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        Brasil and Latin America?
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Guest



Anonymous
   
I tried registering, but damn my computer. I'll keep at it.

This has just been a passing question, but I find it interesting. I read in an old article on this site that Brasilians don't really see themselves as "Latin"? That you saw them as "distant cousins". I'm not saying all Brasilians feel this way, just what I read on here (the magazine I mean).

I've always felt that to say your Latin was an assumption, when of course Brasilians are much more than that (no offense to any Latin people), also you don't speak Spanish. I may be a little ignorant here, but I'd really like to know the consensus amongst Brasilians when it comes to the "Latin" label. I know this is the least of your worries, but I just wanted to know.

I don't want to offend anyone. I'd just like to be better informed as a lover of the country. Thank you.

Total Posts: 211 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 10:46 pm on Jan. 22, 2003 | IP
Guest



Anonymous
   
To add:

I recently purchased an english translated version of one of Jorge Amado's books, and the reviewers on the back said "Great Latin American writer". It was just something I never thought to ask, and that kind of peeked my interest in knowing.

Thanks again. My name is John. I tried registering, but I have yet to receive an e-mail with my password. So you can call me John if you like.

Total Posts: 211 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 10:50 pm on Jan. 22, 2003 | IP
Guest



Anonymous
   
From my experience the password is sent automatically in a few seconds. If I were you I would just register again.

Total Posts: 211 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 11:45 pm on Jan. 22, 2003 | IP
Toolio


Newbie
   
I live in Brasil, although I'm not Brasilian. I've certainly never noticed any concern here about the term "Latin" or "Latin American."

To me, Latin does not equal "Spanish." Portuguese is a Latin language--it is the second most-spoken Latin language in the world. In fact, Portuguese retains many of the Latin grammar forms that have disappeared from many other Latin--sometimes known as "Romance"-- languages.

Here's a brief history of Portuguese as it pertains to Latin.

http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/cvc/literaturaingles/LINGUA.HTM

So I guess in the truest sense a Brasilian is a Latin American.



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Toolio

Total Posts: 12 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 3:51 am on Jan. 23, 2003 | IP
Guest



Anonymous
   
To guest: if you've registered how come you still post under "guest"? Not the person who started this thread but the other "guest".

My Brasilian friends say it's not an issue. I think I get where the confusion is coming in for you. I don't think it's the language but how Latin America is perceived in general. I aslo feel culture is a major factor. Anyways. I'm not Brasilian so what do I know. I'm actually Borricua (Puerto Rican).  

Total Posts: 211 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 7:50 am on Jan. 23, 2003 | IP
Loco


Newbie
   

 The true latins are the people from France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Romenia.

 Many countries in "Latin America" are called latin because of the language, not because of the people origin.

 In the same way that there is anglo-saxon people, there is latin too.

 Black or asian americans are anglo-saxon? I don think so.

 I have german and italian origin, I think Im latin because of my italian origin, but I dont know about my friends who only have german origin, or japanese...

 Most of brazilians have latin origin, but many not, so you cant say that er are all latin.

Now I would like to ask something, why in US every1 from Latin America are called HISPANIC?





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SEI LÁ

Total Posts: 16 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 8:37 am on Jan. 23, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
I won't get into about who "true Latins" are, because to me that's just well subjective.

I will say visit this site, to explain why the word Hispanic is used.

http://www.lcc.edu/eo_mcc/events/names.htm

Here is an excerpt from the site, you can go to it for further reading:

Although the terms "Hispanic" and "Latino" can suggest ethnic or cultural homogeneity, one of the most striking characteristics of the group is its diversity. There is no consensus among people of Latin American heritage as to the correct term with which to identify themselves. The following glossary will help you put a name to this diverse segment of the U.S. population.  When in doubt about which term to use, ask the person you are trying to describe.

Hispanic - a person of Spanish American heritage. This term was coined and institutionalized in the 1970s by the U.S. Department of Education, the Office of Management and Budget, and the Census Bureau as an all-inclusive label to define people who trace their origins to Mexico, Spain or the Spanish-speaking countries of the Caribbean or Central and South America. The term is said to be an adaptation of the Spanish words hispano or hispánico, which mean "referring to Spain." Although widely viewed as a positive descriptor, especially in the media, some regard the term Hispanic as Eurocentric, connoting colonialism and disregarding the influences of the indigenous cultures of the Americas.

