Comments for The Smartest Thing China Could Do Right Now: Invest US$ 200 Billion in Brazil - Part 3 at http://www.brazzil.com , comment 1 to 251 out of 20 comments http://www.brazzil.com Sun, 15 Sep 2013 12:07:17 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-40581 [b] Global warming to 'change face of Brazilian farming'[/b] Catarina Chagas 27 August 2008 | EN | ES Flickr/fulviobpm [RIO DE JANEIRO] Brazil's agriculture could be severely affected by climate change, with soya hardest hit by rising temperatures, report Brazilian scientists. They based their projections on climate models developed by the UK Met Office's Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research. The researchers considered two possible scenarios for the future: an optimistic one, with a 1.4–3.8 degrees Celsius temperature rise by 2100, and a pessimistic one, with a rise from 2–5.4 degrees Celsius. They modelled the impact of such temperatures on agricultural land and their effect on Brazil's nine most important crops — cotton, rice, coffee, sugar cane, beans, sunflower, cassava, maize and soya. Under the most optimistic scenario, by 2020, six of Brazil's food crops — rice, coffee, beans, cassava, maize and soya — could have dropped in value by a total of 6.7 billion Brazilian reals (US$4 billion). The rise in temperature will increase the loss of water through evaporation from soil and plant transpiration, reducing crop-growing areas particularly in northeast Brazil. Soya will be the most threatened, with land suitable for soya cultivation predicted to drop by about 20 per cent by 2020 and 40 per cent by 2070, even under the optimistic scenario. But sugar cane cultivation could double in a few decades because of the crops' ability to adapt to higher temperatures and increases in carbon dioxide. "Sugar cane plantations will benefit with future scenarios, increasing ethanol production. However, essential crops for the internal market and population nutrition will suffer, bringing a high social cost," Hilton Silveira Pinto, one of the report's authors and a senior researcher at the State University of Campinas (Unicamp), told SciDev.Net. He adds that the most pessimistic scenario will only be realised if there are no efforts to mitigate climate change and minimise the impact of rising temperatures by modifying production techniques. Suggestions to minimise impacts include better use of soil by alternating grazing and planting land, encouraging the production of crop varieties adapted to drought and genetic improvement of plants. The report was released this month (11 August) by the Unicamp, the Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation, and the Center for Weather Prediction and Climate Studies. The researchers will now analyse the impact of global warming on other crops and livestock, and social impacts from the change in agriculture. A new report will be released in 2009. - Tom Lloyds Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:45:09 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-40482 [b]If someone knows others having some money in their pockets, it is understandable this persons will find some reasons to get the money out of their pocket. The logic which Ricardo used is a shame! It sounds like this. If the Chinese is fooled by the American, what is wrong if the Chinese is fooled by the Brazilian again? Ricardo warns the Chinese not having enough food because of shortage of water, and tells the Chinese to lend Brazil money in exchange of food because Brazil had too much food. Does he have some common sense? On global warming, countries near the equator are going into big trouble on agriculture. Brazil is one of them. Brazil is worrying whether it has enough food. Here are the links. http://www.wharton.universia.n...ge=english http://www.idrc.ca/en/ev-5544-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html http://news.mongabay.com/2006/...nside.html Ricardo is writing an empty check to the Chinese and is fooling the Chinese.[/b] - Tom Lloyds Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:07:49 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31525 Nick wrote: “Nobody has the answer to all human problems of existence or to geopolitical policies” My economic development plan for Brazil in partnership with China it does not involve the area of human development in Brazil, because that area of the economic development plan has to be funded by the Brazilian government itself. My plan is an investment plan that it is a sound investment venture for both parties in turn it will be a win, win option for both countries - China and Brazil As you said: “Nobody has the answer to all human problems of existence” But some countries did a better job than others such as the Scandinavian countries including Sweden. But these countries have small populations and their success can’t be replicated in countries with populations of 200 million such as Brazil or China with 1.3 billion people. Countries such Brazil, China and India with their large populations and widespread poverty – all these countries can do is try to do their best with the limited resources that are available and hope that will help as many people as possible from their current state of complete poverty. China has been doing an outstanding job for quite a while in that area and they have been able to lift millions and millions of people out of poverty, more than any country in recent years. Today China has a middle class almost as large as the US middle class and that alone has been an outstanding achievement. Anyone who criticizes China for not doing enough to lift even more people out of poverty – he is a complete idiot since he does not understand the magnitude and scope of such a job in China. For all practical purposes China is doing better than it is possible when you consider all the circumstances and changes that are going on. The Brazilians have a lot to learn from the Chinese in that area – and contrast that what has been happening in the United States where the middle class is under constant attack and sinking like the Titanic. I am aware of the problems facing China involving its extremely large population – I am a