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Brazil, I'm Tired of Your Rich's Insensibility and Your Poor's Passivity PDF Print E-mail
Written by Cristovam Buarque   
Wednesday, 29 August 2007 18:18

A hospital line in Brazil "I'm also tired of people who only want to take advantage, of the traffickers' parallel government, of paying so many taxes for nothing, of so much impunity, of so much bureaucracy, of the aerial chaos, of the congressional investigative commissions that come to nothing, of seeing children in the streets and not in the schools, of prisoners talking on their cell phones, of corrupt businesspeople, of fear of stopping at a red light, of stray bullets, of so much corruption, of finding all this normal, of doing nothing." - Civic Movement for the Right of Brazilians

Independent of any future evaluations of the Lula government, one thing is now certain: It was a time of retrogression for popular mobilizations. The unions, the National Union of Students (UNE), the Landless Workers' Movement (MST), the impresarios, the entire social movement - all have accommodated themselves. The poor population has accepted the Bolsa Família as a great gift with no need for any further demands whatsoever. The intellectuals have opted for "reverential silence."

Fortunately, a movement has now emerged in response. A group of personalities, principally from the arts and advertising, issued a manifesto saying that they are tired of the situation.

It is too bad, however, that they delayed so long in growing tired in a country with income concentration, catastrophe in the healthcare and education services, and such unmistakable corruption. And it is a shame that they have tired only of the violence that appears in the streets without seeing the violence that causes this violence.

I'm also tired. I'm tired of the assaults on street corners, of the kidnappings in the streets. But I'm tired of the secular robbery as the privileged appropriate from what should be the rights of the poor; I'm tired of the violence that manufactures violence, of the theft of opportunities from the young people thrown into criminality.

I'm tired of the airport backups but I'm also tired of the blackouts at the bus stops, where millions of workers and students wait under the sun and the rain, under threat of assaults, with no one to complain to and knowing that their tragedy will be ignored by the press.

Of the blackout of healthcare in the hospital-waiting lines, in the sick faces of the people, in the eyes of the frightened children and the anguished mothers. I'm tired of those who got tired of departure delays at the airports but have never done anything about a country that does not take off.

I'm tired of those who are screaming against the corruption in the politicians' behavior while at the same time benefiting from the historical corruption in the political priorities. I'm tired of the humiliation of the teachers' extremely low salaries, but also of the union members who are unconcerned about the tragedy of the schools closed by the civil war in the favelas or by the interminable strikes.

I'm tired of the artists and performers who got tired of the corruption but who always vote for the corrupt and who will vote for them in the next elections because they prefer a corrupt friend to a honest candidate who is not part of their crowd. I'm tired of the advertising people who got tired of the corruption but who in the next election will happily conduct the campaign of the corrupt politicians who pay them well.

I'm tired of a country that says it has no racism but does not accept the use of quotas to increase the number of black students in the university. I'm also tired of the elitism of the black movement that is interested only in the quotas for the few who want to enter the university while at the same time ignoring the millions of poor black and white Brazilians who abandon their education before finishing high school.

I'm tired of the sense of accommodation of the millions of poor Brazilians who accept the fact that their fathers and mothers die waiting in the lines at the hospitals and passively sacrifice their children's future in schools without quality.

I'm tired, above all, of the apparent impossibility of bringing together the tired, who are afraid of losing their privileges, and the poor, who have accommodated themselves to their lack of rights. I'm tired, but I still have the hope that one day the tired will have patriotism and the accommodated will have consciousness. And that together they will struggle for a country with a good school for each child, independently of the city or of the family into which that child was born.

I'm also tired of so many people thinking that this is an impossible dream. Except that I'm not tired of thinking that it is still worthwhile to believe that it is a worthwhile one. I'm tired but I have not yet given up hope

Cristovam Buarque has a Ph.D. in economics. He is a PDT senator for the Federal District and was Governor of the Federal District (1995-98) and Minister of Education (2003-04). He is the current president of the Senate Education Commission. Last year he was a presidential candidate. You can visit his homepage - www.cristovam.com.br - and write to him at This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

Translated from the Portuguese by Linda Jerome - This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

Comments (247)Add Comment
...
written by AES, August 29, 2007
It is odd that a Senator's singular mantra is "I'm tired". What have you done with this situation of societal malaise? What have you done to address the causes? What actions, what legislation have you sponsored and passed to remedy the causes of this plague of societal mononucleosis? Nothing? No action? No legislation? If you do nothing and have DONE nothing then what are YOU doing as Senatorbesides "speechifying"? The greatest evil is when people that can do something choose to do nothing. You are in a positon to legislate, but alas you are tired, too tired, so very tired, as you say. Why don't you resign and by example provide a solution to the rest of the legislative body? Domage.
TALK IS CHEAP and easy, Cristovam Buarque What have you done?
written by JAY GLENN, August 30, 2007
Talk is cheap, doing nothing, when you know the problems is worse than making the problems. Get back to us when you have some achievements of your own.
I'm tired
written by Shelly, August 30, 2007
I am tired of reading CB's crap every week...Do something idiot!
mokeka eh so capixaba, o resto eh peixada
written by MOKEKA KAPIXABA, August 30, 2007
baita cansaso
ai meu fio
va trabaia
corta cana
eh o futuro smilies/grin.gif
bota é fogo, o resto é cinzas
written by Ric, August 30, 2007
Tu das terra do Café Breda? E os ônibus amareladas? Outro lado do Pocrane?
This author...
written by brazilian dude, August 30, 2007
never bothers to read the comments we write (unlike Ernesto Barteldes, for example, which actually comments back).
There's really no point in adressing anything to him.
CB "Do something idiot!"
written by ch.c., August 30, 2007
He tried.
He was a candidate at the latest presidential election and got only a few votes !!!!!
1 %....or so.
In Brazil, only crooks, cheaters and liars......succeed !!!!!
Criminals too !
And tired Brazilians on Brazil .......
written by ch.c., August 30, 2007
.....usually leave the country !
They are even ready to pay a large amount to be smuggled one way or the other...to another country !
For those Brazilians it is better to be illegal residents elsewhere than legal in Brazil.
This demonstrate the depth of the problems.
El Dude
written by João da Silva, August 30, 2007
never bothers to read the comments we write (unlike Ernesto Barteldes, for example, which actually comments back).
There's really no point in adressing anything to him.