Latino/a - a person of Latin American origin. The term Latino is said to be derived from the Spanish latinoamericano. In contrast with the term Hispanic, which connotes a geographic reference to Spain, the primary points of reference for the term Latino are former Spanish and Portuguese colonies of Latin America. For many, the term encompasses people who can trace their origins to virtually any of the countries of South America, much of the Caribbean, Central America and Mexico, including those parts of the national territory of the United States that were appropriated from Mexico (i.e., Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, California and Arizona).

    Because the term Latino refers to an area of former colonies that are now independent nations as opposed to the geographic seat of their colonizers, the term has become a more preferred descriptor than Hispanic. Some also view the word Latino as more appropriate for naming the multiethnic category of Latin American immigrants. (Latino is the masculine form of the word, while Latina is the feminine form.)

As a Puerto Rican I could care less what they refer to me as, because honestly I always say "I am Porta Rock", or "Boricua". It's not that deep to me, in fact what you will find now is just like people went from Negroe to Colored to Black or African-American. Times change people get offended some don't. I've found that it's usually the United States politicians who like to think of new words for any miniority living here. That's why some American kids are confused when someone says an Indian is not a Native American, I've seen this happen. Just like in some parts of America you will find a person who still refers to us as Spics or wetbacks, along with a host of other words, every ethnic group has a word they don't like to be referred by. I personally don't call Black people black, I like to refer back to their heritage so I call them African-American,  but that's me. Black to me is a color not a person, but again that's me. I like to refer back to my country, whatever works really for whoever.

Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 9:36 am on Jan. 23, 2003 | IP
Pedro


Newbie
   
In fact, the label "latin america" is invalid as national or cultural identity. It was invented by the french in XIX century. Emperor Napoleon III had a project of establishing colonies in central America, then invaded Mexico and placed his friend Maximilien as king. This new french domain was named "Latin America", meaning that it should be ruled by France, the most important latin nation.

As we know, Maximilien was overthrown and later executed by the mexicans, and that put an end to the dream of "Latin America", but the name survived as a label. Actually, it means nothing, except "all the rest", that is, all the rest of american continent that is not US or Canada.

Total Posts: 17 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 9:39 am on Jan. 23, 2003 | IP
ELEGANTGENT



Junior Member
   
AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE FROM AFRICA. THEY CAN BE WHITE OR BLACK. THAT IS A NAME THAT IS MEANT TO CAUSE CONFUSION AND DISCLAIM BLACK AMERICANS. MY HERITAGE IS NOT FROM AFRICA IT IS FROM AMERICA. I HAVE NOT BEEN TO AFRICA NOR HAVE MY PARENTS ETC.
MY MOTHER IS CHEROKEE AND ALSO MY FATHERS SIDE HAVE NATIVE PARENTS. SOME PEOPLE PREFER THE HYPHENATED TERM. IF THEY LIKE IT IS OK, BUT DON'T STEREO TYPE OR GENERALIZE.

Total Posts: 53 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 12:31 pm on Jan. 23, 2003 | IP
Guest



Anonymous
   
elegantgent please speak for yourself. i dont think boricua was trying to offend. what i got is labels we use to define people are a case by case basis. you may not like being called african american but i do. my personal preference. i am not offended and i think you are being overly sensitive. chill out please. are you sure your not marqueseazy elegantgent? because your ranting sounds like his. i didn't read anything offensive in this entire topic. this is only my opinion. we need to learn to read carefully on these message boards and take into account that tones can come off as negative but jumping to conclusions. this board enjoys a fairly decent insult free environment i would like to see it continue that way.

i also see brasil as latin because reasons explained by toolio.

Total Posts: 211 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 2:43 am on Jan. 24, 2003 | IP
mooseboy84


Newbie
   
AND TRY NOT TO USE CAPS WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. we can still read if its LOWER case.

