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5,000 Women a Year Die from Botched Abortions in Brazil. Blame It on the Church PDF Print E-mail
2010 - August 2010
Written by John Garcia   
Wednesday, 04 August 2010 00:10

Campaign against abortion in Brazil It should come as no surprise that a country whose population is 74% Roman Catholic bans abortion. In Brazil, the prohibition of abortion dates back to 1940. Today, the procedure can only be legally practiced if medical complications threaten a woman's life, or when a pregnancy results from incest or rape.

Due to this law, women who do not meet one of these conditions and who desire to have an abortion must routinely go through precarious and unlawful means, such as taking a drug cocktail or going to an unlicensed clinic.

Unsafe abortions occur with such great frequency that the government's critics insist that the law places millions of women at serious risk yearly. They demanded that the authorities show some responsibility and protect the health of women by legalizing abortion.

Standing in the way of change is the Roman Catholic Church's dogma, which dominates public opinion. As an institution, the Church itself stands opposed to the decriminalization of abortion, and uses the threat of excommunication as a means to frighten those in government who hope for progress.

A recent national survey conducted by the University of Brasília shows that one out of five women under the age of forty has had an abortion. The Health Ministry reports that approximately 1,000,000 illegal abortions are performed a year, and an estimated 200,000 women annually must seek hospital attention due to complications arising from these illicit abortions.

The problem may be even more serious than the study indicates because it does not take into account the large number of abortions performed at private clinics.

An International Planned Parenthood Federation investigation carried out in Brazil found that over 5,000 women die, and at least 800,000 women must be hospitalized after undergoing these illegal procedures every year. Roughly half of the illegal abortions are induced by prescription-related drugs, while the other half are performed in clandestine, often unsanitary clinics.

The University of Brasília's survey defied preconceived notions regarding the sort of woman who gets an illegal abortion. It revealed that single adolescents and older women are not the only ones commonly seeking illicit abortions.

The team leader of the study, anthropologist Débora Diniz from the university's Bioethics, Human Rights and Gender Department, has noted that research indicates most women who obtain abortions are married, church-going, have children, but have received minimal education. This study showed that the problem of life-threatening abortions affects women from all walks of life, but that poorer women put their lives at much greater risk than wealthier women.

More affluent women are more likely to survive an abortion because they have the money to access safer clinics. On the other hand, Citizens' Human Rights Advocacy, a non-governmental organization, conducted a study that found Brazilian women who suffer complications or die from botched abortions are poor, black, and uneducated.

Gleyde Selma da Hora, the organization's executive director, explains the reasons why poor women get abortions: "Poor women who undergo abortions already have an average of three children and maintain that they are unable to guarantee a decent life for an additional child; others claim they cannot count on their partners to share the responsibility; and there are also some who say that the condom ripped and the pregnancy was unwanted."

On a day-to-day basis, Brazilian law currently fails to protect women who seek an abortion under acceptable conditions as a result of the unremitting hostility of the Church.

The government study supports the university's finding that a woman who decides to have an abortion comes from any socioeconomic class. Marcelo Medeiros, the economist and sociologist who coordinated the government-funded study, concluded that in Brazil a woman who seeks an abortion is, "A typical Brazilian woman. She could be your cousin, your mother, your sister or your neighbor."

Despite the common notion that only poor, uneducated women get abortions, these studies prove that women of varying race, economic class, and marital status all seek abortions.

Roman Catholic Church's Control

The Roman Catholic Church puts tremendous pressure on Brazil's government to continue to proscribe abortion. Brazil has the highest number of Roman Catholics in the entire world with over 140,000,000 claiming the faith. The Roman Catholic Church stands fiercely opposed to abortion and contraception.

Bishops frequently remind people that the use and promotion of contraceptives constitute an excommunicable offense. In 2008, Brazil's Catholic Archbishop José Cardoso Sobrinho condemned the distribution of the morning-after pill in the city of Recife during the Carnaval festival, and warned that those who use the pill are subject to excommunication.

Abortion is also an excommunicable offense, not only for the woman, but for anyone involved in carrying out her decision, such as parents and doctors.

The Church's use of excommunication induces great fear in doctors and politicians alike. The most egregious case of the Catholic Church's use of excommunication in response to an abortion occurred in 2009 when a nine-year-old girl was raped by her stepfather and impregnated with twins. Doctors recommended an abortion because her uterus was too small to carry one infant, let alone two.

Archbishop José Cardoso Sobrinho excommunicated the girl's mother as well as the doctor who performed the abortion, citing its illegality according to Church law. The doctor defended his decision by saying that he performed a legal abortion because the girl had been raped and was facing a life-threatening pregnancy.

On his way to Brazil, as part of his tour of Catholic nations, Pope Benedict XVI spoke to reporters aboard his plane, supporting the excommunication of politicians who in any way legalize abortion.

During the Pope's visit to Brazil, he emphasized that the Church places the right to life above all else. In his first address to the Brazilian people, he told them of his belief that life must be valued and respected "from conception to its natural decline."

His public appearances over the course of his five-day visit emphasized the Church's strong line against abortion. In an overwhelmingly Catholic country, it is no surprise that Brazilian politicians are afraid to break from the Church's adamancy on the subject.

Sending Mixed Signals

Brazilian authorities are sending mixed messages to their citizens as to whether the abortion statute will be changed. The government has taken some efforts to remedy the situation by striving to decrease the number of illegal abortions. The health ministry offers free contraceptives - from condoms to contraceptive pills to vasectomies - in all of Brazil's 5,565 municipalities.

Since 2003, the government has increased its spending on contraceptives sevenfold. The health ministry also makes morning after pills available at metro stations in the country's most populous state, São Paulo.

In April 2007, Health Minister José Gomes Temporão declared that illegal abortions are a "public-health problem," and has called for a public forum in which to discuss its legalization. Dr. Adson França, special assistant to Health Minister Temporão, asserts that women should be allowed to decide how many children to have.

