Brazzil

Max Bono is a typical wannabe investigative journalist that exaggerate and traveling in Brazil. You can contact him at researchinrio@yahoo.com. Max, we know here that the situation is not great in Salvadar, but a war zone? Looks like Libanon? That's a lie and you know that, but perhaps you're trying hard to get a job at cnn international or fox news.

and that is precisely why brazil will never emerge as a country of anything other then what it is a third world crime infested dump ruled by a mere 14000 families ..a country of misery ,crime, corruption, marxism, and disease.. brazil after 300 years is still a non-country

"The mayor of Salvador, João Henrique Carneiro, while his city had become a slaughterhouse, was seen in Rio's Copacabana beach, tanned and relaxed."

That's pretty much the attitude of Brazilian politicians. There's strife in Altamira because of Belo MOnte, in Pinheiros it looked like a war zone when 2000 police expelled mothers and children from their homes, violence in the country's news tourist " safe haven" (Florianopolis) is spiraling out of control, and politicians do nothing but steal and line their pockets.

Brazil will never change, it will only get worse as the population learns from their leaders that lying and cheating is who you get ahead.

violence in the country's news tourist " safe haven" (Florianopolis) is spiraling out of control, and politicians do nothing but steal and line their pockets.

Spot on mate, in spite of you being a "Gringo". I'd cosign with you in your affirmation.

Re this particular article about BA, I invite our more erudite and well informed scholars like Dr.McCray, (W)ASP, et all to comment.

The risky places during these days are actually just the more obvious such as withdrawal machines, some shops and facny places. Nothing unsual.

It gets a little more dangerous at night and the true risk comes up if you dare to enter the so called "popular" neighborhoods. But these places are risky anyway, anytime for everyone who the locals are not familiar with. just like some poor neighbohoods in the the U.S. In summary: Nothing that people around the world haven~t seen before.

The only actual problem we are facing is the bad behavior of part of the poor people and the psicological war between governmetn and the insurgents. These are killing innocent homeless people to make the ccity believe criminals are taking over. But people know very well the crimnal actions pattern, not recognizeable in these actions.

I'm disappointed that cross dressing and male prostitution are not a part of this discussion...we just don't get the attention we deserve.

I'm disappointed that cross dressing and male prostitution are not a part of this discussion...we just don't get the attention we deserve.

Herr.Wisemann, Deutschland hat sich sehr verändert, seit ich es gelassen. In meiner Zeit dort Homosexualität verpönt war, aber gestattet, diskret praktiziert werden. Ich schlage vor, Sie auch diskret sein.

"and that is precisely why brazil will never emerge as a country of anything other then what it is a third world crime infested dump ruled by a mere 14000 families ..a country of misery ,crime, corruption, marxism, and disease.. brazil after 300 years is still a non-country"

Well if you ask me, it sounds a lot like the US........at least they mind their own business, and are not victims of their own paranoia, messing around in other peoples countries, too arrogant to understand why a whole bunch of people don't like them..............

Can somebody please stop this idiot from writing this crap. Salvador is not pleasant at the moment, but most of it is nowhere near what this idiot is describing. I was at the supermarket yesterday, which was nowhere near full and was fully stocked. I took money out of an ATM to pay for my purchases. I walked down my street. I am still alive and well.
Funny how this so-called investigative journalist just happens to be where everything is happening, isn't is? A few days ago he was in the middle of an "arrastão." Then in a later article he claims to hear murder threats in his current article. Then later he writes as if as if he was in Salvador, Feira de Santana and Itabuna in the same day.
I'm a former newspaper editor. I know bulls**t when I see it, and this reporting has all the hallmarks of fantasy. I do not believe this so-called reporter has witnessed what he claims to witness. Brazzil is doing reporting a disservice by publishing this crap.
Yes, Salvador is dangerous and in the middle of a police strike. Even when there is no police strike, Salvador is dangerous. But beyond that, there is little truth in this person's reporting.

Because the description of the climate in Salvador is accurate. It is even worse if you compare the tourist areas, where they have placed troops, and the regular neighborhoods. You do everything in the day...around 6 or 7 most people return home. I volunteer at a community center from 5 to 8pm. All of the classes were cancelled. While our young people were waiting outside of the center, groups of youths on motorcycles threatened them to not be there when they returned. We had near panic attacks with the older members of the community center. One lady just stood in front of me and cried silently. Another wanted to find another plain plastic bag to carry the shirt she had bought because the store bag was so glitzy and she feared it would attract attention. Other women was nearly completely red with fear. I had a car so I carried a few people back to their homes. As I headed up their street, one of the women's two daughters were walking towards us, themselves searching to 'rescue' their mom. I was told not to drive any further, the streets were already blocked and they were preparing to rob the stores. Yes, Salvador is always dangerous but danger has never closed down the city, especially major festivals: Daniela Mercury, Carlinhos Brown, Timbalada all have cancelled their shows. There are two sources of violence: the majority had been caused by the police themselves. They were the ones on the first days of the strike who actually organized riots. They were the ones pointing their guns at store owners, telling them that a riot was coming. They were the ones pointing their guns at citizens on busses, forcing them to leave the busses so that the police could block major roadways. We have the pictures of them. Just this morning, they have done the same thing again, pointing their guns at citizens, forcing them off of busses and blocking major roadways. Now, after 7 days, the real, or should I say "other" criminals are becoming aware of what they can get away with. Taking a cue from the police (many of whom are in partnership with the criminals), the actual waves of robberies are increasing, ATM machines are robbed with impunity, day by day, supermarkets and electronic stores are broken into with impunity. The rate of murders, already bad, has more than doubled. Universities have suspended classes. Today, city and state schools should resume classes...let us see what happens.