Dude,I wrote something similar to what you just said a few months back in this blog. He is not a bad guy.And an intelligent bloke too. He should muster up his courage and come and join us in this site to interact with his voters. The same thing applies to Geraldo Alkemin too.

btw, I am posting a link that you might enjoy reading;
http://www.clicrbs.com.br/clic...tícias


I happen to know some of the chess pieces in this story smilies/grin.gif. The real old ancient proverb "Spare the Rod and spoil the child" doesnt seem to apply in this incident . How the hell do you expect the senator to handle "Education" as well as to react to this situation?

It is your turn.
In Brazil, only crooks, cheaters and liars......succeed !!!!!
written by Shelly, August 30, 2007
Do you want to include the whole nation or just the politicians? I have a problem with that...do you want me to include my family as well, WHO ARE STILL IN BRAZIL WORKING their ass off?

CH are you saying he is not a crook? You have changed!

smilies/wink.gif
"The greatest evil is when people that can do something chose to do nothing. "
written by ch.c., August 30, 2007
Such as Lula !
Ohhhh yesssss he just amalgamated several previous social programs and merged them into HIS Bolsa Familia !
And what a Bolsa Samba :
0,50 Reais per day...for 45 millions poor citizens. (Annual Budget 8 billion Reals for 45 millions citizens)
And Lula is proud as he said that with such an amount these poors can "NOW" have 3 decent meals per day !
He forgot to mention that such an amount is in fact nothing more than the equivalent of 1 kilo of....SOYAMEAL....AT TODAY HIGH PRICE.....IF BOUGHT BY LARGE AMOUNT.....not even retail prices !!!
Or less than a liter of.....BOTTLED WATER...per day !!!

Ohhhhh.....Brazilians applauded and continue to applaude him.

Now these poors can chose daily between :
1 kilo of subsidized soyameal
OR
less than half a liter of bottled water

........for their 3 decent meals.......PER DAY !!!!!

Viva Lula, the Emperor of Liars !
To Shelly Chérie !
written by ch.c., August 30, 2007
"do you want me to include my family as well"
Not you...it is your family !
But the family of corrupted politicians may have the same answer as yours....by definition "WORKING their ass off" by stealing as much as they can. Just talk to them....they are ALL innocents.....even recognized innocents by the Brazilian Supreme Court of Injustice !

Your question should be directed to people who know your family.....not to me. And to people that are not necessarily family friends, otherwise it is like asking to a PT politician if other PT (or whatever party) politicians are....corrupted !
And you got the answers from Bin Lula himself during the vote buying scandal : there was NOOOOOOOOO vote buying ! Right ? Smile !

And worse yet....these politicians were PARDONED....in a secret vote....by politicians as corrupted as the ones they pardoned !!!!
Pardoning......means they were GUILTY.......not innocents.....by definition.Right ? How could anyone give a pardon to an innocent ?

Therefore feel free to defend your family...as others do !

It remains that a Brazilian by the nature of the Brazilian Society in general, always try to cheat another Brazilian....one way or the other ! Police men do, Bureaucrats do, business people do, politicians do, criminals do, Brazilian judges do, politicals parties do, Government members do, tax auditors do, street vendors do !

And Brazilians are even more happy if they can cheat foreigners....TWICE ! SMILE ! smilies/wink.gif
At least SOMEONE is speaking out! Go Go Go Buarque
written by João Pinga, August 31, 2007
Don’t be too dismissive of CB. He’s a cage-rattler, and this nation needs more of his ilk. And by the way the "I’m tired" stick is from a commercial campaign which, as good as it is, is being completely and totally ignored on youtube and by the press. Quem diria?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onEa8xI7ukE

There is only so much one man can do, and if you think Buarque’s only means of confronting problems in Brazzzzzzzzil is with translated articles here on this site then you are all sadly misinformed. Still, his articles are a form of protest and he’s not to be blamed if an impotent society hellbent on “futchybolly” and “ e, ai velho que bunda gostozzzzzzzza, né” decides to ignore his screams of “fire” in this overly crowded and smelly theatre we call Brazzzzzzzzzzzzil.

Trying to say ANYTHING in this nation is dangerous enough as you will note with the newest investigation aimed at VEJA (so freaking typical), the assiniation of various journalists over the years, and what happened recently in Mato Grosso with two French Journalists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9esNX7bzHY

The inmates are in charge of the asylum (and there is a lot of them) and for the few one this board that have the mental faculties to do something, instead of cheering on CB and asking him what YOU can do to help, you all crucify HIM for not doing enough? I don´t get it.

I know folks in Brazil like others to do all their dirty work them (heaven forbid anyone actually has to do anything on their own), so maybe there’s a despechante we can hire to sort this county out for you folks?
João da Silva
written by Brazilian Dude, August 31, 2007
The link you posted is gone.Maybe they nixed it?
João pinga
written by Brazilian Dude, August 31, 2007
I believe what happens here is the following: we, poor powerless schlubbs, can only speak out, protest, vote and practice day-to-day attitudes to show our disagreement with the present powers that be. The senator, however, is IN the system.We want to see him do what we cannot - actually throw a nice, big monkey wrench in the system's gears.
Therefore, when he protests by means of words, we think "hey, that's something "I "can do.That is frustrating.
Obviously we prefer him to those that not only keep silent, but also participate in the feeding frenzy.
But those guys are out of our reach.If we could only have them all in a locked room, with a few buckets of lighter fluid and matches, I assure you I wouldn't let anyone do the dirty work in my stead.
However, that is not possible, more's the pity.
So we want to see him slug it out for us.
Get it?
Brazilian Dude
written by João da Silva, August 31, 2007
The link you posted is gone.Maybe they nixed it?


