Brazzil Forum
Message Board
» back to brazzil.com
Register | Profile | Log-in | Lost Password | Active Users | Help | Search

» Welcome Brazzil: Log out | Messenger | Check New Posts | Mark all posts as read

    Brazzil Forum
    General
        Cultural Differences
Mark all forum posts as read   [ help ]
» Your last visit to this forum was: Mar. 25, 2003 - 6:12pm «

Topic Jump
<< Back Next >>
Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 3 ]
Forum moderated by: No One
 

 
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
I want to explore the topic of cultural differences between the U.S. and Brazil. I have been enriched by my exposure to Brazillian culture. It have learned alot about life from my brasillian friends and former girlfriends.
I want to point out the differences I have noticed that I have learned from.
One major difference is that Brazilians seem to have better understanding of community and the importance of family and friends. I have noticed that if you have some kind of problem, that you are more than likely to get help from friends in brazillian culture than in U.S..
U.S. culture tends to emphazise independece or what I call the cult of individualism.
I've heard Brasillians say that they may not have money for other things, but always have time for a party. In other words they always look for an excuse to spend time with their friends and family. In American culture isolation and lonliness is major problem.
As far as partying. I think that they do it the best. They don't go to extremes with excessvie drunkness, nor or they boring and rigid. With gringos, it seems to be one or the other. To understand what I mean by excessive see the 'Here we come' post started by Brent. I've known a hundred gringos like that, I have known not one brazillian like this.
It also seems that many gringos are so busy making a living that have forgot to how to really live. They're/We're too busy too live.
As far as loves goes. Brasillians seem to be more affectionate, and touch and kiss a lot more than Americanos. When making love Brasillians take their time, where as Americans seem to be in rush. This is probally why Brasillians have the reputation of being sex crazed. The reality is I have seen Americanas be more loose and more promicious than Brasillians on average. With Americanos, sex is the same as partying you or either or. Either excessive and loose or rigid and cold. Brasillians don't seem to be either. But when they make love they make love, they take their time and when they have a relationship they make love more often than gringo couples. Frankly after dating Brazillians and other latinos, it is hard to date anything else.
Of course I am not saying all Brazillians are exactly the same, I am talking about what is average.

-----
Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 2:16 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
umm... I've met quite a few Brasilians who don't fit into this description, but as they say - the example confirms the rule. But in total, I'd say I quite agree with you... You see, the thing is that Brasilians haven't quite drowned into this consumer culture yet. They haven't learned yet this cult of money and the need to have more and more and more...things. It's kind of nice... I hope it'll stay like that. Having experienced more than just one or two different cultures, I must say the latinos/latinas/brasilians have been the best. (ps: and I like their culture of touch. on the contrary of that, north europeans hardly even hug...it's kind of cold and impersonal up there)

-----
Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 2:33 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Adrianerik


Newbie
   
American culture?  ]

Okayyyy.......

America is a pluralistic country.  What applies in the Southeast may not apply in the Southwest may not apply in the East versus the Bible Belt.

What applies in the Urban areas may not apply in the rural areas.

What applies in Harlem may not apply on the upper East Side.

It is very difficult to speak of a 'national' American culture.

What applies in Chinatown may not apply in Little Italy.

Okay....you get the point.

Peace

Total Posts: 50 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 3:11 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
To Adrian
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you are pointing out the obvious. Though it is an excellent and worthy point. It might not be at all obvious to those who's only exposure to the U.S. is the U.S. corporate media, and the tourists who come to their country.
I was talking about my own personal experience. I am from Atlanta. Most of my American friends are white middle upperclass. I also have many black middle class friends. Though they are very different from my white friends. Friendship, partyingng, and dating with Southern blacks is actually more similar to how I described my experience with Brazillians and other lationos.
So to clarify. I am speaking of the difference between my white anglo middle upper class friends, and Brazillian ones.

-----
Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 3:41 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Adam


Junior Member
   
I try to stay away from generalizing....but one thing Ive noticed in Brazilians (from 1 year of experience) is an appreciation for life. As for middle-upper class americans, (from 22 years of experience) Ive only noticed this in 1- 2.

-----
Tchau

Total Posts: 64 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 4:17 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Hmmm.

Well, as much as it is a stereotype, I'd have to say that on the average, Brazilians do seem to be more concerned about family than Americans.

Note that I said "average". Your mileage may vary. Widely.

Adrian makes a valuable point, but I'd also like to modify it: both Brazil and the States are highly pluralistic cultures. The States is just more open about seeing itself in that kind of light...

As for "gringo", I presume you're aware that Brazilians call all foreigners "gringos", Jeromy? They even call Argentinians and Mozambiqueans "gringos".

Finally, I really, really doubt your comments re:sex. I do not think that Brazilian men are, on the whole, more tender or considerate lovers than American men. This is based on many conversations I've had with women and gays. As for the women... I really don't see too much difference.