Editors don't use words like "pleasant", "truth", "bulls**t", not in the evaluation of "facts" (the five WH's - who, what, etc), editors give weight to perception, especially community perceptions (which engines our lives more than facts), and editors don't give weight to a "personal" experience ("I am still alive") over the facts that apply to a general population. You're post seems so "typically Brazilian apologetic" but I consider myself to be a good writer and I'm not to use "typical". What does that mean?

Your post has some of the same class implication as the idiot who wrote "the popular neighborhoods always are dangerous" as if, in this situation, the areas where 80% of solteropolitanos live is not important to this discussion. You know, "life goes on for us 20%. f**k the rest of them savages." Right? Well, goes on with must minor interruptions. Even the private schools won't open because they are scared their mimado, gorduchos criancas in Pituba will be attacked on their school busses. Just a minor inconvenience. It's one thing for a neighborhood like, let's say Sao Caetano, to have SOME dangerous areas, than for a community to live in a climate of terror. The viciously unjust social and economic climate of Salvador has produced thousands of young and old people in Salvador, excluded and invisible in Salvador's society, living lives of quiet and sometimes loud desperation. Yet, for those of us who KNOW these areas (and this gringo is reasonably sure that you, like most of my well-off friends in Salvador (and Rio) know jack-s**t about these areas, even the majority of these excluded citizens exercise behavior limits in these communities. The danger comes from the extreme elements and in the popular neighborhoods, the extreme stick to their places and in many cases, their place is known and protected by the police. When all constraints are taken off of this element, and they are encouraged to do what they will you cross the line from a neighborhood that has some dangerous areas to terrorism.

No comments. This journalist is crazy.

Adrianerik,

Editors use whatever words they care to use when writing in forums. Are you aware of some "guide to editorial writing in internet forums" of which I am not? This is a forum, not a work of art.

Your inferences are incorrect and your implications are out of line. I know more about Salvador and its inhabitants than you ever will. You are a sanctimonious gringo who thinks that because he has discovered poverty he has the right to preach. In fact, anyone who lives in Salvador knows what you know. You are not special, and you have no special insights.

As you well know, it is the nature of people in Salvador to not take much of anything seriously, as is evidenced by the fivefold increase in murders over the past 10 years. That is a sad fact of life here. Get off your high horse and stop lecturing the rest of us about how the poor neighborhoods of Salvador work. Many of us have worked in them and lived in them. Not only you.

My post has no class "implications." It merely outlines the parameters that those in Salvador and, for the most part Brazil, have constructed for themselves. I am an observer, not the creator of Brazil's lopsided class system and inequality. I did not say "life goes on for us 20%. f**k the rest of them savages." Nor would I ever say or think such a thing.

And finally, don't make assumptions about people when you do not know them. You can criticize what I say, as I have in the case of works of the writer we originally discussed. But you cannot attribute characteristics to me and then criticize them. Why not? Because they simply do not exist. They are figments of your imagination, Perhaps you are, as psychologists like to say, "projecting."

You say "You're [sic] post seems so "typically Brazilian apologetic." Yet earlier you seem to indicate you believe I am a gringo. Apparently you have no idea what I am. But I'm sure you'll continue to fabricate whatever "facts" you think are handy--just as our friend the "investigative reporter" has.

Allow me to point out one more thing.

Max Bono, so-called investigative journalist, holds forth the following as evidence of how bad things are in Salvador at the moment.

"Anyone can rob you and even kill you knowing nothing will happen to him or her."

Tell me how this is different from the week or the year before the police strike. If I recall correctly, something like 5% of murders in Salvador are investigated and this results in convictions in about 2% of total murders. Although I am loathe to say it, only an idiot could ever be convicted of a murder in Salvador.

Max is correct when he says ""Anyone can rob you and even kill you knowing nothing will happen to him or her." But it has nothing to do with a police strike.

'Internet article'? Forum post? So what! You evaluate genres of literature and yes! there are guidelines on how those genres of literature should be evaluated. It doesn't matter where it appears. Fiction has a set of guidelines on which it should be evaluated. You don't check "facts" in fiction. The various genres of non-fiction also have guidelines, be it social commentary, "objective" reporting, etc. That doesn't change just because it appears in electronic format.

Now...

"sanctimonious gringo" - That's funny. I threw out the "gringo" thing because Brazilians like you, like to chew on it. It's like isca. I wanted to see the reaction. I wasn't in the mood to also put that I'm black...that also provokes reactions. Another time. (oops! did I let the cat out the bag?)