No,Dude, I just tried clicking on it and it appeared. If you want to try it on another window, try this:

http://www.clicrbs.com.br/clic...otícias

Brazilian Dude
written by João da Silva, August 31, 2007
Or.................http://www.clicrbs.com.br/clicnoticias/jsp/default.jsp?newsID=a1603115.htm&template=2503.dwt§ion=Notícias
Dr.Pinga
written by João da Silva, August 31, 2007
The inmates are in charge of the asylum (and there is a lot of them) and for the few one this board that have the mental faculties to do something, instead of cheering on CB and asking him what YOU can do to help, you all crucify HIM for not doing enough? I don´t get it.


No, Dr.Pinga, people like us do not want to crucify him as I know that he is one of the few lonely voices against the inmates who are controlling the Asylum. His intellectual ability and personal integrity are unquestionable. His biggest problems are 1) He latches on to one issue (education),though in this article, he has come out with several problems that are plaguing this country. That is a good start 2) Being more of a technocrat, he is too slow and gentlemanly in attacking his political rivals. For example, his comments when Roriz resigned as a Senator of DF(to save his ass), were mild and gentlemanly. 3) His lack of interest in Personal Marketing.

Specifically refering to point 3, his articles are published in this site and read by many who have the "mental faculty", including our good selves (!). This is a great opportunity for him to come once in a while (or ask a few of his bilingual aides) to debate with the members. Or ask the aides to collect all the suggestions (and constructive criticisms) given by all of us and "rattle the cage" further writing articles on the "Macro Problems" facing Brazil and not by restricting to "Education by Revolution".

I think he has a fantastic alternative media to put forth his ideas and do some personal marketing and he is missing the opportunity.

I still think that he or Geraldo would have made better Presidents.But the majority did not want to see an Economist or a M.D. as their President,in this country smilies/angry.gif
J.Pinga
written by João da Silva, August 31, 2007
I forgot thank you for the youtube link you posted. I did view it. I got to see many "Political entrepreneurs"! Hope our friend "Conceicao" views it too,as he will get first hand knowledge of such kind in Brazil!!
...
written by bo, August 31, 2007
I still think that he or Geraldo would have made better Presidents.But the majority did not want to see an Economist or a M.D. as their President,in this country smilies/angry.gif


Well, I don't won't to get too far into a brazilian political debate, but damn, at least Alkimin(sp?) is an intelligent guy that would've been a leader that people could respect. My only question is, is he jewish?

I'm not anti-semitic, but in a country like brazil, with the highest interest rates on planet earth, and Banco Central that does not enforce the very laws of this country concerning financial policy, you would never want a Jew in the executive branch.
...
written by Carlos2, August 31, 2007
My only question is, is he jewish?


No, he´s openly with OPUS DEI -- a retarded Christian fascist group. And, you may not have wanted to come across overtly anti-semitic, but you failed in that mission.
im tired of you being tired
written by Joseph, August 31, 2007
In Brazil, it seems like all politicians talk, and do nothing, they are shocked with corruption, only because its nice to appear so....CB is another talker and do nothing. end of story
so what...
written by bo, August 31, 2007
Carlos? The jews own this f**king country, whether you like it or not! The highest interest rates on planet earth BAR NONE!! After 10 f**king reductions of the prime lending rate STILL no other country comes close!! And it's not because Brazil is borrowing at a higher rate than others! Brazil also has the highest SPREAD of any country on planet earth!

Go ahead, elect a jewish president, they'll suck a lawless country that depends on foreign infusions of cash such as brazil bone f**king dry.
bo-plenty
written by joshua, August 31, 2007
I'm not anti-semitic, but in a country like brazil, with the highest interest rates on planet earth, and Banco Central that does not enforce the very laws of this country concerning financial policy, you would never want a Jew in the executive branch.

What the f**k are you talking about?
Bo
written by João da Silva, August 31, 2007
Well, I don't won't to get too far into a brazilian political debate, but damn, at least Alkimin(sp?) is an intelligent guy that would've been a leader that people could respect. My only question is, is he jewish?


Bo, I dont know his religious affiliations, but I think he is a Christian of Armenian origin. Cant say much about his belonging to Opus Dei. But, I agree with you that he is a bright guy,like Buarque. Geraldo stuck to me as one of the few persons in PSDB who is independent in his thoughts and quite different from the "Party Elders" like FHC and Serra. I liked the debates among him, Helosia and Buarque (unfortunately Lula skipped it). In the debate between him and Lula,he did talk lots of sense. But there again, Lula played his famous trump card-"Coitadinho" and got reelcted.

As for your comments on the high interest rates, I agree with you and combined with artificial exchange rate, it is killing our industrial base. Alckemin warned about it though in his debate and I admire him for it. You may recall that even ch.c has been talking about high bank rates in whole of the planet.All of us are right and I wish the opposition members like Buarque,Alckemin,etc, would be bold enough to question the situation.

As for the religious affiliation of a person, I am not really competent to comment,as I believe that "Brain Power" does not know race,color,religion,sex,etc; I have too many friends among various religions. We like to join together and "build a deck" ,as Jõao Pinga said a few moths ago. Nothing like telling a group of folks "Boys and Girls, here is the objective and lets get the job done".