One difference is that Americans - again, on the average - seem to be a lot more embarassed about sex and sensuality than Brazilians. PDA is a no-no in most places in the States. Here, it's a given in most places.

Finally, re: friendship. While I think that Brazilians are more likely to be friendly to a stranger, I also think that unless one knows someone, one can be AWFULLY lonely in Brazil. Many times gringos mistake Brazilian cordiallity for friendship. Are you sure you are not doing this Jeromy?

-----
Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 5:43 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
To Macunaima
This is simply been my experience. It has never been apart of my studies. I wrote the post more to get other peoples perspective on this, than to state what is an absolute truth.
As far as sex goes. I never asked what the men do. I have no idea, but in my experience Brazilian women as well as other Latinos (at least the ones I have been with) are more responsive to touching, and kissing for longer periods of time.
I have seen studies that the average Brazilian has sex for longer periods of time than Americanos. My experience has taught me the same, but I have not certainly have had sex with a large percentage of Brazilian women to confirm this.
I understand what you are saying about being cordial. No I am not confusing the two. Again this is my experience and not something I have studied and are stating as fact.
I did think gringo meant someone from the U.S.. I hope I haven't used that wrongly before. Thank you for pointing this out. I stand corrected.  


-----
Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 8:20 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
"I have seen studies that the average Brazilian has sex for longer periods of time than Americanos."

I would love to see that study. Sounds like an "instapoll" to me. Most reputable studies I've seen, carried out by social scientists and not journalists, indicate that most Brazilians seem to be pretty screwed up about sex.

I remember a few years ago when Newsweek did a poll on global sex attitudes and concluded that Brazilians were the most sexually well-adjusted people in the world. How did they reach that conclusion? Simple: they interviewed about 5000 random Brazilians, asking them a half dozen questions along the lines of "Are you satisfied with your sex life" and "How often do you have orgasms during sex"?

This was a great example of a nonsense poll based upon fundamental misunderstandings of a country's sexual culture. I can't think of one Brazilian I know, male or female who, when approached with a question like that by a stranger in the street for an "official" poll, wouldn't respond with "My sex life's great!" One simply doesn't talk about one's sexual problems with strangers here and given the overwhelming culture of public sensuality and machismo/a, for one to admit to having sexual difficulties would be tantamount to admitting that one isn't a "real" man or woman.

So be very careful with "studies" that say stuff like this. You need to know how they were done and what questions were asked before you can judge their probable veracity.

I could very easily see some reporter asking a Brazilian in the street how long they have sex and getting the answer "All night long!" And if he asked the men about penis size, he'd probably find out that 90 percent of Brazilian males top 25 centimeters, too...

Re: study and experience, I think one needs to do both. I've lived here for fifteen years, but that alone hasn't been enough to get rid of some common stereotypes in my head. Only study, combined with that experience, has done that.

-----
Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 4:16 am on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
Pedro


Newbie
   
I agree that brazilians (in fact, all latinos) tend to SHOW affection more intensely, but that doesn´t mean that they FEEL it more intensely - it is just mise-en-scéne. An american may show affection more seldom, but maybe he/she is more sincere.

And Brazil is also a pluralistic country, maybe even more than USA. Whatever one may think of a group of brazilians he/she has met, does not necessarily apply to other groups or regions. I consider this brazilian-easy-going image too "coastal". It is true for Rio, Bahia, Fortaleza, but not so for Minas Gerais, São Paulo, RS, the countryside (in fact, most of Brazil). But since most americans come to Brazil for fun (and not for business or other purposes) and they usually head to coastal cities, one can easily understand why they keep such stereotypes.

About how long brazilians have sex, does it include preludes or only the sexual intercourse? I don´t see any importance in this topic.



Total Posts: 17 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:03 am on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
Guest



Anonymous
   
This is a very interesting topic. I agree with several points being made here. But one can't avoid sweeping generalizations with these type of discussions.

I will say as a Harlemnite, tha the "upper eastside" can be Spanish Harlem, in fact Harlems starts at 100th street exactly on both ends. Now since I live on the "westside" where all the Black folks (plenty of whites are moving here since the WTC went down) I will say there is a helluva lot difference between say Latins in Spanish Harlem and the Blacks in Harlem USA (affectionatly termed). And it's all cultural from where I stand. I mean I certainly can't go to Del Barrios and start expecting the Latin women to kiss me, in fact New Yorkers on a whole are different people lol. A culture within subcultures. Perhaps the hustle and bustle. I can walk down 125th street all the way to 3rd avenue and discover several different cultures going on all at once from Black, to African (Ethiopia, Somalia, Nigeria, not to mention the Africans who lived in Germany and speak German or French), Latins, Arabic, Jewish and so on. It's truly amazing, I'd like to think that other places should be like this. It's beautiful to witness if you stop for a second and just watch, I mean from the languages to the gestures. Everyone is so animated in their own way.

