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Mark
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12/08/2002
08:13:57
Subject: terrorism in Br?
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I just finished watching a TV advertisement paid for by the American Gov't. In this ad the issue of what percentage of illegal drug profits is funneled into the hands of terrorist's. A compelling issue in these times for many of us.

I was surfing the net and came upon a site detailing the level of illegal CD copying and distribution going on in the very south of Br. Three towns very close to the Argentinian border. A percentage of the illegaly gotten profits according to the report is funding middle eastern terrorist, specifically Al Queda.

I have also been informed that the newspaper O Globo every Wednesday carries 2 full page advertisements of pirated CD's for retail sale from local businesses. True ? How can the newspaper support such illegal activity ?

I recently had a computer built in Nova Friburgo, RJ. The company used pirated software and informed me after the fact that everyone does it.

Seems to me that if the first two issues are true that perhaps Brazil should be on the list of nations that support terrorism (support by way of acquessence.) Because the justice system is not taking an aggresive action against these illegal activites).

It is also a well known fact the the Brazilian Government under FHC ordered the illegal copying and continues to copy AID's drugs formulated by other companies/universities/ countries entities apparently ignoring international law as to copyright law.

Is Brazilian culture inherently dishonest ?

I have been told by a Brazilian I know that Portugal took the opportunity to send many of their convicted criminals to Brazil to decrese the prison population back in the beginning of Brazil as a colony of Portugal. If this is true could this be one of the reasons Brazilans today have the country that they do with the history that they have?

Just curious.


BOO
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12/08/2002
12:02:30
RE: terrorism in Br?
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You sure are jumping through a great deal of hoops to support a worthless topic. Get a clue - money moves the world -or- as the saying goes - money makes the world go 'round.

The same stuff that you outline for Brasil happens in EVERY city around the world. Ever been to NYC or Miami or LA or Seattle or Detroit...


Mark
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12/08/2002
12:57:47
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Yea, your right, and this article supports how worthless the topic is:
http://www.proutworld.org/news/en/2002/apr/20020418bra.htm



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12/08/2002
15:58:43
RE: terrorism in Br?
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You are really doing your homework Mark. Now excuse me, but what are these remmedies for? Yes smart guy, they are to save lives, or at least lessen the pain. They where not illegal, it is a right that we have, and that your country also used in the past.

As to piracy, contributing to terrorism? Please, stop being an ass. Have you ever seen those who sell piracy? Poor aren't they? It is because they need the money TO FEED THEMSELVES, not to finance terrorism. Things don't work like:
Piracy = Evil

Terrorism = Evil

Piracy = Terrorism

Now, please, don't tell me that you believe in this teory...


brazzaboy
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12/08/2002
16:42:11
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Well we are all aware of Geore W's interest in getting a major foot hold in Brasil in his attempt to control the entire Americas. Is this just another part of his political platform, will and propaganda ? Are we to see him threaten and use force on Brasil now? We are real lucky that Bin Laden popped up when he did as George W is a pure war monger, out to prove his power and authority. Flex his countries muscle at the drop of a hat, intimidate and violate all manner of peoples for his and his countries sake. Let us hope the great people of Brasil stand up to this powerful war horse and stop him dead in his tracks.

God Bless Brasil


adrianerik
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12/08/2002
16:42:46
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Let me understand these statistics.

Did you say that 3 million europeans a year left EUROPE for America at the beginning of the century?

And that Europe opened their prisons and sent their convicted criminals to America and Australia? What does that say about America?

Or am I reading the e-mail incorrectly?

And that it is 90% american money that supports drug cartels with a laughable 'war on drugs' in States?

Is that what is being said.

As for AIDS drug. If I get my hands on any I would make all that I can.

The profiting from the cure to the world's diseases is one of the most inhumane aspects of monopoly capitalism. The entire aspect of disease eradication should be taken out of the profiteering world and placed into a world human welfare aspect.

Finally, Europe and America (my country) has been and is still one of the most protectionist countries in the world.

There is not one country in the G7 (now G8) that did not develop its economic might without first protecting its industries and first allowing them to come to some degree of economies of scale so that they could compete on an equal footing with foreign markets.

We are taught this in the MBA program. (we just don't want others to know about it).

Peace


Mark
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12/08/2002
16:52:58
RE: terrorism in Br?
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They where not illegal, it is a right that we have”
You are offering a legal opinion of a right Brazilians have?
I am curious to know what Brazilian Federal or State Law sanctions and supersedes International Intellectual Property and Copyright Laws, smart guy.


“As to piracy, contributing to terrorism? Please, stop being an ass.”

Once again a person that cannot politely discuss a subject without resorting to adolescent behavior of calling names. Are we 15 years old ?

Have you ever seen those who sell piracy?
Yes, I have seen the owner of the computer store that built my computer and installed the pirated software; he resides in Nova Friburgo and Miami (owning businesses in both). Yes, I have seen the 5 Brazilians I work with (making US$60.000,00 p/ano) and I have seen the Brazilians I personally know who also have no compunction to possessing pirated materials.

“Poor aren't they? “
Who the purchasers, distributors or the Mafioso’s controlling the enterprise?
Apparently your reasoning supports criminal behavior based on the fact that a person considers himself/herself financially poor? Obviously you cannot know if this is the motivation of the sellers and distributors of pirated CD’s. Perhaps many of the people involved are simply criminals that prefer to smuggle and not to get an honest job paying their taxes.
You have quite a liberal viewpoint (legally\morally) speaking to excuse the criminal activity that were the points of the original post, in my opinion. But that is what I am seeking, to understand how Brazilians justify this law breaking to themselves and others.

“It is because they need the money TO FEED THEMSELVES, not to finance terrorism.”
A point I was making that perhaps was not clear or you did not understand was and is
How are the purchasers and retailers justified in the level of piracy that apparently exists in Br?
Is O Globo so poor it must accept advertisement of criminals?

“Things don't work like: Piracy = Evil, Terrorism = Evil, Piracy = Terrorism”

In your set of values apparently, I do not agree.
According to my values:
Piracy=Theft \ Illegal immoral actions = Not Good….evil.
Terrorism=Evil If you do not accept this you apparently are a terrorist.
Piracy=Terrorism Well smart guy, the point of the post was piracy can and apparently does financially support terrorism as does illegal drug use to some degree. My interest is how are the minor supporters now justifying their actions with this new knowledge? What will you have to say if terrorist release smallpox at Rio’s carnival? Will you the next day be consistent and hold to your values?

Your post did not add to greater understanding of any subject but it did reveal you to be rude and arrogant, in my opinion.