Hey, it is good that you are very smart as not to fall into the trap of these bankers. I dont fall either smilies/grin.gif
Bo
written by AES, August 31, 2007
Ben S. Bernanke head of the Federal Reserve and Alan Greenspan his predecessor are both noted Jewish bankers of the largest economy in the world. Brazil would do well to have such competence involved in its banking system. You are in your thinking an anti semite. This is not the first time that you have demonstrated such thinking. 'The jews own this f**king country' is a patently anti semetic generalization that is based on classic anti semetic myths. I am disappointed in this virulent demonstration of your nature. It is a pity.
SHrew'd, rue'd, crewed but not Jude?
written by Simpleton, August 31, 2007
Makes not, wants not - who do you serve? Your employer? Your banker? Your smearless leader?
Bo is right...
written by Shelly, August 31, 2007
We all know who owns Brazil and keeps this country in this eternal mode of ALMOST THERE. We, as my dad nicely put it, "pagamos juros a banqueiros". We cannot get out of this situation, is a vicious cycle, much like the lending frenzy by the banks in the US. Bo is right, we are owned by the Jews and this is nothing new. They have for thousands of years controlled the economy and trade everywhere, why do you think Spain expelled the Jews in 1492? It has a lot more to do with economics than religion. Now, we can't blame CB for all the problems in Brazil, the whole country should get together and demand transparency from elected officials.And don't call me anti-semitic because both of us in this house are Jewish descendants. I agree 100 % with Joao, people should be judged on their character, not their race, religion or sex orientation. I don't know much about Alkimin, but I will trust my father, he is there living "the everyday grudge" and will have to agree with him- based on a few interviews that I have seen one year ago, he seems to be a good candidate-Heloisa did put up a fight and touched on all the current issues in Brazil, but she came out as a neurotic woman and out of control on some occasions. I am sure she could do a fine job, anyone is better than AL MULA BIN LULA. But hey, we have this lovely tradition in Brazil, all candidates are honest, promise to change the country, and as soon as they are elected, we have a despotic ruler. There is a witch hunt going on in Brazil, journalists are living 64 all over again and nobody gives a s**t, as long as we have "praia, samba, carnaval, cachaca, futebol e mulher bonita", the rest we'll deal with it tomorrow...

CB writes on this board every week, therefore, he knows he will face criticism from us frustrated, and rightly so, Brazilians. Nobody asked him to post anything here, I am glad that he actually has the guts to come here, BUT I am assuming that he doesn't check the answers. Hence, it is my belief that CB is just like any other politician in Brazil, talk is cheap and these guys are experts in bulls**tting people around.
...
written by AES, August 31, 2007
In China sum dum goy is best served cold.
However...
written by brazilian dude, September 01, 2007
anywhere in the world 7.62 is always served HOT.
I believe in good service. smilies/grin.gif
...
written by AES, September 01, 2007
allow me to buy you a round.
I WILL BUY THE NEW BARREL
written by FORREST ALLEN BROWN, September 01, 2007
so many people too few rounds
Brazilian Dude
written by João da Silva, September 01, 2007
I believe in good service.


FYI:
http://www.clicrbs.com.br/clic...=Notícias

This time your services were not required smilies/angry.gif
Joao
written by Shelly, September 01, 2007
"Viemos apelar ao bom senso dos estudantes e esclarecer que não há intenção de prender ninguém – garantia o procurador federal Eduardo Mello e Souza, minutos antes da desocupação."

Do you think CB or any politician have common sense? They are in need of "bom senso" e um pouco mas de vergonha na cara!
Shelly
written by João da Silva, September 01, 2007
Do you think CB or any politician have common sense?


Shelly, I am a bit suspect, when I defend CB and Geraldo. These two have "vergonha na cara" and not the tradional politicians. I think firebrands like you should start sending e-mail to CB directly in Portuguese. Remember that there are Brazilians like your dad,mom,aunts,uncles,etc; who are honest people.I know we cant change the entire country,but can shake it a bit. As you said before, CB at least has the guts to come out and publish his articles and demonstrate his frustrations. Remember, CB is one of the lonely voices in the Senate.
Shelly: Why do you think Spain expelled the Jews in 1492? Why don't you research it so that you really know instead of parroting the counterfit history your father infected you with.
written by AES, September 01, 2007
"We are owned by the Jews and this is nothing new. They have for thousands of years controlled the economy and trade everywhere, why do you think Spain expelled the Jews in 1492? It has a lot more to do with economics than religion".

Spain expelled the Jews out of fear of their loyalty to the Moors as well as to confiscate their wealth. It was about theft, about mere profit. It was about power. Three months after the final unification of Spain the monarchy issued the Alhambra Decree;
1.To establish political and religious homogeneity. The Inquisition allowed the monarchy to intervene actively in religious affairs, without the interference of the Pope. At the same time, Ferdinand and Isabella's objective was the creation of an efficient state machinery; thus one of their priorities was to achieve religious unity to promote more centralized political authority.

2.To weaken local political opposition to the Catholic monarchs. Strengthening centralized political authority also entailed weakening local political opposition. Resistance to the installation of the Inquisition in the Kingdom of Aragon, for example, was often couched in terms of local legal privileges (fueros).

3.Out of fear. It remains a fact that the Jews, either directly or through their correligionists in Africa, encouraged the Mohammedans to conquer Spain. Whether real or imagined there was a great fear among 15th Century Spaniards that they had a Fifth column living among them.

4.To do away with the powerful converso minority. Many members of influential families such as the Santa Fés, the Santangels, the Caballerias and the Sanchezes, were prosecuted in the Kingdom of Aragon. However the King of Aragon, Ferdinand, continued to employ many conversos in his administration.

