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Reformer
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11/22/2002
08:27:58
Subject: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Does anyone know the name of that rude woman who handles the tourist visas (and other matters) at the Los Angeles Brazilian Consulate? Have you had experiences with her too? I have spoken to both Brazilians and Americans who can't stand her because of her nasty manner. Even the employees in the bank on the ground floor of the building the consulate is in say that people come in and complain about her all the time. Here is a sampling of what friends and I have experienced: 1) being asked for paperwork which is not on the regular form. 2) having the window slammed in their face when a requested form was in the fax machine and the person asked her if she would please turn around and get the fax because the needed paper was right there. 3)A woman from a church going to visit a missionary work in Brazil was told "I know why you're going there and it won't be for long" as the consulate woman crossed out her five year visa and wrote "good for 10 days only". 4) Several people have been made to come back 2 or 3 times to get their visa, even when they had the correct paperwork on the first try. 5) when asked why the fee was so much, being snapped at "You do it to us"! (ok, that's true, but what a rude way to answer the question). 6) Being asked to furnish BANK ACCOUNT STATEMENTS for a tourist visa 7) a Brazilian who called to ask questions about voting in October's election was made to feel stupid that they didn't know if local issues/candidates from their home state could be voted on here.
What I want to know besides your experiences is why this woman is allowed to continue working there? She certainly presents a bad image for Brazil.


Brent
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11/22/2002
08:34:34
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Sorry to hear that. She sounds like a fucking cunt. Try going
on her day off maybe? Either that, or find out her full name and
report her.

The people at the consulate here in NYC are very friendly and
efficient. It takes some time when you go in, but they are
helpful and patient every time I've gone there.

If they asked you for a bank statment for a tourist visa, it might
be because you are going to Brazil for a while and they want to
make sure you have money to stay. It's a tit-for-tat thing -- the
U.S. does it to Brazilians coming here because they are likely
to just overstay and live off welfare or something. It's unlikely
that an American would stay in Brazil and try to live off the
state (more likely that an American would steal a job from a
Brazilian), but they do it just because we do.


Reformer
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11/22/2002
09:03:20
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Who would you report her to? Thanks


Angie
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11/23/2002
12:43:12
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Interesting... I never met any brazilian who lives in the US on wellfare. As a matter of fact, with no exceptions, each and everyone I've met are hard working honest people. Actually, the ONLY 2 pple. I met who lived on wellfare were americans temporarily unemployed. Maybe it's just the pple. I hang out with.




Patinho
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11/24/2002
18:15:00
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Brent,

Maybe I am just uniformed, but just exactly how does an illegal alien get welfare benefits in the U.S.? I thought in order to get government assistance you had to fill out all kinds of detailed paperwork. Which in turn would reveal that they are illegal.

By the way... welcome to the board Angie. Oh, and I know MANY MANY MANY people that are on welfare. As they are my employees, I can honestly say that 70% of them make enough that they do not need it.
It's sad how people abuse the system and drain the economy's resources on a program that was meant to help people.


Down to earth
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11/27/2002
09:14:39
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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The thing that always comes to mind when one talks about Brazilian bureaucracy, management and efficiency is how “incompetent” most of it is. I mean it looks like they even take the “word of mouth” way of getting jobs abroad! Not surprisingly Brazil is in such a state as in 90% of the cases all you need to get an important job is to know the right people, have the right contacts or the right background. Most Brazilians go straight from Mummy and Daddy’s house to some top executive or law/government job without having any work or life experience whatsoever. They don’t even get a summer job to help with high school or university and have all their studying expenses covered by their parents until they are nearly in their thirties and in many cases, well beyond that. This gives a hard time and bad name to hardworking Brazilians who come from the bottom of the social scale and are desperately trying to break in the market place; these are the people who can’t even afford to go abroad and not even get a chance to make a Brazil a better place. This is what happens when 80% of the country’s wealth is owned by 10% of the population and 1% controls 50%. In other words, Brazil is run mainly by a bunch of incompetent scumbags.