Maria
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12/08/2002
17:53:29
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Brazil is not doing anything wrong or against the law producing generics of AIDS drugs. Its permited by international copyright law to use an exception called: "Compulsory Licensing".

"Compulsory Licensing is a legal “backdoor” in international copyright law that allows countries to produce chemically identical versions of drugs during “national crises.” This allows semi-industrialized nations, those physically and economically able to produce the needed drugs, but who are experiencing “crises” themselves, to produce as much of a patented drug as they want. Both India and Brazil have taken advantage of such allowances, and are causing real competition for the mainstream international companies." (1)

But so far Brazil didn´t need to use this exception because the the copyright law was signed in 1995 (or around this), and, according to brazilian law, those drugs produced before the law, could be produced in Brazil if the owners of the patents didn´t do it in the country.


(1) http://home.attbi.com/~finlandfestivals/ev/history/rxdrugs.htm



Mark
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12/08/2002
17:54:48
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Adrianerik:

Did you say that 3 million Europeans a year left EUROPE for America at the beginning of the century?
Nope, never did.

And that Europe opened their prisons and sent their convicted criminals to America and Australia? What does that say about America?
Again No, what are you reading? Not Europe…Portugal specifically. Just as the UK did as regards Australia.
What does that say about America ? Nothing, America is not mentioned???
Read clearly now…PORTUGAL \ BRAZIL.

Or am I reading the e-mail incorrectly?
Yes, you are reading the post incorrectly.

And that it is 90% American money that supports drug cartels with a laughable 'war on drugs' in States?
Again, it is not 90%, Europe also has a major problem, the fact is that every country has a problem with drugs as you know, (Brazilian favelas are controlled by drug barons) it is just that the prices paid by first world consumers is dramatically higher, hence higher profits.
I don’t think that the millions of prisoners serving time in Federal & State prisons around the world would agree that the international war on drugs is a laughing matter. Perhaps you have family \ friend’s \ acquaintances that have a different sense of humor. It is good to see the silver lining in all…good luck to them.

As for AIDS drug. If I get my hands on any I would make all that I can.
You are a licensed Pharmacist?
If not, apparently issues of morality and legality don’t intrude on your quest to financially enrich yourself? How proud your parents must be.



The profiting from the cure to the world's diseases is one of the most inhumane aspects of monopoly capitalism. The entire aspect of disease eradication should be taken out of the profiteering world and placed into a world human welfare aspect.
And tell us what percentage of your disposable income do you donate to relief agencies in the world to ease human suffering? Put your money where your mouth is.
Cure…what cure? Pleasee tell us all !!

If and until your utopian world comes about you support immoral criminal behavior as defined by the laws of today?
So apparently capitalism is the scapegoat for you?
I hear Cuba and Vietnam are beautiful this time of year.
Ever read anything by Ayn Rand ? Human behavior is such that persons work best and hardest when they receive the benefits of their efforts and risk.


”Finally, Europe and America (my country) has been and is still one of the most protectionist countries in the world.”
Of course you have facts & statistics to back up this assertion?
You should immediately apply for the now vacant posts of Presidential Economic advisors, two are now open with your commanding knowledge of every country in the world’s trade laws, subsidies and the reasons they exist. You could then get your hands on aids drugs and disburse them without any legal basis and make a bundle. Oh, your parents must be so proud to have one of the smartest little girls in the world.
If entities researched, developed, risked capital investment I believe most people believe that these entities have a right to protect and recoup their expenses and profit for a measured amount of time. Why is it that other countries have been able to negotiate dramatically lower prices paid for these drugs without resorting to breaking the international laws?

There is not one country in the G7 (now G8) that did not develop its economic might without first protecting its industries and first allowing them to come to some degree of economies of scale so that they could compete on an equal footing with foreign markets.
Correct, and did they essentially do it respecting laws? You are justifying the illegal copying of another’s work. Here’s hoping that you develop something someday that cost’s you considerable time and expense…then have it ripped off. Will your utopian beliefs remain the same?


We are taught this in the MBA program. (we just don't want others to know about it).
Well, you might want to consider a refund, and watch your step up there on that white ivory tower.
Do you find it racist that the tower is white (lol) ?


Peace to you, sister.

PS: with your mindset I’ll bet you accessed Napster and downloaded, am I right? Don’t blush there are millions of you out there. Trying to justifying theft. Problem is, the argument fails the stink test.




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12/08/2002
19:23:28
RE: terrorism in Br?
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I'm rude with you Mark because I have no respect for your subversive ways to describe my homeland. If you only know how to deal with criminals, with no respect, go fuck yourself.

The only sweet words I have for you are:

"Get lucky and leave this country"

And try having a healthy life where you are now, which I know perfectly fine is far away from the curses you try to place on my home.


Randy Paul
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12/08/2002
19:35:17
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Actually Mark, as far as the illegal duplicating of copyrighted goods goes, the IFPI regards such countries as Paraguay, the Ukraine and Bulgaria to be the worst. Much of what is found in Brazil in terms of pirated goods originated in Paraguay.


USCIT
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12/08/2002
19:58:57
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Good response, Mark.

This has got to be one of the greatest collection of clap-trap that has been posted yet on this forum.

Zé, your comments about the poor little guy selling pirated material (stealing, or whatever in other posts) to eat are wearing thin. First of all, the poor little guy would not have the money to make the pirated copies. That takes money and organization for a sales network. They might USE the poor little guy, but the poor little guy didn't start it. A terrorist however has both. That being just one of their tactics. Anything and everything to degrade the economy of an enemy nation. Pick something with vast profits and break in. It not only degrades the economy of the country, it finances further action. Is Brazil an enemy of the terrorists? It certainly is if they practice Christianity. Have you never heard of jihad? The 'Big Satan' happens to be the prime target, but it certainly isn't the only target as many of their bombing tactics have so aptly pointed out. Your willingness to support this because of the poor little starving kids and to support your own self centered interests will help leave them dead kids if radical Islam has its way. As to this love for commies, well I guess history has no lessons for you, and it shows in the ignorance of your posts.

Brazzaboy, about the last place on earth right now little Bushy has an interest in is Brazil. As you might tell, I'm not a Bush fan, but I'm sure Brazil is way down on the list of international concerns. Unless it defaults on its debt. Then it becomes a world problem. It is known that Brazilian default will bankrupt at least two other Latin American countries and cause chaos throughout the financial world. A delightful terrorist tactic. Or tries to build a nuclear bomb. Then it shows how idiotic it is being run. One, or a dozen nuclear bombs against the U.S. 22,000 plus stockpile aren't really the concern. Its the mentality behind the making of them when both the U.S. and Russia are working out the means to reduce the stockpiles. Herr Lula wants a bigger slingshot? Drop him a note and suggest he initiate building something worthwhile. That the world will covet. He'll (You all) will get protected like a Nun's virtue. By all nations. Unless terrorists steal the idea and project.

