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Arrogant and Cynical: The Way the US Appears in Brazil from Wikileaks Portrait PDF Print E-mail
2010 - December 2010
Written by Nikolas Kozloff   
Wednesday, 01 December 2010 00:56

John Danilovich As more and more documents become available from Wikileaks, the public has gotten a novel and close up view of U.S. diplomats and their operations abroad. I was particularly interested to review heretofore secret documents dealing with Latin America, a region which has absorbed the attention of Washington officials in recent years.

While it's certainly no secret that the Bush administration, not to mention the later Obama White House, have both sought to isolate the so-called "Pink Tide" of leftist regimes in South America, the Wikileaks documents give us some interesting insight into the mindset of U.S. diplomats as they carry out their day to day work.

Needless to say, the picture that emerges isn't too flattering.

Take, for example, a 2005 cable from the U.S. Embassy in Brasília (1) which details a high level conversation which took place between the American ambassador, John Danilovich, and Brazilian General Jorge Armando Felix. A longtime businessman, Danilovich spent 20 years in the shipping industry in London and it was there that the American organized voters for George Bush and his father. A big time GOP donor, Danilovich proved a loyal lieutenant at his post in Brasília, specifically by opposing the left turn in South America.

In 2005, Hugo Chávez was at the height of his political powers, challenging the unpopular Bush regime throughout the region. Over in Bolivia meanwhile, Washington fretted that an erstwhile coca farmer, Evo Morales, might win his country's presidential election.

For Washington, Brazil had become a country of vital geopolitical importance: if President Lula could be persuaded to drop his support of neighboring Venezuela, then the U.S. would certainly be more successful at halting the region's leftist advance. In the effort to turn back the Pink Tide, Danilovich was a key figure.

Speaking with the Brazilian daily O Estado de S, Paulo, the diplomat accused Chávez of actually funding political forces within Bolivia. Seeking to foster a common U.S.-Brazilian front, Danilovich said the funding was a concern for Washington and ought to preoccupy officials in Brasília as well. When reporters asked Danilovich whether he was accusing Chávez of directly funding Morales' campaign, the diplomat would not specify [Morales himself denied the U.S. allegations].

Behind closed doors, Danilovich continued his diplomatic offensive. After lunching with General Felix, the ambassador broached the subject of Venezuela, noting that Chávez was "disrupting Brazil's efforts to play a leading role politically and economically in South America." It's unclear from the cable what Felix might have thought about the ambassador's comments, though reading between the lines it seems the military man may have been sympathetic toward the U.S. and disagreed with his own government's official policy toward Venezuela.

Since we don't have the full text of Danilovich's cable, it's unclear whether the diplomat approached other figures in the Lula government about Venezuela, let alone military officials. To be sure, at the time of this meeting Felix was working as Lula's own Minister of Internal Security and as such no longer occupied an official post within the ranks.

Yet, there are some disturbing parallels to the historic past here. Consider that it was not too long ago that Washington collaborated with the anti-Communist Brazilian military which overthrew democracy in a coup. Later, the armed forces hunted down leftists both within the country and abroad through so-called "Operation Condor."

From Brazil to Argentina

Elsewhere in South America, the U.S. has faced political opposition from some unlikely quarters. Take for example Argentina, up until recently a fairly reliable U.S. ally which followed the Washington economic consensus. With the coming to power of Néstor Kirchner and his wife Cristina Fernández de Kirchner however, U.S.-Argentine relations have taken a nosedive. A fierce critic of the International Monetary Fund, Néstor also pursued an unprecedented diplomatic alliance with leftist Venezuela. (2)

Wikileaks cables document the deteriorating relationship between Washington and Buenos Aires and show U.S. diplomats as imperious and scheming. Take for example a diplomatic spat between Obama's Assistant Secretary of State for Hemispheric Affairs Arturo Valenzuela and Argentine officials, an incident that I wrote about at the time. (3)

An American of Chilean descent and a Chavez critic, Valenzuela made his way to Buenos Aires late last year. Causing a diplomatic firestorm, Valenzuela declared before the local media that Argentina lacked adequate legal protections. When the government protested that such was not the case, Valenzuela clarified that he had personally spoken with representatives of American companies through the U.S. Chamber of Commerce who were upset about management of the economy. They were reluctant to invest due to lack of legal protections, Valenzuela added.

As if he had not annoyed the government enough already, Valenzuela then declared that he personally had detected a change in the investment climate between 1996 [the height of Argentina's flirtation with neo-liberal economics] when "there was a lot of enthusiasm to invest," and the present day. In a communiqué, the Argentine foreign ministry angrily retorted that the government "had not received complaints from U.S. companies which had interests and investments" in the country.

The irate chorus continued with Interior Minister Florencio Randazzo regretting that some U.S. officials had gone back to "the old practices" even though "there was an expectation in Argentina of the inauguration of a new U.S. foreign policy" during the Obama era. The Minister of Justice added that Valenzuela's remarks were "very unusual and unjustified." By far however the most incendiary remarks came from former president Néstor Kirchner who accused Valenzuela of behaving like a "viceroy."

Far from feeling contrite toward Argentina, U.S. diplomats treated the Valenzuela episode rather flippantly and superciliously. In a cable sent to Washington, recently released through Wikileaks, (4) American officials in Buenos Aires wrote that the local press had "sensationalized" and over dramatized the incident.

"Once again," diplomats remarked, "the Kirchner government has shown itself to be extremely thin-skinned and intolerant of perceived criticism." Downplaying the tenor of Valenzuela's remarks, the authors added that many Argentines routinely complain about the weakness of governing institutions and the rule of law.

It's difficult to parse what Washington's policy might be toward Argentina in the Obama era. Judging from another cable released by Wikileaks (5) , U.S. officials are still trying to sort it all out and seek to acquire as much information about the Kirchners as possible. Prior to Néstor's recent death, Secretary of State Clinton personally wrote to the American Embassy in Buenos Aires, remarking that the U.S. was drawing up "a written product examining the interpersonal dynamics between the governing tandem."

Clinton added that State had a pretty "solid understanding" of Néstor's style and personality, but Cristina remained a mystery. Specifically, Clinton wanted to know how Cristina managed "her nerves and anxiety." Somewhat bizarrely, Clinton then asked her subordinates whether Cristina was taking any medications. Again and again, the Secretary of State pressed for details about Cristina's psychological and emotional profile.

Though certainly intriguing, the Wikileaks cable fails to answer a vital question: why would Clinton seek a psychological evaluation of Cristina in the first place? Perhaps, the United States government simply lacked information about the Argentine president and wanted to know who it was dealing with in South America.

Another darker reading however is that the U.S. does not trust Argentina and is seeking to manipulate Cristina or uncover some dirt. A Machiavellian if there ever was one, Clinton is surely capable of playing political hardball and engaging in diplomatic intrigue.

For far too long, the U.S. public has remained ignorant of its government's overseas efforts to turn back Latin America's leftist Pink Tide. Though scant thus far, Wikileaks' release of documents pertaining to Latin America is telling.

From Brazil to Argentina, American officials have emerged as an imperious and cynical lot. Hopefully in the days ahead we may learn more about the Bush and Obama administration's handling not only of Brazil and Argentina but also Venezuela, Bolivia, and Honduras.

Nikolas Kozloff, Ph.D. is a former COHA Senior Research Fellow and is the author of Revolution! South America and the Rise of the New Left.
Some of his other posts are available at www.nikolaskozloff.com

Links:

(1) http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2005/05/05BRASILIA1207.html

(2) http://www.nikolaskozloff.com/blog.htm?post=711517

(3) http://www.nikolaskozloff.com/blog.htm?post=673532

(4) http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2009/12/09BUENOSAIRES1311.html

(5) http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2009/12/09STATE132349.html

Nikolas Kozloff is a former senior research associate at the Council on Hemispheric Affairs (COHA) - www.coha.org. The organization is a think tank established in 1975 to discuss and promote inter-American relationship. Email: coha@coha.org.



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Comments (102)Add Comment
...
written by Gringo I, December 01, 2010
Fonte: http://www.politicaexterna.com/#ixzz16qTS2tY0
http://www.politicaexterna.com

The difficulty is most apparent in the Ministry for External Affairs (MRE) which maintains an anti-American slant and has tried to block improved DoD-MOD relations. In planning for Jobim,s visit, the MRE actively campaigned to limit Jobim,s time in Washington to one largely ceremonial day with little substance.


Fonte: http://www.politicaexterna.com/#ixzz16qTjB948
http://www.politicaexterna.com

Jobim responded that Guimaraes posed a serious problem, not only on the DCA but on a variety of issues. Jobim said that Guimaraes "hates the United States" and is actively looking to create problems in the relationship. Jobim said that he has had to beat back more than one outlandish proposal by Guimaraes calculated to upset relations with the U.S. and other industrialized countries.


Fonte: http://www.politicaexterna.com/#ixzz16qTquNux
http://www.politicaexterna.com

Jobim continues to challenge the historic supremacy of Itamaraty in all areas of foreign policy.



All of this simply confirms what most all of us have known for years. Brazil seeks disagreement with the U.S. in every possible aspect of politics.
what a bulls**t article.....wikileaks just smells american hemmoroids with great gusto
written by asp, December 01, 2010
what kind of bulls**t is this article ? is this all this mother f**ker can come up with ?

f**k him !! this mother f**ker just wants to plant himself in the middle of american hemmoroids and sniff sniff sniff

i mean what the f**k, if you are going to get into this wikileaks, then at least you have to accept what was found in the computors of the farc idiot killed in equador, incriminating totaly , chavez's involvement in totaly aidian and abetting farc

it has been proven chavez funneled money to various countries in south america to polititions to win elections...that isnt imperialistic ? f**k you

do some brazilian polititions hate the usa ? does a f**king bear s**t in the woods ? is batisti going to get to stay in brazil ?

the hypocricy is mind boggling

oh, this idiot used to work for coha ? why am i not f**king surprised

bulls**t bulls**t bulls**t

are mother f**kers loving smelling american hemmoroids with these wikileaks ? oh hell yeah

f**k american hemmoroid smellers, get the f**k out of smelling a*****es
...
written by João da Silva, December 01, 2010

Jobim continues to challenge the historic supremacy of Itamaraty in all areas of foreign policy.


But...but...but... is Jobin going to retain his job in the "new administration"?
Captain Kirk
written by João da Silva, December 01, 2010

Do you have anything to comment on the colorful comments of our distinguished, erudite, scholarly,etc,etc,etc; fellow blogger ASP? smilies/wink.gif

Or..Or..Or.. have you decided to sit on top of the wall (as usual)?smilies/cool.gif
Imperious and Cynical?
written by LA Viking, December 01, 2010
I don't doubt that American diplomats act imperious and cynical at times. Frankly, my experience with diplomats is that they all act that way at times.

But, I find nothing in the description of the Wikileaks cables in this article that suggests any imperious and cynical behavior.

The notion that the U.S. is trying to seek an ally in Brazil against Chavez hardly sounds imperious or cynical. It's just logical, if not obvious.

With respect to Argentina, on which most of the blog article is focused, the sins of the Kirchners are well-documented, especially over the past 3-4 years. I've spent enough time there to know that locals and foreign business people do, in fact, complain bitterly about the lack of judicial enforcement and the lack of any discernible rule of law. The idea that there is friction between the U.S. and Argentina hardly suggests cynicism or imperious behavior. Argentina is responsible for the largest bond default in history; recently seized and privatized its pension system for political purposes; has been manipulating inflation statistics for years, mostly to lower the interest rate on its bond payments; and is clearly in a precarious position from which it is trying to dig out. But, none of the cables described in the blog seem out of place whatsoever, except possibly Hillary Clinton's obsession with Cristina Kirchner's mental state.

Finally, the writer states: "For far too long, the U.S. public has remained ignorant of its government's overseas efforts to turn back Latin America's leftist Pink Tide."

This is absolutely untrue. American citizens are well aware of its government's efforts to stem the tide of socialism and Chavismo politics. This has been going on for 30-40 years, well before Chavez, and it has been well-documented and well-publicized in the US.
...
written by cúzão, December 01, 2010
These are great days. This wikileaks cable describing Brazil's submarines as 'white elephants' , and the USA's view of Brazil's military stategy, is worth a read:

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/838979-eua-fazem-duras-criticas-a-estrategia-nacional-de-defesa-leia-versao-em-ingles.shtml

Government's often say, when justifying suspension of personal privacy, that if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. So I'm really enjoying all this, having criminal activity and outright lies exposed in large number at the government level. Real damage claims are exaggerated imho, while the deserved embarassment is very real.

On the other hand, I find the discourse in the leaks professional, albeit not exactly aligned with what has spun to the masses.
Question for Joao da Silva
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 01, 2010

Joao da Silva: But...but...but... is Jobin going to retain his job in the "new administration"?


*****


Ricardo: This gives Dilma Rousseff the opportunity to replace Jobin with General Augusto Heleno Ribeiro Pereira

But I have a question for you Joao:

Here in the United States a military person such as Colin Powell, can't serve as Secretary of Defense until 10 years have passed since that person left the military forces.

That's why Colin Powell could not serve as Defense Secretary during the Bush Administration.

Do we have similar rules in Brazil that would prevent General Augusto Heleno Ribeiro Pereira from becoming the next Defense Minister in Brazil if Dilma Rousseff decides that she wants him as the Defense Minister on her cabinet?




Reply to Cuzao
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 01, 2010

This part of Americans comments on that report shows that the Americans don't have a clue about what is happening:

"While the restructuring plans generally are consistent with the goal of a modern, more capable military, (leaving aside such politically popular white elephants as a nuclear powered submarine), the strategy document is silent on how resources will be found to cover the costs of expensive new hardware including aircraft carriers, satellite constellations and fighter production."

.
Brasil - Estratégia Nacional de Defesa
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 01, 2010

Part 1 of 2

The document produced by Minister for Strategic Planning Roberto Mangabeira Unger is basically excellent, but I just would give number-one priority for the Brazilian government to create the best team of hackers in the world, and be completely prepared for “Cyberspace Warfare” coming from any country around the world against Brazil.

On June 26, 2009, President Lula announced Roberto Mangabeira Unger would be leaving the government and returning to Harvard University. His stated reason was Harvard's refusal to extend his leave of absence as a law professor at Harvard Law School.