By offering free contraceptives, the government is attempting to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. This program is proving to be ineffective as the number of illicit abortions remains steady at 1,000,000 per year.

Along with the Health Ministry's ineffective track record thus far, Brazil's legislature has been sending mixed signals to Brazilians on the issue of abortion. On the one hand, it appeared that congress was moving towards decriminalizing abortion. For seventeen years, the Brazilian legislature debated the loosening of restrictions on abortions.

In 2008, however, Brazil's lower legislative house, the Chamber of Deputies, tabled two bills decriminalizing abortion by an impressive 30-4 vote, ending all hopes possessed by pro-choice advocates. The vote came after Eduardo Cunha, the head of the Constitution, Justice, and Citizenship Committee, rejected the legislation.

Cunha said, "The right to life constitutes the supreme value of the Constitution, because all other rights are derived from it." He also noted that not even a constitutional amendment can abolish the right to life.

Furthermore, Brazil's Congress is now proposing even more burdensome restrictions on abortion. It is working on a draft bill that grants unconditional protection for the unborn. The draft bill intends to criminalize any statement that promotes abortion, as well as any act that intentionally causes death to or harms the fetus, including the freezing, manipulation or the use of it as material for scientific experimentation.

This law would make potential criminals of women who have miscarriages, as well as, those people who dare utter a word in favor of comprehensive reproductive healthcare. All information so far indicates that the prohibition of abortion is not working and should be repealed, not strengthened. Many Brazilian health professionals hope Congress does not pass this legislation and that future legislators will be more liberal.

The million of illegal abortions every year is an indication that Brazil's current ban on abortion puts millions of women in grave danger, and government efforts to limit unwanted abortions amount to nothing at all.

President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, who is personally pro-life, is publicly calling for the topic to be discussed as a public-health issue rather than a moral one. Lula, perfectly aware of the excommunication controversy surrounding the nine-year-old, has said, "In this case, the medical profession was more right than the Church," and, "As a Christian and a Catholic I deeply regret that a bishop of the Catholic Church has such a conservative attitude."

But despite President Lula's rather strong words against the Church, during the first seven years of his administration, he has done little to encourage a public discussion about the issue of legalizing abortion.

However, in December of last year, Lula sent a proposal to Congress requesting bills on several human rights initiatives, including the decriminalization of abortion. This proposal has been lambasted by pro-lifers in the Congress, the Catholic Church, and the National Congress of Brazilian Bishops.

Lula's sudden call for action on the issue of decriminalization may be due to the fact that 2010 will not be an election year for him because Brazil's constitution limits presidents to two terms. One of the stated goals of Lula's presidency was to reduce the maternal mortality rate because the fourth leading cause of maternal premature deaths is unsafe abortions.

The fact that maternal mortality has remained relatively constant for Lula's presidency indicates that he is failing to achieve this goal as a result of his indecisive policies.

Considering Brazil's economic status and sterling accomplishments in other health-related fields, the country's alarming maternal mortality rates can be classified as unreasonably high.

Lula is attempting to get Congress to initiate a series of liberal reforms, including the legalization of abortion, to improve his legacy as a progressive leader.

Despite the life-threatening nature of abortion, a majority of Brazilians do not seem to want a substantial change. According to a 2007 survey by DataFolha, 65% of Brazilians believe the current law on abortions should remain unchanged.

Only 10% believe that they should be decriminalized outright, and 16% believe the law should be modified to include other categories where abortion should be allowed. While Congress debates tightening regulations on abortions, one study has shown that almost no one wants to tighten restrictions.

Most public health officials favor decriminalizing abortion. President Lula, Health Minister Temporão, among others, believe abortion is a public health issue and not a moral one. In fact, Minister Temporão has said, "From the public health standpoint, I am in favor of legalization."

The Health Ministry tried to make things easier for women by instructing doctors to perform abortions in the case of rape without a police report. However, many doctors still require one because they fear adverse legal repercussions. The Health Ministry is working on changing the law so that women do not need a police report for an abortion.

Of all the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India, and China), Brazil is the only one where abortion remains illegal. Furthermore, Brazil aspires to be a developed nation, and no developed country has such restrictive laws on abortion, with the exception of Ireland.

If Brazil wants the international community to take it seriously as a developed nation, then it will have to change its prudential attitudes regarding abortion.

The Brazilian Church's current stance places millions of women in danger and unnecessarily forces them to risk their lives as a result of back alley abortions. However, the Draconian grip of the Roman Catholic Church makes changing abortion legislation all but impossible.

A very large percentage of Brazilian intellectuals would argue that Lula's position on abortion is opportunistic and does him little credit because he failed to change policy and did not stand up to the Church.

Brazil has already defied the Church by distributing free contraceptives because politicians acknowledge abstinence will not work. As Lula himself said, "Sex is something almost everybody likes." The writing is on the wall is clear: it is a time for action, not just for words.

John Garcia is a research associate at the Council on Hemispheric Affairs (COHA) - www.coha.org. The organization is a think tank established in 1975 to discuss and promote inter-American relationship. Email: coha@coha.org.



