished fighter pilot.

If any Nippo Brasilian engineer or doctor looks down upon the Black or White Brasilian, it is not because of the race, but due to the under performance of the individuals they deal with. Nothing different from a "White" Brasilian professional looking down upon Nippos or Blacks who do not come up to their expectations.

I am afraid you have been in Brasil for too short a time to pass your judgment on Nippo Brasilans or for that matter Brasilians of any descent.Keep an open mind, mate.
To João
written by Brazuca, October 09, 2009
Tell that to Charles Scott! smilies/wink.gif
Brazuca
written by João da Silva, October 09, 2009
Tell that to Charles Scott!


He must have read my comments. smilies/smiley.gif
Charles Scott!
written by Forrest Allen Brown, October 09, 2009
you got brazil all rong there is no raceisum and any brazilian will tell you that to your face .
they are not held to the stero type black haterid as the US and the rest of the world on treating blacks as free peoples .

Because they are not free they are still slaves still third class citisen in brazil .

in 2003 i was told i could not have lunch with my empolye in a resturant in Joao Paossa the only thing i saw was that he was black he was well dressed , well mannered , i picked him up from trade school i sent him to as he was not able to gain axess to the state or pravite colleges even though he passed the test .

today he owns his own marine motor repair shop has 4 people working full time for him and has built his parents a better home than they ever had .

and all money made of working for the raciest gringoes whom own boats travling from affcria to the north .
he does very little work for brazilians as they dont want to pay him for his laubor or time .

but not to worrie about NINO he has made a name for himself from us boaters and we all have SSB and help one another
Forrest
written by João da Silva, October 09, 2009
Hey Forrest. Congrats to your "black" President. His "home" city didn't win its bid to host the Olympics 2016, BUT....BUT..... he won the Nobel Peace award effortlessly. smilies/wink.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif

You must be proud of him. smilies/smiley.gif
no racism? ask an afro brazilian.....
written by asp, October 09, 2009
i know a lot of afro brazilians and they all say racism exists....

its not the american strain and i agree, who the f**k needs the american racial devide....

but it is blatent. dont you all watch tv? out of a country that is 50 percent black, the afro brazilian is barely represented

the three top singers from bahia getting the big media push,are white, from a state that is known for it huge afro brazilian population

no i dont buy "its about poverty and social class"...poverty is so great in brazil that the racism gets lost just because there is so much disparity between rich and poor...

but , not ackowldeging the huge problems that slavery and the aftermath of the freed slaves ,is total blindness to these dynamics that affected all of the americas that imported slaves

brazil didnt give freed slaves any way to integrate into society ,instesd they encouraged immigration of germans and italians in the whitening of the south and gave them the breaks to get started.

huge amounts of slaves were left with nothing and that nothing and poverty directly related to slavery have been passed down from generation to generation the way riches and inheratances are passed down from the rich from generation to generation.and it is a heavy and direct result into the dynamic of poverty and violence and a sub economy that exists today and is part of the huge problems we see in brazil today

more sub saharan african slaves were imported to brazil than anywhere except the arab world...slavery was abolished in the 1880's and for a decade or so they still brought illeagle slaves into porto de galinhas, the galinhas being the code word for african slaves

really you all dont know s**t about what you are talking about
brazuca, you have only been in brazil a short time, what makes you think you know the dynamic?
written by asp, October 09, 2009
didnt you ever hear of the african dignitaries who went to the south in america and once the red necks found out they werent american they got treated very differantly?

you have been in brazil a short time and you speak like you know what is going on...chill out and try and learn something before you make blatent statements that a whole lot of white brazilians will just agree with. there is an enormas white denial here in brazil as to the racial dynamic and the problems it represents...but every day, people live in fear of these problems, but just cant seem to tie it into the reality of the past....
Charles Scott and asp
written by Brazuca, October 09, 2009
Charles Scott, why did people's attitude change when you started speaking English? Is it because the act of speaking English changes your skin tone and race and makes you "white"? If so, I personally have never seen this phenomenon, and in actual fact find it unlikely if not physically impossible. How can somebody's race change simply by speaking a different language?

asp, I definitely acknowledge that Brazil has a class problem, with a great chasm separating the wealthy from the poor that is difficult to bridge. Hopefully as Brazil continues to develop, this gap will be closed.