realist and I am hoping that the Chinese government does not lose control of its population in the coming years regarding its income distribution – even though China has about 200 million people who could be considered middle class – the country still has over 1 billion people living in poverty – that mean that China has a long way to go to build a middle class for the majority of its citizens. It will not be easy but progress is spreading throughout China and that will help to continue lifting many more boats in that country in the coming decades. Brazil has been doing very well with its economy, but Brazil has to do a lot better job educating its population and preparing them for the dynamic world of the 21st Century. . - Ricardo Amaral Wed, 31 Oct 2007 03:40:20 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31523 Nick wrote: “I hope that Ricardo gets a job helping his country soon. Nobody has the answer to all human problems of existence or to geopolitical policies but Ricardo is a hard worker and hopefully somebody helps him do productive things for his country.” Thank you for your vote of confidence regarding my work. It’s true these articles required a lot of hours of research and hard work. All my articles all these ideas that I write about including this 4-part series of articles are my own ideas and nobody else. I am the only person that I know that have been suggesting that Brazil adopts the euro – I started writing about that in 1998, and about two years ago I changed my mind because of all the economic trends affecting the global economy in the last 4 to 5 years. Today I have no doubt that Brazil should adopt the new Asian currency that will come online in the next few years. Take a few years of advance preparation for Brazil to be in the ground floor when they launch that new Asian currency. Some wise guy in Brazil (from some private equity firm, hedge fund, or some other kind of investment firm) might think that my plan makes sense and they might approach the Chinese or countries in the Gulf states of the Middle East with something similar to my plan. If I were the Chinese or these Arab countries I would not go for unless they want to be taken for a ride just like the guys from Wall Street – first these type of people thinks only on how much fees they would be able to get out of the project to line up their pockets – and they would do foolish things because of their unlimited amount of greed – such as the sub-prime scandal and many more… If the Chinese likes my ideas and my plan they should keep in mind the plan will be better implemented based on the way that I described on this 4-part series. I would love to be involved with such a plan and help Brazil move into the future and achieve its goal of prosperity for the Brazilian people and also take a seat at the table with the countries that are becoming the new leaders of the world in this new century. I feel like I have been preparing myself my entire life to be involved with such a major project. Since I got interested in economics and decided to study it many years ago and in the following years since that time – I always had on the back of my mind the economic development of Brazil and what could be done to achieve Brazil’s potential in that area. That’s why I have been writing about Brazil adopting a new currency since 1998 and I developed the enclosed plan that I described on this 4-part series – basically these are the result of many years of thinking about these problems and possible solutions. This is the result of many years of a lot of research and also of practical experience in many fields, including the investment area and also international trade. . - Ricardo Amaral Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:48:28 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31503 I hope that Ricardo gets a job helping his country soon. Nobody has the answer to all human problems of existence or to geopolitical policies but Ricardo is a hard worker and hopefully somebody helps him do productive things for his country. - Nick Tue, 30 Oct 2007 03:41:00 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31223 [quote]... written by e harmony, 2007-10-21 04:08:14 I don't have to go to Brazil to grasp what achieved characteristic are.[/quote] How does it feel to be absolutely nuts? - bo Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:38:24 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31199 [quote]Tijuana written by Shelly, 2007-10-21 00:13:57 Eharmony, I have seen a documentary about the Maquiladoras in Tijuana. Take a look, I think you will like it. I am not sure if they have an English version, it is in Spanish, but I think you will get it. I had the pleasure to meet the director, Vicky Funari, and became involved with the project. I have met Carmen, she still alive, but suffers from several illnesses. http://www.maquilapolis.com/project_eng.htm [/quote] Naw, I haven't seen this documentary. I saw the Brazilian documentary "Warrior of Light" not to long ago. Yvonne Bezerra de Mello is a special and courageous woman - where she gets her strength I have no idea. Hey! :) She was a foxy woman in her younger years too. Her daughter is also very attractive (though less "exotic" looking than her mother) and that young woman is very refined. I'll see if I can check out that doc your talking about. - e harmony Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:33:34 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31198 [quote]eharmony written by Shelly, 2007-10-21 00:02:45 3)In at least one (probably more than one) earlier post I noted that the Black-American community is in general a high consumer category of people, I stated that in a reflective question I raised, or pondering I had, as to what the true nature of poverty to violence link really is, at least as a simple causative force (note: I have no definitive conclusion). It is good that you are trying to understand the underpinning of poverty, maybe if more people were able to understand it, they would ACT. I am not suggesting anything, do whatever you conscious tells you. The nature of violence and poverty in the States and Brazil are somewhat similar. However, in