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Patinho
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11/09/2002
00:54:04
Subject: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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ok... so I did a little searching and found nothing. So I am taking the easy way out and asking everyone here. Are there U.S. Military bases still in Brazil? If so where?


Reserved
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11/09/2002
10:50:41
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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The mere idea of an American military base in Brazil leaves most Brazilians red with rage. Read this story from Amnesty International:

DECLARATION

We, organizations of Brazilian civil society that make up the Jubilee
South/Brazil Campaign, organized a National Plebiscite with the
objective
of informing, hearing and debating with the population in regards to
the
acceptance or not of the proposal of the U.S. to implant a Free Trade
Area
of the Americas - FTAA.

Three questions were submitted to popular vote:
1. Should the Brazilian government sign the FTAA accord?
2. Should the Brazilian government continue participating in the FTAA
negotiations?
3. Should the Brazilian government turn over part of our territory -
the
Base in Alcântara - for military control of the U.S.?

The three questions refer to the constitutional theme of Brazilian
sovereignty. The FTAA is an accord that will be more powerful than the
constitutions of signatory countries. For this, the participation in
the
negotiations represents an unconstitutional practice. The Base in
Alcântara is part of a strategy of the U.S. to implant military bases
throughout the continent. Taken together, these strategies make up a
project of economic, political and military control of the hemisphere
by
the power that wants to be the new empire of the world.

The National Plebiscite on the FTAA and Alcântara was held in all
twenty-seven states of the federation, in almost 4,000 cities and
involved
more than 150,000 volunteers from hundreds of popular organizations,
rural
and urban social movements, churches, unions, federations, student
organizations, women's movements, professional associations, NGOs and
political parties. Since the beginning of the year, innumerous public
debates were held throughout the country. Through them we informed the
population about the proposals of the FTAA and Alcântara and invited
citizens to freely manifest their opinion in the Plebiscite, held
during
the Patriot Week, September 1-7. On the last day of voting we
celebrated
the Cry of the Excluded with massive marches with the theme
"Sovereignty
Cannot be Negotiated"

These were the results of the National Plebiscite on the FTAA and
Alcântara:

Total Number of Votes - 10.149.542
Total Number of voting locations - 41.758

Question 1 - Should the Brazilian government sign the FTAA accord?
Yes - 113.643 (1,12%)
No - 9.979.964 (98,33%)
Blank - 32.291 (0,32%)
Null - 23.738 (0,23%)

Question 2- Should the Brazilian government continue participating in
the
FTAA negotiations?
Yes - 341.593 (3,37%)
No - 9.737.190 (95,94%)
Blank - 47.470 (0,47%)
Null - 23.289 (0,23%)

Question 3 - Should the Brazilian government turn over part of our
territory - the Base in Alcântara - for military control of the U.S.?
Yes - 66.219 (0,65%)
No - 10.006.740 (98,59%)
Blank - 1.100 (0,01%)
Null - 21.547 (0,21%)

The results indicate that Brazilian citizens clearly and firmly reject
1. The signing of the FTAA accord by the Brazilian government
2. The participation of the Brazilian government in the FTAA
negotiations and
3. The turning over of the Base in Alcântara by the Brazilian
government
for military control of the U.S.

The numbers of the National Plebiscite reveal the profound aspiration
of
the Brazilian society for the construction of a truly free and
sovereign
nation, where the people are owners of their own destiny. A nation
where
there is no social exclusion, nor injustice, nor hunger, nor misery. A
nation capable of promoting another integration based on the respect of
cultural diversity and sovereignty of member countries, on equal
commercial
relations and solidarity between peoples. Brazilian society rejects
the
proposal of the U.S. for economic, commercial and military re-
colonization, and aspires for its own national development project.

This is not the first time that we express our citizenship in this
manner.
In the year 2000, the same constellation of social forces, articulated
by
the Jubilee South/Brazil Campaign, organized a Plebiscite on the
External
Debt. Then, more than 6 million voters expressed their desire to free
the
nation from the burden of the external and internal debts and the
adjustments imposed by the IMF, which also make the construction of a
national development project impossible.

