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Adam
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11/20/2002
19:03:23
Subject: female-male
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Yes, I know, I copied this question and changed the genders,
but I would like to know of any American guys who have had
relationships with Brazilian women. What have you found are
the main culture shockers for you? What about plan/time
management? I'm interested in knowing other men's
experience regarding a brasileira's valued characteristics,
integrity, sincerity & romance, reliability, drive, etc.
Any comments are welcome.


Angie
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11/21/2002
15:07:07
RE: female-male
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Are you currently dating one?


Adam
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11/21/2002
15:12:07
RE: female-male
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No, not currently


Angie
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11/24/2002
09:59:06
RE: female-male
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Would you like to know my opinion or you only want to know about it from a men's perspective. Oh, just to clarify, I'm brazilian myself and I have dated americans, so I could try to tell you how my experience was and how cultural differences played an important part in the relationship.


Adam
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11/25/2002
17:59:02
RE: female-male
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yes, please do, i want to know..


Angie
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11/26/2002
06:02:17
RE: female-male
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Well... let's see if I can help. This is based solely on my personal experience, so don't take this as being true for everybody.

Culture shock: Haha... a little story comes to my mind on this one. Steve and I had been dating for almost 3 months when my sister came to visit me. We decided to take a trip together, the 3 of us. The night before we took off, he called saying he was getting everything ready (he lived with his parents and we were at the university dorms), he had put gas on the car, gotten sodas and he was making sandwiches. Wow! I thought "What a sweet guy! He's not only paying for gas but he's also making sandwiches for us since he knows we don't have a fridge to store food." So, the next morning he picked us up and we left. It was almost lunch time when we decided to stop at a McDonalds to use the lady's room. When we got back at the parking lot, he was sitting in the car, with the trunk open, drinking soda and eating sandwiches and asked "Did you guys eat already?" and I asked confused "Didn't you say you brought sandwiches?" and he goes "Yes, for me only." Soooo, my sis and I headed back to McDonalds, simply astonished! No need to say that was the first "no no" in our relationship. That translated into he being selfish, rude, unpolite, and it gave me that sense of... you take care of yourself, I take care of me. Well, for a brazilian girl, that's a terrible phylosophy to go by in a romantic situation. The guy needs to care for his girl, AND please her family if they are included. Fortunately, I was studying Intercultural Comm. and thought that could be a cultural thing. Was it? I'm not so sure.

Plan/time management: I'm not sure w/ you mean here. The only thing that comes to mind here is, if you throw a party at 8:00pm, the girls will show up at 9:00pm. We don't arrive early because we don't like to be on the spot. It's better to get there when the party is already warming up. That way, we can "look around" (or hunt :) Check my posting on "a question for brazialin men/woman out there") without being the center of attention. As to other things, I'm personaly punctual. I hate tardiness and be left alone waiting for anybody. NO GIRL likes that.

Valued characteristics in a man:
Integrity: A trustworthy, honest man is a big turn on. Who wouldn't like to be with a man who has no debts (or at least is not drowning himself in it, and pays off what he ows), who gets along with pple., and has good values and morals? I'd say the "malandro" type is not trustworthy and offers no security to a woman, therefore, not good.

Sincerity/romance: I was impressed after a few months in the US with the number of virgin guys I met. That was a shock to me, not necessarily bad, but different. I actually have a good friend from Equador who married an american guy. They only had sex after marriage, and he was "just" catholic. Now, to the subject. I think romance is a huge thing for brazilians. We need to be pampered. I'd say American and brazilian man are almost the same at it, which is, very rare! American man though, are not very fond of "touching" without a purpose, if you know what I mean. If it doesn't end in bed, then forget it. BR man usually enjoy that more. A surprise little gift, a guy who cooks dinner, who remembers your favorite color... I met an american (!) guy, at work, who was actually very good at it. We never had anything between us, but he liked me and was not ashamed of showing it. On my birthday, I arrived at work and there was a vase of flowers from him at my desk. He bought the flowers, the vase, and a ribbon and put it all together himself! That was awesome. He also made a homepage for me (he told me only when it was ready) and all the links were related to something I had mentioned I liked (cycling, langerie, cooking tips...) The background color was my favorite color, which I never told him. He observed from the clothes I wear!!!! He even told me in a letter once that he missed the way the left side of my lips were higher when I smiled. After that I asked Steve if he knew what side raised more when I smiled, and he, who had been with me for over five yrs then, did not know! THAT was just incredible! If I wasn't commited at the time... on the other hand, the only dozen of roses I got from Steve, were after 6 yrs together, when I said I was leaving him. He sent it to work. Go figure!

