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krista



Junior Member
   
Do you think "em branco" is a good thing? I seem to have some mixed feelings about it, but I've never even heard of such thing, so I haven't had a chance to figure out for myself if it has actually a good effect...

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Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 9:31 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
Ze


Junior Member
   
It is not worth dwelling, it is just another resource for those who don't care about politics, or are over rebellious.

So far it has not changed any significant electoral results.

Total Posts: 93 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 9:38 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
THANK GOD I LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE VOTING IS NOT MANDATORY BUT OPTIONAL BOY DO I LOVE DEMOCRACY BOY DO I LOVE AMERICA

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 9:53 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
What about the fact that all candidates are allowed time to express their views on T.V.. How does this work.
This is very impressive to me. It is what the U.S. lacks.

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Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 10:02 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
Oh yes, Marques, America really is a wonderful paradise of democracy. Just think of it: you don't have to vote!! How great!! You can sneak away from getting to influence where your country goes, but still complain when things go wrong. Nice.
And also, even when you do want to vote, they have made the choice really easy for you - out of all the parties that exist in here, you only have to choose between the two main ones. How easy - exactly the best option for morons like you!!!
I don't want to insult anyone (well, anyone but Marques); I also know a lot of americans who do attempt to keep up with politics in US, and who actively influence it by letting their representatives know of their needs. but i think this is a very sad fact how the smaller parties in US get squeezed out of the playground by the two giants... (like not getting to debate on TV and stuff). For you, Marky, the best option would probably be actually a one-party system or dictatorship, because you don't really care anyway. Are you even able to name more than two political parties in US, a**hole?

I'll join with Jeromy's question - how does that work in Brasil?

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Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 10:18 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
FUCK YOU KRISTA YOU WHITE BITCH YOU AINT SHIT YOU ASSHOLE MUTHAFUCKA

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 10:34 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
I don't understand why any of you give this person the time of day. He enjoys inflaming you. I had typed a long response, but I disgress it got lost.

Anyways I'm still pondering how Brasil would benefit be back tomorrow for a full round of words.

Hey I'm interested in the ever intelligenista Macunaima's thoughts. He always seems to have the balanced opinion. I think did do some time (as in residing here) in America? Well either way hope to read all of you soon.

Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 10:50 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   

Quote: from MARQUESEAZY on 10:34 pm on Feb. 16, 2003
FUCK YOU KRISTA YOU WHITE BITCH YOU AINT SHIT YOU ASSHOLE MUTHAFUCKA



Oh wow. Umm, sure, you're correct as usual, Marky. I truly admire your intelligence. Just keep informing me of your latest discoveries, ok?
---

Boricua, I must agree with you here. I let some steam out by picking on Marky a bit, but it seems like it would be a good time to hear from Macunaima now...

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Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 11:05 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
BORICUA WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT BRAZIL THERE IS NO PUERTO RICAN COMMUNITY IN BRAZIL ITS BRAZIL NOT THE BRONX OR SPANISH HARLEM THEY DONT EVEN SPEAK SPANISH IN BRAZIL.THEY SPEAK PORTUGUESE YOU WOULD HAVE A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING THEM BESIDES BRAZILIANS DONT EVEN CONSIDER THEMSELVES LATINOS

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 11:20 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
fernandobn


Junior Member
   
Jeromy
All candidates independently of which office they are running for, have the right of a free time in Radio and TV to expose their plans. The TRE-Tribunal Regional Eleitoral, kind of an Electoral Court, decides how many minutes the candidates of each category(President, Senator, Representatives and etc) will have available for them. Of course candidates of Political Parties with more representatives will have a bigger slice of the time. This is a short description of course. At least is good to know a little bit of what they pretend to do and also see their faces on the screen.  The Propaganda run around noon and 8:00 PM.

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Fernando B.

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 2:00 am on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
"IN BRAZIL YOU WOULD NEVER FIND DOMINICANS, CUBANS, PUERTO RICANS, HONDURIANS, SAMOANS, FILIPINOS, MEXICANS, JAMAICANS, HAITIANS, NICARAGUANS, PANAMANIANS, NIGERIANS..."

Ah, but I HAVE found these flavors of immigrants in Brazil, MARQUES MULATINHO, and many more to boot. You simply don't know WHAT the fuck you are talking about, kid, as per usual.

"YOU RARELY SEE A BLACK COUPLE IN BRAZIL..."

Man, you are one ignorant bastard. Most Brazilians actually marry people who look a lot like themselves, much as in the States. I think the idea that there's more miscegenation here - at least in terms of percentage of couples per population -  than in the States is simply a myth.

MULATINHO sez: "THANK GOD I LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE VOTING IS NOT MANDATORY BUT OPTIONAL BOY DO I LOVE DEMOCRACY BOY DO I LOVE AMERICA."

Yes, and the Republican Party in Florida went out of their way to make sure that many people of MARQUES MULATINHO'S skin color COULDN'T vote in the last presidential elections. How fucking democratic. Of course, that didn't bother MULATINHO none, 'cause he was to busy whackin' off to the black booty shaking it on BET.

The descriptive "happy as a pig in shit" springs to mind.

Patinho: "I know this is just a dumb rhetorical question, but you get my point. And how possibly could a race be bred out of existance in a country? The concept of that is ridiculous."

Yes, but MARQUE MULATINHO believes in the old "whitening" dogmas of the 19th century. He apparently thinks "white blood" is "stronger" than "black blood", otherwise his comments would make no sense at all. And being ignorant, stupid, or just plain wrong has never stopped him from posting in the past.