Charles and asp, what is your explanation for the phenomenon where Nippo-Brazilians, constituting a meager 1% of the Brazilian population, nevertheless make up a disproportionate 20% of students at USP, the most prestigious university in South America? What is to account for this phenomenon? I think if we can answer this question we can go a long way toward ascribing the right cause to the social effects we see around us.
being an immigrant and a slave are two differant things....
written by asp, October 09, 2009
the germans and italians were welcomed in brazil and the japanese came on their own accord, unlike the huge amount of sub sahara afro brazilians .

im sure the japanese were able to keep their family ties and connections going and as a network to receive other japonese...

afro brazilians,no such luck. families slit up , women raped, discoureged to read and write...discoureged from expressing their religion and culture (although the usa was much worse. the sheer volume of sub sahara african slaves in brazil enabled quilimbos of run away slaves to flourish and some plantation owners in brazil realised just let the masses on the plantation celebrate how they like)

where was the welcoming network for the freed slaves? there was none. it wasnt until the war of paraguay that slaves and ex slaves faught in and afterwards started to apear on the hills of rio de janeiro to claim their spot, but, no help from the elites...and the dynamic exists to this day...

as i have said, poverty from slavery, families split up,econimic exclusion and no help from the elites is passed down generation to generation with plenty of people able to escape , thank god, but,legions of others left behind
Hay Joao
written by Forrest Allen Brown, October 09, 2009
funny he got the prize for what he has done but the closeing date for
people was the first of febuary so pbo had been pres for 11 days .

at this rate in two years they will declare him god of heven and earth
One Thing About Learning The Hard Way, Is That You Don't Soon Forget (regardless of how long it takes).
written by Rick, October 09, 2009
In 2017 Cariocas will come to the same realizaion that 30% of Chicogoans, who didn't want the games in Chicago, have already come to. And that is, when a Federal, State or local government is truly interested in taking care of it's people, it doesn't need an Olympics to do it. Whatever money is derived from the 2016 Olympics, will wind up in the same place that money derived from taxes, natural resources and foreign investment in Brasil now goes: into the pockets of corrupt politicians and businessmen. There's a reason that millions of people in Brasil, living in favelas go to bed hungry every night, while listening to gunshots as the local drug gangs battle it out for control of the various favelas. And anyone who says the Olympics is going to change all that is either out of touch with reality or they just don't give a damn. Usually it's the latter. Especially when they label those who bring up the subject as being "too cynical". Which is why Brasil will remain a third world country, long after the Olympics have come and gone, when many who now support it begin to realize that they've "been had". Not that I'm against Brasil hosting the Olympics. What I am against is those who try to use it as a diversion to take the minds of the populace off what's really important, while they're stuffing their pockets and lying about how everything is going to be much better for everyone, once the games are held. Many Brasilians are about to learn an invaluable lesson. Unfortunately, it will take them another 8 years to learn it. But I guess that's not considered a long time in the third world. Especially when the problems they're confronted with will take generations to overcome.
Forrest
written by João da Silva, October 10, 2009
funny he got the prize for what he has done but the closeing date for
people was the first of febuary so pbo had been pres for 11 days .

at this rate in two years they will declare him god of heven and earth


You are a very innocent Texan, Forrest. No wonder Texas is called "Lone Star State". smilies/wink.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
asp, japas aren't the only voluntary immigrants to Brazil
written by Brazuca, October 10, 2009
asp, you still don't explain how the Japanese can constitute 1% of the population and yet about 20% of those at USP. Are the japas the only ones who came to Brazil voluntarily? Their representation in USP is disproportionate, to say the least. It's much higher than those of Portuguese descent, those of German descent, those of Italian descent, those of Arab descent -- all of whose ancestors came to Brazil voluntarily and who had intact family and whatever explanation to you gave to explain the DISPROPORTIONATE representation of japas in USP.
Brazuca
written by João da Silva, October 10, 2009
asp, you still don't explain how the Japanese can constitute 1% of the population and yet about 20% of those at USP


