Brazzil

It's puzzling to see an entire article about Heloise Helena and not one mention of her political party: the Party of Socialism and Liberty. Perhaps the author is displaying his in-grown American bias against any serious analysis of socialist movements and candidates. He may well put the word socialist in ironic quotation marks in his little article, tailored for what he thinks Americans can bear, but make no mistake that on the ground, in Brazil, the word socialist and the need for a socialist society iis anything but an ironic joke; it is the only way out of the endemic poverty, violence and inequality of capitalism.

Too long to list them all, but how can Brazil be "a more equitable country in contrast to many other countries"...... knowing that Brazil has the world highest poverty rate when compared to their GDP per capita ?????

Something doesnt match...as usual !

in Brazil, the word socialist and the need for a socialist society iis anything but an ironic joke; it is the only way out of the endemic poverty, violence and inequality of capitalism.

Oh really? Then why all socialist countries are poor? What about North Korea, Cuba, East Germany, the former Eastern Europe, Africa, China...? What did socialist countries do to escape poverty and bring in progress?

Funny statement.Because how can you explain that in every capitalist country on this planet....there is less poverty, better education, better social inclusion than in pure socialists countries !

Simple demonstration that capitalist countries take better care of their population than socialists countries do !

Then socialists provide only promises but unable and unwilling to deliver them, while capitalists act more than promises since they deliver what they promised.
Socialists are dreamers.....only !

In my view the better is being both. This created the world wealthiest countries with the world better social inclusions, protection and education.

One must not forget that making a profit is always at the expense of someone else, in both the socialism and capitalism ideology. Then either the 2 are right or the 2 are wrong.
But every business shall return a profit, otherwise it is not a long term viable business.....except in communism ideology !

Combining and mixing correctly the 2 ideologies deliver the best results, although not a perfect result, since human nature will never ever be perfect. One country will always be richer than the other. It remains that the less rich shall not be poor. And if it is poor it is because the country leaders (governments and politicians) did not do things correctly.
A country will never become wealthy by investing only for the short term as Brazil did and still does today.
Sustainable long term growth can only be done with truly heavy investments in education, education and education. If combined with long term investments AND maintenance of infrastructure.......there is a chance for a better tomorrow.

But even today, Lula government spends only 0,4 % of the government budget in infrastructure investments AND maintenance. Then how can anyone expects a better tomorrow ??????? And the nature of the Brazilian thinkings is an investment must produce a profit within 2 to 4 years otherwise it is not a good investment. Wrong......simple !

Just look at Ireland, a devastated country 20 years ago and by bow they have the highest income per capita in all the EU.
Just look at South Korea, a country poorer than Brazil only 2 or 3 decades ago and by now far richer. Why ? Well.....their number of University degree is 86 %.......Brazil 10,6 %. What they spend in education is exactly what Brazil spends in government pensioneers. And what you spend in education is exactly what South Korea spends in government pensioneers. I can provide this Brazilian source...on request.
In fact you do exactly the opposite of what successful countries do.

You reduce interest rates, while the developed and developing countrie increase them.
Again....just the opposite !

Brazil and many S.A. countries always defend themselves for what is not going right by saying it is due to the "other" countries or "external" , while taking the benefits for themselves when things are a little better.

Case in mind : Lula !
This guy did nothing positive for the country. He was just lucky to have been elected at the exact time when there was a world recovery created by the USA.
It happens that all the developing countries grew far more than Brazil. And going back to the personal earlier misfortune is a pure hiding of the reality. Because ALL other developing nations were not in better shape than Brazil in 2003 !!!! Many were even in far worse economic and financial conditions than you were.
Lula grew the country only because of external demand and never because of internal demand.....due to his policies and decisions. At the same time the other developing countries took decisions that benefited ALSO their internal demand, making them grow often twice the brazilian growth rate.

"Funny statement.Because how can you explain that in every capitalist country on this planet....there is less poverty, better education, better social inclusion than in pure socialists countries !"