AdrianErik. Heretofore, I had thought more highly of you. But steal the AIDS vaccine? Not a good plan IMO. As Mark so aptly pointed out, there is no cure. All that can be stolen is a drug that will prolong life. The drug companies are already giving it away free in Africa. What are they expected to do, go out of business so everybody gets one shot? Business takes capital. If you're in the business of making drugs, somewhere, somehow, you have to make a profit. Of course if you were a commie you could get it free. But then the commies went broke also. Something isn't quite clicking here. Gears in the mind? I've posted earlier on a practical way to bring an end to the suffering. But 'Oh lordy, lordy, we just caan't do that.' God will zap us right in the gonads. It'd rather millions died of AIDS right now than bring an end to the root cause of the suffering per some people. Sobeit. The next time I talk to God on a person to person basis, I'll bring up your points.

Europe opened its prisons and sent their convicted criminals to America and Australia. Yes. If you are talking about South America, specifically Brazil, and Australia, that did happen. It was the only way they could get settlers to come to a land that did not offer gold and other get rich quick benefits. They ORDERED the prisoners to make the passage. Back in the 1500's. Does that affect the mentality of the people of today? About as much as having a brother (niece, nephew, aunt, uncle, parent, or other family member) who is a thief. Would that make you one? Oh, oh. Forgot Sister.




Lucas
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12/08/2002
22:08:40
RE: terrorism in Br?
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A paranóia desses bonecos sobre o terrorismo já está indo longe demais... Chega até ao ponto de ser ridículo.

Zé, não sei porque cê ainda perde seu tempo discutindo com babacas desses... São arrogantes demais pra entender alguma coisa.




Anonymous
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12/08/2002
23:09:36
RE: terrorism in Br?
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I agree with USCIT who wrote..
"about the last place on earth right now little Bushy has an interest in is Brazil. As you might tell, I'm not a Bush fan, but I'm sure Brazil is way down on the list of international concerns."

Im not a fan of Bush either but the US isnt going after Brazil. And really, whats all this talk of terrorism? Ramming planes into a Federal Building, thats terrorism. Pirating songs/movies off the internet, or duplicating software...not terrorism. Its not really moral. Its not practicing good ethics, and maybe its stupid (at the most)...but its far from terrorism.


Adam
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12/08/2002
23:11:43
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Sorry, that was me in the post above


Adrianerik
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12/08/2002
23:44:52
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Perhaps you need to check your facts Mark or your history. England poured opened the doors to many of its prisons for a one way ticket to America.

Not to get under the level of discussive discourse. The point being YOU were the one to suggest that a trangression of some ancestor 3 to 4 hundred years ago affects the national character of a country today.

USCIT - go back to sleep. You obviously didn't have shit to say about this absurdity suggested by Mark but now you feel you must voice your righteous indignation when I make a rhetorical response to it.

I don't need your approval. The patronizing, patriarahcal attitudes of NEO-LIBERALS is just as disgusting to me as the racism of NEO-NAZIS. You are flip sides of the same coin.

Mark, the United States has cracked down on the symptoms of the drug market and the not the causes. Anyone with half a brain knows that the jails are filled with USERS of drugs and not those who undergird the market. You don't stop traffic accidents by going into the hospitals and arresting the patients.

Secondly, the most effective aids 'cure' has been the drug that prevents the transmissio of AIDS to the unborn child. Just 7 years ago there was a major report of the expected social problems to be caused by babies born with AIDS. That has not materialized because of this drug.

Free AIDS drugs in Africa??? Bullshit. There was just a major fight last year because Africa wanted to use duplicates of the drugs. American companies agreed to the price of $500 a dose. In a place where income might be $200 a year.

USCIT - you have accepted the profit motive for health care as the ONLY paradigm for health care that exists in the world. You will accept the deaths of millions because somebody needs to buy a Mercedes. And then you have the nerve to proclaim some Christian standard. Excuse me while I vomit.

I have many issues with Cuba's economic stances but NONE with their health care. The AMA in this country is upset because the CUBAN health care system has made major breakthroughs and discoveries and the AMA cannot use them because our government fears that CUBA will want compensation and that goes against the embargo.

You need to stop your red baiting use of the word 'commies'. Remedies offered in Cuba and many other countries are no different from the TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority) that brought electricty to the Appalachians and the massive American government programs that put returning GIs to work building roads, subsidised their homes, and paid for their education. (real 'commie' of America...huh?). As a matter of fact many McCarthy-esque Americans fought against these 'commie' programs of the New Deal and other government programs.

Mark - You are the one silly enough to suggest that I stated I wanted to make a profit from duplicating AIDS drugs. Read it again. Duh! Guess what...I duplicate English classes in Brazil for poor favela kids. Guess how much I make...not a damn dime. I put my fucking action where my mouth is. How much have your raped Brazil?

USCIT - There was an article in the New York Times about a meeting of businessmen just after the election of Bush. The topic was 'strategies on ensuring American economic domination' in the world marketplace. The right wing was so giddy after the elections that they did nothing to hide their bullshit.

The tactic of capitalizing on a market and invading it with inferior goods has been a hallmark of our countries business predators. From McDonalds to replacing pure juice with that 10%, 15%, 20% crap the cycle goes on. Several friends of mine were hospitalized from drinking the 'sugar water' that we call juice. We had to point out to them the juice content on the labels and warned them, that in this country, "caveat emptor" - buyer BEWARE! - is the rule of the day. One of the biggest fights in Europe against American goods is how much we allow lies to be sold with the packaging of products and how deceptive this in in countries where the people have little to no education.

And you accuse others of trying to capitalize on a good thing.

It takes .90 cents to make a CD. Of the $18.00 to $22.00 that a CD costs about .59 cents goes to the musician. TLC, after 5 grammies, and topping the charts, made about $59,000 a year - documented. There is a growing number of artists who hope to break away from the predatory music industry that creates no-talented fat cats while scraping the crumbs to the artists. The music industry was not created by the fat cats and will survive. But the dynamics of it should change. And will change. Maybe too deep for ya.

I won't even deal with terrorism bullshit. The biggest threat to the Brazilian people is Facism...(corporate control of the state), not communism...not Islamic Jihad.

In business school we studied the art of co-optation. How to get someone else to fight your fight.

I would suggest that the Brazilian people go to my business school and understand fully how they are being yin-yanged. It will be money well spent.