Lucas
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11/28/2002
23:11:13
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Essa maldita cultura de que nada aqui presta, que todos são
corruptos já encheu o saco!

Seus inertes do caralho, vocês acham que não há
corrupação nos países de "primeiro mundo" também?
Façam alguma coisa ao invés de só reclamar.



HPC
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11/29/2002
12:27:01
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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You should know more about brazilian society and economy before saying that brazilian youth dont work or they leave the parents house later than americans because they like this...

USA youth can leave their parents house and have a comfortable life because you dont need to be graduated to get a job with a "good" salary.

In Brazil many young people works but the money that they make is not enough to have a good life, in Brazil if you are not graduated nowdays your future will be really hard.

Its not easy to get a job here, and why many mid class ppl who has a good life should take jobs from the poor ones? Only to buy a radio or to fell independent?

You cant compare Brazil with USA, there its easier to get a job and the life is cheaper for who has dollars.

I have friends who went to USA and worked in MCDONALDS making 800U$ per month, in Brazil MCDONALDS pay 130R$...this is 40U$...

Sorry for my english, I started to study english only 2 years ago.








Randy Paul
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11/29/2002
13:02:07
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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HPC:

You make some very good points. Don't apologize for your English, two years is not a lot of time, but you seem to be doing well.


Boris
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11/29/2002
13:08:51
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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HPC, how can McDonalds in Brazil pay less then R$200 per month. It is the minimal wage the last I heard.


Down to earth
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11/29/2002
13:10:03
Nothing to do with the USA
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HPC You’ve got a fair point but I still don’t agree. I’m not comparing Brazil to the USA, actually the USA is far from being the only country where people work to acquire experience or independence. And this has nothing to do with stealing a poor man’s job, but all to do with improving conditions in your lower paid jobs, experience and “growing up”. And if you are so concerned about the poor people you are free to help and invest in job centres for the poorly educated. What I am trying to say is that a 30 year old Brazilian worker who has never left his parent’s house and never had to pay for anything in his life has no idea of what it is “to struggle”, “to be independent”, to be “competitive”, compassionate and productive in the “real world”. This individual is completely unprepared for any kind of “administration” or professional survival. Such a person would be a disaster in any kind of high-powered occupation especially anything involving management and organisation no matter how many degrees or diplomas he has acquired. It is not productive for any adult to never experience or take any risks regardless of how much he theoretically knows. Pre-renaissance scientists and philosophers and the old European aristocracy had this mentality of studying and acquiring knowledge without experiencing. They soon found out that this is good but it is not enough to succeed “out there” especially when it comes to living in a society. Not surprisingly, in general, financially privileged Brazilians mature much later if “at all” since they are always surrounded by the safety of the “nest” (family) and cannot handle stress or professionally challenging situations. How many Brazilians do you see going abroad expecting to attain the same life style and privileges as they had back home simply by showing off a bit of academic knowledge or dropping a few names? They are very good at knowing and talking but when it comes to “doing” it’s another story.

It’s not about making money my friend, it’s about “experiencing”, not taking wealth for granted and you don’t need to work in McDonalds for a summer job. You can train for a company in your field and In Brazil there are plenty of things to do that allow you to do that. When I was in high school I went to Rio to help out to paint schools for poorer children, the money would have never feed me for a day but it did help me to understand a lot of things about life. As a privileged Brazilian you don’t exactly need the money but you “DO” need the experience. Know your own country, your own people, go beyond your little protected fortress.



Bruto
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11/29/2002
14:05:32
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Down to Earth - your sure are listing a whole bunch of non-sensical garbage. Go throw yourself from your Ivory Tower and experience "reality" O.K.?

Brasil is Brasil. Culture within a resepective country is - gulp - gosh - choke - reality - CULTURE!!!
Take it or leave it, nothing more or nothing less. Can your two brain cells compute what others think about American Culture - both good and bad?





USCIT
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11/29/2002
15:17:53
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Are you guys (gals?) comparing apples and oranges or what?

