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kay
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11/14/2002
23:30:53
Subject: A question for you Brazilian men/women out there
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Ok so here is the deal. I met this Brazilian guy who is a Capoeira teacher and he is always really nice to me when I see him. He has traveled to our group a couple times to train with us. I know Brazilians are just huggy and kissy with everyone but he hugs me and kisses me on the cheek a lot and says he loves me and asked me if I was going to move to his city. But I am half his age (he does not look that old at all!) and I am considering moving to the city he is at not just for him but that is part of the reason. He is just so beautiful. Is it crazy of me to think he is considering me or is this is bad situation that I should just avoid? He is just so sweet to me and American guys just don't pay me any attention so it feels good.

Also, I am going to Sao Paulo for a few days for a lay over and I have never been to Brazil. Where would be cheap to stay and what should I do and how can I stay safe?


DaMan
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11/15/2002
03:26:30
RE: A question for you Brazilian men/women out there
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"When there is doubt, there is no doubt."

-chinese proverb


American Woman
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11/15/2002
10:00:56
RE: A question for you Brazilian men/women out there
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Kay: I am American, but I am in love with a Brazilian man and my very closest friend is another Brazilian man. What I have learned is that Brazilian men are warmer and more demonstrative than American men (a stereotype, but true for me). They can be seductive without meaning to be and then can't understand what went wrong when the woman starts to want to be more than friends.
If you really like this man, get in contact with him through e-mail, phone, snailmail, whatever. Develop a long-distance friendship. See how he responds. Does he maintain the communication connection? Is it frequent? Does he initiate it as well as just respond? Does he seem happy to hear from you? Do you share things openly and deeply about your lives beyond Capoeira? Do this for awhile. Watch and see if the communication enters deeper and more frequent levels. IF it does over many months, then ask him if you came to his city how he would feel. Time will reveal if there is potential or not. The most important thing is not to make this man feel rushed or, if there is any potential, he will run. Men like to be the hunter.
I know this isn't what you want to hear because you are looking at a huge investment of time if he keeps responding. (If he doesn't, you'll have your answer right away). But, if there is anything there to begin with, and you build on it with patience and care, you will have something that should last. And you will learn alot in the process about loving someone and becoming a woman deserving to be loved. In the meantime, read some books such as "What to do Until Love Finds you--waiting for Mr Right"by Michelle McKinney Hammond. It will help you be a worthy woman in your contacts with him.
Best of luck. I hope it works out, but if he is not the right one, you will meet someone who is, be he American or Brazilian.


Joe
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11/15/2002
10:49:30
RE: A question for you Brazilian men/women out there
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Hey girl, go to www.brazilgirls.com it is free and click on "photos" on the opening page. Read the brief pleas by a few thousand Brasilian women in Brasil trying to get out of Brasil (for many reasons for sure, as in opportunity and economy) but many of their reasons are because of the lack of sincerity of the Brasilian men.

Just go to the page and find out yourself.

If this man is so sincere would he not invite you to stay in his home providing you an assuring feeling if not guarantee of your safety (from him), like you will be sleeping in his grandmother's bed...with gis grandmother alongside. (Just kidding !!!).

But don't pass up the opportunity of going to Brasil. But Sao Paulo seems kind of New Yorky and not the romantic side of Rio, Salvador, Paraty, Ouro Preto, Amazonas/Rio Negro, Buzios, Santa Cataraina, Carnaval, and New Year's on Copacabana Beach; try to get him to take you around his most incredible country; perhaps the best on earth; my apologies to Sao Paulo as I only know your airport tarmac. Santos is nearby...go there!!!




woman in the know
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11/15/2002
16:11:03
RE: A question for you Brazilian men/women out there
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Think about what American Woman said. One other piece of advice. If you want anything besides a one or a two night stand, be his friend, but DO NOT SLEEP WITH HIM (HAVE SEX) unless you are living there and having a deep in person friendship with him with some type of exclusive commitment. Once you have sex with a Brazilian man (or most any man) he'll either dump you afterwards, keep you as a casual lover, but NOT marry you. Brazilian men want women they can respect--same as most men, but find it easier to have casual sex relationships, due to more cultural open ease with sex, than Americans do. Pay attention to what the man above me said. Brazilian women have a hard time finding someone to settle down with.


Angie
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11/25/2002
15:00:04
RE: A question for you Brazilian men/women out there
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A brazilian woman point of view:
I agree with a lot of what has been said, BUT brazilian women have a hard time finding a nice man to settle down with due to many reasons. Some of these reasons would not apply to an american woman. Granted, BR man do not like to be hunted, but hunt. Brazilian women, on most part, hunt! BR men like independent women. BR women (again, there are exceptions) want to find a bread winner, someone with cash, someone who provides them with "safety". That is financial. Just look at the country's economic history, and how women are still discriminated on the job market, make less money, are less heard etc. American women are more independent, a LOT more assertive, don't take (sorry) "shit" as most BR women do, give space to their mate, and have their own life/interests - whereas BR women have a hard time developing/cultivating their individuality. They live their man's life. It all revolves around them. Even though BR man admire assertive and independent women, they may feel intimidated by them, unless the guy is older - 35-45, maybe divorced, with more life experience etc. I'd say, in your case, be yourself. BR man tend to be very charming and love to "touch" other women, but if you feel he's been too close to you physically speaking, don't be afraid to confront him, specially if you don't like playing games and are looking for something serious (?). If he likes you, he'll open up and everything will be good (though they usually make the move if they are really interested in a girl, specially if this girl is not totally falling for him). Otherwise, he'll nicely give you hints that he's not interested (they are not very good at the "short and sweet thing", it's cultural. Most brazilians aren't. Actually, they do that so to keep you around in case there is nobody else when they are lonely, if you know what I mean. So, that is something else to be careful about). So, in my opinion, telling him how you feel might be a shortcut. If he's mature, he'll understand and will appreciate your honesty. If not, well, do you really want to be with an imature macho who flirts with everybody, and in a few moths will be putting "chifres" (horns) in your head? Well, that's my 2 cents. Hope it gives you another perspective to think about.