Finally....perhaps the subtlety is lost on you. AdrianERIK means male (maybe 'dude' for you), masculine, masculino, he-man.....whatever.

I admire females but I am not one. If you missed that...fine...a mistake - we all make them. But if it was a deliberate attempt for insult then...I will be at Copacabana beach on New Year's Eve (with my flowers and dipping my toes into the water) and, if your care to meet, will gladly introduce your face to the sands of Iemanja.

As I said...I am African-American. Not Brazilian. Not as peaceful as they. Maybe I'll work on that...maybe not. (not about being African-American - I'm damn proud of that - but being 'tranquilo' semulhante a Brasileros.

So..USCIT...how's that for more 'clap-trap'. And you used to work for Amnesty International. Very interesting.

Mark - Stop majoring in the minors!

Peace




USCIT
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12/09/2002
01:08:36
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Adrianerik,

What are you, trying for comedian of the day? Me post pro Christian, not on your life feller. I'm about as anti-Christian as you get. It might help if you learned how to read a little better. What was this about Amnesty International? I have never now, nor at any other time made any claim of any sort to any contact with the organization. You don't need my approval? I worded that statement incorrectly, as you don't have it. Sometimes your posts make sense. These last did not. Do I approve of profit? Of course. Unlike your apparant thought process, I do know what makes the world go around. Commies? Well if you get something for nothing feller, the only place I know of is in a communistic society. Until they go broke.

I'd like as well as anyone to see everything for free. Even just the necessities. But I have sense enough to know that is never going to happen in this lifetime. Might be time to get real and act where actions make a difference.


brazzaboy
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12/09/2002
02:21:31
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Begging your pardon gents, but America is on a major expansionist program under 'Bushy', he clearly wants to control the Americas and Brasil being the major factor in South America is his one major obstacle. He and his government have already coerced Colombia to cancel a major deal with Embraer of Brasil to take collection of, I believe, 27 new fighter jets at mega bucks and instead get the Colombians to convert their fleet of ancient US transport jets into something they are not. No doubt sending a team of Americans to complete the job, thus taking much needed money out of S. America and diverting it instead into the American war chest. Yes my friends 'Bushy' definately wants to destabilize S.America then go in with his own agenda.


Adrianerik
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12/09/2002
02:24:02
RE: terrorism in Br?
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USCIT - There is a big difference between market determined capitalism and monopoly capitalism. Between 'true' capitalism and oligarchies. They all make profits but........

The point I made is which industries should be profit driven. Is the defense of our country profit driven? Do the soldiers have to give a good return on the dollar?

As a society we determine which industries serve mankind best by being within the purvey of the marketplace and which should be dominated by the priorities of social concern, whether national defense or human and health welfare.

Technically, even our 'non-profits' must make a profit...in the pure economic sense of profit. The revenues of any enterprise must cover the cost. Costs already include the salaries of those involved.

However, with globalization we have emerged into an era of predatory capitalism that you perhaps need to understand. I don't have time to explain it in this forum. But Lula is absolutely correct when he says that 'blindly opening Brazils markets to the U.S. would be a virtual annexation of Brazil by the U.S.".

Just as we don't want our cotton and steel and sugar industries and agricultural industries to be 'annexed' by others so we impose high tariffs on them.

You can "Herr Lula" all you want. As one of my heroes Malcolm X says..."we hide our ignorance by the use of emotional labels".

You answer questions that I did not ask of you.

There are many ways to get things for free. First slavery. If that fails, then colonialism. If that fails, then neo-colonialism with massive support for rightwing thugs and fascists. If that fails, then monopoly capitalism with heavy does of co-optation. (note the adjective).

That's how Firestone got their rubber from Liberia for free.

And United Fruit got to own 66% of Cuba.

And the DeBeers stole the diamonds in South Africa.

And how we killed Lumummba and installed Mobutu (CIA documented facts) for the uranium and zinc in the Congo.

So that we Americans can pay $21 dollars for some tires and think that 'free-market-capitalism' makes the world go round and our tires so cheap.

I have no problem with emerging economies embracing 'aspects' of free market capitalism. The strength of a society is in the imagintion of the efforts of their people.

But they can never do it like America or Europe did it. There is not much else to steal.

Peace.

ps - Must have been the other dude moaning over the woman who 'jerked' him that was with Amnesty International. If that was not you...my apologies. Didn't mean to ruin your....uh...ummm....er...reputation.

pps - I don't have your approval? I feel hurt.


brazzaboy
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12/09/2002
02:55:14
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Yes Lula is right in this situation. He must stand firm against all American advances and incursions into Brasil.


USCIT
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12/09/2002
03:16:13
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Hey, hey!! We found something upon which to agree. You feel hurt that you don't have my approval, and I feel hurt you damaged my... reputation. To about an equal extent. Knowing, of course, that you couldn't damage my reputation with a Tolstoy length novel. You haven't the intellect.

Random selections. Debeers stole the diamonds of Africa? Buy a history book. It wasn't Debeers. They came along later.

Market determined capitalism vs monopoly capitalism? Last I checked, a monopoly was illegal in the U.S..

Am I answering questions not asked? What are you, the dictator of my posts? I don't think so. Although I can think of other appellations to apply.

I hope to hell anyone who pays @21.00 for a tire stays to hell off the highways I'm driving. I don't want their blowouts to be my wreck. You will stay in Brazil won't you?

They can never do it like America and Europe did it. There's not much else to steal? Feller, you are in the 3rd world. Pull your head out of the sand and take a look around you.

WE did not kill Lumummba. He was a total despot and his own people killed him.

Go back, again, and study history. There is and has been for a very long time an unwritten rule among leaders of countries that they do not kill one another. They know that once started any leader any where is an automatic target. Even more so than he/she is now from crackpots. That is why Sharon has never actually harmed Arafat. He hates him, but is abiding by the 'rule'. That is also documented. Saddam Hussien's attempt on George Bush Sr. was the last attempt, and Jr. is certainly seeking him out.

More posts you didn't ask for? Ah... so sorry.


Adrianerik
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12/09/2002
07:21:22
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Of course we protect our own country. After the fiasco of the Great Depression and the establishment of the FDIC (bank insurance that limits your losses to $100,000) we have strong anti-trust legislation in the United States...to some degree. However there was an article in the New York Times last week about the interlocking directorates (members of the boards of directors of major corporations) and their conflict of interests and how, virtually, many of our industries, if not monopolies, come close to being one.

The two biggest threats to a monopoly are 1) ease of entry into the market of another competitor and/or 2) an organized consumer group.

