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Brazil's Romance with France and Iran, a Game of Power and Nukes PDF Print E-mail
2009 - December 2009
Written by Gregory Melus   
Sunday, 06 December 2009 02:13

French fighter Rafale Recently a major petroleum producing country located in a region recognized for anti-Americanism and fragile democracies completed negotiations on a multi-billion dollar arms deal with nuclear implications. The region is not the Middle East or Asia, but South America and the country is not Syria or North Korea, but Brazil. 

A country determined to reflect its geopolitical potential not only by hosting international sporting competitions but also by creating a modern military industry.

On September 7, the day Brazilians celebrate their independence, President Lula of Brazil and President Sarkozy of France inaugurated the year of French Brazilian cooperation by signing an arms deal. The terms include the manufacture of five submarines (one nuclear) and fifty transport helicopters in Brazil. The deal projected to finish by 2020 will enable Brazil to manufacture nuclear submarines and earn the prestige of a relatively modern military.

Several days after on September 11, the military cooperation between the two countries deepened when President Lula expressed his preference to purchase 36 Rafale fighter jets from France. Brazil outlined its goal to modernize its air force in its National Defense Strategy of 2008 and the French arms manufacturer Rafale seems to be the favorite.

The generous terms of technology transfer in the submarine deal and the potential fighter jet deal will be key in the decision. President Sarkozy further sweetened the fighter jet offer by agreeing to purchase 10 KC-390 transport airplanes from Embraer, the Brazilian airplane manufacturer. Notwithstanding any surprises in the review by the Brazilian Air Force the official announcement of the completed agreement appears to almost be a formality.

In a statement explaining his predilection of the French offer, President Lula referred to a letter written by President Sarkozy to guarantee the transfer all necessary technology to Brazil for the manufacture and repair of the jets.

President Sarkozy attended to President Lula's concerns personally to secure Rafale its first competitive contract win since 1988. If the deal is completed it will inaugurate a military partnership that will certainly grow as Brazil raises its profile in the region and the world.

The U.S. Congress attempted to outflank the French by offering a similar guarantee of access to U.S. military technology in the fighter jet deal has not appeared to have made any impact. Congressional approval is necessary and the ability to sell military hardware to third countries and access to replacement parts can be affected by the political winds.  Washington regulates where U.S. made technology can go and after U.S. vetoes of Venezuelan purchases of Embraer jets, Brazil seems reluctant to allow trust the U.S

The deal represents a major step for the Brazilian military and industry. It provides a power projection capability that only five of the most powerful countries in the world have and will be a technological leap for domestic industry. Regionally, the modernization of Brazil's military is following the trend.

Latin American countries have increased their military spending 50 % since 2003 matching the steep rise in incomes from commodity sales. Feelings of insecurity fueled by the progressive militarization of Colombia and President Chavez's antagonism to U.S. foreign policy in the region have motivated Latin America to arm.

The modernization of Brazil's military reflects its desire to be a regional leader and compete with the influence of the United States in the region. The current U.S. administration is trapped in two Middle Eastern wars and distracted by the economic crisis.

It has struggled to define clear positions in Latin America on such issues as Colombian military bases and the coup in Honduras. During the recent crises, Brazil has provided strong leadership in the region and has transformed itself into a reference for Latin America. Further, the capabilities will complement Brazil's efforts to integrate the militaries and economies of Latin America through UNASUR (Union of South American Nations) and provide it advanced capabilities.

While unable to match the U.S. in economic or military might, the arms purchase is an important step forward for President Lula to realize his dream for Brazil to be recognized as a world power.

Brazil has desired a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council for a long time, but its ultimate aim may be slightly more cynical. Addressing the U.N. on September 24 President Lula may have revealed the specter when he announced the exchange of visits between himself and none other than U.S. pariah President Ahmadinejad.

Ahmadinejad's visit to Brazil, which occurred last month, indirectly accepted the Iranian elections and clearly recognized President Ahmadinejad as the legitimate leader of Iran.

Further, Lula publicly defended Iran's nuclear program: "I defend for Iran the same rights with respect to nuclear energy that I do for Brazil". The plan to militarize nuclear energy has already begun and the ability to weaponize it has never been closer for Brazil.

A D.C.-native, Gregory Melus is currently a freelance reporter based in São Paulo, Brazil. He worked on the Obama campaign after serving in a Congressional Office on Capitol Hill for over two years. Greg is trilingual and has lived abroad for years to investigate the controversial conflicts and issues that affect our age first-hand. His experience includes working and volunteering for international aid institutions at the Grameen Bank in Argentina and Al-Najaf University in Palestine. A graduate of the University of North Carolina, Greg will be pursuing a JD at American University College of Law in 2010.



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Comments (44)Add Comment
Reply to Gregory Melus
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 06, 2009

Gregory Melus: “Further, Lula publicly defended Iran's nuclear program: "I defend for Iran the same rights with respect to nuclear energy that I do for Brazil". The plan to militarize nuclear energy has already begun and the ability to weaponize it has never been closer for Brazil.”


*****


Ricardo: Today Brazil is already armed with nuclear weapons, but Brazil can’t make it public because of the restrictions imposed by current Brazilian Constitution.

At this point Brazil has the nuclear technological capability to even help Iran and President Ahmadinejad to also develop their nuclear technology program.

.
By the way...
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 06, 2009

By the way, there's nothing new on the above article; it is just a a rehash of old news.

.
...
written by João da Silva, December 06, 2009
At this point Brazil has the nuclear technological capability to even help Iran and President Ahmadinejad to also develop their nuclear technology program.


Right. That is the reason for Fraulein Angela Merckel´s outburst against Brasil during our President´s visit to Berlin. With our friendly attitude towards President Ahmadinejad, we are going to do brisk and transparent business with Iran in the Nuclear Technology field. This is going to undermine the shady and nefarious dealings of the European governments with that country.