Mate, USP is no big deal with all these UNE folks destroying the state properties. Look at ITA. And never ever forget that our Air Force boss graduated from there also. Of course, I am not belittling another great Brasilian aviator who has the same last name of my excellent self (He is not related to our Commander-in-Chief, either). smilies/wink.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
Reducing IPI to stimulate the sales of cars, but not software
written by jakob, October 10, 2009
Joao, yes, I read this in the news. I wasn't surprised. There seems to be no systematic incentive to develop knowledge-based activities in Brazil.
brazuca
written by asp, October 10, 2009
for sure i cant answer that in general. i am much more aware of the afro braziliand situation since the afro brazilian culture is what attracts me to brazil the most. the rythms, the dances , the food,etc

there for it was more clear to me why the afro brazilians have huge obsticles to overcome

if the japanese brazilians have 20 percent in the colleges, it doesnt play out in regular life like doctors ,lawyers, polititions etc
asp
written by Brazuca, October 10, 2009
asp, I'm trying to get you to think carefully about the causative factors one may assign to explain social phenomena.

If discrimination and oppression are the only expressions for differences in class amongst social groups, then does discrimination and oppression explain the over-representation of japas in USP? If so, whom are the japas discriminating against? If the japas are more represented than the Brazilians of Portuguese descent, does that mean the japas must be discriminating against Brazilians of Portuguese descent? What about if it's higher than those of German descent -- veritable whites -- as I think it is? Does that mean there are proportionately more japas in USP than Brazilians of German descent because the japas oppress and discriminate against Brazilians of German descent?

If discrimination and oppression aren't the explanations for the unequal representation of japas in USP, that what are? And if there is another explanation, then could this explanation also apply to the inequality you generally see in Brazil?

If we can answer the question to do with the japas, then I believe we can go a long way toward explaining the social inequality in Brazil.
im not sure it the japa question anwers about social inequality...
written by asp, October 10, 2009
are you implying that if everyone aplied themselves like the japas then they would get ahead ?

i dont think it works that way. i see an underworld world existing based on exclusion . and it is overwelmingly afro brazilian or mixed race with afto brazilian. and , the traces of the problems of slavery and the end of slavery are the fonte of this underworld . the reasons are obvous to me.

as i said, slavery ripped families apart...stamped on education...stamped on culture...excluded people from any economic participation except the dregs of societies jobs... i dont know how much more devastating you can get than that for trying to destroy the will of a people, but, you just dont recuperate the next day from being freed, the effects can easily be seen to this day

and the japanese immigrants didnt go through anything compared to that
Whom are the japas excluding, asp?
written by Brazuca, October 11, 2009
and the japanese immigrants didnt go through anything compared to that

Did the German immigrants? The Portuguese immigrants? The Lebanese immigrants? The Spanish Immigrants? The Italian Immigrants?

Whom are the Japanese excluding to make up a very disproportionate 20% of USP students?
again, brazuca, you got me...you will have to give me your theory..
written by asp, October 11, 2009
i cant seem to come up with the answer you are looking for, as i said i know more about the afro brazilian situation...

but i have a feeling you have an answer so go ahead and state it...
asp
written by João da Silva, October 11, 2009
but i have a feeling you have an answer so go ahead and state it...


I am standing by to read the answer of our Ozzie friend. smilies/wink.gif
My answer
written by Brazuca, October 12, 2009
Since the japas are by far the most discriminatory people in Brazil, demonstrated by their ridiculous over-representation at USP, efforts to correct Brazil's racial inequality ought to begin with the japas. After all, it stands to reason that you concentrate your efforts and resources where they're most needed. First start with the japas before you move on to the whites, who can't hold a candle to the japas. That is, first start with the most extreme discriminators and then move on to the lesser discriminators.
brazuca...
written by asp, October 12, 2009
sorry , i cant quite get what you mean...

its sort of the definition of discriminee or discriminator...

im not sure if you mean the japanese are being discriminated or are doing the descriminating...who gives them this 20 percent entry into the colleges ? are you saying the government reserves them the 20 percent or 20 percent get into the colleges just on their own ?

i sure dont say take away any of the japanese who are qualified to get in there for someone else...what i would like to see is just basic support for the people in the poorest neighborhoods , from making sure the facilities and teachers are on the same leval as anywhere else in brazil....and having scholorships and incentives for the people in the poorest neihborhoods...they deserve extra attention because of the lack of it in the past, same with the american schools...i get uptight with white males who think they are getting some kind of punishment or bad treatment to try to get people, who were puposfully excluded out of society for so long , some extra breaks now...