Brazilian citizens have shown a level of maturity and political
interest,
always willing to participate when asked, always showing their desire
for a
present and future of liberty, dignity and justice. In contrary to
what
many so called elites have said, the Brazilian people are interested in
and
want to participate in the important debates and decisions regarding
our
present and future as a nation.

The Plebiscite shows the Executive, Legislative and Judicial powers of
Brazil, the U.S. government and the transnational corporations that the
Brazilian people will not give up in forging their destiny. It
reaffirms
to the peoples of the Americas that participate in the Continental
Campaign
against the FTAA, that the Brazilian people will not stop struggling,
always and in all places, for a nation and continent free from colonial
exploitation and injustice; for a nation and continent in which there
is
space for all citizens with dignity and rights.

The results of the National Plebiscite on the FTAA and Alcântara are a
clear affirmation that it is possible to construct a world without the
domination of one nation over the other; in which the economy serves
the
people; in which the relations between people and nations are based on
equality and respect for differences; a world, indeed, in which there
is
space for all worlds, all cultures, all the aspirations of all the
people.

The National Plebiscite is the beginning of a campaign with goals of
pulling Brazil out of the negotiations of the FTAA, stopping its
implantation in Brazil and the continent and maintaining the Base in
Alcântara under national control. That the Three Powers hear this
outcry!
That society continue educating and informing itself and mobilizing to
construct a free, just, sovereign and united America.

The Continental and National campaigns against the FTAA and the
victorious
initiative of the National Plebiscite on the FTAA and Alcântara
continue
the struggles for the independence of our country and our continent and
inherit the historic grandness and the values of justice and equality
of
these struggles.

SOVERIGNTY YES, FTAA NO!
ANOTHER AMERICA IS POSSIBLE!

SÍ A LA VIDA, NO AL ALCA!
OTRA AMÉRICA ES POSIBLE!

Brasília, September 17, 2002 - National Campaign Against the FTAA


* News Release Issued by the International Secretariat of Amnesty
International *

20 September 2002
AMR 19/025/2002



USCIT
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11/09/2002
11:34:25
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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So the idea of a U.S. base in Brazil leaves you red with rage does it, Reserved?

Too bad you are so ignorantly informed. The U.S. has, and has had for a large number of years, military bases in many countries all over the world.

Germany. Did Germany lose its 'sovereignty'? How about Cuba? That's a country rabble rousers like to cite. Did Cuba lose its 'sovereignty'? How about Saudi Arabia? Have they lost their 'sovereignty'? Not hardly for any country. They enjoy the rent and make a massive amount of money from it. Okinawa was going to kick all U.S. bases off, until they added up the rent they would lose. Then it was Ok. I could go on and list dozens of countries with U.S. military bases. None of whom have lost their 'sovereignty', but more would be pointless.

Its this type of ignorant viewpoint that keeps the world from advancing. Not that I'm in favor of putting a military base in Brazil. Actually, I would like to see the U.S. close ALL military posts outside of the United States borders and SAVE that rent. With our air and missle strike capabilities in the current age, having a base in some foreign land is almost superfluous. Other than that if some idiot such as Hussein or N. Korea tries to throw a bomb at the U.S. the U.S. can now vector bombs back from many corners of the world. But we also have dozens of submarines out there with the same capability. Ergo, the extra bases are not needed.

The radical thinking of driving one to 'rage' however is not only shortsighted, its the type of 'thinking' that keeps third world countries from advancing. And say's in your brief little blurp that you consider the U.S. a deadly enemy.

Sobeit. Instead of being a favored nation, You can have deadly enemy status in our trade plans. Think of how happy that would make Argentina, et. al.




