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        Racial quotas at Brazilian Universities
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Macunaima


Member
   
This is following up on information already presented in the "How Hard is it to Be Black...?" and "Lula and Brazil's... issues" threads. I figured that since many of the readers may have dropped off and this is new info, I should present it in a new topic.

UERJ, the state university of Rio de Janeiro, instituted a racial quota of 20 percent for "black" students two years ago. This year it was revealed that all of the students who got in under the quota law would have gotten in anyhow if they'd went through the regular vestibular process (quota students still have to do the vestibular: they compete against each other, however, not against the rest of the student pool).

Comes now news that the number one entering freshman at UERJ, the guy who got the best vestibular score in the school, is a quota student. Only one problem: this guy is as white as my pale gringo ass.

Apparently, what I and many other anti-quota people said has already occured. This kid knew he was good and knew he was probably going to get in anyhow, so he took the quota vacancy to prove a point (smart kid! I hope I get his smart ass in class someday....) UERJ has penalties for saying one is black when one isn't, but how do they determine one is black? Why based upon what one says one is, of course!

This kid, like most white Brazilians, has more than a few black relations in his family tree. When confronted by school authorities, he pointed them out, mentioned that the preferred defintion of "black" set by Brazil's own black nationalist movement is hypodescendency (i.e. "one drop of black blood makes one black", observed that he had more than a few "drops" of black blood running through his veins and thus could legitimately call himself black.

The UERJ officials, huffed, puffed and went away.

I remember bringing this whole issue up two years ago and being told by a self-righteous white prof then politically surfing on the quotas issue that "To ask how they'll define who's black and who's white is simply racist obstructionism". Well, even I didn't believe it would take only two years of quotas for this issue to be revealed in this fashion.

I wonder what the quotameisters will do now? Silvia, my colleague (who's also self and socially described as black) thinks that this will now be used as "proof" that Brazil is "too mixed" for affirmative action to be successful.

In other words, what has occurred is exactly what I thought would occur: a conceptually flawed affirmative action plan has been pushed to its logical conclusion in order to discredit any affirmative action at all - especially stuff that has a chance of working.

And to think that this whole issue could have been avoided if the people in charge of this program had ever seriously considered an anthropologically valid way of defining race: simply have an admissions board to cross-check students self-defintions. stick representatives from all over the university community on it, including folks from the janitors union and students. Any dubious cases are referred to them and decided by majority vote.

Of course, that's "not the Brazilian way of doing things", I'm informed. And besides, worrying about who is and who isn't black under the quota law is "simply racist obnstructionism".


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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 2:47 am on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Iverson


Newbie
   
@ Macunaima , i am not hating ,but  Why You Still Talkin Down ? Damn, you gotta change your whole mind state?


Now are you trying to tell me theres no pure black people in brazil ? AIGHT , I'm about to change the rules , let the affirmative go to pure  black people ,  

Most African-Americans are of mixed races  , but you don`t see any lame excuses coming outa American people mouth ,

You are Throwing  a bricks up and angry couse blacks Are having affirmative action which you cant ?  Its like (damn , blacks were once slaves for my people , how they can get this ? That ain`t right yo ,

Your Whole excuse is brazilian people are all mixed , but i see alot of brazilians who darker than African-Americans , Evry one can tell who is afro-brazilian and who  is not , unles you trying to close your eyez from facts , damn the whole world got black blood but still you know who is black and who is not ,


There alot of good news coming outa affirmative actiom , don`t  point  your fing`r at one bad example dear. , AIGHT.