5.Profit. The property of people found guilty by the Inquisition was confiscated. Pope Sixtus IV openly accused the monarchs of this sin.
AES
written by Shelly, September 01, 2007
AES, I was a Spanish major here at a local university, before, then I changed to a science degree. Try again. Anyway, back to the expulsion of the Jews. I will write an essay to you only, which will have pieces from a book Spain, 1469/1714 a book I was asked to read before and it was written by Henry Kamen (good book and in English). I will get back with an answer!
...
written by João da Silva, September 01, 2007
I will get back with an answer!


Just wait for me Mr.Higgins! (Probably Shelly was not even born, when the movie was made)

AES, you better have some decent and delicious falafels and plenty of Skol, to confront the lady smilies/grin.gif
Joao
written by Shelly, September 01, 2007
Joao, I am still writing a piece. It goes from the Celts all the all to the expulsion of the Jews, you are right on that front! Anyway, he is so dumb that he didn't even understand the point I was making. I said that the expulsion had more to do with economics than religion, which he has proven my point to begin with. However, I will use his argument, he has some valid points, but I will show him that I know a little bit more than he thinks...

Yo se mucho mas que mi propio idioma! Fui estudiante de espanol en la universidad de George Mason. Todavia tengo mi bachillerato en espanol, y puedo dar mi correo electronico a las personas interesadas. Obiviamente que este senorito (terminologia comun a los que piesan que son de la "clase alta culta") es incapaz de entender que un brasileno/brasilena pueda hablar mas de un idioma, pero soy trilingue tanto en la escrita como en la parte oral en los tres idiomas. He estudiado intensamente ese idioma y su historia. Soy una criatura que he estudiado toda mi vida y siempre fue una persona que miraba hacia a mi doctorado desde nina. No se porque, pero fue una joven que empleaba todas sus energias a un denominador comun, queria siempre probar que mi futuro tendria que ser mejor, para todos envuelta de mi. Ni mas ni menos.

I know you speak Spanish as well, if you wish Joao send me an email and I will gadly prove my point, in Spanish, in English or in Portuguese.
correcion
written by Shelly, September 01, 2007
obviamente y no obivimente. I haven't written in a long time, you know our Portuguese ALWAYS gets in the way... smilies/wink.gif
Jao 3 pages so far!!
written by Shelly, September 01, 2007
I am still writing..
Shelly
written by João da Silva, September 01, 2007
Anyway, he is so dumb that he didn't even understand the point I was making. I said that the expulsion had more to do with economics than religion, which he has proven my point to begin with. However, I will use his argument, he has some valid points, but I will show him that I know a little bit more than he thinks...


Shelly, AES is far from dumb. A good friend of ours. He has a sharp brain.He is spoiling for a good arguement. Better prepare a good essay for the old coot .He is a pro Brasil person and I like his positive attitude.

Of course, I understand Spanish (like your dad,mom,aunts,etc). If you know one of the Romance languages, you can easily understand the others.(unless the Americans changed this ).I do have problem with Flemish,though. I bet you understand it?
Well, I agree to disagree...
written by Shelly, September 01, 2007
Well, Joao, I will say to you, he had an opinion counterfit history your father infected you with.to me to have an opinion not knowing my educational background is stupid. I am sure he is a intelligent man, but the comment was dumb. I really don't care if he is pro Brazilian or anti Brazilian, people are entitled to have their opinions about different countries...
AES
written by João da Silva, September 01, 2007
Jao 3 pages so far!!
written by Shelly, 2007-09-01 22:01:13

I am still writing..


You got your self into big trouble,AES. I would love to see how you are going to get out of this.

btw, why are these folks making noise about our Yiddish friends? Enlighten me please.
Joao 4 pages and not even close to the expulsion of the Jews
written by Shelly, September 01, 2007
I am doing this to show him that I was not "brainwashed" by my father. More than anything else it gives me a sense of pride really. Anyway, all the points that he made are right, I will incorporate his points on my essay, as I said

They have for thousands of years controlled the economy and trade everywhere, why do you think Spain expelled the Jews in 1492? It has a lot more to do with economics than religion
Shelly: As a professor of English Literature, I can certainly formulate an 'opinion' based upon your use of language and its inherent meaning, without knowing your educational background. Your thinki
written by AES, September 01, 2007
We, as my dad nicely put it, "pagamos juros a banqueiros". We cannot get out of this situation, is a vicious cycle, much like the lending frenzy by the banks in the US. Bo is right, we are owned by the Jews and this is nothing new. They have for thousands of years controlled the economy and trade everywhere.

Yes Shelly we pay interest to bankers. It is axiomatic. If you do not wish to pay interest to bankers do not borrow money. Money costs money. Money has a value. It is a value established by the market place. Your contention that the economy of the world for thousands of years has been in the control of Jews is ludicrous. Two thousand years ago till Constantine, Rome ruled the economy of the Western world. They crucified Jews, ie. Christ and half the apostles. The Jews were thrown into the Diaspora by the Romans, their lives and professions were legislated at will by the monarchs in whose lands they inhabited. They were ministers of power, but never the power. After thousands of years of practice they became good at the societal niches that were afforded them by the powers they found themselves subject to.
Your knowledge of history is perfunctory. Your historical conclusions are academically childish, naive at best, specious at worst. The sine qua non of your diatribe is 'we are owned by the Jews and this is nothing new." It is the language of the Judenfrage, December 18, 1941.
AES do the math
written by Shelly, September 01, 2007
Thousand of years is right since, 711 until now characterizes as thousands of years. Your math is ludicrous..
Your premise is flawed. A false premise is an incorrect proposition that forms the basis of a logical syllogism
written by AES, September 02, 2007
They have for thousands of years controlled the economy and trade everywhere.

Really? Controlled? The economy and trade everywhere? For thousands of years? That would be Japan, Thailand, Cambodia, India, Russia, Persia, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, all of Africa? Both ancient and modern? You are rediculous. You exagerate. Your commentary is hyperbole, it is not historical fact. All the economy and trade in the world? You do not know of what you speak. If this is an example of the scholasticism of which you are so proud George Mason has greatly failed you.