$800.00 a month U.S. working at McDonald's. In what city? What was the cost of an apartment? Transportation? Food costs? (you can't eat hamburgers ALL of the time.) And so on.

130R$.. in what city? What was the cost of an apartment? Transportation? Food costs? And the same so on.

Consider a person living alone. No family to help. I doubt if either is a 'living' wage. But that both are about equal in the poverty level for the respective countries.

As to using family, friends, connections to help get along in this world? Use the neighbors cat if that will help. Yes, a person needs work experience, but I have discovered through managing a mid-sized company and through self employment that one of the fastest ways to learn something is to be responsible for teaching others how to do it and being able to answer their questions. Or get kicked out on your butt or go broke. I did neither. I learned, very fast.




Patinho
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11/29/2002
18:41:56
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Good point USCIT,

This is something that bother's me very much. Ok.. so someone makes R$130 per month at McDonalds. I had a job offer in the Nordeste to make R$800 (and some change) per month, however, my freind says this is a terrible idea and that I would barely be able to afford the neccessities.

Neccessities being an apartment with a fan, and food. So.. if someone cannot survive on R$800 per month.. (In the Nordeste, of all places) then how is it even conceivable that one could survive on R$130??

I know that I am leaving out alot of details, but you get the point. At least in America, almost no matter where you live, a job a Mickey D's would allow a person food and shelter.

This is just a bunch of jumbled mess that I am trying to put into order for myself. I hope my point wasn't lost. If anyone has any suggestions or corrections to my statements, they are more than welcome to change my opinion.


USCIT
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11/29/2002
20:47:14
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Thank you Patinho. That was just what I was trying to determine. I well know both are extremely low wages (the 130 and the 800) but you got my point also. The comparison of other expenses.

One thing that stands out somewhat in your post is your friends thought that the idea of your working there at 800$R per month would BARELY meet expenses.

Wouldn't that be about the same as working at M D's for $800 a month in the U.S.? I don't know the cost of living where you live, but where I am food and shelter is just about all you would get at that rate if you could even manage that. One person, living alone.

Next comes roommates or finding some deserted shack the owner will rent for a few reais month and make it into 'home'. There are thousands upon thousands of people working in the U.S. that are homeless.

As to the person working for 130$R a month where-ever they are, they must be able to manage somehow or they simply couldn't do it.

All I can speak of is from personal experience, but I have traveled half way across the U.S. on a $10.00 bill. Hitchhiked from upper Alaska to lower Montana with $80.00 in my pocket. (Yes, I had to jump the Canadian border, they wouldn't let me pass, legally.) Worked at a job that paid so low I simply told the guy that owned the company there was no way possible to get a place to live on what he paid. Turned out he owned another piece of property he let me clean up and turn into an apartment. I've worked 3 jobs a day to make enough money to move on over the next hill. It was fun.

I am thinking that rent in the favelas would be quite cheap. And if one is working at McDonalds they can eat hamburgers. They might get sick and tired of them, but it is food.

Whatever. There is no solution that can be brought about on this forum. I sympathize, but...

I do wish you luck with your pending move to Brazil. I hope you find all that you want. Tell the world to stick it in their ear and do any goddamned thing you want. And get 'very' understanding girlfriends. Above all, have fun.


HPC
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11/30/2002
12:22:49
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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You can live with 800U$ per month

You cant live with 130R$ per month

This is my point

Many americans think that Brazil is a cheap place because now one dollar is almost 3,6 reais.




Patinho
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11/30/2002
15:03:43
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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That's besides the point, I meant living in Brazil with $R800 a month, not dollars.

Of course one could live on that amount in dollars in Brazil... that's nearly $R1,500.

What we are curious about is if one cannot manage on $R800 per month, then how is it even conceivable that one could survive on R$130 per month?


HPC
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11/30/2002
22:07:49
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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They almost cant survive, this is why there is so many poor ppl in Brazil...