"discovered poverty" - It's not about poverty...it's about exclusion. There exists scores of societies poorer than areas of Brazil but....oh why waste my time. After all, you know more than "we" would ever know (not evident in anything you've written...pretty typical stuff).

"Special"? - Here's some gringo sanctimony - there's nothing "special" to be known. You need for there to be something "special", something that can only be known by the "real folks", something that the "others" just can't get. The tragedy of Brazilian injustice is that it's not special and does not require special understanding. Shhh...that's a secret.

"it is the nature of people in Salvador not to take anything seriously".

"Nature?" That's funny. Are we talking about the same city....Salvador da Bahia? In Brazil?

I don't have the time to tackle that crock of s**t. With all of your "know more about Salvador than some sanctimonious gringo" that's your assessment of Salvador society? Tragic.

You? A gringo? No, read my post again. In no way did I mistake you for a gringo. No way! I've seen the pattern time and time again.

As for the article, I'm glad that you mentioned one excerpt from the article and commented on it because it highlights the point between facts and perception. You were the one who used your "I was an editor" to credentialize (is that an english word) your assessment of the article. On the one hand, you wish to give credence that your experience has given you some "tools" or "standards" to judge an article that is supposed to be a subjective evaluation of facts -- and there's a process to this type of evaluation -- and on the other hand you don't want to be held to those standards.

What is the fantasy (as you suggest) of the article? Do you question the facts? Or do you question the interpretation of the facts. Do you question when the author says "it is just like Beirut"? Is that your issue. Are you questioning the hyperbole of interpretation (which he does) or the facts upon which he bases his interpretation (which you also do until your last post)?

I believe his facts are mostly on target. Yes, he does social commentary most of which I've heard by "real Brazilians" (if that's what needed to give credence...which I don't believe). And if we are going to give anecdotal evidence (such as your going to an ATM and you are still alive) to say that the last few days of Salvador are just a continuation of the woes of a 'dangerous city', I'll give my anecdotal experience to say that's what going on in Sao Caetano and Fazenda Grande and Rio Vermelho and other places are a radical departure from the normal accommodations that citizens make to stay alive in Salvador.

Yes, I was here in 2001. Never said that this never happened before.

Adrianerik,

I am reminded again that your posts are based on false assumptions.

You say: "You? A gringo? No, read my post again. In no way did I mistake you for a gringo. No way!" You then criticize me for my Brasilian traits.

Actually, I am a gringo. You assumed incorrectly that I am not. I was born and raised in North America and have lived in Salvador for many years. I suppose that means you need to reformulate your argument so it in some way reflects reality. Therefore I will not bother refuting most of your points, with the exception of those below.

You say about your previous posts: "never said that this has never happened before." Yet in an earlier post you claimed: "Yes, Salvador is always dangerous but danger has never closed down the city." Although it is more than 10 years ago, I recall many parts of the city being closed during the 2001 police strike. You must have been living in your gringo sanctuary at the time.

As for my comment that "it is the nature of people in Salvador not to take anything seriously," I am sure you are aware that Baianos, and many Brasilians, display a curious apathy toward things would spur people to take action in other countries. This is a characteristic that is often discussed inside and outside Brasil. Often the it is discussed along with the concept of "O homem cordial." Obviously it is cultural and obviously this is not the place to discuss it.

Suffice to say that the refusal of the Bahia government up to this point to do anything about the occupancy of its own legislature by illegally striking police is an example of apathy. So is the attitude of the citizens and politicians of Salvador toward crime--allowing it to spiral out of control in the past decade as cities such as Rio and Sao Paulo have made great strides in reducing violent crime in recent years.

What am I questioning Max Bono's articles (there are three posted on Brazzil recently)? The facts. I do not believe that the writer was in the midst of what you have told us in another post that we should refer to as a "wolf pack." (For the rest of us, an "arrastão.") I do not believe the writer conveniently heard death threats. I do not believe the writer has any personal experience with the conditions in Feira de Santana or Ilheus during this strike, as his writing seems to indicate. (For the record I was in both Feira and Salvador on the same day a few days ago and I have not seen what the writer claims to have seen.) It is also highly unlikely that he was ever in Beirut during the "cold war" period he alludes to in one of his articles, although I concede that is more likely than being in Salvador, Ilheus, Itabuna and Feira in the same day. In one of his two articles the writer says:
"lhéus, in the South of Bahia state, Brazil is a ghost city. It never was that busy at night, but now nobody is in the streets. The hot weather and the dust are the only things around. Itabuna is the same. Bars, restaurants, everything is empty. Feira de Santana, same thing." Reporting should be based on events witnessed by the reporter.

If the facts are fraudulent or at least not based on personal observation, I have no reason to expect anything the writer says to be credible. How handy that the writer and his family just happened to be sitting in a McDonalds during the following event:

"I grab my little kid and run with him in my arms just to the bottom end of McDonalds. The wave slowly stops while people still seem to be panicky. I hide my family behind an advertising panel. And then people apparently terrified start asking the same question: What's happening? Welcome to the arrastão (dragnet), a hellish Brazilian experience which has become a common occurrence in Bahia."