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<<because i f**kin said so>>

Total Posts: 12 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 2:55 am on Jan. 24, 2003 | IP
Adam


Junior Member
   
I just saw that Simpsons episode last night, titles "Blame it on Lisa." Lisa tries to find an orphan she sponsers by taking a family trip to Rio. Sadly, everyone in Rio is portrayed as gay with hispanic accents, and monkeys roam freely, theres also a childrens show they show where the theme is of a sexual nature. I dont know if the writers of the simpsons were trying to poke fun at Brasil, by not doing any research and making it up, or if they really thought brasilians have latin accents, and monkeys running rampant..either way, it was way off base and ill informed. I hope this isnt the way Brazil is seen by the average joe.  

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Tchau

Total Posts: 64 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 7:53 am on Jan. 24, 2003 | IP
Guest



Anonymous
   
come on- The Simpsons is a *satire*! I interpret that episode as making fun of the simplistic notions that most people have of Brazil. It's true! Those with no interest in or knowledge of Brazil's culture (frat boys gone wild, "green cards" looking for sexy half-naked girls on the beach, etc.) assume that it's a Banana Republic where sex and good times are easily had, and that EVERYONE is black or mulato.

Total Posts: 211 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 9:03 am on Jan. 24, 2003 | IP
Patinho



Junior Member
   
Adam-

While of course some parts were completely baseless, I mean, It IS a cartoon, I saw this episode a few months ago. It is one of my favorite episodes.

I think the writers did just enough research. For instance the distinction Marge made when Bart learned Spanish and she informed him that Brazilians speak Portuguese. It was really cool to see them eating at a churrascaria. Also, they correctly pronounced the little boy's name "Roberto".
On the other hand, we have the scenes with the Congo line, the anaconda eating Bart, and of course, the aforementioned monkeys. I also didn't appreciate the humor associated with the favelas. Luckily, Lisa was there to set them straight.

The point is, this is how most American persceive nearly anything south of Texas.

When my freind was here, we were eating at a McDonald's with an American freind. He asked all kinds of questions such as "Do you have monkeys in the streets? Do you ride horses to school?" To this day she still regards him as the stupidest person she has ever met. She played nice and answered his questions, but you get my point.

Hell, even before I knew much about Brazil, I assumed the entire country was a rain forest. (Were talking age 15 fellas)

Now when people ask about Brazil, I give them the short answer; "It's just like America, just a little different." Trying to go into specifics with people that just have no idea is getting tiresome.

Of course, whenever a person asks about monkeys, I feel I must indulge them by saying "oh man you wouldn't believe it. They don't have traffic lights in Brazil, they have those monkeys with red asses trained and sitting where a street light would be. When it's time to stop, the monkey lowers his red ass. Things get really messy when it's feeding time."

I know I shouldn't do this and I should take this opportunity to "inform" my fellow Americans. But sometimes I can't resist. Sorry.

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"Quem quer viver faz magica"
--Guimaraes Rosa

Total Posts: 67 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 1:07 pm on Jan. 24, 2003 | IP
ELEGANTGENT



Junior Member
   
TO GUEST, I WAS NOT OFFENDED BY BORICUA. SOME PEOPLE PREFER IT, SOME DON'T.  THAT IS MY LOGIC AND THAT WAS MY POINT.

Total Posts: 53 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 1:39 pm on Jan. 24, 2003 | IP
Adam


Junior Member
   
Eu dizia somente que eu vi, não era realmente irritado. Eu observei também o poucas coisas feitas corretamente...bàsicamente estavam dizendo, "sim, nós sabemos que nós estamos fazendo, mas desde a maioria de americanos pensam Brasil é uma extensão de México, nós podemos ter divertimento com o assunto."

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Tchau

Total Posts: 64 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 2:44 pm on Jan. 24, 2003 | IP
ELEGANTGENT



Junior Member
   
adam, that sounds about right. they may even ask you if brazil is in mexico (hehehe). they have little exposure , interest, or education when it comes to foreign lands. man, they don't even know where new mexico or maine is.

Total Posts: 53 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 3:36 pm on Jan. 24, 2003 | IP
ELEGANTGENT



Junior Member
   
MOOSEBOY, IF THIS EASES YOUR HEAD PAIN DON'T READ IT.

Total Posts: 53 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 4:16 pm on Jan. 24, 2003 | IP
Toolio


Newbie
   
Regarding comments about the Simpsons, above:

The Simpsons, as somebody has already pointed out, is satire. It has no responsibility or duty to get things right to appease Brasilians or anyone else. I'm a Canadian living in Brasil, and I'd like to point out that the Simpsons regularly pokes fun at Canada--in its usual inaccurate, slanted, over-the-top, but extremely funny manner. Australians will tell you the same thing. Canadians don't get offended--they just laugh along with it.