Jeromy and Boricua: to answer your question on comparitive democracy, you first need to try to define what you mean by "democratic". If we're going to measure something, then we at least need to know what it is we're measuring, right?

So take a shot at it: what does "democratic" mean to you? Let's see if we can't establish a base for measurement here and then go on to make comparisons...




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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 3:29 am on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
Democracy is more than simply holding regular elections, but rather the principle that all people within a nation have the right to have their voices heard and taken into account in all matters that affect their quality of life and aspirations for themselves and their children.
Aristotle said that “Democracy is when the indigent and not the men of property, are the rulers.”  Democracy is when the will of the people rule, and not the aspirations of the few.
Elections are necessary but not sufficient to produce democracy. The reality in U.S. is that the spectrum of choices available to voters is narrow. The information presented to voters is circumscribed by the homogeneous, superficial, and unimaginative coverage of elections in the news media. The propaganda apparatus of the advertising industry is used to manipulate and manage, not to enlighten. American electoral politics not only fails to provide for the accountability of government to the people, it has become a principal tool for elites to manage politics and political choices.
So in the U.S. we have democracy in name, but a plutocracy in reality.
It is as Helen Keller said in the early 1900's: "Our democracy is but a name. We vote? What does that mean? It means that we choose between two bodies of real, though not avowed, autocrats, We choose between Tweedledum and Tweedledee." (she was actually talking about England, but the same applies true in the U.S.)
James Madison (a U.S. founding father) said: "A popular government without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce of a tragedy, or perhaps both."
In the U.S. our democracy is a farce and a tragedy, because the rich elite control the media. They control the means to mass communication, or at least a great deal of it.
This I believe is all true of Brazil as well. The difference I believe is that in Brazil all the candidates are allowed to voice their views on T.V. or Radio. Whereas in the U.S. candidates can get on T.V. or radio only if the raise large amounts of money to advertise, which demands they have support from the rich.
This would make Brazil a little more closer to democracy than the U.S.. Not that in reality either have completely achieved it. But that Brazil is closer.  



Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 5:07 am on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Ze


Junior Member
   
Truly a shame, because it shows how ineficient the democracy is.

Total Posts: 93 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:16 am on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Adrianerik


Newbie
   
These posts seem much more political than cultural.

@Jeromy - There is a vast distinction in voting in the United States when you consisder local, state and federal elections.

Much of what you said does not apply to an enormous number of local and state elections where the issues are much closer to the population and cannot be hidden in phrases.  In South Carolina a politician can be turned out of office based upon a difference of 20 or 30 cents (based upon how much he promises to set the price of a bushel to corn to).  In these and other situations the population is very much attuned to the words of politicians that have meaning.

I'm curious.  Are folks just comparing democracy AS MANIFESTED in Brazil and the United States or the concept of democracy in general.

The former East Germany (German DEMOCRATIC Republic), the former USSR (Democratic-Centralism) and the United States all claim to be democratic countries.

It seems to me that you have to choose your democatic dimension that you wish to discuss....maybe not.

Democracy in and of itself just means 'power emanting from the people' (not the latin literal meaning but an interpretive meaning).

There have been many different manifestations of the same term.

1)The republic style which is the United States where the 'power of the people' is given to representatives (usually by a simple majority of some determined percentage of the vote).

This is very similar to the Roman system with their Senators but with immense power in the hands of an individual citizen.  In the Bible when the Apostle Paul was being manhandled by the authorities he said "as a Roman Citizen I appeal" and he was instantly respected because of the power in the being a Roman citizen (which is why Rome was made up of more non-citizens than citizens).  

2) A People's Democracy similar to the exercise of power in China's people communes.  Very good for local issues (sometimes) but horrible for the long term visionary issues.  Mostly used within the context of the workplace but not within the context of foreign relations, military an geographical decisons.  This, in many cases, is what the Religious Right is demanding.  (for example...if an entire community is Fundamental Pentacostals then that community should be able to have...let us say...revivals...in their schools...regardless of the Constitution).  

Left-wing groups use the concept of People's Democracy for propaganda purposes when these People's Courts are convened with representatives of the community as the jury and the injured citizenry (the unemployed, victims of police brutality, etc) are the defendants.

It always sounds good but then you get cases like the Sharia law of death being handed down to the young girl in a particular local community in Nigeria.  It was the unanimous verdict of the 'people' as was the Jim Crow laws against African-Americans which were legal laws voted upon by the the 'good citizens' at that time.

There has always been the need to define parameters of UNIVERSAL HUMAN RIGHTS that supercede any citizenry anywhere.

3) Democratic Centralism - which is some but not all communist systems.  Limited citizen control over decisions but always subjected to a higher decision.

All consider themselves technichally democratic.

@Krista - Socialism is an economic system with no defined political system.  Communism implies a central planning and the state control of private property which gives rise to a political system.


Peace

Total Posts: 50 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:51 am on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   

Quote: from Ze on 7:16 am on Feb. 17, 2003
Truly a shame, because it shows how ineficient the democracy is.


Oh, but it doesn't have to be.. Perhaps what we think is democracy, is really only a distorted version of it. Let us not see US as the basic measurement of democracy (even though it often claims to be), and let us think of Finland or Sweden for a moment (ok, swened technically has a king, but they're still a very nice and normal democracy). Politics is ugly/nasty everywhere, but more so in some places than in others..

Adrianerik: @Krista - Socialism is an economic system with no defined political system.  Communism implies a central planning and the state control of private property which gives rise to a political system.

- oh, ok. close enough. I always mix them up in terms of which one is economics and which one is politics. ohwell... my point still stays the same: in reply to Marqi, I just wanted to explain him that mandatory voting does not make a communist state.