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Comments (57)Add Comment
ruthless deed
written by Leslie Morgan, August 04, 2010
após a trepada, não há de haver arrependimento
...
written by João da Silva, August 04, 2010

A silly article written by yet another "research associate" of COHA. Probably, this "scholar" has never stepped into Brasil. Not worth wasting time in discussing about this article. But..But..But.., to blame it on the Catholic Church shows how narrow minded the author is.
glad you posted early
written by Simpleton, August 04, 2010
On your advice Joao, I didn't read more than just the intro to the article. All I will say is yes, there is a HUGE psuedo practice of catholic mores in Brasil from what I have learned first hand. Abortions are clearly out of favor even if readily available regardless of the quality and sanitary conditions of the provider. There are those that do this (six times in one case I know of) and those that would never do and can't comprehend / accept their friends / acquaintances / family members what have done so. Being unable to provide for an unwanted child also aflicts decent families but blaming the church or even Deus isn't relevant at all.
Joao "to blame it on the Catholic Church shows how narrow minded the author is. "
written by ch.c, August 05, 2010
At least in Ireland and all over Europe, tens of thousands of children have been sexually abused and mollested.
AND The Vatican obviously never ever punished the guilty Fathers and Brothers, but has rather hidden the truth and provided impunity.

So messy and shameful, that in Ireland all those that raise their hands of having been abused decades ago or more recently, are now financially compensated.
Yesss each with around 70'000 EUROS !
Paid by who ? the Irish Church ?
Listen to the sad reality :
- about 200 millions Euros from the Irish Church.
- about 600 millions Euros from the Irish Government.
- the Irish Government is asking 200 millions from the Irish Church to make it 50/50 !

IN SHORT :
- Pay your taxes, and part of it goes to the abused people
- Give some money to the Irish Church and most of it goes back to the abused people.
- And the Vatican pays nothing...OF COURSE !
- And the Irish Church pays with IOUs !

Ohhhh and the tab keep mounting. Thus the actual 800 millions euros tab too ! Far from over obviously !

Joao, why dont You and I, also raise our hands that we too have been abused by the Irish Brothers and Fathers FUC-KERS ?
We would each earn about 90'000 dollars by our kinds Irish taxpayers CITIZENS !

Ohhh my...ohhh my...in what a fuc-king planet we live on !
continued
written by ch.c, August 05, 2010
And guess what I did not say above yet.
Welll Ireland has a very high budget deficit. Meaning the money compensation is itself paid by MORE GOVERNMENT DEBTS, by definition.
And in a country of 4,2 millions capita, already around 10'000 abused ex-children have been compensated.
NOT BAD !
But not over, as stated earlier.
THE TAB is alfready at 190 Euros..PER CAPITA ! not per tax payer

i BET THAT MANY OF THE COMPENSATED PEOPLE HAD.....MORTGAGES DEBTS PROBLEMS.
Think again if you dont read my lip !

Anyway, so it is.

And in Brazil it is not any better.
Some of your various churches have elected politicians, SADLY !
Somewhat in contradiction that churches DONT DO POLITICS !
And many of your churches have truckloads of NON re-distributed money. Such as the church owning one of your very large TV chanel.
Or the church whose leaders, a couple, were arrested in the USA, around 3v years ago, with plenty of undeclared cash, to enjoy life, and having a bank sccount in a U.S. bank with over 1 million dollars IN THEIR OWN NAME, not in the name of the church. And also having some real estate in the USA also in their own name.
Give money they say ! They will take good care of it for the unpriviledged they say.
Welll...THEY are the unpriviledged, these churches leaders.
Read their lip "thank you, poor people, to give us part of your little needed cash. You are truly a BUNCH OF GREAT IDIOTS, TRUSTING US, but....but....but....HAVE NO INTENTION THAT YOU CHANGE"


And lets face it, in the USA it is even WORSE, FAR WORSE. SADLY !

And not any better in Continental Europe, or in the UK !

Of course our Fathers & Brothers LOVE...OUR MONEY AND OUR CHILDREN !
Read my lip if you see what I mean !
ch.c
written by João da Silva, August 05, 2010

Read my lip if you see what I mean !


I read loud and clear, ch.c. Though I had vowed not to further comment on this issue, here are a couple of remarks:

1) I should have phrased my question as: "To blame it only on the Catholic church....."

2) You should have phrased YOUR statement as "Of course our Fathers & Brothers LOVE...OUR MONEY AND THEIR CHILDREN !"

You also made an excellent concluding statement:

Ohhh my...ohhh my...in what a fuc-king planet we live on !


smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/grin.gif
the world needs better rubbers...
written by asp, August 05, 2010
the rubbers out now just sufocate the dick and take the sensation away...they need to make some clingy , make you want to come from feeling so good , rubbers...you know, rubbers that can lick the balls...

a woman should have the right to a low cost abortion....
statement qualifier
written by Simpleton, August 05, 2010
If she has the right as well as haven been given the education and access to essential support not to need an abortion then she should have no right to have one regarless of cost - only her family should have that right no matter what her age, marital status and socio-economic situation.

I concur with comment regarding lousy rubbers. I find abstinence is preferable over not being able to get off after all that work to ensure she is fully satisfied.
...
written by João da Silva, August 05, 2010

I find abstinence is preferable over not being able to get off after all that work to ensure she is fully satisfied.


The current ruler of Paraguay and an ex-Bishop of the Catholic church didn't know or refused to learn the meaning of "abstinence".smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gif
A proud nation flounders under the choices of it's official leaders
written by Simpleton, August 06, 2010
Quite often chosen by the girls and women for their own reasons vs by coercion or force - Viva Viviana, Benigna e Hortensia e os crianca delas!
...
written by João da Silva, August 06, 2010

A proud nation flounders under the choices of it's official leaders


I didn't know it is election time in Zimbabwe, Simpleton. Thanks for the info.
To Peter King, where are u dear chap?
written by wiseman, August 07, 2010
wiseman
written by João da Silva, August 07, 2010

Interesting link. The following paragraph is quite touching.

Every year, students from about 50 junior and senior high schools around Japan visit Hiroshima's nursing homes for "peace studies." A-bomb survivors who reside there talk about their experiences, telling students, "Never make war, no matter what happens." They neither hold a grudge nor harbor a desire for reprisal against any nation. They earnestly pray for world peace.


Thanks for the link.
FedEx's Inhumane Treatment!!!!
written by Maurice, August 07, 2010
FedEx denies employees time off to attend their FATHERS' funeral.