The problem in many so-called third world countries is that the barriers to entry are insurmountable or politically unfeasible if local businessmen have an interest in the foreign business. And many times the consumers of that emerging economy have no clout because they are only laborers. The products are sold elsewhere so the ethical threat of boycotts (that we effectively use here in the States) have no effects on the humane treatment by the companies.

We are not talking about the United States. We are talking about the automatic dismantlement of third world industries and de-facto monopolies when these businesses take over countries that have no anti-trust legislations. And the oligarchies in these countries profit from these contacts and don't want anti-trust legislation.

As a classroom example....look at the fiasco taking place in Russia right now.

I believe that was the point...wasn't it.

Don't kill other leaders. Please. For Lumummba...once again go to the Library of Congress and under the freedom of information act see the revelations of our actions against Lumummba. One of the CIA operatives admitted that the go-no/go decision on Lumummba was up to him and he now regrets his decision.

Not my story...his.

Oh...did a CIA actually shoot him? Did a CIA person actually kill Allende? There was a reason after the Allende debacle (he was a socialist elected by 70% of Chileans in a completely fair election) that then, and only then, our country passed a law against the assasination of other countries' officials. That was in the late '70s.

You have no idea how much of your 'intellect' you show by your responses. They are right out of "Patriotism for Beginners".

If you want documented facts for our support of Batista (Cuba), Somoza (Nicaragua), Pinochet (Chile), all of the Brazilian Generals, Baby Doc and Papa Doc (Haiti), Trujillo (Dominican Republic - and he was a beast!!!) and the tens of thousands they murdered with our help then I'll give then to you.

All of these were dictators who ruled by the will of a minority over the majority with the financial support of our government.

Peace

ps - Tolstoy wrote a long but over-rated piece. A bit melodramatic and used as mostly show for vapid intellectuals on coffee tables.

I prefer the shorts - Guy De Maupaussant (love the French) and some of Kafka's (amazing) And from my Black Folks - a good Alice Walker although Chinua Achebe still excites me. ARROW OF GOD is a classic.

I don't hit people over the head with them though. Better things to do with books.

Peace Out!

Ps - I'm in Philly right now...not Brazil. Watch yo'sef.



Guest


12/09/2002
10:13:25
RE: terrorism in Br?
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I will avoid entering this heated discussion and just point to uscit that you only need a cheap computer and a cdrom writer to do copy cds, not exactly a huge investment.

I'd like to point out to Uscit and Mark that I really don't believe in terrorist attacks in Brazil. I won't bother to discuss it since every single discussion in this board eventually falls into rethorics.


Randy Paul
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12/09/2002
10:56:49
RE: terrorism in Br?
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USCIT: The Belgians killed Lumumba, we just looked the other way and supported Mobutu who robbed the country blind and who was a far worse despot than Lumumba


blame Canada
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12/09/2002
11:38:18
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Just wanted to say I agree with Mark's point, or what I think was his point, and that is the lackadaisical attitude you find in Brazil about various criminal activities is perhaps not a healthy thing considering the fact that these people like to kill as many non-believers as they possibly can. It's well known that Al Queda DOES operate in the Brazil/Paraguy border area, and that they will take advantage of weaknesses in your system, just like they did here in the USA pre- 9/11.

oh, and Brazzaboy, I read these notions that we want to take over Brazil and just laugh. You can't be serious, can you? If you are, can I have some of whatever you're smoking?


USCIT
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12/09/2002
11:39:15
RE: terrorism in Br?
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The man's name was Lumumba. Patrice Lumumba. One 'M'. Or are you right and the rest of the world wrong? The CIA agent regretted his action? For what? That he didn't kill him?

Lumumba was killed the night of January 17, 1961 by a firing squad headed by a Belgian and with President Tschombe (and two others of his cabinet) of the Katangese province in attendance. A direct result of his speech of June 30, 1960 wherein he severely angered the King of Belgium, and his actions following that. Witness was a Belgian policeman, Gerard Soerte who was the person assigned the task of 'getting rid of the bodies' which he and Katangese worker of Katanga's interior dept. disolved in an acid in a Belgian run mine nearby under the orders of Katanga's Interior Minister. This was all done under Belgian authority with President Tschombe, Lumumba's most bitter enemy, in complete concordance and in attendance. As posted by BBC correspondent David Akerman. The CIA had nothing to do with it.

Get a grip little feller. You're information source at the CIA isn't doing you much good and I could not care less where you are. Your big mouth and limited intellect do not disturb me at all, in fact, it is starting to bore me.

Do I need facts on the others you mentioned? I have them, thank you very much.

Oh yes, once again, do learn to read. I didn't say anything at all about a Tolstoy QUALITY novel, I said LENGTH. But what was the matter, was War and Peace beyond your comprehension?

You confuse your facts with your apparant inability to read. Suggesting that I cite Christianity, that I have something to do with Amnesty International, the death of Lumumba, which you cannot even spell, and so on makes me rather doubt any of your information. I will not be responding further to your posts. Your radical babblesqueak is boring.


brazzaboy
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12/09/2002
12:41:31
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Is that you Patinho? Yes I am very serious. When it happens you can apologise. I only hope I am the one to apologise if it does'nt happen. The writing is on the wall though. If you choose to look the other way that's your problem.


Anonymous
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12/09/2002
13:48:43
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Brazzaboy,

are you really serious? You gotta give up that crack pipe, man, really...

Um, what writing on what wall?

Please, I am really interesting in learning why, of all places, we want to take over Brazil. This oughta be good.





Guest


12/09/2002
18:18:55
RE: terrorism in Br?
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To Blame Canada:

To quote Mark:
"Seems to me that if the first two issues are true that perhaps Brazil should be on the list of nations that support terrorism (support by way of acquessence.) Because the justice system is not taking an aggresive action against these illegal activites)."

Do you agree with this?


Adrianerik
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12/09/2002
18:21:18
RE: terrorism in Br?
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One of the documents recently declassified available at the Library of Congress

=================================================
"In high quarters here, it is the clear-cut conclusion that if [Lumumba] continues to hold high office, the inevitable result will [have] disastrous consequences . . . for the interests of the free world generally," CIA Director Allen Dulles wrote. "Consequently, we conclude that his removal must be an urgent and prime objective."

==================================================Why cut and paste from kiddie history books when you can go to the source????

The FRAPH (murderous rapists in Haiti) funded by our government were so proud of their U.S. support that they papered the wall with U.S. documents providing them with supplies. So we (friends in Lavalas) made copies of them. On WYBE Channel 35, here in Philly we did a show interviewing the raped victims of these former TON-TON MACOUTES.

Okay...I digress...