Oh and to kinda experience Brazil in "Little Brazil" in NYC on 46th street, is amazing. My wife loves that fucking street man. I can't wait to head to Brazil in a few weeks maybe then I can make a better post.

I will say my Brazilian wife is no slouch, she will knock my ass out, intense she can be lol.
---------

Darren

Total Posts: 211 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 7:41 am on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
DAMN RIGHT THE U.S IS A PLURALISTIC COUNTRY WAY MORE SO THEN BRAZIL SINCE IN THE U.S EVERY ETHNIC GROUP HAS THEIR OWN CULTURE,TRADITION,FOOD,AND RELIGION CAN YOU SAY  THAT ABOUT BRAZIL NO.A BLACK FAMILY LIVING IN MISSSSIPPI IS GONNA BE VERY CULTURALLY DIFFERENT FROM A WHITE FAMILY LIVING IN IDAHO OR AN ASIAN FAMILY LIVING IN SAN FRANCISCO.ALSO IN THE U.S A BLACK CHURCH IS WAY DIFFERENT THEN A WHITE CHURCH,AN ASIAN CHURCH,OR A HISPANIC CHURCH.BLACKS TEND TO GO TO BAPTIST CHURCHES WHILE THE HISPANICS GO TO CATHOLIC CHURCHES.ALOT OF TIMES BLACKS AND WHITES DONT EVEN SPEAK THE SAME ENGLISH SINCE BLACKS NO MORE SLANG WORDS THAT WHITES WOULDNT EVEN BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND AND THATS CALLED EBONICS.EVERY ETHNIC GROUP IN AMERICA ARE TOO CULTURALLY DIFFERENT FROM EACH OTHER THATS WHY THE U.S IS SO PLURALISTIC.

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 10:18 am on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
MARQUESEAZY - have you ever been to brasil? I mean, to more than one part of brasil...

-----
Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 1:45 pm on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
MARQUE MULATINHO has never been to Brazil. Nor, apparently, has he read much about Brazil. His sum total of knowledge concerning things Brazilian comes from a few comments made to n]him by a friend who once visited São Paulo on a bizniz trip.

It's a big question why MARQUE MULATINHO even chooses to hang out here. Probably because this is the only site on the 'net where he can get away with his bad-ass black nationalist impersonation without having half the other posters rolling on the ground in hysterical convulsions.

-----
Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 2:47 pm on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
HOW IN THE HELL AM I A MULATTO WHEN BOTH OF MY PARENTS ARE BLACK YOU IDIOT I SAID MY GRANDMOTHER IS WHITE NOT MY MOTHER SO THAT MEANS I AM ONLY A QUARTER WHITE AND MY PREDOMINANT GENE IS 75% BLACK.MY MOTHER IS BIRACIAL BUT SHE PROUDLY PROCLAIMS TO BE BLACK

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 3:39 pm on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
does anybody even care what you are??!!?!?

-----
Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 6:17 pm on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
Ze


Junior Member
   
Somebody seems to hate himself and his ancestry, "eu dou um doce para quem acertar".

Total Posts: 93 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 6:25 pm on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Calm down, MARQUE MULATINHO. We like you anyway.

-----
Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:32 pm on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
I AM GLAD THAT THE U.S NEVER ADOPTED MULATTO AS AN OFFICIAL RACE CATEGORY LIKE BRAZIL DID THATS WHY AMERICA IS SO GREAT CAUSE EVERYBODY IN AMERICA KNOWS WHAT RACE THEY BELONG TO UNLIKE THE CONFUSED MULATTOES OF BRAZIL

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 9:00 pm on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
Marques - perhaps it is you who is the biggest racist of all in here...trying to divide everyone strictly into black and white and giving no credit to people who see themselves as a beautiful mix of the two. Your last posting sounds like you're looking down on mulatos as if they were not worth much anything compared to your "75% black gene".

-----
Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 9:15 pm on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
Ze


Junior Member
   
It is such an ugly thing to see someone that has no self respect.

Total Posts: 93 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 10:22 pm on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Yeah, MARQUE MULATINHO. You should show more solidarity with your people.

There's no reason for you to be ashamed just because you're mixed.

-----
Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 3:45 am on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
ELEGANTGENT



Junior Member
   
@ mac, don't knock people for trying to show solidarity with their people, hypocrit. you don't tell me what the jack i am.