This discussion on the definition of democracy is interesting. I've asked that question before and always concluded that there's really no answer that everyone will agree with. But in my mind, the basic characteristics of a modern democracy would be something like
-regular elections
-all adult citizens can vote/no discrimination in voting rights
-all adult citizens can run for an office/no discrimination here too..
that would be a really basic outline, and then become quite different depending on a country observed. The differences would be coming from things like the degree of importance of each office, the division of power between institutions, etc... But according to some people these are secondary characteristics, and the first short list would be the main requirements for democracy.
Is that correct and acceptable - i have no idea. i am still struggling myself in order to figure out what democracy really means. Sometimes I think it's one of those really wide concepts that can not be definited as one static state of politics; that democracy has so many variables, that one should not even try to make one simeple model out of it. After all, Adrianerik here has managed to demonstrate three different ways of explaining democracy and who are we to argue any one of them...

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Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 12:09 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Great post Adrianerik!

I myself am very blurry on what democracy means. If I had to take a shot at it, I'd say primary control of decision making in the hands of the people whom the decisions affect most. But that's a bit of a dodge, because - as Adrian points out - certain things should be unacceptable to humanity at large, even if a smaller group is full-square behind them. What are those things, however?

I'm reminded of a British governor of India who banned the suttee (SP?), the practice of widow burning. A group of concerned citizens came to him and said he was trampling on their local traditions. His answer was the following (IIRC):

"In England we have a tradition too. Our tradition is that if people put a woman to horrible death against her will, we hang them from the highest gallows available. But I'm a flexible man. You construct your suttee bonfire and we'll build our gallows right next to it. You burn your widow, then we'll hang the ones responsible for the burning until dead. That way both of our traditions will be fulfilled."

Notably, the gentlemen concerned weren't enthused about carrying out the suttee when it was THEIR lives at risk.

Which reminds me of a cartoon I just saw in the States, entitled "The essence of religion". A volcano is erupting in the background and a generioc tribal shaman is saying "The Gods demand that someone other than me be sacrificed to appease their anger."

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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 12:25 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
OH YEAH I AM SURE BRAZIL HAS A TON OF IMMIGRANTS FROM THE CARIBBEAN NOW MACUNAIMA YOUR THE ONE BULLSHITTING ITS NOT LIKE THERE'S A JAMAICAN COMMUNITY IN SAO PAULO,OR A FILIPINO COMMUNITY IN GOIANIA,OR A MEXICAN COMMUNITY IN RIO,OR A SAMOAN COMMUNITY IN SANTA CATARINA,OR A CAMBODIAN COMMUNITY IN BRASILIA,OR A DOMINICAN COMMUNITY IN SANTOS,OR A HAITIAN COMMUNITY IN MANAUS,OR A CUBAN COMMUNITY IN PORTO ALEGRE,OR A PUERTO RICAN COMMUNITY IN NITEROI,OR A NICARAGUAN COMMUNITY IN SAO VICENTE,OR A NIGERIAN COMMUNITY IN NATAL,OR A PANAMANIAN COMMUNITY IN BUZIOS BLACKS FROM THE CARIBBEAN AND AFRICA ARE SMART ENOUGH TO STAY AWAY FROM THE RACIST COUNTRY LIKE BRAZIL THATS WHY MOST OF THEM COME HERE TO AMERICA AND ALOT OF THEM GO TO NEW YORK AND MIAMI WHERE THERE ARE ALOT OF BLACKS FROM THE WEST INDIES MIAMI HAS LITTLE HAITI AND LITTLE HAVANA AND NEW YORK HAS ALOT OF JAMAICANS AND DOMINICANS AND I CANT FORGET PUERTO RICANS SO WHO ARE YOU FOOLING BRAZIL DONT HAVE THE CARIBBEAN FLAVOR IT NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 1:32 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Guest



Anonymous
   
Testing

Total Posts: 211 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 1:37 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
umm...Marqi... I'm a bit confused now - what exactly are you trying to say here? What is the point you're trying to prove? I'd be happy to take a moment to seriously think about what you're saying. You sound so furious, that there's gotta be something you're trying to say here, but I can't quite get what it is... Are you juss trying to say that Brasil sucks and US rocks, or is there something else behind your postings??
Could you please explain?
Thank you.

(ps: an' I'm not making fun of you right now. I just really-really do want to know what's making you post such angry messages)

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Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 2:01 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Yawn.

Once again, MARQUES MULATINHO screams his ignorance to the ether. No one was talking about "communities in Goiania", MULATINHO. We were talking about immigrants in Rio. And while there's no "Jamaican community" in Rio, one really can't find a cohesive Italian or Portuguese community either. Rio's immigrants (and there are many) simply don't organize ethnically for some reason or other.

Of course, Rio has far fewer Nigerian or Jamaican immigrants than NYC. But you claim that there's NONE and that's simply not true.

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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 2:58 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
Ok let me drop the trash out first. Marquesleazy, get over yourself love. You don't have a clue about Latins (Hispanics), Brazilians, or even your proclaimed brother-hood into Blackness . . . I doubt seriously you are even Black, but this is the internet. I'm sure every African-American or even African shudders at reading your words, truly amoronic and you are a LOSER with all caps darling. Catch a clue and move on, because it's clear that you shoot from the ass and not the mind. Now run along I think those are your draws I see hanging from that lampost over there, yes a place of nowhere, which is where your going.