AES in despair
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
You are in despair. Now that I have shown that your math and your argument flawed.
All together now! Shake your jewelry!
written by Macunaima, September 02, 2007
I happen to be tired of whiny intellectuals who would rather be living in Europe.

When can we expect you to take a flight out, Chris:
Ok here we go part 1
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
João...
written by brazilian dude, September 02, 2007
just read the link.
Those types would never even DESERVE services.
I tend to stay away from snot-nosed overpriveledged pothead commie wannabes.
They don't need lead, they need rubber.
And they also need to learn what it is like to work for a living.
Part 2
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
The expulsion of the Jews: an economic, political, religious and cultural decision

Before I begin this essay, one must understand the history of the Spain from early ages. Before the territory was unified under Fernando and Isabel la Católica, we must look at other invasion and how other cultures shaped the course of the history.

As you many know, before the Arabs invaded Spain in 711, this territory had other invasion. Prior to the invasions, groups of ethnic people lived in Iberia, they were the Iberos, which lived in the peninsula since prehistoric times, and help establish Andalucia and lived near the Mediterranean ocean. The Celtas (celts), came from central Europe and established themselves near Gallicia, Cataluña, Asturias, Meseta Central (the great plains) and because they mixed/married with the ethnic group on the great plains, the Celtíberos flourished. However, this is important when understanding Spanish history, Iberians were more advanced economically and culturally, a phenomena seen in Spain today, the South-some argue the opposite; more developed and has a strong industry.

Around VIII and VI a.C. the Phoenicians invaded Spain and dominated the city of Cadiz, (in my Oceonography class, the phoenicias are the most successful explores, they have found evidence of strong naval and military organization, if in doubt just browse though any intro to oceanography book). Later the Greeks and Carthaginians from north of Africa invaded the territory, Amilcar and his son Anibal were responsible for the Punic War across the peninsula, fighting against the Romans, but in 205 a.C. they were expelled from the territory, and from the on the Romanization of Spain begins.

Just a piece of information, the invasion and colonization of Spain by the Romans wasn’t an easy one. Most “cities” put up a heavy fight, including Nemeses where all citizens committed suicide, they had a fighting spirit, better be free than dominated. With the settlement of the Romans, so came the religion. It happened more/less in the 1st century and some experts say, it came through the north of Africa, from the south and then it took over other parts of the territory. I think Christianity became strong when the apostle Santiago, visited the country (modern terminology), he is Spain’s patron Saint and for. I have been to Gallicia, to Santiago de Compostela and this is a beautiful gothic cathedral with the “remains” of the Saint. The legend has not been confirmed, but many believe it to be true. Why I am touching on this? Because Fernando and Isabella will evoke this later on and many will fight for the crown, on the belief that Spain has always been a catholic country.

To unify the territory the Romans, adopted Latin as the main language of the country, however local dialects were a predominant mode of communication between the people- this is still true to this day. However, all empires rise and decline, and Roman dominance in Spain had its final fate when the Visigoths invaded the area from the north. The Roman emperor Theodore, tried to establish normalcy in the area, but his alliance with the invaders, proved to be the winning ticket and the Visigoths occupied the country. One of the most beautiful architectural pieces left by the Visigoths was the architecture, the shoehorn can be seen on several of old buildings in Spain, I have been to Palencia and have seen a VII century church La Iglesia de San Juan de Baños, but even in Córdoba you can see the 3 faiths represented in La Mezquita de Córdoba. The Visigoths allowed people to continue with their own language and religion, they did not impose their language or their religion onto others, but the “Hispanorromanos” weren’t allowed to participate in elections or in the government. Also, in the beginning marriage was restricted to same ethnic/religion, but later on people interracial and interreligous marriage was common.

The Visigoths were conquered by the Arabs on 711. I am not going to much into how they stayed in Spain, but the 2 Visigoth factions were fighting after the death of their King Witiza, and because Roderick claimed the throne, Witiza’s familiy asked for the help from the Berbers of North Africa. They helped him off course, but on 711 Tariq ibn-Ziyad crossed the Straight of Gibraltar (now a British Territory) and invaded Spain. The rest is history!!! To be more precise, the Muslim conquest began after the death of Mohammed in 632, his followers continued to invade other territories on his behalf.

Part 3
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
Spain remained under the dominance of the Arabs for 800 years. A small part up in north of the country, stayed under the Christian dominance, there was a sort of “no man’s land” between the line, and more often than not, there were wars in the area. Back to the Arabs, we all know that the 3 religions existed in Al-Ándalus, not always in 100% harmony, but Spain saw much progress in its economy, culture and language. I read Las Jarchas, which is a beautiful song, written in a dialect of Hebrew and Arabic, anyone interested in early Spanish literature should take a look at it. The Mozárabes (Christians under Arab dominance), Muladíes, converted Christians and hispanogodos, lived under the Arab dominance. The Converted Christians were “falso conversos”, they tried to avoid the taxation imposed by the Arabs, but were allowed to participate in the affairs of the Arab culture. The Mozárabes on the other hand were heavily taxed, they were not allowed to participate on Arab affairs, but could practice their religion. We have the Jews, living amongst everyone, THEY enjoyed more liberties. They were fully integrated into the Arab society and participated in the administration of the empire, something that the Christians were not allowed. MAIN REASON why the Catholic kings expelled the Jews from its territory. They always had more affinity with the Arabs than the Christians.