Total Posts: 53 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 1:44 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
BRAZILIAN CULTURE IDOLIZES BLONDE HAIRED AND BLUE EYED PEOPLE EVEN MORE SO THEN AMERICAN CULTURE THATS WHY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE JAPANESE BRAZIL ONLY LETS EUROPEANS IMMIGRATE TO BRAZIL UNLIKE THE U.S WHO HAS PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND NOT JUST EUROPEANS BUT ALSO NONWHITE IMMIGRANTS LIKE THE DOMINICANS, MEXICANS, FILIPINOS, VIETNAMESE, PUERTO RICANS, SALVADORIANS, JAMAICANS, CUBANS, HAITIANS, SAMOANS, CAMBODIANS, NICARAGUANS, WEST INDIANS, WEST AFRICANS, AND MANY OTHER IMMIGRANTS OF NONWHITE ANCESTRY YOU CAN THINK OF SO AMERICA DOSENT LIMIT ITSELF TO WHITE EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS LIKE BRAZIL DOES

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 3:39 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
Adam


Junior Member
   
Does anyone notice that as soon as Marqueseasy posts, the topic kinda fades away and people focus more on him than the topic?

-----
Tchau

Total Posts: 64 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 7:49 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
Yeah...can we please get back to the discussion. I don't know Marque. It just was interested in cultural differences between the U.S. and Brasil. What is myth and what is reality.

-----
Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 8:15 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
THE REALITY IS THE U.S HAS WAY MORE IMMIGRANTS THEN BRAZIL AND WAY MORE NONWHITE IMMIGRANTS THEN BRAZIL TOO SO ITS REALITY AND NOT MYTH.L.A HAS A LARGE MEXICAN COMMUNITY AND SO DOES TEXAS, FLORIDA GOT A LARGE CUBAN AND HAITIAN AND WEST INDIAN COMMUNITY AND SO DOES NEW YORK WITH THE DOMINICANS,PUERTO RICANS,AND ITALIANS.IN L.A IN THE BLACK COMMUNITIES ALOT OF THE SHOPS ARE KOREAN OWNED AND SAN FRANCISCO HAS A LARGE CHINESE COMMUNITY THAT BEING CHINATOWN.IF YOU GO TO WASHINGTON HEIGHTS IN NEW YORK AND YOU THINK YOUR IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC.IN MANY OF THE MAJOR CITIES IN AMERICA WHITES ARE BEING OUTNUMBERED BY THE MINORITYS IN SAN FRANCISCO ASIANS NOW OUTNUMBER WHITES AND IF YOU CROSS THE BAYBRIDGE AND INTO OAKLAND BLACKS OUTNUMBER THE WHITES THATS WHY I LOVE MY COUNTRY BECAUSE YOU GET TO INTERACT WITH PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD WITHOUT EVEN LEAVING THE COUNTRY EVEN WHEN IWAS IN HIGH SCHOOL IT WAS VERY MIXED CAUSE THERE WERE PEOPLE OF ALL NATIONALITIES AND RACES IN MY SCHOOL LIKE BLACK, WHITE, MEXICAN, NICARAGUAN, FILIPINO, SAMOAN, CHINESE, HONDURIAN YOU NAME IT NOW YOU WOULD NEVER GET THAT IN BRAZIL

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 8:55 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
Yeah...This is definitley one thing I love about the U.S.. I am from Atlanta, and I love the fact you can encounter people fom all over the world in a single day.
Though in Atlanta, those who are born and raised in Atlanta are usually either black or white, it is getting to the point where you meet very few people who actually was born here. Most people are from other parts of the country or other parts of the world. This is a very cool thing to me.  

-----
Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 9:09 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
Actually what I meant when I started this post was the differences between upper middle class white Anglos or WASP's as they are called and Brazilians. Because of their dominance of the media this is what a lot of people around the world think of Americans, when they think of the U.S..
This is actually a very small percentage of the U.S., so I think it was a great point made by a few that the U.S. is pluralistic society.
I remember once a Brazilian commenting to a arrogant idiot WASP American that we were debating, that this shows that Bush represents his people. My thoughts were Bush does not represent his people. First of all, 61 percent of Americans didn't vote. Even out of the 39% that voted, the majority did not vote for him. He with help from some friends, stole the elections. They basically keep thousands of blacks and Latinos from voting because they knew Blacks and Latinos would not vote for him.
Bush does represent at least a percentage of upper-middle class or upper class WASP's, but the rest he does not, and as I said before these are a only small percentage of Americans.  



-----
Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 9:33 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
Sick



Newbie
   
Jeromy, how do they keep black and latinos from voting?

-----
I have the best hair on this website.

Total Posts: 27 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 10:02 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
ahh.. I'm dragging us off the initial topic again, but I just had to reply this awfully ridiculous statement... made by Jeromy (sorry, I'm not trying to insult you; it's just that I've heard people say similar things before and i want to clarify:
"He with help from some friends, stole the elections"

No-no-no... He did not steal anything. You people threw it away on your own. Come on - if only 39% goes to vote, it is really mainly the people's fault if some stupid a**hole comes to power. I'm sorry, I don't want to rub it in, but the main responsibility of a citizen is to vote!!! It is the most important thing ever; and anybody who does not vote, has also no right to complain!!!
If all these people don't like Bush - where were they when it was time to say so???

