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american man
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12/19/2002
09:28:53
Subject: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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I recently made a judgement error with a Br. female friend.She seemed pretty upset,but it really wasn't a big deal,nothing life altering.I've avoided her to let things cool down,but i don't know if she's going to hold a grudge.In general,are Brazilians forgiving of people being idiots?I really miss her,but i don't want to make things worse.


Jack
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12/19/2002
14:43:33
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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The last thing you wanna do is piss-off a
Brazilian women, we are talking "wrath of God"
stuff here and no they don't forget, maybe
forgive, but it will take time.


Patinho
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12/20/2002
00:46:03
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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With all things, it depends on the woman.

There's a saying "You know why men forget the mistakes we've made in a relationship? There's no sense in both of us remembering it. (refering to a woman)

I messed up once, I was supposed to go from Teresina to Rio, but the flight was overbooked and by the time I would've got there on another flight, I would only have 1 day to visit her in Rio... So I did not go. She still will not look at the vacation photos from Teresina.. that was 4 years ago.

Good luck man....


Medicine Man
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12/20/2002
04:48:36
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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They also seem to forget the mistakes they had made, and the times they upset you. Ah, yes they are wonderful creatures, with a twist of selective amnesia.


robert crispin
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12/20/2002
09:37:30
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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I'm married to a Brazilian woman. So to answer your question, "Does a Brazilan woman hold a grudge?", from my perspective, my answer would be: "Is the Pope Catholic?"


Down to Earth
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12/20/2002
10:25:48
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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American Man, depends what you do to them I guess. Make sure you dont cheat thought unless you want to end up stabbed to death. But mind you if you manage to escape the explosion, she might forgive you once she calms down. Brazilian women seem to be very forgiving towards their men. I cant say the same about their "fellow" women thought so I guess that a Brazilian lesbian quarrel would be pretty bloody.

Im talking bollocks



Truth
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12/20/2002
15:20:44
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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OI DOWN TO EARTH!

THOUGHT ~ THOUGH

JOHN 14:6

JOHN 18:38


Lucas
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12/20/2002
17:46:21
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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"Mulheres brasileiras" no so diferentes de mulheres de outras nacionalidades...

Embora esse mito seja til em alguns aspectos.



Z
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12/21/2002
02:45:12
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Eu estou achando que eles desconhecem o produto nacional.


Z
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12/21/2002
02:52:04
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Citando Fernando Sabino:

"No confio em produto local, sempre que viajo levo meu whisky e minha mulher."


American Man
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12/21/2002
04:24:21
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Thanks everyone.Sounds no different than women everywhere else.I really had a good laugh reading the responses though.

By the way,everything is okay with my lady friend.I talked with her and it seems i overreacted.Everything is great.(thank God)


Jimperfection
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1/04/2003
16:39:49
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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I've met a Brazilian woman here in the US. She's illegal, having overstayed her visa. My insanity is that I want to help her stay...even if it means convincing her to marry me for the sake of remaining in the USA. Do any of you have any experience with such a situation? Can an illegal marry an american citizen & thereby avoid deportation??

Da nada...


Patinho
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1/04/2003
23:44:21
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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All I know is that the INS will be up your butt like a hemorroid. Were talking very expensive paperwork, very personal interviews, they come to see where the BOTH of you live (as in sharing closet space, same bedroom, etc...). Hell, my freinds actually married for LOVE and they almost did not get permission. Also, I think there might be some problems with the outdated visa and I am not sure, but I think there is a waiting period on the permanent visa/greencard... like 2 years. This is to made to discourage fake marriages.

Either way... I'm rooting for ya! good luck!

It is not as simple as it was in the past.


Macunaima
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1/05/2003
08:03:54
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Does the Pope shit in the woods?

But seriously, folks...

Brazilian women are pretty much like women anywhere else.