Brazil it is a whole different ball game, we have many elements to consider. The Brazilian political system and society in general, has nuances that are difficult for a foreigner to fully grasp. Some of our friends here understand what makes our society tick a certain way, because they live or have lived in Brasil. Bo, AES can give you an American perspective on the issue. I can definitely say that not all poor people are violent, and that not all violence derives from poor people. Having said that, I can give you a glimpses of how the violence dictates our daily (not mine as I live here, but when I visit my country this also applies to my daily activities) life. The US isn't paradise, utopia doesn't really exist, but I can say that a black person has a lot more chances in this country than in mine. My country denies education to millions of kids, there are countless children working at the stop-sign in Rio ( AES, please tell her how it is in Rio), slums are increasing at an alarming rate. We have children working on sugar cane fields, and the problems just goes on and on. Being poor in any country is difficult, but I bet my money that being in poor in Brazil is far, far worse than here. [b]Bolsa familia and other so called social programs does nothing to break the cycle of poverty in Brazil.[/b][/quote] I have no problem with Bolsa familia, and I'm not sure how anyone decrying the lack of adequate nutritional consumption by the Brazilian poor can be against Federally funded social programs. Asking what is the Brazilian Federal Government doing to create jobs in Brazil seems equally odd to me when the tone of some of your posts seems to suggest you are a proponent of [i]laissez-faire[/i] economics. I suppose you'll say by reducing bureaucracy. I don't doubt reduction of bureaucracy will help, but I'm not so sure that is the only answer or problem. One sociologist who traveled throughout Latin America conducting research, came up with this idea of what he called the "culture of poverty" I believe. I would have to go back into my class sociology book from several semesters ago to dig through it to find his name (which would probably take a long time itself). But his basic proposition as I remember it, was that much of Latin American poverty continues to be perpetuated by a "culture of poverty" wherein the poor (I think he was speaking of urban poor here) relied more upon blaming the government for their woes rather than gathering their resources to access vehicles such as education to help move them out of poverty. According to him many people in Favelas throughout Latin America will purchases electronic items and other non-necessities and then say they have no money to buy pencils for their kids for school. The truthfulness to this claim I can not tell you, but apparently is one man's assertion. I would tend to figure the truth is somewhere in the middle. Regardless of where the truth is, proper education is needed for all kids in any nation, in today's global information tech economy, so of course I would hope Brazil would begin to do a better job educating it's youth (and adults). The good thing is that the Brazilian economy is doing better than what is once was. The Chinese might offer a good model as an ethnic group in some ways, as they are regarded supposedly as the greatest entrepreneurs the world has ever known. The economy by Chinese outside of China is supposedly just massive, and inside China they supposedly are building at a rate (with engineering triumphs) similar to that of the early days of the United States with the great engineer feets of the building of New Orleans. - e harmony Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:27:34 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31196 an example of emotive language from you:In general Americans (USA) might tend to regard Brazilians as [u][b]extremely vain[/b][/u] people. [b]Then again, Rio is the defining culture of Brazil for most the world[/b] This is your perception, I'm not even going to say that this is an American thinking, because this country has over 300 million people. I will leave the exaggeration to you. You seem to be the expert of the subject.Never in Europe I felt that the British, the Spaniards, the French or the Italians that I dealt with, thought Rio as the "defining" culture. People just know a little bit more about Rio because of our Carnival. Well, this shows how much you need to learn. You are once again generalizing and overrating your claims. Are you America's spokesperson? [b]Take homeless people in L.A., I haven't been to L.A. or Rio but my common f*ckin sense tells me homeless people in L.A. are lower on the consumer scale than Rio's middle-class.[/b] Woow, what a knowledge! How long did it take for you to figure that one out! :o You used the word vain twice on your response, are you jealous? Yes, most Brazilian women are beautiful, take care of their bodies and love good the things in life. However, you ask the married guys here about Brazilian women in their homes. We are family oriented, loving, caring and are fantastic good LOVERS. - Shelly Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:01:21 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31192 [quote]2)But I was not talking about the large nation state of the United States in contrast to Latin American an European middle-class, I was talking about me. Two different things. Yes you were talking about you, and comparing YOUR life style with a HUGE CONTINENT. Kind of a stupid comparison, don't you think? And overrated.