-----
Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 10:12 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
Krista, what "you people" are you referring to? Do you mean "your" just want to get clarification.

As a Puerto Rican who is also an American, I'd like to let you know from my perspective a voting member of the American public. No one "threw" anything away. It was proven that Al Gore did win the PEOPLE'S vote, meaning the entire voting public of the UNITED STATES that did vote, voted for Al Gore known as "The people's choice" BUT we have in America what's call ELECTORAL VOTES, where by each state has a representative (s) and their votes actually (in the simpliest terms) override the people's votes. He won with Florida, which is largely a Republican state. I am a Republican, most Latin's in America are, not all but most. I still didn't want Bush to win, I have no shame in saying I voted for the lesser evil, that being Al Gore, so when you say we messed-up, you are incorrect. In America it is NOT MANDATORY for anyone to vote, it is a luxury and something they see free people should be allowed to do without force. Now other countries may require voting, but America I doubt ever will, as it seems it would go against what we stand for, which is freedom of opinions etc. Oh and don't be so quick to quoth the "numbers" cause rarely are the numbers an accurate number, they assume like many. Our voting system period has always been flawed and filled with contradictions, that's how a man who wasn't voted by the people won . . .loopholes my dear, loopholes. It's not about complaing, it's about the people who did vote, didn't vote for Bush, this is a fact, I'm sure you can check CNN.com for proof of this.

Here is a quoth from one of the many articles from the AP (associated press)

the following bombshell dropped.  The networks are now saying that Gore has actually overtaken Bush in the national vote tally.  That means that as things currently stand, Gore has won the election in terms of votes, but could lose in terms of the electoral college if Bush's Florida win stands - the constitutional crisis could be upon us.  ABC News says that they asked eligible voters in their tracking poll who should be president if there was a discrepancy between electoral votes and the popular vote.  By a 2:1 margin, the voters said the man who won the popular vote should be the next president.

I rest my case, and that's who I felt should win as a voting member of the United States of America. Nothing can rubbed into my face, it was a total farce to say the least on what happened in America during that election, but it unearthed are many flaws. We are free to vote if we choose, but who we vote for doesn't always win, hows that for the American way. I have no shame in letting our dirty laundry air.

Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 10:55 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
by "you" i meant everyone who is eligible to vote here (I am not an american citizen, thus I don't have that "luxury"
I so disagree with you when you call voting a luxury though. Yes, legally voting is not mandatory. However, from an ethical point of view, I see voting as a first responsibility of a citizen. Seriously - 39% voting rate tells me that the rest 61% didn't really care what will happen to their country in future. Argue that, please!
Yes, I know american voting system and I know that technically Al Gore got more votes. But that is not much of an excuse. That sad truth is still that even though in the polls Gore had a great majority of support, so many of his supporters did not bother to show that support on the moment when it actually counted. Those who voted for him...I feel bad for them, they don't deserve any dissing. But there's a huge amount of americans complaining about Bush while they didn't even bother to vote.
Vote, people, vote. Or otherwise don't complain if stuff doesn't get done your way.
---

ps: but I agree - the electoral system also needs to change quickly. Better luck next time!

-----
Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 11:13 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
Also I'm not sure why Jeromy feels that African-American's and Latins were not allowed to vote. I don't know about that. What I do know is that in Florida it was proven that many African-Americans who voted had a hard time, and were never accounted for, there was a problem with the ballot system in Florida if anyone remembers.

Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 11:16 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
Ok I here you Krista, and your entitled to your opinion. But it really isn't as simple as "vote people vote". Nothing you say can offend, unless it's allowed to offend. You can't and don't offend me even if I didn't vote.

Now voting in America is seen as a luxury, and regardless of what you think as a non-American, that's how it's touted, but most of us know it's important, it's just having faith in a system that has wronged several times over. It's not that most don't want to, in fact due to our past in this country with the whole voting system, it can be very disheartening to want to vote. I would beg of you not to assume or make overall statements about people and you may not be aware of all the problems that lie within the system.

Al Gore didn't "technically win" lol. If you feel that he "tehnically won" then how can you encourage people to go and vote, when now more than ever they feel their votes won't count? I mean I really don't need an answer, because the truth is he didn't "technically" win, he did win by the people, which is basically what they say our democracy is all about. This isn't the only incident that this has happened. Check the history logs, in fact it has happened before. This all (of course) came out during the whole Florida debate. So when you say with disregard to past facts that basically it's sad that only 39% voted (not sure on that number, but will work with it for conversation sake) then you disregard why they didn't vote in the first place.