All trade, import and export were conducted by the Jewish. They traded with the Orient and were in control of the trade routes to and from North Africa, ASIA, EUROPE. They used to bring in: silk, drugs, spices, textiles, swords (in my opinion the swords from Toledo are more beautiful). Also, slaves were dispatched to other areas; the slave trade was controlled by them, from Al-Andalus to other parts of the empire. As you can see, Fernando and Isabella had more reasons to expel the Jews; they controlled “banks”, funds and the economy. I said on my comment that the expulsion had a lot more to do with economics than religion; I never said anything else…

Moving forward, I don’t want to write a book, but let’s go forward in time a bit. In 18th and 19th. In October 1469, Fernando and Isabella unite in matrimony. This is the unification of two kingdoms, Castilla-Leon with Aragon. This union has economic, political and religious reasons. Spain began the next chapter of the Reconquista. It is my belief that it really began when Pelayo, a noble Visigoth, took Covadonga from the Arabs. Pelayo in 718 and then Alfonso in 739, when he expelled the Arabs from Galicia e Leon, this began the next chapter in the Spanish history. Historians like to say that it began with the marriage of Isabella and Fernando, but it began before the matrimony of the kings.

While the ceremony was taking place, many other events were also shaping the area around Castilla y Aragon. There were factions for Juana, which some though that she deserved to ascend the throne and be acclaimed as the queen and anarchy returned to Castille. “Cardinal Pedro Gonzales de Mendonza and other great magnates had in 1473 moved to join Isabella, but in reaction to Mendonza’s rival Carrillo turned against her, and the powerful marquis of Villena put his strength behind Juana” (p2). Other conflicts were going on, for example, in Toro, Catalonia, 1462-72, Barcelona with the siege of the town in 1472. Wars cost money and certainly the Spain was suffering economically. The civil wars were not over, and the courts decided to move south, towards the Moorish territory. In 1480, the monarchs were more capable of making decisions in the matter of state and a full Cortes convened in January in Toledo, where all royal property was reclaimed for the crown and Corregidores were instituted. From 1481 onwards, the Isabella and Fernando, marched through Barcelona, Saragossa and Valencia in order to swear the laws and obtain oaths from its citizens.

In 1482, the Christian forces captured Alhama. Hostilities caused a ten year war that ended with the fall of Granada. If you know, Columbus (some say was the “other” in the relationship) was trying to get funding for his expeditions, it was Isabella that persuaded Fernando into financing him, not the other way around. In 1486, he was promised by the kings and officials of Aragon, Luis de Santangel, a Jew and a friend of the king approved the funds to Columbus. Where do you think the money to fund the expedition came from?

1492 is an interesting period. Not only it marks the end of the Arab conquest, but it is also the year in which the Jews were expelled from Spain. The final conquest of the Nazari kingdom in Granada ( in legal terms Granada was never conquered but agreed capitulations), puts an “end” to the war. A note, the Arabs were not expelled from Spain until later on. So to incorporate our friends AES’s answer, yes, they expelled the Jews, because they had controlled the finances, the economy and were heavily involved in the government.
Part 4
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
Now let’s take a look at the main reasons for the expulsion of the Jews in 1492.

La Reconquista, left Spain in dire financial needs. Spain was relatively poor by the end of the war. The Jews were the smallest ethnic group in Spain, were sometimes prosecuted by Christians and Muslims. However, Spain was a tolerant society at the time, more so than today. King Fernando relied on the Jews, such as Alfonso de la Caballeria, Luis de Santangel and Gabriel Sanchez, as you may know AES, Isabella’s financiers were nonetheless the two most prominent man in Spain, Abraham Seneo and Isaac Abarbanel.. This peaceful living of the 3 cultures has been a point which different historians argue the most, I don’t believe it was all “rose and pose”, but the poorer Christians felt that they were being left out by the Catholic kings. As you know, 1391 Spain saw one of the biggest conflict, massacres were seen in Seville, Valencia, Barcelona, Toledo and other areas. Thousands of Jews were forced to accept Jesus as their savior. The new converted Jews, conversos, were largely insincere and were distrusted by all. You may know preachers and cardinals, especially Tomas de Torquemada, were counselors to the kings. They were stirring up hatred towards the Jews, mainly because the church wanted to gain control and Jewish property was a valuable asset to the state. The Spanish Inquisition, in the early stages was more concerned with enquiry than punishment. The inquisition in the beginning was not violent. They became aggressive latter on. The punishments were usually, hefty fines, and in this manner, the church/king accumulated wealth.

Spain was poor, with few significant resources. As you know, the climate in Spain varies, dry in the great plains, wet in Galicia, too hot and humid in the south. Bad land distribution—seen today, poor irrigation meant that agriculture was difficult and primitive methods of land management were used. The war and enterprises of Fernando and Isabella meant that Spain was in constant debt. In 1477, Spain had in its banks, 27 million maravedis. They were broke!!!

Spain had to centralize its power. Where it was the financial capital of Spain in that era? This is no news, many people know this already, AES you tell me? I already know the answer, Valladolid. Anyway, by establishing the Catholic religion as the official religion of Spain, it created a sense of unity, much needed in a country known to have 3 religions. The different factions within the country were a problem. The kings learned this valuable lesson earlier on with the “For Juana” and others “For Isabella” fiasco; Spain has always been LAS DOS ESPANAS.

The marriage did not centralize the power, all agreements were made between both of them, Tanto monta monta tanto/ Isabel como Fernando means that, they both shared power and decisions. In the beginning there was no idea of a “united Spain” beyond their personal union, no attempt was ever made to disturb the autonomy of Castile and Aragon, or any other autonomy. What created a rift between autonomies were simply, trade regulations and taxation, this was a huge problem in terms of unification. For example, Castile had problems regarding feudalism; the Muslim invasion destroyed the great sense of baronage. In the Duero area closer to the river, Christian’s resettlement began by small settlers not dependant financially on any lord.