Angie
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11/26/2002
06:04:24
RE: A question for you Brazilian men/women out there
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Read my msg. at female-male on the forum. It's somewhat related. If you are american, you'll probably have other insights?


Dempsey
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11/26/2002
07:28:02
RE: A question for you Brazilian men/women out the
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Interesting stuff, everyone.

I'd like to share a story. Whether it corroborates what has
been said is up to you. Just a personal experience that may
yield some insight.

I am American. A childhood friend of mine (also American)
met a Brazilian woman, age 29, on one of his business trips
there. She was certainly the hunter, hitting on my friend and
proceeding to a night of reckless sex (the condom she
provided broke) and revelry. They kept in touch over the next
several months. On his next trip there she flaked out after
promising him he could stay with her. He was forced to get a
hotel. She caught up with him on his last day there and
confessed that he was the "love of her live" and all that stuff.

They kept in touch over the phone, and eventually she came to
San Diego to visit him for an entire month. They "fell in love,"
and then she went home with him to Michigan to meet his
parents, at which time they had some kind of stupid fight and
she proceeded to tell his parents all kinds of personal stuff
about him -- the amount of alcohol he consumes, what he is
like in bed (!), that she thinks he is gay sometimes (he is
effemminate), and a host of other things. They reconciled a
day or two later, but needless to say it was very awkward.

They've since gotten married, after she up and moved from
Rio to San Diego to be with him. She speaks horrible English
(but is very willing to learn) and he all but refuses to learn
Portuguese.

What does this all mean? I don't know. But from my limited
experience with my friend and his relationship, I can see what
you mean about Brazilian women being the hunter. Also, be
wary about how "open" she wants to be with your parents
about your personal stuff. Also consider the language barrier
-- as we see on brazzil.com, it's fertile ground for
misunderstandings.


Mojo Jojo Jo
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11/26/2002
08:57:41
RE: A question for you Brazilian men/women out there
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I guess that story proves that there are bitches everywhere, irregardless of culture, country, etc.

I feel sorry for the guy in the story. In all probability she will either cheat on him or leave him or both in the future.

And in the meantime, she will continue to treat him like shit.

Women should adore and worship their husbands.

Ofcourse, a man should treat his wife like a queen.


Down to earth
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11/27/2002
08:49:01
Kay Kay
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From what I have seen, it seems to me that Brazilian women and men aspire to marry/date a foreigner. Once thy fall in love with a foreigner, they seem to click better than when they click with their own. Obviously this is far from perfect as more often than not, the Brazilian woman/man will put up with less sex, less affection, less company from friends/neighbours/family, less parties and less things in common with their partner and the gringo man/woman will put with “quite a few children”, nosiness, a lot of jealousy, annoying Brazilian friends/in-laws, some laziness and overbearing attention with possibly “some cheating”. But at the end of the day there is this big thing that opposites attract. So far I have noticed that out of all the foreigners chosen by Brazilians Americans/Canadians are the ones they get on with the best since even though they are different, the (colonial) cultures, priorities are very similar.

I think that Kay will have a fantastic time with a Brazilian man and learn a lot about her sensuality, confidence with the opposite sex and sexuality. But you must prepare yourself for a serious relationship because funny enough Brazilian men are very serious about their relationship with foreign women unlike with their own Brazilian counterparts. I’ve asked this to both Brazilian and American men: why do they have this fascination with women from the US and Brazil respectively, and the Brazilian chap told me that he is sick of emotionally overbearing easy Brazilian women and the American guy told me is felt lonely and unloved amongst hard, cold American women. Obviously once they become a long term couple Brazilian men tend to be less happy with an American woman in the long term than a Brazilian woman with an American man. The reason for this mainly appears to always be down to sexuality. Quite a few Brazilian men end up missing sex with Brazilian women and lack affection/attention from their northern partner. So Kay, you need to find the right balance between not “being too easy” nor too “cold”.



Angie
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11/27/2002
12:33:32
RE: A question for you Brazilian men/women out there
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Wow! Down to Earth, this is one of the best messages I've read on this subject. You are so right. Unfortunatelly, I'm one of those who couldn't put up with "less sex, less affection, less company from friends/neighbours/family, less parties and less things in common with their partner". Maybe if my ex hubby had been "less cold and individualistic", I'would have.

Only to add, speaking about idividualism, Brazilians have a collectivist culture, where individual interests are subordinate to group interests; Identity is based on the social network, and loyalty is highly valued (family members invading your house on a saturady afternoon). Americans have an individualistic culture, where "I" predominates over the "we". Independence is highly valued (wife wants attention, hubby wants to read his book, alone). So, mix all that into a cross-cultural marriage, and you will certainly have some tension. One will end up having to renounce to some of his/her needs, values and beliefs. If that doesn't happen, they will end up either unhappy or sepparated. Unfortunatelly, we've been in both stages.


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