[/quote] I simply stated the Latin American middle-class consumes more than me. The middle-class is one rough category of people kind of like the rich or poor are or like the homeless are. There is no stupid comparison then, when I basically own nothing. What your big problem with this is I have no idea, there is not much overly romantic or glamorous about my place in life or those like me. Take homeless people in L.A., I haven't been to L.A. or Rio but my common f*ckin sense tells me homeless people in L.A. are lower on the consumer scale than Rio's middle-class. (generally speaking, I'm not talking about mentally ill rich people living on the streets). - e harmony Sun, 21 Oct 2007 04:39:09 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31191 [quote]eharmony written by Shelly, 2007-10-21 00:02:45 1)You're right my life is different than Brazilian middle-class, they own more sh*t than me Have you been there? Again, you are making assumptions, it is up to you if you want to live "Gandhi" style, if people own cell phones or a TV it doesn't make them materialists. Generally speaking, from my experience, Brazilians will keep what they have until it breaks. It costs a lot of money to buy electronic products and with the interest rates as high as 12%, it is highly unlikely that people in Brazil are wasters.[/quote] I don't have to go to Brazil to grasp what [b]achieved characteristic[b] are. By and large they are the same through out the world be they in Dubai, Mexico, Brazil or the United States. What differs with the categories of "middle-class" (fulling achieved characteristics) between those countries or any countries, is the level of material lifestyle (and other variables I'm sure) between them. But one can not be homeless in the United States or in Dubai and constitute the [b]achieved characteristics[/b] of [b]middle-class[/b] in Brazil or Mexico. So, the difference comes in U.S. middle-class lifestyle or greater consumerism in comparison to Brazilian middle-class. I mean one does not have to go to Brazil to know Brazil is the second largest consumer of cocaine in the world behind the United States. One does not have to go to Brazil to pretty much reckon Rio de Janeiro has more people spending money on breast implants (per capita) than Cleveland, Ohio. And one does not need to go to Brazil to know that anyone who has achieved Brazilian middle-class status has had to meet a certain number of material and consumerist variables. You are throwing a lot of emotive language in here like referring to my material level as "Gandhi" style. First and foremost my materialism is above that of Gandhi's when he went on his holy crusade. My materialism is above any number of Buddhist, Hindu, or Christian monks. My material consumption and lifestyle is above any rural Ethiopian engaged in subsistence farming. My materialism is above any blind and begging Mexican on a Tijuana street or one of the families there struggling in abject poverty. I'm blessed (me personally, not me as an "American" or "Greek" or an "Iranian" or "Brazilian") a hundred fold that I'm not one of the homeless kids in Rio. How the h*ll some people make it in this world I will never know. But it still remains the middle-class in Latin America consumes more than me, they would have to to be middle-class, at least generally speaking. With regards to what you claim does not imply being materialistic, I may agree or may disagree, it all depends on the context in which one wants to use that word. There is nothing wrong with having a cellphone or any other piece of technology one wants. In fact cellphones can be a very practical thing to own. Many poor people in Latin America have taken to using cellphones - my source on this is from an economist and author who not only specializes on Latin America but has lived throughout Latin America, and supposedly advises a number of gringo companies that do business in Latin America. I read the book a year or more ago but I can dig up the source if you want, but I'll have to dig through some paper work. Anyways, my point is I have no problem with material items, I could have a cellphone if I wanted one, I've just decided not to own one at this point and time. This has nothing to do with being "Gandhi." Are Brazilians - cultural wise or as social values go - materialistic? H*ll, I don't know. I'll leave that one for the sociologists. It could be no Brazilians are per se, or it could be only a small minority are, or perhaps placed against the world *averages* (and not just high income nations like Japan and the U.S.) the cultural traits or social values of mainstream Brazilian society might be more materialistic or [u]vain[/u] than many or most societies in the world? In general Americans (USA) might tend to regard Brazilians as [u]extremely vain[/u] people. But how much of that is just to do with an Americans perception stemming from their own cultural mores? Then again, Rio is the defining culture of Brazil for most the world kind of like New York or L.A. is for the United States (I doubt most Brazilian I.D. the U.S. with Flint, Michigan or Milwaukee, let alone ever heard of them). Anyways... I'm almost forgetting what is was we were disagreeing so much about. - e harmony Sun, 21 Oct 2007 04:08:14 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31183 Eharmony, I have seen a documentary about the Maquiladoras in Tijuana. Take a look, I think you will like it. I am not sure if they have an English version, it is in Spanish, but I think you will get it. I had the pleasure to meet the director, Vicky Funari, and became involved with the project. I have met Carmen, she still alive, but suffers from several illnesses. http://www.maquilapolis.com/project_eng.htm - Shelly Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:13:57 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31182 1)You're right my life is different than Brazilian middle-class, they own more sh*t than me Have you been there? Again, you are making assumptions, it is up to you if you want to live "Gandhi" style, if people own cell phones or a TV it doesn't make them materialists. Generally speaking, from my experience, Brazilians will keep what they have until it breaks. It costs a lot of money to buy electronic products and with the interest rates as high as 12%, it is highly unlikely that people in Brazil are wasters. 2)But I was not talking about the large nation state of the United States in contrast to Latin American an European middle-class, I was talking about me. Two different things. Yes you were talking about you, and comparing YOUR life style with a HUGE CONTINENT. Kind of a stupid comparison, don't you think? And overrated. 