The Centralization of power comes when Tomas de Torquemada becomes the head of the Inquisition in 1483 and unites the Inquisitors, creating a single authority, more powerful than any other political affiliation. The papacy continued to have influence and claimed jurisdiction, BUT Fernando and the Inquisition blocked the interference and claimed royal powers over the inquisition affairs. The pope new they were taking property and money from the Jews and they could do a thing to stop them.

The Alhambra decree has many sides to it. It has economical, political and religious influences. Spain was poor and in need of money. By expelling the Jews, it therefore created control over trade routes with AFRICA, EUROPE AND ASIA. By expelling the Jews, the personal properties, titles, gold, currency, helped finance Spain and helped finance Columbus expedition. The expulsion of the Jews in 1492 was therefore a cultural, economical, political and religious decision.


AES
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
You, have proven to be an idiot. They did control trade, bank routes and the economy of Europe, Asia and Africa...How far in Asia, now you tell me!!
A correction...
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
Moving forward, I don’t want to write a book, but let’s go forward in time a bit. In 18th and 19th. In October 1469,

It is 15 century....

correction
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
City is Numansia, not nemesis!! smilies/wink.gif
Jaao are you there?
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
Sitting with your beer or wine? smilies/wink.gif
They have for thousands of years controlled the economy and trade everywhere." Your statement is nonsense.They have for thousands of years controlled the economy and trade everywhere." Your statemen
written by AES, September 02, 2007
It was therefore a cultural, economical, political and religious decision.

It is always a cultural, economical, political decision. From the bombing of Pearl Harbor, to the bombing of Hiroshema and Nagasaki; from the genocide of the American Indian to the genocide of the Cambodians; from the crucifiction of the early Christians to the destruction of the Christian church in Constantinople. The movement of history is always a cultural, economical political and religious decision of the state; any state, all states.

"They have for thousands of years controlled the economy and trade everywhere." Your statement is nonsense.

learn history you are desperate///Why don't you research it so that you really know instead of parroting the counterfit history your father infected you with.
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
Dear, learn history. If I were you, with some of the grammar mistakes you have made, you should not say that you are a professor of English literature, change professions....I don't want you teaching my kids! And you were NOT making an opinion not based on my English, BUT on the fact that my father "brainwashed" me. Try again, your argument is nonsense! Your last post doesn't prove anything...keep trying!
Shelly et al
written by AES, September 02, 2007
You cannot make an opinion my dear Shelly. You can form an opinion, have an opinion, endorse an opinion, but not make an opinion. Professing English was something I did 40 years ago at San Jose. Ultimately there is nothing to teach. Most people that are undergraduate students at American universities do not belong there. Most people do not have any inkling of what they think or why.

Brainwashed is your word. The expression I used was counterfit history your father infected you with.
one more comment
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
As I have said, I have nothing against the Jewish people, I cannot go against my nature!Anyway, I truly believe that with the expulsion of the Jews, Spain scientifically and culturally became stagnant. Even with the "discovery of the Americas", Spain remained scientifically a poor country...I agree with AES that, people that borrow shouldn't be crying wolf. The Jews are hardworking people, obviously everyone will look after their own interest in business. However, I am against predatory business practice.
...
written by AES, September 02, 2007
"The most fortunate of the expelled Jews succeeded in escaping to Turkey. Sultan Bajazet welcomed them warmly. "How can you call Ferdinand of Aragon a wise king," he was fond of asking, "the same Ferdinand who impoverished his own land and enriched ours?"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/expulsion.html
AES
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
AES, By saying that my dad counterfeit history, I am inclined to believe that you think that my dad Brainwashed me. I think is rude of you to say something like that about my dad. Let's leave our folks off the discussion. I have a great respect, love and adoration towards my father, more so than my mother. He never counterfeited history, only now we discuss politics. I don't think I was intellectually prepared to have a conversation with him. This is a man that has traveled extensively and know more than I do. I never claim to know everything, not even in Spanish literature or history. But, I did have a Spaniard as a professor, he is a teacher at GMU, he is from Malaga and a genius in Literature and History.

Not a problem my dear, you have a good night and a good weekend. We get caught up in silly little discussions here. I agree with you, teaching these days is difficult and most kids aren't really bothered. I don't know much about American Literature, but I am taking a class in Religion and Politics and I am reading this book The civil society reader by Virginia Hodgkinson and Mark Foley. Just finished reading a James Madison piece, the Federalist n10. I really enjoyed it.

AES
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
I have used this web site before. Also, there were important Jews that came to America, just check some of the names. I agree, Ferdinand set Spain on the wrong path, many nations that welcomed the Jews prospered economically.
...
written by AES, September 02, 2007
. . .the counterfeit history your father infected you with.

Shelly counterfeit here is an adjective not a verb. Infected is not by intent but by consequence.

counterfeit
adjective

Fraudulently or deceptively imitative: bogus, fake, false, fraudulent, phony, sham, spurious, suppositious, supposititious. See true/false.

I was not casting any aspersions upon your father. I was commenting on the information he imparted; particularly its contaminative prejuditial nature.

AES
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
Again, you are wrong. He cannot be prejudicial and he is a Jewish descendant himself. All of his family members are Jews, therefore for you to assume such thing is an absurd. I completely understood the meaning of your sentence, "counterfit history your father infected you with". You don't need to try to explain yourself by putting the blame on me. I have been in this country and lived in England long enough to understand the nuances of the language.

Also, you assumed too much. Pit you don't see that.
Pitty
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
I meant pitty. Anyway AES, think whatever ;you want, it doesn't make a difference. I think I have proven my point, that the history I learned has nothing to do with him...
AES
written by Shelly, September 02, 2007
Ah, I can see what made you explain yourself. Look at my local time, 2:58 am!!!

By saying that my dad counterfeit history, I am inclined to believe that you think that my dad Brainwashe