That said, it does seem to me that there is a tendency to rather emotionally indulgent behavior on the part of many, if not most, Brazilians of both sexes. Or perhaps it's anglo-americans who are emotionally repressed. In any case, it seems to me that Brazilians have a much easier time letting you know exactly how they feel, even though, 15 minutes later, they might feel completely different, even to the point of having "forgotten" how they felt earlier.

In other words, Brazilians really don't think much about whether their feelings are "justified" or not. If they want to kill you, they'll try - at least metaphorically.

Also, (and again, this is a stereotype; your mileage may vary widely) Brazilians of both sexes don't seem to have an easy time of admitting they are wrong in relationships. In fact, I've found that admitting one is wrong in a fight with a woman is the last thing you want to do, at least at first. If you screw up, she may very well want a fight and the last thing you should do is come to her with your tail between your legs.

(I should say that this unrepentant behavior is one of the things that many Brazilian women say they hate in Brazilian men, so again, depending on the individual, your mileage may vary. However, most Brazilian women, in my experience, are typically as unrepentant as the men they love to criticize. I think a humble attitude in an argument in Brazil will only bring you grief, at least at the beginning of the fight).

So I'd say that if your lady friend is typical, she'll want to scream at you. If you know you fucked up, don't scream back, BUT ALSO DON'T IMMEDIATELY LOWER YOUR HEAD AND SAY YOU'RE SORRY. Hold your ground, let her yell, try to maintain a calm "adult" attitude, and if it gets to be too much, turn around on your heel and leave before she does.

THEN come back and say you're sorry. But first send flowers to her job, etc. This way, you're not explicating what you're sorry for, see? It could just be for the fight. By this time she'll have calmed down and may be ready to forgive you. The goal is to get back to the status quo anti-bellum without anyone losing face. If you know you really fucked up, while she's pissed is not the time to admit it. Admit it when she's gone back to being happy with you and give her some token of your repentince when you do so. That will probably impress her more than immediately admitting that you screwed up.

Brazilians do not have "issues", they have opponents. Unless they are exceptional individuals, they really do not try to work out their problems. Brazilians get pissed, scream, work the emotions out of their systems and then decide if it's worth it to continue with you. If they do, all will be forgiven, if not forgotten (you can be sure that said incident will be rubbed in your face during the next fight, no matter how many times you say you're sorry). If they don't, they will quietly up and leave and that will be that.

Again, I stress that there are many, many different types of Brazilians out there. You may be dating one of the few who really has examined their emotions in depth and has worked out ways of limiting their reactions in order to solve issues. Don't bet on it though. In my experience, the description above is more typical and largely fits both men and women.


Brazilian Girl
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1/05/2003
08:05:44
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Well, I agree with the guy about forgive but dont forget.
Second, keep distance is not very wise, girls in general, not Brazilians only, want to hear an apollogy.
Depending on what you did, ewveryhting is going to be ok. Maybe to you what you've done was "no biggie" but remember that each individual feels and sees things diferently, even more when they come from different cultures and backgrounds!
Call her and say you sorry, and try to have a nice talk with her. I am sure everything is going to be ok!



Anonymous
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1/06/2003
23:26:28
Be extremely careful with the women
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Long story but i will try to make it short. Dated a brazilian that wanted to get married. After 3 months I was not ready. She said she loved me and for a while I believe she did. She was also extremely jealous.
So I took her on a trip to NYC. We were partying at a club and she claims she saw me kissing another girl. She started yelling and screaming etc etc, and I told her I was leaving, I was sick of it. I went back to the hotel at about 7am, and she went absolutely ballistic. Yelling screaming throwing things hitting me etc etc. Neighbors in the hotel heard it and called the cops. Before the cops got there she settled down and we went to sleep. She was now in the country illegally. So the cops banged on the door and I opened it. They separated us to ask what happenned. I begged the cops to not take either of us to jail, but they ended up taking me. Once in jail I found out she told the cops I tried to rape her. The cops scared her by saying both of us were going to jail, so she lied to save her own ass. After I sat in jail for 8 days and missed new YEars Eve, she admitted she lied and I was free to go.
My lesson is just be careful. YOu date someone from a 3rd world country that was raised much differently, and they have strong instincts for pure survival, and only care about themselves. Kind of like Penelope Cruz in the movie Blow.