“EUA fazem duras críticas à Estratégia Nacional de Defesa; leia versão em inglês” - Folha de Sao Paulo – Dezembro 1, 2010
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/p...gles.shtml

Here is part of his document:

On December 18, President Lula signed the National Defense Strategy, concluding a fifteen month drafting exercise. The document was principally drafted by Minister for Strategic Planning Roberto Mangabeira Unger, and it provides a security policy framework that places defense in the context of the government,s broader goal of national development. The strategy is built on the presumption that it is in Brazil,s interest to be "independent," that is able to project its military power as it wishes, able to produce its own military hardware and able to control strategic economic sectors, including space, cybernetics and nuclear power. Much of the document focuses on the future roles and structures for Brazil,s armed forces -- including updating equipment, promoting deployability and enhancing peacekeeping capabilities. It also devotes considerable space to issues such as nuclear energy, reducing imports and national civilian service that are only indirectly related to how Brazil,s armed forces will defend the country, but are crucial when defense is viewed in the context of a vision of a broader strategy for Brazil,s development into a world power. By linking reform of the security sector with the government,s broader development vision, the strategy places the military, for the first time since the end of military rule in 1985, into a prominent place on the national agenda and strengthens its case for increased resources. Comments on the strategy,s provisions for the Brazilian military will be reported septel.

INDEPENDENCE

4. (C) The strategy for defense and development is built around the concept of "independence." In the government,s vision, Brazil should be able to control its own security and not have to go outside its own borders in order to equip its security forces. The strategy allows for "strategic partners," but these are seen as countries willing to transfer to Brazil technologies that will make Brazil more independent, not as collaborators in security operations. Similarly, where Brazil currently does not have the capability to produce defense equipment, it should, according to the document, seek to purchase the appropriate articles from foreign suppliers, but with the aim of allowing for domestic production. This point is clearly illustrated by the prescriptive language on acquisition of modern fighter aircraft which rejects the "extreme solution" of simply buying foreign-made planes and calls for the Air Force to either 1) purchase aircraft of which Brazil can then produce its own upgraded variant, or 2) purchase a minimal number of foreign planes which then can be augmented by domestic production of the same model.

5. (C) The strategy also repeatedly cites three sectors as being of critical importance for the independent development of the Brazilian state: space, cybernetics and nuclear, calling for Brazil to "control" these technologies. The strategy calls for enhanced Brazilian space launch capacity, satellite monitoring and surveillance and for Brazil to deploy its own GPS-type system. Cybernetics is listed as important for communications and information processing. Although, the strategy document acknowledges that as a member of the Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT), Brazil will not have nuclear weapons, it then states that for this reason, Brazil must therefore pursue nuclear power development as an element of security that is important for Brazil,s development. This stated connection to defense of the country serves as justification for inclusion of nuclear power as a strategic industry, albeit one whose importance is more relevant to development than security. (NOTE: Nuclear energy is, in fact, one of the strategic industries enumerated in GOB,s latest Industrial Policy, published in May - see ref c. The other Industrial Policy strategic sectors are defense industry, information technology, nanotechnology, biotechnology, and healthcare industry.)

.
Brasil - Estratégia Nacional de Defesa - Part 2 of 2
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 01, 2010

Part 2 of 2


MILITARY RESTRUCTURING

6. (C) The heart of the defense strategy is its plan for the restructuring of the Brazilian military. Specific comments on plans for each service and the Ministry of Defense (MOD) will be reported septel. Much of the restructuring strategy was contributed by the services and provides practical answers to key strategic questions about how Brazil will see to its own security over the next generation. Among the conclusions are that Brazil must focus on the three key areas of monitoring/controlling large areas, strategic mobility and military presence to provide security. These areas contribute to the services, requirements for airlift, better communications, satellite reconnaissance and maritime domain awareness. The strategy notes the necessity of developing better joint service cooperation and the capabilities to conduct joint operations and the need for a professional civil service component in the Defense Ministry. There is also a clear understanding that a country with pretensions to world power status will be asked to make greater contributions to United Nations peacekeeping operations. (Brazil currently ranks just below Uruguay in regional UNPKO participation.) The strategy therefore recognizes that as Brazilian capabilities increase, so should peacekeeping deployments.

DEFENSE INDUSTRY

7. (SBU) The strategy paper,s most important goal for defense industry is to use the need to modernize the armed forces to acquire new technologies with applications for national development. To do so, the Government of Brazil is encouraged to offer tax incentives and legal benefits to these industries (tax and financing benefits are already provided under the May 2008 Industrial Policy). Unger also clearly states that commercial considerations, i.e. increased trade, must be considered subordinate to the country,s "strategic interest." Therefore, efficient use of resources and deployment of effective military capabilities are less important than stimulating domestic defense industries which are optimistically viewed as having future export potential. According to the strategy, industrial partnerships with non-Brazilian entities are advantageous as a means to reduce dependence on foreign purchase -- when the main role in the partnership is played by the Brazilian side.

10. (C) The means by which the strategy plans to democratize the armed forces will be a new form of national service. All young people will have to be available to the military which would be able to select the best qualified as its recruits. Everyone else would go into a "civil service" which would receive basic military training and be available for mobilization in the case of a national emergency of some sort. The strategy does not, however, provide any information as to what sort of national emergency would require the mobilization of potentially millions of poorly trained young Brazilians or how the basic training of about three million civil service members per year will be managed by the limited number of military professionals available.

REGIONAL FOCUS

11. (C) One of the most notable elements of the strategy has been the focus on the defense of the Amazon region. While the document notes that this region faces ongoing security challenges from uncontrolled borders and potential instability in neighboring states, it also indulges in the traditional Brazilian paranoia concerning the activities of non-governmental organizations and other shadowy foreign forces that are popularly perceived as potential threats to Brazil,s sovereignty. The strategy calls for greater use of mobility and monitoring technology to improve security in the Amazon region and for the shifting of forces north as needed to improve security there.

.







...
written by cúzão, December 01, 2010
OK, I'll bite. What is your motive for disagreement?

Um, when since WW2 has a submarine been used in combat? What is the threat? Do you think protecting oil wells are really the intended purpose?

The US navy protects several transport routes in hostile waters. I see no parallel for Brazil. I would think most people consider a naval threat to Brazil's interests as rather unlikely. I'm not even arguing they don't make sense, just that at the very least its an arguable point that a nuclear sub in 2010 is a white elephant for most third world countries.

BTW, the larger view I took reading the leak I pasted was that the conclusion - priority for Brazil's military strategy is domestic development rather than bang for buck - is about right. The leak also speculates about Brazil spending itself into a "black hole" on these white elephants. Ironically they speak from experience.

Admittedly the USA is complete mess these days in so many ways, so I don't want to imply I'm defending its foreign policy, past or present.
...
written by cúzão, December 01, 2010
"number-one priority for the Brazilian government to create the best team of hackers in the world, and be completely prepared for “Cyberspace Warfare” "

As a computer programmer for over 15 years, often in the area of security and including working previously for the Secretaria da Segurança em Brasilia and SP, imho this threat is exaggerated on the national level. I consider it on the lines of WMD, scary but entirely imaginary. I'd bore you with the details of why - and its not because of extraordinary competence - but I'll just say that's its not a likely scenario.

BTW, Iran's nuclear plants computers were attacked recently, with no significant damage. Lessons were learned, and if can't be done to them - with a long list of deep pocket enemies and few computer science graduates - once again I question the viability of the threat at the national level.

Furthermore its not a realistic proposal for Brazil - you'd know why the first time you had to buy someone with carteira assinada a pizza so he'd comply with a mandate. There isn't much you can enforce across the entire government.
Ricardo Amaral
written by João da Silva, December 01, 2010

Ricardo: This gives Dilma Rousseff the opportunity to replace Jobin with General Augusto Heleno Ribeiro Pereira


Great people think alike, Ricardo! Gen. Heleno Pereira will be an excellent replacement for Jobin. The good General is apolitical unlike Jobin!!!

Do we have similar rules in Brazil that would prevent General Augusto Heleno Ribeiro Pereira from becoming the next Defense Minister in Brazil if Dilma Rousseff decides that she wants him as the Defense Minister on her cabinet?


No, we don't have such rules-at least not to my knowledge. If Madame Roussef decides to have the good General as the next MOD, she can easily sign the order. I hope she does, because we both know that he is one hell of a smart person (among several other reasons).

As for Collin Powell, don't we all know he is very political? One day he was a Republican and another day he became a "Democrat".smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/grin.gif (exactly like Jobim)
Reply to Joao da Silva
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 01, 2010

Ricardo: Collin Powell was the only cabinet member of George Bush who had any common sense. He tried to stop the fools from attacking Iraq, and at the end he ended up making a fool of himself at that last minute meeting at the United Nations when he had to present the United States position for the world why the US had to attack Iraq - and the sad part is that even a 15-year old high-school student here in the US could have prepared a better presentation than the United States made at the UN.

I feel sorry for Colin Powell, since he was almost forced to make a fool of himself on that occasion on behalf of the United States.



cuzao
written by Ederson, December 01, 2010
You asked when, since WWII, have submarines been used in combat? Generally, such "incidents" are kept quiet. However, there are notable exceptions, such as during the Falkland Islands and, of course, the little-known Pakistani and Indian wars.

Does Brasil need submarines? Probably, but positively nothing designed or built by the French. When thinking submarines, go Yankee or Brit, but the Germans and Swedes offer superb alternatives.
I don't get it...
written by Gringo I, December 02, 2010
all this uproar over these documents. I've yet to see anything damaging whatsoever. Especially when taken in the context that these are interpersonal messages and meant to be confidential. I actually think these documents do a lot in regards to giving basis to what the U.S. does and why.
Ederson
written by João da Silva, December 02, 2010

Does Brasil need submarines? Probably, but positively nothing designed or built by the French.


Hats off to you for being consistent in your viewpoints.smilies/smiley.gif
...
written by cúzão, December 02, 2010
"all this uproar over these documents. I've yet to see anything damaging whatsoever. Especially when taken in the context that these are interpersonal messages and meant to be confidential. I actually think these documents do a lot in regards to giving basis to what the U.S. does and why. "

I agree in the Brazil case, but not for the Saudi's. Here's a country that has no official relations with Israel, yet supports the same war rhetoric and strategy, and all the while, in Gates words, to the "death of the last American." What pussies.

Hilary spying on the U.N. is precious too. But the main thing throughout the leaks imho is that now many denials are no longer possible, Pakistan helping the Taliban with US tax dollars for example.

Nothing new in the documents
written by Ederson, December 02, 2010
It's been discussed before on this very site that Israel is not the ultimate prize of Islamic militants; Saudi Arabia is. In addition, the royal family's loosening grasp on its empire is not as newsworthy, just yet, as might be the dream of Israel's destruction. Nothing associated with the release of the documents should surprise anyone. but what should surprise everyone is how complicated the international scene truly is.
Ederson
written by João da Silva, December 02, 2010

It's been discussed before on this very site that Israel is not the ultimate prize of Islamic militants; Saudi Arabia is.


Did anyone listen to our discussions?

BTW, Ricky must be happy that finally you came out of your hibernation to express your views! He was quite upset I was responsible for chasing you away.smilies/shocked.gif He didn't believe when I said "Não fui eu".smilies/sad.gif
...
written by cúzão, December 02, 2010
"Islamic militants" is a pretty broad term. I actually think, for some anyways, their goal is not only Saudi Arabia but also Morocco and Spain - see the moors history for the connection. Their strategy to achieve that of course is as big of a war as possible, which unfortunately the right wingers are only to happy too oblige.

As for Israel, for better or for worse its pretty much a "wag the dog" situation on US politics, ie, its political suicide to question the "green light" policy of letting them do whatever they want. A quick google search on Al-Qaeda statements concerning Israel and its support from the US leaves me with little doubt about their motives. Which imho is like most threats, exaggerated for political reasons - at least in terms of promoting occupation as the solution.
Reply to Joao da Silva
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 02, 2010
Ricardo: It is nice for Ederson to return to the discussions here on Brazzil magazine.

We have a more interesting discussion going on about the subject of WikiLeaks at the Charlie Rose Show, because we are discussing the final military showdown between North Korea and the United States.

This people in North Korea have been preparing themselves for 50 years for the final showdown against the United States - and I bet some old generals from North Korea can't wait for the big day to come as we approach it.

Here is what I just posted on that website:

What I was saying is that the nuclear weapon attack has to happen against a country that is holding a large foreign exchange reserve in US dollars such as Japan.

This strategy is not about killing people, it's about destroying the entire economic system of your enemy in one shot – in this case a total meltdown of the economic and financial system of the United States – and the greatest international financial crisis the world has ever seen.

I am aware that if such attack becomes a reality – we know the North Koreans have the nuclear capability and the missile delivery system to accomplish such a task before the rest of the world realizes what happened – and that it would be the end of the international monetary system that it has around for the last 60 years. And I have no idea what the world would look like after such a massive global financial and economic meltdown – all I know is that we are not going to have any winners, we are going to have only losers on this deal.

By the way, the United States did not want to kill massive amounts of people as it was the reality of dropping a nuclear warhead in Hiroshima.
They had no military installations on these cities, they had mostly civilians and innocent people living on these quiet places such as senior citizens, women, and children when the United States nuked them.
Americans did not hate the Japanese senior citizens, women, and children that were burn to a crisp when the US nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Again, it was not necessary to nuke a second city, all the US had to do it was to wait a few more days for the world and the Japanese to realize what had happened in Hiroshima.

But the United States nuked Nagasaki just a few days latter, and the reason was to test a different type of nuke to see which type of nuke it was more effective in mass destruction.

You can see the Mushroom cloud from the atomic explosion over Nagasaki at 11:02 A.M, August 9, 1945 at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagasaki

The result of the United States nuclear test in Nagasaki was: The death toll from the atomic bombing totaled 73,884, as well as another 74,909 injured, and another several hundred thousand diseased and dying due to fallout and other illness caused by radiation.

The United States of America dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima at 8:15 A.M. on August 6, 1945 killing an estimated 90,000 –166,000 killed in Hiroshima.