Today Brazil is already armed with nuclear weapons, but Brazil can’t make it public because of the restrictions imposed by current Brazilian Constitution.


The constitution can easily be amended to make this fact public, as no party will dare to vote against this change in an election year.



Nukes
written by Palomudo, December 06, 2009
Hipocresy has no limits.....Israel has an arsenal of several hundred nukes and today it is ruled by a bunch of criminals but nobody makes them accountable.......Iran is under constant threat from Israel and the USA with the support of their european lackies. They don't want Iran or Venezuela or anybody rich in oil and natural resources to gain access to weapons that will allow them to defend themselves or stop the big gansters from robbing them.

Why can Israel and the USA have weapons of mass destruction when in fact these two have proven to be the most criminal and irresponsible goverments of today.
...
written by usa_male, December 06, 2009
"36 Rafale fighter jets from France"

Is it already sure that Brazil is going to buy the 36 Rafale fighter jets from France or does El Presidente Obama still have a chance to sell the Super Hornets?
usa_male
written by João da Silva, December 06, 2009
Is it already sure that Brazil is going to buy the 36 Rafale fighter jets from France


Nicholas, that is what the writer of this article says and he must have some insider information. smilies/wink.gif
...
written by Nicholas (usa_male), December 07, 2009
I see, well, when I hope to read read "official" in mercopress.com, but thanks anyway.
Reply to Joao da Silva
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 07, 2009

Ricardo: Interesting development and probably related to the 7 US military bases in Colombia - the US has started a real arms race in South America.

***


“Russia's Sale of Air Defense System to Brazil Complicates Any US Fighter Deal”
Brazzil magazine
Monday, 07 December 2009

http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/11511/

… A Russian delegation met last month with the high command of the Brazilian army to advance negotiations for the purchase of a ground-air defense system Tor.M23, similar to that sold by Moscow to the Iranian regime.

The system was specially developed by the Russians to counter the possible attacks of the US F-18 Super Hornet fighter-bombers, manufactured by Boeing.


.





Ricardo Amaral
written by João da Silva, December 07, 2009
“Russia's Sale of Air Defense System to Brazil Complicates Any US Fighter Deal”


Hi Ricardo,

I read that article and I am not sure what exactly is the game. As far as I know during the mandate of FHC, our Air Defense system (SIVAM) was bought from Raytheon. It is not compatible with the French nor Russian systems.So if we are buying a new system from the Russians, then we have to write off about $4 Billions. If we are buying RAFAELES, can the existing American made Air Defense System made compatible. Technically, I think it is possible. The GRIPENS shouldn't have any problems and hence the the price will certainly be competitive.

I for one think that the choice of the fighters or the Air Defense systems should be based on cost/benefit analysis plus the technical capabilities. The only folks that would be able to give a sound judgment call are our FAB personnel and not the Minister of Defense who is a politician and lawyer by profession.

As for Iran buying the Russian Air Defense system, that is fine. Because the Americans have declared Iran to be a "rogue" state and that country lives under the constant threat of Israel nuking it.The same thing with Venezuela whose strongman Col.Chavez has declared the U.S. as his personal enemy and is behaving like an old maid who expects to be raped by someone any day.

As for Brasil, we haven't declared the U.S. to be our enemy nor have they declared that we are. So I do not expect USAF´s F-18´s coming to bomb Av.Paulista or the unsuspecting beach goers in Copacabana in the near future. As you may remember, I have asked many times in my previous posts to define who our real enemy is. Since nobody has clearly defined the name, the government´s real objective of buying Submarines, Fighters, Helicopters, etc; are to revamp our defense industry and create jobs for qualified professionals in all fields. Whichever country that is willing to transfer the technology and jointly set up manufacturing plants in Brasil will win the contracts to sell anything related to armaments industry.

BTW, have you ever wondered how easily Shimon Peres managed to sell $350 Millions worth of UAV´s without creating any commotion in the Brasilian press and a few days before his arrival Joe Lieberman was on a "courtesy visit" to Brasil. smilies/wink.gif
Reply to Joao da Silva
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 08, 2009

I did not know that Joe Lieberman had visited Brazil a few days before Shimon Peres.

Joe Lieberman is nothing more than a whore, and the Democratic Party should get hid of him on a permanent basis.

Al Gore made a huge mistake when he invited Joe Lieberman to be his running mate on the Democratic ticket in 2000.

Joe Lieberman is a traitor – during the election of 2008 he was a supporter of John McCain – and Joe Lieberman got an invitation to speak on the Republican Convention – for all practical purposes today that guy belongs to the Republican Party.

I few like throwing up every time I see Joe Lieberman face on television.

That a*****e still is the Senator from Connecticut and as far as his vote on any issue is concerned: he can stick it up his ass.

.
Correction
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 08, 2009

I feel like throwing up every time I see Joe Lieberman face on television.
Reply to Joao da Silva
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 08, 2009

If there is an American senator that I really dislike - that senator is
Joe Lieberman - he is a real piece of s**t.

.
Regarding Senator Joe Lieberman
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 08, 2009

If the leadership of the Democratic Party had any balls then they would have taken away from Senator Joe Lieberman his chairmanship on the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, and his membership on the Armed Services, and Small Business Committees.

But that it would be too much to expect from a gutless Democratic Party.

.
Ricardo Amaral
written by João da Silva, December 08, 2009
If there is an American senator that I really dislike - that senator is Joe Lieberman - he is a real piece of s**t.