3)In at least one (probably more than one) earlier post I noted that the Black-American community is in general a high consumer category of people, I stated that in a reflective question I raised, or pondering I had, as to what the true nature of poverty to violence link really is, at least as a simple causative force (note: I have no definitive conclusion). It is good that you are trying to understand the underpinning of poverty, maybe if more people were able to understand it, they would ACT. I am not suggesting anything, do whatever you conscious tells you. The nature of violence and poverty in the States and Brazil are somewhat similar. However, in Brazil it is a whole different ball game, we have many elements to consider. The Brazilian political system and society in general, has nuances that are difficult for a foreigner to fully grasp. Some of our friends here understand what makes our society tick a certain way, because they live or have lived in Brasil. Bo, AES can give you an American perspective on the issue. I can definitely say that not all poor people are violent, and that not all violence derives from poor people. Having said that, I can give you a glimpses of how the violence dictates our daily (not mine as I live here, but when I visit my country this also applies to my daily activities) life. The US isn't paradise, utopia doesn't really exist, but I can say that a black person has a lot more chances in this country than in mine. My country denies education to millions of kids, there are countless children working at the stop-sign in Rio ( AES, please tell her how it is in Rio), slums are increasing at an alarming rate. We have children working on sugar cane fields, and the problems just goes on and on. Being poor in any country is difficult, but I bet my money that being in poor in Brazil is far, far worse than here. Bolsa familia and other so called social programs does nothing to break the cycle of poverty in Brazil. - Shelly Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:02:45 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31179 [quote]eharmony written by Shelly, 2007-10-20 14:23:59 Your comment: I stated I consume less than the Brazilian middle-class your rebuttal about the numerical size of the Brazilian middle-class is neither here nor there regarding my consumption in comparison to theirs. [b]I believe your comparison is wrong. Your life is different from the lives of the people in Brazil, even tough you are considering the middle-class Brazilian.[/b] You mentioned Latin America, not Brazil, " I utilize public transportation and have a consumption level below most Europeans and probably middle-class Latin Americans. " I am sure you are aware of the size of the continent, and you are comparing yourself with the lives of thousands of people. Also, I will take my sister's life and compare with what you have said. I think you two are about the same age, anyway, she also takes the public transportation to go to her university. Traffic is horrible and it takes longer to drive than to take the bus or metro. She lives with my parents, therefore she doesn't spend a lot of money or resources. People in Brazil, even the middle class will not spend as much as the average American, you can look at the numbers on the net, and you will find out that individually, Americans have greater purchase power when comparing to the average Brazilian, thus consuming more. It is a well known phenomena that our society ( I live here) IS the "throw-away" one. The level of "disposables" here even reflects on the interpersonal relationships. Have you heard of the term "serial-monogamy"? Only used in the US. I have never seen a person belonging to the middle class in Brazil waste as much as Americans. [u]I can give an opinion because I have lived in both countries. Unless you visit and deal with a family there, you won't be able to make this assumption.[/u][/quote] You're right my life is different than Brazilian middle-class, they own more sh*t than me. And you are correct, I stated Latin American middle-class and not just Brazilian middle class. In at least one (probably more than one) earlier post I noted that the Black-American community is in general a [b]high consumer[/b] category of people, I stated that in a reflective question I raised, or pondering I had, as to what the true nature of poverty to violence link really is, at least as a simple causative force (note: I have no definitive conclusion). But with life being as multilayered and complicated as it is, even the true gradient of the socio-economic scale as it concerns each individual Black-American's participation as a consumer in the U.S. market is not so simple as being a 1 or 2 bedroom renter, with ownership of microwave, video games, and frequent buyer of name brand sneakers - graduating up the scale to professionals in law, medicine, and software engineers who live in posh residences and travel when and where they will. There are many 20 to 40 year old Black-Americans who own [i]nada[/i] save for a few articles of clothing and their level of consumerism is pretty meager. Now, I'm not attempting to suggest there are not other races of poor in the U.S., but I know what is pretty pronounced in a particular demographic concerning my own category range of race, age, and sex. With regard to what I placed of yours in underlined, what you are doing is arguing cultural attributes, social norms, or values as they differ between the United States and Latin American nations or the United States verse Brazil. I have no objection to the proposition that the United States is the worlds largest consumers and consumes an amazingly unequal share of the earth's resources. But I was not talking about the large nation state of the United States in contrast to Latin American an European middle-class, I was talking about [b]me[/b]. Two different things. My proposition was logical because it was based off my personal knowledge of myself and modern global consumerism (again, we have more overweight people on earth now than skinny - that includes obesity in Mexico, Brazil, Europe and elsewhere minus most of the African continent [that's not to say most Brazilians or Latin Americans are obese, but the medical problem has spread to those regions]) and as it relates to [b]ascribed