It was not necessary to kill several hundred thousand people in Nagasaki only 3 days latter, but the US did it anyway.

From a North Korean point of view, they can win the war against the United States with a preemptive massive surprise nuclear attack against Tokyo.

With a massive meltdown of the US dollar, and collapsing stock markets around the world, with a total meltdown of the financial and economic system around the world – I have no idea how such world would work even on a temporary basis until the international community comes up with a new international monetary and economic system.

After such attack comes to past, I don't think the United States would be in the position to retaliate against North Korea, since at that point China would also retaliate with nuclear weapons against the United States.

You can read the entire discussion at:

WikiLeaks – discussion at Charlie Rose Show
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11320

.
WikiChina...
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 03, 2010

Ricardo: You guys also would enjoy reading the latest WikiChina by Thomas Friedman which was published on The New York Times of today:

WikiChina
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12...edman.html

.
The American way of resolving a major conflict with Diplomacy...
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 03, 2010

Ricardo: I just posted the enclosed info at the Charlie Rose Show to continue our discussion regarding how the United States is helping to bring into a peaceful conclusion the current real possibility of a nuclear war in Asia.

The American way of resolving a major conflict with Diplomacy...it is also known as the "Brain Dead" strategy.

This article just published by Bloomberg News set the stage of things to come, and gives North Korea a great opportunity to light up the skies over Tokyo with 5,200 missiles as a preemptive first strike, including 5 or 6 missiles armed with nuclear warheads – that would give a nice Rambo touch for a big final showdown between the United States and North Korea – then after all this time and that big finale both countries will be able to put to rest the 1953 Korean War.


*****


“South Korea's New Defense Chief Threatens Air Strikes on North”
By Bomi Lim and Saeromi Shin - Dec 3, 2010
Bloomberg News

South Korea’s new defense minister vowed retaliation that would include airstrikes if North Korea makes another attack following last month’s deadly artillery bombardment.

“I will mobilize all combat capabilities available to severely punish the enemy,” Kim Kwan Jin, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said today at a confirmation hearing. “I will surely use planes. This is a matter of self-defense.”

...“The latest tough talk seemed to be mostly aimed at deterring North Korea from further provocations,” said Kim Yong Hyun, a professor of North Korean studies at Dongguk University in Seoul. “There is only so much South Korea can do in terms of tough actions when there’s little assurance of how far North Korea will go.”

...Shipping Warning

South Korea warned ships to avoid 29 areas around its coast starting Dec. 6 as more than 40,000 Japanese and U.S. troops began joint exercises today. One zone lies about 7 miles (11 kilometers) off Daecheong island, in waters claimed by the North that are about 100 miles (160 kilometers) from the South Korean mainland.

...North Korea has more than 5,200 multiple rocket launchers, 100 more than previously estimated, bolstering its capability to attack South Korea’s capital, Yonhap News reported today, citing a South Korean government official it didn’t identify. North Korea has also increased the number of tanks and boosted its capability to intercept planes, Yonhap said.

Fresh from maneuvers in the Yellow Sea with South Korea’s navy, the aircraft carrier USS George Washington will join a force of about 400 aircraft and 60 warships in the Japanese-U.S. exercises today. Drills will include responding to ballistic missile attacks on unspecified Pacific islands, the Joint Staff of the Japan Self-Defense Forces said in a statement.

South Korea’s drills starting Dec. 6 will include live firing from navy ships into the sea near Daecheong island, said the spokesman for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The area lies to the southwest of the island, in the opposite direction to the North Korean coastline, he said.

The army and air force will be involved in drills in some of the areas around South Korea where regular live-fire practice is planned, said the spokesman.

.
you are full of s**t, amoral...
written by asp, December 03, 2010
take your arm chair , f**king hindsight petty ass analasys of whether the usa needed to drop a second bomb or not and shove it up your uninformed bulls**t a*****e...

all the bitches that look back and say the usa didnt need to drop a second bomb are f**king full of s**t. the japanese military mind set had no room for surrender. it was not in their makeup. they had to be hit so hard they had no choice.

who the f**k are you to think you know whether the japanese would have surrendered or not. it is the hight of arrogonce on your part to stick your nose up the ass olf your warped version of world history

you suck, buddy,

and f**k the mother f**keers who say the japanese were trying to talk to russia to surrender before . that wasnt the main japanese power people. they just didnt surrender, it wasnt in their makeup.

i had an uncle waiting on the ships to invade japan in what would have no doubt been one of the most bloody episodes of the whole war, anialating millions of japanese and many american solders lives.

f**k you and all the ass holes who look back on a dirty war that killed 42 million and stick their noses up the ass of a warped bulls**t re write of history

just because some american general quipped something about what the bomb could be tested for had nothing to do with the desician making policy that led to the dropping of the two bombs..mother f**kers make stupid quips all the time after the fact

you punk ass holes have absolutly no idea what the japanese imperialist army would have done... absolutly none...you are hind sight ass hole guessing

f**k you and kiss my ass
Ricardo Amaral
written by João da Silva, December 03, 2010
From a North Korean point of view, they can win the war against the United States with a preemptive massive surprise nuclear attack against Tokyo.

With a massive meltdown of the US dollar, and collapsing stock markets around the world, with a total meltdown of the financial and economic system around the world – I have no idea how such world would work even on a temporary basis until the international community comes up with a new international monetary and economic system.

After such attack comes to past, I don't think the United States would be in the position to retaliate against North Korea, since at that point China would also retaliate with nuclear weapons against the United States.


Excuse me Ricardo, your theory seems a bit far fetched to me:

Questions:

1) The North Koreans may think that they could win a war against the U.S. by launching a nuclear tipped missiles against Tokyo. Are you assuming that Japan is defenseless or do you think that the Americans are going to sit and watch their arms crossed?

2) Why do you think that the Chinese are going to use the Nuclear weapons on America in case the latter decides to attack North Korea? What do the Chines have to gain by nuking a country that they have already almost conquered economically?

3) What do you think is going to be the reaction of the Russians and Indians who are not exactly allies of the Chinese?

As I said in one of my earlier posts, I would rather see Brasil remaining neutral in this brewing conflict. Especially when one considers that heavy investments the South Koreans have made here creating direct and indirect jobs in the Electronic and Automobile Industries.
Nuclear financial meltdown
written by Ederson, December 03, 2010
Ricardo. No military installations in the target cities? You might want to read the first-hand accounts of the American POWs who experienced the bombing of those two cities. Wasn't Hiroshima a shipping center and the site of military storage depots? Wasn't Nagasaki an industrial community? If the cities were of no practical value, then why were American and other allied soldiers being used as slave labor? The civilian population of both cities were not involved in construction of munitions and components for for more advanced industries in their very homes? The civilians of of both cities were not housing Japanese soldiers and providing recruits for Japan's military? If you are correct, your information goes against the physical information provided by witnesses and the Japanese civilians themselves.

Ricardo, remember. In a world war with total mobilization and nationalization, there is no such thing as a civilian, at least the Japanese didn't think so during their rein of terror across a third of the world. I think it odd that any country who brought such grief and slaughter to so many could possibly claim they were innocent civilians.

Remember, you heard the truth about Saudi Arabia/Iran, and the horrible potential for the world concerning the Arab and Indian conflict first on this site, and I believe history is proving the information 100 percent correct.

Now, here is another revelation concerning North Korea and the Americans, if you pay attention closely. It is not about North Korea and the Americans; it is about Japan, America, and India.
North Korea is a wholly owned subsidiary of communist China and an incredibly valuable asset! North Korea is the thorn in Japan's side that China so desperately needs and is a ready reserve of highly committed soldiers if either Russia or Japan tries anything.
Let me remind you that Japan is the natural enemy of China and, perfectly, the sworn enemy of North Korea. What Japan is receiving now from China is just payback and to be expected. The drain on Japan's resources serves many purposes. Ricardo, believe me, the size of North Korea's army is forefront in any discussion by anyone concerning an attack on the Chinese. China laughingly knows that.
China is benefiting hugely by propping up North Korea. Indeed, it is such a wonderful investment and offering excellent returns to the Chinese.

Ricardo, I don't believe for a moment that the Chinese want North Korea to involve it self in a war. North Korea serves a wonderful purpose as a regional bully to distract the world from the truth behind the Chinese. And if the Chinese appear to be able to subdue the savage Korean monster, they will appear as heroes, too.
The Chinese win both ways, and the rest of the world remains a bunch of dopes. And if China looses North Korea in a firestorm from South Korea, Japan, and the Yanks, they will remain innocent and laugh their fool heads off knowing the North Koreans were as stupid as the Yanks and Brasilians.

The same story with China's support of the Islamic dream of destroying India. The Chinese are so smart and the rest of the world is so stupid to not believe the Chinese are not at the root of so much of the world's mayhem at the moment. The discussion requires more time than what I have at the moment, but it has been expressed on this site before, several times, that China is a great deal smarter than what many perceive, and that the Yanks and Brasil are nothing but a bunch of dupes.

God! Imagine tricking a country into providing you raw resources at a cheap price and then allowing you to destroy their industrial base by encouraging you to flood their markets with the cheap goods you provides the raw resources for. How in the world can the Chinese loose? It's perfect.

Forget Israel. The future struggle is against India and the Arabs and their Chinese allies. You couldn't make this stuff up. You read it first on this site. Keep an eye on China and India. It won't happen right away, but the firestorm , I feel is centered there. All the rest of the stuff, the Saudi and Iranian nukes, etc., are all sideshows. Who gives a crap about Israel. Smiles. This was far too long, but the subject is so complex. As always, this redneck happily yields to greater opinions and experiences.
Chase me away?
written by Ederson, December 03, 2010
Chase me away? Joao, you could never chase me away from this site. However, your advocacy of the right for anyone to dab peanut butter on their crumpet did catch me a little off my guard.
Though we've never met, I've always pictured you as a member of the old school; no doubt you possess an appropriately large recliner, an upholstered wooden door to your library, and a well-used pipe with which you savor the world's finest tobaccos, and a loyal Rhodesian Ridgeback at your feet.

So you can, of course, understand my confusion.

It's not that I'm against peanut butter on crumpets, for I imagine there are, indeed, survival situations that require thinking out of the box. For instance, if I was dying of hunger, I, too, would certainly consider insulting my crumpet with some "Skippy" as ASP termed it, but only after apologizing to the Queen.

It boils down to the simple fact that crumpets and peanut butter are a little bit like cannibalism; it's not something you do in polite company. However, I feel none of the above applies to anyone born of American roots. For them, I suggest freedom rules! For the free at heart, I say wrap yourself in the Stars and Stripes and smother that crumpet with "Skippy!" smilies/wink.gif
Reply to Ederson
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 04, 2010

Excuse me Ricardo, your theory seems a bit far fetched to me:

Questions:

Ederson: 1) The North Koreans may think that they could win a war against the U.S. by launching a nuclear tipped missiles against Tokyo. Are you assuming that Japan is defenseless or do you think that the Americans are going to sit and watch their arms crossed?


*****


Ricardo: First, welcome back to our discussions here on Brazzil.

I am talking about a massive first strike, a surprise preemptive strike with hundreds of missiles being shot at Tokyo at the same time, and 5 or 6 of them carrying nuclear warheads.

I would bet that North Korea could hit its target with the 5 or 6 nuclear warheads.

The reaction of the United States is immaterial after the North Koreans are able to land 5 or 6 nuclear warheads in Tokyo.

It does not make any difference the reaction of the United States after North Korea has accomplished its goal.

Ederson, the North Korean Army has been waiting for this opportunity for over 55 years, and they finally can go all the way and show to the world how a very poor country – just like in David and Goliath – North Korea goes for the kill, and hit the United States on its Achilles heel.


*****


Ederson: 2) Why do you think that the Chinese are going to use the Nuclear weapons on America in case the latter decides to attack North Korea? What do the Chinese have to gain by nuking a country that they have already almost conquered economically?


*****


Ricardo: It will not be necessary for China to start a nuclear confrontation with the United States.

After Tokyo is hit by 5 or 6 nuclear warheads from North Korea the United States would not retaliate the nuclear attack against North Korea.

The United States might use regular bombs like in Iraq and Afghanistan to show that the US did something against North Korea, but the US would not use nuclear weapons to retaliate against North Korea.

If the United States decides to retaliate against North Korea with nuclear weapons then that option would be the same as attacking China with nuclear weapons, because North Korea is right next door to China, and a US nuclear weapons attack against North Korea would have terrible collateral damage inside China.

If the United States retaliate against North Korea with nuclear weapons then China has no other option than attack the United States with nuclear weapons.

Actually, there's a good chance that North Korea might get away with a nuclear weapons attach against Japan without a nuclear weapons retaliation against North Korea.

If I was making the decision in North Korea, I would go for the first strike surprise preemptive nuclear attack against Tokyo.


*****


Ederson: 3) What do you think is going to be the reaction of the Russians and Indians who are not exactly allies of the Chinese?


*****


Ricardo: No reaction from Russia or India, since neither country would use their nuclear weapons to retaliate against North Korea on behalf of Japan.


*****


Ederson: As I said in one of my earlier posts, I would rather see Brasil remaining neutral in this brewing conflict. Especially when one considers that heavy investments the South Koreans have made here creating direct and indirect jobs in the Electronic and Automobile Industries.


*****


Ricardo: Brazil has no dog in that fight.

That is just a final score that has to be settled between the United States and North Korea of a fight that has been going on since 1953.

But at the end of the day, I would like to see North and South Korea merged into one country like Germany.

.
this is brought to you by amorals f**ked world veiw of polotics....
written by asp, December 04, 2010
its absolutly ridiculas

it aint going to f**king happen...

you are pulling an idea out of your a*****e that just isnt going to happen. if these world veiw scenarios of yours are anything on the same leval as your financial predictions, then your financial predictions lose a lot of credibility

if china is so god almighty right now WHY CANT THEY GET BACK TAIWAN ?

north korrea wont send nukes to japan because they would be signing their own death warrant

then again, anyone who starts tossing around bulls**t retakes on histroy , like why there was a second nuclear bomb drop on japan ,doesnt have any credit, and there are a lot of stupid mother f**kers like that around

ederson, just get some nutrella then , for your crumpets
Amaral
written by Mo, December 04, 2010
is an idiot. He's proven that time after time with his ill-thought predictions that are bases in brazilian nationalism and anti-americanism. As he types from his keyboard in NYC.
asp and peanut butter crumpets
written by Ederson, December 04, 2010
asp, I have eaten peanuts. Indeed, back home, it was common to eat them in the shell. However, since I believe in man's eventual ascendancy, I do not torture my crumpet with the paste of such a primitive food. But at the same time, let me assure you that I am not against anyone else committing such a travesty, nor am I saying I would not do so if forced by an emergency. smilies/wink.gif
Ricardo's questions
written by Ederson, December 04, 2010
Ricardo. In your typical fashion, you have been reaching for the bigger picture. Congratulations, for few care to expend the effort.