Wow, you are ignorant. You must live in a capitalist country.

"This guy did nothing positive for the country."

Wow, you are ignorant. Lucky for you Lula will be reelected and you may have a chance (or your children will have a chance) to become educated.

Ireland made a revolution in their education system. And that passed throught the privatization of the entire basic school system, having the state only the role of paying school for the poor.

It's clear that 3rd way economies do way better than those pure socialist economies. And it's also clear that the same 3rd way economies do way better than semi-socialist, highly planned and specially too much corrupted like that of Brazil. Compare Switzerland or Sweden to any socialist countries, any islamic countries or any latin american countries and you will see that. Capitalist economies may be harsh and unforgiving, so some kind of help to those at the bottom is not entirely wrong. Howevr, one must be careful as that cannot consume too many resources nor taxes and specially, must not support illegal imigrants, in the way it happens in Europe with muslims.

I'm afraid however, that wealth generation ends up being less than it could be in 3rd way countries. You see, Sweden has virtually zero corruption, as well as Austria and Switzerland. That has a great impact on wealth, you can be sure of it. Their politicians are genuinely commited to the future of their countries and try to do their best. They care for the poor and the competitivity of their companies as well. However, as is said here, the hell has plenty of good intentions. Let's take the case of Sweden. While Sweden did not enter the 2nd World War, its economy remained strong, with little destruction. But it is noticeable that their growth rate has been below that of other countries in other corners of the globe as well... comparing Sweden to other european countries does not give us much insight, but let's compare them against the United States: the average size of the house of a poor american (some 35 million americans are considered to be poor) is bigger than the average size of swedish citizens as a whole! Not only that, consumption standards are also bigger. While the american economy is growing, the swedish economy is stuck. Swedish people generate a lot of wealth, but they end up spending much more on social security, fuel, average consumer goods and specially food and housing, due to the many regulations. If swedish abandoned their incentives for agriculture, and let the market provide schooling and health care, as well as let unemployed people look for credit on their own to have money for the hard times, the same way it happens in the US, they would sure be better off.

The incentives for agriculture are the most problematic thing in Europe. What's the point in keeping farmers working in backwards techniques when there are so many machines around to make the job in the fields? Deregulating and lifting barriers on the sector would sure make they increase their productivity and specialize in crops that benefit the most from their soil and climate. Remember, the inverse happes in Brazil, the regulations and barriers are on industry, not agriculture. And Brazil has a competitive agriculture while having a fragile industrial sector.

Anyway, if by some miracle someone in Brazil decides to change things to the way they are in Sweden, I have no problem with that. That's not the most efficient way, but that's efficient compared to the actual mess.

Some data on american poverty:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm

Truth, I enjoy your contributions to this site. They are, for the most part, informative. However, I have a small problem with your above suggestion. Adopting and securing a political/economical model for a country is not like choosing socks in the morning before you go to work. Brazil’s problems, regardless of whatever political winds they may wish to sway, are cultural. Now, culture is not something that is static, easily definable or linear across nations as vast as Brazil. Still, there are underpinnings of commonality that can be connected. The biggest here in Brazil for me, is immaturity.

Some refer to Brazilians as lazy, others as ill-informed and undereducated, some see them as corrupt. Surely you cannot apply all these traits to everyone across the board. I’ve met some very talented Brasilians, and some extremely bright and well educated ones. I’ve also come across my fare share of the corrupt as well as the ridiculously retarded. You find them all here – like everywhere else (although, I think that here the latter are more pronounced). However the one commonality I’ve been able to see throughout all states, all regions and from the big cities to the small townships is IMMATURITY.

This in my humble opinion is what attracts gringos at first glance to the country. That freestyle way of life or better yet, a quasi spring break mentality expanded over the year. However, it is also what repulses gringos whom have had to endure working in and surviving Brazil for any length of time. It is also what ostensibly always sets the country back from any form of progress.