Patinho
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12/01/2002
15:42:39
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Once again, the word "almost" comes into the sentence, leaving a very large grey area to be considered.


USCIT
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12/01/2002
15:56:42
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Precisely. Just as you and I have been saying, Patinho. 'Almost'. But somehow or another they do and the jobs keep getting filled.

And, that is also why I think you can make it on 800$R a month in Nordeste. Just survival until you get your feet on the ground and learn how to circumvent that, but its a start. Of course, when you say you love Brazil, I don't know how much of that love applies to Nordeste. <g> I hear it gets kind of warm there sometimes.


Patinho
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12/02/2002
02:41:43
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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USCIT-

I haven't really visited anywhere but the Nordeste. Most of what I know of Brazil is from that area. I have read extensively about other areas.... but the Nordeste is where my heart is.


USCIT
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12/02/2002
21:24:34
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Patinho,

This keeps gnawing at me so have to ask. You mentioned that $800.00 U.S. was nearly 1500$R. My calculations are that $800.00 U.S. are 2398$R. (Fluctuating some daily, but call it 2390$R.)

I'm not trying to be a wise guy or anything, but am I missing something? Is the official from the actual that much different? Curious.


Patinho
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12/03/2002
03:28:00
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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USCIT-

No... I just had a "brain fart" and I am glad you caught it. I doubled it for some reason.

I haven't been keeping up with the exchange rate in the past month, but I do know that when I went to Brazil on Oct 13 of this year, the exchange rate was nearly 4 to 1. I exchanged $500.00 when I got to SP and I had close to $R2000.00. Needless to say, it was a good two weeks considering I did not have to pay for most of my meals and and I stayed with a freind.


Down to earth
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12/03/2002
09:42:57
It's all going off...
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>>>Bruto Message:
Down to Earth - your sure are listing a whole bunch of non-sensical garbage. Go throw yourself from your Ivory Tower and experience "reality" O.K.?

Brasil is Brasil. Culture within a resepective country is - gulp - gosh - choke - reality - CULTURE!!!
Take it or leave it, nothing more or nothing less. Can your two brain cells compute what others think about American Culture - both good and bad?>>>>

What’s the matter with you brutish plonker? What’s this bollocks about “comparing cultures”? If I’m comparing anything is “competence” and “efficiency”? Be logic with that single-cell brain of yours, culture is not synonym of GOOD or RIGHT! Culture is about heritage, tradition, blalablbla…etc.. If beating your wife is part of your culture it doesn’t mean it’s GOOD, if eating fast is part of your culture it does not mean it’s GOOD, If keeping guns is part of your culture it doesn’t mean is RIGHT, if turning up at people’s house unannounced is part of your culture it doesn’t’ mean is RIGHT.

I am not surprised that for you, my message came across as “non-sensical” if such word exists, you like simple answers to complex problems because that's the way your brain works and because you want an easy life "for yourself" regardless if you live in a society or not. If every country had your “Brasil is Brasil”, “America is America”, “Zimbabwe is Zimbabwe” etc.. “culture” the world would not move on, would not change, nothing would be improved, nothing would be discovered. That tells us a lot about you…





Down to earth
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12/03/2002
09:51:37
In that case keep away from medicine or politics!
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>>>> As to using family, friends, connections to help get along in this world? Use the neighbors cat if that will help. Yes, a person needs work experience, but I have discovered through managing a mid-sized company and through self employment that one of the fastest ways to learn something is to be responsible for teaching others how to do it and being able to answer their questions. Or get kicked out on your butt or go broke. I did neither. I learned, very fast.>>>


USCIT I don’t get your point, you go on about apples and oranges and yet it seems that you are the one going off in a complete different subject.

Okay, so you are argument is to get experience on the job, through self-employment I believe. This is fair enough if tell me that you are running a print, publishing, internet agency or call centre etc… but TERRIFYING if you tell me that you are running a surgery or a pilot training centre.