Now, back to the realness. You know Macunaima and Aderianerik bought up some cool points. I honestly dunno what my idea of "democracy" is at this moment. I mean I feel off hand it's freedom of choice, of ideas, and to have similar people who think or feel like me represent me. Of course since I'm not the only beautiful, tall, American Puerto Rican in this world, I'll have to make due with what's given me. But I do feel that with democracy comes downfalls, like me being a teacher, graduated from Yale University (Cumma Sum Laude) and I make less than your first year non-good pick pro-baller. Truly sad, because I teach 2nd graders and I spend more time with these kids than some of their parents do. And to think in a supposed truly "free" society we think so little of our educators. Which is making me think more and more about leaving the American school system.

Anyways it's hard to attach a solid meaning to a word that conjures so many images. The obvious is freedom of choices, to choice and not by force, but even that isn't as concrete as I'd like it to be. Even I know we in America aren't truly free, there are laws that bind us lol, even unforseen ones. Not ones that say "thall shall not kill, or be put in jail" no the less abrasive ones, you know the ones that undermine us daily, like less and less privacy.

Still pondering. . .

Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:10 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
BORICUA YOUR A FUCKIN BITCH WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO TELL ME I AINT BLACK.GO KISS WHITE BRAZILIANS ASSES YOU PIECE OF SHIT.BRAZILIANS AINT EVEN HISPANICS SINCE TO BE HISPANIC YOU HAVE TO SPEAK A LANGUAGE OH I DONT KNOW IF YOU HEARD OF IT ITS CALLED SPANISH.AND BY THE WAY I HAVE I HAVE A HISPANIC COUSIN A BLACK HISPANIC TO BE EXACT AND HIS NAME IS PABLO AND HE'S HALF PANAMANIAN.EVERY AFRICAN AMERICAN I KNOW WHO WENT TO BRAZIL KNOWS HOW RACIST IT IS DOWN THERE A FRIEND OF MINES WENT TO A HOTEL IN SAO PAULO AND HE WAS CONFUSED AS ONE OF THE BAGBOYS GEE I WONDER WHY.WHEN HE WAS ON THE BUS TO SANTOS SOME WHITE LADY SAID OLHA O NEGRO DO CABELO DURO JUST BECAUSE HE HAD A BIG AFRO AND SINCE MY FRIEND UNDERSTOOD A LITTLE BIT OF PORTUGUESE HE CUSSED HER OUT AND RIGHTFULLY SO.I GUESS NOBODY IN BRAZIL IS USED TO BE SEEING A BLACK MAN WITH A BIG ASS AFRO IF YOU SEEN HOUSEPARTY WITH KID N PLAY YOU KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT ANYWAYS HE SAID  EVERYBODY STARED AT HIM LIKE HE WAS A MARTIAN OR SOMETHING WELL WHAT YOU EXPECT FROM A COUNTRY WHERE BLONDE AND BLUE EYED PEOPLES ARE TREATED LIKE GODS EVERY BRAZILIAN WOMAN WANTS TO BE JUST LIKE XUXA BECAUSE SHE REPRESENTS THE EUROPEAN STANDARD OF BEAUTY AND BRAZILIANS SEE BLACK PEOPLE AS UGLY THATS WHY YOU RARELY SEE A BLACK FACE ON BRAZILIAN TELEVISION OR ON A COVER OF A BRAZILIAN MAGAZINE IT JUST SHOWS HOW BRAZILIANS ARE JUST AS RACIST TRENT LOTT OR ANY MEMBER OF THE KLAN OR SKINHEADS

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:34 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
I like this quote by Thomas Paine (a US founding father), I think it is relevant to this discussion about democracy.
"When it shall be said in any country of the world, my poor are happy, neither ignorance or distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars, the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive . . . When these things can be said, then may that country boast its constitution and its government." -- The Rights of Man (1791)
Neither Brazil nor the U.S., can presently say this.

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 8:03 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
To Marque, Your point that racism in Brazil exists has been made.
You speak as if the U.S. is the wonderful haven for blacks, where there is no racism against them. One of every three African-Americans is in prison, on probation or on parole at any one time, one out of every two in the city.
Blacks in the U.S. were seven times more likely to be incarcerated than whites; an estimated 1471 blacks per 100,000 black residents vs. 207 whites per 100,000 white residents were imprisoned.
There is a 2 to 1 ratio of more blacks in prison for drugs than whites. Even though whites outnumber blacks 4 to 1 in the total population of the U.S.. And even though a higher average of whites use drug more than blacks. Actually it is a 7 to 1 ratio of more whites who use drugs than blacks in the U.S., while as said before there two times more blacks in prison than whites for drugs.  
Blacks have a much higher rate of poverty than whites. This is the direct result of racism and classism in the U.S..
My point is...Take the log out of your own eye, before you try to take the speck out of another's.
Take that outrage you have against racism, focus it and fight against it in your own backyard. I'll be right there with you.
You have twice called a woman on this forum a bitch. There is absolutely no call for that shit. I really don't understand the need to throw personal insults at people because you disagree with them. It completely weakens your stance, and closes people off to any good that you may have to say.

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 8:46 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
Jeromy, I feel you on the quote, but as a 23 year old woman, that to me reeks idealism in these times.  I mean some of those things I don't even think my future kids will see in their lifetime. Not to sound unoptimistic, but I can't see no prisons and no poverty. It's like people are too conditioned that I think most would sell off the poor man's freedom for their own. In fact that's what's happening daily in America and I'm sure all over third world countries.  


Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 9:14 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
I KNOW THERE IS MUCH RACISM HERE IN THE U.S BUT THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH BRAZIL IS THAT THEY CLAIM TO BE A RACIAL DEMOCRACY WHEN IT COULDNT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH ATLEAST THE U.S ADMITS THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH RACISM BUT BRAZIL JUST STRAIGHT OUT DENIES IT

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 9:26 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
Boricua, I understand your feeling. Yes this is idealistic. Great deeds are built on great ideas. This is goal to be acheived. If enough people united and unwaveringly fought to accomplish this. It could happen, not in a day, not in a year, maybe not even in a generation or two, but it could happen. Unity, hard work, patience, and perseverance. Maybe your children want see this, but maybe their children will. I know it sounds cheesy and I know it reeks of idealism, but I beleive that enough people united will never fail.

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Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 9:34 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
Ahh...suddenly I feel much better than before - at least I think I got Marqi's point this time (You see, it only takes some patience and desire to look and listen). even though he goes around yellin' and insulting people, he's trying to say something with it...
Honestly, I don't really know exactly how bad the racism situation is in Brasil, because the image that has been given to me was aslways that there's not much problem at all...that some little tensions exist here and there, but that most inequalities between the black and the white come from reasons other than just lame hatred or prejudice against black people. So what is it really? Does Marqi have a point in what he says? Is the situation really so much worse than what it is claimed to be? When I read about the civil rights movement in US, I was told multiple times that nothing like that happened in Brasil, because there was no need for it; because everything was good enuff there.
I've only been in Brasil very briefly, and I mostly know of life there from what my firiends tell me (and none of them are black)..I know that the black people are more often poor than the white ones and so on, but I never really heard that there was significant amounts of direct discrimination and prejudice. Anybody wanna tell me more? (anybody else than Marqi; i think he's a bit biased). I'd be happy to hear how close is the real situation to what Marqi talks about, and how close is it to the pretty image often created in contrast to the US.


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Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 9:55 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
No offense Krista and to anyone else, but I'd really like for this topic not go off. again There is a "Blacks in Brazil" topic that has well over what 100 responses is a great place for you to read about race relations period from Blacks in Brazil to America. In fact Macunaima, Aderianerik, and several guest posters make some good points, although last I check no Afro-Brazilian (or someone saying they were) had responded. I basically just read and stood to the side. Seeing as how I knew nothing about the entire topic, that being Blacks and Brazil. I'm not sure if I eventually added my opinion. I may have. Either way might want to start there.

Now Jeromy, I hear you and it's good to want those things. It's one think to talk a good game (not saying you are or you per se) but how does one assemble this type of movement, when everyone has a different agenda? I mean to say " no prisons" is kinda a big leap into a powerful sea. I mean honestly. To even say "no poverty" is an ever bigger leap. Once you take power away from a few and give it back to everyone, then what happens? I mean the few who hold power won't allow such an easy thing to happen. It's just a fact to me that these are ideals that need tweaking. We'd have to rid the entire human mind of past conditions to achieve the "no prisons" and "freedom for all" stance. I mean not to mention world leaders who base their way of living by their religion and so on.

(Edited by Boricua at 10:29 pm on Feb. 17, 2003)

Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 10:11 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
yes, Boricua, you're right...I'm juss floating off as usual. so i'll go and see the blacks in brasil forum and hope i'll find some useful stuff there (i must admit, i didn't read it too often, because i was intimidated by the amount and the length of the postings there).



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Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 10:29 pm on Feb. 17, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
Your opening up a very big can of worms.
I will answer that a little at a time. First of all let me throw some statistics out. It will not make sense at first. It will become clear the next post I write. I need to go to sleep.
All these numbers are for industrialized nations.
Percentage of People Living in Poverty
U.S. 25%
Germany 6.8%
France 6.5%
Japan 2.3%

Percentage of population in prison
U.S. 700 per 100,000
Canada 110 per 100,000
European Average 85 per 100,000
Japan 25 per 100,000

Homicides
U.S. 37.2 per 100,000
Italy 4.3
Canada/France 0.9
Japan 0.5

The Third World average is closer to the U.S. numbers than the rest. In some case more, in some cases less.
My point will apply to Brazil as well.

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Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 1:52 am on Feb. 18, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
YEAH BUT ALOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE POOR BY AMERICAN STANDARDS ARE NOT REALLY POOR BY THIRD WORLD STANDARDS I MEAN FOR EXAMPLE I HAVE BEEN TO HAITI AND THEIR GHETTOS MAKE OUR GHETTOS LOOK LIKE BEVERLY HILLS NO B.S.I MEAN THE GOVERNMENT HELPS ALOT OF "POOR" AMERICANS BY GIVING THEM WELFARE AND FOOD STAMPS SOMETHING MOST POOR PEOPLE LIVING IN OTHER COUNTRIES DONT HAVE THE LUXURY OF HAVING. NOW ON TO THE HOMICIDE RATES LETS TAKE CUBA FOR EXAMPLE THE VIOLENCE AND CRIME RATE THERE IS VERY LOW BY THIRD WORLD STANDARDS AND HELL EVEN COMPARED TO THE DEVELOPED FIRST WORLD NATIONS ITS STILL VERY LOW AND WOULD PUT COUNTRIES LIKE ENGLAND AND THE U.S TO SHAME.I DONT KNOW WHAT CASTRO IS DOING TO KEEP THE LOW CRIME AND HOMICIDE RATE THERE BUT HE'S DOING A GOOD JOB OF IT AND OTHER COUNTRIES SHOULD TAKE A LESSON OR TWO FROM MR.FIDEL

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 2:06 am on Feb. 18, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
MY FRIEND WHO WAS IN SAO PAULO ALSO SAID THEM FAVELAS MAKE  OUR PROJECTS LOOK LIKE BEVERLY HILLS OR THE HAMPTONS

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 2:08 pm on Feb. 18, 2003 | IP
fernandobn


Junior Member
   
I cannot visualize what MARQUES is refering to, we  are way over this skin color issue! I think and I can feel that in Brazil today the problems we deal is more related to the surviving thing. I have related all my life with people with all kinds of skin colors and I never heard anybody complaining about that. Of course you see some racism going on, but this is against law! In the summer you see people eager to get their skin tanned to the point that you say I am more black than you are and feel good about it! And Marques we do not have necessity to close ourselves in ghetos. You see more wealthy people closed themselves in communities, but not because of their skin color.