Go to YouTube, search word: FedEx Inhumane Treatment.

To Joao
written by wiseman, August 08, 2010
You're welcome!

Unfortunately, we have large segments of the US population & political class who justify & defend such terrible acts. This includes the fire-bombing of Dresden & the massive deliberate bombing campaign against the German civilian population....all war crimes. Not to mention Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

Makes you really wonder about such warped logic.

So much for Peter King & his - 'we are a compassionate people'.

Here are some more interesting links:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/08/drugs-legalise-mexico-california
http://www.offnews.info/verArticulo.php?pageNum_rsRelacionadas=99&totalRows_rsRelacionadas=1003&contenidoID=23704
The following paragraph is quite touching. etc
written by ch.c, August 09, 2010
And then you criticized in the past OUR INFAMOUS NEUTRALITY !

smilies/shocked.gif

Aside of this, the man who said....never make war, whatever happens....forgot that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor by surprise, not even being at war with the USA !
Ohhh HE is right, Japan was not at war, thus commited nothing wrong, by definition.

Hmmmmm !

Ohhh and better yet on Weeman comments "This includes the fire-bombing of Dresden & the massive deliberate bombing campaign against the German civilian population....all war crimes"

Thus, in his view, no one should have done anything against Hitler. Not even the countries invaded.
And forget the many millions people killed by the nazis. And forget the 6 millions jews killed in gaz chambers !

And to my knowledge, Iraq, Afghanistan, had not invaded any country justifying their invasion, contrary to Germany.
Somewhat funny that the Idiot King pretends the USA are compassionate people !
But as I said more than once in the past, idiots are always 1000000 % sure that they are right.
Right that Iraq was full of WMDs, Not one gram found since 2003 and many hundreds of billions dollars spent !
Right that Bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan. Not one gram of him found yet despite hundreds of billions dollars spent since 2001.

Thus comparing Germany, Iraq & Afghanistan situations can only be made by True & Deep Idiots...such as Pet King, not any smarter than a duck !

Last but not least
WHO knows what is a war ?
AN ECONOMIC STIMULUS !
Nothing else !
And paid by Money Printing thus by more budget deficits !
Simple as that.
Equally correct for Germany or the USA or Japan.
I am talking about those who START A WAR !

And the USA is such a compassionate society that it is the only developed and wealthy country on earth that
- still has the death penalty and apply it.
- provide FOOD STAMPS to its under priviledged citizens.

The USA, sadly, has a Third World Mentality, until proven otherwise.

smilies/shocked.gifsmilies/shocked.gifsmilies/cry.gifsmilies/cry.gif
Wiseman aka Asskisser...."Never make war, no matter what happens."
written by Peter King, August 09, 2010
Unfortunately, we have large segments of the US population & political class who justify & defend such terrible acts. This includes the fire-bombing of Dresden & the massive deliberate bombing campaign against the German civilian population....all war crimes. Not to mention Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.


This has to be the most idiotic thing I have ever read. War crimes against Nazis? Unbelievable. I guess the V2 rocket attacks against England fall under your "cause and effect" insanity theory.
You may want someone to read your garbage before you hit the "add comment" button.
Not even your favorite butt to kiss is sticking up for you on that one......ch.c says:
Aside of this, the man who said....never make war, whatever happens....forgot that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor by surprise, not even being at war with the USA !
Ohhh HE is right, Japan was not at war, thus commited nothing wrong, by definition.Hmmmmm ! Ohhh and better yet on Weeman comments "This includes the fire-bombing of Dresden & the massive deliberate bombing campaign against the German civilian population....all war crimes"
Thus, in his view, no one should have done anything against Hitler. Not even the countries invaded.
And forget the many millions people killed by the nazis. And forget the 6 millions jews killed in gaz chambers !




Pardon me Herr Doktor, I am not too smart.......


This is still the only thing you have said that makes any sense.
To The Neutral One
written by Peter King, August 09, 2010
And to my knowledge, Iraq, Afghanistan, had not invaded any country justifying their invasion, contrary to Germany.

Well, Iraq did invade Kuwait...that's how the first Gulf War started. Did Iraq, subsequent to that war, live up to the cease fire? Remember the Use Of Force Resolution I provided you a link to?

And to my knowledge, Iraq, Afghanistan, had not invaded any country justifying their invasion, contrary to Germany.

We're not fighting the country of Afghanistan, just the militant Islamics based there....Pakistan too.

If things get too bad, we should ask the Swiss for help. I loved your theory of the highest skilled Swiss pilots duping Nazi pilots into flying their planes into mountains. Great stuff! smilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gif
To the king of idiots!
written by wiseman, August 09, 2010
WW2 was the result of Germany being screwed by the Versailles Treaty. Funny Britain & France did not declare war on the USSR when they occupied the eastern 1/2 of Poland in Sept. 1939.

The V2 rockets became operational at the very end of the war & were used in justifiable retaliation against the saturation bombing of the German civilian population.

Re. Japan's bombing of Pearl Harbor, it was a consequence of the US trade & oil embargo placed on it (an act of war) - courtsey Sec. of State Cordell Hull.

And now let's talk about Palestine...........

ALL CAUSE & EFFECT!
...
written by João da Silva, August 09, 2010

Swiss pilots duping Nazi pilots into flying their planes into mountains.


Nazi Pilots? Were all the Luftwaffe pilots required to be the card holding members of the Nazi Party? I don't think so. It is like classifying all the Pakistanis,Afghans,Iranians, etc; as "Islamo-Fascists".

As for ch.c´s comment:

WHO knows what is a war ?
AN ECONOMIC STIMULUS !


Right. For this reason, many foresee a major armed world conflict very soon. Also, the wars help to reduce the populations on both sides, don't they?