John
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11/09/2002
13:03:50
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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Yeah, people in Okinawa love the US base...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1421837.stm


USCIT
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11/09/2002
13:48:42
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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No, they don't. It's a glaring reminder of them losing the Second World War. But they sure like the U.S. bucks it pulls in. The U.S. was in full preparation of pulling the base out when the Okinawan's pleaded economic hardship and decided they would prefer having the base there.

Don't try to toss in tidbits of individual conduct over a national issue. Its senseless and shows you have no grasp of the overall fact.


Patinho
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11/09/2002
22:34:53
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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ok.... well.... ummm...interesting posts, but I repeat the question: "Are there U.S. Military bases in Brazil and if so, what cities are they located in?

Thanks


USCIT
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11/09/2002
23:53:32
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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For a guy that wants to stay peaceful and quiet, you can sure stir things up, Patinho. <g>

But, if you need to find a US military base in Brazil go look around Alcãntara near São Luis. Do believe you'll find at least one.





Guest


11/10/2002
03:39:02
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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nope, there is none.


USCIT
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11/10/2002
14:50:19
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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Ok, I can only blame my translator. It went far enough to tell me a lease for the base had been signed by FHC and the U.S., but then did not continue. I guess it is not yet a done deal. I have sent the translator to the dungeon without a dry biscuit crumb for supper.

No base. As of yet at any rate, and if the vote is followed, there won't be one. ?? Will the vote be followed?





Guest


11/11/2002
05:03:57
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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The vote won't make a diference actually. There are many local interests against this base and very few defending it. It is not an ordinary military base, it involves the brazilian space program, and unless U.S. offers something more than just money it won't be.


brazzaboy
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11/15/2002
15:22:53
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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From someone living in the great white north and a great lover of Brasil I say US keep your hands OFF Brasil. Brasil has all the capabilities to be a huge power in this world and once they find the right and devoted leader it will be.

God Bless Brasil


rightnow
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2/12/2003
20:20:49
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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Here is an article that would enrich this issue. This article will help MR. USCIT to understand a lit bit more about geopolitics, neoliberalism and why US needs the Military Bases around the world. By the way, it is in Spanish. I hope he knows a lit Spanish, otherwise he will need to use his trustworthy translator.

www.rcci.net/globalizacion/2003/fg305.htm




Estudante de Inglês
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2/13/2003
06:05:04
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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Centro de Lançamento de Alcântara não é uma Base Militar dos Estados Unidos da América em solo brasileiro.

Exposição do Problema. O Brasil hoje tem tecnologia para construir satélites, tem uma base de lançamento de foguetes, mas ainda não dispõe de capacidade plena para construir seus próprios foguetes. Está pesquisando. Um boa alternativa para obter recursos para esta pesquisa é alugar a base para lançamento de foguetes de outros países. O Brasil tentou negociar este aluguel com a Itália e a Ucrânia, mas o negócio emperrou por oposição dos Estados Unidos. Não se faz negócio nesta área sem o apoio americano. Além disso, 80% dos foguetes para serem lançados são dos Estados Unidos. Ora, assim o governo brasileiro resolveu primeiro conseguir um contrato de aluguel com os americanos, o que abriria as portas para outros mercados. O Brasil está louco por este dinheiro. O governo alega que já se gastou muito dinheiro na construção e manutenção da base. Sem o dinheiro dos aluguéis, o programa espacial nacional estaria comprometido ( não haveria dinheiro para a pesquisa de satélites mais modernos, e a construção do tão sonhado primeiro foguete).
O grande problema é que os foguetes usados para lançar satélites são os mesmos usados para lançar mísseis destruidores. O Brasil, para provar sua intenções pacíficas assinou um acordo entre vários países jurando que se um dia construir seu foguete o utilizará só para lançar satélites. Apesar disso, Os Estados Unidos continuam desconfiados. O Brasil para eles é um país suspeito. Daí a dureza do acordo celebrado. As partes mais pesadas são as seguintes:

a) Os caixões com as peças dos foguetes e satélites que cheguem pelo ar e pelo mar em Alcântara não poderão ser abertos e bisbilhotados pelos brasileiros.
b) As áreas onde forem feitas a montagem e o lançamento deve ficar fechada para os brasileiros. Lá só entra gente autorizada pelos americanos.
c) Se foguete por defeito cair em solo brasileiro é nossa obrigação entregá-lo na hora para os americanos. Não podemos filmar e fotografar os destroços.

