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Saskia
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11/18/2002
10:00:01
Subject: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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I'm a student in Sweden writing my final exam term paper on
the Fight Balls in Rio de Janeiro. The first time I read an article
on the subject was about a year ago. Although an interesting
subject, it's proving to be very difficult to find lengthy
information about the terrible series of events that are taking
place at these clubs. These clubs, horrible yet intrigueing,
provide many aspects of study, moral, ethic, musical and
humanity. If anybody has any information about the children in
the gangs and favelas that attend these mass dance halls,
where they result in fighting wars, often resulting in deathly
consequenses, and/or with ties to sexual orientation, I would
be most appreciative. The whole scandal and cruelty of
allowing these Clubs to continue has not been given any
attention in the Swedish media and press, and I would like to
change that, as well as write my school term paper essay.
Appreciative for any kind of reply, S.


Anonymous
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11/18/2002
19:11:26
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Downtown/2020/Downtown_010625_brazilfunkballs_feature.html


Saskia
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11/19/2002
11:22:12
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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Hi,
Whoever made an effort to help, thank you so much, I really
appreciate it. I've done my research though, and have already
read the article that was posted on the abc news sight, and
have tried to get in contact with anybody at abc news, the
20/20 crew, so if anybody has any tips, I'd really appreciate it!
Other then that I'm desperate for whatever kind of information
anybody has to share, whether it's only about one aspect of
the clubs, or in a certain perspective, it dosen't make a
difference.
Thanks all the same for the tip,
Best wishes, S.


Paris
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11/19/2002
11:52:48
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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Brazzil.com has published a story on the subject that you might be interested in reading

http://www.brazzil.com/rpdapr01.htm

Good luck with your research


Anonymous
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11/19/2002
12:03:34
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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You might also try the search engines. I took a quick look at google (www.google.com) and had several hits, including the one for Brazzil.com.


Z
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11/19/2002
16:29:16
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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While these funk balls are a shame, I ask you to not write about them. First because it is a local problem that does not involve you or your country in any way, second because you are using third hand information that is really hiped, and so not of any use.

I really do not understand what kind of fascination foreigners have with human suffering here, but if you wish to know more about it try first hand information that can be found on brazilians local newspapers. The most reliable ones are "Globo", "Jornal do Brasil" and "O Dia", all of them are from Rio altough they have each very different types of readers. They are in portuguese, so I suggest using a nearby friend or a virtual translator. Their links can be found using www.cade.com.br ,search for "jornais".


Saskia
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11/21/2002
06:07:01
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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Thank you so much to those who replied to my messages. The site described by "Paris" as good was indeed excellent, and has given me lots of new reading material.

I din't understand the comment posted by Ze.There is no fascination with these funk balls, I do not see them as a novelty. Infact it is much to the opposite. I am interested in creating awarness for the cause. It should not only be a burden to the Brazilian people, especially if other people are offering aid. Maybe I can't offer physical help, but by causing awarness, other people will be informed and the more people that know, the larger a resistance can be created to stop these terrible acts. Thank you so much for your tips on which news papers I should read, since I am aware that foreign press coulor the news. If any more people have information about this subject, please post a comment.
Thanks again. S.


Z
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11/21/2002
07:59:29
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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Well, let me add a few details then:

1) Quite recently a new type of tourism has become pretty popular here in Rio, it is called favela tour, which passes through the most poor and suffering parts of the city. I see it with some suspicion, since it is probably sanctioned by the crime lords of these areas, and I regard it as a leisure for the saddistic.

2) These balls will surely not suffer anything through international awareness, since they are usually illegal, and funded by organized crime.

3) Although the numbers may seem scary to you, let me remember you that Rio has quite a huge extension and population, so these balls do not reflect the biggest problems in this city. Actually they are seen as a sub-problem, since they are dependant upon dirty money, and misery to continue.

4) And please, be carefull with your awareness, it could become histeria and ruin one of the biggest industry of this city (if you are curious, the main income is petroleum, not tourism).

I thank you for your good intentions.


Brent
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11/21/2002
12:45:35
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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Ze said: >>>While these funk balls are a shame, I ask you to
not write about them. First because it is a local problem that
does not involve you or your country in any way, second
because you are using third hand information that is really
hiped, and so not of any use.<<

So what? They can write about it if they want. That's like
asking you not to write on anything outside of Brazil. That's
doesn't really sound like the pursuit of knowledge to me.
Maybe that's why you know so little. Why not try to broaden
your horizons a little, ZEE?


Ze said: >>I really do not understand what kind of fascination
foreigners have with human suffering here,<<<

Because of its enormity. Human suffering is news. People
living comfortably in the U.S. is not news. You don't
understand the fascination with suffering because you live
amongst it.


Z
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11/21/2002
16:07:21
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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To BRENT:

They already wrote, I'm just explaining why it doesn't help.