if things were equal in brazil, the doctors, lawyers, polititions, tv actors and news people, the top artists in the music industry, the ceos would have the same general apearance as the selecao brasileiro , and not the team with zico, socrates, falcao, that didnt win the world cup but was labled as "mas jogo bonito...", it would be the modern teams since romario. that is the basic look of brazilians if you got a cross cestion of the country
Let's end exclusion and margilization in both directions
written by Brazuca, October 13, 2009
if things were equal in brazil, the doctors, lawyers, polititions, tv actors and news people, the top artists in the music industry, the ceos would have the same general apearance as the selecao brasileiro...

Things are definitely unequal at USP, with a mere 1% of the population (japas) making up disproportionate and unrepresentative 20% of its students. If some form of discrimination or exclusion isn't the explanation for this phenomenon, then what is? Why aren't other descent groups in Brazil represented proportionately at USP?

I noticed the other day on RioJota coverage of samba preperations for Carnival already under way. Pretty much all the dancers and musicians were "black" or mulatto. How come the other appearances of Brazil were not represented in this important, globally recognized cultural expression? What do you think ought to be done to address the exclusion and marginalization of Brazilians of Japanese, German, Lebanese, Spanish, etc. in the important Brazilian cultural expression of Samba? Should there be quotas for whites in Samba dancing and singing, as the event during Carnival is currently unfairly dominated by darker skin types?
you have a lot to learn , brazuca
written by asp, October 13, 2009
have you ever seen carnival ? you do know that the afro brazilians you saw represent where the samba comes from, the afro brazilian comunity, he favelas. they are the roots and the people who pay attention to sambao and carnival year round, the ones who really live it

but when they go down the avenue, most of the aulas and floats are jam packed with brazilian white people, who come in at the last minute , cant sing the song of the escola and cant dance the samba

the escolas, as far as the madrinas de bateria , start using white models and actresses to represent them instead of the incredibly talented dancers from the comunity, and the tv coverage does very little coverage of the real dancing passistas who are the balarinas of brazil on the leval of any ballet dancer in the world as far as ability to dance an incredibly hard and sensual dance the samba

you made a snap judgement but you didnt really do any research, and now im starting to get where you are coming from , which sounds like the disgruntled white man at the fact that people who have been discriminated for several hundred years deserve some breaks in society.

i dont get people like you

you want to see brazilian whites in cultural action in brazil ? come down to october fest in santa catarina...its way too boring for me i avoid it like the plaugue
Let's start with the most pronounced example of exclusion
written by Brazuca, October 13, 2009
So would should be done about the unfair situation with the japas?
...
written by João da Silva, October 14, 2009
So would should be done about the unfair situation with the japas?


We could set up a concentration camp for them. smilies/wink.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
again, im confused about your japa question.....
written by asp, October 14, 2009
how did they get this 20 percent ? are you saying the government gave them 20 percent, or 20 percent of college students at this place you are talking about are japa ?

and,i dont see any problem.....i just said the people who are on the lowest stratasphere of society should have some kind of safty net to keep them in school and some kind of scholorships that would give those that really want it and show scholastic aptitude a chance

i havent put it into quotas or percentages, it could be scholorships and just plain up keep and attention to all the schools in the peripheries that have such poor conditions now. what young people are going to have incentive if the schools on the fundimental levals are not up graded and with oportunities for the students that really want it...
Mission accomplished
written by Brazuca, October 15, 2009
I notice you've stopped talking about color and race as causally relevant. smilies/smiley.gif
oh man, brazuca....you got me....
written by asp, October 15, 2009
wow...i seem to remember you as the guy who brought in the statistic that 90 percent of afro brazilian women were sterilised by some henry kissenger final solution plan...

i have to keep my eye on you...
...
written by João da Silva, October 18, 2009
After the "incident" in Rio yesterday, it is so obvious that the writer of this article Ms.King is quite prophetic. Hope she doesn't say "I told you so" in 2016. smilies/cheesy.gif
Great article
written by Joao Neguinho, November 11, 2009
Well written article....its all so true. Brazil has a damn long way to go. Did someone mention that the Pan american games were several times overbudget and rife with corruption......Same steaming pile of s**te..... smilies/cheesy.gif

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