Many Americans don't and never have understood the voting process. In elementary school you are basically taught that "ok you can vote, but in the end your vote really doens't count, because the electoral vote will override always". Now many have lobbyed against the whole electoral process, because it's uneven, most the electorals are politically motivated as opposed to being a voice for the people. So I don't really blame the people who don't vote because the system has been flawed way before they ALLOWED women and African-Americans to vote, not to mention Afro-Latino Americans, which let me remind you has only been what 40 years lol.

I'd also like to know how come you feel that a large majority of Americans who didn't vote are complaining? I mean what are you basing this on? I pray not a poll, and I pray not by some personal account, because again those kind of statements would be generalizing. Surely one can't think that CNN is the be all to the American public. I voted and I complain and if I didn't I'd still complain and to whatever to whoever lol. And sorry to lay it on the truth when people see that in essence their votes don't count they won't turn out no matter who thinks it's right or wrong, the system is wrong for now allowing the PEOPLE to truly be represented so on that I totally disagree. People have to know that they are coming out for something, and that's to be heard.

Oh and do I think Bush will win next year, in all honesty I don't see any real contenders unless Gore comes back for another battle. But if he doesn't then yes less Americans will come out , and the Bush and his antics will continue his rule or not lol. It's amazing because the president in America really isn't "the man" it's the others who play around him, you know congress, house of reps, senators lol. Gotta love it lol.

Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 11:42 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
To Sick
I don't have the exact numbers, but during the recount in Florida, 10,000 or so people votes were taken off because they were said to have been felons. They were mostly, if not all Blacks or Latinos. It was later found out that they were not actually felons, and were actually eligible to vote.
This is not a very important point to me. Which goes directly to responding to Krista. It would have made no major difference at all who won the elections. Their is no major difference that effects the average person in America in the Republican party or the Democrat party, in Bush or Gore.
They both represent the special interests of corporate America. They both represent the top 1 percent in our country who control over 40 percent of the wealth of the nation.
According to the Center for Responsive Politics. Less than 0.1 percent of the U.S. population gave 83 percent of all itemized campaign contributions for the 2002 elections. Both Gore and Bush represent that 0.1 percent of the population, and not the rest of the American population.
Their basically one party in this country with two brands. Republican and Republican Lite. Shameless and Spineless. Tweedledee and Tweedledum.
With elections in the U.S. you are given a pseudo-choice. Jeffrey Schrank, in his book Schrank, Snap Crackle defines this best:   "A pseudo-choice should not be confused with the absence of choice. A pseudo-choice exercised by a person using what is commonly recognized as free will, but the choice has carefully controlled boundaries that often exclude what the person choosing really wants...In pseudo-choice test, We are free to answer questions only in the options presented...The factors shaping the choices are invisible to most people...
Pseudo-choices are often supported by advertising or public relations efforts which invariably attempt to make them appear far more significant than they are.
They are preselected, controlled choices that tend to prevent people from asking the basic question: "What do I really want? By so doing, they contribute to the state of general detachment and help create large numbers of people who simply don't know what they want. And those who don't know what they want are the most easily satisfied with pseudo-choice."
In order for a politician to be known he needs to advertise. In order to advertise he needs huge amounts of money. So it is logical that only those who are supported by the very rich are known to the public and thus on the ballot box.
So the reason so little people vote is because most of them know that no matter who they vote for, it well effect their lives and their loved ones lives very little, no matter who wins. This would be the case even if 100 percent of the people voted  


-----
Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 11:49 pm on Feb. 14, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
Oh, Boricua, I can't really quota any polls here or anything. I think one could come up with a supporting poll results for any random statement... However, I am saying that there are a lot of people complaining, because I've lived in US for almost three years now and since Bush got elected, I have met 1 (!) person who dared to say that he supports Bush; besides him, there are some people who'd rather avoid the whole topic, and a GIANT amoutn of people who complain a lot. Of course, this experience of mine is in no way a representative of America, I understand that. It just makes me think of all the lost votes...

At the same time, I do understand the feeling that ones vote doesn't count. For that, the electoral colleges system needs to go, I think everyone agrees. But also, the voting needs to become more popular AND if people think their votes get lost within this messy politics, perhaps it is time to break that two-party system. (I've heard of other po;itical parties in US, but I've also heard of good ways of keeping them out of politics)

-----
Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 8:10 am on Feb. 15, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
"WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE JAPANESE BRAZIL ONLY LETS EUROPEANS IMMIGRATE TO BRAZIL UNLIKE THE U.S."

That's simply a fucking lie, though why I should be suprised when the person who says it is MARQUES MULATINHO, I don't know.

Yes, int he 1920s, Brazil, like the U.S., banned many different types of immigrants from entering the country. However, like the U.S. quota system, this law has long since gone the way of the dinosaur.

Today, Brazil has major immigrant communities from Angola, Mozambique, China, Palestine, Korea, Bolivia, Argentina and Paraguay, all of which aren't "European" countries.