First, let me begin by pointing out that the Internet is full of information and videos concerning nuclear warfare and its effects. Secondly, I claim mo great knowledge concerning the science of killing people by using the bomb, but I have questioned many times the "what and why" of such a disaster.

Anyone interested in the effects of nuclear war first learns that not all bombs are the same. While any war using an atomic weapon may correctly be termed a nuclear war, not all bombs are the same, and even the largest are not necessarily the end of the world. That is what I feel makes the use of the bomb, someday, a certainty. Indeed, as horrible as it may seem, the topography of some potential battlefields almost calls out for their use, such as the India/Pakistan border and huge sections of the Middle east, especially if you believe God wants you to use the bomb and many virgins are waiting for you in heaven.

Ricardo, your first question concerning Japan's defenses. Many people believe that Japan is already a nuclear country. In any event, it is obvious that Japan has both the material to build effective nuclear weapons and the ability. Some estimates state that Japan could go nuclear in as little as a few weeks if its leaders decide to. But what is more interesting, is the type of weapons that Japan is currently developing or interested in purchasing, such as Stealth fighters and the like. Such equipment is not so important for defense as it is for an offense. I also believe that the Yank's protective power would be appreciated by Japan but not necessary. In a nutshell, peanut for asp, Japan, if it gets angry, can take care of itself, especially against North Korea. Don't let North Korea's massive military parades and colourful martial demonstrations fool you. Japan possess a reputation for being able to dish it out.
Would the Yanks help Japan? If they needed it, but in the end, the Yanks may have to restrain Japan.
Your scenario concerning 5 or 6 North Korean nukes against Japan is not a worthy first strike on Japan. It will kill untold thousands but in the end, only guarantee the North's destruction by Japan. The Japanese are one of the least likely nations to sit back and take a nuclear strike calmly.

Ricardo. China does not want such a war to happen. The Chinese have invested in North Korea so that it may serve asa bully and a counter to Japan and to a lesser extent Russia and India. If China looses North Korea, China will loose a huge element of its military effectiveness. Remember, North Korea is a proxy element of the Chinese military; don't let anyone fool you otherwise.

A attack on Japan would probably inspire South Korea to react, and who knows in what manner. The very idea that South Korea doesn't have the bomb already is unbelievable. It is the only way to halt a massive land invasion of North Korea.
The big concern is that the North Korean army trains for the nuclear battlefield, and for the Souh Koreans to stop them, South Korea might be forced to nuke portions of its own soil.

If such a disaster happened, the Russians and Indians would stay out of the way and let the Yanks and Brits handle it and hope that it went the American's way. Such a disaster. Almost unthinkable.
After such a war, the Indians would be in better condition to wage war on Islam, no doubt with Russia's cooperation.

China may not help North Korea in a nuclear battle involving the Yanks. Remember, the Koreans are a proxy of the Chinese and expendable to a point. The Chinese will allow the North Koreans to be taught a lesson, but will not allow them to be invaded, ever.

But the most important consideration of such an exchange, however limited, let's say an isolated strike on the huge Indian/Pakistan border, is the effect on the world economy and the immediate realigning of nations. I can only imagine the massive confusion that will follow in the world's markets. That's where the real disaster will occur. Everyone is thinking of building a bunker but not of protecting their pocket books or economy, and if you are one of those nations that live and breathe cooperation for one of the combatants, such as Brasil's growing dependency on China, well, be prepared.

Just my opinions. If you don't believe me, it's all on the Internet and at the library.smilies/cheesy.gif

I'm curious. Are there any economists who have written at length or discussed the effects of a post-nuclear conflict? That would be fascinating reading, even if it's only a limited exchange, I should think great walls will come tumbling down.
Ederson
written by João da Silva, December 04, 2010

Chase me away?


Thanks Eddie for your refusal to part our company and walk over to the "other side". I wish I enjoyed all the good things in life you described, including and especially the Rhodesian Ridgeback. What lovely creatures they are! I wish the "new" administration that takes charge in Brasília on Jan 1st would permit peasants like me to import these loyal ones into our Republic, with 0% import duty.smilies/wink.gif

Changing the topic: IMHO, ASP is totally lost. Probably ran out of his stock of peanut butter. Hopefully, his contacts in Beijing will be able to mail him some, labeled "Product of PRC".

But...But...But... further "changing the topic":

Ricardo's questions


Quite an essay, Ederson. It answers my original questions put forth to our buddy Ricardo. smilies/smiley.gif

BTW, I always suspected that our modern day Japanese brethren are not all that "defenseless".smilies/smiley.gif
Ridgebacks
written by Ederson, December 04, 2010
Joao, The Rhodeasian Ridgeback is a class act and worthy of both the veldt and family. For such a huge animal, they require little space; I know from experience. smilies/wink.gif Also very sensitive and intelligent. Evil intruders have met their match when they awaken a Ridgeback in the middle of the night. Puppies can be very expensive. Read all the books you can find and remember, quality costs.
Anti-China bloc
written by Ederson, December 04, 2010
Joao, I think it was you who wrote about the presence of the PROCEEDINS magazine. Fantastic journal. Where else can you read the military opinions of the naval leaders of both friends and enemies. Japan is not alone in its desire to stand up to China. Indonesia, the Philippines, Singapore, Vietnam, and others are now wishing Brasil's new ally would just go away.
Japan is currently soul-searching for a new fighter plane for their air force. It has become an imperative. Brasil should pay attention to Japan's decision. The Japanese are very mission oriented and can do without the fancy glitter and nonsense. I think that means the French don't have a chance of winning the Japanese competition. smilies/wink.gif
Reply to Ederson - Part 1 of 2
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 05, 2010



Ricardo: On Sunday, North Korea gave a warning to the United States and South Korea that the political situation in that area of the world is reaching an uncontrollable level.


05/12/2010 - 02h35
“Pyongyang adverte Seul e Washington contra novas manobras militares”
DA EFE, EM SEUL
Folha de Sao Paulo

A Coreia do Norte advertiu neste domingo Seul e Washington que haverá consequências se foram realizadas novas manobras conjuntas no Mar Amarelo (Mar Ocidental) e assinalou que a situação política na região está alcançando "um nível incontrolável".

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/m...ares.shtml


*****


Ederson: First, let me begin by pointing out that the Internet is full of information and videos concerning nuclear warfare and its effects. Secondly, I claim mo great knowledge concerning the science of killing people by using the bomb, but I have questioned many times the "what and why" of such a disaster.


*****


Ricardo: When a country decides to use a nuclear warhead the objective is not to kill people – the goal can be something else.

If North Korea attacks Tokyo with multiple nuclear warheads – the main objective is to cause a total collapse of the global international monetary system based on the US dollar.

Forget about nuclear retaliation against North Korea – the people from around the world would cause a major run into the banking system creating a massive implosion of the entire system.

We would have Panic everywhere with massive banking failures, collapsing stock markets, the entire financial system would turn into chaos, with run on supermarkets to get the food that still is available – paper money would become worthless almost immediately after the nuclear weapons attack, and so on.....

At that point who cares if the United States or anyone else retaliates against North Korea, since most of the news would be about the collapsing and imploding economic and financial system.

From the point view of North Korea they would have achieved their goal – the total collapse of the US economy. And the North Koreans have been preparing themselves for the big day for the last 50 years, and finally the opportunity for such a grand finale has arrived – the final showdown with the United States.

If I was in charge of North Korea I would not miss the opportunity available this coming week – as the United States play war games with Japan, North Korea would launch a massive attack against Tokyo and catch them by surprise. They would not expect North Korea to launch such an attack when they are playing games in a display of military power.


*****


Ederson: Ricardo, your first question concerning Japan's defenses. Many people believe that Japan is already a nuclear country. In any event, it is obvious that Japan has both the material to build effective nuclear weapons and the ability. Some estimates state that Japan could go nuclear in as little as a few weeks if its leaders decide to. But what is more interesting, is the type of weapons that Japan is currently developing or interested in purchasing, such as Stealth fighters and the like. Such equipment is not so important for defense as it is for an offense.


*****


Ricardo: I am sure Japan has nuclear weapons capabilities, and I am also sure that Germany has it.

After a North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo, we would have a collapsing economic and financial system around the world, and that would take all the attention from people everywhere when the economic system is collapsing around you.

At that point there is so much confusion everywhere that the last thing you want is for a nuclear war to get out of control.

.
Reply to Ederson - Part 2 of 2
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 05, 2010

Ederson: Would the Yanks help Japan? If they needed it, but in the end, the Yanks may have to restrain Japan.

Your scenario concerning 5 or 6 North Korean nukes against Japan is not a worthy first strike on Japan. It will kill untold thousands but in the end, only guarantee the North's destruction by Japan. The Japanese are one of the least likely nations to sit back and take a nuclear strike calmly.


*****


Ricardo: What follows the North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo is irrelevant, since North Korea already has achieved its goal – the economic and financial destruction of the United States.


*****


Ederson: Ricardo. China does not want such a war to happen. The Chinese have invested in North Korea so that it may serve as a bully and a counter to Japan and to a lesser extent Russia and India.


*****


Ricardo: From the North Korean point of view this is an excellent opportunity for David to destroy Goliath – and their mindset is geared for such a occasion and spectacular event.

The leaders of North Korea don't want to end up like Saddam Hussein with a rope around their neck.

They are cornered, being provoked and intimidated, they are going to lose the war anyway – then why not go with a big blast?

That's the way to go....


*****


Ederson: A attack on Japan would probably inspire South Korea to react, and who knows in what manner.


*****


Ricardo: As soon as the North Korean attack is underway they send a message to South Korea that they are not going to attack South Korea. And that their goal has been achieved by this massive attack against Tokyo.


*****


Ederson: China may not help North Korea in a nuclear battle involving the Yanks. Remember, the Koreans are a proxy of the Chinese and expendable to a point. The Chinese will allow the North Koreans to be taught a lesson, but will not allow them to be invaded, ever.


*****


Ricardo: At that point it does not matter what China thinks the North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo has trigger a massive chain reaction with bank runs and collapse, and stock market meltdowns like never seen before.

The United States financial and economic system is in intensive care right now and this time around the Fed and the US Treasury will be completely powerless to be able to save the system from total collapse.


*****


Ederson: I'm curious. Are there any economists who have written at length or discussed the effects of a post-nuclear conflict? That would be fascinating reading, even if it's only a limited exchange, I should think great walls will come tumbling down.


*****


Ricardo: I am not aware of anybody writing about that subject.

What I wrote above is my guess as I think about the subject. But I have no idea how the world economy would work if we have a sudden collapse of the US dollar as I described above.

I remember reading articles about the Great Hanshin earthquake, or Kobe earthquake, was an earthquake that occurred on Tuesday, January 17, 1995 – the articles said that if such earthquake had occurred in Tokyo that would have triggered the collapse of the US dollar.

These articles were long and described in detail how the earthquake would generate so much damage to the city of Tokyo in turn Japan would need to use its US dollar reserves to reconstruct their country.

.
Well thank Christ...
written by Adolf, December 05, 2010
If I was in charge of North Korea I would not miss the opportunity available this coming week – as the United States play war games with Japan, North Korea would launch a massive attack against Tokyo and catch them by surprise.


that instead of being the leader of North Korea you're just a nut behind a keyboard somewhere in NYC.
Someone...
written by Dr. No, December 05, 2010
Ricardo: As soon as the North Korean attack is underway they send a message to South Korea that they are not going to attack South Korea. And that their goal has been achieved by this massive attack against Tokyo.


please, get this guy to the nearest mental health facility.
Ricardo, I believe you are 100 percent correct.
written by Ederson, December 05, 2010
I don't believe there's any doubt that Japan, or even South Korea could survive a first strike from North Korea. The Yanks have written at length of the destructive power of the bomb of many different kilotons and megatons. They have it down to a science. Indeed, they triggered over 800 individual weapons within their own country.

For a fascinating look at the bomb, look at the satellite photos of Mercury, Nevada, the area just north of the community was the test site. The number of huge craters dotting the desert is incredible. In addition, the Yanks freely share the information and videos. It is clear that the bomb, however horrible, may be a city killer, but it is not, as North Korea would probably use it, a nation killer.

But you have hit the nail on the head. What it would do to the economy of many nations, if not the world, would be staggering. Just as the incident of 9/11 changed the Yanks and the world, so would such an explosion. Even if, I dare say, it was a warning shot just off the the city limits in perhaps the open water. The death of a few thousand innocent people would probably be perceived as insignificant compared to the chaos that would result.

For that reason alone, even doubters should fear and be aware of the bomb, but I fear it is too late. Such a disaster, while probably not happening tomorrow, is inevitable.

So many nations clamoring for the bomb today, even small bombs similar to the type the Yanks devised for Germany that would not be so destructive and useful tactically against smaller targets.

I agree with you, Ricardo, the threat, overall, may be one of economics, and it may be a threat in which everyone will share.

Thank God Brasil's leaders have the sense to remain neutral, avoid strategic alliances, and to disassociate Brasil with insane nations who have expressed the desire to use a bomb against their neighbors.smilies/wink.gif

In the future, I will be searching for information concerning the economic effects of even an isolated, or perhaps accidental nuclear weapons explosion.

What is interesting, Ricardo, is that there is also a huge majority who are willing to shoot the messenger who dares risk explaining to the public the dangers of such stupidity to the economics of the world.