Total Posts: 9 | Joined Feb. 2003 | Posted on: 6:36 am on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
NOT ALL MIXED RACE PEOPLE CAN PASS FOR WHITE BOB MARLEY IS MIXED CAN HE PASS FOR WHITE NO,COLLIN POWELL,VANESSA L. WILLIAMS,HALLE BERRY,LENNY KRAVITZ THEY ARE ALL HALF WHITE BUT NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD CONFUSE THEM FOR WHITE NOW WOULD THEY.I THINK MARIAH CAREY IS AN EXCEPTION THOUGH WHEN I FIRST SAW HER I THOUGHT SHE WAS WHITE.IN AMERICA YOUR ONLY CONSIDERED WHITE IF YOUR 100% WHITE MEANING NO OTHER NONWHITE ANCESTRY IN YOUR BLOOD LIKE BLACK,NATIVE AMERICAN,LATIN,OR ASIAN.IN BRAZIL YOUR ONLY CONSIDERED BLACK IF YOUR JET BLACK LIKE A WESLEY SNIPES OR A BERNIE MAC BUT THE REST OF THE WORLD AINT LIKE THAT SO BRAZIL IS ALL ALONE ON ITS DEFINITION OF RACE.BRAZIL IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT USES THE TERM MULATTOES CAUSE I HAVE BEEN TO AFRICA AND THE CARIBBEAN AND THAT TERM IS NONEXISTENT THERE.IN LOUISIANIA AND HAITI IF YOUR MIXED RACE THEN YOU ARE CONSIDERED CREOLE WHICH IS BASCIALLY OF BLACK,FRENCH,AND INDIAN ANCESTRY.BUT THEY ARE STILL BLACK TO THE REST OF THE WORLD SO BRAZIL IS OUTNUMBERED IN ITS DEFINITION OF RACE THE TERM MULATTO IS A BRAZILIAN THANG NOT AN INTERNATIONAL THANG.BRAZIL IS THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WHERE MULATTO AND PARDO IS AN OFFICIAL CATEGORY BUT NOT THE REST OF THE WORLD.IN AMERICA IF YOUR YOU HAVE BLACK BLOOD YOUR BLACK AND THAT GOES FOR CUBA,JAMAICA,PANAMA,THE CARIBBEAN,AFRICA,AND SO ON

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 2:06 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Ze


Junior Member
   
Have you ever been outside of your home recently?


Total Posts: 93 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 4:32 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Adam


Junior Member
   
I was just talking to a carioca yesterday, who told me that race isnt much of an issue, everyone is Brazilian. In the US, its "I'm Italian" or "I'm Hispanic." This isnt correct, you live in the US, then your'e "American." (That isnt correct either, I suppose it would be "North American"

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Tchau

Total Posts: 64 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 4:49 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Hey, hey! It’s Mutt and Jeff who are first off the bat in responding to my post. Why am I not surprised?

Iverson, the whiz kid sez: “You are Throwing a bricks up and angry couse blacks Are having affirmative action which you cant ?”

Uh, right. I don’t want to be cruel, Iverson, but do you have trouble with reading comprehension? I’ve looked over my post again and again and can find nothing in it that suggests I want affirmative action for whites. Just the opposite, in fact.

Get this through your skull: if I wanted white people to benefit from quotas, I’d be pushing for things to stay EXACTLY AS THEY ARE, with the quota law in place as is and no definition of what’s black. That way plenty of people who are socially considered white would get your precious vacancies.

So what’s the problem? Is English not your native language or do you just feel that you’re so superior that you don’t actually have to read other peoples’ opinions, you can just make them up as you go along? Or, as I’ve suggested above, do have a reading comprehension problem?

Gotta be one of the three...

“Your Whole excuse is brazilian people are all mixed , but i see alot of brazilians who darker than African-Americans , Evry one can tell who is afro-brazilian and who  is not , unles you trying to close your eyez from facts , damn the whole world got black blood but still you know who is black and who is not ,”

Well, if it’s so simple, then it should be easy to make a law around this issue, right? And one would think that the Movimento Negro Unificado would be in the forefront of trying to get such a law passed. But they’re not: they’re the people who are pushing the whole “one drop” thing (like Sleazy here) that’s letting white kids take black spots under the quota law.

Why do you think they’re doing that if it’s so “easy” to figure who’s black and who’s not in Brazil?

“There alot of good news coming outa affirmative actiom , don`t  point  your fing`r at one bad example dear. , AIGHT.”

Affirmative action is one thing, quotas are another. There are no quotas in U.S. universities, for example. Unfortunately, this case isn’t just “one bad example”: it’s THE topic that’s taken up the majority of public debate over affirmative action in Brazil for the past two years. REAL PROGRAMS THAT WOULD GIVE REAL RESULTS ARE BEING DUMPED IN FAVOR OF THIS DAMNED “QUOTAS” SHIT. IMHO, if you are for quotas, you are not for affirmative action. You are working directly against the best interests of black people in Brazil, AIGHT?