characteristics[/b] (demographics) but more importantly and most especially to [b][u]achieved characteristics[/u][/b] (socio-economics). Achieved characteristics are [i]individual accomplishments or characteristics[/i] and can not be defined to an entire demographic of people or to an entire nation state. Achieved characteristics are such things as: Income; Educational Level; Marital Status; Place of Residence; Job Status; Type of Work. Just because there are Americans (USA) that are married doesn't mean I am. Just because my uncle is building a house doesn't mean I own a house. Et cetera, et cetera. - e harmony Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:27:19 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31162 Shelly, I'm sure you recycle and in abundance, and that is a noble thing, just like all your years spent pursuing a "proper" education as it is called. You're work to help make the earth a more healthy and sustainable place is also noble thing. But you are far off on understanding me, I recycle but I honestly recycle little I'm certainly not a poster child for recycling, other things I prefer not to get into about myself. You said:And I can almost gaurrantee you my consumption pattern is far below yours and Shelly's (note: ecological footprints counts travel and air travel), I utilize public transportation and have a consumption level below most Europeans and probably middle-class Latin Americans. This sort of comment made me point out to you that you cannot make this sort of assumption. I commend you for trying to be more conservative, but as I mentioned to you, I have lived in Europe and South America, countries well know for their excellent public transportation system. Your comment: I stated I consume less than the Brazilian middle-class your rebuttal about the numerical size of the Brazilian middle-class is neither here nor there regarding my consumption in comparison to theirs. I believe your comparison is wrong. Your life is different from the lives of the people in Brazil, even tough you are considering the middle-class Brazilian. You mentioned Latin America, not Brazil, "[b] I utilize public transportation and have a consumption level below most Europeans and probably middle-class Latin Americans[/b]. " I am sure you are aware of the size of the continent, and you are comparing yourself with the lives of thousands of people. Also, I will take my sister's life and compare with what you have said. I think you two are about the same age, anyway, she also takes the public transportation to go to her university. Traffic is horrible and it takes longer to drive than to take the bus or metro. She lives with my parents, therefore she doesn't spend a lot of money or resources. People in Brazil, even the middle class will not spend as much as the average American, you can look at the numbers on the net, and you will find out that individually, Americans have greater purchase power when comparing to the average Brazilian, thus consuming more. It is a well known phenomena that our society ( I live here) [b]IS [/b]the "throw-away" one. The level of "disposables" here even reflects on the interpersonal relationships. Have you heard of the term "serial-monogamy"? Only used in the US. I have never seen a person belonging to the middle class in Brazil waste as much as Americans. I can give an opinion because I have lived in both countries. Unless you visit and deal with a family there, you won't be able to make this assumption. - Shelly Sat, 20 Oct 2007 14:23:59 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31151 [quote]Eharmony written by Shelly, 2007-10-19 09:15:20 Most people cycle in the Netherlands, most people use the bus in Rio/Sao Paulo and other states, most people use trains, buses, tube in England. In France it dependents whether you are in a village or close to a city, but cycling in small towns are very common. In Spain, public transportation is fantastic you can pretty much travel anywhere by taking the train. You see, you would not be able to do this here, one the geography of the country makes it difficult, two your public transportation system sucks! I lived in New York and I used to love the fact that I could take the metro/train everywhere and didn't have a car there. I wasn't going to brag about this, but since you think that you recycle and consume less than I do, I am going to ask you a simple question. Where do you do your grocery shopping? I do mine at Whole Foods, we only buy in this household recycled toilet paper-Forest Green does a great brand, eco-friendly dishwasher powder, etc. Do you have any idea how much it costs to buy these products? I will tell you that my weekly grocery bill it is probably more than yours, the reality is that environmentally friendly products are not cheap and most Americans cannot afford paying $20 for a packet of free range, organic fed chicken.[/quote] Shelly, I'm sure you recycle and in abundance, and that is a noble thing, just like all your years spent pursuing a "proper" education as it is called. You're work to help make the earth a more healthy and sustainable place is also noble thing. But you are [b]far[/b] off on understanding me, I recycle but I honestly recycle little I'm certainly not a poster child for recycling, other things I prefer not to get into about myself. I will tell you that I live not unlike to many young men of my rough age group and racial category within my city or even my neighborhood - most black, male, Baby Boomers have done markedly better than the young black males of my generation (at least in my city). I have more than one friend doing 30 or better years in prison for homicide or attempted homicide and just recently found out a few days ago that another childhood friend just got sentenced, I don't know how much, but I heard he was facing 10 to 20 years, but understand he already had several felonies behind him including at least one on the same charge. With every race and both genders [i]combined[/i], my city (@ least 500,000 in pop. size) only has 18% of it's population age 25 and older holding a bachelors degree or better. When you get down to certain racial categories it is even more