By the way, this is the same Max Bono who in 2007 claimed he was a journalist "traveling in Salvador." These days he refers to himself as an "investigative journalist traveling in Brazil." Apparently he hasn't managed to travel very far "in Brazil" in all those years. (Not to mention that the idea of an "investigative journalist" traveling with his wife and young children is a little odd.)

I encourage you to take Max Bono's body of work. The articles he has written in English over the years are accessible through Google. They are not very impressive, and like those written recently about Salvador are seriously flawed.

As for your commentary on writing guidelines, I will simply say that you don't have a clue. Apparently you haven't spent much time on Internet forums lately. And I doubt that you've written books. So once again, get off the soapbox.

In my post above my "cold war" quote re Beirut should have read "old war." My apologies.

For your interest, here is what someone who actually knows something about Beirut "during the old war days" says about Max Bono's comment at http://www.jadaoun.com/

"I have to give a little credit to the journalist Max Bono for referring to Beirut ‘during the old war days’ but it is still a poor comparison and brings about ignorant comments"

Of course, that commentator is well aware that "looks like Beirut" comparisons are a weak cliche. Max Bono is not.

Well then, you have been in Brazil long enough to exhibit the "typical" Brazilian response (OF SOME BRAZILIANS), especially Brazilian apoligists, of questioning the messenger and not giving a thought out response to his message.

You exhibit the "typical" response of SOME Brazilians to go a tirade of personal attacks on a messenger while doing a piss-poor job of affirming or laying out your own points.

Personal anecdotes are the device of college freshmen.

Congratulations on your achievements.

Let's get specific...you are contradicting yourself. It's YOUR suggestion that what is occurring in Salvador is the "normal danger" existent in Salvador. The writer and I say differently because "normal danger" has not shut down the city, or parts of the city, as just happened last night while I was in Sao Caetano. You then leave from your point of "no unusual danger" to mention ANOTHER POLICE STRIKE that shuttered parts of the city.

Duhhhh....your prove the writer's point.

The rest of your writing reveals a lot and how little you know and understand of society.

Your statement about what oppressed people in Bahia would do vis-a-vis "people in other countries" is ridiculous. And yes, that is a bit beyond the discussion on this particular thread but I would be glad to enter into it. As a matter of fact the reactions of a people people dominated by class, dominated by a mal-functioning educational system, dominated by a hierarchial religious system, dominated by racism at the extremes, and colorism in other areas, dominated by an oligarchial economic system that dominates the urban areas and the rural areas...the reactions of SOME SOME SOME Baianos are nearly the same as numerous communities of people throughout the world.

It's not cultural...a belief system of the people. It is the normal reaction of people to the various systems of power that dominates them. As cracks appear in these various systems you then see the true "nature" of the community in their desire to not see their children dead, to sacrifice arduous hours in a dead end job to pay rip-off schools to try to better their life. Where have you been? Are you in THIS Salvador? I can't think of one neighborhood in Salvador that does not have some type of Residents Association, with differing levels of activism. To inform yourself I will suggest two books - MULHERES DO VENTO,MULHERES DO TEMPO, compiled by my buddy Monica Kalile and...(damn it!) I can't think of the name of the second...It is by another friend, Nilo, a professor at UFBA, who does a masterful job outlining Salvador society and the process by which the power of the communities is "pulverizado" or "crushed" by playing class against class, race (color) against (color), etc. I'll find the name for you. YOU need to read it.

You don't know ridiculous you sound.

It's not a subject of Friday night conversation over some bottles of beer with some group of a*****es who have the "answer to everything".

Listen carefully, you can be born and raised in a country and know jack-s**t about your own social environment, instead constructing a life based upon prejudices and emotional responses to social code to protect one's own imagined privileges, particularly of race and class and gender. Complicated even more by those (of us?) who bring more prejudices and emotional responses from other countries and fail to do anything to know what they are and purge them, especially when your prejudices align with that of the country you are in.

And just from your 3 posts I see that this is a problem with you.

You'd better think son about what you really want to say.

There are RULES on critiquing someone's work. Ad hominems are the tools of a lazy brain, mostly used when one doesn't want to show and stand upon their own viewpoints. I have seen it OFTEN on this site for years.

As for me...don't start! I stand upon a very secure foundation of achievements. Which is why I am very selective in these forums. I don't have time to troll them. A perk of that self-assurance is that I don't waste time proving me to anyone!

adrianerik,

You are a caricature of yourself.

Again, you make inferences that you have no right to make. How odd that a few hours ago I was a Brazilian in your eyes, now I am a gringo exhibiting "the ´'typical 'Brazilian response' "

Most of the "personal attacks" in this thread are yours--based on erroneous assumptions and your belief that you know something about me that you ascribe to me. I do not have any of the personal prejudices or privileges you seem to think I do. You do not know my class or race, although you might correctly guess my gender from my "nic" on this forum.