As to pursuit of knowledge, isn't it suposed to be reading rather than writing?

Yes, I'm aware of the fascination that suffering arouses, but I'd rather not aknowledge it for personal reasons. I'd rather people come here to see the beauty...
...well you understand...
...I hope.


Saskia
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11/23/2002
04:25:48
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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Message:
The pursuit of knowledge can infact be both reading and
writing, and that is what I'm trying to do. So if anyone has
anymore information about these types of balls or anything
related to them, i.e. the post about the sexual aspect of the
balls, I'de appreciate it
Thanks, S.


adrianerik
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11/24/2002
02:36:27
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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For the record - I am the same person who posted under AfricanAmericanMale (and when I last looked in the mirror I am proudly the same). I prefer to use my real name.

@Saskia - you stated in your first post that the balls were "horrible yet intriging". To many of my friends in Brazil who are advocates for the oppressed they are simple horrible! fullstop.

I won't question your motives but there are more than enough examples of foreigners, usually Europeans, but we Americans will probably catch up, who explore the downside of Brazilian life for the sensational side of it and not the human side. There was a major discussion in Rio several months ago because of how Carnaval was changing. Emphasizing the aspects that appeal to foreigners (sex, nudity, drinking, etc) rather than the original culture and social satire that was the basis of Carnaval. There was a big debate about shortening Carnaval by eliminating the Baianas who represent the original origins of Carnaval.

In Bahia my friends at Olodum, Dida and other places regularly ban the videotaping of their presentations because of them being sold to European television (with no benefits to the struggling groups in Bahia).

I go to Europe often. I see more exploitation of the conditions of third world peoples on television (especially in England and German) than a real heart-felt investigation into the causes of these things.

A book was just released in Brazil (in August) about the growing Brazilian prostitution in Europe---young girls---mostly mulatta according to the book who were promised marriage and then, with no money, no passport, in a foreign country, were forced into prostitution. The men were 93% Europeans.

For all the good intentions there is a reason why, despite all of the beauty in Brazil, the first sign you see at Rio, Salvador and So Paulo customs are warnings against child sexual exploitation.


You may have a good heart (I don't know). Why not contact Instituto Promundo, in Rio. They have already done an investigation into these issues and have made a video about. (although they see it as a symptom and not a root cause).

@Z - I can appreciate your desire to have people only see the 'good' and 'beautiful' side of Brazil. But these fight balls are not a small part of Brazil life. They are the symptoms of a a larger problem. (Sascha uses the words "fight-balls" and "funk dances". They are similar but should not be confused. Many youths go to 'funk-dances' that have nothing to do with fighting. They are treated like sh-t by the non-favela Brazilian society and just want someplace to go. There is very little for youth to do in the Favelas.)

Too many Brazilians turn their heads away from the issues in the favelas. They only pay attention when the problems 'spill' into their 'clean' neighborhoods (like Rio and Ilha being ordered to shut down by these same groups).

But it the root causes of these things are not addressed by everyone, they will not go away and the problems will get worse.

Peace

(I just realized that my turning my Norton Utilities Security on - It also was blocking the ability to post to forums)




Saskia
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11/24/2002
07:49:16
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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thanks for replying to my post. these balls are horrible,
fullstop... intriguing only because they are with little resitance
allowed to continue. I'm not out to exploit the brazilian culture
or frenzy in Brazilian misfortunes, simpley to write a term
paper on the conditions there. I am really hungary for
information, please explain the differences between the funk
dances and fight balls, and anything you feel like sharing. I
would truely appreciate it. I am only a student in Sweden,
that's on the other side of the globe, although a small country
and our problems diminitive in comparison, I feed the
homeless in Stockholm (the capitol) every sunday, a small
effort, but at least it's somrthing, i'm interested in the Brazilian
socail status, and I plan to forge a comparison in my essay.
My intentions are pure, so any information you give, or anyone
else for that matter, I'll be happy to recieve it.
Thanks and peace to you too, S.


Adrianerik
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11/24/2002
14:46:16
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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Don't take it personally. That is why I directed you to Instituto Promundo in Rio. They are good people and can give you phone numbers to people who live in Bangu and other favelas around Rio.

Look them up on the internet. Ask for Patricia or Marcos.




Z
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11/24/2002
17:11:46
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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Actually in Rio you cannot easily turn your head away, just ask a friend of yours to point the location of the favelas and you will see why.

As to me trying to make people see the beauty and not the ugly in here, it is because I dislike the negative propaganda (nothing to do with what was posted here) with some superficial true that is sold outside as exotic. I think you do understand my point.


Saskia
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11/25/2002
06:55:41
RE: Fight clubs/balls in Rio
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Thanks, both of you are very helpfull. I shall find those things
over the net as proposed, and thank you Z, for your change of
heart, and hope to hear from you both in due time.
If there's anything else, anybody, please do tell!
Thanks again, S.


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