There are plenty of Senators here that are as bad as or worse than good ole Joe, Ricardo. That is the reason why I no longer pay attention to their empty talks, promises, etc; They are more interested in generating conflicts than ideas, thus lining their own pockets. For them the conflicts are more profitable than long term projects!
Caças para o Brasil
written by Otto, December 09, 2009
O F-18 não é interessante para o Brasil, pois, não há como confiar nos americanos. Eles sempre travaram o desenvolvimento do Brasil, vejam os casos das aplicações espaciais, peças sensíveis etc... Devemos buscar parceiros além da França. Russia, China e outros. Os EUA devem provar uma amizade sólida. Afinal o Brasil foi sempre um bom parceiro. Até nos filmes somos taxados como terceiro mundo. Isto sabemos, não é necessário expor.
Putting the Americans Off
written by Brazuca, December 09, 2009
Regarding the possibility of Brazil buying that Russian air-defence system, it seems that it's a way of excusing themselves from buying the American aircraft without openly refusing to do so, as the following paragraph from the defesa.net site suggests:

A possibilidade dos EUA abandonarem a disp**a pelo F-X2 foi bem recebida por alguns setores do Governo Lula, que esperavam um motivo forte para não se sujeitar à pressão americana para adquirir o avião. Assim os setores do governo brasileiro opositores à proposta americana - mas receosos de contrariar a vontade do Tio Sam - sairão de mãos lavadas, pois se esta informação vier a se confirmar, serão os próprios americanos que não quiseram continuar na disp**a. Se o F/A-18 Super Hornet ficar fora do F-X2, a Força Aérea Brasileira vai perder o avião preferido pela maioria dos seus pilotos.

http://www.defesanet.com.br/09_12/091203_002.html
Lula
written by anonymous, December 15, 2009
Silly me, I used to think Lula was some kind of populist leader concerned about the poor. Yet, he's looking more and more like power-hungry egotistical politicians by hugging and sucking up to Ahmadinejad. The guy is a ruthless tyrant with the blood of innocent protestors on his hands. Lula is defending his right to have nuclear arms???? Isn't it obvious that this is not a responsible leader, but a fanatic who denies the holocaust and has vowed to wipe Israel off the face of the earth? Is Lula so blinded by the rabid anti-americanism in Brazil that wishes to blame so much of its troubles on the US? or is this hugging and kissing what he needs to do to strike an arms and weapons deal? an oil exploration deal? or some other kind of business deal? The point is, why is Lula striking any kind of deal with this devil? Sure, sure Brazil like any country in the world is free to choose its own allies and go against the US. Yes, that would be a great thing if only it was for a good cause like opposing wars or fighting world hunger, or any other good. But what does it say of Lula to be hugging this ruthless tyrant who is murdering his own people as they peacefully protest the rigged election. Shame on you Lula! I once respected you, now you look like so many other crafty politicians reaching for power and prestige. Yet, you chose some foul and ugly allies. If Brazil does assist in the development of Iran's nuclear arsenal, and Israel or some other nation is attacked, then Lula, and the Brazilians who favored this alliance will have the blood of the innocent on their hands. If this is Lula's idea of taking a larger role in world politics, it looks hideous!
...
written by Andrade, December 16, 2009
Shame on you Lula! I once respected you, now you look like so many other crafty politicians reaching for power and prestige.


Shame on you too. You once respected Lula and the moment he started befriending the Persians, you immediately came to a conclusion that he is anti Semitic which is not true and now you have turned anti Lula. Listen Mr.Anonymous, we Brasilans can befriend with anybody including the Devil, to improve the lives of our citizens by practicing fair trade with other nations.Perido. Just because you happen to be married to a Brasilian citizen, it does not give you any right to dictate our foreign policy. So please do not come out with any further garbage about Geopolitics, Word Trade, Lula, etc;