What I found alarming was the original Brasilian reaction to the episode when the Simpsons visit Rio. For a country that stakes its reputation on being easy going, people certainly get offended easily.

And finally, anyone who relies on the Simpsons for an accurate view of the world is probably beyond redemption. So if the Brasil episode keeps them out of the country, we're probably better off.




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Toolio

Total Posts: 12 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 4:57 am on Jan. 28, 2003 | IP
Popozuda



Newbie
   
I have no problem with people refering to Brasilians as latins just as long as they dont make assumptions of that word. I think most people think of Mexico, everywhere in South American BUT Brasil and Cuba and Porto Rico and everywhere that speaks Spanish as a "latin"place. I hate it when people think the wrong thing about Brasil. We don't speak spanish, we didnt event the salsa and our capital is not Agentina. haha. You all wouldnt believe the things I have heard people say about what they think Brasil and Brasilians are like. Once someone asked if Brasil was close to Jamaca. Then someone asked if everyone sleeps in little huts and plays with the monkeys. I didnt know weather to laugh or if they were serious.
So if the world Latin... makes people think these things then noooooo I dont want to be associated with this word.

The simposons show did make me mad. Because people will watch that , that already think of Brasil as being somewhere in Europe or speaking Spanish will think that some of the things they saw on that show is the truth. I didn't think it was funny at all. And when they said at the end how our money is so colorful.. then its gay.... what is that? R MONEY ROCKS@ hahaha
And at the end when Bart says its carnaval and then they play salsa music... what is that?

But I guess people wont really learn about a country and other cultures untill they get off there butt and believe that there is more in life then there life and there country. Cause I really dont think they realize how important other countrys are!

Total Posts: 7 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 9:00 am on Jan. 28, 2003 | IP
ELEGANTGENT



Junior Member
   
popozuda, that is because of americas poor public schools and also a corrupt misinforming media. i know because i went there and geography is almost completely ignored. social studies courses are few and brief. emphasis is on how fast books can be briefed, not on quality of learning and what is taught or how it is taught. also voluntary segregation plays a part.  it is almost as if they are trying to blend america into another third world nation. deteriorating before my eyes. dumbing down of america has been in process.

Total Posts: 53 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 11:40 am on Jan. 28, 2003 | IP
Guest



Anonymous
   
Interesting.

(Edited by Guest at 1:08 pm on Jan. 28, 2003)

Total Posts: 211 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 1:05 pm on Jan. 28, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Having studied and taught in both the U.S. and Brazil, I have to agree with Elegantgent's appraisal of how the average U.S. public school system treats the rest of the America's.

Americans are simply brutally uninformed about their neighbors to the south. Not that Brazilians are that well informed about the U.S., however...

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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:34 am on Jan. 30, 2003 | IP
Ze


Junior Member
   
Without giving examples, do you think that the mutual ignorance between the educated classes is the same, or is it "dispar".

Total Posts: 93 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 3:26 pm on Jan. 30, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Oh, definitely dispar. Americans are much more ignorant.

HOWEVER...

I'd say about 30 percent of the U.S. comprises the "educated  classes" while about only 5 percent of Brazil can be labeled as such. If one were to take the upper 5 percent of both countries, one probably wouldn't find much difference.

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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 4:19 pm on Jan. 30, 2003 | IP
Guest



Anonymous
   
Americans aren't the only "dumb" people in this world. Damn Americans get a bad rap, I'm glad I'm Irish haha.

Total Posts: 211 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 6:44 pm on Jan. 30, 2003 | IP
Estudante de Ingles


Newbie
   

Yes, we are a tupi-tupinamba-banto-gege-latin people, we are the tropical roman empire and
we always have a passionate love and hate affair with lady Argentina.


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"nós gatos já nascemos pobres porém já nascemos livres"

Total Posts: 22 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 5:21 pm on Feb. 4, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Does this mean we get to watch porteño backpackers fighting lions in Maracaná, now?

Hey, they might even get me to a football game if that were the halftime show!

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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 6:21 pm on Feb. 4, 2003 | IP
 

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