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Fernando B.

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 4:29 pm on Feb. 18, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
I've been in favelas and I've been in projects and all I can say is that I'd rather live in Rocinha than most projects I've seen in the U.S. But the Complexo do alemão and Maré beat any project I've ever seen, hands down, for nastiness.

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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 4:45 pm on Feb. 18, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
JUST CAUSE YOU HAVE A TAN IT DONT MEAN NOTHING WHEN SUMMER ENDS YOUR TAN WILL BE GONE NOW ME MY TAN IS SKIN DEEP SINCE I WAS BORN WITH IT AND I WILL SPORT IT MY WHOLE LIFE REGARDLESS OF WHAT SEASON IT IS.I AM NATURALLY BROWN SKINNED NO TANNING PARLOR NEEDED FOR ME CAN YOU SAY THE SAME THANG FOR YOURSELF

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 6:03 pm on Feb. 18, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
Hmm oddly enough Macunaima, I'm going to have to (sadly) agree with Marquekidcapri on this one, well slightly.

I visited a favela while in Brazil last August with a group of student teachers, it was and odd thing to do, and extremely scary for me. Not because I had never seen gangbangers or the "ghetto", cause I have, but this wasn't my turf. Anyways I'd have to say the projects in NYC, which by the way has several all over, some only blocks away from or an avenue away from the ritzy parts of the city. Anyways I can walk thru the projects in NYC, I can go in them, ride the elevators and still not have as much fear as I experienced in the favela that shit was true and too gangsta for me. I was very happy indeed to see the tall ass Frederick Douglas buildings down the block from my brownstone. I was just silly happy because I've never been robbed, never been mugged, raped, or even accusted by men in the projects. Now while no one bothered me per se, several of the students were robbed and one almost raped, it was something that turned me off from visiting any part of Brazil that didn't fit the "postcard" (every country has one) crap they sell while still on my mini vacation slash business trip.

Now of course before I get beat on verbally I do know that me being a tourist had more to do with my fear than anything else, but I was scared nonetheless. No offense to Brazil because I still want to teach there and I'm smart enough to know it was one time, one experience, and I went to a place where what else should I have expected, so believe me it's not a complaint more of an observation. I'd take the projects in America over the ONE and again ONE I visited in Brazil.

I just feel the projects I've visited from London, South Africa, NYC, Miami, hell even Compton wasn't so bad lol, I even got to chat with some crips and bloods and came out alive. I don't think the average American knows real gangsta-ism until they've visited a place that thrives off it daily.

I'll have to find a way to enter pictures of my trip to Brazil, it was an enlightening experience to say the least.

Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 11:04 pm on Feb. 18, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
ANOTHER GOOD THANG ABOUT THE PROJECTS IS THAT YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE MUD SLIDES THAT OFTEN HAPPEN IN THEM RIO FAVELAS.THE BRAZILIAN FAVELAS THAT I HAVE SEEN ON TV LOOKS JUST LIKE THE SHANTYTOWNS  THAT I ACTUALLY SAW WHILE VISITING HAITI SO YOU KNOW THAT CANT BE A GOOD THANG. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE WAS THE RACIAL MAKEUP OF THE PEOPLE BUT THE ENVIRONMENT LOOKED SIMILIAR.ATLEAST NOBODY IN THE PROJECTS LIVES IN WOODEN SHACKS AND WE TO HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A MUDSLIDE LIVING DESTROYING IT.YOU GOTTA BE CRAZY TO PREFER LIVING IN A WOODEN SHACK OVER PROJECT BUILDING.I PROBABLY KNOW WHY MACUNAIMA WOULD PREFER LIVING IN A FAVELA INSTEAD OF THE PROJECTS BECAUSE IN THE PROJECTS HE WOULD STICK OUT LIKE A SOAR THUMB BECAUSE HE'S WHITE SO HE WOULD BEIN AN UNCOMFORTABLE SITUATION OF NOT BEING AROUND PEOPLE THAT LOOK LIKE HIM BUT IN A FAVELA I THERE IS ALOT OF POOR WHITES LIVING IN THEM SO MACUNAIMA WOULDNT BE SINGLED OUT BECAUSE HE'S WHITE SINCE THERE ARE PLENTY OF WHITE FAVELADOS.I USED TO LIVE IN THE PROJECTS AND THE ONLY TIME YOU SAW A WHITE PERSON THERE IS WHEN THEY ARE WEARING A BLUE SUIT AND A BADGE.BUT IN A BRAZILIAN FAVELA I AM SURE THERE ARE PLENTY OF BLONDE AND BLUE EYED PEOPLE LIVING IN THEM SINCE IN BRAZIL THERE IS NO SUCH THANG AS A BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD OR A WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD BUT I DOUBT YOU WOULD SEE MANY BLACK FACES LIVING IN MORUMBI

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 12:24 am on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
BORICUA WHEN YOU WERE IN MIAMI DID YOU GO TO OCKA LAPA AND WHEN YOU WERE IN LONDON DID YOU GO TO BRIXTON.ANYWAYS WHAT PART OF COMPTON WERE YOU IN CAUSE I GOTTA COUSIN LIVING IN THE EASTSIDE OF THE CPT

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 12:35 am on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
fernandobn


Junior Member
   
MARQUES what I am trying to say is that I rarely see the racism in Brazil that you so enphasize! In 42 years living in Brazil, most part in Rio, my experience is that when any kind of racism happens people from different backgrounds and skin colors step forward and take the  victim side, I saw this happening many times, cause the crowd so mixed skin can bust you right on the spot. I am not trying to say that do not exist, but you do not see that separation clearly seen in other places. One thing you see is the discrimination of people over the hill in the work market in Brazil, LOL. I agree that favelas are nasty there, but when they say to the favelados that they are going to put them in a project house on the suburbs, nobody wants to go there!