If you want to criticize somebody, send an e-mail to Ariel Sharon & Co for massacring the poor Palestinians. BTW, I read your criticisms of your life in São Paulo. Go live in Jerusalem and tell us how the life is there.
...
written by anonymous, December 16, 2009
Andrade: I never said Lula was anti-semitic as you claim. I did say, however, that to hug and befriend Ahmadinejad who openly denies the holocaust and claims Israel should be wiped of the face of the earth is insulting and threatening to Jews and any peace-loving fair-minded people in the world. More importantly, whether he is anti-semitic is not the issue: if Lula is negotiating any kind of deal that promotes Iran's ability to strike Israel with a nuclear weapon, and if Israel was attacked, then Lula, and Brazil as well, would be complicit in a ghastly unspeakable evil deed. This blog has many loud-mouthed jingoistic Brazilians like yourself who defend Brazil's right to do whatever it wants, even deal "with the devil if it improves the lives of our citizens". I have seen this kind of blind jingoism throughout the world, and I know Brazil is particularly ripe with it. Whether you are a conservative flag waving jingoistic redneck in the US who thinks their country is always right no matter what they do, or you are a jingoistic Brazilian equally blinded by mindless patriotism, you are not beyond the universal laws of justice and reason. In other words, Brazilian or American, jingoism is divisive, selfish, idiotic and toxic to world peace and the fraternity of all people. I have numerous friends and acquaintances from Brazil who are thoughtful, fair-minded, reasonable, freedom-loving people. They are able to hear criticism of Brazil and Lula without being reactive and defensive like you, they understand and are intellectually mature enough to talk openly about the many problems facing Brazil, and they understand the folly of befriending such a tyrant who is now fiercely beating and oppressing the majority of peace-loving Iranians who cannot openly protest in the streets. When anyone seriously criticizes the government and the US, conservative fanatical patriots say: Love it, or leave it. But I both love it, and criticize it when it does wrong. In fact, I criticize it, because I love it. And, in turn, I love it because I can criticize it, allowing me to call for a more just and fair world. And this is what makes democracies strong, not blind allegiance to any stupid thing the leaders do. If you support democracy and freedom in Brazil, you need to support it as a right to all people everywhere, including Iranians, as well as my right to question Lula's actions. By the way, you said I was critical of Lula for befriending the Persians. Ridiculous! He is NOT befriending the Persians, but befriending a tyrant oppressing most Persians, and they see this and are appalled. Whether you are a conservative flag waving jingoistic redneck in the US who thinks their country is right no matter what they do, or are a jingoistic Brazilian equally blinded by mindless patriotism, you are not beyond the universal laws of justice and reason. In other words, Brazilian or American, jingoism is divisive, selfish, idiotic and toxic to world peace and the fraternity of all people. Saying I am "dictating" Brazil's foreign policy is silly: dictators dictate, whereas, freedom of speech is a right of ordinary people everywhere on Earth to speak out for reason and justice. Rednecks and people like you are intolerant of open dialogue and criticism. They say they are for freedom of speech, but when people say critical things, they want to shut them up. If Lula wants to have a stronger role in the world stage, he needs to understand that there are higher standards for such actions, applied by all people in the world who see their actions. Yes, Brazil can befriend anyone it wants, even the devil, but people around the world are also free to not respect that decision. By poorly choosing one ally, they may lose more reasonable ones. The US befriended the Shah of Iran, and the Iranians were rightly outraged, and responded by taking US hostages. The blowback or consequence of befriending the Shah is that we been in conflict for over 30 years with Iran. I have to wonder what the blowback will be for Lula or Brazil if they increase trade relations, or even assist in Iran's nuclear weapons development.
...
written by anonymous, December 16, 2009
Andrade: I also want to say that you lack of sensitivity to my family's struggles in Brazil only gives further evidence to the kind of indifference and harshness foreigners often experience in Brazil. Despite the malice against the US often expressed on this blog by many who celebrate the downturn of the US economy, many Brazilians have been welcomed in the US and have done quite well whether there legally or illegally. In fact, despite all the complaints and hatred I hear on this blog, Brazilians are treated far better in the US than Americans like myself would be treated in Brazil. I am not talking about the super rich capitalist Americans living in guarded compounds in Brazil, but regular working or middle class Americans. In fact, except for students, and Jehovah witnesses, you rarely see such Americans living in Brazil, since it is not a welcoming or promising environment. Vlacav Havel, once said that the litmus test for whether the Czech Republic is a tolerant and fair society will be reflected in its treatment of outsiders to the mainstream culture like the Romani, or Gypsies. Despite the boasting I heard in Brazil about what a multi-cultural society, you get a glimpse of the lack of appreciation and respect for ethnic diversity and race in Brazil when you hear someone refer to anyone who looks Asian as Japa. Of course Chinese people are offended that someone were to think of them as Japanese, but this seemed to be lost on many Brazilians. I was often referred to as Aleman (German) by strangers in the streets or a market. This is a name given to anyone who looks like they Northern European, with fair skin and lighter colored hair, I guess. It never seemed to strike people as offensive to see someone and group them in to a nationality based on their appearance. We are taught in the US that this is a stereotype and offensive. Yet I heard worse: all Middle Easterners (Arab, Iranian, Pakistani, etc) referred to as Turcos, not to mention anti-semitism. I also heard blacks referred to as monkeys. I also had a black friend who was always ready to talk about the racism of Brazil that he was deeply offended by. I saw how insensitive Brazilians could be to its own ethnic communities and I saw how unwelcoming Brazil could be to foreigners. We fortunately were able to leave once Brazil lifted my wife's visa restrictions, but so many other people from Bolivia or poor neighboring countries were seriously exploited, working in sweatshops, abused and mistreated, they were unable to go elsewhere. It is another myth about Brazil that it is a multi-ethnic, non-racist culture that celebrates and appreciates this diversity. It is diverse, since many immigrants came there years ago, but it does not necessarily appreciate, or celebrate this diversity. There is a quiet homogenizing force that has no time for these differences.
Not Black and White
written by anonymous, December 16, 2009
Andrade: I am also no apologist for Israel: I was sickened by the unrestrained slaughter of civilians by Israel in Gaza. I am for a Palestinian homeland, yet I DO NOT deny the holocaust, hate jews, nor support a ruthless tyrant terrorizing Israel with nuclear weapons. I have Jewish, Iranian, and Brazilian friends as well as people from various countries here in the US. My opinions are not as black and white as you present them. Counter to rabid anti-American views posted here, we are a mix of people and opinions, striving to get along in a highly diverse and unique culture. Unlike redneck jingoists here and elsewhere, I don't see it as black and white, us against them, the US against other countries. I dream for a win-win solution with the success of my country coexisting with the success and well being of all people of the world.
anonymous
written by Andrade, December 16, 2009
Wow, I am surprised that my 2 paragraph comments received a 3 part essay as reply from you. You are making lots of assumptions about many things including and especially that I am Brasilian redneck! I read your comments addressed to Michael Rubin in the other thread and now I get these comments.Obviously your stay in Brazil wasn't too pleasant partly because of some justifiable reasons you have listed and partly because of your own attitude. You have further accused me of "lacking of sensitivity to your family's struggles in Brazil", without explaining what sort of struggles they underwent and as though I am personally responsible for their struggles.

I am happy that your ordeal in Brazil is over and you have gone back to your own country and familiar culture. I am bit surprised though, to know that your wife had to wait for Brazil to lift her "visa restrictions" before leaving the country.If she is a Brazilian citizen, she doesn't require an exit visa to leave the country. She just needs a passport.

Coming back to the main question: Should Brazil chalk out its own foreign policy independent from the Americans? Our External Affairs Ministry thinks so and I agree with them.Lula or not. Your fear that we will be furnishing know-how on making Nukes to the Iranians is unfounded. They can teach us a trick or two from the knowledge they acquired from Pakistan. They want other products. When your allies such as the Chinese,Germans,French,etc; are doing brisk business with them, why not us? Those gentlemen do not mind kissing Ahmadinejad´s ass, though they scream and yell at him behind his back.

As for Israel, you have made some valid comments in part 3 of your essay. Israel can defend themselves and you guys will go their rescue. After all the resolutions (39 so far) in the U.N. condemning Israel for its misdeeds against the Arab countries have been vetoed by their "padrinhos" U.S. of A. You must bear in mind that we are not a permanent member of UNSC and we cant defend Israel nor Iran in that world forum. Lula wants us to become a permanent member, but I am not sure if it is worth. I firmly believe that U.N. lost its morality a long time ago and is dying a slow death like that of the League of Nations, like a few of other distinguished fellow Brazilian bloggers have written before.