Jimperfection
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1/07/2003
04:15:39
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Anonymous..are you still seeing her? Was this incident the straw that broke the camel's back? I'm crazy about this Brazilian mulher. One thing that sounds familiar, from your story, is she mentioned continuously fighting with her last boyfriend until it finally ended. She blamed him. One day she said to me, jokingly, that if I saw another girl she would kill me. When I remarked on the phone how funny I felt that was, she then changed it to, "I wouldn't kill you... I'd cry". Certainly, the reputation of Brazilian women among american men is that they have extreme tempers. Hopfully, the other elements of their emotional lives are just as extreme. I'm playing with fire.... ???


Macunaima
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1/07/2003
05:30:48
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Tempers.

As I mentioned above, both Brazilian men and women organize their emotions different than anglo-americans.

This has absolutely nothing to do with being "from a 3rd world country" (if she was in Australia, I kinda doubt she was a member of Brazil's poorest classes, no matter what she told you) or having "strong instincts for pure survival, and only care about themselves". That's a prejudiced reading, I'm sorry to say, one that sees the "third world" (whatever the hell that means) as sort of a homogenous mocha-flavored mass.

WEALTHY Brazilians tend to be just as emotionally extreme as poor Brazilians. College-educated Brazilians are just as emotionally extreme as those with no education at all. Brazilians of all shapes, sizes and money levels just kind of go with the flow emotionally and what comes out is what they feel. Once they stop feeling it, it's over. The story of how the one woman threw crockery around and then went to bed is typical.




Pedro
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1/07/2003
08:36:57
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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The hot-tempered latina is outdated. This was commonplace in hollywood productions from the thirties and fourties. Fashion, now, is to state that brazilians (and latinas) are sweet, docile, submissive, hausehold-oriented, patient, unstressed, BlaBlaBla... that is, always ready to serve their males and recognize his superiority. May look strange, but I assure that Ive heard this kind of thing and read it on many web sites about Brazil...

Maybe this was what happened to anonymous. When he started dating the brazilian lady, he had all this mythology in mind, but... Oh... Oh... the lady did not play the role...



Jack Dempsey
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1/07/2003
09:08:11
stereotypes
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Lighten up, Francis. Each case is different, and for you to broad-brush Anonymous' situation is as preposterous as those stereotypes you mentioned.


kevin was anonymous
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1/07/2003
23:31:20
to Jimperfection
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Well yes this definitely was the straw that broke the camels back. Of course i didnt take her back. Did i miss her after my jail ordeal? no not at all.
For about the first 6 months i was very much in love. We were inseperable. But throughout the entire year we were together some things were always the same.
1. No matter what i would never hear "I am sorry"
2. She was extremely jealous, and tried her best to turn me into a jealous person
3. When mad would say the most hurtful things imaginable, then the next day act as if nothing was said.
4. great sex
5. And yes she did use to joke around(i think she was joking) about killing me if i slept with another woman
Now I know all women may act like this. I am not saying all brazilian women are like this. But with her it was different. It was an anger in which she did not hold anything back, and did not care about how i felt, or what would happen to me. As if she would kill me right then and there, and have no remorse. And then she would never apologize after the fact. She would wake up next to me and be all sweet and cuddly.
Being stupid,young,and in love, I ignored all of the signs. She was very beautiful, and at times showed her love like no other woman ever has. But the anger and coldness that she could spew out of such a little body, I have never seen before.
So just be careful. All women get mad, and all may get jealous. I suppose all of the other american women i dated might yell at me, but I could still see in there eyes that they loved me, and wanted to be with me. The brazialian girl would unleash a fury of hate upon me over little things, and when i looked into her eyes i could tell that in those moments of rage she did not love me, or even care if I lived another 5 minutes.