A razão de tudo isso é que os americanos não querem que o Brasil, que está quase construindo o seu foguete, aprenda como é que se faz. Acham que o Brasil assim poderá lançar não só satélites mas mísseis. Por causa desta preocupação o acordo prevê ainda umas obrigações adicionais para o Brasil:

d) O dinheiro que o Brasil ganhar com o aluguel da base não poderá usar no programa de desenvolvimento de satélites e foguetes. Isto é um absurdo, fere a nossa soberania. Ora, o Brasil quer alugar a base justamente para ter grana para seu programa espacial.
e) Quando o Brasil alugar a base para outros países, o contrato deve ser feito no mesmo molde que o acordo com os Estados Unidos. Outro abuso a nossa soberania.
f) O Brasil só poderá alugar a base e manter cooperação tecnológica na área espacial com países que assinaram o compromisso de desenvolvimento de tecnologias espaciais para fins pacíficos. Outro abuso contra nossa soberania. A Ucrânia, que tem interesse na base, não assinou o tal compromisso. Nem a China, com a qual o Brasil tem um cooperação na área espacial desde 1988 (fizeram um satélite juntos).


Conclusão.

O acordo é bom para o Brasil. Mas as obrigações complementares (d,e,f) devem ser retiradas do acordo. Os Estados Unidos não podem dizer como o nosso país vai usar o seu próprio dinheiro e nem determinar com quem e como nós vamos contratar. Por isso deve-se pressionar o Congresso Nacional para rejeita o acordo do jeito que está. O Brasil dever rediscutir com os Estados Unidos. As obrigações que procuram evitar que o Brasil descubra a tecnologia americana são duras mas devem ser aceitas desde que escritas em linguagem mais respeitosa à soberania nacional (a,b,c). Afinal os Estado Unidos tem o direito de esconder o seu conhecimento. Outro aspecto importantíssimo: a criação de um fundo com parte dos recursos do aluguel da base para melhorar as condições de vida das pessoas expulsas daquela área, para a preservação da memória das comunidades remanescentes de quilombos e para o desenvolvimento do turismo histórico e espacial no município de Alcântara.

Obrigações inaceitáveis. Ferem a independência do Brasil.
· Artigo III, número 1, inciso B: “Não entram na base de Alcântara equipamentos e mão-de-obra ou dinheiro de países que não tenham assinado do compromisso de não usar foguetes para lançar mísseis »
· Artigo III, número 1, inciso E: “O Brasil não usará o dinheiro do aluguel da base para construir seus proprios foguetes”.

· Artigo III, número 1,inciso F: “ Todos os outros contratos de aluguel da basel que o Brasil fizer com outros países devem ser iguais a este »

Artigo IV, 2 : « Nenhum brasileiro entra ou sai da área de montagem e lançamento de foguetes sem autorização dos americanos »

Artigo VIII, número 1, b : « Os caixões trazendo os satélites e foguetes americanos não serão abertos e observados pelos brasileiros »

Artigo VIII, número 3, b : « Caindo os foguetes americanos em solo nacional, os brasileiros devem correr para juntar os destroços e devolver aos Estados Unidos, sem estudar nada nem fotografar ».

Cordialmente, Estudante de Inglês, com preguiça.
:)





Fernando B
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2/13/2003
11:38:18
RE: U.S. Military Bases in Brazil?
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Good Post Estudante de Ingles! I think that we gonna have to find our Von Braun (as americans did) to help us with our rockets! LOL


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