...
written by anonymous, December 17, 2009
Andrade: you say "Coming back to the main question: Should Brazil chalk out its own foreign policy independent from the Americans?" But this is not my question. Of course Brazil should make its own policy independent of the US. I don't criticize Lula for hugging and befriending Ahmadinejad because the US is against this. I criticize him for befriending him because he is a tyrant, a war-monger, an rabid anti-semite, and a leader who is killing and torturing his own people. I think Brazil should take it's own independent position on any world issue regardless of what the US, EU, India, or China is doing. I simply believe Lula and Brazil (like all countries and world leaders) should follow policies that are just, and fair. In this case, I think befriending Ahmadinejad is foul, and as I said before, shameful. I don't care if this is what the US government thinks is fair and right. I say this as my own person, as a world citizen. If the US favored such a scoundrel I would be equally repulsed. Have you been reading the accounts of bloody beatings and murder of innocent protesters on the streets of Iran? Have you heard Ahmadinejad speak of the holocaust or Jews? This is what sickens me. This is my own the "central question" or concern, not whether Brazil is aligned or not aligned with the US.
...
written by anonymous, December 17, 2009
Andrade: You also said "You have further accused me of "lacking of sensitivity to your family's struggles in Brazil", without explaining what sort of struggles they underwent and as though I am personally responsible for their struggles..." Well you sounded like you read some references to my experience elsewhere, and your response was that I should go live in Jerusalem and see how life is there. So, yes, to me, your tone sounded insensitive to my experience. Of course, you are in no way responsible for my experience, and I never meant to suggest you were. You also were unsure as to why my wife had a 2 year visa restriction. Since I want to protect her confidentiality, I will say that it was part of the terms of her receiving a grant to study in the US. She needed to return and pay back this debt by staying at least 2 years. We met in the US, and she needed to return to finish her Phd. We were married in the US, and we assumed that being married would make it easier for me to get my working papers in Brazil quickly. This was her experience in coming here, but not my experience there. The entire time I was there, they were still processing my application. Over 2.5 years of processing! As I said previously, as we were making plans to leave, I received my working documents in the mail! My wife had our son during that time, and I was unable to find any kind of work that required working papers. It was stressful. I missed out on several interesting teaching opportunities, and had to resort to hanging up advertisements weekly to work as an English tutor wherever I could. Fortunately, we survived on my savings from the US. I don't wish to get into details about our experiences and struggles, but I do have many bitter memories. We had troubles like most Brazilians: a nanny abusing our son, people robbing or trying to rob us or take advantage, or treat us poorly, etc. On top of this we were isolated: our neighbors ignored us. Also not being able to communicate, or speak up for myself was very frustrating and stressful. However, I must say, I met many fine and wonderful people there. I assumed that much of our troubles were just a function of being in a third world country that had so many immense problems compared to our troubles. I saw so many people in shacks and favelas, struggling with so much less, and in the end, I was happy to return home where I have a voice, but I still wish the greatest happiness to the Brazilians who helped us, and to the many Brazilians struggling in poverty. You said something about how it must have been something in me that was to blame. My wife who knows me well, never thought this was so. i came to Brazil in love with my life, ager to meet her family, and very open and eager to see the country. But our struggle with work and not knowing the language and just surviving as a new family on our own (my wife's family lived far from us by plane) was so exhausting and stressful, that in time, it began to wear on me and the country lost it's charm. I have lived in other countries. Of course, I easily found work, home and friends there despite not knowing the language, so that made me love those places. You sound like other Brazilian who I tried to explain this to; they just found it hard to believe that I wasn't in love with the place; I don't mean to insult the natural pride people have about their home, but we had a hard time. Immigrants everywhere often have a hard time. Some places are fairly welcoming, with work opportunities, open and friendly neighbors, safe welcoming streets, people curious to know about you and your country and life, etc. Some are not. I found Brazil to be not welcoming. I have worked and taught immigrant children (children of farm workers) in the US, and I already had a reasonable sympathy for immigrants, legal and illegal. This experience only deepened my appreciation for their experience and the struggle of not knowing the language. Finally my son was born there, and my beloved wife who I love with all my heart, stood by me the whole time. So, no matter how negative I sound, there are some Brazilians I still love immensely.
i expected more from Lula
written by anonymous, December 17, 2009
Finally, as I said elsewhere. I am no apologist for Israel. I would like the US to have a different position on Israel. I would like the US to support the Palestinians and Israelis equally. Clearly, we have favored Israel. I can only hope and support change in this direction. I Obama represents a change, but as with everything with him, his shift toward concern with the Palestinians is subtle and nuanced, nothing drastically different so far. Yet, I think he clearly wants justice and statehood for the Palestinians. I have several Jewish friends and many Jewish acquaintances here in the US. Despite what many people in other countries think, Americans are not simply pro-Zionist Israel, nor is the Jewish community. Many progressive Americans as well as Jews want to see a Palestinian homeland. The attitude here is not simply full support for Israel, not at all. I think more and more average Americans are disenchanted with the Israeli treatment of Palestinians. I certainly am. This is also true for progressive Jewish friends of mine as well.