In addition, I can't recall an economist anywhere that has suggested, even remotely, as to how a country's leadership could protect national assets from such a disaster. It seems that everyone is in this potential disaster, however, remote, together. Besides, I'm just too backward to understand the complex structure of international relations anyway. In the meantime, life goes on. I have to make money and pay bills and ward off this giant dog that wants to sit on my lap, as well as the temptation to put peanut butter on my crumpet.smilies/cheesy.gif
Your thinking is never boring Ricardo. I still appreciate all the effort you took to educate my narrow mind as to currency and how it is manipulated. Thanks.
try nutrela, ederson...
written by asp, December 05, 2010
amoral, how could i ever have offended you, i totaly missunderstood what you are about...

that is the greatest fiction scenario i could ever have thought of

you have a wonderful future as a fiction writer

your analysis of the second nuclear bomb on japan was still pulled right out of your a*****e

since we are into fiction , how about this, north korrea hits japan with the nukes, the usa nukes north korrea and then china comes in to defend north korrea and gets nuked into oblivian and the debt and loans are automaticly erased....economic crisis solved..

i mean what the f**k, ederson, dont i get credit for such creative fiction writing ?
...
written by Ederson, December 05, 2010
smilies/wink.gifasp, you won me over. I'll try it on some pancakes first. If I survive or don't feel guilty, then, maybe someday I'll go all the way.smilies/cheesy.gif

Reply to Ederson
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 05, 2010

Ricardo: Ederson, I am glad that you got the main point of the discussion. The comments of all these other guys shows that they did not grasped the core and essence of this conversation.

In my opinion, the United States is playing a reckless game by playing military games and provoking North Korea at a critical time – it is like the US wants North Korea to over-react and go for the final showdown with the United States – that reflect the American “Rambo mindset”.

If the United States were secure about the image of military superpower that it tries so hard to project around the world, then this childish war games that they are going to play with Japan to provoke North Korea would not be necessary.

But the reality is very different, and we can see how effective US military power is in Afghanistan – basically is nothing to write home about it.

If a country can't show in the battlefield how powerful and effective its Army is, then they have to go for the make believe war games to show on the news around the world how powerful their military is Hollywood style – just a facade, and an artificial or deceptive front.....

These war games that the United States is going to play with Japan is a good definition for the word: stupid.

Today we should not be surprised by this type of garbage and reckless type of leadership coming out of Washington, since there's nothing good coming out of Washington for a long time. The place has become a rotten place with very few people who are able to actually use their brain, one of the few exceptions is Senator Bernie Sanders.

The United States has lost all its credibility around the world regarding economic and financial matters and now the United States is showing that it can also be reckless about its phoney display of military power.

You don't throw fuel into the fire on an explosive situation such as is the case with the North Korean crisis that is underway.

.
Reply to Ederson
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 05, 2010

Ederson: But you have hit the nail on the head. What it would do to the economy of many nations, if not the world, would be staggering. Just as the incident of 9/11 changed the Yanks and the world, so would such an explosion.


*****


Ricardo: You have the perfect example, look at the damage that 9/11 caused not only to the US economy, but the domino effect that it had around the world.

Basically, 19 guys armed with box cutters almost brought down the entire global economy. And their destruction were minor including a few buildings in Manhattan, and a very small number of human casualties.

Can you imagine the economic and financial devastation to the global economy if 5 or 6 North Korean nuclear warheads land in the center of Tokyo?

The North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo as I described above would have 1,000 times the economic and financial destructive power that 9/11 had on the economic and financial system around the world.

And this time around we already have an economic system that is very vulnerable and in the brink of collapsing by itself by implosion in the United States, and in Europe – the nuclear destruction of Tokyo would trigger an immediate economic and financial destruction of what is left of the economic and financial system that makes the world work.

As soon as the nuclear warheads destroys Tokyo – At that exact minute I have no idea how the economic and financial system of the countries from around the world works. After the total economic and financial meltdown I don't know how we go from there...

The very fragile European economic and financial system would collapse, and the US economic and financial system that still is in critical condition would not survive this massive economic and financial implosion.

.
Ederson
written by João da Silva, December 05, 2010

Anti-China bloc
written by Ederson, December 05, 2010
Joao, I think it was you who wrote about the presence of the PROCEEDINS magazine.


No Ederson, it was not me who mentioned "PROCEEDINGS" magazine. I think it was our long vanished friend Capt.Brodie. Yes, it is one publication that has lots of credibility on military matters. Their website is:

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings

Japan is not alone in its desire to stand up to China. Indonesia, the Philippines, Singapore, Vietnam, and others are now wishing Brasil's new ally would just go away.


IMHO, Japan has the military might to stand up against China and it erstwhile "enemies" that you listed are cheering that it would. As for we are concerned: I don't know if you read in the newspapers that our outgoing External Affairs Minister Dr.Celso Amorim has stated that the "new" administration has to rethink its policy with respect to PRC. I think he was talking about preventing an "economic conquest" and NOT about the Chinese Armada sailing all the way around the Megallan Strait to invade our Pre-salt oil fields.

I am still skeptical about the possibility of the Chinese goading the North Koreans into dropping 5 or 6 nukes right in the middle of downtown Tokyo hoping to cause the world economy to collapse. I don't think the Chinese leadership consists of fools. When they are accomplishing many conquests through "peaceful means" (smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gif) in Africa and South America, it goes beyond my peasant´s logic to picture a scenario in which Messers.Wen Jiabao & Hu Jintao urging their loyal alley Kim II-sung to start a proxy war against the U.S.
smilies/shocked.gif



how about .....
written by asp, December 05, 2010
if a fundamentalist islamic brought a nuke into manhattan and set it off in times square , the new york post headline would be :

" nuke set off in times square by islamic terrorists, hundreds of americans are dead ..."

since we have doomsday scenarios, how about this one :
a bolivian group who hate brazil ( you know, the ones that call brazilians "gringo") get a hold of 6 nukes, from north korrea by way of farc ,and sneak it over at paraguay, venezuela , and bolivian borders, and hit, sao paulo, rio, brazilia, salvador, porto allegre and manaus...the brazil economy bursts, it hits the world the whole world economy goes down...the world as we know it never will be the same

more doomsday...how about just a huge california earth quake rips off the whole california , oregon territory and into the sea...the american economy goes down that minute and the resulting tidle wave takes out china...the world economy is destroyed...

what if there was earth crust displacement next year ? the whole earth crust shifts, the poles shift (this has happened twice in world history)

all life would be hurtled and crashed into each other with bones crunching into powder and dust as they noticed actualy happened on bear island off siberia where , the reefs and sands are made up of animal bones and mammothe tusks...

the whole earth economy would be destroyed....where do we go from here?

god , im getting you now , amoral...im getting you
Reply to Joao da Silva
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 05, 2010

This final showdown is not about China.

It is the final showdown between the United States and North Korea.

The North Koreans have been waiting and have been preparing themselves mentally for this day for over 50 years.

In a nutshell: It's David destroying Goliath.

.

North Korea
written by Ederson, December 05, 2010
Ricardo, you will have to help me understand North Korea and to a degree China.

I thought it was the Yanks under your President Clinton who supported giving the latest nuclear technology to the North Koreans by transferring a complete nuclear power station to them through South Korea and teaching them how to use it.

And was it not your President Clinton who, when the Chinese complained about the accuracy of their space and research rockets, immediately transferred American technology to them and then stood in absolute shock when the Chinese a short time later announced that their ballistic missiles were now far more accurate? As an American, would you like to guess from who the North Koreans got the missile guidance technology?

It's not just the war games, Ricardo; it's the simple fact that your country gives others the power to attack it.

I'm not picking on the Yanks, but Yankee logic does elude me at times. Even back in the 90's when North Korea was on the verge of imploding due to massive starvation, America, Clinton again, cane through with aid, including massive amounts of food to prop the dictatorship up and keep that particular hell alive. So many questions for the Yanks, such as how North Korean special forces were able to purchase an entire air force worth of American helicopters in the eighties.

But I don't blame the Yanks. I just think that at times they have the best of intentions but sometimes try too hard.

However, I am in total agreement with you, Ricardo. If North Korea wants to shae and rattle the world, they could certainly do it while the tensions are so high if they wanted too, and I believe it would have dire consequences for the market, especially if you are invested in in Asia, and who isn't.

Thank God Brasil will never have the bomb! With Brasil's less than cohesive society, Brasil might go down in history as the first country to nuke itself. Just joking.smilies/wink.gif
Ricardo Amaral
written by João da Silva, December 05, 2010

It is the final showdown between the United States and North Korea.

The North Koreans have been waiting and have been preparing themselves mentally for this day for over 50 years.


Excuse me Ricardo. I ´ll have to repeat the comment of Ederson who said to convince myself that Armageddon is underway:

"Ricardo, you will have to help me understand North Korea and to a degree China. "

You see,my interaction with the North Koreans is Nil and with the Chinese is almost nil

From what I read little of North Korea and their fearless leaders, I cant help but comparing them with the Castro dynasty in Cuba. The Castros are also the sworn enemies of the good old U.S. of A and have been waiting for 50 years to destroy it. In fact they have had more opportunities than Kim II-Sungs & CO to nuke the U.S. to smithereens ever since 1959. In spite of it, Castro hasn't done it yet. So I am unable to understand why Kim II-Sung would do it.

Ricardo, you live too close to NYC.
written by Ederson, December 05, 2010
Ricardo, again, I'm no expert on North Korea, but they have been shelling South Korea, shooting down civilian airplanes, torpedoing other countries ships, and generally acting like idiots for the longest time. The latest round of violence is nothing new. China even has a row with the Americans every 20 years, and then everyone gets back to business.
I don't have any idea what North Korea is up to at the moment; too many variable for me to even imagine, but I can only believe that it is still business as usual.

I understand your concerns, however. It sounds as if you live too close to target USA. You need to move back home and get away from that noisy place.
I agree 100 percent with Joao: China may be rotten to the core, but they are still Republicans and therefore pro-life. They will tighten the rope on North Korea if push comes to shove; they have too munch capital invested in their proxy army to see it burned to a crisp by South Korea, Japan, and the Yanks.

Besides, if something does happen and you are down here, we'll both be that much closer to Joao's well-stocked private bunker! smilies/cheesy.gif Besides, aps's series of adventure novels will soon becoming into print and we both need an entertaining read.smilies/cheesy.gif

Still would love to read an essay on how the economic structure of the world would be changed by a nuke blast no matter how small. Always take care, Ricardo.
asp
written by João da Silva, December 05, 2010

a bolivian group who hate brazil ( you know, the ones that call brazilians "gringo") get a hold of 6 nukes, from north korrea by way of farc ,and sneak it over at paraguay, venezuela , and bolivian borders, and hit, sao paulo, rio, brazilia, salvador, porto allegre and manaus..


I am glad you avoided including your "home town" as well as mine in the list.smilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/grin.gif

But..but...but..., what do you have against Manaus ?
Ederson
written by João da Silva, December 05, 2010

I agree 100 percent with Joao: China may be rotten to the core, but they are still Republicans and therefore pro-life.


Objections, objections,objections, Ederson. You are misquoting me. While I agree that I said China is rotten to the core, I don't recall having discussed their party "affiliations" nor are they pro or anti-life. However, I have read that their state just permit one child/couple (probably American propaganda sponsored and financed by the Vatican).smilies/wink.gif
asp again
written by Ederson, December 05, 2010
asp has it right in my view. It doesn't matter if it's California sliding into the ocean or a shifting of the poles, there's going to be an upheaval in the markets and other economic sectors. The unique thing about a nuclear blast, however distant on the Pakistani/India border, is that it still invites the participation of the world. Therefore, the economic impact would be different and uniquely interesting, and no doubt endlessly depressing.

I'm surprised that for all the talk about such a disaster and the world's shock that would follow, no one has investigated the economic recovery that would certainly be needed soon after.

And I apologize to Joao for misquoting his statement concerning the Chinese. However, and, Ricardo, listen closely, he has not denied the existance of his well-stocked bunker.smilies/wink.gif
Reply to Ederson
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 05, 2010

Ricardo: Ederson, this afternoon I mentioned our discussion here on Brazzil magazine about North Korea to a friend of mine, and his reaction was similar to the reaction of you guys.

It took a while for him to realize what I was talking about. He also reacted by saying then the US, Japan, and so and so would retaliate and North Korea would pay the price of their action.

He gave me the China explanation how China would not allow such a thing to happen and so on...

I told him after North Korea attacks Tokyo with 5 or 6 nuclear weapons everything becomes immaterial at that second, and it does not make a bit of difference what is the reaction of the United States, Japan, China, Russia, and any other country.

Why is so hard for people to understand that we would have an immediate global run on the banks, a complete meltdown of stock markets, the entire banking system becomes insolvent at the same time, we would have a global economic collapse 1,000 worse than it happened after 9/11.

The world would be collapsing all around us with people running to supermarkets and trying to get any food that they could get their hand on, because I have no idea when new supplies of food would become available after the entire financial system crashes.

With the total breakdown and meltdown of the global financial and economic system there is no banking system, just a total breakdown of life as we are used to – we would have just anarchy and chaos left behind.

It is immaterial and it does not make any difference to anybody if any country decided to retaliate the North Korean nuclear attack against Tokyo.

Our lives would be completely shattered in the United States, in Europe, in Brazil, in China, in Russia, and so on...And life would be normal only for people in places such as in Africa, or South America where they grow their own food and they are completely independent of the outside world.

The other point that escapes most people's understanding is the fact that we need a country such as Japan with foreign exchange reserves of over $ 1 trillion dollars as part of this equation to work.

I am not sure if North Korea decided to attack South Korea with nuclear weapons we would have the same outcome of a total meltdown of the US dollar, and the end of the current international monetary system.

If India and Pakistan had an exchange of nuclear bombs between their countries that would not cause the meltdown of the international monetary system – in that case the nuclear attack would affect the back office of American companies that do their back office activities in India.

For the scenery that I described of a total international monetary system collapse and meltdown there are very few places around the world that could trigger such a catastrophe including Japan and China.

Even then the nuclear attack has to be on a specific target to cause massive financial losses – in this case Tokyo.

A nuclear attack to Tokyo would cause a massive loss to the global banking, insurance, and stock market systems – and the derivatives market would put the current global financial system out of its misery.

.
A oerceived threat is also deadly
written by Ederson, December 05, 2010
Ricardo. Help me, but isn't a perceived threat almost as bad as the real thing?