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Fernando B.

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 1:59 am on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
To Boricua,
I want to finish my response to your post yesterday. This will be a little off the subject of cultural differences, but it will led to a point that will focus on that in later posts. By the way I was falling asleep, so this a continuation of the last post I made.
Some more stats, and I will make sense and make my point based on these seemingly random facts.
Infant Mortality Rate per 100,000:
U.S. 6.76 (highest)
Japan 3.88
France 3.79
Sweden 3.47 (lowest)

Life Expectancy
U.S. 77.12 (lowest)
France 78.46
Canada 79.3
Japan 80.20 (highest)

Literacy rates
Finland & Norway 100% (highest)
France, Canada, & Japan 99%
U.S. 98% (lowest)

Divorce rates
U.S. 4.95 (highest)
Sweden 2.79
Japan 0.62 (lowest)
This is all stats for industrial nations and not third world.
So the U.S. has the worst average of all industrialized nations in homicides, imprisonment, poverty, life expectancy, infant mortality, literacy, divorce as well in others I haven't mentioned such as drug abuse, obesity, eating disorders, ignorance of history and geography, sex addiction, consumption of resources and many more.
What is the difference between say Japan, Canada, France, and Sweden and the U.S. and Brazil. The difference is that these four countries can be classified as social democracies. Corporations do not rule their countries. They allow corporations to function, but they restrict them. Corporations are not allowed to pay their employees whatever they want, and their not allowed to charge whatever they want. They are held accountable, whereas in the U.S. they are allowed the freedom to do whatever the hell they want with the government's backing (Actually when George Bush speaks of freedom this is what he means)
The rule of the day is not globalization, neo-liberalism or the free market.
The government is held responsible to take care of it's people. I wrote more about this and will write more on this in the World Bank post.
Their government represents their people not executives of corporations, which makes them a true democracy. In the U.S. and Brazil, it is not government for the people by the people, it is for the corporations and the rich by the corporations and the rich.
They have a form of socialism. Which Marque made a very good point. Cuba virtually has no street crime. It has the lowest infant mortality rate in Latin America at 7.39 in comparison to Brazil at 36.96, the highest literacy rate at 96% in comparison to Brazil at 83%, and in life expectancy at 76.71 in comparison to Brazil 62.94. I don't support everything Fidel does. Cuba is no paradise, but if a peasant, in El Salvador, in Guatemala, and even in Brazil woke up in Cuba, he would of think he died and went to heaven, (at least in the past).
What is the difference, Cuba is not ruled by the free market. It has not privatized it's natural resources. It's government considers itself responsible to take care of the needs of it's people. It is a socialist country.

So not only is the Thomas Paine quote I posted earlier possible, it is already taking place, at least to some degree in other nations.
What has to happen is that all the anti-globalization and social justice groups in the U.S., and the Third World need to join together in a united effort to bring down this system of oppression . We saw this in Seattle, and more recently in Porto Allegre, Brazil at the World Social Forum. You can see victories, the election of Lula and the Landless Workers Movement in Brazil being one of them. This movement is only beginning and is picking up momentum.
As far as fighting the few. We are many and they are few. They need us more than we need them.
The problem is many people are ignorant of these things, the solution is to educate and to unite.
At least that is my opinion.


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Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 2:43 am on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
To Boricua and Marqueseazy.
You know...The Ghetto, the Hood, or the projects may or may not be as bad as the favelas, but if things keep going on in the U.S. as they are presently are, they will be and could become even worse.
In my opinion we got whole a lot shit in our own backyard to clean up, before we can even think of cleaning up someone elses.

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Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 3:13 am on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Well, the projects I knew were also back in the 1980s, so things may have gotten a tad better. My point was, however, that all favelas (and projects) are certainly not alike. You guys use the term as if it were generic, but there actually some very cool favelas in Rio and then there are some hell holes.

A question, Boricua: when you went to visit your favela, did you guys just walk in or did someone take you? That's a major difference right there. Strangers are not welcome in most favelas I know, especially if they look middle class.

Finally, there are some working class neighborhoods here in Rio that are worse off than most favelas. I should mention here that Cidade de Deus isn't even properly a favela. AFAIK, that land isn't even squatted. It's a housing project that overflowed its boundaries.

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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 3:56 am on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
Gawd I wish I could be here during the day, always some yummy debates.

Jeromy, thanks for the addendum, and the numbers--BUT I rarely go on numbers from anyone, simply because they can always be skewed to fit any agenda. Now with that said, I don't doubt that movements happened and are happening, but again the idea in my most humble opinion is antiquated and too grandiose.  For my generation it is, and I am only 23, educated, intelligent, and full of enthusiam and ready to fight for something I can actually see used today. But that's me truly it's not to represent my entire generation, but I'd like for once for things to include reality based ideas. That to me is the only way we can move forward and help the next generation. For once I'd like to see ideas presented with the children in mind

Now to your next comment Jeromy, I don't know if you were implying that I (and gawd should I say Marquekidcapri) were trying to clean-up others backyards. I was merely making an observation. I don't do much cleaning, but when I do it's not just my own house. Sometimes I do venture into other folk yards, just who I am--and I can't see myself being that selfish. Now no matter how this world goes, havoc can be reeked even in the suburbs. And when you say "it will get worst" I'm wondering have you lived in the "ghettos" ? Or are you relying heavily on news accounts and or numbers. These things are important to me when someone makes a comment. I'll await your reponse.