To the asskisser
written by Peter King, August 10, 2010
ALL CAUSE & EFFECT!


So......what, in your mind, justified the holocaust?

...
written by João da Silva, August 10, 2010

So......what, in your mind, justified the holocaust?


So......what,in your mind, justified the "Internment" of the Nippo-Americans during the WW2. Their slit eyes?smilies/wink.gif
Joao da Silva
written by Peter King, August 10, 2010
So......what,in your mind, justified the "Internment" of the Nippo-Americans during the WW2. Their slit eyes?


Are the two really comparable?


**I love the way you come to ch.c and asskisser's defense. smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gif
Peter King
written by João da Silva, August 10, 2010

**I love the way you come to ch.c and asskisser's defense.


And I love the way you make an arse of yourself in this forum.smilies/wink.gif
Joao da Silva
written by Peter King, August 10, 2010
And I love the way you make an arse of yourself in this forum.


Considering who you choose to defend, I take that as a compliment smilies/wink.gif...and I'll never refer to Brazilians as "Bra-zeros".

What about the question? :
Are the two really comparable?
Which two?
written by Simpleton, August 11, 2010
Peking Duck - maybe you should take some swiss, hebrew and english language classes. Wiseman only pointed out a factual underlying cause of germany's agression and neither he nor ch.c was comparing that to the current palestinian desire to pretty much do the same if they could which had other causes nor with the relatively humane interment of nippo-Americans which Joao brought up - those issues were ALL CAUSE & EFFECT. If you've got something to stipulate as being germany's cause for effecting the holocost then just spit it out man. (BTW I don't think I share Joao's amusement with your arsedness - are you Realgivp in disguise?)

Don't have a clue how we got into all this. Are we really meaning to somehow associate these all with 5K women dying from botched back street abortions? The Catholic church is somehow the linkage / underlying cause for it all?
What justified the Holocaust ?????
written by ch.c, August 11, 2010
Welllll....dear idiots who pretend to know, and then know nothing :
A ARIAN SOCIETY !

And as to the Swiss Pilots :
at least they would have not needed all the B52 bombers, fighters, tanks, artilleries, napalm bombs to win the war against Vietnam peasants !
GUARANTEED !
YOU LOST....HUMILIATED !

And despite modernized armaments, and over a trillion dollars spent since Iraq and Afghanistan invasions....YOU ARE STILL NOT....WINNING THE WAR OVER THERE !

HUMILIATED YOU ARE...TWICE MORE...AND AT THE SAME TIME...THIS TIME !

Lets face it The Gringos would not even win a war at a Play Station war game ! Even if you would spent 2 trillion dollars....trying to win !

NUTS, ROTTEN NUTS, STINKY NUTS.....YOU ARE !

And to Joao with his soon to be NEW war :
NOT IMPOSSIBLE...in the coming years !
IRAN !
But first the Gringos would need to come out of at least either Iraq or Afghanistan ! Or both !

North Korea ? NOOOOO WAY !
They have 6 millions soldiers...trained, ready AND.... brainwashed !
And many thousands of missiles pointed to....SOUTH KOREA !
Chessmate...AMERICA-BANANAS !

Dont forget....EVEN THERE YOU HAVE STILL NOT WIN !
You are still officially at war with NORTH KOREA !
No treaty or ceasefire was ever signed....yet...after SEVERAL DECADES !!!!!

Keep your tens military bases around the World.
This will still provide you with many thousands and thousands jobs....AND BUDGET DEFICITS !

Better to make wars and have military bases the world over, instead of building and maintaining nice infrastructures...IN AMERICA.....for the benefits of the whole AMERICAN society.

YOU CANT AND WONT HAVE IT ALL...IDIOTS !

What a great AUTOGOAAAALSSSSS...SING THE...WORLD CHAMPIONS !
So idiots...they havent realized it yet.

Just refer to my repeated statement "Idiots are always 1'000'000 % sure that right they are"

DECADENCE AT ITS BEST !

Ohhhh my....ohhhh my !
1,000,000% sure
written by Simpleton, August 11, 2010
Joao, please don't spring the trap I laid - let someone who's ass you don't kiss have a chance to humble himself regarding the high value added and quality of his mother tongue (lack thereof wink wink).
Simpleton
written by João da Silva, August 11, 2010

Joao, please don't spring the trap I laid


Thanks Simpleton for warning me. I do not intend responding to HM on his persistent attempts to get my views on "holocaust". As we say in Portuguese, he is "batendo na mesma tecla" forgetting that many more genocides were committed by other "Strongmen" in several other countries after that idiot Hitler.



ch.c
written by João da Silva, August 11, 2010

Welllll....dear idiots who pretend to know, and then know nothing :
A ARIAN SOCIETY !


Please clarify if A) Herr.Hitler was an ARYAN. B) Monsieur. Sarko is an ARYAN C) You are an ARYAN.smilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/grin.gif

And to Joao with his soon to be NEW war :
NOT IMPOSSIBLE...in the coming years !
IRAN !


I give 3 years.smilies/sad.gif
Pet King "and I'll never refer to Brazilians as "Bra-zeros".
written by ch.c, August 11, 2010
And what about America-bananas ?
In a decade or so I will change your nickname to DOLL-ARSE !
Because you will have to pay several dollars..PER BANANA !

And I will never refer to Brazilians as "Braz-heros"
And you will get the nickname of Pet Kong ! Not King Kong, for sure.

Enjoy your mega real estate MELTDOWN ! You deserve it !
Tell your Black President, with white teeths and at the White House to teach you how to build....african huts. You will need them by the millionssss !
Look at His face...with his purple lipstick !
His new motto not yet public but will be announced in December, after the elections...."YESSSSS WE CAN'T reduce our debts to GDP in the future. But...but...but....YESS WE CAN AND WILL...INCREASE THEM FURTHER....YEAR AFTER YEAR. AND THE MORE...THE BETTER !
Because in Americans WE DONT TRUST !"

smilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/shocked.gif
Classic
written by Peter King, August 11, 2010
Tell your Black President, with white teeths and at the White House to teach you how to build....african huts.