George
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1/08/2003
07:25:35
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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"But with her it was different. It was an anger in which she did not hold anything back, and did not care about how i felt, or what would happen to me. As if she would kill me right then and there, and have no remorse. And then she would never apologize after the fact."

DAAAA!!! So you take her to NYC and let her part Italian blood and heritage be aroused. What did you expect to happen? Ever heard of the Mafia? Why do you think the Sopranos are so popular?

You are the cruel one. You would probably love to take a recovering AA into bars just to see him/her squirm.


American Man
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1/08/2003
10:27:33
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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You guys are scaring me!Should i sleep with one eye open?


American Man
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1/08/2003
11:34:46
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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It was funny when i finally talked with her about the "incident"She said "where have you been" I told her i thought she was angry,her response was "your my friend why would i be angry"

Thats a hell of a turn around.She wasn't happy after the incident,but i guess it wasn't as bad as originally expected.

Then she let me know that her mother was moving here so we could finally go out.(It has been difficult to go out because she has a 2 year old,and limited babysitting)She seems excited,i know i am,but now i'll be watching for all of these bad signs you have talked about.

I guess the good thing is my attraction for her has nothing to do with being her Brazillian.I like the way she looks at things,her values,and shes not too hard on the eyes.

I was talking with a friend last night and told him about my experiences so far,and coincidentally a few years ago he went through the same thing.I made the comment that i wasn't sure at what level our "friendship" was heading.He said that she would definately let me know,and there would be no doubt.I've heard that many times,BUT,i've noticed she is rather shy about some things.I've made her blush a few times (nothing off color)by complementing her or just joking around.I'm wondering if she is an exception to the rule.

Anyway,it's exciting to see where it goes









Macunaima
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1/09/2003
07:42:09
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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If I had to forge a stereotype, it wouldnt be that Brazilians are "hot tempered" or "passive". Id say that they are mercurial and emotionally indulgent.


julie
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1/10/2003
15:21:42
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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I have been dating a Brazillian man for a year and what a freky mess it has been, all the stories I hear and read seem to be true for the male population as well. Never sorry, never pays for dates if so I have to make him pay, cant let go of a past relationship even after 6 years and lies tremendously to every one. While I have your attention, what is with the signature and the three very distinctive dots behind the name. He claims all Brazillian men do this. Is this true? does any one know?


julie
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1/10/2003
15:39:10
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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I have been dating a Brazillian man for a year and what a freky mess it has been, all the stories I hear and read seem to be true for the male population as well. Never sorry, never pays for dates if so I have to make him pay, cant let go of a past relationship even after 6 years and lies tremendously to every one. While I have your attention, what is with the signature and the three very distinctive dots behind the name. He claims all Brazillian men do this. Is this true? does any one know?


Pedro
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1/11/2003
07:51:08
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Three dots? Making a triangle? Maybe he is a masson.

For your information: when I date a girlfriend, I usually pay one half and she pays the second half (equal rights!) but many brazilian women still expect their boyfriends to pay full, and many brazilian men still do it.




julie
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1/13/2003
08:23:43
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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What is a Masson? Thank you for your help. I accept him the way he is.

Julie


BRent
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1/13/2003
12:06:03
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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I think he meant "Mason," as in "Freemason," as in member
of a secret society.


Pedro
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1/13/2003
12:24:25
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Thats right! mason = freemason


julie
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1/13/2003
13:00:17
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Do you know of any secret societies that I should be aware of with my family.
Your help is appreciated.
Julie