Now Marque, I can't believe you'd like to talk to me . . .ya know THE BITCH, lol. But I'll indulge you. Yes I visited Opa Locka, not Oka Locka, Overtown, Brownsville, Little Havana, Little Haiti, Little Brazil, Pokenbean, and there is another I visited but the name escapes me. I don't remember what part of Compton I was in, but I was there for 2 weeks, along with three other Yale journalist students doing a story. It was all very interesting and scary as hell, the scariest place, but not the worst.

Macunaima, I don't know who "you guys" your reffering to, but I made it very clear that compared to that ONE favela, the projects/ghettos/hood etc I've been in that topped them all.

To answer your other question, we went in with two people who lived within that favela. We didn't randomly run into it, we were supposedly prepared and armed with two people who lived there. I mean shit happens and I blame no one and if I were better informed or had a different guide etc, I'd be tempted to enter another one. But my visit into that one soured me from ever entering another one. I'm sure many factors took place with us. I just never stuck around to get what was up lol. But again I am set to revisit Brazil over the American summer, so we shall see. I'm tainted but not turned-off.

And the "ghettos" are all subjective, people at one point made NYC projects out to be the most ruthless BUT that is far from the truth, so I'm more than sure not ALL favelas in Brazil are as bad as the one my fellow classmates and I entered.

(Edited by Boricua at 7:20 pm on Feb. 19, 2003)

Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:11 pm on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
I MESSED UP I MET TO SAY OPA LOCKA

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:36 pm on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
No problem Marqueseazy, oh and that other part of Miami was Liberty City.


Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:59 pm on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
I lived in mostly public housing as a child. I had a ministry and worked in the projects for 6 years. This included working with children. For three years at least once a week sometimes more, me and a friend of mind took a group of about 10 black youth between the ages of 12-15 from the most violent project in Atlanta (McDaniel Glenn), to do different activities.
We worked to get men off the streets, using combination of different things. Men who went through our program, were provided a residence, drug rehab. They were trained how to start their own business. They were given education, amongst many other things.
I could go on and on, about the various different ways I have worked in the projects. Needless to say I am doing a little more than relying on news accounts and or numbers. I just am not closed minded to numbers and news accounts to understand a problem and how to tackle it.
Here is my angle. I have been interested in what causes poverty and how to work end it. I really have a problem with children dying of malnourishment or curable diseases, or generally someone not having opportunities to housing, food, health care, education, and other necessities. In my work I have come to this conclusion. A quote by Susan George explains it best.
"At this point you are entitled to ask whether every case of hunger truly implies a willful violation of the right to food. It’s true that acts of God, like drought and flood or population pressures can aggravate hunger. But climatic extremes and environmental destruction can be traced to human action or inaction. Pushing this statement to the limits , I will even say that there are no ecological problems, only the social and political problems that invariable underlie and cause ecological damage…wherever and whenever hunger occurs, I’m convinced that human agencies and agents are at work; that hunger is basically a reflection of inequality at the local, national, and international levels. This is why ethically speaking, the correct response to hunger and the cardinal virtue, we need to respond to it. Is justice not charity."
I also like this one by Padre Carlos Mujica
"If you give me a fish, you have feed me for a day. If you teach me to fish, then you have fed me until the river is contaminated or the shore line seized for development. But if you teach me to organize, then whatever the challenge I can join together with my peers and we will fashion our own solution."
This is what Martin Luther King did. (In my opinion the greatest leader in U.S. history)
As far as the favelas. Why don't we talk about the U.S. and it's multi-nationals exploitation of the land, labor, and resources of Third World Countries, that is a major contributor of to their poverty. But whoops, can't do that. That would require some numbers and news accounts.    


 


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Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 10:34 pm on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
Uhh Ok. You like numbers, news accounts, and quotes. Do what works for you. I don't rely wholely on these things. I tend to let my stance come thru rather than deconstruct others to fit mine.

I prefer other things. With that said you can speak about anything you want. My interest when I come to this board rarely lie in the US, it actually does lie in Brazil.

Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 11:19 pm on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
Boricua,
I tend to let my stance come thru rather than deconstruct others to fit mine.
I hope you didn't get the impression that I was trying to deconstruct you. I meant no disrespect.
You said "My interest when I come to this board rarely lie in the US, it actually does lie in Brazil."
Mine does too.
I need to apoligize to Brazilians on this board, for focusing on the U.S. so much. I wanted to convey the social problems that lie in the U.S., because I think they are similar in Brazil, hoping to get a response back from Brazilians on the social conditions there.
I feel uncomfortable about writing about social conditions in Brazil. I'm afraid that I would be just another American who tells the world their problems while not even dealing with our own.  



Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 11:44 pm on Feb. 19, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
I want to change the subject.
I want to ask someone in Brazil. How prevalent is it for Brazilian women to dye their hair blonde. If seen this a lot with Brazilians and other Latinas. Is this a result of trying to live up to a Hollywood ideal of beauty. Or are other factors contributors  
I love dark hair and dark skin, it really throws me off when a Latina dyes their hair blonde.

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 1:10 am on Feb. 20, 2003 | IP
 

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