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Quite Excited
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9/26/2002
08:36:37
Subject: Lula Lá? Who do you want?
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Elections are coming. Unless something still happens, my vote for the first time will be for Lula. I'm curious to know how people in this board are going to vote if they can or would vote if they could.
I hear that voters in the US for the first time will be voting through a computer terminal as everybody else in Brazil.


I Know it
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9/26/2002
08:42:48
RE: Lula Lá? Who do you want?
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Lula should win and kick the IMF amd World bank out of the country . These two american agencies are the reason that Brazil is so poor they have been looting the country for the last 40 years ander the guise of free markets and open markets.
This is a big con which has been perpatrated against 90% of all the countries around the world. That's why there is so much poverty and that's why the US is so rich. So the very first law shuld be to close the offices of the IMF and World Bank.
Brazil should not ask for foreign assistance. The country is big enough and rich enough not to ask for foreign help. Plus the people are smart enough to look after themselves. So all the corrupt foreign agencies should be kicked out and the Brazilian people themselves should build their country.
They don't need the US or Europe.

I Know It for sure


Alex
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9/26/2002
10:27:57
RE: Lula Lá? Who do you want?
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To suggest that Brazil's economic situation is a consequence
of the aid it continues to request and receive -- in the form of
hard and liquid capital from international lenders, and in the
form of intellectual capital through multinational corporate
obligations as outlined in long-standing and emerging
agreements -- is to further display the kind of thinking that
perpetrates adolescent economies in mature countries. Your
categorization of the IMF and the World Bank as "corrupt
foreign agencies" run by con artists and the subsequent
implication that the Brazilian people are exclusively smart and
good and able to look after themselves -- that everything
would be fine if the foreigners left -- is just plain ignorance. Of
course there are corrupt agents present wherever
multinational economics are discussed, but the same kinds of
corruptions certainly exist within the state as well.
Isolationism does not work, as any true protectionist will tell
you. Brazil needs to negotiate with the IMF and World Bank, if
only for the reason that avoiding economic discourse with the
rest of the planet will make it easier for developed,
economically allied nations to more easily "plunder" Brazil in
the future. And by the way, Brazil's depressed economic state
is the reason its government turned to the U.S. and Europe for
help, not the result of that help. I completely agree that Brazil
should not ask for foreign assistance; however, its present
debts make that impossible. A poor man who owes a friend
money can only ask for mercy and patience. And that, friend,
is a kind of assistance. It's a good thing the U.S. and Europe
are both kind and patient when it comes to the numerous
defaulted loans they suffer from less-developed economies. In
the meantime, whatever benefits European and U.S. lenders
are able to extract from their debtors are certainly
appropriate, even if they are not substantial enough to fully
meet the large amount of assistance offered.


Brazilian
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9/28/2002
10:46:37
RE: Lula Lá? Who do you want?
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It's not the International angencies that are corrupt it is the Brazilian political and justice system that is corrupt. Free markets create jobs when the government does not have large budget deficits and large problems managing debt!
The Free Markets are applied in China and in Russia and there economies are growing extremely strong cutting poverty and creating jobs! did you know that, do you read current news! AND you All Like the Left who complain about the system but what is your solution? you dont have one, closing brazil from the internattional stage would set brazil back to its old ways.
Even Lula the guy you supposely are going to vote for likes the IMF now, and he wants to talk to them, and he is talking a good game to the international investors, but Lula WIll never be President of Brazil. He lacks experience, and cant manage a country like Brazil!
I want to know something else too, if free markets dont work in brazil how come they work in China, Spain, Russia, India, South Korea, South Koreas never complains that the US is so rich and that they are poor.
BRAZIL'S PROBLEMS EXIST INSIDE BRAZIL AND YOU CANT NOT BLAME THE US, OR ANYONE else the Problems are inside Brazil, not outside! They have evolved their economy and have improved public education! NOW SERRA WILL WIN IN THE SECOND ROUND.
If you want to debate what i said email me at erjbcdt@yahoo.com, I am Brazilian too, and I want my country to benefit like all the other countries in the world HAve, and it will BECAUSE OF SERRA......sO BEFORE YOU THROW AROUND emotions GET THE DAMN FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


eurokid
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10/01/2002
19:01:51
RE: Lula Lá? Who do you want?
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Still gonna put my money on Lula though :). Although i still think the IMF is only helping the big international firms and I dont see the money going to the brazilian people. Wouldn´t be surprised if some of the money goes to the politicians. hehe


Sick
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10/02/2002
21:13:27
RE: Lula Lá? Who do you want?
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This is a book every Brasilian should read before voting. Actually, anyone interested in Latin American politics, culture and history should read it. It was intended for Latin Americans (and written by Latin Americans), but can be used as a great anthology by everyone. In this book you will see how, in this day and age, a country as diverse and with as much potential as Brasil could even contemplate electing someone like Lula. It's sad, but this book brings an understanding to this issue. Don't let the title of the book fool you, the authors are joking, sorta.

Guide to the Perfect Latin American Idiot

By: Plinio Apuleyo Mendoza, Carlos Alberto Montaner, and Alvaro Vargas Llosa


Sick
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10/02/2002
21:13:38
RE: Lula Lá? Who do you want?
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This is a book every Brasilian should read before voting. Actually, anyone interested in Latin American politics, culture and history should read it. It was intended for Latin Americans (and written by Latin Americans), but can be used as a great anthology by everyone. In this book you will see how, in this day and age, a country as diverse and with as much potential as Brasil could even contemplate electing someone like Lula. It's sad, but this book brings an understanding to this issue. Don't let the title of the book fool you, the authors are joking, sorta.

Guide to the Perfect Latin American Idiot

By: Plinio Apuleyo Mendoza, Carlos Alberto Montaner, and Alvaro Vargas Llosa


dan
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10/02/2002
22:09:59
RE: Lula Lá? Who do you want?
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Brazilians should vote for Jose Serra and not Lula. It is not that Lula would not be a good president it is that Serra would be better. Look clearly world economist know full well that emerging markets need a active state role in specific areas of the economy. Serra acknowledges this and this is part of his program. Serra is skilled in getting his objectives completed while Lula has been on campaigning since 1989 elections. Why did he not run for mayor, or governor and prove to the Brazilian people that he knows how to manage a complex administration.
The IMF and World Bank, admit their exists problems, but they not loot Brazil's wealth. Brazil has problems with debt because the government spends too much on consumption like pensions, salaries, for 3 million people and this hurts savings which could boost production and create jobs. Now this is hard to change because of Brazil constitution but it needs reforms. Also brazil suffers because the Real was 1 to 1 with the dollar which artically holds interest rates to a high level. Who is to blame in this situation that the debt level increase, not the IMF,or WOrld Bank, but the current administration.
Ok anyone who would like to debate me my ideas email me anytime and I will be sure to respond to you! erjbcdt@yahoo.com ask for Dan


Anonymous
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10/03/2002
00:06:53
RE: Lula Lá? Who do you want?
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To Euroman!:


Well I must agree that the IMF and the World Bank in the past made big mistakes but I dont understand why the IMF and World BAnk would want to loot Brazil? Most of their funding comes from the US, Brazil owes only 20billion of its 264 billion dollar debt. Actually 2/3 of Brazil's debt is held by domestic investors inside Brazil, so I see your point but you are going to have to prove to me that the IMF, loots Brazil and that Brazil old policy did not cause this entire mess. I cant wait for your reply,

Vote 45, Serra, YEAH!

Dan


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