meager, then if you break it down to black males specifically in the city, it is even more meager than that. So, when I obtain a bachelors degree, it will be fantastically un-American (USA) for my cities culture (or even for the U.S. as a whole, since 70% of Americans 25 and older don't have a bachelors or better), but it will not mean I will then earn an attractive salary or even be attractive to employers, but it will mean I will satisfy a very untrue image that many Americans (USA) and non-American perpetuate about the United States. - e harmony Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:55:09 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31150 [quote]Eharmony written by Shelly, 2007-10-19 09:15:20 I don't even have a wireless phone - h*ll there are people in the Brazilian favelas with wireless phones. So, unless European and Latin American middle classes are wearing the same pants, underwear, and shirt everyday and only eating gruel about once a day it is fairly safe to say that on average they are greater consumers than myself. [b]You really need to get a grip and a touch of REALITY. How many "middle class" Brazilians do you think there are in Brazil ? And how many poor? Before you babble something out of your textbook, if you want to comment about the Brazilian reality, I advise you to do a small research first. Since Brazil has a majority of people who cannot afford basic food for everyday living[/b], as Joao already mentioned, cell phones aren't a priority. Maybe you are mixing up the drug dealers-they have several cell phones with the poor. Do you know how much it cost to finance a cell phone in Brazil? Again, you should look at our 12 month interest rate and see that your assumption is highly unlikely to be the reality of most people. Most poor kids are using the same shoes for over a year, not because of idealistic life style, but because of economic necessity.The Dutch, the English, and the French in general-I used to go and drive into LeMans 24 hour race every June, are frugal people. Don't forget that the environmental conservation movement BEGAN in Europe, it actually if you look into the history of the environmental movement, you will find out that it began during the Enlightenment.[/quote] Shelly, you're the one doing the babbling. I stated I consume less than the Brazilian [b]middle-class[/b] your rebuttal about the numerical size of the Brazilian middle-class is neither here nor there regarding my consumption in comparison to theirs. In fact your response reminds me of my numerous encounters with people that came from out of well-to-do suburbs of New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles. Immediately upon hearing I'm from the particular mid-size city I'm from they boast they hail from large, ultra-violent cities, where only the strong survive and action is 24 - 7. [smirk] Just because someone comes from a well-to-do suburb, sharing the same metropolitan with other poor and violence concentrated suburbs, or the city proper, doesn't mean they came up around thugism. Likewise, just because someone comes from Brazil or Mexico doesn't de facto mean they have descent from material or intellectual poverty. Just because someone comes from the United States doesn't mean they have descent from material or intellectual wealth let alone [i]spiritual or moral wealth[/i]. Now, I know from countless years of interaction with Americans (USA) that large numbers of them think that just about anyone living in Latin America is illiterate and lucky to have a cup of rice... the irony of this - and you have to love irony - is that some of these people are functionally illiterate themselves, poor, and their idea of fine visual art is the Jerry Springer show and complicated literature the daily newspaper. However, I know for a fact there are finely educated people that exist in Latin America and some, if they come from well-to-do back grounds, are not a surprise if they can speak several languages. My father came up in some pretty hardcore poverty, for luxury him and his siblings within his age range, use to stir sugar into water. As a kid he went to school in the winters with a spring jacket (Midwest winters). He rarely could afford new shoes so he had to stuff cardboard into the bottom of his shoes when holes wore through them. He went hungry countless times in his youth, and his first consistent decent meals came when joined the U.S. Army. Spare me your bullsh*t as to how birthed middle-class or birthed rich Brazilians have some monopoly of knowledge on hunger or material suffering by virtue they have citizenship in Brazil. You can find people suffering or struggling every where in the world. And even the rich or middle-classes have their own particular struggles. And if you're rich and a diabetic missing toes, or blind, or can no longer gain an erection... well h*ll money can't always buy happiness, and in such a case I'm happy to be where I'm at in life. Continued in post below.... - e harmony Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:53:17 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31149 [quote]I visited Toronto as a child, I recall it as a nice, clean, friendly, very pedestrian respectful city, other than that it seemed just like the United States to me.[/quote] Totally agree with you. No dipute whatsoever. [quote]Crossing the boarder into Mexico, into the very tourist marketed Tijuana, was much different. Only the strong survive in Tijuana. There is much misery and poverty there. The cab ride, however, was quite thrilling. Those f*ckers drive crazy over there, they make New Yorkers look like orthodox drivers, and let me tell ya... that is no small feet.[/quote] No disagreement on this issue either.Except that your INS officers were a bit touchy about a "foreigner" returning to San Diego after spending a few hours in Tijuana.One good thing about the Mexicans in Tijuana is that they understand Portuguese and I appreciated it. [quote]San Diego is a much more beautiful than Dubai, but Dubai is as clean as my memory of Toronto and it seemed to me to be twice as orderly and Dubai is waaaaaaaay more safe than most cities I've been to in the United States.