Look at Japan's reaction whenever North Korea shoots a series of tests in their direction. Japan is growing increasingly edgy as North Korea develops its delivery capability. At what point do Japan's leaders finally decide to take action, or will they calmly wait to see which series of tests is actually a nuke headed their way?

As usual, this scenario has been discussed many times on the Internet. In fact, the Kongo class Japanese destroyer may well have been developed as an answer to North Korea's continued development of the ballistic missile. The Aegis class destroyer has proven in tests that it can defeat a ballistic missile. However, the North Koreans are very savvy users of the modern submarine. North Korea sold a submarine to Iran, which reportedly made the entire trip to Iran undetected by the Yankee navy who was desperately trying to intercept it and failed.
So there in lies the seriousness of the threat to Japan; how can you stop the North Koreans if their attack is with determination.

The answer is that you can't. To stop them, Japan will have to kill them first.

It's a very interesting world and a very well discussed subject.

As a young pilot visiting America's Midwest, I often ran across missile sites. They were very interesting and I asked lots of questions. America's Midwest has to pray that there isn't aa all-out nuclear war. While the Midwest may escape the damage, the intense radiation and fallout will be a most miserable death.

One of the things I learned during my questions and answers is that many American supermarkets maintain supplies for only a three-day level and regular usage rates. A run on the local store will be over quickly.

I can understand why your friend didn't recognize the underlying message of what you were trying to discuss, Ricardo. We are sometimes just the blind leading the blind. Hopefully, all this craziness will come to an end soon, and the Iranians and the Saudis will fall in love with each other. The Israelis and Syrians will see eye-to-eye, India and Pakistan will stop their arms race, and so forth, but I doubt it. In the meantime, if you know anyone that has an idea of how to properly prepare for an international scare and associated financial meltdown, let me know. I think it is an interesting subject.

I'd also like to know if money could be made as the result of such a scare!smilies/wink.gif Smiles, Ricardo!
...
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 06, 2010

Ederson: I can understand why your friend didn't recognize the underlying message of what you were trying to discuss, Ricardo.


*****


Ricardo: Ederson, because people think that after such a nuclear attack to Tokyo, the following day it would be business as usual here in the United States, and the US would retaliate and punish North Korea, and life would move on as if nothing had happen in Japan that it would affect life here in the United States.

It takes time for people to grasp the scope of the massive destruction to the entire economic, and financial system around the world, and the chain reaction of events that would move at the speed of light creating havoc to the financial and economic system of countries from around the world.

After my friend grasped what I was saying about the immediate consequences of a North Korea nuclear attack against Tokyo, and the immediate catastrophic situation that such an event would cause to the global economy, then he told me that the US government must have a contingency plan that covers such an event.

I told him please don't count on that, because we have a very incompetent government, and the way the US government responded to the Hurricane Katrina catastrophe gives you an idea of what kind of reaction to expect from the US government in the event of a North Korea nuclear attack against Tokyo.

.
Ederson
written by João da Silva, December 06, 2010

I'd also like to know if money could be made as the result of such a scare!


I am building more bunkers! You can run chartered flights to bring in frightened "guests" fleeing Tokyo!! Will sign an agreement with ASP to be the sole supplier of Peanut butter for the community kitchen.smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gif
Joao, what a brilliant idea!
written by Ederson, December 06, 2010
I'll never believe that someone isn't making a great deal of money out of all this confusion and mayhem. I often wonder if the Yanks are on to something at times, because many of them are able to make money during both the good and bad times. The Yankee Midwest already has a number of people who are stocking extra food, clothes, etc., and I'm not always sure it's just because of the economy. They call themselves "Survivalists." There are many companies that cater to them. I think the Mormons are required to keep a year's supply of whatever they need to keep alive in their homes.

"Ederson's Flight from Fright" sounds like a possibility!smilies/cheesy.gif And I can only imagine that no matter where you live, there's goingto be an increased demand for well-stocked bunkers. All we need now is someone willing to spread the message that the bomb is coming, someday! smilies/wink.gifI think we might have found our spokesman in Ricardo!

Ricardo. Help us all become rich! Don't give anyone a due date for the bomb; just tell them that the future is going to be loud and hungry and to prepare. I'll think of a way to cash in on this cow.smilies/cheesy.gif I can see it now; "Ederson's Survival Crumpets!"
...
written by João da Silva, December 06, 2010

"Ederson's Flight from Fright" sounds like a possibility!


The right title for the movie is "Flight of the Frightened". Produced and directed by ASP. Financed by the Swiss banker at 1.7% interest/year (or less).smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/grin.gif
stock it with nutrella....
written by asp, December 06, 2010
i mean really folks, there is a much more posibility of an earth quake hitting tokyo instead of north korrean nukes

tokyo sits on a fault line more active than the san andreas fault line

if you want to look at a realistic situation, that is much more likely scenario than north korrean nukes

one way or the other, the world would find its way
...
written by João da Silva, December 06, 2010

i mean really folks, there is a much more posibility of an earth quake hitting tokyo instead of north korrean nukes


What difference does it make ? Tokyo has to be evacuated ASAP and I suggest you have a contingency plan to receive its fleeing citizens and resettle them in your neighborhood. smilies/cry.gif
Reply to Joao da Silva
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 09, 2010

Ricardo: De acordo com artigo publicado na Folha de Sao Paulo: "O ministro Nelson Jobim (Defesa) disse nesta quarta-feira que foi convidado pela presidente eleita, Dilma Rousseff, para continuar no cargo e afirmou que aceitou o convite."

Espero que ele mantenha as tropas do exercito no Rio de Janeiro.

E nao seria uma ma ideia tambem mandar tropas do exercito para limpar a cidade de Sao Paulo.

Aproveitaa oportunidade e faz uma limpeza geral.

.
In the meantime the US is getting closer to a nuclear war against North Korea.
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 09, 2010

Ricardo: The US war drums are getting louder and louder....

Associated Press: US Committed to Defend South Korea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...r_embedded

I don't speak Korean, but at the end of this video the South Korean General probably said:

Let's get the show on the road!!!!!


*****


Ricardo: This military has passed the point of sending Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and it has reached the next critical level.

This crisis has reached the same level of the 1962 Cuban nuclear missile crisis when the United States came as close as a few hours from a nuclear war with the Soviet Union.

Did you see on this video all this high ranking military guys getting ready for a possible nuclear war with North Korea. The United States sent their top gun for this meeting.

Michael Glenn "Mike" Mullen is a United States Navy admiral who currently serves as the 17th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS).

The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (CJCS) is by law the highest ranking military officer in the United States armed forces, and the principal military adviser to the President of the United States, the National Security Council, the Homeland Security Council and the Secretary of Defense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...s_of_Staff

.
United States and North Korea on the brink of Nuclear War.
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 09, 2010

United States and North Korea on the brink of Nuclear war.

“US, South Korea eye shift in rules of engagement on North Korea”
By Donald Kirk, Correspondent - The Christian Science Monitor - December 8, 2010

Seoul's top general and US Adm. Mike Mullen did not formally announce a shift in rules of engagement. But South Korean analysts believe they are shaping the first possible strategy shift since the Korean War.

...Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the US armed forces, said after meeting his South Korean counterpart that South Korea as a “sovereign nation” had “every right to protect its people in order to effectively carry out its responsibility.”

That remark was seen here to mean that the US would not stand in the way of South Korean commanders ordering fighter jets to bomb and strafe North Korean bases...

.
They are cornering North Korea from every direction.
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 09, 2010

Ricardo: They are closing the circle on North Korea.

“International Criminal Court starting investigation into possible North Korean war crimes” - Associated Press – December 8, 2010

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ne...5967568625

UNITED NATIONS - The prosecutor of the International Criminal Court says his office is starting a preliminary examination of possible war crimes by North Korea in response to complaints from South Korean students and citizens.

Luis Moreno Ocampo told a news conference Tuesday that no state requested the court's intervention.

But he said in response to communications from South Korean citizens that his office will decide whether a full-scale investigation should be carried out into the Nov. 23 shelling of South Korea's Yeonpyeong Island and the sinking of a South Korean warship in March.

He said his office must determine whether the incidents constitute war crimes, if the court has jurisdiction, and if the South Korean government is taking legal action.

The court is based in The Hague, Netherlands.

.
The preemptive attack game - who is going to start it?
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 09, 2010

Ricardo: The United States has a policy of preemptive attack = translation = since that works both ways that forces North Korea to try to beat the US regarding any preemptive attack.

North Korea has been cornered by the United States, South Korea and Japan – and they are all provoking North Korea to take the first step on the preemptive attack game.

The leadership of North Korea knows that they are going to end up like Saddam Hussein anyway, and what is the difference between dying as a result of nuclear war or by being hanged.

Being hanged is probably a more painful way of dying than by an attack with nuclear weapons.

If the North Koreans don't use their nuclear weapons right now under such a heavy degree of provocation from the United States, South Korea and Japan, then that means that North Korea does not have nuclear weapons to use it when they need, and it would give a signal to the United States that they can destroy North Korea from the air with minor consequence regarding any North Korean retaliation.

This is the time for a North Korean nuclear weapons showdown – or they use it at this critical turning point in North Korean history or North Korea better just roll over and play dead for now on.

One thing is very clear: There are 3 countries that are provoking North Korea and these 3 countries are potential target for a nuclear attack - the United States, South Korea and Japan.

Then Japan becomes the obvious choice for a nuclear attack by North Korea - and to be more exact Tokyo has a big bulls eye as the number one target for such nuclear warheads to land.

All North Korea needs is for 4 or 5 nuclear warheads to land in Tokyo for them to accomplish their goal in a massive preemptive attack.

North Korea would have only one chance, and that is that surprise preemptive attack with everything they have against Tokyo.
.
Reply to Joao da Silva
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 09, 2010

Ricardo: I don't know what these people are waiting for to call for an emergency meeting of the U N Security Council to discuss this critical military crisis in the Korean Peninsula before the s**t hits the fan.

.
Ricardo
written by Ederson, December 09, 2010
You are a lone voice in the wilderness my friend. Most people couldn't find the Koreas, Iran and Saudi Arabia, or Syria and Israel on the map. Everyone believes such a war is unthinkable and would be aghast to know there are countries who feel the bomb is a logical extension of their military power. Oh, well.
While the bomb itself might be less dangerous than commonly believed, the aftereffects, especially economic, will be devastating. Good luck on trying to spread the word. I would still enjoy reading a paper listing the detailed effects of such a blast, even after an accidental blast or minor war, on the world's economy. Perhaps, then, more people will listen. Things that hurt our pocketbooks have a way of keeping us awake at night. Again, Ricardo, good luck on getting your message out there, but don't be surprised if you are ignored.
Ricardo, Tokyo
written by Ederson, December 09, 2010
Ricardo, I was just leaving my home when I noticed this morning on the television news that Admiral Mullens warned the Chinese today to pull back their proxy army, for the area is on the verge off an all-out-war.

Again, no one is listening.

But what caught my eye was from where he was making the announcement: Tokyo! I had to smile and think of you.
Ederson
written by João da Silva, December 09, 2010

But what caught my eye was from where he was making the announcement: Tokyo! I had to smile and think of you.


Did the good Admiral take the opportunity to advise the panic stricken citizens of Tokyo to evacuate the city ASAP. If not, I would consider him to be an irresponsible fellow.
Target Tokyo!
written by Ederson, December 09, 2010
Tokyo has about 850 square miles within its incorporated limits. Modern atomic bombs are much smaller than the older one-megaton weapons from the fifties and sixties that would bring a firey hell to about 100 square miles. Modern ones, effectively are not much larger than the ones dropped on Japan earlier, which essentially destroyed from 6 to 10 square miles.

I believe that Tokyo could take any number of hits and remain a city; however, it would be a terrifying existence for the survivors. I can only imagine that if Japan is truly capable of manufacturing its own nuclear bombs that the assembly line is running tonight.

I hope this is just more North Korean posturing on behalf of their Chinese puppet masters, but sooner of later, the Japanese are probably going to call someone's bluff.

I think in so many words that is exactly what the admiral is trying to tell the Chinese.

If North Korea gets hit hard enough, Iran and Syria will think twice about their insane posturing. I hope we never find out.smilies/wink.gif But I believe Ricardo's fears are justified. If not this week, certainly someday.
...
written by João da Silva, December 09, 2010

Target Tokyo!


Excellent title for a movie. Unfortunately Greg Peck and Jimmy Stewart are dead to play the leading role. In their absence you or I can take over the command.smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/grin.gif

I can only imagine that if Japan is truly capable of manufacturing its own nuclear bombs that the assembly line is running tonight.


No worries. If the Japanese workers go on strike, I can politely request my ex-boss (A Nippo Brasilian) to fly to Tokyo and run the "assembly line" more "smoothly". BTW, he doesn't speak Japanese!!!
The military crisis between the United States and North Korea is escalating one step at the time...
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 09, 2010

Ricardo: The Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff met with the Japanese Defense Minister on Thursday in Tokyo about the nuclear war against North Korea.

The military crisis between the United States and North Korea is escalating, with the possibility of getting completely out of control

Top U.S. Military Official Calls for Stronger Ties with Japan – December 9, 2010

http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv...94663.html

The Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff met with the Japanese Defense Minister on Thursday in Tokyo, where the two agreed to stage more joint military drills.

The United States' top military official, Admiral Mike Mullen, says Tokyo, Seoul and Washington must build an even stronger alliance in the face of North Korean aggression.

.
the hackers shall set us free
written by bbm, December 09, 2010
think all the hackers shall be forgiven if they do send a mortal computer bug to hit Visa, mastercard and American Express, this would be worse than a terrorist act, destroy their transation database. For effect visa has data center in Sao Paulo Brasil - Mexico city, and Kentucky - secret data operations. Wikileaks has given us some good ideas.
Joao, movie star!
written by Ederson, December 10, 2010
Joao, what a coincidence, I'm in the middle of writing the screenplay. I'm also impressed that you, as one of my best friends, volunteered so quickly to co-star with me.
However, that won't be necessary. I was planning to make it a love story and rather steamy, so if you don't mind, I was going to invite Patricia Velasquez to be my co-star. It's going to be a remake of the Doctor Strangelove movie. It will be called "Doctor Makelove- The search for Doctor Cata."