Also, you said that the Germans, French and Chinese are dealing with Iran so why not Lula. Well, I don't know the details about that. I want to read more about what each country is doing. While corporations in many companies may be doing business with Iran, I don't believe the Germans or French are hugging and speaking out for Iran's right to nuclear weapons. To the contrary, the French, Germans and other EU nations are disturbed and uneasy, if not feeling threatened, by Iran and Ahmadinejad. They see him as a "loose canon" and a threat to regional stability. It is in the EU charter that know country can deny or belittle the holocaust, so I suspect their leaders are NOT hugging and praising him. China, well they may be another story. They will sell weapons to any dictator who will pay them, but this is not surprising from China. It's a fascist and totalitarian country, with all the state apparatus devoted to the profits of China Inc. If you despise the US for it's imperialist legacy, China, which does not even have the pretense of democracy and fairness like the US and EU, will be, in my opinion, a much more nefarious force if when it is unleashed in the future as the dominant superpower. So, China, is befriending Iran. Well no surprise there. Yet, in the case of Brazil and Lula, I expected more.
my god, andrade speaks paragraphs.....
written by asp, December 17, 2009
i guess all your call to arms against the usa blurbs and salutes to communism was just to provoke....

or it was another id theft
Don't know what you are talking about here asp. Seem to have me confused with someone else
written by anonymous, December 17, 2009
i am not sure what your message is supposed to mean: "i guess all your call to arms against the usa blurbs and salutes to communism was just to provoke....

or it was another id theft"

asp: that is confusing. Is it directed to me or Andrade. If it is for me, I think you are confusing me with someone else. I haven't been to this site since I was in Brazil years ago. I kind of accidently came upon it, following a link from something else. As I read many of the stories here, i found it to be less like a professional news service committed to in depth investigation, striving for detached unbiased, objective news reporting, but instead more like a 24-hour non-stop infomercial promoting all things Brazilian as extraordinary.
What do you mean suggesting that i wrote a "call to arms against the USA"? Nonsense. You think I would encourage an attack of my own country? I am a bit of a pacifist in general. I think the US should be out of Afghanistan, or aiding them in building schools and infrastructure, but that is about it. The sooner we get out the better. I am basically against war in general, preferring diplomacy whenever possible. Obama has not convinced me with his recent speech at the Nobel Prize ceremony where he said that at certain times, war is inevitable. Yeah, may against the Nazi's, but I am still not convinced that we need to be in Afghanistan. I guess after Vietnam, and Iraq, and all the lies and misinformation Americans were given about both wars, I need much more evidence to convince me that wars are justified. So whoever you refer to and the "call to arms" I don't know what you are talking about. No, not I. And regarding the "salutes to communism" Hmmm? Well, I am a socialist, probably much like the socialist of Europe, accepting an economy with a mix of private and state run enterprises (healthcare, etc), and with all the typical rights and freedoms of most EU countries. I don't see this happening in the US any time soon, so instead, I am pleased to see liberal New Deal reforms such as the health care reforms currently being negotiated in the US. Yet, communism? When I finally learned clearly how Russia, and China massacred millions of people they perceived to be enemies all for the good of the future communist paradise, I became a fan of more humanistic socialism proposed by people like Albert Camus. So while I have read Marx, and find his ideas interesting, (providing the most comprehensive vision of democracy, including economic democracy) none of the countries that have tried to initiate a communist alternative have done anything in my eyes worth saluting. In fact, it may be that the dream of a future paradise has unfortunately caused so many to demonize people against the communist, so that in turn, they were willing to slaughter millions of innocent people, believing this was somehow for the good of humanity and the future paradise that never came. So, I am afraid, again, I don't what you are talking about.
this one was for andrade.....
written by asp, December 17, 2009
this is the longest lucid paragraph i have seen him make here.....usualy he is saying some strange phrases like:
"lula will join with chavez and iran and defeat the hated enemy the usa..."

there is huge id theft here and lots of weirdos and conspiricy conjecture kooks posting here along with the standard brazil and usa bashers...and lots of provokers

i wouldnt trust any one in here farther than i could throw a bus...except joao old bones...he is all right

for what its worth i like capatilism with a concience...with social programs
asp
written by João da Silva, December 18, 2009
this one was for andrade.....


I think both "Anonymous" and Andrade are making good points, though I would like "Anonymous" to use a screen name. "Vimana", perhaps?