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Dsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/cheesy.gif



All the best to you.

Joao "Sarko is an ARYAN"
written by ch.c, August 12, 2010
Certainly NOT to my knowledge.
IS HE BLOND WITH BLUE EYES ?
Do some research of what an aryan is, as per the germans in those days.

I am aryan ! With blue eyes.
Agreed, half aryan only. Because on the top of my head, some hairs have gone with the wind ! But by far not as bald as Serra !

smilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/wink.gif

And as to Monkey Kong......your President is also a junkie : look at his purple lipstick ! He should then also change his haircut style.
Ohhh on his purple lipstick, it was found to much amusement that Gordon Brown always had a bag with his MAKE UP, wherever he went ! Very true story.

I could also say that Ohhlala is like the touches of a Piano. Are pianos touches not... black and white ?

Hmmmm smilies/grin.gif
Ohhh and on brasilianas botched due to Your Churches !!!!
written by ch.c, August 12, 2010
Wellll.... in South America, Europe, Africa....Churches Brothers and Fathers found the right solution.
They "take care" of their "beloved" children !
Because neither boys and girls will need a botching !
They are just a little bit...butchered, if you see what I mean !

The new motto of the Vatican ?
No longer IN GOD WE TRUST !

But IN f**kS WE LOVE AND TRUST !

Just ask your neighbour President...LUGO !

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ch.c
written by João da Silva, August 12, 2010

Joao "Sarko is an ARYAN"


No, he is certainly not. I went through his biography when the French became the pioneers in "outsourcing" their Presidency. Following their example, our American friends did the same in 2008 and I get a strong feeling we too are going to do it this year.smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/grin.gif

I am aryan ! With blue eyes.
Agreed, half aryan only. Because on the top of my head, some hairs have gone with the wind ! But by far not as bald as Serra !


I don't think that your rants against PBO is because he is black and you are "half Aryan"smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gif . We both know competence/incompetence is not the monopoly of just one race.smilies/wink.gif
ch.c
written by João da Silva, August 12, 2010

Just ask your neighbour President...LUGO !


The poor man is diagnosed with cancer, ch.c and he is in no mental or physical conditions to answer any of your questions.smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gif
We both know competence/incompetence is not the monopoly of just one race
written by ch.c, August 12, 2010
VERY TRUE !
So when do you expect your blacks citizens to be elected in your municipalities, cities, states, in the senate, congress or as your Country President ?????
Or as high officials in your so many state owned/controlled or public companies ?

WHEN, Joao ?


Good question, isnt it ?
Thus I expect a good answer too !

As to Lugo, I have no question. Just another Church f**ker was my point.
ch.c
written by João da Silva, August 12, 2010

Good question, isnt it ?


A very good question indeed, though you are addressing it to a wrong person. Since "competence" is not a prerequisite for an elected post, the chances of a "black" person getting elected for high posts are as good as that of PBO. Provided he plays the "right card" and is willing to turn into a "laranja" for his "sponsors". Since you know so much about Geopolitics, you should be aware that such "sponsors" are color blind.smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gif

I bet you perfectly understood what I wanted to say.smilies/cool.gif
Since you know so much about Geopolitics, you should be aware that such "sponsors" are color blind
written by ch.c, August 12, 2010
NOT SO, NOT SO !
They Looooove the greenback currency....these idiots !
So they are not as color blinded as you pretend. smilies/grin.gif

If I was them, I would have chosen the beautiful 1000 Swiss Francs banknotes ! I read recently that a million dollars in 100 dollars bills weights 22 pounds.
Although I dont know the weight in 1000 Swiss francs, I can tell you that the height of the stack is 13 centimenters...If I recall correctly. Better yet....gaining in value over the years against the greenback....not really totally backed !

Have you already seen these chocolates tablets having a packaging of a gold bar ?
Wellll...you can easily put inside 100 bills in 1000 Swiss francs notes !

And these 1000 Swiss francs bills started to be issued in 1907 ! Yessss....yesssss, 1907
Just imagine the then buying power in those days.
And still very much in use today...very regularly.
No later than today I bought 2 packs of cigarettes with a 1000 francs bill. No problem with the change back, despite it was at a small tobacco shop !

Look at it, look at it.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CHF_Banknotes.jpg

Unique !

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ch.c
written by João da Silva, August 12, 2010

So they are not as color blinded as you pretend.


You may be right in this instance, ch.c. For example, your buddy Peter, the great king, was soooo happy when you bashed his President and he was the first one to express his joy . I got a distinct impression that he hates PBO, just because he is black and his hatred has nothing to do with PBO´s incompetence. In other words, HM is a racial bigot.smilies/wink.gif
To the king of idiots
written by wiseman, August 12, 2010
There are & have been many holocausts. Which 1 are you refering to?
To Simpleton
written by wiseman, August 12, 2010
How did we digress from the title of this thread. I agree with you that the historical influence of the Catholic Church that has shaped our Judeo/Christian ethos plays a big role in these poor hapless womens' deaths.

At the end of the day it's all about controlling the masses - religion being the opium of the masses!


wiseman
written by João da Silva, August 12, 2010

How did we digress from the title of this thread.


Partly because of ch.c and partly because of me. I fully assume responsibility for this digression, though. smilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/grin.gif
I got a distinct impression that he hates PBO, just because he is black and his hatred has nothing to do with PBO´s incompetence. In other words, HM is a racial bigot.
written by ch.c, August 12, 2010
Yessssss...he was taken for a ride by a black with white teeths !