So, you can understand why I've switched you with Patricia Velasquez!smilies/cheesy.gif No hard feelings, okay?smilies/cheesy.gif

I'd like to redo the Slim Picken's scene where he rides the A-bomb out of the B-52 while cheering and waving his cowboy hat. Are you okay with airplanes? Can you wear a cowboy hat?smilies/cheesy.gif That was a great movie and kept me laughing.
Take care, Joao. I always have fun stirring things up on your site, but it appears as if I may have to leave again, shortly. I'll be back someday,
Ederson
written by João da Silva, December 10, 2010
Take care, Joao. I always have fun stirring things up on your site, but it appears as if I may have to leave again, shortly. I'll be back someday,


Thanks, Eddie. Likewise. I am sure Ricardo and ASP share my sentiments. But..but... we recognize that you are a mission oriented person like those good folks in Tokyo. Pop in once in a while to say hello to us. Hope to hear from you before X-mas & 2011. If not, Merry X-mas and a wonderful 2011 for you and all your nearest and dearest.
gasp gasp shock shock !! what if .......
written by asp, December 10, 2010
what if , north korrea doesnt send any nukes at all to tokyo ?

my god , that would be a shock....losing all that oportunity since they are going to be hanged anyway

i just dont think i could handle it if north korrea doesnt send nukes to tokyo

by ederson, dont forget the nutrela
asp
written by João da Silva, December 10, 2010

by ederson, dont forget the nutrela


Do you think Eddie is on a secret trip to Tokyo to drop leaflets urging the residents to flee from the invading North Korean forces? Hope he takes his favorite "Zimbabwean" Ridgeback (politically correct term to describe the animals) as the copilot to "accomplish the mission".

But..but..but.. only the time will tell.smilies/cool.gif
I can't stop laughing!
written by Ederson, December 10, 2010
I'm gone for a just a few hours, and already the insults start flying!smilies/cheesy.gif
Give my ancestors a break, Joao; it's "Rhodesian". asp, I won't forget.smilies/wink.gif
Ederson
written by João da Silva, December 11, 2010

Give my ancestors a break, Joao; it's "Rhodesian"


I´m so sorry Eddie. To make amends, I promise to name the airstrip where you plan to land your chartered flights "Ian Smith International Airport".smilies/wink.gif
...
written by nb, December 14, 2010
It seems, that every country has some funny troubles because of wikileaks.

www.energetikai.lt
Brazil needs to defend its "independence" because the USA&NATO-EUROPE wage a "Soft War".
written by Otton Bexaron, December 26, 2010
Beyond any military hardware and computer-tech, Brazil needs to fortify and organize its political defense against the geopolitical aims of USA-NATO-Europe: Gen. Augusto Heleno never said it, but Col. Gelio Fregapani states it clearly: The USA, Britain, Netherlands are the geopolitical adversaries of Brazil souveranity. Gen. Heleno only altered to the "a problem", Col. Fregapani named it - and both were recalled from their position in Amazonia. Gen. Heleno as Army Commander, and Col. Fregapani as director of Intelligence (GTAM : Grupo de Trabalho - Ejercito-Policia Federal-ABIN). Germany has been delegated by the USA&NATO to lead the subversions of Brazil's independence. The a continous massive anti-Brazil campaign has been a permanent feature in the German-language media (Germany, Austria,Switzerland) and many "Germanic" political de facto agents are subverting in Brazil and propagandizing against Brazil in "Germanic" Europe (100 million pop.). Last month' in Nov. the German General Klaus Naumann (ex-military director NATO) was in Rio to force the "break of the north-south divide" for NATO: The USA/NATO want to extend into the South Atlantic (and of course South America). Jobim did a magnificent counter attack and shouted Brazil's and South America "NAO". All details are in "Defesanet" (Jobim's version) and in the journal of "Fundacao Conrad Adenauer Rio de Janeiro (German version also in portuguese). The Germans were shocked! Previously Jobim had been in the White House and hat stated a more diplomatic "reservation" against Nato expansion to National Security Advisor Gen. James Jones, Asst. Sec. of State A. Valenzuela and several senators. Jobim told the Germans: 1. Only South Americans are responsible for the defense of the subcontinent. 2. The subcontinent needs a "dissuasive structure" to be able to say "NAO" when it should say "NAO". When the German General Naumann whined: "The USA depends on Europe as partners to maintain its role in the world!", Jobim replied: "We are not partners of the USA to maintain tis role in the world!" The Germans wrote: "Minister Jobim spoke a strong attack against the Nato activies around the world!" Back to the Germans: This month December 1. The German ambassador stops by to check on FUNAI in Manaus ("got to watch the Brazilians"...), 2. The "Tojan Horse" of the USA and NATO in Brazil, Marina da Silva met with ALL European ambassadors in Brasilian: "The Girl from NATO"! (About: "Sustainibility": Keep those Brazilians from destroying the Amazon...), 3. Propaganda caravan of the Catholic Church (CIMI) with International Rivers, Survival International and other NGOs in Scandinavia and Berlin/Germany with a group of Guarani from Mato Gross ("defending the Indigenous against the Brazilians")- with feature of the austrian catholic bishop Erwin Kraeutler (since 1963 in Altamira/Para) whom the now right-wing Swedes had given the "Alternative Novel Prize" (they could not find one Latin American among 500 million - it had to be a "Great White Father" from Europe!). All those activities are essentially funded directly or indirectly by the U.S., by the German and other NATO governments. (When you check "Deutsche Welle Belo Monte" you notice many propaganda items which this German government TV & radio netword reports completely one-sided about the PAC Belo Monte project which the USA und NATO-Europe has provented - since 1975 - largely by means of the Vatikan, and British "artists", now also Hollywood personalities). 4. Wait - here is the real news - in the meandtime the Catholic Church/CIMI just finished staging the formation of an organization that will propagandize for an "Autonomous Guarani Zone" (Separatists!) in the border areas of Brazil-Argentina-Paraguay-Bolivia. Prof. Lerrer-Rosenfield had already foreseen it, as it Col.Fregapani. --- Brazil has to prepare for a series of geopolitical provocation - which the USA and NATO-Europe/Vatikan - will execute through their de facto agents: Catholic Church-CIMI, World Wildlife Fund, Greenspeace, International Rivers, Survival International, Amazonwatch. (All German political parties are active in Brazil and maintain offices: FDP, CDU,CSU,Gruene,SPD,Linke - all paid by the German government). What to study regularly: "Defesanet" and "Arco de Fronteiras" about Brazil's geopolitical and military defense, "Portal Amazonia.com" provides daily news from all Amazon states. Bom, isto a tudo hoje - boa sorte em 2011! (There are interesting youtube videos about "General Augusto Heleno" and "Gelio Fregapani")
...
written by João da Silva, December 26, 2010

Jobim did a magnificent counter attack and shouted Brazil's and South America "NAO".


I am so sorry to say:Jobim is very theatrical, while Gen.Augusto is practical,focused,objective and down to earth. The good General would have made an excellent Minister of Defense, but...but...but... Dª.Dilma decided to stick with Jobim. What else to do other than putting up with Sr.Jobim during the next 4 years.smilies/sad.gif
Concordo Joao, but let me explain: Jobim lectured energetically, and did not acutally "shout".
written by Otton Bexaron, December 26, 2010
Jobim did not "shout" in the theatrical sense - and did not "shout" at all: I just used that expression in a "poetic" sense. But Jobim did twice say "Nao" as geopolitical statement: Jobim to Gen. Naumann: "We will not be partners of the USA to maintain its dominant role in the world!" - and "Brasil and the subcontinent have to constitute a dissuasive structure ("aparato") for extra-regional threats, which permits them to say "NAO" when they should say "NAO"!" Jobims long lecture to Gen. Naumann is recorded in "Defesanet" - look at the dates of Nov. possibly 22nd. - and what the Germans write about their reaction - is in the "jornal" of "Fundacao Konrad Adenauer Rio de Janeiro" - also in portuguese version. Again: They Germans were shocked and left empty-handed - together with their "partners" from NATO Britain and Poland: NO SALE! - When you see the youtube videos related to Gen. Helenos removal as commander from Amazonia (2008, Col.Fregapani was removed for similar reasons 2007) - you have to realize that Dilma can't make him Defense Minister - although Lula himself has amply signaled that he agrees with the concern of Gen. Heleno (and Col.Fregapani) and many others - in the military, in the government, in academia: Lula - June 22, 2010 at Altamira/Para at the site of the Belo Monte Projekt: "...and no Gringo should stick his nose into where he has not been called. We know how to take care of our forests!" In light of the sad history of Brazil's military 1964-85 - Brazil should never have a Defense Minister who comes from the military - and instead a geopolitical academic (Marco Aurelio Garcia, Dennis Lerrer Rosenfield, Munoz Bandeira - or others). Chile had a female Defense Minister - pediatrician Dr. Bachelet, und "macho" Spain has a female lawyer - as Defense Minister - who was pregnant when swearing the oath of office and inspecting the flag guard, see youtube video : CARME CHACON MINISTRA DEFENSA. 2011 - Brazil needs a Defense Minister with geopolitical vision - the Jobim of today is acceptable to the military, to the right, to the left - and since he stood now up against NATO - he could be the practical choice for Dilma.
The UN 2007 Indigenous Rights Declaration - a concern of Gen.Heleno and Col.Fregapani, now signed by Obama.
written by Otton Bexaron, December 26, 2010
The 2007 UN Declaration of Rights of Indigenous Peoples was signed by Brazil and many nations in 2007. Gradually other nations signed it. Now, the U.S. as LAST has also signed it. See: "Obama reversal on indigenous people rights stirs concern over legal claims" (Fox). The danger is, that now the U.S., Britain, Germany will increase their subversion in Latin America by instigating separatist operations and demand the "autonomy" of indigenous "lands" under the "protection of the international community". Even at the price of many long legal suits in the USA and Canada (which also just signed). Thus Brazil (and Latin America) must be alert that this issue will be used by the U.S. and Nato-Europe to destabilize the domestic stability and inhibit the national territorial sovereignity of Brazil (and other nations). If the U.S. signed now - we can suspect that the timing is part of a geopolitical strategy which the U.S. and NATO-Europe will use against many in Latin America, Africa and Asia. In der case of Brazil - Gen. Heleno, Col. Fregapani and many others have been alerting about this problem for the national territorial sovereignity, ethnic cohesions and internal stability. (I agree with them as an uninvolved and far-away geopolitical observer!)
now , let me see if i got this straight.......
written by asp, December 27, 2010
brazil is going to have to prepare to defend itself militarily from the likes of this :

"Brazil has to prepare for a series of geopolitical provocation - which the USA and NATO-Europe/Vatikan - will execute through their de facto agents: Catholic Church-CIMI, World Wildlife Fund, Greenspeace, International Rivers, Survival International, Amazonwatch. (All German political parties are active in Brazil and maintain offices: FDP, CDU,CSU,Gruene,SPD,Linke - all paid by the German government). "

i just find it extremly perplexing that there would be an analysis of what are the destabalising factors in the area, and, not mention the kind of drug and arms dealing going on from colombia, into venezuela, bolivia , paraguai and into brazil...

i mean really, every day life is much more affected by this. im flabergasted there are people who think crack addiction isnt a huge problem in brazil . i see notices where i live of crack busts almost on a daily basis,where gun battles and people getting assasinated are on an almost daily basis, yet, you are telling me the catholic church and green peace, and various other ngo envirnment groups and germany , all ordered by the usa, and with marina da silva the trogan horse, are the real threat to brazilian soverenty ?

i mean, really, are you for real ? or are you just another person just blaming the reliable boogy man , the usa, as the evil bad guy ready to invade brazil, when hugo chavez supporting farc is reeking real havoc in the area

what country are you from , by the way ?
...
written by João da Silva, December 27, 2010

(I agree with them as an uninvolved and far-away geopolitical observer!)


As one quite involved and "in-house" geopolitical expert, I do not agree with the position of your buddy Nelson Jobim. I have seen the original interview given on the TV by Gen.Heleno and unfortunately you are misquoting him.

Brazil should never have a Defense Minister who comes from the military - and instead a geopolitical academic (Marco Aurelio Garcia, Dennis Lerrer Rosenfield, Munoz Bandeira - or others).


The last time we had a Sorbonne trained "geopolitical academic" as the President, our national assets were sold to the Spaniards, Italians and the French for peanuts. So please stop clapping hands and chanting the glories of such people who look down on their own countrymen.smilies/angry.gif
asp
written by João da Silva, December 27, 2010

what country are you from , by the way ?