MARQUEYMARK, THE MAN WHO CAN'T OPERATE A "CAPS LOCK" KEY, SEZ...

"IN AMERICA YOUR ONLY CONSIDERED WHITE IF YOUR 100% WHITE MEANING NO OTHER NONWHITE ANCESTRY IN YOUR BLOOD."

So that means this white kid who just got in on a black vacancy at UERJ is OK by you then, right? After all, one of his great-grandfathers is black, so even though he's as pale as I am, with no "African" features, he's black.

So by American lights, our problem is solved: 90 percent of the white population of Brazil has "black blood" in them. Ergo, 90 percent of Brazilian whites are black. Thus we no longer have a race problem and have no need for affirmative action because we're all black in Brazil, anyhow!

Thanks for settling that thorny issue for us, Marquey.

Your logic reminds me of that old saw about the Montgomery bus driver who got tired about all the civil rights bickering and blew up at his passangers. "I've had it with this shit!" he supposedly said. "From now on, everyone in my bus is green!!!" And after the murmuring died down and people had more or less accepted his declaration... "OK, light green people to the front of the bus, dark green people to the back."

I won't even bother with the rest of your post as it's the usual lies, half-truths and outright bullshit. I suggest you read a bit more about the Carribean, especially Jamaica, if you think that Brazil is the only country to use the category "mulato". Pull your head out of your ass and out of BET and read a book for a change, for Christ's sake.

Y'know, I'm actually beginning to think that thou protest a bit too much, Marquey. I bet you're about as dark skinned as I am after I spend a week on the beach, perhaps less. I think YOU are more than a bit confused about your identity and that's why you're so militant on this issue.

Could it be that you are a really light skinned mulato yourself, Marquey? It'd make an awful lot of sense...

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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 5:46 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Actually, it should be "Unitedstatesian" or - my personal favorite - "U.S. American".

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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 5:49 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
I AINT NO PALE WHITEBOY LIKE YOU I AM BLACK AND DAMN PROUD OF IT TOO SOMETHING YOU WILL NEVER HEAR A BRAZILIAN SAY THE ONLY WHITE IN MY FAMILY IS MY GRANDMOTHER SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN BRAZIL I WOULD BE LABELED WHITE CAUSE I HAVE A WHITE GRANDMOTHER GIVE ME A BREAK

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:05 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Ze


Junior Member
   
Oh My! Now we have an explanation for your inferiority complex, I'm very curious now about your second secret, what interest do you have in a forum of about a country that you, empirically proved, know nothing?

Total Posts: 93 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 7:50 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   
Macunaima - with this long posting, you just made my day!!
(10pts. for your sense of humor. seriously!!)

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Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 8:13 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
MARQUESEAZY


Junior Member
   
RACIAL QUOTAS WOULDNT WORK IN BRAZIL SINCE NOBODY IN BRAZIL CONSIDERS THEMSELVES TO BE BLACK ALTHOUGH IT WOULD WORK FOR THE INDIANS IF THEY CONSIDER THEMSELVES TO BE INDIANS THAT IS

Total Posts: 88 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 10:15 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
krista



Junior Member
   

Quote: from MARQUESEAZY on 10:15 pm on Feb. 12, 2003
...SINCE NOBODY IN BRAZIL CONSIDERS THEMSELVES TO BE BLACK...


Yea? Really? Ah, learning new things every day!
/piece of sarcasm right here/

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Radio Do Mar: http://www.live365.com/stations/226288

Total Posts: 97 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 10:57 pm on Feb. 12, 2003 | IP
Macunaima


Member
   
Oh HOOH!!! So Marquey ain't pure 100 percent African after all. This explains an awful lot.

In the grand Brazilian tradition of bestowing embarrassing nicknames on intimates, I hereby dub thee MARQUES MULATINHO.

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Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!

Total Posts: 147 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 4:15 am on Feb. 13, 2003 | IP
 

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