And to the NOT so wiseman with his many holocausts :
Could you spell at least three of them...You who knows ?
Or 2 outside of the Jews extermination during WWII ?

Impatient for your answers !
To the impatient cartisian
written by wiseman, August 13, 2010
The Americas' indigenous populations
Australia's indigenous population
The Yugoslav slaughterhouse
The Spanish Inquisition
The Armenian massecere
Belgian Congo, Rwanda, Europe's Gypsies, Kurdistan, Iraq, Algeria, Vietnam, Palestine, Afghanistan, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc. etc. etc.

'Mostly' but not all perpetrated by 'Europeans'......The comparisons may not be apples to apples, but the general intent in all of these were essentially the same. The timeframes involved & methods used have been different in each case based on the available resources & technologies available to the perpetrators.

And BTW many Germans dont have blond hair or blue eyes & many Ashkenazi Jews have blond hair & blue eyes. Your simplistic interpretation of WW2 German ethnic cleansing of European Jews is rather superficial.

To be objective, the Helvetian record vs. a vs. European Jews has not been quite that stellar either. I am sure Herr Doktor that you will provide me with an interesting & informative response.
ch.c
written by João da Silva, August 13, 2010

I am sure Herr Doktor that you will provide me with an interesting & informative response.


I am sure Herr.Dok will oblige you after his customary Friday morning "visit" to the indoor swimming pool, fully "refreshed". smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/grin.gif

P.S: I remain "neutral" in the "ever brewing" conflict between the Swiss and the Yanks.smilies/smiley.gifsmilies/wink.gif
Neutrality?
written by adrianerik, August 13, 2010
And fortunately for the Swiss, the Yanks remain neutral in the conflict(?).
...
written by João da Silva, August 13, 2010

And fortunately for the Swiss, the Yanks remain neutral in the conflict(?).


I dunno Doc.If I were ya, I ´d say "fortunately for the Yanks", the Swiss always remained "neutral". IMHO, (which doesn't count ), the Swiss had all those bunkers, tunnels, etc; during the WW2 to repel the attacks by the "allies" and not by the Germans. You must know that the Swiss and Germans belong to the Aryan tribe and as we say are all "primos".smilies/cheesy.gif

Regardless, I still continue remaining "neutral".smilies/cool.gif
Dead dogs
written by Simpleton, August 13, 2010
don't roll over and play not even to play dead. On rare occasions you do grow a back bone and not remain nuetered Joao, we like that.
To the NOT SO WISEMAN !!!!!!
written by ch.c, August 16, 2010
You are about right for your examples.
Except...except...that this is not what is called THE HOLOCAUST !
Sorry for you !

And about your "The Americas' indigenous populations"....are you referring to YOUR ANCESTRORS WHO KILLED THE NATIVES ?
NOT MY ANCESTRORS....FOR SURE !

And for Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?
Wellll I can only say this : If I was the President of the USA, there would have been a lot more H bombs over there !
I would have flatten out the whole country. As flat as a table top..with some holes as big as the Grand Canyon !
To thank the nippons for having bombarded Pearl Harbour without any declaration of war ! Not even a political tension.
It would have been a surprise surprise....just as nippons surprised the USA !



And exactly the same for SOUTH AMERICANS NON INDIANS...including Brazilians and their Indians ! Not only the USA and their Indians !
Again...NOT MY ANCESTRORS...FOR SURE !

And to Joao "the Swiss had all those bunkers, tunnels, etc; during the WW2 to repel the attacks by the "allies" and not by the Germans."
Stop sniffing ethanol.
Neither Germans nor the allies were ever allowed to enter our territory.

And to Adrianerik-a " the Yanks remain neutral in the conflict(?). "
Yesss we have seen it, in Vietnam, North Korea, AND NOW Iraq and Afghanistan !


And as to the The Yugoslav slaughterhouse ?
Ohhhh yesssssss.....Serbia made a nice butchery over there !
But no one can accuse the USA THIS TIME. Europeans just begged begged and begged the USA to help them invade the ex-Yougoslavia !
And this despite the europeans massive armaments.
Believe it or not, but sadly true, europeans pretended Serbia had the World 4th most powerful army.
Thus europeans had NOT the courage to go there...by themselves.

You see that I will never ever take the side of the INVADERS !

Ohhhh the NOT SO WISEMAN....were your given examples...with people who went to gaz chambers ?
NO ?
Then it was NOT OTHER HOLOCAUSTS as you pretended.
But Genocides !
NOT THE SAME AT ALL !

Glad that over here...we dont like what others LOVED AND STILL LOVE, simply disguised differently !

You forgot the Italians and MUSSOLINI ! Not so innocent either !

And even Belgium and the Netherlands. They too had their Africans Gardens !

And the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians too...much earlier had their empire ! But they did not know what to do with gaz. Thus too it was NOT ANOTHER HOLOCAUST !

Glad the Russians...did not know either what could be done with gaz.
They too exterminated...millions of opponents...in their own country. Or may be they knew, but did not find out their massive gaz reserves...in those days !

Hmmmmm....hmmmmmm !


Take a deep breath ch.c
written by adrianerik, August 17, 2010
Ummm...I think that my statement of "neutrality" went a bit over your head, my friend.

Anyhow....nothing to gain here.

I will state my opinion that the reason your tiny nation of a few million (about 6 or 7 million, isn't it?) wasn't and won't be invaded is that you all are such a free-loving whore of a nation.

The basis of your economy is exports, isn't that correct?

And you open your legs (economically speaking) to any country with a dick...err..umm...I mean money.

And despite the money pouring into Switzerland, you have to keep that SF artificially low...not too good for exports.

Don't worry, all those minor things such as your energy dependence, your necessity imports will be taken care of by those countries who realize that sometimes you have to take principled stands against bad guys to keep the world capitalist economy humming....keep oil flowing and keep raw material coming...so that your banks...about 11% of your economy can stay afloat.