I won't make this an issue. When I responded to Mark you were not on my radar, dude. You're still not. You inserted yourself. Peace Out!

Radical? That I am. Patrick Henry was Radical. Thomsas Jefferson (slaveowner though he be) was radical. Benjamin Franklin was radical. As was Malcolm, King, Angela Davis and Mandela.

Another worthless use of a label. (you really should study Malcolm).

A man who has not found a thing worth dying for is a perpetual adolescent.

And my bite is worse than my bark. I'm not some fat dude with no friends who has nothing to do but post on internet forums. My actions speak. If you happen through Salvador, or Bangu, or Rondônia (where we're organizing to sponsor the college education of black women there) we'll greet ya. But come correctly. Disrespect won't be tolerated. My place is in Boca Do Rio near Aeroclube. Four bedrooms but I'll probably turn them into classroom space.

By the way...you should never 'believe' anything someone tells you. Scrutinize. Verify. But truth is like a red-hot brand sometimes.

If you are a real American then believe in the preamble to the Declaration of Independence (you know the one about "we hold these truths to be self-evident....."and so on) and then get radical about those systems in this world that contradict our beautiful document.

Peace



Randy Paul
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12/09/2002
18:40:31
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Just for the record the Declaration of Independence does not have a preamble. You're thinking of the Constitution.


Patinho
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12/09/2002
21:43:02
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Brazzaboy,

Umm... is who me? I haven't posted about this subject.


Adrianerik
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12/10/2002
01:28:44
RE: terrorism in Br?
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@Randy Paul - Actually the words are from the Declaration of Independence (second paragraph).

Although you are correct...it is not a preamble. It is part of the actual body of the document.

Thanks
Peace


Randy Paul
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12/10/2002
03:58:19
RE: terrorism in Br?
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I know the words are from the Declaration of Independence. The preamble of the Constitution starts with "We the people of the United States of America in order to form a more perfect union . . ."


brazzaboy
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12/12/2002
03:15:04
RE: terrorism in Br?
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I hope everyone contributing to this thread has read Jeromy Roy's message in Beware, Lula, Mr.President. You will see everything explained as to US intentions, and their subversive efforts at world control through any means.


Patinho
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12/12/2002
04:42:04
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Ok... I have been silent long enough about this. And I know my post will be attacked, due to the fact that I have nothing positive to add and most my comments are based on emotion.... but here goes nothing.

Why do certain people on this forum act as if the US is about to launch an all out nuclear attack on Brazil?

In one of the 1st posts, Brazaboy said" Well we are all aware of Geore W's interest in getting a major foot hold in Brasil in his attempt to control the entire Americas. Are we to see him threaten and use force on Brasil now? We are real lucky that Bin Laden popped up when he did as George W is a pure war monger, out to prove his power and authority. Flex his countries muscle at the drop of a hat, intimidate and violate all manner of peoples for his and his countries sake. Let us hope the great people of Brasil stand up to this powerful war horse and stop him dead in his tracks."

I mean come on! Give me a break! What does Bush's "War on Terrorism" have to do with Brazil? And as far as him "flexing his muscles".... good for him. I mean, people, get a grip. We were attacked! Let's see someone fly a plane into the Cristo Redentor Statue and see who you call and if you change your tone.

By the way..Mark, selling pirated CD's in no way supports terrorism, I don't care what the article you read said. It's just more stupid American prpoaganda post 9/11. Just like the stupid commercials that tell me if I buy a dime bag of weed.... a Columbian family died today. sheesh... lighten up will ya?

As far as your computer having pirated parts... hey, they did what any company intends to do.... maximum profit with minimum spending. They just have their own way of doing things. But don't worry... I am sure they sent a check to Bin Laden for your pirated CD burner. Just get over it.

We all live in a "I'm gonna get mine, before you get yours" mentality. That goes for entire countries as well. Every person, company, country is out to acheive money and power, sometimes by any means neccessary.

Can't we all just agree that we live in a corrupt world? But the point is to make the best of it, get on with our lives and die.

Bush and America have no interests in Brazil or any other countries other than making a quick buck. We don't won't Brazil's land or anything else, free.... I might add.

And as far as anyone supporting Bin Laden, fuck him, fuck you, and anyone that looks like you or him. That man should die locked in a portable toilet located outside of NY Mets stadium and rot in hell.

I apologize if I offended anyone with my language, I normally do not use vulgarities in my posts, however, those of you that know I am speaking directly to you... take every word to heart.

So... now then... can we just all relax, sit back and sip a little cachaca together and talk about the fact that Bush never speaks when Chaney is drinking water? Check that shit out!

(Not my joke... it's Robin Williams)



brazzaboy
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12/12/2002
05:03:04
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Well Patinho, we aggree on one thing. Bin Laden deserves the most miserable and painful death anyone could inflict on someone else and I am against murder of any sort even capital punishment. This man has clearly shown he is in league with the devil and must be eliminated and I support every effort by US/UK and anyone else to rid the world of him and all of his ilk. What I am talking about is the US's intentions of colonising directly or indirectly. This fact cannot be denied, they continually interfere in affairs of foreign nations to further their own greed and power base. Why do you think this whole problem has arisen in the middle east. They are only there as a result of the oil and the potential to create puppet powers in the area a la Saddam in Iraq who had the full backing of the US as one of their men in the region. Let's not forget about Venezuela which is recognized now as one of the leading petroleum producers in OPEC, where are they located, South America. Brasil despite its socio-economic woes is still the major power broker in the southern continent thus the US has and is still trying to cozy up to them in their attempt to get a foot hold in that continent. Middle east dries up what next a major oil and petroleum producing country right on the doorstep. Yes they are clearly interested in getting into South America not just for the oil but all the other natural resources down there, Gold, Prcious stone, water. Think logically my children, you will ultimately come up with the answers.


blame Canada
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12/12/2002
08:55:02
RE: terrorism in Br?
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brazzaboy, you really gotta give up that crack pipe man, it's gonna kill ya!

Every country seeks to protect their own interests in the world, Brazil included. And yes, the USA has made some dubious policy choices in the interest of keeping the oil flowing from the middle east. (btw, that is in Brazil's best interest as well, so remember that the next time you gas up your car).

And yes, misguided US government officials have done many a nasty clandestine deed to protect our so called interests. Most of these have back-fired and ended up doing more harm than good, in my opinion anyway.

That is all fine and simple and easy to understand.

I am sure I am not alone in flabbergasted astonishment at what you read into this state of affairs. Somehow you see a US plot to "rule the Americas," as if an invasion in South American is a foregone conclusion and likely to happen anyday. I am still chuckling at the silliness of this notion of yours.