Jeromy: last night I had a delightful meal at a Lebanese restraunt here in Rio. I talked to a passle of Palestinians at the anti-war rally. Then my girl friend and I went to a Mozambiquean bar/nightclub.

We have plenty of diversity here in Rio, more than most U.S. cities, though it is true that NYC has more than us.


-----
Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 5:35 am on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
To Mac
I don't doubt it. I wasn't saying Brasil didn't have diversity. Just that this is one thing I like about the U.S..

-----
Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 10:44 am on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
I heard that in Brazil, all candidtes are by law giving the oppurtunity to express their views.
Also that all Brazilians are supposed to vote.
This would make Brazil a far more democratic country than the U.S..
Someone like Lula would never get elected in the U.S., because he would not be known by the majority of the country. At least until the system in the U.S. is changed.
There are people who have similar views to Lula in the U.S., but because they are not backed by the rich elite they are not given T.V. time

-----
Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 10:58 am on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
OTHER CITIES BESIDES NEW YORK ARE MORE DIVERSE THEN RIO.IN BRAZIL YOU WOULD NEVER FIND DOMINICANS, CUBANS, PUERTO RICANS, HONDURIANS, SAMOANS, FILIPINOS, MEXICANS, JAMAICANS, HAITIANS, NICARAGUANS, PANAMANIANS, NIGERIANS, AND SO FOURTH. I HAVE MET PEOPLE FROM ALL OF THEM COUNTRIES AND EVEN WENT TO SCHOOL WITH THEM THATS HOW DIVERSE THE U.S IS.AMERICA HAS WAY MORE IMMIGRANTS THEN BRAZIL SO OFCOURSE AMERICA IS WAY MORE DIVERSE THEN BRAZIL ESPECIALLY WITH THE U.S'S GROWING HISPANIC AND ASIAN POPULATIONS AMERICA IS NO LONGER JUST A BLACK AND WHITE NATION ANYMORE AND EVEN WITH THE U.S'S BLACK POPULATION ITS STILL DIVERSE CAUSE ALOT OF BLACKS LIVING  HERE IN THE U.S ARE FROM THE CARIBBEAN  LIKE THE JAMAICANS,HAITIANS,TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO,,AND THE SPANISH SPEAKING BLACKS OF THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC,ALSO WEST AFRICANS AS WELL ESPECIALLY IN NEW YORK AND MIAMI.IF WE WERE TO TAKE THE ONE DROP RULE AWAY AND GO WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE CLEARLY BLACK THEN AMERICA HAS A LARGER BLACK POPULATION THEN BRAZIL BRAZIL JUST HAS A LARGER ONE DROP RULE POPULATION.I HAVE READ IN ARTICLES THAT YOU RARELY SEE A BLACK COUPLE IN BRAZIL SINCE MOST OF THEM MARRY OUTSIDE THEIR RACE BECAUSE BLACK BRAZILIANS DONT WANNA HAVE DARKSKINNED CHILDREN THAT LOOK LIKE THEMSELVES SO THEY MARRY WHITES SO THEY CAN HAVE LIGHTSKINNED CHILDREN WITH GOOD HAIR THATS WHY IN A FEW YEARS THE BLACK RACE WILL BE TOTALLY WIPED OUT FROM BRAZIL THANK GOD THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HERE IN THE U.S

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 12:08 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
Patinho



Junior Member
   
That's just crazy. If having black skin in Brazil is seen as such a horrbile thing, then how do they find white people to marry them in the first place?

I know this is just a dumb rhetorical question, but you get my point. And how possibly could a race be bred out of existance in a country? The concept of that is ridiculous.

What the hell was this post about in the 1st place?

Anyway... to use a favorite quote from a movie I saw "I think we should just f*ck, f*ck, f*ck everybody until everybody is the same f*cking color."

I thought that might apply in some small way.

-----
"Quem quer viver faz magica"
--Guimaraes Rosa

Total Posts: 67 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 1:07 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
THAT MOVIE THAT YOU ARE QUOTING FROM IS BULLSWORTH STARRING WARREN BEATTY AND THE BEAUTIFUL HALLE BERRY

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 1:23 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
Patinho quoted "I think we should just f*ck, f*ck, f*ck everybody until everybody is the same f*cking color."
I concur.

-----
Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 1:43 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
Jeromy


Junior Member
   
I am very interesting in the subject of whether Brazil is a more democratic country than the U.S..

-----
Peace and Justice for all

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 1:55 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
NO BRAZIL IS A FALSE DEMOCRACY IN BRAZIL ITS A LAW THAT YOU MUST VOTE BUT HERE IN THE U.S ITS OPTIONAL IN BRAZIL IF YOUR DONT VOTE YOU EITHER PAY A FINE OR YOU GET PRISON TIME SOUNDS MORE LIKE A COMMUNIST COUNTRY TO ME EVEN THOUGH OFFICIALLY BRAZIL ISNT BRAZIL BEING A TRUE DEMOCRACY IS JUST A MYTH BRAZILIANS SHOULD VOTE BECAUSE THEY WANT TO NOT BECAUSE ITS MANDATORY

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 2:38 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
Boricua


Newbie
   
LOL, love the quote Patinho, but even that movie had to bow down to the humanistic ways we all have.