There are no "ad hominems." I am criticizing the professional credibility of the writer of the articles about the state of Bahia at the moment. I happen to believe only an idiot would engage in this type of fraudulent journalism and expect to get away with it.

Your assertion that "Personal anecdotes are the device of college freshmen" is absurd. Personal anecdotes are the basis of almost every conversation. They form the basis of literature. They are clearly at the root of the reporting by Max Bono that you have so staunchly defended. In fact, your posts contain plenty of "personal anecdotes." Oddly I am not a college freshment, yet I constantly employ "personal anecdotes" in conversation. That is because--you guess it--I am a person with personal experiences. My experiences, unlike some I have read recently, are not fabricated.

Clearly there is no room in your world for anyone's opinion but your own. I am, as you say, standing on my own viewpoints. You just don't agree with them, and that is your right. You seem to think that your experiences in Brasil are the only worthwhile ones, and that we should all construct our realities based on your experiences. What's more, you are now informing us that we are flawed in not realizing the cirumstances of the countries in which we were born. What right do you have to criticize anyone you do not know with comments such as: "Listen carefully, you can be born and raised in a country and know jack-s**t about your own social environment, instead constructing a life based upon prejudices and emotional responses to social code to protect one's own imagined privileges, particularly of race and class and gender. Complicated even more by those (of us?) who bring more prejudices and emotional responses from other countries and fail to do anything to know what they are and purge them, especially when your prejudices align with that of the country you are in." (If I understand correctly; your writing is not very clear.)

And when you disagree you assume that I have not clearly thought about what I want to say. In fact, I have. You say: "You'd better think son about what you really want to say." (Again, I think I know what you mean, but your writing is not clear. Are you calling me "son"? Some might think that is pejorative, particularly those of my age.)

Good luck trying to save the world. Ask yourself, however, whether it really needs to be saved by you. I can think of better candidates for the job.

Oh, and congratulations on: "I stand upon a very secure foundation of achievements." Now go puff up your chest in front of someone else. It means nothing to me. Many of us "stand upon a very secure foundation of achievements." You are in no way special, and I doubt that you are the saviour you want us to believe you are.

One more thing. "I can't think of one neighborhood in Salvador that does not have some type of Residents Association." You may be right. I was the president of our residents' association for a year or so, which has since disbanded because in a neighborhood of 5,000 people only a handful ever showed up. That is the apathy of which I speak.

adrianerik,

Clearly you see it as your calling in life to give up your existence in Philly and export your activism to Bahia. This seems to have conferred upon you the (self-granted) right to preach to others about the situation in a country in which you are just as much a gringo as I. In many circles here that would make you a meddling gringo, although now that I know who you are (Google is our friend) I at least have a modicum of respect for what you are doing (as opposed to what you write here).

I am curious, however. What makes your view of Salvador, as a gringo, more valid than mine in your eyes? We come from different places in North America, we have different experiences there and and we may never share the same experiences in Brasil. Yet in some areas we have followed similar professional paths and we have both ended up living in the same Brasilian city. Still you seem convinced that your path is the path of wisdom and right, while that of others is merely a reflection of their inability to think clearly or of "how little you know and understand of society."

YOU challenged my achievements, didn't you?

Since I KNOW how much you DON'T know about me, yet you are so sure of what I've not done, I really should question your condemnation of this other fellow. Shouldn't I?

Brazilian! Gringo! Martian! You are what you do or what you portray. So suffice to say that you gave (and are still giving) typical Brazilian responses of SOME Brazilians ON THIS FORUM. The color of your passport is unimportant. People gravitate to their own kind.

PERSONAL ANECDOTES

Personal anecdotes are like the 12 blind men trying to describe an elephant. The one who thinks elephants are like snakes is not "wrong", is he? He has his opinion. And the one who thinks that an elephant is like a sturdy tree is not "wrong", is he? Just their opinions based upon his personal experience of feeling trunks or legs.

And simply because it is "the basis of all conversations" (as you say), this doesn't change their limitations and clearly doesn't raise them to the level of challenging or representing societal patterns.

(I don't agree that PERSONAL ANECDOTES are the basis of all conversations. There are people who have more mature discussions)

Any literary work worth its weight doesn't orient itself around merely personal experiences of its characters. (maybe some of the new age works like Heart of Darkness). The work would then have no focus. The best literary works revolve around a "premise", which manifests itself in a plot and sub-plots. This gives focus to the personal experiences. Most human beings REACT to the vortex of forces around them, rarely understanding what they are. "It hit me, I hit back". "It roared, I ran". "I went to the ATM, I am alive". Meaningless in the scheme of understanding your societal environment.

And only the freshmen and the more immature, the two-year olds, think that what happened to THEM, the life in their mirror, is the final word on the meaning of life.

MOST personal anecdotes bore me UNLESS an individual begins to sense a pattern or some enlightenment, however miniscule, in the flow of their life. These individuals don't give the endless OPINIONS on people because "once I passed one of them people on the street and I actually said 'hello'. I KNOW them!" Rather, they ask questions, seeking to connect their 'anecdotes' with others, raising everyone to a higher understanding.