[/quote] Absoutely, no disagreement. I have some nice friends in San Diego. It is easier to drive there and shop around.No complaints. [quote] In Dubai almost every other car I saw driven was an expensive BMW or Mercedes (they didn't seem to care for American made cars). I don't really recall Dubai being inexpensive, I remember always finding it frustrating to stretch my E-3 paycheck there. [/quote] Dubai and the entire U.A.R are under the heavy influence of the Brits and the Americans.No worries there. [quote]I wash my clothes, and I wash myself, I'm slightly (but not entirely) a cleanliness freak. As a consumer I have cologne and aftershave I also have "StaphAseptic" which I use on cuts and abrasions from boxing or martial arts - it protects against MRSA (a drug resistant Staph killing more people in the U.S. than HIV). [/quote] I am not a cleanliness freak either,but I take a shower everyday and change clothes. So no problem on that fron either. [quote]Wireless phones include cellphones. And I'm not Mother Teresa, I'm more like Jimmy Hoffa in character if any thing, and I'm not even like Hoffa really either, I'm my own animal but if anything I need "saving" from the Brazilians not the other way around. Some angelic Brazilian chick in a favela (if they exist) who may or may not be illiterate could teach me a positive and or wise thing or two I'm sure. [/quote] Angelic Brazilian chick in a favela doesnt exist. So you better come down to the earth and look for some nice Brazilian LADIES.Take my advice or leave it. - João da Silva Fri, 19 Oct 2007 21:18:07 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31148 [quote]E.Harmony written by João da Silva, 2007-10-18 18:57:15 I am so glad to know that you have crossed the borders into Canada & Mexico. Should have been a thrilling experience. I am more impressed to know that you have been to Dubai also. I havent been there, but I am told that it is cheaper to buy stuff there than in Brazil.[/quote] I visited Toronto as a child, I recall it as a nice, clean, friendly, very pedestrian respectful city, other than that it seemed just like the United States to me. Crossing the boarder into Mexico, into the very tourist marketed Tijuana, was much different. Only the strong survive in Tijuana. There is much misery and poverty there. The cab ride, however, was quite [i]thrilling[/i]. Those f*ckers drive [i]crazy[/i] over there, they make New Yorkers look like orthodox drivers, and let me tell ya... that is no small feet. The only thing I hated, when ever we pulled into the ports of Dubai and Abudabi (spelling?), is that the U.S. dollar was less than their money so my cheap a** salary got even smaller after I would exchange it for their money. Dubai is an amazingly wealthy city, in my eyes it seemed to rival or maybe even surpass San Diego in wealth. They have very poor people there, but they tend to be Hindu Indians and Catholic Filipinos (though, I have recently read the Filipinos are doing very well now in the UAE and Dubai in particular). San Diego is a much more beautiful than Dubai, but Dubai is as clean as my memory of Toronto and it seemed to me to be twice as orderly and Dubai is waaaaaaaay more safe than most cities I've been to in the United States. In Dubai almost every other car I saw driven was an expensive BMW or Mercedes (they didn't seem to care for American made cars). I don't really recall Dubai being inexpensive, I remember always finding it frustrating to stretch my E-3 paycheck there. [quote] I am also overwhelmed by the fact that you just have three pairs of jeans and own nothing else. You must be leading a Gandhian style of life and I salute you it. I also hope that you wash the jeans once in a while, because if you dont, you can all sorts of skin diseases.[/quote] Of course many Americans (USA) own more than me - though one could easily overemphasize "many" - but there are a lot of Americans just like me and I'm afraid to say there are a lot in my city much worse off than me. I wash my clothes, and I wash myself, I'm slightly (but not entirely) a cleanliness freak. As a consumer I have cologne and aftershave I also have "StaphAseptic" which I use on cuts and abrasions from boxing or martial arts - it protects against MRSA (a drug resistant Staph killing more people in the U.S. than HIV). [quote] As for the wireless phones: Are you talking about Cell phones? If so, let me clarify that it is easy for our favelados (the ones who live in the Favelas) to buy these gadgets in dozens of monthly installments, but difficult to pay the monthly bills charged by the Cell phone operators. These nice folks also buy color TVs on installments, so that they can watch their favorite soap operas every evening. btw, I dont have any stats about the percentage of buysers who DONT pay all the installments. You should really come down to Brazil and do some good community work. [/quote] Rent-A-Centers are very common in the U.S. amongst the poor too. Wireless phones include cellphones. And I'm not Mother Teresa, I'm more like Jimmy Hoffa in character if any thing, and I'm not even like Hoffa really either, I'm my own animal but if anything I need "saving" from the Brazilians not the other way around. Some angelic Brazilian chick in a favela (if they exist) who may or may not be illiterate could teach me a positive and or wise thing or two I'm sure. - e harmony Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:47:15 +0100 http://www.brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/184-october-2007/9983.html#comment-31147 [quote]"It even costs more to get the basics like soap and laundry detergent," said Michelle Grassia, who lives with her husband and three teenage children in the Bedford-Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn, N.Y. Her husband's check from his job at a grocery store used to last four days. "Now, it lasts only two," she said. [/quote] Harmony, dont ya think that it is time for Michelle,her husband and 3 teen age kids to go back to their country of birth? The situation in U.S. seems to be scary and alarming. So what you all guys do, with the gas price so high? Enlighten all of us please. - João da Silva Fri, 19 Oct 2007 20:36:06 +0100