Hell, Bush can barely convince the citizens of the USA that an invasion of Iraq is a good idea, and he has a long list of valid justifications for that action. Imagine the reaction in the US if the New York time headlines were to one day read "US Troops Land on Beach in Ipanema, Bombing Strikes Destroy Brasilia." There would be a mass protest across this country (USA) the likes of which you've never seen.

US citizens don't like to send their sons and daughters off to die in war unless there is no other choice. There is absolutely no reason to even consider any military action in South America. The very idea is simply absurd.



brazzaboy
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12/12/2002
09:51:49
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Once again good buddy you have got the wrong end of the stick, not surprising if you are from Canada. I never once said the US is going to or plans to invade S.America, but it is headed in the same direction as with the middle east. They are interfereing with S.American countries policies already trying to sway one country against the next. It is called political and economic terrorism which the US is past, present and future masters of. They also wish to set up military bases in S.American countries which is another sign they want to have a controlling say in all that develops in the Americas. I say this is WRONG. If you don't then we differ and that is that. You certainly have a right to your opinion as do I. By the way I don't smoke, drink and never touch drugs so please get off your high horse on that point also.



blame Canada
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12/12/2002
10:10:15
RE: terrorism in Br?
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I'm not Canadian, that's just a joke from the South Park movie, if you didn't see it, never mind...

Of course we want to look after our interests across the globe. I guess our difference is the amount of "controll" you are talking about.

We have military bases in a number of countries, and none of them are suffering from our "control," are they? Most of them benefit from them, although the Koreans have a different opinion at the moment...

The crack comment was a joke too, dummy. No high horse intended. Some of my best friends are on drugs! Anyway, if you're not, how do you explain your outrageous paranoia? Maybe you should see someone about that, before it gets out of hand.


brazzaboy
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12/12/2002
13:18:25
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Not paranoia DUMMY. Facts. Wait and see. Have you ever thought that not one of these countries enjoy having US bases in their country, just go and ask the citizens. No foreign power should be allowed such arrogance as to think they have a right to place their military within a sovereign states border, Many of your friends are on drugs, well I could've guessed that maybe explains your mixed up fumble butt mind and seeing things in posts that are not there. Can you spell HALUCINATIONS. Get over yourself tough guy wake up and smell the roses like the rest of us.


blame Canada
Guest


12/12/2002
14:04:00
RE: terrorism in Br?
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heh heh, he said fumble butt... that was funny...

um, anyway, most of our bases are in countries where they are very welcome by the hosting government, so there is nothing arrogant or whatever about it.

maybe some of the local citizens don't care for the rowdy drunken antics of 18 year old dolts in uniform stationed thousands of miles away from home, that is quite understandable.

but hardly a foundation for your paranoid delusions, dude. Get a grip.


blame Canada
Guest


12/12/2002
14:15:16
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Message:
and speaking of hallucinations, after reading your original post above, it sure sounds like your a'fearin an imminent invasion any day now... lets see, what did you say?

"Geore W's interest in getting a major foot hold in Brasil in his attempt to control the entire Americas"

oh really now. Got any evidence to support this nutbar claim?


"We are real lucky that Bin Laden popped up when he did as George W is a pure war monger, "

I live in NYC, and I know several people who worked in the towers that day and barely survived, and one guy who wasa friend of mine that didn't, so I ought to be angered by this comment. But it's just so silly, I can only laugh.




"Let us hope the great people of Brasil stand up to this powerful war horse...
"
oh, yes, the horse is on it's way, pulling a mighty chariot...

NOT...

here's your full quote, to save you the trouble scrolling.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Message:
Well we are all aware of Geore W's interest in getting a major foot hold in Brasil in his attempt to control the entire Americas. Is this just another part of his political platform, will and propaganda ? Are we to see him threaten and use force on Brasil now? We are real lucky that Bin Laden popped up when he did as George W is a pure war monger, out to prove his power and authority. Flex his countries muscle at the drop of a hat, intimidate and violate all manner of peoples for his and his countries sake. Let us hope the great people of Brasil stand up to this powerful war horse and stop him dead in his tracks.

God Bless Brasil


brazzaboy
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12/12/2002
15:13:28
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Message:
Read it again tough guy. It starts 'Are we to see. I never once mentioned he was about to go to war or invade. 'Are we about to see him flex his muscles and use force' Could that possibly mean Political force or are you so dense that I would think he would invade Brasil. He might be very powerful but I dare say Brasil would give him a damn good fight better than the Iraqis. So no dumb bunny I don't think he will use military force but political force which is what the US is just as good at as military. Got it straight now pretty boy?


blame Canada
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12/13/2002
08:06:39
RE: terrorism in Br?
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well, I liked "fumble butt" better than dumb bunny...

and how did you know I was pretty? I am, of course, but who told you???

and once again, we are talking about a degree of control that our great nation may or may not be seeking in the southern hemisphere. Of course the USA seeks to influence matters that concern our interests, in the political realm. So does Brazil. Blah blah blah.

but, once again, this state of affairs doesn't justify your hystrionic "watch out for George the war monger he wants to rule the world" tone in your posts.

And now you're backtracking and splicing your semantics ala our former president Mr. Clinton ("...depends on what your definintion of 'is" is...."), but your posts DO sound like you believe the USA has hostile warlike intentions on "ruling" south america.

ah, anyway, this was fun, but I think we've beat it to death. See ya...


Mark
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12/15/2002
08:22:45
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Maria: thanks for the cursory education about the apparent illegal AIDS drugs copying, I will look into this, it interests me.

Adrianerik: you asked me what I have personaly risked to make Brazil better; my answer:
my personl retirment (401K) plan worth in todays dollars US$500,000.00 and expected to be worth twice that when I planned to retire. I personally filed for and received a chapter 7 bankruptcy last year as a result of a 8 year fight trying to save the life of three Brazilian children from remaining in the company of a band of criminals (murderers & more).
Don't even try to challenge my credentials "of caring".
adrianerik did you not identify yourself as a black USA female in previous post's, have you changed your gender ?

It has been amazing to read the digression of opinions and attitudes to the requested subject matter.
Only a few addressed the originally posted subject, most of the rest got off on their own rants.
I read several thinnly disguised justifications for illegal CD copying. No responses to the % that is apparently (not just USA media is of this opinion) funding Al Queda, Hezzbollah et al.
No information was posted that represents Brazils apparent (media reported) pro Palestinian \ anit Isreali stance and if this has any influence in the matter.