So, I guess reliability and drive kind of overlaps on the other stuff. American guys need to be more relaxed towards sex, "want" more sex (this once a week or every ten days thing is not common among brazilians), worship the girl (tell her she is better than the models shown above, even if you know that's not true!) exercise their romantic side. All this added to their honesty, good communication skills (really listen to your woman), tell them what you want/need, and give them some sense of security by working hard to provide for your family and wife if you get to that point. I guess you'd get any brazilian at your feet.

Did it help?

PS: Again, this is my opinion, and there are exceptions to all I said!!! Just clarifying for those who like to object!






Anonymous
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11/26/2002
07:42:59
RE: female-male
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Cracks me up, Angie.

<<(tell her she is better than the models shown above, even if you know that's not true!) exercise their romantic side. All this added to their honesty,>>

Tell her she is better, even if you know its not true. Your Honesty?

Women ever ask why men lie so much. Its because women train them to do so. One lie leads to another, and so on and so on. But let the man NOT lie to her and he's a cur and a cad for life.


Mojo Jojo Jo
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11/26/2002
07:51:36
RE: female-male
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no no no!!

you do not get it!!

You tell your woman that she is more beautiful because for *you* she is. That is not lying. That is telling her the truth. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

When you are with her, do not even look at another woman. Even if she is half naked and a super model. Give your undivided attention to your girl. She will notice. Trust me.

Otherwise why are you with her ?

sheesh....we men can be so daft sometimes


Mojo Jojo Jo
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11/26/2002
08:02:31
RE: female-male
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I mean if this was your gf would the models have anything on her??!

http://www.brazilgirls.com/B214.shtml






Adam
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11/26/2002
09:02:05
RE: female-male
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I had a false expectation when asking this question, but
thanks 4 answering. Ps-the sandwich thing was just a guy
not being thoughtful


Angie
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11/26/2002
11:51:01
RE: female-male
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Good point "anonymous". That was funny, wasn't it? Now, as for one lie leading to another, that's you call.


Mojo: "You tell your woman that she is more beautiful because for *you* she is" You are correct. Very well said.

Adam: You are welcome. And, yes, he wasn't being thoughtful! Very good!



Angie
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11/26/2002
12:11:30
RE: female-male
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By the way, anonymous, it seems that you do understand my point, though you are giving me a hard time. Here are your own words at another thread:
"Hey guys: Before you get so excited about everything, remember that make-up and the right lighting can transform even the plainest girl into an exotic beauty (...) So if you have a woman at home, appreciate her. She's probably more beautiful than most of the models you worship.

You are smart! That's exactely what I meant.
;) Oh! And you crack me up too!








Anonymous
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11/26/2002
13:18:24
RE: female-male
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Happy you caught the point, Angie. It was meant as humor.


Down to earth
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11/27/2002
08:05:25
RE: female-male
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My partner always asks me when we go to Brazilian events/clubs/bars or simply walk in the streets why are there so many pretty young Brazilian women with dog ugly men, preferably foreigners. I was brought up abroad and I cannot understand this myself, there seems to be different beauty standards for Brazilians, so I would like to know what to Brazilian women look for in a man?


Adrianerik
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11/27/2002
13:05:35
RE: female-male
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Perhaps you guys are doing this subliminally but itīs so clear that when you say American - you mean white Americans.

Angies comments about individualism do not apply to (here comes the hyphenations but here we need them) to Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans and African-Americans. And if you leave the West Coast and East Coast it does not apply to many white Americans.

There is a different experience of African-Americans in Brazil. We do not have to ītanī to disguise ourselves. We can see racism that many Brazilians do not. Iīve had to cuss out many Brazilians who mistook me for somebody who will take that ignorant elitist attitude from them. Particularly given that, if you eliminate those ignorant prostitute-hunting black men who go to Rio, then a large majority of my African-American friends who go to Brazil easily outclass the average Brazilian of any hue when it comes to education and experience.

Our experience allows to have a third eye into the Brazilian soul because if we keep out mouths shut and know enough Portuguese we hear and see the underbelly of Brazilian society.

In regards to ugly men. Women from, I hate to use this term, Third World Countries, quickly go beyond looks to dating a perceived lifestyle, even it is not true. Our Seinfield, Friends, Dawsons Creek, etc have created a myth of the American (white) in third world countries.

The truth, from someone who has lived in America approaching 4 decades, is apparent to us.

But perception is nine tenths of reality.

So it goes.....

I have to be honest. There are some American white men who are nice guys who cannot get a break in dating in America and just need some women to give them a chance to prove how sensitive and feely feely and funny they are.

Differnt strokes for different folks.

There are others, like many of my women Brazilian friends, who marry the perception and rudely discover that the emperor has no clothes.