Please clear your mailbox.Too full and messages bouncing back. smilies/wink.gif
Shouldn't you be going? I mean certainly people are worried and looking for you back on your planet.
written by anonymous, December 18, 2009
ASP: You are clearly confusing me with someone else. You say he "usually says some strange phrase like...". But I am new to Brazzil Magazine. I read it a few times when I was in Brazil a few years ago and found it irritating, and 3 days ago I came upon it by chance. I decided to post a few messages after being surprised to read the same kind of irritating stories as I read when I was back in Brazil, that is, lots of ad hominem attacks, and jingoistic ranting against anyone saying anything critical of the US. Most of it could be summarized as: US = evil, Brazil = paradise. Kind of silly talk if you have a preference for sophisticated cultural and political analysis.
Now after responding in several messages to this kind of silly talk for the last two days, my patience is running out, and I am realizing what a futile exercise it would be to continue reading and responding. Your comments are baffling and bewildering. I mean it is one thing to respond to people who attack you and curse you and insult and threaten you for making a critical comment about Brazil, but when someone sincerely (or are you sincere?) seems to confuse you with someone else and then posts some of these cryptic quotes that you claim I wrote ("lula will join with chavez and iran and defeat the hated enemy the usa..."), and then begins to talk to others about "me", or who they think I am, I can only report my utter astonishment. Earlier you claimed I said some strange things about a "call to arms" and "salute to communism". You are way off here base with those claims, my friend. But since I am new to blogs, you did point out something interesting about this site: besides the usual US and Brazil bashers, there are lots of weirdos and conspiracy kooks, as well as provokers. Well, I admit I have said some things that are probably hard hear for some Brazilians without flying off the handle. But provoking them is really not my intention. Although you seem to be associating me with some wacko comments, if you really did look closely, you should see that I was quite lucid throughout all of the posts, and not just the last one. I did strive to carefully clarify various points, whether you agree with them or not. And, after hearing a more reasonable tone in Andrade, without going into detail, I tried to sincerely share a summarize various struggles and hardships my family experienced while living in Brazil, but you seemed to be not reading closely or paying attention to the real content I tried to sincerely share. Consequently, I am reminded of that phrase from the bible where Jesus tells his disciples that if they ever go in a town where the people mock and do not listen to their stories, that they should brush the dust off their sandals and move onto the next village. Then Jesus said that just as they should not let pigs trample on their family pearls, they should not tolerate those who mock and not value their stories. I don't mean to call any of you swine, nor to liken myself to a disciple of Jesus, but I do feel my personal family experience in Brazil and elsewhere are my family pearls so to speak, so I see no reason to share more with people who have no sensitivity or respect for such personal valuables that I shared here. It is also strange of you to talk of identity theft. Do you mean people posing as different people or people stealing documents of others (credit cards, social security numbers, etc) and using them for their own advantage and profit? The latter definition of identity theft is the typical definition used, so your use of it here seems confusing. I think you mean people just posing as others. Well friend, I have been called and accused of a lot of things in my life, but that is not one of them. For better or for worse, I am one of those people who (as we say up North) wears his heart on his sleeve. My wife is annoyed sometimes because I can't help but be sincere, direct and frank. Lastly, I will say, that while I can deal with angry defensive reactive comments here jingoistic louts, your comments and accusations make me feel I am trapped in some kind of nightmarish Kafkaesque Bizzaro World, where no matter what I say in an attempt to earnestly communicate and clarify any misunderstanding, people are not listening, and then they respond with gibberish, and paranoid accusations. You make an interesting point about conspiracy theorists and kooks, but in turn, by not really hearing my message, and then following it with bizarre quotes and accusations, you are, strangely, seem to be portraying yourself as the kind of paranoid conspiracy theory lunatics you talk of. If this is all you have to offer after sharing a difficult time, which is close to my heart, I have to say, I am finished with this dialogue, I have better things to do with my time. And in your case, I am guessing you also have to leave since at this point they must be looking for you back on your planet.
Vimana?
written by anonymous, December 18, 2009
Joao: What does vimana mean? I suspect it's not nice. You also said something about a mailbox. Didn't know I had one here.
Would you think twice before you say such goofy offensive nonsense?
written by anonymous, December 18, 2009
The only identity theft or false presentations that I see here, is you associating me with some weird quotes that have nothing to do with me. It really doesn't matter much and seems like a lot of silly and confused talk, but you just detract from my real attempt to communicate an experience that I was unable to share with most Brazilians since they either just did not get it, or did not care. If your accusations made any sense or were more coherent, I would consider them a form of slander. but mostly it all sounds like confusing gibberish. Would you think twice before you say such goofy offensive nonsense?
what is your problem ,
written by asp, December 18, 2009
i distinctly stated that andrade made those statemens about lula or communism.....can you read correctly?

and there was an idiot with the name "anonymous" back in november who made a lot of anti american statements that i bashed into the ground every step...is it no wonder i thought at first you were that person? its the same moniker

back off your uptight bulls**t and try and read correctly
and i dont agree with all your uptight portrayal of brazil or brazilians

ive been here more that 20 years, 2 years isnt s**t to be making judgements on a people or a country...i just dont put up with anti americanism
joao....
written by asp, December 18, 2009
that damned e mail box again....i dont know why it does that all the time....
anonymous
written by João da Silva, December 18, 2009
What does vimana mean? I suspect it's not nice.


Dont be paranoiac. It is a nice term in one of the ancient languages of the world. ASP, in spite of the his being an American (smilies/cheesy.gif) is a well informed about ancient civilizations. Some months ago, we were discussing with another Brasilina blogger Augustus about NASA experimenting with Mercury as fuel for space Vehicles. ASP had referred to us to some interesting sites and we came across this term.

Anyway, you can choose whatever screen name you want or continue using the name "Anonymous". It doesn't bother me at all.

...
written by anonymous, December 18, 2009
Well, ASP, if I misunderstood, you I apologize. I am new to blogs, and I find it hard to sometimes understand who is saying what to whom. I am surprised that you would assume that because I signed as anonymous, you would associate me with someone else who did the same. I don't know how you say "anonymous" in Portuguese, but I am guessing it is similar. Of course in English, it is not a unique name, but one used by many who simply don't wish to identify themselves. Well, in regards to my two years, it was about all the hell I could bear. Besides, once my wife's visa restrictions were lifted, we simply had to go since I could not make a reasonable living without a working document and even with the working document, an English teacher (which has been my profession in the US) can barely survive on the meager income they pay public school teachers in Brazil. One very kind and wonderful gentleman I met in Brazil was a math teacher in public schools in Brazil. He told me after 10 years he quit teaching and became a school bus driver. Now, in the US, a public school bus driver is on the low end of the pay scale, and a teacher is more like the lowest paid professional, but a reasonably good middle class salary, with medical and other benefits. This man told me that he when became a bus driver, his pay increased, and finally he was able to buy a car. This shows you something of the screwed up situation of the public schools in Brazil when a low-skilled bus driver job has more to offer a talented math teacher. So almost three years of Brazil was enough. We were slowly devouring our savings from back in the US. Americans sometimes teach abroad and come home with money they saved, in my case, I almost lost everything I had saved for years. If I were to stay for 20 years as a public school teacher, I would not be able to afford a car no less a plane ticket to visit my family and friends in the US. Maybe if you are an American working for some multinational based in the US, and paid like an American, but living in Brazil, then you might find it economically attractive. I guess rich U capitalists find it a lucrative place to exploit desperately poor Brazilians as do the local Brazilian capitalists, but I am not in this world, nor do I wish to be. So, Brazil did not seem to have much to offer me in terms of work. Besides, it was more about the quality of the life and differences of the culture. I don't mean to bash Brazil and praise the US, but I simply have an easier and better life here. I really pray for the day, when Brazilians, Indians, Chinese and all people of the world are provided with reasonably decent quality of life. So, in summary, I think almost 3 years of living in Brazil was plenty for me to understand what it had to offer me.
Again, my apology if I misunderstood you. I have had so many hostile reactions to my postings here, that I assumed you were just one more. I really didn't understand the claims. I also appreciate that you say you don't accept anti-americanism. I am no blind fanatic patriot of the US, but I also don't accept or understand all the malice people on this blog express about the US. It seems they are looking for a scapegoat. While I am highly critical of many US policies, I don't agree with the demonizing that I see here. Brazil has many internal problems that seem mostly created by Brazilians; often Brazilians savagely oppressing other Brazilians. And maybe I am expecting too much from a blog which I guess are often dominated by loud-mouthed wackos who spew forth lots of formulaic sound-bites, and they are not representative of the majority of the people. Peace be with you my friend.
ok, anon...
written by asp, December 18, 2009
i understand how hard it can be to try to make a living in brazil...and just about anywhere these days...