Regarding viewpoints - you can infer NOTHING from my posts that mine are everything, others are nothing. Cut and paste your basis for this 'opinion'. I AM a stickler for the process of communications and evaluation and judgement. Because the lack of this has turned individuals against each other and has been used by groups such as COINTELPRO to destroy movements. We all are always learning AND applying what we have learned. As African Americans say "We did the best we could with what we had, and with what we knew and understood at the time!"

So, yes, I am radically against judgement of information based upon attacks on the person. I remember in the university, a student criticized a book during the presentation of a well-known afro-centric scholar. The scholar agreed that the book had problems and asked the student what parts he disagreed with. The student said "Oh, I didn't read it, I don't read books written by the white oppressor." The afro-centric scholar said "then you have no basis or authority to criticize the book and I'd prefer that you don't comment on it until you've read it."

COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS

What you need to ask yourself is why there are community organizations that are very powerful, made up of the same poor citizens, while others simply prefer to scream "apathy". People in Salvador are not "apathetic" - have a lack of passion for what's happening around them. As in many other peoples they assess outlets for their passions that can change things. In his book WRETCHED OF THE EARTH, the pyschologist Frantz Fanon discovered that down-and-out people, in the face of a seemingly invincible armed society turn their "pathos" on one another, imitating the same brutality that affects them all. That's a generalization, of course. Others flee...such as the mass migrations to Sao Paulo and Rio and now, to Salvador and Feira de Santana. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands. This is not a sign of "apathy".

Residents associations have to organize with the same vigor as the evangelists thumping their bibles in the streets. The few people who attend the first meetings have to leave with the sense that they picked up something that they didn't know before. That they are just a little bit more empowered than they were before. In this way you can contrast strong associations like that in Cazajeiras and relatively weak ones, such as in Fazenda Coutos. When you say that people are "apathetic", exactly what were you asking them to be passionate about...more complaining about their misery?

"Calling?" I'm not religious.

Activist? Yes, I am actively a humanist and believe in a certain minimum of human rights that I will practice no matter where I live. It's not an option. Of course, you have to be pragmatic about the social and political and religious climate of your surroundings. I was ostracized by well-off friends in Pituba for befriending their domestica, who they treated like dirt.

They are no longer my friends...she and her husband and two sons still are, I see them at times in Liberdade.

That is activism.

Nor am I a nationalist. I don't see the difference between moving from Philly to New York or New York to Berlin. I was invited to Brazil by certain community groups.

I choose to live here because it is a spot on earth that I like. My friends here don't 'act' Brazilian. That part of their life is superficial: food, music, etc. As human beings the context of their fears and anger and love and jealousy and ambitions and pride and shame is the same as anyone in Philly, New York, South Carolina, Berlin, the Caribbean.

So I approach people based upon what I know to be their "inner motives" and not on their national identity. Of course, all of us, to some degree walk encased in national costumes. But, except maybe for the American extreme right-wing, it is easy to take off these costumes when you make it clear that you'd prefer to interact based upon human ambitions and not argue about whether acaraje is better than hamburgers.

National identification is a ruse, a device put to use by countries, especially the United States, but used by all to put people against another.

Exactly who are these people who criticize the "meddling gringo"? Are they worried that the social programs that they have constructed to eases the suffering of human beings (excuse me, I mean Brazilians) will be compromised because some gringo is meddling?

I have rarely heard that phrase from the folks in Brazil. Except for the sunday beer crowd in my neighborhood but we argue about everything from wearing socks with sandals to Bush to the "fraud" of American football that is carried by hands.

Here's why I encounter little issues: people lead themselves. "Preach" is your word. Brazilians and Baianos are not stupid. They're not sheep. This applies to people anywhere. I support the principles of the Brazilian constitution. But even Brazilians acknowledge that the application of the principles of the constitution is a dream under construction. That's why so many groups have a course in "cidadania" - loosely "civil rights".

In a society that so denies the rights of basic humanity to people, just being "human" and showing concern for another human is considered activist. That applies to the States, it applies here.

Am I really on google? That is interesting. I resist the urge to try it.

adrianerik,

Did I challenge your achievements? I don't think so. However, I may not hold them in the same high regard as you.

I dismiss your claim that "Any literary work worth its weight doesn't orient itself around merely personal experiences of its characters." Obviously not all literary works revolve around the personal experiences of their characters. However, many do--and are among the finest examples of fiction, particularly contemporary literature. I suspect you know that. I see you have attempted to write novels. There are many fine examples of non-fiction that do the same. Almost all literary travel writing, for example. I think I am qualified, after a long and successful career writing and editing (newspapers, magazines, books), to contribute my opinion on literature and writing.

You have a penchant for lecturing about how writing should be structured, and how writers should think. I suggest you free yourself of those bonds.