Peace

ps - Ze, Angie and others...I just snuck into your country today. The $324 fare by UNITED was too much to pass up.

Was going to stay with my friends in Rio (in Ilha) but my plane was full of the prostitute chasers I spoke of who were bragging about their spot on Copacabana. Got a quick flight to Bahia and will go to see Dida Banda Feminina tonight and then go to sleep...alone. Sex without love has never been my forte.

Will be back in Rio on Saturday. Iīll just hold my nose and enjoy the beauty that Ze speaks of - which is true. If you stand on Corcovado looking at the Mountains and three beaches, Niteroi bridge, Rio is the most beautiful city in the world.

Peace Out




Angie
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11/27/2002
14:00:53
RE: female-male
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Down to Earth: don't take me wrong, but brazilian women comment exactely the same thing to each other about american men with ugly "american" girls. I personally think american men (white AND black) are very handsome. But like they all say, it's in the eye of the beholder. Maybe I need glasses? :)

Adriane: Very good point. I was refering to americans in general. According to Kenneth Cushner and Richard Brislin (Intercultural Interactions, 1986, pg.5) "most people are considered multicultural, as we are all socialized by many different groups that influence our behaviour and thought patterns; gender, nationality, ethnicity, socioeconomic sattus, and religion, for example, all play roles in our socialization." I'd say it is like a culture within a culture. Then, the "hyphenated" category comes along.





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11/27/2002
15:26:51
RE: female-male
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Have a walk at the "Lagoa", stop by to drink some coconut water, then enter the "Jardim Botânico" and relax under the shades of the trees. I wish you a good stay.

... I will feel insulted if you don't explain what does your average brazilian means... but not to much.


USCIT
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11/27/2002
22:18:56
RE: female-male
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Angie,

Answering the question you asked much earlier;

<<The guy needs to care for his girl, AND please her family if they are included. Fortunately, I was studying Intercultural Comm. and thought that could be a cultural thing. Was it? I'm not so sure.>>

In my part of the anglo U.S. world any man acting like that would be considered a horses ass (to put it very mildly) and dropped as an associate henceforth. His conduct was NOT a cultural thing in my part of the U.S. at any rate. You AND your sister would have been fed and cared for and if that were not possible (due to finances or whatever) you would not have been asked on a date, so the situation would never have happened.



Angie
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11/28/2002
05:22:50
RE: female-male
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USCIT,

You are right! Unfortunately it took me over 6 yrs. to figure that out (love does that to pple).


Adrianerik
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11/28/2002
08:56:32
RE: female-male
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@Angie - Very true. I will say though, that if you look at social trends...the few areas where we Americans value family and friends over things is decreasing. But I think that Brazil is still doing a good job of holding on to that. My friend dates a guy on the West Coast (I guess they are still dating). When the holidays came she felt that she would not see him because he would go to visit his parents. When he said that he never spends the holidays with his family she was shocked. She couldnīt understand how someone did not want to see his parents and family.

@Ze - Will do that. I was reading O Globo yesterday and they gave an example of what the lights on the Christmas tree will look like this year. Awesome! I warn any man not to go to Lagoa if you are not looking to fall in love. In the warmth of the spirit of Natal, the warmth of Rio, the waters of LaGoa....when those lights start changing you want to marry anyone the first person you are with. It is soooooooooooo romantic!

Also...you are right about the word average. It is a statistical word that has no meaning. (the average Americans has 2.5 kids...what is that???) I was incorrect to use that term. I should have said "of the Brazilians that I have met". (in my studies Iīve gotten my wrists slapped many times for generalizing)

As an observation - working class African American men have discovered Rio. I talked to some on the plane who were coming for the third time to Rio. After about 5 minutes I quickly saw that their conversation was solely caipirinhas and women and the worst of Rioīs clubs. I decided to read a book.

In Bahia there is a cultural attraction. Many of my friends chose their masterīs or doctoral thesis on Bahia and live here for that time to study. They have an immense respect for the people and the culture.

There is also a group of young white Europeans who love the ecology of Brazil. I meet a lot of them and enjoy talking with them of their experiences as they travel away from the cities into the aspects.

I am working with some business students at FTC in Bahia (Faculdade de Ciencia and Technologia). They recognize the fact that Bahia, when trying to compete with Rio, for tourists also were bringing in the wrong kind.

They are trying to create marketing campaigns to increase eco and cultural tourism and decrease the other kind.


Adam
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11/28/2002
11:36:17
RE: female-male
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Let this topic and the posts that are generated from it be
an example to those of you who argue your point, instead
of discussing your point. There is a difference. I see so much
bickering and arguing on this forum, its nice to see ppl can
discuss ideas in a civilized manner. As long as this is
happening, I will keep returning...Obrigado


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