(don't worry, you coward nations can thank us later)

So as long as you play your role of the good whore, opening your legs for free, there is no need to bitch-slap you.

But, of course, you still have that pent-up anger in Switzerland which is why you guys bitch-slap your own women, having such a high incidence of domestic abuse...something around 20%, isn't it.

I guess this is how you practice for the defense of the country.

You could release that tension by having a much more vibrant cultural life (you guys are a bit boring). But as your cultural minister admits herself "we depend upon the external countries feeding their cultures into Switzerland"). The Germans, the French, the Italians.

What a shame...a country that is about 100% literate, but nobody has a damn clue in their head what to write about...besides the Best Inns and the best wines.

Anyhow, we'll call you guys when we need something.

Now...back to neutrality.
...
written by João da Silva, August 17, 2010

Now...back to neutrality.


Welcome back to "neutrality".smilies/wink.gif
Adrian..nick...nick " wasn't and won't be invaded is that you all are such a free-loving whore of a nation. "
written by ch.c, August 19, 2010
1) Dont worry for our exports ! We (population 7,8 millions) export as much as the Braz-zeroes (population 200 millions). The difference is in VALUE ADDED GOODS contrary to the Braz-zeroes value goods.
And believe it or not, WE IMPORT AS MUCH AS THE WHOLE MEGA BRAZIL !

2) Concerning your legs opening statement you FIRST BETTER LOOK AT THE RANKING OF THE COUNTRIES THE MOST...LEGS OPEN ! Otherwise....your critics are worth less than a 1930 Brazilian centavo.
Here is not my but the FORBES ranking, wether you like or not
http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/06/tax-havens-delaware-bermuda-markets-singapore-belgium_slide_2.html

Ohhh and the most stupid question from an idiot like me to an even MORE IDIOT like You Adrian...nick...nick :
IS DELAWARE...A COUNTRY ?
More than doubtful YOU understood where the FORBES DART WAS DIRECTED !
aND TO MY KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE......the banking capital of South America is not Zurich or Geneva, but....but.....Miami, New York, San Diego, Los Angeles. And also the state of Arkansas, Texas and Arizona for specifically Mexican money !

About ONLY Mexican drug money...READ THIS ARTICLE....TRIPLE IDIOT...who is 10000000000 % sure that Americans BANKS are so innocent :
http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aXf9c5B9KWfA

And the source is not from Switzerland medias targeting the USA...to my knowledge.
But the opposite is so often the case, sadly !

And to my humble knowledge, Wells Fargo, Wachovia, HSBC, American Express, Bank of America, Banco Santander, Citigroup are NOT SWISS BANKS doing business in America !
And believe it or not, the smaller U.S.A. regional banks are even much deeper involved. Simply not mentioned...as usual ! They are the ones begging for MORE BUSINESS regardless of the sources of the money.

Fact is that America is rear and mouth open, if Switzerland is legs open as you stated !

Ohhhh and a last word on swiss exports : every swiss capita export about 23 times MORE than the country with the Endemic Navel Caressing Disease Brazil has ! Same ratio for imports, by the way !
Ohhhh and just to irritate you a little deeper, be informed that today was announced that for July, we just had OUR HISTORICAL LARGEST TRADE....SURPLUS ! Not bad when the world economy is still recovering.
And even better when OUR CURRENCY STRENGHTENED !

I know, I know, losers can only criticize WINNERS !
Fact being....what else can they really do ?

In short LOSERS are very good at the Goebbels motto "Lie...lie...lie...something will always remain"
True for All the Americas. From North to Central to South...until proven otherwise with FACTS AND NOT SIMPLE AND FREE ALLEGATIONS !

Facts being that even American companies more and more are either puting their European headquarters in Switzerland, leaving their previous European HQ country. And better yet are even moving their WORLD HQ to Switzerland. Including Transocean and Foster Wheeler...if you did not know...yet !

WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS.....as per Freddy Mercury great song !



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To Cartisean
written by wiseman, August 19, 2010
Lets not get caught up in semantics, genocides, holocausts, to me it's all the same, only the methods differ. besides in your round about manner you unknowingly reinforced my point.

& btw, why such vindictiveness against the Japanese. Is it because Sony, Seiko, etc. almost put the Rolex's of this world out of biz.
...
written by João da Silva, August 20, 2010

Is it because Sony, Seiko, etc. almost put the Rolex's of this world out of biz.


You touched the proverbial "raw nerve".smilies/cool.gif
Evangelists also to blame
written by Steven, August 25, 2010
ALL the church congregations in Brazil are to blame for this tragedy. As in any other civilized country abortion should be legalized up to minimum 12 weeks, and abortion clinics should be financed 100% by the state. Why? Take a trip around my homecity of Rio and see the thousands of abandoned street urchins, whohave run away/been chased away by their parents. Poor families have often no idea of family planning, contraceptives etc and keeps on producing children they cannot afford to feed. This sad situation keeps on repeating itself and is only worsening. A typical example was shown on tv the other day, a young favela girl, unmarried, unemployed, barely 20, with 4 children with 4 different fathers. No 5 was on the way. I bet neither the catholic nor the evangelists are willing to educate, feed and cloth her children. But they are adamant that she should know nothing of contraceptives and be arrested if she risked an abortion. Loco.
Man and God or God and man?
written by mike stafford, March 04, 2011
Years ago many thought, abortion was ok, calling it only a blob of tissue! With todays technology, you can only call it murder! The problem with the Church and world, is that in 1969 the Church betrayed everyone by handing over much of its power to the Freemasons! During Vatican II they agreed not to speakout against the evils of Freemasons! Today 100's of millions have left the Church to join another religion, that does not bear the GOOD fruit that come from the Church! Not until God sends his messenger to purify the Priesthood, will this evil stop!

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