I believe deeply that people from all ends of this earth are afraid of being "snuffed-out" some more than others, so every goes on the defense trying to find a way to look, be, sound, and act better than the group they feel threatened by. This is true for every ethnic group I've ever encountered from Europeans (and all their decendents), Africans (and all their decendents), Asians, Indians, and so on. Every country I've visited and I've traveled quite a bit. It's amazing because egos flare often in debates about culture, race, and history. We all like to take the good and leave the bad.

I think I'm extremely objective when it comes to my Puerto Rican ways and my American ways. I know we can be some very ignorant people. But I also think every country has traces of ignorances, especially where the history isn't all so beautiful and prestine clean.

Now would we all be rooting for procreation across all color and ethnic lines if say the history of slavery in America, and the slav trade period? I find it interesting that people actually believe that would solve problems between humans. To be very honest, we'd all just find something else to fight, hate, go to war, genocides, etc it wouldn't just be about race, perhaps hair texture or how crooked ones teeth is lol. I laugh but I honestly believe people will never been truly harmonious, not when we the majority of us fear that we could become null and void, and not so exciting.

You know before my grandmother died (a few months ago) she use to start having some sort of illuisions, anyways she told my sisters and I "what I wouldn't give to have naturally dark skin" and she would constantly repeat this. Now when she died we asked my grandpa about it, he laughed and simply said "yes yes my love, my life, always wanted her fathers skin, but her mother's hair" he then said "I think she wanted to have them both but ended-up with only her mothers skin, and father's hair (then he laughed his ass off) . . . what torture to the soul." he said after his bought with laughter. Wise old man my grandpa, he knew what torture to the soul was, because to him he witnessed it in my grandma. I find it crazy, but most people think like she did. Based on what they percieve beauty to be, based on conditions usually taught when your young.


Total Posts: 25 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 2:39 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   

Quote: from MARQUESEAZY on 2:38 pm on Feb. 16, 2003
SOUNDS MORE LIKE A COMMUNIST COUNTRY TO ME



So  here's my question: What do you do with a truly stupid person? Do you teach them, or do you just ignore them, because they're not going to learn anyway?
Just for your knowledge, marques - communism is an aconomic system, not a system in which voting is mandatory.
And mandatory voting is not such a bad thing after all, because this is one way of making sure that the elections continue to happen.
Just consider this: Someone said earlier that when Bush was elected, only 39% of people went to vote. In many countries of the world, if less than half the people go to vote, the elections are not valid and need to be repeated, because the total support for the winning candidate is just too small. However, someone needs to be elected, right? Forcing people to vote ensure that someone will be elected. Yes, perhaps it is not the perfect system - if people really hate both candidates, they should have the option of voting for none. Is there such an option on Brazilian ballots? But at least this sytem attempts to force democratic elections... The only thing I can think of is, that there should really be the the option of voting for none, but still be a responsibility to show up at the elections; Or would that cause a new problem, because too many people would opt for the "i vote for no one" box?
And just to be really clear - communism is mainly an ECONOMIC system and not related to voting system at all. In most communist systems of the world, one wouldn't really vote at all (except for the elections within the party), but it is completely possible to have communism with ANY voting system.


-----
Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 3:23 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
Ze


Junior Member
   
You can vote "nulo" or null, which means no one, or you can vote "em branco" white, where your vote goes to the winner.

Total Posts: 93 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 4:43 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   

Quote: from Ze on 4:43 pm on Feb. 16, 2003
You can vote "nulo" or null, which means no one, or you can vote "em branco" white, where your vote goes to the winner.


ze - do you know what is the explanation for the "em
branco" selection? i really can't make much sense out of
that one...

-----
Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 4:50 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
Ze


Junior Member
   
Blank, you don't write on your vote, or as we do nowadays, press the red button. The vote goes to whoever has more votes. Its only use is when one candidate does not have the marjority of the valid votes, ( a%40 b%15 c%15 d%5 *%30) in this case one can be ellected without the nominal marjority.

(Edited by Ze at 8:00 pm on Feb. 16, 2003)


(Edited by Ze at 8:04 pm on Feb. 16, 2003)

Total Posts: 93 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:54 pm on Feb. 16, 2003 | IP
 

Topic Jump
<< Back Next >>
Multiple pages for this topic [ 1 2 3 ]

Topic Options: Lock topic | Edit topic | Unlock topic | Delete topic | Move topic

© 2003 Brazzil | Our Privacy Statement

Powered by Ikonboard 2.1.9 Beta
© 2001 Ikonboard.com