Anonymous
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1/17/2003
11:05:18
expired visa and marriage
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The US currently allows you to pay a fine to adjust here in the US but I do not recommend it. Traditionally marrying here and changing status can be a bit of a mess and time consuming as our local INS offices are filled with large quanities of anygry, incompetent people. It only takes about 23-27 days however to do it out of the country and you do not have to do it in your home country. For an example you and her can go to New Zealand and apply at the US consulate after you are married. You will porbably only have to go in for 1 interview and then could return to the US, she will have to be available for the whole process, again usually only 23-27 days. Applications are available online or can be mailed to you. She will have to have a medical examination from a consulate approved Dr. and you will have to supply the last 5 years of tax information to prove that you can support her. I believe that the current amount of yearly income is about 18,000 but I may be wrong as I haven't looked lately. If you do not make enough then you can request an affidavit of support from friend or relative that states that they will be financially responsible for her. It is actually pretty quick and easy. Tax information can be obtained by going to your local IRS and requesting each year for which there is a 5 dollar per year charge. They print out minimal information which is acceptable for consular pruposes and takes all of about 5 minutes once you get to the desk. The application, looks daunting but it is not and most consular officials are nice believe it or not.


Jimperfection
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1/17/2003
14:56:49
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Anonymouns, I appreciate the response but it brings another question to mind. How does she get out of the US for the "marriage" overseas if her visa is expired? They'll only allow her to be shipped back to Brazil, as I've been told, anyway. Any thoughts or experience?

Thanks!!


Anonymous
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1/18/2003
09:55:32
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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You can get married anywhere including the US. I recommend that you do the paperwork outside of the US as it decreases the hassle. How long has she overstayed her visa and what type of visa did she come in on. Overstaying a visa does not disqualify someone from residency. For example I had a friend who won the visa lottery, had worked illegally in the US for 7 years, paid his taxes every year, went home when he won the lottery and adjusted his status there with the consulate fully aware that he had been working illegally. The type of visa is important and what is the work situation? Also had another friend who was in on a visa waver and she over stayed, got caught and was deperted for what should have been a 5 year mandatory but was able to get cleared by the consulate. I do expect things to get a little tougher with all the whoorah going on right now but not unreasonable. Each consulate works under the auspices of the bureau of consular affairs and not immigration and each consulate can make their own policies while following general policies of US law. It is also good to know the cultural attitude of the country that you are going to be in at the time for processing. For example folks in one Latin country I know that work at the consulate make it hard for their countymen to obtain what they what out of, what I have been told, a type of jealousy. In another country I know their fellow countrymen do all that thy can to assit. I generally find that US personnel at consulates make things a wee bit more difficult like it is their futy to keep folks out. Current problem consulates this year have been Vancouver, London and Sydney while the good ones have been Auckland, San Jose, Costa Rica. Economis have an impact. As the political climate right now in Brasil is positive it will make residency easier while Argentina is more difficult and Colombia is down right impossible. More info on the type of visa, how long it was good for and when it expired will help greatly to give you a better answer.


Anonymous
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1/18/2003
10:00:49
Expired visa
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See above message as I forgot to change the title and 'scuse the typing but I know you will get the flavor of my message just the same.


jimperfection
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1/18/2003
10:17:22
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Anonymous; she came here on a tourist visa, with no intention of going back. Her mother had been here for 7 yrs before going back & her brother has been here nearly a decade. Her tourist visa expired about 6 months ago. She's working off the books for someone. Do you know if the police stop her for say, traffic violations or some misdemeanor offense, if they check legal status? Would they turn her over to INS if she were arrested by some freak circumstance?
Lastly, I just discovered that her passport has also expired. Was good for 10 yrs, she said, but she didn't renew it & now she's illegal. Too big a problem?
Thanks!!