i can tell you were under some stressful conditions and i wish you the best of luck for the future....

my small business took a hit to live in brazil, but, i am taking it because i love brazil, the people , the culture, the sensuality etc..i just feel more alive here so i asume the losses . i travel to make my small business work and still have tentecles in the usa and sometimes get to europe as well as what i can get going in cities in brazil...

most of the people on here arnt brazilian...quite a few of the anti american remarks are not made by brazilians...i dont trust this forum but its a great place to vent....i just wouldnt draw any conclusions that this forum represents how brazilian people think

yeah, sorry for any mis communications and i as well as others on here respect the experiances you had with your family

my only point is, i do find brazilians cultivate charm, but, they are like any one else anywhere in the world and are alert on the street and in bank lines or other lines that they could be vulverable...but for me, as someone who lived in new york when it was wild and wholly, coming to brazil had much more charm in comparison when you do interact with people in normal day to day transactions...but not with strangers as this article suggests...you could have had a differant experiance...this is a huge country
asp
written by João da Silva, December 18, 2009
i can tell you were under some stressful conditions


Most of you Gringos are under "stressful conditions", because you get suckered into signing up for a "high speed" Internet connection (from some spurious company) at exorbitant monthly rates and cant receive large sized files. Then you all put the blame on Blue collar Brazilian workers!

BUT..BUT... in a way "Anonymous" is right. Better to be a bus driver, Motoqueiro,porteiro,zelador, etc; than a teacher, college professor or an engineer. Oh, sorry. I forgot to mention about lathe operators turned union leaders. I am sure "Anonymous" appreciates such kind, elects and then complains about them. I bet his wife was all excited about electing a "coitadinho" and once she found that she was prohibited to leave the country without paying back the money the government spent on her studies overseas, she changed her tune.

One thing I cant blame your buddy Andrade is for his lack of honesty and outspoken views.
cant that e mail get through yet , joao ?
written by asp, December 19, 2009
i sent you one, i guess you havent tried to answer yet....

complain about brazilian workers ? no more than american workers...
cant that e mail get through yet , joao ?
written by asp, December 19, 2009
i sent you one, i guess you havent tried to answer yet....

complain about brazilian workers ? no more than american workers...
...
written by anonymous, December 19, 2009
Asp: you said your small business took a hit in Brazil. I am curious about what kind of business you own. Everyone was telling me I should have stayed and opened an English school, but I am not much of a capitalist. Since I was barely able to keep a regular full time schedule, I figured the only way that some people make it is to pay some teachers poorly and try to squeeze as much profit out of them as possible. This seemed like a miserable prospect to me. While I was hoping not to lose money in Brazil, I also didn't see myself getting rich on someone else's labor, especially people from the third world. You are right, it's a big country and lots of different people. I did in fact make lots of interesting friends, and I generally have good feelings about Brazilians. People are people I feel, both good and bad, but together we are all part of the same human family. I wish the best for Brazil and any other third world country. I wish we were all more egalitarian and working to help each other. I know this sound naive to some, but that's what I believe. I know Brazilians with similar feelings, and they don't all hate the US, so you are right, there are lots of loud-mouthed jerks here that just spout off any kind of trash they want because probably in real life, they get very little attention for such attitudes. I have experience with one other blog, and I am seeing how they are similar even if in the US. For example, I live in a very progressive city in the US which is progressive enough to pass a law that says the police won't bother to pursue or arrest illegal immigrants. Such laws are common in many cites here, but this city has a rep**ation for being very progressive. Yet, if you read the blog of the local newspaper, you would think you are in some KKK dominated redneck town in the Deep South. There are all kinds of loud-mouth stupid conservative redneck types, who constantly want to complain about illegal immigrants, specifically Mexicans. Now the part that is strangest to me, is that clearly the majority of people you talk to on the streets here, are very sympathetic or in the least, not hostile to Mexican immigrants, since most people see they are usually hard-working people, doing a hard job, and just trying to better the lives of their families, but if you read this blog, it doesn't matter what the story is about, the comments somehow always connect a complaint about illegal immigrants and how they are costing taxpayers money and involved in gangs and crime. Well, as you say, it's hard to know where the people are from who write here, and they most likely don't represent most Brazilians. And so I should try not to take it all that seriously.
well, lets just say....
written by asp, December 19, 2009
i freelance my skills with a hand picked team of specificly trained indivuals to paying clients...

im not interested in getting into any more detail than that on this forum exept to say its not work for just anybody, it requires a certain training and experiance...

and most of the time, its not extremly lucrative but interesting work
asp
written by João da Silva, December 19, 2009
i freelance my skills with a hand picked team of specificly trained indivuals to paying clients...


I am highly trained to locate well heeled clients. I charge high.Still interested?

.....absolutly, joao......
written by asp, December 20, 2009
you dont even have to know what i do....just tell them its a team of highly trained specialists....

any well heeled cliant should be able to hire a team of specialy trained individuals...with out knowing what they do....its just logical

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