No matter what changes are made in politics, or economics they will always be treated with a frat house mentality. Whoever is in charge will always feel a sense of entitlement, and will dip their talons into the kitty. Regardless of whoever is catapulted to power, O povo will always expect everything handed to them on a silver platter. When they don’t get what they want, as is per usual, they pout like grade school children. What’s not given to them, they have, in their mind’s eye, earned to the right to TAKE. This will not change over night. The “Jeito Brasiliero”, which should replace “Ordem e Progresso” on the brasilian flag will always impede whatever foreseeable advances this country could make. And it all stems from immaturity.

We talk politics and we talk economics, but as one article on this very site stated years ago, it will take a MENTAL revolution to change Brazil.

But Brazil spends a lot more on social security and is still quite poorer. Your arguments are thus not valid.
Concerning consumption....yesss I agree with you. but that is excatly what differientates wealth and poverty. Dont you believe that this exactly what Brazil is expecting to do...but without success....except for the minority elite ? Come on ! Every one wishes to have a car, a house, could afford to go on vacations, buy clothes, provide good education to their children, driving in good roads, not having too much bureaucracy.

Sorry but there you are full of contradictions.
And comparing the poor Americans and the poor Brazilians dont make sense either. Every poor American has a car, while not all the Brazilian middle class has a car.
Another simple demonstration would be to ask the poor brazilians if they would prefer to have their actual standared of living of the standard of living of poor Americans. And then asked the same question to a "poor" American ! smile.......

Even in Switzerland or Sweden there are poors. Simply because you take the 10/20/30 % of the lowest income and they are poor....by simple rankings !

By the way......I am from Switzerland. Smile....
A country with small land, no oil, no copper, no iron ore, small farms, no car manufacturers, no chip manufacturing plant, no gold in the grounds, Simply stated not a country blessed by natural wealth.
But we are one the wealthiest countries, with low unemployment, good social protection, low inflation, strong currency for decades.
Almost the same could be said for Sweden !

And how did we develop our wealth ? Through accountability from our government, education, education and education. Curiously enough we export more than Brazil despite having a population of only 7 million.
Another stat that I saw just yesterday is that our public debts is US$ 190 billions or the equivalent of US$ 27000.- per capita ! Yessssss ! And despite such huge debts we have no problems and still have a strong currency. Funny isnt it ? Smile
And I dont see why debts are a problem. Just like a well managed corporation, borrowing money is good, provided the investments generates more profits than the interest rate that must be paid on the borrowed money. This create wealth......not poverty.

My all point is that wealth can be created even when one is not blessed by abundant natural resources, land or warm climate.
In my view, Brazil should be a developed country, but due to their corruptions, total mismanagement for 2 centuries, and where it was and still is the mentalkity of everything for a few and the rest for the othjer 90 %, this country wil never ever change and will remain a developing country for eternity. What is happening in many ways in Brazil would simply not be accepted by the electors. but in Brazil they re-elect those who have stolen their money and those who betrayed them. Strange culture...... !
Strange culture for a country that exports over US$ 45 billions in agriculture but still have hunger but mostly an under nourrished population in the tens of millions, instead of feeding first their own society and export the surplus ONLY !!!!!!!
Strange culture to ask for more exports......while they already have a huge trade surplus.
Strange culture for such a request knowing that Brazil has far more Industrial and Financial Services barriers that they are not willing to reduce as much as they request us to reduce our subsidizes.
A country that wants to develop their computer education, while taxing 100 % their imports for such products. Quite full of contradictions for a not so wealthy country.
Computers can thus not be bought by the majority of the population....by simple maths !
A country that spends only 0,4% of the budget for investments will not become developed...by simple maths, and contrary to what Lula is saying.
This guy is proud of having delivered the smallest economic growth of ALL developing countries ! How could he be re-elected ? Funny isnt it ?