Your dismissal of personal anecdotes, in my opinion, borders on the absurd. If most personal anecdotes bore you, clearly you need to be hearing them from more interesting people or reading them in more interesting sources. I make no claim that all anecdotes are worthy of your or my attention, but the interesting ones certainly are. (Actually, most definitions of the world "anecdote" classify them as "interesting" or "humorous," so some believe that if it is not interesting, it is not an anecdote.) Nor do I claim that conversation consists only of personal anecdotes. However, our experiences are constantly woven into our discourse, our thoughts and our writing.

You assert that "only the freshmen and the more immature, the two-year olds, think that what happened to THEM, the life in their mirror, is the final word on the meaning of life." Again, a shortsighted opinion. I know people of all ages who hold the belief that what happens to them is "the final word on the meaning of life." In fact, your posts indicate that you dismiss others' opinions in favor of your own. You prefer your mirror to those of others.

COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS

I defer to your wisdom. You no doubt have far more experience in this area than I. I was not the organizer of our association, I inherited the post of president. I suspect the seeds of discontent were sown long before I arrived. However, I stand by my contention that as a people Baianos, and in general Brasilians, are far more apathetic than they should be, and that this apathy has not served them well. This is the case today, it was the case when Brasil was overtaken by dictators in a "bloodless" coup in the '60s and was the case for many decades before then. There are reasons for that apathy; you cite some. Eventually it must, and will change. But it exists. Contrary to what you claim, apathy is not only the lack of passion. It is lack of interest. I may not expect people to be passionate bout their misery, but without serious interest in putting an end to that misery--whether it be poverty, crime or corruption--they will never have a chance to be passionate about a more positive existence.

It seems I was in the midst of replying to your earlier post when the most recent post arrived, hence lack of reference to the latter in my most recent message. (Figure that one out.)

"Calling" does not refer to religion, although it can. I wasn't suggesting you are religious, nor would it matter to me whether you are. I'm not, although I respect others' right to be.

Your explanation of how you ended in Brasil answers a question I was about to ask. Interesting.

"Exactly who are these people who criticize the "meddling gringo"? Are they worried that the social programs that they have constructed to eases the suffering of human beings (excuse me, I mean Brazilians) will be compromised because some gringo is meddling?"--No, I would imagine they are worried that the meddling gringo will highlight the incompetence of those social programs. I am not of the "meddling gringo" school of thought; I was merely pointing out that this exists.

As for the rest, nationalism etc., we'll just have to agree to disagree. Otherwise we'll be going back and forth on this forever. You're clearly an intelligent and interesting person--which does not mean I agree with you

And yes, it's easy to find information about you (or just about anyone these days) through Google, which eventually leads to Facebook and other sites. If you want a bit of privacy, I recommend changing your Facebook settings so a search of your name won't link to your Facebook page.

Okay....we're flowing a bit far from the point of the article and the manner in which a "personal anecdote" was used to defer a more general observation (markets full, ATM machines empty).

Anyhow...

Anecdotes - the key words are "personal" anecdotes and "merely". I would never state that literary works don't revolve around the personal experiences (which I am using interchangeably with anecdotes) of their characters. I don't 'preach' in my books and yes, the energy of the books are the personal lives of the characters. The 'glue' of the books however is that these sequences of personal experiences hurtle through a specific trajectory encompassing a particular premise.

Let me leave that because it's causing a huge tangent. I acknowledge that there exist many...maybe CATCHER IN THE RYE, another by my good friend, Larry Woody called BLACK IN WHITE (yes he uses 'IN') are examples where the flow of experiences are themselves the story. But it's more of a a Lajos Egri discussion, anyway.

You're right...things like travel publications (blogs) rely solely on personal experiences. That is most effective. I just don't consider them literary work but maybe it's semantics.

Yes, I agree. I needed friends with much more interesting experiences in life. That took care of itself, I have less middle class friends and more friends who were born and raised just like me...South Carolina farm boy.

I was taught not to use the word "interesting" but I guess it does the trick if that is the implied definition of anecdote. What makes it interesting?

Anyhow...returning to the point, I called your "going to the supermarket, it was not full, going to the ATM machine, I am still alive" an anecdote used for a more general societal analysis. If it's not the correct word, so be it.

Do I preach about writing? Probably do. I've seen so much bad stuff.There are some great writers in Philly and I sit at their feet anyday to learn from them. Do I preach how to think? Absolutely not! I consider myself to be just the opposite. I hate disciples. I hate situations where people can't reason out their own environment.

Regarding your group: who does NOT want to end poverty or crime or corruption. But in the absence of a vision to do that, in whole or in part, citizens would go crazy being 'wired up' every day as the abuses go from insane to absurd. I sometimes ask the community leaders, "if ALL of your members were in this building right now, ready to do something, what would you have them do?" The answer is always some form of 'venting' - a march, a protest but nothing that resolves a problem. The current actions in the Cazajerias to unite their community associations and plan coordinated actions begins to make it clear that the size of the systemic problem makes it necessary for them to realize another level of power.

well....im all ears, two gringos living up in salvador

and i must say you both are making your points well

no matter what you both say about anecdotes, im immensly enjoying both of your anecdotes about living in salvador...ha

god, you sure dont want to hear mine and joao's....that would be boring except for cabana life....which i think is totaly absent in joao's ( ok joao , that W(ASP) dig was pretty deep..be on guard )