He must be Arnie Schwarzenegger´s compatriot or that of Angela Merckel. smilies/wink.gif
Do not take my word - read Gelio Frepaganis TWO last editorials in "Defesanet"....
written by Otton Bexaron, December 29, 2010
You can save me a lot of work explaining to you what is really going on: Read the last two editorials by Gelio Fregapani in "Defesanet" - both published this month December. Col. Fregapani is a retired brazilian military intelligence officer - last as director of GTAM in Amazonia Legal. (GTAM Grupo de Trabalho Amazonia: Military, Policia Federal, ABIN.) He was removed - in 2007, just as was Gen. Heleno in 2008 - for voicing the facts too publicly about the subversion and geopolitical danger posed by all those "environmental groups" and "religious institutions" in Amazonia. If you cannot read his editorials - because you can't read Portuguese - you should forget about thinking about Brazil and keep tuned to Fox News or your friendly neighborhood priest. The "Soft War" against Brazil is ongoing. Military hardware is not really of much use - because at best it can be "dissuasive" as Jobim called it. Brazil could not really defend itself against some concerted U.S.-NATO "operation" - only "disuade". And the USA, Britain, Germany are not going to "attack" Brazil but "paralyse" it geopolitically. Therefore the primary defense of Brazil must be geopolitical - and for that reason Brazil needs a geopolitically astute defense minister with graduate level education both in Brazil, as well as U.S. and Europe - and this type of person comes from the universities. I already mentioned some names - but only as examples: Both the right and the left in Brazil now AGREE on the urgent need to organize the geopolitical defense of Brasil. Especially the control over the activities of the hundreds of american and european NGOs, some of which I already mentioned. Do you believe the U.S.,Britain, Germany are financing the NGOs and the "church" with hundreds of millions to "help" Brazilians ? Read what Col. Fregapani "wonders" about the true "mission" of Sister Dorothy - and why the FBI (wikileaks) made such unusal effort to come down and investigate the case... There are hundreds of U.S. Americans and Europeans throughout Brazil who are not really that what they seem to be... Brazil is a BIG item on the list!
well , f**king linc me up, otto...
written by asp, December 29, 2010
get me a f**king linc to these articles

because, i live down here in brazil, for 24 years . and, i know what i have to deal with in everyday life. i try to stay informed about what the problems are that affect peoples lives.

and , i have seen the discusion about the ngo's in the amazon and the government taking a stand against it. they seem very capable of handling what is good about those ngos and what is bad.

your koffee klatch , conspiricy theory , paranoid analysis of it, only reveals someone a long ways away making paranoid armchair quarter back conclusions.

if you lived in brazil, you would see the devastation that crack cocaine is taking on society . you would read about thousands of lives devastated by the drug ,all over brazil from north to south. you would see , in small communities like where i live, almost daily reports of crack cocaine busts that were rare 10 years ago, and violent murders with weapons and coke imported from paraguay, colombia, bolivia, venezuela

you would read that leaders like hugo chavez aids and abbetts thugs like the farc who are one of the groups with their hands in on this coke and arms dealing , with direct ties with drug gangs like the pcc and fernando beiramar, as well as mato grosso de sul, bahia and the amazonas area

you would understand that the things going on in the amazonas are complex and not cut and dried conspiricy theories with the great big usa boogy mand behind it all

as a matter of fact, there are plenty of people who do live in brazil , but are so ideaologcicly against the usa that they are blind to these realities also
asp
written by João da Silva, December 29, 2010

If you cannot read his editorials - because you can't read Portuguese - you should forget about thinking about Brazil and keep tuned to Fox News or your friendly neighborhood priest.


You think Dr.L.C. in his new "Avatar"? smilies/wink.gifsmilies/cheesy.gif
haha, no, just another person...
written by asp, December 29, 2010
who thinks the usa is the great big boogy man behind all the evil in the world

god, i looked at one of the articles over there on defesa net, looks like its kind of nationalistic...nothing wrong with that, except it can get tainted...

about subsidies, of course the usa and other nations are going to be trying to do all they can to help their countries in this financial crisis.and, brazil has been quite capable at taking them to international courts and winning verdicts in their favor.

geezus f**k, its not like there arnt subsidies and taxes in place down here against electronic items, and such...it goes both ways, its not a usa conspiricy for christs sake

you know, otto, this nationalist side has raised its ugly head before in a really negative way. there was an incicdent down here where there was a very big conspiricy to try to say there was a history book in the usa, and in all the classrooms there , saying that the amazonas was really international territory that the world had a right to defend and ocupy if they had to.

it was proved to be a total hoax . what a dirty little lie that was spread to create hate and paranoia of the usa. what kind of people would go to that end to have to outright lie about something to try to get people to hatge the usa. it is really fascinating to see the far far left and far far right hold hands down here to come together to paint the usa as the great big boogy man ready to come down and invade and take over brazil .

about the sister dorthy thing, i would check out some documentaries that show you that there is some really bad stuff going down there from giant land owners who want to extract wood and the people they have murdered along the way to make sure they can keep doing it.

its just more complex than the conspiricy theories that you are implying or the general

if the general cant also address the problems from cocaine and arms coming in from thugs like farc with support from chavez and other thugs who are raping brazil with this river of crack and guns coming in, then he needs to go back to the drawing board, tweak his theories, and, give us the total picture.

happy new year joao, im not leaving my apartment, but, im in the cabana in the day...whew...its another world out here now where i live
Where to look for sober information about Brazil"s geopolitical defense:
written by Otton Bexaron, December 29, 2010
There are blogs by knowlegeable individuals and by academic think tanks in Brazil. "Defesanet" is published by private sources, and is not an official publication of the Armed Forces. But the content of "Defesanet" probably reflects what members of the brazilian security and defense community are discussing, are concerned about, and should know about general defense developments as well as the GEOPOLITICAL aspects of defense. (I only read it to notice that my analysis and obervations - which I form previously, independently and from outside Brazil - are CONFIRMED. I do not need "Defesanet" to know what is happening and what may happens GEOPOLITICALLY - I already know that from observations and deductions, and experience outside the context of Brazil. But - I am not important and I am not anybody "you need to know": Just an international observer who is sympathetic with the cause of Brazil's "independence".) Thus, for current exampels, turn now to "Defesanet" - go to the column "Materias Exclusivas" - items date 17. Dez. "Comentario Gelio Fregapani" and 25. Dez. "Comentario Gelio Fregapani" (he was director of intelligence for Amazonia - both the military and ABIN the national intelligence agency). 16. Dez. "Economia Desnacionalicada" - read both I. and II.- Now turn to column "Giro noticia" item 17 Dez. "Congresso Americano permite vendas de armas a carteis" based on the New York Times criticism of the U.S. governments failure to stop the NRA weapons lobby: A weapons dealers (hundreds in Texas just yards from the Mexican border) can sell up to 14 - AK47 rifles on one day to one customer without even notifying the U.S. authorities: The USA furnishes the weapons , the ammunition and the drug addicts. And the "war against drugs" is essentially a U.S. geopolitical operation to have a pretext to intervene across the world and station U.S. personnel. In the 19th century the U.S. was a nation of acoholics, in the 20th it became the primary nations of narcotic addicts - its a great business for U.S. "law enforcement", the legal "community" (lawyers, courts, jails) and useful for geopolitical purposes. Most U.S. Americans can't get through the day without drugs (illegal or prescription), or the "Holy Bible" (as the author Max Frisch once wrote: "The the back-slapping protectors of mankind, - until drunk, - then hysterical weeping.)" Notice most of their soldiers came back whacky from Vietnam and now "mental health" is the biggest problem of those who return from Afghanistan and Irak ? Item 22.Dez "Fonte Interno - ONGS" (the NGOs financed by U.S. Britain, Germany are waging a continous international smear campaign against everything in Brazil, especially the government: The purpose to diminish the geopolitical influence of Brazil.) Dez.21: "Lula critica EUA" (Lula speaking to the Brazilian military criticizes the U.S.). In case you too are not "clear-headed" today, on this day, over 700,000 people in the USA live "on the street" - among them 130,000 U.S. military veterans (stated by U.S. Secretru of Veterans Affairs) - instead of spending HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS each year, on subverting the nations of Latin America, U.S. Congress should get 700,000 U.S. Americans off the streets and into housing. Go through any downtown of any city in the USA today after midnight and look at all the people sleeping in doorways or under cardboad in alleys...
of course you are a long way a way.....
written by asp, December 29, 2010
i dont get people like you at all and your attemts to portay the usa as the greatest booby man of all...

who in gods name is saying there arnt arms and drug deals in the usa? for sure with mexico...and more than brazil..

BUT THIS IS SOUTH AMERICA, OTTO !!!!!!

the militias in colombia are the ones who are dealing north and the farc and other dealers that they are hooked up with or independent with, deal south... the biggest coke dealer from colombia was busted in brazil with a house not far from me , with a freind. they were sent north to the usa , to jail , because that is where they are dealing. but the farc network spreads from colombia into bolivia down to paraguai and also from colombia into venezuela and down into brazil, all with routes that alos fly it to europe.

you think i am talking about these crack problems to tell you the usa is better ? get a grip, im telling you about these crack problems because they do exist and are a decay on brazils society and that , while people like you play the usa as the big boogy man and say the sovernty of brazil is at stake because of the usa and its agents including marina da silva and a bunch of ngos , im telling you the bigger problem is crack cocaine and hookups by drug gangs in the big cities and other areas by farc and other groups. and there is proof that hugo chavez aids and abbettes farc and sells them arms.

and that is a much bigger destabalising factor than what you are saying

otto, f**king linc me up or f**k your lincs, im not wasting my valuable time with a conspiricy theory anti americanist , running after blog articles from who knows where
asp
written by João da Silva, December 29, 2010

happy new year joao, im not leaving my apartment, but, im in the cabana in the day...whew...its another world out here now where i live


Thanks for the New Year, ASP. Same to you, E & J. I started seeing the "other world" since Christmas eve and seems to be interesting.smilies/wink.gif

I think our new buddy Otto either a Turk or a Bulgarian, trying to save Brasil from the Americans, English, Polish, and other members of the NATO. I appreciate his efforts and so should you .smilies/cheesy.gifsmilies/grin.gif

P.S: Happy 2011 to you, Otto.
Otton Bexaron
written by João da Silva, December 30, 2010

Where to look for sober information about Brazil"s geopolitical defense:


Otto, never mind if you are a simple nobody sitting at a far distance worried about Brasil´s "independence". You may advise our distinguished fellow blogger ASP where to look for "sober information on Brasil´s defense" or accuse him of lacking in knowledge of Portuguese. But...but...but... I cant be accused of such misdeeds! I do read Defesanet once in a while and I prefer not give my opinion.smilies/cool.gif

What really intrigues me is that you have not mentioned anything about the influence of the French (who are trying to sell worthless toy planes to us) and the Chinese who just ended up buying almost a Billion dollar worth "strategic assets" (in the power sector). You also seem to overrate the Comrade Academics in their ability to grasp the "Geopolitics", when we all know full well that not many of them can locate Pyongyang or Sophia on a world map. smilies/wink.gif

So Comrade Bexaron,in my humble peasants view, you lost all the credibility to participate in our next government in any level. Regardless, please accept my warmest wishes for a wonderful 2011 in the faraway place you currently call "home".
Reply to Joao da Silva
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, January 02, 2011

Joao, happy new year.

A little over a month ago I had the chance to meet Nelson Jobin in person when he went with a group of Brazilians to visit the West Point Academy. They spent the entire day at the academy, which included a lecture by Nelson Jobin, and at the end of the day they had dinner with a group of cadets of WP Academy on a ship on the Hudson River.

I was sick at that time, and I could not attend that event on that day. Maybe the next time he comes around to New York with president Rousseff, I will have the chance to meet him and also president Rousseff.

My friend, former president Sarney, also was supposed to be with that group that visited West Point Academy, but he had to cancel his trip to the USA, because of personal health problems.

I wish Dilma Rousseff good luck, and an outstanding administration in the next 4 years.

.

Reply to Ederson and to ASP
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, January 02, 2011

Ederson: In the future, I will be searching for information concerning the economic effects of even an isolated, or perhaps accidental nuclear weapons explosion.


*****


Ricardo: Ederson, a happy new year for you and your family.

Human beings never in the history of the world have made a perfect anything. It does not matter what humans have been able to build or manufacture there's always a flaw, an imperfection in an object or machine.

We never had an accidental nuclear warhead explosion anywhere on our planet – and the highest probability of a nuclear warhead explosion is probably on this area. They have been manufacturing nuclear warheads for 65 years and right now probably there's a flawed nuclear device that is going to go off by itself.

Where?

That flawed nuclear device that is very unstable and it is ready to explode could be part of any country's nuclear warhead inventory = United States, Soviet Union/Russia, China, France, England, Israel, India, Pakistan, North Korea, Cuba, Brazil, or some other country that has been working on nuclear warhead technology that the world is not aware of it.

September 18, 1980 was a very luck day in Damascus, Arkansas here is why:

September 18, 1980 – At about 6:30 p.m., an airman conducting maintenance on a USAF Titan-II missile at Little Rock Air Force Base's Launch Complex 374-7 in Southside (Van Buren County), just north of Damascus, Arkansas, dropped a socket from a socket wrench, which fell about 80 feet (24 m) before hitting and piercing the skin on the rocket’s first-stage fuel tank, causing it to leak. The area was evacuated. At about 3:00 a.m., on September 19, 1980, the hypergolic fuel exploded. The W53 warhead landed about 100 feet (30 m) from the launch complex’s entry gate; its safety features operated correctly and prevented any loss of radioactive material. An Air Force airman was killed and the launch complex was destroyed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L..._accidents
htp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accidents


*****


ASP: ...that is the greatest fiction scenario i could ever have thought of, you have a wonderful future as a fiction writer...



*****


Ricardo: Regarding the destruction of Tokyo and its devastating impact on the US dollar – I can't take credit for that theory, since it was not my idea. I just changed the source of the destruction from a massive earthquake to a nuclear weapons attack from North Korea against Tokyo.

That theory made an impact on me that's why I still remember to this day when I read in 1995 an article saying that if a similar earthquake to the Kobe earthquake had happened in Tokyo that would have triggered a collapse of the US dollar. Then the article went on to explain the financial implications of such a massive earthquake hitting Tokyo, and the chain reaction of events that would have followed when the Japanese government having to use its massive foreign currency reserves in US dollar to pay for the damages and the reconstruction of Tokyo.

The idea behind that article stayed on the back of my mind all these years, because I realized how vulnerable the US dollar and the international monetary system (because the US dollar is the main foreign reserve currency) was to a simple catastrophic act of nature such as that massive earthquake that destroyed Kobe hitting instead Tokyo, and its consequences to the international monetary system.

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ah, ok , now i see where you are coming from, ricardo
written by asp, January 02, 2011
for sure an earthquake would cause a similar effect...

they are on a fault

of course, i think california could have a massive earthquake and have an affect on the economy
Ricardo Amaral
written by João da Silva, January 02, 2011

Joao, happy new year.


Thank you so much Ricardo. Same to you and your family. Wish you a wonderful New Year.

I was sick at that time, and I could not attend that event on that day.


Hopefully you are much better now and I wish you a speedy recovery. The cold weather in the East Coast got you? The ideal thing to do would be to spend 6 months in the Northern Hemisphere and the other 6 months south of the equator!

You take care and get back to normal health. Cheers.
Suit you sir?
written by Daniel Romero, February 16, 2011
"But, I find nothing in the description of the Wikileaks cables in this article that suggests any imperious and cynical behavior. "

"all this uproar over these documents. I've yet to see anything damaging whatsoever. "

Well, I guess then you have no problems about a hypotetical leftist ambassator trying to convince some North American military personal against their goverment policy? The secretary of defense, perhaps?

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