USCIT
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12/03/2002
14:11:59
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Sorry I left you behind, Down to Earth. When someone writes, "As to..." and whatever is written beyond, that means they are changing the subject. An English idiom. Therefore, I was no longer refering to the apples and oranges subject.

The company I ran was a trucking company. When I didn't know how to drive a truck, just b/s'd my way into the job.

The self-employment was leasing several tug boats and related equipment in Alaska and becoming a beach logger.

And becoming a heart surgeon. I practiced by taking watches apart while operating one of the tugs during storms, to insure a steady hand. If you need an operation, call me. I have a very steady hand.


Down to earth
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12/03/2002
17:36:51
Very ticklish indeed...
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LOL excellent USCIT! Can I headhunt you?

cheerio



wacko
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1/04/2003
18:37:26
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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I THINK THAT BESIDE ALL THE BS WE READ, WE THINK
THAT BRAZILIAN GIRLS ARE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL AND
SEXIEST GIRLS ALIVE ON EARTH. NOT TO MENTION THAT
BRAZILIAN PEOPLE ARE VERY FRIENDLY AND HAPPY.
WE ARE GOING TO GET OUR FUCKING VISA SOON, SO WE
HOPE THAT SCARY BITCH IS NOT THERE TO SCREW OUR
FUCKING VACATION. MY ADVISE IS TO GET A LIFE AND
GO OUT AND GET YOURSELF SOME CORONAS BABY.


Fernando B
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1/04/2003
19:41:34
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Down to Earth
I agree with you when you say that one's need experience and bla, bla, bla. But you cannot generalize about Brazil burocracy. I've seen burocracy in US too! You guys need to fill a form each time you need to shit! When you go to a grocery and a clerk ask you if you find everything ok what you are looking for, and you say no! They crystalize! They are not prepared for anything different than the normal. I watched on TV FBI, CIA and others beating their heads about september 11th their systems do not talk to each other. Your INS is inefficient, lots of forms for nothing! Takes 2 years to analyze, check if one have the skills for a determined work! And INS does the same work done before for each time a allien change employers! amazing! I saw the efficiency of Enron, MCI, and others! Executives, CIOs playing with Memos. What a shame! And about technology the software industry selling softwares without testing properly, that's why there are lots of virus out there, you know why? Nobody test properly what they are doing! Believe me, I've been doing Quality assurance for long time! In Brazil they don't go work to get experience they go first to have something to eat! Struggle? We Brazilians know very well what this is! Inflation? You do not have an idea! In US, at any sign of weak economy, you guys stop, companies brake! We are more used to adversity. So gimme a brake!


Ezio Andrade
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1/31/2003
09:39:26
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Will everyone stop this nonsense argument?
Please let us work, struggle, fight, try, study and do whatever it takes
To make Brazil and The US a better place to live.
I am a Brazilian who has been living abroad for a long time and for sure
I am so fed up about comparing one’s country and culture to others,
Trust me, it does not work or help at all; it just hurt feeling and broadens jealousy and other meaning feelings.
Shall us look forward to better times?
I would like to say that you Americans are very welcome to my country, and by the way go back to the same consulate that you were rudely treated and complain to the consul, the appropriate person will definitely hear your voice and I am sure they will at least give a warning to the motioned woman.


Jay
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2/07/2003
09:45:42
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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You can beat the stress of the woman at the Brasil conculate in LA by going here...

Many beautiful tropical isle pics.

www.kauai-blue-lagoon.com


nycboy
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2/11/2003
16:05:03
RE: Rude woman in LA Brazilian Consulate
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Just two cents from some someone who actually worked at
McDonalds -- back in '92 when I was 17.

Minimum wage jobs only exists as a supplimental income.
Every company can not offer living wage positions. Minimum
wage jobs require a bit of communal living (you know, living
with your parents, living with a roomate, or two, or three)

Would McD's support my overpriced Manhattan apartment
now? No. But, low-wage jobs are a decent way to support
yourself or pool collective money with your family while you
aim for higher goals.

That's what I did with my US dollars. And that's what many
Brazilians are doing with their Reals.


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