...of course, one person was killed in an asault for money about 3 blocks from me a few seeks ago and a revenge murder took place one block from me in the park , 53 stabbings with the final one in the guys eyeball, a year ago along with an argentine woman killed in by a drunk driver one block away..a crack gang busted a thousand yards away, which would have been unusual ,about a year ago...stuff like that

Boring? Don't say that, asp. It's not the blood and guts stuff that makes something interesting. (Wow! I used that word!). I remember early in the last decade, around 2002, I was easily branded as the gringo because in a crowd I was usually the only one with a digital camera. (things have changed much in Brazil). Once, when leaving a parking lot near Pelourinho I left the camera on top of my car. It fell off and I didn't realize it until I reached my place, near a place called Aeroclube. I remembered placing the camera on top of car in the parking lot and concluded that it would be a waste of time going all the way back to Pelo because after all "This was Salvador...you're never going to get that camera back!" This was spoken to me by Brazilians. However I had nothing to do in the house and those early Canon digital cameras (3MP) cost about $500 at that time. I went back to the parking lot and in my evolving portuguese tried to explain what I was looking for. I acted out clicking a camera and the attendant directed to the office. I figured he didn't understand me so I tried miming my camera clicking act again. He nodded and pointed to the office. I went to the office and the first thing I saw was my camera sitting on the desk. I said that it was mine, turned it on and showed him the pictures on the camera. The manager smiled and I asked who turned it in. He said one of his attendants. I spoke to the attendant and asked why he didn't keep the camera. He lowered his eyes and shook his head vigorously. "Nao, senhor. How can I keep something that doesn't belong to me!" We talked a bit, I eased 50 reais into his hands and walked away before he could give it back.

Another time I bought some thing or the other which cost something like 2 reais which I paid for with a 20 real bill. As I was walking away I passed a group and out of the corners of my eyes perceived one person peeling himself away, calling after me. I was in no mood to be disturbed, so I ignored him and kept walking. He remained behind me saying, in english, "Hey brodder. Hey brodder!" The usual attempt to start a conversation in english, later to ask for something. All of a sudden, I felt the person up on me, from behind. I turned to face him. He held out his hands which were full of 2 real and 5 real bills. "Brodder, (in portuguese) your money was falling out of your pocket. You were walking so fast and I had keep stopping to pick it up." I felt in my pockets where I had put the change for the 20. I only had a 2 reais bill. I reached for the money. He pointed to my pants pockets. "Segure, brodder!" Perhaps I hesitated too long. He didn't. In the time I thought about offering him something, he had already taken long strides back to his friends, all of them laughing at (and probably with) me.

During carnaval, these same guys, all of them bermuda wearing "negros" and "pardos" would be slapped and pushed and insulted if they didn't hop out of the way of a line of passing Policia Militar, and branded as marginais and vagabundas, such as what happened just two days before this ridiculous police strike where a young black woman lost her eye after being punched in the face by a PM (my buddy is now representing her). Cameras caught two patrols of PM beating a man into unconsciousness AFTER they had secured his hands behind his head. The other patrol walked up behind a man, pushed him until he almost fell. He moved out of the PM's way to let them pass. Three of them fell upon him with fists and sticks.

Even that a*****e host on Se Liga Bocao, a staunch defender of the PM, couldn't defend the above three incidents, which to me, are common. I see it whenever I'm in any outdoor event. I've begun to speak english (and play my gringo card) whenever I'm in situations where I might be regarded by the PM as the normal "lixo na rua". Because, lord knows, I might lose my life, but ain't nobody gonna be hitting on me. And I ain't no hero, so I stay outta their way.

Hmmm...is that an anecdote?

adrian, you are absolutly right about my " boring " statement, for sure i was somewhat toungue in cheek

thanks again for personal stories , i admit im fascinated, im fascinated by gringos living in salvador

i have ties to salvador, id rather not go into it now, ive visited there 6 or 7 times...and, i have to admit, its one of those cities that doesnt want me around ( i have tremendous respect for the baiano culture and food)...i mean i know certain cities in this world just give me a vibe that its just not the best city for me...santa fe new mexico is like that for me, just passing through dallas airport i feel a sick feeling...my home town chicago , is not where im suposed to be,

new york is...rio is...recife is.... miami is a place that has a good vibe for me....sao paulo, nao

but, based on my ties there in salvador, i know many things you say about the social situation are true..always amazed by your commitment, adrian, keep up the good work

but, i like what both you gringos are saying...ha, i love to hear personal insights

Adrianerik- my brother, i am an african-american brother in the Philly area (Wilmington, DE). I work with at-risk youth in North Philly and am learning Portuguese now and wanna move to Brasil by 2014. I need all the help I can get in the way of information, contacts, a brother to school me on what to do, not to do, where to go, etc. Please email me at: murdoch77@yahoo.com . i need to know how you learned portuguese and how long it took as well and if the language schools (like escola idioma) are worth it. thanks. this post is for anyone else who can help me too. thanks a lot.