Anonymous
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1/19/2003
07:24:47
visa info
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Technically the police are not supposed to address the issue of immigration as it is a form of discrimination. For example they would not ask a white person to prove their legal status, so it would not be appropriate to ask anyone of another ethnic background and this includes language. Just because you have an accent doesn't mean you are not legal. Does she have a driver's licence (legal)? That is all that is required by law plus insurance and I highly recommend that she take care of at least the minimum of that so no one will blink if she gets stopped. Just for your information she can also recieve medical if she needs it. The passport thing is not a problem. Just have her contact her local Braziliam consulate and tell them that her passport expired.Hell you can even tell em you list if if it makes you feel better, but I have yet to see an expired passport be a problem. It does tell me that she probably has been here more than 6 months as you are required to have a passport good for 6 months past the expiration of your visa to enter the US. They will renew it by mail and in most countries consulates there is little if no charge. Next.. The tourist visa. I will have to assume that she came in on a B1-B2 visa and probably a multiple entry one. She would have gone to the US consulate to obtain this as Brasilenos aren't eligible for a waver. She should have in her passport a white I94 arrival departure record which is a card. There are several avenues that we can go if this is the case. Let me know and we will take it from there. Too bad she didn't take care of it 6 months ago. If she has the type of visa that I think she has she could have extended it by mail here for 140 bucks and no hassle. Hmm. Okay let me know and then we will head to the next step.


Mariana Oliveira
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1/31/2003
11:16:17
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Well I'm a brazillian from CT if some one wants to
try the wild world of brazzilian woman call me
203 778 6858 I'm illegal and looking for to married an american guy so I can have my own grenn card and get to go to Brasil visit my family there.
Please I need a guy that has patiante and money
call -me as soon is possible


Mariana Oliveira
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1/31/2003
11:16:25
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Well I'm a brazillian from CT if some one wants to
try the wild world of brazzilian woman call me
203 778 6858 I'm illegal and looking for to married an american guy so I can have my own grenn card and get to go to Brasil visit my family there.
Please I need a guy that has patiante and money
call -me as soon is possible


Mariana Oliveira
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1/31/2003
11:16:36
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Well I'm a brazillian from CT if some one wants to
try the wild world of brazzilian woman call me
203 778 6858 I'm illegal and looking for to married an american guy so I can have my own grenn card and get to go to Brasil visit my family there.
Please I need a guy that has patiante and money
call -me as soon is possible


Macunaima
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1/31/2003
14:20:43
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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ROFL!

Vai roar ostra em outra praia, minha filha!


MARIANA
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2/01/2003
05:41:10
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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INVEJA MATA MINHA FILHA


MARIANA
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2/01/2003
05:44:39
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Message:
Well I'm a brazillian from CT if some one wants to
try the wild world of brazzilian woman call me
203 778 6858 I'm illegal and looking for to married an american guy so I can have my own grenn card and get to go to Brasil visit my family there.
Please I need a guy that has patiante and money
call -me as soon is possible, IF YOU ARE THE GUY
WITH MONEY ONLY PLEASE


Quayle
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2/01/2003
08:25:51
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
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Mariana, post your picture up here and I'll think about it.


Jimperfection
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2/01/2003
12:50:27
RE: Expired Visa - Anonymous
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She and I talked a bit a week ago Friday. She's so upset about the whole situation that going back to Brazil before the end of the year is being seriously considered. Let me get all the particulars & give you the low down. My "numera uma mulher" is kind of paranoid about giving all the details...like I'd turn her in or something!! Let me know you're still around!! I appreciate the assistance..
Thanks !!


Anonymous
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2/03/2003
20:56:05
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
IP: Logged

Message:
I am still checking in, just a little full up with work so a little sporadic on coming to this site. Yes I can understand the paranoia. I don't mind helping folks out now and then. I do immigration work for companies bringing in staff from overseas and have found that many people just need a little information and that most folks that need the info can't afford to obtain it or are afraid to try believing someone may give them up.. So... every so often I run into someone and try to be nice. I don't give advice one way or another or recommend illegal behaviors, I just ry to put out the facts as I know them. What you do is your own business.


Anonymous
Guest


2/04/2003
16:57:59
RE: Do Brazillian women hold grudges?
IP: Logged

Message:
Message:
Message:
Well I'm a brazillian from CT if some one wants to
try the wild world of brazzilian woman call me
203 778 6858 I'm illegal and looking for to married an american guy so I can have my own grenn card and get to go to Brasil visit my family there.
Please I need a guy that has patiante and money
call -me as soon is possible, IF YOU ARE THE GUY
WITH MONEY ONLY PLEASE



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