My suggestion to the posters that want to get off the subject matter is start your own thread for your digressions of subject. If a person is interested in the subject matter of the thread your digressions are a distraction, my opinion.
A few (Ze specifically) even wasted our time to log on and add absolutely nothing to understanding the subject matter except to essentially write "Brazil love it or leave it", he even had the audacity to state this in such vulgar speech had he done this in person he likely would have had his nasty mouth bloodied.
Ze get a life, if you have nothing to add to the subject matter at hand in a responsible, civil perhaps even polite tone, leave us alone, keep your nasty sentiments to yourself ( or is this the only forum that allows you to express yourself?).

Apparently, I have my answer, the original reason for this post. Of the 3-5 Brazilians that have responded to the subject matter at hand the majority do not accept any responsibilty to not purchase, own or support in any way the alleged terrorist backed illegal CD copying enterprise in their country.
Additionally, none responded to the apparent common practice of businesses licensed to do business practicing in the illegal distribution\sale of pirated material.

This is the Brazil I know, thank-you all for your contribution, including you Ze. You response is indicitive of many Brazilians attitudes "accept our faults and shut-up about it, & fuck you for mentioning it!".

Ze you are a poster boy for non tourism to Brazil. Congratulations!


Adrianerik
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12/15/2002
17:40:18
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Mark - don't let me have to light into your pompous ass. You're the one I confused USCIT for.

This is not your personal forum. If you want to control a forum than go to Yahoo Groups and start one called Mark.

If you don't like certain posters. Then try a device called a scroll key and bypass them.

And if you elect to say some silly shit on this forum and I elect to address it that's my perogative.

And you'd best refrain from the personal. I stated a while ago that I'd refrain from commenting on your personal child-woman-wife-gigolo-murder issues.

There are vast holes in your story but it doesn't interest me.

But I have reason to believe that your ego is infinitely more fragile than mine.

So you need to keep a civil tongue in your head.

ps - Last I looked I'm still absolutely male and beautifully African-American.

But so what???

You do major in the minors.



Guest


12/15/2002
20:36:09
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Mark: I had nothing against you untill you started spitting lies about my country. You said that we do not contribute to the UN
...that we contribute to terrorism
...that it is illegal for a country to produce its own remedies to save lives
...that our culture is inherently dishonest
...that our borders are closed to immigration
...that 90% of our population is untruthfull
and so goes on...

Do you expect me to stay quiet? Do you even expect to stay in one piece if you complain any louder? You know, Alnicom in his dellusions thinks that the american government is evil, and everyone jumps to his throat, you expect me to write flowers when you try to tarnish me, my ancestors, and of every single brazilian??!!

Learn to control your "bluntness", and you will get more respect.


Patinho
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12/15/2002
22:52:16
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Ze-

You wrote "...that our borders are closed to immigration", and obviously you disagree with this statement.

Can you tell me how to immigrate to Brazil, without joining a religious cult, donating $200,000.00, or having a retirement income of $2,000.00 per month?

I am not picking a fight, I really am curious if you know a simple and quick way for a person such as my self, a regular guy, to immigrate to Brazil. Because I would be willing to consider almost any alternative compared to the hell I am going through now trying to get there legally.

Thanks in Advance for any ideas.

Feel free to e-mail me.

Patinho__@hotmail.com



Guest


12/16/2002
04:32:09
RE: terrorism in Br?
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I could try to ask a few foreign immigrants that I know, but you must give me some time, and I doubt that it will give you much of an insight.
My guess is that you will have to live here for some time in clandestinity, and then legalize your situation when the requirements are achieved.

Be aware though that it is far harder and demmanding to survive here than it is to take an ocasional trip whenever your soul fells like.

The only redemming though that I can think of is that I've only heard of criminals (cruel/evil ones) being deported. Some of our laws are treated with far more flexiblity that some would like them to be, lucky you immigration laws are one of the most "flexed" of them.

I only ask you to not make a mistake, because the price for one may be more than what you can afford.


Alex Furtado
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12/31/2002
08:37:04
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Caro Mark:

O seu raciocínio parece ser o seguinte: como o Brasil não age energicamente contra a pirataria de CDS ( isto é fato notório ) e a pirataria de CDS suporta com recursos econômicos o terrorismo internacional ( isto é um hipótese que precisa de comprovação), o Brasil seria um país que suporta o terrorismo.

Entretanto,

Sabemos que os Estados Unidos deram apoio bélico e tecnológico à ditadura de Saddam contra os iranianos. Além disso, treinaram os seguidores de Bin Laden contra os russos no Afeganistão. Afinal, se o Brasil tem alguma responsabilidade no terrorismo atual ( em razão de uma débil repressão ao contrabando e a pirataria), a responsabilidade dos Estados Unidos não seria maior?
É ofensivo para os brasileiros afirmar que o Brasil é um nação que suporta o terrorismo. Ofensivo e injusto.

Rotular o Brasil de país que faz parte da lista dos que suportam o terrorismo é forma de pressioná-lo a agir com energia contra piratas e contrabandistas. E a quem interessa este discurso?
as empresas multi-nacionais que perdem dividendos com estas atividades ilícitas. Talvez no futuro, a imprensa internacional intensifique esta associação entre o Brasil e o terrorismo, uma vez que há grandes somas de dinheiro em jogo.
Quanto a quebra da patente de medicamentos contra a AIDS, foi perfeitamente legítima. Não há direito absoluto, de fato. Um direito de menor importância deve ser sacrificado perante um direito mais relevante. Sacrificar o direito autoral das empresas farmacêuticas para salvar vidas humanas é ético e jurídico.

Quanto a indagação se o a sociedade brasileira é inerentemente desonesta, a resposta é não. Pensar diferentemente seria alimentar preconceitos.

Podemos afirmar que os ingleses são inerentemente desonestos porque introduziram o ópio na China para melhor subjugar aquela nação, ou que são ladrões por natureza, porque os seus corsários foram apoiados pela coroa britânica? Não seriam todos os australianos desonestos, porque muitos criminosos degredados construíram aquele país?

Creio que não.
Abraços, Alex Furtado.


Fernando B
Guest
 Email

12/31/2002
15:58:24
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Message:
Alex Furtado

Parabens pelos comentarios




Down to Earth
Guest


1/01/2003
18:53:35
RE: terrorism in Br?
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Message:
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.

I know that it is quite predictable but I still think that this rings a lot of bells don’t you think?



Brazilian Girl
Guest
 Email

1/05/2003
08:28:53
RE: terrorism in Br?
IP: Logged

Message:
Illegal acts, copying CDs, drug dealing happen in Brazil as much as it happen here in the USA. if you want to learn and understand that in Brazil just understand your own country! :)


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