And with all the corruptions scandals by their politicians, you had only 5000 citizens manifesting in Brasilia last year during the heat of the Mensalao scandal. Yes 5000 out of a population of 190 millions. A true joke showing they not only dont really care but also show to the corrupted that they have no reason to stop their corruption practices....by simple definition.
A country where 50 % of youths deaths aged 15-24 is due from violent crimes.
A country where crime rate almost tripled in 25 years.
And SP alone with 600 kidnapings per year.

Whoaaaa...quite choking !!!!

I was not comparing poor brazilians to poor americans. I was comparing average swedish to poor americans. I saw some stats somewhere pointing that about half of swedish homes would be considered low income in the US. If I were to compare brazilians, I would need to compare upper middle class ones to poor swedish or miserable americans. I just made a comparison between european and brazilian agriculture to show you how much harm does the food security policy in Europe. There is not much difference between Brazil and african countries. But at the contrary of the latter, Brazil has a successful agriculture (which is being destroyed by now).

Of course, that's both a response to Jaded and to you. Dealing with swedish, americans or swiss is much easier than dealing with brazilians. You have a culture of progress in your countries. People are honest and hardworking by nature. As such, that's only a matter of choosing the best economical model. I don't know much about swiss model, but it looks quite good for me. Lot of economical freedom, not so high taxes, accountable government. But Sweden pushed it too far. They are spending too much in social security, and that's what makes their country lag behind the freer economies. The same applies, today, to France and Germany.

Now, to Jaded. I agree with you Jaded. Just sometimes I dream of being a national of a decent country. As a matter of fact, as you have pointed out, lazy people, imature, retarded, exist everywhere. The difference is in their distribution. Unfortunately, imature and idiot brazilians look to be far more than half of the population. And curiously, the more study one has in humanities in Brazil, the dumber the person is (the same happens to some degree in the US). That's not something that changes overnight. It requires a slow and calm rebuild from the roots. That must be built in a gramscian way, but instead of building up socialism, it's necessary to build up a culture of individual rights and responsibilities, in my view. If that does not happen, our country will be always at risk of tiranny, absolute poverty or a combination of both. A system like the ones that exist in the US or Europe would eventually work, and the success of agriculture in Brazil until the 1990s is an example of that. But the will of the people will be to overthrow it all the time.

Whorf, a linguistic theorist (humanities knowledge ) said : "man lives surrounded by the world exactly like the language he possess represents it".

Truth = ignorant lie

When PT anounced that they would hire people to reply to everything in every forum or internet blog, I expected better. Look at this cacique guy. He doesn't have even the basic skills of arguing. Instead of making interesting comments and pointing flaws on my comments, as others here have done, he can just write propaganda, slogans and insults. Pathetic.

I wonder if this cacique guy is a true petista. He must be someone hired by PSDB to disguise as petista to make them all look pathetic

Yes, you are a pathetic liar, "Truth." Your arguments are so jejune, uninformed and illogical that they are a waste of time. Oh, well, at least YOU think you're smart. LOL

Cacique I left you a message on the thead Are Brazilians ready for Democracy?

Yes, you are a pathetic liar, "Truth." Your arguments are so jejune, uninformed and illogical that they are a waste of time. Oh, well, at least YOU think you're smart. LOL

Ok then. I called most of my countrymen stupid and cheaters. But my arguments are well based for anyone here. They may be objectionable and you could question them. But you call me a liar without showing evidence. What about showing my lies to everyone?

As for being smart, perhaps I'm not. I'm still in Brazil and posting things in the Internet questioning a petista. God knows (if He exists) how many problems that could bring to me eh? Who knows, after Lula's reelection or even before. Perhaps I should watch my mouth, who knows...

Cacique I left you a message on the thead Are Brazilians ready for Democracy? Opisy gg

Truth = ignorant lie

Maybe a woman will do a better job than all the croocks that have been the presidents of this beautiful country.
We need a change!!!!!!! I am from Brazil and I have not seen any improvement in this country in decades. Hell, since my grandparents were born (1915)...so they say...
GOOD LUCK Eloisa Helena